Pelosi: ‘At Every Step Of The Way, The Administration Was Misleading The Congress’
Pelosi: ‘At Every Step Of The Way, The Administration Was Misleading The Congress’
In the Wall Street Journal this morning, Karl Rove declared that House Speaker Nancy Pelsoi (D-CA) was “an accomplice to ‘torture,’” repeating the right wing’s latest talking point that Pelosi is responsible for Bush’s torture program and should be demonized — even as Rove insists it wasn’t really “torture” and actually was a really great program.
This morning, Pelosi held a press conference to address these allegations. Reading a statement, she said that the CIA had told her in September 2002 — falsely — that waterboarding was not being used:
PELOSI: The CIA briefed me only once on enhanced interrogation techniques in September 2002, in my capacity as ranking member of the intelligence committee. I was informed then that the Department of Justice opinions had concluded that the use of Enhanced Interrogation Techniques were legal. The only mention of waterboarding at that briefing was that it was not being employed. [...]
We also now know that techniques including waterboarding had already been employed and that those briefing me had given me inaccurate and incomplete information. At the same time the Bush administration…was misleading the American people about the threat of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.
Indeed, we now know that the CIA had waterboarded Abu Zubaydah 83 times in August, 2002, after receiving approval from Condoleezza Rice in July.
Pelosi also accused the CIA and the Bush administration of repeatedly misleading Congress and the American people, and repeated her call for a truth commission to examine the issue:
PELOSI: So on the subject of what’s happening in Iraq, when it’s talking about the techniques used by the intelligence community on those they’re interrogating, at every step of the way, the administration was misleading the Congress. And that is the issue. And that is why we need a truth commission to look into the issue.
REPORTER: So Madame Speaker, just to be clear, you’re accusing the CIA of lying to you in September of 2002?
PELOSI: Yes. Misleading the Congress of the United States.
Watch it:
It's hard for me to imagine that anyone in our intelligence area would ever mislead a member of Congress. They come to the Hill to brief us because they're required to under the law, and I don't know what motivation they would have to mislead anyone. And I don't believe, and don't feel, that in the briefings I've had that I've been mislead at any one point in time.
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Nancy Pelosi’s involvement is completely beside the point.
If she was involved – she should be prosecuted as well. Let’s get on with it.
Waterboarding = WAR CRIMES.
May 14th, 2009 at 12:15 pm.
Dear Nancy,
And at every step of the way, you did nothing!
What does that make you?
.
May 14th, 2009 at 12:16 pmwatchdog Says:
Why would anyone believe what this blowhard has to say.
Barking at the mirror again because you see a dog?
May 14th, 2009 at 12:19 pmYou don’t know what motivation they might have to LIE to you? How about avoiding prosecution. W’s admin probably said, whatever you do, don’t tell the as*hats in Congress what we are ACTUALLY doing since it is ILLEGAL.
May 14th, 2009 at 12:20 pm.
Give me a “C”
Give me a “O”
Give me a “M”
Give me a “P”
Give me a “L”
Give me a “I”
Give me a “C”
Give me a “I”
Give me a “T”
What’s that spell?
What’s that spell?
“Impeachment is off the table.”
.
May 14th, 2009 at 12:21 pmOS Says:
Nancy Pelosi’s involvement is completely beside the point.
Apologize, much?
If she’s complicit, fine, let’s investigate and find out. but regardless of what she knew at the time, those who were actually torturing, and ordering the torture are more responsible. You’re probably one of those idiots who think that torture makes us safe, but pictures of torture puts us in danger…
May 14th, 2009 at 12:22 pmI’m getting tired of this talking point. This is a matter of RIGHT and WRONG, not Democrat and Republican. It’s irrelevant that she knew.
Obviously, all war crimes are conspiracies. If she was involved, it doesn’t matter, she should be indicted too.
And even if it’s true, being complicit is not as bad as being the one who ordered the crime.
May 14th, 2009 at 12:25 pmThis current Repugnant smoke screen would be hilarious if it weren’t so damn dishonest. Even if the very worst case against Pelosi is true get it through your thick heads they weren’t asking her for permission they where BRIEFING HER. In a classified environment. If she had leaked those briefings which would have been her only option of disclosing them. She would be being tried as a traitor. Secondarily if these acts where so damn necessary she should have parades organized for her but they weren’t where they
May 14th, 2009 at 12:27 pmYeah, Boner, an ageny that destroyed 92 interrogation tapes would never lie about said interrogations.
I don’t care about Pelosi–if she’s complicit somehow, let her answer for it–but her complicity is nowhere near that of Bush officials. Repubs are just playing What about the Dems, Mommy–Barney and Nancy–they did it too!
May 14th, 2009 at 12:28 pmWhile I’m not so naive as to think that the intelligence community, knowing which way the wind was blowing, might not have been as truthful to Pelosi as it should have been, then the time to reveal that information was as soon as Pelosi realized that she had been lied to, not now, when she’s getting heat.
Now we know why Pelosi took impeachment off the table…
May 14th, 2009 at 12:28 pmEveryone who was in the White House or the Congress when this travesty was perpetrated has skin in the game. However, Pelosi is “small game” in any hunt for who pulled the trigger. All roads lead to Darth Cheney and his hand-puppet, GDumbya, in this crime. No wonder Darth has emerged from his “undisclosed location” to run his mouth about Obama, the safety of the country, etc. He is scared sh!tless that this is all going to end up on his doorstep . . . which is squarely where it belongs.
The media’s preoccupation with Pelosi is discouraging. They seem to be doing the bidding of Limpballs and all the rest of the right-wing radio rant-jockeys who are conflating, distracting, bloviating, distorting, deceiving and dissembling furiously in order to pin GDumbya and Darth Cheney’s failures and crimes on some democrat . . . any democrat. This is just one more example of the complete and utter desperation and death of the right wing of the republican party.
May 14th, 2009 at 12:29 pmAnd if the Republicans will back prosecuting Bush and Cheney, et. al, then I have no problem with going after Pelosi if she’s complicit.
May 14th, 2009 at 12:29 pmPerhaps you can explain what authority Nancy Pelosi had over the Bush administration’s “harsh interrogation” program in 2002? Or even 2006, for that matter?
Thanks so much.
May 14th, 2009 at 12:29 pmI for one, believe that they decieved her! They decieved us about everything else, what makes you think that they told Pelosi, a Democrat the truth?
May 14th, 2009 at 12:29 pmSo Nancy, then call for a complete investigation and clear your name. Don’t throw an entire agency, mostly comprised of excellent professional men and women, under the bus to save your sorry behind.
May 14th, 2009 at 12:30 pmBONER: It’s hard for me to imagine…blah blah blah…
Get back to your tanning bed, halfwit.
May 14th, 2009 at 12:30 pmBring on the investigations! If anyone was complicit(That includes Nancy as well) then so be it. Everyone involved should be prosecuted. Let’s start with a clean slate. I don’t give a crap if they are a R. or a D. If the photos are as bad as I think they are, nobody should be immune.
May 14th, 2009 at 12:31 pm“It’s hard for me to imagine that anyone in our intelligence area would ever mislead a member of Congress.”
Give me a friggin’ break. It’s obvious that Pelosi is being demonized and used as an ideal distraction. Holding HER responsible for the torture program?!?! All you bandwagon jumpers are so itching for a witchhunt…
May 14th, 2009 at 12:32 pmI have no reason to believe the CIA on anything. They were complicit with the Bush administration every step of the way.
May 14th, 2009 at 12:33 pmWTG! Madame Speaker!! She just upped the ante on Rove , Cheney and the Republicans! You did not report on the rest of here words, but she did say she wanted the transcripts of the briefings released to the public! Now all you people who want to fall for this game of the Republicans creating diversions and making Pelosi the “fall-guy”, er woman in this case…in trying to protect the Bush/Cheney regime’s butt. There really must be some incrementing stuff there…..for the Republicans to be putting up such a fuss~
May 14th, 2009 at 12:33 pmThis is nothing more than a different version of the Republic party’s “but Clinton did it too” defense to all of their mismanagement and illegal activities over the last 8 years. Even assuming for the sake of argument that Pelosi did know about the use of torture, this doesn’t exonerate the Bushies from being war criminals for torturing prisoners — it simply may make her a co-conspirator or an accessory after the fact.
And the ambiguously tan Bone-head should just STFU, since he clearly has nothing to offer to the discussion…just trying to put up more smoke and mirrors to deflect the Bush war crimes investigation, as usual…
May 14th, 2009 at 12:34 pmIt’s hard for me to imagine that anyone in our intelligence area would ever mislead a member of Congress.
“If I can’t imagine it, then it is probably false”. Great fallacy.
May 14th, 2009 at 12:35 pmAbsolutely.
Anyone involved in authorizing or providing legal cover for torture should be prosecuted.
If someone can explain how the House Minority Leader falls under those categories, by all means, let’s see Speaker Pelosi answer for her role.
(Presumably, if the trolls think Nancy Pelosi, as House Minority Leader from Nov 2002 is culpable, surely then-Speaker of the House Denny Hastert must be implicated as well, right? And John Boehner is equally to blame for any Obama administration misdeeds the trolls care to imagine.)
May 14th, 2009 at 12:35 pmWait. Condi Rice said if the president authorized it, it is legal.
May 14th, 2009 at 12:35 pmUm, Boner, WMDs?????
May 14th, 2009 at 12:36 pmHey Pelosi, Karma’s a b1tch, huh?
Wish you could reconsider your, “Off the table” stand? I bet you do.
I am a lifelong democrat and hate the Bu$h administration with a passion, but you simply are part of the problem now. You hit back, and you hit hard if you want to save your political @ss. Appoint an independent prosecutor, or face the wrath of the right wing nutjobs as well as the progressives.
May 14th, 2009 at 12:36 pmSo it’s only torture if Pelosi knew about it?
May 14th, 2009 at 12:37 pmYou be frank and I’ll be ernest: If Pelosi had known that the Bush Crime Family was outing Valerie Plame, lying about yellow cake, torturing prisoners and objected, would she have been able to stop Cheney and Booosh? Has the crime family ever lied to us? I believe Pelosi over the lying scumbags of the Booosh Crime Family.
May 14th, 2009 at 12:38 pmWhy according to Dick Cheney logic Pelosi saved perhaps a hundred thousand lives.
Tom Delay is guilty however..
May 14th, 2009 at 12:38 pmPELOSI: The CIA briefed me only once on enhanced interrogation techniques in September 2002, in my capacity as ranking member of the intelligence committee. I was informed then that the Department of Justice opinions had concluded that the use of Enhanced Interrogation Techniques were legal. The only mention of waterboarding at that briefing was that it was not being employed.
___________
And that didn’t strike you as odd? The fact that they went out of their way to brief you about a technique that they weren’t using?
May 14th, 2009 at 12:38 pmIt’s hard for me to imagine that anyone in our intelligence area would ever mislead a member of Congress.
I guess there wasn’t any ‘misleading’ in the run up to Iraq, right ?
They just got it wrong. Darn it.
Let’s study that and make sure it doesn’t happen again.
They come to the Hill to brief us because they’re required to under the law,
The last eight years has shown everyone that ‘the law’ didn’t apply during the last administration so why would it apply to the ‘intelligence area’ ?
I don’t know what motivation they would have to mislead anyone.
How about dick & george breathing down their necks ?
May 14th, 2009 at 12:38 pmOS Says:
pelosi is just trying to plug the many holes in her sinking ship………..
troll much?
May 14th, 2009 at 12:40 pmit is ON now. she is forcing the CIA’s hand to make them point the finger to the executive branch.
well done, Madame Speaker.
May 14th, 2009 at 12:40 pmGovernment security officials dissasembling members of Congress, oh my. Right-wingers in positions of nat’l security lying? Can you say Allende, Contras, El Salvador, etc real fast. Methinks the term “truth commission” is no slip of the ol’ tongue. Are we torturing U.S. citizens right now in secret holding facilities. Could Nancy be holding a lantern up to the worst of the worst????
May 14th, 2009 at 12:40 pmHouse Minority Leader John Boehner (R-OH) insisted that intelligence officials would never mislead any member of Congress:
“It’s hard for me to imagine that anyone in our intelligence area would ever mislead a member of Congress.”
______________
Gee… was tha BoHHHHHHHner tearing up as he spoke?
Did he issue this scathing rebuttal while out on a golf course, or from a tanning salon?
May 14th, 2009 at 12:40 pmBoneboy, ” And I don’t believe, and don’t feel, that in the briefings I’ve had that I’ve been mislead at any one point in time.”
Is the distinguished abettor of child molester Mark Foley admitting that the CIA fully briefed him on the torture program… waterboarding and all? Was the King of Obstruction, the Prince of No Ideas, the Golden Goose of K Street holding full knowlege of the program, yet kept his mouth shut about it like he did when his BFF Foley was coming on to pages on the Hill? He will probably bawl like a lovelorn schoolgirl suffering her first heartache when his idol Dick Cheney is strung up for commiting war crimes.
May 14th, 2009 at 12:40 pmThe matter deserve an investigation…what we are hearing now are claims by Cheney ,his daughter, Rove and many other Republicans about the subject of waterboarding…and now we hear countering by Pelsoi denying she was told the full account of the subject of torture.
May 14th, 2009 at 12:40 pmI am not a fan of Nancy Pelosi…but there is a great possiblity that an administration that was run by Cheney and Rove was capable of hiding facts from Pelosi.
That’s why an independent and non political investigation of the matter is needed.
trooper Says:
it is ON now. she is forcing the CIA’s hand to make them point the finger to the executive branch.
___________
Agreed… once she came out and publicly declared, “They lied to us”, there isn’t much wiggle room left in the equation.
SOMEBODY’S going down here.
May 14th, 2009 at 12:41 pmOur torture program was a two woman operation:
1. Nancy Pelosi – the brains.
2. Lyndie England – the brawn.
May 14th, 2009 at 12:42 pmYeah, Pelosi ordered the torture and Cheney and Bush didn’t know how to stop her.
They only wish she had divulged classified information so they could have thrown her in jail way back then. The people who fall for this RepubliCON crap are fools.
May 14th, 2009 at 12:42 pmOS Says:
Obviously Stupid?
May 14th, 2009 at 12:43 pmIt’s hard for me to imagine that anyone in our intelligence area would ever mislead a member of Congress.
* * *
Yeah, well, it’s hard for me to imagine a Senator paying a woman to diaper him and a Senator ‘tapping a wall for mano-to-mano bathroom sex’ at an airport, but well, shit happens, sooo . .
RELEASE THE 2002 BRIEFING TAPE AND/OR TRANSCRIPT and then the truth will settle Boehner’s confusion and Ms. Pelosi’s veracity . .
May 14th, 2009 at 12:43 pmraynman Says:
And if the Republicans will back prosecuting Bush and Cheney, et. al, then I have no problem with going after Pelosi if she’s complicit.
____________
I have no problem going after ANYONE if they’re complicit.
Just treat them all equally, and fairly… heh…
May 14th, 2009 at 12:44 pmtrooper Says:
it is ON now. she is forcing the CIA’s hand to make them point the finger to the executive branch.
Trooper, I sure hope you’re right.
May 14th, 2009 at 12:44 pmBybee and Yoo..seriously? People think that these lawyers semantics made something legal because they used some Luntzian method.
Im surprised they didnt call it inverted nasal passage cleansing
May 14th, 2009 at 12:44 pmOS Says:
Nancy Pelosi’s involvement is completely beside the point.
Apologize, much?
___________
Apparently, you didn’t even bother to read the next line of the comment:
If she was involved – she should be prosecuted as well. Let’s get on with it.
How is that an apology?
Stupidize, much?
May 14th, 2009 at 12:46 pm.
Q U E S T I O N:
If Nancy Pelosi was briefed on TORTURE and told that this is what the Administration “might use” and she said nothing, then she was giving tacit permission for crimes to be committed. Then, when elevated to the third most powerful position in the United States of America, she still refused to act on what she knew the Administration “might use”, that then was another permission slip to commit a “possible crime”.
At what point is she complicit TO the crime?
We all saw photos back in 2005 of the “TORTURE”…
… Deemed a few bad apples.
We all saw them vote to allow “enhanced interrogation” in 2005…
… Bush’s signing statement stating he can ignore the law.
And Nancy just went, blink, blink, blink-blink, blink, blink, “Impeachment is off the table.”
Why was accountability “OFF THE TABLE”?
What purpose did that serve?
WHO did taking accountability off the table serve?
.
May 14th, 2009 at 12:46 pmWow. Pelosi was pulling Arbusto Cowboys AND Shotgun Dicks strings behind the curtain of OZ for eight years, whodathunkit?
May 14th, 2009 at 12:47 pmOS Says:
So, if I walked over and shot my neighbor on my left, could I just say I was “misled” by my neighbor on my right? Loon logic.
__________
Talk about silly gibberish…
Try making a “real point”, okay?
May 14th, 2009 at 12:48 pmRemember, ‘Don’t take the law into your own hands, you take ‘em to court, The People’s Court’.
Where’s Judge Wopner? He could settle this.
May 14th, 2009 at 12:48 pmThe Republic of Hymenoptera Stupidity Says:
Agreed… once she came out and publicly declared, “They lied to us”, there isn’t much wiggle room left in the equation.
SOMEBODY’S going down here.
May 14th, 2009 at 12:41 pm
___________
I just wish she’d be a little more honest about it. They didn’t lie to her, they USED her to cover their asses, and she fell for the trap. They briefed her so they could say that they briefed a Democrat and received approval.
The CIA and the Bush Administration knew exactly what they were doing – setting a few key Democrats up for exactly what’s happening now. Instead of putting the issue to rest and admitting that she was used by the Bushies, she’s going to drag out this distraction story by parsing words and trying to assert her innocence.
I’m very concerned that the story is becoming “what did Pelosi know and when did she know it” instead of “what did Bush DO and when did he DO it?”
May 14th, 2009 at 12:49 pmOS Says:
Outrageously Simpleminded?
May 14th, 2009 at 12:49 pmHeres some odd logic. Shotgun Dick says he saved thousands of lives thru enhanced interrogation and its Pelosis fault because she didnt stop him from torturing after she was briefed.
May 14th, 2009 at 12:50 pmLet’s clear all these questions up with an investigation, damn it.
May 14th, 2009 at 12:52 pmBut but but 911 changed everything!!
/snark
May 14th, 2009 at 12:53 pmPleas forgive me if someone else has brought this up, no time to read all your good post today….It seems to me palosi has been “acting in concert” all along, beginning with taking impeachment off the table…Investigate all and punish the guilty damn it..When are we going to have law abiding, honest, political representative….We have so few at present, we need many more…Many need spinal injection’s or fusions…Abide by the constitution and enforce the law, now…Blessings
May 14th, 2009 at 12:53 pmOS Says:
If she was involved – she should be prosecuted as well.
Which means her involvement is relevant…I rest my case.
__________
You haven’t made any case, or point… but don’t let that stop you from awarding yourself some sort of medal…
May 14th, 2009 at 12:53 pmLet’s see who to believe…. Pelosi or Rove, Boner etc.? Gee now there’s a hard one.
May 14th, 2009 at 12:54 pmIf things went down the way the RepubliCONS claim it did then what could Pelosi really have done about it other than committing treason and releasing classified information.
If on the other hand, she did nothing because she was being blackmailed by the administration with something they garnered her by wiretapping her phones. Well then she SHOULD have sacrificed her career for the good of the country. She should have come out and said what they had on her so that IMPEACHMENT could have been on the table. If it had been the torturers probably would have been afraid to continue their behavior.
May 14th, 2009 at 12:54 pmThe torture tapes were destroyed because they demonstrated that, rather than trying to get intel on the next strike, the administration wanted, on tape, someone tortured into linking al Qaede with Iraq.
Doesn’t seem like anyone provided that link or we would have heard about it non-stop during the run up to the illegal invasion.
Waterboarding someone 180+ times over weeks is not the ticking bomb scenario they claimed.
And who believes that the CIA was not involved in Cheney’s assassination squads?
Geez, just typing this stuff is making me sick…
PEACE
May 14th, 2009 at 12:54 pmJohn Boehner [R-Republic of Stoopidity]: “It’s hard for me to imagine that anyone in our intelligence area would ever mislead a member of Congress….
Your lack of imagination is not our problem. What we care about is whether it happened, not whether you have the ability to imagine it.
“They come to the Hill to brief us because they’re required to under the law, and I don’t know what motivation they would have to mislead anyone.”
Umm, because they’re breaking the law and they know it?!?!?
Cheers,
May 14th, 2009 at 12:54 pmSee Nancy, appeasing the reightwing is like appeasing a crazed pit-bull.
Feed and submit to them all you want…but turn around and they’ll bite ya in the a$$ sure as shine-ola. Crazed pit-bulls are best put down. You had your chance.
She’s making some very powerful accusations though. I may even believe her . But it might not “play” well…it appears more like CYA than anything else.
May 14th, 2009 at 12:54 pmBut Obama uses a teleprompter, People!!!!
TELEPROMPTER!!!!!!
*jumps out window*
May 14th, 2009 at 12:56 pmHow does one release classified information without violating the law?
But I don’t see you complaining about the folks who ordered the TORTURE or carried out the TORTURE. Are you Oneofthe Suspects?
May 14th, 2009 at 12:57 pmOS Says:
The real question is what did obama know and when did he know it…..right?
__________
Ummm… was Obama on the intelligence committee in 2002?
May 14th, 2009 at 12:58 pmspring heeled jack Says:
I guess the desperate repubs will start yelling that Pelosi uses a teleprompter too… as if that’s some kind of evil.
May 14th, 2009 at 12:58 pmREPORTER: So Madame Speaker, just to be clear, you’re accusing the CIA of lying to you in September of 2002?
PELOSI: Yes. Misleading the Congress of the United States.
Tired Of Fighting: And you waited until 2009 to say anything about it, and is this why impeachment was immediately off the table?
PELOSI: (sound of crickets)
When you lie down with dogs, well you know the rest.
RIP
May 14th, 2009 at 12:58 pmSGT Stephen R. Sherman
C CO 1-5 IN (STRYKER)
KIA 3 Feb 2005
Mosul Iraq
.
http://www.criminal-law-lawyer-source.com/terms/accessory.html
May 14th, 2009 at 12:58 pm
I know you’re a jacka$$, what does that make me guilty of?
May 14th, 2009 at 12:59 pmOS Says:
So, if I walked over and shot my neighbor on my left, could I just say I was “misled” by my neighbor on my right? Loon logic.
May 14th, 2009 at 12:44 pm
____________
Yes, you could. And if you could produce substantial evidence that your neighbor on the right coerced you into shooting your neighbor on the left and was in any way complicit in said shooting, he/she could be tried as an accessory to murder or worse.
It’s not loon logic, it’s the law.
May 14th, 2009 at 12:59 pmDoodlebug Shayne Says:
How does one release classified information without violating the law?
___________
The idiot can’t understand a concept that complicated, Shayne.
May 14th, 2009 at 12:59 pmCons and GOPers see Congress as an obstacle, rather than a co-equal branch of government, so I can totally see a Gopercon executive branch deliberately misinforming a congressional committee, and/or directing others to do the same.
GOPers and Cons don’t really like Democracy. They’d be a lot more comfortable in a monarchy.
May 14th, 2009 at 1:01 pmzuch Says:
John Boehner [R-Republic of Stoopidity]:
____________
hey, hey hey… waitaminnite… yer giving me a bad name here.
As much as I understand yer usage here, you AIN’T pinnin’ tha BoHHHHHner on me.
May 14th, 2009 at 1:02 pmUnfortunately, “The Obama King” and his scumbag AG, Holder (The Court Jester) aren’t inclined to prosecute any of this crime-infested headlice!
They are all lawless criminals with ZERO morality, with “The Obama King” leading the Cartel!
May 14th, 2009 at 1:02 pm.
When ever I see Nancy, I can’t help but see someone in a hospital gown trying to keep it closed in back.
.
May 14th, 2009 at 1:02 pmWTF?!
It’s hard for me to imagine that former VP Cheney could lie to us about torture being affective.
It’s hard for me to imagine that Rethuglicans defend the use of torture techniques like waterboarding on human beings.
It’s hard for me to imagine that Boehner could be so dense!
May 14th, 2009 at 1:02 pmLet’s look at the bright side in all this. Our former enemy combatants are now a little cleaner than they use to be. :) Cleaner and really no longer a threat to our nations security. I’m just not sure why nobody in the European union will help us house these newly reformed wayward members of the Islamic Community. They’re harmless right Nancy and Barry?
Does anybody know that the most successful interogators of the Nazi empire against American POW’s were super friendly with our men? He’d play board games with them, get them hookups like smokes, beverages, and comfort items, get letters delivered to their families in the U.S. and even visited them personally after the war was over in the U.S. Amazing but true. The other truth is that Club Gitmo is divided between prisoners who are more or less followers and the true hardcore. This same Hardcore group of “Shotcallers”, prison code for those who control the groups purpose, took the brunt of the cleaning I mean waterboarding sessions. Just a wild guess but I don’t think these wayward Islamofasts would have responded to board games and smokes and were clearly ready to show us how tough they were during the waterboarding games!!!
May 14th, 2009 at 1:02 pmThe real question is, “Was Bush really above the law and if so why have Bybee and Yoo reinterpret the law to fit the agenda if Rice says when the president authorizes something its legal?”
May 14th, 2009 at 1:03 pmOS Says:
So, if I walked over and shot my neighbor on my left, could I just say I was “misled” by my neighbor on my right? Loon logic.
What a great analogy, too bad it has nothing to do with the case at hand…
However, if your neighbor comes up to you and says that your other neighbor is sick and it turns out the neighbor is sick from lead posioning, from the bullet the first neighbor put in his head, that guy can’t blame you in court because he talked to you…
I realize this is difficult for you to get your head around, after all, your boy cheney shot a man in the face and claimed it was the other guy’s fault, and the other guy agreed. But that’s not the logic the reality based community uses…
May 14th, 2009 at 1:03 pmYou throw out the ad hominem excuse too casually OS, and you are misusing the term. An ad hominem attack is an attack against a person in order to undermine their position rather than attacking the merits of the position.
If I say that OS is a dumb fck, it’s because I believe that to be true, just your garden variety insult not an ad hominem attack. If I say that OS’s position on torture is wrong because OS is a dumb fck, that is an ad hominem attack.
See the difference dumb fck?
May 14th, 2009 at 1:04 pmThe Boner : “It’s hard for me to imagine…”
Yes, for someone who has turd for brains, it is hard
May 14th, 2009 at 1:04 pmto imagine anything.
Quite a fantasy life you have there, Archie Habib Olbysucker Lobo.
May 14th, 2009 at 1:04 pm.
US Title Code 18.1.1.3
http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/usc_sec_18_00000003—-000-.html
.
May 14th, 2009 at 1:07 pmSure the purpose of interrogation is to create informants that give information over a span of time.
You wouldnt starve your horse before riding it across a desert would you?
May 14th, 2009 at 1:08 pmSheepdog Says:
Just a wild guess but I don’t think these wayward Islamofasts would have responded to board games and smokes and were clearly ready to show us how tough they were during the waterboarding games!!!
May 14th, 2009 at 1:02 pm
_________
Um, mythical creatures don’t smoke and don’t play board games. That is, assuming you meant “Islamofascists.”
If you did indeed mean Islamofasts, however, my point still stands. You can’t play board games with the month of Ramadan, and it DEFINITELY doesn’t smoke.
May 14th, 2009 at 1:08 pmAnd yet:
“It is inaccurate, however, to say that Abu Zubaydah had been uncooperative. Along with another F.B.I. agent, and with several C.I.A. officers present, I questioned him from March to June 2002, before the harsh techniques were introduced later in August. Under traditional interrogation methods, he provided us with important actionable intelligence.
We discovered, for example, that Khalid Shaikh Mohammed was the mastermind of the 9/11 attacks. Abu Zubaydah also told us about Jose Padilla, the so-called dirty bomber. This experience fit what I had found throughout my counterterrorism career: traditional interrogation techniques are successful in identifying operatives, uncovering plots and saving lives.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/23/opinion/23soufan.html
May 14th, 2009 at 1:10 pmOS, what is your point, old sport?–other than sliming Dems?
May 14th, 2009 at 1:10 pm.
Oath of Office, House Clerk
http://clerk.house.gov/member_info/oathoffice.html
No where does this Oath of Office state that House Members swear to pass legislation.
No where in this Oath do Members swear an allegiance to the Administration.
No where in this Oath does it allow Members to choose which aspect of the Constitution to ignore for political purposes(read: PARTISAN).
No where in this Oath does it allow Members to Obstruct Justice.
… Yet, none dare call it TREASON!
.
May 14th, 2009 at 1:11 pmnanlichi Says:
You throw out the ad hominem excuse too casually OS, and you are misusing the term. An ad hominem attack is an attack against a person in order to undermine their position rather than attacking the merits of the position
First: self disclosure-I literally have cheeto stained fingers right now, but I’m not in mommy’s basement. really.
I think you’ve discovered a central truth here nanlichi: trolls and their heros have only one kind of logic at their disposal. ad hominem.
Their defense of any con is ad hominem:
repub are right and noble and patriotic because they are repubs. no further discussion is necesarry.
libs, dems progs etc are wrong, lazy, cowardly, hate america,etc because they are libs, etc.
Life must be very simple in that fairy dust world…
May 14th, 2009 at 1:11 pmSheepdog, the name is President Obama. You white men really can’t handle a black man in power can you. Try viagra and maybe you won’t feel so impotent.
May 14th, 2009 at 1:14 pmKKKarl Rove declared that Nancy Pelosi is an accessory to torture, butt, how can that be? For YEARS, the chimpy administration declared that the United States does not torture.
KKKarl, How can Nancy Pelosi be an accessory to something the United States does not do?
MAJOR snark
May 14th, 2009 at 1:15 pmBurning Question – Why is Nancy Pelosi on trial? Were there no Republican congresscritters in on the briefings? Or do the others involved prefer to remain anonymous and silent? What about those who gave the briefings?
May 14th, 2009 at 1:16 pmSee No Evil, Hear No Evil and Speak No Evil were not the only attendees.
Boehner, would that be the same “intelligence area” that told Congress Hussein had WMDs? Or are you suggesting the lies came from somewhere else? The White House maybe?
May 14th, 2009 at 1:17 pmIf someone gives you bad advice, say your neighbor lawyer, intentionally, and you then went and shot a neighbor [left or right is moot, dunno why you even used that] yes the lawyer could be charged.
May 14th, 2009 at 1:17 pmThis is a slick attempt by Rethuglicans to drag the Democratic Party down with them. Everytime I think about Bush’s statement that “we don’t torture.” I can believe that the CIA lied to Pelosi. I believe the CIA was told to lie at that time. Just like Bybee was bribed to sign off on those memos. I will continue to believe Pelosi until solid evidence is produced that she knew what was going on.
May 14th, 2009 at 1:18 pmLet me get this straight.
KKKarl accuses Pelosi of torture while, at the same time, saying it’s a ‘really great program’.
Trolls, this is why we don’t trust your Party of Pain…
you speak with forked tongue
May 14th, 2009 at 1:19 pmOne lesson all independents, Democrats and Libertarieans should have learned is that there is not reasoning for fighting fairly with RepubliCONS. Pelosi and Reid took impeachment of the table. who knows why. They want us to believe it was because there wasn’t enough votes and so they could get more done. Well as we all know now you can’t get the cooperation of terrorists. And that’s what the Rs are. They don’t care about the wishes of the majority as they’re supposed to. The more power they have the worse they behave. They refuse to pass bills good for the people, approve nominations of the most qualified people and they tell outrageous lies to smear others and deflect the blame from themselves. It’s time we all fought tooth and nail against these traitors.
May 14th, 2009 at 1:19 pm(sigh) Yet another troll I(or, still the same one) who doesn’t know what “ad hominem” actually means.
(Here’s a hint: it’s not a synonym for “attack”. It’s a very specific type of response. And TRoHS criticizing your lack of a point isn’t it.)
May 14th, 2009 at 1:22 pm“… tennet’s out there… he’s got a medal…” -r.limpbone
(i was just out, in my mom’s car, scanning the radio stations, thought i’d see what the bloviator was saying, for a minute…
i had not heard this news at the time…
oh, and he has to remind the rubes of his infallibility constantly… in the <15min i listened, he had to remind them many times how “correct” he was…)
May 14th, 2009 at 1:24 pmIn a press conference immediately after Pelosi finished, House Minority Leader John Boehner (R-OH) insisted that intelligence officials would never mislead any member of Congress:
“It’s hard for me to imagine that anyone in our intelligence area would ever mislead a member of Congress. They come to the Hill to brief us because they’re required to under the law, and I don’t know what motivation they would have to mislead anyone. And I don’t believe, and don’t feel, that in the briefings I’ve had that I’ve been mislead at any one point in time.”
**************************************************
With all due respect to Boehner, he appears to be making the same mistake that most of the neoconservatives have made over the last eight years — assuming that belief and fact are one and the same, when they often are not. The belief (or desire to believe) that a particular scenario did not or could not take place is not by itself enough to render said scenario impossible — anyone who thinks otherwise is engaging in both wishful and magical thinking.
That being said, just because Pelosi is claiming that the CIA lied to her doesn’t automatically mean that they did — I for one am disinclined to have a whole lot of sympathy for her. The cold, hard fact is that she wasn’t a completely innocent victim in this situation, because there are very few truly innocent victims in this life — although there are plenty of unwilling and even unwitting volunteers. The moment at which Pelosi found out that the US government was waterboarding detainees — regardless of precisely when that was — was the moment at which she was free to make a choice. Unfortunately, like so many other politicians before her, it appears that she chose to put self-interest ahead of ethics. Two of the other options which would have been available to her, just for starters, would have been either to initiate impeachment proceedings against Bush or to resign from Congress in protest. Both of those alternatives would unquestionably have made life more complicated for her, but at least she would have kept her integrity. Unfortunately, the right course of action is often not the easiest course of action — and the easiest course of action is often not the right one. If Pelosi knew that detainees were being waterboarded and decided to comply with the wishes of the Bush administration purely for the sake of her career, then she is to at least some degree complicit — and if so, she deserves to be penalized.
May 14th, 2009 at 1:25 pm.
Q U E S T I O N:
If my manager came to me and told me how he “might” be able to steal money from the Corporation, and even presented a memo from a lawyer that stated he is allowed to skim money from petty cash and not report it to pay his home mortgage and utilities…
… Do I have an obligation to report my manager to the CFO of the Corporation?
And when the Corporation finds out that, indeed my boss had been laundering money into his personal wallet, at what point should I report my understanding of the events?
And when I refuse to admit my foreknowledge of an intent to commit a felony, when do I become an accomplice to the crime?
.
May 14th, 2009 at 1:25 pmCould the loon whose logic devised this example please explain:
clearly, the neighbor who misled you represents the administration misleading Congress, right?
And “You” represent Speaker Pelosi in this instance, correct? After all, you’re making fun of someone claiming they were misled by another into committing a crime.
So what does the shooting of the neighbor represent? What did Speaker Pelosi actually DO that equates with this act?
Thanks for clearing this up.
May 14th, 2009 at 1:27 pm[
May 14th, 2009 at 1:28 pm.
So I can choose which aspects of my Oath of Office to abide to, which aspects of the Constitution to recognise…
… When I’m the House Speaker?
I THINK NOT!
Oh, it only counts when that House Speaker is a Democrat?
.
May 14th, 2009 at 1:30 pm.
R E M E M B E R:
Nancy Pelosi was briefed on these techniques…
… THAT KILLED PEOPLE, TOO!
.
May 14th, 2009 at 1:31 pmShayne had it right:
OS = Obviously Stupid
May 14th, 2009 at 1:31 pmJust how much credence are we supposed to put into the ‘but Nancy knew and she didn’t stop us!’ defense? And what about all the other MOC’s who were briefed, both R & D?
Briefing isn’t asking for permission. Especially when you tell the person being briefed they will go to jail if they open their yap.
In this case, someone should have just said ok, then I go to jail because you clowns are nuts and need to be stopped.
May 14th, 2009 at 1:32 pmOkay, Max, I see you’re taking a strong position here. Maybe you can explain what culpability is transferred when one is briefed on techniques?
May 14th, 2009 at 1:33 pmWho cares? Besides I believe her. Look how many lies chimpy told during his administration.
May 14th, 2009 at 1:34 pmDo I have an obligation to report my manager to the CFO of the Corporation?
Max, what do you do when the person doing the crime is a direct representative of the CFO and said CFO has agreed the siphoning is legal?
May 14th, 2009 at 1:35 pmJust one more reason why it is necessary to investigate and prosecute.
May 14th, 2009 at 1:35 pmAh yes, Alberto Gonzales, Ashcrofts replacement, the yes man who forget everything.
But did say: He [AG AG] also argued that undefined language in the Geneva Convention, such as “outrages upon personal dignity” and “inhuman treatment”, could make officials and military leaders subject to the War Crimes Act of 1996 if mistreatment was discovered.
May 14th, 2009 at 1:35 pmralph the wonder locust Says:
(Here’s a hint: it’s not a synonym for “attack”. It’s a very specific type of response. And TRoHS criticizing your lack of a point isn’t it.)
__________
That rather does PAINFULLY underscore the problem so many of the trolls have when they come here to, huh, ‘debate’.
They’re so confused as to the basics of language, they’re not even close to being ready to tackle the more advanced parts of the process… like “concepts”, “ideas”, or “theories”…
May 14th, 2009 at 1:37 pmEnglish much watchdog?
May 14th, 2009 at 1:40 pmNancy and many other Democrats cooperated with Dick Cheney and she knows it. She would do anything the Bush Administration said as she was paid well for her support. Notice how Feinstein is saying much these days as she was in the back pocket of the Bush Administration. I questioned her vote for Conntie Rice as Connie had no experience for the job of Secretary of State. Feinstein emailed back saying Connie was a good friend of hers. Remember every appointee Bush sent to be confirmed Feinstein said this is who our President wants so we have to support our President. Reid is so deep in this mess and loyal to the Bush Administraion he’s now campigning to save Dick Cheney.
May 14th, 2009 at 1:40 pmwatchdog Says: I guess your one of the idiots that voted this atrocity of a human being.
I believe you are referring to the Speaker with this disjointed comment. So if a person listening to a brief, who has no responsibility for the development or implementation of the program is an atrocity…what does that make the perpetrators responsible for the briefing?
May 14th, 2009 at 1:41 pmNicely done, watchpup. You’ve completed one of my favorite troll pratfalls; calling someone else an idiot in a post riddled with poor grammar.
It’s the purest refreshing nectar to an old troll hunter like myself.
May 14th, 2009 at 1:41 pmPerhaps you are right, but… do you have any evidence for your claim, Jackie?
May 14th, 2009 at 1:43 pmLicking your balls all day, dog, doesn’t make your tongue sharp.
May 14th, 2009 at 1:45 pmThank you Nancy. The GOP no longer needs Rush or Fox News to point out the stupidity of the left. The Socialist Democrat Party led by the three stooges of Obama, Harry, and Nancy is imploding all on its own. Keep up the good work.
Projection, thy name is Proud.
May 14th, 2009 at 1:45 pmwatchdog Says:
Bobwurst Says:
watchdog Says:
Why would anyone believe what this blowhard has to say.
Barking at the mirror again because you see a dog?
I guess your one of the idiots that voted this atrocity of a human being.
My point was that your postings make as much sense as a dog barking at it’s own reflection.
See, it was a play on words because your screen name is “watchdog”.
The fact that you can’t see that only strengthens my point. Thanks.
May 14th, 2009 at 1:46 pmralph,
Culpability is transferred when I choose to say nothing, when evidence before me points to a crime.
Culpability is transferred when I’m in a position to act otherwise.
Culpability is transferred when I obstruct Justice and remove avenues of accountability.
ralph,
When the mother suspects that her husband is raping their daughter and she asks no questions, instead denying her suspicisions internally, she’s somewhat culpable, SHOULD her suspicions prove correct.
When that mother has proof and still remains silent, she’s then culpable.
When the daughter goes to her mother and that mother denies the facts, she IS an accessory!
When the mother refuses to pick up the phone to alert authorities, she is as guilty as a get away driver.
I hope you are not suggesting that in 2002, when Nancy was briefed on TORTURE, she thought it to be good and lawful? If she didn’t question these techniques and how they comport to US Law, and Case Law, and Geneva Conventions, then she is wholly incompetent.
May 14th, 2009 at 1:49 pmnanlichi Says:
English much watchdog?
___________
Clearly, NOT…
May 14th, 2009 at 1:50 pmlol, proud will believe anything
what a gullible little twit
May 14th, 2009 at 1:50 pmI say look very hard into the repugs first, because they are the ones defending torture.
they are the ones who made the US less safe.
This doesn’t seem right to me. via wiki
May 14th, 2009 at 1:51 pm
Operation Enduring Freedom
Did this mean the Afghans should endure the US freedom to do whatever they pleased in a foreign nation?
Or did it mean freedom endures by blowing people up?
May 14th, 2009 at 1:55 pmDoodlebug Shayne Says:
Try viagra and maybe you won’t feel so impotent.
____________
Awww… all that’ll happen is he’ll get a couple of inches taller…
May 14th, 2009 at 1:55 pmNevermind Hitler, what did Eva Braun know and when did she know it?!
May 14th, 2009 at 1:55 pm98 prisoners were beaten and tortured to DEATH.
Sounds like a WAR CRIME to me, but of course the Repukes ignore that little item.
Everyone involved needs to answer for these crimes.
May 14th, 2009 at 1:56 pmralph,
p.s.
http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/usc_sec_18_00000003—-000-.html
I already posted it above. Pay close attention to the first paragraph. The law is clear. Systemic illegalities that occur from the original crime only complicate the issue for those who were briefed and said nothing.
May 14th, 2009 at 2:00 pmMax, I suggested no such thing. You’re better than that, my friend.
I’m suggesting that imputing culpability for a program on which the then-minority leader had no input, no power and was restricted in what she could say publicly by laws regarding classified information is really, really reaching.
I’ve been deeply disappointed by Speaker Pelosi’s performance in the Speaker’s chair, but you’re buying into the right-wing’s desperate attempt to shift the blame from the people who designed, justified and implemented the program to those who were simply “briefed” on it. It’s absurd.
I have no argument here. I think she’s a coward and this incident may simply be another example of her cowardice. But Nancy Pelosi is hardly responsible for the Bush administration’s approval of torture.
May 14th, 2009 at 2:01 pmProud doesnt seem to understand that is Pelosi is culpable that means that she is part of the crime the Bush admin committed.
Do they understand that they are, in effect, accusing the GnOP of a crime as well?
Go Proud!!
May 14th, 2009 at 2:03 pmspring heeled jack,
That argument would work if Pelosi was a mistress and NOT an elected Official of the U.S. House of Representatives who swore an Oath to the People from which she was elected to Represent(see above).
But please, even Eva Braun wasn’t elevated to be the third most powerful person in the U.S.A. in the U.S. Federal Government who’s Oath of Office then extends to the Nation, now was she?
May 14th, 2009 at 2:03 pmThe downside to that being he wont be able to bend over and grab his ankles for Limbaugh
May 14th, 2009 at 2:04 pmMax, I have no problem with investigating and prosecuting Speaker Pelosi or anyone who is found to be complicit with these war crimes.
But as I said before, you’re buying into the Right’s desperate attempt to shift the blame. Complicity is not the same thing as responsibility. Let’s focus on who was RESPONSIBLE before we investigate than who was complicit.
And from my understanding, the idea that a leader of the minority party being briefed on techniques the administration has decided to employ doesn’t even reach the definition of complicity that you’re citing here.
May 14th, 2009 at 2:07 pmralph,
that argument held water in 2006, BEFORE the elections.
Since 2007, her ship sank! It is now over two years later.
May 14th, 2009 at 2:07 pmProud Says:
The Socialist Democrat Party…
So says the fukwit from the Republic Fascist Party.
May 14th, 2009 at 2:10 pmI agree she has been criminally cowardly as Speaker. Her refusal to even consider impeachment was a breach of her responsibilities. She failed to provide any meaningful counterbalance to an administration out of control.
That does not make her responsible for torture. And you do the process no favors by insisting otherwise.
May 14th, 2009 at 2:14 pmralph,
I bought nothing!
In 2006, after the elections and during the swearing in of House members, I was a vocal opponent of Pelosi in her tacit permissiveness of criminal behavior of the Bush Administration.
In 2007, I wrote John Conyers and asked him to consider impeaching Pelosi for Obstruction. I cheered on her constituents in 2007 when they campaigned against her misprision of duty. I wrote my own House Rep. to consider impeaching Pelosi. I wrote my Senators about my disgust in their seemingly lack of concern about OUR Bill of Rights.
This is NOT a new position for me.
May 14th, 2009 at 2:15 pmLet’s oil the squeaky wheel Mr. President. repugs shouldn’t feel like they are the monstrances in these terrible situations, Sir. It’s obvious we can’t move on unless we make sure this bravo on torture doesn’t appear in our lexicon ever again, President Obama.
Let’s get to it, please.
Concealer wouldn’t cover this deep festering blemish on the United States face. We must dig out the Core; All the pus and blood will have to be removed, My Dear Mr. President.
Hopefully our reputation won’t suffer like Germany.
May 14th, 2009 at 2:20 pmMax, it was a cheap crack on my part, there is no equivalence in their culpability, obviously–but this sudden focus on Pelosi is the worst case of not seeing the forest for the trees.
May 14th, 2009 at 2:20 pmralph,
The mother is not responsible for her daughter’s rape by the father only untill that mother knows the facts and still refuses to do a damn thing. Are you suggesting that the mother has to be there holding ther daughter down?
And the neighbor who overheard that daughter complain to her mother does no favors to the family when that neighbor begins to ask questions and files a report with the police?
May 14th, 2009 at 2:20 pmMax, you’ve made your point emphatically. You have good reason to be critical of Nancy Pelosi.
I just think your willingness to pin the blame for torture on her is absurd, and coincidentally feeds the pathetic desires of the Right to shift the blame from those who, y’know… designed and implemented the policy.
(You did catch in the passage of the US Code that you linked to, didn’t you, that an accessory after the fact is limited to a sentence of half that of the actual perpetrator, right?)
May 14th, 2009 at 2:25 pmThat does not make her responsible for torture. And you do the process no favors by insisting otherwise.
thanks ralph.
and, what’s not repeated enough:
‘At everystep of the way, the [BUSH] administration was
MISLEADING THE CONGRESS’
May 14th, 2009 at 2:26 pmralph,
Yes, Pelosi WAS small fry in the sea back in 2002.
Today, not so much the small fry anymore.
R E M E M B E R:
Without Pelosi as Speaker of the House…
… Impeachment had a place at the table.
Is she not, also, playing a CYA?
Sure, in Nuremberg, all levels of involvement were investigated. Those at the top, those who devised the orders, those who carried them out, the lawyers who approved, the soldiers who followed the orders…
… NONE of it was deemed acceptable.
Now, I’m not suggesting that she IS THE guilty party in all of this. But I am stating that she is NOT an innocent player, either. And to look the other way only suggests that I, too, can become the Speaker of the House, see crimes committed and NOT have to act because if my political Party is in favor, I’ll have a Nation of followers propping me up. That’s all.
May 14th, 2009 at 2:29 pmThe reichwingnut talking heads have the mental midgets on the reich all wound up over a red herring. Keep in mind who was calling the shots back then. Nancy said they briefed her on the memos that gave them permission. Check out the timeline. The torture happened before the briefing and before the bogus memos of John Yoo and Bybee. Blaming Pleosi does not take the guilt away from the crime family who was committing the crimes. In other words for simple minds: If Nancy is guilty of anything, your crooks and thugs of the Bush Crime family are all going down because they committed thr crime and none of them raised a flag either. Think about it wingnuts.
May 14th, 2009 at 2:31 pmralph,
“(You did catch in the passage of the US Code that you linked to, didn’t you, that an accessory after the fact is limited to a sentence of half that of the actual perpetrator, right?)”
I never said otherwise.
May 14th, 2009 at 2:33 pmFor all you wingnuts who are still crying over impeachment: How large was the majority we had in the House from 2006? What was the majority we had in the Senate from 2006 to 2008? How much legislation was the GOP able to stonewall during that period? How successful would impeachment proceedings have been if tried? I rest my case.
May 14th, 2009 at 2:35 pmI was quite moved way back when, seeing Nancy Pelosi reaching the Speakerhood. It was quite a moment for women and for the nation.
But she has proven, IMO, to be an rather ineffective Speaker. If the torture memos are a way to replace her, I’d be OK with that.
And I am very much in favor of a process whereby we get full sunshine on the WHOLE torture picture. I’m not so sure about prosecutions.
I think Bybee should loose his judgeship, Cheney should not be able to travel beyond (as someone put it yesterday) “some undisclosed bit of sidewalk” in front of his home, and if Pelosi is directly implicated, she can return to private life (or be the 100,000th lobbyist).
May 14th, 2009 at 2:35 pmUpdate: Boehner’s credulousness is a freakin’ joke.
May 14th, 2009 at 2:38 pmOS Says:
Buckie Boy Says:
98 prisoners were beaten and tortured to DEATH.
Who fully intended to chop off your head or worse…..
Prove it. When was their trial? what evidence was presented? You’re sick OS. We did away with vigilantism back in the 1800’s (unless you were black and in the south). Just because someone was turned over to our troops it doesn’t mean they were guilty of anything you nazi.
May 14th, 2009 at 2:40 pmTransparency means more transparency than the last admin.
If we were to have complete transparency the US would be an open book.
So STFU with that useless argument about ***is this transparency?+++++or this winner%%%%%when does it end? You mean the President can pick and chose?
Well I hope he damn well do.
Get off the bs.
May 14th, 2009 at 2:42 pmAnd your proof of this is… ?
May 14th, 2009 at 2:42 pmPROVE IT!
May 14th, 2009 at 2:43 pmThe only difference between Pelosi being briefed while being minority whip and Boener being briefed while being minority whip is that Pelosi was briefed while the Bush/Cheney machine was in office.
’nuff said.
Pelosi already stated that she was briefed during a time when the american people were being actively deceived about WMD in Iraq. Obvious.
May 14th, 2009 at 2:43 pmPelosi can’t be guilty as an accessory unless those who were above her are guilty of war crimes. Does this mean the RepubliCONS are now ready to start investigations against the administration so they can link Pelosi to the crimes?
May 14th, 2009 at 2:45 pmAll Muslims are the same to you, right, OS?
One amorphous blob of terrorist intentions?
May 14th, 2009 at 2:48 pmWhy don’t you scared little torture advocating pansies move to a country where you’d feel more comfortable. Like Texas.
And get the hell out of here.
(Sorry X)
May 14th, 2009 at 2:48 pmOS, Ominously Subpar?
May 14th, 2009 at 2:49 pmI don’t care if Pelosi has to go because of what she knew. She is but a small domino and we need more dominoes to go down in order to topple the big dominoes. It will happen.
May 14th, 2009 at 2:53 pmPelosi is a liar. She needs to start apologizing now to Bush/Cheney.
May 14th, 2009 at 2:53 pmMax, I know your opposition to Speaker Pelosi is well-founded and rises from a deep disappointment in her performance.
The Right, on the other hand, desperately wants to drag the Democrats into the same slime pit that they dug for themselves and filled with their own spit and bile. Throwing as much of the blame for Torturegate onto Speaker Pelosi serves this purpose.
So while you and the Right have different motivations and different intentions, your action dovetails really nicely with theirs.
May 14th, 2009 at 2:57 pmkasinca,
You don’t know how far impeachment WOULD HAVE gotten because it was never allowed to go anywhere.
America was refused to hear from their House Representatives:
~ How LYING to the Senate is legal.
~ How outing a covert CIA Agent is legal
~ How TORTURE is legal
~ How warrantless spying on Americans is legal
And America never heard the Senate debate on these crimes.
Now that we are getting these debates, look at who, in Congress, is attempting to make some of these issues NOT about their legality, but instead, deflecting the legal debate into a debate of necessity vs. outcome.
HAD America had these debates back when it counted, today’s outcome would have been far different. Obama may not have signed legislation to cover for Corporate crime against the American People because by then, it would have been found a violation of the Constitution and the real criminals would have been held accountable…
… But people pandered to the argument that there wasn’t enough votes. Has that line ever changed?
.
May 14th, 2009 at 2:57 pmI think this debate is way off the mark. Waterbording? I personally wouldn’t take any prisoners. Dont you people have a clue as to the intentions of YOUR enemy. Why in the world are we so concerned about an enemy that will tear off limbs before they saw off your head in the name of Allah. You people are a bunch of phonies. As long as its not you or your family you have nothing to say of the brutality of of your enemy. Who cares what we have to do to gain information from these scum. Pelosi is a nut case.
May 14th, 2009 at 2:58 pmAll the Pelosi haters are forgetting the real criminal…the Bush Crime Family.
May 14th, 2009 at 2:58 pmOf course Nancy Pelosi knew what was going on. And she’s doing a poor job of denying it.
If she wants to continue calling what was done a crime, then she is an accomplice to a crime.
May 14th, 2009 at 2:59 pmRomartin16985 Says:
If she wants to continue calling what was done a crime, then she is an accomplice to a crime.
May 14th, 2009 at 3:03 pm———————————————————
If her knowing it was a crime makes her guilty of a crime, what does that do to Bush, Cheney, Alberto, John Yoo, Bybee, Condi, Porter Goss and the republican majority? Which of the rethuglicans stepped forward and raised a flag that a crime was being committed? I think you FAUX Rushpo clan are not very smart. She is calling for a truth commission so your scare tactics didn’t work. My advise is for wingnuts to lawyer up.
ralph,
I understand their deflection game…
… Protect the Bush/Cheney crime syndicate.
So, it’s not feeding the Right when you do it?
But when I question her inability to act, it is?
.
May 14th, 2009 at 3:05 pmYou ‘don’t seem to have a clue’ about what it means to be moral and decent. It’s not about them it’s about us.
May 14th, 2009 at 3:06 pm
A truth commission works for me, just as long as we get all the memos out and Democrats under oath as well!
May 14th, 2009 at 3:08 pmgtinformed Says:
that he is a sadistic fukwit who doesn’t have the brains to think things out completely.
No one knows if they are even guilty, fukwit.
May 14th, 2009 at 3:12 pmralph,
Pelosi was NOT acting as a common citizen of the USA even in 2002. Pelosi was acting as an Elected Official who was granted, by the average citizens of the USA, a sworn Oath of allegiance to the people from which she was elected to FAITHFULLY represent. She was bound then, in 2002, to act to protect the Law, not the man in High Office.
Her being elevated in 2006/07 to the High Office does, in no way, negate her responsibility to the Nation’s citizens. She obligated herself to act FAITHFULLY, WITHOUT MENTAL RESERVATIONS, OR A PURPOSE OF EVASION.
She broke that contract when she chose to remain silent!
Even today’s CYA is an attempt to shift her complicity back toward the High Officials who devised these programs, programs she was briefed on and refused to question their precedence. Facts are not in her favor. History is not in her favor. And yes, she does bear some responsibility. Not all, but some. That is where we agree.
May 14th, 2009 at 3:14 pmRomartin, your only concern on this issue is that Dems go down too?
Party above everything for you, right?
May 14th, 2009 at 3:16 pmReichwingnuts better lawyer up.
May 14th, 2009 at 3:20 pmOS, are you a white right-winger?
Yes, well so is Eric Rudolph:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Robert_Rudolph
So, by your logic you are a terrorist.
May 14th, 2009 at 3:21 pmBucky,
I seem to have heard a lot of yelling of “torture!”, “criminals!”, “jail them!”, from the left directed towards the Bush administration. I don’t believe a crime was committed, but many here do. Whatever it was, she was in on it and she needs to be included!
And no Spring,
I care about politicians playing political games with our national security. Call me suspicious, but I am concerned that since one party has power in both the senate and the house, and the Presidency, they will take care of their own.
May 14th, 2009 at 3:26 pmCome on, Max, be adult here. The difference between what I am saying and what you are saying is this:
I’m saying the Speaker of the House has been deeply disappointing in her performance and in her unwillingness to counterbalance the Bush administration.
You’re saying she is every bit as guilty as they are in crimes that they committed, justified and authorized, just by being briefed on some aspects of the program.
I’m not abetting the right wing’s attempts to shove the blame off on a Democrat. In my opinion, you are abetting them because your criticisms are over the top. You’re not simply “questioning her inability to act”. You’re accusing her of (again, in my opinion) a much larger share of the blame for this travesty than her actions, or lack of action would warrant.
May 14th, 2009 at 3:27 pmIndeed you are.
May 14th, 2009 at 3:27 pmThere is no deflection game.
Nancy Pelosi was not an innocent bystander, with no power. She was a member of Congress!
Congress had to authorize funding for what was done!!!
May 14th, 2009 at 3:31 pmTrolls are so stupid. Nobody here is a fan of Pelosi. If she is 100% innocent we’d gladly sacrifice her to convict Bush and Cheney etal. What a bunch of fools.
May 14th, 2009 at 3:32 pmIf by “in on it” you mean she was briefed on classified information that may or may not have accurately depicted the program, then sure. Prosecute her to the fullest extent of the law.
But consider how much culpability is due the minority leader who was briefed by the administration and then compare that to the culpability of the administration itself — the group that designed, implemented and then sculpted legal justification for the program.
We know that, since you guys got yourselves covered in thick, clingy sewage, you want to tag others so that, by comparison, you don’t smell so bad. But you gotta realize that either way, you’re gonna stink to high heaven.
May 14th, 2009 at 3:32 pmActually, it’s common knowledge that you’re a cowardly racist crybaby victim who believes that anything a Republican does is great because it’s a Republican and anything a Democrat does is terrible because it’s a Democrat. You’re a partisan hack, an idiot, a loser, and a simp. You have no moral compass. You prove it every time you post here under your many stupid names. You wish you could go to war with the left but you don’t have the guts. You’re a joke.
LOL.
May 14th, 2009 at 3:34 pm“Pelosi: ‘At Every Step Of The Way, The Administration Was Misleading The Congress’”
As I recall, back in 2001 and on thru 2008, the dems were not included in decision making and literally left in the dark.
An example would be the dem meeting in a small room out of outrage of being excluded where the lights and mics were purposely turned off by goppers.
May 14th, 2009 at 3:34 pmWingnuts have the ability to look at the criminals in their party, deny that their actions are criminal and blame someone else as if they were the culprits. All this chaos over Nancy Pelosi is ignoring the facts. Watch some intelligent people analyze this details tonight on MSNBC. Keith and Rachel will break this down into a timeline and have witnesses backing it up. The rest of you listen to drug addled gas bags and FAUX lunatics just throw out misinformation and inuendo. You should all mature a little and allow the process to happen. It is obvious to me that the Speaker called their bluff and I have no reason to think that she does not have the resources to back her statements. Let it happen. The Republicans were in the process of justifying a unilateral invasion of Iraq when this was taking place. Remember the lies about Valerie Plame and yellowcake uranium? Why would I trust the crime family?
May 14th, 2009 at 3:35 pmCan anyone translate Gibberish? I can make out a word or two, but this is an obscure Troll dialect that I haven’t encountered before.
May 14th, 2009 at 3:36 pm“There are a lot of people in this country who genuinely believe that torture opponents are “not upset” about things like 9/11 or the beheading of American hostages. The idea that “no one complains when Americans are murdered” is crazy — of course we “complained,” and of course we’d all like to round up those machete-wielding monsters and shoot them into space — but these people really believe this, they really believe that torture opponents are secretly unimpressed/untroubled by Islamic terrorism, at least as compared to American “enhanced interrogation.” For them to believe that, they must really believe that such people are traitors, nursing a secret agenda (an agenda perhaps unknown even to themselves, their America-hatred being ingrained so deep) against their own country. Which is really an amazing thing for large numbers of Americans to believe about another large group of Americans, when you think about it.”
http://trueslant.com/matttaibbi/2009/05/11/torture-is-fun/
May 14th, 2009 at 3:36 pmHa! Now maybe she WAS briefed, but she was lied to by that evil Bush administration!
- OR -
Even if she was briefed, with no lying by the Bush administration, she’s less guilty because after all she wasn’t the President!
Okay, just as long as she’s under oath too!
May 14th, 2009 at 3:37 pmAre you trying to imply that, if she was briefed, that would make her just as guilty as or more than the President who authorized the program?
Seriously?
May 14th, 2009 at 3:38 pmThat would be for the courts or commissions to decide after hearing what she has to say under oath of course!
May 14th, 2009 at 3:39 pmAfter all, she did PAY for the program (technically authorized us to pay for it…..)
May 14th, 2009 at 3:41 pmWhy did the crime family destroy all the tapes of the torture interrogations? Just asking. Why did the crime family need the permission slip from Bybee and Yoo to torture? The memos were written after said torture has already taken place.
May 14th, 2009 at 3:43 pmOS, my point is that just because they are Muslim and in our custody doesn’t mean that they are terrorists, hell-bent on decapitating you. There have been much bad intel and mistaken identity and many cases of people making crap up to cash in on the Al Qaeda bounties that the US offered.
In fact of the 775 detainees brought to Gitmo, 420 have been released without charge.
May 14th, 2009 at 3:45 pmhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guantanamo_Bay_detention_camp
Umm… no, she didn’t. That would be the Republican leadership who took the budgets proposed by the President and crafted them to their liking before passing them in both chambers and sending them on the President to sign.
May 14th, 2009 at 3:46 pmspring heeled jack, trying to explain your point to Obviously Stupid is like trying to explain String Theory to a German Shepherd puppy.
May 14th, 2009 at 3:47 pmShe was in the minority party. Then everybody from the majority is guilty of paying for it too. Good, let’s throw them all in jail.
May 14th, 2009 at 3:48 pmI’ll take my chances with physics and the pupy. You take Other Species.
May 14th, 2009 at 3:53 pmSo now even though she may have been briefed and NOT lied to by the evil Bush administration, AND even though she was a member of Congress who authorizes any spending by our federal government, she is not involved because those evil Republicans took over and left her out of the loop.
I don’t recall any hullabaloo from her against spending money on criminal torture programs that Republicans were fighting to fund!
May 14th, 2009 at 3:55 pm“House Minority Leader John Boehner (R-OH) insisted that intelligence officials would never mislead any member of Congress”
boner needs to STFU since the rest of us remember the intel reports about saddam hussein shopping for yellowcake uranium in niger reports.
May 14th, 2009 at 4:00 pmRomartin16985 Says:
“I don’t recall any hullabaloo from her against spending money on criminal torture programs that Republicans were fighting to fund!”
hey assclown, exactly where would illegal classified information such as that be listed in the budget?
May 14th, 2009 at 4:01 pmOkay, Bozo, so the money was spent in such a way that no Democrats were aware of what was going on, only those evil Republicans.
Another reason to get her under oath.
And go soak your head, you’re the clown.
May 14th, 2009 at 4:06 pmRomartin16985,
May 14th, 2009 at 4:08 pmi, like many progressives say step right up. if they are guilty of implementing a policy of torture and that includes nancy pelosi then they should go under oath. by the way, when’s 43 and dickhead cheney going to finally put their hands on a bible?
Hopefully Obama and his goons will consider waterboarding Pelosi to get the facts out of her. Then everyone who doubted the technique will be able to see that useful intel can be readily obtained in a simple, safe, and effective manner.
May 14th, 2009 at 4:08 pmand the question remains, Romartin16985, where exactly in the budget would one ask for money for a classifed program? afterall, the budget is a public record.
May 14th, 2009 at 4:09 pmDon’t Be A Jackass Says:
May 14th, 2009 at 4:11 pm“i failed with my monicker because i am a jackass”
clown,
That’s your question you go figure it out. The fact that it happened shows it was paid for. Just because a program is classified doesn’t mean Pelosi had no knowledge, she was on the intel committee!
Oh, maybe the Republicans used Bush family money to pay for it, huh?
May 14th, 2009 at 4:16 pmThis is a lame straw man.
First, you presume that your conditions (”may have been briefed and NOT lied to”) are true, without cause.
Second, you attribute to us (collectively) the attitude that IF your conditions are true, we would still say “she is not involved”.
Perhaps this is projection on your part, in that such would be your attitude if the parties were reversed. But it’s not what anyone here is saying, only what you would like us to be saying because it would make your argument more persuasive.
You still have not answered my question from 206.
You said in an apparent paraphrase of this straw man left wing position:
Is this meant to imply that the second possibility is untrue? In other words, are you trying to say that the House Minority leader, if she was briefed completely and accurately by the administration, is thus every bit as guilty as those who designed, implemented and authorized the program?
May 14th, 2009 at 4:16 pmThe anatomy of a Pelosi smear campaign. Why does the media always buy into these horsesheit GOP straw man distractions? All roads lead to Bush/Cheney. All the GOP is trying to do is distract attention away from that!
May 14th, 2009 at 4:19 pmOS wasn’t always known as OS. Born as POS, he later became known as OS when the P ran down his leg. Still called a POS by those who know him.
May 14th, 2009 at 4:19 pmHmm… I seem to recall one of our dimmer lights making a point a while back about insults…
Oh yeah…
Curious… perhaps our friend Romartin has discovered that insults are really the way to go?
May 14th, 2009 at 4:22 pmHoly Crap! It’s rare to see such a trollfest when the subject isn’t Lush Rimjob or FAUX.
May 14th, 2009 at 4:25 pmBoy you are sensitive and hold a grudge locust.
I would think “Go soak your head” is pretty tame compared to what I’ve been called here.
May 14th, 2009 at 4:26 pmRomartin16985 Says:
“That’s your question you go figure it out.”
yet another republiclown who i made my punk-assed beyotch. whattsa matta lil girl, can’t back up the crap you spew?
May 14th, 2009 at 4:30 pmthank for the laugh
Hold a grudge? Let’s just say I like to hold people accountable for what they post.
Perhaps “go soak your head” is lame, but it IS an insult, is it not?
Or is this one of your “technicalities” that don’t count as insults?
So… no go on getting my question answered from 206?
May 14th, 2009 at 4:31 pmwhat Romartin16985 doesn’t seem to understanding is progressive really aren’t into protecting someone based on their party affiliation. if the guilt is pointing to them, tell it to the judge.
but these half-veiled pseudothreats and innuendo coming from the right are so 8th grade
May 14th, 2009 at 4:34 pmI did answer your post 206 locust. Courts or commissions make those determinations.
But don’t worry, since this can’t be blamed only on Republicans it most likely will not get that far.
If you look back you’ll notice that the clown was quite rude to me first!
May 14th, 2009 at 4:41 pmIsn’t it odd? How can our trolls be so certain that their GOP would never lie while assuming anything a Dem says must be a lie?
What I find doubly odd is that they make these statements while the Dems are giving some lip-service to investigations while the GOP claims there’s nothing to investigate.
Not to mention the utter contempt for law the GOoPers have shown by rejecting subpoenas and the stuff already released that clearly demonstrates that Bushco did everything in their power to muddy the waters.
The compartmentalization of the authoritarian mind never ceases to amaze me.
May 14th, 2009 at 4:42 pmFirst of all, you gave no indication when you made that post what you were responding to.
Second, i didn’t ask for a cop-out. You paraphrased what you figured (wrongly) is our opinion — that the Minority Leader is less guilty than President in such a scenario as you portray.
Is it your opinion that this is mistaken? (Which would mean, obviously that she is at least AS GUILTY as the man who authorized the abuses.)
Man up and tell us where you stand.
May 14th, 2009 at 4:51 pmI see,. So your philosophy is “two wrongs make it right”.
Gotcha.
May 14th, 2009 at 4:54 pmRomartin, so as soon as a Democrat was implicated in this, enhanced interrogation became torture in your mind?
May 14th, 2009 at 4:58 pmPELOSI, the former Bush’s Enabler, now PELOSI the finger pointer…
May 14th, 2009 at 5:09 pmFor all you crime family apologists and Pelosi haters I am posting a link that is interesting read and a good listen as well. If you have the propensity to think, you should back off and consider the lies of the crime family and what is being uncovered here.
http://rawstory.com/08/news/2009/05/14/senator-says-cia-made-up-dates-of-torture-briefings-then-admitted-it/#
May 14th, 2009 at 5:17 pmOS Says:
——————————————————————————–
420 have been released without charge.
Troll, you failed to mention how many of them were recaptured making bombs, or killing, again. Any reason?
==========================================================
This has been disproven.
May 14th, 2009 at 5:22 pmlocust,
I wish you were as interested in finding out what Pelosi knew when, as you are about my so called insults.
No spring, it never was torture to me. My point was that since many here call what was done torture, which is a crime, then Ms. Pelosi may be guilty of being part of a crime. I believe she is guilty of lying to the public, and playing politics with our national security, not torture.
May 14th, 2009 at 5:26 pmHow many, OS? You tell me, with a link too.
May 14th, 2009 at 5:26 pmIsn’t that cute? The troll calls us trolls. I guess that’s what happens when you give someone access to a keyboard without teaching them critical thinking skills first.
But please, OS, why don’t you tell us how many were recaptured making bombs? With links and substantiation, of course.
May 14th, 2009 at 5:27 pm18 released prisoners have allegedly committed acts of terrorism and another 43 are suspected of “anti-American” activities. Though those “anti-American” activities seem to be as simple as saying they are against the policies of the U.S. which doesn’t seem to be unreasonable among people who were unlawfully imprisoned for years. If all of those have indeed returned to active terrorist activities? That’s a little under 4% of those released.
Plus, some of those were released because the Bush Administration allowed practices that made it illegal to hold them.
May 14th, 2009 at 5:31 pmSo, Romartin, kinda sounds like you’re unwilling to answer a direct question.
maybe it was the way i phrased it. I’ll rephrase it for you:
You said,
Even if she was briefed, with no lying by the Bush administration, she’s less guilty because after all she wasn’t the President!
Now, using clues from the way you structured your post, and from your previously displayed attitude, it seemed to me that you were ridiculing this opinion.
My question to you is, what is your opinion?
If the then-Minority Leader was briefed fully and accurately by the administration, does this make her as responsible for the policy as the President is, and equally subject to any legal fallout?
Or is she less responsible than the President is?
May 14th, 2009 at 5:32 pmI don’t like Nancy Pelosi and never have but, I don’t think she’s stupid. She made a very serious charge that the CIA, on Bushco’s orders, lied in a briefing of Congressional Representatives.
Like her, or not, I think it’s highly unlikely she would make such a charge if there were not witnesses and/or documents that support her statements. And, given the various revelations we’ve already seen about Bushco’s general level of honesty with the American people and our Senators and Representatives, I have little problem believing they would dissemble on this issue.
May 14th, 2009 at 5:40 pmRomartin, I’m not sure if I get you–you are arguing about a hypothetical crime, some sort of indulgence to us liberals? And your man, Cheney, wrote the book on politicizing national security, old boy!
May 14th, 2009 at 5:43 pmRomartin, your hatred of the Democratic Party and Nancy Pelosi is so extreme that you will seemingly concede a major point ie we don’t torture just to tear her down.
Like I said, Party over principle.
May 14th, 2009 at 5:58 pmSee number 245, stupid troll. 18 “confirmed cases” though it doesn’t say whether any of them have actually been arrested for killing or building bombs.
May 14th, 2009 at 6:05 pmReally.
May 14th, 2009 at 6:19 pmdo you see Pelosi calling for an investigation?
May 14th, 2009 at 6:33 pmOkay so how many of you actually know what pelosi was told? Obviously if she was complicit she should be dealt with but until there is conclusive evidence and not the word of some scum bag Republicans saying she knew, leave her alone.
May 14th, 2009 at 6:49 pmtrollspotter, xisithrus, chiroptera toasterhead, you guys had some interesting feedback on the torturing topic. Please enlighten me on the traditional techniques of interrogation. The last I checked, the enemy Arab Muslim community in Iraq figured out that chopping off heads works against their image as a peaceful sensible people but I think when our soldiers are captured today, they just kill them and leave the body together. More acceptible don’t you think? Now understand I can identify a little with the issue as when I went to go visit the site of my ancestors in Teotihuacan Mexico, the steps are still colored red with blood of all the sacrifices they pulled off. This was very unsightly to the Spaniards according to the scholars and tour guides. Here’s my point though. Is war not war? People getting their pantees in a knot over this stuff is silly. I can say this about the interogation training I received from an unnamed government agency. The more you get beat up the less you have to say cause you’re too focused on the pain. Those Al Quada boys are tough though, they can take the pain and look forward to it. Trust ME!
May 14th, 2009 at 6:58 pmI just wish for once the Dems would say “LIED” instead of “misled”.
Words have power. Use them.
May 14th, 2009 at 6:58 pmlocust.
To answer your question, all things being equal, yes, a President who was a party to the same crime as a Congressperson (again, to me there was no crime committed by President Bush or Pelosi) would be more guilty morally to me – would he be legally more guilty? I don’t know that would be up to the courts.
I don’t want the fact that “the buck stops with the President” to leave Pelosi in the clear.
May 14th, 2009 at 7:13 pm@ RHS:
Sorry. Didn’t mean to tar you with Boehner’s affliction. That said, there’s “stupidity”. And then there’s “stoopidity”.
Cheers,
May 14th, 2009 at 7:27 pmSheepdog Says:
“…Those Al Quada boys are tough though, they can take the pain and look forward to it.”
Then why stoop to their level and give them pain? The mistreatment of prisoners creates more enemies and diminishes us amongst our allies. It has not been shown to have “saved us” from anything and, it’s becoming more apparent that we were trying to coerce captives into providing a link, which never existed, between Saddam and the 9/11 attackers.
The Germans and Japanese were far greater enemies than a bunch of guys in caves yet we defeated them, and gained their respect, by treating prisoners with honor. In fact, our treatment of prisoners is largely responsible for turning our former enemies into allies and trading partners.
May 14th, 2009 at 8:11 pmAre we supposed to believe that the prisoners at Guantanamo represented every threat to the U.S.?
May 14th, 2009 at 8:17 pmWell, Romartin, it took some cajoling and some prodding, but I finally got you to answer a direct question. You didn’t answer it very succinctly, and you made sure to try to tar the then-Minority Leader with whatever sewer glop is dripping off your Carharts, but I did it. I actually got you to admit that the perpetrator of a crime bears more responsibility for that crime than one who merely was briefed on it after the fact.
But… if as you insist “there was no crime committed by President bush”, then why wouldn’t Speaker Pelosi be left “in the clear”?
May 14th, 2009 at 8:42 pmFormer Sen. Bob Graham backs Pelosi account:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/05/14/graham-cia-gave-me-false_n_203683.html
May 14th, 2009 at 8:51 pmBob Graham has shown more courage and wisdom as an ex-Senator than almost anyone currently serving in that august body.
May 14th, 2009 at 8:55 pmIf you look back locust you’ll see I did answer your question a few times, you just didn’t get it until I broke it down for you.
Have you not heard of political consequences?!
Go talk to someone else, ask them to fill in some blanks for you, I’ve had it.
May 14th, 2009 at 9:19 pmNo, Romartin, you didn’t ever say, “all things being equal, yes, a President who was a party to the same crime as a Congressperson (again, to me there was no crime committed by President Bush or Pelosi) would be more guilty morally to me – would he be legally more guilty? I don’t know that would be up to the courts” before this point.
You actually took a loooooong way to say this time that the President who authorized a criminal act was more guilty than someone whom the law would view as an accessory, but it’s clear that you didn’t want to say so — as evidenced by your continued “that’s for the courts to decide” cop-out when I asked your opinion.
All in all, you gave a pretty sucky performance on this issue. Weak, unfocused (by design, I’m guessing) and rambling. Your unfounded claim that you answered a couple of times only makes you look sillier. Although I’m willing to reconsider that assessment if you can point to and quote the other times you say you answered the question — and cop-outs don’t count.
May 14th, 2009 at 11:19 pmSorry ralph, I had to leave for work.
I’m not going to choose sides here. I refuse to play the Republican vs. Democrat blame game on this. To me, this is not about partisan politics but instead about how the USA treats people in their custody. So what if the Republicans wish to pin it on Pelosi. America knows she only sat there and said nothing while High Officials did the “deciding” on these matters. However, when Nancy was briefed that waterboarding, as she said, “MIGHT” be used, she and the others there had the opportunity to react. But did they?
I’m not going to quote Rove’s article in the WSJ from the other day but instead lets look farther back in time and discover when America knew of her role in this matter and to what degree..
From Dec. 2007
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/12/9/131614/876/166/419857
http://www.rawstory.com/news/2007/Pelosi_did_not_object_to_waterboarding_1209.html
… Funny, Jane “Spy baby, spy” Harman’s name keeps popping up.
Great, Nancy’s saying something now about being mislead. But the real question remains, why speak out now? Her constituents and the Nation have been on this for years and she has refused to address the matter, until now. Refused to even entertain accountability of illegal actions. Refused to investigate the criminality of TORTURE. But now she speaks out…
… WHY NOW?
I suspect that someone else is placing a hot coal under her butt. Why else would she care, now? She hasn’t before. Why the change of heart?
Yep, I’m p*ssed. And I would be just as p!ssed if it were Dennis Hastert or any other Speaker of the House who chose to do nothing. Her being a Democrat changes nothing in my eye. I burned that Democratic Party card years ago.
As I see it, when she chose to take accountability away from the Judiciary, she laid the cover. And now, she’s playing ‘cover your behind’.
A legend of a man once said, “See, you can fool me once, you just can’t get fooled again.” Little did he know that his misspeaking skills would come to be a national motto for how the Nation looks at his legendary illegalities and the motley crew of supporters who either conspired to assist or lay cover.
Sorry Nancy, you do not fool me anymore.
ralph, that’s how I see it.
May 15th, 2009 at 12:52 amI still stand by my call from 2007, to impeach the House Speaker, Nancy “Off the Table” Pelosi for obstruction of the People’s Justice. When this all plays out, in the end, America will be better off for it’s ability to be intolerant of criminal behavior, no matter the extent. A Government that abides by the Rule of Law requires accountability of all players involved in illegal actions. Anything less, and the Rule of Law be damned.
.
Q U E S T I O N:
When this issue came up in 2007, why didn’t she say then, that she had been lied to?
.
May 15th, 2009 at 1:11 am.
Dear Sheepdog @#225,
So that makes TORTURE acceptable? Because the enemy does it too? Then, aren’t you measuring your success by what the enemy does, or does not do? Who then, is the dog and who is the tail?
The moment you measure your success or failure by what your enemy does is the moment your enemy dictates the terms.
OBL would be so proud.
R E M E M B E R:
THEY(sic) HATE US FOR OUR FREEDOMS, OUR WAY OF LIFE…
… And so THEY(sic) have lobbied, debated and legislated away our foundational principles so as to form some temporary sense of security.
.
May 15th, 2009 at 1:24 amIf Pelosi wants us to believe her, all she has to do is publicly support an independent prosecutor and independent investigation. If she is not lying, this should exhonerate her.
May 15th, 2009 at 6:39 amUh Max-Anus,
When this issue came up in 2007, why didn’t she say then, that she had been lied to?
Because it was classified, and the CIA “briefings” “never took place” (nudge, nudge, wink, wink) that is why there are no written records and or video of them. Nor can the CIA even get its act together with WHEN they supposedly “briefed” B. Gramm or Pelosi. I predict the CIA will be dismantled over this.
It is a ridiculous notion to be saying
:Oh Pelosi is complicit, so there should be no investigations, or trials.”
BVLLSHIT!!
This is MORE reason for getting to the bottom of this pile of SH|T bush and cheney dragged this country into.
And payback is a beotch georgie and dickie.
Arrest, try and HANG these muddafuggas. If the country won’t do it, I a few million of us citizens will.
May 15th, 2009 at 9:06 amBecause she’s a coward.
May 15th, 2009 at 10:24 amJay Leno summed this up brilliantly last night…
Jay Leno: “Oh, and speaking of torture, I love this. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi now says the CIA and President Bush misled her on waterboarding. Yeah. Apparently she was misled by the Bush Administration. So she spends eight years telling everybody how dumb President Bush is, and the minute they’re in trouble, ‘He fooled me! I had no idea! He tricked me!’”
So I ask … WHO IS THE REAL DUMB ONE? Pelosi or Bush?
Pelosi is a liar.
May 15th, 2009 at 10:59 amMAX ANUS and PETE, I understand your point about torturing and diminishing returns. But understand the difference with the Militant Arab Muslim Warrior. They love the fact that we’re fighting amongst ourselves about this so called level of torture. Kind of like your child if he/she ever figures out that Mommy and Daddy give different answers when asked for something they want but shouldn’t have. We’ve hardly stooped in comparison to the savagery faced by the American Soldier when captured by these guys. Our government for example is telling our soldiers after there interogation training is over, “All this training may not work however with the ARAB MUSLIM Warrior Enemy”. In the big game of War, we’ve only slapped these Arabs hands in comparison. Today they get to have prayer rugs in their cells, a copy of the Koran, 3 hots and cots, yard time just like any American Inmate and furthermore, the torturing is over. We only unleashed on these SOB’s for a certain period. After a few months, we got all we could out of them and they know it. They’re too disconnected after that to have any other useful information. For people to be this concerned is just amazingly naive and stupid. On the other hand we have rightfully crucified the soldiers who’ve violated the theatre ROE, rules of engagement. You can be proud of that!!! Servicemen are ambassadors just the way good cops are in a neighborhood and it behooves anyone over there to think smart and fast before they shoot!
May 15th, 2009 at 5:24 pm