Graham: Since torture techniques have ’survived for about 500 years,’ ‘apparently they work.’
Graham: Since torture techniques have ’survived for about 500 years,’ ‘apparently they work.’
In today’s hearing on detainee interrogations, Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC) attempted to defend the Bush administration’s torture program. “Let’s have both sides of the story here,” Graham declared, saying there could be evidence that torture provided “good information.” Graham then made the puzzling claim that since torture has been used for half a millenium, it “apparently” is useful:
The Vice President is suggesting that there was good information obtained, and I’d like the committee to get that information. Let’s have both sides of the story here. I mean, one of the reasons these techniques have survived for about 500 years is apparently they work.
Former FBI interrogator Ali Soufan responded, “Because, sir, there’s a lot of people who don’t know how to interrogate, and it’s easier to hit somebody than outsmart them.” Watch it:
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“Because, sir, there’s a lot of people who don’t know how to interrogate, and it’s easier to hit somebody than outsmart them.”
pwned!!!!!
May 13th, 2009 at 2:38 pm.
Silly Graham, logic is for adults.
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May 13th, 2009 at 2:39 pm“[H]alf a century”
I think you mean half a millenium.
May 13th, 2009 at 2:40 pm.
So Graham thinks TORTURE is great?
Because you can still doesn’t make it correct.
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May 13th, 2009 at 2:41 pmI mean, one of the reasons these techniques have survived for about 500 years is apparently they work.
Of course they work.
The thing is, what they work for is indulging the primal human impulse to hurt and dehumanize another who is perceived as a threat.
Not for getting useful information, if professional interrogators are to be believed.
May 13th, 2009 at 2:41 pmHmm. Maybe Graham has a point. I mean, slavery has been going on for thousands of years for a reason – it works. Perhaps we should consider re-legalizing slavery in this country.
May 13th, 2009 at 2:41 pmProstitution is the world’s oldest profession, right? The reason it’s been around since the dawn of civilization is because it works. Sen. Graham, I support your efforts to legalize prostitution.
May 13th, 2009 at 2:42 pm.
I guess Graham thinks that McCain was justly TORTURED.
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May 13th, 2009 at 2:42 pmWhat other barbaric practices that have been around for that long can we use?
May 13th, 2009 at 2:43 pmToaster,
May 13th, 2009 at 2:43 pmI almost said the same thing. I also wanted to include homosexuality. Great minds…
Say what you want, but waterboarding someone 183 times in a month is a pattern of retribution, not intelligence gathering.
May 13th, 2009 at 2:44 pmWell if Graham is so phucking smart, why can’t he simply UNDERSTAND? JC, he goes on ad infinitum with, “I understand, I understand, I understand that, but . . ” Mensa he is NOT.
May 13th, 2009 at 2:44 pmFuture generations will wonder why we ever tolerated these people.
May 13th, 2009 at 2:44 pmOMG he’s getting dumberer. What a frigging imbecile.
May 13th, 2009 at 2:45 pmHuman sacrifice – preferably of children – has been practiced in many human societies for many thousands of years, to appease the gods and ensure that the sun rises and the rains fall. Since sun continues to rise and rain continues to fall, it’s pretty obvious that human sacrifice works, and we should not give up on this practice any time soon.
May 13th, 2009 at 2:46 pmSpeaking of Lindsey Graham; are we focusing too much on just one form of torture? i/e-waterboarding.
May 13th, 2009 at 2:46 pmDon’t you suppose that we also used sodomy on many of these Moslems?
I know Lindsey would be all for that.
I’ll just bet all the other Jags and former Jags cringe every time Lyndsey opens his mouth, fearing what stupid thing will pop out next, and make them look stupid as well.
May 13th, 2009 at 2:47 pmGraham is a rethuglican wingnut fool. We’ve been getting both sides of the story all this time and it’s been determined that torture is not effective at obtaining truthful information. Most of all torturing someone is illegal.
May 13th, 2009 at 2:47 pmAnd religion has been around for thousands of years. Look how well THAT’S worked out for the world. Longevity does not guarantee effectiveness. Just look at the Bush Administration.
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again hoping to achieve a different result. Are we there yet?
May 13th, 2009 at 2:48 pmMy goodness, this guy Graham is a moron. Voodoo has also been around for hundreds of years. So has witchcraft. Is this evidence that these practices work?
Have we lost the torture debate? Isn’t torture illegal in the U.S.? Didn’t Ronald Reagan’s sign, and the Senate ratify, the Geneva Convention? Doesn’t this ratification make it official U.S. law as per Article VI of the U.S. Constitution? Doesn’t the Geneva Convention outlaw torture, and specifically state that “no exceptional circumstances whatsoever” can exist to nullify its illegality?
Why are we even debating whether it is effective or not? It’s beside the point—it is illegal, period.
May 13th, 2009 at 2:48 pmPoor Lindsey. Bless her heart. She is so dumb, she doesn’t even know it.
May 13th, 2009 at 2:48 pmLindsey thinks torture works because it would work on him because he’s a pansy little coward, like all right wingers
May 13th, 2009 at 2:48 pmIsn’t crucifixion a form of torture?
May 13th, 2009 at 2:49 pmWow, what a idiot.
It worked for the inquisition…
…just look at all the people who confessed to being heretics.
Republicans are scum.
May 13th, 2009 at 2:49 pmHey, John McRage, your Best Friend Forever Miss Lindseyseems to think torture is cool.
You know what they say, with friends like that . . .
May 13th, 2009 at 2:49 pmLindsey is just mad because he lost the Chihuahua look-alike contest to Gary Bauer
May 13th, 2009 at 2:50 pmIncest has been around since biblical times. That makes it a howling success.
May 13th, 2009 at 2:50 pm.
Q U E S T I O N:
With Graham logic like this, just how is he qualified to “support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion;” ?
… But none dare call it TREASON!
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May 13th, 2009 at 2:51 pmUm…determining if a woman was a witch by throwing her into the lake and seeing if she floats survived for a long time, too.
However, I do agree that if a practice has survived for a long time, it generally DOES work — although not always in the way it’s marketed.
For example, torture tends to work if the objective is to satify sadistic desires or fulfill some psychological need to be “tough”. It doesn’t seem to be the best way to get accurate actionable intelligence. But it’s served well for Cheney (and all the Cheneys through the centuries) to get his rocks off.
May 13th, 2009 at 2:51 pmThe reason these techniques have lasted for 500 years? Well, up until 1864 no one had the brass to do anything about banning torture. That’s half of the explanation right there.
You know, perhaps people have been continuing torture for all these years due to the idea that they think they can find loopholes like the ones the Bush Administration is looking for. If we don’t close those loopholes and put our foot down about these techniques, they’ll continue to remain open.
May 13th, 2009 at 2:52 pmCan someone please explain to me again how it is that the so-called party of religion and morality (the Republican party) can be so gung-ho on torture.
Sorry, I just can’t get past this basic contradiction.
May 13th, 2009 at 2:52 pmPerhaps Graham should go back a bit more to oh, almost 700 years ago, to around the time of the Inquisition.
You’ve heard of that, right Graham, the Inquisition? You know, where people admitted to things like witchcraft? And if the tortured person didn’t “talk” that meant that Satan must be aiding them, in which case they must be guilty even if they didn’t confess to anything? Talk about a no win situation! Yah, that “worked” really well…
I suppose it all depends on what you mean when you say it works I guess!
May 13th, 2009 at 2:52 pm.
R E M E M B E R:
People died because of these TORTURE sessions…
… That’s MURDER!!!
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May 13th, 2009 at 2:53 pmLindsey, how long has homosexuality been in use?
May 13th, 2009 at 2:53 pmI can justify anything with this guys reasoning.
May 13th, 2009 at 2:53 pmI remember when Graham and McCain were both strong advocates opposed to torture, including the so-called “enhanced interrogations.” Truly sad, how both have completely betrayed their own principles. Political ambition is truly a soul killer.
May 13th, 2009 at 2:54 pm.
Does Graham postulate that America is NOT a Nation of Law but instead a Nation that prefers to play “Follow the Leader”?
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May 13th, 2009 at 2:54 pmI’m pretty sure that sadism has a longer history. Perhaps Sen. Graham is not being sufficiently aggressive in rooting his party in history.
May 13th, 2009 at 2:54 pmSeems to me that if these techniques worked so well, then why do we still have terrorism and secret organizations with secret plots? Why is there still so much illegal activity going on that we can’t seem to do anything about?
I mean, if torture has been working for the last 500 years to give us information to stop plots and attacks and terrorists…why do these things continue?
May 13th, 2009 at 2:54 pmMay we waterboard you on Pay-per-view?
May 13th, 2009 at 2:54 pmwinddancer,
May 13th, 2009 at 2:55 pmBecause they want to play the Leader we should all follow.
I’m pretty sure torture goes all the way back, if you know what i mean, not just 500 years – republicani = idiots = neanderthal.
May 13th, 2009 at 2:55 pmThis will now become a new talking point for the GOP and their fellow travelers.
“Torture techniques have survived for about 500 years, apparently they work.”
May 13th, 2009 at 2:56 pmOther ancient practices that have worked and their “wimpy” counterparts:
rape vs. developing a relationship that includes sex
murder vs. negotiation, acceptance of limits
stealing vs. working for an extended time
lying vs. using logic, admitting to faults
Graham is grasping at straws.
May 13th, 2009 at 2:56 pmThis is awful. Is this what the Repugs want to defend? Unbeleivable. WTF?
May 13th, 2009 at 2:56 pmLindsay Graham’s brain has been around for half a century too, but there’s no evidence that it works…
May 13th, 2009 at 2:58 pmAt least we are making progress. It looks like the Republicans have dropped their ludicrous contention that the ‘enhanced interrogations’ were not torture.
May 13th, 2009 at 2:58 pmAs stupid as this man is – how has he survived this long? He’s the kind of guy you expect to qualify for a Darwin Award — maybe several.
May 13th, 2009 at 2:58 pm*
I watched this hearing today and was appalled by the way Graham backed the US doing torture all the time! He tried to make a case that torture as we did it did NOT fall under the Geneva Conventions article 3, because article 3 in his opinion and Cheeney’s applies to law enforcement not to nations.
I’m amazed he can actually go outside and face anyone after this performance. Graham, at this point, falls into the same criminal category as Chenney and his gang of thugs. He is a despicable man and should be treated that way..
May 13th, 2009 at 3:01 pmNote to Lindsey Graham: Dear idiot, the reason this torture technique has been around for 500 years is because SADISM HAS BEEN AROUND FOR 500 YEARS!!!
May 13th, 2009 at 3:01 pmSome of the info gathered from torture might be “good” but almost all is rubbish and completely unreliable.
Of course it doesnt matter one bit. Torture is illegal just like rape is illegal. Would Graham suggest making rape part of “enhanced interrogation techniques” if some small bit of information obtained through rape could be proven to be useful?
May 13th, 2009 at 3:02 pmThis is bad. Now Obama won’t release the photos. How bad could they be? Very, very bad.
May 13th, 2009 at 3:03 pmSo, is Lindsey Graham actually defending criminal activity?
May 13th, 2009 at 3:05 pmI fail to see how something that existed for “500 years” and illegal is being defended.
Dammit, I should have thought of that a few weeks back when I was caught doing 15 over the posted speed limit.
“Sorry officer, but alas, drivers have been exceeding the speed limit ever since the Model T was invented. So, no ticket for me, correct?”
Ww can prove torture works because its still around today…just as are wars.
/snark
May 13th, 2009 at 3:05 pmWe can also prove abstinence works — there are some 8 billion people on this planet
May 13th, 2009 at 3:06 pmyou know, he has a good point. adultery has been around for much longer, so i plan to argue to my fiancee that it must be a good thing.
murder, domestic violence, prostitution, homosexuality, drug abuse, political and religious oppression, and human sacrifice have been around since at least biblical times, so they must work, too, right?
May 13th, 2009 at 3:10 pmThe reason torture hasn’t died out is not because it works, it is because sadists haven’t died out. Torture and terrorism is really the same thing, crimes.
May 13th, 2009 at 3:11 pmI do like the fact that since the Bush reign has ended, his illegal activities have not gone silent and forgotten.
May 13th, 2009 at 3:11 pmIt’s in the news, EVERY SINGLE DAY!
“. . GOP Senator Lindsey Graham cited an infamous ABC News report from 2007 that said a terror suspect broke under minimal waterboarding, and suggested it undercut the claim that torture didn’t work.
But Graham didn’t appear to be aware that the report has since been debunked, and that ABC itself has since corrected the record.” cited by HuffPost [bold mine]
May 13th, 2009 at 3:11 pmI mean, one of the reasons these techniques have survived for about 500 years is apparently they work.
The delusion is bad in this one.
May 13th, 2009 at 3:11 pmPeople like Graham are beneath contempt.
The United States Supreme Court in Sosa v. Alvarez-Machain, said that the Universal Declaration of Human Rights “does not of its own force impose obligations as a matter of international law.”[144] However, the United States has a historical record of regarding waterboarding as a war crime, and has prosecuted as war criminals individuals for the use of the practice in the past.
In 1947, the United States prosecuted a Japanese military officer, Yukio Asano, for carrying out various acts of torture including kicking, clubbing, burning with cigarettes and using a form of waterboarding on a U.S. civilian during World War II. Yukio Asano received a sentence of 15 years of hard labor.
Got that Lindsey, prosecuted AS A CRIME resulting in a sentence 15 years of hard labor!!! And there you sit, parsing, sniveling, hemming and hawing about whether it was ok for us to do. HYPOCRITE!!!
May 13th, 2009 at 3:12 pm“Let’s have both sides of the story here. I mean, one of the reasons these techniques have survived for about 500 years is apparently they work.”
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Slavery, Senator, is another thing which has managed to survive for centuries — and some people in this country certainly must have thought that it likewise worked, given that they were willing to secede from the union and fight a war in order to defend it. However, nobody in his or her right mind would even dream of advocating that we resume that particular custom in this country — because the simple fact that a certain behavior has lasted the test of time does not by itself render that behavior practical or ethical.
May 13th, 2009 at 3:13 pmHow could this happen? Remember when Bush said we don’t torture? Now it’s, ‘It’s okay to torture if it gets results.’ What the Hell is going on? MSM is just as complicit as the Bush/Cheney regime.
May 13th, 2009 at 3:14 pmBTW,Obama broke his word”
The lawyer pushing for the release of photographs showing the harsh treatment of suspected terrorist detainees said President Barack Obama was backtracking on his word and commitment to transparency by reversing course and objecting to the release of those photos.
Jameel Jaffer, a chief litigator for the American Civil Liberties Union National Security Project, described Obama’s reversal as “very disappointing” during an interview with Fox News. San Stein at HuffPost
May 13th, 2009 at 3:14 pmWhy not? The Republican Party has become an overt criminal organization. When Bush was finally busted for illegal wiretaps, they brazenly defended that admitted criminal activity. This is no different. They are busted, so they are telling us how good it feels to break the law, and daring anyone to do anything about it.
May 13th, 2009 at 3:15 pmAnd I thought the cause was heavy handed, violent leadership! Thanks Grammy…
May 13th, 2009 at 3:15 pmMay 13th, 2009 at 3:16 pm
.
Dear Senator Graham,
To acknowledge history is one thing…
… But to deny it’s relevancy is another.
XXOO
Japan
.
May 13th, 2009 at 3:16 pmif the media won’t, then we have to maintain that the usefulness of torture cannot stand as a justification for it. wanda sykes, i think, had the best analogy, which has been mimicked quite a bit since saturday: defending torture on the ground that it “worked” is indistinguishable from defending robbing a bank on the ground that you were able to pay a lot of bills with that money.
and, to bring it home, under that analysis how could you ever find that torture is wrong if you presume that some good could conceivably come of it? and though i hate engaging in the “slippery slope” type of argument, wouldn’t this suggest that the police should disregard the fourth amendment because in so many cases warrantless searched can lead to good evidence against a criminal?
we as americans have already made the decision that we respect the constitution even when it provides protection to criminals who are clearly guilty. we as americans have already made the decision that torture is illegal, no matter what the results, and we have made the decision that it is not a defense to say that it worked or that the person who administered it was just following orders.
we as americans have to decide now whether we should let an administration get away with violating clear and unambiguous law. i, for one, see absolutely no good reason to do so.
May 13th, 2009 at 3:17 pm.
Dear Senator Graham,
What does HUBRIS mean?
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May 13th, 2009 at 3:18 pmMs Graham, Party of Pain & Palin, should be introduced to ‘The Rack’, perhaps.
As a new invention, it replaced the tired & outdated ‘drawing & quartering’ technique that used 4 horses to literally pull a man apart.
The Rack was much more fun for the S&M crowd. It allowed the stretching to be done at a slow pace, enabling all of Ms Graham’s 500 year ago foreskin-fathers to reach excitement levels only previously dreamed of.
Ms Graham, you are one sick phuck.
May 13th, 2009 at 3:19 pmI don’t know if torture works or not but I se in the WSJ that “Bed Bath and Beyond” has put an application for a space in the new Gitmo Mall set to be built by General Electric with part of the $1.25 billion they got from who knows where under the watchful eye of the new administration. It appears that the detainees have convinced Obama that they much prefer Gitmo to their own countries ways of handing prisoners and he has complied. Some were seen begging on their knees to the gaurds……the worst case the Chinese as the want NO part of Changi prison.
May 13th, 2009 at 3:20 pmPeople like Graham help keep humanity enslaved in conflict – because repeating the past horrors is how we should solve problems in the future.
History is not futures cure
May 13th, 2009 at 3:20 pmLindsey, stupidity has been around for thousands of years, yet morons like your parents keep popping more morons like you, and the people who keep re-electing you.
May 13th, 2009 at 3:21 pmI’m dumbstruck with how dumb that is.
May 13th, 2009 at 3:21 pmPitchforks and torches work!
May 13th, 2009 at 3:22 pm“Let’s have both sides of the story here,” Graham declared.
Ok then, there is Graham’s side of the story and then on the other side there is the WRITTEN RULE OF LAW!!!
May 13th, 2009 at 3:27 pmMr. Graham’s logic is indicative of a gross lapse in intelligence. Perhaps he needs to be tortured back to his senses!
May 13th, 2009 at 3:29 pmthen let lispy graham step up to the plate and get waterboarded for charity. and no, lispy, a golden shower at the charleston ramrod does not count.
May 13th, 2009 at 3:33 pmSlappyBastinado Says:
May 13th, 2009 at 3:20 pm
Got a link for that, Slappy? I know how bad you are at answering questions or defending anything you say, but give it a try, eh?
BTW, you do know that Gitmo is not just a prison, don’t you?
May 13th, 2009 at 3:33 pmThe reason that the Democrat’s congressional leadership signed off on waterboarding back in 2005 is probably because the issue didn’t resonate with average Americans at the time. One has to remember that America was in a dark place in late spring 2004, coming off of the death and desecration of the bodies of the American contractors in Fallujah, as well as the beheading of Nicholas Berg.
I say bring on these hearings that y’all are clamoring on for. I look forward to seeing that holier-than-thou New England blue-blood Sheldon Whitehouse go toe-to-toe with some of these CIA field officers. One thing is certain, those embarrassing loons on the fringe left will be as disappointed as those embarrassing loons on the fringe right.
May 13th, 2009 at 3:34 pmNo, Miss Lindsey…..torture does NOT work. You Rethuglican bozos just keep doing it because you’re sadistic,and not smart enough to think up something that works. The GOP has been consistent over the decades by having a hammer in its hand and treating every problem like a nail.
May 13th, 2009 at 3:35 pmAnd let’s not forget the obvious. Psycho-sexually speaking, torturing the helpless just plain TURNS PEOPLE ON! The optimal professional niche for such folks will always be the authoritarian realms of government and religion. With the Repugs, you get the worst of both.
May 13th, 2009 at 3:38 pmLindsey, Bush himself wanted war criminals prosecuted:
May 13th, 2009 at 3:38 pmhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyzty-UN3Yg
Zooey….I now part of the “new media” I make the news….its more fun that way……….
May 13th, 2009 at 3:38 pmI’m glad all the idiot politicians are based south of the border! This is mind blowing to me the HYPOCRITES in your goverment. When another nation tortures, we seek the death penelty, no excuses for taking orders and we punish to the full extent of the law. But when it comes to the US, the government feels it can’t go down that road??? WHY????? Becuase of the BUSH NAME OR THAT THE ORDERS CAME FROM THE HIGHEST OFFICE IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA(THE LAND OF THE FREE UNLESS WE TORTURE YOU)
WAKE UP AMERICA, GET YOUR RESPECT BACK OR YOU WILL BE KNOW THROUGH OUT THE WORLD AS THE BIGGEST HYPOCRITES…AND WHY SHOULD THE REST OF THE WORLD LISTEN TO YOU!!!!!
WE ARE WATCHING….AND WAITING TO SEE THE REAL MORALS OF THE UNITED STATES!!!
May 13th, 2009 at 3:39 pmDerek Nettles Says
“I look forward to seeing that holier-than-thou New England blue-blood Sheldon Whitehouse go toe-to-toe with some of these CIA field officers”
so, now one is “holier than thou” because they play by the rule of law? and by the way, skippy, can you prove whitehouse is a “{new england blueblood”? that title belonged to the guy he replaced who got his position in the senate when daddy died and yes, they were both repukies.
May 13th, 2009 at 3:39 pmSlappy, you’re a moron, and not a funny one. No one laughs with you, they are laughing at what a moron you are.
May 13th, 2009 at 3:40 pmor rather, it just shows the lowest depths and savagery of mankind.
May 13th, 2009 at 3:41 pmOkay, what authority did the “Democrat’s congressional leadership” have to “sign off” on a program authorized by the Executive branch?
What power would they have had to stop it?
Answer that before we go further.
Thanks.
May 13th, 2009 at 3:41 pmlispy graham gets all tingly at the thought of some wholesome S&M via torture, sort of along the same lines as the tingle he gets while watching jailhouse fantasy porn. sick freak
May 13th, 2009 at 3:41 pmSlappyBastinado Says:
Zooey….I (sic) now part of the “new media”
May 13th, 2009 at 3:38 pm
The illiterati…?
May 13th, 2009 at 3:42 pm500? Didn’t they torture Jesus in that Mel Gibson movie a long time before that? How’d that work out? Oh wait, that’s right, these guys think the lesson of the Passion is to hate Jews.
May 13th, 2009 at 3:42 pmIs Slappy wasted already?
May 13th, 2009 at 3:43 pmGet get out of the closet already Linseed. Stop being a flakey man.
May 13th, 2009 at 3:43 pmralph the wonder locust Says:
“Is Slappy wasted already?”
permanent brain damage from excessive teabagging would be my diagnosis
May 13th, 2009 at 3:45 pmNOLIESPLEASE………Sadly, I’m afraid you’ll have to wait a while longer. The million pieces the Bush Crime Family broke this country into will take a while to stitch back together, and as you can see by the MSM, we’re going to have to do it single handed as they seem to only want to advertise Vice Vader and Miss Lindsey’s whinings and lies. When a country has been raped as the United States has, it’ll be a while before we can get back on our feet.
May 13th, 2009 at 3:45 pmLiberace – you are one sick and hateful little man. SHUT UP.
If you like torture so much – move to North Korea.
May 13th, 2009 at 3:45 pmI don’t think Slappy knows Gitmo is actually the oldest overseas Naval base — that happens to be the location of a disgusting prison.
May 13th, 2009 at 3:46 pmHe must also feel the same way about slavery, seeing as how it has been around in human history even longer than torture.
And THESE people are our elected leaders?! Really?!
May 13th, 2009 at 3:56 pmLink? Are you aware that GE Capital is the biggest financier of major projects?
May 13th, 2009 at 3:56 pmBring on the Inquisition. Witches, invest in water wings. Slavery? The BuyBull says it’s cool. Congress needs to pass a law that the Earth is the center of the universe. We don’t need health care, invest in leeches. Horses will make a comeback. What’s that round thing? A wheel? The devil’s work.
How far back do these clowns want to go?
May 13th, 2009 at 4:02 pmLinseed says lets have both sides of the story then gives his 500 year old lopsided theory
May 13th, 2009 at 4:03 pmDragging women by their hair back to the cave works!
May 13th, 2009 at 4:05 pmThe idiocy of all these arguments is truly astounding. To think that in 2009, supposed intelligent men (and leaders elected by the people, no less), are arguing the merits of torture and its place in our democracy as a good and necessary thing.
They are running to save their hide, trying to defend indefensible positions, and all for what? To prove somehow that they are right, and those who don’t support this just don’t get it?
To all those who think torture is no big deal and even necessary – Cheney, Limbaugh, Hannity, Graham, et al – then let them be among the first to be racked, drawn, quartered, and left for the dogs and vultures.
If it was good enough for the 1500’s, then it’s good enough for today! And who said the Republicans aren’t ‘forward thinking?’
May 13th, 2009 at 4:05 pmWhile I haven’t read all of the comments, one thing that people are missing is that torture does work. It works to make the person being tortured say whatever the torturers want them to say regardless of whether or not it is true.
Most torture is designed not to get information, but for propaganda.
The Bush administration was more interested in coming up with excuses to invade Iraq and promote their political views and would do anything to produce the propaganda that they needed.
May 13th, 2009 at 4:06 pmWell, it wasn’t that long ago that there were cultures who believed sacrificing a virgin would mean the gods would smile and life would be good.
I wonder if they believed in torture?
May 13th, 2009 at 4:08 pmHow long have appendixes survived?
May 13th, 2009 at 4:09 pmIt’s certainly easier to outsmart Republican Graham or any Republican for that matter.
May 13th, 2009 at 4:09 pmOf course it works for what it DOES. That is getting people to say what you WANT TO HEAR. It works at getting false confessions. That isnt the same as getting good information.
May 13th, 2009 at 4:11 pmInstead of rebranding the opposing party, the RNC should pass a requirement for their members to wear robes with hoods.
May 13th, 2009 at 4:11 pmLefty Liberal
Well lefty had I read far enough to see your comment I would have saved my electrons. Yeah exactly that
May 13th, 2009 at 4:11 pmyeah… and murder and rape and pillage and assault also have worked for centuries — for the PERPETRATORS..
these Republicans are not only in deep political doodoo.. it looks like their brains are fried too….
man, what a bunch of clowns, I swear…..
May 13th, 2009 at 4:12 pmNo, Senator, the only reason these techniques have survived is that, generation after generation, the human race, to its everlasting disgrace, continues to produce sadistic and fearful little men like yourself.
May 13th, 2009 at 4:16 pmRethuglican logic boggles the mind. These people are complete and total idiots! They should not be allowed to participate society.
May 13th, 2009 at 4:19 pmGraham co-sponsored McCain’s bill supposedly barring torture. Now he defends torture, just as the evidence emerges that it never worked. He also cited a long-debunked story in support of his new, pro-torture position. This is the torture defenders’ point man in this highly visible hearing, and he has blown it in every way.
May 13th, 2009 at 4:23 pmWhen Graham sold his soul, the republicani shrank his brain to the size of a walnut.
May 13th, 2009 at 4:27 pmOh! Oh! I know some tried and true things that work!
1. Voter suppression. You can get elected to most any office if you get away with suppressing the votes of your opponent.
2. Robbery. You can get really rich robbing people if you just don’t get caught.
3. Slavery. Wow! This is a biggy! If you can get all your work done by people who don’t get paid a dime, you can make HUGE PROFITS!
4. Torture. It doesn’t work to get reliable information, but it allows sadistic people to get their jollies against people who aren’t Amurican.
This is fun! I think I’ll go find me a lawyer to tell me that I can legally do all those things, because no one seeks out a lawyer to tell them it is okay to do something they already KNOW is legal!
May 13th, 2009 at 4:30 pm——————————————————————————–
ralph the wonder locust Says:
——————————————————————————–
Derek Nettles Says:
The reason that the Democrat’s congressional leadership signed off on waterboarding back in 2005…
Okay, what authority did the “Democrat’s congressional leadership” have to “sign off” on a program authorized by the Executive branch?
What power would they have had to stop it?
Answer that before we go further.
Thanks.
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Hi Ralph- I was wrong to use the phrase “signed off”. You are correct in pointing that out because there’s a big difference in “signing off” and “speaking out”. Congressional Democratic leadership has spoken out against many war-time transgressions, 3 off the top of my head:
Abu Ghraib (goes without saying)
Pat Tillman
Haditha Murders (I believe I remember Murtha being out front on this).
My point is that it’s very hard to put war-time transgressions into context. When this story broke, I was as disappointed as the next concerned American when I heard that my country resorted to waterboarding to elicit intel from suspects. Couldn’t we win this war AND keep the moral high ground? It’s easy to ask that question within the relative comforts of our homes after the tide of the war itself had turned.
Regarding Sen. Whitehouse: Though I’m sure he’s not dumb enough to be a member himself, I find it hypocritical that he frequents country clubs that exclude membership to homosexuals and minorities. His popularity right now is soaring, but that man o’the people/ snob duality rubs me the wrong way.
May 13th, 2009 at 4:34 pmHard, yes. But necessary. And that context needs to always include our international obligations to treaties we have signed and to universal values we hold.
Proof? Link?
thanks.
May 13th, 2009 at 4:45 pmTorture does work—if you want false confessions.
May 13th, 2009 at 4:52 pmTWO WORDS – Michele Bachmann, Oops, Minnesota. That’s three.
May 13th, 2009 at 5:03 pmAnybody dumb enough to use the rational Linseed does is unqualified to be on the public payroll. Least of all the most exclusive club in America.
May 13th, 2009 at 5:04 pmAli Soufan the FBI Special agent testifying said:
May 13th, 2009 at 5:06 pmYes, it works if you want compliance, not if you wanted facts.
Compliance is agreeing to what is said…….not facts
Lindsey was just talking to CSPAN audience. He didn’t any value to the hearings.
Ms. Grahman will soon learn life’s lesson becareful will you say it could come back to you. Republcians forget these Bush/Cheney Polciy will be used against Americans in the future and all these reasons will hurt our country. President Obama has changed the policy back to were our
May 13th, 2009 at 5:12 pmLindsay Graham: Today’s “Profile in Weaseltude”
May 13th, 2009 at 5:18 pmExcept for the fact that most countries torture as a form of terrorizing the population and I guess, in that manner, it does work.
And then there’s torture as retribution. I guess it is pretty effective there too.
But, torture does not work to elicit actionable intelligence from a prisoner. And even if it did, it’s illegal, immoral and unethical and should never be done.
May 13th, 2009 at 5:35 pmTypical GOP…..
Because there’s alot of Republicans who don’t know how to govern and it’s easier to call them (Democrats) names (Democrat Socialist Party) than outsmart them.
Repubs, just give them enough rope……
May 13th, 2009 at 5:35 pmLets send graham overseas to one of those countries who use torture where if he dies they care less, not a tranning program that you know you wont get hurt doing it like the one the military used. Put grahan on the coward list like the rest of those chicken hawks.Are all Repucks crazy and cowards.
May 13th, 2009 at 5:44 pmThe Vice President is suggesting that there was good information obtained,
and ONLY the former vice president, which would lead me to believe that the memos confirming this belief only exist in his warped mind.
May 13th, 2009 at 5:47 pmrepublicans hate facts Says:
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Derek Nettles Says:
My point is that it’s very hard to put war-time transgressions into context. When this story broke, I was as disappointed as the next concerned American when I heard that my country resorted to waterboarding to elicit intel from suspects. Couldn’t we win this war AND keep the moral high ground? It’s easy to ask that question within the relative comforts of our homes after the tide of the war itself had turned.
What a DUM BASS STATEMENT. Who’s *HOME* was being INVADED AGAIN? And we already *KNOW* as we have *KNOWN* for DECADES that TORTURE DOESN’T *WORK*. We know that from the COMFORT of OUR HOMES and from the UNCOMFORTABLE BATTLE FIELD.
What *TIDE* of the *WAR* exactly? We had *ONE* attack on ONE BUILDING, *TWO* if you count the first WTC bombing. That’s hardly a WIDE SCALE WAR. If you want to talk about TIDE of WAR look at EUROPE or JAPAN during WWII and we talk about TIDES and INVASIONS and “COMFORT OF OUR HOMES”. What we had after 911 was a bunch of SCARED LITTLE P*SSIES known as REPUBLICANS who are so F*KKKING INSANE they started *BEING* the terrorists themselves… Then again, a RIGHT WING AL QAEDA MORON or a RIGHT WING TEABAGISTAN MORON are the SAME MORON. You’d *KNOW* that RIGHT? Just LOOK IN THE MIRROR – CONCERN TROLL…
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CapsLock all you want, PickelSniffer. No one hear cares what you have to say. EVER.
May 13th, 2009 at 5:55 pmWhat a Barbarian!
Pathetic!
May 13th, 2009 at 5:55 pmLindsey Graham is a Jag Officer………This is a disgrace to the profession!!!!!!!!!
May 13th, 2009 at 5:56 pmTorture works. That’s why Cristianism died with its creator, and Roman Empire is in full power yet.
May 13th, 2009 at 6:00 pmmaxamillion Says:
Lindsey Graham is a JagOff………
Sorry, I just hadda fix it…
May 13th, 2009 at 6:02 pmTorture does get people to admit to actions, you just don’t know if you are getting the truth.
If people were willing to admit to being witches under torture, I’m not sure how anyone could see it as a viable way to get honest answers.
It is a sloppy, time consuming and failed way to investigate.
May 13th, 2009 at 6:10 pmDerek Nettles @ 137, Don’t speak for “everyone here”, please.
I actually enjoy republicans hate facts posts. He brings a vigor that this site needs at times. He also puts trolls in their place which is what I enjoy the *MOST*.
May 13th, 2009 at 6:15 pmWas that intended to be pickeralsniffer or picklesniffer?
May 13th, 2009 at 6:24 pmTorture works great. Ask any Salem witch, she’ll say “Inquisitors minds want to know!”
May 13th, 2009 at 6:26 pmMr. Graham:
Prostitution and theft also survived the time as torture…but they are still illegal.
Just because a behavior or an act survived the time does not make it legal.
Your statement is a pathetic one,specially it is coming from a man who supposed to be a lawyer and a legistlator.
May 13th, 2009 at 6:51 pmInteresting. Nettles is inspired to respond within eight minutes when RHF unloads a broadside at him, but declines to offer a link to support his accusation that Sen. Whitehouse “frequents country clubs that exclude membership to homosexuals and minorities”.
May 13th, 2009 at 6:52 pmIt really is mind-bogglingly pathetic, isn’t it? When you consider that this man is a member of the US Senate and a trained military lawyer.
May 13th, 2009 at 6:54 pmSo Graham Crackers essentially is admitting that the US did torture and is OK with it???
May 13th, 2009 at 7:12 pmHey
May 13th, 2009 at 7:26 pmslaveLindsey, what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas.Isn’t there some sort of law or rule about members of Congress advocating illegal practices? If there isn’t, we need one.
May 13th, 2009 at 7:33 pmIndeed torture does work, I am at the screaming point…it is torture to listen to this bunch of old, fat, slobs spew absolutely stupid, inept justifications for something that people should be ashamed to be talking about let alone doing.
May 13th, 2009 at 9:02 pmThese folks are very Christian, next they’ll be looking to burn a few witches and sew scarlet letters on adulterers and adultresses..oh wait nahhh..that might come back and bite them.
I am glad that a high ranking Republican Senator has made the case for torture. The argument was concise and to the point. Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC) has provided this country with the conservative’s justification for this policy.
The Republicans are a perverted, godless bunch of wimps. This guy can’t call himself an American, can he?
May 13th, 2009 at 9:04 pmSimilar to the argument that was used by Graham’s ancestors to justify slavery.
May 13th, 2009 at 9:29 pmIt’s like they cultivate stupid.
Why? What’s stupid got going for it that you actually TRY to be stupider?
May 13th, 2009 at 10:28 pmI truly believe these guys are taking orders from Rush or some unidentified hand in denying the truth and the law. That or they are so evil that they actually believe that killing people in detention and giving billions in bonuses to billionaires is the right thing to do. They really don’t see how stupid they look.
May 13th, 2009 at 10:57 pmI am reminded of a friend who was doing basic cancer treatment research in the 70’s in Pennsylvania.
They found lots of compounds that would stop the cancer. I asked him why he was glum. “Well, these compunds do work. Problem is, they kill the healthy cells too.”
Same deal with torture (actually, it isn’t, since torture engenders false confessions, but for sake of rebutting the absurd “it works” argument, I’ll stipulate): It extracts things from the tortured. But it wounds the soul of the torturer, too (individually and as a national body).
May 13th, 2009 at 11:39 pmNobody has claimed that torture is not punative and effective for revenge so that is not a valid question. Civilized nations have no need for torture and should have no desire to torture. As is becoming clear, revenge is surfacing as the real reason. Bush wanted Saddam tied to al Qaeda so Bush could settle a score with Saddam for plotting an attempt on G H W Bush’s life.
May 14th, 2009 at 12:58 amSo the Spanish Inquisition worked they got all these Non Christians to denounce their own religion and join the catholic church………so what is the good intel that the Pope got out of these torture sessions?
May 14th, 2009 at 1:19 amThe Grand Obstructionist Party wants to rebrand the Dems as the Democrat Socialist Party. Perhaps the Party of No should be rebranded as the Republican Torture Party. And while the torture techniques “have survived for about 500 years,” does that mean they are worthwhile or even work? Sin, poverty, prostitution, child labor, sex crimes and domestic abuse have “survived” for even longer than 500 years, but does that mean these abhorrent practices should continue? Lindsay Graham is using a contorted logic that shows he is a stupid, stupid man. Future generations will have to do a psychological study of the pathology behind today’s GOP and its embrace of torture.
May 14th, 2009 at 4:43 amI knew it. The republic party is still stuck in Midieval times!
May 14th, 2009 at 6:57 am*Medieval ;-)
May 14th, 2009 at 6:58 amWhat a moron, it’s been around for a lot more than 500 years. As others have said, it’s not a very sophisticated way of interrogating someone. Graham just threw out 500 years as if he’s some sort of historian to make himself seem important and intelligent, of which he’s neither.
May 14th, 2009 at 7:32 amHa-ha. Reminds me of them looking for weapons of mass destruction. Why don’t they try praying instead of flaying. They say that’s been working for thousands of years. Ha-ha-ha.
May 14th, 2009 at 6:41 pmGraham is another idiot. Cancer, famine, war, and idiocy (vis a vis Graham) have survived more than five hundred years. We should work to rid society of these things and the Congress of folks such as Graham and his ilk. Graham should volunteer to be tortured before he puts his pathetic stamp of approval on such practices.
May 15th, 2009 at 3:56 pmWhat I find really amazing is that this clip actually came from Graham making the standard GOP assertion that if one piece of actionable intelligence was gained from torture, it “works” and was utterly justified. Yet, despite the absurdity of that logic, he actually managed to distract everyone by using even more ridiculous, brain-damaged logic. I’m actually afraid that this was intentional, like the not-so-cute girl that always hangs out with the ugly girl because it makes her look good enough to get a date. By using that asinine logic, I think they hope their less-absurd logic will look acceptable.
May 15th, 2009 at 7:32 pm