Operation Rescue Tries To Distance Itself From Roeder’s Activities On Behalf Of The Group
Operation Rescue Tries To Distance Itself From Roeder’s Activities On Behalf Of The Group
Yesterday, 51-year-old man named Scott Roeder gunned down George Tiller, a Kansas doctor who administered abortions, as he stood in the foyer of his church. As PFAW noted, Tiller had “long been the most prominent target of anti-abortion activists in this country due to the fact that he was one of the few physicians in the country willing to perform ‘late-term’ abortions.”
Shortly after news broke of the killing, Troy Newman, President of the anti-choice group Operation Rescue, issued a statement condemning Roeder’s actions: “We denounce vigilantism and the cowardly act that took place this morning. We pray for Mr. Tiller’s family that they will find comfort and healing that can only be found in Jesus Christ.”
However, veteran anti-abortion activist Randall Terry — who founded Operation Rescue — issued a statement calling Tiller a “mass murderer,” adding that he was an “evil man” whose “hands were covered with blood.” “We must continue to expose them in our communities and peacefully protest them at their offices and homes, and yes, even their churches,” he said.
Operation Rescue’s protests were often far from peaceful. Tiller had to be protected by federal marshals and his clinic was fortified by bulletproof glass and security guards. Operation Rescue’s 1991 protests drew “thousands of anti-abortion activists to this city for demonstrations marked by civil disobedience and mass arrests.”
Roeder, in fact, had been an active member of the Operation Rescue community and used the group as a platform for his vigilantism. (Authorities found a Post-It note with the group’s phone number in his car after the shooting.) This morning, Operation Rescue President Troy Newman issued a new statement, trying to distance his group even further from Roeder’s actions:
Scott Roeder has never been a member, contributor, or volunteer with Operation Rescue. Mr. Roeder may have posted to our open blog web site, as have thousands of members of the public, including those with pro-abortion views, but he is not affiliated with this organization. [...]
In spite of these horrific events, we remain dedicated to working through all peaceful and legal means available to bring an end to the killing of innocent children through abortion.
In May 2007, Operation Rescue organized a “77-hour round the clock prayer vigil” in Wichita, KS, Tiller’s hometown. “Let’s keep the pressure on George Tiller and the authorities until they are willing to bring him to justice!” read the announcement for the event. On May 19, Roeder commented on the thread, chillingly urging Operation Rescue members to take the fight inside Tiller’s church:
Bleass [sic] everyone for attending and praying in May to bring justice to Tiller and the closing of his death camp. Sometime soon, would it be feasible to organize as many people as possible to attend Tillers church (inside, not just outside) to have much more of a presence and possibly ask questions of the Pastor, Deacons, Elders and members while there? Doesn’t seem like it would hurt anything but bring more attention to Tiller.
Hunter at DailyKos also caught a “Scott Roeder” commenting on another Operation Rescue site, Charge Tiller, which has since been taken down. On Sept. 3, 2007, Roeder stepped up the violence in his rhetoric, writing:
It seems as though what is happening in Kansas could be compared to the “lawlessness” which is spoken of in the Bible. Tiller is the concentration camp “Mengele” of our day and needs to be stopped before he and those who protect him bring judgement [sic] upon our nation.
As Mike Hendricks of the Kansas-City Star wrote yesterday, Operation Rescue couldn’t have been “shocked” by Tiller’s death. After all, it was that group that coined the name “Tiller the Killer” and “spent decades fomenting hate toward a man who simply believed that he was serving a purpose by being one of the few doctors in the country performing late-term abortions.” “His accomplices know they have blood on their hands, which might explain why they were quick to issue statements…expressing disapproval of Tiller’s murder,” added Hendricks.
- - Here's the most shocking quote on this that I've seen: "Late-term abortion doctor George Tiller was gunned down at his church in Kansas Sunday morning in a thoroughly evil, cold-blooded act of domestic terrorism. Yes, terrorism. Not 'extremism,'" - Michelle Malkin.
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GOP, Taliban, Al Qeada, and these fundamentalist whackos.
“Killin’ in the name of”
June 1st, 2009 at 10:39 amOperation Rescue Distances Itself From Roeder’s Activities On Behalf Of The Group
– - Here’s the most shocking quote on this that I’ve seen:
“Late-term abortion doctor George Tiller was gunned down at his church in Kansas Sunday morning in a thoroughly evil, cold-blooded act of domestic terrorism. Yes, terrorism. Not ‘extremism,’” - Michelle Malkin.
June 1st, 2009 at 10:42 amthese conservative christian fundies are every bit as much terrorists are atta and bin laden.
June 1st, 2009 at 10:42 amTerrorism by any other name is still terrorism.
June 1st, 2009 at 10:43 amIt sounds like TP is stretching way too far to connect this murderer with Operation Rescue.
I’m not saying that Operation Rescue does not bear some responsibility for the crime, as does anyone who ratcheted up the violet rhetoric aimed at Dr. Tiller.
But if Roeder was never a member or volunteer for the group, if his only connection was posting on blogs, that makes him no more connected to Operation Rescue than C4P, Merdad or aceomalley7 is connected to TP.
June 1st, 2009 at 10:44 amI think that we should waterboard the leadership of Operation Rescue to find any other potential threats to Americans…
No, actually I don’t… but its the same justification isn’t it, right wingers?
June 1st, 2009 at 10:44 amsend, help, whatever way you can:
http://www.naral.org/ or http://www.prochoiceamerica.org/
or http://www.plannedparenthood.org/
thank you.
i did.
June 1st, 2009 at 10:47 am“… comfort and healing that can only be found in Jesus Christ.”
a LOT of people will surely disagree…
that kind of statement is mightily self-righteous and sanctimonious…
imagine that.
June 1st, 2009 at 10:50 amholy rollers suck
terrorism is just a symptom of the mental disease of religious belief
cure the disease and the symptom goes away
June 1st, 2009 at 10:52 amAnother fundie terrorist. Darlyy, does that describe you too>?
June 1st, 2009 at 10:52 amralph the wonder locust Says:
It sounds like TP is stretching way too far to connect this murderer with Operation Rescue.
============================================================
He was a religious whacko, member or not. The organization has been responsible in the past. Let’s review. Abortion is legal and has been thirty years. The fundamentalist whackos, just like the taliban, disagree, and terrorize and murder. End of story.
June 1st, 2009 at 10:52 amOperation Rescue is a terrorist organization, and it’s leadership should be sent to Gitmo just like any other terrorists!
June 1st, 2009 at 10:54 amWhat if this were an Islamist organization and this guy had bombed a government building? Would we let them distance themselves so easily? Somehow I think not.
June 1st, 2009 at 10:55 amHow is Randall Terry any different from Osama bin Laden…?
They’re BOTH terrorists.
June 1st, 2009 at 10:59 amGUILTY! Terrorist group Operation Rescue needs to be dismantled and shut down! They are stirring up the violent fringe element with their self-righteous crusade!
June 1st, 2009 at 11:00 amreligion enforces its societal rules using fear of eternal torture by fire
that makes religion, by definition, terrorism
June 1st, 2009 at 11:01 amRalph: regarding Roeder’s membership in OR – who says that Neumann is actually telling the truth…?
I’m taking Neumann’s denials with a very large grain of salt.
June 1st, 2009 at 11:02 amkasinca, you must have missed where I made clear the Operation Rescue bears some responsibility for the violence as an outgrowth of their violent rhetoric.
But it appears from what we know at this point, that the murderer acted on his own and had no formal connection to the group. He simply commented on their blogs. That’s not a real connection.
June 1st, 2009 at 11:02 amit’s more real than the supposed connection between Iraq and Al Queada
June 1st, 2009 at 11:04 amFine, Annie. But all you have to demonstrate this connection is your suspicion, and two blog comments.
That’s not “activities on behalf of the group” in my book. That’s all I’m saying.
June 1st, 2009 at 11:05 amlots of links here:
Mike’s Blog Roundup
By Mike Finnigan Monday Jun 01, 2009 8:00am
In this small world, Dr. George Tiller’s long-time lawyer, Dan Monnat, has been one of my closest friends for over 40 years. Tiller’s murder was American Taliban terrorism, period. We already know the identities of the killer’s accomplices, and it isn’t only media wingmutts and Christianist frauds that encourage violence. Our own David Neiwert has been writing about these “Eliminationists” for years. Time to stand up to cowards and extremists
http://crooksandliars.com/mike-finnigan/mikes-blog-roundup-214
June 1st, 2009 at 11:08 amTerry, Operation Rescue, O’Reilly– all accomplices to this; for years they have, through their speeches, media appearances, choice of terms, promoted hatred & violence towards Tiller (and others). Roeder is precisely the type of radical right-wing extremist that the recent report referred to when describing home-grown terrorists.
June 1st, 2009 at 11:09 amIt’s just kind of weird that TP would run this article on Friday:
O’Reilly Defends Cherry-Picking Comments to Attack Blogs
and then runs a story on Monday doing essentially the same thing.
Are blog comments the responsibility of the blog or not?
Do they constitute some sort of material relationship, as TP seems to suggest in this story?
Look, I just know some troll is gonna notice this, and is gonna make the same point I’m making, and I’ll have to agree with him. And I hate agreeing with trolls.
June 1st, 2009 at 11:10 amI’m not claiming he was working at the direction of OR, but the blogs Oreilly is whining about aren’t calling for the murders of right wing bloviators.
June 1st, 2009 at 11:13 amThe American Taliban at it again.
June 1st, 2009 at 11:19 amI agree that without a clear connection to this specific group it is a bit of a stretch to, well, connect the two.
However, it is clear that the rhetoric and networking for support provided by this group contributed to his mindset and, arguably, to his determination. This would apply to any other such group that he was aware of, as well. It is less than tenuous in relating the group to the specific crime, but it is not certain that he would have went out and committed murder without having his “hate support group” there. In this regard, it would be necessary to see how the other posters on that blog responded to him, specifically and in general. Were he derided and shunned (as much as is possible on a blog), then the community could say that they discouraged him, etc… However, if he was met with acceptance and encouragement, then the blame is much heavier.
The group is not liable for the murder itself, unless it was actively encouraged, his membership status nonwithstanding. But the group is or can be VERY responsible for providing an environment that encouraged his hate, and supported his violent rhetoric without condemnation.
One who does not participate in a riot, but was the voice that inflammed and encouraged the crowd, is guilty of inciting the riot. They are certainly not indemnified by this murderer’s lack of membership, if he took cues or encouragement from them.
Just my 2 pennies.
June 1st, 2009 at 11:20 amC’mon, Tommy… I’m not claiming any moral equivalency. I’m claiming logical equivalency. If O’Reilly is wrong to attack blogs based on the comments they allow (and I think we agree that he is) then TP is similarly wrong to assert “activities on behalf of the group” for the same thing.
June 1st, 2009 at 11:20 amWe pray for Mr. Tiller’s family that they will find comfort and healing that can only be found in Jesus Christ.”
No wonder the world is so fcuked up, with so few having comfort and healing available to them.
June 1st, 2009 at 11:21 am“Roeder, in fact, had been an active member of the Operation Rescue community and used the group as a platform for his vigilantism. (Authorities found a Post-It note with the group’s phone number in his car after the shooting.)”
Ralph, I agree with you.
TP: other than the post-it note, where’s the proof that “Roeder, IN FACT, had been an active member of the Operation Rescue community…”?
June 1st, 2009 at 11:22 amAgreed, Cagey.
For me, this is more about demanding a higher standard of conduct from TP.
June 1st, 2009 at 11:22 amI wonder what Malkin means when she writes, “Yes, terrorism. Not ‘extremism,’”. She seems to be saying that this is a case of terrisim by someone whose views are not extremist. I’m afraid I can’t concede that point. It takes a pretty extreme mindset to kill. This is both terrorism and extremism.
It is also a hate crime – perhaps the sort that the right wing is most afraid of criminalizing.
June 1st, 2009 at 11:22 amIf the blogs were guilty of the same sort of violent, fantasy-based rhetoric as OR, I would agree.
I still think OR and Oreilly bear some responsibility for the acts of those they inspire with their Talibanesque rhetoric
June 1st, 2009 at 11:23 amralph, I do agree that the headline is needlessly sensationalistic
June 1st, 2009 at 11:23 amThe DHS Report on right-wing extremism was spot-on. Did federal authorities back off surveillance of Anti-Abortion groups as a result of the Right’s hissy fit about the report? It seems Scott Roeder’s dangerous views were public knowledge. Was he on a watch list?
June 1st, 2009 at 11:24 amHowever, veteran anti-abortion activist Randall Terry — who founded Operation Rescue — issued a statement calling Tiller a “mass murderer,” adding that he was an “evil man” whose “hands were covered with blood.”
Dr. Tiller is not a “mass murderer,” “evil,” nor are his “hands covered in blood” according to the law of the land.
June 1st, 2009 at 11:24 amHmm… Does this make “Operation Rescue” a domestic terrorist organization?
Let’s freeze their bank accounts and put them on the no-fly list.
June 1st, 2009 at 11:25 amOf course all those groups that are against pro-choice are running and hiding. But it is those groups that paid for all the incendiary hate speech…and now they want a “get out of jail free” card when their demands were fulfilled.
Malkin calls it terrorism – shocking…BUT TRUE.
Why is it that all the radical pundits call for tyranny, but when it comes to fruition…they run and hide? The word Hypocrite is the word that best describes their behavior.
June 1st, 2009 at 11:26 amThey have ALWAYS been a terrorist organization – they use fear as a political weapon, just like Republicans
June 1st, 2009 at 11:26 amralph the wonder locust Says:
Do they constitute some sort of material relationship, as TP seems to suggest in this story?
June 1st, 2009 at 11:10 am
______________
I don’t think this story is suggesting a material relationship. It says that he posted on their blogs a few times and that the group is issuing statements denying any formal relationship. The story does not imply that there is any deeper connection than this.
The only implication I see is that the terrorist certainly found plenty of inspiration from the hateful messages being put out by Operation Rescue. I have to wonder how many commenters on their blogs denounced the use of violence against doctors like Tiller.
June 1st, 2009 at 11:27 amIt is but a fine line and a bridge so easy to cross from extremism to terrorism so Malkin does not get off the hook by saying these two are not bedfellows when they are joined at the hip.
June 1st, 2009 at 11:29 amRalph:
I’m not disagreeing with the intent of your comment at all, really.
but there is a difference between TP and OR. I have never once known of any organized activites directed by TP. TP is JUST a blog, and no more. While this organization and it’s blog exists to promote activities (while I assume this, I think I am on pretty stable ground here). As far as I have ever seen, TP does not promote ANY activities between bloggers — not even political protests (which would be the most site-oriented activity, I believe). And while that blog may not be a specific vehicle to organze protests and such, I bet that it is involved in doing so (blog sponsored sites to where one can “join in” and all).
I get your point, and the concern about trollish behavior as well, but there IS a difference. I am certain that their blog is not an anonymous post-only no-activities organized blog. It is a membership vehicle, which makes it a different creature indeed. At least to my perception.
June 1st, 2009 at 11:29 amPeter C Says:
It is also a hate crime – perhaps the sort that the right wing is most afraid of criminalizing.
____________
Well… if some folks consider torture nothing more than “enhanced interrogation”, perhaps they just think of murder as “enhanced free speech”…
June 1st, 2009 at 11:29 amJust because these terrorists hide behind Christianity instead of Islam does not make them any less terrorists. We should use all the tools we have to protect us from these domestic terrorists that we use against international ones. Cold blooded murder is a church is sick.
June 1st, 2009 at 11:32 amDamnit. It took me a bit to get my point out. Let me try shorter.
TP blog is political commentary and no more.
OR blog is a membership vehicle.
I’ll bet real money on that, without having seen their blog.
June 1st, 2009 at 11:33 amIMHO it’s mighty revealing that Minion Roeder chose Dr. Tillers place of worship to do Satan’s bidding.
June 1st, 2009 at 11:37 amBut saying that right wingers cling to their guns is over the top.
June 1st, 2009 at 11:41 am5.ralph the wonder locust Says: It sounds like TP is stretching way too far to connect this murderer with Operation Rescue.
I think it bears a great deal of responsibility when OR’s own site has a “Tiller Watch,” heading. Add to the apparent fact that OR issued a statement at least an hour to 1 1/2 hours before the national news declared Tiller dead.
Things that make you go, “Outlaw These Unhinged Psychopaths, Just Like With The KKK…”
I guess the point being (as I understand what you’re saying, there are no ‘formal’ or damning ties to OR..yet) is that OR attracted hordes of people like this, among others; yet didn’t exactly discourage the rhetoric and hate.
June 1st, 2009 at 11:43 amsatan is a fictional character, just like “god”
June 1st, 2009 at 11:44 amOperation Rescue’s attempt to distance themselves from this terrorist act would be more convincing if their founder, Randall Terry, hadn’t issued the following statement immediately after:
George Tiller was a mass-murderer. We grieve for him that he did not have time to properly prepare his soul to face God.
Yes, that sounds like clear disapproval for the docter’s murder.
PEACE
June 1st, 2009 at 11:44 amWhen you have an organization calling someone a “mass murderer”, you are encouraging some nut job to think that he is doing “gods work” by executing that “mass murderer”.
As far as I am concerned, Operation Rescue is just as responsible for this murder as is the person who committed it.
June 1st, 2009 at 11:44 amWhat’s so bad about abortion?
–It’s murder.
How do we stop it?
–Murder.
That makes sense? So it isn’t so bad? It is impossible to reconcile that false logic. You have to give up the absolute somewhere. Seems like that would say that murder is ok sometimes, and thus so is abortion, if you were to humor the point that abortion is murder.
A life was aborted to stop abortion. It doesn’t make sense.
These type of groups are dedicated to active, often violent, opposition to established law of the land. Talk about hating our freedom, forcing their extremist beliefs and they have no respect for human life.
June 1st, 2009 at 11:45 amralph the wonder locust Says:
But if Roeder was never a member or volunteer for the group, if his only connection was posting on blogs, that makes him no more connected to Operation Rescue than C4P, Merdad or aceomalley7 is connected to TP.
The problem with this is that all we have is Operation Rescue’s word that he was not a member. They have an incentive to lie, in order to distance themselves from the violence.
June 1st, 2009 at 11:46 am“I don’t think this story is suggesting a material relationship. It says that he posted on their blogs a few times and that the group is issuing statements denying any formal relationship. The story does not imply that there is any deeper connection than this.”
Hi, toasterhead, nice to see you. I hate to disagree with your comment, and I don’t like picking on TP, but please see my comment at 11:22 a.m. (I can’t post the number of the comment, my screen just shows the numbers as ‘0′ or ‘1′–my internets are effed up.) I don’t think that TP shows any evidence that Roeder was “in fact” actively connected to OR.
June 1st, 2009 at 11:47 amCageyCretin Says:
OR blog is a membership vehicle.
I’ll bet real money on that, without having seen their blog.
I went to Operation Rescue’s website to see if their blog is membership only and I get a “Forbidden” message. Is it just me or do you get one too? Have they taken down their website to avoid the rage that will undoubtedly be thrown at them?
June 1st, 2009 at 11:51 amFine, Annie. But all you have to demonstrate this connection is your suspicion, and two blog comments.
not so…. he also had the organizations phone number with him on a post-it note in his car at the time of the murder. i’d say thats a fairly significant connection between the organization and the murder… certainly it needs to be investigated.
i didn’t look to see if anyone else got this, so if someone else did, i apologize
June 1st, 2009 at 11:54 amThanks, Jane. It’s comforting to know that someone with as much sense as you sees the same thing I see on this one.
June 1st, 2009 at 11:56 amreligious believers are even worse than drug addicts. at least the object of a drug addicts’ dependency is real and verifiable
June 1st, 2009 at 11:58 amBy all means, please contribute to pro-choice organizations.
But now, more than ever, we MUST work to strengthen the separation of church and state.
To that end, I urge you to join and support AMERICANS UNITED FOR THE SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE.
As we have seen this past weekend, conservative/fundamentalist “Christians” are again targeting abortion providers. They also are willing to spend MILLIONS of dollars to deny civil rights of GLBT Americans.
They are an incalculable threat to democracy. They must be stopped.
Find out more about Americans United here.
June 1st, 2009 at 11:59 amThey’ve probably taken down their website to get rid of incriminating evidence.
June 1st, 2009 at 12:00 pmralph the wonder locust Says:
It’s just kind of weird that TP would run this article on Friday:
O’Reilly Defends Cherry-Picking Comments to Attack Blogs
and then runs a story on Monday doing essentially the same thing.
Fair enough.
I don’t think TP is concluding that Roeder’s blog comments constitute evidence of a connection or conspiracy. But it is always interesting to see a killer hinting at what they’re going to do in advance. So I think it’s more sensationalism then condemnation.
Jane E. Schneider Says:
TP: other than the post-it note, where’s the proof that “Roeder, IN FACT, had been an active member of the Operation Rescue community…”?
I would think that a few blog comments would constitute membership activity. Thus, he’s an active member. I’m not sure if he’s on any “membership lists” or indeed if they have any, but I’d bet that he’s contributed money to them. Which is pretty much what constitutes advocacy group membership these days.
I don’t think anybody’s saying that Op. Rescue engaged in any specific conspiracy regarding the murder whatsoever. I don’t see the post at top alleging that specifically, but it seems to be leaning its implications in that direction. So, for the record, that’s not there, and I don’t think anybody’s going to go there unless some hard evidence popped up out of the blue, which is unlikely
They’re definitely a big part of the environment that led to it happening, though.
It’s also worth mentioning that the U.S. has taken a variety of punitive legal actions against mosques and other Islamic groups who have even less of a connection to acts of Islamist violence.
.
Bilbo Hussein Baggins Says:
I went to Operation Rescue’s website to see if their blog is membership only and I get a “Forbidden” message. Is it just me or do you get one too? Have they taken down their website to avoid the rage that will undoubtedly be thrown at them?
Their server script calls on the power of Christ as a subroutine to see into your liberal heart. I believe that comes standard in Python.
June 1st, 2009 at 12:01 pmRoeder, in fact, had been an active member of the Operation Rescue community and used the group as a platform for his vigilantism. (Authorities found a Post-It note with the group’s phone number in his car after the shooting.)
I agree with Ralph’s point as well. Hey, TP, could we get a clarification on his active membership? Was he a regular poster, commenter, did he meet in person with other posters, or what?
June 1st, 2009 at 12:01 pmElBruce Says:
Their server script calls on the power of Christ as a subroutine to see into your liberal heart. I believe that comes standard in Python.
True Believers use LISP.
June 1st, 2009 at 12:03 pmWhere are they going to house Roeder? I mean, do Kansans really want a terrorist in their backyard?
June 1st, 2009 at 12:04 pmdon’t they keep most of their terrorists in church?
June 1st, 2009 at 12:05 pmRoeder, in fact, had been an active member of the Operation Rescue community and used the group as a platform for his vigilantism.
Why is everyone getting their panties in a wad about TP’s linking the murderer to Operation Rescue?
I don’t see anywhere that they say he was a “card carrying member” of Operation Rescue. They do say that he’s a member of their community (i.e. through their blog). I consider myself to be an active member of the TP community. He was a member of the OP community.
June 1st, 2009 at 12:10 pmUh oh! Looks like Michelle forgot to check her email this morning for today’s RNC talking points.
June 1st, 2009 at 12:12 pmRantingTommy Says:
spring heeled jack Says:
Where are they going to house Roeder? I mean, do Kansans really want a terrorist in their backyard?
don’t they keep most of their terrorists in church?
I thought they put them on the school board.
June 1st, 2009 at 12:14 pmBilbo Hussein Baggins Says:
Why is everyone getting their panties in a wad about TP’s linking the murderer to Operation Rescue?
Because it’s a serious matter the linking of the murder to Operation Rescue.
June 1st, 2009 at 12:15 pmHypocrites like Operation Rescue encourage hatred of people who get abortions and doctors who provide them. Then when something like this happens, they claim they don’t condone violence. I’m sorry but you can’t keep yelling that abortion providers are murderers and then claim no responsibility when someone kills an abortion provider.
June 1st, 2009 at 12:18 pmBilbo Hussein Baggins Says:
I couldn’t get on their site, either, but that may be the filter on this particular computer I am on.
On the other hand, perhaps it is because they want to cover their @sses from any possible incriminating evidence there that links him to them (whether they know of it or not). Or, perhaps their posters have a regular hateful and angry tone (likely) and thus all the people checking them out because of the story would see a bit more hate than they want to project to the general public. Or the authorities shut them down to investigate the site content without any disturbances or alterations.
Or we are both just not able to get on there because of the internet gremlins.
Odds are actually pretty good it is the latter. :)
June 1st, 2009 at 12:20 pmIn Kansas it might as well be the same thing
June 1st, 2009 at 12:27 pmLuis Chapulin M Says:
Bilbo Hussein Baggins Says:
Why is everyone getting their panties in a wad about TP’s linking the murderer to Operation Rescue?
Because it’s a serious matter the linking of the murder to Operation Rescue.
Yes, it is serious, but that was an affiliation of his to some unknown degree. It was also an environment he was a part of, to some degree. It does not imply conspiratorial culpability to the organization, but it does bring it into question.
Chucky Manson belonged to an organization that distanced itself from him after the crime (and had to provide evidence that he had stopped being a dues paying member some time before he ‘did his thing’, and still became the target of intense government scrutiny). When it was determined that that organization did not encourage his ideas and behavior, it was considered inconsequential.
The question is, is this organization, its mission, purpose, and environment inconsequential to this man’s actions?
June 1st, 2009 at 12:28 pmRalph, thanks for the compliment. I just think that I certainly wouldn’t want to be condemned for something on such flimsy ‘evidence.’
The reaction of the OR spokesperson vs the reaction of Randall Terry, along with BillO’s history of rhetoric against Tiller, is an interesting discussion topic in and of itself. If there is “IN FACT” a stronger connection between Roeder and OR besides a couple of blog comments, let’s hear it. Otherwise, I personally will withhold judgment. But that’s just me.
June 1st, 2009 at 12:28 pmKill in the name of Islam and get sent to Gitmo, kill in the name of Christianity and get tax exempt status, your own TV show, access to the White House, support from members of Congress, the list goes on and on.
This shit is just insane, and the hypocrisy is mind boggling.
RIP
June 1st, 2009 at 12:28 pmSGT Stephen R. Sherman
C CO 1-5 IN (STRYKER)
KIA 3 Feb 2005
Mosul, Iraq
Because it’s a serious matter the linking of the murder to Operation Rescue.
only a fool would believe that OR is responsible for this murder.
idividuals are responsible for their own actions
but it has become overwhelmingly apparent that this organization played a role in the development of the plan this individual carried out.
i think its no coincidence that the murder took place in the church and that OR was advocating protests there.
clearly the murder drew some sort of inspiration from this organization as we can see that he was on their website and evidently carried the organizations phone number with him.
but only one person is responsible for this, he has been apprehended and will be punished.
June 1st, 2009 at 12:35 pmLuis Chapulin M Says:
Bilbo Hussein Baggins Says:
Why is everyone getting their panties in a wad about TP’s linking the murderer to Operation Rescue?
Because it’s a serious matter the linking of the murder to Operation Rescue.
So, do you think that Operation Rescue had nothing to do with this guy murdering Dr. Tiller? You think that he was not influenced by their rhetoric?
June 1st, 2009 at 12:37 pmMark701 Says:
Hypocrites like Operation Rescue encourage hatred of people who get abortions and doctors who provide them. Then when something like this happens, they claim they don’t condone violence. I’m sorry but you can’t keep yelling that abortion providers are murderers and then claim no responsibility when someone kills an abortion provider.
Bingo. I think that Operation Rescue took down their website so that they can make sure there is no evidence of this guy’s association with them. All we have is their word that he was not a “member”. But to me that’s just semantics. He may not have been a “member” but he surely was a follower.
It puzzles me that so many people posting here are willing to give Operation Rescue a pass on influencing this guy to murder Tiller.
June 1st, 2009 at 12:44 pmI believe Malkin is being sarcastic here.
The line that calls the action ‘domestic terrorism’ is a quote she pulled from a news story, only she didn’t put quotation marks around it.
She goes on to laugh that NOW the media calls this kind of thing “terrorism”, and not “extremism”.
I do not believe she is calling this terrorism, but the way she wrote the post makes it hard to know for sure.
June 1st, 2009 at 12:44 pmI thought I’d find several trolls frothing at the mouth over this shocking murder. They must be hungover from the parties last night.
Regarding the question of the terrorist Roeder being connected to Operation “Rescue,” it’s not clear that he was acting on behalf of OR. Like someone said above (ralph?), commenting on a blog does not constitute a connection — that’s what we do here, and I don’t feel like I am acting on TP’s behalf. However, Roeder had the phone number of OR on a sticky note in his car — do any of us have the phone number of ThinkProgress? That’s fishy to me.
June 1st, 2009 at 12:46 pmI just can’t get my mind around killing someone because you’re “pro-life.”
June 1st, 2009 at 12:48 pmcalavzma Says:
only a fool would believe that OR is responsible for this murder.
Bilbo Hussein Baggins Says:
So, do you think that Operation Rescue had nothing to do with this guy murdering Dr. Tiller? You think that he was not influenced by their rhetoric?
Guys, let’s agree that Operation Rescue most certainly influenced this wacko killer, but since their site is offline, we can’t judge (right now) how much of an influence they were, how big a participant he was in their community, and how much (or how little) of the responsibility they share.
We’ll see more of this case soon, I’m sure.
June 1st, 2009 at 12:48 pmNo one is saying that, Bilbo.
What we are saying is that TP is drawing connections that, given the evidence at the moment, are unjustified.
That does not absolve anyone or any organization whose violent extremist rhetoric helped inflame the atmosphere in which such a crime could be committed. It simply is an attempt to keep TP from looking foolish.
June 1st, 2009 at 12:49 pmTP allows CFP, O$, and toiletintexas to post here. I don’t think they are concerned with looking ‘foolish’
June 1st, 2009 at 12:52 pmConservativeForProgress Says:
June 1st, 2009 at 12:48 pm
Do you have a point?
June 1st, 2009 at 12:52 pm“It puzzles me that so many people posting here are willing to give Operation Rescue a pass on influencing this guy to murder Tiller.”
Bilbo, I agree that OR influenced Roeder, all I’m saying is that (again), aside from a post-it and two blog comments, TP has not provided any concrete link between Roeder and OR. And I’m certainly not saying that there isn’t any concrete link, just that, from my viewpoint, there is nothing in the thread that provides that link. If, for instance, that post-it note had Tony Newman’s personal phone number on it, I would consider that much more damning than just OR’s general phone number.
June 1st, 2009 at 12:56 pmWhat we are saying is that TP is drawing connections that, given the evidence at the moment, are unjustified.
i don’t think its a leap to say he was an active member of the community, he clearly was.
posting on their website is an action, he was participating in their community, he was thus active in their community.
i used to post frequently, then i posted less… if i were to murder someone, it would certainly be fair to say i was an active member of the think progress community.
the dude took action, he was involved.
tp hasn’t implicated OR but simply highlighted that the murderer was involved with the organization to some extent and was an active and visible force on their message boards and thus in their community.
the internet allows communities to span much larger spaces.
June 1st, 2009 at 1:00 pmcalavzma Says:
posting on their website is an action, he was participating in their community, he was thus active in their community.
Ugh. I fear to read something in the future like:
“Someone going by the moniker of LookUpToTheHills, an active member of the ThinkProgress community, was found plotting an assassination attempt…”.
What a field day O’Rielly would have with that.
June 1st, 2009 at 1:18 pmConservativeForProgress Says:
June 1st, 2009 at 1:17 pm
Yeah, we knew that.
AGAIN, do you have a point?
June 1st, 2009 at 1:24 pmLuis, I agree. If I finally snapped and performed some heinous act of violence, they’d be able to find thousands of my comments, not just one or two. Plus emails between me and Faiz. Plus my connection with TheZoo. And, although I don’t remember ever having advocated violence in any of my comments, I’m sure that a couple could be picked out to sound more dangerous than they were.
June 1st, 2009 at 1:28 pmLuis, I agree. If I finally snapped and performed some heinous act of violence, they’d be able to find thousands of my comments, not just one or two. Plus emails between me and Faiz. Plus my connection with TheZoo. And, although I don’t remember ever having advocated violence in any of my comments, I’m sure that a couple could be picked out to sound more dangerous than they were.
i agree that it would be a shame, and a horrible day for thinkprogress if something like that were to happen, but the facts would be unavoidable and there would be an undeniable connection, especially if you committed a politically motivated act of violence
i too have comments out there that could be seen as much more dangerous than they were meant, i’m sure. but maybe the lesson in this is not that connections should not be made to the sites where these communites thrive, but rather that we should all take more seriously what we do post on here.
clearly some people take these things much more seriously than others. hopefully non of those who comment here will commit a politically motiviated act of violence where their involvement in the thinkprogress community would be relevant to understanding their act of violence.
that being said… think progress would certainly not be to blame for the acts of someone who was a member in their community
just as OR is not responsible for the acts of a member of their online community.
thinkprogress has not accused them of being responsible, merely highlighted that this guy was involved in their community…. as if that was a surprise, if it wasn’t OR it would have been another similar group.
June 1st, 2009 at 1:42 pmLuis Chapulin M Says:
Ugh. I fear to read something in the future like:
“Someone going by the moniker of LookUpToTheHills, an active member of the ThinkProgress community, was found plotting an assassination attempt…”.
More parrallell with: “…was found to have assassinated….”.
In such an instance I would actually expect law enforcement to be investigating TP, how it operates and moderates, and other posters who may have a connection. Posters who ‘just agreed’ with violent rhetoric would not be criminally culpable, but the point is to determine if anyone WAS. And TP itself would have some measure of responsibility to indicate that by its own content (not the posters) it did not foment the action.
Investigation is and should be necessarry.
For our part, I agree with everyone else who says that we need to see the site (wasn’t it more than one?), and determine how the site itself may or may not have been involved in inciting the action, and to see how their community posts. It is suspicious that they apparently had a special link that pertained specifically to the man who was murdered. What was the content of that site?
And finally, I strongly believe that there is a great difference between TP (a blog for political commenters) and a member-seeking religious based organization’s blog (whose purpose is, most likely, to increase their membership — in which case, all comments allowed to stand reflect directly on the organization in one way or another). Their site is not “just a blog” if its purpose is to increase membership in the parent organization.
But, we need to see it. And perhaps that is why it is unavailable — something a little condemning there….? …..
And CFP — do you have that number (I assume its supposed to be TP’s office number) on a post-it in your car? Why or why not?
June 1st, 2009 at 1:46 pmConservativeForProgress Says:
It appears that the Catholic Bishops are consistently pro-life.
During the inquisitions (and even now) the catholic church insists that it never killed anyone. In the auto de feys (sp?), as well as all other instances, no member of the clergy was involved in garrotting or burning anyone alive: the church made a judgement, and the secular authorites were commanded to do the church’s dirty work. Thus, by THEIR admission, they never killed anyone (wink, wink). Semantics, no more.
June 1st, 2009 at 1:50 pmI can’t get my mind around someone calling themselves “pro-life” and then killing someone they disagree with.
IMO the mission, rhetoric, tone and purpose of the organization has to be taken into account. If an organization was influencing violence in ways subtle or overt, plausibly deniable or not, they should bear some responsibility for actions they influenced, whether they pulled the trigger or not…
June 1st, 2009 at 2:08 pmIMO the mission, rhetoric, tone and purpose of the organization has to be taken into account. If an organization was influencing violence in ways subtle or overt, plausibly deniable or not, they should bear some responsibility for actions they influenced, whether they pulled the trigger or not…
believe me, i’m not defending OR, i’m just saying they are not legally responsible for the acts, they are not to blame.
that being said, i do believe the public should judge an organization by the types of individuals who support it. and in this case that does not bode well for OR
i think they’re a hateful group with no respect for the constitution of the privacy of their fellow americans, certainly they are not an admirable group and they very likely had an impact on the decision Roeder made to kill someone guilty of no crime.
but they are not responsible for the actions of Roeder.
they are, however, certainly responsible for creating a culture of hate within their organization and we can take them to task for that.
June 1st, 2009 at 2:14 pmRe Michelle Malkin’s blog post:
I read her post. She points out that people are calling the murder “terrorism” then spends the rest of the post telling us how unfair that is and how wide-eyed innocents who have only publicly called Tiller a mass-murderer will now be hounded for their simple exercise of free speech. She herself mentions that “blood on his [Tiller's] hands” in the post.
She is NOT saying that his murder is a terrorist act. Quite the opposite.
I support a robust investigation of pro-life groups, including infiltration. Also, I believe that this is not the last of such acts we will witness, including quite possibly an attempt at presidential assassination.
June 1st, 2009 at 2:16 pmcalavzma:
but they are not responsible for the actions of Roeder
No, we do not know if they are responsible for the actions of Roeder.
June 1st, 2009 at 2:17 pmThis current situation reminds me of Manson…he didn’t physically participate in the killings but was convicted of murder.
June 1st, 2009 at 2:27 pmActually THEY *ARE*. Even Frank Schaeffer admits HE, HIS FATHER and the WINGNUT-ORAMA that PREACH VIOLENCE are *RESPONSIBLE* for this.
to oppose abortion is different than advocating the murder of anyone who was apart of it.
i think to oppose abortion is someones own right, and as a result that person should not get an abortion, but i think to ban abortions would be absolutely unconstitutional.
you speak with a lot of sweeping generalizations, certainly not everyone in the organization is criminal.
and individuals are responsible for their own actions
Daddy Love made the point that we don’t know if OR is responsible for this YET…. i would have to agree. there seem to be enough potential links that we need to investigate to see if they were criminally involved or more directly responsible.
i didn’t mean to convey that they couldn’t be responsible or that we shouldn’t look into it, but i won’t leap to conclusions without facts and evidence to support it.
i’ll leave that to the republicans.
June 1st, 2009 at 3:43 pmhaha
RHF
you said i project alot and then implied i think charles manson should be released… whos projecting there
certainly there are individuals within the “pro-life” lobby who are criminals and should be put away.
but not everyone is like this, there are plenty of people who don’t like abortion but respect the legality of it…. they don’t protest though
certainly these people are dispicable.
i don’t see how i’m creating a reality not based on facts.
you seem to think the facts are that everyone who is pro-life is an extremist of that point of view
clearly you don’t have the biggest fondness for facts, and you’re attacking and name calling someone who generally agrees with most of your points.
i’m just not trying to demonize everyone who has a point of view, because there are many people who do think abortion is wrong but would never act violently in opposition to it. there is no problem with these people (i am not one of them, i don’t think the abortion issue should be a debate and the fact that we still discuss roe v. wade as a “controverstial decision” saddens me)
lots of capital letters and insults don’t make you right
and calling me a liar certainly doesn’t either
and there most certainly is a difference between opposing abortion and advocating violence.
you are an idiot if you believe otherwise
June 1st, 2009 at 4:25 pmnote,,, the people who are dispicable are not the non-protestors… they are the types who advocate hate.
they should not have a significant part in the dialog
unfortunately they have the majority share of the dialog.
June 1st, 2009 at 4:26 pmThere is no reason to presume that OR had a direct part in the crime; but when an organization calls someone a mass murderer in a forum with people who vehemently agree with that assessment, and then post a picture of that person with the addresses for his home, office, and church then I think it appropriate to call this targeting behavior into question and to question whether or not the group has some culpability. This is not an isolated incident.
June 1st, 2009 at 5:00 pmFrom a reader at Andrew Sullivan’s blog, who posted the same thing someone did here:
That quote by Michelle Malkin that you posted describing the killing of Tiller as “terrorism” wasn’t by Michelle. It was a quote from a post on some other blog and she linked to Google. She didn’t call it terrorism. In fact, she was basically pulling the “oh NOW the left uses the word ‘terrorism’” card. Just didn’t want you giving her credit for something she didn’t actually do.
June 1st, 2009 at 5:51 pmhttp://crooksandliars.com/mike-finnigan/mikes-blog-roundup-214
June 1st, 2009 at 6:23 pmFrom HuffPo
You may recall the enormous controversy that erupted in April over a Department of Homeland Security report that assessed the threat of “right wing extremists.” The story provoked days of nonstop cable chatter, and DHS chief Janet Napolitano ultimately apologized.
Fast forward to the huge and horrible news yesterday that late-term abortion doctor George Tiller was shot dead by a man who reportedly posted on the blog of the anti-abortion group Operation Rescue. Maybe we should take another look at all that criticism?
One passage from the DHS report that provoked nonstop outrage said that right wing extremists “may include groups and individuals that are dedicated to a single issue, such as opposition to abortion or immigration.”
June 1st, 2009 at 7:23 pmrepublicans hate facts….
i’ve never called abortion murder
and i’ve never called anyone a baby killer
i’m totally pro-life.
your argument is completely false.
you’ve been putting words in my mouth this whole time, find any of those words written by me.
if you’ll scroll up you’ll find that i was one of those saying it wasn’t in appropriate for think progress to look to OR as being a part in this, as its clear they have a link… we should investigate if it is a criminal one and put them away if it is.
i support planned parenthood.
you’re way out of line.
June 1st, 2009 at 11:24 pmdoh…
i’ve had a few drinks and wrote pro-life instead of pro-choice
hahaha
i think my support of planned parenthood and general confusion at the pro-life argument will clear up any confusion
i’m a total atheist so there isn’t any part of the argument that makes sense to me.
i wish i could edit comments, i’ll have to proofread in the future
haha
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