Obama adminstration reverses itself, won’t release detainee abuse photos.
By on May 13th, 2009 at 1:05 pm
Obama adminstration reverses itself, won’t release detainee abuse photos.
Last month, the Pentagon agreed to comply with a court order and release dozens of photos showing abuse of detainees by American captors. Now the White House has reversed course, and will object to the court order:
The president “believes their release would endanger our troops,” a White House official says, adding that the president “believes that the national security implications of such a release have not been fully presented to the court.”
Yesterday, conservatives were outraged about the potential release, claiming that the photos would incite future terrorists. Of course, at the very same time, they ardently defended the actual tactics depicted in the photos. Watch CNN’s report:
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Where is that spine of steel that Joe Biden was talking about?
May 13th, 2009 at 1:07 pm.
Dear America,
Pictures are worth a thousand words…
… But grave sites of family members killed by war last forever!
.
May 13th, 2009 at 1:08 pmFine , as long as a jury is allowed to see them !
May 13th, 2009 at 1:09 pm.
Q U E S T I O N:
Who needs pictures when the hillsides are littered with grave sites?
.
May 13th, 2009 at 1:11 pmThese photos should be released. As painful as it was to see prisoners with their genitals wired up, ravaged by dogs, stacked in human pyramids, and all the rest, it was important that the American people knew these actions were being carried out in our name. For our democracy to function we must have transparency.
May 13th, 2009 at 1:12 pmIf, as the right wing likes to claim, we did not torture, then there should be no problem releasing the photos. Unless, of course, the photos prove the right wing is lying.
May 13th, 2009 at 1:14 pmThe threat to national security is our having committed the act in the first place. Just a note to our republicans concerned about national security.
May 13th, 2009 at 1:15 pmhappily liber Says:
You’re totally irrelevant with your silly comments.
May 13th, 2009 at 1:16 pmI think we’ve seen all we need to see to know that the Bush Crime Family broke the law. Your demagogue Cheney has been confessing the crimes for weeks now.
right wing cowards support torture, as long as noone sees the pictures
the only reason cowards like CFP and happily think torture works, is that they are such cowards that torture WOULD work on THEM
May 13th, 2009 at 1:16 pm‘happily liberal’ – is Dr. Phil Astin writing your prescriptions, by any chance?
May 13th, 2009 at 1:17 pmoh great. more legitimacy for the right wing…
May 13th, 2009 at 1:17 pmcome to a show, happily, I’ll be happy to “discuss” it with you in person
you pansy little coward
May 13th, 2009 at 1:19 pmThose must be some grisly pictures.
May 13th, 2009 at 1:19 pmright wingers think America is too weak to defend herself without resorting to torture
they’d feel differently if they weren’t such pansy cowards
May 13th, 2009 at 1:19 pmObama adminstration reverses itself, won’t release detainee abuse photos.
- – I’m guessing this is about Stanley McChrystal, the new commander of Obama’s Afghanistan war and occupation. There is solid evidence that McChrystal played an active part in enabling torture in Iraq.
May 13th, 2009 at 1:20 pmi just seem tuff compared you you, happily
of course, so does a wet paper bag
May 13th, 2009 at 1:20 pmlooks like happily is making another pass at rush
May 13th, 2009 at 1:20 pmHe must have a good reason for this. Why did anyone take pictures anyway? What was the point?
May 13th, 2009 at 1:21 pmBut hasn’t the right wing argued all along that torture is necessary not only to gain information, but as a tool of intimidation to our enemies, who will fear the consequences of being our enemies? By removing torture, they argue, we “embolden” oour enemies by allowing them to say, “Look, if they catch you this is ALL they will do to you, and you won’t be tortured”.
That argument actually argues for releasing photos of torture so that the extent of what can occur to our enemies is KNOWN by them, thus increasing their fear of us and disinclining as many to join their ranks for fear (terror) of what will happen to them should they oppose us and get caught. (because the assumption is that they do not know for sure about torture, else the agrument against releasing the photos would be irrelevant).
But wait, the right ALSO argues that releasing such photos will “embolden” our enemies and increase their ranks by seeing how we will treat them if they get captured. (again, this assumes implicitly that the enemy does not know about the torture, because if they did it would “embolden” them with or without the pictures).
Which is it? Or is this clearly a case of a no-win situation?
(warning… tricky question involving facts)
May 13th, 2009 at 1:21 pmyeah, that’s what I thought, happily is MUCH too much of a coward to back up his BS
May 13th, 2009 at 1:22 pmUltimately, I don’t believe releasing the photos is up to President Obama. I think a federal court ordered the photos released and Obama wants the issue to go back to the courts.
May 13th, 2009 at 1:23 pm.
Oh bildobro,
It’s not an irrelevant question. It’s a point even you seem to miss. The hillsides are littered with grave sites of innocent victims of an illegal war produced by the former administration. Who needs photos when any Iraqi or Afghan can just go to the grave site of a lost loved one, instead, for their motivational recruitment tool?
You and your multi-personalities may call it a flip/flop, but calling it that does nothing to protect our troops who have to live in the conditions of an illegal war. You only serve to excite “The Base”. Sorta like OBL does in his “Homeland” and al-CIA-duh.
If the President of the USA is concerned about reducing “recruitment tools” he may wish to reconsider our presence in their “Homeland”.
.
May 13th, 2009 at 1:23 pmwhy do you think America is so weak, happily?
May 13th, 2009 at 1:23 pmOh yeah, I forgot about that. How bad is it when the pictures sicken the monster who ordered the torture. Oh wait, I forgot. It wasn’t torture.
May 13th, 2009 at 1:25 pmhappily liberal Says:
Not a chance, pal. Clean and sober, here.
In other words, he’s got you on his special medley – vicodin, percocet, adderall.
May 13th, 2009 at 1:25 pmProjection
May 13th, 2009 at 1:25 pmSo these photos are so bad that nobody is allowed to see them? I guess we just have to assume that the troops in question were involved in conduct far more heinous that what took place at Abu Ghraib. I think that type of stigma, and the hate that will result from it, puts American lives in jeopardy.
May 13th, 2009 at 1:25 pmpoor little right wingers, always so scared
May 13th, 2009 at 1:26 pmAs much as I wanted them to come out for ALL to see, I will give O the benefit of the doubt and can only pray that they will be released [all of them] in due time. But I thought the reason for their release was due to the court case, so what’s up with that?
May 13th, 2009 at 1:26 pmI just want the little pansy to explain his cowardice
May 13th, 2009 at 1:27 pmDick Cheney wanted them to hang inside his man-sized safe just for effect.
May 13th, 2009 at 1:29 pmSy Hersh sed that there is video from Abu Ghraib showing US military and contractors sodomizing Iraqi boys and girls. Kids.
Obama is right. That would certainly endanger our troops in Iraq. There’s only one thing to do:
Get them the hell out of there. Start up the planes. Pack it up. Now. Today.
Or, Obama…are you planning on a hundred-year stay, like your good friend John McCain? Maybe a million years?
I want that promised change–NOW. Lead, g*dd*mmit!
May 13th, 2009 at 1:30 pmBadmoodman,
Tillman’s parents want general’s record reviewed
Parents of slain NFL star call for review of general named to lead war in Afghanistan
LARA JAKES
AP News
May 12, 2009 23:13 EST
http://rawstory.com/blog/2009/05/tillmans-parents-want-generals-record-reviewed/
Double doh!!
May 13th, 2009 at 1:31 pmThink about this. They realize that we are left to imagine what is in those pictures. People can imagine some really awful things. The pictures must contain things worse than anyone can imagine.
May 13th, 2009 at 1:32 pmIts ironic that folks who accused Obama of defying the law are now for defying the law.
May 13th, 2009 at 1:34 pmRantingTommy Says:
poor little right wingers, always so scared
Yep. The party of Ronald Reagan, John Wayne, Charleton Heston has been reduced to a silly little cult made up of extremely frightened little children. Didn’t the GOP once represent the strong, brave American? Now, not so much, huh?
May 13th, 2009 at 1:35 pm.
Dear Gavin @#41,
The pictures will do what to Americans? But the policy to actually to do these things didn’t? Please parse for us.
.
May 13th, 2009 at 1:35 pmThis TP entry was a little short on info.
NBC News
updated 25 minutes ago
WASHINGTON – Defense and military officials tell NBC News that President Obama will seek to delay the release of hundreds of photos which reportedly depict the abuse of prisoners by U.S. military in Iraq and Afghanistan.
White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs is expected to announce Obama’s decision.
The Pentagon has said it will release the pictures this month.
Gen. Ray Odierno, the top U.S. military commander in Iraq met with Obama at the White House Tuesday to ask the administration not to release the photos. Defense officials say Odierno is “vehemently opposed” to the release because he fears it could create a widespread “backlash” against military forces in both war zones.
According to one official, “It would put a bullseye on the backs of our forces.”
According to military officials many of the photos are similar to the infamous prisoner abuse photos out of Abu Ghraib prison, but some of these photos reportedly include mug shots of prisoners who appear to have been badly beaten during their capture or interrogation.
The photos were gathered in the course of dozens of military investigations of prisoner abuse between 2001 and 2006. Pentagon officials say 400 individual servicemembers have faced disciplinary action, either criminal convictions or non-judicial punishment as a result of the investigations.
The American Civil Liberties Union has sought the release of the photos and won a lawsuit against the U.S. government before the federal appeals court in New York. The only legal option left to the government was to appeal the decision to the Supreme Court. Instead the Obama administration had earlier made the decision to end the appeals and release the photos.
Last week, the president met with his legal team and told them that he did not feel comfortable with the release of the photos because he believes their release would endanger our troops, and because he believes that the national security implications of such a release have not been fully presented to the court.
At the end of that meeting, the President directed his counsel to object to the immediate release of the photos on those grounds.
NBC’s John Yang and Jim Miklaszewski contributed to this story.
May 13th, 2009 at 1:35 pmlol, Proud admits he’ll only like Obama if he has no backbone, like Bush
Proud, you are one serious coward
May 13th, 2009 at 1:35 pmBush held hands with the Saudi prince and almost stuffed his tongue down his throat.
May 13th, 2009 at 1:36 pmDo you still stand by your accusation of war crimes by the Bush administration that you made yesterday?
May 13th, 2009 at 1:36 pm.
Dear Proud,
When you said, “Obama bows not only to the Saudi’s but to the power of the right,” that’s a bad thing? But when Bush kisses and holds hands with that Prince and bows to the Radical Right, that’s a good thing?
p.s.
What’s a hypocrite?
.
May 13th, 2009 at 1:37 pmIt really pisses me off that even President Obama thinks we as American can’t handle the truth like the grown-ups I thought we were. The excuse being given is pretty lame, given the fact that hundreds of pictures from Abu Graib have already been released….Obama is acting like George W. Bush, or even worse…Cheney!!! I’m so disgusted~!!!
May 13th, 2009 at 1:37 pmThose pictures must be really, really awful.
May 13th, 2009 at 1:38 pmIt was just reported on MSNBC that General Odierno successfully lobbied President Obama to try to keep the pictures from being released. First reports tends to lack all the facts. I know the General met with Obama yesterday. And really, do we need to see more? I think what has already come out is more than enough. Did anyone watch the torture hearings today? Ms Lindsey Gramham was very aggressive, but did make some good points.
May 13th, 2009 at 1:38 pmhappily liberal Says:
Soory, that is not a diversion. Or, if you insist it is, then please, by all means, EXPLAIN how it is. It is an on-topic comment.
Does the enemy know that we torture? What does that do for their recruitment? How would the release of known and admitted photos of torture improve their knowledge that we torture?
How can their knowledge that we torture both “embolden” them AND act as a deterrent?
May 13th, 2009 at 1:39 pmPresident Obama needs to find out that being politically expedient will do him no good. We need to start telling our congresscritters and senators that we will not support them if they don’t actively work to rid our nation of torture and torturers. Obama got elected with the support of small donors, we can throw him out just as easily. He would do well to remember what happened to LBJ…
May 13th, 2009 at 1:39 pmhappily, the ball-less right wing coward, spouts:
“help me! I’m scared!”
May 13th, 2009 at 1:40 pmSame thing…
May 13th, 2009 at 1:40 pmhappily, would you like syrup on your ROFFLMFAO!?
May 13th, 2009 at 1:40 pm“If, as the right wing likes to claim, we did not torture, then there should be no problem releasing the photos. Unless, of course, the photos prove the right wing is lying.”
We know those photos are proof of lies as well as the destroyed CIA tapes.
I guess I really don’t need to see torture photos but I damn sure hope they are retained for future prosecutions.
BTW- CFP…you’re truly an a$$hole. Obama gives in to reightwing pressure and you spit in his face for it.
May 13th, 2009 at 1:40 pmLeeHope Says:
It really pisses me off that even President Obama thinks we as American can’t handle the truth like the grown-ups I thought we were.
Is it possible that it’s not Americans that Obama is worried about here? How would you feel if you saw pictures of an American soldier getting raped?
May 13th, 2009 at 1:41 pmIn a nutshell: we can’t show people these pictures of what we did, because it would piss them off so much, they’ll want to blow us up.
Thanks again, Bush administration.
May 13th, 2009 at 1:41 pmhappily liberal Says:
Yep. Not a single progressive has the balls to criticize obama. LOL!
Only when he does something we don’t agree with. What are you, a little kid? I want all the pics released. Most progressives want the pics released. That makes us critical of Obama’s refusal to release them. You are an idiot, aren’t you? Don’t you have a table to hide under?
May 13th, 2009 at 1:41 pmWouldn’t want a photo showing brutal torture that had been documented and subsequently redacted.
I mean hell, if the photos show a murder in process they might actually be up for an investigation.
No wait, they were told that it was legal.
I think one of the very big questions is:
May 13th, 2009 at 1:41 pmWhat were they trying to do with it ?
Okay, so cheney wanted to try to tie aq to Iraq, fine, that’s one. There’s got to be other reasons, and big ones.
9-11 has got to be in there somewhere.
LeeHope Says:
——————————————————————————–
It really pisses me off that even President Obama thinks we as American can’t handle the truth like the grown-ups I thought we were. The excuse being given is pretty lame, given the fact that hundreds of pictures from Abu Graib have already been released….Obama is acting like George W. Bush, or even worse…Cheney!!! I’m so disgusted~!!!
I doubt the President cares what you think. His priority is how this will affect the soldiers in the field. Apparantly General Odierno’s concern trumps your curious lust to view further abuse. Haven’t you seen enough already.
May 13th, 2009 at 1:42 pmAPEC not OPEC Says:
——————————————————————————–
It was just reported on MSNBC that General Odierno successfully lobbied President Obama to try to keep the pictures from being released. First reports tends to lack all the facts. I know the General met with Obama yesterday. And really, do we need to see more?
Yes, we need to see what has been done in our names. Otherwise idiots like the trolls on this thread will continue to lie about torture. We’re better than this. As a country we are better than this, and the progressive movement is better than this. If this is what happens when Obama is confronted with the choice between what’s right and what’s easy, to hell with him.
May 13th, 2009 at 1:42 pmThanks for the response, bildobro.
You just confirmed for everyone that you are a fraud.
So, how’s India?
May 13th, 2009 at 1:42 pmVasagi Says:
In a nutshell: we can’t show people these pictures of what we did, because it would piss them off so much, they’ll want to blow us up.
Thanks again, Bush administration.
I hate to say this, but Obama just bought the store. it’s his pottery barn now.
May 13th, 2009 at 1:44 pmYes, but not torture.
May 13th, 2009 at 1:44 pmThe soldiers in the field are having to steal water from contractors, such as KBR, that are supposed to be distributing it.
May 13th, 2009 at 1:45 pmi’m glad of this…
it means there will be less snuff porn out there…
too many sickos as it is…
May 13th, 2009 at 1:45 pmdon’t worry matt, I’m just calling out happily on his obvious cowardice
he’s too much of a pansy to back it up
May 13th, 2009 at 1:46 pmWell, this just proves, even further, that GWB lied when he said America doesnt torture because if it wasnt torture it wouldnt affect the troops safety.
May 13th, 2009 at 1:46 pmshoeless Says
May 13th, 2009 at 1:32 pm
Think about this. They realize that we are left to imagine what is in those pictures. People can imagine some really awful things. The pictures must contain things worse than anyone can imagine.
_____________________________________________________________
Exactly. And just the fact that we possess pictures too awful to release WOULDN’T put our troops in danger?
Fortunately, President Obama is treading carefully on this one. And I believe that because the photos’ existence is known, the photos themselves will follow eventually. I suspect they will be carefully packaged in a kit that includes well-crafted verbiage about how this is what we did once (without saying in so many words “under Bush” but certainly implying that) but we don’t do it anymore. And that marketing has to sound convincing to the rest of the world.
May 13th, 2009 at 1:46 pmhappily liberal Says:
Yep. Not a single progressive has the balls to criticize obama. LOL!
Fine–you want it? You got it. I criticize the Obama Administration for backtracking on this. They should have weighed the pros and cons before coming to this decision.
Now, I criticize you, HL, for instantly hopping on the “flip-flop” platform, instead of expressing gratitude that things were seen your way. What are you, a preschooler? Grow up.
May 13th, 2009 at 1:47 pmAny way, Al Qaeda will just promise more virgins and all this nonsense about photos will settle back down into the cesspool known as DC
May 13th, 2009 at 1:47 pmCageyCretin,
May 13th, 2009 at 1:47 pmHappily is upset for being called out for the name-jacking, sexist pig of a homophobe he is. Not to mention how he has threatened to commit a Felony by hacking into T.P. and shut it down.
APEC not OPEC Says:
I doubt the President cares what you think. His priority is how this will affect the soldiers in the field. Apparantly General Odierno’s concern trumps your curious lust to view further abuse. Haven’t you seen enough already.
Quit hiding behind the troops you coward. You’re no better than the germans who lived downwind of the concentration camps, who saw train after train roll in and no one leave, who smelled the buring bodies and ignored it, who, after the war said “we had no idea!” bite me you coward. And that goes for any progressives who aren’t willing to speak up. Shame on us all.
May 13th, 2009 at 1:47 pm!
it’s an anonymous blind damn blog.
what good is it turning it into a 4th grade gym class… …?
discuss.
May 13th, 2009 at 1:48 pmpurple, happily is just showing his true motivation: hate and fear of Obama
he isn’t bright enough to actually understand the issues, but the radio told him to hate Obama, so he does
May 13th, 2009 at 1:49 pmMay 13th, 2009 at 1:49 pm
Happily take note:
May 13th, 2009 at 1:49 pmProgressives wait for the facts
Then express ourselves
Not a good start, Obama. Caving to the Reichpublicans makes you look weak. When you make a decision, STICK TO IT!
May 13th, 2009 at 1:50 pmI wouldnt worry about happily hacking anything
He is obviously too intellectually challenged to understand networks, routers, servers, and security
May 13th, 2009 at 1:50 pmTo be quite honest, I’m sort of happy they won’t be released. I can’t imagine what those detainees had to experience and I hope everything does come to light but it does worry me that releasing them could be detrimental to the troops. I know I pointed out yesterday that these aren’t the first but idk. As long as they get used against the morons who carried it out.
May 13th, 2009 at 1:50 pmWell, this is disappointing. I didn’t understand why he agreed to release them in the first place. We already knew what happened there. But to agree to release them and then to reverse himself, all President Obama has done is to validate the right wing talking points. Why in the name of god did he do that?
May 13th, 2009 at 1:51 pmStratRat: Don’t you have a table to hide under?
He prefers his mommy’s skirt.
May 13th, 2009 at 1:51 pmHave you noticed that even the stupid trolls have given up their denial that the prisoners were tortured? Yesterday, Proudtroll went so far as to accuse the Bush administration of war crimes. Of course, today he won’t talk about it, but you can’t put toothpaste back in the tube.
May 13th, 2009 at 1:52 pmhappily liberal Says:
instead of expressing gratitude that things were seen your way.
Correction. I could give a rats ass if obama releases them or not. Next?
And we could give a rats ass what you think. Next?
May 13th, 2009 at 1:52 pmWhy are trolls giddy and gloating about this? This is a despicable issue for the US, no matter how you slice it. Trolls are party first always.
May 13th, 2009 at 1:53 pmkaty Says:
i’m glad of this…
misscoleopteramolly Says:
Exactly. And just the fact that we possess pictures too awful to release WOULDN’T put our troops in danger?
I think you two are wrong on this. We’re supposed to be better than this. It’s not enough to say “mistakes were made” and move on. Without a full accounting of what was done IN OUR NAMES it will happen again. Torture is already being debated by “serious” people, by our leaders. Our country is weaker today than it was yesterday, and tomorrow it will be weaker than it is today, because we aren’t strong enough to hold those accountable for this horror. We’re no better than saddam, bin laden, the shah, pol pot, hitler and stalin. just give us time.
May 13th, 2009 at 1:53 pmpoor little happily, just another cowardly right wing sissy, afraid of everything
he thinks torture works because it would work on his pansy little behind
of course, by “work”, I mean, he would confess to anything and everything and even make some sh!t up just to get it to stop
May 13th, 2009 at 1:53 pmNoting some tone here. I do not personally want to see these photos. Not a single one.
I DO want them in the public domain so that they can get into the hands of people who can prosecute and so that the documentation of systematic torture can be brought to light and criminal investigations and possible civil lawsuits can begin.
If they are not torture, then they are nothing to fear. They are CLEARLY depictions of systematic torture. We cannot try to hide the fact that our government (not parties — government) condoned if not directed torture. Everyone involved at any level need to be investigated and prosecuted if they have criminal culpability in the acts. We must accept that these deeds were done, and then act to ensure that they will not occur again. If not, our country will never recover, and will eventually go the way of the Roman Empire. They, too, thought that they were THE S#IT, numero uno in the world. But corruption and lack of morals will destroy from within.
May 13th, 2009 at 1:54 pmIts crazy.
First they say torture stops terrorist attacks
So they take pictures and videos of torture
Then they say torture makes our troops less safe because of those photos.
Bizzarro World
May 13th, 2009 at 1:55 pmAnd even more Bizzar is that Abu Ghraib photos were released during the Bush admin and not a wingnut shrieked that it made our troops less safe
May 13th, 2009 at 1:56 pmSo Obama is objecting to a court order on the grounds that releasing the photos could expose US troops to further danger.
1) We have learned that knowledge of the Bush administration instigated torture has served as a tool for recruitment and revenge by Iraqis and others.
2) If the Bush administration hadn’t tortured in the first place, this would not be an issue.
3) The Obmam administration;s concern here is for the relative safety of the troops.– a noble concern that Bush et al disregarded when they not only began their tortur program but exported to Abu Ghraib (and Afghanistan) via General Miller.
4) It is incumbent on the obama administration to avoid further endangering our troops in the war that was handed to him by George “Mission Accomplished” and I’ll be sprinting to the finish” Bush.
5) It is also incumbent on President Obama and the Congress to make public all relevant evidence regarding the Bush policy of torture so that the American public has the most complete understanding of what was done ‘in their name’ and so that US AND International law is demonstrably upheld and that it prevails.
6) It is incumbent on the COURTS, over which the Obama administration has no authority, to decide the merits of the objections put forth.
7) It is incumbent upon American citizens who value the rule of law to demand that no relevant evidence be withheld in this matter.
It seems to me the grounds for the White House objection are reasonable, but it is up to the courts to determine whether they override the public interest.
Just as long as the evidence isn’t sealed, this apparent ‘reversal’ looks a lot like the practice of sound legal argument made with consideration of the real human, rather than political, consequences that are at stake–without any clear attempt to comprise the legal process or to abuse executive power.
May 13th, 2009 at 1:57 pmhappily is just mad that we have a thoughtful President that considers all options and facts before making a decision
intelligence is just one more item on a long list of things that happily fears
May 13th, 2009 at 1:57 pmOkay, lets try a little logic here.
Were photos that make our troops less safe made public under Obama? No.
Were photos that make our troops less safe made public under Bush? Yes.
May 13th, 2009 at 1:58 pmFirst Bush denied the illegal wiretaps and the Bush minions argued for years that he would never do such a thing. Then when he was caught and admitted it, they all forgot the denials and told us that illegal or not, the wiretaps were necessary.
Then Bush denied that they tortured, and once again, the Bush drones insisted that the ‘enhanced interrogations’ were not torture. Now, they have finally given up that pretense, and have moved on to defending the use of torture.
May 13th, 2009 at 1:59 pmhappily liberal Says:
Correction. I could give a rats ass if obama releases them or not. Next?
Oh, I think you do have an opinion on the release. I think your standing here would increase somewhat if you were to enlighten us. Please speak your mind about the policy.
May 13th, 2009 at 2:00 pmSo happy is happy that Obama did something he wishes Bush had done.
The power of the right!!!
LMAO
May 13th, 2009 at 2:00 pmBobwurst Says:
Yes, we need to see what has been done in our names. Otherwise idiots like the trolls on this thread will continue to lie about torture.
Although I basically agree with you, and reacted badly initially when seeing this headline, I really don’t think seeing gruesome pictures would stop the trolls from lying about, well, anything!
The trolls who lust for violence would get their jollies.
May 13th, 2009 at 2:01 pmThe trolls who are bitter and twisted would probably cheer the torturers.
The trolls who think that Americans are better than anyone else on the planet, who don’t care what the world thinks of us, would be unaffected since, well you know, back to how Americans are superior-they’d probably think that even if the one tortured didn’t have any useful information, well it was worth a try just in case. They are just brown foreign people who speak a funny language anyway. Right trolls?
Go on, HL. On the spot. Tell us; if you were President, would you release the photos? Yes or no.
May 13th, 2009 at 2:01 pmIt was the ACLU who won the court order to have the photos released in the first place. Not the Obama administration. Obama is now blocking the court order where he said he wouldn’t before. A flip/flop? Yes, but a somewhat understandable one.
(Hey reightwing nuts…the ACLU is your REAL enemy. OB did ya a favor.)
May 13th, 2009 at 2:02 pmToothpaste, back in tube…….
See, your not getting it, the toothpaste is Dubya, it was under his time in office that Abu Ghraib and torture became public…that you cannot put back in a tube, even with Obamas change of decision!!
May 13th, 2009 at 2:03 pmSince its apologists relish the idea of torture (of torturing others, not being tortured) these photographs would feed their appetite for sadism.
But the contradiction in the so-called ‘conservative’ position is obvious: it’s okay to do torture, and let the world know you do, and that –somehow?–won’t incite reprisals by ‘terrorists’ but will ‘keep America safe’: but seeing pictures of the torture will incite them to take revenge?
Pleeease! Of course it may mean they think other people in the world are too dumb to acquire knowledge, but can be moved by pictures…
May 13th, 2009 at 2:04 pmYou really don’t have that analogy concept down, do you?
May 13th, 2009 at 2:04 pmPoor Lappy Hiberal, just doesnt understand his skewered logic
May 13th, 2009 at 2:05 pmAnd this whole “Stick to it” theme… I do not agree. It is the unintelligent who form an opinion, then stick to it no matter what other evidence or facts are brought forward.
An intelligent being will alter their viewpoints based on new verifiable information.
Small minds require one idea and no alteration from that idea. “Make a decision and stick to it, NO MATTER WHAT” is the battlecry of a weak mind.
Thinking requires that one accept the input of new data, and reformulation of thoughts based on the influx of new data.
I prefer a leader that is capable of thinking. That is why i have never voted Republican.
May 13th, 2009 at 2:05 pmFried Yer Tomato
May 13th, 2009 at 2:05 pmHe doesn’t understand how an analogy works. I guess he thinks you can make one by comparing random unrelated thoughts.
May 13th, 2009 at 2:06 pmhappily believes the same think on Wednesday that he did on Monday, no matter what happened on Tuesday
(apologies to S. Colbert)
May 13th, 2009 at 2:06 pmProud, you have no point other than you hate Obama because the radio tells you to
You don’t understand policy, as evidenced by your ignorant postings
May 13th, 2009 at 2:08 pmGit yer pitchforks here!
May 13th, 2009 at 2:08 pmYou’re right Proud. Remember it come election time.
May 13th, 2009 at 2:08 pmReally, who ever heard of a doorbell that just goes Ding!
May 13th, 2009 at 2:09 pmTo ‘happily’ who doesn’t sound very happy, even with all that hysterical laughing he does:
American credibility – down the tubes.
Does that make you happy?
May 13th, 2009 at 2:10 pmProud, do you still say the Bush adminstration committed war crimes, like you did yesterday?
May 13th, 2009 at 2:10 pmThe political, moral, and economic mess created by the Bush/Cheney Regime will take 1,000 years to clean up.
May 13th, 2009 at 2:10 pmYeah, I believe this is disappointing news. There needs to be transparency on these issues, and even though they’re uncomfortable to confront, they would not endanger troops any more than flying drones that bomb hundreds of civilians, inciting them to more radicalism and anti-US fervor.
What’s sad is that the childmind trolls on here- don’t understand that this site and many commenters are critical of many of this administration’s policies. That their sad and dying party has left them so bitter that they go onto progressive blogs to ‘gloat’ when a contentious issue is being discussed, and that’s just sad.
May 13th, 2009 at 2:10 pmSo this means Limbaugh wants Obama to fail because hes a racist..that we knew.
May 13th, 2009 at 2:11 pmAm I missing something here? Aren’t these photos evidence of criminal conduct? Shouldn’t there be an investigation and prosecution of the people involved?
May 13th, 2009 at 2:11 pmhappily liberal,
read #113.
Try to comprehend what I’ve written there. I don’t claim it to be definitive; it’s just my thoughts and perspectives presented as coherently as I could manage.
I like to think of it as an example of making an effort to understand and discuss a subject with a modicum of reflection rather than just blurting out talking points or gainsaying.
May 13th, 2009 at 2:11 pmGen. Ray Odierno, the top U.S. military commander in Iraq met with Obama at the White House Tuesday to ask the administration not to release the photos. Defense officials say Odierno is “vehemently opposed” to the release because he fears it could create a widespread “backlash” against military forces in both war zones.
According to one official, “It would put a bullseye on the backs of our forces.”
According to military officials many of the photos are similar to the infamous prisoner abuse photos out of Abu Ghraib prison, but some of these photos reportedly include mug shots of prisoners who appear to have been badly beaten during their capture or interrogation.
I myself think the photographs should be released, but after reading this, I believe President Obama wants to give the military the benefit of the doubt. Here’s an instance where he is heeding the information from the experts, whereas W would have just said, “F**k you!” and plowed ahead. Perhaps Obama is displaying that dread word “empathy” here?
May 13th, 2009 at 2:14 pm*oops, my bad–I didn’t read the full story.
May 13th, 2009 at 2:15 pmWell, barring Proud from being the same user as happily liberal, I’m at least glad to see he has an opinion on matters, even if they don’t agree with the opinions of the people here. Yes, President Obama has some military-related matters to take care of, but I feel he’s done the correct thing by keeping Gates during the transition.
Barring any major hurdles, Gitmo will be closed. The Iraq withdrawal will occur. Gates’ replacement will be named. These are things that will happen during President Obama’s term in office. I sincerely hope we will also see a pullback on wiretapping and resolution in Afghanistan.
Thank you for your view on the situation, Proud. At least you are unlike HL in which you have something to say about the issue.
May 13th, 2009 at 2:18 pm.
So bildobro,
If you don’t care either way, then why the stance that Obama’s a flip/flop?
.
May 13th, 2009 at 2:21 pmThat’s what I thought you would say. You are so dimwitted and twisted that you didn’t even realize what you had done. You told us how well the use of torture by the Bush administration had worked. Then you told us that torture is illegal.
That is an accusation of an illegal act known as a war crime.
May 13th, 2009 at 2:21 pmPresident Obama, – a man I worked very hard to get elected – seems to be alienating his base as well as the left-leaning independent voter. No matter how much he appeases the right wingers, they’ll NEVER vote for him. WHAT’S LEFT MR. PRESIDENT?
May 13th, 2009 at 2:23 pmProud,
And Hitler gave exception speeches, too?
You do know that during Nuremberg, the USA took the position that even legal authorities who collude to act with a sense of injustice using their titles and responsibilities as the Legal guardians of Justice is also criminal…
… And the USA won that point, too.
Are you gunning to position yourself to say that legislators and DOJ lackeys have cover to usurp the US Law, International Law and Treaties because of their power positions?
… REALLY?
.
May 13th, 2009 at 2:25 pmDoes this meant you’re ready to get back to attacking him for the mustard choice?
May 13th, 2009 at 2:25 pmProud says:But don’t let your hatred of Pres Bush and the military cloud your thinking.
No, we don’t hate FORMER Pres Bush (LOVE that prefix)and the military……….we just hate what he DID to the military. Maybe now we can have some compassionate thinking where before it was just “Git ‘em, Kill,Kill,Kill!”
May 13th, 2009 at 2:26 pm.
Dear bildobro,
How’s the Aussie wife?
Where do you fit her in that cubicle call-room space you call an office?
How’s India today?
.
May 13th, 2009 at 2:27 pmSo is it your contention, Proud, that the lack of a trial proves that no crime was committed?
May 13th, 2009 at 2:28 pmRe: #122
Yes or no, happily liberal? That’s all I’m asking.
May 13th, 2009 at 2:28 pmMust of been some really awful photos.
Guess the repubuscum can relax now…
…oh, wait…now they will be upset of over this.
Fcukoff HL
May 13th, 2009 at 2:28 pmCan you elaborate for us on exactly what power to approve or disapprove any of these techniques was held by any Democrat in 2003 or even 2005 or 2006?
Thanks.
May 13th, 2009 at 2:30 pmMay 13th, 2009 at 2:31 pm
Proud said the Bush administration had committed war crimes.
May 13th, 2009 at 2:34 pmLast I heard neither political party can approve breaking the law.
We need to face up to the facts and take the consequences = our democracy is at risk.
May 13th, 2009 at 2:34 pmProud, it doesnt matter if the photos are released or not. Its painfully clear that the Bush admin lied about torture saying America doesnt torture.
May 13th, 2009 at 2:35 pmI concur with Ralph on this one at #160, as it is a major defense of conservatives for the sanctioning of torture, used here by Proud. It’s a question that bears repeating:
Can you elaborate for us on exactly what power to approve or disapprove any of these techniques was held by any Democrat in 2003 or even 2005 or 2006?
May 13th, 2009 at 2:36 pmI guess this is Change We (All) Can Believe In.
I did not vote for Obama.
I did not votefor McCain.
I did not vote for Clinton.
I voted for McKinney.
Some things I will hold against Obama:
the FISA vote
the fawning speech to AIPAC when he garnered the nomination
most of his cabinet
continuing this fraudulent “war on terror”
NOT prosecuting the ENTIRE Bush Admin. for War Crimes
now This.
May 13th, 2009 at 2:36 pmProud told us that the Bush administration had tortured yesterday.
May 13th, 2009 at 2:37 pmHow bad can the pictures be? Yesterday Liz Cheney told the world that “we didn’t torture”.
But if they are bad then they need to be seen by all of us. Why, because we are all complicit. We, every one of us, allowed it to happen. In France and Germany and most countries people would take to the streets for much less than we endured under Bush. We should have taken to the streets after the election was stolen from Al Gore and not rested until he was given his hard won election.
Today ASU refuses to give President Obama an honorary degree while he’s speaking to them. This is a slap in the face to him and to all of us who elected him President. And we, especially the folks nearby should be rallying because of this insult.
If these photos make us less safe, and by us I mean even the soldiers, then so be it. Me made our bed and we should lie in it. Maybe eventually we’ll all get some courage to take the country back. Obviously we can’t leave it up to one man or the likes of Reid and Pelosi.
May 13th, 2009 at 2:37 pmYesterday Liz Cheney told the world that “we didn’t torture”.
Then she should be for releasing the photos..
May 13th, 2009 at 2:41 pmShe’ll have to check with daddy and Rove and then she’ll get back to us.
May 13th, 2009 at 2:44 pmWe shouldn’t even be in Iraq and Afghanistan. I can’t believe after 6 years we’re still there.
May 13th, 2009 at 2:46 pmWait a minute! I know why we’re there! I military contractors are raking in the bucks! And Congress has them in their back pockets for re-election.
Meanwhile this country, continues to go down the toilet. Just read the econonic reports. Ever notice how they release the job reports on Friday. So noone will notice?’
We are living in a Military Economy, now.
Reinvestigate 9/11!
May 13th, 2009 at 2:49 pmObama, Holder, Geittner, Penetta and the rest of the ilk are nothing more than a “POS” pure and simple! Or, to put it another way, Obama is without question “more of the same” and basically a gigantic “fraud” that many Americans believed would “do the right thing” for this country! I have ZERO respect for this man, as well as his criminal co-conspirators, Bush/Cheney!!
May 13th, 2009 at 2:54 pmThe president listened to reich wing whining about how it would endanger our troops in the field if we released pictures about the war crimes we have committed. Now they are laughing because the President has listened and realized that showing (at this time) documented proof to the world that the US used torture would indeed fuel the anger of the other side.
In essence they are laughing that because of the atrocities done under the Bush watch we would enrage the rest of the world, the President has to exercise some prudence in order to protect our troops.
They are proud of their dirty work.
May 13th, 2009 at 2:58 pmDo the pictures really show Cheney sodomizing little boys?
Sorry, I take that back; it was Druggie Limpballs!
May 13th, 2009 at 2:59 pmProud Says:
What war crimes, I must have missed the trial. O’ thats right there won’t be any prosecutions. Every thing done was approved by both the Dems and Republicans.
So… no trial means no crime? You DO know that that position is untennable and illogical — in fact, it implies that no crimes are ever committed, because a trial occurs at some point after the crime… possibly years after.
And, the approval of either or both political parties or the parties representatives implies that there was no crime? So, a political party has the authority to declare an act legal or not, and ignore anything resembling a lawful process (such as, oh, say, investigations, trials, etc.)?
Well, it is not unexpected to see the same measure of lockstep obstructionist propoganda and consistent attempts to poison the well concerning the president of the United States coming from our resident trolls.
President Obama deserves AT LEAST as much time as I gave G.W. Bush before I start looking at him with a staunchly critical eye. Of course our good ol’ “non-judgemental” trolls (assuming they claim christianity, that is) made THEIR decisions about President Obama’s course in office long before he ever took his oath of office. And, true to their small minds, will hold that position until they die, regardless of facts. Sad, really.
Must go.
Play nice.
May 13th, 2009 at 3:00 pmYe of faith, the worst is yet to come! Prepare thy self as the Messiah morphs.
May 13th, 2009 at 3:01 pmFine. Don’t release the pictures. Don’t release the soldiers and contractors involved, either. Punish any criminal acts involving those pictures, without hiding behind the same “oh war is a terrible thing” excuse.
War will never be an excuse for raping (or threatening to rape) kids just to obtain a confession from their parents.
May 13th, 2009 at 3:02 pmSlappyBastinado Says:
Ye of faith, the worst is yet to come! Prepare thy self as the Messiah morphs.
But, but Dick Cheney hasn’t morphed. He’s still the biggest Dick in America.
May 13th, 2009 at 3:04 pmStop!
You’re torturing me.
Just what is this ‘contractor’ crap? We spend billions on various intelligence agencies and they have to hire outside help?
When did we privatize that part of the system?
May 13th, 2009 at 3:06 pmWell what ever President Obama does at least he was actually elected. Bush committed all these travesties after stealing the election That exacerbates everything. First we should investigate the 200 election and then move to 9/11.
May 13th, 2009 at 3:06 pmHoodathunktick, they’re still outsourcing. Yesterday they were talking about how they’d just outsourced the senate dining room because it was losing so much money. Apparently it was incredibly cheap. Couldn’t they have just raised prices. Now that they’ve outsourced it the will. Only the workers won’t get any money or benefits for it.
May 13th, 2009 at 3:09 pmShayne, it appears the need to have someone else make the profit is still alive and well in DC.
We can’t pay government employees a better wage but we can let some company or someone make ridiculous money for doing the same thing.
May 13th, 2009 at 3:15 pmThose photos must be pretty horrific.
May 13th, 2009 at 3:16 pmMaybe the White House is not releasing these photos because of the massive spontaneous right wing masturbation that would instantly happen once they are aired.
But, then again, it could also keep the 24%er’s quiet as they bask in their own afterglow.
May 13th, 2009 at 3:17 pmHoodathunktick, the change was ordered last year while Bush was still Prez at least. I can’t wait until the contractor gets caught hiring undocumented workers.
May 13th, 2009 at 3:19 pmThe pix of them torturing the children will probably give their leader, Rush, a stroke.
May 13th, 2009 at 3:20 pmDemocracy is not perfect, occasionally mistakes are made and instead of a real leader you get a weak cowardly POS. Bush’s shitstains on the fabric of America will take some time to clean up, give President Obama some time.
If President Obama tries to protect the current soldiers from crimes committed on Bush’s orders, more power to him.
I don’t need to see more pictures to know that Bush should be tried for war crimes. The pictures I want to see are of him and Cheney and the whole sick lot of them behind bars for the rest of their long and cancer ridden lives.
We are a better people than that collectively. Sure we have the cowardly pussies like our trolls, but they are in the rapidly shrinking minority.
May 13th, 2009 at 3:26 pmI need to get this straight. The Bush Administration is saying we had to do these ‘things’ to keep Americans safe. But if we show the world what we did, Americans won’t be safe anymore?
May 13th, 2009 at 3:45 pmI don’t know what the hell is happening.
I read this article by Glenn Greenwald.
This isn’t making sense to me. I can’t understand why President Obama would threaten BK is such a manner. I won’t believe it until President Obama states it.
May 13th, 2009 at 4:30 pmMy father, a decorated WWII veteran, my uncles,both decorated war heroes had war photos. From Berkenbau, the Marianas, Guadacanal. As an 10yr old I saw them for the fist time. They were horrid but they validated what a history book or journal only hinted at. This needs to be done because we can only hope the truth sets us free. Today is a sad day for justice and truthseekers.
May 13th, 2009 at 4:34 pmIt is part of the mentality about not allowing pictures of the returning fallen. If you can’t see it, it can’t be dirty. The Republicans are fixated on ‘telling’ America what it needs to know.
Showing pictures of what they are doing are a no no because people react much differently to visual images than to words. Talking about torture is easy. Viewing it isn’t.
May 13th, 2009 at 4:44 pmOT —
Did anyone here know that there are checkpoints in the US? Checkpoints like the checkpoints between Mexico and the US?
I didn’t either until I saw this. This is a Pastor who was tazered.
May 13th, 2009 at 5:06 pm“Obama adminstration reverses itself, won’t release detainee abuse photos.”
I said it before when Gibbs backtracked on Wanda Sykes’ joke about Limbaugh…
GROW A SPINE!
May 13th, 2009 at 5:43 pmGreat! Let’s just sweep it all under the rug, Better yet, vacuum it up, destroy the pictures, destroy the tapes and act like it never happened.
ARE YOU KIDDING ME??? THIS IS EXACTLY THE WRONG THING TO DO.
DOES THE WHITE HOUSE ACTUALLY BELIEVE THE REST OF THE WORLD DOESN’T KNOW WHAT AMERICAN INTERROGATORS SODOMIZED YOUNG IRAQI BOYS AND VIDEOTAPED IT????
May 13th, 2009 at 6:00 pmObama will keep going back again and again till it hits the Supreme Court. Actually he is breaking the law by not doing what the court told the DOJ to do. They do not want us to see the pictures of the little boys that were sodomized in front of their mothers by the interpreters. And if water boarding works, and it saves time against a ticking bomb, then why do it 84 times to one and 187 times to another?
And in case anyone hasn’t heard, the enemy are taught to resist torture and that is why it is a waste of time. But they can be outsmarted by a good interrogator. And the good information we have, has been obtained that way. The enemy has not been taught to resist real knowledge by interrogators, of their culture etc. That is the leverage we use to get information. The physical stuff is just crude and the amateur way to go about it. In case anyone has not been reading the books and listening to hearings on the subject.
And water boarding is torture. To be having a phony discussion after all this time is specious. And as Jonathan Turley the Constitutional lawyer says it is still illegal. Even if we had good information or any information. It is still illegal. That is the bottom line.
May 13th, 2009 at 8:44 pmOh my God!!!!!!!!! So much “CHANGE”!!!!!!!!
May 13th, 2009 at 8:57 pmthanks a lot
Hikaye
May 13th, 2009 at 9:06 pmHikayeler
Hosting
where’s all the liberal outrage at bambi’s flip-flop?
Also, everyone thought the first batch of “torture” pics would be horrible beyond belief. What we got were butt-pyramids, detainees with paper bags over their heads, detainees threatened with barking dogs, but not attacked, threatened with electrocution, but not shocked. Compare that with beheading someone who’s still alive, and there is no comparison. Yet libs equate the two. what morons!
May 14th, 2009 at 2:37 am.
Dear smiley69,
I see dead people…
http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/sites/afterdowningstreet.org/files/images/abu2.jpg
http://attendingtheworld.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/0504_thumbs_up_corpse_500×3.jpg
.
May 14th, 2009 at 4:18 am