Gibbs: ‘Nothing Is Added’ By The Release Of The ‘Sensationalistic’ Photos
Gibbs: ‘Nothing Is Added’ By The Release Of The ‘Sensationalistic’ Photos
In today’s White House press briefing, Press Secretary Robert Gibbs was bombarded by questions from reporters about the Obama administration’s decision not to release dozens of photos showing the abuse of detainees by U.S. military personnel. Gibbs argued that releasing the photos would “provide a disincentive for detainee abuse investigation”; people would be afraid to take the photos if they knew they were going to be released. He called the release of the photos “sensationalistic”:
GIBBS: The disincentive is in the notion that every time one of these photos is taken, that it’s going to be released — that nothing is added by the release of the photo, right? The existence of the investigation is not increased because of the release of the photo. It’s just to provide, in some ways, a sensationalistic portion of that investigation. [...]
But the — I think if every time somebody took a picture of detainee abuse, if every time that — if any time any of those pictures were mandatorily going to be necessarily released, despite the fact that they were being investigated, I think that would provide a disincentive to take those pictures and investigate.
Watch it:
The real disincentive caused from the release of the photos is that it will hopefully caution U.S. officials from ever engaging in torture again. As the ACLU’s Amrit Singh explained, the photographs are “critical for helping the public understand the scope and scale of prisoner abuse as well as for holding senior officials accountable for authorizing or permitting such abuse.”
On April 23, the Justice Department said that it would release the 44 photos as part of a lawsuit brought by the ACLU. At the press briefing the next day, Gibbs made clear that the Obama administration believed it was legally bound to take this action:
GIBBS: The Second Circuit Court ruled in December of 2008 that the photos had to be released. The previous administration lost a court case on that. The Department of Justice decided based on the ruling that it was hopeless to appeal, and a mandate ordering the release of those photos came Monday. And the administration, the Pentagon, and the court entered into an agreement to release those photos.
Additionally, Obama reportedly decided not to release the photos because he was concerned that it would put U.S. troops serving in Iraq and Afghanistan in danger of reprisal. But in April, a Pentagon spokesman told the New York Times that while officials were “still concerned that release of the pictures could make the military’s mission more difficult, that consideration was less pressing now, given that Iraq is more stable than it was two or three years ago.”
Transcript:
GIBBS: I think they have. But I would also say the president believes a couple of other things. Understand that the existence of these investigations are — I don’t know the exact address, but they’re on the DOD Web site. The president believes that the release of these photos will also provide a disincentive for detainee abuse investigation.
The photos don’t denote the existence of the investigations. They’re simply part of the potential evidence in the cases that have been finished since 2004.
But if in each of these instances somebody looking into detainee abuse takes evidentiary photos in a case that’s — that’s eventually concluded, that this could provide a tremendous disincentive to take those photos and investigate that abuse.
I would also add, lastly —
QUESTION: Try — try that once again. I don’t follow you. What’s the — where’s the disincentive?
GIBBS: The disincentive is in the notion that every time one of these photos is taken, that it’s going to be released — that nothing is added by the release of the photo, right? The existence of the investigation is not increased because of the release of the photo. It’s just to provide, in some ways, a sensationalistic portion of that investigation.
These are all investigations that were undertaken by the Pentagon and have been concluded. But the — I think if every time somebody took a picture of detainee abuse, if every time that — if any time any of those pictures were mandatorily going to be necessarily released, despite the fact that they were being investigated, I think that would provide a disincentive to take those pictures and investigate.
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But something has been lost by them not being released. Like the support of the BASE THAT GOT YOU GUYS ELECTED.
May 13th, 2009 at 3:21 pm.
A photo says a thousand words…
… But grave sites of innocent victims are forever!
BRING OUR TROOPS HOME!
END THE ILLEGAL WARS!
.
May 13th, 2009 at 3:22 pmIs the White House willing to go on record to state that all of the instances of abuse documented in the photographs have been investigated and prosecuted? Can they provide independent verification of that fact?
May 13th, 2009 at 3:23 pmSuch Bull$hit…this sounds like Bushco logic, and it’s wrong.
May 13th, 2009 at 3:23 pmHorseshit! Horseshit! Horseshit!
May 13th, 2009 at 3:24 pmWe are a nation which tortures suspects and then attempts to hide the proof. What is gained by extending the charade? These photos will come out. Maybe it is best to get them all out now, rather than wait for the eventual trickle to come.
Trolls: Are you happy the USA is a torture nation – just like Lybia and Syria? Puts us in some dubious company.
May 13th, 2009 at 3:25 pmI trust the photos will still be used as evidence by the DOJ?
May 13th, 2009 at 3:26 pmActually, I agree with him on this – provided that they be allowable as evidence in any subsequent trials.
May 13th, 2009 at 3:28 pmNow Obama can kiss my arse.
May 13th, 2009 at 3:28 pmWimps. But for a minute, how bad could they be? But still, let’s see what Cheney and Bush have wrought. I need a drink.
May 13th, 2009 at 3:30 pmYou can wait, but they will come out at Cheney’s trial anyway.
May 13th, 2009 at 3:31 pmOh, and if I see another news bit about that stupid Miss California, I’ll scream!
May 13th, 2009 at 3:31 pmI’m sorry, but ‘that’ can be used for any number of coverups. As a reason it is specious, at best.
Bush Regimesque.
May 13th, 2009 at 3:34 pmObama broke his word.
The lawyer pushing for the release of photographs showing the harsh treatment of suspected terrorist detainees said President Barack Obama was backtracking on his word and commitment to transparency by reversing course and objecting to the release of those photos.
Jameel Jaffer, a chief litigator for the American Civil Liberties Union National Security Project, described Obama’s reversal as “very disappointing” during an interview with Fox News. San Stein at HuffPost
Very disappointing is a distinct UNDERSTATEMENT! It makes me LIVID!
May 13th, 2009 at 3:35 pmpersaonally, i think “bought to you courtesy of the GOP” should be photoshopped at the bottom of each of these torture pics to be printed in every major publication just before an election. let the masses know the true face of the goopers
May 13th, 2009 at 3:35 pmI’ll have whatever you’re smoking. :=)
May 13th, 2009 at 3:37 pmCome on Obama. Bush himself wanted war criminals prosecuted:
May 13th, 2009 at 3:37 pmhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyzty-UN3Yg
Nothing to be added, except maybe, following the law. Violation of a court order anyone?
May 13th, 2009 at 3:39 pmWell now Obama’s administration has no choice but to prosecute the Bush administration for illegal torture.
If the pictures are too awful for the public to see AND the release of them would dissuade investigation then it follows that since they’re not releasing the picutres, that they will be investigating and, from the sounds of the pictures, prosecuting.
But Cheney’s already basically thrown Bush under the bus saying that it was a presidential-level decision that authorized it.
May 13th, 2009 at 3:39 pmI don’t want to see anything so horrific it made Donald Rumsfeld sick. Send the pictures to The Hague along with a couple dozen of the top criminals from the Bush administration.
May 13th, 2009 at 3:39 pmWhatever the consequences of releasing the photos, we as a nation deserve what we get. WE DID THE CRIME. How many dead Iraqis? How many tortured souls? And how many traumatized Americans living with what was done? Enough is enough.
May 13th, 2009 at 3:41 pmshayne@21, you’re 100% correct. at the end of world war 2, the army trotted average germans into the concentration camps so they could see up close and personal the crimes committed by their government in their name. what’s good for the goose…
May 13th, 2009 at 3:43 pm… while officials were “still concerned that release of the pictures could make the military’s mission more difficult, that consideration was less pressing now, given that Iraq is more stable than it was two or three years ago.”
what’s iraq got to do with it? … rather, JUST iraq…
it’s not like we don’t have troops spread all over the crazy world… …
there’s no reason to put the photos out until the trials begin…
it’s enough to know there is evidence, at this point.
May 13th, 2009 at 3:45 pmhey, release the photos already! Are they from Abu Ghraib? Individual interrogations that may or may not have saved thousands of lives? I need more rage dammit, because the rage I feel from invading Iraq has not subsided, so let’s pile it on, in fact resubmit all the photos from Abu Ghraib, because that wasn’t enough. I’m with Obama on this, we know they were tortured, collectively we know Cheney and Bush should be in front of a committee answering questions and then some. We also know they rewrote laws to serve their ends, that is rage enough, but explain to me why the nation needs to see 44 more photos?
May 13th, 2009 at 3:46 pmWhat part of “court order” is not being understood here…?
May 13th, 2009 at 3:48 pmJust how low will the government go you ask ?
May 13th, 2009 at 3:49 pmAttempting to justify war crimes has to be getting close to the bottom of the barrell and if it wasn’t so sick it would be funny.
They sure has hell protect their own.
so much for the rule of law…everybody is upset by this really needs to send a small donation to the ACLU today so that they can continue this fight.
May 13th, 2009 at 3:52 pm…what’s done in D.C. STAYS in D.C…
May 13th, 2009 at 3:54 pmI posted this on the “Obama reverses…” thread ( #133 there)
So Obama is objecting to a court order on the grounds that releasing the photos could expose US troops to further danger.
1) We have learned that knowledge of the Bush administration instigated torture has served as a tool for recruitment and revenge by Iraqis and others.
2) If the Bush administration hadn’t tortured in the first place, this would not be an issue.
3) The Obmam administration;s concern here is for the relative safety of the troops.– a noble concern that Bush et al disregarded when they not only began their tortur program but exported to Abu Ghraib (and Afghanistan) via General Miller.
4) It is incumbent on the obama administration to avoid further endangering our troops in the war that was handed to him by George “Mission Accomplished” and I’ll be sprinting to the finish” Bush.
5) It is also incumbent on President Obama and the Congress to make public all relevant evidence regarding the Bush policy of torture so that the American public has the most complete understanding of what was done ‘in their name’ and so that US AND International law is demonstrably upheld and that it prevails.
6) It is incumbent on the COURTS, over which the Obama administration has no authority, to decide the merits of the objections put forth.
7) It is incumbent upon American citizens who value the rule of law to demand that no relevant evidence be withheld in this matter.
It seems to me the grounds for the White House objection are reasonable, but it is up to the courts to determine whether they override the public interest.
Just as long as the evidence isn’t sealed, this apparent ‘reversal’ looks a lot like the practice of sound legal argument made with consideration of the real human, rather than political, consequences that are at stake–without any clear attempt to comprise the legal process or to abuse executive power.
May 13th, 2009 at 3:57 pmMr President,
We don’t need a Daddy-in-Chief trying to protect us from the horrors of the past.
We expect you to lead the prosecution and uphold ALL of the laws in this country. Anything less is treasonist and criminal. You took an oath. Take that very seriously!!!!
May 13th, 2009 at 3:58 pmand on the same “Obama reverses..” thread, liz09 posted”
This TP entry was a little short on info.
NBC News
updated 25 minutes ago
WASHINGTON – Defense and military officials tell NBC News that President Obama will seek to delay the release of hundreds of photos which reportedly depict the abuse of prisoners by U.S. military in Iraq and Afghanistan.
White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs is expected to announce Obama’s decision.
The Pentagon has said it will release the pictures this month.
Gen. Ray Odierno, the top U.S. military commander in Iraq met with Obama at the White House Tuesday to ask the administration not to release the photos. Defense officials say Odierno is “vehemently opposed” to the release because he fears it could create a widespread “backlash” against military forces in both war zones.
According to one official, “It would put a bullseye on the backs of our forces.”
According to military officials many of the photos are similar to the infamous prisoner abuse photos out of Abu Ghraib prison, but some of these photos reportedly include mug shots of prisoners who appear to have been badly beaten during their capture or interrogation.
The photos were gathered in the course of dozens of military investigations of prisoner abuse between 2001 and 2006. Pentagon officials say 400 individual servicemembers have faced disciplinary action, either criminal convictions or non-judicial punishment as a result of the investigations.
The American Civil Liberties Union has sought the release of the photos and won a lawsuit against the U.S. government before the federal appeals court in New York. The only legal option left to the government was to appeal the decision to the Supreme Court. Instead the Obama administration had earlier made the decision to end the appeals and release the photos.
Last week, the president met with his legal team and told them that he did not feel comfortable with the release of the photos because he believes their release would endanger our troops, and because he believes that the national security implications of such a release have not been fully presented to the court.
At the end of that meeting, the President directed his counsel to object to the immediate release of the photos on those grounds.
NBC’s John Yang and Jim Miklaszewski contributed to this story.
May 13th, 2009 at 4:01 pmChange has come to America . . . just a little.
May 13th, 2009 at 4:02 pmMostly the faces and the names.
this was the justification for keeping the counsel of thugs like karl rove secret: executive advisors would be reluctant to engage in frank discussions of policy if their discussions were going to be made public. while that argument makes sense in *that* context, it doesn’t here: there is *absolutely no public policy interest* in encouraging people to take photographs of detainee abuse, other than to help prosecute the abuse. And that’s what we’re doing.
in other words, we want the president’s advisors to be able to speak freely, even if they say ridiculous things. but we have no reason to want people to feel free to take (or pose for) photographs of detainee abuse. The justification simply doesn’t work in this context.
May 13th, 2009 at 4:03 pm5th Estate says:
—
message to the “one official”: don’t our soldiers already have targets on their backs?
May 13th, 2009 at 4:05 pmI don’t have a problem with this decision as long as the photos are available for the courts. It is not necessary for the public to view these photos. We aren’t privy to pictures of murder victims and crime scenes prior to court proceedings so we don’t need to see these pictures prior to Cheney’s trial.
May 13th, 2009 at 4:07 pmIf the pictures of the Nazi death camps can be released – SO CAN THE PICTURES OF AMERICAN TORTURE VICTIMS.
President Obama: WE WILL NOT LET YOU FORGET.
May 13th, 2009 at 4:07 pmWe have actually have a President who thinks before he acts for once. I’m willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and think maybe he does have some legitimate concerns. I don’t know if “sensationalized” is the right word for these photos and I think it does need to come out at some point. Again, as long as they’re used against the people who implemented this system.
May 13th, 2009 at 4:08 pmOkay, so how is threatening to bomb Iran make our troops safer?
May 13th, 2009 at 4:09 pmThe White House would have us believe that releasing these photos now would be in the same context as when GW Botch was in office.
That’s idiotic. We can release these photos with a promise to prosecute. We can change the context. To refuse to see that we can change the context is idiotic also!!!!!
May 13th, 2009 at 4:11 pmAll I can say at this point is that I sure hope that Cheney and his cohorts are being investigated and that we hear about it soon.
I don’t want to see the pictures, but, I do want to see Cheney in court.
May 13th, 2009 at 4:11 pmDid GW Botch and Dick(head lawyer-up and hire Obama?
May 13th, 2009 at 4:16 pmWho has gotten to our new leader and whaaaaaat is thinking. This is beginning to play out badly for all the people who expected more. Openness, transperency and belief in the justice of his work to heal the country and overcome the nightmare of the last 8yrs is dissolving before our eyes. As a member of the ACLU I find this particularly galling and a slap in the face to those of us who spent our hard-earned bucks in support of this version of the Democratic leadership. Additionally, where’s the list of billionaires hiding money in Swiss banks? Where’s the 100% support for a public health plan as an alternative to the status quo? My question box is filling up rapidly but my answer box still looks bleak. Let’s stop this before another black cloud forms in our country’s horizon and cynicism because the catchword of the day. Damn it all, anyway.
May 13th, 2009 at 4:20 pmfirst no call for prosecutions from the administration. now we have lack of transparancy…
I keep hoping it’s only until they have their ducks in a row, because as someone pointed out – there is not a more convenient time to do what must be done. It will be just as painful later as it is now for the government to do the right thing.
This is a big deal for the government to punish their own and set the record straight. They have to get this thing right, or we are doomed.
May 13th, 2009 at 4:22 pmIf the pictures are so bad, will Obama change his mind about the need for prosecuting these criminals? If he still thinks that they shouldn’t be prosecuted, then release the pictures!
May 13th, 2009 at 4:23 pmTo you all who think that these photos should be released…
Can any of you tell me why?
Just to prove Republicans are bad and Bush was wrong??? So freaking what, if that is true!!! Just so we can say “I told you so about Bush”. That is plain bullsht!
We have family and friends that are in danger of being harmed by the release of these photos. I personally have family members in Iraq and I don’t want any potential harm coming their way.
ALL PICTURES AND EVIDENCE OF THE PAST ADMINISTRATION SHOULD BE CLASSIFIED IF IT WILL BRING HARM TO OUR TROOPS AND CITIZENS ABROAD!!!!!!
May 13th, 2009 at 4:28 pmTheyve done enough to prove my point that the USA is evil!
Whats funny is that they dont even realize they destroyed your country in doing so.
THeir base of leftists who hate the USA like I do. Only I hate ALL of you. Both the left and the right.
THey simply bashed the USA for political gain with no forethought of what would happen.
PERFECT!
Like spending one dollar and borrowing fifty cents for the new budget.
America is imploding! Obama, the messiah is leading the CHARGE!
THE WORLD HATES THE USA.
DOWN WITH THE DEMOCRACY THAT TORTURES. RELEASE THE PHOTOS! SHOW JUST ONE MORE SIDE OF THE EVIL THE WORLD HAS TO DEAL WITH> THE USA!
May 13th, 2009 at 4:28 pm45 – If we were so damned concerned about the safety of our troops – WE NEVER SHOULD HAVE USED TORTURE IN THE FIRST PLACE.
That horse left the barn 7 or 8 YEARS ago.
May 13th, 2009 at 4:33 pm@44 cwarddc Says:
Ya, something is wrong here.. maybe they know the appeal to withhold the photos will ultimately fail… that way the release can be scheduled for after the troop draw-down that has been promised?
May 13th, 2009 at 4:36 pmIf they can’t release the photos then the crime must have been bad enough to prosecute.
If the crime was not bad enough to prosecute then what would be the harm be in releasing the photos?
May 13th, 2009 at 4:37 pmThe only photos I want to see are…
Bush and Cheney on trial…OR…
….Bush and Cheney in prison for torture, treason, failure to uphold the constitution.
May 13th, 2009 at 4:38 pmWe need to lock up the USA government and THROW AWAY THE KEY!
THen put every USA person who voted in the democracy that caused this great evil into labor camps!
All of you should pay for your crimes of this democracy you voted for. You should never find joy or happiness again. Locked in chains working your country’s debt off to the world.
The USA is EVIL!
May 13th, 2009 at 4:40 pm@45 TheDiplomat Says:
If releasing the photos will rally additional attacks on the troops, then we can delay release until the troops are gone.
After they are gone in 18 months, the photos should be released by requirement of law, to prevent another occurrence in the future.
May 13th, 2009 at 4:41 pmOne positive thing that releasing ALL the photos would bring us is that it would end the lie that “torture was only used in a few circumstances and it was done under specific rules”
We tortured people, a lot of people, we tortured children.
May 13th, 2009 at 4:41 pmIf Obama can’t stick to his values, and his word, then I can’t support him. period.
http://theync.com/media.php?name=6826-shocking-man-is-murdered
May 13th, 2009 at 4:41 pmAll of you will burn in HELL!
May 13th, 2009 at 4:43 pmYou voted for this stuff, its YOUR DEMOCRACY! I say you rot all of you in prison camps.
The world hates the USA and this is just another reason why.
Lets see more photos of you pigs!
47 – Libellula saturata Annie
That doesn’t make any sense. Obama wasn’t president, nor in the senate then, so why should he release 6-7 year old photos?
Look I am a Obama supporter a progressive and a democrat. However, releasing these photos is plain wrong. It serves the ACLU and the terrorist, no one else!
CAN ANYONE TELL ME WHY SHOULD THE PHOTOS BE RELEASED???
May 13th, 2009 at 4:45 pmTheDiplomat Says:
To you all who think that these photos should be released…
Can any of you tell me why?
Just to prove Republicans are bad and Bush was wrong??? So freaking what, if that is true!!! Just so we can say “I told you so about Bush”. That is plain bullsht!
We have family and friends that are in danger of being harmed by the release of these photos. I personally have family members in Iraq and I don’t want any potential harm coming their way.
First of all, your family and friends are already in danger, do you really think that the Iraqi people don’t know what we did? Do you really think they haven’t noticed that their family and friends have “disappeared”? Do you really think they think we’re different than Saddam at this point? Releasing the pictures, and putting those responsible on trial would show we’re different and would give those who seek justice a relief that wouldn’t involve revenge killing of random troops.
Just to prove Republicans are bad and Bush was wrong??? So freaking what, if that is true!!!
Are you saying bush was right? are you arguing that torture is ok, justified, good? Would you feel that way if one of your friends or family members were tortured? Cuz that’s going to happen to someones’ friends and family members….
The reason why we need to have those pics released is to stop the liars who claim that torture was rare, required for our safety and done responsibily.
May 13th, 2009 at 4:49 pmTo the point and right on target!
May 13th, 2009 at 4:49 pmright.wing.leftwing Says:
Bite me troll.
May 13th, 2009 at 4:50 pmDiplomat – can you please calm down? The stupid pictures aren’t going to be released so why are you insisting on getting an answer? It’s a moot question. Now whether or not the non-release of the pictures will help your family members in Iraq…well that I don’t know.
May 13th, 2009 at 4:52 pmBobwurst Says:
We tortured people, a lot of people, we tortured children.
———————————————————
Bobwurst, prove it. Show me evidence. Yeah I know it is in the pictures.
Unlike you I am not a left-wing wacko or right-wing wacko for that matter. I choose to use common sense. I have yet to read a common sense explanation for why the photos should be released.
52 Ape-Man, that is reasonable, however we still have people living in those areas and we will still have troops in Afghanistan.
May 13th, 2009 at 4:53 pmTheDiplomat Says:
Look I am a Obama supporter a progressive and a democrat. However, releasing these photos is plain wrong. It serves the ACLU and the terrorist, no one else!
CAN ANYONE TELL ME WHY SHOULD THE PHOTOS BE RELEASED???
First of all, you don’t sound like a reasonable person so you cannot be a democrat or progressive. The fact you brought in the ACLU makes it even more apparent you are probably a GOP shill posting here for a couple dollars.
Let me explain why showing the planet that we get the fact we tortured suspects – at least 80 of them to death! The civilized countries signed treaties and set up international methods of investigating and – if necessary, prosecute the wrong doing SO WE DON’T DO IT AGAIN! It shows the world that the greatest nation on earth will do the right thing and if that doesn’t happen, we will take the proper steps to punish those who did the wrongdoing.
WTF does the ACLU have to do with your point? The ACLU has YOU as its main interests. It isa set up to protect YOU from your government over-reach. Pray for them as they are heroes.
May 13th, 2009 at 4:58 pmTheDiplomat Says:
We have family and friends that are in danger of being harmed by the release of these photos. I personally have family members in Iraq and I don’t want any potential harm coming their way.
ALL PICTURES AND EVIDENCE OF THE PAST ADMINISTRATION SHOULD BE CLASSIFIED IF IT WILL BRING HARM TO OUR TROOPS AND CITIZENS ABROAD!!!!!!
May 13th, 2009 at 4:28 pm
____________
Sorry, but I don’t buy the “it’ll bring harm to our people” argument. It’s complete bullshit. Do you think that Taliban insurgents are sitting on the fence about whether or not to attack an Army convoy, waiting to see if the White House will release some photos first? Please. Nobody is going to be attacking our troops and civilian workers who wasn’t going to be doing so anyway.
We as a country have to be cleansed of our sins. Torture, prisoner abuse, human rights violations – these are grave sins. The first critical step is confessing. We need to show the world what we have done, and we need to show the world that we are punishing those responsible.
Will this make some people around the world angry? Sure, for a while. But this will calm when they see that we are not tolerating this behavior, and that we are confessing to this behavior. In the long term, this will SAVE the lives of our troops and civilians.
May 13th, 2009 at 5:04 pmStratRat Says:
WTF does the ACLU have to do with your point? The ACLU has YOU as its main interests. It isa set up to protect YOU from your government over-reach. Pray for them as they are heroes.
May 13th, 2009 at 4:58 pm
__________
Well, it was the ACLU who filed the lawsuit demanding the photos be released. So they do have some relevance…
May 13th, 2009 at 5:07 pmWell, it was the ACLU who filed the lawsuit demanding the photos be released. So they do have some relevance…
Understood, but Diplomats reference that the release of the photos only helps the ACLU and the terrorists seems to imply that Diplomat considers them to be almost one in the same.
The ACLU is a good organization dedicated to free speech and the rule of law. The terrorists, of course, do not believe in this. It was the context of his usage which bothered me.
May 13th, 2009 at 5:10 pmCAN ANYONE TELL ME WHY SHOULD THE PHOTOS BE RELEASED???
because they are sources of information and information allows people to think about topics in more complex ways?
May 13th, 2009 at 5:12 pmThank you all for your outrage, I join in..May I add this put’s a whole new spin on the words..Hump Day…Wish these damn polatician’s would learn to atleast give a kiss before the screwing…:Looks like once again the old saying I keep repeating..”There is no justice, only point’s of law” is even taking a beating..Our Predident will do as he pleases no matter what he was required to do..The troop’s are no safer either way..Ya want to end the war’s and create Peace, demand all the troops be brought home now..Before Israel talks the gov. into bombing Iran and creating another one….P.B. & J
May 13th, 2009 at 5:12 pm62 StratRat,
Obviously you don’t read. The ACLU are main group pushing for the release of the photos.
http://www.aclu.org/safefree/torture/torturefoia.html
So you think that showing people these pictures will convince other countries that we have changed??? StratRat, you are an idiot.
FYI, I gave more money and time to the Obama campaign and other democratic causes than you can image. I had a special invite to the inauguration because of the amount of money I raised and donated you clown.
May 13th, 2009 at 5:12 pmWhy was it so important that the graphic images of the burnt bodies of American contractors be made so readily available?
May 13th, 2009 at 5:13 pmAnd yet, you support the administration that committed the acts that now put the troops in jeopardy. Where were you complaining about the Bush administration committing acts that put loved ones at risk. He freakin’ invaded Iraq for absolutely no reason. Over 4,000 dead troops and how many injured. Not to mention the people angered because of innocent dead Iraqis. It’s not the pictures that put troops at risk it’s the ACTIONS
May 13th, 2009 at 5:16 pmTheDiplomat Says:
So you think that showing people these pictures will convince other countries that we have changed??? StratRat, you are an idiot.
May 13th, 2009 at 5:12 pm
____________
And do you think it will be any better for your family and friends serving overseas when these photos are inevitably leaked to the foreign press? They will get out. Somehow, someday, they will be seen.
An administration as media-savvy as this one should know that it’s better to get out in front of a story like this one instead of waiting for it to bite them in the ass.
May 13th, 2009 at 5:20 pmThank you pastcaring!
This torture thing is totally surreal.
May 13th, 2009 at 5:22 pmDoodlebug Shayne,
“you support the administration that committed the acts”
What are you talking about????
“Just so we can say “I told you so about Bush”. That is plain bullsht!” TheDiplomat
I wasn’t saying that Bush was right. I was trying to explain that it is bullsht to risk the lives of other people just to be able to say “I told you so”.
May 13th, 2009 at 5:25 pmDiplomat – I am not impressed, nor is probably anyone else here that you supposedly bought your way into a “special invite” for Obama’s inaugeration. Money is not what impresses people here.
I don’t know about the money thing, but, I do know that you sure don’t sound like a progressive. Calling other people an “idiot”, a “clown”…I also know that those are probably not words a real diplomat would use either!
May 13th, 2009 at 5:26 pmNice, you answered your own question.
That doesn’t make you more of a citizen than any of us. We all get ONE vote. We have been allowing crimes to go unpunished since before Richard Nixon left office in shame. Who shot JFK, Watergate, Iran/Contra, the theft of the 2000 election and that’s the beginning. And who was around for the whole ordeal. GHW Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and the rest. Until something is done to expose them and stop the tide we are no better than any banana republic.
Some of us have HAD ENOUGH.
May 13th, 2009 at 5:27 pmDiplomat – please point out where ANYONE here said the they were willing to risk the lives of other people just to be able to say “I told you so“.
Thank you.
May 13th, 2009 at 5:27 pmSo the premise is that if reality is allowed to see the light of day, the people whose people were subjected to these realities will get pissed off and want revenge which puts the people of the people that created these realities at risk. Is that correct?
May 13th, 2009 at 5:29 pmI tend to discount any opinion that involves LOL or any of it’s middle school derivations…
May 13th, 2009 at 5:30 pmIf one believes in the values and ideals of this country as understood by most Americans then torture is wrong, illegal and, from what the experts are saying, it doesn’t work!
Well, I suppose you could say it “works” if you’re someone like Cheney who is just trying to torture a detainee into saying what the interrogators were looking to hear, you know, like false reasons for going into Iraq for example.
May 13th, 2009 at 5:30 pmWe dropped a bomb on Hiroshima. How many of the folks that bombed Pearl Harbor were there. We are all to blame for a country that has gotten so out of control. Nobody stood up to Bush or for Gore when our entire political system was compromised by the theft of the presidency. We are all to blame.
The troops are supposed to be coming home, where are they? Obviously it’s going to take serious action, and I don’t mean pansy teabagger parties. It is going to take the left to fix things the right has destroyed. If President Obama doesn’t want to help then he best get out of the way.
May 13th, 2009 at 5:33 pmShut up you ignorant twit. You are not fit to shine his shoes. Not even with your tongue. Loser.
May 13th, 2009 at 5:34 pmIf you believe what people who have studied and written about it for a long time say, then it seems to be along the lines of business as usual.
May 13th, 2009 at 5:35 pmTheDiplomat Says:
62 StratRat,
Obviously you don’t read. The ACLU are main group pushing for the release of the photos.
http://www.aclu.org/safefree/torture/torturefoia.html
So you think that showing people these pictures will convince other countries that we have changed??? StratRat, you are an idiot.
Nice try, but no. I know the ACLU wants them out and I want them out too. What’s the problem?. YOU seem to want to hide stuff from the American people and the world. Bush liked to hide things too. Obama seems to also want to hide things which don’t reflect well on America. I don’t care about anything but the truth and the proper way to handle this so we don’t travel this path again. Why is that hard to understand? We marched the captured german soldiers through concentration camps to show what their behavior allowed. We also showed the camps to all the news folks so the world could see what went on – it is called THE TRUTH. Not a debate topic, but THE TRUTH.
As to your FYI – Words are extremely cheap – free in fact. Folks who are comfortable in their own skin rarely need to shout out their self proclaimed accomplishments. Ya know what I mean? Sure you do….
May 13th, 2009 at 5:35 pmYou know what the Republicans said, “Its a volunteer military.” Take it up with them.
May 13th, 2009 at 5:36 pmApe-Man Says:
I keep hoping it’s only until they have their ducks in a row, because as someone pointed out – there is not a more convenient time to do what must be done. It will be just as painful later as it is now for the government to do the right thing.
Right. And next year it will too close to election time so Obama won’t release the photos then or he’ll be accused of using them for partisan gain, and after the election it will water under the bridge, just like the investigation of the WMD claims during bush’s re-election.
May 13th, 2009 at 5:36 pmFirst off I wasn’t responding to neither of you two. I was responding to the person that called me a “GOP shill posting here for a couple dollars.”
Second the “Yeah I know it is in the pictures.” was sarcasm. The pictures will not do anything towards prosecuting Cheney or Bush. It will not even damage them, the damage is already done.
So now why do you want to see the pictures again?
May 13th, 2009 at 5:38 pmbecause they are sources of information and information allows people to think about topics in more complex ways?
May 13th, 2009 at 5:43 pmTheDiplomat Says:
Bobwurst Says:
We tortured people, a lot of people, we tortured children.
Bobwurst, prove it. Show me evidence. Yeah I know it is in the pictures.
http://bbs.chinadaily.com.cn/redirect.php?tid=633576&goto=newpost
Unlike you I am not a left-wing wacko or right-wing wacko for that matter.
diplomat, prove it show me the evidence. Nothing you’ve posted here proves you are anything other than a sockpuppet.
I choose to use common sense. I have yet to read a common sense explanation for why the photos should be released.
You wouldn’t know common sense if you were locked in a box with it troll.
May 13th, 2009 at 5:44 pmpastcaring Says:
mary lacewing Says:
This torture thing is totally surreal.
If you believe what people who have studied and written about it for a long time say, then it seems to be along the lines of business as usual.
Ah yes, I guess the rumors are true then. What to do? I see that the writer of that blog is trying to gather evidence – no “omong kosong” for him!
Btw, thanks for that link. I’m going to go back there from time to time. As repugnant as the truth can be sometimes I’d rather know the truth than be ignorant.
May 13th, 2009 at 5:45 pmI agree with Gibbs… we should hold off on releasing the Photos.
Such photos are INCENDIARY….and could result in some outraged Muslim attacking and killing our soldiers.
We should release them later, along with a National Apology and the announcement of INDICTMENTS .
I remember in 1999, when photos of three American Soldiers captured in the Balkan War were on the cover of the Newsmagazines. They looked beaten up…black eyes etc.
INCENDIARY
May 13th, 2009 at 5:45 pmGreat posts Lady Shayne and all….Blessings
May 13th, 2009 at 5:46 pmHey folks, don’t pick on Dipshit, he’s more of a democrat than any of us, he’s given all kinds of money to the Obama campaign, and besides since he has friends and famliy serving in OEF and OIF he’s the only one who can speak on these matters….
May 13th, 2009 at 5:47 pmflag happy at 91
May 13th, 2009 at 5:47 pmdbadass,
That is actually the best answer really the only answer I have received and it is a good answer.
Every classified document we have is a source of information that we could use to think about topics in more complex ways.
Do you suggest we release every classified document we have?
May 13th, 2009 at 5:48 pmActually Nairn broke the story of the Reagan Connection to the Salvadoran death squads…which then were imported to Iraq to the point that officials were referring to it as the ‘Salvadoran Option’.
It is sick and disgusting…but I would rather know than believe the fantasy they would have us believe.—That’s why it’s important for the photos to be released.
May 13th, 2009 at 5:49 pmTheDiplomat Says:
First off I wasn’t responding to neither of you two. I was responding to the person that called me a “GOP shill posting here for a couple dollars.”
Second the “Yeah I know it is in the pictures.” was sarcasm. The pictures will not do anything towards prosecuting Cheney or Bush. It will not even damage them, the damage is already done.
So now why do you want to see the pictures again?
I accused you of being a shill for the GOP. Frankly, reading some of your responses – I still sense that. Your words will either hide your motivations or uncover them. Your words also seem to mesh with the previous presidents in that hiding things from the taxpayers is a healthy thing to do. And why wouldn’t the evidence revealed in the pictures bring harm to Bush and Cheney’s legal case? I am no lawyer, but visible evidence and the latest screeds by Cheney suggest to me that torture when on day after day, year after year. Ordered by Bush and Cheney. That seems to be pretty convincing arguments that the photos are a valuable legal tool.
But then again, I am no lawyer – just a sensible citizen who didn’t have a ’special invite’ to the Villager’s Ball.
May 13th, 2009 at 5:50 pmLet’s see if Cheney disappears for a while. That would be a good indication that there was a quid pro quo made: Obama won’t release the photos if cheney will stop lying on the tv.
May 13th, 2009 at 5:50 pmComing from someone who cruises blogs looking for homosexual dates, that’s rich!
—
May 13th, 2009 at 5:50 pmSee when you post silly made up tripe that makes you look like a little child it causes you to lose any credibility. I am sure you realize this but whereas you gig seems to be yet more negative attention seeking I suppose it matters not. Either way when people read stuff like yours they just write you off as a sorry clown struggling for acceptance in a world which seems to have alienated and isolated you…
So if the pictures aren’t as bad as the ones that were already released, why not release them? That makes this situation make EVEN LESS sense than it did before.
May 13th, 2009 at 5:51 pmAren’t you glad you gave the diplomat a good answer dbadass?
Now he’s gone and taken your answer and jumped off the bridge with it.
No gratitude at all!
May 13th, 2009 at 5:51 pm@87 So now why do you want to see the pictures again?
So the people can see the work Bush has done in their name. So it will never happen again. So the torture apologists have something to apologize for.
May 13th, 2009 at 5:53 pmDo you suggest we release every classified document we have?
—
May 13th, 2009 at 5:53 pmEach situation is indeed unique but I think it might be advisable to first ask if the documentation reflects criminal actions as these decisions are made.
Does the Whitehouse actually believe the world does not already know American Interrogators sodomized young Iraqi boys and video taped it????
The people of the U.S. are about the only ones who DON’T know it.
The only way to protect American soldiers is to release these photos and videos and PUNISH THOSE WHO DID IT AND ORDERED IT TO BE DONE, i.e. GEORGE W. BUSH AND DICK CHENEY!!!!!
May 13th, 2009 at 5:53 pmAmen! Our collective ignorance keeps history repeating over and over again.
May 13th, 2009 at 5:58 pmpastcaring Says:
I would rather know than believe the fantasy they would have us believe.—
If you don’t mind my saying, it doesn’t sound like you’re ‘pastcaring’ to me!
Thanks again. I highly value good information.
May 13th, 2009 at 5:58 pmHey lookie there seems someone is looking for a date… I was gonna give it a recommend just for my own amusement…
May 13th, 2009 at 6:00 pmMaybe the name was a poor choice…hmmm…it is a conundrum.
May 13th, 2009 at 6:00 pmObviously you are not in contact with all the Americans who don’t believe this all happened.
May 13th, 2009 at 6:04 pmThat’s what Dick Cheney is suggesting, where have you been. You know, he’s claiming it will show how well the not torture worked.
May 13th, 2009 at 6:05 pmNow the trolls (they know who they are) are going to be apoplectic trying to figure out what conundrum means. :=)
May 13th, 2009 at 6:11 pm‘I thought I was pastcaring’?
:)
May 13th, 2009 at 6:12 pmDoodlebug Shayne Says:
pastcaring Says:
Maybe the name was a poor choice…hmmm…it is a conundrum.
Now the trolls (they know who they are) are going to be apoplectic trying to figure out what conundrum means. :=)
lol – we’ll have to keep a lookout to see if one of them tries to use it in a sentence soon…
May 13th, 2009 at 6:14 pm:]
May 13th, 2009 at 6:15 pmThey might confuse it with humdrum…as in that’s what they are…
:|
May 13th, 2009 at 6:18 pmHe’s not the Messiah! Just another lying poltician’ get used to it lads and lassies. HaHa. You thought he was special.
May 13th, 2009 at 6:27 pmWho ever claimed he was the messiah? Is this like that Al Gore internet thing and that Clinton staffers trashing the place deal?
May 13th, 2009 at 6:31 pmbuilder54 Says:
He’s not the Messiah! Just another lying poltician’ get used to it lads and lassies. HaHa. You thought he was special
And I am sure your Mom mentioned to you many times that you were special, huh? After every failure you were reminded that you are indeed special. Short bus special.
BTW: The GOP labeled Obama the Messiah, nobody else did that. That makes you doubly special.
May 13th, 2009 at 6:34 pmWhatever makes you happy
May 13th, 2009 at 6:37 pmWhatever you want
Youre so f uckin special
I wish I was special…
TheDiplomat Says:
CAN ANYONE TELL ME WHY SHOULD THE PHOTOS BE RELEASED???
I’ve done this once already today, but if you insist.
The pictures, unreleased, make for a much larger propaganda tool. Our enemies can use the fact that we chose not to release them, to say that even worse things were done, and we have no way to rebut their assertions, because we refuse to release them. Every bit of inhuman barbarity they can imagine can be laid out as recruiting propaganda, and since the pictures are under wraps, we cannot refute whatever insanity they can assert. Sunlight is always the best disinfectant, when working with diseased (propagandized) minds.
May 13th, 2009 at 6:44 pmperhaps Obama fully plans on the supreme court defeating him on this, therefore, getting the truth out, while still having political cover
just a thought
May 13th, 2009 at 7:24 pmbuilder54 Says:
He’s not the Messiah! Just another lying poltician’ get used to it lads and lassies. HaHa. You thought he was special
Go away bob you inbred unamerican regressive moran.
May 13th, 2009 at 7:27 pmRegardless of how the Supreme Court may Decide this case, throwing it back to the courts will BUY TIME.
If the Supreme court DOES weigh in on this matter, it won’t be until the next session…after October.
We are at a critical Junction in this “War on Terror”.
I sense that President Obama is in the midst of REASSESSING the whole strategy.
Obama will be giving a major Address to the Muslim World when he visits Egypt.
Pakistan is in the midst of a DICEY Civil War with the Taliban.
We need cool heads to prevail, and throwing a lit match on the tinderbox of Muslim Public Opinion will not be helpfull.
May 13th, 2009 at 7:39 pmSPECIAL PROSECUTOR NOW!
May 13th, 2009 at 8:41 pmEnough with the bullshit and delays.
You better decide if you want a second term President Obama.
Personally, I hope Obama gets slammed for this two-faced tapdance.
He did this with telecom immunity. He did this with the State Secrets policy, and now he’s spending more political capital on another reversal that his acolytes will step up and blindly defend.
I think the ‘anointed’ veneer has worn off with this latest flip-flop. (It wore off for me with the immunity vote.) Obama needs a wallop of public outrage to discourage his wholesale cover of bush atrocities, and make no mistake, it’s exactly what he’s doing.
By fighting release of this evidence, Obama is not only appearing guilty and suspect of another coverup, he is confirming for those affected that there’s something to hide rather than electing to release the photos and taking the responsibility for the obvious misconduct and criminal wrongdoing that this evidence represents.
Obama ain’t stepping up, he’s opting for the convenience of denial rather than the necessity of the global Mea Culpa that these photos demand.
Obama’s taking the cowardly road.
More from Greenwald:
Obambusha?
May 13th, 2009 at 8:48 pmThere isn’t one single day that this administration does not disapoint me…
May 13th, 2009 at 8:54 pmThe Afegan and Pakistan wars and the continuing re-branding the Iraq occupation…
I hope ‘Chalmers Johnson’ is wrong, but I very much doubt he is mistaken. Saddly!
thanks a lot very good
Hikaye
May 13th, 2009 at 8:58 pmHikayeler
Hosting
Yes nothing is added by the photo release. Just honesty and transparency and a promise made by Obama. But aside from those picky things nothing important.
Obama is breaking promises faster then he was at making them. And since I no longer listen to him, three months into his tenure, it will be a long four years.
No one is going to jail or being fired for financial corruption. No one is going to be investigated with an eye to prosecution for torture. No one is going to be investigated or jailed for treason. In other words all these criminals of the Bush crime family are going to tap dance away faster then a Fred Astaire routine.
We are a corrupt, shallow, semi free, semi democratic, semi civilized nation. And we have a semi administration.
May 13th, 2009 at 9:06 pmToday, Obama reiterated his concern that the photos might endanger U.S. troops serving abroad and have a “chilling effect on future investigations of detainee abuse.” Unlike Gibbs, Obama said that there was nothing sensational about the photos: “I want to emphasize that these photos that were requested in this case are not particularly sensational, especially when compared to the painful images that we remember from Abu Ghraib. But they do represent conduct that did not conform with the Army Manual.
This. Is.A.Lie.
From the same Greenwald post:
Obama is wrong and a very poor bush apologist. If he keeps standing in the way of justice, his political career will be ground beneath the wheels; I for one will aggressively campaign against him if he doesn’t knock this pathetic bush-coverup sh¡t off.
May 13th, 2009 at 9:09 pmWe need to see these photos. They need to be plastered on every single teevee in every single American household for one simple reason:
SO WE WILL NEVER AGAIN ALLOW THIS TO HAPPEN.
As long as there are no pictures, there will be wingnuts demanding “harsh interrogations” “because they work.”
They do not work, and we fat and stupid moronic Americans NEED TO SEE THAT IN TECHNICOLOR.
May 13th, 2009 at 11:22 pmEat sh*t, OS – we aren’t the authoritarians marching in lockstep. One reason why the Repukes were able to steal power is because we Democrats *don’t* march in lockstep like you.
If Obama breaks his promises to us – we will break *him*.
May 13th, 2009 at 11:25 pmDoesn’t the reason for the refusal (Will incite militants) – doesn’t that make it reasonable for me to assume that they are far worse than what has already been released ?
The monster you can’t see, but can only imagine, is far worse than the reality of the monster which really exists.
May 13th, 2009 at 11:27 pmI guess you’d be an expert on broken promises after EIGHT YEARS of the Chimperor’s rule, eh?
Spare me. Obama’s been in office for a little over 100 DAYS. I’m not ready to write him off yet.
You idiot Pukes are *STILL* defending Chimpy.
Got stupid?
May 14th, 2009 at 1:22 amAnd anyone who “cared for our soldiers” WOULDN’T HAVE PROMOTED TORTURE.
Put the blame WHERE IT BELONGS, moron: on Bush and Cheney.
May 14th, 2009 at 1:24 am.
Dear TheDiplomat,
So, are you positioning yourself to mean that keeping our troops mired in an illegal war that keeps graveyards in foreign lands filled to capacity, isn’t the greatest target on our troops back?
See no evil
Hear no evil
Speak no evil
.
May 14th, 2009 at 4:29 amhanshiro,
Obama lost me when, as a Senator, he voted to cover up for warrantless wire tapping of Americans, knowing that he would most likely become the next President of the USA. And even today, he reinforces why I didn’t vote for him.
I made a conscious choice, in 2005, to never vote for a person who is willing to usurp my Rights. And to this day, neither of my Senators will get my vote.
May 14th, 2009 at 4:37 amf**k the USA soldiers!
WHo gives a r*ts a** if they die?
I dont! Every soldier should die! Its a voluntary army of yours!
THey volunteered under their own free will to rape and pillage in the name of the greatest EVIL that the world has ever known.
That is the USA!
Child labor slavery so you fat slobs dont have to make your own shoes. Way overpriced cars. India has a car for 2500$ that rivals the best of your failed American car companies.
You just dont get it. 6 billion people minus your 300 million, will work alot harder and longer for a fraction of what you as American workers offer!
May 14th, 2009 at 7:29 amYou are so dumb, fat, obese Americans. You fell for Obama’s swan song like chumps. He cant change the facts on the ground. THe facts are, you dont study, you are not educated, you have no skills. You cant borrow your way to utopia. USA is done
USA is done.
Tales of our demise are premature.
I dont! Every soldier should die! Its a voluntary army of yours!
Except many choose the military because they can’t find employment, making it an economic draft, for many soldiers.
You just dont get it. 6 billion people minus your 300 million, will work alot harder and longer for a fraction of what you as American workers offer!
American airlines don’t use foreign mechanics, because they aren’t as thorough at inspection, or as trustworthy at keeping traceability of parts documented, so that if a plane goes down, others with the same series number of parts can be inspected, and repaired if necessary. And when was the last time you heard of an American building collapsing from poor design or shoddy workmanship? Can’t say the same for other countries, especially in Asia.
May 14th, 2009 at 8:19 amTHe facts are, you dont study, you are not educated, you have no skills.
A veritable field of strawmen.
May 14th, 2009 at 8:20 am“I am a firm believer in the people. If given the truth, they can be depended upon to meet any national crises. The great point is to bring them the real facts.”
-Abraham Lincoln
“We are not afraid to entrust the American people with unpleasant facts, foreign ideas, alien philosophies, and competitive values. For a nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people.”
-John F. Kennedy
“The best way to enhance freedom in other lands is to demonstrate here that our democratic system is worthy of emulation.”
-Jimmy Carter
“The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it.”
-Flannery O’Connor
May 14th, 2009 at 8:51 am137. OS Says: Any body that wants these photos out cares not about our soldiers. Plain and simple.
Anyone who doesn’t want these photos out cares not about justice, accountability, the numerous treaties that were broken, democracy, and the foundations upon which this country was supposedly founded.
The entire ugly truth, brought to the full light of day, is the absolute only way to expel the toxicity before any reparation and real healing can begin. Any psychologist can tell you that. However, any psychologist can also tell you that concealment of heinous crimes only guarantees the likelihood of a national psychosis and perpetuation of an insane “american exceptionalism.”
The kind of national psychosis that, without exception, has preceded the downfall of countless governments.
May 14th, 2009 at 9:11 amObama is not a “reactionary”. He thinks before he acts and it may take time to think through the best action. We have become so accustomed to the Bush/Cheney and right wing-nut quick reactions to everything that it will take some time for us to get used to the thoughtful responses of President Obama.
May 14th, 2009 at 10:05 amThe ACLU shouldn’t take the Obama decision personally.
This is politics and there is a common sense argument that the release of MORE DISGRACEFUL torture photos will re-inflame tensions in the middle east at a time when Obama is trying to turn the page on RACIST Jewish lobby/Neo Con diplomacy in the region.
Why isn’t the ACLU putting more effort in investigating physical abuse, rape, sodomy, and TORTURE IN AMERICA??? What about the punk police who continue to abuse AMERICANS.
After 9/11, the usual suspects: Racist redneck correctional and police officers abused and raped AMERICAN born muslims (mostly black).
May 14th, 2009 at 11:19 amthank you. Beatifull Archile !
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May 17th, 2009 at 7:17 pm