Obama Reiterates Promise To Close Gitmo, Urges Congress Not To Make Decisions In A ‘Climate Of Fear’
Obama Reiterates Promise To Close Gitmo, Urges Congress Not To Make Decisions In A ‘Climate Of Fear’
Speaking in front of the original U.S. Constitution at the National Archives this morning, President Obama delivered a lengthy, detailed speech outlining his approach to national security. Obama criticized Bush’s legal system at that convicted only three terrorists in seven years. He said it was “clear” that, “rather than keep us safer, the prison at Guantanamo has weakened American national security.”
Discussing the problem of what to do with the detainees currently imprisoned at Guantanamo, Obama reminded the audience that the problem was caused by the erroneous decision to open the extra-legal prison camp in the first place:
Indeed, the legal challenges that have sparked so much debate in recent weeks in Washington would be taking place whether or not I decided to close Guantanamo. For example, the court order to release seventeen Uighur detainees took place last fall — when George Bush was President. The Supreme Court that invalidated the system of prosecution at Guantanamo in 2006 was overwhelmingly appointed by Republican Presidents. In other words, the problem of what to do with Guantanamo detainees was not caused by my decision to close the facility; the problem exists because of the decision to open Guantanamo in the first place.
He also seemed to mildly rebuke Congress — which yesterday barred the use of any funds to transfer detainees to the United States — for making “decisions within a climate of fear.” He challenged them to remember their oath:
As our efforts to close Guantanamo move forward, I know that the politics in Congress will be difficult. These issues are fodder for 30-second commercials and direct mail pieces that are designed to frighten. I get it. But if we continue to make decisions from within a climate of fear, we will make more mistakes. … I have confidence that the American people are more interested in doing what is right to protect this country than in political posturing. I am not the only person in this city who swore an oath to uphold the Constitution — so did each and every member of Congress. Together we have a responsibility to enlist our values in the effort to secure our people, and to leave behind the legacy that makes it easier for future Presidents to keep this country safe.
Watch it:
Obama said that his administration “will seek to transfer some detainees to the same type of facilities in which we hold all manner of dangerous and violent criminals within our borders.” He disputed conservatives’ claims that U.S. prisons could never accommodate terror detainees as “not rational.”
Transcript:
The second decision that I made was to order the closing of the prison camp at Guantanamo Bay.
For over seven years, we have detained hundreds of people at Guantanamo. During that time, the system of Military Commissions at Guantanamo succeeded in convicting a grand total of three suspected terrorists. Let me repeat that: three convictions in over seven years. Instead of bringing terrorists to justice, efforts at prosecution met setbacks, cases lingered on, and in 2006 the Supreme Court invalidated the entire system. Meanwhile, over five hundred and twenty-five detainees were released from Guantanamo under the Bush Administration. Let me repeat that: two-thirds of the detainees were released before I took office and ordered the closure of Guantanamo.
There is also no question that Guantanamo set back the moral authority that is America’s strongest currency in the world. Instead of building a durable framework for the struggle against al Qaeda that drew upon our deeply held values and traditions, our government was defending positions that undermined the rule of law. Indeed, part of the rationale for establishing Guantanamo in the first place was the misplaced notion that a prison there would be beyond the law – a proposition that the Supreme Court soundly rejected. Meanwhile, instead of serving as a tool to counter-terrorism, Guantanamo became a symbol that helped al Qaeda recruit terrorists to its cause. Indeed, the existence of Guantanamo likely created more terrorists around the world than it ever detained.
So the record is clear: rather than keep us safer, the prison at Guantanamo has weakened American national security. It is a rallying cry for our enemies. It sets back the willingness of our allies to work with us in fighting an enemy that operates in scores of countries. By any measure, the costs of keeping it open far exceed the complications involved in closing it. That is why I argued that it should be closed throughout my campaign. And that is why I ordered it closed within one year.
The third decision that I made was to order a review of all the pending cases at Guantanamo.
I knew when I ordered Guantanamo closed that it would be difficult and complex. There are 240 people there who have now spent years in legal limbo. In dealing with this situation, we do not have the luxury of starting from scratch. We are cleaning up something that is – quite simply – a mess; a misguided experiment that has left in its wake a flood of legal challenges that my Administration is forced to deal with on a constant basis, and that consumes the time of government officials whose time should be spent on better protecting our country.
Indeed, the legal challenges that have sparked so much debate in recent weeks in Washington would be taking place whether or not I decided to close Guantanamo. For example, the court order to release seventeen Uighur detainees took place last fall – when George Bush was President. The Supreme Court that invalidated the system of prosecution at Guantanamo in 2006 was overwhelmingly appointed by Republican Presidents. In other words, the problem of what to do with Guantanamo detainees was not caused by my decision to close the facility; the problem exists because of the decision to open Guantanamo in the first place.
There are no neat or easy answers here. But I can tell you that the wrong answer is to pretend like this problem will go away if we maintain an unsustainable status quo. As President, I refuse to allow this problem to fester. Our security interests won’t permit it. Our courts won’t allow it. And neither should our conscience.
Now, over the last several weeks, we have seen a return of the politicization of these issues that have characterized the last several years. I understand that these problems arouse passions and concerns. They should. We are confronting some of the most complicated questions that a democracy can face. But I have no interest in spending our time re-litigating the policies of the last eight years. I want to solve these problems, and I want to solve them together as Americans.
And we will be ill-served by some of the fear-mongering that emerges whenever we discuss this issue. Listening to the recent debate, I’ve heard words that are calculated to scare people rather than educate them; words that have more to do with politics than protecting our country. So I want to take this opportunity to lay out what we are doing, and how we intend to resolve these outstanding issues. I will explain how each action that we are taking will help build a framework that protects both the American people and the values that we hold dear. And I will focus on two broad areas: first, issues relating to Guantanamo and our detention policy; second, issues relating to security and transparency.
Let me begin by disposing of one argument as plainly as I can: we are not going to release anyone if it would endanger our national security, nor will we release detainees within the United States who endanger the American people. Where demanded by justice and national security, we will seek to transfer some detainees to the same type of facilities in which we hold all manner of dangerous and violent criminals within our borders – highly secure prisons that ensure the public safety. As we make these decisions, bear in mind the following fact: nobody has ever escaped from one of our federal “supermax” prisons, which hold hundreds of convicted terrorists. As Senator Lindsey Graham said: “The idea that we cannot find a place to securely house 250-plus detainees within the United States is not rational.” [...]
As our efforts to close Guantanamo move forward, I know that the politics in Congress will be difficult. These issues are fodder for 30-second commercials and direct mail pieces that are designed to frighten. I get it. But if we continue to make decisions from within a climate of fear, we will make more mistakes. And if we refuse to deal with these issues today, then I guarantee you that they will be an albatross around our efforts to combat terrorism in the future. I have confidence that the American people are more interested in doing what is right to protect this country than in political posturing. I am not the only person in this city who swore an oath to uphold the Constitution – so did each and every member of Congress. Together we have a responsibility to enlist our values in the effort to secure our people, and to leave behind the legacy that makes it easier for future Presidents to keep this country safe.
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While the first few paragraphs sounded like they could have been spoken by Bush, the rest sounded great. Now he needs to follow those nice words with action that doesn’t follow in the footsteps of the Bush Crime Family, as too many of his recent actions/decisions have.
May 21st, 2009 at 11:40 amIsn’t this the AEI conference?
Why are they allowed to reserve the public National Archives for their private meetings??? So they can use the Constitution as their urinal?
May 21st, 2009 at 11:46 amGITMO will be closed by 2010, I really believe that. But I dont take the arguments of the people that have concerns about the detainees lightly.
Just give them back to their countries and leave it at that. Should they return to their religious crusades, so be it. All you have to say to those who didn’t want them here so they couldn’t do that is,
“At least they are not in your back yard…”
May 21st, 2009 at 11:47 amAs Keith Olbermann pointed out last night, our Democrats in the Senate folded like a bunch of wusses. Someone leaked the meme that something like 76 prisoners we released from Gitmo had gone back into the field and are once again terrorists. The problem with this is that there IS NOT PROOF of this contention. Some guy did an analysis of all the cases that the government is claiming had gone back to terrorism and found that not one could be substantiated. A couple of the guys participated in a documentary about terrorism and this was counted as them going back to terrorism.
I had high hopes for the Democrats after the last election. Unfortunately those hopes are being dashed on a daily basis.
May 21st, 2009 at 11:48 amClimate of Fear????
That is what this whole administration has been using since day one…to bully their socialist agenda through. Give us a freaking break teleprompter.
May 21st, 2009 at 11:49 amPatiently awaiting the eloquent counterpart to Obama’s speech by former veep Dickless Cheney at the AEI neoconfest. It should be entertaining and informative to say the least.
May 21st, 2009 at 11:49 amScottsdalian Says:
Isn’t this the AEI conference?
Why are they allowed to reserve the public National Archives for their private meetings??? So they can use the Constitution as their urinal?
You must be in some kind of a time warp. The President who pissed on the constitution is gone now. Wake up and get with it man.
May 21st, 2009 at 11:50 amBilbo Hussein Baggins Says:
As Keith Olbermann pointed out last night
There was you’re first mistake…believing anything that comes out of that socialist’s mouth.
May 21st, 2009 at 11:51 amRealityCheck Says:
Climate of Fear????
That is what this whole administration has been using since day one…to bully their socialist agenda through. Give us a freaking break teleprompter.
Oh really, give us an example of any fear mongering the President has done.
BTW, the teleprompter meme is so yesterday. You really do need to come up with new talking points.
May 21st, 2009 at 11:51 amsomething occurred to me, and i’m curious enough to ask the smart people here this mostly irrelevant, at this time, question:
could harry have postponed that funding vote?
would have gone a long way toward avoiding embarrassing his boss…
say, we’ll vote on this AFTER the prez gives us his plan…
i’m still really mad at harry… we need a leader who compliment our president…
May 21st, 2009 at 11:51 amRealityCheck Says:
Bilbo Hussein Baggins Says:
As Keith Olbermann pointed out last night
There was you’re first mistake…believing anything that comes out of that socialist’s mouth.
Ok, name the lies that Keith Olbermann has been caught telling. Unlike O’Reilly, Hannity, Beck et. al. I’m thinking that you won’t be able to come up with one lie.
Also, perhaps you can show the proof that any detainee released from Gitmo has returned to become a terrorist once again.
May 21st, 2009 at 11:52 am.
This was a good speech yet was still disheartened to hear him use the terms “ENHANCED INTERROGATION METHODS” and the Rule of Law in the same sentence. WTF???
.
May 21st, 2009 at 11:55 amRealityCheck Says:
Bilbo Hussein Baggins Says:
As Keith Olbermann pointed out last night
There was you’re first mistake…believing anything that comes out of that socialist’s mouth.
Olbermann’s a socialist? Good lord, another neo-con that has no idea what the word means.
May 21st, 2009 at 11:55 amRealityCheck Says:
That is what this whole administration has been using since day one…to bully their socialist agenda through.
May 21st, 2009 at 11:49 am
_____________
Do explain to me what is wrong with socialism, troll. In your own words, please.
May 21st, 2009 at 11:56 am.
Dear RealityCheck,
And your’s was Following the Rule of a Man(Bush/Cheney), not the Law.
Sieg Heil, much?
.
May 21st, 2009 at 11:57 amRealityCheck Says:
Climate of Fear????
That is what this whole administration has been using since day one…to bully their socialist agenda through. Give us a freaking break teleprompter.
Socialist & Teleprompter….again? You guys really need more material. Where’s Ayers/Pfleger/Wright while you are on 2008 campaign talking points.
Listen up for some actual reality…
1. Bet you dont make 250K a year…check
2. Bet if you have healthcare that your premiums, deductibles, and overall quality didn’t suck…check
3. Bet you’ve never served a day in the armed forces…check
4. Bet you have an elderly relative that recieves social security (socialist program)…check
5. Bet you watch the FOX News chanel (they all use telepromters)…check…
check…and checkmate.
May 21st, 2009 at 12:00 pm.
Dear RealityCheck,
But “CODE ORANGE” isn’t Fearmongering?
Dude, check INTO reality someday, it will do your consciousness wonders.
.
May 21st, 2009 at 12:00 pm“But if we continue to make decisions from within a climate of fear, we will make more mistakes.” — President Barack Obama
_____________________________________________________________
You mean decisions like invading Iraq? Or authorizing an invasion of Iraq? Or authorizing illegal torture? Or spying on American citizens without a warrant?
Making and implementing decisions in a climate of fear tends to be done sloppily, in haste, and without regard to consequences. It’s been this general policy that’s gotten us into the FUBAR situation we’re in now.
I admit I get impatient when the clean-up of the mess seems to be moving at a glacial pace. But if this is what it takes to make the right decisions instead of sloppy ones, I’ll try to live with it.
May 21st, 2009 at 12:01 pmThere used to be this concept back before the ‘Patriot’ Act.
May 21st, 2009 at 12:02 pmIt was something about being “Innocent until proven guilty”.
Now if the govt wishes to strip someone of all their human rights, all they have to do is label them ‘terrorist’.
Some of these people have been locked up for years with no trial. They deserve to have their day in court.
As for the supposed number of those released who are now fighting the US, I am surprised that it is not MUCH higher considering what has been done to them. If a govt treated me in such a fashion, I would spend the rest of my life trying to make them pay.
The idea that US prisons cannot safely hold these people is utterly ridiculous.
The cowardly response of Harry Reid and the rest of the Senate to this fear mongering is despicable and fills me with contempt.
I’m not happy with everything Obama has done, but he has a great ability to sweep aside all the shenanigans and address the core issue. If our Congress people would work with the President I think we could see some progress.
May 21st, 2009 at 12:03 pmchiroptera toasterhead Says
May 21st, 2009 at 11:56 am
Do explain to me what is wrong with socialism, troll. In your own words, please.
_____________________________________________________________
Don’t hold your breath. First, he has to look it up. And then he has to find the scariest definition possible (preferably something associated with Karl Marx). And then he has to come up with a plausible argument that President Obama’s policies fit that scary definition.
All that takes time. OK — skip the “plausible argument”. Even coming up with a trollish absurd argument will take awhile.
May 21st, 2009 at 12:07 pmClimate of fear? That better describes the White House and Congress’ dance away from any credible torture investigation. Reuters reported:
Obama rejects call for Bush-era truth commission
U.S. President Barack Obama on Thursday rejected calls, including by some fellow Democrats, for a truth commission to investigate Bush-era terrorism policies, saying nothing would be gained from it.
http://www.reuters.com/article/politicsNews/idUSTRE54K3ZQ20090521
Obama expects a complicit Congress to do the work of the Justice Department. Sad.
May 21st, 2009 at 12:16 pmoh good… i was worried i might interrupt the trool fest…
carry on…
May 21st, 2009 at 12:19 pmCongress and the Senate are nothing more than spineless jellyfish who’s only concern is their careers and paychecks.
They need to get on the ball, ignore the scum-bag republic fascist party and get the job done right.
May 21st, 2009 at 12:19 pmThe primary point being that hasty decisions based in FEAR solves nothing especially for the long term and that the U.S.A. SUPERMAX FEDERAL PRISON SYSTEM IS ABSOLUTELY CAPABLE OF HANDLING TERRORISTS. But Cheney [in his FEAR MONGERING speech following] states that Obama will NOT refer to the ‘war on terror’ as what it actually is – a war, instead Obama says that we have an ‘overseas conflict’ and we cannot have these terrorists in our homeland [god, I HATE that word as it is so reminescent of Hitler's Germany].
May 21st, 2009 at 12:20 pmObama’s good at speeches. Too bad he doesn’t follow that up with consistent action….
Cheers,
May 21st, 2009 at 12:22 pmsometimes I wish that political speech would just be more direct, like Obama could just point at Harry Reid and call him out for everyone to see. There’s something debilitating about this language, and that’s even with the fact that Obama is one of the more direct speakers for sure.
May 21st, 2009 at 12:23 pm“I am not the only person in this city who swore an oath to uphold the Constitution — so did each and every member of Congress.” – et tu Mr President!
to be a country of laws the country must uphold ALL laws
to uphold the Constitution you must uphold ALL of the constitution.
If we wanted another Bush we would have voted for Billary or McSame.
Change was supposed to be more than a slogan or a dream, it was supposed to be a promise and a practice!
May 21st, 2009 at 12:28 pmMadasHelinVA,
That Cheney speech…
Cheney speech reportedly refers to 9/11 25 times
http://rawstory.com/08/news/2009/05/21/cheney-speech-reportedly-refers-to-911-25-times/
Dear Mr Cheney,
… Especially in the light that on 09/10/01 you weren’t that concerned about National Security.
XXOO
America
.
May 21st, 2009 at 12:30 pmAlso, I heard a few Cheney talking points in there. Obama said that some of the prisoners (sorry, detainees) that had been released “returned to the battlefield.”
I’ll tell Obama just like I told Cheney (not in person of course) that if they were on a battlefield, then they are prisoners of war and the Geneva Conventions apply.
Either they are POWs and can “return to the battlefield” (which is a crock in the first place) or they are not.
May 21st, 2009 at 12:31 pmchiroptera toasterhead Says
May 21st, 2009 at 11:56 am
Do explain to me what is wrong with socialism, troll. In your own words, please.
_____________________________________________________________
Don’t hold your breath. First, he has to look it up. And then he has to find the scariest definition possible (preferably something associated with Karl Marx). And then he has to come up with a plausible argument that President Obama’s policies fit that scary definition.
All that takes time. OK — skip the “plausible argument”. Even coming up with a trollish absurd argument will take awhile.
May 21st, 2009 at 12:07 pm
********************************************************
well he can’t ‘look it up’ yet .. his mom is still teaching him to tie his shoes
May 21st, 2009 at 12:32 pmtrevinla,
You mean change isn’t about getting a water spaniel?
… WTF??? Now I’m confused.
May 21st, 2009 at 12:33 pmOf the 74 released detainees from Gitmo, all 3,265 of them returned to terrorist activities, advancing the socialist agenda of President Obama, who has complete and unrestricted control over American government under a Unitary Executive, where the President bullies all the politicians into doing his socialist marxist communist anarchist will, which is to destroy America completely.
And all bow before him and his Sith mind control powers.
Fear, he brings, and the masses huddle in fear in their homes and apartments, for through fear the President dominates the land and the entire population, except for the fundamentalist faithful christians who built this country, who are buying up ammo and guns so that, bible in one hand and gun in the other, they can stand against this evil socialist machine and restore the benevolent Permanent Republican Majority so that democracy will reign again under that one party rule.
Seig heil.
(….and if you don’t get the snark… I sure can’t help you….)
May 21st, 2009 at 12:34 pmSorry Chuck, but the first few paragraphs made valid points using facts and therefore could not have been spoken by Obama’s predecessor, the whole is way too eloquent for comparison.
Not only ‘how has this admin used fear since taking over’, but how has the obstructionist opposition not used fear? Just one example of each would be nice. Anyone?
May 21st, 2009 at 12:37 pmIt depends on who is in charge of the system. Is it Hitler or Stalin? Or is it Nicolas Sarkozy or Fredrik Reinfeldt?
How is the system administered? Through largely voluntary action or through force?
Does anyone here trust politicians in DC? I would bet not. Now, would you trust them to run your healthcare system? Would you trust them to run your universities?
If angels ran the government then socialism wouldn’t be so bad. Actually if everyone were angels then you wouldn’t need government at all.
Maybe we could use more politicians like this guy:
http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_3327355.html
At least he’s honest.
May 21st, 2009 at 12:39 pmCageyCretin Says: Of the 74 released detainees from Gitmo, all 3,265 of them returned to terrorist activities
funny, FUNNY, FUNNY, FUUUUUUNNY!
May 21st, 2009 at 12:40 pm(From the official troll dictionary, 2009):
Socialism: A system of governing that runs counter to the conservative ideal, biblical moral, and constitutional right to preserve a separation of economy and state , thus interfering directly with your personal desire to advance greed at any and all costs.
May 21st, 2009 at 12:42 pmHarry said NO! And NO it is…..debate OVER! Gitmo stays open.
May 21st, 2009 at 12:43 pmObama is just setting the table to fold it up and the Bush doctrine lives.
I’m a bit edgy today. :]
May 21st, 2009 at 12:44 pmSlappyBastinado Says:
Harry said NO! And NO it is…..debate OVER! Gitmo stays open.
“Over? Did you say “over”? Nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no! ”
/Snark points to those who get the reference.
May 21st, 2009 at 12:47 pm“I am not the only person in this city who swore an oath to uphold the Constitution — so did each and every member of Congress.”
So why, Mr. President, aren’t you doing your Constitutional duty to uphold the laws of The United States of America?
Your Justice Department has the obligation to prosecute the War Criminals that terrorised America out of the White House for 8 years.
May 21st, 2009 at 12:54 pmMax Anax junius -1 Says:
Cheney speech reportedly refers to 9/11 25 times
I stepped outside for a minute and my neighbor was blasting someone from radio saying, “9/11, 9/11″ over and over again and when I began to listen a little more closely I realized it was Cheney’s speech at the AEI.
I think it may have been Rush playing it because I think I heard his voice at one point. Cheney’s droning, doom and gloom voice, interspersed with pats on his own back, sent me running back inside in no time.
May 21st, 2009 at 12:55 pmLuis…. I just heard that quote….shoot…what is it????
May 21st, 2009 at 12:58 pmRealness, it’s from Animal House.
May 21st, 2009 at 1:01 pmstateofthedivision Says:
Obama expects a complicit Congress to do the work of the Justice Department. Sad.
As usual, in your incessant quest to slime President Obama, you missed the part in his speech where he said that he expects the Justice Department to punish people who violated the law. I believe that would include those who authorized torture. Since you missed it, here’s the direct quote.
The Department of Justice and our courts can work through and punish any violations of our laws.
May 21st, 2009 at 1:02 pmSlappyBastinado Says:
Harry said NO! And NO it is…..debate OVER! Gitmo stays open.
Obama is just setting the table to fold it up and the Bush doctrine lives.
I suspect that your IQ is in the room temperature range because you really don’t have any idea what you are talking about.
The only “debate that is over” is Congress immediately giving funding to close Gitmo. There has been zero decision regarding keeping it open.
I have a suggestion for you. Call your local JC and see if they have a class in Critical Thinking. If they do, take the class because you sure need it.
May 21st, 2009 at 1:05 pmI donated to, supported and voted for Obama and like many here, had very high hopes that the last 8 years of a horror story would be brought to an end. But frankly, I’m not seeing that happen. Talk is cheap; only actions really count. If we are opposed to the actions, we need to not be blinded by our loyalty for or hopes about anyone.
Obama’s civil liberties speech
Obama’s speech this morning, like most Obama speeches, made pretty points in rhetorically effective ways about the Constitution, our values, transparency, oversight, the state secrets privilege, and the rule of law. But his actions, in many critical cases, have repeatedly run afoul of those words. And while his well-crafted speech can have a positive impact on our debate and contained some welcome and rare arguments from a high-level political leader — changes in the terms of the debate are prerequisites to changes in policy and the value of rhetoric shouldn’t be understated — they’re still just words until his actions become consistent with them.
May 21st, 2009 at 1:15 pmhttp://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2009/05/21/obama/index.html
winddancer Says:
May 21st, 2009 at 2:00 pmI donated to, supported and voted for Obama and like many here, had very high hopes that the last 8 years of a horror story would be brought to an end. But frankly, I’m not seeing that happen. Talk is cheap; only actions really count. If we are opposed to the actions, we need to not be blinded by our loyalty for or hopes about anyone.
======
I voted for Obama and worked in his campaign. You can’t see that happen because of all the GOP hate and fear-mongring that’s going on.
Slappy Bastinado:
You don’t know what the hell you’re talking about. You trolls make me sick with your toxic spew.
May 21st, 2009 at 2:25 pmReality Check & OS: FOCK You trolls that don’t know what the hell you’re talking about!
I voted for Barack Obama because I think that he is sincere about bringing change to America. I also realize that the CHANGE would not come easy and would not come without a fight. I’m a realist – the President doesn’t have an EASY button or a MAGIC button that he can press and make change happen in the blink of an eye. I refuse to listen to people who want to imply or just say Obama is continuing Bush’s policies or back pedaling. That’s just ridiculous. He’s got to go thru the House & the Senate – both of which have obstructionists who are determined to stop progress. It’s unrealistic to expect all of America’s problems with torture & gitmo to be solved in less than 6 months. You’d have to be either crazy or just stupid to think that.
May 21st, 2009 at 2:37 pmTo Bob at #45, here is what sounds Bushist to me:
May 21st, 2009 at 2:44 pm
Alejandro Says:
It depends on who is in charge of the system. Is it Hitler or Stalin? Or is it Nicolas Sarkozy or Fredrik Reinfeldt?
If angels ran the government then socialism wouldn’t be so bad. Actually if everyone were angels then you wouldn’t need government at all.
May 21st, 2009 at 12:39 pm
_____________
That’s some artful dodging indeed – well done!
So, if I’m parsing your response correctly, a bad socialist system run by bad people is is bad, but a good socialist run by good people might be good.
In other words, it’s no different than a pure capitalist system. It depends who is in charge of it – is it Deng Xiaoping or Augusto Pinochet? Or is it the reanimated corpses of Milton Friedman and Dick Cheney?
If zombies ran the government then capitalism wouldn’t be so bad. Actually if everyone were zombies you wouldn’t n-BRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINNNNNSSSSSSSSSS
May 21st, 2009 at 3:15 pmJust what we need. In a prison system already filled to capacity, at last count we have 7 million in our prisons. Over half non violent users or possessors of marijuana. A ridiculous thing to go to prison for. But then the whole system is broken.
In order to bring these men here from Gitmo, we would be forced to do what should have been done before. Release non violent pot users.
Another thing, some of these men may be innocent. Just think of how many of them were taken and jailed. Bounty’s were paid to anyone turning in a so called terrorist. Some towns and villages got rid of those they did not like, by turning in these men. Gitmo had to release hundreds over the years. So all of these men will have to be tried at long last.
Now think of all these men that turn out to be terrorists. Banding together and with other violent men in jail. What a load of dynamite for these guards to control. And the things they will learn from one another. Military guards, civilian guards or a mix of the two? Think of the extra ordinary facilities that will need to be specially built to house these men. Bush has left another mess for this President to clean up. He and Cheney made this debacle and now they both walk away.
It is difficult to use logic in these circumstances. But we have to. We must try them one at a time. It will take years to sort out the mess.
May 21st, 2009 at 3:45 pmCorrection: make that Bob at #34.
May 21st, 2009 at 4:37 pmGitmo is the biggest disgrace to this country since slavery.
May 21st, 2009 at 10:34 pmDoingNuance,
You truly show your ignorance with this statement:
Club Gitmo is a $200mil state of the art detention facility that EVEN IT’S CRITICS admit is being run with the highest standards and regard to the detainees’ well-being, i.e. halal meals, Korans delivered with GLOVES on, excellent medical care, etc.
Get a clue, seriously.
May 21st, 2009 at 11:29 pmTim Vaculik Says:
Sorry, but you are wrong yet again. Critics of the Gitmo detention facility are NOT claiming it is run with the highest standards and best meals — that is what the conservative supporters are claiming, over, and over, and over again.
Critics are certainly not saying that: or, more to the point, can you offer a list of names of those who are clearly Gitmo CRITICS who clearly and specifically make claims as you say?
I thought not.
May 22nd, 2009 at 6:56 amThe idiot Obami is making a mess of this country along with the lying Peelosi.
May 22nd, 2009 at 4:23 pm