Horton confirms reports that unreleased torture photos show rape and sexual assault.
Horton confirms reports that unreleased torture photos show rape and sexual assault.
This week, the Daily Telegraph reported that the torture photos President Obama recently decided to withhold from the public depict “rape and sexual abuse.” The Pentagon denied the report, saying, “None of the photos in question depict the images that are described in that article.” But yesterday, Scott Horton reported that he has confirmed that the photos do, in fact, “depict sexually explicit acts,” including “a government contractor engaged in an act of sodomy with a male prisoner and scenes of forced masturbation,” as well as “penetration involving phosphorous sticks and brooms.” Horton writes further:
A senior military officer familiar with the photos told me that they would likely provoke a storm of outrage if released. … Some show U.S. personnel engaged in sexual acts with prisoners and each other. In one, a female prisoner appears to have been forced to expose her breasts to be photographed. In another, a prisoner is suspended naked upside down from the top bunk of a bed in a stress position. [...]
Still other withheld photographs have been circulating among U.S. soldiers who served in Iraq. One soldier showed them to me, including a photograph in which a male in a U.S. military uniform receives oral sex from a female prisoner.
Horton also obtained what he characterizes as “rarely seen Abu Ghraib torture photos,” which can be viewed here.
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What is it about groups of men and all their homoerotic behaviors. Who would have thought that trained professionals would behave like fraternity brothers….
May 30th, 2009 at 9:08 amHauling all the responsible dirt bags from the last administration in to court and handing down punishment would end this mess…President Obama needs to allow the investigations to go full steam ahead, if not we will have a huge shit storm festering and then exploding with bad results leveled at the dem’s…Getting all the truth out is the only way for our country to go forward…..P. B. & J
May 30th, 2009 at 9:18 amShocking.
Deplorable.
I’m damn near speechless.
Fcuk those sonsab*tches for their criminal behavior on OUR BEHALF.
DAMN THEM ALL TO HELL.
May 30th, 2009 at 9:30 amlet’s see the good, god fearing, “christian” trolls defend this kind of behavior.
May 30th, 2009 at 9:31 amThe Pentagon cannot be trusted to investigate itself on this. And at this point, with all the lies they’ve repeated about the whole prisoner abuse thing, their opinion should be ignored by the president. These photos are evidence of War Crimes. If our nation does not immediately begin an investigation into this, other nations will exercise their legal rights to do so.
May 30th, 2009 at 9:33 amother nations will exercise their legal rights to do so.
BRING.
IT.
ON.
Obama, if you pussy-foot this travesty any longer, you’re going to lose EVERY BIT OF SUPPORT FROM THE LEFT.
I FCUKING GUARANTEE IT.
May 30th, 2009 at 9:35 amWhy this would be a surprise is beyond me! This is what occupying countries do. When you have no consequences to your actions ultimately there will be some who take the sexual abuse route. We have not been in that many wars of aggression so I guess Americans had a lot of pent up neurosis
May 30th, 2009 at 9:35 amRumsfeld and Graham confirmed this FOUR YEARS AGO. It must’ve gone into the memory hole.
I even had a letter published in Newsday about this back in July 2005:
http://cynicor.blogspot.com/2005/07/letter-to-newsday-time.html
May 30th, 2009 at 9:36 ami want to hear our resident trolls Johm M,CFP, and proud mary explain to me how having a broom stick shoved up your arse isn’t torture. then again, they’re cancervatives so that’s an average saturday night when they can afford to have jeff gannon over
May 30th, 2009 at 9:40 amIF you think this is ugly, wait until they admit to the child rape/sodomy. Often done in front of families. I doubt that will play well in Asia or in the US. It’s time for bushco to defend their actions in a court of law.
May 30th, 2009 at 9:44 amFrom Cynicor’s letter (my emphasis added):
May 30th, 2009 at 9:45 amRepublican senator Lindsey Graham has said that they’re evidence of “rape and murder.” Even Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld has said that these photos depict “acts that can only be described as blatantly sadistic, cruel and inhuman.”
The Pentagon denied the report, saying, “None of the photos in question depict the images that are described in that article.”
Wayne, I completely agree. The Pentagon is culpable and it goes all the way to the top. No wonder Rumsfeld hasn’t been heard from lately.
This was decidedly not a few bad apples, Mr. President.
PEACE
May 30th, 2009 at 9:49 amThe noose is tightening around Criminal Cheney’s neck!
May 30th, 2009 at 9:50 amThe rightwingers have defended these sorts of things – they say they were performed by a few “bad apples” or
the “terrorists” are subhuman. They will hide behind the flag of patriotism, in total denial of the desecration of everything our flag once stood for — we and our descendants will pay for this for generations.
These despicable acts were ordered from the top – not for a minute do I believe that low-ranking military did these things, and photographed them without the assurances – if not the explicit orders – of their superiors — all the way up to the Oval Office.
We should not reduce outselves to the level of Bush&Co, and become as immoral and lawless as they, but it would be understandable if were they to undergo these kinds of treatments. We, however, must resist the desire to inflict upon them what they inflicted upon others, yet at the same time, we must demand that they are subject to prosecution under the law.
May 30th, 2009 at 9:51 am#9
May 30th, 2009 at 9:51 amThis saved lives? Valuable intel was obtained by making guys jack-off that ensured the safety of the Applebee’s eaters in anytown USA….
The buck stops at the top and the climate of torture was endorsed heavily by the Bush Crime Cabal (Rumsfeld, Cheney, Bush, Gonzales, and all of the other sycophants involved); in fact, the torture okay emanating from the POTUS/VPOTUS began one month in advance of them going to their pimp lawyers begging them to write bogus law because they knew they would one day fry for their actions.
No damn wonder the VP Dick is out there with his daughter trying to save his a$$ for weeks!
Rummy’s become an AWOL lush and Herr Bush is going gray right before our eyes.
Anyone else suspicious of Cheney’s “wheelchair stunt” at Obama’s inaugural? This guy was creating a mental picture of failing health so we would go easy on him…..not going to happen.
May 30th, 2009 at 9:54 amAbsolutely–just look at Israel. It would seem that occupying a foreign country turns the conquerers into moral degenerates.
May 30th, 2009 at 9:54 amFe-fi-fo-fum….I smell bright orange jumpsuits coming to the wardrobes soon of the Bush Crime Cabal.
May 30th, 2009 at 9:55 amJohn Bolton, another warmongering a$$hole, was on Bill Maher last night defending Bush&Co, when he wasn’t criticizing Sotomayor.
Maher’s show was lame last night – two repugniscum – joined only later by a young, smart lawyer who put the repugs in their place, but he was given short shrift.
May 30th, 2009 at 9:56 amThe ONLY point here to be made is that these so-called ‘bad apples’ (code for “fall guys”) did this with the blessings of the chief officers of this country. This is the climate which Cheney/Bush created and under which they operated – committng these ‘crimes against humanity’.
If anyone has served in our military, you KNOW beyond a shadow of a doubt that you don’t fart unless your CO okays it.
Sadly for the Bush crime cabal, the only place where the buck stops is at their desks.
May 30th, 2009 at 9:58 amHi Marie! You mean “Captain Kangaroo”?
May 30th, 2009 at 9:58 amDNFP: Lindsay know.
May 30th, 2009 at 9:59 amHorton is wrong on his language: the soldier is not “receiving oral sex,” but orally raping a female prisoner. Calling it “sex” or saying he was just “receiving” implies consent. It’s a violation. It’s like calling waterboarding “forced swimming.”
May 30th, 2009 at 9:59 amSo they pat each other on the ass after each touchdown, “ball tap” each other all through highschool, gwt off on watching other dudes masturbate, and like sticking phosphorus sticks up other men’s asses but their not gay… Oh no we are talking real men here….
May 30th, 2009 at 10:07 amLet’s also remember that the same treaty we often cite that bans torture also bans the cruel and inhumane treatment of prisoners, regardless of their Geneva Conventions status. The right wing has, so far, successfully shifted the frame of the discussion to one of whether or not waterboarding is torture, and whether or not when we did it we were torturing people. I hear no one saying, “Even if it isn’t ‘torture’, it’s still cruel and inhumane treaty, which is banned by the same treaty. So it’s still not justifiable.” Instead, they seemed to be operating in a framework of “If this wasn’t ‘torture’, then it wasn’t illegal.” Well, even if it wasn’t ‘torture’, it was still cruel and inhumane treatment and I don’t think any right-winger can deny that. So it was still illegal, and it was still a War Crime. Let’s remind our elected representatives of that when we write to them.
May 30th, 2009 at 10:08 amdbadass, I don’t believe they are gay, sexual sadest seems more like it along with domaneering wackos…This is what the last administration created by their own actions,,,P,B. & J
May 30th, 2009 at 10:11 amWitch!:
May 30th, 2009 at 10:15 amI agree. I just find it interesting that the most homophobic men I have met are the ones that do the “gayest” things… Sporties, fratboys, and servicemen all seem preoccupied with male/male sexuality. I am currently working on a study of these behaviors. It sort of grew out of an intial question as to why teen males “balltap” but has sort of evolved beyond that initial observation… Ethology is the shits…
Seymour Hersh was way, way out in front of this by at least 5 years:
(Via boingboing. Also DailyKos.)
So, where is this vengeful, merciful, just ‘God,’ since Congress and Obama sure as hell ain’t doing diddly except covering it up?
May 30th, 2009 at 10:20 amdbadass,.extra long deployment, frustration with the last administration, accepting many who should not be in the service also adds to your study, I would guess…Like all the horrible crimes from Nam, wars bring out the worst and some of the best…
I thought briefly our country was becoming more civalized after Nam, sadly I was wrong…Until waring is outlawed and ended we will continue to see the horrible thing’s that people do when they are in power…Blessings
May 30th, 2009 at 10:23 amHi Merdad.
May 30th, 2009 at 10:29 amYou forgot to mention W. Parody requires practice…
Oops yes you did. Good one. I missed it im my initial perusal of the rambling silliness. Torture gives not useful intel. Ask the professionals…
May 30th, 2009 at 10:31 amSaddam Hussein had and used weapons of mass destruction including chemical weapons (provieded by the U.S.); committed genocide; raped, murdered, and tortured people.
George Bush had and used weapons of mass destruction including chemical weapons (cluster bombs and white phosphorous, depleted uranium shells); is responsible for genocide (allowing it to occur while an occupying force); raped, murdered and tortured people.
Saddam Hussein was captured, tried and hung, his hanging videoed and placed on the internet for the world to see.
George Bush goes around freely, with armed bodyguards at taxpayer expense, getting paid to give speeches, videoed and placed on the internet for the world to see.
I am beginning to see truth in Bush’s statement, “They hate us for our freedoms.”
May 30th, 2009 at 10:31 amI can understand the desire not to release these publicly. Even blurred, photographs of prisoners of war being sodomized and tortured would be very disturbing.
However, transparency is essential in a democracy. If the photographs cannot be seen then it is difficult to determine if the crimes in the photographs have been prosecuted. Without transparency it is impossible to know if each photograph is being withheld because of the subject matter or because perhaps it contains evidence that a higher officer was present or conducting the abuse.
The national archives provides a middle ground. The photographs can be released by the national archives so they can be viewed in Washington by journalists and government watchdogs, but not disseminated on the Internet. There are already volumes of documents available in just this fashion.
May 30th, 2009 at 10:31 amMerdad:
May 30th, 2009 at 10:33 amWe both know you are a fraud but might you try and hone your craft by trying to explain away this….
http://explore.georgetown.edu/news/?ID=20647
which god Merdad?
May 30th, 2009 at 10:34 amROFLAO..Nurse betty forgot to hand out med’s to the nut case trollies this morning…Would TP please call her to deliver the lithium canester to the wacko troll..We use to have hospital’s open for the brain dead but the reich let them all loose and hired many like rove to serve…P,B, & J.
May 30th, 2009 at 10:34 amMerdad, whether a prisoner is sodomized by Uday Hussein or Donald Rumsfeld makes little difference to the prisoner. Nobody denies that Iraq was a brutal regime prior to the invasion. That is one of the main reasons why they are our enemy. Our country, however, is primarily responsible for its own actions. Our crimes in Iraq may represent only a fraction of the crimes that came before, but they are no less reprehensible.
The argument you are making is along the lines of suggesting a brutal murderer and rapist go free since its only their first offense. At least they’re not a serial killer, right?
May 30th, 2009 at 10:35 amDNFP #6,
I’ve been absent from these parts for some time because I feel exactly as you wrote. I’ve written, called and e-mailed my rep.’s and all I ever get back are canned response e-mails.
Everyone says to get involved, write your congressman, your senator etc…. What good does it do? Our elected officials don’t give a shi*
And as for Obama, I voted for him but am equally disgusted with this whole sweeping this issue under the rug. I don’t care who he nominates for the SC, it doesn’t excuse not prosecuting past crimes.
I’m so fed up with this Admin already. Please, someone let me know when we go back to the rule of law. Until then, I’m mostly tuning out.
May 30th, 2009 at 10:37 amWas it libs that supported the Shah? What about all those central American dictators? Wasn’t that Reagen that adored them so? Hussein was a lib supported dictator? Damn Merdad makes parodies look bad…
May 30th, 2009 at 10:37 amso which god is that.
May 30th, 2009 at 10:39 amMerdad, it is possible to be a liberal/progressive and a Christian. Please do not assume that all liberals hate God.
May 30th, 2009 at 10:39 amMerdad reads like satire.
May 30th, 2009 at 10:42 am30. Merdad Says: The gay loving, anti Christ, anti US, anti military libs have defended Osma Bin laden and his criminal (murders) gangs since 2001.
There are more veterans among the dems than the republicans…but don’t let facts get in the way of your jingoism…
These murders needs to be put to death after giving them a chance to confess to their crimes. We need to defeat them not meeting with them.
Yes, we need to give them a ‘fair trial’ before their execution…
During the campaign, then Senator Obama tried to destroy the military, calling them thugs that bombard the villages, and killed kids and pregnant woman.
Yes, Obama incresed the military spending, yet he was somehow trying to destroy them; not like the republicans who didn’t give them proper equipment or care….”hillbilly armor” ring any bells? Can you say “Walter Reed scandal?”
Hey Libs, keep in mind that GW Bush prevented another attack for 7 years.
So did Clinton, and 9-11 was on bush’s watch after his month-long vacation after the infamous PDB.
These moslem killers are the one that beheaded WSJ Daniel Pearl.
And the 9-11 hijackers were overwhelmingly Saudi. Plus, we attacked the wrong country and wiped out, tortured and irradiated millions of innocent men, women and children. Inequity abounds..
We conservatives, and graduate of Limbaugh Institute of democracy love this county and will defend the flag of patriotism.
You just don’t serve and prefer deferments and dispensations.
How about you libs? You guys are for burning the flag and hide behind 1st amendment.
The difference is we don’t hide our crimes behind John Yoo and “National Security” designations. Show me a ‘Limbaugh Conservative’ and I’ll show you a racist coward who follows a drug addicted Oxy smuggler and who visits countries known to peddle child prostitutes.
What else you got?
May 30th, 2009 at 10:42 am45 – Nature’s God, according to Jefferson.
May 30th, 2009 at 10:43 amI’m certainly glad that the Chimp, Deadeye Dick, Condi, and the rest of the Bush Crime Family all convinced me that the United States doesn’t torture. The revelations in this story only cement that view in my mind. My guess is that these pictures were all photoshopped by the liberal media so Rush and Sean the Manatee could come to the rescue of the Bushies. Maybe it was Bill Clinton who took the pictures?
May 30th, 2009 at 10:43 amBriseadh na Firefly Says:
Merdad reads like satire.
Either another raving loon troll, or someone doing a pretty good job of imitating one, probably just for attention.
May 30th, 2009 at 10:45 am40.Merdad Says: Shame on Briseadh na Firefly comparing our great president GW Bush to a murder like Saddam Hussein.
Totally inaccurate, I agree. bush had a much higher body count than Saddam; in a fraction of the time!
May 30th, 2009 at 10:45 amLooks like Merde has overdosed on Cheetos again.
May 30th, 2009 at 10:46 amNone of the supposedly, “leaked” photos are NEW. They were all released back in 2006 by salon in a report called, “The Abu Ghraib Files”
http://www.salon.com/news/abu_ghraib/2006/03/14/introduction/index.html
Several News organizations have been posting the images that were published by salon 3 years ago and trying to claim that they’re leaked from the photos that are currently being deliberated on by the courts.
May 30th, 2009 at 10:47 amYeah, but not good satire.
It reads like a high school kid drunk on his first vodka, thinking he can write an episode of The Office.
May 30th, 2009 at 10:51 amHmm… I may have given Merdad too much credit. It’s sounding more and more like a middle schooler.
May 30th, 2009 at 10:53 amMerdad –
I love my country, much as I love my four children:
I have high expectations for them; I treat them as I want to be treated; if they misbehave, there are consequences; they have been taught that nothing matters more than how you treat others.
May 30th, 2009 at 10:56 amI see we have a troll defending these practices – we’re not surprised though are we?
Immoral persons do not have a moral compass that tells them what is wrong. No conscience to nag them. No feeling in their “gut” that would prevent them from reducing themselves to this level of inhumanity.
They play with semantics, redefine “torture,” and excuse sadistic and violent behavior, as justified — only in their twisted minds.
Lord of the Flies?
May 30th, 2009 at 10:57 amralph the wonder locust Says:
Hmm… I may have given Merdad too much credit. It’s sounding more and more like a middle schooler.
To be fair, sometimes we can sound pretty immature ourselves.
To be poignant, sometimes all some conservative people here can do is pour gasoline on a fire bomb. Or split off on a severe tangent.
May 30th, 2009 at 10:59 am57.Merdad Says:
hanshiro the antlion Says-There are more veterans among the dems than the republicans…but don’t let facts get in the way of your jingoism...you wrong pal. have you heard code pink, Barney the fag, Harry reid, queen bee-nancy pelosi<
Smackdown in 3….2….1….
Sense a trend? Let me boil the republicans performance down: “Avoided the draft, did not serve.”
Suck. That. Merdad.
The rest of your assertions are as weak or worse. Go pout on some other site, baby dear…
May 30th, 2009 at 11:02 amGood luck with that.
No wonder you’re so bitter. Going through life with unrealistic expectations born of delusions is bound to leave one disappointed. You have my sympathy. Now if only you’d recognize your folly, instead of persisting in it…
I’ll bet you think working all day to put food on the table, then coming home and demanding your dinner and sex, in that order, is “how to love a woman”, too, huh? After all, it’s her fault that you hit her. She shoulda made sure your meat loaf was hot enough.
May 30th, 2009 at 11:03 am#59 asks about Husseins gassing of Kurds — I guess he isn’t smart enough to know that Rumsfeld gave Hussein the gas for the very purpose it was used.
Someone asked this sick troll to read a short article on torture — I read that article — I don’t think the words are easy enough for the troll. He shows evidence of not having progressed beyond the 5th grade in his home-schooled, fundamentalist education — you know, the religion that thinks God would approve of these torture practices.
May 30th, 2009 at 11:03 amI think I see the problem…
Merdad is an ESL student. And not a very good one.
May 30th, 2009 at 11:04 amchicken and waffles Says:
Is this what you progressives consider “supporting our troops?”
Bulletin: supporting our troops does not extend to rape & torture, nor does it extend to the civilians who goaded troops into torturing prisoners. Pay attention.
May 30th, 2009 at 11:08 amThose scumbags got what was coming to them…too bad you liberal pricks didn’t get the same treatment…
May 30th, 2009 at 11:09 amMerdad said:
hey pal. why don’t you gay loving libs show the Saddam’s gas chamber pictures
Please explain to us what Saddam’s gas chambers have to do with 1) Bush’s illegal invasion and occupation of a nation that never once threatened the United States? and 2) how gas chambers relate to the United States’ violation of the Geneva Convention and our own laws in the form of torture?
And before you come back with the ho-hum argument about invading Iraq to liberate its people from a dictator, please tell us why the United States has not invaded any dictatorships in Africa. Oil perhaps?
May 30th, 2009 at 11:09 amBy demanding accountability among those serving in our name and representing our nation? Yes.
Is the kind of behavior displayed in these images the face of America you want to project around the world?
May 30th, 2009 at 11:10 amMerdad remains a piss poor parody and chicken and waffles is just a hayseed breakfast…
May 30th, 2009 at 11:10 amMerdad Says: Hey Patty- u are arguing about some pictures that libs in GB paper printed. The Brits are coward anyway. it was not because US military, Brits were living in caves now. Those pictures are noting compare to what they did to Daniel Pearl. Teach your 4 kids to love this nation, and teach them to boycott the MSNBC, CBS, NBC and Clinton Network News (CNN). Teach them to listen to Sean and Rush, and watch Fox…
Ahhh, Merdad, my four young adults/teens are compassionate, intelligent, and interested in public affairs. Even if I knew you, I’d not take your suggestion as to which companies to boycott/which to support; knowledge is power, and the more one knows, the more one can make wise, informed decisions.
Rather than too much listening and watching, my sons read, too — what a concept.
May 30th, 2009 at 11:11 amaceomalley7:
May 30th, 2009 at 11:11 amHow have you been? Same treatment? What you want me to jerk off? Damn you guys are so gay…
Thanks, assomalley.
Now when trolls try to smear all of us with RHF’s abusive comments, we can simply point to yours as a valid counterpoint.
You’ve done us a service.
May 30th, 2009 at 11:12 amchicken and waffles Says:
Is this what you progressives consider “supporting our troops?”
I fully support our troops.
I don’t support the rape and sexual abuse of ANY prisoners, whether they be foreign or domestic.
May 30th, 2009 at 11:12 amaybe you’d better talk to your cohort assomalley about being “judge and jury”, hm?
May 30th, 2009 at 11:14 amAlmost forgot:
Ch-ch-ch-Chickenhawks! Chance to hold a gun makes ‘em turn and run….
May 30th, 2009 at 11:14 amMerdad,
You are neither funny nor inoffensive.
May 30th, 2009 at 11:15 amDown the road, Americans reading of this time in their country’s history will likely shake their heads — if not cry — at the ludicrous positioning:
We’re forcing democracy in the name of “justice” through torture.
If it weren’t so disgusting, it could be a Highlights Magazine “What’s wrong with this picture?” feature.
May 30th, 2009 at 11:16 amHey Merdad, get up so I can knock you down again….
May 30th, 2009 at 11:17 amaceomalley7 Says:
Those scumbags got what was coming to them…too bad you liberal pricks didn’t get the same treatment…
It is so easy to scorn the imprisoned when one is in a position of power. What if the tables were reversed? What if you had been on the receiving end of this shame and punishment?
You know, ace, I dare you to try that on a liberal. Go ahead. Find the next war protestor and give them the same treatment. There’s nothing stopping you from doing so except for the entire judiciary system.
May 30th, 2009 at 11:18 amMerdad.
May 30th, 2009 at 11:18 amAriel smell fishy. Teach her better hygeine…
We conservatives, and graduate of Limbaugh Institute of democracy love this county and will defend the flag of patriotism. How about you libs?
FCUK OFF!!! NOW PLEASE.
You idiots still live under the illusion that Osama Bin Ladin is wanted for the 9/11 attacks!!!! Go to your local FBI office and look at the poster. You will see, he is NOT wanted for the 9/11 attacks!!!! Ask a FBI official why is he not wanted for 9/11 and you will get the reply…there is no evidence he is responsable.
Take the time to watch this documentory done by 400 Italians about the FACTS about 9/11 and how the GOVERNMENT does NOT WANT TO FIND THE FACTS. OPEN YOUR FCKEN EYES AND DEMAND AN EXPLAINATION NOW BECAUSE WHEN A NUK GOES OFF IN AN AMERICAN CITY, IT WONT BE THE TERRORISTS WHO DID IT….IT WILL BE THE SAME PEOPLE WHO COMMITTED 9/11….CPAC,AIPAC,CARLYLE GROUP,HALLIBERTON AND MOSSAD OF ISREAL!!!! PAYED OUT BY PAKISTAN OFFICIALS USING MUSLIMS AS THE SCAPE GOAT.
Have the guts to watch and be angered about your government???
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2296490368603788739
The lies can’t hide forever!!!!!!THE TRUTH WILL COME OUT!!!!
So please stop with your bull shite until you know the facts!!!
May 30th, 2009 at 11:19 amYour argument might carry a little more weight if you pointed to where gumble-bee-itch said anything about dispensing with a trial, like your buddy assomalley suggested with the abused prisoners.
May 30th, 2009 at 11:20 amfwiw it is upsetting enough to try and wrap my head around this sort of thing. I have no use for trolls like merdad in here completely derailing the conversation, calling people names, and invoking her imaginary daddy figure.
May 30th, 2009 at 11:20 amfletc3her,
Nothing good can come from releasing these photos to the public. You don’t see your local news releasing photos of rape victims, or photos of rapes in progess.
If you want to use the photos in criminal proceedings that’s one thing, but with everyone saying that GITMO and Abu Ghriab have only inflamed extremists then what do you think will happen if these photos are released and they show what everyone says they show?
Also for those of you who think this can be used against Bush and Cheney. I think it would be a long shot. The Bad-Apples defense has worked once and I would think they have have to find evidence that would say Bush or Cheney ordered people to be raped. There are a lot of people in the chain of command between these alledged rapists and Bush and Cheney a lot of other people could take the fall beofre it gets to them. I don’t think this would qualify has enhanced interrogation which you could link to the memos.
May 30th, 2009 at 11:22 amWell, my morning work here is done. Nothing like a cuppa joe and a republican beatdown on a Saturday to loosen up the lithe, cat-like suppleness of my thews….
May 30th, 2009 at 11:26 amIf the positions were reversed, assomalley would be the one getting the broomstick up the ying-yang.
Ever hear of the Stanford Prison Experiment? It’s a function of human psychology to adapt to expectations in a given environment. That’s why strict guidelines and supervision are necessary in situations like a prison setting. Things that were clearly absent in Abu Ghraib.
May 30th, 2009 at 11:27 amGo enjoy your Saturday. You’ve earned it.
May 30th, 2009 at 11:28 ami wonder how much of the hiding has to do with those animals not wanting their home-townies knowing they stuck their shlongs into brown peoples’ orifices…
…
i’d almost be willing to trade universal health care insurance for the war crimes trials… if that’s what it takes…
and, i’d even give up being against the death penalty to see those criminals hanging till their bones fall through the noose…
…
i wish TP hadn’t provided a link to snuff-type porn…
May 30th, 2009 at 11:32 ami will never look…
Except that, without public outcry, NOTHING WILL BE DONE TO CORRECT OR ACKNOWLEDGE THE CRIMES COMMITTED IN OUR NAME.
We’ve already seen that happen. The Bush administration pinned the blame on the guards themselves and promoted the people who were supposed to be in charge.
The Obama administration so far seems reluctant to pursue things further, at least officially.
Without any other incentive for people in power to address the injustice, the whole thing would fade from our consciousness, but would never fade from the consciousness of those who were victimized. Seething resentment is what drives one to terrorism.
May 30th, 2009 at 11:32 am96. ralph the wonder locust Says: Go enjoy your Saturday. You’ve earned it.
Thanks; plus, I got to use “thews” in a post….
May 30th, 2009 at 11:33 amgee I hope the so called “CHURCH” and all the EVANGELICALS that elected the scumbags into office the last 8 years are happy now.
May 30th, 2009 at 11:34 amWith anti abortion off the menu for a while, they can now push for legalizing torture.
#
Bozo The Neoclown Says:
i want to hear our resident trolls Johm M,CFP, and proud mary …
bozo! you’re the one who’s “proud MORON” i and others voted for!
May 30th, 2009 at 11:36 amplease refrain from denigrating a great song by using that name…
please.
blistex11 Says:
[...]
Anyone else suspicious of Cheney’s “wheelchair stunt” at Obama’s inaugural? This guy was creating a mental picture of failing health so we would go easy on him…
or, as simple as “i’ll be damned if i’m going to stand up while a black guy is sworn in as president of MY country.”
May 30th, 2009 at 11:43 amralph,
So basically you would be willing to increase the danger to US troops and possibly the country itself in order to make a splash on the front page of the news? If this turns out of be true you don’t think there would be public outcry?
If Obama is going to move on this then he moves on this, if he doesn’t want to then he doesn’t. I don’t think the public release of these photos will sway him one way or another.
May 30th, 2009 at 11:43 amAbu Ghraib doesn’t surprise me a bit. The course leading up to this immoral national embarrassment is straightforward.
1) United States has a distorted national psyche of innate
white supremacy and an erroneous belief in the myth of
some organic American goodness and exceptionalism.
2) The events of 9/11 cause an understandable national
outrage.
3) The outrage eventually starts, for many Americans,
morphing into a general hate for those brown “ragheads”
with the “weird” religion.
4) Servicemembers’ base instincts concerning American
exceptionalism, hate for those brown people, and
propensity for raw hate and violence are tapped into
and put into overdrive by a military that, in keeping
with its function, wants to dehumanize “the enemy” and
whip the troops into a pseudo-patriotic frenzy.
5) Interference from various government agencies (e.g. CIA)
and private mercenary organizations confuse day-to-day
U.S. military operations. Confusion and frustration set
in and the military’s normally solid adherence to honor,
duty, and the UCMJ loses emphasis and oversight.
6) All these factors, combined with the predictable high-
stress environment deployed servicemembers face in times
of war leads to the disaster of Abu Ghraib.
* There are any number of other factors involved but I think this simple framework is a credible if incomplete explanation.
May 30th, 2009 at 11:50 amYou don’t think the people of Iraq know what happened in Abu Ghraib?
The danger to the troops came from the abuse itself, and the spreading word in the Iraqi community.
Our troops are in danger whenever they go into a combat situation. (That’s why so many right-wingers refused to serve before they began their careers as war cheerleaders.) That danger can be lessened if our flag and the uniform they wear is respected. Respect like that is earned. It was earned by our troops in WW2, and resulted in German soldiers surrendering rather than fighting to the death because they knew they’d be well treated.
It now has to be earned back by openly prosecuting the abuses that the Iraqis and the rest of the world already knows our troops committed. (Remember — the rest of the world sees a very different news reporting than we do here.)
May 30th, 2009 at 11:57 amThen you don’t understand the complexities of presidential politics. I am reminding of this story of Franklin Roosevelt:
FDR was, of course, a consummate political leader. In one situation, a group came to him urging specific actions in support of a cause in which they deeply believed. He replied: “I agree with you, I want to do it, now make me do it.”
He understood that a President does not rule by fiat and unilateral commands to a nation. He must build the political support that makes his decisions acceptable to our countrymen. He read the public opinion polls not to define who he was but to determine where the country was – and then to strategize how he could move the country to the objectives he thought had to be carried out.
May 30th, 2009 at 12:02 pmThese trolls sound like the Westboro Baptist nuts who came to my home state this week.
May 30th, 2009 at 12:04 pmthey have been taught that nothing matters more than how you treat others.
So true.
I unfortunately came to this realization only after my father passed away.
All his possessions, his “worth”, everything he left behind really means nothing in comparison to the legacy of his kindness and the impression he left on everyone he ever met in his life.
The only thing that’s eternal, that lives beyond our transience is how we treat each other.
NOTHING ELSE matters.
May 30th, 2009 at 12:08 pmCould we be any prouder?
May 30th, 2009 at 12:12 pmregressive mindset….Shrub..most idyllic leader, want to be his ball-washer…
May 30th, 2009 at 12:12 pmterrorists….best friends! (see Bush/Bin Laden family history in oil industry)….
So basically you would be willing to increase the danger to US troops and possibly the country itself in order to make a splash on the front page of the news?
–
May 30th, 2009 at 12:12 pmNo I don’t care so much for splasy papers. I’d rather do it to show that in fact there is a city upon a hill and to honor those service folk who understand the principles for which we stand…
Hey Chicken, we’re calling for trials of terrorists and torturers. Idiot.
May 30th, 2009 at 12:15 pmC&W simply can’t comprehend what we’re saying here — the limitations of the primitive brain are apparent.
May 30th, 2009 at 12:16 pmThis not some contest to see who is the most evil–Sadaam, detainees, or the troops.
We simply want all those who broke the law to be prosecuted.
May 30th, 2009 at 12:17 pmchicken and waffles Says:
progressive mindset….troops..automatically guilty…
terrorists….not so much….
This progressive is a veteran and there are quite a few of that post here who are veterans. While are a nutcase who cannot even make a complete coherent sentence and have the cognitive ability of a slug.
May 30th, 2009 at 12:18 pmAnd a few bad apples didn’t just ad lib these deplorable acts. This is CIA. Culpability goes up the chain of command.
http://www.tomdispatch.com/post/1795/alfred_mccoy_on_the_cia_s_road_to_abu_ghraib
May 30th, 2009 at 12:27 pmI can see where our little friend is “chicken”. But he doesn’t really seem to “waffle” much. He’s pretty much all stupid all the time.
May 30th, 2009 at 12:38 pmDoes anyone believe that twentysomething reservists just came up with all of this ritualistic torture on their own and out-of-the-blue?
May 30th, 2009 at 12:41 pmNo need to release any more of these photos publicly. And yes Cheney, Bush, Rummy, Condi, should be prosecuted for war crimes. Which can be done without any more photos. We all know what happened. Release of the photos will only cause more aggression against the US and it’s personnel.
May 30th, 2009 at 12:51 pmWithholding information is so typical of societies which wrap themselves in the freedoms they feel they need to restrict. Just release the photos and let the chips fall as they may…
May 30th, 2009 at 12:58 pmOn one hand we have photos that if released, will cause an uproar in the Muslim world and this rage could be targeted at our soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan.
On the other hand, this just shows the disturbing brutality that exists in war when the commander in chief and his vice president knowingly allow and enable such atrocities to happen.
One can argue either case but lost in all of this is the fact that the Bush administration have destroyed what the USA stands for in their thirst for blood, oil and war. The fact that the two of them will never see a court room or prison cell will turn out to be a dark moment in our country’s history. No one is above the laws of the land, no one.
PS: To President Obama, Attorney General Eric Holder, Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi. You must not turn your backs on these war crimes. There must be investigations, trials and accountability for those who allowed and committed such sick and disgraceful actions in the name of the USA.
May 30th, 2009 at 1:06 pmMerdad Says:
Hey libs, Abu Ghraib is a 4 stars Hilton hotel compare to what Saddam used to do. The Iraqi are greatness to GW Bush and US military for bringing them a long needed democracy. I say lets spread the god given rights to everyone by any means, even by removing the libs best friends “dictators.”
Wow, are you still holding on to the playground mentality, “they did it too, but even worse?”
May 30th, 2009 at 1:16 pmAgain I have to take the minority position in regards to the photos. The truth needs to come out. It does, I won’t argue that but what I will argue is for the victims. They’ve been humiliated enough without pictures of them being raped plastered everywhere. I think they should at least have a say or hopefully their faces blurred.
Seems like we were the ones acting like terrorists all along. I’m almost ashamed to look back at my uniform. I loved serving my country even if it was only for a short time but this just makes me feel so shameful.
And on a side note to hanshiro: bravo on the troll stomping!
May 30th, 2009 at 1:21 pmMerdad Says:
“Hey libs, Abu Ghraib is a 4 stars Hilton hotel compare to what Saddam used to do.”
hey stupid,
May 30th, 2009 at 1:27 pmone would think we’d strive to be better than middle eastern despots since we’re americans, no?
Turn the pictures over to a Special Prosecutor (after appointing one), and let him or her decide which ones should be released to the public before any trials begin. Once the proper people have been charged, we can release the evidence of their crimes.
May 30th, 2009 at 1:31 pmMerdad Says:
The gay loving, anti Christ, anti US, anti military libs have defended Osma Bin laden and his criminal (murders) gangs since 2001. These murders needs to be put to death after giving them a chance to confess to their crimes. We need to defeat them not meeting with them. During the campaign, then Senator Obama tried to destroy the military, calling them thugs that bombard the villages, and killed kids and pregnant woman. Hey libs, do you recall Senator Harry Reid said “this war is lost”. Water boarding is not a torture and I my humble opinion is not enough to get the information. Hey Libs, keep in mind that GW Bush prevented another attack for 7 years. These moslem killers are the one that beheaded WSJ Daniel Pearl. We conservatives, and graduate of Limbaugh Institute of democracy love this county and will defend the flag of patriotism. How about you libs? You guys are for burning the flag and hide behind 1st amendment.
***
what do you want,
egg in your beer?
:\
May 30th, 2009 at 1:33 pmDont go away mad Merdad, pathetic parody, just go away.
May 30th, 2009 at 1:49 pmHey, remember when GWB promised to capture OBL then later on said he didnt care where OBL was?
May 30th, 2009 at 1:50 pmhey merdad, your worldview is about to come crashing down around you when you realise nothing you said here yet was true and we can and are proving it.
Get a life and go read a book. You proved your IQ is in the double digits, and people like you are dangerous.
May 30th, 2009 at 1:55 pmLemme see, America was safe for eight years before GWB took office.
May 30th, 2009 at 1:56 pmwe dont need re-education when people like you have no education in the first place. its obvious.
May 30th, 2009 at 1:57 pmMerdad Says:
Wayne Ant Schneider Says:
Turn the pictures over to a Special Prosecutor (after appointing one), and let him or her decide which ones should be released to the public before any trials begin. Once the proper people have been charged, we can release the evidence of their crimes.
hey wayne- prosecute the military personnel for keep idiots like you safe for 7 years. how about prosecute Dems for lying under oath- how about investigating the dems queen nancy for lying to us….we really need to have a reeducation campaign, and send you to the campaign, and teaching you how to love this nation. we need to give every single personnel a gold watch for keeping us safe. they are keeping libs cowards safe
***
you’re upset.
“single personnel”
does not make sense.
***
relax,
take your ritalin.
:)
May 30th, 2009 at 1:57 pmActually, OBL, Tim Osman, was created under Reagan, who called the terrorists freedom fighters.
May 30th, 2009 at 1:57 pmmerdad, are you paid by bill orielly, i havent heard so many hateful lies since i turned on fox network.
May 30th, 2009 at 1:57 pmBwahaha. The pathetic Parody doesnt care where OBL is yet says we need to defeat OBL.
And just so you know, pathetic parody, the word ‘conservative’ was coined by a french guy. BWAHHAHAHA
May 30th, 2009 at 1:59 pmmerdad, dont you have a life? Or do you get paid to post the most ridiculous crap you can think of. You are hillarious, do you really think what you are saying is true!?!?! Oh wait you sound like you are from the right so you must BELIEVE it to be true.
May 30th, 2009 at 2:00 pmIt is getting pretty bad when the trolls are posting in English that a 2nd grader would be embarrassed with using.
Either that or the Uhgugh Caveman thing is the latest fad.
May 30th, 2009 at 2:01 pmGWB kept me safe? How? By reading my pet goat? By running from bunker to bunker?
Photo-ops kept me safe!
LMAO
May 30th, 2009 at 2:01 pmAww, aint that schweeet, pathetic parody wants to give his teacher, Limblob, who wouldnt serve his country because of a big bad ingrown butt hair, a gold watch for not defending his country.
Maybe you can catch up with Rush on the golf course and give him his prize there.
May 30th, 2009 at 2:05 pmhey wayne- prosecute the military personnel for keep idiots like you safe for 7 years. how about prosecute Dems for lying under oath- how about investigating the dems queen nancy for lying to us….we really need to have a reeducation campaign, and send you to the campaign, and teaching you how to love this nation. we need to give every single personnel a gold watch for keeping us safe. they are keeping libs cowards safe
Um as former “military personnel” and a liberal (calm down hun, we really do exist), I can say most of us want whoever was responsible for this to rot. They are the one’s who betrayed us and made us unsafe. A uniform does not negate that.
BTW, did you ever serve? For someone who “loves” this country and it’s military, not serving really is sorta hypocritical.
May 30th, 2009 at 2:05 pmHooda, I’m pretty sure that Merdad is a fake troll, engineered to make right-wingers look as ridiculous as possible.
To that end, I’m becoming a fan.
May 30th, 2009 at 2:07 pmMerdad has neither the balls to go to see nor the seed to parent a child. Overall Merdad is just a pretender….
May 30th, 2009 at 2:07 pmno kidding gamer, Hanshiro is like a walking encyclopedia. Just try slipping some bs past him go on, try. I wish more conservatives were like him so our debates here could be a little more “fact based” then opinion or faith based.
May 30th, 2009 at 2:07 pmIs that you Shelly Bachman?
May 30th, 2009 at 2:10 pm
Youre right, merdad must have left. Time to punch out at fox studios…
May 30th, 2009 at 2:10 pmthese things will happen with wars for profits.
the problem is not just our gov but american citizens.
we are an imperialist country a bully country
the industrial military complex and corp fascism has control of this country
fox news is just a front for this right wing neo con industrial military complex
fear fear and more fear works on americans
until americans look into a mirror and see their imperialism not much will change in america.
few americans see themselves as imperialists very few
and we call our soldiers heros for fighting in these wars for profits
shades of germany and japan years gone by
I will be called a traitor by most for these statements but who are the real traitors to their country. who indeed.
as our country self destructs due to our imperialism and greed all americans can do is blame and point fingers and not look at the system that promotes such destruction.
few will understand my words very few
May 30th, 2009 at 2:11 pmRalph, I believe you are correct. On the surface, it makes one wonder why they would choose the tactic but I suspect they might be doing it to goad responses. Fresh meat for Billo and company.
May 30th, 2009 at 2:14 pmi believe you researcher. Unfortunately, you need to find a way to reach the racists that like to say things like “go back to africa” while completely ignoring the ground under their feet probably wasn’t taken amicably.
Hey the roman empire was pretty ambitious too…
May 30th, 2009 at 2:15 pmThat Call of Duty disk soldered in your PS3, trolls, is not military service. Those who’ve actually served are the pacifists. Our military is first to fight, but fighting as an option should never come first.
Merdad and ilk, thanks for treating human rights as a joke. You are adding insult to injury. Maybe you don’t believe it will affect you and therefore you choose not to care?
May 30th, 2009 at 2:16 pmNo kidding, please enlighten us to when you served merdad and also when you stopped by abu graib. Also, let us know what rock your crawled from under so we can go flip it and let in the sunlight.
May 30th, 2009 at 2:20 pmIf President Obama does not clean up this mess by prosecuting the Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld/Rice,etal mafia, he will take ownership of these crimes. It’s as simple as that. We can NOT “move forward” until we destroy this wall we are presently facing.
May 30th, 2009 at 2:21 pmThe trolls see this as pushing the American way of life of which they’re complacent on the rest of the world. We have the highest imprisonment rate, and sexual assault and other crimes behind bars committed is a problem. They won’t address it here, what’s Iraq to them?
May 30th, 2009 at 2:23 pm….
ralph,
merdad a mole troll?
i think you’re right.
he just isn’t sincere.
:\
May 30th, 2009 at 2:30 pmMerdad Says:
Wayne Ant Schneider Says:
Turn the pictures over to a Special Prosecutor (after appointing one), and let him or her decide which ones should be released to the public before any trials begin. Once the proper people have been charged, we can release the evidence of their crimes.
hey wayne- prosecute the military personnel for keep idiots like you safe for 7 years. how about prosecute Dems for lying under oath- how about investigating the dems queen nancy for lying to us….we really need to have a reeducation campaign, and send you to the campaign, and teaching you how to love this nation. we need to give every single personnel a gold watch for keeping us safe. they are keeping libs cowards safe
May 30th, 2009 at 1:53 pm
It was an honor and a privilege to serve in the USAF for five years to defend your right to say something like this without government interference. You’re welcome.
As any veteran here could tell you, we took an oath to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic. We also swore to obey the lawful orders of those appointed over us. We are not required to obey an illegal order. Any military person who does obey an illegal order can and should be prosecuted for dereliction of duty.
Even if you do not consider the treatment given at least some of the detainees to be torture, you cannot deny that it was cruel and inhumane. The treaty we signed which banned torture also banned cruel and inhumane treatment. It also said that no matter what the situation, no matter how urgent and time-sensitive it may seem, there is never any justification to use torture. A lawful, binding treaty under the Constitution, which we took an oath to support and defend. To violate that treaty would be to violate our oaths.
And no matter what the right wing says about it, this was not just the work of “a few bad apples.” These people did this on the orders of people in the White House and the Pentagon. The people who gave the orders to have this done belong in prison, no matter what political offices they may have held. They are War Criminals. And if we do not prosecute them for their crimes, then we are no better than the enemy we are trying to defeat. If you do not understand that, then you are not living in the same time-space reality as the rest of us.
BTW, trying to blame the Democrats as being “complicit” is to flat out admit that there were War Crimes committed by the Bush Administration, which is something your side denied ever happened when it was first disclosed. There is not a single argument that the right wing has made in defense of “enhanced interrogation techniques” (some of which constitute torture) that withstands close scrutiny. And they have repeatedly lied about its use, its effectiveness when they finally admitted it was being used, the lives it saved when they finally admitted they were doing it but only to a few people, and the high value information that they already knew before they started using the techniques they first denied they were using before they even figured out how to authorize it at all.
The right wing has not told the truth about ANY of this. How can you possibly conclude that they are right and we are wrong?
May 30th, 2009 at 2:45 pmBrilliant response Wayne. These chickenhawks crack me up to no end.
May 30th, 2009 at 3:07 pmWayne, I think your last line would be more accurate and effective as ‘How can you say they are right and the laws of America are wrong?’
They still don’t get the idea that it isn’t about us versus them, that it is about our country, our laws and our self respect.
May 30th, 2009 at 3:16 pmresearcher Says: as our country self destructs due to our imperialism and greed all americans can do is blame and point fingers and not look at the system that promotes such destruction.
few will understand my words very few
We do understand…unfortunately we are citizens around the world and NOT US citizens.
Don’t think we are not looking…we see there are 190 countries and the US has military bases in 130 of them. The reason???? protect american interest. Really???? How about letting other nations put military bases on your soil under the assumption we are protecting our interest?????
Here is a little secret….the US is in Afganistan not for terrorists but to secure a pipe line from the Caspiean Sea across Afgan. That’s the American interest!!! How many of you know that a Texas oil company had the Taliban in Dallas in 1999-2000 trying to secure a deal for the pipleline. Once the oil company got tired of the requirements placed by the Taliban, poof….9/11. You see, the Taliban has been trained,supported and given operations by the CIA!!!!
So America, go live your life in a bubble while the pigs that run your nation suck you dry of your wealth, freedom and piece of mind.
Isn’t funny how aggression came into play ever since Raggen was elected. You don’t think the neo con arn’t the devils???? Think again America, think Again!!!!
May 30th, 2009 at 3:17 pmNot so awful long ago there was a country that claimed they had all the answers, that they had some sort of divine right to do whatever they felt was right. They had no problem with invading other countries on trumped up reasoning. They felt they had the right to do anything they damn well pleased to other people because they were evil or inferior.
They also had military bases scattered around the world. They had a propaganda machine that fed lies to their population, using fear as a tool to convince a country in a depression that the only way out was to reclaim their God given heritage. They used emotionally laden falsehoods to convince their population that others were spawn of the devil, inhuman beasts fit only to be exterminated.
They too claimed the moral high ground for themselves and used patriotism as a tool. Convinced people that whatever they did was justified in the name of their nation.
They were proved wrong on all counts.
May 30th, 2009 at 3:36 pmThe pictures don’t need to be released for the anger to percolate through the Muslim world. Does anybody who is not a stupid troll believe that word of mouth hasn’t spread these atrocities throughout the communities involved? It happened and the only way to squelch the anger against us they will create is to prosecute those that ordered the torture. If we have to start with the little guys to find out who told them what to do than so be it. The future of this country is more important than any one politician or any one soldier. For this country to remain great it needs to act great. Republicans would rather just walk around saying we’re great rather than do anything to make it so. The Roman Empire collapsed and we can to without taking steps to correct our mistakes.
May 30th, 2009 at 3:49 pmRight on, Doodlebug Shayne.
May 30th, 2009 at 4:02 pmwe’re all involved in this in a way. anyone who punches a time clock or pays taxes to the empire is paying to support these institutions. changing from repubs to dems is better, but the C.I.A., military industrial complex, etc. is still going to be killing, stealing and destroying. This is a goldmine for them, they want and need more terrorists. More weapons, more war = more MONEY. selling weapons and war-mongering isn’t going to go away even if jesus christ was elected president. Honestly, we’re too far gone, the people behind the curtains aren’t going to give up the power. I respect where everyone is at at this moment but when the times and space comes to make a major shift away from the current monetary system which fuels the destruction of the world i hope we can choose the path which leads to peace and equality.
May 30th, 2009 at 4:10 pmMerdad says GWB kept us safe for the last seven years. That’s hysterical. After allowing the worst attack on civilians ever in this country he decided to violate our laws, morals and ethics in the name of keeping us safe. He had to destroy the country to save the country?
May 30th, 2009 at 4:27 pmThe American people in 2009 are outraged by the thought that the USA DOES TORTURE…
May 30th, 2009 at 4:27 pmI’m from south America and I can tell you that the USA HAS BEEN TORTURING PEOPLE EVERYWHERE IT HAS INTERVENE AROUND THE GLOBE, AND HAS BEEN SUPPORTING/FINANCING BRUTAL DICTATORSHIPS for decades now.
USA=TORTURE is not a new thing!
One has to ask why Mr. two faced ‘Babaca’ Obama has requested that the Bagram prison in Afghanistan is Off the limits of the justice system. Any justice system! That is Obama, THE NEW AMERICAN WAR PRESIDENT.
And more: War Crimes have already been committed under his watch in Pakistan and Afghanistan.
Seymour Hersh
has been out there talking about torture being as serious as child rape.
Kids sodomized at Abu Ghraib, Pentagon has the videos – Hersh
A recent article found on the net:
Media ignores Torture Photos showing Prison Guards Raping Children
Quite frankly, nothing …. absolutely nothing would surprise me coming from the previous administration.
May 30th, 2009 at 4:52 pmMerdad, you are a torture apologist…That is not a term of honor as you wingnuts would love to suggest.
May 30th, 2009 at 5:08 pmwAYNE, Merdad doesn’t need the truth…He only needs the wind blowing out of Rush’s mouth…
May 30th, 2009 at 5:09 pmCoaward? What do you mean? I was making you look like a fool from the get go. I run circles around your lame parody ass. Beginner….
May 30th, 2009 at 5:10 pmOops. I messed up. I was making Merdad look like a clown elsewehere. Please disregard. Damn Merdad is weak. What is the story with that lame parody?
May 30th, 2009 at 5:13 pm______
Bozo The Neoclown Says:
let’s see the good, god fearing, “christian” trolls defend this kind of behavior.
May 30th, 2009 at 9:31 am
______
Most good, God fearing Christians find this kind of thing deplorable, but still don’t want everyone in the military to be smeared for the actions of a few. Nor do we want those in the military exposed to unnecessary risk just to satisfy those for whom a description of the vile acts is insufficient. Unless it’s impossible to use the photos for prosecutions without making them public, there is no need to release them publicly.
May 30th, 2009 at 5:14 pmDoodlebug Shayne Says:
The pictures don’t need to be released for the anger to percolate through the Muslim world. Does anybody who is not a stupid troll believe that word of mouth hasn’t spread these atrocities throughout the communities involved?
Actually, the pictures are all over the Internet. For all I know, they’re being aired on Al-Jazeera as it is. “Releasing” the pictures would just amount to confirming their authenticity, as well as demonstrating that we’re taking responsibility for those acts and are prepared to do something about it. Without “releasing” them, everybody still knows what happened, how horrible it is, and what it looks like. All we’re doing is refusing to take the situation seriously.
.
sacopenapa Says:
I’m from south America and I can tell you that the USA HAS BEEN TORTURING PEOPLE EVERYWHERE IT HAS INTERVENE AROUND THE GLOBE
Well yeah, especially in El Salvador and Nicaragua etc. But technically we were just supporting another regime and teaching them how to do it. Iran under the Shah, also. Nevertheless, such technicalities don’t hold up at all once the public actually realizes the degree of atrocity involved. I hope that in the fallout for the current crimes being exposed, those cases can get at their share of justice as well.
May 30th, 2009 at 5:31 pmThat’s right upright left, keep making excuses to protect your party. It isn’t the pictures that put our military at risk … IT IS THE ACTS PERPETRATED THAT DO SO. Republicans have been fomenting trouble across the globe creating battles to fight as an excuse to steal money for the industrial/military complex controlled by their cronies. Nobody has stopped them yet. As the woman who shot at Ford said she was hoping to start the revolution. Well she failed just as our politicians failed to hold Nixon responsible for his crimes and Reagan/Bush responsible for Iran/Contra and all the other crimes they perpetrated.
All these illegalities going back to the assassination of JFK and GHW Bush’s involvement need to be investigated and exposed to the people so that even the idiot trolls who watch Fox News eventually can’t help but notice what has been done.
If President Obama doesn’t want to help expose these crimes, then he can be replaced too. Enough is enough.
May 30th, 2009 at 5:33 pmTorture apologists like Merdad should have their citizenship taken away. They should not be allowed to call themselves Americans. They should go somewhere like North Korea where they can live in the kind of regime they’re comfortable with.
May 30th, 2009 at 5:38 pmNo Merdad YOU DON’T BELONG HERE. America doesn’t torture. The country you want to live in is the one Republicans want. Fortunately you’re only about 22% of the people. You and the rest of the traitor who think like you would make this country better if you’d LEAVE. GET THE HELL OUT!!!!
May 30th, 2009 at 5:40 pmI’ll stomp you like a grape you worthless little turd. Obviously English is not your first language so SHUT THE HELL UP AND GET THE HELL OUT YOU FASCIST TORTURE MONKEY!!!
May 30th, 2009 at 5:42 pmSo Merded come on now. When did you serve? You’re so critical of liberals and refuse to admit that we proudly served. What’s wrong?
May 30th, 2009 at 5:43 pmGenerally I’m against torture but if somebody wants to have a go at Merdad I’ll pretend to not notice just like he ignores the PHOTOGRAPHS.
May 30th, 2009 at 5:44 pmkdgamergirl, puhlease. It’s all Merdad can do to wipe his own ass. Served? He does us all a favor by never leaving his basement.
May 30th, 2009 at 5:45 pmkdgamergirl, puhlease. It’s all Merdad can do to wipe his own ass. Served? He does us all a favor by never leaving his basement.
Let’s just hope someone locked him down there.
May 30th, 2009 at 5:46 pmNo need. Obviously Merdad is too stupid to figure out the intricacies of doorknobs. Notice how he believes that Fox News is where you go to get the facts.
May 30th, 2009 at 5:48 pmThese are the proud “intellects” spewed from the abject ignorance perpetuated by Fox “News”.
I had no idea how fcuking degenerate the average American had become.
May 30th, 2009 at 5:54 pmDNFP Says:
These are the proud “intellects” spewed from the abject ignorance perpetuated by Fox “News”.
I had no idea how fcuking degenerate the average American had become.
It’s true! And it seems like they’re getting more ignorant and misguided every day.
I saw a bit of a program recently about ‘connections’ – people are studying them as a science now – and it makes you wonder…hmmm, faux news, ignorance, connection? You decide.
May 30th, 2009 at 5:59 pmWhy address them directly?
You certainly wouldn’t pause to talk to a pile of shit.
Better to avoid, and talk a r o u n d, as you walk around the offending feces.
May 30th, 2009 at 5:59 pmDNFP Says:
Why address them directly?
You certainly wouldn’t pause to talk to a pile of shit.
Better to avoid, and talk a r o u n d, as you walk around the offending feces.
Especially when the pile of shit looks like it could explode at any time!
May 30th, 2009 at 6:02 pmYou’d think braindead Limbot-ballsuckers would praise the rape and sexual assault charges, even beg for more.
In reality, they all have hard-on’s for Jack Bauer.
May 30th, 2009 at 6:06 pmIs Merdad still doing his caveman imitation?
May 30th, 2009 at 6:16 pmI will hate myself for this later but…Merdad, if your god thinks killing babies is bad, why does he think killing adults is good?
May 30th, 2009 at 6:19 pmupright left Says:
Most good, God fearing Christians find this kind of thing deplorable, but still don’t want everyone in the military to be smeared for the actions of a few. Nor do we want those in the military exposed to unnecessary risk just to satisfy those for whom a description of the vile acts is insufficient. Unless it’s impossible to use the photos for prosecutions without making them public, there is no need to release them publicly.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
I dont know anyone who IS smearing the entire military because of this. However they SHOULD be released. Do you think the Iraqis dont KNOW these things happened? This dirty little secret is being kept ONLY from the American public. We didnt kill these people. What happened to them is KNOWN in Iraq. The rightwing is STILL saying there was no torture or real abuse at Abu Ghraib so the American people NEED to know the truth. I also think it would ENHANCE our standing among the world when we show we take this seriously and people are going to be punished that we are facing UP to it. When you plead guilty to a crime in court you allocute. You admit your wrongdoing and FACE IT. The American people are still in the he said she said of the right denying these things. The pictures should be released. We should then appologize profusely for it happening punish ALL THOSE involved in ANY way. THAT will show we are serious about NOT doing things like this AGAIN.
May 30th, 2009 at 6:19 pmMerdad you are just an ignorant punkass troll and the supidest piece of filth I have seen in some time. Isnt it time for your trailer trash whore of a mother to take a break from blowing lepers at the docks? Go ask her who your daddy is. She wont know of course it will be whoever gave her the shortdog that night but it seems pretty clear that you are an inbred moron so there is a good chance your daddy is your uncle
May 30th, 2009 at 6:22 pmaceomalley7
What a cowardly PUNK you are. I think YOU are a scumbag that deserves to be raped and sodomized with a baseball bat. You are clearly a stupid piece of dogshite. Pondscum is a higher lifeform compared to your MONUMENTAL stupidity. MOST of those at Abu Ghraib were just picked up in sweeps and we had no evidence they did anything wrong but you are a coward and you dont care. You are a husk of a subhuman moron. Do the world a favor go snivel under your mommys bed and just STFU
May 30th, 2009 at 6:27 pmCP
Yes but they have already been inflamed. The Iraqis already KNOW they were tortured. This secret is being kept ONLY from the American public. The rightwing is STILL lying about what happened. They should be released so that argument can END.
May 30th, 2009 at 6:29 pmDNFP Says:
I had no idea how fcuking degenerate the average American had become.
Oh, these beauties are well below the average.
This is what comes of having a strategy that relies on stoking the emotions of extremely stupid people – at this point, the extremely stupid people pretty much control the GOP – “can’t risk upsetting the base” and all that.
May 30th, 2009 at 6:41 pmThe thought of someone as stupid as Merdad being in charge of a popstand it frightening
May 30th, 2009 at 6:46 pmMerdad is a coward, can not back up posts and flees when questioned. His/her posts are nothing but worthless worn out talking points obtained by obsessive note taking while listening to his dirt bag talk show hosts.
May 30th, 2009 at 7:08 pmMerdad… I am still wait6ing for am answer to post #83:
And when Bush began the ILLEGAL invasion of Iraq and with such enthusiasm, it started with Shock and Awe… 4000 bombs dropped on Baghdaa in a two day period for all to see on TV… BUSH KNOWING FULL WELL IT WAS OVER A LIE.
To make matters worse, Bush in public make jokes of not finding WMD.
The Bush administration is responsible for the biggest mass murder, theft to America and screw job to America in history.
May 30th, 2009 at 7:47 pmMerdad Says:
… because i love this nation
No, you don’t. You really really don’t. You “love” this nation in the way an abuser “loves” his victim. The way you treat your nation isn’t “love” by any stretch of the most twisted imagination.
May 30th, 2009 at 7:47 pmXisithrus Says:
Lemme see, America was safe for eight years before GWB took office.
Closer to 60 years.
May 30th, 2009 at 8:01 pmOur mock-troll is so stupid it doesn’t even realize that “upright left” is on the side he pretends to be on.
May 30th, 2009 at 9:00 pmIt doesn’t even realize that “chicken and waffles” is a comrade.
What a maroon.
May 30th, 2009 at 9:01 pmMerda in portuguese means ‘Sh*#t’…
May 30th, 2009 at 9:02 pmThe troll calling itself merdad is not real. It only comes here to spew hatred and ignorance of American ideals, and to rile up anyone that bites the bait. We need to treat it like an unruly child – ignore it – it only seeks attention.
May 30th, 2009 at 9:12 pmWater boarding is not a torture and I my humble opinion is not enough to get the information.
MONCOW!!!!!
May 30th, 2009 at 9:36 pmMANCOW Merdad the moron. Shove that up your crack pipe and smoke it biatch!
May 30th, 2009 at 9:37 pmMerdad, you see, there are no Progressives or True Conservatives left in the three branches of government anymore. Some of the so-called “progressives” on this site are as foul-mouthed and block-headed as any so-called conservative. There is a strange defense by the pseudo-progressives of Obama’s giving money to Wall Street and Banks, Increased surveillance, shutting down of criticism of his stimulus plan, more wars, and of course, torture blindness.
Naturally, pseudo-conservatives were cheering with Bush intervening in other countries, and increasing the size of the government, as well as the same un-Constitutional practices Obama is running with.
I have been saying this for over two years now. Obama works for the same people that Bush did, and it is NOT the American people, but Corporations.
Obama is Bush with a new paint job as far as I am concerned.
May 30th, 2009 at 10:04 pmBush/Cheney and the rest of his administration didnt give a flying fck about the rule of law. Why should they recieve a fair trial? Lets put these criminals in Abu Ghraib and force them to shove banana`s up their a$$es.
May 30th, 2009 at 11:01 pmMerdeMoron you cowardly ignorant piece of filth why havent you killed yourself yet. You are so stupid and pathetic you have nothing to offer the world or mankind. You are ignorant. You are a punk you come here only to vomit on the screen incoherently. You arent even specisl in your staggering stupidity. Just go somewhere private and do the right thing. If I were one TENTH as stupid as you I would have killed myself from sheer shame long ago
May 30th, 2009 at 11:10 pmMerdad, What is your argument? If you were to actually look at facts then you would see the truth. Conservatives make sht up as they go along. You 20%ers listen to the likes of limpdick,orielly,and hannity. If you would open your closed mind for a little while then maybe you would be able to see the truth. Keith olbermann and rachel maddow always have video or audio to back up their accusations of the lies that these clowns spew to their stupid ass listeners. You cons never bring proof of your bullsht lies to the argument. Now STFU and get out of the way of progress.
May 30th, 2009 at 11:15 pmFor the first 175 years you had to wait for what history would tell you. The next 125 years is what we call cover up. The average life of a Democracy is about 300 years. Start counting to Americans surrender to secrets/fear.
May 30th, 2009 at 11:29 pm______
Merdad Says:
upright left- i am sure you are the product of public school- you are the best example of why we conservatives are for school choices. you are the epidemic of what a loser is.
May 30th, 2009 at 5:23 pm
______
I attended some excellent public and private schools. Apparently, you weren’t quite so fortunate. ;)
May 30th, 2009 at 11:38 pm______
Doodlebug Shayne Says:
That’s right upright left, keep making excuses to protect your party. It isn’t the pictures that put our military at risk … IT IS THE ACTS PERPETRATED THAT DO SO. Republicans have been fomenting trouble across the globe creating battles to fight as an excuse to steal money for the industrial/military complex controlled by their cronies. Nobody has stopped them yet. As the woman who shot at Ford said she was hoping to start the revolution. Well she failed just as our politicians failed to hold Nixon responsible for his crimes and Reagan/Bush responsible for Iran/Contra and all the other crimes they perpetrated.
All these illegalities going back to the assassination of JFK and GHW Bush’s involvement need to be investigated and exposed to the people so that even the idiot trolls who watch Fox News eventually can’t help but notice what has been done.
If President Obama doesn’t want to help expose these crimes, then he can be replaced too. Enough is enough.
May 30th, 2009 at 5:33 pm
______
Sorry doodlebug, but unlike you, I don’t have a party to protect. The revelation that the acts occurred did put those in the military at increased risk. Releasing more photos will only serve to inflame that anger again.
I’ve wondered at the motives of those who’ve been most insistent that the photos need to be made public. Prosecutions I understand and agree with, but that doesn’t seem to require that the photos be seen outside of a courtroom. Restitution to victims or their families is definitely in order, but, again, doesn’t require publication of the photos. Leave it to doodlebug to be honest about the motive. It’s not the victims or concern about the reputation of the U.S or any of the other false excuses. It’s all about politics for you. It’s a chance to slam the other party, as though either party is anything to brag about. But, hey, the honesty has to count for something. ;)
May 31st, 2009 at 12:04 amI welcome these rants by teabagger troll. Your words are hollow, shadow and hypocritical. So let the show begin:
Merdad Says:
chicken and waffles and rest of libs
repugs are true chickenhawks, your druggie leader go off on a butt pimple when in fact many people enlist with the same affliction. Waffles, I love them especially with lots of butter and with real maple syrup. So yummy. Together it’s the bomb.
Liberal/progressives/dems won the election by a landslide. It it’s wonderful and historic. you racist.
The rest of your teabag talking points are ridiculous, riddled with lies, delusional (seek help, no kidding), terribly wrong (lacking simple facts), and deadly dangerous.
I want you to remain stupid and voice your opinions loud. As long as your type does this you will remain the joke of the world. Your type will pay, believe it.
The dems will remain in office until you and the rest teabaggers get a brain and join realitiy.
VOICE YOUR DUMBNESS LOUD AND CLEAR. Idiot.
You got that troll?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
May 31st, 2009 at 1:23 amMerdad Syays:
not the judges make policy as the obama’s nominee suggested.
This shows that you don’t have all the facts, and I’m sure that neither Rush nor Hannity nor O’Reilly ever mentioned that Justice Scalia said the exact same thing as Judge Sotomayor. And if you understood anything about how the law works, you would know that they are both correct.
You really should stop commenting on this subject. You are way too ill-informed to participate. And you know nothing about liberals.
May 31st, 2009 at 2:08 amSo, Merdad, you are quoting Al Jazeera as a credible source of information? I just want to know what you think of their credibility.
BTW, just because Bush thinks it was legal, and just because Cheney lies and claims it saved lives, that does not mean it was legal to do those things. Why can you not understand that?
And even if waterboarding wasn’t “torture” (it is, as anyone who has undergone it could confirm), it was still cruel, inhuman and degrading, so it was still illegal!.
May 31st, 2009 at 12:18 pmYOUNG IRAQI BOYS WERE SODOMIZED BY AMERICAN INTERROGATORS IN ABU GHRAIB WHILE BEING VIDEOTAPED. THE TAPES WERE VIEWD BY BILL FRIST, JOHN WARNER AND CHRIS SHAYS.
DEMAND THE TRUTH!!!!!
May 31st, 2009 at 3:25 pmRules and regulations and a sense of decency come from the top down. You put prisoners and their guards in a lawless community and you should not be surprised at the depths to which they can sink. There is no one evidently who cared to ride herd on the guards and civilian contractors. And it takes a very strong sense of right and wrong to go against what others are doing.
It seems as though the personal conscience of these men a women were nearly non existent. Now they and we will have to live with the stain. I wonder how changed our men and women will be by what they have done, or failed to do? How will effect their own lives and their own vision of themselves?
June 1st, 2009 at 1:32 amThank You
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