Obama: Existing U.S. Institutions Can ‘Work Through And Punish’ Bush’s ‘Violations Of Our Laws’
Obama: Existing U.S. Institutions Can ‘Work Through And Punish’ Bush’s ‘Violations Of Our Laws’
President Obama has repeatedly discussed the need to “look forward” when it comes to examining the Bush administration’s torture program. But in March, he did not rule out prosecutions of the Bush lawyers who authorized enhanced interrogations, saying he would leave prosecutions up to the discretion of Attorney General Eric Holder.
Today, during his much-anticipated speech on national security policy at the National Archives, Obama addressed lingering questions about his views on a truth commission and torture accountability. Obama said that instead of a 9/11-style commission, he favors an investigation of “abuses of our values” done through Congress. Most notably, the President reiterated his view that the DOJ “and our courts can work through and punish any violations of our laws”:
That is what I mean when I say that we need to focus on the future. I recognize that many still have a strong desire to focus on the past. When it comes to the actions of the last eight years, some Americans are angry; others want to re-fight debates that have been settled, most clearly at the ballot box in November. And I know that these debates lead directly to a call for a fuller accounting, perhaps through an Independent Commission.
I have opposed the creation of such a Commission because I believe that our existing democratic institutions are strong enough to deliver accountability. The Congress can review abuses of our values, and there are ongoing inquiries by the Congress into matters like enhanced interrogation techniques. The Department of Justice and our courts can work through and punish any violations of our laws.
Watch it:
In his confirmation hearings, Holder flatly said that “no one is above the law. … There are obligations that we have as a result of treaties that we have signed — obligations, obviously, in the Constitution.”
The Senate Intelligence Committee is already pursuing an investigation into interrogation of detainees, having examined the treatment of two “high value” detainees. “We have adopted a scope of work; we have hired independent staff. They are intelligence professionals and we will be doing this look back, which will probably take 6, 8 months,” Chairwoman Dianne Feinstein (D-CA) said.
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I like Obama and voted for him. I support him. But I have to admit, things are getting a little weird.
Maybe now it is time to get a little tougher and do what is right, not what is nice. Especially since former Vice President Darth Vader has become so vocal in defending the previous administration’s positions. That would seem to push this administration into investigations and possible prosecutions.
Since the majority of the public voted for a change, give it to them and do what is right.
May 21st, 2009 at 12:37 pmDon’t hold your breath about congress investigating anything, they are corporate bought, spineless jellyfish whose only goal is to keep their job and their paychecks.
If they do care about rule of law, which I doubt, then Bush and Cheney and Crew should have been brought up on War Crimes charges on day one.
Fcuk the Republic Fascist Party
May 21st, 2009 at 12:37 pmI have opposed the creation of such a Commission because I believe that our existing democratic institutions are strong enough to deliver accountability. President Obama
I can’t help but believe that this issue will ultimately RESULT in a ’special prosecutor’ or at least the DoJ investigating TORTURE so that Obama does not have to appear as though he PROMOTED it, and who [all of them] is investigated and what transpires after those investigations. The further away from congress this stays, the better the result since congress can never seem to do anything of importance in a timely manner or actually obtain a ‘worthy’ result with due diligence being accomplished.
May 21st, 2009 at 12:39 pmWell, i just disagree with how the President is going about it, but I also know he’s a fairly good politician. In his mind, not starting a high profile independent investigation will keep his reputation clean as a ‘by the book’ non-partisan President who is just a cog in the great 3 branches system. However, he also identifies as a pragmatist, supposedly, so leaving investigation to Congress usually leaves anything so highly politicized and parsed that an investigation might lose effectiveness. But time will tell, I guess.
May 21st, 2009 at 12:39 pmI hope you’re right, Madas. but there’s a fine line between faith in very intricate political maneuvering and just blatant inaction/mishandling of one of the most serious smears on the U.S. in recent history.
May 21st, 2009 at 12:44 pmObama’s speech was excellent. He covered many areas regarding the ‘detainees’ issues. His description of what has been done so far as a ‘mess’ is totally accurate. I like what he said that he is not willing to transfer this mess to another administration.
May 21st, 2009 at 12:44 pmHe made very good points in his speech ,and he made them with clarity.
Cheney speech on the other hand did not bring anything new…the same old talk of ‘enhancing techniques’ done under Bush administration that saved thousands of lives.
Cheney tried to paint Obama as a president who does not care about security of this country, but Cheney failed in his effort.
With daughter Lizzie now on MSNBC talking about ‘daddy dearest speech’ and how much she supports him [despite knowing he is a sadist who authorized torture], she is acting as though every word he stated is TRUTH AND FACT with NO FEAR MONGERING involved. And yet, every word spoken by him was aimed at keeping his reputation clean, trying to avoid federal prison and baiting the public with an OVERLOAD OF FEAR once again. As though 8 years of their fear crap wasn’t enough for us all.
Did any of you DUCT TAPE YOUR WINDOWS [like that was really gonna help with a dirty bomb] in case the terrorists are getting ready to attack? After all, we are NOT safe with Obama in charge. That is the single most message he wants all Americans to take from his speech.
May 21st, 2009 at 12:45 pm@5
Sidestepping? That was actually very straight forward. Hes not judge dredd ffs.
May 21st, 2009 at 12:46 pmSort of on-topic: I’m hating how even NPR is framing the Obama/Cheney speeches- as if they represent this 50/50 split of Americans on the issue, and that Obama is “struggling” to maintain credibility on the issues around torture and detainees. Let’s not forget that every poll out there overwhelmingly shows that the American people are with the President. Polls are polls, yes, but they have some credibility with these consistent findings for months. Cheney’s polling is almost ridiculous.
May 21st, 2009 at 12:47 pmThere is going to be so much happen in the next 6-8 months that this will all be forgotten…….Obama knows it….just rhetoric for the day….move on, move on………
May 21st, 2009 at 12:48 pmVanWinkle65 Says:
“…is anyone really surprised by this?”
Surprised by what, your continued spamming of this site? Please do us all a favor and keep your privacy to yourself!
May 21st, 2009 at 12:49 pmCongressional hearings aren’t going to do a damned bit of good until the Democrats grow a spine and stop allowing Bush sycophants to ignore subpoenas and/or allowing them to testify behind closed doors not under oath, like they did with Rove recently.
May 21st, 2009 at 12:49 pmI understand Obama’s belief that “our existing democratic institutions are strong enough to deliver accountability.”
But Obama also claims he doesn’t want the process of accounatbility to distract us from other important matters that need to be addressed.
Doesn’t he see that these multiple chaotic and disjointed “investigations” in the house and senate is what is backfiring in terms of there being a constant stream of distractions and preoccupations with these matters?
If there was a truth commission, the sensationalism of the process would and could be better contained and managed. A truth commission would make it LESS distracting.
May 21st, 2009 at 12:52 pmSlappyBastinado Says:
“move on, move on………”
Yes please troll, please take your own adviceand “move on” to another site.
May 21st, 2009 at 12:52 pm“The Department of Justice and our courts can work through and punish any violations of our laws.” In the meantime, round up the usual suspects, pull their passports and prep them for their favorite techniques.
May 21st, 2009 at 12:52 pmRealness Says:
I hope you’re right, Madas. but there’s a fine line between faith in very intricate political maneuvering and just blatant inaction/mishandling of one of the most serious smears on the U.S. in recent history.
Realness, I can’t help but believe this is the strategy he has adopted and he is extremely intelligent, enough to know he does not want to be PORTRAYED by the public or history as the person who set the investigations in motion. I’d rather have Holder and DoJ handling this than the jellyfish in congress, and I think since Obama is a master chess player, he is allowing it all to unfold behind the scenes wherever it goes.
May 21st, 2009 at 12:54 pmRealness Says:
Sort of on-topic: I’m hating how even NPR is framing the Obama/Cheney speeches- as if they represent this 50/50 split of Americans on the issue, and that Obama is “struggling” to maintain credibility on the issues around torture and detainees.
NPR is nothing like it used to be. Bush stacked the board with right wingers and they have been taking what is supposed to be a PUBLIC radio station into Fixed News territory. It’s time for President Obama to reverse this process. Sack all the right wingers on the board and take the station back to a public radio station. If necessary cut their funding until it’s fixed.
May 21st, 2009 at 12:54 pmEric Holder, if it’s true that no one is above the law, and you can walk and chew gum at the same time, appoint a special prosecutor NOW.
May 21st, 2009 at 12:55 pmthis post about cheney’s weak speech has some good links refuting the bush administration lies and an embedded video compilation from youtube of the main malefactors:
http://blahgblog.wordpress.com/2009/05/21/five-deferment-dick-takes-terrorism-more-seriously-than-you/
May 21st, 2009 at 12:59 pmWhy did CNN give Cheney air time?
May 21st, 2009 at 12:59 pmThe rightwingers don’t believe in the fairness doctrine.
Let them play by their own rules.
The general idea that the mechanisms for dealing with these issues are already in place is correct, but I also agree with others here that Congress, by itself at least, should not be trusted with the task. I think they would all rather sweep it under the rug than risk losing political capital.
May 21st, 2009 at 12:59 pmConservativeForProgress Says:
Once again, Obama has spoken/read a lot of words without actually saying anything.
May 21st, 2009 at 12:55 pm
Once again, you contribute nothing.
May 21st, 2009 at 1:00 pm.
Obama Is Said to Consider Preventive Detention Plan
By SHERYL GAY STOLBERG
Published: May 20, 2009
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/21/us/politics/21obama.html
But to be honest, he’s just considering the concept of indefinite detention without legal recourse…
… The TROLLS should like this. NO?
America got a new dog in the White House, ain’t that something!?!?
.
May 21st, 2009 at 1:02 pmI find the approach to be understandable. the republic fascist party is looking into every word and every action (mustard, anyone?) to find something to really pin on the President. They were, and still are, hoping to get a real big fat, “SEE! SEE! He is totally PARTISAN, and just going after the conservatives!!! He doesn’t stand for ALL of America, just the non-conservatives!” — etc.. Rove probably has quite a few inflammatory speeches along that line all ready to go…. but they don;t have their ‘issue’ yet to apply it to. He’s trying to avoid giving them that issue, because, I believe, President Obama is actually TRYING to be a President for ALL of America, not just one party or faction. The difficulty is that the Republic fascist party is ENTIRELY self-centered, and ONLY accepts its own party and party members: since the President is NOT a republic fascist, they want to dissmiss him as being partisan (which is also a matter of a HUGE mass-projection syndrome).
Is it immoral to shout “Democrat” in a crowded Republican meeting?
May 21st, 2009 at 1:02 pm“I have opposed the creation of such a Commission because I believe that our existing democratic institutions are strong enough to deliver accountability.” – As a lawyer he should use president to prove this point… but alas there is none.
“The Congress can review abuses of our values, and there are ongoing inquiries by the Congress into matters like enhanced interrogation techniques.” – Can but will not! and WTF is this “enhanced interrogation techniques.” Crap????
“The Department of Justice and our courts can work through and punish any violations of our laws.” – again, Can but will not.
Just issue your Pardons, tear up what is left of the Constitution and lets move on…
May 21st, 2009 at 1:02 pmConservativeForProgress Says he blows goats.
Fcuk off idiot
May 21st, 2009 at 1:04 pmConservativeForProgress Says:
Once again, Obama has spoken/read a lot of words without actually saying anything.
I have come to the conclusion that you, C4P, are so phucking JEALOUS that new our POTUS is so vibrant, intelligent and such a phenom speaker that you can’t tolerate the fact that Obama speaks in words that you can’t UNDERSTAND. When your ‘king jerk W’ was in office, you were able to understand his idiocy since he used first grader language while mispronouncing most words in a speech and you had to keep a dictionary with you when he spoke so as to decipher what he was trying to say – which was all LIES!
May 21st, 2009 at 1:04 pmMind you, congress has no interest in investigating, as such an investigation MUST lead to … members of congress being complicit.
Not saying I agree — just that I think I understand the ‘why’.
May 21st, 2009 at 1:05 pmObama seems well aware of the toothless nature of Congresscritters. Without a willing and capable DOJ no investigation will be forthcoming. The Regressives know this as well hence their fear of Dawn Johnsen being appointed to Obama’s OLC. She is outspoken about the illegality of the Bush Torture Program and has discussed prosecutions for those involved.
May 21st, 2009 at 1:05 pmMadas- alright, I’ll try to breathe and hope for the ‘chess master theory.’ stranger things have happened.
Bilbo- yeah, NPR has been pissing me off, and the biggest joke is that it’s still painted as a left-wing MSM site. It’s as if they can’t give the objective reporting of people’s progressive viewpoint for fear of being called out as left-wing, even when that progressive viewpoint is a majority one on a given issue. The right has controlled the messaging so tightly that NPR’s self-conscioiusness is making it sub-par.
C4P- c’mon, lighten up. Aren’t you happy he’s at least using real words and grammar? Things are looking up!
May 21st, 2009 at 1:05 pmi posted this last november:
Justice after Bush:
Prosecuting an outlaw administration
By Scott Horton
http://www.harpers.org/archive/2008/12/0082303
(sorry, subscription only – i bought for train ride)
“[…]
Given the political situation in the United States, it seems clear that the last option [COMMISSION OF INQUIRY] is the best. […] Such investigations have had a mixed record of success, but they are the best means available to the U.S. political system for investigating issues that raise broad public concern but cannot be satisfactorily delved into by such established bodies as the FBI or a congressional oversight committee.
Investigative commissions can provide truth. They can establish an important record. They can reaffirm important taboos. But they cannot provide justice. For that they are simply a fist step. The second step […] is a formal prosecution, most likely by an executive-appointed special prosecutor. In this model […] the commission would find the facts, weigh them, and, if the facts warrant, make a formal recommendation for the appointment of a prosecutor […]. Even if the commission were to determine that no prosecutable crimes had occurred […] it would perform the absolutely necessary function of educating the public. If, on the other hand, the commission were to determine that criminal investigation was appropriate, it already would have created essential public support for such action.
From what source would the commission draw its authority? The most obvious place would be the executive branch itself. […] The problem with presidential commissions is that they can easliy be accused of covering up for previous administrations or, conversely, of seeking “victor’s justice”.
The alternative is a hybrid – an executive-legislative commission that would be created by an act of Congress but would draw also on the authority of the president. This alternative typically involves an elaborate process for the appointment of commissioners by both the White House and the congressional leadership. [example is 9/11 Commission] […] In general, the presidential commission seems a smoother, less legally problematic model, whereas the hybrid commission is cumbersome but more likely to command broad public support and confidence from the outset.
[…]”
so, where are we with this?
May 21st, 2009 at 1:06 pmSnap on Cheney, well done Pres. Obama. There are other avenues to address the wrong doings of the Cheney era. Do it fairly clean, and as legal documents emerge, slowly but surely, the American people will see exactly what the Cheney Adminstration, hmmmmmm, sorry, the Bush Adminstration did in the name of America for GREED. Well Cheney, his crew and his cronies did get the Iragis’ oil. It was not about democracy, it wasn’t about terrorism nor Saddam nor Al Queda, it was about money and power. AND MOST OF ALL IT WASN’T ABOUT KEEPING US SAFE.
Cheney is trying to protect his a$$, period.
May 21st, 2009 at 1:07 pmGood now go get em!
May 21st, 2009 at 1:08 pmcontd:
“[...] And through it all, as if to underscore its contempt for any authority but its own, the administration issued more than a hundred carefully crafted “signing statements” that raised pervasive doubt about whether the president would even accede to bills that he himself had signed into law.
No prior administration as been so systematically or so brazenly lawless. Yet it is no simple matter ro prosecute a former president of his senior officers. There is no precedent for such a prosecution, and even if there was, the very breadth and audacity of the administration’s activities would make the process so complex as to defy systems of justice far less fragmented than our own. But that only means choices must be made. Indeed, in weighing the enormity of the administration’s transgressions against the realistic prospect of justice, it is possible to determine not only the crime that calls most clearly for prosecution but also the crime that is most likely to be successfully prosecuted. In both cases, that crime is torture.
There can be no doubt that torture is illegal. [...]“
May 21st, 2009 at 1:09 pmkaty,
May 21st, 2009 at 1:10 pm… Turning heads and coughing?
If anyone seriously believes “The Obama King” and his lying “sack of sh*t” Attorney General – Eric “the court jester” Holder intends to actually prosecute the Bush/Cheney Criminal Cartel they are sadly mistaken.
Obama is a strong supporter of “endless war” as well as torture just like his war criminal predecessor was. No changes happening here!… just more of the same…
May 21st, 2009 at 1:10 pmI can’t imagine being such a coward that I would be scared to close Gitmo and use our system of justice to try, convict, and imprison those that are guilty.
Of course, I can’t imagine being such a coward that I would be a Republican either.
May 21st, 2009 at 1:10 pmNice one @26, Cagey!
May 21st, 2009 at 1:10 pmCFP thinks that speech that is over his head intellectually is “just words”
too funny
right wingers are ignorant cowards
May 21st, 2009 at 1:12 pmoh and almost forgot. say he did ride in on horseback, pistols blazing to prosecute your republiclowns. Instead of your current idle irrelevant threats, then you would accuse the president of a huge power grab. Or have you bushies just gotten used to that.
May 21st, 2009 at 1:14 pmmstar, please link some facts to your screed, or are you just another idiot rethug?
May 21st, 2009 at 1:15 pmOops, just answered my own question about mstar.
May 21st, 2009 at 1:16 pmmstar57,
I mean, there is a LOT to be frustrated at, obviously, and there’s lots of people that voice it on here, but you firing off a condescending post is not contributing to the conversation, and it looks kind of…trollish.
May 21st, 2009 at 1:18 pmThis is bullsh¡t!
They are talking this to death, as I predicted.
Obama will not take the lead in this and, after his telecom immunity capitulation and alignment of bush policies on State Secrets, Abuse photos, DADT and FISA, I frankly don’t believe a word the man says.
There are treaties we’ve signed that compel immediate investigation into allegations and evidence (which we are rife with) of torture. (Reagan signed the damn thing). So what do we have so far besides the effort to sweep bush’s crimes under the rug?
*crickets chirping*
We violate the most core principles of our Republic and all Obama and the dems, the ruling, promising, stern letter party can do is make more promises and whip up more sh¡t sandwiches.
Dump lying Pelosi. Fire Reid, Put Kucinich and Feingold in their seats, put Obama on notice that this will not stand, and let’s get some bright sunlight into this faux-transparency charade that first bush/cheney, and now Obama is spinning.
What.A.Disgrace.
May 21st, 2009 at 1:19 pmI’m more than a little annoyed that Obama won’t use the word “torture” when he’s talking about specific acts, but instead uses “enhanced in-terror-gation techniques”. He’s just not being honest. As a country, we need to go through a 12 step program concerning torture. It’s ok to say we’re better now, but if we don’t do a fearless self-inventory and make amends where ever possible, we will slip into the same old bad behaviors when we’re stressed again.
May 21st, 2009 at 1:20 pmhanshiro,
It’s not up to Obama, it’s up to Holder. Sure, I want this done yesterday, but I’m willing to give it a little more time. Not much more time, but some.
May 21st, 2009 at 1:21 pmangels31…You’re the perfect example of an Obama teenie bopper – Koolaid slurping Obama groupie…and an all around brainless idiot!! Try reading Greenwald and countless other intelligent clear thinking people and you might someday have a clue! Oh that’s right, I forgot!..shame on me…groupies always drink the rancid koolaid, and will always be an Obama cheerleader! You f**king imbecile!!
May 21st, 2009 at 1:23 pmmstar57 Says:
May 21st, 2009 at 1:23 pm
Flag it.
May 21st, 2009 at 1:24 pmmstar sounds like a cheney groupie
May 21st, 2009 at 1:24 pm48. Zooey Says: It’s not up to Obama, it’s up to Holder. Sure, I want this done yesterday, but I’m willing to give it a little more time. Not much more time, but some.
I am not. Obama has already sided with bush in telecom immunity.
Obama baldly led the charge to forever cover up bush’s crimes. Color me incredulous when it comes to Obama and his belief in the “rule of law” and the Constitution. He started out his run violating both.
Obama has also obstructed FOIA demands such as the photos and his “We must not look to the past” bongwater was crap!
It was also a clear signal that Obama is pwned. We tortured and beat people to death and Obama and the dems, who promised and suckered us into believing all this ‘change’ ad copy, are displaying this ‘helpless’ whine-fest and not doing squat!
Pelosi’s call for justice and Conyers’ “Constitution in Crisis” were but sales literature to gull people into electing them to office only to be told, time and again, “We…er..can’t do that either…soooorry.”
May they never know peace of mind for this. Never.
May 21st, 2009 at 1:37 pmYou have several excellent points, hanshiro. I’m afraid we will have to agree to disagree — for now.
May 21st, 2009 at 1:39 pm“A despairing country elected a president who promised change. Americans arrived from every state to witness in bitter cold Obama’s swearing in ceremony. The mall was packed in a way that it has never been for any other president.
The people’s good will toward Obama and the expectations they had for him were sufficient for Obama to end the gratuitous wars and enact major reforms. But Obama has deserted the people for the interests. He is relying on his non-threatening demeanor and rhetoric to convince the people that change is underway.”
-Paul Craig Roberts
http://www.counterpunch.org/roberts05212009.html
I’ve been reading Roberts for many years. Although he worked for Raygun, he was harsher on BushCo than nearly anyone else AS IT WAS HAPPENING. Don’t really buy Obama morphing into Darth…but the jest of the article is spot on.
May 21st, 2009 at 1:40 pm54. Zooey Says: You have several excellent points, hanshiro. I’m afraid we will have to agree to disagree — for now.
I hope the people who’re being detained and tortured right now at Bagram, denied Habeas Corpus by Obama, can survive your waiting period. Wonder how many more are waiting too…
May 21st, 2009 at 1:42 pmReally though, Mstar was recommending Glenn Greenwald’s blog, which is very good. This is not a Cheney groupie move. It’s not hard to throw anyone in this group on TP, because that’s where most of the trolls come from, but Mstar is not of that ilk, however you disagree with the sentiments.
this is a disagreement within the left camp: Obama’s inaction and its consequences, or Obama’s political maneuverings that will eventually get some good done. I actually suggest reading Greenwald’s blog about the speech because I believe there are real consequences that I don’t think people on the left want: a continuing consensus of American exceptionalism and real contradiction with our own laws and the normalizing of that behavior in our government.
We should have this discussion in a sane debate, not in ad hominem attacks or whatever. The rightwing trolls are bad enough.
May 21st, 2009 at 1:45 pmAccording to what Obama said in his speech today that only 3 detainees have been tried and convicted in a span of over seven and half years,and many many others sent back homes after spending years in our custody.
May 21st, 2009 at 2:10 pmMr. Cheney:
“That’s not a success”.
I still have hope, but my hope is starting to waiver.
I hope that Obama has been employing the old rope-a-dope strategy in which he draws out a massive public DEMAND for investigations & prosecutions of Bushco torture programs.
I hope that he is being smart in avoiding the public perception that, by his encouraging torture prosecutions, he is engaging in partisan prosecutions.
I hope that Obama is doing all of this — drawing out public demands, avoiding partisan prosecutions, feeding the public a regular diet of new information on torture, etc.
I hope, I hope, I hope. But I must admit my hope is dimming a bit.
May 21st, 2009 at 2:26 pmWe still need to keep Obama honest and we can’t be afraid to criticize him, even in the face of right wing smears and attacks.
That said, he’s much better than the Bushies.
http://blahgblog.wordpress.com/2009/05/21/five-deferment-dick-takes-terrorism-more-seriously-than-you/
May 21st, 2009 at 2:37 pmWhile we wait & wait…
Can we organize a campaign to get more international voices and legal institutions to demand U.S. compliance with the Geneva Accords and Anti-Torture Treaty?
During the anti-ballistic missile struggle and nuclear disarmament efforts during the cold war there was support from citizens and eventual governments abroad upon our and their governments. Today with the internet it should be a whole lot easier to mobilize a global civil consensus to help Obama and the Dems obey our own laws and treaties.
May 21st, 2009 at 3:18 pmI heard Obama saying that he was not personally going to work on punishing torturers and their abettors, but that there were institutions in place that could and most likely would do so: Congress and the DOJ. Do you want him to act the bully, like the previous administration, ordering Congress and DOJ to come up with the ‘right’ answers? Give it time. Besides: I am fearful that if they do try to do a lot of show trial stuff, the Nixon problems will come back to haunt us: the Nixon scandals produced Cheney and Rumsfeld. Even though the legal decisions were going against Nixon, in their dark hearts C and R swore ‘never again’ should a president be subject to limits on his law-breaking authority. Obama is playing it just right, not politicizing it. Write your congressmen.
May 21st, 2009 at 3:29 pmFirst of all we must go back to using real language and not the double speak of the Bush era. It is not enhanced techniques. It is torture. If we cannot even use the right word, and we cannot face the challenge of prosecution of the criminals, then we are worse off then we know. It was always torture. It was used to cover Bush’s ass for an illegal war. And there was no ticking bomb scenario as an excuse. Otherwise it would not have been done 80 odd times to one man and over 187 times to another. It did not work. And it was done after the information was given. This torture was so they could try and force someone to give a link from Saddam to 9/11 that was not there.
If there was a ticking bomb some of us would be dead. To torture that many times took a matter of weeks, not hours. And it did not work. These terrorists are taught to withstand torture. Just as some of our military are taught as far back as the Korean war. We had to learn to withstand what was done to our captured military by the chinese communists.
It is torture. Obama may have trouble with doing what the law and the Constitution says he must, but he is wrong. Wrong.
May 21st, 2009 at 3:31 pmSeems like nothing the President says or does will EVER be good enough for some people. The way some folks are going on and on about all of this – you’d think Obama was the architect behind 2 wars, torture and the creation of Gitmo. Constructive criticism of President Obama is good but this is just insane.
May 21st, 2009 at 3:45 pmMadasHelinVA Says:
Did any of you DUCT TAPE YOUR WINDOWS [like that was really gonna help with a dirty bomb] in case the terrorists are getting ready to attack?
I haven’t duct taped my windows, but I bought 2 cases back in 2002, just like those guverment fellows told me to.
May 21st, 2009 at 4:10 pmI’m waiting and ready!
Cheney and cronies know they will get away with their war crimes. They know they are still the ones in charge.
May 21st, 2009 at 4:32 pmViolation of law? What about Obama’s violation of contract law in regards to Chrysler debt holders? Um. I guess that doesn’t count.
May 21st, 2009 at 4:40 pmGeorge Bush’s envelope that was left to OBAMA on his first day in the oval office….
Dear Obama,
COME AFTER ME, YOU WILL NEVER FINISH YOUR TERM.
Sign,
GWB
IS THAT WHY WE WONT PROSICUTE OBAMA????? IS THAT WHY WE SHOULD LOOK FORWARD?????
STOP WITH THIS BULL OBAMA, I WANT AN INVESTIGATION AS DOES THE AMERICAN PEOPLE!!!!
May 21st, 2009 at 4:54 pmoldgranny Says:
Why did CNN give Cheney air time?
It is called TV ratings. Never forget that.
May 21st, 2009 at 5:24 pmObama is a strong supporter of “endless war” as well as torture just like his war criminal predecessor was. No changes happening here!… just more of the same…
Okay do you understand how war works? Apparently not. He promised to end the war in Iraq responsibly which means he cannot just pull them out and say screw you to Iraq. Bush messed it up and Obama has to fix it.
Don’t pretend to know anything of war tactics when you probably haven’t even served. There’s a lot more to this.
May 21st, 2009 at 6:05 pmI didn’t buy duct tape. I bought two books on chemical/biological weapons, read them, and said “pish”. I almost forgot about that bit of fear mongering. At the time, I was far more worried about my paranoid neighbors than I was about terrorists. Glad most of U.S. have gotten over it.
May 21st, 2009 at 6:34 pmPresident George W. Obama wants to leave a legacy that his sucessors can follow. He wants a legal way to detain people without charges “within the rule of law.” Seems like a good idea to me – it worked out well for the kings and other nobility in the middle ages – no reason why we can’t make habeus corpus subject to the “state secrets” privilege. He already has 4 votes on the Supreme Court for that position – all he needs is one more person who will vote for Presidential power.
May 21st, 2009 at 10:48 pmI like President Obama, but I find his idea of “preventative detention” reeks of fascism. George W. Bush style of fascism.
What’s up, Barack?
May 22nd, 2009 at 12:38 amBut you are the party in power now. Do what has to be done.
May 22nd, 2009 at 10:27 amHe’s finding out that running a country is more involved than just campaign speeches. Now if he would come off of campaign mode and enter Presidential mode and read some of the stuff he’s been signing then we will all be a bit better off, don’t you think? How much does it cost the American People every time he makes another campaign flight in Airforce One?
How much co/2 does that thing put out anyway?
One thing though, he’s a good spender.
May 22nd, 2009 at 10:32 amI love it!
May 22nd, 2009 at 10:33 amWhat a hypocrite you are Zooey. How many of RHF’s posts have you flagged. Many of her posts are ten times as bad.
I see. Shame on me. You disagree with mstar57 and that makes the difference. Ya right. It’s tough being you isn’t it?
May 22nd, 2009 at 10:38 amYou need new material little girl. This from the TP bigot herself.
How off topic can you get? You people are constantly complaining about Trolls going off topic when it is you who direct the discussions.
I look at all the posts here and can only find a few that are on topic. I don’t want to hear any of you hypocrites complain about others being off topic.
Now to get back on topic, there will be no investigations of anyone from the Bush Presidency. Obama knows that if he opens that Pandora’s Box that he might be next in 4 years.
That is why he is looking forward, not for the Country but toward his own preservation. I’m surprised that all you enlightened “Progressives” here can’t see that.
It’s Politics, pure and simple.
May 22nd, 2009 at 10:49 amObama has a problem right now. If and when he closes Gitmo and sends any of those prisoners to a country that in any way abuses them, then he is complicit in that act. Why? because he has control over the treatment those people get while at Gitmo and giving that control up to others who would abuse them would be his fault.
He would be up for investigation at the end of his term. So there will be no investigations in this country unless it is complete and includes everyone involved, including Pelosi and the others in Congress who knew what was going on. It’s not just Pelosi you know. Many in Congress were also briefed about what was happening.
Sorry, no investigations IMO.
May 22nd, 2009 at 11:08 amDavid Remes, the Attorney for 18 detainees at Gitmo stated today that Torture and Beatings continue to this day at Gitmo.
Yes, he was quite specific in his accusations. He also stated that the military and the current Government are covering this up.
Lets see if I can bring this together for you folks.
Obama = CIC = leader of the Military = continued beatings at Gitmo = TORTURE.
May 22nd, 2009 at 2:40 pmObama said he wouldn’t do anything to endanger the American people. Is not a) releasing Gitmo detainees into our country b) jailing them on our soil (many a criminal has led criminal sprees from the cell c) allowing them the same rights as our citizens and allowing them welfare (take the bread out of my mouth even) endagering us? He speaks of “fear mongers,” um, we have just cause based on events of the past, not to mention the latest fear inducing Air Force One flyover NYC and four suspects caught in NYC attempting to carry out a “holy war against the USA” sighting “anger over Muslim killings in Afghanistan and Pakistan”. Cough, I believe we have just cause for fear, indeed. This is his typical modus operandum…slough things off like they aren’t any big deal..well Obama and Congress, we know they are!
May 23rd, 2009 at 12:50 am