Insurance Lobby Reverses Course, Prepares To Smear Key Element Of Obama’s Health Reform
Insurance Lobby Reverses Course, Prepares To Smear Key Element Of Obama’s Health Reform
Last week, the health insurance lobby met with President Obama and pledged to “work together” to provide quality, affordable coverage and access for every American. In less than five days, the insurers not only broke that promise, but the Washington Post reports that Blue Cross Blue Shield of North Carolina has drafted ads aimed at smearing the President’s proposed public health insurance plan.
The Post obtained a copy of the story boards for the ads attacking the public plan. The description for one ad depicts a woman trapped in a hallway of locked doors:
[The mother's hand tries another door, as her child begins to get visibly anxious and restless. Still no luck. In rapid-fire succession, we see their hands trying a series of doorknobs. The pair is seen making their way to the next door, as the tension builds. It seems as if their search may be fruitless.]
While “innocent-sounding piano music, vaguely reminiscent of a nursery rhyme” plays in the background of this increasingly dramatic scene, the narrator intones:
“We can do a lot better than a government-run health care system.”
Rather than being an honest partner in the debate on health reform, the health insurance industry appears to be launching a campaign of misinformation aimed at sinking any serious prospect for change. The leader of the trade group representing the health insurance lobby, Karen Ignagni, made headlines earlier this year when she promised to the President, “you have our commitment, to play, to contribute and to pass health care reform this year.” Curiously, the date on the ad storyboard is May 9th, meaning that at least one major health insurance company has been secretly planning to assault health reform for several weeks.
The strategy is stunningly reminiscent of the last attempt to reform the system in 1993. As Igor Volsky has noted, the insurance industry made a public relations push to appear to be on the side of reform at the outset of the debate in 1992/1993, but then quickly reversed course and fought bitterly to kill health reform. Back then, the health lobby spent millions flooding the airwaves with deceptive commercials, paying astroturf firms to fabricate public opposition to reform, and hiring lobbyists to defeat reform.
Not only is the health industry operating from the same playbook from 1993, it’s being run by largely the same characters. Frank Luntz, who helped guide Republican efforts to defeat Clinton’s health plan, is currently being paid by health insurance companies like Blue Cross Blue Shield while also advising Congressional Republicans on what type of language to use to defeat health care reform.
Notably, Luntz, Blue Cross Blue Shield, and groups like Conservatives for Patients’ Rights are all attacking a public health care option with the debunked notion of “rationed care.” But of course, Obama’s health care plan option is just that, optional. If Americans prefer having insurance companies determine their treatments and costs, no one is forcing them to change. Opponents of reform would prefer to have a monopoly over health care, because the status quo is still quite profitable.
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“We can do a lot better than a government-run health care system.”
“Just give us a chance! Ignore the last 20 years! Let’s move forward!”
May 19th, 2009 at 10:20 amIt is time to break the stranglehold of the insurance companies on American healthcare. WE have the most expensive yet relatively inefficient and restricted health care because of the insurance companies’ squeezing out huge profits for their corporate officers and financiers.
May 19th, 2009 at 10:21 amThe insurance companies fear real competition that would make them have to provide better services at reasonable costs.
May 19th, 2009 at 10:23 amI’ve seen the attack ads where they show a couple people from Canada who didn’t get the best service possible and as a result of some complication or misdiagnosis were having additional health issues as a result. That’s still better care than nearly 50 millions Americans get at all…
May 19th, 2009 at 10:27 amCall me a pessimist, but I don’t believe any substantive changes in healthcare will happen any time soon. There is no bottomless pit of money available to counter all the money that will be spent by those opposing change to mis-inform the public. Big money will win again.
May 19th, 2009 at 10:28 amHealth insurance companies are afraid that they will not be allowed to add their cost to the cost of being healthy anymore.
Private health insurance is a tax on health care.
May 19th, 2009 at 10:29 amThis is a surprise?
Why?
By what kind of delusional logic does ANYONE think these insurance parasites were just going to shrug their shoulders and altruistically walk away from phucking BILLIONS of dollar$?
This is a set-up to make Baucus’ bill look like a big deal, and give the propagandists something to brag about withOUT changing the essential mechanism of fleecing the people for the profit of the elite.
No culture can call itself civilized when the health of the people is sublimated to the wealth of the elite…
May 19th, 2009 at 10:29 amHow about the other side put up some of the present agreements the health insurance companies issue to their subscribers?
About which doctors and hospitals are covered and how pre-approval by some nonmedical type is required for various procedures?
Or how you have to get a referral from an in-system doctor to go to another doctor, said referral having to be validated by the same nonmedical types?
Or put out some of the information about all the various dodges the insurance companies use to keep from paying on valid claims?
Or post listings of the numbers of medical bankruptcies.
Or even the number of hometown benefits sponsored every year that try to keep families afloat when faced with outrageous medical expenses.
Fight back.
May 19th, 2009 at 10:30 amDoc rock, you are absolutly right its time to break the stranglehold of the ins. co. then maybe something will be accomplished.
May 19th, 2009 at 10:31 amMost Americans are paying through the nose for what is essentially rationed care now. When an insurance company or HMO can decide what doctors they will allow to perform a procedure they can create an artificial constraint on the number of those procedures done. This forces their customers to line up if they want full coverage on that procedure. Or, you can go outside the system and pay considerably more for the same procedure.
American’s are getting fleeced. Until we decide we have enough pride to stand up and demand value for our money our Congress people will continue to be bribed using the money stolen from our wallets.
May 19th, 2009 at 10:31 amWhy is American business so afraid of competition? In one breath they loudly proclaim that they’re the best in the world and in the next they wet themselves when someone has the audacity to suggest the consumer be given a choice….
May 19th, 2009 at 10:31 amYeah I’m not optimistic, basically “big health” is a very powerful lobby where alot of people are making alot of money,and is about as interested in your health as “big food” is making sure you get a nutrious balanced diet..its not about keeping patients healthy its about someone making a killing off things like charging someone 200$ to read a pregnancy test…
May 19th, 2009 at 10:31 amI think the biggest difference between now and 1993 is that people are living the nightmare of no health care or inadequate and expensive health care. It’s gonna be a lot harder to convince people who are living the nightmare to vote against their own self-interests this time.
Obama needs to treat this as another grassroots movement.
May 19th, 2009 at 10:32 amHoodathunktick – that’s exactly what the pro-health care fight must do – show how what we have is worse than what Canada has – for twice the cost.
May 19th, 2009 at 10:35 amHad Obama and company started out supporting single-payer, they could hit back showing what a disaster private insurance has been and how much better full public coverage works in every other country. Since they’ve already effectively conceded that argument, they can’t effectively defend a case for even limited/optional public coverage.
May 19th, 2009 at 10:35 am“Dreams are illusions;
May 19th, 2009 at 10:39 amWe know what’s best for you” say
Lampreys on the trout
Why is American business so afraid of competition?
Capitalism works this way: Entrepeneurs struggle to make a useful product. Competition ensues, in which all competitors try to gain a monopoly. One product dominates (or one corporation buys out the competition). The manufacturer of the dominant product then seeks government protection for his monopoly.
Monopoly is the only natural end-state for capitalism. Competition weeds out the week, and “success” is signaled by the emergence of the monopoly.
May 19th, 2009 at 10:41 amSomeday, soon, Obama will realize that reaching across the table to these bastards only results in retrieving your stump.
May 19th, 2009 at 10:43 amSince they’ve already effectively conceded that argument, they can’t effectively defend a case for even limited/optional public coverage.
Nobody EVER had ANY intention of ENACTING ’single payer.’ It was ALWAYS a campaign ploy, floated out there to attract the “hopey-changey” folks.
May 19th, 2009 at 10:43 amHere come Harry and Louise!
The cheap-*ssed production values of these pieces of propaganda…they could only work on a complete moron.
And they do.
May 19th, 2009 at 10:44 amtokin librul Says:
Monopoly is the only natural end-state for capitalism. Competition weeds out the week, and “success” is signaled by the emergence of the monopoly.
And then the monopoly creates the cheapest product and sells it for the maximum profit, with no regards to quality or safety — only profit.
May 19th, 2009 at 10:44 amSo many good posts on this already.
May 19th, 2009 at 10:46 amWhen you look at teevee news programming as a whole and you see the multi-gazillion dollar corporations lobbying and fighting to keep the right to screw the public, the picture looks pretty fu[king dim.
Gary Kleppe sed:
“…they’ve already effectively conceded that argument…”
Without even a trace of a fight. I smell a fix. From the start. I’m tired of being ditched to the side of the road, like I was a dirty f**king hippie…
May 19th, 2009 at 10:46 amThat’s a great idea, Hooda, with one problem:
it all takes money. Mounting an ad campaign takes money. Production of TV spots takes money. Buying the airtime takes a lot of money.
Insurance companies have a lot of money. Advocates for health care reform, not so much.
May 19th, 2009 at 10:46 amNobody EVER had ANY intention of ENACTING ’single payer.’
Nobody in the administration or in the Congressional leadership did, no. But there are some rank-and-file Congress members who do support it, including Kucinich who campaigned for President on it. Maybe next time the “hopey-changey folks” will think about supporting someone like him.
May 19th, 2009 at 10:47 amunbelievable sed:
“…what we have is worse than what Canada has – for twice the cost.”
It’s more than twice, isn’t it? We spend about $5K per capita, they spend a little more than ONE…amazing. Somebody’s getting rich, and it ain’t me.
May 19th, 2009 at 10:48 amralph the wonder locust Says: That’s a great idea, Hooda, with one problem:
it all takes money. Mounting an ad campaign takes money. Production of TV spots takes money. Buying the airtime takes a lot of money.
Agreed. But not too long ago some bright type figured out how to harness the internet and raised substantial money from the grass roots type.
If only someone could figure out how to do it again. It would be interesting to see if the average American can buy their government back.
May 19th, 2009 at 10:52 amIsn’t this straight out of the LUNDT playbook, to attack anything but leave off President Obama’s name. Anyone who is seeing these “attack” ads need to report back exactly who/what is being attacked?
As we should know, this is a plan to KILL ANY CHANGE, not to offer a solution.
HuffPo highlighted the Oregon attack ad…but I am sure there are plenty more to come.
Note to anyone looking at the Canadian Numbers need to wake up and look at actual numbers, which are listed by providence, not the country as a whole.
May 19th, 2009 at 10:54 amHow sadly ironic it is that the French, whom Americans sometimes love to hate, can have a national system of health care far better than the US.
May 19th, 2009 at 10:55 amThe Blues are the bullies of healthcare. In North Dakota, the so-called “nonprofit” BCBS is a functional monopoly, able to dictate to medical providers what rates and discounts they will have for themselves while screwing the individual payer, often the poorest among us. Meanwhile, the Blues have their corp jet, their in-house health club, their glittery office building, etc, etc. I’m willing to bet they also have too many politicians on both sides of the aisle in their pockets.
What part of greed and corruption is worth saving from this?
Single payer public healthcare must be part of the package.
May 19th, 2009 at 11:02 am“We can do a lot better than a government-run health care system.”
So does that mean there’s been a slew of government employees complaining about their health plans? I must have missed that.
May 19th, 2009 at 11:10 amI remember when in early years of Clinton, when he tried to reform the health care system (1992/1993), how much his plan was attacked.
One of the biggest lies used then:
- I have the right to choose my doctor-,
used in commercials to sell to Americans.
The reality is most health insured people are under plans that will not permit them to choose their doctors outside the insuring companies plans.
May 19th, 2009 at 11:14 amBCBS of NC is running scared. They are trying to hype the fear of a public plan failing because of their very real fear that it will succeed.
They will never tell you that nobody is going to be FORCED to take the public plan. They will never tell you that public plan or not, they’ll still be available for their customers (unless so many of their customer flee to the public plan they’re out of business). And they will never tell you that in order to compete with a public plan, they’ll have to cut their profit margin and operate leaner — giving their customers more for their money. No — their only hope is to convince the American public that “a government-run health care system” doesn’t mean a competitive public health plan, it means we’re going to become the Soviet Union. And they’re going to push images of a bloated, incompetent, red-tape clogged government bureaucracy, not mentioning that Medicare has worked quite well for over 40 years now.
(Ironically, if private companies really were so much more efficient than the government, BCBS wouldn’t have a thing to worry about from the competition. They’d be saying, “bring it on!”)
I’m sure BCBS of NC won’t be the only one with this type of campaign. As the threat of a competitive public plan becomes more of a reality, there will be many more private for-profit insurers who will take to the airwaves.
The public plan will need an advertising blitz of its own if it’s to survive.
May 19th, 2009 at 11:16 am“We can do a lot better than a government-run health care system.”
____________________________________________________________
If this is true, why haven’t we? Why are we in the mess we’re in?
This gambit worked in 1993. But now insurance rates are a great deal higher, with many people paying more for health insurance and out-of-pocket for health care than they do for mortgages and rent. And even people who get health insurance mostly paid for by their employer still pay more for their portion of the premiums than they do for groceries.
And far more people are uninsured than 1993. Priced out of the market, kicked out of the market for having a pre-existing condition, or their employer can no longer afford to provide that benefit.
Even those who have insurance and aren’t going broke paying for the premiums are finding far more restrictions on the care they get. They have to choose a doctor within the “network” or pay a fortune for one outside it. Their doctor has to fight with the insurance company to get permission to give proper treatment, keep a patient in the hospital long enough to recover, and get tests done that can result in a proper diagnosis.
In other words, all the horror stories about a “government program” hyped by the private companies are already a reality for people insured by these same private companies.
And we’re not falling for the crap anymore.
May 19th, 2009 at 11:25 am“We can do a lot better than a government-run health care system.”
Obviously they can’t, or they would be.
If they want to fight it, get the basic and catastrophic coverage low-priced anyone can have it package out there TODAY.
May 19th, 2009 at 11:30 amProblem for them is, the majority of American’s are already too painfully aware that PRIVATE-run health care sucks dirty donkey dongs.
Good luck!
May 19th, 2009 at 11:32 amDoc Rock Says:
How sadly ironic it is that the French, whom Americans sometimes love to hate, can have a national system of health care far better than the US
We hate them for their socialized health care. /snort/
May 19th, 2009 at 11:36 amWe hate them for their socialized health care. /snort/
Ignorant, ugly Americans (GOP) hate anything and everyone they envy.
They wouldn’t know empathy or sympathy if it bit them on the a$$.
May 19th, 2009 at 11:41 amtarazan Says:
One of the biggest lies used then:
- I have the right to choose my doctor-,
used in commercials to sell to Americans.
The reality is most health insured people are under plans that will not permit them to choose their doctors outside the insuring companies plans.
Bingo! I lived in Canada for over 20 years and I never once had any restriction on who I could use as my doctors.
Unlike here in the U.S. where I had to change doctors when the company I was working for changed plans and the doctor I had been using, who was great, wasn’t on the new health insurance company’s list of acceptable physicians.
May 19th, 2009 at 11:46 amIn reading most of your “government runs everything better” posts a few questions came to mind.
If our private healthcare system is so corrupt and inefficient and government run healthcare is so effective, why do the citizens from countries with government run healthcare come to the United States for treatment? I’ll site two examples of government run health care in the US, Medicare and Medicaid, have they been run effectively? Yes that was a loaded question, so knowing the answer why would you wish to saddle that monstrosity on every citizen?
Get off of your soapbox of morality and stop deluding yourself, Nationalized Healthcare is nothing more than taking from those who can pay for healthcare and giving it to those who can not. There is another word for that, theft. When I have the option of helping you I am more willing to do so and will feel better about myself for it, that is what charity is all about, on the other hand, when you force me to help you I’ll resent you every step of the way and if I can I’ll tell you to take a hike. Charity is optional, tyranny is forced. There is a difference.
It scares me that most of you are actually satisfied with politicians, Republicans or Democrats, making the decisions on what healthcare you and your family should have. Don’t kid yourself, the government does not want competition they want control, just listen to what your representatives are saying.
I will not pretend that I know all of the answers, but I do know this, the government is not the answer. If you want something you have to work for it, the government will not and should not give it to you. Please understand that, in the history of man, nothing is given for free, including healthcare.
May 19th, 2009 at 11:48 amThe reason why this may happen is that an awful lot of big companies want national health care.
May 19th, 2009 at 11:48 amIf the government dealt with it, then suddenly they don’t have to pay for it –and their HR departments can become a helluva lot smaller. They become more competitive in world markets–and can even hire people much more easily.
This really isn’t a ‘corporate america vs. the little guy” situation.
It’s a ‘health insurance industry vs. the little guy AND most of the rest of corporate America.”
It’s not just individuals who are tired of this.
What’s funny is that they didn’t think this would get out. The production company that is doing this sure doesn’t insure their crew so why wouldn’t the crew leak this to the press (I am assuming one of them did) it is in their best interests. Good for the person who got this script out.
May 19th, 2009 at 11:49 amI pay about $1400 per year for single payer. I choose my own doctor, never have spoken to a government offical about my health care, never denied any service, never recieved a bill and never had to worry about going bankrupt due to medical realsons…(im 45). I have had two operations, one serious problem when i was 4 where I was an outpatient for 12 years to monitor my condition….total cost to me parents $0.00
Because of single payer, my family was able to send me to collage (without having to borrow money), took family vacations (brought the family closer…family values). My parents saved for retirement, and life as a hole was worry free when it came to our health.
I wish for all americans to recieve the health care we have in Canada. When ever someone puts down our system, it’s because your politicans who favor pay through the nose insurance are a front for the insurance companies. IF this was a business decision based on cost, I gaurentee you, the SINGLE PAYER SYSTEM would be enacted yesterday. It’s to bad your government doen’t see it that way. It’s the AIG problem of health care….keep dumping money into a loosing propasition. SMART OBAMA….STOP PROTECTING A MONEY LOOSING BUSINESS FOR THE PUBLIC!!!
May 19th, 2009 at 11:55 amjburr says: If you want something you have to work for it, the government will not and should not give it to you. Please understand that, in the history of man, nothing is given for free, including healthcare.
Other than the usual discredited talking points, this one tells it all. Nobody is calling for free health care, period. They just want to pay for health care not some insurance companies profits.
And, next time you need a cop or your house is on fire, don’t be calling those ‘free’ institutions.
May 19th, 2009 at 12:00 pmjburr
Your post is Delusional. First far more AMERICANS go to Canada trying to get medical care and medicine than the other way around. That is a rightwing canard I have NEVER seen supported. Only two percent of Canadians would rather have a private healthcare system. Medicare IS efficient. Their overhead is about two or three percent as compared to the Twenty five to thirty percent for HMOs. Keep WHINING about helping our Fellow Americans who are not as fortunate as you. 18,000 Americans a year DIE from lack of access to healthcare and you selfish Ebenezer Scrooge worshippers dont care in the LEAST about that as long as it doesnt cost YOU a nickle. This is a democratic decision and a majority of people WANT a universal healthcare even if they have to pay higher taxes to get it. If you are so selfish you just flat dont want to chip in to have a better society. Just go away. Go, take all your libertarian I got mine get yours or DIE friends and go live on an Island and let us televise you re-enacting the Lord of the Flies. We are trying to have a civilization here and we are tired of draggin you petulant selfish children along.
HMOs ALREADY make our health decisions. The difference is THEY make them trying to maximize their profits which gives THEM an incentive to deny my care or to use only the cheapest care that might endanger my life. A gov official would have no real motive to care one way or another what my care is since his paycheck wont be dependent on him saving money. THAT is IF the government would be involved in ANY way other than payment. Every industrial country in the world has a national healthcare system except us and though we pay the MOST both per capita AND as a percentage of our GDP we are only 37th on the WHO quality ranking. Half of ALL bankrupcies are healthcare related and more than half of THOSE the people STARTED with healthcare. Then they missed too much work because it was serious and LOST that healthcare. The system is BROKEN. Time to look at what is working IN THE REST OF THE WORLD
May 19th, 2009 at 12:00 pmwhy do the citizens from countries with government run healthcare come to the United States for treatment?
I DON’T KNOW, WHY DON’T YOU ASK FARHA FAUCETT WHY SHE WENT TO GERMANY FOR TREATMENT?????
The people who come to America for treatment are usally people who have been told by there medical staff, there is nothing we can do….so they run to a private clinc for that last hope. After getting drained for a few hundred thousand dollars, they come home to die. I know, I have had three family members who lived under the illusion that if it’s (health care) is private, it must be better. It didn’t work out that way.
May 19th, 2009 at 12:01 pmI had the sickening feeling, it was only a matter of time, so now I sit hear hoarse from screaming, my fingers on ice, hurting from all the typing and strangely not altogether bald from ripping my hair out…..and single-payer is still off the table!!!! I really feel a serious sense of dread….and I don’t really know where to seriously place my anger~I know I am pissed by the for-profit insurance lobby, even more so now because they are charlatans, they smile to you in front of you, but the minute you turn your back on them they will no sooner stab you in the back, or should it be members of Congress like Max Baucus who put so much trust into them as they lied through their teeth in front of him, and because he wouldn’t let all voices be heard at the table in front of him…he got stabbed in the back, by the very same charlatans who bought his soul, or should it be President Obama, is he really that naive to be so quick to beleive that they could be sincere, that he had to have a photo-op at the White House with these charlatans just waiting for the opportunity to stab once again, or the Democratic leadership in Congress who have no intention of passing healthcare reform, not this year, not any year, as the twist the knife out of their backs, while they hold the hand out for the payment from the for-profit charlatans, or the media for allowing it all to happen~CHARLATANS!!!
May 19th, 2009 at 12:02 pmHoodathunktick 44
Hear hear. Also stop driving on the highways, going to libraries, using electricity if you live rurally, get off the internet. ALL those were created with FEDERAL TAX DOLLARS.
May 19th, 2009 at 12:02 pmLeeHope
My wife has been doing the same thing. HR676
May 19th, 2009 at 12:05 pmI’m detecting a pattern…
1) Obama meets with industry group X.
2) Obama announces happy thoughts and progress
3) Industry X waits 1 week
4) Industry X does what it was going to do before meeting with Obama anyways
So either Obama was in on the joke beforehand (I’m really starting to think that), or he needs to stop being so naive to think we live in an environment where the “team of rivals” idea applies.
May 19th, 2009 at 12:05 pmNationalized Healthcare is nothing more than taking from those who can pay for healthcare and giving it to those who can not.
REALLY??? Is that why Christifer Reeves died a pennyless man???? Very rich when he got injured but was broke when he died…..his medical costs drove them to bankruptcy. NO ONE HAS ENOUGH MONEY UNLESS YOUR THE TOP 2% OF MONEY EARNERS IN THE COUNTRY. WHAT IS EVERYONE ELSE SUPPOSED TO DO/???? SIT QUIETLY AND DIE?????
F***EN A-HOLE!!!!!
May 19th, 2009 at 12:07 pmHe better put in an outhouse and well too, Eugenedebs. And eat his trash.
I’d mention school but it is sort of clear where his schooling came from.
May 19th, 2009 at 12:09 pm“We can do a lot better than a government-run health care system.”
Sure we can. Like they the for-profit health care industry did so much better in the last 16 years since they defeated Hillary’s plan. The only “better” they have done is for themselves and their bottom line. For the rest of us, they pretty much did everything to us that they said government run health care would do to us.
May 19th, 2009 at 12:10 pmOne year alone Travelers health Insurance paid their CEO 250 Million dollars. That a quarter of a billion dollars OUT of the healthcare system that didnt set a single bone or give a single shot
May 19th, 2009 at 12:13 pmAll these trolls say the government can’t run anything properly so we shouldn’t trust them. Yet just who seems to be running the government?
In the past few months we have seen Congress sell out on foreclosures and bankruptcy revision to the banking lobby, interest caps on credit cards to the bank and credit card lobbies, struggling with cap and trade because of too many lobbies to list, stymied on labor protection by various business lobbies, lied to and now attacked by health insurance money and so on. And all of this in the face of growing displeasure from the public.
So just who is responsible for a poorly run government?
May 19th, 2009 at 12:16 pmI just got a $20,0000 hospital bill which is the remaining balance owe to hospital after my dads health insurance refused to cover some of his medical procedures which should have been covered by his insurance I even showed them where it stated in their medical coverage where a certain procedure was covered they told me that was no good and a revised copy will soon be issued. My dad died in the hospital.
I wish these “dumb ass” people in Congress would go ahead and pass Obama’s health plan. I’m so afraid to go the hospital now for anything fearing that I might get a bill like this.
May 19th, 2009 at 12:32 pmHow can anyone support a non-portable Sickness & Injury Medical Insurance industry that makes their profit not by PROVIDING care, but by DENYING care?
How can anyone support a non-portable Sickness & Injury Medical Insurance industry that PROFITS from excessive costs in providing care by passing along the continuing increases in cost and then adding an additional 30% on top of each cost increase?
Would it not be better for Americans to invest in a lifetime HEATH CARE plan that provides cost control and covers every American from cradle to grave?
May 19th, 2009 at 12:46 pmLet me ask you this, without all of us greedy money hungry producers, how do you expect to pay for this? Who has to cover the balance of cost for your low cost healthcare? The answer is the Producers. How can you consider a society civilized when it exists by forcing producers to give to non-producers? How does that encourage more people to aspire to be productive? How does a non-profit organization exist without producers propping it up? You can hate producers all you want but the fact is, without us, the people who depend on our money perish. This might not fit your utopian view of the world, but by me being productive and working in my own self interest I provide more jobs than anyone who depends on the government for handouts. At 33, my hard work provides a livelihood for more than 25 employees and their families, how many people does your hard work pay for? It is a fact welfare never created one job other than the government employees who oversee it, producers do. Get out of our way and let producers do what we do best, produce, and our cumulative production will take care of more people than your big brother system ever will. I will say it again so you don’t misinterpret, GOVERNMENT IS NOT THE ANSWER AND IT NEVER WILL BE.
May 19th, 2009 at 12:47 pmTake these representatives and Senators free good health care they have which is payed by you the ‘taxpayer’,then they will be on your side.
May 19th, 2009 at 12:48 pmUntil then,you are on your own.
Prairie Sunshine Says: The Blues are the bullies of healthcare.
misscoleopteramolly Says: BCBS of NC is running scared.
BCBS
ND just had their CEO resign after news of outings in the Caribbean came out after their 15% price increase.
Last week one of their top managers was arrested for having child porn on his PC.
Where is that sacred ‘free market’ with congressional health care?
May 19th, 2009 at 12:51 pm“Opponents of reform would prefer to have a monopoly over health care, because the status quo is still quite profitable.”
You need to replace the word profitable here, with the word “lucrative”.
From the definition of lucre
“When William Tyndale translated aiskhron kerdos, “shameful gain” (Titus 1:11), as filthy lucre in his edition of the Bible, he was tarring the word lucre for the rest of its existence. But we cannot lay the pejorative sense of lucre completely at Tyndale’s door. He was merely a link, albeit a strong one, in a process that had begun long before with respect to the ancestor of our word, the Latin word lucrum, “material gain, profit.” This process was probably controlled by the inevitable conjunction of profit, especially monetary profit, with evils such as greed. In Latin lucrum also meant “avarice,” and in Middle English lucre, besides meaning “monetary gain, profit,” meant “illicit gain.”
If you want to go up against Frank Luntz, you have to utilize his tactics when possible, even here at TP. Make insurance company “profits” out to be evil, and refer to them as parasites and leeches as well. They are unnecessary to the delivery of healthcare and make the providers’ jobs harder in all cases. Single payer means single system, with everybody playing by one fair set of rules.
May 19th, 2009 at 1:02 pm“We can do a lot better than a government-run health care system.”
Funny, coming from a fella whose health-care is supplied by a government-run system.
Mebbe he should quit?
May 19th, 2009 at 1:02 pmold jburr has been watching too many old horror movies. ‘Da Gubmint’ is filled with brain sucking aliens! They be trying to take over the US!
Except it has been around for over 200 years and hasn’t done it yet. Except that because of da gubmint (and all of its employees who just happen to be fellow citizens) has worked hard to provide an environment where hard workers like jburr have the opportunity to build a business.
jburr, how much squealing would you do if some big conglomerate decided to put your business out of business by shady (but legal) practices?
May 19th, 2009 at 1:02 pmAnd for those of you that say that those who disagree should not use anything the Federal Government provides, how did the Federal Government provide it? By taxing our citizens, it is not their money it is ours; I am using what my money paid for. Everything that the government has done, provides or wants to provide depends on the citizens money, at least the 50% of people who actually pay taxes. Everyone else is freeloading, direct your scorn towards them not towards the portion of the population who actually bears the cost of providing your civil services.
May 19th, 2009 at 1:03 pmI’m SHOCKED, I tell you, SHOKED!! (snark)
May 19th, 2009 at 1:13 pm(Sorry about the mispelling of the second SHOCKED. My outrage overwhelmed me.)
May 19th, 2009 at 1:15 pmI will say it again so you don’t misinterpret, GOVERNMENT IS NOT THE ANSWER AND IT NEVER WILL BE.
Government is not the answer???? How much would it of cost you to build that road going to your home????
How much would it cost you to have a private security company look after you 24hrs a day….since government protection (police)is not the answer????
How much would you pay to have firemen stand by waiting for your home to go ablaze???? Since government is not the answer??? Oh your mail….how much would it cost you to use UPS all the time?????? And your kids, how much would it cost you to pay for education from cradle to collage graduation????
DO YOU GET MY POINT????? RISK SPREAD OUT OVER THE MASSES MAKES IT AFFORDABLE TO EVERYONE. YOU ARE EITHER IN THE GAME WITH THIS SOCIETY OR YOUR NOT….THEN GO LIVE IN THE WOODS AND SHUT THE F*** up!!!!
Your argument has no validity. The main point of single payer is to spread the risk around so that it becomes affordable to everyone and no one is denied coverage….can your dillusional mind separate the reasoning??????
May 19th, 2009 at 1:28 pmjburr,
May 19th, 2009 at 1:37 pmStop using what MY money paid for! You alone did not pay in anywhere near enough to put that road you drive on to get to your job. When you pull out of your driveway, after you roll about three feet, you’re no longer on YOUR turf, so HALT!
Watch how quickly your insurance company cancels you when you tell them you’re not going to let the fire department save your property if it catches on fire. While you’re at it, fire all your employees whose education came from public schools, because your money alone didn’t provide that either. If YOUR money alone didn’t pay for it, then stop using it!
The majority spoke in the last election and you’re just going to have to live with that. If you want to opt out of what the majority wants, you’ll have to give up what the majority provides.
NOLIESPLEASE, jburr lives in a vacuum, most of it between his ears. He thinks society means he pays money out when it makes him feel good.
May 19th, 2009 at 1:38 pmThe pay-to-live crowd are loud and righteous but I doubt they ever consider what might happen to them if they suddenly find themselves no longer able to pay.
May 19th, 2009 at 1:44 pmDoesn’t seem very effective to me. If people were happy with what they had we’d not even be having this debate at all.
May 19th, 2009 at 2:32 pmjburr Says
May 19th, 2009 at 11:48 am
__________________________________________________________
I see our resident wingnut has weighed in — with the usual misinformation and straw men being spewed by the rabid right. Let’s zoom in for a closer look:
“If our private healthcare system is so corrupt and inefficient and government run healthcare is so effective, why do the citizens from countries with government run healthcare come to the United States for treatment?”
– This is a myth frequently perpetuated by the right wing, but we have yet to see any statistics on the subject that aren’t just made up. This is because statistics would probably also give the number of Americans who cross the border into Canada to get medical care — a number that would no doubt be embarrassing for them.
“I’ll site two examples of government run health care in the US, Medicare and Medicaid, have they been run effectively? Yes that was a loaded question, so knowing the answer why would you wish to saddle that monstrosity on every citizen?”
– Here again, nothing to back up the suggestion that Medicare and Medicaid AREN’T being run effectively. Just hoping that the term “government run” will bring forth images of “bloated government bureaucracy” and “wasteful Washington spending”. Essentially meaningless buzzwords, but popular with the fearful public. In fact, Medicare DOES run quite effectively when compared to just about any private insurance plan. My husband has Medicare and I have private insurance through my work. My husband pays less for his insurance (contrary to popular belief, Medicare recipients pay for their insurance – a portion of their SS check) than I do, he gets a wider choice of doctors than I do, he doesn’t have to pay co-pays like I do, and his doctors don’t have to fight with his insurance company just to treat him like my doctor has to. And Medicare operates with a lot less overhead because they don’t have an advertising budget, they don’t pay lobbyists, and they’re not out to make obscene profits.
“Nationalized Healthcare is nothing more than taking from those who can pay for healthcare and giving it to those who can not. There is another word for that, theft.”
– Another myth being perpetuated. The public plan being proposed would be paid for by the people who opt for it. It’s not a “free” plan for people to be paid for by taxpayers. Nobody is taking anything from anybody. People who want nothing to do with the public plan are certainly free to keep the plan they have.
“Charity is optional, tyranny is forced. There is a difference.”
– True, but who’s talking about tyranny? Is this just a meaningless scary word dropped in randomly?
“It scares me that most of you are actually satisfied with politicians, Republicans or Democrats, making the decisions on what healthcare you and your family should have.”
– Since when is giving the American people more options “making the decisions”? Americans still retain the choice between their current plan, the public plan, or any other plan that will have them and they can afford.
“Don’t kid yourself, the government does not want competition they want control, just listen to what your representatives are saying.”
– Ah. Here comes the be-afraid-be-very-afraid gambit. Generally the last resort of somebody who’s run out of legitimate argument. Not even backed up with examples of how the government supposedly prefers control over competition.
“I will not pretend that I know all of the answers, but I do know this, the government is not the answer. If you want something you have to work for it, the government will not and should not give it to you. Please understand that, in the history of man, nothing is given for free, including healthcare.”
– Again, an irrelevant point to make when we’re talking about introducing a public health insurance plan that the people who get it would pay for.
Every time I see rants like this, I marvel at how many people there are out there who don’t bother to read or listen. They just knee jerk into the most closely related conservative talking point. Which only serves to make them look foolish.
May 19th, 2009 at 2:39 pmmisscoleopteramolly Says:
It all in a clear and concise manner. Bless you for having the patience. A refreshing breath of reality.
Thank you, miss molly.
May 19th, 2009 at 2:50 pmAnyone see this short clip from moveon.org:
Out of Business
It is now becoming a reality.
May 19th, 2009 at 2:53 pmjburr Says:
And for those of you that say that those who disagree should not use anything the Federal Government provides, how did the Federal Government provide it? By taxing our citizens, it is not their money it is ours; I am using what my money paid for. Everything that the government has done, provides or wants to provide depends on the citizens money, at least the 50% of people who actually pay taxes. Everyone else is freeloading, direct your scorn towards them not towards the portion of the population who actually bears the cost of providing your civil services.
I love how people like you talk about how YOU’RE the only ones contributing to society while everyone is a useless, deadbeat, no-good piece of trash who would serve society better if they just died…Perhaps you should also rail against socialized medicine provided by the VA…or what about the members of Congress who are not good for anything besides sucking up to K Street and the other lobbyists…? Of course, the class warfare that the corporatists have perpetuated upon you is working because they have people who do not belong to the top 1% to shill for them, thus providing the facade of a populist movement.
Lazy, shiftless, these were all terms and frames used by the privileged in society to justify the oppression of the people they made their backs upon, from the days of slavery to now. Times may have changed, but the rhetoric is still the same. You do not know anything about the uninsured, but you assume they sit back on their sofas eating Cheetos and watching movies at home, while not working. How do you know that? Of course, you know, because that’s what the insiders WANT you to believe. They WANT you to believe that these people deserve to DIE uninsured because they do not want to help themselves, when there are a number of folks among them who have lost their jobs, working harder than the bastard bureaucrats who deny health care and make their living sucking the blood out of those who need health care. The health industry does not need to hire propagandist lobbyists to do their dirty work for them, when they have shills like you who have swallowed GOP and Rush talking points. Note, that they CAN afford to have their health care, while perhaps you can not. So while I congratulate you for making your life a success, perhaps you should have more empathy (Oh I forgot, it’s a COMMUNIST word) for those who are not as lucky as you.
May 19th, 2009 at 3:44 pmjburr Says:
Let me ask YOU something. How can YOU be so stupid? Your little snivelfest doesnt fit a SANE view of society. I AM a producer MORON. I have health insurance and I pay NOW for those without insurance. I dont get to pay in the most effective way. I cant pay for the guy who has symptoms I have to wait til he is critical and pay a thousand times as much while he dies. I cant pay for his bloodtest for prostate Cancer at 300 dollars I have to pay for his last six months of life at critical care at 300 THOUSAND dollars. We already get that you dont CARE that 18,000 Americans a year DIE from lack of access to healthcare. If you OWN a business you are NOT a producer you are a parasite. Those WORKERS are producers and you live off the sweat of THEIR labor. You dont provide them jobs from the goodness of your heart you do it so you can get rich WITHOUT WORKING AND PRODUCING. That we allow that is to your advantage. That you want those without healthcare to DIE because you are so selfish you only care about yourself shows you have no sense of decency and worship at the alter of Ebenezer Scrooge. Here is a clue he wasnt supposed to BE a role model you moron. You dont have to do anything for me PARASITE. I have great healthcare. I want to assure that my nieghbor does too. I want to stop 18,000 of my nieghbors a year from DYING on the alter of YOUR selfishness.
May 19th, 2009 at 3:59 pmEugene, I was a history major, but I was always struck at how corporations and slaveowners could always point to the producers whether they be factory workers or slaves and claim THEY were the lazy, shiftless ones. I mean it was ironic that these Southern gents who spent their time fantasizing and recreating medieval chivalry by jumping their horses over bushes and courting Southern belles could have the audacity to claim that if they did not enslave the slaves, the slaves would idle all day and not be productive. I’m struck by the rhetoric on the wingnut right that recreates this flawed picture to justify the parasites who decry about being the victims of class warfare, the class warfare they are forcing upon the people.
May 19th, 2009 at 4:03 pmjburr Says: You are an ignorant selfish piece of garbage. You are a parasite. Blood sucking TICKS are several rungs above you on the evolutionary ladder. EVERYONE pays taxes you worthless moron. Some dont pay fedeeral INCOME tax because they dont make enough money. The preamble to the constitution says they will promote the general wellfare. That is a societal decision exactly what that means and the majority of Americans WANT universal healthcare because the majority of Americans are NOT soulless, selish parasites like YOU are. If you dont LIKE society providing things because it costs YOU money then your snivelling is pathetic hypocrisy. Your business uses roads, an educated workforce, a world class communications system ALL provided by those tax dollars. Providing a healthy workforce would be another good thing but you are just too stupid to see that. So if you are going to whine and snivel about paying taxes so that your fellow citizen doesnt DIE then just go away to that Island take your selfish libertarian friends and let us telivise you re-enacting the Lord of the Flies with your economic Darwinism and your lack of empathy and basic decency. We are trying to have a civilization here and if you dont want to do your fair share get out
May 19th, 2009 at 4:07 pmExactly Kitty. You and I have often wondered the same thing. Jburr has the delusion that HE is producing and that those who WORK are lazy and shiftless and dont contribute to society.
The conspicuously wealthy turn up urging the character building values of the privation of the poor.
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man’s oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.
May 19th, 2009 at 4:17 pmJohn Kenneth Galbraith
jburr says:
I will say it again so you don’t misinterpret, GOVERNMENT IS NOT THE ANSWER AND IT NEVER WILL BE.
I say:
Government is the ONLY answer. These are our elected representatives. WE HAVE NO OTHER VOICE. As individuals or small groups, we can’t change anything.
Regardless of the government’s role in health care, whether that be providing the “insurance” in a single-payer system or just simply being our advocate for real reform of some other type, we need them to be our advocates, not our adversaries.
If we just let things go on the way they have over the past 40 years, we will just end up getting the short end of the stick.
We need grassroots reform, not only by making our voices in Washington heard, but actively voting any Representative or Senator who is in the pocket of lobbyists OUT OF OFFICE until we get what we deserve.
May 19th, 2009 at 4:45 pmHmmm… Health Care for All Americans is Simple!
1) Merge Medicare with Medicaide into one single “Income Based” system for elderly and poor citizens.
2) Require insurance companies to provide the same basic coverage for all Non-Medicare/Medicaide citizens, regardless of health status, at affordable rates.
3) Allow insurance companies to profit by offering additional benefits and options to those who qualify and are willing to pay the difference.
As for Funding…
1) Changing from an “Emergency Treatment” to a “Preventive Care” system will save local communities billions, maybe even trillions of taxpayer dollars!
2) Small business will be able to compete globally and hire additional taxpaying employees!
3) Wealthy seniors will pay their fair share!
4) The tremendous burden on future generations will be greatly reduced!
May 19th, 2009 at 6:53 pmjburr gives us an exquisite example of why Republicans can’t govern. They don’t believe government can work, so they make no attempt to govern effectively. They also feel justified in perverting the resources and tools of government to enrich themselves.
Think about it: why would you elect to govern, someone who believes government can’t work?
May 19th, 2009 at 7:00 pm83, the Republicans are masters at the self-fulfilling prophecy when it comes to government…
May 20th, 2009 at 1:18 am