Sen. Kyl: We support ‘free market’ health care, but we won’t talk about it because it’s not ‘persuasive.’
Sen. Kyl: We support ‘free market’ health care, but we won’t talk about it because it’s not ‘persuasive.’
In an interview posted online by the National Review, Sen. Jon Kyl (R-AZ) candidly explained how his party would try to deceive the public during the coming health care debate. Kyl said that although Republicans believe in a “free market” approach to health care, to describe it honestly to the “people we have to convince” would not be “persuasive.” Instead, Kyl boasts that he and his colleagues will use the “hollow buzzwords” prescribed by GOP language consultant Frank Luntz:
KYL: We of course believe the free market can provide the incentives for everyone to be covered with good insurance but to talk about it in terms of the free market is not to be persuasive with the people we have to convince. We have to describe this in terms that people really do understand and care about and that is patient-centered. They don’t want to get between themselves and their doctor. They don’t want to have long waiting lines, possibly even denying care that they feel is important. They don’t want to lose insurance they like already. Those are all things we need to address in our alternatives and I think that’s the best way for us to talk about it rather than talking about the free market.
Watch it:
Of course, Kyl is pretending that for-profit insurance companies don’t already stand in between patients and doctors.
Topic Cloud
ArchivesBlog Roll
The free market, unfettered or regulated, has failed us. When will the morons on the right admit it? I lost my health insurance when I lost my job. I have tried to obtain a policy to no avail. They will only write profitable business. What these corporate thugs need to understand is that everyone needs health care! It cannot be based on bottomline profitability. Everyone is going to be sick and everyone is going to die. Those are guaranteed.
May 23rd, 2009 at 11:12 amWhy shore, we should preserve the system where Kindly Milburn Stone closes his black leather bag and puts his gentle hand on the feverish child’s forehead and said “I’ve done all I can do..”
The Republican Party: Turner Classic Movie Health Care™ for everybody!
May 23rd, 2009 at 11:16 amNo one believes it now, but wait and see: this schmo will run for president in 2012.
May 23rd, 2009 at 11:17 amWell I sure am glad to hear they support the entrepreneuarial spirit of my unlicensed stripper home surgerygram business…. Small business makes jobs!!!!
Market forces are the shits except of course when they wish to make some weird claim about left leaning media, education, entertainment, and so on. In those cases of course market forces and that silly ass invisible hand suddenly are impotent…
May 23rd, 2009 at 11:20 amTrue enough, dbadass.
All that “medical licensing board” crap is just set up to keep the power in the hands of an educated elite. The free market should decide whether the best (read: “most profitable”) surgeon is the board-certified elitist from JOhns Hopkins, or my nephew Brian, who watched “Nova” last night, is very good with his hands and has a brand new set of Xacto knives from Staples.
Now, who’s gonna deliver your gall bladder surgery for less?
But the government-run healthcare system wants to keep my nephew Brian out of the market.
May 23rd, 2009 at 11:25 amIf you substitute “shit sandwich” every time you read “health care” in any Republican statement you have it about right.
May 23rd, 2009 at 11:33 amThe problem for Kyl and his ilk is that we know that the “free market” health care system is out of control with the greed of the insurance companies. We also know that we already have long waits to see specialists and to get surgery. We also know that there is some bean counter in an office who decides what treatment we get and that person receives bonuses for denying us treatment.
Sorry Kyl, we know that our free market health care system has done to us what Harry and Louise said a government run plan would do to us.
May 23rd, 2009 at 11:35 amKYL: We of course believe the free market can provide the incentives for everyone to be covered with good insurance but to talk about it in terms of the free market is not to be persuasive with the people we have to convince.
Has it ever occurred to you, Senator, that the people have already rejected the idea of letting “the Free Market” (the Republican euphemism for unregulated capitalism) decide what’s “best” for Americans? You Republicans keep making the false claim that if we don’t let the free market decide everything, we have the government deciding what your treatment should be. This is a lie and you know it.
But even if, for the sake of argument, the government would be deciding our care, I would rather have that under a series of rules and laws than to let some private for-profit insurance company decide the treatment I get. At least if the government denies me a claim, the money saved is the taxpayers’. When an insurance company denies me a claim, the money they save go to their CEOS and shareholders. Why is that better for America? Your argument makes no sense.
May 23rd, 2009 at 11:36 amRight wingers really believe that profit driven corporate insurance companies do not interefere with the doctor-patient relationship, but the government of the people will.
What loons.
May 23rd, 2009 at 11:37 amBut, but, but Hannity says that medical savings accounts are the answer. (whatever that is)
May 23rd, 2009 at 11:46 amWe need single payer health care like the rest of the industrial world. Health care should not be for profit. It is a basic right for all people. The Republicans simply do not give a rat’s behind about everyday people.
May 23rd, 2009 at 11:47 am“Not Persuasive” = totally dysfunctional for the vast majority of Americans
Like everything else GOP stands for, their only chance to win elections is to:
1. Lie
2. Disenfranchise voters, strking millions of them from voter rolls across the nation
3. Steal by hook or crook
May 23rd, 2009 at 11:57 amNo one believes it now, but wait and see: this schmo will run for president in 2012.
I believe it – who else do they have to run?
*noun, verb, 9/11 rudy?
*vitter?
*paulin?
Just the fact that any of these folks are even being talked about tells you all you need to know.
*newt?
May 23rd, 2009 at 11:58 amAIO Says:
But, but, but Hannity says that medical savings accounts are the answer. (whatever that is)
“Medical Savings Accounts” means you pay for your own health care. It’s all your money that you have to divert to a “use-it-or-lose-it” account. It’s a scam.
May 23rd, 2009 at 12:02 pmThey are basically a tax break for people who can accurately predict their exact health expenditures for a year in advance.
It’s the Psychic Health Gambler Tax Break
May 23rd, 2009 at 12:07 pmWayne Ant Schneider Says:
“Medical Savings Accounts” means you pay for your own health care. It’s all your money that you have to divert to a “use-it-or-lose-it” account. It’s a scam.
But, but, but Hannity said it was a good thing.
No, really, I listen to the right wing health (read insurance) care proposals all the time, and I’ve noticed they all have one thing in common…THEY NEVER MAKE ANY SENSE.
May 23rd, 2009 at 12:12 pmI am sick and tired of repugs not only being deceitful with the public but boldly announcing how they persuade the public to vote against their own best interests.
When will people wake up that repugs do NOT have the interest of the people in mind, but are aligned with their wealthy, influential business friends and donors.
Not only are 46 million people uninsured (as if the wealthy insured care two whits about them) but the majority of insured Americans are seeing deductibles rise, premiums rise, coverage decreased, and some things not covered at all.
Everyone is paying a steep price for health care one way or another for service that is deteriorating – except of course for the rich bastards who run the systems.
Right now we have an insurance actuary (or even worse, a clerk) determining what is necessary, what they’ll pay, what is covered, and so forth – and it is all with a profit motive (either for the insurance company or for the person who doesn’t want to lose his job with the insurance company).
A bureaucrat cannot be worse than that. Ask a Medicare patient if he is happy with Medicare – 9 out of 10 will answer with a resounding yes!
May 23rd, 2009 at 12:15 pmWatch for the Blue Dog constellation and the Repugnican’t black hole in that Obama “alignment of stars.” It could be ugly.
http://stateofthedivision.blogspot.com/2009/05/health-care-deform-predictions.html
May 23rd, 2009 at 12:17 pmWayne is exactly right — Medical Savings accounts are a scam. The beneficiaries are the insurance companies.
May 23rd, 2009 at 12:18 pmOf course, the MSA are not sold that way, but anyone who looks beyond the advertisement should be able to see the facts.
Is the health care this senator gets controlled by the ‘free market’?
May 23rd, 2009 at 12:19 pmWe need a government run system like UK or Cuba. That is the only solution.
May 23rd, 2009 at 12:21 pmAIO Says:
No, really, I listen to the right wing health (read insurance) care proposals all the time, and I’ve noticed they all have one thing in common…THEY NEVER MAKE ANY SENSE.
Which is their entire purpose. The right wing is taking the side of corporations in this whole health care debate, make no mistake about it. They will fight anything that takes the huge profits out of the business. I won’t go so far as to say they want to see people die, but I will say that they don’t care if people do, as long as they get to keep their profit margins. We are fighting people who feel that if you can;t make a lot of money doing something, then there’s absolutely no point in doing it at all. They will lie, they will dissemble, they will obfuscate, and they will distort in order to confuse people into leaving things the way they are now, with corporations raking in huge bucks off the sick and dying.
They know that they can’t win this one in an honest, truthful debate because they would have to admit that they want to protect profits and not to make health care cheaper. So they get people riled up with lies so that people end up calling their Congressmen and saying “Don’t support the president.” I won’t go so far as to call them “anti-American,” but I will say that they don’t care about what’s best for Americans.
May 23rd, 2009 at 12:21 pm“Medical Savings Accounts” would have gone the same route as private retirement funds during the market downturn, down the toilet.
May 23rd, 2009 at 12:22 pmWell put, Marie (at 12:15 PM). :)
May 23rd, 2009 at 12:24 pmNo culture may regard itself as in any sense humane when the health of its people is subordinated to the wealth of its elite.
May 23rd, 2009 at 12:25 pmKYL: We of course believe the free market can provide the incentives for everyone to be covered with good insurance
This is a statement based on nothing. Where are the facts? If they “can” provide incentives to cover everyone, why haven’t they? Why, instead, do they refuse to cover anyone with a pre-existing condition (unless covered under company group insurance)? Why do they then limit annual coverage, which does great harm to real people that get catastrophically ill? If you lose your job and your coverage under a group policy, why then will they not accept you as an individual patient/customer? Oh yes, sometimes you can be covered under COBRA, but then you pay 100% of the policy + a bonus. And it’s generally limited to 18 months. If you haven’t found another job and are covered under another group policy, chances are you’ll never be covered because of “pre-existing conditions.”
As far as Health Savings Accounts, I participated in one once when I was covered under my company’s group health insurance plan. I would have x amount withheld from my paycheck each pay period. The money was to be used to pay for deductibles and out-of-pocket expenses. My family was lucky that year and we used very little of those dollars. Of course, because it was a “use it or lose it” plan, I lost the majority of it. I had a workmate whose child got very ill, however. She also participated in the Health Savings Accounts. It was all used…every penny. And because of annual limits on a number of medical procedures, she paid 100% of her expenses after about the first 6 months of the years. She wound up bankrupt.
The bottom line is that the free-market, for-profit health care system we have in this country doesn’t work. It’s way past time for single-payer, nationalized medicine in this country. I’d say 20 to 30 years past time.
May 23rd, 2009 at 12:30 pmIt’s hard to think of a more glaring indictment of the GOP than their ongoing campaign to make “empathic” into a curse word. Empathy is at the very core of why we humans are so successful compared to our cousins. It’s what makes us human.
Anyone who would devote their energy to attacking a prospective judge for being too empathic is either pig-ignorant, inhumanly cold, or some combination of the two. And his blind assertion that “we know it’s going to be a liberal” is a pretty damning statement regarding Kyl’s own hyper-partisanship.
May 23rd, 2009 at 12:34 pmThe bottom line is that the free-market, for-profit health care system we have in this country doesn’t work. It’s way past time for single-payer, nationalized medicine in this country. I’d say 20 to 30 years past time.
Closer to 50 or 60 years, to be honest. Truman NEARLY got a species of “national” health care passed in 48 or 49. But it went down under a vast campaign of specious and spurious claims, for whom the primary spokesman was our ol’ pal, Ronnie Raygun…
But you surely are correct, in principle.
May 23rd, 2009 at 12:37 pm“Sen. Kyl: We support ‘free market’ health care, but we won’t talk about it because it’s not ‘persuasive.’”
Well, duh. One can only hope that the day will come when the American people stop being stupid enough to listen to this self-serving Republican pap and thereby being persuaded to vote against their own interests.
May 23rd, 2009 at 12:38 pmAnyone who would devote their energy to attacking a prospective judge for being too empathic is either pig-ignorant, inhumanly cold, or some combination of the two.
Yous don’ unnderstan, pal. It’s nuttin poysonal. Jis’ bidness. Yous’d do da same, if yous could. It’s da free mahket, dat’s awl. Wahchew hate freedom?
May 23rd, 2009 at 12:40 pmI’m getting irritated with the nauseating spin coming from ThinkProgress. I am a progressive in strong support of publicly funded, universal healthcare, but I don’t need this kind of rank-and-file, partisan misinterpretation of Republicans’ quotes to keep me in line.
Is anyone else a little skeptical that the fairest way to interpret Sen. Kyl’s quote is that he is “candidly explain[ing] how his party would try to deceive the public”?
He says he believes the free market will provide health care, but to talk in economic terms is not to be persuasive to average Americans. He says they want to frame the debate around immediate, human issues.
Again, I think he is wrong. But he is clearly not being disingenuous. That honor goes to ThinkProgress’ interpretation of his comments.
May 23rd, 2009 at 12:42 pmKyl’s proposals basically turn health insurance into an actuarial system; like auto-insurance. Have on tragedy in your life guarantees you’ll be paying a heavy price the rest of your life. Good way to make sure that bankruptcy is a way of life for half of the country, but not for controlling the costs of healthcare.
LiberalVoter Says:
Is the health care this senator gets controlled by the ‘free market’?
Of course not. He wouldn’t in a million years put his health in the invisible hands of the free market.
May 23rd, 2009 at 12:43 pmAnyone who would devote their energy to attacking a prospective judge for being too empathic is either pig-ignorant, inhumanly cold, or some combination of the two. And his blind assertion that “we know it’s going to be a liberal” is a pretty damning statement regarding Kyl’s own hyper-partisanship.
The Rethugs have been very successful at making dirty words out of previous innocent ones: liberal, single-payer,empathetic,compassionate………Dems and Progressives just have to keep using those words and defining them for the American public over and over again. Remember Dubya’s advice: “You gotta catapult the propaganda”. Apparently it worked for him!
May 23rd, 2009 at 12:45 pmKYL: We of course believe the free market can provide the incentives for everyone to be covered with good insurance
I’m 54 years old. I had a brain tumor.
If you were an insurance company, would you bet on making a profit from covering me (at a rate *I* could afford)?
Hell, no.
May 23rd, 2009 at 12:45 pmOh, yes, and as for we know it’s going to be a liberal , I have two words: Roberts and Alito.
May 23rd, 2009 at 12:46 pmConcern troll much, pksloan…?
May 23rd, 2009 at 12:47 pmI get your point, and I’ve complained about TP’s misleading headlines in the past.
But this one strikes me as a pretty fair summation of the Senator’s words. Kyl is in fact describing how the GOP would be unable to sell their position if they described it honestly, so they’ve got to resort to language that’s carefully crafted to appeal to people, however inaccurately it describes their beliefs.
May 23rd, 2009 at 12:52 pmPlease, please, please, write your congress folks regularly. It lets them know we are paying attention. Be nice, but make them explain votes that seem to go against the majority of Americans welfare. Give them an “atta boy/girl” when they do something good. It has a cumulative effect.
I am currently letting mine know that health care reform must contain a government option to be effective at controlling the health for profit industries.
When conservatives tell you the government can’t manage anything, tell them they are thinking of a Republican government. How about the military, isn’t that government run?
May 23rd, 2009 at 1:08 pmPresident Obama said that the “stars may be aligned” to get health care reform accomplished soon.
And what, exactly what, does this mean? We have to rely on astrology for a public option for health care reform?
Advice to President Obama: Use some political capital, rally the masses to your position and put the lobbyist’s backs to the wall!
May 23rd, 2009 at 1:23 pmWell, if our health system is so bad, why are people from Canada, and Great Britain, trying so darned hard to get medical care through the U.S. ?
You are not guarenteed medical care through the constitution. I have NEVER asked anyone to pay for MY health care, nor the health care of MY family, even when I had no job, why should I be required to pay for someoen elses?
By law our tax dollars are to be used in defense of our country, not to pay for someone’s living expenses/medical care.
If it is going to BE our responsibility, does that mean charity will no longer be required, since the government is taking over the charitable work by paying for people’s lodging, and health care?
May 23rd, 2009 at 1:31 pmI just had a thought, if YOU want to pay into a fund to pay for someone else’s lodging and health care, go ahead, but do not make it a requirement for everyone in the United States.
I wish to earn a living for my family and myself. That’s difficult enough, without taking more money away from me and giving it to someone else.
May 23rd, 2009 at 1:35 pmto repeat – WONK ROOM covers it too, i see :
Paul Begala health memo rebuts Frank Luntz
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0509/22853.html
May 23rd, 2009 at 1:37 pmdouglasg:
May 23rd, 2009 at 1:41 pmAt my job we have a sick bank. Unused sick days can be contributed to a bank to insure a colleague’s needs in the event of an emergency. It is nice. Do they do that at your job as well?
As a matter of fact, yes, and I am always glad to help out, when ASKED, not when forced.
That’s the dif.
May 23rd, 2009 at 1:44 pmThat is the dif. I’ll help out either way and won’t whine nor expect to be commended
May 23rd, 2009 at 1:47 pmdouglasg Says:
Well, if our health system is so bad, why are people from Canada, and Great Britain, trying so darned hard to get medical care through the U.S. ?
You make it sound as though Americans don’t go to Canada or Mexico to get cheaper prescription drugs, or go to South America or even China for surgeries or organ transplants.
The vital difference? Canadians and Brits come here to get the service they need faster. We seek treatments abroad so we can get the treatments without going bankrupt.
You are not guarenteed medical care through the constitution.
May 23rd, 2009 at 2:03 pmThe Congress shall have Power – To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.
Goody for you.
May 23rd, 2009 at 2:05 pmAmerica however was founded on the FREEDOM of CHOICE. I suggest if you don’t LIKE choice, moving to communist Russia or some other place where you have no choice. Americans should however have the choice. GIVEN the choice, I am glad to help out, anonomously. I will not however stand to have that choice, something I devoted over a decade of my life to defend, taken away. I am glad to donate to charities to help out, I will not stand to have the money taken away from me.
Gee, dougie, if you feel that way, why don’t you stop driving on the PUBLIC roads too? And yank your stupid kids out of the PUBLIC schools?
You know, the roads the poor walk/drive on? The schools the poor kids go to? You know, that they can’t afford…?
No matter what, bucko, we’re ALL paying for the poor and the uninsured – one way or another.
And THAT is exactly what the Repukes are counting on you not being smart enough to figure out.
Looks like you’ve done ‘em proud.
May 23rd, 2009 at 2:09 pmHmmmm, dougie, it looks to me like you’d rather pay for WARS of CHOICE than healthcare for your fellow Americans, eh?
Nice.
May 23rd, 2009 at 2:11 pmThe free market is basically a free-for-all that allows the markets to screw the consumer with the full blessings of the government. In fact, the rules will be changed by Congress so consumers will be left without any legal recourse if the market decides not to cover a specific procedure. Obama can shove his bi-partisianship up his @$$!
May 23rd, 2009 at 2:13 pmNo wonder you seem so surprised.
May 23rd, 2009 at 2:14 pmSGT Stephen R. Sherman Says:
May 23rd, 2009 at 12:21 pm
You despicable prick — you have hijacked the name of one of our dead troops on Memorial Day weekend.
You are a sick f uck.
May 23rd, 2009 at 2:20 pmdouglasg,
And some people eat feces…
Does that make it safe? Does that mean you do it too?
May 23rd, 2009 at 2:29 pmdouglasg Says:
You are not guarenteed medical care through the constitution. I have NEVER asked anyone to pay for MY health care, nor the health care of MY family, even when I had no job, why should I be required to pay for someoen elses?
By law our tax dollars are to be used in defense of our country, not to pay for someone’s living expenses/medical care.
If you and your family have ever been covered under a group plan through your job, you have had subsidized health care, for which you are not taxed. So whether you asked or not, a substantial amount of your health care was paid for by someone else. If you go without insurance for your family, you are playing Russian Roulette with their (and your) welfare.
Secondly, perhaps you should read the Preamble to the U.S. Constitution.
“We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence,[1] promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.”
May 23rd, 2009 at 2:40 pmI will not however stand to have that choice, something I devoted over a decade of my life to defend, taken away
— I commend your efforts on behalf of reproductive choice as well as the freedom to choose a same gender marriage partner.
May 23rd, 2009 at 3:35 pmprofits over care for the sick and needy that is the american way.
it is self destructing as it should.
americans call this self destruction a recession
how is that for denial
No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public.
May 23rd, 2009 at 3:45 pmHenry Mencken.
douglasg Says:
Goody for you.
America however was founded on the FREEDOM of CHOICE. I suggest if you don’t LIKE choice, moving to communist Russia or some other place where you have no choice. Americans should however have the choice. GIVEN the choice, I am glad to help out, anonomously. I will not however stand to have that choice, something I devoted over a decade of my life to defend, taken away. I am glad to donate to charities to help out, I will not stand to have the money taken away from me.
Gee, tell the people who are denied insurance because of a “pre-existing condition” that they have a choice in getting health care. OH wait, those who had cancer should have taken the personal responsibility NOT TO GET CANCER, right?! No one is talking about doing away with the private system, even though I would not bemoan its loss if it were to go to the wasteside.
Props to you and your charity work.
May 23rd, 2009 at 3:56 pmI’ll tell the Senator what. He can trade my health care for his any day of the week. His is a not for profit system, and mine is. Then let him decide which is better.
May 23rd, 2009 at 4:00 pmObama said “getting major health care reform through this Congress” will be difficult.
Expect minor health care reform, one paid for by workers/individuals.
May 23rd, 2009 at 4:10 pmWayne Ant Schneider just summed up the core of the GOP ideolgy:
We are fighting people who feel that if you can’t make a lot of money doing something, then there’s absolutely no point in doing it at all.
So, in essence, anything that is non-profit, for the people, is not worth doing and is therefore, inherently evil in their world view and must be stopped, just because they are not making money off it.
Gotta love those regressives.
May 23rd, 2009 at 4:54 pmWayne Ant Schneider’s statement could be taken in 2 ways, he may have easily meant that that he was coming up against people who feel that if you can’t make a lot of money doing something, then there’s absolutely no point in doing it at all, and not that was was part of a fighting group who felt that way.
Either way, it sounds idiotic.
May 23rd, 2009 at 5:04 pmAs an Arizona resident, I will not be voting for Kyle again.
May 23rd, 2009 at 5:14 pmdouglasg, as I understand it, the free market principle works like this:
a vendor provides a product or a service to a market. The consumer chooses whether to buy from that vendor, from another vendor, or to do without. This dynamic — cost of production + profit margin balanced against value to the consumer, or supply vs. demand — will very quickly set a price point for this good or service that the market will bear. Do I have that right?
Assuming i do, please explain how this free market dynamic works in the health care industry, as it kind of puzzles me.
The consumer’s choice is extremely limited. He has a choice of which insurance company to patronize at the start of the process, if he has enough disposable income to afford the premiums.
But once he has his policy, his ability to choose is diminished severely. If he is dissatisfied with the company he has chosen, he cannot switch to a different vendor without severe hurdles. He will either need to pay double to overlap coverage, or he will face a “bridge period” between the moment his cancellation is effective and the moment when his new coverage kicks in. If his dissatisfaction with his original vendor grew out of a poorly handled claim (quite likely) then if he now has a pre-existing condition, his coverage options are severely limited., and he may not even be able to duplicate the coverage he used to have.
And let’s face it, in cases of serious illness or injury, choosing to do without treatment just is not an option. Choosing to do without coverage presents a serious risk of financial catastrophe.
So, given this severe curtailment of the ability of the consumer to exercise the kind of free choice that the free market requires to work properly, how do you see the principles of this free market being the best model for the delivery of a vital service like health coverage?
May 23rd, 2009 at 5:27 pmSick people without insurance don’t have a choice.
And douglasg is just fine with that.
May 23rd, 2009 at 5:43 pmYou know, when you use your insurance to pay for a medical bill that adds up to more than you’ve paid in insurance premiums someone else is paying your bill. Get over it.
May 23rd, 2009 at 5:55 pmSen. Kyl: We support ‘free market’ health care, but we won’t talk about it because it’s not ‘persuasive.’
The store-bought position usually is…
May 23rd, 2009 at 6:16 pmralph the wonder locust Says:
douglasg, as I understand it, the free market principle works like this:
May 23rd, 2009 at 5:27 pm
Still nothing but the sound of chirping crickets.
Relatives, over for the holiday, Ralph?
May 23rd, 2009 at 6:21 pmI dunno, barfly. douglasg strikes me as the type whose relatives might invent rare diseases in order to avoid visiting him.
Is that mean to say?
May 23rd, 2009 at 6:41 pmralph the wonder locust Says:
Is that mean to say?
Chirping Crickets, and Locusts; I’s t’ought youse guys was fambly, or sump’in. Curious if your wife’s family was over for the holiday.
OK, bad joke.
But it’s a free show, and until the next troll pops up, what else ya’ got? [doffs panama hat]
May 23rd, 2009 at 6:55 pmMy health insurance premiums increase about 20% per year, $5,000 deductible, every possible pre-existing condition excluded from coverage and every claim is disputed.
May 23rd, 2009 at 7:52 pmOther than that, what’s not to love about United Healthcare?
Douglas you brainwashed cretin exactly WHERE are all these people from the UK and Canada screaming that they want THEIR countries healhcare to be like ours. I mean outside the delusional fantasies you have been TOLD to believe? Answer. THEY. DONT. EXIST.
Where in the Constitution does it say we get Public education? Highways? The CDC? Rural electrification? You arent very bright Dougie
Did you think it was CLEVER to say why dont WE pay more so YOU can remain a selfish self indulgant dickhead and dodge YOUR societal obligations? If you dont LIKE doing your fair share get OUT of our good country and go live on an island somewhere by the way MORON Russia hasnt been communist for about a decade. Try to keep up
May 23rd, 2009 at 7:53 pmThe freedom of choice. Except of course when it comes to abortions. That would be the choice of WHAT YOU CAN AFFORD right? If you dont have the means you should just DIE quietly like the 18,000 Americans a year who die of lack of access to healthcare RIGHT Douglas? The choice isnt YOURS it is a societal decision and if you dont LIKE the choice we make YOU have the freedom of choice of getting OUT of our good country so we can do what SOCIETY thinks promotes the general wellfare without dragging you snivelling selfish Ebenezer Scrooge worshippers along. We are trying to have a civilization here and you selfish self involved me me mine types can just get out and go live out your libertarian utopia re-enacting the Lord of the Flies.
May 23rd, 2009 at 7:59 pmdouglasg Says:
.
Either way, it sounds idiotic.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
No it wasnt the fact you are too stupid to understand somethig is not evidence it is idiotic just that YOU are a moron
May 23rd, 2009 at 8:01 pmdouglasg Says:
Either way, it sounds idiotic.
We’ll let “the marketplace of ideas” decide which of us is right. But thank you for your constructive criticism. It was illuminating in ways I can’t describe.
May 23rd, 2009 at 8:51 pmJesse Ventura
May 24th, 2009 at 1:47 amMay 18th, 2009
Rebuttal to Elizabeth Hasslebeck on “The View”
Sorry, wrong thread.
May 24th, 2009 at 1:48 amA high school understanding of politics tells us that Americans have no Friend in our democratic government, of two disagreeing political parties!? How sick and twisted it is for this author to disseminate the lie of such a ‘friendship’, and then to set Americans at each other’s throats, by delineate two false groups: nearly all of us in the first, and second, opposed by all doctors and other health care providers in our country? The fact of the matter, is that corporate evil is atop every single multi-national corporation (including media!) and the injustices at the very bottom rung of the ladder, will NEVER be addressed with this kind of one-sided, biased reporting! Progress is, at the very least the result of the full story!!
May 24th, 2009 at 2:44 amSorry, had to go to a party last night, which was much more entertaining than debating with people who feel theirs is the only way, and anyone who disagrees is treated with disrespect and rudely.
1. If you are sick, even without insurance, a hospital would be violating law by turning you away.
2. I think insurance is PART of the problem. Before insurance, people paid for their OWN health care, so it was inane for healthcare providers to make healthcare so expensive no on could afford it.
3. I was out of a job, and I got sick, and I had a choice. I chose to get medical help, and work several odd jobs a week, to keep the roof over my family’s head, food in their stomachs, and the medical bills paid, which took awhile, but the doctors were more than happy to accept a small amount every week till I paid it off.
4. My relatives don’t invent medical issues. We have enough issues taking care of ourselves AND you that we are getting tired of it, and feel maybe we should just live off the government dole and have YOU pay for our every need?
5. I understood exactly what was said by Wayne Ant Schneider, and the 2 separate meanings behind it. Either way, it was unenlightening, kinda like most of the adverse comments here. Instead of intellectual discourse, any idea contradictory to yours is unacceptable to you, end of story. While I disagree with your stance, I am willing to discuss it. Most of you refuse to discuss, you simply trash others.
6. Finally, No matter what obama does, the end result is, taxes will more than double. Canada, and great britain, have taxes that are unreal. 50% plus, and if you don’t believe me, refer to the links I previous provided or simply google/yahoo it yourself, and see that I am correct. In Great Britain, there are women being told that they will have to die with breast cancer, cause what they have is incurable, and it doesn’t make sense to spend money on them that can be used to treat someone who can be cured.
Quite frankly I don’t make that much money, and Between property tax, auto tax, sales tax, fed and state income tax, ss and medicare, I still pay out over 42% of my less than 40K a year earnings. So as hard as things are, I am still able to provide for my family, why would I desire to make life even more difficult? Especially for something that may very well be in violation of out constitution.
May 24th, 2009 at 12:41 pmBy the way, we do not have a democratic form of government, democracy was considered by the framers and founders as mob rule, we have a republic form of government, elected through a democratic process, commonly referred to as a democratic republic.
May 24th, 2009 at 12:43 pmdouglasg, please address the issues I raised in post 69.
You suggest that the free market system (I believe you said “America however was founded on the FREEDOM of CHOICE”) is the answer to our health care dilemma.
Please explain how this market dynamic can provide the proper level of care for the nation, when, as I pointed out the crucial element of CHOICE is severely degraded?
May 24th, 2009 at 1:03 pmIn answer, “The question I ask, may be more informative than the answer I give”, How would taking over medical care by the federal government provide MORE choice?
May 24th, 2009 at 4:51 pmWow. Not even pretending to answer a direct question.
Um… I never said a word about “taking over medical care by the federal government”. You DID defend the free market approach to health care.
Yet when I ask you to clarify your position, you decline and instead challenge ME to clarify a position I haven’t advanced.
Very revealing.
May 24th, 2009 at 5:14 pmLiberalVoter Says:
Is the health care this senator gets controlled by the ‘free market’?
Of course not. He wouldn’t in a million years put his health in the invisible hands of the free market.
Exactly my point bryan.
May 24th, 2009 at 7:40 pmI guess Kyl didn’t realize that the “tubes” of the “internets” mean people other than the conservatives you are talking to can find out what you say.
May 24th, 2009 at 11:46 pmDAILY GRILL
douglasg Says:
Sorry, had to go to a party last night, which was much more entertaining than debating with people who feel theirs is the only way, and anyone who disagrees is treated with disrespect and rudely.
May 24th, 2009 at 12:41 pm
VS
douglasg Says:
Wayne Ant Schneider’s statement could be taken in 2 ways, he may have easily meant that that he was coming up against people who feel that if you can’t make a lot of money doing something, then there’s absolutely no point in doing it at all, and not that was was part of a fighting group who felt that way.
Either way, it sounds idiotic.
May 23rd, 2009 at 5:04 pm
I was polite to you. Why should I be in the future?
May 25th, 2009 at 10:18 amdouglasg
You are an idiot. One serious illness away from bankrupcy. Yes if you are sick they have to treat you but all they have to do is stabalize you. IF you need ongoing treatment, tough. You die. If you need say a transplant, you DIE. 18,000 people a year DIE from lack of access to healthcare.
May 25th, 2009 at 3:15 pmdouglasg Says:
By the way, we do not have a democratic form of government
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Yes, we do, you wingnuts have been brainwashed with this idiocy and love to repeat it but its ludicrous. We dont have a PURE democracy but to say we dont have a democratic form of government is stupid. By the definition there are NO democracies anywhere in the world. Here is the definition of a democracy
1 a: government by the people ; especially : rule of the majority b: a government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised by them directly or indirectly through a system of representation usually involving periodically held free elections
You wingnuts should stop embarassing yourself by parding your ignorance at not knowing what a democracy even IS.
May 25th, 2009 at 3:26 pmWing-nuts are patients, too, and “patient-centered care” smacksof of wing-nut-itis! Doctors alwaysconsider their patients as the subjects of treatment (sometimes lacking those families?). But no matter what administrative form U.S. health care finally takes, it will be the stock and futures markets which will need to sell shares of all companies-my point is that it is the details of care which Senator Kyl points out, like: waiting lines, follow up care, alternative care, etc. will sink or swim any plan!
May 25th, 2009 at 3:44 pm