GOP Senator Leading Attacks Against Health Care Reform Admits Gitmo Detainees Get Better Care Than Americans
GOP Senator Leading Attacks Against Health Care Reform Admits Gitmo Detainees Get Better Care Than Americans
Last week, Sen. John Ensign (R-NV) visited the prison at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba and declared that even if detainees are held without charge, they should remain at Guantanamo “until the war against terrorism ends.” “They are like having Charles Manson times whatever factor — these people are so dangerous,” Ensign said.
Ensign said that Guantanamo seemed so appealing to him that it would be “hard to imagine” why anyone would want to close the facility. When making this argument, however, Ensign inadvertently made a case for health care reform:
“It is hard to imagine why we would ever think about closing the Guantanamo Bay detention facility,” Ensign said. “I walked away very proud of what our troops are doing down there. I think any American would be proud as well.”
Ensign said the facilities at Gitmo are nicer than prisons in the United States, and said the food detainees were served was better than what he and the traveling lawmakers ate. “They get better health care than the average American citizen does,” Ensign said.
Guantanamo detainees receive care that is “as good as or better than anything we would offer our own soldiers, sailors, airmen or Marines,” the general in charge of Guantanamo has said. (Veterans care is widely considered the best health care available.) Guantanamo reportedly has 19 in-patient beds, a physical-therapy area, pharmacy, radiology department, central sterilization area, an operating room, and available psychiatric care. Notably, Michael Moore made the same argument in his movie, Sicko.
While Ensign inadvertently admitted to the dismal nature of American health care, he is currently the leader of the Republican Policy Committee (RPC), which is working to derail President Obama’s health care reforms. The AP reported this month that “Senate Republicans are already seeking and getting detailed advice on the best way to attack” Obama’s plan, and the RPC is soliciting advice from health care obstructionist Frank Luntz:
The suggestions are contained in a 28-page presentation by Frank Luntz. … Luntz reviewed his recommendations Wednesday with aides to conservative Republicans in a session organized by the Republican Policy Committee, headed by Sen. John Ensign, R-Nev. A copy was obtained by The Associated Press.
“The policy committee brings in all kinds of people. He presented us with ways to communicate better and we listened,” said Rebecca Fisher, a spokeswoman for the group.
Much more on conservative obstruction of Obama’s health care plan in today’s Progress Report.
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Nice leis Johny boy! Where do I get one of those? Punk!
May 18th, 2009 at 6:48 pm“They get better health care than the average American citizen does,” Ensign said.
– - Yeah, but their co-pay is a complete loss of freedom. That’s some restrictive HMO they got.
May 18th, 2009 at 6:50 pmquestion for senator ensign:
why are you clowns so gung-ho about providing universal healthcare courtesy of the american taxpayer’s nickel to the iraqis yet refuse to provide it to your constituents?
May 18th, 2009 at 6:54 pmThe GITMO prisoners are getting socialized medicine just like our soldiers do, Luntz? Do tell!
May 18th, 2009 at 6:55 pmThe medics are busy down there. Here’s a good reason to close Gitmo, Don Ho:
http://www.alternet.org/rights/140022/little_known_military_thug_squad_still_brutalizing_prisoners_at_gitmo_under_obama/
May 18th, 2009 at 6:58 pmOur constitution is in a coma and the doctor is playing golf with the healthcare lobbyist.
May 18th, 2009 at 7:01 pmI know if I were kidnapped, sold for a bounty to a foreign army, and imprisoned, I would forgive it all for that Navy chow and free medical care.
May 18th, 2009 at 7:08 pmThe industry titans “pledge” only to slow the growth of health care spending, not reign in the already accumulated monstrosity of costs and not with the force of law. If dems were to lose power tomorrow, they would renege on that pledge in a heartbeat. They would rather pay chump change to scrape dead people off the streets than to give up their massive profits.
Read, Sen. Ensign, and brush it off in the name of “freedom.” Are those deposits in your campaign chest really worth it?
May 18th, 2009 at 7:10 pmWell, they need good medical…
….after the torture sessions.
Fcuk the Republic Fascist Party
May 18th, 2009 at 7:11 pmThey get better health care than the average American citizen does,
That’s kind of hard to reconcile against the best health care system in the world(tm).
May 18th, 2009 at 7:15 pmIs that a terrorist fist pump ?
May 18th, 2009 at 7:18 pmI have great healthcare, but I actually worked hard to get where I am and gained marketable skills along the way.
May 18th, 2009 at 7:19 pm#11,
No. You need an AK-47 before it becomes a terrorist fist pump. Give him time – he’s still learning.
May 18th, 2009 at 7:22 pmI think that if the congress lets the ball drop on this one, there will be a revolution!
May 18th, 2009 at 7:22 pmJohnM Says:
I have great healthcare, but I actually worked hard to get where I am and gained marketable skills along the way.
– - Well, JohnM, the Gitmo detainees may have the same attitude as you.
May 18th, 2009 at 7:23 pmI worked hard too. That is why I am happy to be taxed more to assist those who have been less fortunate than I…
May 18th, 2009 at 7:25 pm——————————————————————————–
Badmoodman Says:
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JohnM Says:
I have great healthcare, but I actually worked hard to get where I am and gained marketable skills along the way.
- – Well, JohnM, the Gitmo detainees may have the same attitude as you.
Maybe they do…different path…same result.
May 18th, 2009 at 7:25 pm——————————————————————————–
dbadass Says:
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I worked hard too. That is why I am happy to be taxed more to assist those who have been less fortunate than I…
Are you happy to be taxed more to assist those that don’t work as hard as you?
May 18th, 2009 at 7:25 pmFollow The Steps To Being A Good Republican:
Step 1: Open mouth
May 18th, 2009 at 7:26 pmStep 2: Insert foot
Step 3: Think (optional)
Step 4: Remove Foot
Step 5: Blame Media (other than FNC) for putting foot in your mouth
Step 6: Have FNC continue to blame the media for shoving your foot in your mouth.
“They are like having Charles Manson times whatever factor — these people are so dangerous,” Ensign said.
And yet Charles Manson still remains behind bars and is a danger to no one.
Nice try with the false equivalent, though!
PEACE
May 18th, 2009 at 7:27 pmI worked hard, have good health insurance, and, just like JohnM, will have to fight to get anything paid for if I come to need it.
He’s just too ignorant to realize it.
May 18th, 2009 at 7:27 pmHilarious that right wingers think the factory owner works harder than the dock loader
May 18th, 2009 at 7:28 pmJohnM, good for you. Hopefully you don’t lose your job and get screwed on healthcare like some 40+ million other Americans who also worked hard as well.
May 18th, 2009 at 7:28 pmWell, it would be hilarious if it wasn’t so damaging to our economy
May 18th, 2009 at 7:29 pmAre you happy to be taxed more to assist those that don’t work as hard as you?
—
May 18th, 2009 at 7:29 pmSure why not? Who am I to judge the efforts on another. Besides it is im my best interest to have a healthy society as it benefits us all. I’d rather spend less up front rather than more later…
RantingTommy Says:
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I worked hard, have good health insurance, and, just like JohnM, will have to fight to get anything paid for if I come to need it.
He’s just too ignorant to realize it.
What is wrong with fighting to pay your own way?
May 18th, 2009 at 7:29 pmpax Says: #14
Notice that Jesse Ventura is making the rounds again? I’d love to hear some republican call him out. It’ll never happen because of the chickenshits that they are. Jesse Ventura 2012!
May 18th, 2009 at 7:30 pmrepublicans hate facts Says:
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JohnM Says:
Are you happy to be taxed more to assist those that don’t work as hard as you?
What an elitist and hateful attitude. You immoral CONS never cease to amaze me. *POOR* people work longer hours and more difficult jobs than “fortunate” people like yourself. Yet you continue to disparage the less fortunate. You selfish b*st*rds need to STFU and honor your obligations to society.
I have had many crappy jobs and worked my way up, gained the education and skills needed. I shouldn’t have to pay for people that are unwilling to do the same.
May 18th, 2009 at 7:30 pmJohnM, doing his best parody of a right wing “thought”, misses the point:
Everyone thinks they have good insurance (that has any), until it comes time to make a claim.
May 18th, 2009 at 7:30 pmI have had many crappy jobs and worked my way up, gained the education and skills needed. I shouldn’t have to pay for people that are unwilling to do the same.
May 18th, 2009 at 7:32 pm________________________________________
So you started as a fry cook and now work the register and the window. big deal.
right wingers think every man is an island and living in a healthy, educated society has nothing to do with their success
May 18th, 2009 at 7:32 pmWhat our stupid troll, and Reichwhiners in general, fail to comprehend is that the best argument for health care reform is the benefit to the economy in general.
Today, the burden falls on businesses, including the sacred “small businesses” they squawk about. American businesses are in the death grip of the health insurance industry. An industry which, frankly, adds nothing to the productivity of our economy.
Reichwhiners are fond of shouting “freedom!”. However, their resolve fails when we follow that to it’s logical conclusion of “freedom from a wasteful gang of professional gamblers who merely raise the stakes when their profits fail to soar“.
May 18th, 2009 at 7:34 pmrepublicans hate facts Says:
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JohnM Says:
What is wrong with fighting to pay your own way?
What’s wrong with helping out people that are working a lot harder than you are and still can’t afford to pay their own way? What’s wrong with helping people that “CAN’T” work hard? What’s wrong with helping people that simply “NEED” help. Did you sleep through those religious lessons about “Charity” and “giving” you selfish f*KKKer?
I do give to charity, I actually gave nearly $12k to charity last year to causes that I felt were valid. I don’t believe that throwing money at people that are unwilling to help themselves actually helps them. It makes them dependent and worse off in the long run.
May 18th, 2009 at 7:35 pmrepublicans hate facts Says:
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JohnM Says:
I have had many crappy jobs and worked my way up, gained the education and skills needed. I shouldn’t have to pay for people that are unwilling to do the same.
So now you’ve GOT YOURS and everyone else can F*KKK off if they aren’t as “LUCKY” as you are? How “SPECIAL” of you.
So while those people are “WORKING” their way up and get sick and become so riddled with debt because of it, just bad luck? F*KKK them?
What a “GENEROUS” attitude you have, you hateful little pr*ck.
Nope I never got anything from the government as far as assistance or healthcare.
May 18th, 2009 at 7:36 pmEnsign said. “I walked away very proud of what our troops are doing down there. I think any American would be proud as well.”
Of course he is proud; he is phucking GnoPer, but I hate having him say that any Anerican would be proud – because I’m one American who is NOT PROUD OF ANYTHING AFFILLATED WITH GITMO.
Then knowing that congress has the VERY BEST HEALTHCARE INSURANCE socialized by taxpayers, but these bast*rds will do anything to keep us from getting what they and their families have and don’t even want to give us any type of a public system such as Medicare to all of us.
They have no problems taking ALL the benefits they get from taxpayers, but GD if they want any of us – the very people they are supposed to be looking out for; i.e., their constitutents – to receive anything to help make our lives easier, they just can’t do that. So from what I gather, we give and give and these congresionals take and take and then leave us with bsically nothing to help us – this is wrong and it must change now in support of helping us. Ensign is tryig hard to make Gitmo appear like a luxury hot spa with good food and lovely scenery while stating all of us would be qute happy living there. But a better solution would be to have him and the GOP stay there indefinitely and we’ll let them know when things change and they can leave. Kinda like an indefinite holiday! Don’t quite kbow how lobg you’re gonna be there!
Sorry, took my sleeping pill and the screen looks as though it is misshaped and kinda like a jelly bean, and my thoughts aren’t where I had then earlier. So, I’ll try to finish this later.
May 18th, 2009 at 7:37 pmI have never met a person that was unwilling to help themselves. Who are these mythical folks and where can I find one. I have found people in real need with real troubles but I have not met individuals unwilling to better themselves.
May 18th, 2009 at 7:39 pmSince when is healthcare a right? Should housing be a right? A person needs a place to live. Should food be a right? A person needs to eat in order to live. Should clothing be a right? A person needs clothing to survive. The list can continue and eventually every need is covered by the governemnt. This leads to people living off the system instead of working their asses off, which of course means less tax revenue and less money to spend on everybody.
May 18th, 2009 at 7:40 pmrepublicans hate facts Says:
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JohnM Says:
Nope I never got anything from the government as far as assistance or healthcare.
How “LUCKY” of you. So you’re saying that someone that ISN’T SO LUCKY and gets sick should just DEAL with the DEBT and the MAYHEM and POTENTIAL DEATH that causes?
Yes, nobody can be turned away from a hospital in an emergency. If they recieve care they should pay off their debt.
May 18th, 2009 at 7:42 pmJohnM Says:
Nope I never got anything from the government as far as assistance or healthcare.
Really? Have you contracted polio? Smallpox? How about a mosquito born illness like malaria or yellow fever? Never taken a drug that passed FDA approval? How about air quality? Mercury in your food? Lead?
If one is alive? One has benefited from public health care legislation and regulation. Alas, about 21% of registered voters, and most trolls, are to effing stupid to realize this simple fact.
As for other “assistance”? That doesn’t deserve mention.
May 18th, 2009 at 7:43 pmJohnM, I know a lot of people like you. They think that its all about them, and because they think they did everything right, they owe nobody anything. You best hope disaster doesn’t hit you, because when it does, you will be crying like a baby, wishing people would just give you a chance. When and if that happens, I hope you remember what you said on this thread.
May 18th, 2009 at 7:44 pmrepublicans hate facts Says:
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JohnM Says:
Nope I never got anything from the government as far as assistance or healthcare.
So JohnM. Did you go to public schools? A public College? Did you drive on roads? Ride in Planes? Drink water from the tap?
Whether you like it or not those are all “ENTITLEMENTS” you received from the “GOVERNMENT”. You not believing that people should receive *ENTITLEMENTS* while RECEIVING THOSE YOURSELF is PURE HYPOCRISY.
Of course I did, but that is not the same thing as paying health care and welfare and you know this. You can’t win the argument at face value so you are simply trying to move the goal posts. I also pay more than my fair share of taxes so I am not receiving anything for free.
May 18th, 2009 at 7:44 pmOops! “… too effing stupid”.
May 18th, 2009 at 7:45 pm“They are like having Charles Manson times whatever factor — these people are so dangerous,” Ensign said.
If I recall correctly, Manson never killed anyone. He ordered other people to kill. The detainees are not like Manson. Manson was more like Osama bin Laden. Except that bin Laden isn’t in prison like Manson is.
That was a stupid analogy, Senator.
May 18th, 2009 at 7:45 pmJohnM Says:
I have great healthcare, but I actually worked hard to get where I am and gained marketable skills along the way.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Good for you. I also have great healthcare and marketable skills the difference between me and Ebenezer Scrooge worshippers is I want that for my neighbor no matter what his skill level is, no matter what mistakes he has made in his life. I want that for him and his CHILDREN. I dont resent those who havent been as fortunate as me to the point I want to see them DIE like 18,000 of my nieghbors a year do because of lack of access to healthcare
May 18th, 2009 at 7:45 pmSince when is healthcare a right? Should housing be a right? A person needs a place to live. Should food be a right? A person needs to eat in order to live. Should clothing be a right? A person needs clothing to survive.
May 18th, 2009 at 7:46 pm—-
Since when would someone not want to assist their neighbors in attaining these things if those neighbors were in need?
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angels81 Says:
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JohnM, I know a lot of people like you. They think that its all about them, and because they think they did everything right, they owe nobody anything. You best hope disaster doesn’t hit you, because when it does, you will be crying like a baby, wishing people would just give you a chance. When and if that happens, I hope you remember what you said on this thread.
I know a lot of people like you. You think that everybody should just have a fair chance and to level the playing field you think we should take from the people that earned what they have and give it to less fortunate. The problem with that logic is that it leads to less production and a lazy society that is always looking for theirs.
May 18th, 2009 at 7:47 pmJohnM,
May 18th, 2009 at 7:47 pmIs that you there Parodaryll?
I could swear it is You.
dbadass Says:
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Since when is healthcare a right? Should housing be a right? A person needs a place to live. Should food be a right? A person needs to eat in order to live. Should clothing be a right? A person needs clothing to survive.
—-
Since when would someone not want to assist their neighbors in attaining these things if those neighbors were in need?
The best way to help somebody is to teach them to fish not to simply give them a fish.
May 18th, 2009 at 7:48 pmJohnM Says:
Who says they dont work as hard because they dont make as much money or have as good a job? I am willing to pay moer to stop thousands of Americans a year from DYING from lack of access to healthcare. Those who think people should DIE because they arent as good or arent as fortunate as them should get a check up on their souls. They may have vacated
May 18th, 2009 at 7:48 pmwow, JohnM makes it sound like living on welfare is what everyone would do if they could
which begs the question:
why does he not choose that?
could it be that he doesn’t believe his own BS?
May 18th, 2009 at 7:49 pmrepublicans hate facts Says:
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JohnM Says:
Yes, nobody can be turned away from a hospital in an emergency. If they recieve care they should pay off their debt.
So you believe people should be saddled with this just because they aren’t LUCKY ENOUGH yet? Wow, what a f*KKKing moron.
By the way, if they can’t be turned away it’s a “RIGHT”. And much of the time our *TAXES* pick up those emergency room visits depending on the circumstances already. It’s expensive and would be cheaper just to provide healthcare. Or are you saying that we should just let people “DIE” because emergency rooms just makes people “DEPENDENT”? F*KKKING IDIOT!
You keep using the word luck like it is winning the lottery. It is working hard and gaining the skills that employers need and want. Luck has nothing to do with it. By the way no need to capitalize everything I promise to read every word you type.
May 18th, 2009 at 7:49 pmEasy, JohnM. You are practically daring a catastrophic illness to hit you. If I were God at this moment I would at least give you genital worts.
May 18th, 2009 at 7:50 pmJohnM:
May 18th, 2009 at 7:50 pmWhy is everything a competition with you people? How much crap does anyone need? Why not work to raise all ships rather than feeling like you need a bigger ship?
republicans hate facts Says:
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JohnM Says:
Of course I did, but that is not the same thing as paying health care and welfare and you know this.
Actually it’s EXACTLY the same.
JohnM Says:
You can’t win the argument at face value so you are simply trying to move the goal posts. I also pay more than my fair share of taxes so I am not receiving anything for free.
You are trying to MOVE THE GOAL POSTS, by saying we should only fund things that are RIGHTS, while taking advantage of those government ENTITLEMENTS. If you don’t believe in government entitlements, pay back what you TOOK from society.
I have paid back plus quite a bit more.
May 18th, 2009 at 7:50 pmSurprise, more hypocrisy from the GOP crowd. When will we as a nation begin to start dealing with pressing issues like health care or the environment, and start remembering old promises we made long ago? For example, global poverty, which we pledged in 2000 to help eradicate by supporting the United Nations Millennium Development Goals. The Borgen Project (www.borgenproject.org) has some interesting insight into addressing the issues of global poverty, something we can remedy easily and sustainably.
Some interesting figures to ponder:
May 18th, 2009 at 7:50 pm$30 billion USD: The annual shortfall to end global poverty.
$550 billion USD: The annual US defense budget.
JohnM, What the hell did you earn? I would bet you are white, your parents were middle class, your parents helped pay for your education, gave you a safe place to live, and you think you earned all this. Class in this country has had nothing to do with what someone has earned you twit.
May 18th, 2009 at 7:50 pmMedical Bills Leading Cause of Bankruptcy, Harvard Study Finds
Read more: “Medical Bills Leading Cause of Bankruptcy, Harvard Study Finds” – http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2005/bankruptcy_study.html#ixzz0FuB9ntUv&A
Imagine that? Those bloody ‘liberals’ at Harvard making such a finding. How dare they. Next thing the Hoover Institute will be making such ‘liberal’ statements. Yeah, right (pun intended)
May 18th, 2009 at 7:51 pmOf course, they utterly fail to even consider the benefit of eliminating the health insurance industry and using the wealth represented by premiums to fund something besides a bunch of parasitic gamblers.
The poor Reichwhiners can’t even see how they are being used. Here’s a newsflash: Under the current system, when someone else gets sick, your premiums go up! All too often that increase is born by individuals or small businesses who don’t have the resources to negotiate with the insurance company.
May 18th, 2009 at 7:51 pmdbadass Says:
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JohnM:
Why is everything a competition with you people? How much crap does anyone need? Why not work to raise all ships rather than feeling like you need a bigger ship?
Everytime I buy a bigger ship people get paid to build that ship. I am happy to help people out that way.
May 18th, 2009 at 7:52 pmrepublicans hate facts Says:
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JohnM Says:
You keep using the word luck like it is winning the lottery. It is working hard and gaining the skills that employers need and want. Luck has nothing to do with it. By the way no need to capitalize everything I promise to read every word you type.
I would say what family and what upbringing you were raised in and what opportunities came your way because of it are exactly that. George Bush would have been suited to digging ditches without his “LUCK”. And you yourself might have been so unlucky as to have gotten sick when you were “IMPROVING” yourself and destroyed your entire future. It’s *EXACTLY* like the lottery – *ALL* insurance and *RISKS* are… Look up “ACTUARY”…
My parents were lower middle class and had very little but took nothing they could not afford. I had no extra advantages.
May 18th, 2009 at 7:52 pmLuck has nothing to do with it
May 18th, 2009 at 7:53 pm—-
That is what Paris Hilton and W have tried to convince us as well…
To JohnM:
You seem to have been lucky when it comes to success. So have I (although we can’t prove this on the internet). Giving to charity is a cop-out right-wing term. Sorry, won’t work here. I wrote this piece about socialism but it pertains to the reform in the insurance and medial areas. I think it is wrong to assume that people don’t work hard and then to deny them opportunity for this assumption. I think you know this and just want to be an a$$ for attention.
Socialists mainly share the belief that capitalism unfairly concentrates power and wealth among a small segment of society that controls capital, creates an unequal society, and does not provide equal opportunities for everyone in society. Therefore socialists advocate the creation of a society in which wealth and power are distributed more evenly based on the amount of work expended in production. (wiki.com)
Key items here are:
- Capitalism unfairly concentrates power and wealth among a small segment of society that controls capital.
- [Capitalism] creates an unequal society.
- [Capitalism] does not provide equal opportunities for everyone in society.
– [Socialists want] wealth and power [to be] distributed more evenly based on the amount of work expended in production.
Commentary:
Can one see WHY a corporate PIG would hate socialism? Are these CEOs really worth millions? Capitalism unchecked is like financial genocide to the poor and middle class in the USA. Every time capitalism over-reaches, the populace gets mad and pushes more to socialism for protection. If anyone is to blame for socialism, in my opinion, it is those with the power and money with too much unchecked greed.
Solution:
May 18th, 2009 at 7:53 pmThere has to be a healthy balance between capitalism, government and the populace for all to thrive and grow. There needs to be social “safety nets” for those to fall into when capitalism or government fail. The social “safety net” is tough to measure and keep from abuse or prolonged use.
JohnM Says:
What is wrong with fighting to pay your own way?
I suppose you’ve never had a run in with the private insurers; you (or your employer) pay your premiums and you go your merry way. Congratulations, you are the only niche carved out of free-market health care.
People fight just to pay their premiums and they fight to get something in return when they need help. It’s an avenue of rejections and appeals just to get covered for risk that you paid to insure.
Whenever I read Paul Bunyan screeds including the vague words “hard work” and “marketable skills”, I’m not reading necessarily of a responsible citizen, I’m reading about an ignoramus. Hard work makes the world turn; you are nothing special, and people don’t regularly brag. Most people work hard (when their job isn’t killed by a republican administration) and are looking for a fair playing field.
Respond by telling me that people should “save” for their health care when, even w/ insurance, they accumulate six figures of debt for major needed care when the national average income is about $45,000 a year.
May 18th, 2009 at 7:53 pmJohnM Says:
Nope I never got anything from the government as far as assistance or healthcare.
So, why not remove religious organizations’ tax exempt status? That would do a great deal towards easing the federal deficit, and allowing guys like you to take home more of your own hard-earned money.
May 18th, 2009 at 7:54 pmJohnM Says:
Since when is healthcare a right? Should housing be a right? A person needs a place to live. Should food be a right? A person needs to eat in order to live. Should clothing be a right? A person needs clothing to survive. The list can continue and eventually every need is covered by the governemnt. This leads to people living off the system instead of working their asses off, which of course means less tax revenue and less money to spend on everybody.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Perhaps. Those are societal, demcratic, decisions. NOT YOURS ALONE. If you are trying to say that nationalized healthcare is unconstitutional like others who have made that argument it is just plain stupid. The preamble says the federal government should promote the general wellfare and exactly WHAT that means is a democratic decisions. CLEARLY a majority of people WANT universal healthcare and are willing to pay more taxes to get it. Your selfishness notwithstanding if you dont WANT to do your fair share to have a society. Get out of ours and go live off of nuts and berries. We are trying to have a civilization here and the constant whining and snivelling of those who dont want to help their neighbors is getting annoying
May 18th, 2009 at 7:54 pmWhy do you need a bigger ship are you trying to compensate for something? What about the squandered resources wasted for a ship larger than the one you need?
May 18th, 2009 at 7:54 pmangels81 Says:
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JohnM, What the hell did you earn? I would bet you are white, your parents were middle class, your parents helped pay for your education, gave you a safe place to live, and you think you earned all this. Class in this country has had nothing to do with what someone has earned you twit.
I made $125k last year. My parents did not pay a dime of my college, I worked throughout school to pay for what I could, the rest was on student loans that I paid back. Yes, I am white but I was not given anything extra from my race that a minority could not have gotten themselves.
May 18th, 2009 at 7:55 pmMy parents were lower middle class and had very little but took nothing they could not afford. I had no extra advantages.
You had two parents. Advantage one.
Did they both survive until you reached adulthood? Advantage two.
May 18th, 2009 at 7:56 pmdbadass Says:
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Why do you need a bigger ship are you trying to compensate for something? What about the squandered resources wasted for a ship larger than the one you need?
I work hard, if I want a larger ship I am entitled to it. That is the great thing about the United States.
May 18th, 2009 at 7:56 pmJohnM Says:
Nope I never got anything from the government as far as assistance or healthcare.
__________________________
You must not be doing to well. The people who really have the $ get Government assistance everyday of their lives.
May 18th, 2009 at 7:57 pmJohnM, I can tell that class is what makes your world go around. In your world, why should the haves do anything to help the have nots, their just scum who if they can’t help themseleves f**k them. I would sugjest you remember the French Revolution, which I’m sure you learnend with your upper middle class education.
May 18th, 2009 at 7:57 pmWere they both healthy, and fully able to fulfill their duties and obligations as parents? Advantage three.
Need I go on, child of priviledge?
May 18th, 2009 at 7:57 pmbarfly Says:
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My parents were lower middle class and had very little but took nothing they could not afford. I had no extra advantages.
You had two parents. Advantage one.
Did they both survive until you reached adulthood? Advantage two.
How is it an advantage to have two parents? Last time I checked that is how it works.
May 18th, 2009 at 7:58 pmThe whole helping people creates dependency crapola is an excuse for disgusting selfishness. Yeah we really hurt hungry children when we feed them instead of letting them DIE. Making them dependent instead of DEAD really teaches them the wrong lesson. Why dont all you Ebenezer Scrooge worshipping libertarians go live on a tropical island and let us televise you re-enacting the Lord of the Flies
May 18th, 2009 at 7:58 pmbarfly Says:
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Were they both healthy, and fully able to fulfill their duties and obligations as parents? Advantage three.
Need I go on, child of priviledge?
My mother had a stroke when I was 12 and did not work after that. They paid for the medical bills out of their own pocket and my dad worked his ass off to make that happen. By the way she is still alive and doing quite well.
May 18th, 2009 at 7:58 pmWhy are you entitled to something you need not and wastes resources needed by future generations? Are you selfish and spoiled?
May 18th, 2009 at 7:58 pmSo John claims to make $125K a year and gets no government assistance. Now you know he’s a liar.
May 18th, 2009 at 7:59 pmrepublicans hate facts Says:
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JohnM Says:
I work hard, if I want a larger ship I am entitled to it. That is the great thing about the United States.
Who SAYS you’re entitled to it and someone else isn’t? Just because you weren’t born into an inner city or crappy school or sick parents or have your own health issues you are “entitled” to this but others less fortunate “AREN’T”? Keep JUSTIFYING your attitude.
You aren’t “ENTITLED” to anything. You just got LUCKY enough to be able to obtain it. ENTITLEMENT is a RIGHT, you have NO SUCH THING.
I am entitled to it because I can pay the amount that it costs with the money I earned.
May 18th, 2009 at 7:59 pmAccording to the Kaiser Family Foundation, the average annual premium for family health insurance coverage is $12,106. For many years, the growth in health insurance premiums has exceeded overall inflation and the growth in take-home pay; the increasing cost of benefits is often blamed for the lack of growth in real wages. This dramatic growth in the cost of private insurance has led to decreases in the number of people who buy coverage.
Anyone care to guess what the average family income is in the US and what percentage $12,106 represents?
May 18th, 2009 at 7:59 pmJohnM, so you got that nice student loan that the government made possible for you? You think you did that all on your own right? And of course not being a person of color and being middle class you don’t have a clue do ya?
May 18th, 2009 at 8:00 pm——————————————————————————–
dbadass Says:
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Why are you entitled to something you need not and wastes resources needed by future generations? Are you selfish and spoiled?
Do you need your computer to post on this site? Those are resources that could be saved for future generations. Are you selfish and spoiled?
May 18th, 2009 at 8:01 pmHere’s a link for those wondering what the median family income is (note it is from a .gov source).
http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/income/medincsizeandstate.html
May 18th, 2009 at 8:02 pmrepublicans hate facts Says:
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JohnM Says:
I am entitled to it because I can pay the amount that it costs with the money I earned.
NO you AREN’T. ENTITLED is a RIGHT. If the government decided tomorrow to tax 95% of your income and you couldn’t afford that boat you would no longer be “ENTITLED” to it. You are FORTUNATE that you can OBTAIN it. But you are not “ENTITLED” to it.
I am entitled to whatever I can pay for with the money I earned.
May 18th, 2009 at 8:02 pmThanks.
May 18th, 2009 at 8:03 pmJohnM, the only thing you are entitled to, is to die, just like everyone else. Thats the only entitlment you get in this life.
May 18th, 2009 at 8:04 pmFunny you should mention that JohnM. This computer cost 300 6 years ago. I bought it from a high school kid. It is prehistoric but suits my needs as I need it to support my job. I use an outdated phone and refuse to update so as to not support the whole conflict mineral deal. I am a freegan and barter and swap for most of the few things I need. My choices place others before me and I would have it no other way
May 18th, 2009 at 8:04 pmHow is it an advantage to have two parents? Last time I checked that is how it works.
Your party constantly talks of the need of two-parent families, albeit with straight parents. One advantage is getting the life experiences and perspectives of two adults; instead of one, some-times dysfunctional parent.
Parents can get sick, and die, and leave you with no one to turn to in emergencies, something I guess you’ll never know, since your parents are apparently immortal.
May 18th, 2009 at 8:05 pmWhat else can we expect? Remember, these freaks think “empathy” is a curse-word.
May 18th, 2009 at 8:05 pmI am entitled to whatever I can pay for with the money I earned.
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May 18th, 2009 at 8:05 pmAh this isn’t Thailand….
If JohnM is entitled to anything he can buy, I’m entitled to anything I can take away from him. If I’m stronger and more ruthless then him, then I guess I’m entitled.
May 18th, 2009 at 8:08 pmI dont understand people who think those who arent as well off as they are somehow DESERVE to suffer. In Johns case he is saying they should suffer and DIE because they havent had his good luck. Perhaps they got an illness or an accident at the wrong time of their life and now they just cant make as much money so they should suffer and DIE and John seems to feel good about that as long as it doesnt cost HIM a nickle
May 18th, 2009 at 8:10 pmMy mother had a stroke when I was 12 and did not work after that. They paid for the medical bills out of their own pocket and my dad worked his ass off to make that happen. By the way she is still alive and doing quite well.
You want to have me cry for you?
I was adoted by two middle-aged, depression-era farm folk. My 4-grade educated dad went blind when I was 8, my mother, died when I was 17, leaving me to care for him while attending school. My dad passed 4 years later, and I was alone at 21, so cry my a river, and we’ll have a big pity-party for the poor, hard-taxed little child of priviledge.
May 18th, 2009 at 8:10 pmHow do you measure who works harder than who, JohnM, is it by way of reported salary? Is the CEO making $18M off employees putting in elbow grease at $20K necessarily a harder worker?
May 18th, 2009 at 8:11 pmI can see JohnM is entitled to one thing. He is entitled to slink away from this site, with his head up his ass.
May 18th, 2009 at 8:16 pmWow We’ve got Rush Limbaugh in our mist! He’s the only person I can think of who has proven he is entitled to buy anything he wants.
May 18th, 2009 at 8:18 pmJohnM has entitlement syndrome like those people who come to work in a rage after being fired and go postal. JohnM don’t get cocky – all of your money can be taken away in an instant.
May 18th, 2009 at 8:19 pmJohnM,
Sitting here reading your comments, I can only conclude that you are selfish and you don’t give a rat’s ass about anyone but you and yours.
You go through life deluding yourself into believing that you’re a “self-made man” and that the government had nothing to do with it. Nothing could be further from the truth.
If I may make a suggestion (and you are free to tell me what to do with it), try looking up the word “humane”. Then tell me how that fits in with your conservative philosophy.
May 18th, 2009 at 8:27 pmJohnM bigheaded say, but I think something very bad to do execution without trial.
May 18th, 2009 at 8:27 pmThat’s funny. Knucklehead trying to deftly push one conservative social Darwinistic agenda screws up and exposes another.
The U.S. is not a meritocracy. That ridiculous argument, clearly contrary to social scientific and economic data, is tired and, bluntly, the argument of the huckster or ignoramous. The United States, at present, is an economic oligarchy.
May 18th, 2009 at 8:28 pmIf JohnM lost his job due to off-shoring and had a bad accident on the way home from his old job, he’d be crying for single-payer after he went bankrupt and lost his house due to the medical bills. Typical narcissistic “entitlement” a-hole.
May 18th, 2009 at 8:30 pmOf course, all those uninsured pregnant women should not have an abortion, no matter the situation, but screw having them or their babies having health care. Typical neocon, once they are born, piss on them. Let them fend for themselves. As an atheist it still makes me cringe how the supposed followers of Jesus think and act. These people are despicable.
May 18th, 2009 at 8:31 pmWhere does JohnM get the idea that our society is populated by lazy, shiftless people? Does he not realize that his hero, Ebeneezer Scrooge, was created by Dickens as a moral lesson about the evils of the very societal model that JohnM worships?
Nobody is a self-made man. That is a myth.
May 18th, 2009 at 8:34 pmLiberalVoter, thanks for the link. When you consider that those numbers were from 2006, when the economy wasn’t yet focked, and that most of us actually make less now, it gets even more pathetic.
And speaking of pathetic, JohnM, can I ask if you’re a Christian? ‘Cause you’re certainly not sounding like one.
May 18th, 2009 at 8:36 pmSocialism? Yikes…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QDv4sYwjO0
May 18th, 2009 at 8:37 pmRepugs are so convoluted that they look foolish whenever they try to defend their ridiculous positions.
May 18th, 2009 at 8:42 pmMaybe Ensign’s medical plan will cover his foot-in-mouth disease.
I still can’t get past the irony of someone, who has no problem with the health insurance industry, proclaiming their disgust with taxes.
As things exist today, health insurance is simply a tax paid to private corporations. Personally, I would rather have the option of voting against those who misuse my contribution. Alas, there is no such recourse with the insurance industry. As Lush Rimjob is so fond of saying, “all we can do is bend over and grab our ankles”.
May 18th, 2009 at 8:49 pmEven if you only care about yourself, you should still be in favor of single-payer because it cuts administrative costs in half. Consumer Reports (not Marxist) said it would save us over $250 billion every year. Detroit carmakers have to pay $1500 more per car than Windsor, Canada carmakers.
It is possible to cover everyone and even have no co-pay and no deductible. It is possible to include dental, optometric, and behavioral—which some American plans do not cover. I lived in London for twelve years and know of what I say. Aren’t half of US bankruptcies due to medical bills?
May 18th, 2009 at 9:04 pmJohnM Says:
The best way to help somebody is to teach them to fish not to simply give them a fish.
Yeah, the guy that did that loaves-and-fishes thing – what a jerk he was!
JohnM sounds like your typical Libertarian A-is-A-hole.
May 18th, 2009 at 9:06 pmpete, Right. In a democracy, people can vote to change something—but I will never have a seat on the board of a health insurance company. Did you all see the 60 Minutes where a worker for private insurance said she got a bonus if she denied more than a certain amount of coverage? Once they get a hold of your DNA, everyone will have a “pre-existing condition”.
May 18th, 2009 at 9:08 pmThe best way to help somebody is to teach them to fish not to simply give them a fish.
—
May 18th, 2009 at 9:10 pmThe ever popular fastest way to a depeleted fishery….
Little Freep Goofballs,
May 18th, 2009 at 9:10 pmThat hippie community organizer didn’t even charge for raising the dead!
Speaking of the Jewish guy from 2000 years ago:
Matthew 19:17-23
17″Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, obey the commandments.”
18″Which ones?” the man inquired.
Jesus replied, ” ‘Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony,”
19″honor your father and mother,’ and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.’”
20″All these I have kept,” the young man said. “What do I still lack?”
21Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”
22When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth.
23Then Jesus said to his disciples, “I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.”
24″Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.”
May 18th, 2009 at 9:12 pmBut for an accident of birth any one of us could have been born to a crack head dropout in a bad neighborhood with crappy schools and a mother who can’t read. We could be exposed to lead paint and mercury poisoning in old run down buildings .
But Republicans can’t be grateful for all they have been blessed with. The act like babies chose to be born to addicted mothers just so they never have to work.
May 18th, 2009 at 9:26 pmLiberalVoter @#137–Clearly JohnM wasn’t paying attention to that part of the NT, as he had no use for it.
Anyway, he’s just acting ridiculous and smug–it’s a weak performance, but I guess that’s the best one can expect from a poseur like him.
The text I’ll quote is from George Carlin:
I guess that’s not enough for neocon wannabees like JohnM–he’s a zero-sum sort of a guy–in order to succeed, someone else must fail.
May 18th, 2009 at 9:29 pmI bet JohnM considers himself a good Christian too.
Why don’t you spend a day walking in the shoes of a poor person? Walk to the nearest grocery store and carry your groceries home. That’s not too bad because you can only buy the smallest they have of everything like detergent because food stamps don’t pay for that. Then you get to take your welfare check to the currency exchange because you don’t have enough money to open a bank account and they take a percentage out of your check. To pay your bills either you walk to the post office or you spend extra money to buy stamps at the currency exchange because the post office is too far.
Yeah it’s great fun being poor.
May 18th, 2009 at 9:29 pmlaur Says:
Where does JohnM get the idea that our society is populated by lazy, shiftless people?
______________
He lives in a Red state….
May 18th, 2009 at 9:44 pmI can wait until Karma bites JohnM on the ass.
May 18th, 2009 at 9:45 pmDoodlebug Shayne Says:
But for an accident of birth any one of us could have been born to a crack head dropout in a bad neighborhood with crappy schools and a mother who can’t read. We could be exposed to lead paint and mercury poisoning in old run down buildings .
But Republicans can’t be grateful for all they have been blessed with. The act like babies chose to be born to addicted mothers just so they never have to work.
May 18th, 2009 at 9:26 pm
Hi, Shayne,
There are some Republicans (not all of them, just some of the ones whose latest DNA tests did not come back 100% human, if you catch my drift) who actually believe in “Compassionate Conservatism”, the name of an actual philosophy that is neither “compassionate” nor “conservative”. These people believe that if you are poor, it is because you made the wrong choices in life. These people also have a tendency to equate financial worth with social worth – the more money you have, the better a person you must be. They have a tendency to believe strongly in the “tough love” strand of compassion. ‘I won’t help you out when you made that dumb mistake because if I do, you’ll think someone will be there to help you all the time. You have to learn to get out of your own messes.’ How this is considered “compassionate” is beyond me.
The “financial worth = social worth” delusion is derived from their misunderstanding of the idea that Capitalism has no morals. In and of itself, it is neither good nor evil. It does not care how you make your money, you just have to make your money. But what they fail to give credence to is the fact that the actual application of Capitalism is, first, conducted within a framework of regulations that very much do have moral underpinnings. (For example, income from crime is considered “ill-gotten gain”, so there are things you cannot do to earn your money “legally”); and, second, that the people who practice Capitalism are, themselves, very much operating within moral principles (not all of them good ones). To claim that if you have (not necessarily make, just have) a lot of money, you must be doing something “good” is mistaken, to say the least, highly delusional, to say the most.
May 18th, 2009 at 9:46 pmI thought these guys were for privatizing prisons, make some money!!
May 18th, 2009 at 9:52 pmThis year, Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger’s state corrections agency is proposing a five-year, $67 million increase to one company, GEO Group Inc. The proposal would bump up the daily rate the state pays per inmate by 50 percent, which the company says it needs to increase the minimum pay of its officers from $10 an hour to $14.70.
See, make money!!
May 18th, 2009 at 9:53 pmGood point laur. And Carlin has always had a way with words. Good post as well.
May 18th, 2009 at 9:58 pmJane E. Schneider Says:
And speaking of pathetic, JohnM, can I ask if you’re a Christian? ‘Cause you’re certainly not sounding like one.
Hi Jane! Of course its a “Christian”… it claims to have donated $12k to charity, claims a salary of $125k/year. That’s called tithing and the “charity” is church.
Isn’t the basic tenet of Christianity “every man for himself”? Or is it “I got mine, go get your own”?
PEACE
May 18th, 2009 at 10:02 pmspencers mom says: Isn’t the basic tenet of Christianity “every man for himself”? Or is it “I got mine, go get your own”?
Or is it, “I got mine, now I want yours as well”
May 18th, 2009 at 10:04 pmWayne Ant Schneider,
May 18th, 2009 at 10:09 pmHave you noticed that a heck of a lot more people “make bad choices in life” under Republicans than under Democrats?[snark]
The problem with the detainees is that they are really like Lex Luther, Dr. Octopus, the Penguin…
May 18th, 2009 at 10:15 pmwiley Says:
The problem with the detainees is that they are really like Lex Luther, Dr. Octopus, the Penguin…
or Magneto
May 18th, 2009 at 10:21 pmWhy is he so proud of Gitmo? It houses some of the “most dangerous” terrorists in the world; why does he support treating them like (relatively speaking) royalty?
May 18th, 2009 at 10:32 pmWell Wayne, at least we got rid of that disgusting specimen of human feces. Where did these cancervatives learn to believe that being selfish is a good thing?
May 18th, 2009 at 10:37 pmWait. Many federal detention centers are run by private companies. Why is it that taxpayer dollars is okay when its used for prisoner healthcare but not for public health insurance?
May 18th, 2009 at 10:39 pmI admit I’m selfish. I selfishly want to live in a country where no child, regardless of his parents’ choices in life, has to go without food or health care. I don’t want to parse who’s worthy and who is not, I want the freedom to eat my dinner knowing that no one in my great country is going without. I don’t want to lose the intellect of the next Einstein because that child is born in circumstances that will not allow him to realize his potential. I want to be able to go to church knowing that I live my own beliefs by sacrificing for others, whether through taxes or tithing. I selfishly wish that my country will live up to its ideals and allow every human to live in the dignity God intended. I understand the selfishness of these “every man for himself” conservatives, I just wonder why the things they wish to accrue are so small and worthless.
May 18th, 2009 at 10:56 pmXisithrus Says:
Wait. Many federal detention centers are run by private companies. Why is it that taxpayer dollars is okay when its used for prisoner healthcare but not for public health insurance?
May 18th, 2009 at 10:39 pm
Well, the Rightwingers screaming against socialized healthcare can’t exactly denounce a program that is obviously working so well for the prisoners, can they?
May 18th, 2009 at 11:47 pmMr. Evil Says:
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pax Says: #14
Notice that Jesse Ventura is making the rounds again? I’d love to hear some republican call him out. It’ll never happen because of the chickenshits that they are. Jesse Ventura 2012
May 19th, 2009 at 1:34 am——-
That`s chicken hawks Mr,don`t be so kind to the Reich by calling them chicken shits.
.
Oh…
So Sen. John Ensign (R-NV) is for health care FOR detainees…
… Just not for Americans?
And he’s on the American’s side in all of this, just where?
.
May 19th, 2009 at 3:10 am.
Q U E S T I O N:
Why do posters from Turkey consistently link to Turkish porn?
Maybe sistutkusu @#103 and Selsibot @#119 can explain?
.
May 19th, 2009 at 3:26 amJohnM Says:
The best way to help somebody is to teach them to fish not to simply give them a fish.
aawwwww.. ain’t that sweet? Quoting from his bible, as if it were an absolute and undeniable truth. Taliban much?
However, oh religious one of the christain persuasion, you DO realize that that little nugget suggests that education should then be completely free (or, societie’s burdon, not the individual’s).
You see, if you offer that nugget of wisdom, and then say, “I’ll teach you to fish, poor and starving person, but first you have to pay me what I want you to pay me,” you are NOT following that nugget — for that POOR person, who is starving, gets no food AND gets no education.
You are not offering to “teach them to fish” — you expect them to pay, on their own, for it.
May 19th, 2009 at 8:46 amOh, and that damn Jesus guy was SO not following that teaching advice — him and his loaves of bread and barrels of wine — what a welfare liberal scum he was. He SHOULD have told all those hungry people to get a job, that they were weak and lazy for not having brought any food, or bought enough wine for their party.
May 19th, 2009 at 8:59 amJohn Kenneth Galbraith had conservatives pegged from the get-go.
May 19th, 2009 at 9:19 amJohnM Says:
The best way to help somebody is to teach them to fish not to simply give them a fish.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Yeah but for you Ebenezer Scrooge worshippers its all about if you give a man a fish you feed him for a day but if you set him on fire you keep him warm for the rest of his life.
It is also you Scrooge worshippers that are against jobs programs so stuff your teach a man to fish rhetoric that you dont support anyway. Face it. You are selfish and dont care about anyone except yourself. Your soul departed long ago from lack of nourishment. There is an old story that a wise Native American told to his nephew. He told him that two dogs live inside of each person. One grows from hate, resentment, selfishness, greed and anger the other grows from love, caring for others, empathy, generosity and kindness and they are in competition for your soul. The nephew asked which would win and the answer was THE ONE YOU FEED. We all know which one long ago starved to death inside YOU.
May 19th, 2009 at 9:30 amOutstandingInAPlagueOfLocusts
Wow beautiful. The Bahai say that the day will come when no man will be able to sleep as long as one child goes hungry. We can all hope
May 19th, 2009 at 9:32 amBrilliant! Welcome to your new health plan, Sen. Ensign. Great benefits! Lots of sun! and a place to wear your lei!
May 19th, 2009 at 1:20 pmSuch a peaceful and civil blog is this. And I can feel God’s love pouring from everywhere. Maybe those Jehovah Witlesses are right, Christianity truly is Babylon the Great. Or is It a filthy whore that sleeps with “The Kingdom of Satan”. What was that story about Jesus in the wilderness? Didn’t Satan offer Jesus all the kingdoms of the world for a single act of worship?. He declined but his followers have a different game plan. Let’s make God’s kingdumb here now. We will call it a New World Order (Bush 41). We claim to have His support and use Him as a cover for our true motives. Such pathetic puke are You who don’t Believe. And yet you prosper and increase in number. But the brave Republicans decline in number and like king Nebuchadnezzar of old are losing their minds. Is there grass on the menu? We truly need a “teaching tour” – teaching the fools to ignore the fools who teach them.
May 20th, 2009 at 2:37 amFreemind
what a stupid, babbling, meandering and inane post that was. What really struck me was how you managed both condescension and abject stupidity at the same time. Good job there.
May 20th, 2009 at 3:25 amFreemind lost its mind.
May 20th, 2009 at 3:35 am