Trying to prove it isn’t torture, Mancow gets waterboarded and says it’s ‘absolutely torture.’
Trying to prove it isn’t torture, Mancow gets waterboarded and says it’s ‘absolutely torture.’
On his radio show this morning, “conservative libertarian” talker Erich “Mancow” Muller set out to prove that waterboarding isn’t torture by having himself waterboarded. But instead, after enduring “6 or 7 seconds” of the interrogation technique, Mancow admitted that it was “absolutely torture”:
Turns out the stunt wasn’t so funny. Witnesses said Muller thrashed on the table, and even instantly threw the toy cow he was holding as his emergency tool to signify when he wanted the experiment to stop. He only lasted 6 or 7 seconds.
“It is way worse than I thought it would be, and that’s no joke,”Mancow said, likening it to a time when he nearly drowned as a child. “It is such an odd feeling to have water poured down your nose with your head back…It was instantaneous…and I don’t want to say this: absolutely torture.”
“I wanted to prove it wasn’t torture,” Mancow said. “They cut off our heads, we put water on their face…I got voted to do this but I really thought ‘I’m going to laugh this off.’”
Watch it:
The New Republic’s Jonathan Chait observes, “I think the torture debate would be mighty different if more of the conservatives who scoff at waterboarding would try the same thing.” (HT: Progress Illinois)
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trolls?
…
May 22nd, 2009 at 5:31 pmLaugh it off – just like KSM. Go ahead.
And what about little Sean Hannity? How about torture for the soldiers’ families, Sean?
May 22nd, 2009 at 5:37 pmWow. A (momentarily) honest conservative – who’d have thought?
May 22nd, 2009 at 5:39 pmDuh. How can anyone believe that the CIA would try to get people to talk through discomfort?
May 22nd, 2009 at 5:40 pmAnother Republican idiot. He wouldn’t volunteer to serve hsi country but he’s so stupid he would volunteer to do something like this….GO figure. How these people make a living and avoid homelessness is the 8th wonder of the world. They are too stupid to be allowed outside during daylight hours
In the government, when an employee is a total embarrassment and has been employed so long they can’t just arbitrarily fire them the government places them on either 2nd or 3rd shift to hide them from the public…I hope you get my point.
May 22nd, 2009 at 5:40 pmSean Hannity’s new theme song.
May 22nd, 2009 at 5:42 pmPardon me, but I wish that was Cheney being water tortured.
May 22nd, 2009 at 5:42 pmWhy did it take so long for a Conservative to do this? Why doesn’t Cheney and all the Repugs who think this isn’t torture step up? Oh, I know, because it is TORTUE.
May 22nd, 2009 at 5:44 pmThis was done in controlled circumstances and Mancow had his safety toy to throw.
The true experience would be to be grabbed and hooded on the street, driven to several places before settling down to cold rooms, extreme sleep deprivation, stress positions, and physical and psychological brutality.
How many days has it been since Sean Hannity said he’d be waterboarded for charity? And he’d get a safety toy too.
May 22nd, 2009 at 5:45 pmI’d pay to see that.
Sean? Cheney? Limpballs? OLielly?
Come on guys, go ahead and prove this guy wrong….pussies.
May 22nd, 2009 at 5:47 pmI worked in an office 10 years ago and Mancow was wafting out of someone’s radio. Day after day he screamed about Clinton and his impeachable behavior.
May 22nd, 2009 at 5:49 pmIt was like a whiff of urine in the air.
Cal Malenky Says:
####
And then waterboarded for 30 seconds at a time – not seven. For 183 times, over the period of a month. After that “Mancow” would confess to being the pilot of Flight 93.
May 22nd, 2009 at 5:49 pmDo you suppose the water washed out his lying mouth and he had to say it was torture? On to the RW baffoon…Hannity, step up to the plate.
May 22nd, 2009 at 5:50 pmAll I want to know is who”s next!!!
Where are all the brave souls. Not torture my A##!
May 22nd, 2009 at 5:51 pmHa ha ha
May 22nd, 2009 at 5:52 pmMancow is a Manpig. They should have taken his “safety cow” thrown it in the garbage and continued to water board him like our troops did, then maybe he would get a truer sense what it was really like.
I am embarrassed and ashamed of this country.
May 22nd, 2009 at 5:52 pmSame thing happened to Christopher Hitchens, the Conservative author and pundit who for years denied waterboarding was torture.
Until he tried it.
And he like Mancow found himself dropping the “dead mans lever”, which is an item they are given (in this case the little rubber cow) to hold.
The “Dead Mans Lever” is given to them as a safety precaution, because often the subject will actually “drown” becoming unconscious and therefore the are unable to respond to let the waterboarder know he’s in trouble. So they give them something to hold onto and if they become unconscious then their hand naturally releases the object and the officiator knows his subject is in trouble.
Mancow of course threw his, showing just how utterly painful and horrible it is to drown like a rat, which is what they are doing to you when they waterboard you.
I find it encouraging that Mancow decided to try it, as did Christopher Hitchens, who after his experience winded up writing an article in Vanity Fair entitled “YES, IT’S TORTURE”. Because we see the same results each time.
Those too stupid to understand it’s torture without trying it ultimately discover the same thing. Yes, its torture.
Now its Scarborough’s turn.
Let’s see if his balls are as big as his mouth.
How about it Joe?
Ready to take the plunge?
:|
Or are you going to just keep running your big, fat mouth about it?
May 22nd, 2009 at 5:55 pmI never heard of this guy but I’m glad to see a former sceptic who’s willing to experience it, unlike some others who could learn from the experience. But then? that’s what knowledgeable scholars and other survivors of waterboarding have been screaming since this whole nightmarish farce started.
1. Waterboarding is TORTURE! There’s never been any legitimate dispute to this.
2. We tortured people.
3. Bush and Cheney ordered the torture.
We can’t ever allow our elected officials to forget those three things. I hate to sound overly dramatic but, our survival as a nation may well depend on bringing these evil men to trial.
May 22nd, 2009 at 5:56 pmone word- schadenfreude
May 22nd, 2009 at 5:59 pmEven people who get waterboarded under conditions where they have some degree of control over the situation (Mancow, Ventura) claim that it’s torture. What else does it take to convince people that it’s not a spa treatment or like a day at the beach?
Although I question Mancow’s sanity for volunteering for this stunt, I have to say he’s got a lot more guts than coward Hannity, who volunteers for it and then backs out like a little weasel.
May 22nd, 2009 at 6:00 pmLet’s ask every water board afficiando to play the Madcow’s game. Hey, if a Chicago radio host can try it, lets bring it on for all of the others. Hannity, O’Reilly, Beck, Malkin, Scarborough, all of them. Talk smart, get dunked.
Then maybe we can knock off this crap that the US tortures.
May 22nd, 2009 at 6:04 pmGive the guy credit. He put his money where his mouth is.
May 22nd, 2009 at 6:07 pmI just watched the video and they “BARELY” waterboarded him.
First, they didn’t elevate his feet. Also they didn’t even cover his mouth and they didn’t do it like they did to Hitchens.
Go watch the video of Hitchens being waterboarded and read his article.
http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2008/08/hitchens200808
Hitchens actually got waterboarded by experts and got something more like the full treatment with the hood over his head, hands restrained, etc. And even that wasn’t the “full treatment” but at least it was more like the real thing.
What they did to Mancow was a very scaled down version of the actual thing, and that just shows how bad the real thing is.
May 22nd, 2009 at 6:10 pmHannity is an ass-wipe wuss for punking out on Keith and to Ventura!!
I hope now these conservatives realize the difference between gathering intelligence information by keeping your enemy close w/out torture vs. “torturing” the enemy and getting wrong misguided intelligence information?
I actually give Mancow a thumb up for this, even though I dislike him.
May 22nd, 2009 at 6:10 pmRovesBrain Says:
Give the guy credit. He put his money where his mouth is.
…
you’re talking to hannity,
right?
:)
May 22nd, 2009 at 6:10 pmNow, just imagine that you’re in a prison thousands of miles from anyone you know, you don’t speak the language, you’re terrified, you’re strapped down to the table and can’t push the torturer off of you, and you don’t have a safety cow — 183 times.
Mancow admitted it was torture immediately — well done.
May 22nd, 2009 at 6:11 pmcfp, watchdog, john M? where are you boys? Mancow had the guts to at least try this, you don’t have the guts to defend your positions on an anonymous blog…
May 22nd, 2009 at 6:12 pmBobwurst Says:
cfp, watchdog, john M? where are you boys? Mancow had the guts to at least try this, you don’t have the guts to defend your positions on an anonymous blog…
***
this requires a diversion,
not an answer.
they’re busy thinking of one.
maybe even one with a link
to the daily telegraph of london.
:)
May 22nd, 2009 at 6:14 pm.
What…?
… No punches to the gut, either? No broken ribs?
Good thing he has a “safe cow” to drop to alert the TORTURERS of his distress so they could stop. Imagine, sessions lasting for minutes, SIX times a day, for 30 days in a row…
… And these wingnuts still insist it’s a swim in the lake, a dunk in the pool.
The only thing remotely similar to what the USA has done and what Madcow went through was the presence of medical assistance in case the subject should drown. Then they could administer a tracheotomy so as to resuscitate the subject, and start all over.
.
May 22nd, 2009 at 6:18 pmHmmm.
Perhaps we could convince the “it’s no big deal” club to lay on their backs and squirt a turkey-baster up their noses?
Come to think of it, it’s not unlike a medical procedure that gives me nightmares 40 years after the fact. And, while I’m not comparing the experiences, I’ve gone under water unexpectedly a few times. I think most of us have had some experience where our airway is blocked and can attest to the panic involved.
May 22nd, 2009 at 6:19 pmyou’re right joe. here are my predictions;
May 22nd, 2009 at 6:21 pmcfp-”why are you taking away mancow’s 1st amendment rights?”
watchdog-”the dow dropped 13 points today, where’s your messiah now libs?”
john m-”cheney says you guys hate america and this proves it!!!
http://www.thepregnancyforum.com/pregnancy-nutrition/15320-pepperoni-pizza-dangerous.html“
Good for him.
Conservative For Progress…it’s your turn.
May 22nd, 2009 at 6:22 pmpete sed:
1. Waterboarding is TORTURE! There’s never been any legitimate dispute to this.
2. [They] tortured people.
3. Bush and Cheney ordered the torture.
Fixed your typo. “We” didn’t torture anyone. “They” tortured.
May 22nd, 2009 at 6:24 pmThe next time anyone says waterboarding is not torture, I have one word for them: MANCOW
May 22nd, 2009 at 6:27 pmDaddy-O,
The “They” is who needs to be held accountable least “WE”, America, are held liable in the world’s eye as being a Nation of lawless war criminals.
Of course “WE” didn’t torture, “WE” just aren’t doing anything about it when “THEY” did. The world knows, “WE” know. And the world see that “WE” aren’t doing much about it.
May 22nd, 2009 at 6:28 pmLooks like the next new TeeVee hit show will be “Celebrities Love Waterboarding”
Coming soon to an idiot box near you.
May 22nd, 2009 at 6:28 pmNext, Cheney’s turn.
May 22nd, 2009 at 6:28 pmmancow? … isn’t that a contradiction in terms kinda thing?
imagine that…
May 22nd, 2009 at 6:30 pmOn his radio show today insanity said anyone who opposes water boarding is a amoral fool.I sure wish he would take his turn.
May 22nd, 2009 at 6:31 pmI’ve met Mancow many times. He’s a nice enough guy, but is your typical lying, distorting wingnut. As Cal (?) said earlier, he railed ad nauseum on Clinton for eight years. He pretends to be Mr. Constitution, but was relatively silent for the eight years of Bush lawlessness. Used to appear every day on FAUX News “Fiends in the Morning” (or whatever garbage it’s called).
Obviously has more balls than the punk coward Hannity (Mancow appeared on his show years ago, I’m sure they’re in touch), and would not be surprised if – for whatever reason – he did this FOR Hannity, to see what it was like so he could tell lil’ Sean if could handle it.
In any event, these SOBs joke about torture, what pussies we lefties are, etc.. and while I give Mancow props for doing this, it is a stunt for attention, nothing more.
Mancow will be back lying, distorting and carrying water for the rightwing cowards and GOP tomorrow. He is scum, at the end of the day.
May 22nd, 2009 at 6:35 pmWith all due respect, Daddy-O, I choose my words very carefully. “We” did indeed torture. That’s why I expressed it as such. Everything our forces due is done in our name, even rogues within the system, and we share some level of blame.
If we, as Americans, forget our role and guilt? We’re seriously screwed.
May 22nd, 2009 at 6:36 pmOops! “due” is a typo,
May 22nd, 2009 at 6:36 pmAnd after Dick Cheney gets waterboarded, Liz Cheney should be next.
May 22nd, 2009 at 6:38 pmWell, it was only his first time. He’ll get better at it.
To get the hang of waterboarding, you need to practise it a lot–at least six times a day.
Da Banksta
May 22nd, 2009 at 6:47 pmha! didja see this?
Listeners had the chance to decide whether Mancow himself or his co-host, Chicago radio personality Pat Cassidy, would undergo the interrogation method during the broadcast. The voters ultimately decided Mancow would be the one donning the soaked towel and shackles …
says much about his listeners opinion of him, not?
May 22nd, 2009 at 6:52 pmChristopher Hitchens
May 22nd, 2009 at 6:57 pmFrom his Vanity Fair Article
“BELIEVE ME, ITS TORTURE”
August, 2008
Mancow put his money where his mouth is. He even said that it was Torture. I’ll give him that credit.
May 22nd, 2009 at 6:59 pmBut, I haven’t heard him say that he is against the practice and that the U.S. shouldn’t be doing this waterboarding.
I would have liked to hear his response to this question: “Hey Mancow, just exactly what do you think you would have told us if you had been waterboarded for 30 seconds-183 times in one month?”
I’ll answer that for him: “Any damn thing you wanted me to say to make you stop!”
I would bet that he would de-bunk Cheney’s assertions that there was a “working relationship” between Al Queda and Saddam Hussein; by CONFESSING that it was he(Mancow) who had the “relationship” wth Al Queda.
It’s all fun and games till someone get’s there ass waterboarded!
A perfect thread to end the week.
Let troll-baiting… begin!
May 22nd, 2009 at 7:02 pmI’d give $1,000 to charity for every minute that I could waterboard Dick Cheney. I’d hang Cheney by his legs and dunk him all the way down a 20 foot deep pool for 30 seconds. Then bring him up and do it again.
May 22nd, 2009 at 7:02 pmI’m guessing Billo will have Mancow on for an attack-interview, to put Mancow on the defensive, and to allow Hannity to duck out on the fight.
May 22nd, 2009 at 7:05 pmI hadn’t watched the video prior to posting before. I have now.
Mancow is a pussy. Big time. And using this for pub and trying to resurrect a stagnant career. Nothing wrong with that, but I ain’t buyin’ it as anything other than that, except Mancow at his “best”.
The truth is you can’t simulate torture, whether it’s Hitchens or Muller. The fact they both agree it IS torture is good, no doubt, but really just shows how much worse real torture is.
May 22nd, 2009 at 7:08 pmIsraelis lead the world in supporting torture: BBC poll
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/6063386.stm
May 22nd, 2009 at 7:11 pmNow that they’ve already been mentioned, it is a bit odd that our pet trolls (both of them) aren’t all over this one. Perhaps they (both of them) are having a busy night at the drive-thru?
I kinda miss the little critters since I have a cold and decided not to go out. Sigh…
May 22nd, 2009 at 7:12 pmDick Cheney is the incarnation of Herman Goering. The two are identical in philosophy, ideology and doctrine.
The only difference I can find is Goering was brave enough to go to war, while Cheney cowered under his fathers coattails.
Meaning in hell, Goering will get the top bunk.
May 22nd, 2009 at 7:13 pm…
still no word from the trolls.
my god, have they all died?
:\
May 22nd, 2009 at 7:16 pmBTW. I meant no offense to Zooey’s critters, or critters in general. Our pet trolls (both of them) are several steps beneath the proud and honorable critters of the world and the terms should never be interchanged.
I apologize.
May 22nd, 2009 at 7:20 pmI knew what you meant, pete. :-)
May 22nd, 2009 at 7:24 pmWAYNEBRO Says:
The only difference I can find is Goering was brave enough to go to war, while Cheney cowered under his fathers coattails.
Rush Limbaugh, Karl Rove, Dick Cheney, Ted Nugent, Pat Robertson, John Wayne, George W Bush, Dan Quayle… You name the loud mouth Republican and there’s a 99% chance that he’s all for war until it’s his turn to pick up a rifle and fight.
May 22nd, 2009 at 7:26 pmTo be serious about it, anyone who’s had as many heart operations as Cheney should not be waterboarded.
May 22nd, 2009 at 7:28 pmHonestly, I would not want to be the demonstrator who killed him, even if it did make a point.
Hannity, on the other hand…
Wow, just had a great thought. Rig up a portable waterboarding station, and set it up outside of gun shows, at street fairs, and other venues where there are an abundance of righties, and offer cash prizes to the ones who can stay under the longest. Have a nurse on hand, and all the stuff necessary to revive someone, if it isn’t too serious. Let’s see if they want to show how tough they are, and impress their dates, while sticking it to all those pansy liberals. Offer dvd’s of the event, for a nominal price.
To get the rubes really stirred up, first have a demonstration that is faked, to get their attention, and have the shill act as if it were no big thing; even give him some cash for “lasting so long.”
May 22nd, 2009 at 7:32 pmZooey, if you’re still around, I saw a post from Santo, here, two nights ago.
The guy’s as crazy as ever.
May 22nd, 2009 at 7:35 pmThanks, Zooey. I feel better.
As for the Reichwhiners from FAUX and radio, I can’t see most of them going through a flushing toilet while in the shower without “breaking”. A cockroach in his caviar, or a loaded cigar, would probably kill Rush.
May 22nd, 2009 at 7:39 pmpbeeg Says:
To be serious about it, anyone who’s had as many heart operations as Cheney should not be waterboarded.
Honestly, I would not want to be the demonstrator who killed him
I would hook Cheney up to a life support machine so that he couldn’t die. Cheney could then be waterboarded up to 180 times a month. If Cheney is such a big supporter of waterboarding then I say let’s give him all the waterbording that he deserves.
May 22nd, 2009 at 7:41 pm“I meant no offense to Zooey’s critters…”
As one of “Zooey’s Critters”, I hadn’t even thought to take offense, pete. Heh, does that mean Zooey owns me? ;)
May 22nd, 2009 at 7:48 pmIt’s all relative to who is being subjected to the waterboarding. If it’s the U.S. government using the technique on detainees, then it’s “enhanced interrogation”, nothing more.
If it’s an American citizen being waterboarded by a foreign entity, then you’re damn right it’s torture!
May 22nd, 2009 at 7:49 pmDelafield, you left Bill Kristol off your ‘little list’.
May 22nd, 2009 at 7:50 pmNow lets see Insannity,Billdo,Limpdick,and that crazy piece of crap Beck have Mancow as a guest on their show. Mancow thought it was a joke and he`s a conservative. What do you think they would say to him? Most of all i want to see that smug ass Hannity man up and do it for charity. Anyone who thinks that waterboarding isnt torture than try it yourself and then go fck yourself.
May 22nd, 2009 at 7:55 pmbarfly Says:
Zooey, if you’re still around, I saw a post from Santo, here, two nights ago.
The guy’s as crazy as ever.
May 22nd, 2009 at 7:35 pm
Oh lordy, I hope TP stays on top of that one. :|
May 22nd, 2009 at 7:57 pmPerry logan Says: Well, it was only his first time. He’ll get better at it. To get the hang of waterboarding, you need to practise it a lot–at least six times a day.
This was the most intelligent post for this topic. Thankyou Perry. The Militants we interrogated DID get better at this form of interrogation. Those of us who’ve been thru SERE-C can attest that after you’ve been awake 5-7 days straight running thru the wilderness without sleep, the delerium you’re in after being “captured” makes it more of a bath experience. Not fun but…. Nah, those Iraqi boys are tough. They can take it and they look forward to facing their enemy on this to show us how tough they really are. TRUST ME!!!
You all should be WAY more concerned about OUR troops getting the new 6.8 milimeter ammunition and letting go of the old 5.56 millimeter ammo. YOUR concern about the handful of terrorist shotcallers that did get waterboarded is misdirected and wonderful news to the enemy! PUT UP YOUR AMERICAN FLAGS THIS WEEKEND PEOPLE. WE HAVE ALOT TO BE THANKFUL FOR!!!!!
May 22nd, 2009 at 7:57 pmSheepdog Says:
WE HAVE ALOT (sic) TO BE THANKFUL FOR!!!!!
May 22nd, 2009 at 7:57 pm
Yes, we do. More than you would ever understand.
May 22nd, 2009 at 8:00 pmwell, since it appears that none of our trolls have the stones to show up and post their drivel in this thread, let’s reach back to yesterday’s fun from one of the all-time great trolls, JohnM:
Not satisfied with this little gem of wingnut wisdom, JohnM went on to respond to a reasonable question from spring heeled jack this way:
JohnM never went on to explain why we should be so terrified of people who can be broken by a spot of unpleasantness.
May 22nd, 2009 at 8:01 pmWeird. The sheepdog talks of the “delirium” one experiences after you’ve been awake 5-7 days straight running thru the wilderness without sleep, and does a remarkable imitation of such a delirium in the same comment.
May 22nd, 2009 at 8:03 pmWe do care about our troops. That’s why we insist on treating prisoners with honor and respect. That way, when our boys fall into enemy hands, at least they won’t have to deal with extra hate fanned by a shameful policy of unjust treatment of prisoners.
Humane treatment of those we hold can not assure our own soldiers of humane treatment. However, mistreatment ensures a whole additional level of Hell for anyone who finds themselves in the power of the enemies we created.
May 22nd, 2009 at 8:04 pmThank you, pete. Well said.
May 22nd, 2009 at 8:04 pmSheepdog Says:
Perry logan Says: Well, it was only his first time. He’ll get better at it. To get the hang of waterboarding, you need to practise it a lot–at least six times a day.
This was the most intelligent post for this topic. Thankyou Perry. The Militants we interrogated DID get better at this form of interrogation. Those of us who’ve been thru SERE-C can attest that after you’ve been awake 5-7 days straight running thru the wilderness without sleep, the delerium you’re in after being “captured” makes it more of a bath experience. Not fun but…. Nah, those Iraqi boys are tough. They can take it and they look forward to facing their enemy on this to show us how tough they really are. TRUST ME!!!
You all should be WAY more concerned about OUR troops getting the new 6.8 milimeter ammunition and letting go of the old 5.56 millimeter ammo. YOUR concern about the handful of terrorist shotcallers that did get waterboarded is misdirected and wonderful news to the enemy! PUT UP YOUR AMERICAN FLAGS THIS WEEKEND PEOPLE. WE HAVE ALOT TO BE THANKFUL FOR!!!!!
***
if they “get better at it”
what’s the point of doing it?
to help them “get better at it”?
:\
yours was the least intelligent post here.
:)
May 22nd, 2009 at 8:07 pm…
oh yeah i almost forgot.
jesse ventura went through sere-c,
how come he doesn’t agree with the
sheetdog?
**
guess he’s “misdirected” too.
:)
May 22nd, 2009 at 8:10 pmYou’re welcome, ralph, and back at ya.
It’s funny the S-dog would bring up SERE training. If one does a little reading, one will find that a number of SERE participants have stated that waterboarding is torture. And I’ve yet to see one of those real Americans say that it’s not torture or should ever be used by our forces under any circumstance.
Not.
May 22nd, 2009 at 8:13 pmOne.
Pete and Ralph, you guys are merely “academics” on the subject. Everybody whose been over there knows the parallels of community oriented policing practiced in the United States to how things are done over there. You guys are pawns in the media agenda about a handful of guys who got waterboarded years ago. It’s not practiced in theatre today nor has it been. WAKE UP!!! THEY DON’T TAKE PRISONERS IN SINBAD’S OLD NEIGHBORHOOD OR DID YOU NOT KNOW THAT? THEY KILL OUR GUYS WETHER OR NOT THEY ARE PISSED OFF!!!!!
May 22nd, 2009 at 8:15 pmSheepdog Says:
Pete and Ralph, you guys are merely “academics” on the subject. Everybody whose been over there knows the parallels of community oriented policing practiced in the United States to how things are done over there. You guys are pawns in the media agenda about a handful of guys who got waterboarded years ago. It’s not practiced in theatre today nor has it been. WAKE UP!!! THEY DON’T TAKE PRISONERS IN SINBAD’S OLD NEIGHBORHOOD OR DID YOU NOT KNOW THAT? THEY KILL OUR GUYS WETHER OR NOT THEY ARE PISSED OFF!!!!!
***
“it’s torture.”
– mancow
:\
May 22nd, 2009 at 8:18 pmSheepdog, it might help your cause if you could construct paragraphs that expressed your position clearly and with some attention to your audience.
Seriously, dude, you sound more than a little scattered. The combination of insults, straw men and narrative leaps are a bit much to take.
May 22nd, 2009 at 8:24 pmJOE AND PETE, my “academics” you and many are forgetting something. MANCOW ain’t one of those Iraqi boys I keep talking about. There’s strong and then there’s crazy strong, especially from a guy whose dedicated their life focus and purpose to killing you and your buddies. The way to respect your enemy properly and not overly upset him is to kill him humanely first with good clean marksmanship. There’s a little reading for you PETE also, now get your nose out of the books and sign up for a tour punk. I was using understatement in regards to my experience!!!!
May 22nd, 2009 at 8:28 pmralph the wonder locust Says:
Sheepdog, it might help your cause if you could construct paragraphs that expressed your position clearly and with some attention to your audience.
Seriously, dude, you sound more than a little scattered. The combination of insults, straw men and narrative leaps are a bit much to take.
***
according to his first
post he has trouble sleeping.
i believe it was something about being
“awake 5-7 days straight”.
maybe that’s why he has a
problem being coherent.
:\
May 22nd, 2009 at 8:29 pmRalph, thanks for the Enlish class. Now push away from the desk and properly stroke yourself to that favorite porn site you enjoy 6 times a day. I know you’re good at it just like those tough Iraqi boys!!!!
May 22nd, 2009 at 8:30 pmSheepdog Says:
JOE AND PETE, my “academics” you and many are forgetting something. MANCOW ain’t one of those Iraqi boys I keep talking about. There’s strong and then there’s crazy strong, especially from a guy whose dedicated their life focus and purpose to killing you and your buddies. The way to respect your enemy properly and not overly upset him is to kill him humanely first with good clean marksmanship. There’s a little reading for you PETE also, now get your nose out of the books and sign up for a tour punk. I was using understatement in regards to my experience!!!!
***
“JOE AND PETE, my “academics” you and many are forgetting something.”
sheep,
read this sentence back to yourself
and you will discover that it makes
no sense. try again.
::
May 22nd, 2009 at 8:32 pmwow, this sheepdog guy sounds terrified of the little brown men in the cave
what a pansy
May 22nd, 2009 at 8:32 pmJane E. Schneider Says:
Delafield, you left Bill Kristol off your ‘little list’.
You’re right, Jane. Kristol is worse than Cheney when it comes to lobbying for imprisonment, torture, death, and war against millions of innocent Muslim/Arab men, women, and children in the Middle East.
While Israel was murdering all those Palestinian refugees trapped in the Israeli controlled concentration camps in Gaza during the Christmas Holydays, Kristol had an unusual, extra large smirk on his face – much larger than his usual, every day smirk.
May 22nd, 2009 at 8:32 pmo I see, sheepdog just fantasizes about those “tough Iraqi boys”
to each his own, I guess, as long as they are consenting adults
May 22nd, 2009 at 8:33 pmSheepdog Says:
Ralph, thanks for the Enlish class. Now push away from the desk and properly stroke yourself to that favorite porn site you enjoy 6 times a day. I know you’re good at it just like those tough Iraqi boys!!!!
***
sheep,
kiss your mom with that mouth?
:\
May 22nd, 2009 at 8:33 pmThat’s what i was thinking, too, joe.
Joe, you ever notice that those who feel the need to brag about utterly unverifiable personal achievements on anonymous blogs generally present the weakest arguments?
May 22nd, 2009 at 8:33 pmare you trying to say that’s not me on the piano?
lol
May 22nd, 2009 at 8:34 pmSheepdog, I wasn’t giving you an “Enlish” lesson. I was offering you some advice on how to better reach your intended audience. That is what you’re here for, right? To get your message across to the people gathered here? If not, why are you spending valuable time at this site?
May 22nd, 2009 at 8:37 pmExperts that know about torture say that water boarding is torture. The powers that be need people to view water boarding as something other than torture, for obvious legal reasons. Leaders are encouraged to view water boarding as something other than torture by those whose interests dictate that water boarding is something else. Leaders send out the message view some media. People believe their media.
Experts be damned!
TRUTH BE DAMNED
May 22nd, 2009 at 8:39 pmralph the wonder locust Says:
That’s what i was thinking, too, joe.
Joe, you ever notice that those who feel the need to brag about utterly unverifiable personal achievements on anonymous blogs generally present the weakest arguments?
***
he’s in his mother’s basement, ralph.
he’s got a bong, a bayonet and a
copy of soldier of fortune. and some day,
some day, that letter of acceptance from
blackwater will arrive and his dreams
will come true. then he’ll show those pansies
who teased him in high school!
:::
May 22nd, 2009 at 8:40 pmit appears that sheepdog might be a hit and flee type of troll
poor little guy, hope he did’nt pee himself
May 22nd, 2009 at 8:41 pm“via” some media.
(Too many Urquell’s)
May 22nd, 2009 at 8:42 pmSheepdog, my little scared friend, try to think through your love/hate of the strong and brave Iraqi lads and realize that what makes America strong is that we are better than torturing our enemies. It’s the weak, the cowardly, the (forgive me Sheepdog) pussies who resort to torture.
May 22nd, 2009 at 8:43 pmwow, 100 posts and only one troll, and he really seemed like a raw rookie
i guess they’ll have to wait until the radio tells them what to think about this one
May 22nd, 2009 at 8:44 pmGood point, Tommy. Maybe I should have clarified: ever notice that those who lean on utterly unverifiable personal achievements to lend authority to their arguments present the weakest arguments?
May 22nd, 2009 at 8:45 pmRantingTommy Says:
wow, 100 posts and only one troll, and he really seemed like a raw rookie
i guess they’ll have to wait until the radio tells them what to think about this one
***
rt, i don’t think i’d count “sheetdog”.
he may be a mole troll. his comments
are just too stupid to be believed.
:<)
May 22nd, 2009 at 8:47 pmlol, ralph, did i forget to add /snark?
May 22nd, 2009 at 8:48 pmNah, Tommy, I got the snark. I just figured you brought up a good point.
May 22nd, 2009 at 8:55 pmwell, it was absolutely unintentional and i resent any implication otherwise, sir!
/snark
May 22nd, 2009 at 8:58 pmHeh! Looks like I struck a nerve. And I was trying to be nice.
May 22nd, 2009 at 9:00 pmImagine that. All it took for a staunch conservative to eat his ignorant words was a dose of REALITY. All those who believe waterboarding isn’t ILLEGAL TORTURE now know they are full of s**t!
May 22nd, 2009 at 9:12 pmAs horrid as I find right-wing radio sorts, I must give this Mancow credit for his honesty and for trying it. He didn’t have to, I must say it takes some courage, and i do appreciate his being honest about how terrible and inhumane it is.
If he’s telling his righty listeners how horrible it is it can only be for the good. I give the man credit for walking the walk (unlike so many on the righty media).
May 22nd, 2009 at 9:20 pmAgreed.
All something like this does is remove one prong of the wingnut argument — the one that says “it’s just getting them a little wet; it’s not really torture”.
The other prong is “so what if it’s torture? They’re terrorists and they deserve it”. That approach is difficult to dismantle before their eyes, because they’re not looking for effective intelligence-gathering; they’re looking for vengeance.
May 22nd, 2009 at 9:24 pmo, CFP, you sad little coward, give it up
it doesn’t matter how terrified cheney has made you with his fear mongering, torture is not ever going to increase your safety
and it IS torture, we executed people for doing it, you silly torture apologist
May 22nd, 2009 at 9:39 pmTroll 101 teaches: Always shift the topic.
Case in point: Critiquing the technique in an effort to invalidate a educated and reasoned conclusion that waterboarding is torture.
May 22nd, 2009 at 9:50 pmCFP, you ignorant pussy
YOU are the one that thinks America is so weak that we have to resort to torture and war to capture a few terrorist criminals
that makes you a coward
May 22nd, 2009 at 9:53 pmYOU’RE TURN, HANNITY!
Chickenhawk coward.
May 22nd, 2009 at 9:57 pm…
cfp,
send you “link”
to mancow.
:)
unless of course
you’re afraid.
;0
May 22nd, 2009 at 10:03 pmCFP, why do you think America is so weak?
Is it because you are weak?
May 22nd, 2009 at 10:04 pm…
cfp,
you could follow mancow’s
example and get waterboaded yourself.
then you could come back here
and show us the video tape.
***
unless of course
you’re afraid.
;|
May 22nd, 2009 at 10:07 pmConservativeForProgress Says:
Read this RHF, http://72.3.233.244/pdfs/safefree/olc_08012002_bybee.pdf, that is, if you care about facts. Water does not go up the nose with the highly controlled, approved Gitmo method. If it did, why would it take 183 applications on the known terrorist, as opposed to the 7 seconds it took to break the DJ when the wrong method was used on him?
***
it’s says “top secret”,
are you a traitor?
:)
May 22nd, 2009 at 10:09 pmCFP, I don’t know what is more disturbing, the fact that we tortured or the fact that we have a procedure for torturing. Way too Mengele for me.
May 22nd, 2009 at 10:09 pmConservativeForProgress Says:
It was declassified and released by Obama, Joe. Are you calling Obama a traitor?
***
link please.
:)
May 22nd, 2009 at 10:14 pmNavy Seals are still being waterboarded as part of their SERE training. Should all of their Commanders, including their Commander in Chief be jailed for torturing these soldiers?
“What we have here is failure to communicate. Some men just can’t be reached.”
May 22nd, 2009 at 10:14 pmConservativeForProgress Says:
Navy Seals are still being waterboarded as part of their SERE training. Should all of their Commanders, including their Commander in Chief be jailed for torturing these soldiers?
***
i didn’t know navy seals
were prisoners. unlike cheney,
o’reilly, limbaugh, et al. i thought
they volunteered.
link please.
:)
May 22nd, 2009 at 10:15 pmHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!
Big bad conservative moron lasted SIX WHOLE SECONDS.
So, what about the rest of you conservative P*SSIES?? Bring it! Man up! C’mon, boys, step up to the plate!!!
May 22nd, 2009 at 10:18 pmjeez, CFP, you really will twist to protect your partisan BS
do you understand the word “voluntary”?
look it up
that is, unless the dictionary also scares you
May 22nd, 2009 at 10:18 pmThe stupid troll is still at it? …Sad.
May 22nd, 2009 at 10:18 pmRantingTommy Says:
jeez, CFP, you really will twist to protect your partisan BS
do you understand the word “voluntary”?
look it up
that is, unless the dictionary also scares you
***
don’t be afraid cfp.
the dictionary is “declassified”.
:)
May 22nd, 2009 at 10:20 pmOkay, CFP, slippery, Proud, if you were sodomized and beat you wouldnt call that torture?
May 22nd, 2009 at 10:20 pmCFP would call that “foreplay”
May 22nd, 2009 at 10:21 pmNavy Seals are still being waterboarded as part of their SERE training. Should all of their Commanders, including their Commander in Chief be jailed for torturing these soldiers?
People who argue this point are either ignorant or lying.
Anyone who has visited Think Progress during one of these threads has certainly seen the numerous times this argument has been debunked. If the person making the argument was here for the first time, we could understand them having heard the argument debunked before. They certainly don’t debunk it on the right wing sites. We could forgive it once, maybe twice before we decided that person was just another troll, trying to inflame us.
But when the person making the argument has visited these torture threads many times before, then one must conclude that person is a liar. They know that what they are saying is not true. You know who you are. I will not feed your ego and mention your name.
May 22nd, 2009 at 10:22 pmI mean, seriously, is the best defense they can concoct for torture, “they didn’t do it right“?
Is that really the story they want to stick with?
May 22nd, 2009 at 10:22 pmCFP is too afraid to even call it torture
still has to use the soft language
what a little pansy
May 22nd, 2009 at 10:23 pmThey are called combatants as in combat, as in battle.
May 22nd, 2009 at 10:23 pms/b “we could understand them not having heard the argument debunked before”
sorry for the confusion.
May 22nd, 2009 at 10:23 pmit’s not your fault that CFP is confused
his cowardice prevents his ignorance from being cured
May 22nd, 2009 at 10:24 pmMay 22nd, 2009 at 10:25 pm
CFP has let Cheney terrorize him into a “do anything, we’re sh!tting our pants!” approach.
He’s a coward, plain and simple.
He thinks America is weak because he is weak.
He thinks torture works because it would work on him.
He lies because the truth scares him to death.
May 22nd, 2009 at 10:26 pmterrorism only works on the terrified
May 22nd, 2009 at 10:29 pmConservativeForProgress Says:
The terrorists volunteered for enhanced interrogation the moment they committed acts of terror.
***
so seals are prisoners and terrorist are volunteers?
what color is the sky in your world?
:)
btw,
googled your theory about mancow
not being waterboarded correctly.
no pick up there.
i guess the blogosphere isn’t buying
your thinking either.
oh well.
:\
May 22nd, 2009 at 10:30 pmConservativeForProgress Says:
I am sorry you are confused too, Wayne.
***
good with your waterboarding.
i hope they do it correctly to you
and it only causes you “mild, non-life
threatening discomfort”.
***
and you break that 7 second record too,
you hear?
:)
May 22nd, 2009 at 10:32 pmSigh. From “they didn’t waterboard him right” to “them turrists do worse”.
Neither one is any excuse for our elected leaders ordering the mistreatment of captured foes in any way.
May 22nd, 2009 at 10:32 pmCFP – you really are a pathetic bedwetting coward, aren’t you?
All that — and sadism, too!
My, my. I hope your mother is dead – otherwise she might die from the shame of having a sadistic pussy torture-lover like you for a son.
May 22nd, 2009 at 10:34 pmpete Says:
Sigh. From “they didn’t waterboard him right” to “them turrists do worse”.
Neither one is any excuse for our elected leaders ordering the mistreatment of captured foes in any way.
One of the treaties that we signed bans not just “torture”, but “inhumane treatment.” I would like to hear someone argue that waterboarding is, if not torture, also not inhumane treatment. I would like to hear them make that argument in defense of having waterboarded someone. See how many years in prison they get.
May 22nd, 2009 at 10:36 pmC4P is terrified.
Poor thing doesn’t realize that prolonged activation of the fight or flight response shortens the life span, and he doesn’t have a defibrillator in his chest like his lord and master the Dick.
May 22nd, 2009 at 10:41 pmI guess CFP didnt like the idea of getting beaten and having his salad tossed.
May 22nd, 2009 at 10:46 pmYou funny =)
May 22nd, 2009 at 10:47 pmI dont understand how anyone can defend torture. Mcaine was waterboarded and now Mancow was waterboarded they both say its torture. Then you have the shtheads like Cheney and CFP who call it Enhanced interrogation, and it doesnt have any physical or emotional lasting effects. Cons dont like facts.
May 22nd, 2009 at 10:48 pmThere is no proof that torture gets any reliable information.
If someone is drowning you then you will tell them whatever they want to hear just to stop it. You know like Iraq and Bin Laden planned 9/11 together. How many people that have been waterboarded or who have waterboarded have to say its torture before people like CFP will believe it?
Get your head out of Bush and Cheneys ass and stop being so nieve. This is just one of the many reasons why the repug party is done. Good Riddance.
Im sure.
May 22nd, 2009 at 10:50 pmCFP, I used to think that you might have some differences of opinion and were defending a different point if view, but after this shameful defense of torture in the face of one of your ilk saying it is torture you lose the benefit of the doubt,
You are a worthless cnt, not worthy of debating or addressing.
May 22nd, 2009 at 10:53 pmchingebushchigger Says:
CFP, I used to think that you might have some differences of opinion and were defending a different point if view, but after this shameful defense of torture in the face of one of your ilk saying it is torture you lose the benefit of the doubt,
You are a worthless cnt, not worthy of debating or addressing.
***
i use to think cfp was pat sajak.
now i’m not so sure.
:\
May 22nd, 2009 at 10:59 pmAnd I don’t use the word cnt as a pejorative for female, just as Ranting Tommy’s use of pussy isn’t pejorative, it’s because of how C4P will take it.
I am trying to paint the picture of a dog crawling on it’s belly, whining and pleading and pissing all over itself in fear. That to me is the image of the torture defenders, of which our puppy C4P is the poster child.
Feel the love little buddy?
May 22nd, 2009 at 11:07 pmjoe,
you have a way my man. I struggle to express myself, then you come along and do it effortlessly.
almost as good as watermelon sugar.
May 22nd, 2009 at 11:09 pmI want to waterboard Rush Limbaugh, Mark Levin, Karl Rove, and Dick Ctheney. Where do I sign up? I’d attach electrodes to their genitals too but my neurophysiology training didn’t teach me how to make microelectrodes that small. Does this make me an evil person?
Cheers,
May 22nd, 2009 at 11:14 pmHEY CFP, Mancow is a rightwingnut so what do you mean they didnt waterboard him right? If anything he wouldn`t want it to be done right so he could have a chance of making it look like he could handle it. Or as you like to say just getting some water poured on your face. You wingnuts are really desperate for anything to help out your failing party.
May 22nd, 2009 at 11:22 pmConservativeForProgress Says:
The terrorists volunteered for enhanced interrogation the moment they committed acts of terror.
May 22nd, 2009 at 11:24 pm=======
CFP, you sound as phucked up as that shmuck Hannity. Who in the hell in their right mind would volunteer to be “tortured?” Stop using “enhanced interrogation” that’s a made up Cheney semantic.
ConservativeForProgress Says:
Leftside Annie Says:
——————————————————————————–
CFP – you really are a pathetic bedwetting coward, aren’t you?
All that — and sadism, too!
My, my. I hope your mother is dead – otherwise she might die from the shame of having a sadistic pussy torture-lover like you for a son.
May 22nd, 2009 at 10:34 pm Recommend (3)
______________________________________________
And thus is revealed the heart of the typical, loving “progressive.” Hoping for failed kidneys, hoping for dead mothers of those guilty of daring to disagree with their mandated point of view. ……. not very pretty, but so typical of the hypocritical, hating, cowardly, left. Watch out for Karma, Leftside. I wish you the best, but you never know.
***
all bold type face…
it loses impact.
try again.
:)
May 23rd, 2009 at 12:07 amchingebushchigger Says:
joe,
you have a way my man. I struggle to express myself, then you come along and do it effortlessly.
almost as good as watermelon sugar.
***
spring watermelon…
good stuff!
:0
May 23rd, 2009 at 12:08 amCFP, so typical. Can dish it out all day long pushing people’s buttons and claiming that torture is great. Somebody tells him where to go and he’s whining like the little baby he is.
May 23rd, 2009 at 12:09 amI don’t believe in torture. But if we were to waterboard the likes of Cheney and Limbaugh or CFP or the other torture loving trolls it wouldn’t be torture. It would be punishment for their disgusting behavior. More like an eye for an eye.
May 23rd, 2009 at 12:12 amDoodlebug Shayne Says:
I don’t believe in torture. But if we were to waterboard the likes of Cheney and Limbaugh or CFP or the other torture loving trolls it wouldn’t be torture. It would be punishment for their disgusting behavior. More like an eye for an eye.
***
when they die and go to hell,
if you believe in that kind of thing…
first cfp, then cheney.
for eternity.
:\
May 23rd, 2009 at 12:16 amEvening JC, and they have the nerve to label others terrorists.
May 23rd, 2009 at 12:25 amSheepledog.
Got some evidence that all those waterboarded WERE terrorists? We KNOW not all those tortured were terrorists. Once we just go the wrong guy, he did have a similar name but it wasnt the guy another time we had Mahar Arar tortured and we never even SUSPECTED him of terrorism just thought he MIGHT know something. Were those waterboarded CONVICTED of terrorism in COURT? Yeah I worry when MY country takes a big dump on American values. You are a coward. You dont really care if torture helps or if the people are innocent as long ast cowards like YOU can feel like a toughguy. Cowards like you make me sick. You embarass all decent Americans
May 23rd, 2009 at 12:27 amConservativePUNK Says:
The terrorists volunteered for enhanced interrogation the moment they committed acts of terror.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
You are a COWARD. We have tortured people who were guilty of NOTHING moron. We had at least one guy tortured we didnt even SUSPECT of terrorism you imbecile. What a cowardly punk you are. What a piece of garbage you are. You are clearly too stupid to know what you are talking about. You NEVER know what you are talking about. You are stupid. You are brainwashed and repeat what you are told to think. MORON
May 23rd, 2009 at 12:30 amOkay, so we’re all agreed that C4P is a coward, and most of us agree that he’s a bed-wetting coward.
I think it’s been amply demonstrated as well that, as Wayne pointed out, C4P is a dishonest little shit who protects his cowardice by ignoring facts.
Just wanted to make all that clear.
May 23rd, 2009 at 12:41 amSheepdog, who would the Amish or Jesus waterboard? Or have you already blown off your adoration of the Amish and Jesus? Or do you only bring them up when it suits your purpose? Jesus would be so proud of you, NOT!!!
May 23rd, 2009 at 12:47 amCFP: You’re so blind that you can’t even see the extreme irony of your own comment; you lick the boots of torturers, you apologize for their evil, you excuse their crimes – and then you chastise *me* for being a hater…?
Being a progressive does not mean I have to tolerate or be nice to sadistic little chickenhawk punks like you; your kind needs to be wiped off the face of the earth.
May 23rd, 2009 at 1:05 amp.s. I pity your mother.
May 23rd, 2009 at 1:06 amWouldn’t it be a lot worse if he had the small towell in his mouth and the water went down BOTH his nose and his mouth? Wouldn’t that be worse?
BTW, I clocked him at only five seconds.
Waterboarding was not the only thing we did. Both the Red Cross and the Pentagon agree that there were about 110 deaths in the 18(?) prisons run by us in Iraq and Afghanistan. Both agree that about 90% of the thousands who went through those prisons were innocent and later released.
May 23rd, 2009 at 1:07 amLet me guess, trolls…He magically turned into a liberal and was never a conservative, eh?
May 23rd, 2009 at 1:09 amWhy am I not surprised by CFP? He operates on faith rather than reason. His undying belief is that the white knights of that shining city on the hill can do no wrong. And like the fundamentalist who’s confronted by inconsistencies in the Bible, he would rather lie than consider the possibility of the truth.
May 23rd, 2009 at 1:10 amLeftside Annie, the troll either gets its jollies out of baiting or is in serious need of mental help – then again in this troll’s case it is most likely both. Hopefully it’s parents will turn on the basement light and see what their little reprobate is up to.
May 23rd, 2009 at 1:15 amConservativeForProgress Says:
Read this RHF, http://72.3.233.244/pdfs/safefree/olc_08012002_bybee.pdf, that is, if you care about facts. Water does not go up the nose with the highly controlled, approved Gitmo method. If it did, why would it take 183 applications on the known terrorist, as opposed to the 7 seconds it took to break the DJ when the wrong method was used on him?
CFP, you’re missing the point…Mancow had the choice of calling it quits when it got too much for him. Did the prisoners have a choice? Many of them were picked up by greedy bounty hunters looking to make a buck. C’mon. Even those who might not question as much should ask themselves, “bounty system + eager bounty hunters = Are these really ALL terrorists?”
May 23rd, 2009 at 1:16 amI give him props for his honesty at the end and I sincerely hope that it changes his views.
May 23rd, 2009 at 1:19 amI’m sick to death of these stupid punks rhapsodizing about how wonderfully well torturing other human beings works.
They get no quarter from me. I repeat: their evil needs to be wiped off the face of the earth.
May 23rd, 2009 at 1:44 amevery neo con in the united states should be water boarded for 10 seconds 186 times and then tell us it is not torture.
they are new souls that fail to understand the lack of benefits of torture.
they have watched too many seasons of 24
this was bound to happen once we let the christian right take over the gov
you see christianity died on the cross
May 23rd, 2009 at 2:00 amConservativePUNK 130
You are a liar and a fool. Regurgitating the LIES you have been told to believe. There is NO DIFFERENCE between the waterboarding we did and the waterboarding the Japanese did. It is EXACTLY the same thing you lying moronic piece of shit
May 23rd, 2009 at 2:27 amSheepdog Says:
Perry logan Says: Well, it was only his first time. He’ll get better at it. To get the hang of waterboarding, you need to practise it a lot–at least six times a day.
This was the most intelligent post for this topic. Thankyou Perry. The Militants we interrogated DID get better at this form of interrogation. Those of us who’ve been thru SERE-C can attest that after you’ve been awake 5-7 days straight running thru the wilderness without sleep, the delerium you’re in after being “captured” makes it more of a bath experience. Not fun but…. Nah, those Iraqi boys are tough. They can take it and they look forward to facing their enemy on this to show us how tough they really are. TRUST ME!!!
Bath experience? I went through SERE and you sir are totally full of sh*t. Bath experience my *ss.
May 23rd, 2009 at 9:06 amAs an alumni of the Navy’s SERE school and recipient of the now admitted torture method called water-boarding; I applaud this “man-cow” for performing his publicity stunt.
I would have been more impressed if the board had had no soft material, if he had had both his arms and legs restrained (also in a not so gentle method as well), the cloth completely covering his head, and no method for stopping the procedure (rubber cow). Then he would have come closer, like I, to what the CIA was doing.
I make no claims that what I went through was comparable to what was done to the terrorists or that we should pamper the guilty ones for what they did, but I will lament the demise of our honor because of acting out of fear, in the name of political expediency, and ratings .
As I said before I don’t know this “man-cow”, but he must be a better man than I because after my boarding I was not so verbose and not just my hand was shaking (my whole body shook as I “admitted my guilt. Perhaps it is because he is a broadcaster, on that vein, could this have just been a way to become a more liberal broadcaster and in that way increase his ratings? Maybe he sees the way the wind has changed and wants to make the change as well…
Once again I don’t know this man, but in this day and age I’d say anything is possible…
May 23rd, 2009 at 11:36 amThis thread really degenerated into a flame war after sheepdog showed up.
May 23rd, 2009 at 1:18 pmI’ve looked everywhere and I can’t find any response from the wingnuts as to how Mancow could be wrong about this torture stuff.Sunday talk shows are fast approaching and I don’t know if they will be able to spin this into being a good thing for them.Any ideas on what they might come up with? Maybe since they are clueless, we can help them out. I got nuthin!!
May 23rd, 2009 at 5:14 pmwhen i was younger i paid more attention to the right wing babbling heads, in the belief that one should know thine enemy, but as i’ve gotten older, concerns over high blood pressure and stroke have lessened my attentiveness.
so please forgive me when i tell you that i had thought that man-cow (and madcow) refered to el rushbo.
ya live and ya learn
May 24th, 2009 at 7:46 amI have to listen to socialists and America-haters… to me that’s TORTURE.
May 24th, 2009 at 7:23 pmI think I do pretty well – I can last more than 6 or 7 seconds listening to marxists, socialists, progressives, liberals and other assorted America haters on this blog!
I have endured what I consider to be torture. So what?
May 24th, 2009 at 7:27 pmAnd, we have to then realize that not only did they commit Felonies, but they committed TREASON for not abiding by their oaths of office to “Protect, and defend the Constitution.”
They are TRAITORS and MUST be brought to justice.
Call the Whitehouse comment line 202-456-1111 and tell President Obama that this country CANNOT survive UNLESS these traitors are brought to justice. And the only justice for TREASON is HANNGING. Please remind Pres Obama that he cannot pardon treason.
They are fcuked.
May 24th, 2009 at 10:28 pmI give Mr. Muller credit for putting his money where his mouth is and especially for being man enough to admit how wrong he was, even admitting that he would not have gone through with it had he known it was going to be anywhere near that bad an experience. Of course we’ll never know the extent to which his near drowning as a child “enhanced” the trauma he incurred in this controlled event but that is one aim of such techniques, to exploit any possible weaknesses of the subject, yes?
Will Mr. Muller remain willing to defend, on his program and elsewhere, the use of waterboarding for intelligence gathering? Will he continue to justify torture, even on an exceptional basis, as a legitimate means of protecting national security? That is the proof in the pudding as to whether Mr. Muller has truly learned from his experience, particularly as more time has passed to allow his sense of its severity to fade. Will he call it drowning or simply the sensation of drowning as he did in the video?
Another thing: Why do so many sources still refer to waterboarding as simulated drowning? Hitchens’s chronicle of his own experience made clear that death was quite possible even in the controlled environment of his trial. How would public support for waterboarding differ if it’s “only” simulated drowning vs. the real deal?
May 25th, 2009 at 3:38 amhe’s not even a republican, he’s libertarian. You people are so stuck in the idea that there are only rep, dem, conserv, liberal. Those of you that don’t realize there is more to this country than that, are truly the poisoning this country.
May 25th, 2009 at 8:17 amKrugman After Voluntarily Waterboarding: “Not Torture” (Updated)
I guess mancow is a WUSS.
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/5/24/734853/-Krugman-After-Voluntarily-Waterboarding:-Not-Torture
Sat May 23, 2009 at 10:47:49 PM PDT
New York Times columnist and Nobel Prize winner Paul Krugman, a vocal critic of the Bush administration’s use of waterboarding, today reversed his position after subjecting himself to the controversial technique. “I was wrong,” said Mr. Krugman shortly after toweling himself off, “It’s not torture. I owe the Bush administration–Vice President Cheney in particular–a big apology.”
Mr. Krugman was the latest in a growing line of journalists who agreed to be waterboarded in order to determine whether or not the tactic constituted torture. Unlike conservative talk radio host Matthew Erich “Mancow” Muller and columnist Christopher Hitchens, Krugman emerged from his experience convinced that not only was it not torture, but “rather pleasant.”
“It reminded me of nothing so much as this time when I got splashed with water by Shamu at Sea World. For a second there, it’s pretty scary, then you just kind of relax and enjoy it. I think I was seven.”
Self Identified Hipster’s diary :: ::
In addition to waterboarding, Mr. Krugman also submitted himself to several other Enhanced Interrogation Techniques, including the Attention Slap, labeled by Mr. Krugman “gay,” the Belly Slap, which, according to former SERE instructor Greg Davenport, who administered the techniques, made Mr. Krugman titter “like a drunken prom queen,” and Long Time Standing, which Mr. Krugman shruggingly referred to as “like the Seventh Inning Stretch, but without the organ music.”
Mr. Davenport expressed admiration for Mr. Krugman’s fortitude. “I have to admit, when I saw him, I was awfully glad we had an EMT with us. He’s not really a Vin Diesel, you know? More of a Woody Allen. But the guy’s got stones, I’ll tell you that. Woulda made a hell of a Marine.”
The entire process, which began with a forced extraction of Mr. Krugman from a Starbucks in Midtown Manhattan, took approximately twenty-three hours, at which time Mr. Krugman uttered the safe word he and Mr. Davenport had agreed upon prior to the experiment, “Teabags.”
“I would have liked to take a crack at KSM’s record,” said Mr. Krugman, referring to terrorist Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, who was waterboarded 183 times in one month. “But I realized I had a column deadline. Maybe next time. You know,” added Mr. Krugman, shaking his head and smiling, “It had been so long, I almost forgot what the safe word was, then I remembered and I just had to laugh. ‘Teabags.’ Aren’t those Republicans the dickens?”
His regular readers seemed surprised by the shift. “I’d say I was disappointed,” commented Patty McFarlan, 32, “But to be honest, I’m mostly impressed. I mean, twenty-three hours? What is that, 1,200 times as long as those conservative jokers lasted? Liberals rock.”
Vice President Cheney could not be reached for comment, but his daughter, Elizabeth, did have this to say: “Well, my father is glad to hear that at least one member of–wait, did you say 23 hours? I’m sorry, but that’s–okay, one member of the liberal press corps finally gets–not seconds? Really? Anyway, the Vice President accepts his apology.”
Other conservatives, such as radio talk show host Rush Limbaugh, stayed on message. “This confirms exactly what I’ve been saying all along: not only are we not being too hard on these terrorists, we’re being far–far–too easy on them. I have to thank Paul Krugman for doing what, due to risks related to my debilitating AIED [Autoimmune Inner Ear Disease], my physician would not let me do myself: expose what a joke our current interrogation techniques are. I mean, when a bleeding heart liberal like Paul Krugman can last twenty-three hours, you know it’s time to get tougher. Bring on the rack! Bring on the Iron Maiden! Why don’t we draw and quarter these people?”
When informed of his comments, Mr. Krugman replied, “Did he really? That’s so–I said the exact same thing! Just to be clear, I still feel there’s a line we as Americans cannot cross, but after my experience, the Bush administration did not cross it. Bamboo shoots, maybe? Don’t get me wrong; I still think the Bush administration set the standard for incompetence–the Glasgow smile?–degraded our government, and undermined the rule of law. You don’t need to torture to do all that. The Picquet?”
[Updated because I was dissatisfied with the ending. I do appreciate all the comments--positive and negative. This obviously missed with some people; for my intent, below is my comment to Yirmiyahu:
I realized after watching the Mancow video [last] evening that only an idiot would need to be waterboarded to realize it’s torture, and found the thought of a smart, buttoned-up columnist agreeing to it–then having an identical view shift–absurd enough to be amusing. Perhaps more so in theory than execution, but I enjoyed giving it a whirl.]
May 29th, 2009 at 3:45 pmIts a whole new ball game now, your going to have to explain this article in the New York Times.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/24/world/24intel.html?_r=2&partner=rss&emc=rss&pagewanted=all
1. Rendition is TORTURE! There’s never been any legitimate dispute to this.
2. Clinton and now Obama tortured people.
3. Clinton and now Obama ordered the torture.
We can’t ever allow our elected officials to forget those three things. I hate to sound overly dramatic but, our survival as a nation may well depend on bringing these evil men to trial.
And, we have to then realize that not only did they commit Felonies, but they committed TREASON for not abiding by their oaths of office to “Protect, and defend the Constitution.”
They are TRAITORS and MUST be brought to justice.
Call the Whitehouse comment line 202-456-1111 and tell President Obama that this country CANNOT survive UNLESS these traitors are brought to justice. And the only justice for TREASON is HANNGING. Please remind Pres Obama that he cannot pardon treason.
May 29th, 2009 at 3:50 pm