Matthew Yglesias discusses how the right-wing strategy on torture is backfiring.
Matthew Yglesias discusses how the right-wing strategy on torture is backfiring.
Today, ThinkProgress’s Matthew Yglesias (who is celebrating his birthday today) wrote a column for the Daily Beast arguing that the right wing’s sideshow on House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) only furthers the case for a full investigation into torture. When host Norah O’Donnell asked him about Newt Gingrich’s call for Pelosi’s resignation, Yglesias reminded her who was ultimately responsible for Bush’s torture policy:
YGLESIAS: You know, Newt Gingrich knows a lot about saying stupid things and being forced out of the job as Speaker. … But one way or the other — I mean, I wasn’t in the room, you weren’t in the room, Newt Gingrich wasn’t in the room. None of us know exactly what happened there. But whatever it is Nancy Pelosi knew about, George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, John Yoo, Jay Bybee, they knew more. And ultimately, when we have a thorough investigation of what happened, the bulk of the blame has to lie with the architects of the policy, not with a member of the opposition party.
Watch it:
O’Donnell insisted, “There’s not going to be an investigation,” in part because — according to O’Donnell — Pelosi doesn’t want one. In fact, Pelosi repeated her calls for a full accounting for Bush’s torture policies as recently as Thursday: “Until a Truth Commission comes into being, I encourage the appropriate committees of the House to conduct vigorous oversight of these issues.”
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Well done, Yglesias.
Shut your pie hole, Noron.
May 18th, 2009 at 5:43 pmYes, Tea Baggers formerly known as the GOP. Keep talking and talking and defending the use of “torture” and the truth will come out much quicker than you believe. Keep it up, I love it myself. Investigate Pelosi. Tell us why most GOPs in the house wants Pelosi to step down. Tell us why most GOPs want Pelosi out of the way. Yes tell us, please!
Investigation into if the CIA did or not tell Pelosi, yes we want to know. Now!
May 18th, 2009 at 5:44 pmBut whatever it is Nancy Pelosi knew about, George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, John Yoo, Jay Bybee, they knew more.
But whatever it is Nancy Pelosi knew about, George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, John Yoo, Jay Bybee, they knew more.
But whatever it is Nancy Pelosi knew about, George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, John Yoo, Jay Bybee, they knew more.
George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, John Yoo, Jay Bybeehave soiled the good name of The United States of America. They have put OUR country into the same dispicable class of Cambodia under Pol Pot, Iraq under Saddam Hussein and the Soviet Union under Stalin.
Pol Pot, Saddam Hussein, Stalin, and now Bush and Cheney.
Disgusting…….
May 18th, 2009 at 5:46 pmTyrant Cheney tortured; tyrant Rumsfeld tortured; tyrant Bush tortured. Prosecute Cheney, Rumsfeld and Bush for torture and war crimes.
May 18th, 2009 at 5:47 pmHere’s another name for “Truth Commission”: Independent Counsel Investigation.
Torture is a violation of law, with penalties set down for those who violate those laws.
We don’t need little 9/11 commissioners running around taking down opinions.
We do need a legal authority with the power of subpoena and jailing those found to be in contempt to compel testimony in order to reveal who is responsible and enforce the rule of law.
Short of that, I get to decide what taxes I’ll pay next year, because Federal statutes no longer apply in any area of legal practice.
May 18th, 2009 at 5:48 pmNorah apparently doesn’t understand her own network’s reporting for which she has been a daily part. Of course, there’s going to be an investigation; not only because Pelosi is calling for it, but because this ‘he said/she said’ cannot continue indefinitely. Answers will have to ultimately be provided to the American people whether congress wants/likes it or not.
I personally want to see much more than a truth commission because if it occurs through congress, we all know the outcome of that; no significant information would be provided. I hope we have a special prosecutor in order to get at the very heart of this matter and send the entire Bush criminal gang to federal prison here or to the Hague so that there will NEVER BE ANOTHER DEBATE about who knew what, when and how much they knew. We already know who manipulated the language for the memos and we know who issued the orders/ authorizations for the torture.
May 18th, 2009 at 5:50 pmI see no independent prosecutor named. Yglesias opinion is one of many. Whether it’s accurate prophecy remains to be seen.
No Repugnican’ts and only a handful of Damnocrats push for an independent investigation, one with legal teeth.
Time will show the true colors of our elected leaders.
May 18th, 2009 at 5:51 pmWhy do people persist in this delusion that there is one chance in fuuking hell that there will EVER be anything remotely LIKE a “Truth Commission.”
We have the media we have because ‘we cannot handle the truth.’ So we have a media which sugar coats uncomfortable facts, elides others, and lies out-right about the rest.
Mainly, I think, to spare us the embarrassment of having the truth known, and still doing NOTHING about it…
May 18th, 2009 at 5:54 pmSo the POTUS and members of his adminstration decide to use torture, they tell some people that they’re gonna do it, classify the meeting, tell you that you better not tell anyone for if you do we will brand you as un-patriotic and along with the so-called media accuse you of treason, accuse you of treason anyway when you even “think” about disagreeing with them on anything, and now when it comes out that the POTUS was lying when he told the public that the U.S. does not torture, you (the media, republicans, idiots) blame the person who was told, and not the person responsible.
WOW!!!
What happened to the party of responsibility? What happened to responsibilty period?
This is what passes as grown-up behavior?
Help us.
RIP
May 18th, 2009 at 6:01 pmSGT Stephen R. Sherman
C CO 1-5 IN (STRYKER)
KIA 3 Feb 2005
Mosul, Iraq
“Truth Commission” sounds like a game show derived from Orwell’s 1984. No new panels need to be formed, just follow the law as written. Investigate alleged crimes and prosecute where applicable. The hold-up is not the law, it’s purely politics.
May 18th, 2009 at 6:03 pmI agree that whatever Nancy knew, the Bush administration knew more. The Bush administration is responsible for the policy.
What Republicans get from the revelation that Pelosi knew about waterboarding back in 2003, is the ability to paint her as a hypocrite and an opportunistic partisan.
The idea that Pelosi sat in a briefing were she was either told that waterboarding was being used, or could legally be used, and said nothing; makes her subsequent indignation about the technique seem hollow and opportunistic.
If it was so obviously objectionable at the time, why didn’t she speak up?
It allows the former administration to make the case that Democrats were informed and complicit about waterboarding at the time.
If Democrats and progressives pressure Pelosi to step aside, they retain the moral highground and deny the Republicans the ammo to assert that most Democrats were on board with the objectionable techniques.
May 18th, 2009 at 6:06 pm
May 18th, 2009 at 6:15 pmHos does bowing to the demands of the ravenous and depraved brood, known as the GOP do anything other than elevate them? They have no ammo, no position, no stance to defend. They are just throwing shit and pointing fingers in order to dilute this issue into a standard left/right issue. You know that backup, so stop playing stupid.
If it was so obviously objectionable at the time, why didn’t she speak up?
One reason is that if she had, she’d have been liable being arrested by the Busheviks under terms of the PATRIOT ACT, probably, and rendered to Egypt for interrogation…
May 18th, 2009 at 6:15 pmPropaganda, much?
—-
May 18th, 2009 at 6:15 pmWhat is Jessica Lynch up to these days….
No Pelosi should not and will not step aside. I believe they mislead her and others, simple fact.
Cheney Co. (Bush and all) need to be held accountable.
The GOP are experts in taking down and blaming and putting focus on others. I’m tire of this. This time they need to go down.
May 18th, 2009 at 6:15 pmAs usual, she misses the point. He’s not saying there’s going to be a commission. He’s saying that by making this huge deal out of Pelosi, they’re calling attention to their own much greater sins.
Let’s say I break into your house and steal your television and get away with it, but while I’m there, I notice that you had a joint in your ashtray. Does it make sense for me to go to the police and try to get them to cite you for smoking pot?
It would backfire, no? Why can’t O’Donnell see this?
May 18th, 2009 at 6:17 pmBefore the invasion of Iraq, Bush was obscenely popular. The devious thought crossed my mind that Bush might kill Saddam, of whom I wasn’t fond, but that the whole thing might backfire, taking the Republicans’ popularity along with them.
That’s how I see the Pelosi thing. Now that the Republicans have been neutered, the top democrats like Feinstein, Schumer, Hoyer et all have become the new enemy. And they apparently DID know about many of the crimes of BushCo. Maybe we can sweep out a big chunk of the corrupt democratic leadership while prosecuting the Republicans and making sure none of this happens again.
May 18th, 2009 at 6:23 pmThis is akin to a gang committing murder, and the authorities and courts deciding to overlook the criminals and go after the witness instead.
Get all of the truth out and let everyone culpable face appropriate charges. I’m not sure Pelosi would face indictment, but I do know many others who would.
PEACE
May 18th, 2009 at 6:30 pmbackup, it’s still at the point of he said/she said. And even if Pelosi knew ANYTHING, she wasn’t even the minority leader at that point, and the democrats were the butt of jokes on Leno about being powerless.
This is a mass diversionary tactic that is indeed backfiring. BTW, I happen to appreciate your respectful and calm presence.
May 18th, 2009 at 6:33 pmVery beautiful, however, Pelosi did take ‘Impeachment off the table’. She was briefed on torture techniques (Enhanced interrogation crap slogan).
May 18th, 2009 at 6:42 pmRepublicans and Democrats in Congress are responsible in different degrees of what has happened to the US. From after 2006 election, democrats continued to give the War Criminals Bush/Chenney/Pertraeus/Gates a blank check for the illegal invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan.
Obama, the new War President, is escalating the Afghanistan offensive, still at war in Iraq, still contracting Xe/Blackwater and worse, he chose MacCrystal(Meth) (The chief extrajudicial assassination US squad) for the command of the occupation in Afghanistan.
This blame game may play well in the US, but the World is watching and very well aware of the unwillingness of Obama/Gates/IndustrialMilitaryCongressionalComplex to prosecute the USA’s WAR CRIMINALS.
The only change that came to Washington was how quickly ObaOba changed his rhetoric on War.
So Gingrich & crew expect Pelosi to present evidence that she didn’t know all the dirty details.
How does he expect her to prove a negative ? Until Newt can produce a videotape of the briefing, he can STFU.
May 18th, 2009 at 6:42 pmwhat this is, is a criminal gang that took over Washington, a republican criminal gang. They bombed then invaded a country a cross the planet, and tortured hundreds with their reckless crusade.
The MSM can’t function without their republican opposition being present. To do that they would have write new shows and hope people still watch.
Are we witnessing the failure of the republican party or the failure of the MSM? They are obviously locked in a mutually satisfying embrace but it seems to me the MSM have the real power here.
May 18th, 2009 at 6:47 pm“See, in my line of work you got to keep repeating things over and over and over again for the truth to sink in, to kind of catapult the propaganda.” GWB Greece, N.Y., May 24, 2005
May 18th, 2009 at 6:49 pmbackup Says:
If it was so obviously objectionable at the time, why didn’t she speak up?
Because it’s illegal to divulge classified information.
Don’t get me wrong. I’m not a Pelosi fan and would love to see her voted out. But, in this instance, she was powerless to do anything but, privately, voice her opposition.
May 18th, 2009 at 6:53 pmShouldnt she be asking the head of the RNC, Limbaugh, this question instead of Newt?
Heh
May 18th, 2009 at 6:55 pmAgain, the administration LIED to the American people for years upon years. Why is it so hard to believe that the Speaker was also lied to? I’m sorry but I have to go with Pelosi on this one until evidence reveals otherwise.
Oh and OS nice try at trying to sound witty. I’m afraid however that you have failed miserably. Try a little harder next time k?
May 18th, 2009 at 6:58 pmPelosi was briefed on a policy — not given veto power of it.
That would have been the unitary executive, you know, the one Rice said that if the president authorized it it was legal.
May 18th, 2009 at 7:02 pmThank you, McWars. I re-read my post around #12. There is a problem with her stepping aside. Although, it would indicate a non-partisan desire on the part of torture opposing progressives (regardless of which party’s members were complicit), it would/could legitimize the Republican position that Democrats share the blame. Additionally, if Pelosi did step aside, Republicans can claim that she was not the only Democrat informed (there were other Democrats briefed). After Pelosi stepped aside, Republicans could point to those Democrats.
I’ve been thinking that it would strengthen the progressive position to pursue the torture policies if Pelosi fell on her sword. But, after thinking about, it probably wouldn’t make much difference.
May 18th, 2009 at 7:03 pmpete. I get what you are saying, but it seems reasonable to me that she would have at least spoken up in the briefing.
It would not compromise the intelligence if she expressed reservations within the secure briefing.
And, if she did not have the presence of mind to speak up during that briefing, couldn’t she have contacted the very same intelligence directors (responsible for the initial briefing) at a later time, to express her reservations? without compromising the intelligence?
May 18th, 2009 at 7:10 pmWell said, Matthew. And happy birthday.
May 18th, 2009 at 7:10 pmLets just repeat what Matthew said:
But whatever it is Nancy Pelosi knew about, George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, John Yoo, Jay Bybee, they knew more. And ultimately, when we have a thorough investigation of what happened, the bulk of the blame has to lie with the architects of the policy, not with a member of the opposition party.
Trolls: This is our mission. To figure out who did what. If you don’t want an invesigation you probably have something to hide. The GOP is a smallish cult filled with authoritarian bullies. They don’t solve problems, they create them.
May 18th, 2009 at 7:19 pmWe need a Special Prosecutor appointed.
I nominate David Iglesias. I think he would conduct the investigation fairly and prosecute whomever needs to be prosecuted, including the POTUS and VPOTUS (and SecDef, too).
May 18th, 2009 at 7:20 pmWell, b-kup, I think that her public remarks on torture have been pretty consistent and would lead one to believe that she did voice those concerns. Alas, it appears she wasn’t fully briefed and she didn’t have the clout to change the policy.
To the last Administration she was just another Dem to be condemned as “anti-American” every time she said “Boo!” about the disastrous foreign policy of Bushco.
May 18th, 2009 at 7:21 pm… just getting here… these googlenews headlines got me to thinking…
i think it might be time to get behind a wholehearted defense of the lady speaker of the USHouse… nancy hurt the feelings of the big bad CIA so all the rushpubliCONs run to help…
nancy shouldn’t have to deal with that crap by herself…
Pelosi’s approval rating plummets
Boston Globe – ?21 minutes ago?
Embattled House Speaker Nancy Pelosi has approval ratings nearly as low as Newt Gingrich when he was the primary lightning rod in Congress, a new poll says.
Huckabee’s Pelosi Poem Kansas City Star
Top Republicans want apology or proof from Pelosi CNN
FOXNews – Christian Science Monitor – Politico – Washington Post
all 2,955 news articles »
http://news.google.com/news/more?pz=1&ncl=d74QDKWEeoQEsMMLPaofrXaSs97HM&topic=h
doncha think?
May 18th, 2009 at 7:24 pmoh, ed schultz used some MEDIA MATTERS info about all the trash talk…
dispicible.
May 18th, 2009 at 7:26 pmWe need a Truth Committee to help form a Truth Commission. To do that we must solicit the services of a Common Sense Committee Commission.
May 18th, 2009 at 7:29 pmWasn’t the MSM telling us we must go to war because that is what they were told by the Bush Administration? This movie has been play far to many times…Investigate.
May 18th, 2009 at 7:39 pmWe have to stop letting the right wing frame this issue.
May 18th, 2009 at 7:40 pmIt’s not “What did Pelosi know and when did she know it?”
It’s “What did Bush do and when did he do it?”
Unlike the neocons, the left I know want all the truth to come out. Not just the pieces that would make their political opponents look bad. Breaking the law is not partisan. All those involved need to be brought to justice.
May 18th, 2009 at 7:42 pmI disagree that Pelosi had no recourse. She was the ranking Democrat on the house intelligence committee.
Assuming she was opposed to waterboarding at the outset, she could have raised objections at the briefing. She could have insisted on meetings with administration officials or other intelligence committee members that had authorization to the intelligence.
I do not see how a member of Congress, the ranking Democrat on the house intelligence committee, somehow is powerless when she is informed that the U.S. is either using, or contemplating using, torture against enemy combatants.
Our representatives in Congress are also our national leadership.
It’s possible that she was lied too. But, that seems hard to believe in light of the other accounts.
She could have felt intimidated by the administration. If that’s true, it’s not very flattering of someone who has pledged to represent us.
She could also have also thought that waterboarding was acceptable (or at least politically acceptable), in light of the perceived threat of the time. And her subsequent objections were made in an atmosphere of diminished threat and/or a shifting political climate.
It seems that what transpired in those briefings needs resolution, if progressives hope to get traction pursuing those responsible for the waterboarding policy.
May 18th, 2009 at 7:53 pmHappy Birthday Matthew Yglesias! You said it best:
But whatever it is Nancy Pelosi knew about, George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, John Yoo, Jay Bybee, they knew more. And ultimately, when we have a thorough investigation of what happened, the bulk of the blame has to lie with the architects of the policy, not with a member of the opposition party.
May 18th, 2009 at 7:55 pmWell, I recall that slam dunk Tenet was misleading…
Was he at the briefing?
May 18th, 2009 at 8:03 pmI am by no means a Pelosi supporter but this prove a negative antics needs to stop. Unless the accusers and pundits are willing to work to make the transcripts of the briefing public — if they cant put up then they need to shut up.
May 18th, 2009 at 8:07 pmbackup Says:
It’s possible that she was lied too. But, that seems hard to believe in light of the other accounts.
Are you familiar with former Sen Bob Graham’s story about the CIA’s notes? For me, this presents a very solid reason to not accept the CIA’s word at face value.
BTW, what other “accounts” are you speaking of here? Is the Republicans like Boehner saying “The CIA never lied to me“? Because that kind of support proves nothing. How would Boehner have ever known that he was being lied to, if the only people who knew the truth were the ones sitting across the table from him lying to his face?
May 18th, 2009 at 8:07 pmWhy didnt these people come forward?
May 18th, 2009 at 8:10 pmXisithrus Says:
House and Senate Republicans briefed that September have said they weren’t misled, but haven’t stated whether they were told interrogators were using waterboarding at the time.
As I said to backup, how would they know? The only people who knew the truth were the ones sitting across the table from them. If they were lying, who would have known and been able to tell the Congress people that they were being lied to. It’s a meaningless argument for them to make. Unless they were actually there at something that the CIA did, they wouldn’t know if the CIA was telling the truth or not. And since it’s their primary job to lie and deceive, I really don’t understand the knee-jerk reaction to say “They never lied to me.”
May 18th, 2009 at 8:15 pmOS says
propaganda much?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Moron ALWAYS?
May 18th, 2009 at 8:15 pmIs O’Donnell dating Newt?
May 18th, 2009 at 8:37 pmI think Nora might spend too much time on her wardrobe and make up so she fails to get the news reported on her own network.
May 18th, 2009 at 8:53 pmMaybe they opened Limbaughs cranium and removed the tin foil truth detector..
May 18th, 2009 at 8:53 pmNorah might be more than a little biased in how she reports –
May 18th, 2009 at 8:54 pmShe traveled extensively with Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld.
Hanninewty
May 18th, 2009 at 8:56 pmall this outrage and defense of the CIA – i don’t remember a bit of that when an agent, who was working on iranian nuclear information, had her cover blown, putting a lot more operatives and civilians in harms way (at best)…
huh…
May 18th, 2009 at 9:25 pmWayne and rhf. I’ll admit to not knowing enough about it.
My impression is this: Nancy Pelosi was the ranking Democrat on the intelligence committee. She was briefed in 2003 by the CIA that either waterboarding was being used or that the administration believed they had legal justification to use waterboarding.
I don’t know what Pelosi is referring to when she alledges that the CIA lied to her.
Whether she was briefed that the administration was waterboarding or whether she was briefed that they were claiming legal justification to waterboard is basically immaterial.
If Pelosi thought waterboarding was torture in 2003. If she was opposed to waterboarding and torture in 2003. Why didn’t she act to stop it then? When she was informed?
Her apparent lack of response gives many the impression that she either did not believe that waterboarding was torture or that the technique was an appropriate means to attain information for terror suspects – at the time.
Unless that is effectively refuted, it makes it plausible that if Pelosi was in accord, the decisions made by the administration did not seem unreasonable – at the time.
I agree with those who call for a commission. An objective commission, that would ferret out our government’s decision to waterboard. A non-partisan commission to find the answers without jeopardizing our national security.
May 18th, 2009 at 9:34 pmBob Graham says the CIA lied, too.
May 18th, 2009 at 10:05 pmbackup,
Please, dude, we’ve explained ad nauseum why she didn’t say anything publicly. Please read the replies we give you (and while you’re at it, be grateful that we do reply; some of us believe that you’re trying to understand, and we’re more than happy to help.)
I’ll tell you why I oppose a Congressional investigation: Because our Congress cannot be trusted to oversee itself. I prefer a Special Prosecutor, with full subpoena power to compel testimony under oath, be appointed to investigate this entire matter. Yes, it will take years, but since it is quite obvious that War Crimes were committed, the people who authorized it belong in prison, no matter what party they were in. (BTW, the Congress did not “authorize” any torture, the Bush Administration claimed it did. Let’s be clear about that.) Besides, if we don’t start our own investigation, and damn soon, some other country will proceed with theirs, and it would be perfectly legal for them to do so. (We agreed to it when we ratified certain treaties.)
Her apparent lack of response gives many the impression that she either did not believe that waterboarding was torture or that the technique was an appropriate means to attain information for terror suspects – at the time.
Unless that is effectively refuted, it makes it plausible that if Pelosi was in accord, the decisions made by the administration did not seem unreasonable – at the time.
Just because you can’t think of a reason why your own made-up theory can’t be wrong does not prove it is true. She has been responding, as far as she is legally allowed to do so. Once any details of those meetings is declassified, she can say more. But right now, the law prevents her from saying much more than she has. (Assuming she’s okay so far.) And she was “never in accord”, so don’t think of it that way.
One last thing. You do realize, do you not, that the right wing’s argument has gone from “We never tortured. We never waterboarded.” to “We waterboarded, but Nancy Pelosi knew about it. There ought to be an investigation.”
Waterboarding is torture, and there can be no dispute about that. Torturing anyone picked up on a battlefield is a War Crime. That is a fact. We waterboarded people we picked up on the battlefield. That is a fact. We committed War Crimes. That is a fact.
It’s not “What did Pelosi know, and when did she know it?”
May 18th, 2009 at 10:05 pmIt’s “What did Bush do, and when did he do it?”
Why why why does the media always fall for these bullshit reich wing antics. They are falling for the Pelosi did it, blame her shell game hook line and sinker! Are they really that clueless as the what is REALLY going on. Hint: has absolutely NOTHNING to do with Pelosi!
May 18th, 2009 at 10:30 pmIt appears the Republicans are playing a game of chicken with the President. Obama tried to keep this off the front burner but the Republicans refused to let it go. It appears that the only recourse is a special prosecutor and this will take it out of the political domain. The Republicans are betting that won’t happen. They think Pelosi was their trump card.
It appears this is a game of brinksmanship. Who will be the first to blink?
May 18th, 2009 at 10:34 pmWayne. you sound strong on the issue.
It took me a long time, but I came to the conclusion that waterboarding is torture.
And I believe that we should not be torturing suspects to get information for at least two reasons. It’s probably not reliable information and, most importantly, it’s immoral.
So, in my mind, the question becomes, should the administration have known better? Is what they did criminal? Or was it a rational position based on the conditions at the time they made the decisions? And that our current judgements are influenced by today’s lower threat level and the clarity of hindsight?
I don’t know what transpired during the briefings. Pelosi’s comments have been unclear. But, the impression I have gotten from watching her address the issue, is that she knew about waterboarding and didn’t take any substantive action to prevent it or stop it, at the time.
I don’t buy the idea that a representative of Congress would feel compelled to remain silent or fail to act on the issue of the U.S. using torture; simply to protect the intelligence. For the similar reason we wouldn’t expect a soldier to carry out an illegal order.
Unless there is more information that clarifies her response to being informed of the U.S. use of waterboarding (or the intent to waterboard), I am left with the impression that it was not just the administration that thought waterboarding was appropriate for the circumstance.
That is the central issue for me. If it was an isolated mindset, limited to the administration; it’s much easier to point towards criminality.
The more who were outside the administration that knew and were complicit, the more difficult to reason it was criminal.
May 18th, 2009 at 10:39 pmMy impression is this: Nancy Pelosi was the ranking Democrat on the intelligence committee.
No, she was not the ranking Democrat, Harmon was.
I Have yet to hear or read a clear argument about what Pelosi was supposed to have done. Write a letter? That’s about all she could do.
Right?
BTW, I’m still amazed that anyone would be amazed that the CIA might have lied.
May 18th, 2009 at 10:52 pmi KNOW! it’s what they do!
and everybody knows it!
it’s another show…
nancy hurt the poor widdle CIA feelings…
… go girl!
May 18th, 2009 at 11:30 pmNicely done, b-cup. Have you patented that apologist technology yet? If you could secure the rights and license it to the GOP, you could make a fortune.
May 19th, 2009 at 12:31 amHappy Birthday! May you have many more.
I love how you don’t bite your tongue.
May 19th, 2009 at 12:37 amKeep up the good work.
Just because the Newtser lost had to give up his seat he feels that Pelosi should give up hers,he easn`t in tha room as Matt said so how does he know what was said.As long as Cheney keeps on talking and Mitch McChinless and the Bonerm are on his said……..enough said.The tent keeps getting smaller don`t it?
May 19th, 2009 at 1:28 am.
People,
I know I’ve harped on how Pelosi is attempting to defend her position: “What did she know and when”…
… However, as Matthew Yglesias points out, making Pelosi discuss these issues in a contextual manner, it forces the discussion BACK upon the key players who were directly involved. Now we have key players who are defending their involvement as being necessary…
… Consider this: Like the TORTURE photos, do we really need to see them? And why is this? Is it because of the details they will provide to the average citizen of the world, to what level America sunk? Or are they the red herring of the fact, indeed, WAR CRIMES were committed? But do people really care to see the blood, the savagery. Just knowing the evidence exists is enough.
The same with Pelosi’s position. It isn’t so much whether or not she WAS briefed, but that these crimes were committed, in the first place. Briefing ANYONE about them does, in no way, make it legal. In fact, now that Pelosi came out with the proverbial “PUNCH” it forces the hand of those who perpetrated these crimes to step up their rhetoric as to why WAR CRIMES are defensible.
I still want to know how crushing a little boys testicles, placing a child into a box with scorpions, and sodomizing children with a broom handle is NOT illegal.
Any G(no)P takers on that one?
.
May 19th, 2009 at 1:41 amEverybody knows Spyin is Lyin
May 19th, 2009 at 6:32 amThe more who were outside the administration that knew and were complicit, the more difficult to reason it was criminal.
No wonder it took you so long to “decide” waterboarding is torture:
YOU’RE A FCUKING DIPSHIT.
In NO WAY does the number of persons “in on it” diminish the criminality.
Again, YOU’RE A FCUKING MORON.
May 19th, 2009 at 9:25 amMax Anax junius -1 Says: Like the TORTURE photos, do we really need to see them? And why is this?
Mostly because a picture is worth a thousand words and there are still too many Americans who believe the WORDS they have been sold about how torture isn’t.
The tide against Viet Nam really turned when various photos were published. I wish it wasn’t so but wishing don’t make it so.
May 19th, 2009 at 9:43 amCorporate media spin from this whore. Break up the media monopolies is what we must do. As soon as possible.
May 19th, 2009 at 10:32 amHow could our bright and shiny Republicans torture? After all, they were only protecting us from Evil! Making the world a safer place for all god fearing citizens. Curious indeed! What about that Evil, huh? Always hurting, torturing, burning and such. Not the Good Guys! They do what’s Right. Scouts Honor. Tell the Truth no matter what! I do believe…I do believe…I do believe…….
May 20th, 2009 at 3:17 amArtist color mixing question: If you mix equal parts unbridled greed, horrific hate, ruthless manipulation, filthy lies, and a glob of religion what do you get? A color so evasive you need a truth commission to see it!
May 20th, 2009 at 3:32 am