Rove: Legal ‘Mess’ at Guantanamo Is Obama Administration’s Fault
Rove: Legal ‘Mess’ at Guantanamo Is Obama Administration’s Fault
In his national security speech Thursday, President Obama addressed the controversy being stirred by conservatives over his decision to close Guantanamo. Obama forcefully said that he inherited a legal “mess” that has consumed his administration’s time and energy:
There are 240 people there who have now spent years in legal limbo. In dealing with this situation, we do not have the luxury of starting from scratch. We are cleaning up something that is – quite simply – a mess; a misguided experiment that has left in its wake a flood of legal challenges that my Administration is forced to deal with on a constant basis, and that consumes the time of government officials whose time should be spent on better protecting our country.
Yesterday, on the Brian and the Judge radio show, Karl Rove was angered by Obama’s critiques of the Bush administration, and he disputed the fact that the Bush administration had left a “mess” at Guantanamo. When conservative judge Andrew Napolitano noted that Obama “does have a constitutional mess on his hands,” Rove responded by saying that the “mess” is being caused by litigation from Attorney General Eric Holder — who is apparently “arguing against the government”:
ROVE: What’s ironic to me is that yesterday he said “this is a mess that was left to me by my predecessors.” No. This is a mess, to the extent that it is a mess, left to him by his friends and allies like Attorney General Eric Holder. Remember, there are DOJ appointees of this president who are in court arguing against the government’s position on these kind of things. I mean, it is his friends and allies and in some instances, his appointees who are in court arguing for an expansion of the rights of the terrorists and arguing for an end to the military commissions.
Listen here:
It’s unclear what cases Rove is referring to. There has been no litigation on the military commissions since Obama took office in January.
The lingering legal mess at Guantanamo, of course, was created by Bush. Obama now must determine “where to imprison and/or try the remaining approximately 250 Guantanamo detainees, many of whom have already been declared eligible for release.” This is complicated by the fact that multiple detainees have not been able to go to trial because of inadmissible evidence obtained through torture or hearsay. The international community is also encountering similar problems in repatriating Guantanamo detainees. Perhaps worst of all, Bush’s kangaroo courts have produced only three convictions.
As Obama noted Thursday, “the problem of what to do with Guantanamo detainees was not caused by my decision to close the facility; the problem exists because of the decision to open Guantanamo in the first place.”
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Karl Rove is a liar. Go ahead and sue me for libel, Karl. See you in court.
May 23rd, 2009 at 1:05 pmThis is the m.o. that Rove has used for years. Do something illegal or highly unethical; deny you ever did it; and when it is exposed, blame the people who uncovered it. Rove is exactly like those criminals who say, “I wouldn’t be here in prison if you hadn’t told the cops I killed that guy.” The man seems to be incapable of taking responsibility for his actions.
May 23rd, 2009 at 1:09 pmThe Republican daily schedule:
May 23rd, 2009 at 1:12 pmGet up.
Screw up.
Blame the Democrats.
One thing about the GOP they are consistence when it comes to deny everything negative that they did. Their motto should be “blame everyone else, because we don’t make mistakes, cause problems, or do any anything wrong”.
No wonder their party is dying. The diehard GOP is looking down of tunnel with no light in sight.
It didn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out what Cheney was doing. When it comes to journalism the corporate media is lost, it should now be called “rating news” because that’s all it’s about right now. The current news stations don’t give a darn about good journalism.
May 23rd, 2009 at 1:13 pmI guess what Rove is implying is that Guantanamo isn’t a problem if you just lock ‘em up in there until they rot.
May 23rd, 2009 at 1:15 pmJust imagine the difference to the status of Guantanamo had the Bush administration actually declared war. Then those incarcerated there would be POWs, with full Geneva convention rights, and could be held until a peace treaty was signed. But the Bush admin did not want to call them POWs because they intended to torture false confessions regarding a link between Iraq and Al Quaida out of them. That’s the long and the short of it. Congress should reassert its constitutional right as far as war declaration is concerned. Have we had a declared war since World War II? Perhaps the UN should consider how to frame a new Geneva treaty for PONWs — Prisoners of non-wars. Rove smells to high heaven.
May 23rd, 2009 at 1:22 pmWell since Rove think that these people should get no trail and just rotten there, then obviously there’s no legal mess for him. Rove doesn’t know what “legal” is.
May 23rd, 2009 at 1:24 pmTrial, of course, not “trail”.
May 23rd, 2009 at 1:25 pmwell, yeah, if he’d just turn his head, look the other way, forget about it, and ignore the rest, there’d BE no problem…
jeesh! and duh! by golly… uppity… who does he think he is anyway…
…
katy here – i’ve been calling it a “mess” from day one… it was like “hey, he DOES listen to me!”… heh…
May 23rd, 2009 at 1:27 pmWell, it is Obama’s fault now
May 23rd, 2009 at 1:31 pmFacts and myths about Obama’s preventive detention proposal
I had no lofty expectations for Obama. I am worse than appalled.
Karl,
Get up, pull up your big boy underpants, and try to be a man. I know it’s a challenge for you, but do try.
May 23rd, 2009 at 1:34 pmThe GOP has been pretty much destroyed by Karl Rove and his Neo-con collaborators. These people have made an attempt to carry out Hitler’s dreams. But they have mis-calculated and underestimated the will of humanity to fight against the dark side, where Karl Rove has been cowardly hiding in.
I know many Republicans have waken up from the illusion and the poisons injected into their veins by the Neo-con doctrines and lies for so many years. There’s so much growing up the “conservatives” have to do. Their immaturity and adolescent arrogance have been reflected so well by George W. Bush, a.k.a the Moron (just look at face!).
May 23rd, 2009 at 1:36 pmI want ya’all to look at this lump of shit, Karl Rove. The same Rove who sold our country down the river, and coldly decided that dirty political tricks involving lying to the American public, manipulating our country into invading the wrong country after 9-11 and outing deep undercover CIA Valerie Plame was more important than our National Security. Hey Karl, would like to go deer hunting with me sometime?
May 23rd, 2009 at 1:37 pmHow’s that “Permanent Republican Majority” working for ya’ll, Rove? History will show that when the GOP failure Bush needed guidance in America’s trying times he looked across the table and saw Karl Rove, Donald Rumsfeld, Dick Cheney, and Cobdi Rice–what “advice” from that group would make anyone think he could make good decisions? A dullard getting bad advice form these clowns got us where we are today.
May 23rd, 2009 at 1:55 pmRemember when Rove said that he was going to make sure that there was a permanent Republican ruling party. Hum… he must have been referring to a board game that he created because he sure has become a meaningless scrotum. Does anyone really care what Rove thinks? He’s a loser.
May 23rd, 2009 at 1:56 pmthe fact that the fat pig karlina rove won’t go on any talkshow or news station which doesn’t identify itself as conservative is very telling. lardass isn’t about to put himself in the position where they don’t question his bullshite and allow him to promote the propoganda of 43 regime.
May 23rd, 2009 at 2:03 pmPresident Obama wasn`t left a mess, he was left a huge clusterfck by Bush/cheney/rove/rice and the rest of the criminals in that administration. Instead of our president being able to concentrate on doing whats best for the US and its citizens,he has to waste time cleaning up this clusterfck first.Now all you little wingnuts STFU and get out of the way.
May 23rd, 2009 at 2:05 pmhey look, it’s proud moron doing his hysteria routine.
hey prou, answer me this:
what makes you think the detainees are going to be released “downtown” anywhere in the united states instead of being repatriated with their countires of origin?
i’ll be waiting for your response.
May 23rd, 2009 at 2:07 pmROVE: What’s ironic to me is that yesterday he said “this is a mess that was left to me by my predecessors.”
And what’s ironic to me is that PigFace MCRove still has his yawp open & spewing without yet being in a Fed lockup.
Larry Wilkerson loves you too, Unca Karl. He has the goods on you, so plz keep up your Fixed Noise spew. Wilkerson’s really enjoying it.
May 23rd, 2009 at 2:09 pmProud says…
You need to get an education. Check the facts and all the information before you start yapping about something that you seem to know nothing about. Go back to your fallout shelter and cover yourself in plastic and duct tape.
May 23rd, 2009 at 2:10 pmFairly typical straw man response. It presupposes that the only two alternatives are:
1) continuation of illegal detention program
and
2) “release them all into downtown San Francisco”.
Clearly demonstrates the lack of interest many on the Right have in actually solving problems.
May 23rd, 2009 at 2:10 pm“It’s unclear what cases Rove is referring to. There has been no litigation on the military commissions since Obama took office in January.”
May 23rd, 2009 at 2:11 pmIt doesn’t matter to Karl. He makes up stuff on the spot and hopes nobody checks. On Faux news, maybe it works for him since the Faux audience is predisposed to believe anything a republican says
hey proud mary,
May 23rd, 2009 at 2:12 pmhere’s a novel idea: how about some trials instead of false imprisonment?
WHA…???
This is exactly like the murderer blaming the poor guy who found the body.
God. I hate Karl Rove. He should be begging for his life in prison.
May 23rd, 2009 at 2:14 pmOK, just release them all into downtown San Francisco. It’s only what 250 detainees. Then you can close Gitmo and move on. I am sure some compassionate progressives will be glad to open their homes to these poor victims of the Bush Regime. Face it they are all such good guys falsely imprisioned bt Bush. Obama could do it with an exec. order on Monday.
Our prisons in California are highly capable of handling these detainees should it come to it. Your ignorance is astounding.
I’m starting to think Rove is delusional and might actually believe what he says.
May 23rd, 2009 at 2:15 pmLeftside Annie Says:
“I hate Karl Rove. He should be begging for his life in prison.”
i am sure with lardasse’s pasty white buttcheeks, he’d be the belle of the cellblock.
May 23rd, 2009 at 2:16 pmBozo – that’s more than fine by me. Hell, I would even be ok with him enjoying it.
May 23rd, 2009 at 2:17 pmmy, doesn’t proud mary turn into a sniity little guttersnipe when someone knocks down his strawman?
May 23rd, 2009 at 2:17 pmProud Says:
Okay, just release them all into downtown San Francisco. It’s only what 250 detainees…blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
Proud, you’re defending a lump of shit (Rove) that came within a whisper of being indicted on the outing of a CIA agent. Since when is treason a “family value?”
Wow. Does someone pay you to be so willfully ignorant, or do you write statements like this for free?
May 23rd, 2009 at 2:17 pmProud Mary (h/t: Bozo) is spinning already. She makes such pretty straw men, don’t you think?
May 23rd, 2009 at 2:19 pmand much like the strawman in the wizard of oz ralph…..oh if proud mary only had a brain……
May 23rd, 2009 at 2:20 pmBecause of Rove thousands of innocent people died. He deserves to be lying in a room on a table with an IV in his arm and a red phone with a direct line to the goveners mansion. Preferably in the state of Texas.
May 23rd, 2009 at 2:20 pmProud Mary uses another sad little straw child to try to sell her week-old sushi:
“they are all such good guys falsely imprisioned bt Bush”
Being detained without due process or access to lawyers does not make one a “good guy”. It does, however, make the one who authorized the detention a bad guy.
May 23rd, 2009 at 2:21 pmClose Guantanamo. Then hold civilian trials for every person held there. One at a time. Publicly. After all, the Bush administration swore up and down that they had 100% rock solid evidence against these guys, right? Well now’s their chance to prove it. I want to see them sweat.
The Bush administration claimed these detainees were the “worst of the worst” yet they quietly released hundreds of them over the last several years, including a couple of 14 and 15-year olds. Quite the desperados, there.
Then, they told us that these guys were “captured on the field of battle.” As it turned out though, most of the detainees were sold to U.S. forces for bounties of up to $1,000 apiece. No doubt the fine civic-minded guys who sold them to us gave us their real home addresses and will be available to testify later on when the trials get underway.
The Bush administration needed an excuse to control oil resources in the Mideast. So they manufactured evidence to justify the invasion. But what’s even more horrifying is that they kidnapped and tortured innocent people for the sole purpose of manufacturing even MORE “evidence” to justify the invasion after the fact. (Well, that and to satisfy some sadistic part of their personalities). Guantanamo was deliberately chosen to put the detainees out of reach of any legal assistance. That is truly disgusting and horrifying to anyone who cares about the rule of law.
Keep in mind that if we allow Bush and his masters to get away with this, then these abuses will set a standard that will be the *starting point* the next time a conservative government regains power.
May 23rd, 2009 at 2:22 pmWhy isn’t kkkarl rove in jail already? oh yeah – obama and the spineless dems won’t hold anyone accountable for the crimes under dur chimpfurher nor will the enforce 2 subpoenas.
You try to ignore one subpeona and see what it gets ya…
change, yeah right, that I can believe in…
May 23rd, 2009 at 2:24 pmProud Says:
OK, just release them all into downtown San Francisco…and a bunch of other piss-soaked troll shit.
May 23rd, 2009 at 2:05 pm
Stop pissing your pants, you f ucking moronic sheep.
May 23rd, 2009 at 2:27 pmand then she says to Zooey:
Proud Mary is one funny sissy with a gift for irony.
May 23rd, 2009 at 2:35 pmMr. Rove is wrong. The “mess” is due to an ill conceived attack on a tactic (terror) and a piss poor planned invasion of a country that did not warrant it (Iraq). The “mess” is monumental and President Obama is addressing it.
Proud, your childish myopic attacks instead of looking at the mountain of evidence showing the destructive practices of the last administration shows to all rational beings that you are nothing more than the dried up fecal matter in which Rove blossomed.
May 23rd, 2009 at 2:39 pmWhy are these men still talking?
When has a former administration ever sat and publicly and constantly criticized the current one?
May 23rd, 2009 at 2:40 pmI thought KKKarl Rove was in prison.
May 23rd, 2009 at 2:41 pmShouldn’t you be masturbating furiously with an American flag while looking at detainee porn? Insecure people like yourself often find gratification in domination and control fantasies. A couple of orgasms followed by a good night’s sleep will do wonders for your disposition and you’ll at least have something to show for it.
May 23rd, 2009 at 2:45 pmProud Says:
OK, just release them all into downtown San Francisco.
____________
Wow… the idiocy is flowing like wine, and it’s not even noon yet…
May 23rd, 2009 at 2:46 pmWAYNEBRO Says:
When has a former administration ever sat and publicly and constantly criticized the current one?
___________
When has an administration so blatantly tortured, for that matter?
May 23rd, 2009 at 2:46 pmProud should be trying to figure out why his party of thugs, five deferment cowards, and AWOL slugs, sent our troops into harms way against an enemy that offered absolutely no threat to this country before proud makes stupid unverifiable comments about progressives. A cursory poll of congress will indicate that there are far more veterans on the left than on the cowardly right. I am liberal as they get and I am a Vietnam Veteran Proud. Please thank me for my service, wimp.
May 23rd, 2009 at 2:48 pmAhhh the Karl Rove spin.. lie, lie and lie some more.. rinse and repeat. The right wing koolaide drinkers swallow it up. Rove is sooo creepy, I bet he cross dresses just like J. Edgar Hoover did.
Keep our troops safe and bring them home ASAP.
May 23rd, 2009 at 2:49 pmIt is a laughing matter for the USA to have a notorious War Criminal, a traitor, walking and speaking freely.
May 23rd, 2009 at 2:50 pmIt is also a laughing matter to have an elected president who promised ‘CHANGE’ but looking like the previous criminal administration with its ’secrecy’ and its ‘wars’… What a change!
Good point, TRoHS. I think the two go hand-in-hand. If BushCo had not made themselves vulnerable to prosecution because they tortured prisoners, they would probably all be content to sit back and count their royalty checks from Halliburton and Xe!
May 23rd, 2009 at 2:52 pmAccountability is an obscenity to Rove and Shrubco.
May 23rd, 2009 at 2:53 pmKKKarl needs some one- on one time with Jeff Gannon- wrestling, to help him relax.
May 23rd, 2009 at 2:56 pmHere’s another Lying Rove Report. Ed Schultz please add this to your “Psycho Talk” segment. The GOP has just sunk into “the depths of bile.”
May 23rd, 2009 at 2:57 pmcriminal
May 23rd, 2009 at 2:58 pmralph the wonder locust Says:
Good point, TRoHS. I think the two go hand-in-hand. If BushCo had not made themselves vulnerable to prosecution because they tortured prisoners, they would probably all be content to sit back and count their royalty checks from Halliburton and Xe!
______________
Over at HuffPo, there’s an excerpt from an interview w/ Col Wilkerson, Powell’s ex chief-of-staff, and he says if he were Cheney, or Von Rumsfeld, he wouldn’t go overseas right now.
Every time I see the Dickster spouting off on television about just how dandy and effective and, well, American, torture was/is, I just see an old man terrified he’ll be on his way to the Hague in an orange jumpsuit any day now.
Okay… cue up trolls saying… “Thank you, Mr Cheney… blah blah blah…”
May 23rd, 2009 at 3:05 pm#54-
Oh my goodness geewhiz, though, what Rover really needs is an r.discharge, a meat hook, & a liter of kerosene.
May 23rd, 2009 at 3:08 pmProud Says:
I just wonder if Bambi can manage to spend his one single term in the White House blaming Bush for everything or might he at some point actually sack up and make few decisions on his own. It is the cowards way out to rely on placing blame rather than actually doing something.
Excuse me, but perhaps you’d tell me what Rove is doing here:
ROVE: What’s ironic to me is that yesterday he said “this is a mess that was left to me by my predecessors.” No. This is a mess, to the extent that it is a mess, left to him by his friends and allies like Attorney General Eric Holder.
Rove and the group you appear to continue to be so loyal toward are war criminals. Plain and simple. If you want to continue to be totally illogical and in denial about reality, that’s your choice. Hitler and the other leaders of the Third Reich would have loved you.
May 23rd, 2009 at 3:10 pmProud Says:
It is the cowards way out to rely on placing blame rather than actually doing something.
_______________
You mean, this sort of whining?
http://www.perrspectives.com/blog/archives/001358.htm
Bush Still Peddling Myth He Inherited a Recession
During a final press conference characterized by his trademark petulance, George W. Bush repeated the myth that opened his presidency. Defending his failed stewardship of the economy, President Bush falsely claimed Monday, “I inherited a recession.”
Of course, that didn’t stop the double-dipping President Bush from pretending otherwise. Responding to a reporter’s assertion that “a lot of people, including Republicans, including some members of your own administration, have been disappointed at the execution of some of your ideals, whether Iraq or Katrina or the economy,” Bush delivered a whopper made to order in rationalizing the worst eight-year economic performance in modern presidential history:
“In terms of the economy, look, I inherited a recession…”
Pease confirm… is this the sort of Presidential whining you were referring to?
May 23rd, 2009 at 3:16 pmProud Says:
While all the anger Zooey, it’s memorial day weekend, shouldn’t you and your “progressive” friends be out spitting on troops or burning a flag instead of being here… Just a thought.
Proud,
As a liberal and a veteran, let me be among the first to tell you to go fu(k yourself.
May 23rd, 2009 at 3:18 pmEmails Karl. Where are the emails.
May 23rd, 2009 at 3:23 pmWayne Ant Schneider Says:
Proud Says:
While all the anger Zooey, it’s memorial day weekend, shouldn’t you and your “progressive” friends be out spitting on troops or burning a flag instead of being here… Just a thought.
Proud,
As a liberal and a veteran, let me be among the first to tell you to go fu(k yourself.
May 23rd, 2009 at 3:18 pm
———————————————
As a liberal, a Critter, a veteran’s wife, a veteran’s daughter, and a patriotic American, let me be the second to tell you to go fu(ck yourself.
May 23rd, 2009 at 3:32 pmhellinabucket Says:
Emails Karl. Where are the emails.
He deleted them. In violation of federal law. And he knew it was illegal to do so. But he didn’t care, because he always felt he was above the law. I guess that’s what comes from being friends with the Bush family.
May 23rd, 2009 at 3:33 pmSo there are DOJ appointees of Obama arguing against the government’s position, according to Rove ?
WTF He’s saying the US government is arguing against itself !?
Oh, and one of those “convictions” was Australian David Hicks,
May 23rd, 2009 at 3:35 pmwho only agreed to a plea bargain to save what sanity he had left after years of solitary confinement. Part of that agreement was a gag order naturally.
I’m a veteran’s daughter too, Proud.
Go fcuk yourself.
May 23rd, 2009 at 3:45 pmKasinca, Wayne – thank you for your service!
Respectfully and proudly,
~A
May 23rd, 2009 at 3:47 pmHas anyone noticed how much Rove looks like Porky the Pig?
May 23rd, 2009 at 3:48 pmYeah, why isn’t rat-butt Rove in prison for treason? Is Ruppert Murdoch harboring a criminal and traitor by giving rat-butt Rove a job?
May 23rd, 2009 at 3:50 pmRove, the turd that never blossomed…
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/cheney/chapters/pushing_the_envelope_on_presi/
See, the mess, turdsy, started when Addington and Cheney circumvented Geneva
May 23rd, 2009 at 4:05 pmWell, well, well… Turd Blossom strikes again. Revising history as we know it. Poor Karl. His only claim to fame is getting a complete moron elected to the U.S. Now he is reduced to try to defend himself and his former boss from the distain they deserve. Karl and Cheney should appear together at press conferences. That will send the Moderates and Independants fleeing the Republican Party in droves.
May 23rd, 2009 at 4:08 pmThere goes Proud with his America hating again.
May 23rd, 2009 at 4:08 pmProud Mary keeps on spinning
Progressives keep on winning
Why such a pansy, proud?
Real Americans aren’t too scared to imprison terrorists in supermax prisons, why are you?
May 23rd, 2009 at 4:09 pmProuds flag lapel pin was made in North Korea
May 23rd, 2009 at 4:12 pmWhen you’ve got nothing … make shit up.
First rule in the GOP playbook.
May 23rd, 2009 at 4:14 pmXisithrus Says:
——————————————————————————–
Rove, the turd that never blossomed…
David S. Addington, Cheney’s general counsel, set the new legal agenda in a blunt memorandum shortly after the CIA delegation returned to Langley. Geneva’s “strict limits on questioning of enemy prisoners,” he wrote on Jan. 25, 2002, hobbled efforts “to quickly obtain information from captured terrorists.”
David S(hithead) Addington ia one of the the dumbest constitutional lawyers on Earth and one of the most evil lawyers walking the face of the Earth!!!
THIS GAWDAMNED BASTARD SHOULD BE SHACKLED WITH THE ENTIRE CHENEY FAMILY AND SENT TO THE HAGUE!!!!!!!!!
May 23rd, 2009 at 4:17 pmWith provocative words like these:
memorial day weekend, shouldn’t you and your “progressive” friends be out spitting on troops or burning a flag instead of being here… Just a thought.
I can certainly see why some may rise to the bait, but do you really have to use the name Mary in vain? Isn’t there a more appropriate name like Pride Goes Before A Fall or something like that for him?
May 23rd, 2009 at 4:20 pmSorry, mary lacewing. You didn’t deserve to have your name sullied by association with a pants-wetting troll.
May 23rd, 2009 at 4:21 pmBTW, Prod, the proper way to dispose of a flag is to burn it.
http://www.usa-flag-site.org/faq/disposal.shtml
May 23rd, 2009 at 4:22 pmThanks ralph! I appreciate that. The prideful one is just here to start a fight after all.
May 23rd, 2009 at 4:25 pmJust for you, Proud, I might just go burn my faded, tattered flag and watch the less than enlightened [YOU] have a conniption fit.
May 23rd, 2009 at 4:29 pmHey Prou-ou-d! Another veteran sez get bent. The most vile thing someone can do to the military is use it for its own ends, rather than for the defense of all Americans.
May 23rd, 2009 at 4:31 pmRove does his distraction job well–every second people a laughing at him, they aren’t indicting the rest of the Bush crime cabal and pointing out to Cheney that 9-11 happened on their watch.
May 23rd, 2009 at 4:34 pmNow what are we to do about this Rove guy? The righties are masters at spinning and I think we allow them to frame issues way too much. This is an area the left needs to be more assertive in.
I don’t think we can allow Rove and his gang to put his lies out there without a strong rebuttal.
The bastards made a big mess over at Guantanamo, hurting this country in numerous ways as a result, and they still find a way to make lemonade out of it.
The left has to get out there and mock Rove’s assertions and challenge their veracity.
May 23rd, 2009 at 4:34 pmAbove the Clouds, I can certainly see why you see Rove as a distraction but the I think the left needs to discredit him and then move the conversation towards our concerns.
And as much as I would love it if someone would challenge Cheney re: 9/11 having happened on his watch (not to mention the coincidence that he was running all those overlapping war games that day) I’m certainly not going to hold my breath.
May 23rd, 2009 at 4:38 pmRove may be good at spinning but people are wise to his yarns and it did no good in 2006 or 2008.
May 23rd, 2009 at 4:39 pmBut, if anyone is interested in how this framing is done and how to keep stifle this framing google George Lakoff.
May 23rd, 2009 at 4:42 pmThese are Nazi’s pure and simple. And Obamo is a Nazi too.
May 23rd, 2009 at 4:44 pmPolitics aside…Some language here:
Matt 12:34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.
May 23rd, 2009 at 4:47 pmI loved it when election night when Karl was on Faux News when he told the panel if McCain gets Ohio, he may have a chance, That was when Brit Hume told him, “Uh, Karl, they just announced Ohio went to Obama.” He looked like someone peed in his Cheerios.
May 23rd, 2009 at 4:49 pmP.D.
Folks like kkkarl actually LIKE pee in their cheerios.
May 23rd, 2009 at 4:50 pmi vote to name it ‘proud moron’.
i too share the name mary, but to degrade a great song, even worse…
May 23rd, 2009 at 4:54 pmHans Michael Frank
May 23rd, 2009 at 4:54 pmGovernor-General of Occupied Poland
Hung for War Crimes and Crimes Against Humanity
Nuremberg Germany, October 16, 1946
… and Porky Pig is way too cute and sweet to be slandered too…
May 23rd, 2009 at 4:56 pmDidn’t Karl testify last week? What the Hell happened with that? I haven’t heard a thing.
May 23rd, 2009 at 4:56 pmrodeored, go back and read your history book, hon…
maybe you should give your rattled ol’ head a break, from getting tossed onto it…
May 23rd, 2009 at 4:59 pmhell, you don’t even need a history book… google is amazing…
May 23rd, 2009 at 5:00 pmlook it up…
ProudMoron you ignorant piece of garbage. What a cowardly punk you are. Better not smoke around those strawman arguments you like to make. No one is talking about just releasing them rather give them a trial and release the ones that we have no evidence did anything wrong. It is anathema to the rule of law AND to civilized decent people to lock people away because they MIGHT be bad guys. You dont really care though because you are a coward. You snivel under your mommys bed. The scary brown guys are going to get me WWWWAAAHHHHHH mommy. You are too stupid to contribute to the conversation ProudMoron. Too ignorant. Too cowardly. Too much of a punkass troll. What a waste of life you are
May 23rd, 2009 at 5:03 pmHey Proud, as the son of a WW2 veteran and brother of a Vietnam veteran………………FU(K YOU!!!
May 23rd, 2009 at 5:05 pmProudMoron. He said he would close it within a year you ignorant cowardly PUNK. You are a worthless piece of huyman debris. Just go kill yourself. Wrap that plastic around your head, so the scary brown guys wont get you then duct tape yourself into a little cocoon then go to sleep. You have nothing to offer the world. You are too stupid to contribute in any way. You are a festering herpes sore on the butt of humanity.
May 23rd, 2009 at 5:06 pmProudMoron Says:
I just wonder if Bambi
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
You are a pig. You are toilet licking scum. A piece of garbage is far more noble than you will ever be. You are stupid. You are a coward and a punk. You are brainwashed and the washing took place in a thimble. You could put all the decency you have ever had in your life put it in a thimble and have plenty of room left for your brain, two raisens and Dick Cheneys heart. Just go kill yourself. No one is ever going to love you or respect you. You are stupid and disgusting. Your stench is horrific. Your putrid being is an insult to our entire species. Just go kill yourself. You serve no purpose. You dont even try to do right. Do the right thing to stop your constant embarssment to decent Americans and just go kill yourself
May 23rd, 2009 at 5:11 pmPerfect description of a RePugniScum…Thanks for that…
May 23rd, 2009 at 5:11 pm“Nazi Conspiracy & Aggression”
May 23rd, 2009 at 5:12 pmOffice of United States – Chief of Counsel For Prosecution of Axis Criminality, Nuremberg
Proud Says:
“While all the anger Zooey, it’s memorial day weekend, shouldn’t you and your “progressive” friends be out spitting on troops or burning a flag instead of being here… Just a thought.”
Hey proud, can you name one “progressive” that had spat on our troops or burned a flag? How about a photograph depicting such a scene? I didn’t think so. However, what I can write to you with absolute certainty, is that you apparently voted for a president bush/cheney (twice), and they didn’t spit on anyone or burn any flags either. But they did have the wrong country invaded after 9-11 (Iraq instead of Afghanistan) and it was through their decisions and policies that killed 4,218 American service men and women, and wounded another 31,156 American soldiers in Iraq. Not that you care, but what about the death of hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqis, half of which consist of women and children.
Proud, you’re much like the rest of the neo-conservative crowd, still ignorantly proud of your voting record while the corpses of brave American troops decompose within their coffins.
I behalf of all Americans who never supported this unjustifiable war and occupation of Iraq…F uck You and thanks for nothing.
May 23rd, 2009 at 5:18 pmKarl,
everything is Obama’s fault. 9-11, Iraq everything.
May 23rd, 2009 at 5:19 pmWe all wish that you, yellow-Dick, clueless Rummy and fishing-Bush never shown up on the face of this earth and never been in public life. Then the world would be a much better place.
Go, take Yellow-Dick by the hand and go back into the un-disclosed cave where you came from.
alternatives?
obama is of course right, the mess would not exist had the prison at guantanamo never been opened.
May 23rd, 2009 at 5:21 pmthe prisoners could easily have undergone questioning in place, and then turned over to the militias of the afghan warlords allied with the coalition forces; or their captors in the case of those subsequently detained.
the traditional fate of prisoners among afghan militias is somewhat gruesome; but the results would have removed any u.s. dilemma over their fate and would have precluded the need for any prison to hold them.
it would have been most unfortunate for the many detainees who have been determined non-threatening; but oy vey, at least that guantanamo mess wouldn’t exist today.
i’m not knocking obama, nor am i praising bush; i’m just saying that criticizing and condemning something is easy when it’s taken out of the context in which it was it made…
because for ALL of it you hear from ALL quarters, there’s never once been a whisper of a viable alternative.
and ironically, in keeping his promise to close the prison, obama himself is encountering some of the very same obstacles that led to its creation in the first place.
EugeneDebs – wow…just wow! Most of the time I can appreciate your postings, but the last couple of been way extreme. Encouraging someone to commit suicide, even a jerk like Proud, is way over the top. You don’t represent progressives/liberals at all well when you do this. Please stop!
May 23rd, 2009 at 5:24 pmWhat’s it going to take to rid us of these corrupt,lying, finger-pointing, unaccountable SoBs?
May 23rd, 2009 at 5:27 pmHermann Goering
May 23rd, 2009 at 5:28 pmPost Election Speech, Germany, 1934
Quoted at the War Crimes Trials, Nuremberg, 1945
Proud is displaying his frustration and desperation here today — that, and probably a few too many Miller Lites.
He is usually illogical and unreasonable, but today, he should be completely ignored.
May 23rd, 2009 at 5:30 pmActually, it was George Bush, Condi Rice, Colin Powell and John McCain who joined with Obama in desiring to close Gitmo.
May 23rd, 2009 at 5:32 pmProud has facts wrong again.
Marie Says:
What’s it going to take to rid us of these corrupt,lying, finger-pointing, unaccountable SoBs?
REVOLUTION
May 23rd, 2009 at 5:34 pmWayneBro – this is what I just posted a few minutes ago on the Washington Monthly website. And it is precisely why this issue is even larger than either a moral/ethical one or a so-called legal one.
If all the detainees in Gitmo (and let’s not forget what’s going on in Bargram in Afghanistan) had actually been captured on the battlefield, they should have been designated P.O.W.s and afforded appropriate protections and decent humanity as spelled out in the Geneva Conventions. And all of us have heard about the probable percentage of totally innocent people we are holding…it’s high. Bottom line, which I’ve said before…if the government can go outside the law of our Constitution and our treaties to use against “aliens,” they can also do the same to American citizens that they decide are a threat. And that could easily include a political/ideological threat…not a physical one. This is NOT about being soft on “terrorists;” this is an effort to ensure that such methods are also never used on our own citizens.
May 23rd, 2009 at 5:35 pmRove has become unhinged. He makes about as much sense as Rummy or Ashcroft. The patients have been running the asylum.
May 23rd, 2009 at 5:53 pmproud mary,
May 23rd, 2009 at 5:54 pmi can’t think of anything more disrespectful to our troops and our country than pussying out on military service via deferments like 5 deferment dick and anal cyst limpballs, can you?
Proud Says:
While all the anger Zooey, it’s memorial day weekend, shouldn’t you and your “progressive” friends be out spitting on troops or burning a flag instead of being here… Just a thought.
Proud,
As a liberal and a veteran, let me be among the first to tell you to go fu(k yourself.
May I join you guys? hehe. Proud also as a liberal and a veteran… go eff youself. I’ll be at the cemetary tomorrow leaving flowers for a friend who drowned in a tank at the bottom of the Euphrates River shortly before the war “officially” began. You sir are a moron.
May 23rd, 2009 at 5:59 pmProud,
We don’t spit on the flag. Even when you wrap yourself in it.
May 23rd, 2009 at 6:06 pmDon’t forget that the purpose of the torture was to find justification for a larger crime—the illegal invasion and destruction of Iraq.
May 23rd, 2009 at 6:08 pmLeftside Annie Says:
——————————————————————————–
I’m a veteran’s daughter too, Proud.
Go fcuk yourself.
I’m a veteran’s daughter, too, and, what she said.
May 23rd, 2009 at 6:26 pmProud Says:
.. spitting on troops or burning a flag instead of being here… Just a thought.
No need to spit on the flag; the right has placed it outside the dumpster containing the America they’ve burned to ashes.
May 23rd, 2009 at 6:41 pmGeeze you guys. Proud dropped a turd at post #Thirtyfreekin’nine, and you’re still chewing on him!
Good job…
May 23rd, 2009 at 6:46 pmI felt the need to bring this back, for some reason it was completely ignored….
May 23rd, 2009 at 6:49 pmThere tends to many vets and friends of vets here. I realize it is unfortunate and I apologize for asking and understanding if you wish not to share but have any of you ever witnessed a spit event?
May 23rd, 2009 at 6:51 pmdbadass Says:
There tends to many vets and friends of vets here. I realize it is unfortunate and I apologize for asking and understanding if you wish not to share but have any of you ever witnessed a spit event?
What the hell is that? Care to share with us where your head is at? maybe we can help stuff it up there a little further…
May 23rd, 2009 at 6:56 pmdbadass <—- badass my ass, more like DUMBASS!
May 23rd, 2009 at 6:57 pmNever. Not once, dbadass.
May 23rd, 2009 at 6:58 pmA simple request for primary documentation of the suggestion that vets are regularly spit upon by private citizens. It is very similar to the time I asked people who had actually witnessed a flag burning to share their experience.
Why are you uptight about this? There is nothing offensive or disrespectful in play here…
May 23rd, 2009 at 6:59 pmWhats your point dumbass?
May 23rd, 2009 at 7:01 pmin keeping his promise to close the prison, obama himself is encountering some of the very same obstacles that led to its creation in the first place.
Please list these articles, so I can refute them, point by point. Hyperbole is cheap.
May 23rd, 2009 at 7:01 pmI felt the need to bring this back, for some reason it was completely ignored….
And ignored for good reason….
May 23rd, 2009 at 7:03 pmWheresTheFence:
May 23rd, 2009 at 7:05 pmIt is spelled dbadass. The point is simple. The collection of empirical data relative to the dynamics and frequency of vets being spit upon.
On rare occasions, I’ve heard vets at the VA hospital mention something about being spit on. All the other Viet Nam veterans’ look at the guy claiming this as if he just farted, but they’re too polite to say anything about it.
May 23rd, 2009 at 7:07 pmXisithrus Says:
But, if anyone is interested in how this framing is done and how to keep stifle this framing google George Lakoff.
That’s where I learned all about “framing.”
A good example is the question of what to do in Iraq. If you frame the issue as one of “What defines winning?”, it’s too easy to get caught up in discussions on how many years the troops will have to remain. But if you frame the issue as “How do we get out of an illegal war and occupation that we started?”, I don’t think anyone will be talking about taking years to bring the troops home. They’ll have that down to months. It’s all in how you frame the issue.
May 23rd, 2009 at 7:07 pmThe collection of empirical data relative to the dynamics and frequency of vets being spit upon.
But you must first factor out those vets who accidently spit upon themselves, for whatever reason.
May 23rd, 2009 at 7:08 pmI’m not a veteran or the daughter of one. However, this morning on HBO I watched “SECTION 60: ARLINGTON NATIONAL CEMETERY” which showed the graves, families and back stories of many of those who died because Bush and Cheney wanted to make more money than they would ever need by invading Iraq.
And Proud, since you won’t go fcuk yourself as Wayne suggested we’ll just wait until all the bad karma due you bites you on the a$$. It’s already coming after your heroes, why do you think they’re all on television whining like a bunch of babies. You’re next.
May 23rd, 2009 at 7:09 pmdbadass Says:
There tends to many vets and friends of vets here. I realize it is unfortunate and I apologize for asking and understanding if you wish not to share but have any of you ever witnessed a spit event?
I never have, but I was a Cold War vet.
May 23rd, 2009 at 7:09 pmObviously your sitting on it and the poost has caused brain damage. The Fence that is, moron.
May 23rd, 2009 at 7:12 pmWhy is it we must choose one side or another? What ever happened to developing ones own mind, drawing informed conclusions and becoming ones own man or woman? Have we all been so brainwashed into believing we must choose a side, a version or a party? Are we not individuals capable of standing up on our own strength with out having to be led around or herded about like sheep? I see where in our history many mistakes have been made, many have sinned against God and our lands, Hate the sin Not the sinner, crimes and sins are judged and punishments delved, albiet not by US! If we actually understood what humanity was and the gift of life we get to ever so shortly experience, this world would unify, each area bringing/offering its natural resources to share in exchange for resources of others… UNIFY… Dont Hate…
May 23rd, 2009 at 7:13 pmI am glad for that Wayne and thank you for what you do and have done to make a difference in and out of the service.
May 23rd, 2009 at 7:13 pmBesides, Viet Nam soldiers revolted. Funny how there is still so little talk about mutiny when the subject of the Viet Nam war comes up.
May 23rd, 2009 at 7:14 pmDon’t forget to factor out those vets who are accidently spit upon in casual conversation.
Uncle Manny’s badly fitting dentures aren’t valid.
May 23rd, 2009 at 7:15 pmDick Cheney, defending Imprisonment without Warrant and “Harsh Interrogation Methods of Detainees” at “Guantanamo “Gitmo” Prison, May 21, 2009
-
Rudolf Hoess, Commandant of Auschwitz
May 23rd, 2009 at 7:16 pmDefending Imprisonment without Warrant and Harsh Treatment of “Internees” at Auschwitz Birkenau, Nuremberg, April 15, 1946
i’ve only heard fright-wing rumors, dbadass…
that guy who lost his fence is wound pretty tight…
he’ll figure it out… maybe…
sounds like someone who heard those rumors too… and believed them…
May 23rd, 2009 at 7:16 pmand allowed them to shape an attitude…
dbadass, My apologies to you, I am son and brother of veterins and for a moment I thought you where being disrespectful.. I am sorry I was wrong my friend… James
May 23rd, 2009 at 7:18 pmOnTheFence Says:
What ever happened to developing ones own mind, drawing informed conclusions and becoming ones own man or woman?
Hate the sin Not the sinner, crimes and sins are judged and punishments delved, albiet not by US!
A Pushmepullyou troll?
Someone get a camera!
May 23rd, 2009 at 7:18 pmlink
Rumsfeld’s “stream-lined” military, is, I think an attempt to forever avoid the problems of drafting soldiers.
May 23rd, 2009 at 7:18 pmKaty, have you seen my fence? You are too funny! :)
May 23rd, 2009 at 7:20 pmBARFY Back off turd…!
May 23rd, 2009 at 7:21 pmjames our old friend?
May 23rd, 2009 at 7:25 pmWheresTheFence Says:
BARFY Back off turd…!
Or what, silly twit?
May 23rd, 2009 at 7:26 pmdbadass, My apologies to you, I am son and brother of veterins and for a moment I thought you where being disrespectful.. I am sorry I was wrong my friend… James Why is it we must choose one side or another? What ever happened to developing ones own mind, drawing informed conclusions and becoming ones own man or woman? Have we all been so brainwashed into believing we must choose a side, a version or a party? Are we not individuals capable of standing up on our own strength with out having to be led around or herded about like sheep? I see where in our history many mistakes have been made, many have sinned against God and our lands, Hate the sin Not the sinner, crimes and sins are judged and punishments delved, albiet not by US! If we actually understood what humanity was and the gift of life we get to ever so shortly experience, this world would unify, each area bringing/offering its natural resources to share in exchange for resources of others… UNIFY… Dont Hate…
May 23rd, 2009 at 7:27 pmNot a problem…
May 23rd, 2009 at 7:28 pmKaty, old friend? sorry I probably am not who you are thinking of… although way back in school, um eighteen years ago I knew a Katy, is that you?
May 23rd, 2009 at 7:29 pmKarl Rove’s “legacy?” = getting a dullard elected President. Twice.
May 23rd, 2009 at 7:36 pmDick Cheney’s “legacy?” = TORTURE.
Have you guys heard the latest? The RNC released an ad featuring Nancy Pelosi and Pussy Galore. Classy, huh?
May 23rd, 2009 at 7:39 pm. . . and the GOP tent gets a little smaller.
May 23rd, 2009 at 7:41 pmNot only is this man a bald-headed liar — he’s a PUDGY, bald-headed liar.
May 23rd, 2009 at 7:43 pm*
Thanks, dbadass. It was an honor and a privilege to serve.
May 23rd, 2009 at 7:44 pmP.D.
May 23rd, 2009 at 7:44 pmThey just continue to demonstrate how classless and low they are.
A simple request for primary documentation of the suggestion that vets are regularly spit upon by private citizens. It is very similar to the time I asked people who had actually witnessed a flag burning to share their experience.
I’ve never been spat on fortunetly. I did get out before Iraq really got underway due to nerve damage and back injury. I still have many friends who serve but I can’t think of any instances of disrespect like that.
May 23rd, 2009 at 7:44 pmI just saw a graph somewhere showing the decline of repugs around the nation, INCLUDING IN THE SOUTH.
May 23rd, 2009 at 7:46 pmThey are still ahead of Dems in the south, but the trend is headed downward – in the rest of the nation, the dems are ahead.
It’s not that dems are so perfect, but by comparison, there is no comparison.
Hermann Goering On Holding Internees Without Warrant or Writ
War Crimes Trials at Nuremberg, 1936
-
-
Karl Rove on Holding Detainees Without Warrant or Writ
May 23rd, 2009 at 7:48 pmFox News, (Hannity and Colmes),July 2008
Marie@161, What choice do people have? The mostly religious folks stuck by the Repugs for religious reasons. And what happened? NOTHING. The Republicans promised to overturn Roe v. Wade. They promised these religious folk everything they wanted to get their votes. I think finally they have seen the light. And don’t forget the young evangelicals. Their big thing is poverty and global warming. Things their elders don’t give a sh*t about.
May 23rd, 2009 at 7:52 pmkdgamergirl
May 23rd, 2009 at 7:54 pmI thank and honor you
oops, i just remembered a chore and thought to reply first…
nope, not the same james, as i should’ve known…
and, i could be katy’s mom, fence…
btw, watch who you’re calling out when you enter a new town, man…
.
GOP Rep. rips ‘reprehensible’ video
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0509/22894.html
ONE of ‘em gets it… for how long?
May 23rd, 2009 at 7:55 pmkaty@165, Where is the rest of outrage from the Repugs? Oh, I forgot. When a memeber of the Repug Party insults a woman it’s no big deal. Just ask Kay Hutchinson. One of Rick Perry’s aides kind of referred to her as a whorehouse or something.
May 23rd, 2009 at 8:01 pmwinddance
I understand your postion but I think anyone telling us to go spit on soldiers on memorial day deserves nothing better.
May 23rd, 2009 at 8:05 pmProud Says:
May 23rd, 2009 at 2:31 pm
Proud Moron, you don’t have the ability to make me angry. What you inspire is DISGUST, not anger.
I am the daughter, sister, granddaughter, and great-granddaughter of veterans — people who actually fought for your freedom and mine — and I’m tired of people like you pissing on their efforts.
So, piss off.
May 23rd, 2009 at 8:06 pmWheresTheFence Says:
Dbadass point MORON is that it is an urban legend the rightwing uses as a cudgel though there is scant evidence of lefties doing this at ALL much less being any sort of widespread phenomena. Are we going to have to take you by the hand and walk you through each and every point that any reasonably bright six year old would understand?
May 23rd, 2009 at 8:08 pmTrittydi Says:
Not only is this man a bald-headed liar — he’s a PUDGY, bald-headed liar. __________________
Though accurate, your description of KKKarl is still incomplete…
He’s a pudgy, ODDLY SEXLESS, bald-headed liar… dang, why does that cover SOOOOOOOO many of the GOOPers?
May 23rd, 2009 at 8:11 pmWheresTheFence Says:
Why is it we must choose one side or another? What ever happened to developing ones own mind, drawing informed conclusions and becoming ones own man or woman? Have we all been so brainwashed into believing we must choose a side, a version or a party
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Speak for yourself. Perhaps YOU are brainwashed I have been thinking for myself since I was a kid. I DECIDED to choose a side. For me you NEVER take the side of the powerful against the weak. I DECIDED that. It wasnt something I was TOLD to believe. Your projection is precious. Who says we arent thinking for ourseleves and WHO told you to believe THAT?
May 23rd, 2009 at 8:12 pmEugeneDebs, I completly understand dbadass’ point, I at first took his question out of context(misunderstood) what he was getting at, I am not a moron, intelligent actually. As a decendent of a long family history of war verterans and son of and brother to war veterans I was being overly proud and protective of their efforts that helped give us sniveling spoiled brats of today our freedom. If you will notive I openly apologized to him. We have crossed that fence and moved on my friend.
May 23rd, 2009 at 8:19 pmEugeneDebs, it looks as if you have me in your sights! I was raised to be an idividual, to stand up proudly for what I believe in and to always be my own man. No one has told me I had to think one way or another, many have tried… I keep an open mind and ear to hear differing opinions, arguments, “sides of the story” then do I draw on my own beliefs to make an informed conclusion and if I happen to favor one over the other so be it, if I do not believe in any of it then I stand alone, tall and proud.
May 23rd, 2009 at 8:26 pmIn the hard-a*SS working class neighborhood I grew up in, in Texas, I remember the jingo-ism and support for the Viet Nam war stopping dead in its tracks when the story of Mai Lai came out. I remember it very well—seeing all the adults around me being consumed with shame was intense. The war was suddenly not heroic at all, and people genuinely feared that their husbands, or relatives who were serving might be involved in such things.
I guess the term “collateral damage” has done its work. We accept atrocity. It’s taken a lot of media tricks to make our nation this ignoble.
May 23rd, 2009 at 8:29 pmBy the way, the above date for the Nuremberg trial of Goering is and obvious typo and should read “1946″, not 1936. The original quote was made in 1936 and then quoted by the prosecution, 1946 when trying Goering for War Crimes and Crimes against Humanity.
I’m sure most people knew that but just in case.
May 23rd, 2009 at 8:32 pmWheresTheFence:
Your cliches are wearing thin.
You seem to repeat the same trite, simple-minded nonsense time-and-again, like a fifteen year-old.
Oh, and I found the fence: look in the mirror, it’s right on your face.
May 23rd, 2009 at 8:36 pmWhy isn’t this criminal behind bars yet???
May 23rd, 2009 at 8:38 pmSo, I guess Rove is saying it wouldn’t be a mess if Obama would just leave them all there for the rest of their natural lives. Two things wrong with that picture. 1) it is immoral and reprehensible and 2) it is extremely costly.
May 23rd, 2009 at 8:39 pmThe trite my friend is your words, your pathetic hate ideology is very apparent, thats sad, very sad my point is once again proven in another fine upstanding human being, your family must be very proud of you…
May 23rd, 2009 at 8:42 pmFor your first post yes. I see you appologized and would not have posted as I did had I seen that first as to your second. Why did you come in here and try to lecture us on having an open mind? What reason did you have to think we NEEDED such a lesson? Did you think we needed you to be our teacher or guru? Perhaps making assumptions about what we think or do isnt a good way to avoid insulting us.
May 23rd, 2009 at 8:44 pmRove, Bush, Cheney, Rice are all guilty as hell in this sharade at “Gitmo”, it was plain and simple left for the next president Obama to clean up, I agree Rove tends to be saying if you just would have left it alone it would not be a problem. I commend Obama for taking an early stand against these atrocities and actually fulfilling his word to put an end to the torture and close the facility… DNFP.. I am a simple minded person! Simple, Proud and I sleep very well everynight…
May 23rd, 2009 at 8:49 pmDick Cheney
February 4th, 2009
-
-
Heinrich Himmler
May 23rd, 2009 at 8:53 pmAddress to the Einsatztruppen SS
It just seems to me that a lot of effort is wasted debating over and adding fuel to the obvious. All our government is corrupt to some extent, Bushes reign will go down in history in my view equally as disaterous and pointless as Hitlers disalusioned reign. Obama is a hope we can all have for now, and I believe he will make some change for us, but to what extent and content is still not clear. If there is any hope for our country and Government Obama will be the seed of good change. For all us sheeple of the united states, it has taken generations to get us where we are as followers of Government leaders and what they tell us is what we believe, it will take an equal time to change this… With that said I see coming here to express my opinion in this free speech forum is as usual falling on sheeples ears…
May 23rd, 2009 at 9:00 pmAmen WAYNEBRO… Post 182.
May 23rd, 2009 at 9:05 pmkdgamergirl
I thank and honor you
Thanks :)
May 23rd, 2009 at 9:09 pmWheresTheFence Says:
With that said I see coming here to express my opinion in this free speech forum is as usual falling on sheeples ears…
_________________
Gee… nothing like the one-size-fits-all put down of everyone here to endear you to the regulars… poor, poor you…
***sniff… ***
I feel for ya, Li’l Feller… no… really… I do.
May 23rd, 2009 at 9:22 pmHey Republic of Stupidity, was I speaking to you?
May 23rd, 2009 at 9:25 pmLate to the thread but, Karl Rove is just another gasbag republican that has nothing of substance to offer. If lying was a felony… oh wait. He’d get a free pass. Our government is out of control.
May 23rd, 2009 at 9:27 pmWheresTheFence Says:
Hey Republic of Stupidity, was I speaking to you?
____________
Seeing as I’m one of the regulars here, and you’re issuing broad, generic, stereotypical insults, I’d say so.
May 23rd, 2009 at 9:28 pmRegulars, this thread was just started this afternoon and this thread and SOME of the comments are all I am referring to.. and now you come in here chewing lead and spittin bullets. again my point about society today is proven, you all critisize Bush for puffing out his chest and stomping Iraq! look at us! ready to take on an argument, join in a fight or critisize without fact…. point and case… I too am guilty, not very different but I see it, I loath it and will Fight to change it…
May 23rd, 2009 at 9:33 pmWheresTheFence
I’ve read your posts and IMHO you are full of crap.
May 23rd, 2009 at 9:37 pmNice to meet you too psyco!
May 23rd, 2009 at 9:37 pmIMHO? doesent anyone speak in words anymore?
May 23rd, 2009 at 9:40 pmPS, Psyco, thanks for noticing…
May 23rd, 2009 at 9:41 pmWhat exactly is your point, Fence? Do you think we only oppose torture because of party affiliations?
May 23rd, 2009 at 9:44 pmWheresTheFence,
If you don’t mind me asking, what is your goal here?
May 23rd, 2009 at 9:44 pm“Why is it we must choose one side or another? What ever happened to developing ones own mind, drawing informed conclusions and becoming ones own man or woman? Have we all been so brainwashed into believing we must choose a side, a version or a party…”
Why do you assume that we are sheeple? This is a progressive blog, with clearly stated progressive goals, and we regulars have gathered here from all walks of life and all areas of the country because each of our lives have developed with progressive values. You make it seem as if choosing a side is automatically a bad thing. We believe that we have chosen the side of the Constitution and the rule of law that this nation was built on. Is it a bad thing that we have made such a choice, and are defending it?
May 23rd, 2009 at 9:55 pmWiley, No, I guess my point is we are limiting ourselves to parties, because it is all we are offered, our government says we must choose our next leader from these two or three “parties”… We are controlled like sheep, eat this or this, its “your Choice” yea right!.. Torture in any context is barbarik, i agree,if we had not gone to Iraq and stomped on hussains foot would we have created the “neccesity” to torture these people? should we not have have gone into Afganistan instead looking for Bin Laden? government and society is all corrupt and we just dont see it or choose not too.. It makes me sick what has happened to society-people in general today…
May 23rd, 2009 at 9:55 pmThanks for all you do for us since your time in the service too. We love you Wayne.
May 23rd, 2009 at 9:56 pmHey Zooey… :)
May 23rd, 2009 at 9:56 pmWheresTheFence, many if not most of us have been hanging around here for years. We don’t hold the same opinions on many things and we disagree amongst ourselves often. But you come in here like a bull in a china shop insulting us in mass and when we respond in kind you’re shocked. You’re the one nobody knows so when you go on the attack we assume the worst.
You suggest we should all just try and get along, live and let live. Once the perpetrators of these crimes are prosecuted, whatever the outcome, we can move on. But we will NOT move on until justice is served. This country is too important to us to allow criminals to destroy the noble reputation it’s earned by the bravery of so many soldiers that have fought for it. Any true American would not forgive the actions of the criminals because it’s easier. We will not forget.
May 23rd, 2009 at 10:00 pmJane, so if I do not choose a party, a leader, what then, what if I dont like, respect, believe any of our choices are going to benefit this country? this countrys people? I too believe in and have chosen the constitution but our government ever increasingly manipulates the constitution for their benefit…
May 23rd, 2009 at 10:02 pmAn awful lot of Independents are showing up lately. I can’t help but suspect that the answer to the Bush disappointment, for some people, is the declaration that all government officials are bad, which of course feeds nicely into the meme that the government should be shrunken to such a size that it could be drowned in the bathtub.
I believe that the federal government has a purpose to serve the greater good. Our system isn’t perfect, but it’s pretty dam*ed good. It could use some improvement.
I also believe that our Achilles’s heel is the MSM.
May 23rd, 2009 at 10:09 pmI beleive justice should be brought to them as well, they have wronged us, commited crimes, yes we must have law, but law that ALL must follow, Bush I believe should face war crime charges, the rest of his cohorts as well, where is the Justice? we today are just saying oh well yea he did a bad thing but thats government for you and nothing happens!!! it is our counrty slowly decaying, the beliefs this country was built on are one by one being stripped away, we will reach a point when all hell will break loose<– which we were very near because of Bush… we will be in world turmoil/war and we will NOT prevail… what then?
May 23rd, 2009 at 10:09 pmI am sorry, I did come in here like a Bull, insultive and argumentative, it was not my intentions. Please except my apology!?
May 23rd, 2009 at 10:12 pmYou want to point out to us where a regular progressive on this board has argued against prosecution? You just got here. Maybe you should review other posts on torture.
May 23rd, 2009 at 10:13 pmEErrr, turd it’s chimpy’s fault. First off chimpy lies, you lie, buckshot lies, your club lies and it would be one thing if President Obama had the benefit of the truth. You freakin fat closeted ahole.
May 23rd, 2009 at 10:18 pmYou suggest we should all just try and get along, live and let live. Once the perpetrators of these crimes are prosecuted, whatever the outcome, we can move on. But we will NOT move on until justice is served. This country is too important to us to allow criminals to destroy the noble reputation it’s earned by the bravery of so many soldiers that have fought for it. Any true American would not forgive the actions of the criminals because it’s easier. We will not forget.Doodlebug, no that is not what am saying, I agree we must prosecute, but in actuallaity who are the criminals here? yes terrorist no question, i do question our leaders at that time though….
May 23rd, 2009 at 10:18 pmthe teabaggers are begging for a commission. Get it to them Mr. Holder.
Congress get a going and prove the repugs have been right for the last eight yrs.
May 23rd, 2009 at 10:20 pmJane E. Schneider Says:
Jane, once again, well said!
May 23rd, 2009 at 10:20 pmFor some reason so many seem to have forgotten the actual charges levied against the leaders of Germany at the Nuremberg Trials in 1945 and 46. It wasn’t for the slaughter of 6 million Jews that Hoess, Frank, Ribbentrop, Rosenberg, Keitel, Kaltenbrunner, Jodl, Bormann, Frick and Goering (who committed suicide prior to being hung) to the gallows for a short drop and a sudden stop.
The crime they swung for was “Launching Aggressive War” and war Crimes, (shooting, torture and abuse of prisoners including partisan resistance fighters). The genocide of the Jews merely solidified the case against them. They were already condemned on the principle of “waging Aggressive War”, which is the very definition of the war in Iraq.
The problem with our country today is a lack of education on recent history. WWII was required study when I was in school in the 1960’s, but today that is not the case. And it shows in how so many of the youth follow corrupt and wicked leaders like Dick Cheney, and his henchmen, like Karl Rove. Because they simply don’t get it. WWII means nothing to these kids. To them it’s something that happened long ago, and plays no role in today’s world, especially with wicked men like Cheney telling them so. Cheney’s attorney, Addington called the Geneva Conventions “quaint”, something that would have gotten him hurt had he said it to a WWII vet at or around WWII.
Cheney and Rove use the same arguments that Goering, Goebells, Hoess and others made at their trials at Nuremberg to excuse their crimes and escape the gallows. And the reason so many people do not see that is because they simply don’t know anything about those trials, or what happened before WWII, during and after.
Sadly, the people who really need to read the quotes I post will likely never see them. When you can cheer on a Press Secretary who doesn’t even know what the Cuban Missile Crisis was, then you clearly do not value history, nor the lessons we must learn from it.
May 23rd, 2009 at 10:21 pmWith all due respect, this is bullshit.
Government says nothing about political parties. Our political system leads inexorably to a dualism, usually composed of coalitions of various levels of comfort with each other, mainly because any third party movement inevitably wounds the side from which it splits.
This is the result of political self-preservation, not some arbitrary government edict. It’s the natural end point of of non-parliamentary version of a representative republic. To blame it on “the government” smacks of libertarian conspiracy theory.
May 23rd, 2009 at 10:23 pmwiley Says:
——————————————————————————–
You want to point out to us where a regular progressive on this board has argued against prosecution? You just got here. Maybe you should review other posts on torture.
I have not claimed nor implied anyone here has argued against prosecution… With all due respect, maybe you should read what has been said here from lets say post # 1…
May 23rd, 2009 at 10:23 pmExcellent point, wiley.
Funny how Republicans constantly preach that government can’t solve problems, and then when they get into office, they do their best to prove it true.
May 23rd, 2009 at 10:24 pmWheresTheFence Says:
Jane, so if I do not choose a party, a leader, what then, what if I dont like, respect, believe any of our choices are going to benefit this country? this countrys people? I too believe in and have chosen the constitution but our government ever increasingly manipulates the constitution for their benefit…
May 23rd, 2009 at 10:02 pm
Why are you asking me? What you do is your decision to make. I’d suggest that you let your Senators, your Congressperson and President Obama know how you feel on the issues. Or help campaign for someone that you do respect and believe in. It might do more good than whining about it. What have you been doing the past 8 years?
May 23rd, 2009 at 10:25 pmThanks, Mr. Evil. (blushing)
May 23rd, 2009 at 10:28 pmralph the wonder locust Says:
——————————————————————————–
WheresTheFence Says:
Wiley, No, I guess my point is we are limiting ourselves to parties, because it is all we are offered, our government says we must choose our next leader from these two or three “parties”…
With all due respect, this is bullshit.
Government says nothing about political parties. Our political system leads inexorably to a dualism, usually composed of coalitions of various levels of comfort with each other, mainly because any third party movement inevitably wounds the side from which it splits.
This is the result of political self-preservation, not some arbitrary government edict. It’s the natural end point of of non-parliamentary version of a representative republic. To blame it on “the government” smacks of libertarian conspiracy theory.
Wow, I am impressed, I respect this point of view and you have made a legitimate point, I am mistaken to say it is our government that is limiting our leadership and party choices, you are absolutly correct… It is our growing passiveness with corruption and greed that allows us to become so complacent and limiting and lowering our expectations for our country… With all due respect, just my thoughts…
May 23rd, 2009 at 10:30 pmI am glad to nod in agreement with this.
May 23rd, 2009 at 10:32 pmWheresTheFence Says:
Hey Zooey… :)
May 23rd, 2009 at 9:56 pm
An answer to my question would be welcome. Thanks.
May 23rd, 2009 at 10:34 pmKarl Rove reminds me of the scarecrow in the Wizard of Oz, pointing fingers everywhere but at himself. So much energy and anger wasted on arguing minutae and narcicism when the simple question begs: “What is the Republican’s solution?” Listen to the crickets chirp, because on this issue like all their others, there is none.
May 23rd, 2009 at 10:39 pmZooey, my goal or point is mute. I simply read the article, read a few posts and decided I would to become a part of this post on the subject. Now I have regretably veered from my initial intentions by attacking and insulting a few people here which I again apologize for! I have limited access to the internet presently but would enjoy becoming a civil ongoing person here… Thats about it Zooey. With all due respect.
May 23rd, 2009 at 10:44 pmJane, have you and Wayne been noticing that Jesse Ventura has been making the rounds recently? He seems to be the people’s anti-politician politician. Sort of like investigate anything and everyone and prosecute if necessary. The truth may hurt but, it is the truth. So far I’ve been disappointed with President Obama. We need to clean house. American politicians do not get a free pass just because they’re Americans. Democrat or Republican, I don’t care what their party affiliation is. If war crimes were committed, they need to be prosecuted.
May 23rd, 2009 at 10:46 pmAmerica is supposed to be the bright shining beacon of promise, hope and opportunity. Today, we’re as far from that as I am from all the beer stockpiled on Pluto. If we don’t set the standard then who will? America should never lower it’s standards for anything. Especially for contrived fear for the benefit of super-rich elites. The Iraq and Afghanistan wars are their American Idol and Dancing With The Stars.
WheresTheFence Says:
May 23rd, 2009 at 10:44 pm
What name have you used previously on TP?
May 23rd, 2009 at 10:51 pmMr. Evil Says:
America is supposed to be the bright shining beacon of promise, hope and opportunity. Today, we’re as far from that as I am from all the beer stockpiled on Pluto. If we don’t set the standard then who will? America should never lower it’s standards for anything. Especially for contrived fear for the benefit of super-rich elites.
I jump from my chair, raise my arms and give Mr.Evil a big hallahluya!!! Sir, I agree whole heartedly with your entire post here to Miss Jane… You sir are a brother as is ralph the wonder locust
May 23rd, 2009 at 10:52 pmgaaa… quit with the condescending crap…
and try adding some commas at least…
my first impression of fence, here, is that, like most righties, he’d be quite satisfied if everyone would just get along on HIS side of the fence…
…
zooey – for a bit there, when he said ‘hi’, i wondered if it wasn’t your old friend james, riser? was it? always getting banned… remember?
May 23rd, 2009 at 10:53 pmZooey,
What name have you used previously on TP?
None, this is my first time here. Just registered today…
May 23rd, 2009 at 10:54 pmDick Cheney
May 21, 2009
-
-
Hermann Goering
May 23rd, 2009 at 10:55 pmFrom His Cell In Nuremberg
Germany 1946
WheresTheFence Says:
Zooey, my goal or point is mute. …
i bet you meant to say ‘moot’… look it up…
May 23rd, 2009 at 10:56 pmKaty, I do not belive I attacked you today so I will ask you to keep your personal opinions about me to your self!
Thank you…
My Name is James but I am not :)
May 23rd, 2009 at 10:57 pmBut thanks for sharing sweety…
May 23rd, 2009 at 10:58 pmWouldn’t it be great if our leaders and their followers actually learned something about history before setting out to try and make it?
May 23rd, 2009 at 11:03 pmWAYNEBRO Says:
——————————————————————————–
“Critics of our policies are given to lecturing on the theme of being consistent with American values.
But no moral value held dear by the American people obliges public servants ever to sacrifice innocent lives to spare a captured terrorist from unpleasant things.
And when an entire population is targeted by a terror network, nothing is more consistent with American values than to stop them.”
Dick Cheney
May 21, 2009
-
HA this is a perfect example, point and case. How many people do you think actually bought that crap?
“What the devil do you mean morality? Word of honor? Sure you can talk about word of honor when you promise to deliver the goods in business.
But when it is the question of the interests of the nation? Phooey!
Then morality stops!”
Hermann Goering
From His Cell In Nuremberg
Germany 1946
Thank you Waynebro! anotha brotha!!!
May 23rd, 2009 at 11:05 pmcriticism and advice is not “attacking”, fence…
May 23rd, 2009 at 11:10 pmtoughen up and talk straight, or move on… simple.
Waynebro, It would be refreshing indeed, I will give Bush a kudos in becoming a ball carring man, remember his sniveling wet behind the ears face when 911 occured? God Bless those souls of that day. Did he not all of a sudden grow some nards and start a wild goose chase for Binladen? after that fruitless endeaver he manipulated heresay into fact to start an ass saving effort in Iraq..
May 23rd, 2009 at 11:12 pmWell, considering Dick Cheney’s recent rise in the polls (37 percent approval rating) I’d say millions. Tens of millions.
Clearly there’s an undereducated (or anti-education) population in this country that’s growing and becoming increasingly strong.
Just like the rise of the American Nazi movement post WWII, we’re seeing a resurgence of die hard loyalists who forsake the values and morals held by our fathers who fought and defeated Nazi Germany in WWII, and who instead embrace the doctrines of the Nazi’s, specifically, the “Nuremberg Defense”, i.e “In war we follow orders to protect the homeland”.
What this country needs now more than anything, is historians. We need about a million new “Doris Kearns Goodwins”. Historians who not only know history, but understand and can teach the lessons it teaches us.
I know it’s cliche, but the words of George Santayana apply now more than ever.
May 23rd, 2009 at 11:17 pm
WheresTheFence Says:
Hey Republic of Stupidity, was I speaking to you?
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Hey moron. Let me give YOU a lesson. This is a message board if you want a private conversation get a phone number so YES you were speaking to him and everyone else here. Try to keep up
May 23rd, 2009 at 11:18 pmkaty Says:
——————————————————————————–
criticism and advice is not “attacking”, fence…
toughen up and talk straight, or move on… simple.
Thanks for sharing but leave me out of your small world of drama, My advice to you is to move on to someone else that may be impressed by your snub nose ignorence..
May 23rd, 2009 at 11:20 pmJeez fence you are all over the place. Sniping snarling and insulting anyone near you one post them saying sorry the next. Get a grip, take a pill do something to figure out exactly what it is you want to say or talk about here. Spare us the condescending lessons though. Not that many people here are looking for a guru
May 23rd, 2009 at 11:25 pmThe Obama Administration shouldn’t even respond too any of Rove or Cheney’s treacherous,odium, EVIL comments.
May 23rd, 2009 at 11:25 pm“A conservative government is an organized hypocrisy. This remark made by Disraeli popped into my head when I read Rove’s “psychotic” gibberish which sums up the GOP.
WTF? Are you saying Iraq was the right place to fight?
May 23rd, 2009 at 11:28 pmIf you are on the level here, and it seems that you may be, I heartily welcome you to the community.
If your political bent is to the right, you will undergo some rough treatment here, some if not most of it undeserved, but I look forward to another honest voice in the mix, and one capable of keeping us on our toes with intelligence and respect.
Cheers.
May 23rd, 2009 at 11:29 pmYou bleeding heart A/H’s you will stick with this idiot and watch as America goes down. You do not care about our country just your over paid union wages. Keep voting for idiots and watch the rest of our jobs go oveseas. I bet you will be proud to be union then. You nuts are so brain washed
May 23rd, 2009 at 11:36 pmby your crooked union bosses you cannot see anything else.
I did not agree with Bush on many things but what do you want for the prisoners? Give them citizenship would be normal for you idiots.
This comment is awash in vague ambiguity, as are most of your comments. To what end, one can only assume.
So let me be clear.
The invasion and occupation of Iraq was no “ass saving effort”. It was illegal, aggressive war. The same type of war we, the United States and our allies, OUTLAWED at the trials in Nuremberg.
Whether President Obama has the courage or not to prosecute it remains to be seen, but a prosecutable offense it clearly was and is.
Anyone moderately acquainted with WWII and the subsequent prosecution of the German High Command knows this.
And for those of you who don’t, what better time to acquaint yourselves with the events of WWII than this Memorial day weekend.
May 23rd, 2009 at 11:38 pmWheresTheFence Says:
None, this is my first time here. Just registered today…
May 23rd, 2009 at 10:54 pm
So what was the point of your “Hey Zooey. :)” comment? Do you automatically condescend to everyone who has asked you a civil question?
May 23rd, 2009 at 11:42 pmWheresTheFence Says: #224
Thanx. I have my days.
We’re supposed to be the inventers and innovators. The day we went from industrial capitalism to financial capitalism was the beginning of the end. Our politicians these days, D and R, do nothing but protect the money. It’s status quo above all!
Obama doesn’t want to upset the elites. But, can you blame him? Even if he really wants to do the right thing, he can’t. He knows they’ll eviscerate him politically. We need someone who’s not afraid of that or them. If I’m still alive in 2012, I’m voting for Jesse Ventura for president. Nobody owns me and so far as I can tell nobody owns him. He’s earned my respect and my vote. No more fear!
May 23rd, 2009 at 11:43 pmtqbulldog Says:
…what do you want for the prisoners? Give them citizenship would be normal for you idiots.
May 23rd, 2009 at 11:36 pm
I can’t speak for the other idiots, but my preference would be to stick to the rule of law and the guidance of the Constitution. The prisoners should be treated as any prisoner is treated in this country — as would you, if you were a prisoner. I’m guessing you would expect to be treated within the law, although I could be wrong.
We don’t adhere to our Constitutional rights and freedoms only when it is easy. We must also do so when it is right.
May 23rd, 2009 at 11:46 pmtqbulldog, STFU you worthless piece of crap. This is AMERICA. We don’t torture because people like you are a bunch of loser cowardly pansies. If you’re unhappy feel free to leave. You fascists contribute nothing worthwhile to this country only hatred and stupidity. The sooner you leave the better this country will be.
May 23rd, 2009 at 11:47 pmRobert H. Jackson
May 23rd, 2009 at 11:48 pmChief Prosecutor for the United States
Nuremberg War Crimes Trials
Zooey Says:
We don’t adhere to our Constitutional rights and freedoms only when it is easy. We must also do so when it is right.
May 23rd, 2009 at 11:46 pm
OOPS! I should have added “obligations” to the first sentence.
May 23rd, 2009 at 11:51 pmThe “bleeding heart” is you. You and those bleeding heart cowards like you who haven’t the courage to live by the principles our fathers and their fathers lived by, and fought and died for.
It takes courage to live in a free and honorable republic.
It takes only cowardice to “do whatever is necessary to keep safe”.
You bleeding hearts so afraid of the principles of our country should find a place where you “feel safe”.
May 24th, 2009 at 12:01 amtqbulldog Says:
Pick a subject you ignorant piece of garbage. You are NOT James Joyce. Your abject stupidity is hard enough to digest without my braincells screaming for the sweet release of a coma when posted semi coherntly this stream of conciousness stupidity is just not worth the waste of life it takes to read. Look you are stupid. Take that into consideration then try to marshall your thoughts and aim for coherence before parading your stupid for all of us to laugh at
May 24th, 2009 at 12:04 amI”m sure those prisoners who were not guilty in the first place have now become hardened criminals–after being tortured and jailed for years, they’re itching to vindicate themselves. The first head they should hunt should be Karl Rove’s !!
May 24th, 2009 at 12:06 amMr. Evil @ May 23rd, 2009 at 10:46 pm ,
I agree completely. Jane and I are Unaffiliated Registered Voters. We prefer that term to “Independent”, especially since so many political parties use that term in their names. While we are more likely to vote for a Democrat over a Republican by virtue of the fact that the Democrat is more likely to believe the same things as us and the Republican wouldn’t, it doesn’t mean we want to see them in control. In the last two elections, I voted on as many alternative party lines as I could. In most cases, the candidate was the same as the Democratic one, but I wanted to send a message to the Democrats – don’t count on my support all the time.
May 24th, 2009 at 12:33 amY’know… I find tqbulldog’s rant to be utterly lacking in reason, logical foundation or common sense, but since he typed it all in bold, that makes up for all the other flaws, and I agree completely.
May 24th, 2009 at 12:44 amMr. Evil, I do like seeing Jesse Ventura speaking up lately, but I’m not really up on all of his positions. Otherwise, I totally agree with you.
May 24th, 2009 at 1:00 amJesse Ventura
May 24th, 2009 at 1:18 amMay 11, 2009
Jesse Ventura
May 24th, 2009 at 1:25 amMay 11, 2009
“Larry King Live”
tqbulldog Says-
I know this troll is probably gone and the thread dead but…
FU and your union bashing pal. As a union steamfitter, I just got done with a long hard emergency shut down on a powerhouse turbine. The team I headed up installed a valve costing over 1 mil. It involved serious skills and craftsmanship you have probably never witnessed. I.e. 100% x-rayed hot welding, heavy rigging, precision grinding, and my specialty, instrumentation. It was also more than just a little dangerous. The skills to do this without getting killed in the process were learned during a 5-year union apprenticeship and many years of safety training on union jobs.
I’m in no mood for arguing unionism with fools like you. Too tired and beat up. If we were face-to-face right now and you called me overpaid and ripped my union affiliation? I’d probably hand you your lungs.
May 24th, 2009 at 1:48 amJesse Ventura
May 24th, 2009 at 1:48 amMay 18th, 2009
Rebuttal to Elizabeth Hasslebeck on “The View”
Mycelium – that moron is too stupid to realize that UNIONS got him his 5 day workweek, his health benefits, his paid sick days and his paid vacation time — all things that idiot surely takes for granted.
May 24th, 2009 at 2:40 amAwww, come on Annie! That bulldog is a self-made man!
May 24th, 2009 at 2:48 am/snark
While I consider myself an independent (democrat prior to the hiring of a man that wasn’t qualified to be my paper boy) I have to laugh at both sides now. On this issue, Rove nd Cheney both have the right to say what they have been saying. YoMaMa has done nothing but run them down in the liberal biased media and threaten to do everything he can to put them in jail! What a precedent! Does he not think that his OWN administration will be reviewed in the same way by the next government (coming sooner than you think) Yet, he cries like a little baby when anyone points out what a shitty job he’s doing. If you feel safer with Obama in office you’d better keep a few republican friends around to protect you. He’s done everything but punch in the launch codes. Take him off the pedestal…open your eyes and see his policies for what they are…a shift to COMMUNISM. This should not be a Democrat or Republican issue…it should be an American issue.
May 24th, 2009 at 8:50 amNobody here is buying that you were ever a democrat, skeezie. Though, I think the username you picked for yourself is fitting.
May 24th, 2009 at 8:59 amSkeezix633:
You talk silly. Silly talk makes me giggle. Please post more…
Oh and why do I need republicans to defend me? What can they do that I can’t? Shift to communism? How so?
It is a slow morning. I hope you are competent to handle the responsiblities of kook in residence until the others awake…
May 24th, 2009 at 9:06 amHe believes the crap that comes out of his oral sphincter.
That that must represent some sort of derangement syndrome!
May 24th, 2009 at 9:45 amcan we stop all the self-righteous condemnation of bush. read between the lines people! obama has no idea what to do with them either. this is a completely new situation and all you monday morning quarterback look stupid, like fat wanna be jocks who havent played a sport in their life
May 24th, 2009 at 9:54 amSkeezix,you’re another worthless piece of crap that would do this country a favor if you moved anywhere else. Get the hell out scumbag.
May 24th, 2009 at 11:25 amThis is like saying that the guy who has no idea how to clean the sewage and bubble gum out of his neighbor’s dog’s coat is no better than the idiot neighbor who let his dog run around in the bubblegum factory’s cesspool in the first place.
May 24th, 2009 at 11:41 amWheresTheFence Says:
Zooey, my goal or point is mute.
If only……….
May 24th, 2009 at 11:42 amSkeezix633 Says:
May 24th, 2009 at 8:50 am
Only a racist imbecile like you would think we’d believe you were ever a Democrat — or a responsible human being.
May 24th, 2009 at 12:09 pmFirst of all, before I anger you. Let me say this. The problem with the liberal media, is not that it is liberal. It is that you -the ppl-never hear any other side of the story. Before you judge your so called enemies (conservatives) you need to listen to your AM dials on the radio for a week or two so you can hear what YOURE not being allowed to hear by the liberal media. You are the same group who cried oh protect me when 9-11 happened, Bush kept you safe for years and you complain about his methods now? While we conservatvies grab our guns and protect our loved ones, you will be the first crybabies when they are released and begin retaliaions. Everyone of these people -many of whom at the very least congregated with conspirators against the US-they certainly have an axe to grind now. They want you dead, they dont care how nice and politically correct you are and they never have. Why dont you read Obamas (joke) memoirs -how they talk about how much he admires Chavez and Castro’s governing methods-you seen him shake their hands. Wake up and smell the coffee you pathetic weaklings. Obamination is taking this country DOWN. He is doing everything he can to dismantle our country, including distroying our economy -(I guess when he said he promised he would cut the deficiet in half, he meant by first increasing it threefold-wow thanks) and by the way every other country relies on our economy regardless of their economic policies) and weakening military strength and we will be vulnerable. Couple with that the fact that Obamination is making ammunition expensive so ppl cant afford to protect themselves WHEN crap goes down. Dont believe your neighbor the conservative-call us your enemy. But at least do yourself a favor and listen to your AM stations for a week or two so you can make an INFORMED opinion and not just what the TV & FM wants you to think.
May 24th, 2009 at 1:59 pmNOT MY PRESIDENT! IMPEACH OBAMA!
Is the moon full or something?
May 24th, 2009 at 2:06 pmxenawp Says a whole bunch stupid racist shit:
What’s it like living in your tiny world? You sure do a lot of ASSUMING, freak.
Whittling away at our Constitutional freedoms is what makes us vulnerable, and you show yourself as uneducated when you claim anything different.
Dismissed.
May 24th, 2009 at 2:07 pmIt is that you -the ppl-never hear any other side of the story. Before you judge your so called enemies (conservatives) you need to listen to your AM dials on the radio for a week or two so you can hear what YOURE not being allowed to hear by the liberal media.
What liberal media? Corporations own the media, and only allow gop-friendly news, or news they can spin to promote the conservative viewpoint (especially am talk radio). Anyone who still believes in the liberal media, after their highly-uncritical Bush Years performance, is so hyper-partisan it’s a wonder he can even drive, since he refuses to make ANY left-hand turns.
May 24th, 2009 at 2:46 pmxenawp Says:
Comedy like this needs encouragement.
Don’t stop! Tell us how you REALLY feel!
May 24th, 2009 at 4:39 pmto the barfly
re: “please list these articles~hyperbole is cheap”
in light of the fact that your greatest forte in this thread is “impudence”, i hardly feel compelled to spend time listing articles on the subject.
May 24th, 2009 at 5:02 pmmaybe you like to pretend otherwise, but once obama took office and became privy to the “complete” picture, things weren’t as cut-and-dried as he anticipated.
and suffice to say that if you follow the news to any degree, president obama has stepped back and redefined his campaign promise on several occasions, and is quite likely to do so again.
and finally, i don’t really give a rat’s ass what YOU think of my post; and i’ll tell you why:
in my opinion, ANY extremist view, whether it’s right, left, religious, ethnic, or political, is indicative of closeminded ignorance; and those who maintain and profess these views rely on stereotyping, racism, bigotry, and fascism to propagate their extremism among others by appealing to their primal instincts and basic emotions.
you’re NO better than those you castigate, barfly; you just sit at the opposite extreme.
Sorry, Archeric – there’s NOTHING at all extreme in calling for the rule of law. There’s nothing at all extrme in calling for diplomacy before bombs. There’s nothing at all extreme in calling for decent healthcare for all Americans, or for justice for all.
If you find that extreme – you don’t belong on this site — or America.
May 24th, 2009 at 5:44 pmIn response: I actually have been a democrat my entire life though I’ve never been one to vote on party lines which I consider to be one of the dumbest things about free elections. The best man for the job should get the job…I don’t see that as racist. Obama had ZERO experience in anything but causing problems in Chicago and almost no time in politics at all. Hillary would have been a better choice…McCain…a dust mop even!!! How is it a shift to communism? He’s taken over the banks…the car companies…both of which are the two biggest money industries in America. You can love him or hate him but to disagree that he is heading us to socialism is moronic. The fact that you can’t be honest about it shows the level of brain washing.(O-Ba-Ma O-ba-ma…come on…chant it with me!) Finally…I don’t consider myself a racist but I am willing to learn! When George was president everyone in the world took a shot at him (and rightfully so) but now that Obama is king, every time anyone makes ANY remark about his policies or complains about the 4 trillion dollar hole he’s digging in America….they are labeled racist. Freedom of speech disappeared when he was hired and that’s bad for all American’s. (Even the diaper boy that called me names…sniff sniff)
May 24th, 2009 at 9:15 pmTwo last comments…I think Bush did a HORRIBLE job but I felt safe that 9/11 wouldn’t happen again. If you think we are as safe with the policies of the current administration then welcome to fantasy island. I also love the fact that everything including the debt Obama is heading us into gets blamed on Bush. The difference between the Bush debt and Obama’s? Take a shovel go outside and dig out a scoop of earth. Look down into the hole…this is the debt George left us. Now go the Grand Canyon and look into that hole…scary isn’t it?
May 24th, 2009 at 9:19 pmIsn’t Obama deciding to defy the Constitution the same as Bush?
I must be dreaming!! Rachel Maddow is a no good Right-Winger…..Is that correct?…..Is that Correct???
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uuWVHT1WUY&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwhatreallyhappened.com%2F&feature=player_embedded
May 24th, 2009 at 9:20 pmI don’t buy it and it seems most others don’t either as the president enjoys majority support atleast as evidenced by the polling data. Socialism isn’t moronic not that I think the crap about the administration being some sort of socialists. I am glad to see my investments consistently rebounding. Things seem to be moving along in a way which is okay with me so far…
May 24th, 2009 at 9:21 pmIf you think we are as safe with the policies of the current administration then welcome to fantasy island
May 24th, 2009 at 9:24 pm— Can you defend this opinion which you have elected to state as fact?
scary isn’t it?
May 24th, 2009 at 9:27 pm—-
No not really. Unfortunate but not scary. It was only a matter of time before the piper would require payment
dbadass Says:
I don’t buy it and it seems most others don’t either as the president enjoys majority support at least as evidenced by the polling data.
GW Bush was at 91% approval in 2001, and LBJ was at 55% approval in 1965, and plummeted between 16 and 25% in 1967. Many Democrats and Republicans…..crooks drinking from the same Zionist/Corporate/Military trough. When we hit hyperinflation peak/point of no return within two years, and are embroiled in two or more wars, then maybe the Ed Schultz whores and Zombies will wake up.
May 24th, 2009 at 9:45 pmIn defense….if you were in the woods with wolves closing in on you, would you want doggie biscuits or a gun? Obama’s choice of doggie biscuits is a joke and if you don’t see Iran and Korea as wolves then you aren’t watching the world with your eyes open. I’m not a violent person by any means and my father served in Korea and Vietnam…war should be a last resort but cuddling up to terrorists, letting them know that nothing will happen to them is not the answer. My wife and I have two dogs…she treats them only with kind words…I yell a little. She gets no respect where I get all the respect in the world. This is a simple version of what these leaders in other countries think…that being nice is being weak and it WILL lead to them confronting us…sad but undeniable.
May 24th, 2009 at 9:53 pmSince when do the actions of two dogs represent all the respect in the world? North Korea can’t do shit and the threat of Iran is grossly overstated by those who benefit from overstating it. Everything in life is not about confrontation… I’ll bet those dogs love your wife and tolerate you…
May 24th, 2009 at 9:59 pmIran is grossly over stated? What part of “we’re going to get nukes and blow Israel up” and “The holocaust never happened” sounds over stated? If Israel thinks Obama will back them, they need to think again and blow the crap out of Iran. And…my dogs said they love me….but I don’t give a crap as long as they respect me… it’s easy to love what you respect but not so easy to love something you don’t.
May 24th, 2009 at 10:04 pmObama on N. Korea….”You better Not shoot that missile…you BETTER not shoot that missile…you’d better not…oh what the heck at least I talked to you about it and it was pretty productive” No respect. Watch for them coming soon to a democracy near you!
May 24th, 2009 at 10:07 pm“we’re going to get nukes and blow Israel up”
—-
May 24th, 2009 at 10:08 pmShow us where they said this. Israel has nukes correct? Iran is not insane they know any nuclear attack on Israel assures their own destruction. You seem sort of like an authoritariam. I have no respect for authoritarians….
Watch for them coming soon to a democracy near you!
May 24th, 2009 at 10:11 pm—–
For what purpose?
Probably to vacation with Obama…and as far as respecting authoritarians…you’re a democrat so you can’t possibly respect YOURSELF…why would I expect you to respect me or 8 month old fetuses? Or a persons right to carry a gun…or the majorities right to vote down gay marriage? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
May 24th, 2009 at 10:17 pmAnd to all the other Democrats…it’s a JOKE people! How come it’s okay for Janane Garafolo to be a joke but not me? LMAO
So when you can’t respond thoughtfully this is the result? Actually I am registered as an independent which is sort of funny in light of the flood of right wingers to that persuasion.
I will admit though that folks that keyboard HAHA’s and any varients of LMAO sort of freak me out a but…
May 24th, 2009 at 10:20 pmDecisions based on 8 month fetuses are best left to medical experts and the mothers of those 8 month fetuses. I am neither but I trust the judgement of both…
May 24th, 2009 at 10:23 pmI’m probably going to be independent from now on myself. I actually have a number of things that I sit the fence on (like abortion…I believe it should be a woman’s right but I also think that it shouldn’t be birth control) and even though I’m registered democrat, I have always voted with my head. Obama won for two reasons. 1) The left media’s refusal to vet him properly and 2) Racism. How else can you explain 90 percent of the black vote for a man with NO experience. (Sorry about the Haha’s…didn’t mean to freak you out. Working twenty hours a day, 7 days a week to support the people that don’t want to work must have made me giddy!)
May 24th, 2009 at 10:27 pmI say leave it up to the fetus…if he or she can live through an abortion they deserve a chance…the mother shouldn’t be allowed to make the decision, nor should the medical experts
May 24th, 2009 at 10:30 pmDo you really work 20 hours a day 7 days a week? What is it that you do?
I work only two jobs and I was at one or the other or in transit to one or the other for 26 straight hours this weekend but that isn’t the norm.
BTW:
May 24th, 2009 at 10:34 pmI have never met the mythological creature who uses abortion as birth control. I have seen a few people make serious and difficult choices but decisions which needed to be made. I think it is disrectful to suggest anything other.
nor should the medical experts
May 24th, 2009 at 10:34 pm—
Than why have medical experts?
I have a state job nights 12-8 am and I own a restaurant that I’m at 8am until 9 pm. I do take 6 days a year off though so I can’t complain.
May 24th, 2009 at 10:36 pmI was talking to a co-worker that told me his girlfriends sister had had 5 abortions in 4 years that equals birth control. I agree that for most it is a heart wrenching decision.
You seem to be pushing this no experience thing. I vaguely remember something about the US Senate.
May 24th, 2009 at 10:36 pmHe spent how long in the senate? How much was spent running for president? How many times did he vote “present” because he didn’t want to be labeled one way or another? How many businesses did he run? A paper route?
Medical experts have no choice when Obama signs legislation saying the babies are an extension to their mothers who can decide if they live or die
May 24th, 2009 at 10:41 pmSo you sleep, eat, and do the laundry between 9 pm and 12am assuming zero transit time? Damn! How long have you been doing this? When do you register and inspect your vehicles? How about the PO? How do you handle all your postal needs?
May 24th, 2009 at 10:42 pmElected fall 2004…announced presidential bid in early 2006 and began running then. I guess 16 months of “present” makes him pretty experienced!
May 24th, 2009 at 10:44 pmI am pretty sure that for the most part this whole Obama abortion thing is sort of moot as last I checked abortion was already a legal medical procedure.
Besides, shouldn’t you be at work?
May 24th, 2009 at 10:44 pmI have an easy chair at the restaurant and my wife is there when I’m not. I run errands when needed. I have three daughters that all wanted educating and marrying so 2 jobs wasn’t an option. I’ve been doing this schedule for 8 years now.
May 24th, 2009 at 10:46 pmIf we listen to the Skeez, Barack Obama just beamed into Congress in 2004, having never done a single thing before then.
**eyes rolling**
May 24th, 2009 at 10:48 pmNope…closed the restaurant and actually have a pass night. Can’t sleep because I’m not used to it and I have to run down to Carolina next week so I can’t use my casino money!My daughters also work the restaurant when I need a break! Thank God for the few left with a work ethic!
May 24th, 2009 at 10:48 pmHe didn’t beam in…he won election because of a sex scandal…otherwise he’d still be peddling leftist pamphlets to poor people that don’t know any better
May 24th, 2009 at 10:49 pmI guess until his election he worked at the Taco Bell?
May 24th, 2009 at 10:51 pmSkeezix633
May 24th, 2009 at 10:52 pmYou wouldn’t by any chance be that dude from that movie History of Violence now would you?
What sort of cuisine do you serve? If I were to eat there what would you recommend?
Thanks and best wishes. Food service is a tough gig.
May 24th, 2009 at 10:54 pmNever saw it…was it good?
May 24th, 2009 at 10:55 pmI have a pizza/sub place and make weird specialty pies…I would suggest our zesty chicken bacon ranch or our cream cheese with ham and bacon. Our turkey sub made with real chunks of turkey is a big seller too. You’re right, it is tough and not a route I would take again
May 24th, 2009 at 10:57 pmHow about some sort of “Italian”? I don’t really dig turkey subs.
May 24th, 2009 at 11:09 pmGreat Italians….provolone, genoa, peppy and capocola ham. We had 6 or 7 quizno’s set up in the area nad they all went under…too many good sub shops around here
May 24th, 2009 at 11:12 pmActually…the first time I had a problem with Obama was his “redistribution of wealth” thinking. I pay my wife approximately 4 bucks an hour and myself nest to nothing despite the restaurant grossing a quarter mil. If he adds 10 percent tax I would close my doors. My wife and I give to dozens of charities and organizations that would be hurt in addition to a number of people being put on unemployment. In another year or two we will actually start to make a little money but after 7 years of killing ourselves…we deserve it. Redistribution just promotes laziness
May 24th, 2009 at 11:17 pmHey Zooey. Have you had dinner yet?
May 24th, 2009 at 11:18 pmThere is this place I wanna try….
Is this site always this chatty? I love a good debate and it’s hard to find one. Our family either thinks Obama is God or that he is Hitler Junior. It’s a subject that isn’t brought up any more. I’ve never been here before but may stop back
May 24th, 2009 at 11:23 pmto leftside annie
re: if you find that extreme – you don’t belong on this site — or america”
“any extreme annie”
May 25th, 2009 at 12:51 amThe Bybee memo of 2002 defines the reason for the “creation” of GTMO: Individuals who are detained within the US, may be subject to a more complicated set of rules established by both treaty and statute.
In other words, all the SERE reverse enginered techniques could not be used if these individuals wwere held in the US.
The 11-20-08 Inquiry into the Treatment of Detainees in US Custody report reveals the mentality of the White House after 9/11. The 11-15-2001 memo from John Yoo indicates that the GWB led administration was thinking very early on about how to get around the laws of this country and Geneva Conventions.
Rove somehow thinks that President Obama is responsible for GWB and his entire administration…sounds like a bait and switch rhetorical argument, which is meant to divert the conversation away from the “facts”.
As President Obama has stated, Americans have a hunger for explanations and complexity and a willingness to acknowledge hard problems.
The DC idea that you “dumb down” explanations is why the war in Iraq occurred and the public has rejected the administration and all of its BS, something Rove refuses to acknowledge.
May 25th, 2009 at 8:17 amSkeezix633 Says:
Is this site always this chatty? I love a good debate and it’s hard to find one. Our family either thinks Obama is God or that he is Hitler Junior. It’s a subject that isn’t brought up any more. I’ve never been here before but may stop back
And we’d love to see you come back. After you’ve learned a few facts that you didn’t get from the right-wing media. They tell you lies all the time, you know.
May 25th, 2009 at 10:28 amAfter you’ve learned a few facts that you didn’t get from the right-wing media. They tell you lies all the time, you know.
But he is very effective at parroting GOP talking points; a little too effective to be considered an independent.
And I seriously doubt that he’s working 20 hours a day. It’s another fake business owner, crying about welfare recipients and taxes. We get… what, about five of those a week posting here?
May 25th, 2009 at 11:44 amI wonder how the steak bomb is?
May 25th, 2009 at 3:21 pmThanks for the invite back! I have definitely picked up a few talking points along the way however, I don’t solely watch Fox news but a number of other left channels. As I said, I like to make up my own mind. My original look at Obama was in trying to like him as I’m from NY but hate Hillary (Loved Bill though). I found that with Fox they usually show both sides of an issue while leaning one way where CNN was just complete propaganda…100 percent. Much of my info I found on line as I always look into issues. While I hated Obama’s call to take from the rich and give to the poor I decided it might be okay if he practiced what he preached but it’s a matter of public record that the man never gave anything to any body. (Google “The Obama’s charitable giving) If he dropped a dime in the church hallway he chased after it. I couldn’t and won’t respect that and you shouldn’t either!
May 25th, 2009 at 5:41 pmAs far as being a “fake business owner” I assure you that that’s what I am, I’d be surprised if I’m not listed as a donor on your welfare check. I have never complained about paying my fair share of taxes but I also don’t want money from any other man simply because he’s smarter, luckier or worked harder than I did. 20 hours per day is a slight exageration though. On my pass days from my state job 2 days a week, I only work 14 hours and I do take 5 or 6 holidays per year off. No one gives mom pizza on Mother’s day!
Steak bomb? What part of the states calls it that? We offer a “Philly” with cheddar and onions and about 10 other varieties with different cheeses and toppings. Whats different about the “steak bomb” or is it just a different name?
May 25th, 2009 at 5:43 pmSkeezix633 Says: “On my pass days from my state job (Mondays and Tuesdays, trash pickup on the interstate with the rest of the crew from the “facility”) 2 days a week, I only work 14 hours (it takes three hours each way on the bus from the “facility” to the orchards) and I do take 5 or 6 (I can’t remember too well, I get so hammered) holidays per year off. No one gives mom pizza on Mother’s day! (Least of all me)“
May 25th, 2009 at 7:41 pmWas any of that supposed to make sense? I guess maybe to someone that believes that “change” is anything other than the few pennies left in the bottom of your pockets by Obama maybe it would. Maybe you should look into a job in a “facility”…even though it’s a little tougher than collecting your welfare check at least it would be a job!
May 25th, 2009 at 7:54 pmSkeezix633 Says:
…even though it’s a little tougher than collecting your welfare check at least it would be a job!
May 25th, 2009 at 7:54 pm
Cuz everyone knows Skeezy here is the only guy in this country who ever held a job.
Who invited this moron to stick around…?
Wayne, we need to talk.
May 26th, 2009 at 2:49 amAnd still more lies. These guys could not make an honest statement if their lives depended on it.
May 26th, 2009 at 12:26 pm