Romney: Obama’s speech was ‘more tortured’ than Bush’s interrogation tactics.
Romney: Obama’s speech was ‘more tortured’ than Bush’s interrogation tactics.
Blogging at The Corner today, Mitt Romney panned President Obama’s speech on national security, saying that Vice President Cheney’s “response” to Obama was “direct, well-reasoned, and convincing.” Romney mocked Obama’s speech condemning torture as being worse than Bush’s torture tactics:
He struggles to explain how he is keeping faith with the liberal advocates who promoted his campaign but in doing so, he breaks faith with the interests of the American people. When it comes to protecting the nation, we have a conflicted president. And his address today was more tortured than the enhanced interrogation techniques he decries.
Obama “said that the last thing he thinks about when he goes to sleep at night is keeping America safe. That’s a big difference with Vice President Cheney — when it came to protecting Americans, he never went to sleep,” Romney concluded. This would be news to Cheney. In October 2007, Cheney dozed off during a briefing on the California wildfires and also during his boss’s farewell address in January 2009. Watch it:
Topic Cloud
ArchivesBlog Roll
So says Mr. Magical Underpants and holder of the Golden Plates.
Mormon is a totally made up religion and a freaking joke.
May 21st, 2009 at 6:17 pmI really hope This Guy is the Republican Presidential Nominee because it would be with such satisfaction to have President Obama intellectually destroy him.
And Myabe he will choose Cheney as his VP
May 21st, 2009 at 6:17 pmSo now Romney is trying standup comedy? Don’t quit your day job, Mitt. Who let the dogs out?
May 21st, 2009 at 6:18 pmRomney, given these comments, is an absolute idiot, with no understanding whatsoever of what torture is. Please, someone, show Romney what it means to be tortured. What a total loser Romney is.
May 21st, 2009 at 6:20 pmWhat else do you expect from a GOP. Never nothing positive, especially when it’s not their own. The GOP can do nothing wrong because they are perfect and Rommey is perfect, like the rest of them. They are the party of GOD. That’s why their party is failing. People now can see thru their Bulls**t.
Pres. Obama and they know it is keeping us safe. Cheney’s problem is that he’s trying to stay out of jail.
May 21st, 2009 at 6:22 pmYeah, that’s a winning strategy, Mittens… turn the word “torture” into a freaking punchline.
That’ll burnish your “tough on terror” cred.
May 21st, 2009 at 6:24 pmRomney . . saying that Vice President Cheney’s “response” to Obama was “direct, well-reasoned, and convincing.”
Convincing enough for the American public NOT TO SCREAM OUT TORTURER every time they hear or see him???? I doubt it! But then again Romney has to ’suck up’ since he wants to be POTUS so badly he is willing to spend his entire fortune and suck up even to the likes of Limpballs as well as the DICK to make it occur.
That’s a big difference with Vice President Cheney — when it came to protecting Americans, he never went to sleep,” Romney concluded.
Deprivation of sleep must be the reason he is such a NASTY D*CK as nothing else makes any sense for him being such a SNOTTY A@@ED PR*CK – SO?? and taking ‘naps’ while in ‘his puppet’s’ meetings.
May 21st, 2009 at 6:24 pmI bet he’s been saving that gem for awhile.
May 21st, 2009 at 6:26 pm… something on my mind, gonna put it out here, nothing special… just back from errands…
i hear dorgan on ed and the stories before that… i’ve heard several times from dems that the vote yesterday was not reported correctly, misunderstood the meaning, and so on…
“we just want to see a plan, and so on…”
THEN WHY THE HELL PUT IT UP TO A VOTE.?.!.?
it’s like they know they f’d up but have to explain that stupid scaredy-cat vote, saying it was about wanting to see a plan…
oh well… just a stupid move imo…
May 21st, 2009 at 6:28 pmBlogging at The Corner today, Mitt Romney panned President Obama’s speech on national security, saying that Vice President Cheney’s “response” to Obama was “direct, well-reasoned, and convincing.”
Wait just a cotton-picking minute. I have it on excellent authority (one of our trolls) that this was in no way a “response” to Obama’s speech because it had been scheduled well in advance.
Mittens, you need to check in with Troll Central.
May 21st, 2009 at 6:30 pmAnd his address today was more tortured than the enhanced interrogation techniques he decries.-mittens
they aren’t even clever…
May 21st, 2009 at 6:30 pmRomney/Jindal 2012!
May 21st, 2009 at 6:32 pmOT:
What is going on? Has our Turkish buddy joined forces with the privacy center? Suddenly we have to be subjected to a lame excuse for a port in English prior to the standard offering of the Sesli Sorbet….
Maybe if Borgen can stop pretending to be Dutch Harbors deadliest ctch we can convince him to pay to end the world’s hunger for Turkish porn….
May 21st, 2009 at 6:32 pmDick Cheney doesn’t sleep.
He passes out.
He’s an alcoholic.
May 21st, 2009 at 6:32 pmCouldn’t be any worse than McCain/Palin ‘08… could it?
May 21st, 2009 at 6:35 pmThere’s not enough bullshit in the world that could ever cover up the misdeeds of the Bush-Cheney-Rice-Rumsfeld and other bozosl regime.
May 21st, 2009 at 6:35 pmport ought to be post of course and the rest of the typos are easily deciphered.
BTW JohnM I think that might be sort of amusing. Far less amusing than my preferred Palin/Bachmann but still amusing enough…
May 21st, 2009 at 6:35 pmIt never sleeps! AHHHHHHHHHHHHH!
That’s not an endorsement—it’s the stuff of horror.
May 21st, 2009 at 6:38 pmHey Romney,
Your buddy Dick Cheney and that puppet he played for 8 years, George Bush Jr., slept everyday for the first 9 months of that administration, right up to and including 9-11. So, let’s cut the crap. Those two clowns that you’re so proud of invaded the wrong country after September 11th. How stupid is that! War on terrorism, give me a break. Bunch of panzy asses, scared of some raghead hiding in the mountains. You guys on the right are pathetic.
May 21st, 2009 at 6:39 pmAnd his address today was more tortured than the ‘enhanced interrogation techniques’ he decries. Mittens stated
Guess the entire troup of R’s are all too scared they may be sent to ‘torturers prison’ if they use the word ‘torture’ when it comes to their fellow torturers using EITs. Saying ‘enhanced interrogation techniques’ sounds so much kinder even though it means the same thing as torture.
The precedence for EITs was set by Bush officials: For its use on Canadian citizen Omar Khadr, the government of Canada added the United States to a list of countries that employ interrogation methods that amount to torture.
May 21st, 2009 at 6:43 pmJohnM Says:
Romney/Jindal 2012!
======
Romney the “mormon” and jindal the “exorcist” yeah right 2012!!
We already have already had a “dumb” and “dumber” administration for the last 8 years. And now you want a “stupid” and “stupidest” administration?
NO WAY, IT WON’T HAPPEN!!!
Romney aren’t you and Cantor suppose to be on a “listening tour?”
May 21st, 2009 at 6:43 pmWhilst you scold Obama for his tortured logic, Morman Mitt, can you also explain to him how you think his skin color is the Mark of Cain. Thanks.
May 21st, 2009 at 6:43 pmJohnM can’t fathom that we torture but he embraces a politician who drove the Devil out of a woman. Great mind, John.
May 21st, 2009 at 6:47 pmWhat a group of clowns: Romney, Palin, Plumber, Santorum, Gingrich, Jindal, McCain, Boner, Cantor, Perry, on and on and on…
‘Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right
May 21st, 2009 at 6:47 pmHere I am, stuck in the middle with you’.
maybe we misunderstood
maybe Romney just thinks trying to use logic to support his positions is akin to torture
May 21st, 2009 at 6:47 pmDick Cheney was awake, except on 9/11, but that doesn’t count because … well, why is that Romney?
May 21st, 2009 at 6:48 pm**Oops, I should say that Jindal claims to be an exorcist and that’s just marvy with JohnM et al.
May 21st, 2009 at 6:49 pmreligion is a mental disorder
it’s cruel that we don’t get these people the help they need
May 21st, 2009 at 6:50 pmWhere is the evidence that torutre has ’saved lives’? If it’s so ‘right’, why did they deny it before claiming that it works? If it is the ‘right thing to do’ why did we help prosecute for it in the past? Why believe someone who has been proven wrong time and again?
May 21st, 2009 at 6:51 pmRomney: Obama’s speech was ‘more tortured’ than Bush’s interrogation tactics.
Blogging at The Corner today, Mitt Romney panned President Obama’s speech on national security, saying that Vice President Cheney’s “response” to Obama was “direct, well-reasoned, and convincing.” Romney mocked Obama’s speech condemning torture as being worse than Bush’s torture tactics
}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
Cheney’s response to Obama. Cheney was covering his fat a##.
May 21st, 2009 at 6:51 pmI am not sure, but the narcissism of Cheney is getting out of hand. On second thought, the narcissism of the Republican party is getting out of hand.
Please, if they had ANY evidence that torture had saved lives, they would have had it plastered on every media outlet 24/7 during the 2008 campaign.
Obviously Cheney is lying.
May 21st, 2009 at 6:53 pmWould you like to know why the last 8 years was so screwed up? Because the Bush/Cheney Loyalists couldn’t listen past a paragraph of information without getting bored, passing out, or falling to the ground crying because their brain hurt!
Thankfully, it was the intellectual Americans who voted President Obama in. We can listen to more than a paragraph of info.
May 21st, 2009 at 6:58 pmok, rhf, I guess you got me on a technicality there
the point remains: holy rollers need help
May 21st, 2009 at 7:02 pmThe “truth” of it is, if they repeat things long and loud enough – without being confronted, condemned and embarrassed for their lies – this version will be the popular historical memory of what happened.
Ultimately, it won’t matter what the record is – but what they are allowed to establish as the record.
Remember? This is the post-reality crowd.
May 21st, 2009 at 7:02 pmStratRat Says:
What a group of clowns: Romney, Palin, Plumber, Santorum, Gingrich, Jindal, McCain, Boner, Cantor, Perry, on and on and on…
And Boner wears a rug – I saw the light shine on it just right the other day and could tell immediately that it was a rug – expensive, but a rug nonethless! Would love for someone to ‘accidentally’ get oo close and pull it off just to see if he is tanned under it.
May 21st, 2009 at 7:02 pmEw!!!!—tan lines on his head!
May 21st, 2009 at 7:04 pmPsst, no offense, and I agree that Mormonism is ridiculous, but all religions are made up. It’s just a question of who made them up, and when.
May 21st, 2009 at 7:06 pmRomney needs to just STFU. Ignorant, religious fanatic.
May 21st, 2009 at 7:16 pmObama would chew Romney up and spit him out. Bring it!
earlier, i heard jonathon alter tell ed of an idea he’d heard,
that since they quit using torture in ‘05, that means for the whole 2nd bush term, they did not keep up safe!
ha!
May 21st, 2009 at 7:23 pmrepublicans hate facts Says:
——————————————————————————–
JohnM Says:
Romney/Jindal 2012!
Or as we like to call them DUMB and DUMBER…
I’m sure that 21% of America you belong to will LOVE this ticket! Go for it!! ROTFL! ;)
That is because you are a brainwashed moron.
May 21st, 2009 at 7:25 pmNow more than ever, church and state MUST be kept separate. If that’s Obama’s only legacy, I will be forever grateful — and the nation should be, too.
May 21st, 2009 at 7:32 pmThat is because you are a brainwashed moron.
——
May 21st, 2009 at 7:33 pmPlease explain…
This is an out and out lie.
The very EX vp talked more about terror/tortured than President Obama.
Wolf (cnn) did this thing graphic thing where words in each speech were given a largeness value — for instance, buckshot used the word terror a hellof a lot, so the word was the biggest word on his graphic, while the word sorry would be very very very tiny.
STFU teabaggers your stupidity (stupidiness) is showing again.
teabaggers love to lie
May 21st, 2009 at 7:34 pmJohnM – you’re the one who is brainwashed. You 21%ers would rather support Cheney who lied about torture, helped drag our country into two wars and continues to try and keep Americans afraid. You choose to remain ignorant and continue to lie to yourself.
If Cheney & Bush would’ve done their job, Obama wouldn’t be dealing with Gitmo and detainees!!!
May 21st, 2009 at 7:36 pmI’ve seen a mannequin do better stand up comedy.
(Oops… )
May 21st, 2009 at 7:36 pmGuido the Benevolent Torturer Says:
——————————————————————————–
I’d love to see Obama do a smack down on Mitt in debate on any subject.
Romney would crush Obama in a debate about the economy. A man who has run a multi-million dollar company and has a firm grasp of economics against a man who has never had a real job. That would be the ultimate trouncing.
May 21st, 2009 at 7:37 pmJohnM Says:
Can you explain again how Cheney knows more about what techniques are the best for obtaining information from prisoners than actual professional interrogators who seem to universally disagree with Cheney that ‘enhanced interrogation techniques’ (read: torture) are effective, timely or warranted?
Thanks.
May 21st, 2009 at 7:37 pmhormiga brava chavez Says:
——————————————————————————–
JohnM – you’re the one who is brainwashed. You 21%ers would rather support Cheney who lied about torture, helped drag our country into two wars and continues to try and keep Americans afraid. You choose to remain ignorant and continue to lie to yourself.
If Cheney & Bush would’ve done their job, Obama wouldn’t be dealing with Gitmo and detainees!!!
Where does your 21% come from?
May 21st, 2009 at 7:39 pmCan you image being Mitt Stepford’s kids? Most be mortifing to be so lame.
May 21st, 2009 at 7:39 pmHey Johnny, the only economy E-mormony can invigorate is the domestic help at his compound.
And what the f uck is a “real job”?
May 21st, 2009 at 7:40 pmThese repugniscum are turning my stomach – I just can’t stand any of them any more. Their self-serving rhetoric and politicking is unbearable.
May 21st, 2009 at 7:42 pmObama gave a speech today directed to the American public who is being frightened again by the fearmongers on the right who are creating scenarios that will not happen, cannot happen, but they beat the drum and people get frightened — mission accomplished.
So Obama’s speech was directly to the public, to reassure them of what was done before he got to the White House, what he found when he began to clean it up, and to tell them again of his goals and ideas for the restoration of America, its values and ideals of which we are so proud and which has sustained us for more than 200 years.
The repugs can’t stand it – Obama makes sense, the people trust him, they neither like nor do they trust Cheney and the Bush administration. Yet there is Cheney mocking Obama among everything else, for delivering a 10-page speech, when Cheney’s was a repetitive rehash of the past 8 years of arguments spread out over 16 pages.
He has to leave the stage and STFU.
The people heard Obama and trust he will figure a way out of this steaming pile of crap left from Bush&Co.
katy Says:
… something on my mind, gonna put it out here, nothing special… just back from errands…
i hear dorgan on ed and the stories before that… i’ve heard several times from dems that the vote yesterday was not reported correctly, misunderstood the meaning, and so on…
“we just want to see a plan, and so on…”
THEN WHY THE HELL PUT IT UP TO A VOTE.?.!.?
it’s like they know they f’d up but have to explain that stupid scaredy-cat vote, saying it was about wanting to see a plan…
oh well… just a stupid move imo…
You are 100% right!
Probably blew a few servers.
They are used to acting without consulting their constituents.
May 21st, 2009 at 7:42 pmbelaccifer lacca Says:
——————————————————————————–
JohnM Says:
Can you explain again how Cheney knows more about what techniques are the best for obtaining information from prisoners than actual professional interrogators who seem to universally disagree with Cheney that ‘enhanced interrogation techniques’ (read: torture) are effective, timely or warranted?
Thanks.
Please show how there is universal support that the tecniques do not work.
May 21st, 2009 at 7:44 pmAccording to JohnM, the guy who left the race before Mike Huckabee suddenly has a shot against the president who ran the best organized and most technologically advanced campaign in U.S. history.
You cons sure know how to identify a threat. (Hey, 2003 is over and it’s 2009, why did George Bush leave office while still in Iraq?)
May 21st, 2009 at 7:45 pmMarie,
Why aren’t you happy? Why aren’t you filled with joy and happiness that Obama is President. Why must you go on and on with such hate? Isn’t Obama supposed to provide the Utopia that you crave so much? You sound so, I don’t know, yes—miserable. Is your life that awful, unfulfilled? Get happy, you won. Have some fun.
May 21st, 2009 at 7:46 pmRomney forgets we were attacked nine months into the Cheney admin while Cheney sat in room playing war games which led to indecision and mayhem.
May 21st, 2009 at 7:46 pmmitt, your sorry sham of a campaign is over. tell your girly-men sons to enlist.
May 21st, 2009 at 7:47 pmMegaloptera McWars Says:
——————————————————————————–
Hey Johnny, the only economy E-mormony can invigorate is the domestic help at his compound.
And what the f uck is a “real job”?
It would not be a politician or a community organizer, those don’t really translate to real life experience very well for an understanding of economics.
May 21st, 2009 at 7:47 pmJohnM:
May 21st, 2009 at 7:48 pmWhat do you make of this?
http://explore.georgetown.edu/news/?ID=20647
Okay… here’s some opinions from professionals.
Soufan told lawmakers that he and fellow agents went “by the book” and gained actionable intelligence from Zubaydah by standard “informed interrogation” methods. Later, when the CIA’s privately contracted interrogators took over the questioning, using techniques such as waterboarding, or controlled drowning, Zubaydah “shut down” and stopped giving good information, Soufan said.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=104092457&ft=3&f=searchTerm=waterboard
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A2302-2005Jan11.html
There’s more too… where do you get your information?
May 21st, 2009 at 7:49 pmCan I get a list of the real versus the nonreal occupations?
May 21st, 2009 at 7:50 pmIsn’t Obama supposed to provide the Utopia that you crave so much?
May 21st, 2009 at 7:51 pm— No. Who ever said he was?
Cheney doesn’t even have his party on his side, JohnM…
http://progressillinois.com/2009/4/28/manzullo-on-torture
May 21st, 2009 at 7:51 pmObama: 50 GITMO Detainees Cleared for Transfer
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/05/21/obama-50-guantanamo-detai_n_206496.html
TPcritters: Got to get ready for bed as I get up at 4:00 a.m. Hope to see you tomorrow so have a good evening all!
May 21st, 2009 at 7:52 pmPlease show that universal support exists in the first place. Thanks, you presumptuous, red-herring bastard.
May 21st, 2009 at 7:52 pmdbad,
May 21st, 2009 at 7:53 pmWhy so glum? Obama won, why go on and on about Cheney?
Megaloptera McWars Says:
——————————————————————————–
According to JohnM, the guy who left the race before Mike Huckabee suddenly has a shot against the president who ran the best organized and most technologically advanced campaign in U.S. history.
Running a good campaign has nothing to do with being a good president, we will see what America thinks of him in 4 years. Also, many nominees have failed to win in their primaries only to win them later.
May 21st, 2009 at 7:53 pmfrances:
May 21st, 2009 at 7:55 pmWho is going on about Cheney? I didn’t mention him. I have no use for him. I think a better question is why fish with such lame bait as that whole stupid messiah utopia premise?
——————————————————————————–
dbadass Says:
——————————————————————————–
JohnM:
What do you make of this?
http://explore.georgetown.edu/news/?ID=20647
You said universal, please show where there is universal belief that these tactics do not work? Also please refer to Obama officials to see that the techniques did in fact provide valuable intel.
May 21st, 2009 at 7:55 pmYippeee, 50 detainees ready for transfer! Now there’s some good news for everyone. See I told you it’s not all bad. You have to take the good news and enjoy it. Just when you think it couldn’t get any worse, you know, with Tricky Dick out talking sense, Oh I mean, nonsense, in comes the good news about detainees getting transferred.
May 21st, 2009 at 7:56 pmFrances prefers to savor the words of the devil incarnate – Dick Cheney. The man who got us into the state of affairs we are in today. The man who did nothing for America but make us vulnerable, scared and broke.
May 21st, 2009 at 7:56 pmFantasize about the dick, Frances — you must be so desperate.
I find it humorous that the dumbass privacy center is concerned about giving away money when its only purpose here is grovelling for money and doing a piss poor job of it…
May 21st, 2009 at 7:56 pmJohnm @44, so we liberals are “brainwashed morons” because you Repukes are down to 21% in the voter base department?
Explain this.
May 21st, 2009 at 7:56 pmJohnM Says:
It would not be a politician or a community organizer, those don’t really translate to real life experience very well for an understanding of economics.
One can read any good economics text from cover to cover. You have taken gained your principles of economics from blowhard radio dogma, I see. You still don’t know what the hell you are talking about.
President or not, Barack H. Obama has more tangible achievements and more timely economic knowledge than your right-wing ideology will ever allow.
May 21st, 2009 at 7:57 pmRomney is an overly ambitious putz!
May 21st, 2009 at 7:57 pmdbad,
There’s a good relaxing and cleansing thing to do, go fishing.
May 21st, 2009 at 7:58 pmMadasHelinVA Says: Have a good evening!
May 21st, 2009 at 7:58 pm65% approval rating – sit and spin, frothy right-winger.
May 21st, 2009 at 7:59 pmAnd Romney was my governor. It made me feel ashamed that such a moron mormon would disgrace my state by his presense.
May 21st, 2009 at 7:59 pmJohnM Says:
Can you find me one professional who’s willing to go on the record saying that these techniques are effective, timely, and not morally repugnant and counter-productive?
That’s a professional, not a politician or lawyer.
Please?
May 21st, 2009 at 8:00 pmMadas, good night to you.
May 21st, 2009 at 8:00 pmGreat herring got anymore?
belaccifer lacca Says:
——————————————————————————–
JohnM Says:
Can you explain again how Cheney knows more about what techniques are the best for obtaining information from prisoners than actual professional interrogators
May 21st, 2009 at 8:00 pmJohnM:
May 21st, 2009 at 8:00 pmWith all respects are you okay? Is there anything we should know? The reason I ask is that you twice now have confused me with others. I never used the word universal anywhere. If you need help keeping up or need me to assist you in anyway that is fine but it is sort of important to be able to tell who said what if you wish to play along…
Marie,
Why so unhappy with your life, huh? Don’t you hate being so hateful? Or is it a way to release that inner miserableness? Some people just can’t get happy over anything. Not even the splendid news about 50 detainees being released. Enjoy the moment Marie!
May 21st, 2009 at 8:00 pmYeah, JFK never had a real job, right Johnny?–what a loser!
May 21st, 2009 at 8:00 pm81:
May 21st, 2009 at 8:01 pmIndeed and so is dodging the obvious it seems…
Wow. John M’s stupid has fallen off the charts!
May 21st, 2009 at 8:01 pmPut the bottle down, Frances.
May 21st, 2009 at 8:01 pmIntrepid,
You should be estatic with the one we have now, no? He’s a charmer.
May 21st, 2009 at 8:02 pmJohn Moron, answer my question on #78.
May 21st, 2009 at 8:02 pmBob Says:
Great herring got anymore?
How is what I said a red herring?
May 21st, 2009 at 8:04 pmdid nitwit romney forget he lost to obama? not only did nitwit lose to obama, he also lost to grampy mclame. and we should be listening to his opinion why?
May 21st, 2009 at 8:04 pmAs usual, when Johnny Moron gets his ass kicked, he runs away crying to Mommy. WAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!! MOMMY!! THEY BEAT ME UP AGAIN!!!!! WAHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!
May 21st, 2009 at 8:07 pmJohnM = Pussy
May 21st, 2009 at 8:08 pmJohnM supports torture. That means he resorts to violence to get what he wants in life because he has no intellectual capacity to gain otherwise.
Hey Johnny, national security wasn’t your bright idea circa 2001. President Clinton left Bush a great national security blueprint, remember? It was disregarded. The intelligence gatherers on a local and national level rout the minds of suspected terrorists, murderers and rapists every day through non-violent means and you disrespect and disregard their work with your tried and failed Neanderthal-catering practices. You try to take credit for their work by claiming it was gathered through your hard-on for torture.
You are dysfunctional.
May 21st, 2009 at 8:09 pmMegaloptera McWars Says:
JohnM supports torture. That means he resorts to violence to get what he wants in life because he has no intellectual capacity to gain otherwise.
Hey Johnny, national security wasn’t your bright idea circa 2001. President Clinton left Bush a great national security blueprint, remember? It was disregarded. The intelligence gatherers on a local and national level rout the minds of suspected terrorists, murderers and rapists every day through non-violent means and you disrespect and disregard their work with your tried and failed Neanderthal-catering practices. You try to take credit for their work by claiming it was gathered through your hard-on for torture.
You are dysfunctional.
He believes in the cowards’ way of doing things. Obviously.
May 21st, 2009 at 8:10 pmIntrepid,
So that’s good news, right? Why aren’t you happy? Is it just par for the course to be miserable when you win?
May 21st, 2009 at 8:12 pmHere’s some more JohnM!
…and ‘what needs to be done to get a guy to talk’ is not torture- surprise!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-danzig/fbi-interrogator-waterboa_b_203095.html
May 21st, 2009 at 8:12 pmWhat strikes me is the high handed tactics which Obama uses in his Administration.
May 21st, 2009 at 8:13 pmHe Obama claims the high ground but does he? I would submit that Obama has no handle on the War on Terror. He has no handle on the Prisoners being held at Gitmo.
Obama believing he can bring these thugs to the United States deserves due process as an American under our system of government.
These people are terrorist and they have but one objective and that is killing of Americans. They are not even wanted back in the Countries they came from. They were captured with weapon on the battle field. They were not foreign fighters during what they dreamed of during killing Americans. They are not soldier deserving treatment by the Geneva Convention. Any other Country like Russia would already have killed them. We are the ones which should have our head politically heads examined in Washington. Obama wants to treat them as mistreated prisoners of war. It is not a war it is a conflict of interest. They are the ones which attacked us killing out people and Obama wants to forget this.
Bringing them here allowing them freedoms they do not otherwise deserve. They need to remain at Gitmo. Fairness is deserving for soldiers not Thugs and murderers.
frances… you got any professional interrogators who agree with Cheney?
Just one?
May 21st, 2009 at 8:13 pmfrances:
May 21st, 2009 at 8:15 pmPlease tell me you aren’t a single trick pony.
It will make me happy…
frances Says:
Intrepid,
So that’s good news, right? Why aren’t you happy? Is it just par for the course to be miserable when you win?
It’s “par for the course” when I make the lives of neokkkons miserable when I win.
AAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
Inbreed hillbilly.
May 21st, 2009 at 8:15 pmfrances obviously has nothing to contribute to this thread. It’s just a leftover from the last eight years desperate for a platform. It no longer has a national reflection of itself sticking problems on millions of people.
May 21st, 2009 at 8:16 pmstormn00007
May 21st, 2009 at 8:17 pmI think it might be easier if we defined some terms first. What is a “terrorist” in your mind? Do you or would you ever support “terrorism”?
Frances = reich wing concern troll with the intelligence of a sh*t kernal.
May 21st, 2009 at 8:17 pmWhat about you stormy?
We’re looking for one professional interrogator who believes that Cheney is correct and that waterboarding is not counter-productive and morally repugnant.
That’s just one.
May 21st, 2009 at 8:18 pmbela,
That is secret CIA stuff you wouldn’t understand. Why the obsession with Cheney? Why not be happy about winning? What does make you happy?
May 21st, 2009 at 8:18 pmbelaccifer lacca Says:
Here’s some more JohnM!
Soufan is one of many interrogators whose experience proves that using physical force to “break” detainees is not an effective way to obtain information.
I recently spent three days with Eric Maddox, the interrogator responsible for developing the intelligence that led to Saddam Hussein and Matthew Alexander, the interrogator who led a team that developed the intelligence that led US forces to Al Zarqawi (the former head of Al Qaeda in Iraq).
Both Maddox and Alexander do not believe that waterboarding is an effective interrogation technique.
As Maddox explained, “I’m not all about human rights. I am about doing what needs to be done to get a guy to talk.”
…and ‘what needs to be done to get a guy to talk’ is not torture- surprise!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-danzig/fbi-interrogator-waterboa_b_203095.html
OWNED!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
May 21st, 2009 at 8:19 pmThat is secret CIA stuff you wouldn’t understand.
Then why do you doubt the words of those who do understand it?
Where are your professional interrogators who are willing to back Cheney up?
’cause I got a whole mess of ‘em who say he and you are dead wrong on this issue.
May 21st, 2009 at 8:20 pmSo that’s a no on the names, frances?
You can’t find one?
Interesting…
May 21st, 2009 at 8:23 pmIntrepid,
The ones that did it. I think Obama appreciates how it worked, no? But that is really here nor there. Let’s talk about happy things, like the 50 detainees being transferred.
May 21st, 2009 at 8:23 pmHey frances, if you cared to keep tabs on what’s facing this country and this president’s daunting task in fixing it all, you, too, would find little to be happy about. Ignorance of others’ troubles can lead to lots of happiness, and I guess that’s why they say conservatives are much happier than liberals. But ignorance pays only until those you’ve been ignoring come home to roost (see: 2006, 2008).
May 21st, 2009 at 8:24 pmbela,
Ok, Ok, let’s have their names. So you have names of people that say it doesn’t work, and you still aren’t happy? You have a boat load of people to back you up too. Boy I’d be one happy mofo!
May 21st, 2009 at 8:25 pmThat is secret CIA stuff you wouldn’t understand.
And yet somehow you do understand? How could you? If it’s “secret”, then who told you? Or are you just making that up?
May 21st, 2009 at 8:25 pmFantastic news – 50 detainees cleared for transfer. Now if members of Congress quit being fearful and people would give President Obama room to work change will happen.
May 21st, 2009 at 8:26 pmfrances… you do know that ‘the ones that did it’ were outside contractors brought in by the CIA at the behest of Cheney and Bush with no real interrogation experience, right?
And that the professionals regarded them with scorn and derision, right??
And that all the best intel. seems to have come from the initial interviews with the REAL professionals, right???
May 21st, 2009 at 8:26 pmfrances Says:
Intrepid,
The ones that did it. I think Obama appreciates how it worked, no? But that is really here nor there. Let’s talk about happy things, like the 50 detainees being transferred.
Or you committing yourself to a mental institution.
May 21st, 2009 at 8:27 pmI think Obama appreciates how it worked, no?
What worked? Torture? When? Prove that it worked.
May 21st, 2009 at 8:27 pmFrances, you are so wasted.
Papa Bear O’Reilly cautions not to go out because there are smear merchants everywhere who will snap[I'm doing finger motion] your photo and sell it to Keith Olbermann.
May 21st, 2009 at 8:27 pmMega,
You have so much to be happy about, enjoy it. So is it true conservatives are happier than liberals? I always thought that was just nonsense.
May 21st, 2009 at 8:27 pmWayne Ant Schneider Says:
That is secret CIA stuff you wouldn’t understand.
And yet somehow you do understand? How could you? If it’s “secret”, then who told you? Or are you just making that up?
He/she/it is regurgitating stuff Limpballs told he/she/it to say. Nothing but hot air.
May 21st, 2009 at 8:29 pmYou can’t find one?
Interesting…
—–
May 21st, 2009 at 8:29 pmIt is a big world. One must exist. I think it is more that for some reason they are unwilling to look for one. I suspect this is a function of fear of what they might find or possibly just plain old laziness…
bela,
Now that was an enjoyable post. That’s the kind I like. Please go on!
May 21st, 2009 at 8:29 pmFrancis: I think Obama appreciates how it worked, no?
Prove torture works.
May 21st, 2009 at 8:29 pmYou have so much to be happy about, enjoy it.
Here’s what you don’t get, frances.
I’m not in this to ‘win’ at any cost.
I want us, as a nation, to be right and do the right thing… so I can’t jut be ‘happy’ to be proven right… ’cause we still did wrong, get it?
May 21st, 2009 at 8:30 pmhorm,
No kidding, we already have terrorists in our prisons, whats a few more. Geez!
May 21st, 2009 at 8:30 pmFrancis, if Obama “appreciates” how it works, then explain why he banned the use of it.
May 21st, 2009 at 8:31 pmfrances
You wanna know what will really make me happy?
Answer my friend’s reasonable questions at 119…
Remember – Heavy is the head that wears Archie’s crown…
May 21st, 2009 at 8:31 pmI, for one, am happy that 50 souls are no longer imprisoned and abused in the lawless hell hole that is Gitmo. What a sap I am.
May 21st, 2009 at 8:31 pmfrances Says:
bela,
That is secret CIA stuff you wouldn’t understand. Why the obsession with Cheney? Why not be happy about winning?
So I take it you’re the ultimate insider? Where’s your security clearance? You believe that just because you’re a right-winger you’re part of the club of secrets? Pffff. You’re Dick Cheney’s butt cushion.
The Bush bots still talk of “winning” even though they haven’t nailed down a strategy for moving in-and-out of Iraq since entering in 2003. You’ve got an entrenched hellhole on your hands, son, a land of devastation with no yield to American national security interests. If you’re still considering “winning” you should throw out the video games and clear your head.
May 21st, 2009 at 8:31 pmbela,
I like to win, when I win, I’m happy. It’s a good feeling. But you’re right, sometimes we are wrong. But it doesn’t mean you don’t to get enjoy the moment.
May 21st, 2009 at 8:33 pmfrances,
May 21st, 2009 at 8:33 pmYou are not suppose to be concerning yourself with things of the world. Now do go outside and wait for the rapture.
frances Says:
horm,
No kidding, we already have terrorists in our prisons, whats a few more. Geez!
Francis, we already have terrorists locked up in supermax prisons whose facilities have a proven no escape record and where prisoners are isolated from each other so they can’t interact so explain how the US is incapable of incarcerating terrorists in our prisons.
May 21st, 2009 at 8:34 pmSpring is happy, see that’s progress. He’s happy about the detainees. He is enjoying the moment.
May 21st, 2009 at 8:35 pmConservatives are always afraid of what they don’t know. They cling to their guns, want to control peoples lives and destroy what they fear. All in the name of God.
May 21st, 2009 at 8:35 pmfrances Says:
Spring is happy, see that’s progress. He’s happy about the detainees. He is enjoying the moment.
I am waiting for your explainations on #132 and #138. Why are you dodging them?
May 21st, 2009 at 8:36 pmSo, thugs and terrorists do not deserve fairness? Nor do terrorists? Wow, so the very significant number of thugs and murders who are in jail BECAUSE of our justice system, and who received their due process, as is their right, didn’t deserve it? The terrorists we have successfully incarcerated in our correctional system, again who received due process, their day in court, and were still tossed into the clink, not only didn’t deserve that, but are what, too dangerous to keep in our prison system? Really? Even though none of them have escaped? Even though they are doing hard time? Even though they are completely under control, yet not out in the general populace of our society?
You don’t want the Rule of Law at all. What you are speaking is dangerous, and is truly un-American. In the extreme. It is precisely the opposite of Rule of Law. It is the Rule of Fear, the Rule of Because-We-Say-So, and the Rule of F*** the Law. It is Mob Rule. It is precisely the kind of garbage that leads to horrific sweeping actions based on fear to destroy a nation’s principles, and lead it down a road towards an unthinkable, deep, foreboding abyss. You want to see backlash? Giving terrorists, thugs and murderers rights under the Rule of Law ain’t got nothin’ on the backlash historically seen when responding to violent, despicable, dehumanizing, inhumane, tragic, cruel, and insane actions taken because of fear and mental weakness.
Dangerous ideals you’ve got there. Dangerous to We the People far more than it is dangerous to the terrorists. Dangerous in ways that will bring far worse terrorist actions than acknowledging the human rights of ANY prisoner could remotely hope to be.
The degree of civilization in a society can be judged by entering its prisons.
May 21st, 2009 at 8:36 pm– Fyodor Dostoevsky
frances Says:
Mega,
You have so much to be happy about, enjoy it.
No, we’re shoveling your shit. No happiness until you’re unhappy.
May 21st, 2009 at 8:36 pmfrances:
May 21st, 2009 at 8:37 pmDo your friends down at the car club call you Cruiser?
OK, I say we take Mitt up on his offer and waterboard him to see which is worse.
Every vote for Romney kills a puppy!
May 21st, 2009 at 8:38 pmErr, that first line should be, “So, thugs and murderers do not deserve fairness?”
May 21st, 2009 at 8:38 pmhorm,
eh? Back on that negative vibe, it’s hard to let go of that. As for the terrorists coming here, are we going to have a plan anytime soon?
May 21st, 2009 at 8:38 pmUsing a venn diagram, compare and contrast terrorists and freedom fighters….
Be sure to review the assessment rubric before you begin….
You may begin now…
Begin…
May 21st, 2009 at 8:41 pmfrances Says:
horm,
eh? Back on that negative vibe, it’s hard to let go of that. As for the terrorists coming here, are we going to have a plan anytime soon?
Yeah. Send them to your house…er………I mean……..Trailer.
May 21st, 2009 at 8:42 pmWhat do you care if there’s a plan? Who appointed you to place benchmarks on this administration? You and your ilk were demoted to dog catcher, remember?
May 21st, 2009 at 8:42 pmI think a plan would be the first step, then we go from there. As for those questions, I’m not in the CIA, but obviously you are, so you should know all that stuff already. How I can only assume Obama agrees, cuz he had a brain freeze about what he said on the campaign trail about bringing Bush/Cheney to trial.
May 21st, 2009 at 8:42 pmMega,
Why don’t you try for one minute not to be so miserable and unhappy. Do you act like this in real life or is just because no one knows who you are?
May 21st, 2009 at 8:45 pmI’m not in the CIA, but obviously you are, so you should know all that stuff already.
Again I ask, if you are not a professional- why do you refuse to believe what the professional interrogators tell you?
You don’t get much more clear than this:
May 21st, 2009 at 8:47 pm
Maybe IT didn’t read me clearly: WHO APPOINTED YOU TO PLACE BENCHMARKS ON THIS ADMINISTRATION?
YOU ARE AN OUTCAST.
May 21st, 2009 at 8:48 pmFranny,
Negative vibe? You don’t know what you’re talking about. We don’t know for sure if all of the detainees are terrorists. In spite of the mess Cheney left behind, Obama will work things out with Gitmo. You conservatives need to stop being paranoid and scared.
May 21st, 2009 at 8:50 pmMega,
Chillax there big guy! Stop yelling. Take a breath and breath deep. Ok, Ok, so Obama wants to wing it, fine.
Bela,
I have never met these so-called Maddox and Alexander, so I cannot speak for them.
May 21st, 2009 at 8:52 pmfrances Says:
I think a plan would be the first step, then we go from there. As for those questions, I’m not in the CIA, but obviously you are, so you should know all that stuff already. How I can only assume Obama agrees, cuz he had a brain freeze about what he said on the campaign trail about bringing Bush/Cheney to trial.
I believe Obama is leaving that up to the Justice Department to decide? Ya know….. Separation of powers under the Constitution, right???
May 21st, 2009 at 8:52 pmMega,
Outcast to who?
May 21st, 2009 at 8:53 pmIntrepid,
Good, then he knows that he hasn’t a clue. That’s a relief.
May 21st, 2009 at 8:54 pmfrances
May 21st, 2009 at 8:54 pmI apologize but might I add you will need to use a number 2 pencil…
Umm, the plan is as follows:
1) Restore the Rule of Law, and the inalienable human rights of all of our prisoners.
2) Using the Rule of Law, determine who is and isn’t deserving of incarceration.
3) Convict, under the Rule of Law, all of those found guilty of criminal activity. Release to their homes all of those who are found innocent.
4) Rinse, repeat.
That is a plan that doesn’t torture, doesn’t violate the rights of anyone, restores moral superiority (albeit in such a manner that will take time to reconcile with the world, thanks to the insane actions of the previous administration), and reduces potential terrorist recruits (as opposed to increase them, like torture and human rights violations tend to).
As for any backlash, any prisoners released who were found innocent who then turn to terrorism because of how they were treated? That isn’t on Obama’s head. That is all Bush, Cheney, et al. Any such behavior by people who were tortured is the fault of the criminal administration who egregiously violated their rights, and the interrogators who were “only following orders”. Had they done what our interrogators have done successfully for many decades now, and treated those prisoners humanely while questioning them, we wouldn’t be in this particular mess to begin with.
May 21st, 2009 at 8:56 pmBela,
I have never met these so-called Maddox and Alexander, so I cannot speak for them.
Ahh, but you’ve met Cheney and Romney and that’s why you trust them implicitly on this topic?
You don’t have to speak for them… just listen. Here’s another introduction from the article you didn’t bother to read:
I think they qualify as professional interrogators, don’t you?
May 21st, 2009 at 8:56 pmMod,
So you are happy?
May 21st, 2009 at 8:58 pmfrances Says:
Intrepid,
Good, then he knows that he hasn’t a clue. That’s a relief.
Unlike Bush, Obama isn’t going to dictate what the Justice Department does therefore not going above the law by disrespecting separation of powers. Respect for the Constitution goes a long way. Checks and balances, ya know???
May 21st, 2009 at 8:58 pmBela,
Can’t speak for them.
May 21st, 2009 at 8:59 pmIntrepid
Like I said, he admits he hasn’t a clue, so he leaves it to someone else. Good news all around.
May 21st, 2009 at 9:00 pmPointless non sequitur. Try again.
May 21st, 2009 at 9:00 pmRight- not asking you to speak for them, frances… just speak for yourself.
Why do you doubt the word of the professional interrogators who say that these techniques do not work and are counter-productive?
What are you privy to that we (and they) are not?
May 21st, 2009 at 9:01 pmfrances:
Would you prefer to construct a shoebox diarama of happy people.
Maybe you might consider keeeping a journal of reflections on all things happy…
May 21st, 2009 at 9:02 pmMod,
So even this does not make you happy? You posted something that should make you smile from ear to ear, but it doesn’t, why?
May 21st, 2009 at 9:02 pm’cause frances?
‘You win, be happy… but you don’t know what the CIA knows and so maybe Cheney’s right!’ is not an argument… it’s nothing.
May 21st, 2009 at 9:03 pmWhatever the level of my outrage, my conscience is there. Millions of people have a conscience and those millions put President Obama in office.
You are an outcast, frances, politically anyway.
So, frances the torture supporter, you have your former vice president with his 19% approval rating and you think you’re winning any popularity contests?
Let’s face it: It’s going to take a hard left agenda just to counterbalance the hard-right agenda of the last eight years. March to Socialism? HA! We’re hoping just to get by tugging to the center.
May 21st, 2009 at 9:04 pmbela,
I never eva spoke to Maddox or Alexander.
dbad,
Good idea, can I start with you?
May 21st, 2009 at 9:04 pmbela,
Not all of us can speak with Maddox and Alexander at the drop of a hat you know.
May 21st, 2009 at 9:05 pmWhat about what I’m saying is confusing, frances?
I’m not asking if you spoke to them… I’m asking why you doubt them.
May 21st, 2009 at 9:06 pmPointless non sequitur. Try again.
Also, false dichotomy. One can be happy, yet simultaneously experience other emotions. I am generally happy in my life, yet with regards to these egregious violations of human rights done in my name, your name, all of our names, I am not remotely happy. Nor will I be happy should said administration be found guilty of crimes and sentenced appropriately. Grim satisfaction, perhaps, but in no way happy.
So, again, pointless non sequitur. Try harder.
May 21st, 2009 at 9:06 pmIf it makes you happy…
May 21st, 2009 at 9:07 pmNot all of us can speak with Maddox and Alexander at the drop of a hat you know.
You know who can? Dick Cheney… or he could when he was Vice President, at least.
Why do you think he didn’t listen to them?
May 21st, 2009 at 9:07 pmTwo words:
Confirmation bias.
May 21st, 2009 at 9:11 pmfrances Says:
Intrepid
Like I said, he admits he hasn’t a clue, so he leaves it to someone else. Good news all around.
He does have a phd from Harvard in Constitutional Law. He did teach Constitutional Law at U of Chicago, which is one of the top law schools in the nation. Maybe he knows even more than you and Dubya put together.
May 21st, 2009 at 9:12 pmHave you ever seen the Stepford Wives, Frances dear?
That just jumped into my mind for some reason…
May 21st, 2009 at 9:14 pmWhere the devil is JohnM?
The old boy just went out for cigarettes and pro-torture links and he hasn’t returned yet.
I’m worried.
May 21st, 2009 at 9:15 pmfrances,
May 21st, 2009 at 9:15 pmNot everything is like a high school game between your school and the crosstown rival.
I am afraid I might have had a little something to do with JohnM’s untimely departure but I hope not as we had so to talk about…
May 21st, 2009 at 9:20 pmspring heeled jack,
You know which movies jumped into my mind?
Frances Goes to the Races (1951)
May 21st, 2009 at 9:21 pmFrances Goes to West Point (1952)
Frances Covers the Big Town (1953)
Frances Joins the WACS (1954)
Frances in the Navy (1955)
Frances in the Haunted House (1956}
That is one patriotic talking mule.
May 21st, 2009 at 9:27 pmYeah, the talking mule has more battle experience than Cheney.
May 21st, 2009 at 9:28 pmyou said it. I didn’t.
May 21st, 2009 at 9:29 pmspring heeled jack Says:
Yeah, the talking mule has more battle experience than Cheney.
_____________
Yeah… but Cheney’s the bigger *ss…
May 21st, 2009 at 9:34 pmspring heeled jack Says:
Yeah, the talking mule has more battle experience than Cheney.
and Dubya and Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz, and Pearl and Kristol, and Limbaugh, and Beck and Reagan and Romney
May 21st, 2009 at 9:36 pmPerle
May 21st, 2009 at 9:37 pmPLEASE STOP CALLING HIM VICE PRESIDENT. HIS TIME IS UP. ITS OVER. HE IS EX-VICE PRESIDENT. YOU’RE INSULTING BIDEN.
May 21st, 2009 at 9:38 pmJesus was a community organizer, chased the money changers from the market and warned of the perils of usury. Economics is not hard to understand.
May 21st, 2009 at 9:51 pmkaty Says:
Also, notice how their brand of humor is always a bit sadistic?
May 21st, 2009 at 9:55 pmEconomics today, cannot be the same as yesterday, or even, tomorrow morning!?
May 21st, 2009 at 9:57 pmJust as the chimpy’s admin was filled with incompetence manics, progressive/liberal/dem’s blogs are filled with teabag trolls.
teabaggers love to waddle in their own ignorance. They can’t get enough of it.
May 21st, 2009 at 10:17 pmThat’s a big difference with Vice President Cheney … he never went to sleep,” Romney concluded.
No, he hibernated in his lead-lined coffin during the day.
May 21st, 2009 at 10:19 pmAnd Moderation?
I just wanted you to know that reading your posts MAKES ME HAPPY!!!
Thanks for the joy!
Your fan,
~A
May 21st, 2009 at 10:35 pmLeftside Annie Says:
And Moderation?
I just wanted you to know that reading your posts MAKES ME HAPPY!!!
Echoing Ms. Annie’s sentiment. Sometimes the recommend just isn’t enough.
May 21st, 2009 at 10:43 pmRomney should have added that Cheney’s farts smell like violets.
May 21st, 2009 at 10:45 pmRomney says that Obama must choose between keeping faith with the interests of liberals, or keeping faith with the interests
of the American people.
Because everyone knows that liberals aren’t really Americans.
May 21st, 2009 at 11:04 pmIt was GREAT watching our new President getting SCHOOLED by the well-spoken ex-VP. He OWNED him.
I’ve been waiting for too long to finally hear someone come to the defense of President Bush’s administration and Mr. Cheney did it in SPADES!!!
hahahahahahahahahaha
May 21st, 2009 at 11:06 pmBTW, The President’s speech was hastily scheduled in an attempt to counter the ex-VP’s speech WHICH HAD BEEN PLANNED FOR MANY WEEKS.
May 21st, 2009 at 11:08 pmAnother day another economic ‘theory’…..
May 21st, 2009 at 11:15 pmListen folks, here’s a few issues that are NOT relevant to the discussion of moving Club Gitmo residents here:
1. Escape. This is the last thing that anyone, liberal or conservative is worried about. It is a non-issue for all intents and purposes.
2. Club Gitmo is bad for our “image” abroad. Any true patriot wouldn’t give a rat’s a$$ about what other countries think.
3. Club Gitmo is a “recruiting tool” for Al Qaida. Oh, please.
etc. etc.
May 21st, 2009 at 11:15 pmCheney did it in SPADES.
Racist much Tim ?
May 21st, 2009 at 11:16 pmCheney, the guy who preferred Feiths alternative intelligence. Turned out to be wrong wrong wrong.
Dont go away mad, Dick, just, please, go.
May 21st, 2009 at 11:17 pmI wonder if Tim, OS, or slippery would care to enlighten us with an example of a professional interrogator who agrees with Mr. Cheney on the utility and necessity of ‘enhanced interrogation techniques’… we’ve been looking for some time for some one to give us one name but haven’t seemed to find one.
May 21st, 2009 at 11:20 pmAll the evidence shows that everything Cheney said was a lie. The valuable information came with legal FBI interrogation. The waterboarding did not produce actionable intelligence. You can tell by the timelines.
The waterboarding was used to try to get them to give a false link to Iraq and Al Qaeda, and Iraq and WMD.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=104104527
Soufan told lawmakers that he and fellow agents went “by the book” and gained actionable intelligence from Zubaydah by standard “informed interrogation” methods. Later, when the CIA’s privately contracted interrogators took over the questioning, using techniques such as waterboarding, or controlled drowning, Zubaydah “shut down” and stopped giving good information, Soufan said.
May 21st, 2009 at 11:21 pmI thought it would be over your head
May 21st, 2009 at 11:24 pmDo you dispute what was said, slippery?
May 21st, 2009 at 11:25 pmOr are you too busy rolling on the floor?
Lemme see when else did Cheney go with alternative intelligence…ah yes the Team B folks who made stuff up and called it intelligence then leaked it to the press.
Cold War Fear!! Nukes!! Fear!!!
Cheney is doing what he has been doing for some time, making crap up and selling his snake oil as truth serum
May 21st, 2009 at 11:25 pmThere are videos of the testimoney if you would like to hear
May 21st, 2009 at 11:25 pmhttp://explore.georgetown.edu/news/?ID=20647
May 21st, 2009 at 11:26 pmOh dear, time to re-group boys?
May 21st, 2009 at 11:29 pmWell, I eagerly await the next blast of LOL’ful ‘truth’ under new names, guys… I’ll be waiting.
Oh, you’re still here slippery?
May 21st, 2009 at 11:30 pmCare to answer the question?
Club Gitmo is a $200mil state of the art detention facility that EVEN IT’S CRITICS admit is being run with the highest standards and regard to the detainees’ well-being, i.e. halal meals, Korans delivered with GLOVES on, excellent medical care, etc.
It remains the best solution to a sticky problem and IT IS WORKING. Why mess with a good thing?
Oh yeah, that’s right. Euroweenies don’t like it!
May 21st, 2009 at 11:31 pmHow so, slippery? How so?
May 21st, 2009 at 11:32 pmYou have a name for me? One interrogator who thinks that Cheney is correct about waterboarding and other ‘enhanced techniques?’
May 21st, 2009 at 11:33 pmMay 21st, 2009 at 11:34 pm
I was once belac. that’s the only other screenname I’ve ever used and I didn’t change to confuse people, slippery… I did it to celebrate the Shellac beetle after Mr. O’reily declared us all insects…
May 21st, 2009 at 11:36 pmZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ?
What the hell is that? Are you the dude that splits the cigarette in two and tries to bet with it in One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest?
May 21st, 2009 at 11:36 pmI sincerely hope our new President keeps using the last administration as a crutch! The more he does it, the more average Americans and especially those weak-minded who voted for him will see the light.
May 21st, 2009 at 11:36 pmGood link dbadass, but maybe slippery knows more than “retired senior military interrogators and research psychologists”? What do you think? They only have “decades of research” to back them up.
May 21st, 2009 at 11:36 pmwhen you wake up, slippery… if I could get that name?
May 21st, 2009 at 11:37 pmJust one…
Terrorist sympathizer.
May 21st, 2009 at 11:38 pmKeith:
I think manners dictate that we welcome others to refute with evidences if they can or wish
Do you think they will?
May 21st, 2009 at 11:38 pmTim! Do you know of one professional interrogator who agrees with Cheney?
May 21st, 2009 at 11:39 pmWe’re looking for just one…
dbadass, how come we gotta use manners? They don’t.
May 21st, 2009 at 11:39 pmThe last admin is more like a case of herpes that just keeps on giving.
May 21st, 2009 at 11:40 pmslippery Says:
Ollie North
Okay. Do you understand what we’re after, slippery? Not convicted felons but professional interrogators… as far as I know, ollie never worked as an interrogator… an Arms Dealer? yeah. Interrogator? No.
May 21st, 2009 at 11:43 pmKeith
May 21st, 2009 at 11:43 pmWe must because we are not them…
Ollie North had a felony conviction of lying to Congress (later overturned by a right-wing judge)).
Do you cons know that Ollie North planned to sell about $1 billion worth of weaponry illegally to the terrorist state of Iran under Ayhatollah Khomeni? I think about 2 thousand TOW and stinger missles plus a lot of other sh!t.
Ollie’s diary said the Contras were bringing TONS of cocaine into the US. Reagan said they were the moral equivalant of our founding fathers.
May 21st, 2009 at 11:44 pmslippery Says:
Ollie North
K, now give us the name of a professional interogator who agrees with Cheney and is not a discredited liar?
May 21st, 2009 at 11:44 pmSheesh..ya go take a bath and when you return it’s a troll explosion around here.
belaccifer lacca
T
he best questions are the ones that make them think the most but you seem to already get that.
Keep asking it…
May 21st, 2009 at 11:45 pmI cant believe some people are trying to defend a guy who sold them a used car with bananas and sawdust packed in the noisy rear end.
May 21st, 2009 at 11:45 pmSlippery? When you’re done laughing… if we could have that name? Just one…
May 21st, 2009 at 11:46 pmSheesh…. What a bunch of BS from the lame trolls (and you know who you are). We are fortunate that only around 20% of the U.S. are scared so $hitless that they would endorse, approve and defend torture. Cowards each and every one of them.
We still do not know who orchestrated the crimes on 9/11/01 and these freaks go along with the authoritarians without blinking. When was our country ever so consumed with fear? Never, until the bush criminals came to town. Shame – there is nothing but shame here and those who try to tear our President and our country down should be filled with shame.
This is my country you fu(kers — and I will fight you every step of the way. And we the people will win!!
Sorry – now I’ll go back and read the rest of the comments (except for the lame ass, unAmerican trolls).
May 21st, 2009 at 11:46 pmOkay how about this. What if I do the leg work and actually document one name. Just one. Will that be sufficient data to document my too lazy hypothesis or are they genuinely afraid to go look?
May 21st, 2009 at 11:49 pmBTW, Ollie’s felony conviction of lying to Congresss was overturned not because he did not lie—but because he was granted too much immunity. Do you cons agree with selling massive amounts of weaponry illegally to a declared TERRORIST STATE?
May 21st, 2009 at 11:49 pmOkay- so you say slippery… but can you tell us one professional interrogator who agrees with you and Cheney that ‘enhanced interrogation’ works?
Just one…
May 21st, 2009 at 11:49 pmHey, I wouldnt try polishing the turd Bush left either. But there it is..and guess what, the guys who helped him lay that turd dont know what to do with it either. The basically disowned him during the 2008 election. Its not my turd they wailed
May 21st, 2009 at 11:49 pmslippery:
May 21st, 2009 at 11:50 pmIs it just me or are you on that proverbial slope…
Oh and Keith- you know who got Ollie off? Them damn commies at the ACLU… un-American bastards! /half-snark
May 21st, 2009 at 11:50 pmslippery, we executed Japanese for waterboarding! And you could say they were under imminent threat of nuclear bombs. Heard of Hiroshima and Nagasaki?
May 21st, 2009 at 11:51 pmBecause Gonzales, Bybee and Yoo used lawyerly rhetoric and semantics and re-interpreted it? Sheesh. Thats some Luntzian BS they pulled off.
May 21st, 2009 at 11:52 pmJohn Dean was the only one who told the truth in the entire Watergate fiasco. Felon Gordon Liddy has a radio show which cons love.
May 21st, 2009 at 11:53 pmSlippery?
May 21st, 2009 at 11:54 pmAre you gonna answer?
Jesus fcuking christ, the slippery troll equates Mexicans with terrorists — flag this racist.
May 21st, 2009 at 11:57 pmIf someone mentions that freak Liddy I will beat them senseless I swear!
Anyway Slippery. Many what I feel reasonable questions have been posed. Might you wish to discusss any of these?
May 21st, 2009 at 11:58 pmIs John Dean an interrogator, slippery?
May 21st, 2009 at 11:59 pmOr is he a Republican Lawyer who did a bad thing and then repented?
Oh come on Zooey can’t you give me a few minutes first….
May 21st, 2009 at 11:59 pmbelaccifer lacca Says:
Slippery?
Are you gonna answer?
My guess would be no. There are no pros who would defend his point of view, only lame-o chickenhawks. For all the right-wings prattle about the liberal elite, they seem to rely heavily on the opinions of folk who may have studied law and history, but never had a role in forming either.
May 22nd, 2009 at 12:00 amI agree with your assessment, Outstanding. But I’m waiting for slippery to admit it.
May 22nd, 2009 at 12:01 ambelac, it weren’t the aclu, it were Judge David Bryan Sentelle (appointed by Reagan). Sentelle also appointed Ken Starr to investigate Clinton.
May 22nd, 2009 at 12:03 amOh, I was certain that the ACLU argued on behalf of Ollie, Keith… perhaps my memory fails me…
May 22nd, 2009 at 12:04 amslippery Says:
Lie, much?
May 21st, 2009 at 11:59 pm
The written evidence is above.
May 22nd, 2009 at 12:05 am… I was, like, eleven years old at the time.
May 22nd, 2009 at 12:06 am#266 slippery
May 22nd, 2009 at 12:07 amGranted. But after following Nixon’s orders at first and helping in the coverup, he later was the only one to tell the truth.
I told the truth.
evening Zooey, can’t swing a cat without hitting another troll. an infestation
May 22nd, 2009 at 12:08 am@ Tim Vaculik
Tim Vaculik Says:
Club Gitmo is bad for our “image” abroad. Any true patriot wouldn’t give a rat’s a$$ about what other countries think.
Tim, you don’t seem to understand that keeping good relations (yes, having a positive ‘image’)with other countries is vital to US security and economic interests. A “true patriot”, as you say, would actually be interested in maintaining a positive perception of the US abroad (thankfully the Obama Administration is repairing much of the damage done to our image/reputation under Bush).
May 22nd, 2009 at 12:09 amHi, Keith. I’m so frackin’ sick of these bloodthirsty fcuktards. I hope you’re flagging it.
So tired of politics…
May 22nd, 2009 at 12:10 ambelac,
I thought were being funny about the ACLU, then I found:
wiki: “However, on July 20, 1990, with the help of the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU),[7] North’s convictions were vacated, after the appeals court found that witnesses in his trial might have been impermissibly affected by his immunized congressional testimony.[8] “
May 22nd, 2009 at 12:12 amZooey Says:
Hi, Keith. I’m so frackin’ sick of these bloodthirsty fcuktards
Who? The trolls or Cheney?
May 22nd, 2009 at 12:13 amOh, see… I was paying attention back then!
May 22nd, 2009 at 12:13 amKeith Says:
Zooey Says:
Hi, Keith. I’m so frackin’ sick of these bloodthirsty fcuktards
Who? The trolls or Cheney?
May 22nd, 2009 at 12:13 am
Yes.
May 22nd, 2009 at 12:14 amOkay. What if some sort of prize was offered to the first poster to document a qualified advocate of the efficacy of torture?
Say maybe 20 bucks at Applebees….
May 22nd, 2009 at 12:17 amZooey Says:
So tired of politics…
UHHH, can I turn the whack-a-troll hammer over to you?
May 22nd, 2009 at 12:17 amI thought you were chasing it down, dbadass… does the prize inquiry mean you have a name?
May 22nd, 2009 at 12:18 amThat’ll get two meals plus an appetizer!
May 22nd, 2009 at 12:18 amKeith Says:
UHHH, can I turn the whack-a-troll hammer over to you?
May 22nd, 2009 at 12:17 am
No can do, Keith. I’ll flag the slippery idiot, but he’s really not worth my time — or anyone else’s. :D
I think I’ll go watch a movie. Toodles!
May 22nd, 2009 at 12:19 amdbadass Says:
Okay. What if some sort of prize was offered to the first poster to document a qualified advocate of the efficacy of torture?
I don’t see how we can qualify them unless they’ve experienced torture. Maybe we should take ‘em to Applebees first, now thta’s torture!
May 22nd, 2009 at 12:22 amSee the thing is if I had a name, I’d keep it to myself as to be caught in Applebees is a fate I can tolerate not…
May 22nd, 2009 at 12:22 amZooey,
May 22nd, 2009 at 12:22 amRight now, you might have a choice of La Bamba, Chasing Amy, or Constatine. Toodles (who used to say that?
Timmy I hate to break your heart about Gitmo, but here it is:
http://www.alternet.org/rights/140022/little_known_military_thug_squad_still_brutalizing_prisoners_at_gitmo_under_obama/
May 22nd, 2009 at 12:23 amKeith Says:
Zooey,
Right now, you might have a choice of La Bamba, Chasing Amy, or Constatine. Toodles (who used to say that?
May 22nd, 2009 at 12:22 am
Mighty Aphrodite. I almost miss her dulcet condescending tones…
May 22nd, 2009 at 12:23 am“that’s” darnit…too much Chardonney
May 22nd, 2009 at 12:23 amOutstandingInAPlagueOfLocusts Says:
Applebees is like high class and special occasions to me.
May 22nd, 2009 at 12:24 amgoog riddance to Mighty A. :P
May 22nd, 2009 at 12:26 amKeith, chacun a son gout!
May 22nd, 2009 at 12:29 amto each his own taste? or gout?
May 22nd, 2009 at 12:32 amspring heeled jack, good link. I saw Scahill say that on democracy now the other day
May 22nd, 2009 at 12:33 amI think y’all skeert away the trolls.
May 22nd, 2009 at 12:35 amOkay fine. Forget Applebee’s what about a bunch of scratch tickets and a tank of gas? If they insists I’ll spring for the generic cigarettes…
May 22nd, 2009 at 12:35 amZooey,
They say the truth hurts
May 22nd, 2009 at 12:36 amKeith Says:
to each his own taste?
Well yeah, I think Applebee’s is pretty icky, but maybe they’re better in your neck of the woods. Here they have kareoke.
May 22nd, 2009 at 12:36 amI couldn’t stand karaoke. Here they got good high-def screens for ball games.
May 22nd, 2009 at 12:38 amThey can’t give you gout, though, can they?
May 22nd, 2009 at 12:38 amdbadass Says:
Come across with one of those lobsters and I’ll name names like Joe McCarthy.
May 22nd, 2009 at 12:40 amjeez – I walk away to have a bite to eat and this slippery freak is soooooooooo “ascared” of all the bogeymen under his bunkbed. What a freak! These scaredy cats are not Americans; their fears and justifications will always be against what We the People are. Banish them and give them a one way ticket to a place they will feel and be “safe”. And take your friggin safety and shove it! I don’t need safety – I, as an American, need only freedom. Cry babies!
May 22nd, 2009 at 12:41 amgreen Says:
May 22nd, 2009 at 12:41 am
Be careful not to look at troll comments for an hour after eating.
I’m not cleaning up puke — again. ;)
May 22nd, 2009 at 12:44 amZooey Says:
hee hee hee………..
May 22nd, 2009 at 12:47 amOh, and slippery,
May 22nd, 2009 at 12:50 amIn the eight-year rule of Bush, he never reduced the number pouring across our border.
Safety first!
May 22nd, 2009 at 12:51 amstormn00007 Says:
——————————————————————————–
What strikes me is the high handed tactics which Obama uses in his Administration.
He Obama claims the high ground but does he? I would submit that Obama has no handle on the War on Terror. He has no handle on the Prisoners being held at Gitmo.
Obama believing he can bring these thugs to the United States deserves due process as an American under our system of government.
These people are terrorist and they have but one objective and that is killing of Americans. They are not even wanted back in the Countries they came from. They were captured with weapon on the battle field. They were not foreign fighters during what they dreamed of during killing Americans. They are not soldier deserving treatment by the Geneva Convention. Any other Country like Russia would already have killed them. We are the ones which should have our head politically heads examined in Washington. Obama wants to treat them as mistreated prisoners of war. It is not a war it is a conflict of interest. They are the ones which attacked us killing out people and Obama wants to forget this.
Bringing them here allowing them freedoms they do not otherwise deserve. They need to remain at Gitmo. Fairness is deserving for soldiers not Thugs and murderers.
((_________________
Bull! Another unAmerican freak! Who attacked us? We DON’T KNOW – thanks to the bush crime family. Another unAmerican cry baby. Typically I don’t hate people – but these freaks are beyond sympathy and they have no clue about what made our once great country somewhat great. Where would our terribly frightened 20%ers find their so desired and necessary safety? Saudi Arabia? North Korea? Where?
May 22nd, 2009 at 1:02 amAnd by the way – there is no “war on terra” and there never has been. It was a slogan created to put us in a perpetual war, to feed the war profiteers and to keep the loud mouthed crazies sooooooo, soooooooooo afraid. It worked on the 20%ers and the rest of us — well, we’re still scratching our heads, perplexed. Fear drives them and the neocons baited the hook and reeled ‘em in. Never has our country sunk so low.
These freaks can’t handle the USA and our values — they need to be controlled by something outside of themselves. Poor, poor little babies…………
Sorry folks…..this crap is pissing me off.
May 22nd, 2009 at 1:18 amI feel like I’m talking to myself now – but I have one last point to make (and I’m on the left coast) – there are people amongst us that are cruel and they see themselves as righteous, but they are cruel. They don’t know who they are therefore they cannot – ever – know or forgive or understand another — they just can’t. They are essentially emotionally disabled – we lived through 8 years of this, and perhaps more. Like a bad infection, this horror almost destroyed us.
May 22nd, 2009 at 2:23 amslippery LOON Says:
loons, torture and enhanced interrogation are not the same no matter what olbermann tells you
The Nazis had another name for torture too. It was called Enhanced Interrogation or Verschärfte Vernehmung.
http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2007/05/verschfte_verne.html
Please explain how enhanced interrogation and torture are not the same.
Your logic is no different than the Nazis. They used the same argument to defend themselves in Nuremburg war crimes tribunal only to find themselves convicted and executed.
Your level of stupid is astounding. In fact your stupid redefines stupid.
May 22nd, 2009 at 2:24 amAs for your posts in this thread slippery, they show and expose not only your stupid, they expose how immature you are. Now go back to playing with your building blocks and coloring books little boy. You’re not mature enough to play with the big boys yet.
May 22nd, 2009 at 2:31 amAnd please for the 348693465873648756378th time (as I noticed others saying the same thing here), find solid evidence that:
1. Torture works. (Find interrogators who can attest to this because so far, nobody of your un-intellectual trollwhoring ilk has found none to support this claim).
2. Evidence that torture and enhanced interrogation are not the same.
May 22nd, 2009 at 2:38 amIntrepid Says:
It doesn’t matter whether torture works or doesn’t work (well proven not to) — we should not be having this conversation, because whatever the torture freaks say is WRONG according to our Constitution and International law. There is NO excuse. Screw them all — poor suckers, I AM NOT AFRAID!!!
May 22nd, 2009 at 2:54 amSoSlippery, was torture and enhanced interrogation not the same when the Nazis used it on US soldiers when the Nazis used the same exact term the Bush Administration used (Verschärfte Vernehmung or translated to english, enhanced interrogation) on the detainees at Gitmo?
May 22nd, 2009 at 3:22 amgreen Says:
It doesn’t matter whether torture works or doesn’t work (well proven not to) — we should not be having this conversation, because whatever the torture freaks say is WRONG according to our Constitution and International law. There is NO excuse. Screw them all — poor suckers, I AM NOT AFRAID!!!
Considering the trolls have provided zero evidence to support their drivel, I’m inclined to concur.
May 22nd, 2009 at 3:24 amIntrepid Says:
Ahhhh………..they’re so afraid…They can’t help themselves. As I have been here tonight I have also been rewatching the Green Mile – which means little to so many, but is to me quite profound — one has to find and have an enemy; a scapegoat. The Romans did it and crucified the freaks supposed savior – tortured their savior – and now they get off on it and still praise their dead and tortured savior.
May 22nd, 2009 at 3:40 amSheeeeeeeeesshhhhhhhh… someone make sense of this insanity!
Torture for Jesus! Fck yeah!
May 22nd, 2009 at 3:48 am^ /sarcasm
May 22nd, 2009 at 3:48 amoops – at 1 am I wrote obscenity – shoot, and I thought it was a good point, but nevermind.
I was thinking about the freakoids and their supposed saviour who got tortured — and how they get all dreamy and call the day he was tortured “Good Friday” — see? these freaks get off on this $hit — and worship it and who knows what else.
May 22nd, 2009 at 4:00 am“keeping faith with the liberal advocates who promoted his campaign but in doing so, he breaks faith with the interests of the American people”
Nice Mitt. He just said liberals aren’t American people.
“more tortured than the enhanced interrogation techniques”
Reason enough Mitt should never be allowed to hold any public office. Implying a speech can damage worse than torture shows no respect for human life or human dignity.
Cheney does get a little shut-eye when he has his circulatory system plugged in the recharger. But, admittedly, he gets almost no sleep on Tuesday or Friday nights. Those are puppy and kitten sacrificing nights, respectively. I can’t figure out why any network (except of course Fox)will allow this monster on. Can’t they find someone less evil to discuss issues, perhaps Charles Manson.
May 22nd, 2009 at 4:53 amROMNEY / JOE THE PLUMBER
May 22nd, 2009 at 8:11 am2012
Who let in the talking mule (frances) to s#it all over the place? By all the gods on mount Olympus (and all the Godesses mounting… oh, nevermind….)
….. That jack@ss left such steaming piles of manure that it is going to take weeks to shovel it all out. And it is not even productive manure — one cannot use it as fertilizer, as it is devoid of any useable content.
Shut the friggin’ barn door next time. Sheesh. Add in a bunch of ” you F#cking libtard idiot tools” and other explatives and we have MightyAphrodite back. Yeeech!
May 22nd, 2009 at 8:30 amgreen Says:
I was thinking about the freakoids and their supposed saviour who got tortured — and how they get all dreamy and call the day he was tortured “Good Friday” — see? these freaks get off on this $hit — and worship it and who knows what else.
Interstng point. thatnks. As to “waht else”… well, vampirism and cannibalism for one (..umm… for ‘two’) — the “eat of my body, drink of my blood”. Ghoulish.
May 22nd, 2009 at 8:32 amAnything more complicated than Oooga booga is too hard for Republicons…
May 22nd, 2009 at 9:00 amMitt is the bimbo who disowned Reagan in order to win in Massachusetts, then tried to veer right to win the nomination.
He’s a joke.
May 22nd, 2009 at 10:10 amIf they had ANY evidence that torture had saved lives, they would have had it plastered on every media outlet 24/7 during the 2008 campaign.
May 22nd, 2009 at 1:13 pmHostrev-
You bet they would, but the White House won’t release that part of the memos!
(No political points to score by showing that the techniques actually saved American lives.)
By the way, Obama has reserved the right to use these techniques himself.
May 22nd, 2009 at 1:26 pmOne name Romartin.
One professional interrogator who agrees with you and Cheney.
This program is very good at obtaining false confessions… not at extracting actionable intelligence. And that’s what all the professional interrogators in the links I’ve supplied above have said.
Where is the professional interrogator who agrees with you?
May 22nd, 2009 at 1:46 pmbelaccifer,
I don’t know which post you’re referring to, there’s a lot of them above.
I believe that its probably true that these techniques in general are very good at obtaining false confessions. It appears that they were not routinely employed (maybe for this very reason), as they were used on only 3 of the worst terrorists who were believed to have information of another impending attack on our country, and where all other techniques had failed.
Unless the interrogators in your post have knowledge of these specific interrogations, they are not helpful here.
The proof of whether the specific interrogations referred to in the memos produced information that saved innocent American lives from another attack is in the memos.
So far the White House has not released this information.
I would think the names of the specific interrogators involved in these interrogations would not be made public for obvious reasons, and as far as I know they have not come forward with information. Any other interrogators can say whatever they want, but the information from THESE interrogations is what’s relevant.
May 22nd, 2009 at 2:32 pmhttp://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-danzig/fbi-interrogator-waterboa_b_203095.html
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=104092457&ft=3&f=searchTerm=waterboard
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A2302-2005Jan11.html
#2 is a specific interrogator involved in this interrogations… so are the two guys in #1… #3 says he doesn’t know anyone who’s a professional who thinks that this is a good idea… you really wanna play this game?
There’s more…
May 22nd, 2009 at 2:40 pmSee Soufan’s specific knowledge of these specific interrogations?
May 22nd, 2009 at 2:42 pmRomartin16985, just admit that there’s no one that agree that torture works and get out of here. Quit using the White House as an excuse.
Bye.
May 22nd, 2009 at 2:46 pmHere’s one dbadass found…
http://explore.georgetown.edu/news/?ID=20647
May 22nd, 2009 at 2:49 pmWe’re waiting, Romartin… one name.
May 22nd, 2009 at 2:57 pmWow!
May 22nd, 2009 at 3:22 pmFor such an effective and essential program there sure seems to be a lack of actual, professional interrogators willing to stand up for it… it’s almost as if it’s being lauded and defended by Cheney for purely personal reasons… huh?
belaccifer,
You can site all the sources you want, as I’m sure there are cases where psychology works on some terrorists and not on others, and where waterboarding works on some and not on others. I would think what works depends on the individual being interrogated and the skill of the interrogator. Even President Obama has not taken waterboarding off the table.
The fact is that in this case an attack on the United States was prevented with information gained through the use of waterboarding.
I hope that those involved in keeping us safe continue to stay private, as we are well aware how some loons on the left react to those they disagree with.
May 22nd, 2009 at 3:39 pmOkay Ro-
But do you see where they say that not only does it not work but that it was actually COUNTER-PRODUCTIVE?
Your premise that they are ‘keeping us safe’ by waterboarding is false… that’s what the professionals are saying.
Why won’t you or Cheney actually listen to the professionals?
May 22nd, 2009 at 3:43 pmYou realize that by saying this…
you are admitting that you refuse to actually investigate this intellectually? That you will only accept what you are already sure of? That’s weak, Romartin… very weak.
May 22nd, 2009 at 3:44 pmI’ve cited the specific example of one of these cases that you wanted and you still refuse to admit that this is a terrible idea… for all sorts of reasons, not least being that it DOESN’T WORK! It gives bad intel…
again:
May 22nd, 2009 at 3:47 pm
There’s an easy way to settle this, belaccifer,
LET SEE THE ENTIRETY OF THE MEMOS. For some reason, President Obama decided to make public Bush era interrogation techniques, but according to Dick Cheney, left out the part about what information was gained from these techniques. Dick Cheney has asked that President Obama declassify this information as well, but so far Obama has declined.
Does this not matter to you?
Wasn’t that your original point, anyway, that nothing of value was gained? Well, lets see for ourselves.
May 22nd, 2009 at 3:59 pmRomartin,
So, you admit it is all in your mind?
Read this from experts speaking at GeorgetownU:
dbadass Says:
http://explore.georgetown.edu/news/?ID=20647
May 21st, 2009 at 11:26 pm
They say “decades of research” shows that torture does NOT work.
May 22nd, 2009 at 4:06 pmDick Cheney has asked that President Obama declassify this information as well, but so far Obama has declined.
You mean the ones that the CIA said it can’t declassify because of pending litigation?
Those memos?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30750213/
Weird, it’s almost like Obama listens to the professionals around him… like those at the CIA who said that these memos should not be released yet…
The funny thing is, I’d love to have a full investigation and I hope Congress goes forward (it’s not Obama’s job and that’s what he’s said) but if I were Cheney I’d be careful what I wish for…
My original point was that you can’t point to one person who has actual experience interrogating prisoners who thinks this was a good idea… not one.
And neither can Cheney. Not even ONE. Telling.
May 22nd, 2009 at 4:08 pmThe link didn’t post. It’s from #218
http://explore.georgetown.edu/news/?ID=20647
May 22nd, 2009 at 4:08 pmbelac, you can only tell them—you can’t understand it for them.
May 22nd, 2009 at 4:10 pmKeith- I love that it’s changed from… ‘Gloves off, No more Mr. Nice Guy! to ‘It sucks but this was necessary!’ to ‘It gave good information!’ to ‘Well, we got some information.’
Where is the interrogator who doesn’t believe that this is a crappy way to interrogate someone… where?
May 22nd, 2009 at 4:18 pmbelaccifer -
When it suited the purpose, President Obama saw fit to overrule the CIA and declassify 4 memos detailing waterboarding. He could do the same now but chooses not to. It’s quite convenient to now say the President is just following advice from professionals!
Keith, sounds like nothing is in your mind.
May 22nd, 2009 at 5:42 pmRomartin-
When it suited the purpose, President Bush saw fit to overturn years of legal opinion and professional advice and order prisoners waterboarded. It seems like he could have released the memos showing why he chose to do that and what intel. was gained but he chose not too. It is quite convenient to now say that Obama is the bad guy for listening to the CIA (it’s Bush’s executive order that the CIA is respecting) and not releasing your memos…
One name yet? Someone who agrees with you and Cheney? Nothing?
May 22nd, 2009 at 6:01 pmbelaccifer,
Now that you have no where else to go I see you’ve taken the usual liberal fallback position – blame Bush.
President Bush, along with Congress, yes found that the way to protect America from another 9/11 type attack was to use waterboarding. You leave Congress out of this, I’m guessing, because this doesn’t fit neatly with your theory of President Bush and Republicans being evil and acting without the knowledge and consent of the innocent Democrats.
You are a moral lightweight to condemn the use of waterboarding without knowing exactly what horrors were prevented to American citizens because of such use. For a President to not use waterboarding to stop another attack by murderous terrorists would have been an immorality of the highest degree.
Yes, President Bush did not release half the classified story. He didn’t release ANY classified information, and now that President Obama has done so, not only do our enemies know much more than they should, but Americans such as yourself go off half cocked with half the story.
You need names to give your viewpoint strength. I know my viewpoint is the morally correct one, I don’t need the names of the interrogators to be made public, as they were meant to be kept classified in the first place. It’s easy to
May 22nd, 2009 at 7:29 pmpublicly criticize President Bush, echoing the current administration and majority in Congress. Not much courage required there.
I know my viewpoint is the morally correct one, I don’t need the names of the interrogators to be made public, as they were meant to be kept classified in the first place.
Okay- again you have no intellectual curiosity, only a misguided sense of righteousness… It’s is not easy for professional interrogators to come forward and call out Bush and Cheney’s insane views of interrogation but the professionals I mentioned all came forward of their own accord to say that BUSH and CHENEY are dead wrong on this issue…
So I ask again, who will support your position? Why won’t any professionals share what you are certain is the ‘morally correct’ viewpoint?
Why do they say the EXACT opposite?
May 22nd, 2009 at 7:37 pmOn name Ro… just one.
Not a ‘morally correct’ (btw- never thought I’d hear waterbording defended as ‘morally correct’) viewpoint… but the name of ONE professional interrogator who doesn’t think that Cheney’s EIT were insane, misguided and counter-productive…
May 22nd, 2009 at 7:39 pmLet’s ask one of the interrogators in the room what information was gleaned from waterboarding, hmm?
Again:
Weird- it looks like your ‘morally correct’ viewpoint is, in fact, factually incorrect… how morally lightweight of me to rely on facts, huh?
May 22nd, 2009 at 7:52 pmObama’s Director of National Intelligence Admiral Blair, and George Tennet, CIA Director for Clinton and Bush, seem to disagree.
You’re still relying on half the facts I’m afraid.
May 22nd, 2009 at 8:06 pmps -
The use of waterboarding on a terrorist (who was the mastermind behind 9/11 and who was involved in the brutal beheading of an American journalist) to prevent harm and possible death to American citizens can easily be justified by most of us who live in the civilized society.
May 22nd, 2009 at 8:31 pmromo, the torture ordered by cheney was done to elicit false confessions of a link between Iraq and Al Queda
it had nothing to do with protecting America. it was all about selling an illegal invasion to a frightened people
May 22nd, 2009 at 9:36 pmRomartin16985 Says:
President Bush, along with Congress, yes found that the way to protect America from another 9/11 type attack was to use waterboarding.
There is absolutely no evidence, whatsoever, that this is true. It is all rhetoric that has been shown to be false. That’s why I said it is only in your mind. Cheney, Bush, Rice, Rumsfeld, Tenet, etc. all lied about the need to invade Iraq. There were 935 recorded lies. Republicans have admitted now that there was no real evidence that Iraq had WMD’s or ties to al Qaeda. We were assured that they absolutely did.
Why do you still believe these same people when they would lie about something of such extreme importance? The waterboarding was done not to prevent another 9/11. If it was, most liberals would go along with it. It was done to try to get those three to give info on Iraq’s WMD and ties to al Qaeda. Since there were none, they could not! Sheesh. Give me a big sheet of paper and some crayons and I will draw you a picture!
May 22nd, 2009 at 11:37 pmObama’s speech never mentioned what he would have done with the illegal combatants had he been in office at that time. Perhaps send them to Chicago and make them do community service?
May 23rd, 2009 at 12:21 amOkay Ro- you’re starting to lose the thread of the discussion.
I have presented you with nothing but facts… All the professional interrogators who I can find who have expressed an opinion have unanimously said that techniques not only don’t work but are actually counter-productive.
That means, in the opinion of the professionals, they made us less safe- not more so… Leaving the moral argument aside, which many of the professionals I refernced do, these techniques do not work.
If I have “half the facts” could you please point to a counter- argument from a proffesional who is actually familiar with these things and not a politician or bureacrat like the two you just mentioned? Thanks.
May 23rd, 2009 at 12:33 amKeith,
Dick Cheney says the evidence is in the memos that President Obama didn’t declassify. Lets see all of the information, not just the part that he fed us. What’s so hard to understand about that? And yes, I know the CIA says they can’t release them, UNLESS Obama overrules the CIA, which he has the power to do. He overruled them to declassify the memos that detailed the fact that 3 high value terrorists were waterboarded.
If the memos that he won’t let us see show that we gained nothing of value by waterboarding these 3 terrorists, shouldn’t we know that? This would certainly shape my opinion of the technique. Since it is so controversial, shouldn’t we know if the ends in these 3 cases justified the means? Maybe you don’t believe there is ever such a case, but I do – for instance when there is a sound belief that a terrorist has information relating to a planned attack on the United States.
But if the memos show that we did in fact gain vital information that helped save lives, then you can’t proclaim that waterboarding NEVER works and is NEVER justified. You can surely proclaim that it should be used judiciously, and as I’ve said its important to know that President Obama has reserved for himself the right to use waterboarding when he deems necessary.
And belaccifer,
If an attack was in fact prevented, we are MORE safe now, not less as you seem to believe. Terrorists don’t hate us because we defend ourselves, they hate us because we tolerate all religions in this country, because we treat women as equals, because we are politically and socially influential in the world,
May 23rd, 2009 at 4:16 pmetc. And again, the names of the interrogators involved in the waterboarding interrogations we’re talking about have not been made public, thankfully. You’re asking me to provide you with classified information. It’s easy to find the detractors, as I’ve said I’m sure waterboarding doesn’t work in many cases. The point is that we need to know now if it DID work in these 3 cases.
Romartin16985,
Once again, all you got is “Cheney says” and “CIA says”. That is not evidence. I just reminded you of the 935 recorded lies taking us into Iraq. If they lied about that, why would they not lie about this? The timelines show when the FBI methods were used and the good info that resulted and when the waterboarding was used and no good info resulted.
May 23rd, 2009 at 8:17 pmKeith,
Well, if the CIA memos aren’t reliable in your opinion, then you will be left to believe whatever you want to believe. Maybe you shouldn’t even rely on whatever timelines you’re referring to then. How do you know they are not lies?
I believe that most individuals in any organization are decent and honest, and the entirety of the memos will tell the full story.
Congress saw the same intel as the President before going into Iraq. I don’t believe there was a big conspiracy to take us there. I do believe President Bush to be a good and honest man, although I didn’t always agree with his policies.
And I don’t see any reason for the administration to release to us half of the classified story on waterboarding other than scoring political points. Easy to release documents that without context show President Bush, his administration, and his attorneys to be proponents of illegally torturing captured terrorists for no good reason. Of course those who never liked or agreed with Bush now are calling for imprisonment of the entire Bush administration, as well as any attorney who gave their legal opinion.
But since waterboarding was actually found to be justified by the administration and Congress in the aftermath of 9/11, now in steps the President to tell us we need to let go of the past and move forward.
Mission accomplished. Reputations are slandered, careers ruined, and there is no chance of vindication. Pelosi is not forced to show evidence of her claims. The innuendo lingers. And of course the Republican party in general is indicted by association.
May 23rd, 2009 at 9:54 pmRomartin16985 Says:
I believe that most individuals in any organization are decent and honest,…
Really? Including:
May 23rd, 2009 at 11:35 pmKGB, ISI, SS, North Korean government, Mussolini government, Tojo government, Saddam government, KKK, Nazi Party, Communist Party, Pinochet government, Aryan Nation, Enron, the Gestapo, al Qaeda, Hezbollah, Hamas, PLF, Taliban, Savak, Stasi, Mukabarat, SMERSH, CONTROL, THRUSH, Imperial Intelligence, etc. ???
Intel experts: Dick Cheney was wrong about Bush administration moves
By Jonathan S. Landay And Warren P. Strobel / McClatchy Newspapers | Sunday, May 24, 2009 | http://www.bostonherald.com | U.S. Politics
WASHINGTON – Former Vice President Dick Cheney’s high-profile speech Thursday defending the Bush administration’s policies for interrogating suspected terrorists contained omissions, exaggerations and misstatements, according to intelligence officals and the historical record, including:
Cheney said waterboarding and other harsh interrogation techniques produced information that “prevented the violent death of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, of innocent people.” He also quoted Director of National Intelligence Adm. Dennis Blair as saying the information gave U.S. officials a “deeper understanding of the al-Qaeda organization.”
In his statement April 21, however, Blair said “these techniques hurt our image around the world, the damage they have done to our interests far outweighed whatever benefit they gave us and they are not essential to our national security.” A 2004 CIA inspector general’s investigation found no conclusive proof that the information helped thwart any “specific imminent attacks,” according to one of four secret Bush-era memos released last month. And FBI Director Robert Muller said in December that he didn’t think that the techniques disrupted any attacks.
Cheney said his administration “moved decisively against the terrorists in their hideouts and their sanctuaries, and committed to using every asset to take down their networks.” In fact, the Bush administration began diverting U.S. forces, intelligence assets, time and money to planning an invasion of Iraq before it finished the war in Afghanistan, leaving Osama bin Laden and his chief lieutenant, Ayman al-Zawahri, at large nearly eight years after the Sept. 11, 2001, terror attacks.
There are now 49,000 U.S. troops in Afghanistan fighting to contain the bloodiest surge in Taliban violence since 2001, and extremists have launched a concerted attack on nuclear-armed Pakistan.
Cheney accused Obama of “the selective release” of documents on Bush administration detainee policies, charging Obama withheld records that Cheney claimed prove information gained from the harsh interrogation methods prevented terrorist attacks.
In fact, the decision to withhold the documents was announced by the CIA, which said it was obliged to do so by a 2003 executive order issued by former President George W. Bush prohibiting release of materials that are subject of lawsuits.
Cheney said only “ruthless enemies of this country” were detained by U.S. operatives overseas and taken to secret U.S. prisons.
A 2008 McClatchy investigation, however, found that the vast majority of Guantanamo detainees captured in 2001 and 2002 in Afghanistan and Pakistan were innocent citizens or low-level fighters of little intelligence value who were turned over to American officials for money or because of personal or political rivalries.
Cheney denied there was any link between the Bush administration’s interrogation policies and the abuse of detainees at Iraq’s Abu Ghraib jail, which he blamed on “a few sadistic guards.” But a bipartisan Senate Armed Services report in December traced the abuses at Abu Ghraib to approval of the techniques by senior Bush officials, including former Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld.
Article URL: http://www.bostonherald.com/news/us_politics/view.bg?articleid=1174363
May 24th, 2009 at 2:49 amEchoing praise for Moderation(money where mouth is)! Fdyor seemed to oppose the concept of subjugation, but saw no way around it in nineteenth century Europe. In our nation of laws, we MUST deal with our high incarceration rates (with interdiction, prevention and treatment of alcohol, and drug abuse)! In New York State, recent harsh drug laws have been relaxed!
May 24th, 2009 at 4:13 am