ThinkFast: May 28, 2009
ThinkFast: May 28, 2009
“The average family with health insurance shells out an extra $1,000 a year in premiums to pay for health care for the uninsured,” a new report by Families USA finds. The group concludes that this “hidden tax” demonstrates the urgency of “extending coverage to all the 50 million Americans who are now uninsured.”
Tomorrow, former Presidents Bill Clinton and George W. Bush will “appear together in Toronto for what is being billed a ‘conversation.’” The former Presidents “will join in a 90-minute discussion moderated by Frank McKenna, a former Canadian ambassador to the United States, followed by a 30-minute question-and-answer session.”
Judge Sotomayor “has never directly ruled on whether the Constitution protects a woman’s right to an abortion” in her eleven years on the federal bench. When she has “written opinions that touched tangentially on abortion disputes, she has reached outcomes in some cases that were favorable to abortion opponents.”
Public reaction to the nomination of Judge Sonia Sotomayor for the Supreme Court has been “decidedly more positive than negative, with 47 percent rating the nomination as ‘excellent’ or ‘good’” and 20 percent rating it “only fair.” Though Gallup found that the public reacted more positively than negatively to the last four Supreme court nominees, Sotomayor had the second highest the net positive rating.
Secretary of State Hillary Clinton rebuffed Israel on a key Middle East peace negotiating issue yesterday, saying that “the Obama administration wants a complete halt in the growth of Jewish settlements in Palestinian territory, with no exceptions.” President Obama “wants to see a stop to settlements — not some settlements, not outposts, not natural-growth exceptions,” Clinton said.
Yesterday, in what one minister called “a declaration of war” on gay marriage, a group of ministers and gay marriage opponents “formally requested a citywide referendum yesterday to block the District [of Columbia] from recognizing gay marriages performed in other jurisdictions.” The group, Stand 4 Marriage D.C., will need 21,000 signatures to overturn the D.C. Council bill recognizing same-sex marriages performed in other states.
A USA Today review found that, “with little exception,” the $4 billion in federal stimulus contracts already awarded “has not reached states where the unemployment rate is highest.” For example, “the first contracts have amounted to only about $7.42 per person on average in the eight states with unemployment rates higher than 10%.” By contrast, North Dakota — with the lowest unemployment — has received about $26 worth of contracts per person.
“President Obama directed his national security adviser and senior Cabinet officials yesterday to examine whether the government keeps too much information secret.” Acknowledging “that too many documents have been kept from the public eye for years,” Obama tasked Gen. Jim Jones with examining procedures for handling classified information making recommendations about better information sharing.
Senior Obama administration officials “are close to recommending that Congress create a single regulator to oversee the entire banking sector” which would be “a departure from the hodgepodge of federal agencies that failed to contain the financial crisis as it ballooned out of control last year.” Other components of the plan “are an agency to police financial products offered to consumers and a beefed-up investor protection regulator.”
And finally: Washington, D.C. is abuzz over the news that Bravo will be bringing its popular “Real Housewives” series to the capital. “We’re tapping personalities who are among Washington D.C.’s influential players, cultural connoisseurs, fashion sophisticates and philanthropic leaders — the people who rub elbows with the most prominent people in the country and easily move in the city’s diverse political and social circles,” said Bravo Media executive VP and GM Frances Berwick.
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And finally: Washington, D.C. is abuzz over the news that Bravo will be bringing its popular “Real Housewives” series to the capital. “We’re tapping personalities who are among Washington D.C.’s influential players, cultural connoisseurs, fashion sophisticates and philanthropic leaders — the people who rub elbows with the most prominent people in the country and easily move in the city’s diverse political and social circles,” said Bravo Media executive VP and GM Frances Berwick.
Jeff Gannon?
May 28th, 2009 at 9:11 amI don’t like the idea of a single agency. We’ve seen entitities get too darn big…
May 28th, 2009 at 9:11 amInteresting how secrecy has burgeoned under every modern Republican administration, eh? Wonder what they have to hide?
May 28th, 2009 at 9:11 amTheir entire agenda
May 28th, 2009 at 9:12 amThe group concludes that this “hidden tax” demonstrates the urgency of “extending coverage to all the 50 million Americans who are now uninsured.”
And the way to do that is, of course, single-payer.
May 28th, 2009 at 9:14 amConservativeForProgress Says:
If you follow the MSM, you might think that all U.S. military deaths magically stopped on 1/20/09.
____________
Actually, that’s not true. Do you EVER have a real point to make?
May 28th, 2009 at 9:16 amClinton coming out yesterday and telling the Israelis to stop the settelments is a step in the right direction. The question will be if there is any meat behind those statements or if it will be just talk and buisness as usual.
May 28th, 2009 at 9:17 amCfP makes another irrelevant post, insiunating that Obama has not stopped the killing of soldiers in Iraq — he conveniently omits that none would be dead at all were it not for Bush&Co.
May 28th, 2009 at 9:20 amConservativeForProgress Says:
Where’s your outrage for the thousands who died and continue to die for Bush’s misplaced war? Or do you only care because you think you can make political hay against Obama with the deaths of these brave men and women?
That would make you a typical right winger, only using the military and their tragedies when it benefits you politically.
May 28th, 2009 at 9:22 amPublic reaction to the nomination of Judge Sonia Sotomayor for the Supreme Court has been “decidedly more positive than negative”…
Here’s the biggest problem with the SCOTUS…
Roberts
Alito
Thomas
Scalia
We need balance on the Court. Sotomayor is a step in that direction.
May 28th, 2009 at 9:22 amCFP – again you post your list of military deaths since 1/20/09. You have done this at least once before, intimating that they are all combat deaths. I asked you at that time to post your link, and you ignored my request. So either post your resource or drop this attempt to erect a strawman.
May 28th, 2009 at 9:22 amUniversal health care could not cost the average American any more than what he pays now. The insurance actuaries and statisticians run the show now, dictating to hospitals and doctors, while maintaining their profit margins.
Today, we are paying increasing costs for less service, and 50 million are uninsured.
Many lost their insurance when they lost their jobs.
Meanwhile, employers and employees are paying huge premiums to cover themselves and to cover the hidden costs of treating patients who need treatment and cannot pay.
Medicare runs pretty well especially considering its size and the age of its membership.
May 28th, 2009 at 9:26 amCFP: A Concerned troll fretting about GI deaths since 01/20/09.
Where the phuck was your concern in the years prior to that date?
May 28th, 2009 at 9:26 amConservativeForProgress Says:
I have simply posted a list that the MSM has fogotten since 1/20/09.
____________
You’re a liar. The so-called “MSM” reports all soldiers deaths.
You’re just flat out LYING.
May 28th, 2009 at 9:31 amConservativeForProgress Says:
They should all be honored.
Agreed… but, funny, I don’t seem to remember you posting the names of our honored fallen when Bush was in office?
May 28th, 2009 at 9:32 amWhen [Sotomayer] has “written opinions that touched tangentially on abortion disputes, she has reached outcomes in some cases that were favorable to abortion opponents.”
Well, that’s disturbing, to say the least.
PEACE
May 28th, 2009 at 9:32 amApparently, C4P believes that those who died during BushCo’s tenure died for a just cause, but those who continue to give their lives while President Obama attempts to stop Bush’s Folly are dying because of his leadership. What a phucking hypocrite!
PEACE
May 28th, 2009 at 9:35 amUncle Ho Says:
“Where the phuck was your concern in the years prior to that date?”
That’s easy Unc Ho, his main concern was covering his ears while yelling “LA, LA, LA, LA…” and ignoring George W, Bush’s many and varied crimes.
May 28th, 2009 at 9:36 amOthers have said this better than me, but I feel compelled to add my voice to the choir. C4P–Where was your concern when Bush and Cheney lied to get us into a war about oil and money? Where were you and thousands of soldiers were killed and mutilated? Where were you when they came home and their health care and benefits were inadequate? Where were you when they were battled post traumatic stress syndrome and depression? Where were you then? Why do you only care now when you believe you can use these deaths to smear President Obama? Your lack of true patriotism is showing. I don’t know a single liberal/progressive who didn’t still love this country under a republican president. Just once, say or do something to show us that you love this country under President Obama.
May 28th, 2009 at 9:36 amC4P isn’t here to make any meaningful point. EVER…
C4P is just bitter and resentful over the beating the GOOP took in the fall elections. He just CAIN’T git over it.
May 28th, 2009 at 9:37 amConservativeForProgress Says:
I have insinuated nothing Marie. I have simply posted a list that the MSM has fogotten since 1/20/09, just as they rarely mentioned the 7,615 soliders that died under the Clinton administration. They should all be honored.
Again, CFP – of those 7,615 deaths ONE was combat-related, and 76 were terrorist related. This compared to 2,606 combat-related deaths and 55 terrorist attack deaths from 2001 through 2006 (so two years data is not included in the charts you provided). Post the link to the deaths since Jan. 20, 2009 or shut the f up.
May 28th, 2009 at 9:37 amWinddancer, here’s CfP’s link:
ConservativeAmerican.org
Soldiers Who Have Died Since 1/20/2009
Besides keeping a running death toll since 1/20/09 (but not before then) and an “Official Obama Administration Scandals Count, the site has a countdown clock of President Obama’s time remaining in his first term of office, down to the thousandth of a second.
May 28th, 2009 at 9:40 amNow, now. Go easy on CFP. She’s a hard-working American.
It’s hard work erecting strawmen this early in the day.
In fact, it appears that she was working overtime last night to prepare this one.
I suppose she gets good health insurance with that?
May 28th, 2009 at 9:40 amCFP, isn’t here because of his concern for the deaths of Americans. He is posting only to bash Obama, and trying to make some lame rightwing point, which makes no sense. He’s just trolling to get under peoples skins.
May 28th, 2009 at 9:42 amUncle Ho Says:
CFP: A Concerned troll fretting about GI deaths since 01/20/09.
Where the phuck was your concern in the years prior to that date?
That sick minded troll doesn’t give a damn about our soldiers or our veterans. That sick phuck is using his selective argument as a political point to try to hit at Democrats. Hence its hit at Clinton for the non battlefield deaths.
If this troll gave a damn about our soldiers, it would have been speaking out against the way the war wounded and veterans have been treated over the last 8 years. Not a peep out of that sick phuck over that at all. Its just a political point to it, just so it can troll.
May 28th, 2009 at 9:43 amThis parallels our situation with firearms.
Gun mayhem costs America hundreds of billions every year. Whether he/she owns a gun or not, the average American shells out around $500 per year to clean up the mess guns create in our society.
So gun owners are practising an unauthorized form of socialism, in which the rest of the country pays for their fun.
Da Banksta
May 28th, 2009 at 9:44 amJeffboste, from a progressive’s point of view, I hope Obama asked her that question.
May 28th, 2009 at 9:44 amConservativeForProgress Says:
________________
Hey… ARSEHOLE… here’s a headline from the SF Chron… from YESTERDAY…
US military deaths in Iraq war at 4,302
By The Associated Press
Wednesday, May 27, 2009
(05-27) 16:29 PDT , (AP) –
As of Wednesday, May 27, 2009, at least 4,302 members of the U.S. military had died in the Iraq war since it began in March 2003, according to an Associated Press count.
The AP count is one fewer than the Defense Department’s tally, last updated Wednesday at 10 a.m. EDT.
______________
Every time an American soldier dies in Iraq, it makes the news. And each one hurts.
You should be ashamed of yourself… you g-damned F-in ‘ liar.
May 28th, 2009 at 9:45 amThe Republic of Hymenoptera Stupidity Says:
CFP has no shame and is proud of being a “F-in’ liar”.
May 28th, 2009 at 9:46 amConservativeForProgress Says:
17. I didn’t have to then, Rayman. The Washington Post used to post the pictures of servicemen who died in Iraq and Afghanistan. No more. The ABC Sunday show with Georgie boy used to mention the names of those killed in Iraq and Afghanistan on a weekly basis at the end of the show. No more. Before 1/20, every multiple of 100 was headlined as a milestone. Did you see any such headlines in your local paper on 5/13/09?
Where were you when me and my brothers and sisters in arms were protesting the way veterans have been treated by the Bush administration over the last 8 years? You sick phuck….
May 28th, 2009 at 9:46 amBriseadh na Firefly
Thanks for the link.
Apparently CFP did NOT work overtime last night. Visit that site for a moment, and you will find a mutitude of strawmen and politicising the deaths of American soldiers, which is very explicitly explained as their purpose of this “obama only” count.
Talk about unpatriotic partisan manipulation and misinformation, as well as an abuse of our dead soldiers.
Oh, and if you do hop over there put on a rain poncho, as the “Waaaaaaaaaa…. ucky dems!!” element is incredibly strong.
May 28th, 2009 at 9:47 amBesides keeping a running death toll since 1/20/09 (but not before then)
Conprog, kindly go fcuk yourself, Republitard a$$hole idiot.
May 28th, 2009 at 9:50 amHmm, must have offended the autodirtywordsameter.
CFP, aka goon_golly, is a liar. My local newspaper, which is certainly a member of the MSM, has reported on all combat deaths in Afghanistan and Iraq, whenever they happen. They have more specific information, naturally, on fallen soldiers from the local region.
May 28th, 2009 at 9:50 amCFP, what does posting the names of the victims of Bush’s illegal invasion do for you?
Do you just get off on the pain and suffering of our military families or do you just use them in your failed attempt to score a cheap political point?
May 28th, 2009 at 9:53 amMay 28th, 2009 at 9:54 am
CFP. I agree we should not forget those who have died in Iraq or Afghanistan — but I do not see the point of starting that list on 1/20/9 when that list began some years ago.
May 28th, 2009 at 9:55 amC4P–Go back and tell your handlers that your latest stunt was a great big flop. That dog don’t hunt. Back to the hate-mongering drawing board for you!
May 28th, 2009 at 9:55 amI think CFP just gets off on the suffering of our military families, being the lame little right wing coward that he is.
May 28th, 2009 at 9:57 amCfPee says:
The ABC Sunday show with Georgie boy used to mention the names of those killed in Iraq and Afghanistan on a weekly basis at the end of the show. No more.
Another lie. I watched that last Sunday.
Is it news that trolls lie? No.
Is the troll hijacking the thread? Yes.
That’s her purpose. And remember…
May 28th, 2009 at 10:01 amTrolls are like slinkys.
They’re not much good for anything, but it still brings a smile to your face when you push them down the stairs.
That financial regulation has a few holes. Private shadow bankers would be “supervised” by the Federal Reserve Bank, a private corporation. Privates supervising privates.
Hedge funds, private equity underwriters (PEU’s) and sovereign wealth funds (SWF’s) are notorious in keeping information private. The Fed frequently keeps information from Congress and the public.
I knew Obama favored the PEU boys. It could be seen in acts by Treasury and the FDIC. Pete Peterson’s Blackstone and David Rubenstein’s Carlyle Group got $4.9 billion in subsidy to buy BankUnited. BU will shift emphasis to commercial loans. Taxpayers helped the big money boys buy a captive bank.
As usual Obama says one thing, then does another.
May 28th, 2009 at 10:02 amwe get it, stateofthedivision, you don’t like Obama, no matter what he does or doesn’t do
geez, get over it, hillary lost
May 28th, 2009 at 10:03 amMission statement from the site (bold added to emphasize, and numerous strawmen and other psuedo-reasoning omitted):
…To point out to them the error in their ways, we have created THE OBAMA DEATH COUNT. You can find it on the right of our page. We just want to see if they will scream and chant, “OBAMA LIED! PEOPLE DIED!” After all, didn’t he say he would end the war? That’s a broken promise….Or, is it a lie?…
…If the anti-war crowd is consistent and does chant “Obama Lied! People Died,” and if they start to hate Obama for “his war” as much as they hated Bush, then we likely will take our count down. ….
…So, we’ll leave the absurd ‘Obama Death Count’ up to point out how absurd their Bush death count was. It will also draw attention to the hypocrisy and lies of the anti-war crowds.
You know, not much in there about actually feeling for the soldiers — their mission statement (to include the bits left out) is that this is politicising our fallen soldiers.
Sick f#cks.
May 28th, 2009 at 10:03 amYeah, Cagey, at least our purpose was to end the war, which is happening, in a responsible timeline
Their purpose is to smear Obama, period.
May 28th, 2009 at 10:05 am______
Doc Rock Says:
Interesting how secrecy has burgeoned under every modern Republican administration, eh? Wonder what they have to hide?
May 28th, 2009 at 9:11 am
______
That’s a good question to ask every time a Dem votes in a way libs don’t like and TP posters say the Dem is being blackmailed. Politicians just can’t be trusted. ;)
May 28th, 2009 at 10:07 amSottomayor a moderate with strong reservations about abortion on demand, go figure. Obama is the artful dodger on this issue and his plans would indicate he favors adoption over the birth control methods of the past for poor women with little chance of successfully raising their children in the new American ghettos about to engulf about 40% of the population. Healthcare is essential as a natural right to accomplish this social engineering: much like a social secuity check for each child born in a new American ghetto. Everything old is new again with the Obama gov’t. We’ll see if he can pull it off. Isreal- U.S. relations are like a married couple constantly renewing their vows while both are cavorting with the house help: same as it ever was.
May 28th, 2009 at 10:08 amnice try CFP, but you are STILL wrong
quit lying, you ignorant right wing cowardly pansy
May 28th, 2009 at 10:09 amRantingTommy Says:
Their purpose is to smear Obama, period.
I would respectfully alter that slightly: Their purpose is to smear Obama, at all costs.
To the republic fascists there is the “blue team” and the “red team”, and they are distinctly and eternally opposite each other — enemies, if you will.
Sad, really, that they see people as belonging to the “red” and the “blue”, but none of them see all Americans as belonging to the “Red, White, and Blue Team”.
Exclusionary politics.
May 28th, 2009 at 10:10 amMoving troops from Iraq to Afghanistan is not “ending the war,” RantingTommy. It is simply moving it.
Face it puke, you really don’t give a flying fcuk except for the partisan hackery. Where was your outrage during Dumbya’s tenure?
EAT SHIT AND DIE YOU FCUKING BRAINLESS IDIOT.
May 28th, 2009 at 10:11 amCFP is STILL confusing the war in Afghanistan with the illegal invasion of Iraq
They are NOT connected, other than they were both started by Cheney/Bush
ALL the deaths are due to the Cheney/Bush decision to invade Iraq to make money for their friends (and themselves)
But you know that, you’re just a dishonest little coward
May 28th, 2009 at 10:11 amIt’s Obie’s war now. He wanted the job if I remember correctly.
50 thousand troops in Iraq forever is his plan.
Another 50 thousand in Afghanistan.
Isn’t being CIC a b*tch?
May 28th, 2009 at 10:12 amspecial jay the coward is here to dance for us and increase TPs hit count, helping to further the progressive cause
May 28th, 2009 at 10:14 amupright left Says:
Politicians just can’t be trusted.
Precisely. Which is why government should operate under the greatest transparency, not the greatest secrecy. And why investigations into any and all possible illegal acts of any politcian should always occur, and in a timely fashion.
May 28th, 2009 at 10:14 amkeep dancing jay, you ignorant coward
start pretending you are the one in control now
May 28th, 2009 at 10:14 amWhole lotta crazy…
May 28th, 2009 at 10:14 amYesterday, in what one minister called “a declaration of war” on gay marriage, a group of ministers and gay marriage opponents “formally requested a citywide referendum yesterday to block the District [of Columbia] from recognizing gay marriages performed in other jurisdictions.”
They’d have to try to completely opt out of the “full faith and credit” clause of the Constitution, which means they couldn’t recognize driver’s licenses issued by other states either, among other things.
.
A USA Today review found that, “with little exception,” the $4 billion in federal stimulus contracts already awarded “has not reached states where the unemployment rate is highest.”
That’s typically the states where their politicians are grandstanding about refusing to accept stimulus funds.
.
Senior Obama administration officials “are close to recommending that Congress create a single regulator to oversee the entire banking sector”
I just hope they don’t call it a “Czar.”
.
angels81 Says:
Clinton coming out yesterday and telling the Israelis to stop the settelments is a step in the right direction. The question will be if there is any meat behind those statements or if it will be just talk and buisness as usual.
The real question is if R’s will “Carter” him for it. That’s all Carter’s been saying for a couple years now, and they treat him like some kind of demon.
.
ConservativeForProgress Says:
If you follow the MSM, you might think that all U.S. military deaths magically stopped on 1/20/09. They did not.
Actually, the MSM has pretty much toned down reporting on that since 2006 when R’s were doing all that “surge has worked” talk. Besides, I thought Bush wanted us to ignore them.
But in any case, thanks for the list. How does it honor our servicemen and women to play politics with their deaths like that, BTW? Did their families volunteer them to be used as political pawns?
May 28th, 2009 at 10:15 amjay Says:
Isn’t being CIC a b*tch?
_________
Wouldn’t know… who’s b*tch are you?
May 28th, 2009 at 10:15 amRantingTommy, you can pay attention to the soaring rhetoric and ignore the fleecing of your money to support America’s financial elite.
I’d like you to find where I ever supported Hillary Clinton. She was corporate owned from day 1.
May 28th, 2009 at 10:17 amFor those of us who have criticized Obama’s supposed flip-flop on making public more torture photos….here’s the rationale and a good one.
Check out this breaking story from the UK:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/05/27/abu-ghraib-abuse-photos-i_n_208430.html
The reason Obama is not releasing the photos: Photos of rape of a minor! It doesn’t get any more criminal or heinous than that.
There are also photos and the Teguba Report detailing other forms of prisoner rape – a woman being raped by a male guard and men being violated with an assortment of objects.
No damn wonder Criminal Cheney is out and about trying to poison the well. He’s trying to poison the well of jurors in his forthcoming criminal trial.
May 28th, 2009 at 10:19 amThe rape of the minor boy by a male interpreter is aggregious and outrageously criminal. This needs to be prosecuted and pronto!
May 28th, 2009 at 10:20 amFrom WonkRoom
Yesterday, Rep. Charles Rangel (D-NY), the chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee said that “an overhaul of the health care system won’t pass the U.S. House of Representatives unless it includes a government-financed insurance plan for consumers.”
Note the language creep. It’s down to government paid for insurance plan. i.e. provided by private health insurance companies.
Watch the details, unless you’re RantingTommy and taken by soaring rhetoric.
May 28th, 2009 at 10:20 amYou jumped right in to dance Tommy. You are also off topic as usual.
LMAO
May 28th, 2009 at 10:21 amwell, CFP, I’m sure it’s much too nuanced for you, but here goes:
Afghanistan actively supported Al Queada, hence the justified invasion
Iraq had ZERO to do with AQ or 9/11 and therefore, invading Iraq was an illegal act of agression
BOTH are Cheney/Bush created, however.
You are trying to blame the collision repair guy for the dent that your wife put in the car.
May 28th, 2009 at 10:22 amI knew I could make you dance, jay, you special little guy
May 28th, 2009 at 10:23 amWhen are we going to start an embargo against Israel! This sh*t has got to stop! Israel is a terrorist country supported generously by the US!
May 28th, 2009 at 10:25 amjay Says:
It’s Obie’s war now.
You know, if you are claiming that, then you also MUST give all credit to President Obama for every single success that occurs. No “kudos” to Bush for the wars, or for their outcomes — both the bad and the good. You cliam Bush is not responsible any longer (I presume that you don’t claim that President Obama is somehow liable for the years that Bush was President.)
Bush – responsible for the years he was president.
Obama — responsible for the years that he is president.
And implicit in your assessment, Bush cannot take credit for anything that happens while Obama is president (thus, any positive outcomes from this point on are awarded entirely to President Obama).
Are you willing to accept that?
May 28th, 2009 at 10:27 amPrepare yourselves. The US is now shuttling troops to S. Korea. The North Koreans have successfully detonated an atomic bomb and then declared the truce between the North and the South is over.
The North Koreans are moving troops towards the DMZ and have 5 million standing soldiers at their disposal.
May 28th, 2009 at 10:27 amwatchdog Says:
The Case Against Sotomayor
Her opinions, are viewed by former prosecutors as not especially clean or tight, and sometimes miss the forest for the trees
____________
Yer slow, dude. This article has already been debunked as just so much hearsay.
Try and keep up, mmmkay?
May 28th, 2009 at 10:28 amStill off topic I see. Nothing important to say?
LMAO. You came to me.
Ha Ha Ha Ha
May 28th, 2009 at 10:28 amwatchdog has been chasing too many parked cars
May 28th, 2009 at 10:29 amkeep dancing jay, you’re cute when you pretend to know stuff
May 28th, 2009 at 10:29 amI miss our old troll Exley, he gave us good comment’s and accurate sport’s scores..Gone are the day’s of quality in the troll world….LOL…Come back Exley, you are missed….Blessings
May 28th, 2009 at 10:30 am______
CageyCretin Says:
upright left Says:
Politicians just can’t be trusted.
Precisely. Which is why government should operate under the greatest transparency, not the greatest secrecy. And why investigations into any and all possible illegal acts of any politcian should always occur, and in a timely fashion.
May 28th, 2009 at 10:14 am
______
Absolutely. Every politician should answer for his/her actions or lack thereof.
May 28th, 2009 at 10:31 amConservativeForProgress Says:
——————————————————————————–
17. I didn’t have to then, Rayman. The Washington Post used to post the pictures of servicemen who died in Iraq and Afghanistan. No more. The ABC Sunday show with Georgie boy used to mention the names of those killed in Iraq and Afghanistan on a weekly basis at the end of the show. No more. Before 1/20, every multiple of 100 was headlined as a milestone. Did you see any such headlines in your local paper on 5/13/09?
LIAR
May 28th, 2009 at 10:31 amblistex11 Says:
I agree with you, but might I add (or clarify) that any and all rape is unacceptably heinous (I am afraid that I cannot quantify degrees of rape — all forms are equally bad in my opinion, and all deserving of the same punishment).
May 28th, 2009 at 10:32 amCFP throws up another straw man that ignores the facts.
MOST dealerships were already owned by right wingers, so the fact that most closures are owned by right wingers is expected.
CFP: trying desperately to invent a scandal when none is there
May 28th, 2009 at 10:36 am#84..Your home toilet is where you are suposto do your morning duty, not every thread at TP….Be gone worthless troll….
May 28th, 2009 at 10:37 amI would willingly agree to your post when you stop using Bush as an excuse for any Obama failures.
Do you agree to only blaming Obama for the failures of the country since Jan 20th as well?
It’s a double edge sword.
One exception though. The withdrawal agreement with Iraq was initiated and signed by President Bush. It was signed in 2008 so you can’t give Obama credit for that one. You can give Obama credit for the Long Standing Military Presence of 50 thousand soldiers in Iraq after the withdrawal. That’s his doings.
May 28th, 2009 at 10:38 amConservativeForProgress Says
What is the exact political breakdown of donations by all Chrysler dealers?
How many contributed to Republicans and how many contributed to democrats?
And how many of the “republican supporter” dealers in question also contributed to democrats?
More to the point — what is this evidence? If it is just that dealers that are closing donated to republicnas, then you MUST have the answers to my quesitons above to even begin to make a judgement as to motive.
May 28th, 2009 at 10:41 amThanks.
Nothing on topic to add? You’re cute when you try and sound intelligent but say nothing.
May 28th, 2009 at 10:42 amCageyCretin, what do you say. Deal?
May 28th, 2009 at 10:44 amCagey, CFP doesn’t DO evidence, only innuendo and assumption
May 28th, 2009 at 10:45 amHere’s the evidence that CFP is, true to form, STILL full of sh!t:
http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2009/05/news-flash-car-dealers-are-republicans.html
He’ll believe anything, being the ignorant cowardly rube that he is
May 28th, 2009 at 10:50 amCFP has proven himself a coward AND an ignorant knee-jerk blowhard
You were owned yet again, CFP, better go back and try again
May 28th, 2009 at 10:51 amjay Says:
I would willingly agree to your post when you stop using Bush as an excuse for any Obama failures.
Shifting the goals, eh? YOU said:
jay Says:
It’s Obie’s war now.
And I responded. You made the claim that it is all Obama’s now. But you would prefer to waffle on the particualrs. What you really weant to say is that you want to blame Obama for anything bad that you can think of, while retaining all possible praises for Bush, because you are acting out of partisan motives with a partisan agenda.
However, you are trying to reframe this discussion such that it is examining my thoughts, however it was YOUR comment that were were discussing, and YOUR opinion that it’s all on Obama’s shoulders now.
Furthermore, you want to throw in an exception. After YOU make a simple, blanket statement.
What is clear is that your answer to my post should have been — “No. Jay will not accept those conditions.” Simple. Of course, it WILL knock the legs out of your argument that everything is Obama’s fault, since you will not yourself accept the required conditions to accepting that premise.
Nice try.
May 28th, 2009 at 10:52 amread it CFP, and it does not prove your point at all
sorry, you lose
May 28th, 2009 at 10:52 amHe only deals in insults and is never on topic.
Sorry CFP, he will never admit to anything that you post here regardless of what you post to back up your arguments..
He is what he is.
May 28th, 2009 at 10:53 amlol, I just proved CFP wrong and special jay STILL can do nothing but dance
you ignorant cowards STILL have NOTHING
you lose, AGAIN
May 28th, 2009 at 10:54 amYes… by all means CFP push for impeachment. I think that will
go over splendidly. You should throw in a blue pantsuit and screech about how Obama got a hummer in said dealers own personal Chrysler.
You fu(kin’ right whiners are a gift that keeps on giving.
Keep up the good work!
May 28th, 2009 at 10:54 amA typical liberal dodge.
I agreed to your post. He takes total credit for the good and the bad since Jan 20th. That means that he can’t blame anyone else for those successes or failures.
I stand by my post. It’s all on his shoulders now.
I say what I mean and I mean what I say. Your accusations are just a Liberal dodge.
You asked and I answered. You dodged. Typical.
May 28th, 2009 at 10:59 amgood job answering special jay, Cagey
you proved him wrong and now he is trying to move the goal posts
a typical ignorant, dishonest, cowardly right winger
May 28th, 2009 at 11:00 amBlah, blah, blah, blah. Another Tommy post.
Cute.
May 28th, 2009 at 11:01 amSorry, late morning. I Don’T KNOW WHO IS WORSE CFP OR THOSE THAT POST REPLIES TO HIS POST>
May 28th, 2009 at 11:01 amTypical dodge from Cagey. You continue with the nonsense.
Blah blah blah blah.
Nothing to add Tommy? Try and stay on topic.
May 28th, 2009 at 11:03 amConservativeForProgress Says:
They should all be honored.
May 28th, 2009 at 9:26 am
__________
Ok, done. They’re now honored. Can you shut up now?
May 28th, 2009 at 11:03 amI think that Tommy should get the award for mundane posts. He hardly ever contributes to the discussion and is never on topic.
I think he is trying to “hijack” the thread. What do you think?
May 28th, 2009 at 11:05 amHow about it Cagey, done dodging?
I would willingly agree to your post when you stop using Bush as an excuse for any Obama failures.
Do you agree to only blaming Obama for the failures of the country since Jan 20th as well?
It’s a double edge sword.
One exception though. The withdrawal agreement with Iraq was initiated and signed by President Bush. It was signed in 2008 so you can’t give Obama credit for that one. You can give Obama credit for the Long Standing Military Presence of 50 thousand soldiers in Iraq after the withdrawal. That’s his doings.
May 28th, 2009 at 11:06 amjay and CFP never tire of being proven wrong
but I tire of proving them wrong, it’s too easy
May 28th, 2009 at 11:08 amMore nonsense from “The Ranter”, and as usual it’s off topic.
LMAO
May 28th, 2009 at 11:09 amTalk is cheap Cagey. I didn’t think you could agree to your own post.
May 28th, 2009 at 11:11 amjay Says:
“The North Koreans have successfully detonated an atomic bomb and then declared the truce between the North and the South is over.”
Yeah troll, wasn’t it pure genius of W. to ignore N. Korea’s burgeoning weapons program in order to invade a country with no weapons and posing no threat? It was an act of shear brainitude when W. gave all that money to Kim Jung Il while simultaneously condemning Iran? Wasn’t it the smartest thing ever to pull the lion’s share of military resources out of Afghanistan in order to fight an illegal war in Iraq, thus CREATING an insurgency in Iraq while allowing the real al Qaeda to swell it’s ranks well beyond where they were pre 9/11? Wasn’t W. flexing his old brain muscle when he gave all that money to a military dictator in nuclear-armed Pakistan so he could turn his back on a growing threat on his border? Isn’t W. quite the Einstein? Bin Laden is STILL at large (Bush family friend) but at least the oil companies, Haliburton, Blackwater etal made a lot of money!
May 28th, 2009 at 11:13 amMission accomplished for the neocon ant-American corporate @sskissers I guess.
That is why he is here. It gives meaning to his life CFP.
He constantly tells everyone here how he gets the better of people but in reality he dances for me while a real Piano player is on the keys.
May 28th, 2009 at 11:14 amDeflect much. It’s Obie’s game now. He has to deal with it.
He needs to come off the campaign trail, the election is over.
It’s all happening on Obama’s watch. You, however, keep blaming Bush like the good little Liberal that you are.
Not unexpected.
May 28th, 2009 at 11:18 amHow about it Cagey? Is this one on Obama’s shoulders or are you going to blame Bush using convoluted Liberal thought like PAA has?
May 28th, 2009 at 11:21 amThe silence is deafening.
May 28th, 2009 at 11:48 amA Patriotic Anopheles Acting Says:
And what else do the poor marginalized little crackpots have for validation? They’ve lost the torture debate, the economy debate, and now the debate over a pending Supreme Court justice.
May 28th, 2009 at 11:52 amjay Says:
It’s all happening on Obama’s watch. You, however, keep blaming Bush like the good little Liberal that you are.
So Bush basically handed North Korea a loaded nuclear bomb, and now that they’re pointing it at South Korea, it’s Obama’s fault?
May 28th, 2009 at 11:57 amJay
Some of us have other, more imprtant things to do than respond to innane posts all day.
Again, you are trying to shift the focus of the discussion onto me. I have not made any claim as to what I believe in the matter, though you make assumptions as to my position. But, we are not discussing my opinions (since I have not offered them). we are discussing your comment: that (and I paraphrase) “This is Obama’s war now.”
However, you have already backtracked from that simple position — and added your exemption about withdrawl. So what you are saying is that you disagree with your own comment. What you are saying is that “This is Obama’s war now, except for the instances where jay wishes to give credit to Bush.” Rather dishonest, in that you did not include that little caveat in your first statement of the responsibility.
Perhaps I posted something in a delerium: what PRECISELY did I blame on Bush that you are referring to, that has you so heated and angry? Please include a copy of my own words to substantiate your claim. Perhaps I could clarify my statement.
Or are you trying to place a strawman at my feet?
May 28th, 2009 at 12:03 pmYes. All but the blame you put on Bush. Bush didn’t hand N Korea anything.
May 28th, 2009 at 12:11 pmjay Says:
RantingTommy Says:
jay and CFP never tire of being proven wrong
but I tire of proving them wrong, it’s too easy
More nonsense from “The Ranter”, and as usual it’s off topic.
LMAO
May 28th, 2009 at 11:09 am
May 28th, 2009 at 12:14 pm~~~
Jay – it’s Think Fast (granted you don’t), an open thread so how can RT be ‘off topic’? Ranting Tommy owns you – completely~!~
I stated a simple fact Cagey. So answer the question.
Your statement was quite clear and so was my reponse. You can go back and read it agin if you want but if you didn’t understand it then, then I doubt you will understand it when you read it again.
jay Says:
How about it Cagey, done dodging?
I would willingly agree to your post when you stop using Bush as an excuse for any Obama failures.
Do you agree to only blaming Obama for the failures and successes of the country since Jan 20th as well?
May 28th, 2009 at 12:16 pmHow’s that?
jay Says:
Yes. All but the blame you put on Bush. Bush didn’t hand N Korea anything.
He didn’t actively DO anything either – he didn’t back up his axis of evil rhetoric. He didn’t work with the Russians or the Chinese or the Japanese or S. Korea to pressure North Korea and allowed nuclear tests on HIS watch. If you are going to blame Obama for what North Korea is doing now, you are being a moron to discount what led up to this latest episode. Here’s a hint, inaction over the past eight years contributed MORE to what North Korea is doing now than Obama’s ~150 days in office have.
Putz.
May 28th, 2009 at 12:17 pmjay Says:
How about it Cagey, done dodging?
I would willingly agree to your post when you stop using Bush as an excuse for any Obama failures.
Do you agree to only blaming Obama for the failures and successes of the country since Jan 20th as well?
How’s that?
Your definition of an Obama failure is what is really wrong here. Especially since failures made by Bush are really hard for you to comprehend. Your egregious double-standard and ridiculous short-term memory about how the stage was set for Obama when he took office (Bush’s wars, Bush’s failing economy, etc.) is really stupefying.
May 28th, 2009 at 12:19 pmHe owns nothing. He is what he is and it’s evident in his posts.
LMAO
His sole purpose here is to derail the discussions when they don’t agree with the Liberal thought process.
It’s quite evident. He is guilty of the same thing that he complains about.
When you liberals complain about “the trolls” hijacking the thread, look toward Tommy for doing the same thing.
LMAO
May 28th, 2009 at 12:20 pmAccording to Jay, prior precedent and prior conditions created by Bush are somehow off limits. If Obama doesn’t move to correct Bush’s errors in a timely enough fashion for Jay, the blame is solely Obama’s. Apparently, time exists in separate bubbles and the edges don’t at all overlap.
May 28th, 2009 at 12:22 pmMay 28th, 2009 at 12:24 pm
Tweedster Says:
He didn’t actively DO anything either – he didn’t back up his axis of evil rhetoric. He didn’t work with the Russians or the Chinese or the Japanese or S. Korea to pressure North Korea and allowed nuclear tests on HIS watch. If you are going to blame Obama for what North Korea is doing now, you are being a moron to discount what led up to this latest episode. Here’s a hint, inaction over the past eight years contributed MORE to what North Korea is doing now than Obama’s ~150 days in office have.
Here’s an example:
From Wikipedia, so you can follow the sources there if you want more information.
May 28th, 2009 at 12:24 pmjay says:
When you liberals complain about “the trolls” hijacking the thread, look toward Tommy for doing the same thing.
When an idiot resorts to blaming how people respond to him on the responders, well, he is out of ideas.
“I know you are, but what am I?”
C’mon Jay, let’s have a discussion of Bush’s tremendous success in dealing with Pyongyang. You know, the Axis of Evil member that Bush let off the hook so they develop a nuclear arsenal?
May 28th, 2009 at 12:25 pmIt’s time to take responsibility for your own actions. Obama wanted the job and now it is all on his shoulders.
In 20 years you Liberals will still be blaming Bush for everything. I understand that. It is the era of Obama now. What he does is on his shoulders.
I don’t blame you for wanting to blame everything on Bush. It’s an easy cop out.
May 28th, 2009 at 12:28 pmjay @ 129.
Instead of yelling “Typical liberal dodge” and thereby dodging the actual comment I made in the first place, why don’t you explain you actual position. I know it can’t be that everything that happens from the last day of Bush’s term is the FAULT of Obama. Otherwise, where was your critique of Bush when the biggest attack on U.S. soil happened a full nine months and many memos after Bush took office?
Stop calling names and making stupid “typical” liberal comments and put some substance in your posts.
May 28th, 2009 at 12:28 pmJay, if you would take some time to take your blind partisan goggles off, please note I haven’t lauded Obama for his dealing or not dealing with North Korea and I do believe in the concept of shared blame. You’re so black and white in your views that apparently you cannot wrap your mind around that and find it easier to just make up stupid generalities about “liberals.”
You’re a bore. How about spicing up your discussion, by , you know, actually having a discussion?
May 28th, 2009 at 12:31 pmAnother liberal cop out.
Obama is the President now. I seem to recall that under Bush N. Korea was dismantling that nuke plant. You can check it out but I doubt you will. It doesn’t fit into your dogma or talking points.
Some day Obama will have to stand on his own two feet.
I’m waiting for that to happen. So far he hasn’t been able to to do that.
May 28th, 2009 at 12:31 pmjay
May 28th, 2009 at 12:32 pmyour playbook is really short or is it your dance card?
jay Says:
It’s time to take responsibility for your own actions. Obama wanted the job and now it is all on his shoulders.
I don’t blame you for wanting to blame everything on Bush. It’s an easy cop out.
Isn’t it hilarious that jay points out an easy cop-out (of which I don’t even subscribe to, but he is in full “blanket statement mode”), after DELIVERING an easy cop out!?!?
Bush administration over + Obama wanted the job = everything Bush did is now on Obama’s watch + everything bush did is Obama’s fault.
What a crock of shite.
May 28th, 2009 at 12:33 pmI see you are back to being your old self db. A shame. Really.
May 28th, 2009 at 12:34 pmjay:
Another liberal cop out.
Obama is the President now. I seem to recall that under Bush N. Korea was dismantling that nuke plant. You can check it out but I doubt you will. It doesn’t fit into your dogma or talking points.
What is with the continuous stream of cop out’s coming from you?
On June 27, 2008, North Korea destroyed a water cooling tower at its nuclear facility in Yongbyon.[44] It has been reported that without the cooling tower, North Korea cannot create plutonium,[44] though The New York Times reported that “the tower is a technically insignificant structure, [and is] relatively easy to rebuild.”[45] The implosion was hailed as a symbolic way of showing that North Korea is committed to ending its nuclear program.
So this symbolic gesture, which apparently had NO effect on N.Korea’s weapons program, is your evidence of Bush’s success with North Korea?
If you respond by calling this a liberal dodge you are the most idiotic foolio I’ve had the misfortune to spar with in some time.
May 28th, 2009 at 12:36 pmjay Says:
I seem to recall that under Bush N. Korea was dismantling that nuke plant. You can check it out but I doubt you will. It doesn’t fit into your dogma or talking points.
Well your memory sucks, then. Here’s what happened:
In December 2002, the United States persuaded the KEDO Board to suspend fuel oil shipments, which led to the end of the Agreed Framework. North Korea responded by announcing plans to reactivate a dormant nuclear fuel processing program and power plant north of Pyongyang. North Korea soon thereafter expelled United Nations inspectors and withdrew from the Non-Proliferation Treaty.
Remind us, who was President in 2002?
May 28th, 2009 at 12:38 pmEverything that Obama does is on his shoulders now. Bush has left the building. You do love to post garbage like all the others here.
It’s time to take responsibility for your own actions.
I know you won’t. You prove that here.
May 28th, 2009 at 12:38 pm
jay is a cop-out troll.
Seriously, what is your deal? Have you read my posts on this thread? Have a I lauded Obama’s handling of North Korea? Have I blamed EVERYTHING on Bush?
NO and NO!
Yet you can’t even get around your “liberal cop-out” BS to actually discuss the facts. You are embarrassing yourself. Oh, is that another cop-out?
May 28th, 2009 at 12:39 pmLuis, he is stretching the truth – and his recall is impaired. BUT, North Korea DID blow up a non-weapons capable nuclear cooling tower as a symbolic gesture that meant as much as Bush’s “Mission Accomplished” banner in terms of being truthful.
May 28th, 2009 at 12:40 pmJay:
Everything that Obama does is on his shoulders now. Bush has left the building. You do love to post garbage like all the others here.
It’s time to take responsibility for your own actions.
I know you won’t. You prove that here.
North Korea agrees to dismantle nuclear plant – Asia, World – The … Oct 13, 2008 … North Korea said it will resume disabling its main nuclear complex after the US removed the country from a terrorism blacklist — a …
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/north-korea-agrees-to-dismantle-nuclear-plant-959412.html – 71k -
Jay, Bush was President on Oct. 13 2008, and by all evidence what North Korea said, did not happen – on Bush’s watch.
By the way, I’m not sure where “my own actions” come into play as it pertains to foreign policy between the US and North Korea.
Also, just tell me that 9/11 was Bush’s fault. It happened 9 months into his first year, so it should all be on his shoulders. Right?
May 28th, 2009 at 12:43 pmWho is the President now?
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3722168,00.html
May 28th, 2009 at 12:45 pmSo you agree that this N. Korea fiasco is on Obama’s watch, right?
May 28th, 2009 at 12:47 pmThe link Jay led us to details promises made by North Korea, nothing actually concrete had happened at that point, and the fact that they’ve recently fired a nuclear test makes me believe they never followed through with that promise to dismantle. Bush bought a lie from North Korea, this happened on his watch and led to North Korea’s continued ability to perform nuclear tests. Obama must have China exert pressure on North Korea or it will be a foreign policy failure. Bush already failed in dealing with North Korea as evidenced by N.Korea’s continued ability to perform weapons tests – which isn’t something that could’ve been totally dismantled and reassembled starting on Inauguration day.
Jay should take responsibility for being duped into believing rhetoric from North Korea.
May 28th, 2009 at 12:48 pmjay Says:
Tweedster Says:
Also, just tell me that 9/11 was Bush’s fault. It happened 9 months into his first year, so it should all be on his shoulders. Right?
So you agree that this N. Korea fiasco is on Obama’s watch, right?
Don’t answer a question with a question Jay. I am using your logic here and I want to know, based on your view of responsibility, whether or not Bush was solely responsible for 9/11 because it happened well into his watch? I’ll answer your question once you have the decency to answer the question I posed you first.
May 28th, 2009 at 12:50 pmHey I’m not the President Obama is. He’s the one who was “duped” as you say. How’s the “everyone will love us now that Obama is President” thing working?
May 28th, 2009 at 12:50 pmProgressives might be interested in how President Obama is selling out banks to private equity underwriters (PEU’s). Those same PEU’s will participate in Geithner’s PPIP program.
http://peureport.blogspot.com/2009/05/purchase-accounting-impact-points-to.html
http://peureport.blogspot.com/2009/05/geithner-should-just-back-up-cash-truck.html
PEU’s will be on both sides of the PPIP trade. They will be subsidized by the FDIC on the sell side and by Geithner’s Treasury on the buy side. Despite all this access to government subsidy, they will not be subjected to TARP rules.
RantingTommy, please ignore this post.
May 28th, 2009 at 12:51 pmAfter you asnwer, Jay, I’ll give you a response.
Here’s a follow up to consider though: Do you believe in the continuity of time? Or do you believe that each Presidential term is a sub-dimension of a grand time arc or some other temporal design?
May 28th, 2009 at 12:52 pmI don’t think so but many here do. I was pointing that out.
Using Bush as an excuse is prevalent here and in the present Administration.
It gets pretty old. Of course Bush is responsible for everything.
May 28th, 2009 at 12:53 pmTweedster Says:
Obama must have China exert pressure on North Korea or it will be a foreign policy failure. Bush already failed in dealing with North Korea as evidenced by N.Korea’s continued ability to perform weapons tests – which isn’t something that could’ve been totally dismantled and reassembled starting on Inauguration day.
Yes, Obama has to deal now with the repercussions of Bush’s North Korean failure. It IS his responsibility now. The failure, however, lies with Bush and his non-existent diplomacy. “Axis of Evil”, come on.
May 28th, 2009 at 12:53 pmjay Says:
Tweedster Says:
Jay should take responsibility for being duped into believing rhetoric from North Korea.
Hey I’m not the President Obama is. He’s the one who was “duped” as you say.
How could Obama be duped by something that went down on October 13, 2008? He wasn’t President then.
Stop side-stepping and answer my question regarding Bush being at complete fault for 9/11. I want to know where you disavow your own logic.
May 28th, 2009 at 12:53 pmThat’s the liberal in you talking, right?
Sorry, it’s a cop out.
May 28th, 2009 at 12:55 pmLuis Chapulin M Says:
Yes, Obama has to deal now with the repercussions of Bush’s North Korean failure. It IS his responsibility now. The failure, however, lies with Bush and his non-existent diplomacy. “Axis of Evil”, come on.
See Jay, both Luis and I can conceptualize time as a relatively linear process where the actions of a predecessor have effects on the successor.
It isn’t that hard.
Come on in, reality isn’t all that bad if you get used to things being complex and frustrating.
May 28th, 2009 at 12:55 pmjay Says:
Sorry, it’s a cop out.
Jay, the fact you can’t answer a simple yes or no question is the ultimate cop out. So here we go:
According to your logic, is President Bush completely responsible for the most massive national security failure in our nation’s history, that being 9/11?
YES or NO Jay, come on. I know you can do it.
May 28th, 2009 at 12:57 pmJay, I will refresh in 15 minutes. I’m sure you will be able to answer my simple question by then.
May 28th, 2009 at 12:58 pmMay 28th, 2009 at 12:58 pm
jay Says:
That’s the liberal in you talking, right?
If by “liberal” you mean “smart person who understands the basics of cause and effect”, then yes.
May 28th, 2009 at 1:00 pmAnswered in post # 152.
Do you think he was?
May 28th, 2009 at 1:00 pmMaybe you should ask CageyCretin.
I also answered the question in post # 87 asked by Cagey.
She also copped out.
May 28th, 2009 at 1:06 pmNot really. I mean “Liberal” a person who is so wrapped up in their dogma that the respond to a person with an opposing view as you do.
May 28th, 2009 at 1:08 pmjay Says:
Tweedster Says:
Jay, I will refresh in 15 minutes. I’m sure you will be able to answer my simple question by then.
Answered in post # 152.
Do you think he was?
You didn’t answer the yes or no question. You called it stupid, even though it is based on the logic you are using today. So I guess you just called your current argument stupid. Have I got that right?
May 28th, 2009 at 1:09 pmjay:
Not really. I mean “Liberal” a person who is so wrapped up in their dogma that the respond to a person with an opposing view as you do.
May 28th, 2009 at 1:10 pmIf you are so opposed to people that are dogmatic, then why can’t you provide a straightforward answer to my simple yes or no question Jay? Your post at 152 was a sidestep yet again.
jay Says:
Not really. I mean “Liberal” a person who is so wrapped up in their dogma that the respond to a person with an opposing view as you do.
Ah, so you’re also a “Liberal”, then? Welcome to the club!
May 28th, 2009 at 1:12 pmJay says:
So, it’s also Obama’s fault that the Titanic sank?
May 28th, 2009 at 1:15 pmWow Jay, what an utter failure you were on this thread. You don’t even have the stones enough to exercise your “logic” consistently. How very unprincipled and cowardly of you.
May 28th, 2009 at 1:16 pmMay 28th, 2009 at 1:21 pm
alpuz3 Says:
jay Says:
The silence is deafening.
His circuitry overloaded trying to process his massive contradiction. He’s a bona fide clown shoe, that Jay.
May 28th, 2009 at 1:25 pmWell, to use one of his favorite sayings…
May 28th, 2009 at 1:26 pm
alpuz3 Says:
Well, to use one of his favorite sayings…
He is what he is.
I prefer the Popeye expression, “I yam what I yam.”
May 28th, 2009 at 1:30 pmI think I answered the question twice here today. I blame Bush for 9/11 but not just him. I also blame Clinton for the first Trade Center bombing,the USS Cole, and the Somalia fiasco.
There were many things that Bush did that I disagreed with and said as much when they happened.
Now it’s Obama’s watch.
Deal with it.
May 28th, 2009 at 1:48 pmI also blame Bush 1 for not removing Saddam in the first Gulf War. If he insisted in removing Saddam then, instead of listening to those who wanted to end things when they were half done, the Second Gulf war might not of happened.
You people want to blame Bush for everything. That’s pitiful in my opinion and it gets old quick.
May 28th, 2009 at 1:52 pmYou have a problem with reading English along with all the others here. Blame Bush, it’s the easy way out but sooo convenient.
Obama has to learn how to stand on his own two feet, just like all Presidents had to. You should allow him to do that.
May 28th, 2009 at 1:55 pmAnd you are what you are.
If rhetoric had any value, then you would be rich.
May 28th, 2009 at 1:56 pmAnswer a question for me now.
Do you think that if Clinton had dealt with Al Quaeda in the 90’s, 9/11 might of been avoided?
May 28th, 2009 at 2:02 pmjay Says:
Answer a question for me now.
Do you think that if Clinton had dealt with Al Qaeda in the 90’s, 9/11 might of been avoided?
May 28th, 2009 at 2:02 pmI have to correct myself here. The USS Cole was bombed on October 12th so that makes it on Bushes watch.
It was Bush’s fault.
May 28th, 2009 at 2:07 pmJay
I actually made no statement of my position (please re-read the posts above. If you can’t understand them after that, then I can’t help you.).. What I did was expand upon the implications of your statement, which you are continually repeating, and that being that “everything whatsoever is on Obama’s shoulders since jan 20″. But you Do want to add exclusions to that. (My personal position is much more complex that your simplistic view).
As soon as you add one exclusion to that rule, you invalidate the rule.
So… you have already stated that Bush gets all ‘kudos’ for a withdrawl plan. Suppose that at some point in the future Iraq stabalizes — will you say that it was because of Obama, or because of Bush? How many exclusions are there to your rule? And if they apply to something begun but not completed in a prior administration (such as the withdrawl plan that you specified as belonging to Bush, even though it has not been successfully implemented yet), what else is there, or, more to the point, what failures inefficiencies (such as independent contracts) carry over in the same manner?
If this is, as you put it, Obama’s war, then I suppose that you believe he should be able to cancel all contractors and re-bid all outside contracts? Otherwise, he is saddled with someone elses’ decisions that seriously impact “Obama’s war”. If it is his war, then he should have absolute controls, including negating (legal) contracts so that he can re-arrange them into what he believes is a more efficient arrangement.
And who was responsible for the failures that allowed 9/11 to occur? Whose watch was that on? Anthrax attacks? Who was in charge?
And you claim that if I stop blaming everything on Bush then you accept the premises of the hypothesis that YOU presented. How magnanimous of you. Espescially since you have not shown where I have “blamed everything on Bush”. Ooohhhhh…. I’m just a “typical lib”. Funny, that.
Oh, and saying “typical lib” is not an argument nor a retort — in fact it is ad hominem — attacking the arguer, not the argument. The purpose of ad hominem is to denigrate the person posing an argument while ignoring the argument itself. It does not mean that you do not have an argument to present, but it does mean that you refuse to discuss honestly and present your argument — or that you fear your argument is not strong enough, and so must attack the other person in order to hopefully bolster your argument, or at least to make others believe that the other person’s argument is not deserving of merit because the other person is “X” (in your case, you like using “typical lib” quite often as your ad hominem). Your use of “lib” is also something of a dysphemism — the word itself is supposed to denigrate the target by the nature of the word.
I will not continue to enumerate the variety of pseudo-reasoning and illogical arguing methods that you use. You might be capable of rational discussion, however you apparently choose to not use those skills. Pity.
And your definition of “liberal” is quite funny. However, then your definition of conservative must be “one who agrees with what they are told and do not contradict others”? The definitions of the two must hold some parrallel, by the virtue of the two ideologies.
May 28th, 2009 at 2:09 pmCageyCretin Says:
jay Says:
It’s Obie’s war now.
I agreed to your statement.
I agreed to that also.
I also agreed. Even when I knew 9/11 happened on Bushe’s watch.
I agreed to that also.
I agreed also to that.
You however refused to agree that it was Bush who signed the arrangement with Iraq to remove the troops by July 2009 and Obama had nothing to do with it.
Now that is hypocritical considering what you posted above.
You dodged all my references to that one point and continue with spouting your liberal dogma.
May 28th, 2009 at 2:21 pmAnd so are mine. You refuse to recognize that.
Of course you are the only one who has the right to make a comment. right?
Iraq has stabilized. Now if it destabilizes that is on Obama’s watch. It’s a hypothetical statement.
“independent contracts”???? How is that relevant to your first discussion? It’s not. You now are trying to cloud the discussion with things that were not in your original post.
You want to start another post about “independent contract” feel free to do so.
May 28th, 2009 at 2:30 pmI’ll be back to read how you are going to answer those posts.
Cagey, please make them short and to the point.
You seem a bit long winded in your replies. I’m not impressed in your attempts to dodge what you actually posted with long winded rebuttals.
Try and answer post # 178.
May 28th, 2009 at 2:40 pmTry this one if that one is too tough for you.
Do you think that the President is always responsible for what happens to the country while he is in office?
Or is it always someone else s fault?
Sorry that’s two questions.
Take a crack at either of the two or if it’s not too tough for you, answer both of them.
May 28th, 2009 at 3:18 pmAgain I have to correct myself. Silly me, I relied on a liberal site for my information.
It happened on October 12th 2000. OOPS back to Clinton as I originally thought.
May 28th, 2009 at 3:43 pmCome on jay just 14 more….
May 28th, 2009 at 5:27 pmAs you can see db. They are eager to spin, accuse and ask questions but seldom answer any. They couldn’t even answer the easy ones.
LMAO
They had no longevity.
It’s not my fault. Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha…….13………
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May 29th, 2009 at 6:30 am