Feingold says Cheney is wrong: ‘Nothing I have seen’ in the CIA memos proves torture was necessary.
Feingold says Cheney is wrong: ‘Nothing I have seen’ in the CIA memos proves torture was necessary.
During his weeks-long media tour defending torture, Vice President Dick Cheney has repeatedly pointed to two CIA memos that he says “showed the success of the effort.” During a Senate Judiciary subcommittee hearing today, Sen. Russ Feingold (D-WI) declared that nothing in those memos suggests that torture was the most effective way to gain information:
Nothing I have seen — including the two documents to which former Vice President Cheney has repeatedly referred — indicates that the torture techniques authorized by the last administration were necessary, or that they were the best way to get information out of detainees. The former vice president is misleading the American people when he says otherwise.
Watch it:
Click here to read ThinkProgress’s extensive report on why Bush’s “enhanced interrogation” program failed.
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Russ Feingold is what a leader in the Senate looks like.
May 13th, 2009 at 11:16 am.
Senator Feingold,
US Law, Geneva Conventions, US Army Field Manual, and other suppressed legal advisers agree. Torture is never acceptable, regardless of the results. It is never acceptable.
However Senator, the question still remains…
… What are you going to do about it, except bloviate?
I know you’re good, but really, this is the time to DO good.
.
May 13th, 2009 at 11:18 amNot necessary, illegal, inhumane and WAR CRIMES.
Thanks to Cheney/Bush, The United States of America has been reduced to the level of Cambodia under Pol Pot, Iraq under Saddam Hussein, and the Soviet Union under Stalin in the eyes of the world.
Disgusting!
May 13th, 2009 at 11:18 amHow soon before the reichwing attacks begin on Senator Feingold?
May 13th, 2009 at 11:19 amThe former vice president is misleading the American people when he says anything.
There. Fixed it for you, Darth.
May 13th, 2009 at 11:24 amWhen I hear Cheney make a declaration that memos exist showing how effective torture is, I’m reminded of Joe McCarthy waving around a scrap of paper and proclaiming, “I have a list of known Communists!”.
Let’s see these memos. Put up or shut up.
May 13th, 2009 at 11:25 amWhat can we do to have more Russ Feingolds in government ?
May 13th, 2009 at 11:27 am.
Dear Think Progress,
Please rethink calling TORTURE, “enhanced interrogation”.
By continuing to do so, you are legitimizing the concept that a rose by other names is not a rose.
When this “enhanced interrogation” crossed the lines into TORTURE, and several people died because of it’s techniques, it no longer was interrogation but instead, MURDER. Yet, by continuing to call it “enhanced interrogation” you not only are positioning your talking points to be in alignment WITH that of the Bush/Cheney crew/apologists you also, by proxy, are failing to recognize that these techniques, as described by the US Lawyers Guild, Human Rights Commission, and the ICRC as TORTURE, can produce death, not just simulate it.
Remember, these “enhanced interrogation” techniques also included crushing a boys testicles, placing him into a box with stinging insects and forced rape.
Please, Think Progress. Call war crimes what they are.
.
May 13th, 2009 at 11:28 amFinally someone is saying dc is wrong, it’s about time. No, it’s long overdue.
May 13th, 2009 at 11:30 amAll the memos need to be declassified and released, without redactions, to the American public. And that includes the two written by Steve Bradbury in 2006 and 2007, which basically attempted to rationalize reinstituting the torture program.
May 13th, 2009 at 11:32 am.
Q U E S T I O N:
Did the USA charge and successfully try and convict Japanese service members for “enhanced interrogation” techniques?
Did the USA charge and successfully try and convict it’s own US Service men for acts of “enhanced interrogation” techniques?
Or was Senator John McCain and other US Servicemembers held by the North Vietnamese and forced to confess false stories through “enhanced interrogation” techniques?
.
May 13th, 2009 at 11:33 amThe former vice president is misleading the American people when he says otherwise.
May 13th, 2009 at 11:34 am*******************************************************
That’s what the torture was for in the first place . Attain bogus information in exchange for making the pain go away and then use that information to place American citizens in harms way in order to pursue already decided foreign policy objectives as spelled out the PNAC pre 911 .
Oh what do you know? Cheney is a Liar shocker
May 13th, 2009 at 11:35 am.
Can we call torture, “Cuddly fluffy kitten cuddle time” instead?
.
May 13th, 2009 at 11:35 amLet’s just say torture was like Viagra for Cheney, and therefore, was necessary as far as he was concerned.
May 13th, 2009 at 11:36 amNever mind all that, I really want to know what conservativecuttingandpastingforprogress pretends he thinks about all this.
May 13th, 2009 at 11:36 amCOProgressive Says:
Thanks to Cheney/Bush, The United States of America has been reduced to the level of Cambodia under Pol Pot, Iraq under Saddam Hussein, and the Soviet Union under Stalin in the eyes of the world.
____________
You forgot the nazi, Imperial Japanese, and the Inquisition in there.
No doubt, a simple oversight on your part, and not intentional.
May 13th, 2009 at 11:38 amRead all about it ,
May 13th, 2009 at 11:38 amhttp://www.informationclearinghouse.info/pdf/RebuildingAmericasDefenses.pdf
When Philip Zelikow, the former counselor to Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, testifies before a Senate Judiciary subcommittee Wednesday about controversial legal opinions issued by the Bush-era Justice Department, he’ll be wading into a political maelstrom. Former Bush administration and CIA officials have accused Congressional Democrats of hypocrisy for calling for investigations of the interrogations policies, saying that some, including now House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, were briefed on the techniques employed and approved them.
Zelikow, who revealed last month on ForeignPolicy.com that the Bush White House tried to destroy all copies of a 2006 memo he wrote opposing the policies, has generally sought to avoid the political spectacle, but describes the program as a collective failure. He is calling for an independent commission to investigate what happened.
“I think the record will show as CIA wants it to be known that quite a number of people from both parties were aware of this program, and endorsed it over a period of years,” Zelikow told The Cable on the eve of his still-embargoed testimony (.pdf) Tuesday. “Goodness knows, this was a problem for the people inside” like himself “who objected to the program. We were constantly told, we briefed XYZ and they had no problem with that.”
http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2009/05/12/zelikow_advocates_independent_investigation_into_torture_policies
May 13th, 2009 at 11:39 amFirst write the confession than do the crime .
May 13th, 2009 at 11:40 amThey consistently miss the point.
Effective or not effective – who cares? That isn’t the point, Senator. Though I agree with his stance that it was unnecessary, and I would go further and state that not only was it unproductive, it is highly likely that it was, in fact, counterproductiv. All of that is entirely irrelevant, as torture (stop calling it “enhanced interrogation” – don’t church it up, be intellectually honest with yourself and call a spade a spade) is illegal, immoral, and counter to the very foundation of American ideals – equal treatment under the law.
Speaking of equal treatment under the law – EVERYONE who was involved with torture, no matter how high up or low down the ladder, regardless of party affiliation, should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law, convicted if evidence bears out their responsibility, and punished appropriately. THEN the world court should get a go at them. These aren’t just American laws that were broken, they are international laws, and the world court needs to get their pound of flesh, too. Such is the consequence of extreme inhumanity and complete disregard for decency and legality.
May 13th, 2009 at 11:41 amHere here Smidget! When did the CIA become an entity unto itself unbeholden to US and international law? This rat’s nest need to be fumigated.
May 13th, 2009 at 11:47 am5th Estate Says:
Never mind all that, I really want to know what conservativecuttingandpastingforprogress pretends he thinks about all this.
ConservativePlagiarizingForIdiocy is looking for an appropriate response to
May 13th, 2009 at 11:50 amstealplagiarizepost now…misscoleopteramolly Says:
When I hear Cheney make a declaration that memos exist showing how effective torture is, I’m reminded of Joe McCarthy waving around a scrap of paper and proclaiming, “I have a list of known Communists!”.
Is this the same misscoleopteramolly that only yesterday said she would do whatever it took to free her hypothetical child from a kidnapper?
Goodness sakes, that was a fast turnaround.
May 13th, 2009 at 11:51 amPappy bush was in the CIA, right.?…Just a memory or is he still incharge?..Blessings
May 13th, 2009 at 11:52 amI love you, Russ Feingold!
May 13th, 2009 at 11:52 amNo surprise here. Cheney would have had these memo’s released months ago if it helped his case. Cheney is just planting the seed in the American people that torture did keep us safe and there are memo’s to prove it. Once the truth gets out I wouldn’t doubt if Cheney starts making claims that the memo’s that prove his case were purposely destroyed by the democrats.
May 13th, 2009 at 11:54 amI find it much more exhilarating when I just sit around and wait for stuff to blow up and when it does its like watching a scary movie, I just love to have the crap scared out of me. I am sure our soldiers would enjoy the same experience. And its just like a video game when the bad guys jump out from behind rocks and bushes and stuff and you didn’t know that they were there, great fun for all.
May 13th, 2009 at 11:54 amPerhaps the long arm of the bush clan will use methods to persuade cheney and his enablers to find a quiet island or better yet a dirt bath. Jebbie’s career was dented by Georgie but cheney’s mouth could derail all bushies for generations.
May 13th, 2009 at 11:54 amSlappyBastinado Says:
——————————————————————————–
I find it much more exhilarating when I just sit around and wait for stuff to blow up and when it does its like watching a scary movie,
But weren’t you in favor of the Iraq invasion? We had to make sure those non-existent weapons didn’t fall into the wrong hands!
May 13th, 2009 at 11:55 amAside from lovin’ torture where was cheney when the memo about Osama attacking us by air ? Didn’t hear much about that did we ? Thanks for the warning bush/cheney.
May 13th, 2009 at 11:56 amnicely done, smidget.
Furthermore we shouldn’t lose sight of a few other facts:
The Bush administration (Bush, Cheney, Rice, etc) TOLD the CIA to torture BEFORE they asked Yoo, Bybee et cetera to justify it after the fact.
They waited for six months before telling anyone in congress ANYTHING about how they were treating their captives.
They also KIDNAPPED people in other countries and took them to foreign facilities specifically to be tortured.
May 13th, 2009 at 11:56 amAfter listening to the Senator’s remarks, I don’t the impression he was churching up at all. He stated very clearly these actions were an abuse by the previous administration and contrary to American laws and values. Even in the posted quote section he uses the word torture. And he is calling for the rest of the documents to be declassified and released.
Seems to be one of the clearest statements from any member of Congress on this issue and it was made without rhetoric.
I say, good job Senator. Keep it coming.
May 13th, 2009 at 11:56 amQuestion: Did President Clinton have to resort to torture, rendition, illegal surveillance or perpetual war on terrorism to keep our country safe for 7 years after the first WTC attack?
Answer: NO! Why doesn’t anyone point this little fact out to Cheney when he makes his delusional claims that torture kept our country safe after 9/11?
May 13th, 2009 at 11:57 am#4
Lora Says:
How soon before the reichwing attacks begin on Senator Feingold?
Been happening for years. Feingold is a living example that you can take a non looney, honest, reformer position and still keep your job. Check out some of the other things he has done.
May 13th, 2009 at 11:59 amLiving things rejoice
May 13th, 2009 at 12:00 pmBanish Dicks to Clown Island
Earth is in balance
texaslady Says:
Aside from lovin’ torture where was cheney when the memo about Osama attacking us by air ? Didn’t hear much about that did we ? Thanks for the warning bush/cheney.
May 13th, 2009 at 12:00 pm“““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““`
Don’t forget that before 9/11 the Bush administration gave an order to the FBI to stop investigating Bin Laden and any member of his family. Now why would the Bush administration do that???
Senator Feingold, this will have the same non-outcome as Dennis Kucinich’s articles of impeachment.
Fixed Noise will call you a fascist, commie loving pinko.
Rush Lardass will question your patriotism.
Dick Cheney will claim you’re threatening our freedoms.
Then the news cycle will dump your story.
Mr. Senator, how about an ACTION plan? You know, actually initiating an investigation that doesn’t include former Bushlickers deciding that the fallout from the truth isn’t worth the time?—-
May 13th, 2009 at 12:01 pmIf cheney were a citizen he would probably be locked up in an mental institution. Running around and accusing this President of putting the country in danger. But lies to invade and kill our military for no reason is acceptable ?
This sub-human needs to be off the streets and given some serious meds.
May 13th, 2009 at 12:02 pmyeah #37 is right. If there were more senators like him it wouldnt be so hard. Unfortunately, he has to do more than just dissent to make real changes.
May 13th, 2009 at 12:03 pmvia C&L:
Below are a series of excerpts concerning the use of torture. See if you can guess the speaker of each.
http://obsidianwings.blogs.com/obsidian_wings/2009/05/by-eric-martin–what-with-all-the-recent-brow-furrowing-chin-scratching-and-contrarian-preeningset-in-motion-bythe-suddenly.html
May 13th, 2009 at 12:04 pmI recently recall Senator McCain claiming that if we held an investigation on the Bush administration in regards to torture it would set a dangerous precedent for future Presidents.
No Senator McCain, you are wrong and are a phucking moron! Not investigating and punishing those who pushed for torture would set a dangerous precedent for Presidents to use torture in the future knowing they can get away with it.
May 13th, 2009 at 12:06 pmI feel much safer in battle if I know what to expect on the battle field. I don’t like being lead into the unknown if it is not necessary and that can be accomplished with good intel gathered from many sources including information obtained from the captured enemy combatants. The more information I have the safer I feel and am. I know if I am captured by my enemy what to expect, they have shown their interrogation methods to the world via the Internet and from bridges.
May 13th, 2009 at 12:07 pmWayne Says: “ConservativePlagiarizingForIdiocy is looking for an appropriate response to steal plagiarize post now…”
Actually Wayne, as I’ve often said before, primarily, this is a national security issue and personally, I’m not comfortable leaving national security in the hands of the ACLU
, but that’s just my copyrighted personal opinion that I came up with all by myself that no on else as ever said and to which I own all rights in perpetuity (sarc/).
Actually I think he’s trying to come up with a new name, and or plotting some revenge.
Come to think of it maybe he is scouring everything I’ve ever written for plagiarism—that should keep him busy for a while.
Or he’s just given up—that would be the best outcome of all.
May 13th, 2009 at 12:09 pmBar…..Iraq was not about weapons…..it is and always has been about a stable world oil market….I am not going to take the time to explain how all of the worlds oil is tied together so you can buy a gallon of gas for $2.19 and not $9.21.
May 13th, 2009 at 12:12 pmI agree! Feingold is the man! He has also question the Obama administration about our strategy and/or mission in Afghanistan. Russ, like Dennis K are to politicians who don’t walk lockstep with the party.
Clue to Obama: Stop listening to your handlers and open up a history book and read the history on countries who have had war with Afghanistan or tried to occupy the country with their military and what the end results were for that country.
May 13th, 2009 at 12:15 pmto = two
May 13th, 2009 at 12:16 pmwow slappy, you must be a real pussy
why so easily frightened?
why do you think America is so weak that it has to resort to torture and war to protect itself from ragtag terrorist criminals?
May 13th, 2009 at 12:16 pmSlappyBastinado Says:
I feel much safer in battle if I know what to expect on the battle field. I don’t like being lead into the unknown if it is not necessary and that can be accomplished with good intel gathered from many sources including information obtained from the captured enemy combatants.
May 13th, 2009 at 12:07 pm
____________
And as many former FBI and military interrogators have pointed out in the last year or so, you can’t get that information from captured enemy combatants by torturing them
May 13th, 2009 at 12:16 pm‘Nothing I have seen’ in the CIA memos proves torture was necessary.
Well, that would certainly explain why no one else in the Bush Admin seems to be talking about Cheney’s phantom memo.
May 13th, 2009 at 12:16 pmcowards think torture works because it would work on a coward
May 13th, 2009 at 12:18 pmHas Sean Hannity back up his words yet and agreed to be waterboarded for charity? COWARD!
May 13th, 2009 at 12:19 pmRantingTommy Says:
cowards think torture works because it would work on a coward
May 13th, 2009 at 12:21 pm“““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““`
Fixed your comment. The truth is much better in bold!
Bush family and the Bin Ladens go way back, bailing out georgies bad oil ventures, funding new ones, investing in the Carlyle Group, (which was first to the American bailout in 2008) Always wondered how much the Saudi’s would do for the bushies.
May 13th, 2009 at 12:22 pmthanx, unc
May 13th, 2009 at 12:23 pmMax Anux junius says @ 2
“I know you’re good, but really, this is the time to DO good.”
I’m being a little protective here because I proudly call Russ my Senator. But the last major move Russ made was to censure Bush over wiretapping. His fellow democrats left him on the podium talking to himself and c-span cameras. (I watched the whole thing.) Where was YOUR senator on that one Max?
Russ can only lead. It’s up to YOUR senators to follow.
May 13th, 2009 at 12:24 pmUncle Fester Lurks Says:
Has Sean Hannity back up his words yet and agreed to be waterboarded for charity? COWARD!
Hannity is a coward. So is Cheney.
How about a ‘tag team’ waterboard event for charity? Hannity can waterboard Cheney. If Cheney survives, he can do the same to Hannity.
Put it on ppv & we can reduce the National debt in one hour!
May 13th, 2009 at 12:25 pmOle Lindsey Graham just pulled the ticking time bomb scenario out of his ass on cspan3. I have the feeling we’ll be seeing some more clips soon.
It is truly disgusting watching him wriggle around the hearing.
May 13th, 2009 at 12:27 pmcheney is not only wrong, as always, he’s lying, as always.
May 13th, 2009 at 12:40 pmFeingold’s great, but I’m afraid he too is falling into the trap of thinking torture’s legality has something to do with the results it produces. Rounding up all conservatives in a giant pigpen and killing them would sure solve alot of problems, but that doesn’t mean it should be done.
May 13th, 2009 at 12:53 pmVideo of testimony today by Ali Soufan on the interrogation of of Abu Zubaydah at this link.
May 13th, 2009 at 12:55 pm@Hoodathunktick
My “church it up” remark was to anyone who refuses to call it torture. Feingold is on the right track, but he needs to realize that arguing against the effectiveness is still missing the point entirely. Murder is effective too, if your goal is to get someone out of your life, but that doesn’t make it moral or legal.
May 13th, 2009 at 12:56 pmsmidget Says @ 62 and KaneJeeves Says @ 60
Cheney has been spewing his nonsense about necessity and the “ticking bomb” scenario all over the MSM. Russ is only refuting his squabble and that is what the topic is. Russ has often expressed his knowledge of torture (enhanced interrogation) being illegal. He advocates a special prosecutor to look into the matter.
May 13th, 2009 at 1:10 pmI agree with many of the opinions here… but there’s a bigger agenda that Cheney is advancing – it is the breaking of America to accept world government. More about it on my blog here:
Cheney wants it all ways
May 13th, 2009 at 3:17 pmSlappy is back. Still pathetic still begging for our pity. Still trying to escape the worthlessness of his life. You are a punk Slappy. You KNOW you are too stupid to contribute so you just beg us to pity you. You are far too stupid to be clever you must KNOW that by now. So its all about begging all the time. Dont you ever wish you had some self respect dont you wish you werent so pathetic and ignorant? Dont you just ever break down and cry at how unalterably stupid and pathetic you are?
May 13th, 2009 at 4:35 pmA crime is never ‘necessary! A War Crime is never ‘justifiable! A War Crime not ‘prosecuted’ a shame, an embarrassment and also a ‘crime’!
May 13th, 2009 at 9:04 pmI was thinking about this question of whether harsh tactics get you information. Let’s say you’re a bad guy and have information (we can consider the opposite case — that you have no information, below). They do mean things to you like play Britney Spears over and over, keeping you up all night with the lights on. Wouldn’t you give up some information just to shut her up?
Or in more seriousness, isn’t it more likely that you’d give up the information? And of course, that’s the point here. We’re trying to get information.
Let’s say instead of Britney they play Mozart. Is that torture? This isn’t black and white.
OK now the converse, you have no information. Well, make something up.
May 14th, 2009 at 4:54 pm