Scarborough issues a torture challenge: ‘If you have any evidence that it is not effective, let me know right now!’
By on May 19th, 2009 at 9:43 am
Scarborough issues a torture challenge: ‘If you have any evidence that it is not effective, let me know right now!’
This morning on MSNBC’s “Morning Joe,” host Joe Scarborough launched — yet again — into an angry defense of torture. When MSNBC’s Carlos Watson explained that waterboarding is ineffective, Scarborough lashed out at him, nearly kicking him off the set:
SCARBOROUGH: I’ve got to stop you right there. How do you dare come on this set and say that’s [waterboarding] not effective? That’s just not the truth! And if you have any evidence that it is not effective, let me know right now!
Watch it:
ThinkProgress has taken up Scarborough’s challenge, with this comprehensive document explaining why Bush’s enhanced interrogation tactics were a failure.
Update Also this morning, Scaborough slammed former Minnesota Gov. Jesse Ventura, who has been publicly criticizing waterboarding. "Ventura 'should stop smoking whatever he's been smoking,' Scarborough said at the anchor's desk of his Morning Joe show. 'It seriously should be a crime, to be that dumb on TV.'''
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“Ventura ’should stop smoking whatever he’s been smoking,’ Scarborough said at the anchor’s desk of his Morning Joe show.
I’ll say it again, how can someone who’s never served (guessing Scarborough’s not), refute the word of a former Navy SEAL???
May 19th, 2009 at 9:47 amJoe is really losing it now. It doesnt matter if it was effective or not. Its illegal, and the US does not torture.
May 19th, 2009 at 9:48 amLet Ventura “waterboard” Scarborough. Once Scarborough admits he killed the secretary found dead in his office, Venture can stop.
I guess that would “Prove” Scarborough’s claim that TORTURE IS EFFECTIVE!
May 19th, 2009 at 9:50 amLet Ventura “waterboard” Scarborough. Once Scarborough admits he killed the secretary found dead in his office, Venture can stop.
I like this idea VERY MUCH.
May 19th, 2009 at 9:51 amBwaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahaa
Joe is a dead man walkin’!
May 19th, 2009 at 9:51 amJoe Dooshborough is a coward and a traitor. Anyone who espouses or condones torture is un-American. Period.
May 19th, 2009 at 9:53 am‘It seriously should be a crime, to be that dumb on TV.’
And yet, there you are, Joe….
May 19th, 2009 at 9:54 am“How dare you come on my show and tell the truth? We’re all about lying about the effectiveness of torture and that’s the truth. You’ve got to believe me.”
I may have misquoted Joe but it’s close enough to the truth for me and Joe.
Ol’ Joe, the former Congressman, who’s now a second rate newsy who can’t believe that his party has gotten into such a jam. Poor Ol’ Joe.
May 19th, 2009 at 9:54 amLet Ventura “waterboard” Scarborough. Once Scarborough admits he killed the secretary found dead in his office, Venture can stop.
i’d settle for a polygraph myself but okay…..
May 19th, 2009 at 9:54 amIf it is so effective, why did they have to do it a combined 266 times on just two detainees all in one month? Why wasn’t the whereabouts of Osama Bin Laden revealed?
How can you torture people who strap bombs on daily?
How can you torture people who are willing to die for a cause with or without water boarding?
Jesse Ventura says he was water boarded and if they can’t take his word for it, who then are they going to believe? Dick Cheney? who received 5 deferments when it was his time to serve the country he so loved?
May 19th, 2009 at 9:57 amSo… effectiveness outweighs morals? So what if its torture, if it’s effective. O.k., then…. by those standards, why don’t we just open the floodgates? If you start sawing off limbs to get information, a lot of people will satrt telling you a lot of stuff real quick-like.
If you’re gonna start down that path, then keep on going.
And if, as you would claim, waterboarding is NOT torture, then let’s get that used as standard police interrogation. It is effective and not torture? The police will save a lot of lives with it.
May 19th, 2009 at 9:58 amApparently if you lie LOUDLY it somehow makes you right.
The GOP really is dying a very slow and public death, despite the determination of it’s core pundits and water-carriers and their faith in righteous political crimes.
May 19th, 2009 at 9:58 am‘It seriously should be a crime, to be that dumb on TV.’
Joe better be careful making statements like that. His employer might be listening.
Speaking of Ventura, though. He really took that dumb little Lizzie HissyFit apart on “The View” yesterday. It was pretty obvious that he doesn’t suffer fools like her lightly.
May 19th, 2009 at 9:59 amVentura was also on Faux & Fiends this morning. He looked like he was about to come over the table at Brian Kilmeade who was spouting the same crap.
May 19th, 2009 at 9:59 amJoe should just ask MSNBC to release him from his contract. Then he can go over to Foxnoise, he`ll fit right in.
May 19th, 2009 at 10:00 amGive Jesse Ventura a waterboard, Joe Scarborough, and one hour, and he’ll confess to holding up Sarah Palin’s calendar with one hand.
May 19th, 2009 at 10:01 amScarborough said at the anchor’s desk of his Morning Joe show. ‘It seriously should be a crime, to be that dumb on TV.”’
I agree, and today the entire staff of faux news is going to be hauled away. And guess what Joe, you are next.
May 19th, 2009 at 10:01 amSilly Joe, not only isn’t it illegal there are people who are proud of being mortally stupid on the tv box and they get paid for it. Go over to Fox, MSNBC is getting tired of cleaning up your mess.
May 19th, 2009 at 10:08 amScarborough said at the anchor’s desk of his Morning Joe show. ‘It seriously should be a crime, to be that dumb on TV.
May 19th, 2009 at 10:10 amIf it were, the whole cast of MJ would have already been arrested.
a_e @12 says “Apparently if you lie LOUDLY it somehow makes you right.” I would add “and with great CERTITUDE.”
Shellly @10 is right to ask, as so many have, why did it take a combined 280+ times in one month on two people to get the “TRUTH” that the torturers wanted?
May 19th, 2009 at 10:10 amYes, Joe, take personal note of your own words — it should be a crime to be that dumb on TV.
May 19th, 2009 at 10:12 amScarborough can get in line behind Hannity and Cheney, I sure Ventura would happily waterboard them all so that could confirm it isn’t torture (either that or they will admit to all the unsolved murders of the last five years).
May 19th, 2009 at 10:12 amI say we challenge Joe that we can get him to admit that he’s a pinko-commie-liberal after being waterboarded 87 times…
May 19th, 2009 at 10:12 amunbelievable Says:
I say we challenge Joe that we can get him to admit that he’s a pinko-commie-liberal after being waterboarded 87 times..
My guess is Wimpborough would admit to that and more in the first FIVE minutes.
May 19th, 2009 at 10:16 amHannity got served by “The Body” last night, hilarious…I suggest a google search…
May 19th, 2009 at 10:17 amCFP — Not quite. But nice try. …Really….
And why not allow law enforcemtn these “enhanced techniques” that are not torture? If they are effective — the police would be able to save thousands of lives as well. Why aren’t you (and the rest who hold the “enhanced” is not “torture” position) arguing for that? Over the course of the years, the police would save countless lives.
And its not torture, right? So any suspect could be questioned that way… to save lives….
May 19th, 2009 at 10:17 amWhatever happened to Scarborough fair? Joe should watch out–if they had laws like that, he might wind up behind bars!
May 19th, 2009 at 10:17 amIf Joe is really serious about wanting evidence that water boarding isn’t effective all he has to do is to have it done to him. Of course, it won’t be the same because he knows the interrogators won’t kill him.
And don’t worry, Joe, if they goof it your necktie will hide the trach scar.
May 19th, 2009 at 10:18 amConservativeForProgress Says: Using enhanced interrogation techniques such as controlled waterboarding against suspected terrorists in an effort to save thousands of American lives is very bad;
Prove it. Yeah, I asked because I know that you can’t.
May 19th, 2009 at 10:18 amConservativePunk
You are a coward. You want to appologize for torture and Waterboarding IS torture. It was torture during the Spanish inquisitions when THEY used it and when WE sentenced Japanese to PRISON for using it. So give up the punkass weaseling that it isnt torture. You cannot show that torture is necessary to save lives and the GC SPECIFICALLY denied this weasel excuse. By that excuse the Germans would have had a perfect right to torture OUR soldier to save the lives of THEIR people. Man up stop being such a punkass coward and think a bit more about American VALUES than about how scared you are while you snivel under your mommys bed
May 19th, 2009 at 10:19 amJesse wasn’t MN’s greatest governor, but he’s a lot better than the bullying hypocrite Pawlenty we have now.
Jesse has been waterboarded as a part of his SERE training as a Navy Seal. He knows what he’s talking about, which must drive Joe crazy.
May 19th, 2009 at 10:19 amWaterboarding IS torture, no matter what the wingnuts say.
Your comment was a little too simplistic to be useful, C4P, so I clarified it for everyone.
No, no need to thank me. We all expect simple-minded from you.
May 19th, 2009 at 10:22 amProve the negative, go on I dare you (LOL).
The burden of proof is always on the advocates of torture. And I’m not concerned with efficacy — only our values.
May 19th, 2009 at 10:23 amRWeSafer Says:
EXACTLY. Robbing banks is effective. MURDER is effective
May 19th, 2009 at 10:24 amThe DNC must pass a resolution renaming the GOP the TORTURE party.
May 19th, 2009 at 10:25 amInteresting reversal. Now, instead of justifying torture by offering evidence that it IS effective, we now have to prove it ISN’T effective to stop it? Or to hold torture practitioners and enablers accountable?
Following this logic, let’s mandate that everybody has to wear purple! This will stop terrorist attacks! No, we don’t have to prove that it’s effective — YOU must prove that it isn’t! Until then, you better d*mn well be wearing a purple shirt when the fashion police arrive!
May 19th, 2009 at 10:25 amJoe has never served in the Armed Forces of the United States. He did represent the Florida panhandle which is heavily loaded with military bases. He was a HAWK when in congress.
Did you catch the implication that he still has influences and informers in the CIA this morning? Interesting comment.
May 19th, 2009 at 10:26 amIt sure looks like the torture apologists are trying to frame the issue as an effectiveness debate, rather than their (clearly meritless) “it’s not torture”. Of course they trot out the EIT meme, but they know that only “The Chosen” are buying that line anyomre.
They want the debate to be about effectiveness (and they don’t mind it being a debate, as long as the whole “torture” aspect is ignored).
May 19th, 2009 at 10:26 amI would love to see either Hannity or Joe Scareborough to be waterboarded on live tv. The only way to make the “enhanced interrogation” stop, would be to say the exact words “Waterboarding is torture, it’s illegal, and all involved should be prosecuted“.
May 19th, 2009 at 10:27 amHis saying those words would prove either:
a) That torture techniques such as waterboarding can be used to make anyone say exactly what the interrogator wants, even if the interrogated believes it to be false. OR
b) Waterboarding really is torture,is illegal, and all involved should be prosecuted.
Dude, I’d love to see Jesse Ventura give stupid @ss Joe whatshisname a belly to belly suplex off the top ring rope, then finish him off with a pile driver or a figure four!
May 19th, 2009 at 10:27 amI think that many of the trolls that appear on this site are in fact Jesse Waters of Bill-O fame…
May 19th, 2009 at 10:27 amAh, is that what was going on this morning? I flipped over for a split second, saw Mika’s prissy, schoolmarm profile and Joe’s angry face and escaped as fast as I could.
“Now, now”, Mike says, as though she’s chiding a child – is that why she’s there? To rap Joe’s knuckles when he misbehaves?
May 19th, 2009 at 10:27 amonly scared little pansies support waterboarding
hence CFPs overwhelming support for it
May 19th, 2009 at 10:28 amConservativeForProgress
you won’t understand this issue for another 10 years, when someone in authority will tell you it’s alright to be against torture.
did you abandon the country’s ideals & values immediately after 9/11? or did you wait until we started invading countries that did absolutely nothing to us?
whatever the case may be, you are a coward and unfit for conversation amongst adults. go play in the sand.
May 19th, 2009 at 10:30 amRalph — nice rewrite. I will leave you 1/8 acre of cornfield this fall for your efforts.
May 19th, 2009 at 10:31 am“Ventura ’should stop smoking whatever he’s been smoking,’ Scarborough said at the anchor’s desk of his Morning Joe show. ‘It seriously should be a crime, to be that dumb on TV.”’
_____________________________________________________________
By saying this, Scarborough admits he’s been pwned by Ventura. Just like the trolls here, when on-topic rebuttal is impossible, he resorts to flinging vague insults.
May 19th, 2009 at 10:34 amWeren’t these guys recently claiming that they never used torture? Then that morphed into what is and isn’t torture (their interpretation, regardless of universal standards).
May 19th, 2009 at 10:36 amNow they readily not only admit torture, but that it was necessary.
I don’t recall that any circumstance in WWI, WWII, Korea, VietNam, Gulf War allowed torture of the enemy. Somehow, the chickenhawks in Bush&Co rationalize that they can ignore international laws because this is “different” or more urgent, or whatever they deem makes it so.
Also this morning, Scaborough slammed former Minnesota Gov. Jesse Ventura, who has been publicly criticizing waterboarding. “Ventura ’should stop smoking whatever he’s been smoking,’ Scarborough said at the anchor’s desk of his Morning Joe show. ‘It seriously should be a crime, to be that dumb on TV.”’
I didn’t have to see the program to know that Jesse was not in the studio this morning.
May 19th, 2009 at 10:39 amMy goodness, I wish Joe’s show would get cancelled! He’s such a rightwingnut tool.
May 19th, 2009 at 10:41 amJoe and the rest of the wingnuts are such dunces that they completely miss the point. Torture is illegal. It doesn’t matter if it’s effective or not!
May 19th, 2009 at 10:43 amConservativeForProgress Says:
Using enhanced interrogation techniques such as controlled waterboarding against suspected terrorists in an effort to save thousands of American lives is very bad; but to waterboard anyone who exercises their First Amendment rights to dare to disagree with the typical liberal position on controlled waterboarding is very good.
May 19th, 2009 at 10:06 am
__________
Yes. I’m just going to agree with you, cause there’s no point in trying to correct your idiocy. I fully believe that we should waterboard anyone who exercises their First Amendment rights to dare to disagree with the typical liberal position on controlled waterboarding.
May 19th, 2009 at 10:43 am“in an effort to save thousands of American lives is very bad”
when dick cheney wanted to waterboard iraqi POW’s to try and get info on alleged links between alqueda and iraq that the guying heading up thier WMD search though was totally absurd, which “imminent threat to thousands of american lives” was he tryign to stop there?
May 19th, 2009 at 10:43 amJoe Scarborough calls for his job to be criminalized. God I hope Republicans never figure out what irony is.
May 19th, 2009 at 10:44 amI loved Bob Shrum take down of Joe Scarborough and Rudy Giuliani this morning.
When Bob was done destroying them Scarborough had to go back to saluting the troops for keeping America safe and Bob Shrum interrupted him by saying “And Water Boarding Had Nothing to Do with It”
He grilled Giuliani basically flipping the prosecutor hat and repeatedly kept asking Giuliani if the CIA ever lied and Giuliani kept saying that “General” argument doesn’t work. (What does General Argument Mean?) But Bob wouldn’t let it go and kept asking Giuliani have they ever lied and Giuliani said, well there have been instances where they have made mistakes. Bob told him he was just using sounds bits like he did in the election and we know how far that got you
And then Scarborough got in on the act, he continued the Nancy Pelosi pile on and Bob Shrum hit right back, “This is this same kind of stuff you thought during the campaign when you thought Obama with his bitter comments was destroying himself.” Scarborough appeared to be caught off by the accurate statement of one more of his failed predictions.
May 19th, 2009 at 10:45 amif joe is claiming to KNOW something about classified documents isn’t he claiming to have broken the law?
May 19th, 2009 at 10:47 amNo one is trying to interfere with your 1st Amendment right to blather about something you have never experienced, and cannot possibly comprehend. If you want to continue to embarrass yourself by doing so, that is your problem. On the other hand, if you want to subject yourself to be waterboarded 183 times, I’m sure everyone at TP will respect your opinion on the subject.
May 19th, 2009 at 10:48 amZimzone Says:
Jesse has been waterboarded as a part of his SERE training as a Navy Seal. He knows what he’s talking about, which must drive Joe crazy.
During the first few years of our little adventure in regime change in Iraq they couldn’t get enough military types onto tv to tell us, how great it was going and how necessary it all was. We were supposed to buy whatever the military person said as irrefutable.
Now, with people like Jesse (ex-Navy Seal) and Wilkerson (ret. Army Col.), ex-FBI types, ex-State Dept. types, coming out against waterboarding they’re all atwitter. “How can you say that?” they demand incredulously, “But it works!” they claim, “If it saves just one American life then it’s worth it!” they insist.
May 19th, 2009 at 10:49 amScarborough’s gone insane. How about FBI interrogator Ali Soufan’s testimony LAST WEEK? Does Scarborough watch the goddam news?
May 19th, 2009 at 10:49 ammisscoleopteramolly Says:
Until then, you better d*mn well be wearing a purple shirt when the fashion police arrive!
Personally, I’d rather be waterboarded than caught wearing purple :)~
May 19th, 2009 at 10:50 amP.S.: Ventura did a pretty good job of body-slamming Hannity last night.
May 19th, 2009 at 10:50 amI’m pretty sure that lying is in the CIA mission statement.
May 19th, 2009 at 10:53 amIf waterboarding is not torture why doesn’t Joe or Hannity or any of them have on some ex SERE military people to say it’s not torture? Wouldn’t that be the easiest way to “prove” it’s not torture? Because anyone who has been waterboarded says it is torture.
May 19th, 2009 at 10:54 amConservativeForProgress Says:
To summarize the above typical liberal positions expressed on TP:
Using enhanced interrogation techniques such as controlled waterboarding against suspected terrorists in an effort to save thousands of American lives is very bad; but to waterboard anyone who exercises their First Amendment rights to dare to disagree with the typical liberal position on controlled waterboarding is very good.
WRONG. I believe people are pointing out the massive hypocrisy of torture supporters (like yourself) who should know full well that they would NEVER EVER want to be waterboarded and could not claim with a straight face that it ISN’T torture if they have been exposed to it.
Nice try painting a “typical” scenario that hits all the wrong points.
The First Amendment fall back is very cute as well. Dumfuk.
May 19th, 2009 at 10:54 amWant “proof”?
If “waterboarding” works, how come we still don’t know where bin Laden is? How come they didn’t waterboard Saddam to tell us “what he did with the WMD’s”? (they didn’t bother because they already knew they didn’t exist.)
May 19th, 2009 at 10:55 amjonwisby Says:
if joe is claiming to KNOW something about classified documents isn’t he claiming to have broken the law?
My feelings exactly
Shouldn’t congress be asking Joe Scarborough to come up to the Hill and testify under
oath
Shouldn’t the Justice request to speak to Joe Scarborough?
Call his bluff if he knows so much provide proof instead of rhetoric.
If Joe Scarborough Loves the CIA so much you would think he would want to help clear their name. I mean this man tells everyone else business why not this?
May 19th, 2009 at 10:56 amHannity is a mental and ethically challenged pimp. Jesse Ventura would squeeze this pencil necked geek and pop him like a pimple.
May 19th, 2009 at 10:57 amMugsy Says:
How come they didn’t waterboard Saddam to tell us “what he did with the WMD’s”? (they didn’t bother because they already knew they didn’t exist.)
____________
Not only did they NOT waterboard Saddam, they made sure he swung before he got a chance to tell everyone what he DID KNOW about his prior dealings w/ the US… ya know, back when we were BBFs w/ him.
May 19th, 2009 at 10:59 amConservativeForProgress is completely full of it.
The whining about “people just excercising their First Amendment right!” is SOOOOOOO freaking lame it is almost beyond the pale.
Hey CFP, instead of making specious claims of the “typical” position of those of us on TP, and using the Bill of Rights as some stupid shield for your argument (insinuating, after-all, that the “typical” TP’er is anti-First Amendment you lil’ sh!thead), why don’t you explain how you have formed your opinion about waterboarding and torture.
Who do you believe?
An ex-Navy SEAL or a dumass ex-Congressman?
You are a freaking joke man.
May 19th, 2009 at 11:00 amDon’t you remember? Saddam Hussein had a fleet of unmanned aerial vehicles which he was going to fly across the Atlantic Ocean to drop aluminum tubes filled with yellow cake on trailer parks throughout the US.
May 19th, 2009 at 11:01 amHere’s one to make the wingers’ heads explode:
if the CIA never lies, then given DCI Michael hatden’s testimony to Congress, Valerie Plame was a covert agent.
So you wingnuts can have Nancy Pelosi if you really want to try to build a mountain out of that particular molehill, but then you have to quit with all your stupid “desk jockey” crap when it comes to BushCo leaking the name of a covert operative.
May 19th, 2009 at 11:01 amshoeless Says:
On the other hand, if you want to subject yourself to be waterboarded 183 times, I’m sure everyone at TP will respect your opinion on the subject.
_____________
And gladly assist you in any way we can.
Just ask. Please…
May 19th, 2009 at 11:03 amTweedster, apparently at the Troll Academy they teach them that the First Amendment guarantees Freedom to be Spectacularly Wrong Without Receiving Any Criticism Whatsoever.
May 19th, 2009 at 11:03 amBtw, thank you TP for your ‘comprehensive document’!
We can use all the help we can get countering the disinformation.
May 19th, 2009 at 11:05 amRUCeriousMaggot! Says:
Hannity is a mental and ethically challenged pimp.
___________
That’s harsh… and kinda mean-spirited…
Sean Hannity is actually a very pretty man… who constantly appears to be wearing more make up than almost all of the women he has on his show. Perhaps THAT is why he hasn’t been waterboarded yet, ya know, for charity, like he bragged on he’d do… because it’d make his mascara run.
Heeee feeeeeeels pretty… oh so pretty…
May 19th, 2009 at 11:08 amWow Joe – project much?
May 19th, 2009 at 11:09 amralph the wonder locust Says:
Tweedster, apparently at the Troll Academy they teach them that the First Amendment guarantees Freedom to be Spectacularly Wrong Without Receiving Any Criticism Whatsoever.
__________
That’s pretty much the way Sarah Palin put it on the campaign trail last fall, ralphie… anyone who had THE NERVE to criticize her positions was basically trampling on her First Amendment Rights™…
May 19th, 2009 at 11:09 amralph the wonder locust Says:
Tweedster Says:
ConservativeForProgress is completely full of it.
The whining about “people just excercising their First Amendment right!” is SOOOOOOO freaking lame it is almost beyond the pale.
Tweedster, apparently at the Troll Academy they teach them that the First Amendment guarantees Freedom to be Spectacularly Wrong Without Receiving Any Criticism Whatsoever.
CFP is on my radar today. I HATE it when people pull up the Bill of Rights when it doesn’t have any contextual basis. The way he throws it in the argument is a coward’s insult by inferring the “typical” TPer is anti free speech.
CFP, you are a punk.
May 19th, 2009 at 11:14 amCFP, what happened buddy? Cut-and-run lil wimp…
May 19th, 2009 at 11:19 am“Ventura ’should stop smoking whatever he’s been smoking,’ Scarborough said at the anchor’s desk of his Morning Joe show. ‘It seriously should be a crime, to be that dumb on TV.”’
Do you think Joe has the balls to say this to Jesse’s face? I don’t.
May 19th, 2009 at 11:20 amHe is busy being waterboarded 183 times, so he can exercise his 1st amendment rights by coming back to tell us that waterboarding isn’t torture.
May 19th, 2009 at 11:21 amYou know what’s really funny?
C4P accuses us of attacking someone “who exercises their First Amendment rights” in the same thread that reports Scrarborough saying, “It seriously should be a crime, to be that dumb on TV.’”
C4P, like most conservatives, appears to be suffering from an irony deficiency.
May 19th, 2009 at 11:21 amGod, I hope Jesse is waiting for him in the parking lot when he leaves the studio today.
May 19th, 2009 at 11:23 amScarborough is a liar, fraud and lowlife scum.
May 19th, 2009 at 11:23 amFor those of you who don’t know his history; google “Lori Klausutis”
He got a free pass on that one.
Notice how it is mostly chickenhawk cowards who never served their country who are the most gung ho about torture? Joe Scarborough, Dick Cheney, Bill O’Reilly, Rush Limbaugh, Pat Buchanan, Sean Hannity, Mitch McConnell, Newt Gingrich, Mitt Romney, Sarah Palin, John Boehner, Tom Delay, Dick Armey, etc. are all chickenhawk cowards. They all claim to support “protecting America” with torture, yet when it came time for them to SERVE, they all avoided the military. Many even avoided the Vietnam era draft.
May 19th, 2009 at 11:25 amshoeless Says:
He is busy being waterboarded 183 times, so he can exercise his 1st amendment rights by coming back to tell us that waterboarding isn’t torture.
I do love the bravado and nonchalance of the pro-torture crowd when it comes to advocating things they have never, and would never want to, experience. Such ignorant cowards.
May 19th, 2009 at 11:26 amSo Joe: Did we waterboard afterall? I thought the president said we don’t torture.
How can a cowardly republican chickenhawk like Cheney and Scarborough know more about torture and waterboarding than those who have acutally lived the process?
Scarborough is overdue for cancellation. I quit watching him months ago. He is a hardheaded republican living in the past.
May 19th, 2009 at 11:30 amConservativeForProgress Says: To summarize the above typical liberal positions expressed on TP:
Just a bit of unsolicited advice, CFP – do not apply for a job as a Cliff Notes writer. Your “summarizing” skills suck.
May 19th, 2009 at 11:30 am.
Dear Joe Scarborough,
Water boarding is very effective…
… At obtaining false confessions.
.
May 19th, 2009 at 11:34 amCOProgressive Says:
————————————————————–
Let Ventura “waterboard” Scarborough. Once Scarborough admits he killed the secretary found dead in his office, Venture can stop.
I guess that would “Prove” Scarborough’s claim that TORTURE IS EFFECTIVE!—————————————————-
I say let Ventura waterboard Scarborough. Once Joe “card carrying republican” Scarborough admits he is a Democrat and voted for Barack Obama that will prove TORTURE IS INEFFECTIVE!!
May 19th, 2009 at 11:35 amI haven’t read about any other members of the House Intelligence Committee’s dealings with being informed by the CIA on torture techniques. We have all heard at length from the Repubs about what they claim Pelosi knew and when she knew it. However their were seven other members of the House Intelligence Committee that would have received the same intel. Progressives have their suspicions as to the actions of the other Dems on the committee (Reid, Rockefeller and Harman) and their glairing silence on this issue. As to the Repubs involved Porter Goss, who was the Committee Chairman was later made Head of the CIA in Bush’s second term, Dennis Hastert (Speaker of the House at the time-kool aid drinker), Bill Frist (torture defender-kool aid drinker), Pete Hoekstra (kool-aid drinker), Pat Roberts (former Chairman of the Senate Intel Committee) was outspoken about investigating Bush’s pre-war intel and other abuses of the law. He was also against the Detainee Treatment Act of 2005 and was responsible for a large part of the committees investigation into the intelligence failures prior to the 2003 invasion of Iraq. Then he clammed up. THIS man needs to be asked up to the Hill for a little Q and A. He seems to have whatever Repubs have that is close to a conscience and has been flying well under the radar since his retirement. Have any of the Repubs from the committee been asked if they were fully briefed on the fact that the CIA was engaging in waterboarding? If they deny being informed then Ms. Pelosi’s story gains quite a bit of credibility. If they admit that they were fully briefed, then where is the Repub outcry over their inaction? Seems like a pretty simple route to take to get some answers.
May 19th, 2009 at 11:35 am.
Waterboarding to obtain confessions, false or otherwise…
… IS ILLEGAL!
Besides,
this doesn’t change the next discussion Joe refuses to engage in…
… The legality of memos that said the president CAN order a child’s testicles to be crushed to obtain confessions, false or otherwise.
… The legality of memos that say the president can order a child placed into a box with stinging insects to obtain confessions, false or otherwise.
… The legality of memos that say the president can order the sodomizing of a child to obtain confessions, false or otherwise.
And of course, Joe refuses to even entertain the bigger question:
Can the president or his vice president, order a suspect to be TORTURED so as to coerce a confession to a situation that does not exist?
You know, CONSPIRACY TO COERCE FALSE CONFESSIONS. Like what the North Vietnamese did to John McCain.
.
May 19th, 2009 at 11:41 amOMG. Can’t someone make a “Morning Joe” t-shirt from this? Please, oh, please?
May 19th, 2009 at 11:48 amMax Anax junius -1 Says:
You know, CONSPIRACY TO COERCE FALSE CONFESSIONS. Like what the North Vietnamese did to John McCain.
Joe can’t address that because he is fundamentally a coward. Much like ConservativeforProgress.
May 19th, 2009 at 11:49 amNo, that is totally different. John McCain isn’t a brown person.
May 19th, 2009 at 11:53 amJoe Marlboro used to seem reasonable. I see that’s changed.
May 19th, 2009 at 11:55 amsscncturn64 – Yes, the US did torture and until those involved in the torture program, ALL of those involved, are prosecuted it is safe to assume we still do!
ConservativeForProgress – The First Amendment to the United States Constitution is the part of the United States Bill of Rights that expressly prohibits the United States Congress from making laws “respecting an establishment of religion” or that prohibit the free exercise of religion, infringe the freedom of speech, infringe the freedom of the press, limit the right to peaceably assemble, or limit the right to petition the government for a redress of grievances. It does not protect one’s “rights to dare to disagree with the typical liberal” (or conservative for that matter). The Point they are making is to Walk the Walk when you Talk the Talk…
May 19th, 2009 at 11:57 amtrevinla, that was well said, but you used too many words. C4P reads below his grade level — far below, judging by his contributions here — and he gets a headache if he has to wrestle with that many words at a time.
May 19th, 2009 at 12:02 pmJoe is an attorney and should know the burden of proof is on him to prove that torture is effective.
The CIA doesn’t lie?
It’s simple. Ask a CIA agent if he works for the CIA. He will say no.
May 19th, 2009 at 12:11 pm‘It seriously should be a crime, to be that dumb on TV.’
Be careful what you wish for Joe. You could end up in jail.
May 19th, 2009 at 12:13 pmScarborough is a punk racist just like Hannity in which both are morons. Ventura, a Navy Seal who knows first hand about torture and Scarborough has the gull to call him “dumb?” Ventura should demand an apology from that “wiesel.”
May 19th, 2009 at 12:13 pmArt Says:
‘It seriously should be a crime, to be that dumb on TV.’
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
If being stupid on TV were a crime. Glenn Beck would already be doing LIFE.
May 19th, 2009 at 12:17 pmtrevinla Says:
______________
In other words, the right to be heard doesn’t necessarily include the right to be taken seriously.
May 19th, 2009 at 12:19 pmI agree Joe, It should be a serious crime for you to be that DUMB on TV!!!!
May 19th, 2009 at 12:22 pmAlright Mr. Scarborough, how do we get at the truth at what happened to that woman found dead in your office?
What is the most effective method of interrogating you?
I hear you recommend waterboarding…
May 19th, 2009 at 12:24 pmRe: the whole argument about the efficiency of waterboarding to get “the truth”.
Let’s not look at waterboarding as torture for the moment–let’s look at its efficiency. While Joe and Carlos may argue about its efficiency at drawing out “the truth”, let’s not forget that this is a case-by-case basis. In order for it to have any value as being efficient, it must be 100% effective to even be considered useful. Any small percentage of doubt throws its usage as a dependable means to extract information out the window.
And that’s the losing situation that Joe and the other pro-waterboarding people are in: anything less that 100% brings the practice into suspect. Carlos has the upper hand on this argument, and Joe’s too pig-headed to understand the corner he’s dug himself.
If there is any doubt about the information waterboarding draws out, then it makes the next attempt to use it questionable.
It would have been hilarious if Joe asked for Carlos’s mike to be cut off.
May 19th, 2009 at 12:27 pmScarborough said at the anchor’s desk of his Morning Joe show. ‘It seriously should be a crime, to be that dumb on TV.”’
Stay tuned for Joe’s new show: The Morning Perp Walk.
May 19th, 2009 at 12:38 pmConservativeForProgress Says:
May 19th, 2009 at 12:36 pm
I’d tell you the problem with your statement above, but you’re not interested in learning, so I won’t bother. Instead, I’ll just call you stupid.
STUPID!
May 19th, 2009 at 12:40 pmI encourage everyone that’s posted a comment to cut and past the article on, “Why Bush’s ‘Enhanced Interrogation’ Program FailedDownload a pdf of this…” and email it to Joe.
Here:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28544273/
It won’t help him to understand but if enough of us do it it could just possibly cause him to explode in a rage and disappear permanently!
May 19th, 2009 at 12:43 pmPurple State Says: let’s look at its efficiency.
Let’s not because it isn’t the issue. To even consider that efficiency has any bearing on whether an illegal act should be allowed is like saying rape is an efficient way to deflower a virgin.
May 19th, 2009 at 12:44 pmConservativeForProgress Says: a bunch of nonsense.
Its post makes as much sense as this, using his post as a template:
If forced sex is “rape” under the law, then shouldn’t every husband be arrested?
May 19th, 2009 at 12:45 pmConservativeForProgress Says:
——————————————————————————–
If controlled waterboarding is “torture” under the law, then shouldn’t every SERE trainer be arrested? Were all of the Navy Seals permanently injured?
==========================================================
This is a strawman argument made by cowards, Elisabeth Hasselbeck, and Ann Coulter types. Waterboarding has been illegal since the Spanish Inquisition. We prosecuted Japanese soldiers for waterboarding our troops. SERE training is specialized training to familiarize those who are not cowardly chickenhawks with what to expect if captured. The idea that cowards who know nothing about interrogation or the military are arguing that they know more than experienced veterans is not laughable, it is criminal. Waterboarding is against the law. There is no question of if it works. It is against the law and that is all we need to know.
May 19th, 2009 at 12:47 pmConservativeForProgress Says: If controlled waterboarding is “torture” under the law, then shouldn’t every SERE trainer be arrested?
One last time. If the procedure had been performed on US military personnel against their wishes and in order to extract information, the answer would be yes.
Since it wasn’t and this is a pitifully transparent talking point I only have one thing to say…
Bonehead.
May 19th, 2009 at 12:48 pmConservativeForProgress Says:
Using enhanced interrogation techniques such as controlled waterboarding against suspected terrorists in an effort to save thousands of American lives is very bad; but to waterboard anyone who exercises their First Amendment rights to dare to disagree with the typical liberal position on controlled waterboarding is very good.
=======
CFP, your lying when you say that “water-boarding” is controlled.
Can you show proof or have evidence that “water-boarding” saved an American lives and made the US safe?
If you were stop by your local police and they “water-boarded” you for a past traffic ticket you didn’t pay, would that be ok with you?
May 19th, 2009 at 12:49 pmI see you are back from your first waterboarding. How did it go? Are you looking forward to your next 182 waterboardings needed to decide whether it is torture?
May 19th, 2009 at 12:54 pmThe whole point of the exercise in SERE, CFP, is to train the recruit for a TORTURE scenario.
The recruit has to agree to it and sign a paper not holding the Navy responsible for injury or death.
May 19th, 2009 at 12:58 pmOr send Joe stuff here:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28437928/
Rather convenient of him to have 2 places to touch base with him! ;)
May 19th, 2009 at 1:02 pmConservativeForProgress Says:
If controlled waterboarding is “torture” under the law, then shouldn’t every SERE trainer be arrested? Were all of the Navy Seals permanently injured?
_____________
This comment is is idiotic it’s painful to read…
Ouch… ouch… ouchie ouch ouch… make it stop… it HURTS!!!
May 19th, 2009 at 1:02 pmAlot of what goes on in military training could be considered assault in the real world.
There is a huge distinction between friendly and hostile.
I just hope for your sake, CFP, that you’re playing dumb.
May 19th, 2009 at 1:03 pmI heard today. It was Porter Goss who was on the committee before he was named CIA Director by Bush. And he started bashing Jane Harman who was a more vocal critic and then moved to Pelosi. TalkLeft
May 19th, 2009 at 1:03 pmThat’s why this particular brand of troll torture works, TRoHS. It’s the pain of Teh Stupid that eventually breaks you down. You’ve got to man up, grit your teeth and if you feel yourself at the breaking point, give them the names of the Green Bay Packers offensive line, and tell them it’s the Steelers.
May 19th, 2009 at 1:08 pmKeep bringing up SERE, CFP.
It is SERE’s position that waterboarding(even controlled, sicko) is TORTURE.
Thank you.
May 19th, 2009 at 1:09 pmPersonally after hearing what has happened to people who were put through SERE training I think it needs to be altered or discontinued. Frankly I don’t see how getting beaten senseless will help you when you get beaten senseless the next time.
May 19th, 2009 at 1:12 pmMorning Joe should become Mika In The Morning.
May 19th, 2009 at 1:12 pmYeah Doodlebug Shayne, I’ve heard that. Goss has been a major watercarrier for Bushco and gee, I wonder just what qualified him for the PROMOTION to head the CIA. This man will never tell the truth on this subject, he’s a “loyal Bushie”. I am however very interested to hear what Pat Roberts would have to say…UNDER OATH. This man was the Chairman of the Senate Intel Committee, kind of the top of the foodchain on the Hill. He would have the most intimate knowlege of what went on. Has anyone spoken to him about this subject?
May 19th, 2009 at 1:13 pmConservativeForProgress Says:
If controlled waterboarding is “torture” under the law, then shouldn’t every SERE trainer be arrested? Were all of the Navy Seals permanently injured?
CFP, you are an obtuse fool. Do you know what SERE even stands for? Do you know the purpose of the program? God, you are a pathetic coward.
May 19th, 2009 at 1:14 pmFrankly she’s gotten just as stupid as Joe in the last year or so. It should be David Shuster in the morning and let Mika learn something from him.
May 19th, 2009 at 1:14 pmI was watching this and I was very disappointed by Carlos in this segment. It seemed as if he was going to take Joe straight on, but after Joe’s tirade, it seemed as if he adopted an “oh s-it, I might not be back” posture and began become consilatory on the topic in a way that I doubt O’Donnell would have. (as demonstrated by Bob Shrum right after)
The funny thing to me is that Jon Meacham was on just before here and that he would seem to have the refuting evidence, since much of it was quoted in his magazine.
I enjoy the guest that Joe brings on, but it is in acts like this where I question the validity of the show… just as much as I question his “contacts’ in the C.I.A.
May 19th, 2009 at 1:15 pmThe Republic of Hymenoptera Stupidity Says:
ConservativeForProgress Says:
If controlled waterboarding is “torture” under the law, then shouldn’t every SERE trainer be arrested? Were all of the Navy Seals permanently injured?
_____________
This comment is is idiotic it’s painful to read…
Ouch… ouch… ouchie ouch ouch… make it stop… it HURTS!!!
May 19th, 2009 at 1:02 pm
Would it be different if it were “controlled idiocy?” ;)
May 19th, 2009 at 1:15 pmA Patriotic Anopheles Acting, I heard this morning that Porter Goss didn’t want to get involved. Which is interesting since he started the whole smear against Pelosi and Harman.
May 19th, 2009 at 1:15 pmDoodlebug Shayne Says:
It should be David Shuster in the morning and let Mika learn something from him.
May 19th, 2009 at 1:14 pm
I second that!
May 19th, 2009 at 1:15 pmPurple State Says:
Re: the whole argument about the efficiency of waterboarding to get “the truth”.
Let’s not look at waterboarding as torture for the moment–let’s look at its efficiency.
This is a debate for you? Torture is notoriously ineffective at soliciting reliable information, which is precisely why it has been utilized by regimes eager to extoll false confession from its victims. Ask John McCain.
May 19th, 2009 at 1:16 pmBetter idea: Let’s waterboard (what has he been) Smokin’ Joe and see how long it takes before he confesses to the Lindberg kidnapping and the kidnapping of Natalie Holloway.
May 19th, 2009 at 1:16 pmI bet I know what Cheney was feeding into that shredder backed up to his house, all that false testimony gleaned from torturing detainees. The only thing left must be two documents that were no doubt trumped up to make his case. Of course the tapes were destroyed so they could say anything.
May 19th, 2009 at 1:26 pmJesse Ventura has been promoting his book, “Don’t Start the Revolution Without Me.” There’s a chance he might still show up on Scarborough’s set. Yay.
May 19th, 2009 at 1:28 pmHere’s Jesse Ventura schooling Elizabeth Hasselbeck.
Not that it’s all that hard to school Elizabeth Hasselbeck… ;)
May 19th, 2009 at 1:35 pmBetcha none of her teachers ever said that.
May 19th, 2009 at 1:45 pmA question for CFP and his buddies…who do you think has more knowledge of waterboarding? Former SEAL Jesse or 5 deferment Dick?
Talk loudly because that poofy duvet on your bed muffles your voice.
May 19th, 2009 at 2:09 pmAw c’mon ArchieForProgress, aren’t you going to stick around and debate?
May 19th, 2009 at 2:26 pmOr is your little feeble mind not up to the task?
Because, if you’re gonna post in favor of torture, I say let’s dance, monkey breath!!!
ODE TO THE DOODLEHEART/EUGENEDEBS/PURPLEPATH MINDSET. Yes, waterboarding our enemy really hurts me much more than the enemy knows. Getting information like that from people makes me feel so horrible about myself. It’s just so painful to think that those waterboardies are gonna hate us even more after the sessions. At least our American soldiers when captured are spared the interogation and are just straight away tortured and killed. I feel so horrible that those Iraqi Insurgents and everybody is going to think less of me. They “LIVE” through something like that, why couldn’t we just kill them and put them out of their misery like they did for our boys. Boo Hoo Hoo Hoo!
May 19th, 2009 at 3:01 pmVentura kicked Hannity’s ass last night. Ventura Rocks!!! Hannity couldn’t take it Ventura’s beating.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/05/19/jesse-ventura-gets-in-the_n_205146.html
May 19th, 2009 at 3:05 pmZooey, your correct it’s hard to school an ignoramus such as Elizabeth Hasselbeck. Rosie was to strong for “whiny” Hasselbeck.
May 19th, 2009 at 3:07 pmHey Scarborough I got an offer for ya. Let’ give Jesse Ventura a “Water-board” and one hour with you. My guess is he’ll get the truth regarding who killed Lori Klausutis, that young woman found in your Florida office. What say you Joe Scarborough??
May 19th, 2009 at 3:25 pmSheepdog, that post made no sense.
America is a civilized country and a nation of laws. We hold ourselves to a higher standard than rogue nations and extremist terrorist groups. It is not our policy to act out of revenge–an eye for an eye–let’s behead KSM because Daniel Pearl was beheaded. This is why, Sheepdog, the US can claim a higher moral ground and lecture other nations as to how to defend themselves. Your revenge fantasies if enacted, would make you feel better and more manly, but they would reduce the US to an outlaw, rogue status. Thank God you are irrelevant and have no power.
May 19th, 2009 at 3:35 pmMuch like his likeminded idiot Elizabeth Hasslebeck, facts don’t matter a wit to these imbeciles. Ventura took her apart using facts and she rambled on like a babbling idiot bobble head. Now Scarborough steps into the fray, proving once again, there is not a single brain cell between the entire so-called braintrust of the Republican party. If you want to be in a party of anti-intellectual, racist, homophobic, zenophobic,amoral, greedy, selfish, and downright morosely stupid people, then join or remain a Republican. Even Peggy Noonan with all of her lofty words can’t get past the idiot test. It is sad to watch the party Lincoln, Eisenhower, and Goldwater descend into the party of Palin, Gingrich, Joe Barton, Dick Cheney, George Bush, Hassleback, Scarborough, Boehner, Joe the Plumber, Pat Robertson, James Dobson, Tony Perkins, should I go on. You get the point. Will somebody please shoot this old dog and put it out of its misery, metaphorically speaking of course. This carcass needs to be dragged out the back door and buried. Its DEAD!!!
May 19th, 2009 at 3:42 pmAmen, madprogressive.
The GOP is one big wad of petty emotion.
May 19th, 2009 at 3:47 pmHey Sheepcur, how does it feel to be a coward? If you don’t care about our reputation as being a noble country with brave citizens who are willing to fight for our freedom then perhaps you should move somewhere you’ll feel safe, like North Korea.
May 19th, 2009 at 3:47 pmConservativeForProgress Says:
If controlled waterboarding is “torture” under the law, then shouldn’t every SERE trainer be arrested? Were all of the Navy Seals permanently injured?
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Oh my GOD please tell me you are not this stupid. If I send electric shocks to your genitals, provided they could be located with a magnifying glass and hooked up with tweezers, there would be no permanent damage are you going to claim
May 19th, 2009 at 4:23 pmTHAT isnt torture. The SERE thing is very different since they KNOW its an excersice and they wont be killed. Those being interrogated have no such knowledge. Stop being a torture appologist because you are a coward who doesnt care about American values and only cares about your cowardice
First the CIA trys to drag Bob Graham onto their web. Oops.
Next they try Dave Obey. Oops.
Is Jesus next?
May 19th, 2009 at 4:26 pmSheepledog
I know you are too stupid to understand this or really anything else but honor is a gift a person gives himself also a country. It starts with having values. I am sure a soulless punk like you doesnt really understand the concept of either values OR honor but I digress. You do what is right. You do it even when it costs. Even when it means cowards like YOU wont FEEL better that we are torturing people. You cant show it actually makes you SAFER only that you FEEL better because you are a coward. If you DONT do what is right even when it involves risk or has a cost then you never HAD values OR honor in the first place. I know this zoomed right over your empty worthless cesspool of a head like a 747 over a red state but I cant possibly dumb it down to the level you have some hope of understanding. See you are a moron. A moron and a cowardly punk. You LIKE the idea of brown people being tortured because it makes you feel like a toughguy, because you are so stupid you learned everything you know about foriegn policy and the world from watching John Wayne movies, Red Dawn, and 24. Many of us however ARE capable of higher brain function and we DO understand these concepts so just go back to snivelling from under your mommys bed you coward, let the adults take care of the real world and pour yourself a nice steaming hot cup of STFU
May 19th, 2009 at 4:32 pmCFP,
May 19th, 2009 at 4:36 pmJust give it up. Waterboarding is torture and you know it. Your like a little brat who keeps whining when you dont get your way. Your idols limpdick,orielly,hannity they know its torture too.Bush/Cheney and the rest of the criminals in his administration will be brought to justice one day. When that day does come and there wearing orange jumpsuits are you going to still back them up and kiss their convicted asses.
Eugenedebs, there have been times I have felt you step over the line whupping on trolls. I have been guilty of it myself. Your post at 153 is a good one. No caps, no attacks, just a very strong heartfelt expression. Good job.
May 19th, 2009 at 4:41 pmI plead guilty to remorseless trollstabbing and appreciate the compliment
May 19th, 2009 at 4:43 pmshoeless Says:
Zooey Says:
——————————————————————————–
Not that it’s all that hard to school Elizabeth Hasselbeck… ;)
Betcha none of her teachers ever said that.
May 19th, 2009 at 1:45 pm
Excellent point…
May 19th, 2009 at 5:15 pmCOProgressive Says:
——————————————————————————–
Let Ventura “waterboard” Scarborough. Once Scarborough admits he killed the secretary found dead in his office, Venture can stop.
I guess that would “Prove” Scarborough’s claim that TORTURE IS EFFECTIVE!
ditto that!
May 20th, 2009 at 12:46 pm