Ex-Taliban official describes torture at Bagram: ‘They were beating me…until I was unconscious.’
Ex-Taliban official describes torture at Bagram: ‘They were beating me…until I was unconscious.’
In an interview with CNN, Mullah Abdul Salam Zaeef — a close ally of Taliban leader Mullah Omar and Afghanistan’s former ambassador to Pakistan — described his detention experiences at Afghanistan’s Bagram Air Base and at Guantanamo Bay in Cuba. Zaeef has since been freed and claims he is no longer a member of the Taliban. “He says he is still bitter about his time there. Closing Guantanamo Bay, he told CNN, is only part of the justice those detained there deserve”:
“It was a bad stain on American history,” he said. “If they are closing Guantanamo for justice, they have to bring the people who are torturing people, who abuse people, to justice.” [...]
“I didn’t see a worse situation in my life than Bagram,” recalled Zaeef. “They were beating me, they put me in the snow, in the cold, until I was unconscious.”
Watch it:
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Ah yes. I’ve heard that the unconscious offer valuable information.
Honestly, as a woman and as someone who is none-too-fond of any theocrats, I think the Taliban are dirt bags, but I sure as heck don’t like the idea of Americans going out there and making them “bitter”.
May 25th, 2009 at 11:02 amAfter watching, there is a factor that I didn’t consider before: he mentions the detainees who were released, and who then rejoined the fight; many were released after years of captivity, and so had lost all their possessions, and were near destitute. Under those circumstances, rejoining the Taliban could be the only means of survival in that poverty-stricken nation. Not to excuse real terrorists, but some of the lower-rung members of the Taliban probably enlist to escape starvation. Which would be a natural progression from the stories of muslim children who attended madrassas to be fed, clothed, and housed, but which radicalized them at the same time.
May 25th, 2009 at 11:05 amDick Cheney would merely say that snowboarding is an Olympic event and is therefore covered by the IOC Rules Committee and we’re safer as a country because of the snow. He’d further refine his remarks so that freezing to death is better than drowning and not illegal. “We freeze-dry coffee, don’t we and that’s not torture either.”
May 25th, 2009 at 11:06 amwhere’s sesli?
May 25th, 2009 at 11:11 amLet’s get some validation of his claims.
I hope there are some real reporters left out there…
What do the facts say?
May 25th, 2009 at 11:17 amdbadass Says:
where’s sesli?
Yeah, we want sesli!
May 25th, 2009 at 11:18 amWhat the hell is sesli, anyway?
May 25th, 2009 at 11:19 amHonor the honorable.
http://www.mapthefallen.org/
Punish the war criminals.
http://www.democrats.com/special-prosecutor-for-bush-war-crimes
Happy Memorial Day.
May 25th, 2009 at 11:22 amSince there’s no Thinkfast (from Raw Story):
U.S. prepares to withdraw, Iraqi resistance prepares for battle
Reporting from Baghdad — Baghdad will burn, the resistance leader warns.
“If we hear from the Americans they are not capable of supporting us . . . within six hours we are going to establish our groups to fight against the corrupt government,” says the commander, a portly man with gold rings and lemon-colored robes who, perhaps understandably, spoke on condition of anonymity. “There will be a war in Baghdad.”
The commander and another insurgent leader interviewed for this story belong to the secret world of Sunni Muslim tribesmen and old military officers who laid down their arms and helped bring relative peace to Iraq in the last two years. They decided to try to fight the Shiite religious parties in control of the government through political channels instead — but they never renounced the insurgency.
Now the dormant insurgent groups, with men, weapons and networks intact, are approaching their moment of truth. If their efforts to enter the mainstream fail, it appears almost inevitable that they will take up arms again, either after national elections early next year or sooner.
With U.S. forces preparing to withdraw from Iraqi cities next month, insurgent groups see no sign of progress on their demands for the Americans to guarantee their entry into the political system and protect them from the parties in power.
May 25th, 2009 at 11:27 amBarfly at 3 makes a very good point; look what happens to Army recruiting here in America when economic times are hard.
And I agree with Sandoz at 1 – the Taliban are scum, but we ought not do their recruiting *for* them.
People who are employed, who have enough to eat, whose children are safe on the streets and in school – people who have hope for the future – do NOT strap bombs onto their bodies and blow themselves up for Allah. Or for Jesus, for that matter.
May 25th, 2009 at 11:54 amThe US government had no fight with the Taliban before they refused cooperate in capturing bin Laden. In fact, the US government was negotiating energy deals with them.
Why now are the Taliban scum?
May 25th, 2009 at 12:26 pmFrom a woman’s point of view, Stewartj, trust me – the Taliban are scum. Always have been, always will be.
May 25th, 2009 at 12:29 pmYep, I would think most people would have a problem with the Taliban, but especially women.
**shudder**
May 25th, 2009 at 12:51 pm12. stewarjt Says: The US government had no fight with the Taliban before they refused cooperate in capturing bin Laden. In fact, the US government was negotiating energy deals with them. Why now are the Taliban scum?
13. Leftside Annie Says: From a woman’s point of view, Stewartj, trust me – the Taliban are scum. Always have been, always will be.
From the American perspective, unfortunately stewarjt, it basically boils down to:
Those who can generate profits for the US are allies and ‘transitional governments.’
Those who interfere or reject the US profit drive are scum and ‘totalitarian regimes.’
Also, under Leftside Annie’s definition, the Saudis, our allies, are scum; despite the fact that they are both US profit generators and totalitarian regimes (though they’ll never be referred to that in the compliant MSM.)
May 25th, 2009 at 12:59 pm” It was a bad stain on American history,” he said. “If they are closing Guantanamo for justice, they have to bring the people who are torturing people, who abuse people, to justice.” [...]
I never thought I’d be agreeing with the Taliban.
I’m not surprised I agree with hanshiro. Remember Saddam? He was an ally and an enemy at different times. I can’t even bear to think about some of the regimes we supported in Guatemala out of fear of communism.
May 25th, 2009 at 1:33 pmAh, torture for the sake of torturing. Sounds like Bushtorture, Cheneytorture and Rumsfeldtorture to me…
O/T: aMerica celebrates one hundred and ten years of US imperialism in third world countries, starting with the US slaughter of over two hundred thousand Filipinos in the 1898-1901 period of the American occupation of the Philippines.
Over 5 million people served into early graves by US aggression in the period 1898-date.
Very O/T:
On 22 May 2009, there was an article in the Oakland Tribune (CA), entitled, “”Bank speculation fuels rising gasoline prices” by Kevin G. Hall, McClatchy Newspapers. It seems that we are back to having hedge funds and other greedy Wall Street pigs jacking up the retail price of gasoline by their reckless speculation in the unregulated electronic oil futures markets.
President Obama amd the Democrats need to end these ripoffs of the American motorists now.
Here are some of my comments from last June:
We’re being ENRONed again: this time by oil futures contracts speculators who are unnecessarily and very profitably driving up the price of crude oil and hence retail gasoline prices. No, it’s not due to “supply-and-demand,” “OPEC,” nor is it due to “peak oil.” It’s due to totally unregulated electronic oil futures trading in world markets. Check out the very lucid article that explains the unseen financial machinations in oil futures markets written by F. W. Engdahl on May 2, 2008, entitled, “Perhaps 60% of Today’s Oil Price is Pure Speculation.” It may be viewed at:
http://www.financialsense.com/editorials/engdahl/2008/0502.html
In essence, oil futures contracts made by speculators, banks, hedge funds and pension funds all compete with real demand on the spot markets and have the effect of driving up both wholesale oil prices and retail gasoline prices. Speculators have made billions of dollars on their trading of oil futures contracts. All of their profits come right out of our pockets.
Without this added-on oil futures speculation “service fee,” you would be paying about $2.00/gallon for gasoline
May 25th, 2009 at 1:40 pmThis futures market serves no social need. The corporate speculators are probably also gaming/ENRONing the rice, wheat and corn futures markets the same way.
I had high hopes for “Change you can believe in.”
I still think that President Obama is a far better option than the alternative.
But:
-continuing NSA wiretapping
-caving on single payer health care
-’closing’ Gitmo while allowing Bagram to stay open
-a credit card ‘bill of rights’ that does nothing about usurious interest rates
-no reform of the banking/financial system that led to a worldwide economic disaster and then took 700 billion in bailouts as ‘punishment’ for their crimes
-refusing to appoint a special prosecutor to investigate and war criminals and make them accountable for their actions
-retooling military tribunals to try detainees because the detainees would most likely win a REAL trial
-worst of all: Standing in front of the US Constitution while proposing a policy of “Preventative Detention” (locking up people because you think they MIGHT commit a crime)
It’s getting harder and harder to believe in “Change you can believe in”.
May 25th, 2009 at 2:00 pmLooks like the more things ‘change’, the more they stay the same.
Woody and James are so off topic! Get a room, boys.
May 25th, 2009 at 2:14 pmSorry, Taliban guy. I really don’t give a damn what you say.
Maybe you should think about the “stain on American history” while you beat your wives and forbid your daughters from going to school.
The US shouldn’t be torturing people, but I really don’t care what some idiot Talibani has to say about the matter.
May 25th, 2009 at 3:04 pmThey were always scum.
May 25th, 2009 at 3:04 pmSorry just can’t muster any sympathy for an ex-Taliban official.
May 25th, 2009 at 3:26 pmAnd the red herrings continue to be served up by the new “Tausand Jahr Reich”.
It has nothing to do with Sympathy for the Taliban genius.
It has to do with WHO WE ARE.
Not torturing and beating helpless captives has NOTHING to do with sympathy or empathy for the captives.
It has EVERYTHING to do with WHO WE ARE and WHAT WE STAND FOR.
Of course fools, cowards and fascists will never understand that, which is why they are fools, cowards and fascists.
May 25th, 2009 at 3:39 pmObama… the new War president… the War criminal made in USA!
May 25th, 2009 at 4:15 pm3 barffy…
May 25th, 2009 at 4:24 pmyou have a very simplistic view of what the afghan are about. You use the term ‘terrorist’ with the same shallow explanation the media gives to dehumanize people who are fighting an OCCUPATION. You don’t even consider the US to be a Terrorist state. I say that using the same parameters the US government uses to classify someone as terrorist.
Also, you forget how the US used to love (By that I mean financing) the Taliban during the Russian assault on Afghanistan.
The USA is there not to fight Taliban, not to promote Democracy ( the US has a very poor record of democracy promotion ), they are there for the Oil pipeline only. If the Taliban, Ossama Bin Laden or Satan agrees with the US oil pipeline, Obama/Bush/Gates will be more than happy to “CHANGE” their discourse and shake hands with them without any moral consideration. Morality in fact in something the US is in much need these days…
22#
I have no sympathy for Wars of Aggression, War Crimes, Torture and Occupiers!
May 25th, 2009 at 4:27 pmLet me know why we should believe the Taliban about anything.
May 25th, 2009 at 4:44 pmI’m curious. I’m not saying it didn’t happen. Why are we so quick to take the other side. Its funny an ex Taliban crying about torture. What do they subject there own people too. He is bitter. Lets hear from a woman.
Let me know why we should believe the US Government about anything. WMD, 9/11, democracy promotion, ‘the US does not torture, we have a sound economy…
May 25th, 2009 at 5:00 pmOnce again lets cut the bullsh$t.
Liars try to sell this as “us taking their side” when in fact it has NOTHING to do with “the other side”.
This is about us. It’s about who we are and what we stand for.
If you’re so damned ignorant you can’t see that then nothing anyone’s going to say will help you.
We always ask how the fools of 1930’s Germany allowed themselves to be seduced by men like Hitler, Himmler, Goebells and Goering.
Well, now you know.
May 25th, 2009 at 5:01 pmNo one gives a sh$t about this Taliban sack of crap.
We do give a sh$t however, about who WE are, and what WE stand for.
Fools and despots never learn this lesson until they’re alone in the bunker with a Walther and a Cyanide capsule.
May 25th, 2009 at 5:04 pmThe Taliban got dropped from our “friendly” list because they wanted the people of Afghanistan to have access to the pipeline and wanted Enron/Bechtel to pay for the infrastructure.
link
May 25th, 2009 at 5:17 pm@ 15
“Also, under Leftside Annie’s definition, the Saudis, our allies…”
Lets be careful about who we are saying “our allies” are. I don’t mean to speak for Leftside Annie, but the Saudi’s are not my allies. This is a patriarchal world, I’m certainly sorry my country gives them a pass, but it doesn’t mean I give them a pass.
Again, my bottom line is that we don’t need to do the Taliban’s recruiting. But I hope this fellow thinks about how much he enjoyed his beating before administering it to a girl for doing math.
May 25th, 2009 at 5:39 pmThe SA and the SS Einsatztruppen used the same logic to justify their crimes, as they sang triumphant marching songs decrying the murder of their comrades by the “reds and reactionaries”.
Because something bad happened to them, it justified all that followed.
In their own, sick minds.
May 25th, 2009 at 5:51 pmSo, in September of 2001, U.S. government officials met this man in an official capacity, and later it was decided that he was a terrorist. He did say he would cooperate with the hunt for Bin Laden when the U.S. had evidence that Bin Laden was responsible for the 9/11 attacks.
link
May 25th, 2009 at 7:14 pmThe US government does not have the moral high ground versus any of our “enemies.” We may not like or accept the policies of these “enemies,” but the US government does not oppose these regimes for humanitarian reasons.
May 25th, 2009 at 7:25 pmYou know to make this are truly balanced story, the reporter should also interview some of the folks who jumped from the twin towers. O-wait, he can’t! Dang it, that would have been nice. Maybe this poor poor ex-Taliban, right-hand man can tell us why we cant interview those folks. I bet they would feel the same way all you Americans on this page do.
I love how you weak cattle fall to your knees in front of this poor soul when makes comments on what a bad stain this is for America. What kind of stain does the blood of 3000 folks look like? I guess you cleaned that all up and moved on.
Sad.
May 26th, 2009 at 9:14 amHow many Iraqi innocent civilians died because of the Iraq war? Here is a hint: is more than 3000.
May 26th, 2009 at 9:31 amThanks for the hint. How many were allowed to speak up about the direction their Government was taking that eventually led to those deaths? How many made a human shield to protect Kuwait from their country?
So are you saying we should have stopped when 3000 civilians had died? I’m just curious as to what you think should have been done.
Hey Stew, go ask Pakistan what they think about the Taliban? Clearly they are a peaceful folk, like yourself. Open your eyes blind sheep.
May 26th, 2009 at 9:56 amI’m saying what I said. Any intelligent person can read and understand it. It needs no explanation or interpolation. It stands on its own. Read it and weep for the tens of thousands of innocent human beings who died because of the Iraq war. Think especially of the 10 year old boy who had both parents killed and his arms blown off during a US bombing run early in the war.
Apparently innocents being killed doesn’t bother you as long as your government is doing the killing.
May 26th, 2009 at 10:03 amApparently innocents being killed doesn’t bother you as long as your countries people that are dying.
I weep for you and your ilk, for it’s puppy dog eyes like yours that stare barefoot from behind bobbed-wire looking for help from someone who told you all along that it would happen.
Don’t worry, when the time comes, no one will judge you on your current words. We will still save you.
Ask Great Britain what ignoring threats does? Go read a history book. As you are clearly doomed to repeat it.
Baa baa
May 26th, 2009 at 10:14 amWell the content of your last post is the raving of a lunatic. Rather than address the issues I raise you choose to retreat to the world inside your head and fabricate fantastic scenarios and ask me what I would do then.
Next.
May 26th, 2009 at 12:28 pmIssue? What issue? You point to one instance (in a sea of instances on both sides). I don’t argue that your story is accurate. But you need to pick a side. You have chosen to side with a guy who is(was?) an admitted, top ranking Taliban member. Who by the way looks to be in good health, seems to be eating well. Are you familiar with the “sharia” law that these fine folks wish to rule you under? Go ask any female under their rule (and get beheaded for the conversation). Do you actually think these people would thank you for your kind words on their behalf? Hell, I’d put money on a bet that they kill more kids parents by blindly shooting their AK’s into the air in celebration. Or convincing them to blow themselves up. And on and on…
You’re such a great voice against the big bad American infidels. You should walk outside and kiss the ground of the country that allows you and I to have this conversation. How can you stand to live in this gutter that is America? You should move to the next bastion of reason that would be the next Taliban stronghold, as yet another country is trying to kick them out.
May 26th, 2009 at 12:44 pmHow can this stand anymore!
We need to gather men like this up to testify in congress against the bush administration. Especially this guy. He was not some low level Taliban fighter, he was a high ranking official, which obviously speaks to his credibility.
I feel so sorry for this poor lost soul and others like him. All they want is to be able to live their life in the way their religion dictates.
May 26th, 2009 at 2:35 pm42.areyoukiddingme Says: Do you actually think these people would thank you for your kind words on their behalf? Hell, I’d put money on a bet that they kill more kids parents by blindly shooting their AK’s into the air in celebration. Or convincing them to blow themselves up. And on and on…
The idea behind the Constitution, Geneva Convention, and other treaties barring torture, arbitrary invasion, etc, is that we aren’t supposed to be the kind of people to parse out fairness and justice conditional on the aspect of their worthiness. Even Talibanis and Neo-Nazis are supposed to be treated with equal fairness under what America claims to stand for.
15 out of 19 of the 9-11 hijackers were Saudis. Why did we attack the Taliban and not Saudi Arabia?
You’re such a great voice against the big bad American infidels. You should walk outside and kiss the ground of the country that allows you and I to have this conversation.
Which is why, I suspect, stewarjt is so outspoken when he sees this country adopt policies so counter to everything we are raised to believe about America. Those who object the loudest to the misbegotten direction America has taken are, to me, the biggest patriots.
Kissing the ground is one choice, but I’d rather fight, object, and call-out the policies and continued destructive attitudes that our government is perpetuating under the bogus guise of “National Security.” How does drowning a brain-impaired detainee keep us safe? How does beating people to death keep my country safe? How did wiping over 1 million men, women and children off the face of the earth, for no good goddamn reason keep me safe?
How does irradiating thousands of future generations with depleted uranium, guaranteeing years of children with mutations and cancer, keep me safe?
It hasn’t, and I call my country out on this insanity because of it. That is most certainly not America, nor would any thinking American accept it as such.
Pick a side? Okay, how about transparency and Constitutional justice? Not the bongwater that first bush and now Obama is pushing, but real authentic good governance according to the guiding Constitutional principles and rule of law?
That’s my side.
May 26th, 2009 at 3:20 pm