Decorated fighter pilot fought DADT discharge hoping Obama would end the policy.
Decorated fighter pilot fought DADT discharge hoping Obama would end the policy.
Last night on MSNBC, host Rachel Maddow interviewed Lt. Col. Victor Fehrenbach, a decorated U.S. Air Force fighter pilot who received notice last September that he was being discharged due to the military’s Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell policy. Fehrenbach served in both the Iraq and Afghanistan theaters, was just two years away from retiring with a full pension, and estimates that the U.S. military spent roughly $25 million training him. When he received word of his discharge, Fehrenbach decided to fight, hoping that, if elected, Obama would quickly change the policy:
FEHRENBACH: But the more I thought about it, about how wrong this policy is, I thought that I had to fight and perhaps with my unique perspective, I could speak out and help other people in the meantime.
MADDOW: Did you think that President Obama, if he were elected, was going to end the policy?
FEHRENBACH: I did. I had tremendous hope around September and that was actually when I did reverse my decision and decided to fight because I did have hope that President Obama would follow through on his commitment to change the policy and — and initiate a policy of non discrimination.
Watch the interview here:
Transcript:
MADDOW: We begin tonight with a man named Lieutenant Colonel Victor Fehrenbach — an F-15 fighter pilot, an 18-year veteran of the United States Air Force. On September 11th, Lieutenant Colonel Fahrenbach was picked to be part of the initial alert crew immediately following the 9/11 attacks. The following year in 2002, he deployed to Kuwait where he flew combat missions over Afghanistan attacking Taliban and al Qaeda targets. After the U.S. invasion of Iraq in 2003, Lieutenant Colonel Fahrenbach deployed there, flying combat missions in support of “Operation Iraqi Freedom.” Over the span of his career, he has flown 88 combat missions including missions that were the longest combat sorties in the history of his squadron. He logged more than 2,000 flying hours, nearly 1,500 fighter hours, 400 combat hours. Lieutenant Colonel Fahrenbach is also highly decorated. He’s received nine air medals including one for heroism.
After 18 years of active duty in the Air Force, this experienced, decorated, fighter pilot says he ready and willing to deploy again. He is ready to do whatever his country and the United States Air Force ask of him. The military is now firing him. He’s just been informed by the U.S. military that his career is over. After 18 years of service less than two years shy of being able to retire with a full air force pension he’s being discharged from the U.S. air force under the military’s Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell policy.
Despite a record of documented heroism an unblemished career, despite the fact that he estimates the U.S. military spent roughly $25 million training him, Lieutenant Colonel Fehrenbach is being fired. He was informed of his impending discharge in September. He and his lawyer have tried to delay his appeal as long as possible — hoping the new president would fulfill the pledge he made as a candidate to repeal Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell. So far that hasn’t happened but today there were two important developments on the front. The first is the Obama administration’s decision to accept an appeals court ruling in favor of another discharged air force pilot essentially that ruling said the government has to prove why the continued service of a gay service member in this case a woman, is a threat to military discipline.
The Obama administration could have appealed that ruling to the Supreme Court but they chose not to. The other development was far less promising, it came from the pentagon which announced today it has no plans to end don’t ask don’t tell. And they say they do not anticipate being asked to end don’t ask don’t tell anytime soon.
MORRELL: I do not believe there are any plans under way in this building for some expected but not articulated anticipation that don’t ask don’t tell will be repealed. This building views don’t ask don’t tell as the law of the land until congress acts otherwise, to my knowledge, David there, are no internal planning efforts under way in anticipation of a change in that law.
MADDOW: It is in the shadow of these political promises left unfulfilled that lieutenant colonel victor fehrenbach now faces his impending dismissal from the military a decision that he challenged but, so far, has lost. Joining us for his first ever interview is the lieutenant colonel victor fehrenbach. Thank you so much for joining us tonight, sir. Thank you for your service.
FEHRENBACH: Thank you, Rachel.
MADDOW: You’ve been in the air force 18 years. What was your reaction when you found out you are being investigated and then discharged?
FEHRENBACH: I was devastated, absolutely devastated, Rachel. The air force has been my life, I was born on an air force base, the air force has been part of my family and I’ve served for 18 years and I was just two years short of retirement, so basically, I was faced with the end of my life as I knew it.
MADDOW: Were you expecting that you would at some point redeploy at the time that you found out they wanted you out?
FEHRENBACH: Absolutely. In fact, two weeks before this all came to light — or I’m sorry two weeks after this all came to light I was expected to deploy.
MADDOW: You were expected to deploy two weeks they told you they were going to take you out.
FEHRENBACH: Yes.
MADDOW: So, you were informed in September and I know that the possibility of president Obama winning the election, again, you were told in September the election was in November factored into how you decided to proceed with your appeal here. How did it factor in?
FEHRENBACH: Absolutely. This — first, these allegations first came to light in May and I wasn’t served my paperwork until September and my initial reaction was I just wanted this all to go away. I wanted a quick, quiet, fair, honorable discharge. But the more I thought about it, about how wrong this policy is, I thought that I had to fight and perhaps with my unique perspective, I could speak out and help other people in the meantime.
MADDOW: Did you think that president Obama, if he were elected, was going to end the policy?
FEHRENBACH: I did. I had tremendous hope around September and that was actually when I did reverse my decision and decided to fight because I did have hope that president Obama would follow through on his commitment to change the policy and — and initiate a policy of non discrimination.
MADDOW: There’s obviously a great sense of urgency in your life right now to don’t ask, don’t tell. And you saw the pent bon spokesman speaking today and hear all the talk how this is discussed in Washington and there definitely doesn’t seem to be that same urgency among the policymakers and politicos on this. One of the things that’s been proposed even if the policy can’t be changed through congress immediately, president Obama could show an act of good faith and do a lot of good by people like you by just taking executive action not to end the policy but to stop implementing it, to have a moratorium on the implementation of this policy until can be reviewed. Would you support something like that?
FEHRENBACH: Well, Rachel that would be an immediate solution for me and that would help my case. But the way I understand it, that’s sort of a temporary solution. I think we need a permanent solution from congress. I would hope that they would act and I would hope that the president moves fast and fulfills his promise to us. And proposes a policy of non-discrimination.
MADDOW: What’s your response to the overall argument underlying this policy? I mean the proponents of the policy say that you personally, you being gay, has a negative affect on your squadron’s good order and discipline. How do you feel about that?
FEHRENBACH: Well, it’s absolutely false. Basically, I went to my board and one of the board findings was that my presence was inconsistent with good order, discipline and morale and the fact of the matter is, for the last 369 days, I have been going to work every day and doing my duty with absolutely no impact on morale, discipline and good order.
For about 4,000 people assigned to mountain home air force base and about ten people on the entire base even knew about my case up until this very moment. And those were my immediate chain of command, this we a couple of the attorneys in the legal office and couple investigators in the office of special investigations. Not one single person that I’m assigned with in my squadron or that I fly with in my fighter squadron knew about this case until this moment.
MADDOW: I’d like to ask about something that’s not related don’t ask don’t tell because I want people to remember you and I want people to think about you when they think about this policy. Can I ask you, and I hope you don’t mind me asking because I didn’t ask in advance if this was okay could you tell me of the circumstances of the air medal you won for heroism?
FEHRENBACH: Sure, I think I can tell you the basics it was April 3rd, 2003 and basically the army was making the initial advance on Baghdad to first take Baghdad international airport and we were initially tasked with taking out basically any enemy positions we found that could stop their advance and so, after we had destroyed a couple missile launchers, actually found an Iraqi ambush site of about — it was about 12 armored personnel carriers that were just less than a mile from the army advance. We could see the army advance moving towards the airport.
At the time, my wingman had a major aircraft malfunction and was unable to deliver his weapons. So, in a short span of time, it was about 15, 20 minutes, we were able to employ all the weapons from my aircraft as well as I guided all the weapons from my wingman’s aircraft while under — it was constant triple-A fire and I believe we were fired upon approximately eight times by surface-to-air missiles.
MADDOW: And you took out the enemy position completely.
FEHRENBACH: We took the entire position out and that night the army took Baghdad international airport.
MADDOW: Lt. Col. victor fehrenbach 18-year veteran of the air force received a discharge letter September 2008, good luck to you. Thank you for talking with us tonight.
FEHRENBACH: Thank you, Rachel.
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This is really too bad — Obama can and should order a temporary halt to the practice of discharging these individuals until Congress can deal with it with legislation.
May 20th, 2009 at 1:47 pmMarie, agreed. This and stories like it are a national disgrace.
Question: When those serving are dismissed under DADT, do they receive a dishonorable discharge?
PEACE
May 20th, 2009 at 1:49 pmPlease send your comments on how President Obama has not kept his LGBT campaign promises to the White House:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/contact/
That is the best way YOU can make change. If enough people speak out, then Obama will be forced to keep his word. Please be respectful when communicating with the White House.
May 20th, 2009 at 1:55 pmObama is going to be a huge disappointment to all progressive Democrats. The gays are just one of the first groups to really feel let down (along with the anti-war groups, the anti-torture groups, the groups for transpanacy in government and those wanting real health care reform…)
Obama is proving to be a politician. And a really good one…
May 20th, 2009 at 1:59 pmdecorated fighter pilot? you mean baby killin’ blitzkrieg bomber.
yes….we need more of those.
May 20th, 2009 at 2:04 pmThe Obama administration could have appealed that ruling to the Supreme Court but they chose not to.
It appears that the military would rather lose GOOD and HONORABLE soldiers that they have spent millions on educating and training and have a rookie come in to take his/her place spending millions more of OUR TAXPAYER DOLLARS. To say nothing of the personal toll it’s taking on those who are gay as they cannot retire with the benefits they so richly deserve after protecting and serving our country so we can live in freedom. Nothing about this situation is WISE.
I don’t understand when a soldier [like Choi or Fehrenbach] who is gay states that ‘the military starts’ an investigation – did another soldier tell the higher ups that they suspect this person is gay and then the military start the investigation? Or is everyone investigated at some point during his/her service in an effort to make certain no gays are serving? Does anyone know how this works? Thanks.
May 20th, 2009 at 2:06 pm… was just two years away from retiring with a full pension…
and there’s your ACTUAL reason… at least they didn’t wait till it was 2 MONTHS… now THAT would’ve been too obvious…
just my opinion…
May 20th, 2009 at 2:08 pm… initiate a policy of non discrimination.
do it, mr. president.
executive order.
simple.
May 20th, 2009 at 2:10 pmAppalling.
May 20th, 2009 at 2:11 pm.
Dear Trolls,
Remember, “Zero hour” was translated 24 hours too late because of DADT. Need we keep this sh!t up?
.
May 20th, 2009 at 2:13 pmWe are a nation of idiots.
May 20th, 2009 at 2:15 pmspencers mom (#2): They may receive an honorable discharge if and only if they don’t fight the discharge. To question it risks getting either a dishonorable discharge or a “general under honorable conditions” discharge. Both general and dishonorable discharges result in loss of all benefits.
May 20th, 2009 at 2:15 pmShouldn’t there be a grandfather clause for Lt. Col. Victor Fehrenbach considering he was commissioned into the USAF two years before DADT?
May 20th, 2009 at 2:15 pmdjreedps Says:
——–
Please send your comments on how President Obama has not kept his LGBT campaign promises to the White House:
______________________
djreedps:
May 20th, 2009 at 2:16 pmI did speak out on the provided website by stating that equality should not only include creed, nationality, religion, disabled, race, gender but ALSO SEXUAL ORIENTATION since the other civil rights are already accepted after decades of fighting. Like you said, IF enough of us speak out, they will have to listen!
This is one of many campaign promises that Obama obviously has no intent of keeping. They could have just added the repeal of DADT as a rider to any one of a number of monster sized bills already passed.
———–
jeeze CFP again you demonstrate NO knowledge of military law. I just pointed this out to you not a few hours ago. He can’t JUST repeal it. There are other laws that need to dealt with. Simple repealing would lead to it being illegal for gays to serve period. Read a friggin book.
You pointed out yourself he has been in office 121 days. That’s hardly a fair amount of time to say he’s broken a promise.
May 20th, 2009 at 2:24 pmWhile President Obama is carefully and thoughtfully giving this subject matter attention, couldn’t he for now suspend all unwanted discharges, and retroactively to those discharged merely because of orientation?
I for one feel some planning and thought needs to go into this for protection and safety reasons from the homo phobes.
May 20th, 2009 at 2:25 pmGranted I haven’t been in the military in a while but I don’t recall a general under honorable conditions repealing your benefits? Could be wrong.
May 20th, 2009 at 2:26 pmIt is a disgrace that this man’s 18 yrs of brave and selfless service to his country is repaid by his country throwing him out of the service and screwing him out of his (well earned and deserved) pension.
May 20th, 2009 at 2:55 pmShame on the United States of America and shame on President Obama for allowing this injustice to continue.
too many people got used to bush’s legislating with executive order
obama doesn’t work like that, he will move through the proper channels
trolls and libs alike will just have to be patient
whenever you begin to doubt obama, consider the alternative we were given -shudder-
May 20th, 2009 at 3:04 pmI agree with RantingTommy. I don’t want Obama to start the Bush tactic of legislating from the White House. He is supposed to execute the laws that are currently in force. That said, I am disappointed that he has not been using the Presidential/Commander In Chief bully pulpit to push Congress to change the law.
May 20th, 2009 at 3:27 pmTrue, here are a lot of things Obama has done that II’d have liked him to do differently, but since we could have had McCain/Palin, I’m still giving Obama the benefit of the doubt. I still support him and advise everyone who is unhappy with what he has or hasn’t done to communicate your feelings to him and to the Democratic congress. Do it often and do it strongly. Call, nail, email – just do it.
May 20th, 2009 at 3:28 pmThe only “CHANGE” that came to Washington was in Obama’s discourse… from his empty rhetoric pretending to be part of peace and progressive policies, to become Obama “The new WAR PRESIDENT” with all the Bush/Chenney attributes.
May 20th, 2009 at 3:32 pmObama capitalised on people’s hope. Thankfully, psychologically speaking, love and hate are part of the same coin. He keeps on spiting on the face of the people who vote for actual “CHANGE” and the other side of the coin eventually will come to light.
rantingtommy hit the nail on the head.
Actual progressives need to separate themselves from timid liberals and rabid conservatives on things like this. We could have had JMac and Caribou Barbie…would this even be an issue with them? And you know how Palin is on social issues, she’s an evangelicals dream
There are some good things he’s done so far, and very quickly. He but certain things have to take more time and need to be prioritized.
May 20th, 2009 at 3:55 pmDADT means “don’t ask, don’t tell.” While I disagree with the policy, it’s clearly stated and known. Lt. Col. Fehrenbach chose to tell two years before his retirement. Sad for sure, but he chose to tell knowing the consequences.
The question is: Will this make a difference?
May 20th, 2009 at 3:58 pmI love a man in uniform. He’s hot! I’d like to check out his rocket launcher!
May 20th, 2009 at 3:59 pmDesegregation and the integration of women into the military was pretty much the brainchild of military leaders. I think President Obama will eventually make it legal for gays to serve openly in the military, but first he has to convince the brass that they want to do that and can. It’s not sufficient for him to pull rank.
The resistance to gays in the military is backward and silly, but military leaders reject what they perceive as political manipulation of military culture for good reason (at times). Allowing gays to serve in the military, IMO, and according to studies done on other military forces that have integrated gays, should not be a serious problem, given that the top brass is dedicated to making it happen.
If gays were allowed to serve openly, then the tide turned, and popular opinion were against gays serving in the military, and a president or Congress were to ban gays again, that would be a problem for the military.
May 20th, 2009 at 4:00 pmWhen I say “President Obama will…make it legal”, I really mean, that he will convince others to do so (and get credit, like presidents do).
May 20th, 2009 at 4:01 pmwiley Says:
When I say “President Obama will…make it legal”, I really mean, that he will convince others to do so (and get credit, like presidents do).
May 20th, 2009 at 4:01 pm
Waitaminute. If 9/11 was Clinton’s fault, does that mean when Obama repeals DADT, Bush gets the credit?
May 20th, 2009 at 4:21 pm/snark
Why can’t they just let all the soldiers vote on this and then give the results to President Obama and then he can push it on Congress. Isn’t Lindsey Graham still in the Reserves? Through him out too then.
May 20th, 2009 at 4:38 pmBecause the military is not a democrat organization?
May 20th, 2009 at 4:39 pmdemocratic
sheesh
May 20th, 2009 at 4:40 pmHas there ever been an incident of sexual harrassment of same sex in the military? I have never heard of that happening.
May 20th, 2009 at 4:40 pmMy heart aches for this man when he says, “I had tremendous hope….” It aches for him and all in this nation who believed Obama.
sarcapenapa says:” …psychologically speaking, love and hate are part of the same coin. He keeps on spiting on the face of the people who vote for actual “CHANGE” and the other side of the coin eventually will come to light.”
May 20th, 2009 at 4:52 pmSarca, thank you for explaining the intense visceral response that I feel now when I hear Obama speak.
Has there ever been an incident of sexual harrassment of same sex in the military? I have never heard of that happening.
—-
yes it does happen just as it happens with men to female or female to male harassment. You probably just don’t hear it reported basically.
May 20th, 2009 at 5:53 pmObama is doing a great job of emulating Clinton. He makes a great Republican.
May 20th, 2009 at 6:03 pmObama’s been in office exactly four months. He’s done more in that time than Bush did in eight years. Obama’s got another 3 1/2 years left before his term ends. Could we at least wait until then to accuse him of breaking his campaign promise on DADT? The man’s not the Messiah.
May 20th, 2009 at 6:45 pmkdgamergirl Says:
Has there ever been an incident of sexual harrassment of same sex in the military? I have never heard of that happening.
—-
yes it does happen just as it happens with men to female or female to male harassment. You probably just don’t hear it reported basically.
Actually, incidents of sexual harassment by males upon women happen a LOT more often than either women harassing men or of same-sex harassment. Remember Tailhook?
May 20th, 2009 at 6:53 pmLt. Col. Victor Fehrenbach,
Thank you for your service to our country. I, for one, would have been proud to serve in your command. DADT is a horrible, bigoted, and unnecessary policy. The ONLY ones who want to see it in place are the ones who have an irrational fear of gay people. They should not be allowed to win the debate.
May 20th, 2009 at 7:03 pmJust out of curiosity, suppose that instead of banning gay people from serving in the military (and make no mistake, DADT is a ban on gays in the military no matter how its supporters twist it), we banned homophobes, xenophobes, racists and bigots from serving. Would we be kicking even more of those type of people out than we did gays under DADT? If so, then we may have an even bigger problem on our hands that we are not addressing.
May 20th, 2009 at 7:05 pmActually, incidents of sexual harassment by males upon women happen a LOT more often than either women harassing men or of same-sex harassment. Remember Tailhook?
yeah I do. There is a reason why we couldn’t “fraternize” with men when on ships. It happens a lot more than one would be lead to think.
May 20th, 2009 at 9:11 pmThe DoD “lowered” their recruiting standards thereby allowing convicted felons (criminal assault, armed robbery, etc) to serve in the armed forces. . .but an 18 year war veteran & fighter pilot is being dishonorably discharged because he’s gay??? Is this the military version of no child left behind?
May 20th, 2009 at 9:36 pmOn top of those lowered standards, we have burnout and injuries from three or more consecutive combat tours. Our military is in need of reform all the way around.
May 20th, 2009 at 10:15 pm.
Dear proud @#19,
Please don’t make have to recommend you.
.
May 21st, 2009 at 12:47 am#28 – wiley Says:
———————————————————
“Desegregation and the integration of women into the military was pretty much the brainchild of military leaders.”
May 20th, 2009 at 4:00 pm
Wiley, this is not true. It took an executive order to desegregate the military, Executive Order 9981 by President Harry S Truman.
May 21st, 2009 at 9:23 amDoes anybody go to work in the civilian world and have to listen to their co-workers mention, talk about, bring up their gay lifestyle. Last I checked, everybody on this site believes what you believe/lifestyle choice has no bearing on how well you do your job RIGHT? So if I go to work and the majority of you here don’t want to hear about somebody believing in GOD, I likewise don’t want to go to work and here about your Gay lifestyle. What’s good for the goose is good for the gander. LETS APPLY AN EQUAL STANDARD HERE!!! Let’s just go to work and talk about work and nobody has to irritate each other about what they believe in or do outside of work. Why would the GAY agenda get more consideration than anything else. Why is the choice about what you do with your genitals outside of work so important to me at work? Does any workplace become more productive because GAYS wanna be loud and proud? Church get in the closet/ GAYS come on out of the closet. DON’T ASK DON’T TELL WORKS WELL because the average soldier only cares if you can do the job.
May 21st, 2009 at 1:44 pm