As Salon’s Gabriel Winant has documented, Fox News host Bill O’Reilly regularly demonized Dr. George Tiller, who was murdered on Sunday, as “Tiller the Baby Killer.” But as ThinkProgress noted yesterday, O’Reilly is not “backpedaling” from his incendiary attacks on Tiller. In fact, while debating former National Organization for Women president Patricia Ireland last night, O’Reilly referred to Tiller as “Dr. Killer” without realizing it. “You call him Dr. Killer and he was murdered,” replied Ireland, adding “that that is just outrageous.” Watch it:
Transcript:
IRELAND: I am saying that Dr. Tiller’s records did not show anyone saying she wanted a late term abortion because of she couldn’t play sports.O’REILLY: How do you know? Have you examined those records?
IRELAND: Yes.
O’REILLY: You have?
IRELAND: I was telling you that I know that because Kansas would not allow that. It is illegal. That is not a valid reason.
I will also tell you that my sister was wheeled into labor saying I’ve changed my mind I’m not going to have a baby. And we all laughed, because of course, she was.
There are obviously in the third trimester health issues, whether it’s hypertension, preeclampsia, the death of a fetus that requires it to be removed to avoid an infection, all kinds of reasons that we have to have that option of late term abortion.
O’REILLY: Well, in order to terminate a life.
IRELAND: The fact that Dr. Tiller was murdered is.
O’REILLY: In order to terminate a life, that has to be catastrophic and I think it has been proven beyond a reasonable doubt, and Dr. Killer’s case that wasn’t what he was doing. But Ms. Ireland, we appreciate you coming him on.
IRELAND: You call him Dr. Killer and he was murdered.
O’REILLY: He was murdered.
IRELAND: I think that that is just outrageous.
O’REILLY: And so do I. I agree 100 percent with you. It cannot happen in America. Thank you for appearing tonight.
IRELAND: (INAUDIBLE).
Little Billy is a turd swirling around a toilet bowl. The sooner he is completely flushed, the better.
June 3rd, 2009 at 9:56 am“pro-life” indeed…this is just one more thing proving the outright hypocrisy of Billdo and his ilk, as they continue to incite domestic terrorism…
June 3rd, 2009 at 9:57 amAlways classy, Billy, always classy…..
June 3rd, 2009 at 9:58 amBTW, when Billdo says at the end “I agree with you 100 percent,” it appears that he doesn’t get that Ireland was slamming him for being “outrageous” with his “Dr. Killer” comment.
Billdo agrees 100% that he’s outrageous — now that oughta get some play somewhere…
June 3rd, 2009 at 10:00 amSo Bill-O is still on the quest to save his own ass, huh? Why can’t he just admit he doesn’t know what he’s talking about when it comes to late-term abortion? Just another old, white man who wants to make birth decisions for women.
June 3rd, 2009 at 10:02 amRight wing christians love their violence and murder, just like Jesus did. oh wait.
June 3rd, 2009 at 10:03 amO’Reilly reminds me of “Joe the Plumber” except O’Reilly has a little hair on his head and three coats of makeup.
June 3rd, 2009 at 10:04 amO’Reilly is so despicable. The man’s ego is out of this world. I hope O’Reilly has the same experience as Dr. Tiller.
June 3rd, 2009 at 10:05 amBoycott Fox until they at least say that his opinions do not represent those of Fox…. unlikely to be sure. Boycott because they are what they are.
June 3rd, 2009 at 10:05 amAnyone who doesn’t “stop” Bill O’Reilly will have the blood of innocent doctor’s on their hands.
June 3rd, 2009 at 10:05 amAs far as OReilly is concerned, if a crack dealer gets a teenage girl addicted to crack and has her pay for it with sex other than oral sex, should she get pregnant, she should be required by law to carry that baby to term and give birth to it. If the crack dealer is her father, that apparently doesn’t matter.
June 3rd, 2009 at 10:06 amyou stay classy, Bildo…
June 3rd, 2009 at 10:07 amSo now who is BO going to target next? After he’s squeezed as much coverage as he can out of helping to have Dr. Tiller murdered I mean.
Gotta have a target to attack for the entertainment of your angry, ignorant viewers, right?
June 3rd, 2009 at 10:10 amWhat is “striking” CFP is the weakness of your assertion.
June 3rd, 2009 at 10:11 amFirst off CancervativeForRegress, instead of regurgitating talking points from the right, care to link where the “Muslim vigilante” was “left-wing” as your proof?
Second, I will from now on refer to O’Rally as Mr. American Terrorist Supporter.
Third, if Mr. American Terrorist Supporter wants to be accurate (which he doesn’t), it would Tiller the Zygote Killer.
Mucking foron!
June 3rd, 2009 at 10:13 amConservativeForProgress Says:
When a right-wing Christian vigilante kills a late term abortionist, “Progressive” fingers race to point the finger at all Conservatives. Yet, when a left-wing Muslim vigilante kills military recruiters, he kills alone. The disparate treatment of the two cases is striking.
Too bad you are either too stupid to think this statement through or too dishonest to make a true comparison. I’ll go with dishonest.
June 3rd, 2009 at 10:14 amWhen a right-wing Christian vigilante kills a late term abortionist, “Progressive” fingers race to point the finger at all Conservatives. Yet, when a left-wing Muslim vigilante kills military recruiters, he kills alone. The disparate treatment of the two cases is striking.
I don’t blame all conservatives. I blame the extremists in the christian conservative movement. I do question why ‘regular’ christians attempt to defend Roeder, though. And Roeder wasn’t a ‘lone wolf.’ There are over a decade of links between him and violent anti-choice groups where he received encouragement and direction. Heck, he visited the person in jail who was convicted of attempted murder on Tiller.
What the guy did to the military recruiters is wrong and awful. But it was not part of a larger, violent, and unrepentant movement. Many people in Roeder’s camp consider him a hero.
June 3rd, 2009 at 10:15 amI think it’s important to note that her last words in that video weren’t inaudible. She said, “it did.” And that is a valid remark to make for O’Reilly’s heartless and ignorant attempt at agreeing with her.
June 3rd, 2009 at 10:16 amNo basic cable “news” organization was advocating for action against those particular individuals. That is why no one is taking your attempt to turn the tables seriously.
You have to contend to the fact that your people go on TV, call out private individuals who are doing their legal job by name and incite hatred. That is regressive and messed up.
June 3rd, 2009 at 10:17 amO’Lielly knows no shame. Perhaps the sponsors of his program should be boycotted until he shows some decency.
June 3rd, 2009 at 10:18 amWhen C4Pee can point to a single left-wing commentator who made a case celeb out of any military recruiter, let alone the individuals targeted by a disturbed gunman, the C4Pee can draw a parallel with a little more substance than the one he offers us now.
Unfortunately, we’re going to have to decline the one he offers now, and not least because of the urine stains.
June 3rd, 2009 at 10:18 amConservativeForProgress Says:
When a right-wing Christian vigilante kills a late term abortionist, “Progressive” fingers race to point the finger at all Conservatives.
_____________
When you take into account the number of right wing whack jobs like O’Reilly, et al, who were calling for his death, it’s hard to NOT come to that conclusion, moron.
No one here has been calling for the deaths of American soldiers the way phony right wing gas bags were after tiller.
You really are THAT dishonest/stupid. It must be PAINFUL being you.
June 3rd, 2009 at 10:18 amWhat compels intelligent people to go on Faux News to let themselves get run over by stupidity? The outcome is predictable for anyone who doesn’t want to get into a flat out yelling match with idiot O’Lielly.
O’Lielly always gets the last word and if he’s getting beat up he just plops a big O’Lielly crap on the “conversation”. Nothing is accomplished by going on Faux besides giving O’Lielly some much undeserved credibility.
June 3rd, 2009 at 10:18 amO’Reilly is just a crazy, misguided street preacher who has a TV show.
The problem is, there are people who listen to street preachers even though most just walk on by and say, “What the hell is he screaming about?”
June 3rd, 2009 at 10:18 amConservativeForProgress Says:
I realize Malkin is insisting that these two are somehow comparable but you’ll notice she never explains why. How can you say that O’Reilly’s continued incitement to violence against Dr. Tiller is somehow the same as the guy who shot up the recruiting center? Which person on the left incited him? Which talking head?
June 3rd, 2009 at 10:19 amDon’t be too hasty, Wayne. c4Pee makes a good case for Stupid as well.
Maybe it’s both.
June 3rd, 2009 at 10:19 amO’Reilly is a excellent example of a failed abortion attempt, one that the fetus lived and was begat on to the world!
June 3rd, 2009 at 10:20 amIRELAND: I think that that is just outrageous.
O’REILLY: And so do I. I agree 100 percent with you. It cannot happen in America. Thank you for appearing tonight.
IRELAND: (INAUDIBLE).
Come again? WTF was Bill’O saying here? It’s like one of our trolls or something.
.
ConservativeForProgress Says:
When a right-wing Christian vigilante kills a late term abortionist, “Progressive” fingers race to point the finger at all Conservatives. Yet, when a left-wing Muslim vigilante kills military recruiters, he kills alone. The disparate treatment of the two cases is striking.
Still waiting for citations of left-wing media demonizing military recruiters to the level of inciting violence. Yep. Here I am, waiting for you to back that one up…
June 3rd, 2009 at 10:20 amConservativeForProgress Says:
When a right-wing Christian vigilante kills a late term abortionist, “Progressive” fingers race to point the finger at all Conservatives. Yet, when a left-wing Muslim vigilante kills military recruiters, he kills alone. The disparate treatment of the two cases is striking.
***
i heard laura ingraham say the exact same thing the other day.
coincidence?
:)
keep those “original” thoughts coming, cfp!
:)
:|
June 3rd, 2009 at 10:21 amConservativeForProgress, why do you love right-wing terrorists?
June 3rd, 2009 at 10:22 amC’mon, CancervativeForRegress.
June 3rd, 2009 at 10:24 amYou’ve being challenged.
Normally, one who wishes to debate would accept the challenge, eagerly!
But, alas, you’re not here for debate, are you monkey breath?
ConservativeForProgress Says
June 3rd, 2009 at 10:08 am
When a right-wing Christian vigilante kills a late term abortionist, “Progressive” fingers race to point the finger at all Conservatives. Yet, when a left-wing Muslim vigilante kills military recruiters, he kills alone. The disparate treatment of the two cases is striking.
___________________________________________________________
Stretching for incongruence this morning? There are a few flaws in your observation.
First — I don’t see any fingers pointing at “all Conservatives” (is there a reason why you capitalize that?). Just the ones who have done everything they can to paint a bullseye on Tiller by claiming things like anybody who stands by and does nothing about him has “blood on their hands”. Like Bill O’Reilly. And Operation Rescue. And anyone else whose rhetoric inflamed Tiller’s murderer.
Second — You may not have noticed this, but I (and virtually everybody else on this site) condemn all extremist Muslims (and anybody else) who call for violence against us. I have even said in previous posts that the Little Rock gunman was no doubt motivated by hateful rhetoric as much as the Tiller shooter. However, I don’t believe those who advocate terrorism include “all Muslims”, and for that reason I don’t blame “all Muslims” for the Little Rock shooting. And this might be what’s getting you tripped up.
Third — please provide evidence that the Little Rock gunman is “left-wing”. You and many other conservatives love to try to attach that label to anybody whose actions you don’t agree with, no matter how violent, criminal, psychotic, lunatic, or off-the-wall those actions are.
The “disparate treatment” of the two cases exists only in your mind.
June 3rd, 2009 at 10:26 am….
scott roeder.
bill o’reilly.
righteous indignation.
:\
June 3rd, 2009 at 10:28 amfirst off… i love it when someone like bill o’reilly gets shut down for saying something like “how do you know, have you examined the records?” as if everyone does what he does and just makes things up on the fly and has opinions based on nothing.
real professionals do their own research bill o
……
on the killing of the military recruiter. this is a tragedy, and a horrible thing, he was so young.
but how do we know that his killer was left wing. he was muslim now doubt, but last i checked islam had fairly conservative values.
June 3rd, 2009 at 10:29 amMaybe I can explain. You see, liberals criticized George W. Bush for invading Iraq. To the primitive reptilian mind of your typical right-wing extremist, like Malkin and C4P, that is the same thing as being anti-American and hating all military personel. To them, George W. Bush was (and still is) America and the US military was (and still is) an extension of their Bushgod.
June 3rd, 2009 at 10:30 amtom sez: Little Billy is a turd swirling around a toilet bowl.
June 3rd, 2009 at 10:30 amAnd he’s right – except sometimes they just don’t want to go down — they must have too much gas. Flush again until he finally goes down.
DRxJapanese Beetle Says:
C’mon, CancervativeForRegress.
You’ve being challenged.
Normally, one who wishes to debate would accept the challenge, eagerly!
But, alas, you’re not here for debate, are you monkey breath?
***
he hits, he runs.
he hates everyone.
just like scott.
“\
conservatives.
they’re so angry.
:(
June 3rd, 2009 at 10:30 amProud, Please link were Olbermann incited the nut in Arkansas. It should be really easy for you, seeing as you must be watching his show every evening.
June 3rd, 2009 at 10:30 amPeople who are truly pro-life would not approve of executions, of war, of torture, of denying health care, or of letting young women die from infection caused by a dead fetus in utero.
June 3rd, 2009 at 10:31 amConservativeForProgress Says:
The Far Left’s war on military recruiters is well documented.
***
laura.
michelle.
cfp is pw’ed.
***
June 3rd, 2009 at 10:31 amProd, we appreciate the effort.
But you have to be able to convince yourself before you can start to convince us.
Remember the words of George Costanza:
“It’s not a lie, if you believe it.”
June 3rd, 2009 at 10:32 amSee post #37
June 3rd, 2009 at 10:32 amCFP, links Malkin to support his case. Bwahahahahahaha!!!
June 3rd, 2009 at 10:32 amProud Says:
Keith Olbermann is responsible for inciting the shooting in Arkansas at the recruiting center. For years he has attacked the military, the war in Iraq, Pres Bush. His hatred of the military and for America is clearly on the record. He tries to stir up the hatred of the right on a nightly basis. And unfortunately one of his viewers took the bait and murdered a soldier and wounded another. Sounds crazy, well it is the same argument you are making against Bill O’Reilly. Please check your hypocrisy at the door.
You do realize that simply making sh!t like this up doesn’t advance the neocon story at all, right? This particular comment is so riddled with lies and ignorance that it’s difficult to know where to begin. Olbermann does nothing of the kind in terms of the military; hatred of the right should be “distrust and disgust with right wing nutjobs like Proud”; you have no proof at all that the killer was “one of his viewers” and since the killer is an Islamic convert fundie, it is extremely unlikely — Islamic fundamentalists, like Christian fundies, are CONSERVATIVE, you moron.
Open your eyes for once: no radio or tv host on the left, no pundit, no organization, has called for the death of those recruiting soldiers — or any soldiers. Stop lying and wake up!
June 3rd, 2009 at 10:33 amIs Bill O’Reilly even married with children? IMO only parents are entitled to discuss planned parenthood and abortion.
thats the stupidest thing i’ve ever heard.
you clearly know very little about what planned parenthood does.
they’re big on preventing pregnancy from wed-lock, its not just abortions, its condoms and safe sex, those other 2 things the right wing don’t want us telling our kids about.
June 3rd, 2009 at 10:34 amshoeless Says:
——————————————————————————–
Oops! Make that post #38
June 3rd, 2009 at 10:34 amright wing terrorists that kill abortion doctors are just as bad as the right wing terrorist that shot the recruiter
CFP ignores the fact that religious extremists are right wingers, including Christian AND Muslim terrorists
ANYONE that kills in the name of a fictional man in the sky is a right wing terrorist
right wingers let their religion convince them to try to enforce their delusions onto others
June 3rd, 2009 at 10:35 amProud Says:
I have watched Olbermann for a long time now and he has never once attacked the military. Has he attacked torture? Absolutely. We all should. O’Reilly’s incitement is on the record. Can you point to an example of Olbermann “attacking the military”? Just one example is all I ask and I promise to examine it carefully and objectively.
June 3rd, 2009 at 10:35 amConservativeForProgress Says:
The Far Left’s war on military recruiters is well documented.
And you still don’t know what the word “documented” means, do you, goon? “Documented” does not mean “foaming barking madness from one of the media’s craziest wingnuts.”
We’re still waiting for proof (or, heck, evidence) that left wing media has ever called for the death of anyone in the military, much less recruiters. Until you can come up with that, you’re just going to keep on lying, aren’t you?
June 3rd, 2009 at 10:36 amThe lunatic fringe of American politics – the “right” – are frightened, hate-filled marginal people. Their ignorance and disingenuousness are unsurpassed. Nothing they do or say surprises me. A slug like O’Reilly is well aware of this and he uses these people for his own benefit. O’Reilly is as anti-American as one can get. He sickens me.
June 3rd, 2009 at 10:36 amConservativeForProgress Says:
“When a right-wing Christian vigilante kills a late term abortionist, “Progressive” fingers race to point the finger at all Conservatives. Yet, when a left-wing Muslim vigilante kills military recruiters, he kills alone. The disparate treatment of the two cases is striking.”
Private William Long, WAS murdered by someone acting alone ( 23-year old Abdulhakim Mujahid Muhammad)
Muhammad was “not part of a larger group or part of a conspiracy” (according to Lt. Col. Thomas F. Artis of the Oklahoma City Recruiting Battalion).
Dr Tiller was murdered by a pro-abortion activist who had the encouragement of anti-abortion activist groups, religious organizations,Republicans AND media personalities such as Bill O’Reilly.
Christ, cfp, can’t you get anything right? How the hell do you manage to turn a light switch on and off properly?
The anti-abortion movement comprises dozens of organizations all of them religious. Over three decades they have engaged in kidnapping, attempted murder, murder, arson, fire bombings and explosive bombings. And they have always blamed the victims of their violence. The majority of organized anti-abortion groups are by definition terrorist groups.
According to CNN, Roeder’s associates describe him as a regular participant in anti-abortion demonstrations in Kansas City and Wichita—a characterization corroborated by one worker at the Kansas City Central Family Medicine clinic, who said that Roeder was “hard to miss” because of his height. Roeder had been interrupted several times trying to disable the locks of the clinic with epoxy, but was never convicted. Another employee of the clinic memorized Roeder’s license plate number.
It so happens I just wrote a post specifically on the subject that conservativeforpogress gets completely backwards. CFP won’t be able to make any sense of it of course, on account of all the facts and logic and research in it.
http://at5thestate.blogspot.com/2009/06/religious-white-christians-cant-be.html
June 3rd, 2009 at 10:37 amConservativeForProgress Says:
When a right-wing Christian vigilante
If he is killing, then he is not a Christian.
Yet, when a left-wing Muslim vigilante
You cannot say that he is left-wing. where is your evidence?
June 3rd, 2009 at 10:37 amIf he is opposed to religious freedom and wants a theocracy, that makes him right-wing. If he is opposed to music, dancing, movies, women’s rights, etc., that makes him right-wing.
Proud Says:
Keith Olbermann is responsible for inciting the shooting in Arkansas at the recruiting center. For years he has attacked the military, the war in Iraq, Pres Bush. His hatred of the military and for America is clearly on the record. He tries to stir up the hatred of the right on a nightly basis. And unfortunately one of his viewers took the bait and murdered a soldier and wounded another. Sounds crazy, well it is the same argument you are making against Bill O’Reilly. Please check your hypocrisy at the door.
***
you didn’t show up saturday night.
you chickened out, didn’t you?
you are a coward.
why should anyone listen to you?
:)
June 3rd, 2009 at 10:37 amI want to know when Keith Olberman said the name of the recruiter that was killed. When did he call him by name once?
Also, don’t bring up private citizens as being the equivalent as an anchor on a nightly cable “news” show. Not the same thing.
June 3rd, 2009 at 10:38 amDr. Hussein Matt Says:
Conservatism = Terrorism. Fact.
The growing list of reich-wing teabagging terrorism:
Scott P. Roeder
Timothy McVeigh
Terry Nichols
Eric Rudolph
Dannie Baker
Richard Andrew Poplawski
Dr. Nicholas Bartha
Jim Adkisson
Abortion Clinic bombers
Sulejman Talovic
Charles Carl Roberts
Aaron Kyle Hoff
Jennifer San Marco
Jeffery Weise
Robert Steinhauser
Michael McDermott
cfp
proud
o’relly
***
the list goes on…
…
June 3rd, 2009 at 10:39 amProud Says:
If that is not incitng hatred and violence then you are truly deluded.
_____________
Sorry, dude… try as you may, but that’s simply too silly for words.
NEXT!!!!!
June 3rd, 2009 at 10:40 amProud Says:
angels81 Says:
——————————————————————————–
Proud, Please link were Olbermann incited the nut in Arkansas. It should be really easy for you, seeing as you must be watching his show every evening.
Are you serious or just ignorant. At your pleasure please feel free to look at any “special comment” Olberman made regarding Pres Bush. If that is not incitng hatred and violence then you are truly deluded.
***
more cowardice from
the cowardly.
:::
June 3rd, 2009 at 10:40 amProud Says
June 3rd, 2009 at 10:28 am
Keith Olbermann is responsible for inciting the shooting in Arkansas at the recruiting center. For years he has attacked the military, the war in Iraq, Pres Bush. His hatred of the military and for America is clearly on the record. He tries to stir up the hatred of the right on a nightly basis. And unfortunately one of his viewers took the bait and murdered a soldier and wounded another. Sounds crazy, well it is the same argument you are making against Bill O’Reilly. Please check your hypocrisy at the door.
____________________________________________________________
No hypocrisy here. Keith Olbermann has opposed the war in Iraq, as have many others. But he has kept his attacks to the decision-makers, not the boots on the ground. In fact, when he speaks of the troops at all, it’s to support them. The conservatives haven’t been all that vocal regarding getting proper equipment, proper medical care, sufficient down-time between deployments, adequate hospital conditions, and adequate pay for our troops, but Keith Olbermann and progressive voices have been. Your argument that Keith hates the military just because he found Donald Rumsfeld to be incompetent doesn’t hold water.
Bill O’Reilly has condemned George Tiller by name. That’s pretty specific. When you find somebody who has been just as specific with their vitriol against Army recruiters, then your point might have some validity.
June 3rd, 2009 at 10:40 amIf liberals had as many raving lunatics among our ranks as the Rightwingnutjobs, O’Reilly would already be dead.
Just sayin…
June 3rd, 2009 at 10:40 amProud Says:
Are you serious or just ignorant. At your pleasure please feel free to look at any “special comment” Olberman made regarding Pres Bush. If that is not incitng hatred and violence then you are truly deluded.
Criticizing Bush is the equivalent of inciting a Muslim extremist killer? You truly are delusional, Proud. Your little brain is so filled with hate that it’s incapable of actual thought.
June 3rd, 2009 at 10:41 am…
didn’t take long for cfp
to duck under the bed
and hide, did it?
***
another conservative coward.
:|
June 3rd, 2009 at 10:41 amHey! This is awesome.
Instead of debating the issue, the antagonists here are just going to make $hit up! Sweet!
I’ve got some.
George W Bush wears a pink tutu every morning before breakfast.
Rushed Limbaugh fellates teenage boys in the Caribbean.
Sean Hannity has a propensity to model thong underwear for a Victoria Secret underground gathering.
Huckabee enjoys internet gay porn.
Oh boy oh boy oh boy oh boy, this is fun!!!
June 3rd, 2009 at 10:41 amproud, Once again you can’t give us a link to were Olberman said he hated our troops, so you now change to Olberman bashed bush. Please link to were Olberman incited people to violence against bush or our troops.
June 3rd, 2009 at 10:42 amC4Pee’s motto:
“Evidence? We don’ need no stinking evidence!”
(yes, C4Pee even steals his motto.)
June 3rd, 2009 at 10:42 amI note you didn’t bother responding to the many “libtards” who DID in fact refute. You only chose to focus on the one who recognized that the refutation was complete, and thought that your silliness should be highlighted.
Why is that, Prod?
June 3rd, 2009 at 10:43 amHow many of the men who murdered doctors who do abortions are really thinking about the babies? I would guess the number is Zero. These are certifiably crazy people who just need rhetoric such as Bill O’Reilly’s to set them off the edge, just needing an excuse to go out and kill. O’Reilly is aiding and abetting. He should be criminally prosecuted. And please trolls, don’t tell me about free speech. No one has the right to falsely yell FIRE in a crowded theater. O’Reilly doesn’t get the facts right. Dr. Tiller did not do late term abortions willy-nilly. These were women who were in dire need.
June 3rd, 2009 at 10:44 amI understand that Scott Roeder confessed his sins and is pure as a newborn baby in God’s eyes again.
NO wait. The newborn baby is full of sin and going to hell unless he is blessed by some closet baby raper.
I get so confused trying to keep the mythology straight. Tell me this Proudaspunch, is Scottie your hero now? Do you have his pictured tacked to the ceiling above your bed for the nightly self abuse ritual?
June 3rd, 2009 at 10:44 amPro-life before birth, after birth not so much.
June 3rd, 2009 at 10:45 am….
their names were
william long and quinton ezeagwula.
***
to their shame neither proud or cfp
bothered to mention their names.
i guess it wasn’t important to their
right wing agenda.
…
June 3rd, 2009 at 10:45 amOreilly knows what he did was wrong that’s why he continues to demonize Tiller even after his death. When he went through that long speech on Monday he was not really “addressing his critics” or “Far Left Loons” in the media but really speaking tohimself.
June 3rd, 2009 at 10:46 amIf he really believed he did nothing wrong he would have condemned the murder and moved on. Instead Oreilly spent most of the night focused soley on Tiller, even brought in other anaylists to help him feel better about himself. Then contiuned to discuss Tiller the next night. He’s struggling inside and that conflict is showing. What struck me at the end of this segment was the look in Oreilly’s eyes. You can easily see the guilt.
Proud Says:
The Republic of Obama Stupidity Says:
Sorry, dude… try as you may, but that’s simply too silly for words.
Typical libtard response, you cannot refute so you attack.
***
the coward’s defense against an “attack”.
do you want to cry on laura’s shoulder
or michelle’s?
***
June 3rd, 2009 at 10:48 amI just tried asking Malkin about the guy who shot the recruiters. She says he’s “left-wing” but doesn’t offer any proof of that accusation. Since she disabled registration on her blog, I had to ask her on twitter. I’m guessing that I won’t get a response.
June 3rd, 2009 at 10:48 amHow many people has Code Pink killed you stuipid asshat? wha,whats that? Oh yeah, Code Pink has never killed anybody. Your stupidity is boundless. Just crawl back under your bed and cry you sniveling little fcking baby.
June 3rd, 2009 at 10:50 amC4Pee, you didn’t do so well on the verbal section of the SATs, did ya?
Oh, you haven’t taken them yet? Here’s a resource you may want to investigate.
June 3rd, 2009 at 10:50 amConservativeForProgress Says:
If blood is on Conservatives’ hands for exercising their First Amendment rights to point out that Dr. Tiller and his accomplice Warren Hern are late term baby killers, than just as much blood is on George Soros’ hands for funding CodePink which has vandalized, staged violent protests and stirred up hate against military recruitment centers.
***
nice straw man.
did you make it yourself?
or steal it from laura?
***
stop hiding behind her skirt.
BE A MAN.
:)
June 3rd, 2009 at 10:50 amIsn’t being pro-life before birth kind of like being pro-car before automobiles?
June 3rd, 2009 at 10:51 amOnce again, we see that the right-wing extremist cannot differentiate between George W. Bush and that which is not George W. Bush. Bush fills his very being. Bush is all and everything to this miserable groveler.
June 3rd, 2009 at 10:51 amangels81 Says
June 3rd, 2009 at 10:42 am
proud, Once again you can’t give us a link to were Olberman said he hated our troops, so you now change to Olberman bashed bush.
__________________________________________________________
Eh — “Proud” knows his argument is incredibly weak, so he’s just flinging as many turds as he can in random directions, vainly hoping some of them find a target.
If we wait for this troll to provide any kind of compelling argument that criticizing President Bush (an activity engaged in by many people, not just KO) would incite somebody to gun down a couple of soldiers outside a recruiting office, we’ll be waiting forever.
June 3rd, 2009 at 10:52 amConservativeForProgress Says:
Couple of points here:
1. Code Pink doesn’t have a television platform reaching millions of homes. O’Reilly does.
2. Using your logic, Fox News sponsors are complicit in Tiller’s murder because they bought airtime during O’Reilly’s show. I think you’d admit, that’s pretty shaky logic on your part.
3. Who has Code Pink murdered?
June 3rd, 2009 at 10:52 amEric Ragle Says:
I just tried asking Malkin about the guy who shot the recruiters. She says he’s “left-wing” but doesn’t offer any proof of that accusation. Since she disabled registration on her blog, I had to ask her on twitter. I’m guessing that I won’t get a response.
***
eric,
welcome to the world of
the cowardice of conservatism.
proud (who is scared to death of rt)
and cfp are on hand to provide examples.
:)
June 3rd, 2009 at 10:52 amConservativeForProgress Says:
The Far Left’s war on military recruiters is well documented.
There ya go. That’s what I was asking for, for starters. A few of those things what she lists (not many) use actual inflammatory/inciting language to blame military recruiters for Iraq.
Next: name a leading left-wing pundit or politician who has said any of those things. Somebody we can specifically blame, other than anonymous vandals.
.
Proud Says:
Are you serious or just ignorant. At your pleasure please feel free to look at any “special comment” Olberman made regarding Pres Bush. If that is not incitng hatred and violence then you are truly deluded.
If someone had assassinated Dubya or Cheney, you might have a point. But one thing Olbermann does well is make sure you know exactly who he’s mad at. He spares no words specifying the precise target of his anger.
Bush =/= “the military”
I find it odd that y’all don’t see that difference.
June 3rd, 2009 at 10:52 amproud never showed up to get educated in person
he’s a typical right wing pansy
June 3rd, 2009 at 10:53 amC4P,
June 3rd, 2009 at 10:54 amCodePink has staged violent protests? Does shouting and sometimes needing to be dragged come under your definition of violent?
Still waiting, CancerForRegress and Pwoud.
It really shouldn’t be that hard for you two twits to google exactly where Olbermann directed others to murder military recruiters, as well as the proof of where the shooter was “left-wing”.
Until you can, you’ve got nothing.
June 3rd, 2009 at 10:54 amZero.
Nada.
Zilch.
ConservativeForProgress Says:
If blood is on Conservatives’ hands for exercising their First Amendment rights to point out that Dr. Tiller and his accomplice Warren Hern are late term baby killers, than just as much blood is on George Soros’ hands for funding CodePink which has vandalized, staged violent protests and stirred up hate against military recruitment centers.
You really are insane, aren’t you? I thought you were just a stubborn unthinking little liar, but you’re clearly out of your mind.
Inciting violence is not covered by the First, moron. Try yelling “fire” in a crowded theater. If you choose to keep making this moronic “point”, please answer the question: where is the connection between the Left’s antiwar policies and an Islamic fundamentalist? Otherwise, just shut up.
June 3rd, 2009 at 10:54 amThe bigger part of this story is that it appears the FBI staked out Dr. Tiller like the goat in Jurassic Park I in order to try and catch bigger fish at Operation Rescue headquarters. Willful ignorance is not justification for allowing gov’t officials to let Dr. Tiller die in order to acheive a bigger goal. Sounds like they did, though. We have seen the enemy and it is us.
June 3rd, 2009 at 10:56 am2 terrorist acts, both committed by religious conservatives, both under direction from their own respective Taliban
and yet somehow, in the “minds” of CFP and Prod, this proves that liberals are the bad guys
too funny
sad
but funny
June 3rd, 2009 at 10:56 amIsn’t it about time we start calling the “pro-life” movement the “pro-fetus” movement? With these loons the value of life obviously ends at birth.
June 3rd, 2009 at 10:56 amOkay, Pwoud is just being extremely stupid now.
Wow, what a pathetic almost non-existent life it must have.
To gain recognition and attention by being an antagonistic troll?
That must suck.
June 3rd, 2009 at 10:57 amproud, so now that all your rants went down in flames, you are now throwing out that Obama ia a Muslim thing. You really are stupid, and funny to boot.
June 3rd, 2009 at 10:57 amConservativeForProgress Says
June 3rd, 2009 at 10:47 am
“…just as much blood is on George Soros’ hands for funding CodePink which has vandalized, staged violent protests and stirred up hate against military recruitment centers.”
_____________________________________________________________
I’m sure you can provide some evidence — ANY evidence — that the Little Rock gunman paid any attention at all to CodePink. Did he post on their blogsite? Did he have any of their literature?
While I’m not a fan of CodePink’s activities, I’m pretty sure they weren’t a factor here.
June 3rd, 2009 at 10:57 amProud Says:
A few more points here:
1. President Obama has never stopped using his middle name. There is a difference however when it is being using in a negative connotation such as was being done during the election to stoke anti-muslim fears in the less-educated or enlightened among us.
2. I find the last part of your statement pretty inflammatory but given the climate of this thread, it’s probably to be expected. I was end by asking once again how this man was spurred to action by left-wing influence.
June 3rd, 2009 at 10:58 amIf blood is on Conservatives’ hands for exercising their First Amendment rights to point out that Dr. Tiller and his accomplice Warren Hern are late term baby killers, than just as much blood is on George Soros’ hands for funding CodePink which has vandalized, staged violent protests and stirred up hate against military recruitment centers.
first off the blood is not on the hands of conservatives altogether. more specifically the pro-life movement, not all conservatives are pro-life… there really are some socially liberal, fiscal conservatives out there, but only the social crazies seem to talk.
secondly, the point is not to get rid of military recruiters, or the military, its to get them off college campuses. military recruiters frequently lie to kids, i know this from a friends personal experience, he was told that the only way he could immediately be an officer in the military was if he joined the ROTC during college
WRONG! if you have a college degree you will be an officer as well, but you won’t be anywhere near as likely to go to, i dunno afghanistan or iraq, if you weren’t in rotc.
the point is that some military recruiters manipulate college students and young people into joining the military.
i don’t think they should be allowed on high school campuses either.
its one thing if they’re there on career day, its another if they’re there all the time
see the difference in the movement?
pro-life want to get rid of all abortion doctors
the movement you’re speaking of only wants to remove them from college campuses so we don’t have trained professionals manipulating our kids into a dangerous situation.
June 3rd, 2009 at 10:58 am***
proud,
rt’s here.
:)
from proud’s link:
“With insane rumors suggesting he was some sort of Muslim Manchurian candidate, then-Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., and his campaign did everything they could to emphasize his Christianity and de-emphasize the fact that his father, Barack Obama Sr., was born Muslim.”
***
proud,
take a minute off from your fear
and actually read the article.
:)
June 3rd, 2009 at 10:59 amProud Says
June 3rd, 2009 at 10:53 am
I apologize, I was wrong, the killer in Arkansas was a Muslim and since your Dear Leader Barrack Hussein Obama ( He wants his middle name used now.) Has embraced his Muslim faith I will not disparage your hero for his brave deed against the infidels.
____________________________________________________________
OK — now you’re just frothing at the mouth. Give it up. You’ve got nothing, as this nonsense clearly demonstrates.
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:01 amIt’s really a form of cheap entertainment to watch trolls like proud and C4P try to throw off the crap they are covered with at anyone who stands nearby.
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:01 amPwoud Says
I apologize, I was wrong…
Nothing more needs be said, Pwoud.
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:01 amNothing more.
…
btw, another will known conservative
coward, newt gingrich, has just
apologized.
***
proud?
cfp?
your turn.
:)
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:02 amProd, when I quoted George Costanza, I figured you were sharp enough to recognize that “it’s not a lie if you believe it” meant that you could convince others of a lie if you convinced yourself it was true.
I didn’t think you’d believe that just believing in something false made it true. But that’s what seems to have happened.
I’ll take the blame for that; I was unclear. So let me make the point:
If something is factually false, your belief in it doesn’t somehow make it true.Case in point — the article you link is headlined “The Emergence of Obama’s Muslim Roots” (emphasis mine).
Yet you claim that it says he “Has embraced his Muslim faith“. Not the same thing at all. I’m sure you understand that now, right?
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:02 amI don’t know if anyone else caught this last night, but Fox ran the news update during the Greta program – the update reporter read the Tiller story referencing the arrest of Roeder while running video of the man accused of killing the Arkansas recruiter – gotta love those “mistakes” at Fox News.
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:02 amMaybe the reason a lot of people are opposed to the Iraq war is that they DO NOT want our soldiers killed.
Maybe some of the pro-war people like the idea of war even if it means our soldiers being killed.
Maybe Proud and C4P have it bass-ackwards, as usual.
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:04 amThe man being killed does not mean he was not a killer himself.
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:04 amIf that can be proven, then there is a possibility that others can be tried under the concept of accomplice liability, if there is a good prosecutor to try it, that is…
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:06 amThe Falafel Sexual Predator has a whole lot of credability.
Fcuk the Republic Fascist Party
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:07 amAll I want from O’Reilly in this case, for this slip of the tongue, is an apology. I understand it was a Freudian slip, but it was a tasteless one.
But I also want him to understand that this was the risk that he made with associating his name to “killer”. I wonder if the term “Tiller the Baby Killer” preexisted before O’Reilly’s abuse of the moniker.
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:08 amralph the wonder locust Says:
Yet you claim that it says he “Has embraced his Muslim faith”. Not the same thing at all. I’m sure you understand that now, right?
____________
Not a chance, ralphie… not a chance.
If you hadn’t noticed, Proud came to play sans helmet this morning.
Living dangerously… Life In The Stupid lane™
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:08 amAnd JohnM shows up with a powerful refutation of an argument no one made.
Well done, JohnM! Here’s a cookie.
…okay, it’s half a cookie. C4Pee and Prod got into the box earlier.
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:08 amI dont think O’Reilly cares about this issue other than co-opting grass-roots extremism for ratings.
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:09 amThe man being killed does not mean he was not a killer himself.
you’re right, its the laws of our country the mean he wasn’t a killer.
he did nothing against the law
the movement that killed him on the other hand did a great deal to disrespect our nations constitution.
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:09 amKeith Says:
——————————————————————————–
Maybe the reason a lot of people are opposed to the Iraq war is that they DO NOT want our soldiers killed.
Maybe the reason a lot of people are opposed to abortion is because they do not want our babies killed.
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:10 amJohnM Says:
You’re certainly entitled to your opinion regarding when human life begins. I think it’s safe to say that the disagreements over abortion are long and deep and will likely never be completely healed.
But the fact remains, Dr. Tiller’s practice was legal. It was protected by law. He was murdered for doing his job.
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:11 amJohnM Says:
The man being killed does not mean he was not a killer himself.
***
the man who reads his fortune
from his fortune cookie
is an idiot.
***
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:11 amralph the wonder locust Says:
——————————————————————————–
JohnM Says:
The man being killed does not mean he was not a killer himself.
And JohnM shows up with a powerful refutation of an argument no one made.
Well done, JohnM! Here’s a cookie.
…okay, it’s half a cookie. C4Pee and Prod got into the box earlier.
Actually it was in response to O’Reilly’s comment calling him Dr. Killer, you know what this thread is about.
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:11 amJohnM, what do you think about the lies told by the previous admin, connecting 911 to Iraq, and all the innocent late term abortions caused by bombs?
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:12 amI am “pro-life” and don’t want “to get rid of all abortion doctors.” I just want them to quit performing most abortions. CopePink on the other hand, wants to get rid of military recruiting stations everywhere (including downtown locations they have protested) not just “on college campuses,” as you allege. E.g. “No Military Predators In Our Town Campaign.”
if you’re going to cite yourself as a specific example, i’ll say this… a great many people in the organization do want to get rid of all abortion dr.s.
just because you don’t doesn’t mean there aren’t a lot that do.
i think there are a lot more people who are opposed to college recruiting on student campuses but not opposed to it in general then there are pro-lifers who are in favor of allowing anyone who practices abortion to maintain their standing as a dr.
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:12 amConservativeForProgress Says:
I’ve know several females who have had to get abortions and guess what? All of them were pro-life, and remain pro-life. I think the difference here is that you want the doctors to stop performing abortions whereas I want the climate in America to change so that they won’t have to perform abortions.
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:13 amThat may be; I don’t know the specifics of the positions ou describe.
But “getting rid of abortion doctors” essentially means killing them as Scott Roeder did.
“Getting rid of military recruiting stations” simply means “getting rid of military recruiting stations”. It doesn’t mean “kill the recruiters”, as you would have us believe.
Seriously, Pee… look into that SAT Prep I linked to. It might help your critical thinking skills, which at this point are sorely lacking.
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:13 amJohnM Says:
Keith Says:
——————————————————————————–
Maybe the reason a lot of people are opposed to the Iraq war is that they DO NOT want our soldiers killed.
Maybe the reason a lot of people are opposed to abortion is because they do not want our babies killed.
***
your babies?
yeah, we know how much you love
paying child support and taking care of
your babies, “dad”.
:|
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:13 amConservativeForProgress Says:
CopePink on the other hand[...]n Our Town Campaign.”
_____________
One more time… since you seem to be even slower than usual this morning.
No. One. Has. Called. For The. Death. Our Troops. Like. The. Way. Your Loons. Were. Out. For. Tiller.
See? All one syllable words, except for Tiller’s name. Feel free to eat the paste. We buy the “safe kind”… just for you, cupcake.
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:13 amOkay, I’m sure this will be ignored, but since we now have the “pro-lifers” on board, please explain how you’ve felt the last 8 years, when abortions were still legal?
And, just for the record, not one abortion “killed” a baby.
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:13 amTerminated a viable fetus, perhaps.
But at no time was a baby purposely killed after birth.
Who did Jesus kill JohnM?
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:13 amConservativeForProgress,
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:14 amCodePink wants to get rid of recruiting so our youngsters DO NOT get killed. Especially in an unnecessary war based on 935 lies. It is Bush and Cheney who got 4300 of them killed.
Really. Can you show me where someone made the argument “the fact that Dr. Tiller was killed means that he was not a killer himself”?
Thanks.
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:15 amEric Ragle Says:
——————————————————————————–
JohnM Says:
The man being killed does not mean he was not a killer himself.
You’re certainly entitled to your opinion regarding when human life begins. I think it’s safe to say that the disagreements over abortion are long and deep and will likely never be completely healed.
But the fact remains, Dr. Tiller’s practice was legal. It was protected by law. He was murdered for doing his job.
The law may be in his side for his murders, but it is pretty tough to say that late term abortions are not the abortion of a life. The baby at 25-30 weeks under any definition is alive Brain activity and a heart beat.
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:15 amConservativeForProgress, your like a frightened, hysterical, old woman who doesn’t make any sense.
What makes you so afraid?
My guess would be life itself.
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:15 amJohnM Says:
ralph the wonder locust Says:
——————————————————————————–
JohnM Says:
The man being killed does not mean he was not a killer himself.
And JohnM shows up with a powerful refutation of an argument no one made.
Well done, JohnM! Here’s a cookie.
…okay, it’s half a cookie. C4Pee and Prod got into the box earlier.
Actually it was in response to O’Reilly’s comment calling him Dr. Killer, you know what this thread is about.
***
you’re so vague.
we thought you were off your meds.
but now you’re back on track.
anymore profound thoughts?
you know, about the thread?
:)
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:15 amJohnM writes: Maybe the reason a lot of people are opposed to abortion is because they do not want our babies killed.
Quite the collective statement. If the far right is so concerned then where is the continuing support for our children?
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:15 amCode Pink? ROTFLMAO. Pull rubbish out of your arse much? I was going to say these conservative “debaters” are like chimpanzees at the zoo throwing their feces against their cages, but that comparison would be an insult to chimpanzees. No doubt debating a chimpanzee would be more enlightening and productive than debating the right wing apologists of lunatic murderers, C4P and Proud. As for the recruiting comparison — flailing about does not maks a persuasive argument.
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:16 amSo, how many adoptions can we expect you to make, of all races?
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:16 amI’d call him an imbecile ralphie, but I’m afraid he wouldn’t understand.
Too may syllables.
Moron? How about moran?
Nope… still too many.
Idjit?
Well… it’s spelled wrong… but it is the commonly accepted spelling amongst trolls.
Then Idjit it is.
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:16 amExactly, Eric at #137.
Pro choice does NOT mean pro abortion!
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:16 amMaybe the reason a lot of people are opposed to abortion is because they do not want our babies killed.
What, you want Cheney to go without breakfast?
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:16 amI wonder how many of OUR babies JohnM has adopted
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:17 amJohnM Says:
The law may be in his side for his murders, but it is pretty tough to say that late term abortions are not the abortion of a life. The baby at 25-30 weeks under any definition is alive Brain activity and a heart beat.
__________
And what do you do when the pregnancy endangers the life of the mother or the baby is hopelessly deformed?
You’re an hideously dishonest fraud.
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:17 amWhat makes you so afraid?
years of daddy having his way with him, no doubt.
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:18 amhellinabucket Says:
——————————————————————————–
JohnM writes: Maybe the reason a lot of people are opposed to abortion is because they do not want our babies killed.
Quite the collective statement. If the far right is so concerned then where is the continuing support for our children?
You are right, churches have never helped out abandoned children or helped families with food and clothing for their children. That argument is complete crap.
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:18 amKeith Says:
CodePink has staged violent protests? Does shouting and sometimes needing to be dragged come under your definition of violent?
This goes back to the way wingnuts think. Any negative-sounding word is associated with their opponents, and all positive-sounding words are associated with them. Thus, in C4P’s mind, the left wing is violent, as well as greedy and war-mongering. The meaning of the words doesn’t matter, as he’s not using the parts of the brain that actually parses meaning.
.
Proud Says:
I apologize, I was wrong, the killer in Arkansas was a Muslim and since your Dear Leader Barrack Hussein Obama ( He wants his middle name used now.) Has embraced his Muslim faith I will not disparage your hero for his brave deed against the infidels.
Your link does what now? Did you read the words on it?
.
misscoleopteramolly Says:
I’m sure you can provide some evidence — ANY evidence — that the Little Rock gunman paid any attention at all to CodePink. Did he post on their blogsite? Did he have any of their literature?
Good point. It’s known that the guy who shot Dr. Tiller was reading Operation Rescue websites, as he commented there.
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:18 amI wonder how many of OUR babies JohnM has adopted
The one’s he claims are for welfare checks?
A WHOLE BUNCH, YOU BETCHA!
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:18 amTypical illogic, hate the parent and the doctor and pretend to care about fetuses only when they are not yet born, and after they are born, forget them, no welfare, no SCHIP, let em eat cake.
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:18 amJohnM,
You see, CodePink was getting blamed by trolls here for wanting our soldiers killed, while the opposite is true. They DO NOT want our soldiers killed. Some anti-abortionists may not have wanted Dr. Tiller killed, but some certainly did—especially Army of God!!!
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:20 amThe Republic of Hymenoptera Stupidity Says:
——————————————————————————–
JohnM Says:
The law may be in his side for his murders, but it is pretty tough to say that late term abortions are not the abortion of a life. The baby at 25-30 weeks under any definition is alive Brain activity and a heart beat.
__________
And what do you do when the pregnancy endangers the life of the mother or the baby is hopelessly deformed?
You’re an hideously dishonest fraud.
Feel free choose which life to take and which life is worth keeping. Also should we just kill anybody that is born deformed? Or is it only okay a few weeks before they are born.
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:21 amI would have a modest amount of respect for any of the neconbloggers here if they could come to terms with the conflict within the GOP. They are all for staying out of people’s privacy unless they want to be in people’s private lives. Then they don’t want to fund the consequences for the outcome if they got there way in being in people’s private lives.
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:21 amNoMoreBush Says:
I was going to say these conservative “debaters” are like chimpanzees at the zoo throwing their feces against their cages, but that comparison would be an insult to chimpanzees.
No, that would be an insult to feces.
PEACE
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:21 amCFP is NOT pro-life, he is anti-choice
if he was pro-life, he wouldn’t support the right wingers who kill out of fear
of course, he wouldn’t be a right winger if he wasn’t a scared little pansy
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:22 amContinuing support means adoption JohnM, not giving them some clothes. They need homes and parents
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:22 amJohnM Says:
No, it’s not tough to say. Arguing over abortion is going to be fruitless for both of us. We should agree that Tiller’s murder cannot be justified and that it was done out of hate. His job was legal and necessary. His murder was incited by hatred.
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:22 amYa know, I haven’t seen this debated yet (and probably won’t with the trolls here), but I’m curious, how many fetuses were “saved” with the murder of DR. Tiller, practicing Christian?
Because, certainly he was not the only doctor performing abortions in Kansas.
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:22 amMy bet is the woman that has made the decision to have an abortion before the murder, will still have the abortion!
DNFP Says:
——————————————————————————–
I wonder how many of OUR babies JohnM has adopted
The one’s he claims are for welfare checks?
A WHOLE BUNCH, YOU BETCHA!
I have one adopted son and I also ran a foster home out of my house with my wife for 8 years.
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:24 amJohnm. remember seperation of church and state? Eliminate abortions and expect churches to pick up the slack for the additional mouths to feed?
Do you expect insurance companies to payout when the mother and the baby die because of complications that were known to be resolved by a late term abortion? Are you willing to have your insurance increase to cover this?
The argument isn’t crap. The arguer is. And I don’t see any toilet paper hangin off of me.
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:24 amIf its legal its not murder. Its why Reoder is looking at life in prison.
Now lets talk about our troops and the tens if not hundreds of thousands killed in Iraq and Afghanistan for a war of choice. Where it was known no WMD existed and no ties to 911.
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:25 amJohnM Says:
hellinabucket Says:
——————————————————————————–
JohnM writes: Maybe the reason a lot of people are opposed to abortion is because they do not want our babies killed.
Quite the collective statement. If the far right is so concerned then where is the continuing support for our children?
You are right, churches have never helped out abandoned children or helped families with food and clothing for their children. That argument is complete crap.
***
you are contradicting yourself.
you are confused.
***
churches do help out.
liberals ones.
then this conservative man
shows up at their door
and shoots the children.
:)
his name is james adkisson
and he was a big fan of
bernard goldberg.
you can read it here.
:|
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:25 amJohnM Says:
So?
My mother was alive and kicking when we began administering hospice care in which a person basically overdoses on morphine.
Not a pleasant experience in the least to have witnessed, but necessary in light of her terminal condition.
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:25 am——————————————————————————–
hellinabucket Says:
——————————————————————————–
Johnm. remember seperation of church and state? Eliminate abortions and expect churches to pick up the slack for the additional mouths to feed?
Do you expect insurance companies to payout when the mother and the baby die because of complications that were known to be resolved by a late term abortion? Are you willing to have your insurance increase to cover this?
The argument isn’t crap. The arguer is. And I don’t see any toilet paper hangin off of me.
So let them die because of money? Wow!
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:26 amIt’s tough to even watch Dildoreilly. That self-rigtheous pig makes me physically ill. I think he’s evil and complicit in the Tiller murder, the Iraq War, etc… He’s no different than Roeder, except he didn’t pull the trigger.
I also don’t think he should be murdered! I guess that’s just the fundamental moral difference between “left” and “right”… human and inhuman is more like it.
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:26 amI have one adopted son and I also ran a foster home out of my house with my wife for 8 years.
The troll never stops lying.
Rule # 109 of trolling.
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:26 amBecause, certainly he was not the only doctor performing abortions in Kansas.
i might remember incorrectly, but i do believe he was one of only 3 dr’s in the country who provided late term abortions.
turns out most other dr’s don’t go down that path because they fear for their live’s and the well-being of their businesses if they were to offer that service.
who knows why they’d think that
go figure.
its much the same as the fear that most military recruiters face, thats why theres only a handful of them left… oh wait, thats not true at all
i think its pretty clear which movement is more violent and dangerous.
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:27 amJohnM Says:
DNFP Says:
——————————————————————————–
I wonder how many of OUR babies JohnM has adopted
The one’s he claims are for welfare checks?
A WHOLE BUNCH, YOU BETCHA!
I have one adopted son and I also ran a foster home out of my house with my wife for 8 years.
***
we have your word on that.
:|
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:27 amGood for you.
Who is going to adopt the other 59,999,999 newborns?
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:28 amJohnM Says:
The law may be in his side for his murders, but it is pretty tough to say that late term abortions are not the abortion of a life. The baby at 25-30 weeks under any definition is alive Brain activity and a heart beat.
“Human life” starts before conception. Zygotes have human DNA and are alive. But you might as well picket hair and nail salons for cutting short human life, since hair and fingernails fit that description also.
Rodents have brain activity and heart beats, but mousetraps are also legal. The things you point to only demonstrate that a fetus is an animal, with autonomic systems and reflexes.
But personhood is another story entirely. It isn’t a matter of opinion either. At the minimum, a human would have to be able to form a neural network in order to have even a rudimentary mind. Prior to birth, fetuses’ brain cells are individually wrapped in a protein coating, making this impossible. The coating starts to shed from the brain cells triggered by the birth trauma and neurons come on line connecting into networks according to the baby’s sensory experience.
Infant physiology is really weird; they seem almost like alien creatures in many respects. The point is, you can’t assume that they’re just tiny little people who happen to be either inside or outside a womb.
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:28 amSo let them die because of money? Wow!
what do you think the iraq war was about.
you don’t seem to have a problem with that.
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:30 amArent wars, really, much about money and resources?
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:30 amJohnM Says:
——————————————————————————–
hellinabucket Says:
——————————————————————————–
Johnm. remember seperation of church and state? Eliminate abortions and expect churches to pick up the slack for the additional mouths to feed?
Do you expect insurance companies to payout when the mother and the baby die because of complications that were known to be resolved by a late term abortion? Are you willing to have your insurance increase to cover this?
The argument isn’t crap. The arguer is. And I don’t see any toilet paper hangin off of me.
So let them die because of money? Wow!
***
do you put words in your “adopted” son’s mouth too?
nice “dad”.
…
:)
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:30 amIt’s a simple blog johnny. I’m not going to have a straw man argument with you on all the points involved. That’s just one of many. I’m sure you can wrap your head around that.
Abortion is legal. Including the type that the late Dr. Tiller performed. Scott Roeder performed an illegal act.
We are a nation of laws. Not a nation led by fear.
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:30 amhellinabucket Says:
——————————————————————————–
It’s a simple blog johnny. I’m not going to have a straw man argument with you on all the points involved. That’s just one of many. I’m sure you can wrap your head around that.
Abortion is legal. Including the type that the late Dr. Tiller performed. Scott Roeder performed an illegal act.
We are a nation of laws. Not a nation led by fear.
Of course Scott Roeder performed an illegal act. Who said he didn’t. That does not mean O’Reilly is wrong in calling him Dr. Killer. He did kill babies.
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:32 amJohnM Says:
Maybe the reason a lot of people are opposed to abortion is because they do not want our babies killed.
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:10 am
_____________
If you don’t want your baby killed, don’t kill your baby. Problem solved. Why do you feel the need to dictate what other people do with their babies?
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:33 amJohnM Says:
So let them die because of money? Wow!
One thing you guys don’t seem to be able to wrap your heads around – all reasonable people are against abortion. It’s true! If somebody says there should be more abortions, they’re just talking out their ass or trying to shock you. Abortions are regrettable, sad things.
But that does not mean they should be illegal.
Methods proven to work in reducing the instances of abortion include comprehensive sex education and access to contraception. Until you wingnuts switch sides on either of those issues, all of your “I hate abortion” talk is just that – talk. You don’t give a crap about abortion or else you’d do anything you could to prevent them, even if that meant talking to your kids about how sex works and making sure they could get to a condom. If you really believed that babies were being murdered, one would think you could manage to do that much. But if you won’t do that, then I don’t want to hear any more about your little “moral crusade” which merely consists of legislating other people’s lady parts in order to control and subjugate them.
You are not pro-life. You are not anti-abortion. You’re just pro-criminalizing-abortion.
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:33 amDr. Tiller NEVER KILLED A BABY, JohnM.
Until you can grasp your little mind around that, you bring nothing to the argument.
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:34 am——————————————————————————–
Xisithrus Says:
——————————————————————————–
So let them die because of money? Wow!
Arent wars, really, much about money and resources?
Yes often times they are. How exactly does that make aborting babies for financial reasons okay>
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:34 amYes often times they are. How exactly does that make aborting babies for financial reasons okay>
why do you care about the “life” of a fetus more than the life of an 18 year old soldier who died for money?
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:34 amDRxJapanese Beetle Says:
——————————————————————————–
Dr. Tiller NEVER KILLED A BABY, JohnM.
Until you can grasp your little mind around that, you bring nothing to the argument.
He took human life, whether you want to call them babies or fetuses does not change that.
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:34 amJohnM,
Good for you for adopting. That’s really great. You should be commended for that. But surely we can agree that not enough is being done or supported by the right to make abortion unnecessary.
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:34 amJohnM says: So let them die because of money? Wow!
18,000 die in the USA every year due to lack of healthcare. Not in any other developed country in the world—-just the USA.
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:34 amKeith Says:
——————————————————————————–
JohnM says: So let them die because of money? Wow!
18,000 die in the USA every year due to lack of healthcare. Not in any other developed country in the world—-just the USA.
Any official stats on that or are you just making it up as you go?
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:35 amEric Ragle Says:
——————————————————————————–
JohnM,
Good for you for adopting. That’s really great. You should be commended for that. But surely we can agree that not enough is being done or supported by the right to make abortion unnecessary.
How so? Communities are very willing to help out children and I think that is proven all across the country regardless of political affiliation.
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:37 amJohnM Says:
He took human life, whether you want to call them babies or fetuses does not change that.
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:34 am
____________
So?
What makes it wrong to kill an innocent human life in the womb, but okay to drown an innocent human life at GITMO?
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:37 amJohnM Says:
hellinabucket Says:
——————————————————————————–
It’s a simple blog johnny. I’m not going to have a straw man argument with you on all the points involved. That’s just one of many. I’m sure you can wrap your head around that.
Abortion is legal. Including the type that the late Dr. Tiller performed. Scott Roeder performed an illegal act.
We are a nation of laws. Not a nation led by fear.
Of course Scott Roeder performed an illegal act. Who said he didn’t. That does not mean O’Reilly is wrong in calling him Dr. Killer. He did kill babies.
***
this needs a question mark (?)
s/b “Who said he didn’t?”
***
your “son” cannot count on you
to help him with his homework.
:\
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:38 amcalavzma Says:
——————————————————————————–
Yes often times they are. How exactly does that make aborting babies for financial reasons okay>
why do you care about the “life” of a fetus more than the life of an 18 year old soldier who died for money?
I don’t care more about an unborn baby more than an 18 year old. The key difference to me is choice. The 18 year old chose to join the military and defend our country, while the unborn baby had the choice made for him.
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:38 amJohnM Says:
Feel free choose which life to take and which life is worth keeping. Also should we just kill anybody that is born deformed? Or is it only okay a few weeks before they are born.
__________
You didn’t answer the question. Which means you don’t have a real answer.
Sorry… you’re a fraud.
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:38 amAny official stats on that or are you just making it up as you go?
is an organization of physicians good enough for you?
http://www.pnhp.org/news/2008/january/make_that_22000_uni.php
the numbers are actually more staggering
137,000 people died from insufficient health care coverage between 2000 and 2006!
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:39 amThey are babies when they breath on their own, when they have their umbilical cords cut. And yes, sad as it is, with costs so high people cant afford more children. Could you afford to adopt more children?
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:39 amThe Republic of Hymenoptera Stupidity Says:
——————————————————————————–
JohnM Says:
Feel free choose which life to take and which life is worth keeping. Also should we just kill anybody that is born deformed? Or is it only okay a few weeks before they are born.
__________
You didn’t answer the question. Which means you don’t have a real answer.
Sorry… you’re a fraud.
I did answer your question. Nobody should choose which life is worth keeping and which is worth terminating. Also I don’t think that deformed babies should be killed inside or outside the womb.
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:40 amJohnM Says:
Eric Ragle Says:
——————————————————————————–
JohnM,
Good for you for adopting. That’s really great. You should be commended for that. But surely we can agree that not enough is being done or supported by the right to make abortion unnecessary.
How so? Communities are very willing to help out children and I think that is proven all across the country regardless of political affiliation.
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:37 am Recommend (0) | Report Abuse
***
no proof of that.
no proof that you have an “adopted son”.
no proof that you have a “foster home”.
no details, no evidence.
nothing.
00
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:41 amJohnM Says:
Feel free to correct me here but this is the current right-wing rhetoric:
1. Welfare is bad
2. Universal healthcare is bad
3. Sex education is bad
4. Handing out free condoms to those most likely to be having unprotected sex is bad
Tell me how opposing any of that helps reduce the amount of abortions.
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:41 amJohnM Says:
The Republic of Hymenoptera Stupidity Says:
——————————————————————————–
JohnM Says:
Feel free choose which life to take and which life is worth keeping. Also should we just kill anybody that is born deformed? Or is it only okay a few weeks before they are born.
__________
You didn’t answer the question. Which means you don’t have a real answer.
Sorry… you’re a fraud.
I did answer your question. Nobody should choose which life is worth keeping and which is worth terminating. Also I don’t think that deformed babies should be killed inside or outside the womb.
***
you’re choosing for someone else.
you’re deciding for them.
that’s socialism, isn’t it?
you’re a socialist.
:)
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:42 amAnd just how much did you make a month running a foster home?
Why didnt you adopt them instead?
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:42 amIt’s also self serving hypocrisy…
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:42 amJohnM
You seem to be under the mistaken impression (no doubt because the images and blatant lies have been shoved down your throat by many right-wing propaganda sources) that late-term abortions are performed at the whim of the mother, who, apparently in you world, wakes up after carrying her child for 7 or 8 months and says “Oops, I changed my mind about the whole ‘mothering’ thing….fcuk adoption.”
That just shows a total ignorance of the reality of the situation. Again, I can’t say I blame you for your ignorance, as those that you’ve most likely been listening to have been pushing lies for so long. The reality is that late-term abortions are not elective procedures. That is illegal. They are procedures that are performed when the life of the mother is at risk or the viability of the fetus is nonexistant. Examples – the fetus dies in utero, which can cause severe and potentially deadly infections in the mother. That fetus has to be aborted to save the mother’s life, but it is not a termination of life, because the fetus is dead. In most hospitals, you can’t get a procedure like that done, because even a rumor that “late-term abortions” are taking place and Dr. Whoever is performing them paints a target on that doctor’s back, just like it did Dr. Tiller.
I appreciation your concern for the lives of babies, but you need to realize that you have a severely poor grasp of the reality of the late-term abortion situation, and the truth of the matter is that the incredibly few number of doctors like Dr. Tiller have saved the lives of numerous women, and if you’re truely pro-life, their lives should mean something to you, too. And frankly, their lives should mean more than that of a dead or dying fetus.
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:42 amJohnM Says:
Nobody should choose which life is worth keeping and which is worth terminating.
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:40 am
______________
So you feel that we should never again send our soldiers into battle and never again drop bombs on suspected Taliban insurgents?
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:43 amcalavzma Says:
——————————————————————————–
Any official stats on that or are you just making it up as you go?
is an organization of physicians good enough for you?
http://www.pnhp.org/news/2008/january/make_that_22000_uni.php
the numbers are actually more staggering
137,000 people died from insufficient health care coverage between 2000 and 2006!
Just as I thought estimated numbers, without any real data to show this. There is no way to determine how many of these estimate deaths would have occured with insurance. So your argument here is not valid.
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:43 amXisithrus Says:
And just how much did you make a month running a foster home?
Why didnt you adopt them instead?
***
perhaps he has nothing more to say on that
subject because it takes time to make this
stuff up.
…
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:44 am“In 2004 for every thousand babies born in the state, 9.7 died before their first birthday.
In 2005 the number of deaths jumped to 11.4 per thousand – an increase of nearly 18 percent. That means 65 more babies died.
In the heart of the Mississippi Delta – one of the poorest parts of the nation and overwhelmingly African American – infant death rates are even higher.
For whites in Mississippi, the 2005 infant death rate was 6.6 per thousand, around the national average.”
Did someone mention “letting babies die because of money”?
Roy Mitchell heads a Christian health advocacy group in Jackson. He says what did change two years ago in Mississippi was access to health care.
“We’ve implemented some Medicaid eligibility guidelines that are highly restrictive,” Mitchell said.
Mississippi’s Governor, Haley Barbour, was elected in 2004 after promising to slash Medicaid costs. By the end of 2005 the number of people on Medicaid in Mississippi had been cut by 19 percent.
I agree, JohnM. Letting infants die because of money is a hideous legacy.
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:45 amJohnM Says:
calavzma Says:
——————————————————————————–
Any official stats on that or are you just making it up as you go?
is an organization of physicians good enough for you?
http://www.pnhp.org/news/2008/january/make_that_22000_uni.php
the numbers are actually more staggering
137,000 people died from insufficient health care coverage between 2000 and 2006!
Just as I thought estimated numbers, without any real data to show this. There is no way to determine how many of these estimate deaths would have occured with insurance. So your argument here is not valid.
***
and suddenly he doesn’t really care about “life” anymore.
suddenly they’re just “estimates”.
:|
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:45 am05/22/2002 – Updated 04:54 AM ET
18,000 deaths blamed on lack of insurance
By Steve Sternberg, USA TODAY
WASHINGTON — More than 18,000 adults in the USA die each year because they are uninsured and can’t get proper health care, researchers report in a landmark study released Tuesday.
The 193-page report, “Care Without Coverage: Too Little, Too Late,” examines the plight of 30 million — one in seven — working-age Americans whose employers don’t provide insurance and who don’t qualify for government medical care.
About 10 million children lack insurance; elderly Americans are covered by Medicare.
It is the second in a planned series of six reports by the Institute of Medicine (IOM) examining the impact of the nation’s fragmented health system. The IOM is a non-profit organization of experts that advises Congress on health issues.
Overall, the researchers say, 18,314 people die in the USA each year because they lack preventive services, a timely diagnosis or appropriate care.
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:45 amSince Proud2BStupid won’t tell you guys where he lifted that crap about Keith Olbermann being responsible for the incident regarding the murdered soldier.
It was first spouted by John Gibson, then repeated by the morons at Crapper 1 and Crapper 2 (Futt Bace and JB$ sites, respectively) then Billdo piled on.
To deflect from Billdo’s responsibility in the murder of Dr. Tiller.
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:46 amI think the number is actually closer to 20,000…but to people like JohnM, what’s another 2,000 anyway…perhaps in the conservative mindset they died because they failed to exercise personal responsibility to get better care…
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:46 amJust as I thought estimated numbers, without any real data to show this. There is no way to determine how many of these estimate deaths would have occured with insurance. So your argument here is not valid.
you can’t have exact numbers for how many people were denied health care you idiot. they weren’t recorded.
its clear that you will accept no statistics as almost all statistics on a national level are estimations
you can deny it, but you would be wrong
its impossible to not estimate for the entire nation, to expect more is an idiots philosophy.
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:46 am“Nobody should choose which life is worth keeping and which is worth terminating.”
So, you’re against the death penalty, in support of social programs like universal healthcare that prevents the death of people just because they are poor, in favor of abortions that save the life of the mother, against all forms of war or military action, and a vegan, right? If all of what is on this list is not true, then your statement is remarkably and stunningly hypocritical.
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:47 amJohnM Says:
Just as I thought estimated numbers, without any real data to show this. There is no way to determine how many of these estimate deaths would have occured with insurance. So your argument here is not valid.
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:43 am
__________
Unfortunately, current technology does not allow scientists to reanimate all those who died, provide them with proper health care, and use them as a control group. So, no, it is not possible to obtain the ridiculous standard of proof you require for that statistic.
You’re an idiot.
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:47 amWhen the right wing comes out against wars then maybe I will believe the pro-life canard. Until then thats all it is.
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:48 amXisithrus Says:
——————————————————————————–
And just how much did you make a month running a foster home?
Why didnt you adopt them instead?
I did not do it for the money (it really isn’t too much). Each child that we had in our care we found a home for permenantly. We didn’t adopt becuase we had two kids ourselves and felt our family was complete at 3.
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:49 amI think the number is actually closer to 20,000…but to people like JohnM, what’s another 2,000 anyway…perhaps in the conservative mindset they died because they failed to exercise personal responsibility to get better care…
if you’ll check out the link i provided
you can see that between 2000 and 2006 deaths per year rose from 18,000 to 22,000
but johnm doesnt believe these people are dieing because its an estimation
but he’ll happily accept the estimations of how many fetuses are aborted who wouldn’t have been aborted naturally. a very high percentage of pregnancies are terminated naturally
but johnm can’t think past step one
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:50 amchiroptera toasterhead Says:
——————————————————————————–
JohnM Says:
Just as I thought estimated numbers, without any real data to show this. There is no way to determine how many of these estimate deaths would have occured with insurance. So your argument here is not valid.
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:43 am
__________
Unfortunately, current technology does not allow scientists to reanimate all those who died, provide them with proper health care, and use them as a control group. So, no, it is not possible to obtain the ridiculous standard of proof you require for that statistic
So you are saying that you don’t know how many die each year from no health care.
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:50 amJohnM Says:
So you are saying that you don’t know how many die each year from no health care.
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:50 am
____________
No, I’m saying that you’re a moron.
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:51 amcalavzma Says:
——————————————————————————–
I think the number is actually closer to 20,000…but to people like JohnM, what’s another 2,000 anyway…perhaps in the conservative mindset they died because they failed to exercise personal responsibility to get better care…
if you’ll check out the link i provided
you can see that between 2000 and 2006 deaths per year rose from 18,000 to 22,000
but johnm doesnt believe these people are dieing because its an estimation
but he’ll happily accept the estimations of how many fetuses are aborted who wouldn’t have been aborted naturally. a very high percentage of pregnancies are terminated naturally
but johnm can’t think past step one
When have I said I accept the estimations of how many babies were aborted that would not be aborted naturally?
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:53 amWhen are you going to answer MY question, JohnM?
Are you pro-life, or are you just anti-abortion. Since some killing is apparently okay, who gets to make that decision, since you already stated that no one should get to choose which lives continue and which lives are terminated.
You have to provide an explanation for hypocrisy that bold.
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:53 amchiroptera toasterhead Says:
——————————————————————————–
JohnM Says:
So you are saying that you don’t know how many die each year from no health care.
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:50 am
____________
No, I’m saying that you’re a moron.
So you do know how many people die each year from no health care?
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:53 amSo you do know how many people die each year from no health care?
i can say with certainty that its somewhere between 16,000 and 24,000 people john.
because i understand how statistics work, you know
margin of error etc.
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:54 amSo you are saying that you don’t know how many die each year from no health care.
Attempting to prove a negative?
How many drunks drove last year, and weren’t arrested?
Sheesh!
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:54 amWith a comment like this, JohnM just forfeited any right to have his arguments taken seriously by anybody on this forum.
Of course, JohnM has forfeited this right several times before, and he just keeps coming back and acting like he has the right to be taken seriously.
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:54 amJohnM Says:
chiroptera toasterhead Says:
——————————————————————————–
JohnM Says:
Just as I thought estimated numbers, without any real data to show this. There is no way to determine how many of these estimate deaths would have occured with insurance. So your argument here is not valid.
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:43 am
__________
Unfortunately, current technology does not allow scientists to reanimate all those who died, provide them with proper health care, and use them as a control group. So, no, it is not possible to obtain the ridiculous standard of proof you require for that statistic
So you are saying that you don’t know how many die each year from no health care.
***
that must be the “compassionate conservatism”
george w. bush spoke so often about.
**
phony, transparent, cheap words.
no wonder movement conservatism is dying.
:|
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:54 amJohnM Says:
So you do know how many people die each year from no health care?
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:53 am
_______________
18,000-22,000.
Do you know how many terrorists and criminals are aborted each year?
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:55 amAll statistics are estimations, JohnM. ALL OF THEM. The reason why is easy – they take a sample population, get hard data for that sample, then extrapolate that data out to the whole population, thus making every single statistic you have ever seen, EVER, an estimation on some level, most likely on a major level.
Ignoring that fact doesn’t make your point, or dilute the points of others, it just makes you seem ignorant and stubborn.
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:56 amYou mean miscarriage don’t you? There is no ‘natural’ abortion.
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:56 amI notice JohnM has conveniently ignored the report I offered about the state of Mississippi accepting higher rates of infant mortality among poor populations in order to cut its Medicare costs.
Since JohnM professes to be so appalled by “letting infants die because of money” one would have thought the article would elicit a more animated response from JohnM.
One would be wrong, apparently.
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:57 amAh, but I’ll bet he believes the military’s specious body counts…
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:57 amWhy do you keep ignoring my question, JohnM?
Is it because you know good and well you’ve been caught in a web of hypocrisy so deep you’ll never be able to talk your way out of it?
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:58 amJohnM and his ilk are simply trying to force their RELIGIOUS view that a fetus is a baby onto the rest of us
JohnM and his ilk are why we have separation of church and state
The state should not be controlled by religion
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:58 amJohnM Says:
When have I said I accept the estimations of how many babies were aborted that would not be aborted naturally?
You mean miscarriage don’t you? There is no ‘natural’ abortion.
that argument is just semantics… could an abortion not be an artificial miscarriage
oh yes it could
stick to the meaning of the words and not the words themselves and you won’t look like a fool
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:58 am…
ralph,
i’m a little pissed at you my friend.
i’ve never taken johnm seriously.
why? because he doesn’t take himself
seriously. his thoughts have been addled
from the very first comment he ever posted
and he’s being going down hill ever since.
i’m sure even his own “son” (notice how i put
that word in quotes) does not take him seriously either.
!!!
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:58 ampastcaring
No, they mean “spontaneous abortion” because that’s the medical term for a miscarriage. The term miscarriage is a layman’s term.
The premature end of a pregnany is an abortion, irrespective of the means of that end.
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:59 amsmidget Says:
——————————————————————————–
“Nobody should choose which life is worth keeping and which is worth terminating.”
So, you’re against the death penalty, in support of social programs like universal healthcare that prevents the death of people just because they are poor, in favor of abortions that save the life of the mother, against all forms of war or military action, and a vegan, right? If all of what is on this list is not true, then your statement is remarkably and stunningly hypocritical.
I am against the death penalty. I actually just got off of being a juror in a death penalty case because of that last week. Anyway, I don’t think we should have universal health care, but nobody can be turned away in an emergency in this country. At some point people need to take care of themselves. I think if a person is disabled or unable physically to work then we should provide them work. I am not pro war, but I believe that there are justifications for it. WWII is a great example of that because without it many more people would have died, but that is much different than killing a baby that has done nothing wrong and is not a threat to anybody. I am not a vegan, I don’t believe that cows should get the same classification as humans.
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:59 amI’m sure JohnM could ask Bill Bennett…
June 3rd, 2009 at 12:00 pmJohnM Says:
He took human life, whether you want to call them babies or fetuses does not change that.
You take human life when you clip your fingernails. They grow. There’s human DNA there. Human. Life. You took it.
.
Xisithrus Says:
And just how much did you make a month running a foster home?
Do not postulate that wingnuts’ claims of what they do in real life are true. Don’t even go down that road. They lie.
.
smidget Says:
So, you’re against the death penalty, in support of social programs like universal healthcare that prevents the death of people just because they are poor, in favor of abortions that save the life of the mother, against all forms of war or military action, and a vegan, right? If all of what is on this list is not true, then your statement is remarkably and stunningly hypocritical.
The interesting question is what’s the difference between that position and the others? What’s the similarity between the anti-abortion position and their stance on sex education and contraception? One answer: control of sexuality. That’s all they really care about. It’s the only consistent position across the entire social conservative platform.
June 3rd, 2009 at 12:01 pmElBruce Says:
——————————————————————————–
JohnM Says:
He took human life, whether you want to call them babies or fetuses does not change that.
You take human life when you clip your fingernails. They grow. There’s human DNA there. Human. Life. You took it.
Is this really where your arguments are going? You are not worth my time.
June 3rd, 2009 at 12:04 pmSo you admit then that some people DO have the right to determine who gets to live and who gets to die, as you admit that War is okay sometimes.
You still ignored the crux of the discussion – you didn’t say one word about being okay with abortion when the mother’s life is at risk. You have also determined that some forms of life are less valuable than others, so please explain how that same philosophy doesn’t extend to the life of the mother being more valuable than the possible life of a damaged fetus.
Of couse, admitting as much would be tanatmout to admitting that Dr. Tiller wasn’t a “baby killer” for performing late-term abortions as it has already been well established that late-term abortions are performed when the mother’s life is at risk, so I don’t expect you to be intellecutally honest enough to answer, but it would be nice if you addressed it, seeing as it’s directly on point.
June 3rd, 2009 at 12:04 pmIf we had brought in universal healthcare under Truman, then we would have saved about 1,100,000 lives and many trillions of dollars. Sorry, JohnM, I don’t know how many of those lives would have been pre-birth. I realize you think only pre-birth counts.
June 3rd, 2009 at 12:04 pmp.s., I find it very repulsive that you are quibbling over an exact number.
right wingers view pregnancy as a punishment for having sex
abortions make them angry because, in their “minds”, it removes the punishment
June 3rd, 2009 at 12:04 pmI am against the death penalty. I actually just got off of being a juror in a death penalty case because of that last week. Anyway, I don’t think we should have universal health care, but nobody can be turned away in an emergency in this country. At some point people need to take care of themselves. I think if a person is disabled or unable physically to work then we should provide them work. I am not pro war, but I believe that there are justifications for it. WWII is a great example of that because without it many more people would have died, but that is much different than killing a baby that has done nothing wrong and is not a threat to anybody. I am not a vegan, I don’t believe that cows should get the same classification as humans.
don’t forget statistics john
you’re also against statistics, you live in a world where there are no answers
June 3rd, 2009 at 12:05 pmthere are answers in his world, clazma
he just doesn’t understand them
June 3rd, 2009 at 12:07 pm“i am against the death penalty”.
how many state executioners were
murdered inside of their churches
by anti-death penalty advocates?
***
how many “pro life” advocates voted for george w. bush?
:<)
June 3rd, 2009 at 12:08 pmOh. The. Irony.
June 3rd, 2009 at 12:08 pmElBruce
Of course, but you’ll never get an anti-abortion advocate to admit to such things.
If one is truely anti-abortion (I consider myself to be as much, as I don’t approve of abortion-as-birth-control, but also don’t presume to tell others what’s right for them and thus support the pro-choice platform), then they would also be in favor of comprehensive sex-ed and healthcare policies that permit people to practice safe sex and proper pre-natal screening and care. The two concepts are 100% related to one another, yet someone like JohnM will pretend that just because no one gets turned away from the emergency room that this is equal to everyone having access to medical care while ignoring the fact that the emergency room that didn’t turn you away will send you a bill for services that you probably can’t pay after you leave, thus sending untold numbers of people into bankruptcy and driving up the cost of healthcare for the rest of us.
Wow, I got on a rant there. Good work, ElBruce! :)
June 3rd, 2009 at 12:08 pmwhy do right wingers want BIG GOVERNMENT to control the womb
they claim to be against that sort of thing
or is it just they want govt too busy messing with PEOPLE to keep corporations from ripping people off?
June 3rd, 2009 at 12:09 pmDid Fox News also “mistakenly” put a (D) next to the name of the Arkansas killer?
June 3rd, 2009 at 12:09 pmJohnM Says:
ElBruce Says:
——————————————————————————–
JohnM Says:
He took human life, whether you want to call them babies or fetuses does not change that.
You take human life when you clip your fingernails. They grow. There’s human DNA there. Human. Life. You took it.
Is this really where your arguments are going? You are not worth my time.
***
that’s right.
you have a “son” to raise.
and a “foster home” to run.
:|
June 3rd, 2009 at 12:09 pmBINGO!
June 3rd, 2009 at 12:09 pmGawd, sex with a right-winger must be incredibly boring.
June 3rd, 2009 at 12:11 pmThanks for clearing that up…
June 3rd, 2009 at 12:12 pmI hope that the Tiller family sues Billom, Fixed News and Operation Rescue.
As far as I am concerned the killing of Dr. Tiller is no different than the Charles Manson killings. Manson didn’t kill anyone, and yet he is in prison for life. His influence over his followers is what caused the killings.
June 3rd, 2009 at 12:12 pmConservativeForProgress Says:
When a right-wing Christian vigilante kills a late term abortionist, “Progressive” fingers race to point the finger at all Conservatives. Yet, when a left-wing Muslim vigilante kills military recruiters, he kills alone. The disparate treatment of the two cases is striking.
======================================================
Call it what it is, sh*t for brains, Terrorism. The idea that a domestic murderer is called a vigilante by wingnuts like you shows how stupid you really are. This is still the United States. Abortion is still legal, like it or not, wingnut. You and your ilk should all be treated no better than Osama Bin Laden and his terrorists are treated.
June 3rd, 2009 at 12:13 pmAs for the Muslim terrorist who shot the soldiers, there is no indication he is a liberal and your feable attempt to divert the energy from the whack job BillO is more evidence that you and yours are weak minded, sadistical, terrorists. Killing an OB\GYN is a crime and those who support it are accomplices.
No problem, pastcaring. I noticed that this thread kind of turned into a war of semantics, so I thought the clarifcation of a few basic and yet very commonly misused terms would be useful. :)
June 3rd, 2009 at 12:15 pmsmidget Says:
——————————————————————————–
So you admit then that some people DO have the right to determine who gets to live and who gets to die, as you admit that War is okay sometimes.
You still ignored the crux of the discussion – you didn’t say one word about being okay with abortion when the mother’s life is at risk. You have also determined that some forms of life are less valuable than others, so please explain how that same philosophy doesn’t extend to the life of the mother being more valuable than the possible life of a damaged fetus.
Of couse, admitting as much would be tanatmout to admitting that Dr. Tiller wasn’t a “baby killer” for performing late-term abortions as it has already been well established that late-term abortions are performed when the mother’s life is at risk, so I don’t expect you to be intellecutally honest enough to answer, but it would be nice if you addressed it, seeing as it’s directly on point.
Yes I guess there are sometimes when people can choose a life as my example of war. I don’t think if the mother’s life is in danger abortion should be legal. It is selfish to choose one innocent life over another. I would not expect a mother to choose their life over a 2 day old baby, why would it be different on the day the baby is born?
June 3rd, 2009 at 12:15 pmJohnM Says:
He took human life, whether you want to call them babies or fetuses does not change that.
What about all the lives Dr. Tiller saved? In order to perform a late term abortion in Kansas you have to prove it is to save the life of a mother or that something is terribly wrong with the fetus. This opinion has to be backed up by two other doctors.
So John, would you rather all those mothers be allowed to die? And when they die, the fetus dies too. Or, would you want to force a woman to carry a dead fetus to term?
If there is a god, some day your wife will have a pregnancy go horribly wrong and the only way to save your wife’s life would be through a late term abortion. And then would would undoubtedly sit by and watch your wife die. I pity your wife, if you have one.
June 3rd, 2009 at 12:17 pmOkay. IF, Lets say that, perhaps your wife got pregnant again, would you put, after birth, the baby up for adoption?
I have a feeling quite a few families meet with this problem
June 3rd, 2009 at 12:18 pmJohnM Says:
Yes I guess there are sometimes when people can choose a life as my example of war. I don’t think if the mother’s life is in danger abortion should be legal. It is selfish to choose one innocent life over another. I would not expect a mother to choose their life over a 2 day old baby, why would it be different on the day the baby is born?
Because, idiot, if the mother dies, the child will probably die too. Then there will be no life saved.
June 3rd, 2009 at 12:19 pmIt’s a good thing a MALE nutcase like you isn’t in a position to make that decision for FEMALES.
June 3rd, 2009 at 12:19 pmConservativeForProgress Says:
When a right-wing Christian vigilante kills a late term abortionist, “Progressive” fingers race to point the finger at all Conservatives. Yet, when a left-wing Muslim vigilante kills military recruiters, he kills alone. The disparate treatment of the two cases is striking.
1) What made the muslim who killed the soldier at the recruiting station “left wing”?
2) Please point to where the “left” vilified recruiters or the military on a daily basis calling them murderers.
Please, find a critical thinking course at your local JC. You really need to take one.
June 3rd, 2009 at 12:21 pmSo howcome peoples birth certificates dont have dates of conception?
I disagree JohnM, a life is self sustaining, when I get old and cant breathe on my own I want someone to pull the plug. Is that murder?
June 3rd, 2009 at 12:21 pmWhy does anybody bother with this JohnM idiot, or any right wing lunes for that matter? There is a reason they think the way they think, why they cling to the opinions they cling to, and why complete apes like O’Reilly and Hannity have jobs – because these people are fundamentally stupid… unintelligent, unreasonable, they lack common sense and the ability to rationalize and to make sound judgments on their own. There’s no use in fighting them. People like JohnM are what they are.
June 3rd, 2009 at 12:21 pmSo a woman should be forced to carry a dead fetus all the way to term and give birth to it because late-term abortions should be legal, no matter that it could very well kill her.
Great to see that you are the final word on who gets to live and who gets to die, and are claiming the right to make that decision for someone else.
I would not expect a woman to give up her life for her baby, either. I would expect a woman to make that choice on her own, without your input.
But anyway, thanks for clarifying your position of “no one has the right to determine which life is worth saving and which life is worth terminating except for me.”
June 3rd, 2009 at 12:22 pm“I think it’s important to note that her last words in that video weren’t inaudible. She said, “it did.” And that is a valid remark to make for O’Reilly’s heartless and ignorant attempt at agreeing with her.”
Yes, she did indeed say “it did”.
O’Reilly didn’t even have to enough guts to acknowledge that he had said Dr. Killer. Instead he blew it off and started agreeing with her about murder……although he was wrong on that too as he stupidly said “it cannot happen in America” when it obviously did and could again.
June 3rd, 2009 at 12:22 pmThe fetus is not your responsibility at that point.
June 3rd, 2009 at 12:23 pm“should be legal” should read “should be illegal”
My bad. The dumb is starting to rub off on me, apparently.
June 3rd, 2009 at 12:24 pmI think JohnM actually adds much to the debate here that is clearly lacking from C4P/Proud. I personally consider myself “pro-life” but clearly understand that freedom of choice is a very complex issue, and late-term abortions, while troubling, also are a very complicated subject and, to agree with a poster above, not given on a whim or on demand as Bill O’Reilly and perhaps JohnM erroneously state or suggest. My views are extremely personal to me, as a child born in Texas before Roe and who was adopted. There are equally compelling stories in the pro-choice camp.
I strongly do not believe anyone is “pro-abortion” in contrast to the pro-life movement’s rhetoric. I find it extraordinarily challenging to stake out a pro-life stance in the face of the pro-life movement’s advocacy (and in the extreme) celebration of violence and intermingling of an intolerent and hardcore religious stance in the debate. Roe is NOT going to be overturned. It has been on the books for over three decades and has consistently survived challenges before a conservative majority of the court. I know of no instance in which an expansion of constitutional rights has ever been retracted. One can certainly argue about the merits of Roe, and certainly there could be changes around the edges, but the fundamental premise likely will remain.
I think the pro-life movement would be wise to understand this and work to ensure a culture where abortion is rare and only performed under extreme cases. Both sides frankly need to move away from their absolutist positions that essentially only ensure mutual distrust and really destruction.
June 3rd, 2009 at 12:25 pmIn #86, Eric Ragle wrote:
Malkin genearlly side-steps uncomfortable truth. She seems to be quite comfortable in making unfounded assertions. You’re right: don’t expect a response.
A personal note: I have had the privilege of extensive travel in the “Muslim” world (especially Egypt and Turkey), have many Muslim friends who have introduced me to their extended circles of friends and families (weddings, iftar dinners (breaking the Ramadan fast), etc.) and have yet to meet a moderate or liberal Muslim who condones terrorism.
June 3rd, 2009 at 12:25 pmI wonder what John’s wife would say when he tells her, “Sorry honey, but because of my religious beliefs, you have to die now.”
June 3rd, 2009 at 12:27 pmJohnM Says:
smidget Says:
——————————————————————————–
So you admit then that some people DO have the right to determine who gets to live and who gets to die, as you admit that War is okay sometimes.
You still ignored the crux of the discussion – you didn’t say one word about being okay with abortion when the mother’s life is at risk. You have also determined that some forms of life are less valuable than others, so please explain how that same philosophy doesn’t extend to the life of the mother being more valuable than the possible life of a damaged fetus.
Of couse, admitting as much would be tanatmout to admitting that Dr. Tiller wasn’t a “baby killer” for performing late-term abortions as it has already been well established that late-term abortions are performed when the mother’s life is at risk, so I don’t expect you to be intellecutally honest enough to answer, but it would be nice if you addressed it, seeing as it’s directly on point.
Yes I guess there are sometimes when people can choose a life as my example of war. I don’t think if the mother’s life is in danger abortion should be legal. It is selfish to choose one innocent life over another. I would not expect a mother to choose their life over a 2 day old baby, why would it be different on the day the baby is born?
***
you were leaving.
but now you’re back
your “son” will just have to wait.
you are not a good “dad”.
:(
June 3rd, 2009 at 12:27 pmI think the pro-life movement would be wise to understand this and work to ensure a culture where abortion is rare and only performed under extreme cases.
what you just described was the pro-choice movement.
they want abortions to be a rare and unfortunate thing that is most certainly traumatic for those involved.
if that was the way the “pro-life” movement worked there would not be a debate… there aren’t people lobbying for more abortions.
the movement you seek already exists and its called pro-choice
i wish more people who thought themselves pro-life thought like you.
johnm most certainly does not.
June 3rd, 2009 at 12:32 pmOreily’s “culture war” has claimed it’s first life.
June 3rd, 2009 at 12:33 pmSoon the pro-life extremists, who say war is also OK, will be tracking down doctors who ‘pull the plug’ on elderly folk who cant breathe on their own because the doctor, following a patients wishes, murders them.
June 3rd, 2009 at 12:33 pmIm pro-life nuke the middle east to death!!
/snark
June 3rd, 2009 at 12:34 pmI’m sure that JohnM doesn’t realize it, but in this one sentence, he has summarized the central “creed” of the “pro-life” movement, which is:
We don’t give a damn about what happens to you AFTER you are born; we just expect 100% control of each and every fetus.
June 3rd, 2009 at 12:37 pmI’m glad Johnm isn’t making the laws.
June 3rd, 2009 at 12:46 pmJohnM Says:
Yes I guess there are sometimes when people can choose a life as my example of war. I don’t think if the mother’s life is in danger abortion should be legal. It is selfish to choose one innocent life over another. I would not expect a mother to choose their life over a 2 day old baby, why would it be different on the day the baby is born?
June 3rd, 2009 at 12:15 pm
Yeah, because a fetus — who would likely die along with the mother — will do a bang up job of caring for the woman’s other children.
But those kids are already born, so f uck ‘em, right JohnM?
You have demonstrated your hate for people who are different from yourself, and now your hatred of women and children. I hope my fellow TP commenters will now simply ignore your bloodthirsty stupidity and flag your comments.
June 3rd, 2009 at 1:00 pmConservativeForProgress Says:
Most babies in utero are killed for the selfish convenience of the mother, as a form of after the fact birth control. 47% of women who get abortions have had at least one previous abortion.
June 3rd, 2009 at 1:00 pm
They are not “babies,” they are fetuses. By posting such nonsense, you have demonstrated your ignorance about the terrible decision women make to have an abortion.
Yes, many women who have had abortions had had a previous abortion — that’s really none of your business, or mine. I doubt you’d be interested to know that most women who have had abortions do so because they must be able to support and care for their living children.
Moralize about that all you want, but you’d certainly demonize any woman who has too many children to care for properly, wouldn’t you?
Yes, you would. Because you’re a hypocrite.
June 3rd, 2009 at 1:04 pmIt is time for people like Patricia Ireland and Democratic pols and anyone who is not a raving conservative lunatic to STOP going on Fox News.
June 3rd, 2009 at 1:05 pmJust stop it.
Every time we appear on Fox we give them our implicit approval of what they say and do.
Zooey Says:
You have demonstrated your hate for people who are different from yourself, and now your hatred of women and children. I hope my fellow TP commenters will now simply ignore your bloodthirsty stupidity and flag your comments.
Agreed. Someone who would sit by and let his wife die because of it’s religious beliefs is not worth our time and/or effort.
June 3rd, 2009 at 1:08 pmC4Pee certainly claims to have a line on the mental state of pregnant women, particularly their relative levels of selfishness.
I wonder how many of these are selfish in nature?
Spontaneous abortion is a very common experience for women. It is estimated that between 25-50% of conceptions spontaneously abort. Researchers do not have an exact figure due to the fact that when this occurs very early on, many women do not know that they were ever pregnant.
Pee, any thoughts?
June 3rd, 2009 at 1:10 pmJohnM doesn’t believe in abortion to save the life of the mother. So say a beloved wife and mother of 3 has a life threatening condition like pre-eclampsia or obstetrical hemorrhage he would choose to let the mother die in hopes that the baby would survive.
June 3rd, 2009 at 1:13 pmWhat kind of a woman would marry a man who cares so little for her, that he would choose for her to die because of his principle?
June 3rd, 2009 at 1:13 pmMost babies in utero are killed for the selfish convenience of the mother, as a form of after the fact birth control. 47% of women who get abortions have had at least one previous abortion.
and that is any of your business because?
“selfish convenience” what a crock of crap.
You know what, I think I will just repost my response to that azz obamawipe$ from yesterday, you guys all seem to be pretty much the same…and I will point out that you are MEN who want to control what WOMEN are allowed to do when they find themselves pregnant.
obamawipe$, you and Bill O’Reilly and your kind really are a/sses aren’t you?
You don’t want women to have abortions, but you don’t want poor women to have babies because they are just doing it to get that huge welfare check.
You don’t want people with horribly sick babies to abort, but you and your kind are unwilling to help families pay for the huge medical bills or provide support for the emotional toll a very one of these kids can cause a family.
You say that people with genetic birth defects in their family should not get pregnant, but your kind does not want people to practice birth control nor do you want comprehensive sex education or free birth control, the 2 things that have proven to lower the abortion rate.
You don’t want to do what really needs to be done to help women decide to carry a child to term and then give it up for adoption.
You don’t want to help families afford that extra child that they end up with when they choose to continue a pregnancy.
You and your kind cut health care and programs that help the working poor, you judge when you should show empathy and do it all in the name of Jesus.
What you and your kind do want is to control women, control our sexual autonomy….you want to be able to take us back to a time when we were nothing more the a “thing”, a walking incubator for your children.
And I assume that you want woman who might die by continuing a pregnancy to just go ahead and die since it would be better if there were no Doctors to preform late term abortions.
In the end it is none of your beeswax why a woman chooses to have an abortion.
June 3rd, 2009 at 1:15 pmNone.
ConservativeForProgress Says:
June 3rd, 2009 at 1:15 pm
Try citing an unbiased report. You might be surprised that they do exist.
June 3rd, 2009 at 1:18 pmI know you would like to direct the discussion the way you think best serves your twisted purposes, Pee, but you don’t dictate the rules here.
Even if you made sense, you still wouldn’t dictate the rules here.
June 3rd, 2009 at 1:20 pmBlackwidow – Wow you said it all very well…especially the ones that condemn all forms of birth control but scream over welfare payments to moms. Anyone else wonder why there are more men against abortion than women ? Perhaps they have no idea what it is like to give birth, support for years and years children turning into adults. So easy to judge others. If abortion is against your beliefs why not leave the judgment between God and the ones involved instead of taking it upon yourself to do Gods work. Religious bigots are a blot on society.
June 3rd, 2009 at 1:21 pmConservativeForProgress Says:
Ralph: We are not talking about miscarriages here. We are talking about the premeditated process of intentionally killing a doctor in church.
***
that’s what “we” are talking
about here.
..
:|
June 3rd, 2009 at 1:22 pmConservativeForProgress Says:
When a right-wing Christian vigilante kills a late term abortionist, “Progressive” fingers race to point the finger at all Conservatives. Yet, when a left-wing Muslim vigilante kills military recruiters, he kills alone. The disparate treatment of the two cases is striking.
So far our local police have found no evidence that Mr. Bledsoe was a “left wing” extremist.
June 3rd, 2009 at 1:24 pmWhat he has said so far is that what was done to Muslims is the reason he shot those soldiers. To me that would mean he is responding to the torture and killing of Muslims in Iraq which would mean that this could be, wait for it….the fault of the previous administration and their torture program.
I have yet to hear of Muslim terrorists who are liberal, do you have proof that they exist?
tried cfp’s “link”, here’s what i got:
The page cannot be found
The page you are looking for might have been removed, had its name changed, or is temporarily unavailable.
Please try the following:
Make sure that the Web site address displayed in the address bar of your browser is spelled and formatted correctly.
If you reached this page by clicking a link, contact the Web site administrator to alert them that the link is incorrectly formatted.
Click the Back button to try another link.
HTTP Error 404 – File or directory not found.
Internet Information Services (IIS)
Technical Information (for support personnel)
Go to Microsoft Product Support Services and perform a title search for the words HTTP and 404.
June 3rd, 2009 at 1:24 pmOpen IIS Help, which is accessible in IIS Manager (inetmgr), and search for topics titled Web Site Setup, Common Administrative Tasks, and About Custom Error Messages.
***
ConservativeForProgress Says:
RHF: What percent of abortions do you contend are performed because of rape? 0.5%? less? Why do you focus on that small percentage instead of the large percentage that are performed for the selfish convenience of the mother?
***
those selfish moms!
…
btw, how many babies
have you birthed?
:)
June 3rd, 2009 at 1:25 pmShe was probably asking for it anyway. I’ll bet she was wearing a short skirt.
June 3rd, 2009 at 1:26 pmZooey Says:
——————————————————————————–
JohnM Says:
Yes I guess there are sometimes when people can choose a life as my example of war. I don’t think if the mother’s life is in danger abortion should be legal. It is selfish to choose one innocent life over another. I would not expect a mother to choose their life over a 2 day old baby, why would it be different on the day the baby is born?
June 3rd, 2009 at 12:15 pm
Yeah, because a fetus — who would likely die along with the mother — will do a bang up job of caring for the woman’s other children.
But those kids are already born, so f uck ‘em, right JohnM?
You have demonstrated your hate for people who are different from yourself, and now your hatred of women and children. I hope my fellow TP commenters will now simply ignore your bloodthirsty stupidity and flag your comments.
You can be the one that decides whose life is worth keeping and which should be killed. I for one don’t think one innocent person should decide if another innocent person should die.
June 3rd, 2009 at 1:26 pmConservativeForProgress Says:
I cited to the Center for Disease Control, Zooey. What makes you think their figures are biased? What statistics would you prefer?
June 3rd, 2009 at 1:19 pm
“Physicians for Life” is not the CDC. Try again.
June 3rd, 2009 at 1:26 pm…
this link works.
sorry cfp.
:)
June 3rd, 2009 at 1:27 pmConservativeForProgress Says:
304. How many 24 yr. old, black, male, Conservative, Republican, anti-Military converts to Muslim do you know? Until facts come out proving otherwise, I think it is safe to assume that the assailant is a Liberal.
June 3rd, 2009 at 1:27 pm
Dismissed.
June 3rd, 2009 at 1:28 pmDoodlebug Shayne Says:
——————————————————————————–
JohnM Says:
Nobody should choose which life is worth keeping and which is worth terminating.
JohnM doesn’t believe in abortion to save the life of the mother. So say a beloved wife and mother of 3 has a life threatening condition like pre-eclampsia or obstetrical hemorrhage he would choose to let the mother die in hopes that the baby would survive.
Why is her life more important than the baby’s?
June 3rd, 2009 at 1:29 pmConservativeForProgress Says:
Ralph: We are not talking about miscarriages here. We are talking about the premeditated process of intentionally killing a baby in utero.
In the medical field miscarriages and abortions are counted as the same. They do not pull out the number of deliberated abortions.
So when teabaggers claimed that 47m abortions happened, it’s a out and out lie.
#2 In most cases women have late term abortions because they have to have it. No women I know want to carry a baby they don’t want. It’s just commonsense which we know the repugs lack.
June 3rd, 2009 at 1:29 pm….
“assume”?
:)
June 3rd, 2009 at 1:30 pmThe article admits “the procedure is gruesome, as anyone who has seen it
Ummmm, has anyone said that abortion is not a gruesome procedure.
Hell, having a baby can be pretty gruesome…all that blood and fluid and shite.
Not a pretty thing to see.
Abortion is an ugly surgical procedure that is necessary in a society that says woman are autonomous humans with the right to make all of their own medical decisions.
I know if sucks that in the end women have the power to decide who gets born and who does not. I know it really, really sticks in the craw of men who think we should be under their control, that men are the rightful “Masters of the Universe” but that is just not the way it is. We are and should be the ultimate decision makers of our fertility and lives.
June 3rd, 2009 at 1:32 pmOh yeah the pictures of fetuses these repugs show are from a miscarriage.
They are nuts and don’t own women’s bodies.
They are anti-choice not pro-life.
June 3rd, 2009 at 1:32 pmConservativeForProgress Says:
Why does one have to “birth” a baby in order to have the right to express an opinion on the premeditated murder of babies in utero? Do I have to have been a victim of rape in order to have an opinion on rape? Do I have to have been a killer in order to have an opinion on murder? Do I have to be a Jew in order to have an opinion on Hollocaust denial?
How many late-term abortions have you witnessed?
***
nice straw man.
but you didn’t answer the question did you?
**
your “link” still doesn’t work.
:)
June 3rd, 2009 at 1:32 pmWith this statement is it safe to assume you are off topic and out of touch with reality…please do not reply, this does not mean I want to talk to you…
June 3rd, 2009 at 1:33 pmJohnM Says:
You can be the one that decides whose life is worth keeping and which should be killed. I for one don’t think one innocent person should decide if another innocent person should die.
June 3rd, 2009 at 1:26 pm
If I am carrying a pregnancy that will kill me if I try to deliver, depriving my existing children of their mother – not to mention depriving me of my LIFE — I will decide to abort that fetus.
I’ll bet anyone $1 you’re all for the death penalty. Innocent people have been put to death, you know.
June 3rd, 2009 at 1:33 pmConservativeForProgress Says:
How many late-term abortions have you witnessed?
June 3rd, 2009 at 1:30 pm
How many have YOU witnessed?
June 3rd, 2009 at 1:33 pmProud and CFP why not visit a home with severly damaged children live before you condemn people for making a choice for their own life. Again, it is between a person and whoever God might be, not you and your faith to control.
June 3rd, 2009 at 1:33 pmI think it’s safe to assume that you are a fool who talks out of his a$$.
June 3rd, 2009 at 1:34 pmZooey Says:
——————————————————————————–
JohnM Says:
You can be the one that decides whose life is worth keeping and which should be killed. I for one don’t think one innocent person should decide if another innocent person should die.
June 3rd, 2009 at 1:26 pm
If I am carrying a pregnancy that will kill me if I try to deliver, depriving my existing children of their mother – not to mention depriving me of my LIFE — I will decide to abort that fetus.
I’ll bet anyone $1 you’re all for the death penalty. Innocent people have been put to death, you know.
So you have decided that your life is worth more than your baby’s that is nice. I think we are seeing your true colors here.
I have already said I am against the death penalty so you can keep your $1 bet.
June 3rd, 2009 at 1:34 pmThe post below discusses, what they feel, is the true motivation of the anti-abortion movement.
I am a male, and I kind of agree with it. I am interested in what other people think about this theory, so let me know what you think either by replying on this site, or on the actual site.
http://progressnotcongress.org/blog/?p=783
June 3rd, 2009 at 1:37 pmLike all right-wing extremists, you have decided that you are god, and you decide who lives and dies.
June 3rd, 2009 at 1:37 pmSomehow, CFP decided that those decrying JohnM’s statement that even if a woman’s life is on the line she should not abort the pregnancy was directed at him. How the hell that happened, we may never know.
Back to the topic under discussion:
June 3rd, 2009 at 1:38 pmJohnM, you are being intentionally obtuse, although I note that you have revised your previous position of not being able to determine which lives are for saving and which lives are for terminating to only include those you deem “innocent.” So tell me, in the case of the numerous life-threatening conditions that can occur from pregnancy, you clearly feel that the child should not be aborted, so please explain to me how 1) the “baby” is innocent if it is killing it’s mother (I agree, btw, I just want to hear your personal justification for it), and 2) how forcing the lack of option to abort isn’t doing exactly what you claim to be against – forcing one innocent to give up their life for another innocent. In plainer language, I am asking you how you justify imposing that decision on someone else at your whim.
You’ll find a lot of $1 losses on this thread, my friend. Many many many liberals are against the death penalty, and I would wager a good deal more than $1 that the majority of posters on this board are against it also.
But that’s not really the topic.
June 3rd, 2009 at 1:38 pmHe is the most insecure little man. He literally cannot admit he’s wrong. He’ll make little, tiny admissions of being wrong to keep the delusion going in his head, but, ultimately his fragile, fragile ego cannot admit to screw-ups.
June 3rd, 2009 at 1:38 pmNot true. You would sentence a prenant woman to death, rather than allow her doctor to save her.
June 3rd, 2009 at 1:39 pmJohnM Says:
Zooey Says:
——————————————————————————–
JohnM Says:
You can be the one that decides whose life is worth keeping and which should be killed. I for one don’t think one innocent person should decide if another innocent person should die.
June 3rd, 2009 at 1:26 pm
If I am carrying a pregnancy that will kill me if I try to deliver, depriving my existing children of their mother – not to mention depriving me of my LIFE — I will decide to abort that fetus.
I’ll bet anyone $1 you’re all for the death penalty. Innocent people have been put to death, you know.
So you have decided that your life is worth more than your baby’s that is nice. I think we are seeing your true colors here.
I have already said I am against the death penalty so you can keep your $1 bet.
***
why are you ignoring
(neglecting) your “son”
and your “foster children”?
???
June 3rd, 2009 at 1:40 pmOh, my bad, John. I thought that was your response to Zooey, not vice versa. Apologies.
June 3rd, 2009 at 1:40 pmRegarding having on giving birth to have an opinion…an opinion sure, a say so for women, hell no ! When you conservatives put up money and care for foster children I will be glad to listen until then….keep your opinions to yurself.
June 3rd, 2009 at 1:41 pmAccording to extremist right-wing doctrine, the woman is dirty, because she had sex. Therefore, she should die.
June 3rd, 2009 at 1:42 pmJohnM Says:
So you have decided that your life is worth more than your baby’s that is nice. I think we are seeing your true colors here.
June 3rd, 2009 at 1:34 pm
Yes, my life is worth more than the life of a fetus. You would see living children orphaned, and would have a woman sacrifice the worth of her whole life for a fetus who has never drawn breath independent of that woman.
You’re showing your true colors here — and those colors are black and bloody, with a strong scent of urine.
June 3rd, 2009 at 1:43 pmAlso, John, why is the baby’s life more important than the mother’s?
That question goes both ways. Shit, even Sarah Palin will concede that we have no right to force someone to give up their life for an unborn fetus.
June 3rd, 2009 at 1:43 pmThe women that I have known who have had abortions did so with much searching of their hearts not because it was convenient. In fact in my many years I do not know one woman who underwent an abortion lightly. How many women do you know that decided for convenience sake ?
June 3rd, 2009 at 1:43 pmrepublicans hate facts Says:
——————————————————————————–
ConservativeForProgress Says:
Why does one have to “birth” a baby in order to have the right to express an opinion on the premeditated murder of babies in utero? Do I have to have been a victim of rape in order to have an opinion on rape? Do I have to have been a killer in order to have an opinion on murder? Do I have to be a Jew in order to have an opinion on Hollocaust denial?
How many late-term abortions have you witnessed?
Yawn. BABIES have HUMAN BRAIN WAVES, a fetus DOES NOT. Just like HUMANS have them and once they don’t they are PRONOUNCED *DEAD* you IGNORANT J*CK*SS…
A fetus has brain activity at 12 weeks. Are you against aborting them after that?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fetus
June 3rd, 2009 at 1:45 pmSee post #345
June 3rd, 2009 at 1:45 pmCFP
That is the focus because that is the reason that Dr. Tiller was demonized – late-term abortions. The percentage of late-term abortions that are carried out due to severely damaged fetus or risk of life of the mother make up nearly 100%, because elective late-term abortions are not legal.
If you want to argue the causes of legal elective abortions, you won’t get an argument from very many people that the majority of them are for birth-control purposes, as the statistics do seem to back that up, but that’s the conversation here, no matter how hard you try to steer it in that direction.
June 3rd, 2009 at 1:45 pmI just want him to admit it, shoeless. :)
June 3rd, 2009 at 1:45 pmshoeless Says:
——————————————————————————–
smidget Says:
——————————————————————————–
JohnM, you are being intentionally obtuse, although I note that you have revised your previous position of not being able to determine which lives are for saving and which lives are for terminating to only include those you deem “innocent.”
According to extremist right-wing doctrine, the woman is dirty, because she had sex. Therefore, she should die.
Nobody thinks that.
June 3rd, 2009 at 1:46 pmIt seems easier to make judgments on something one will never actually have to take action on themselves…just sayin’…
June 3rd, 2009 at 1:46 pmkevsters Says:
The post below discusses, what they feel, is the true motivation of the anti-abortion movement.
http://progressnotcongress.org/blog/?p=783
It is what I have been saying for a long time.
From the post:
By excluding women from various aspects of society, such as the church, men essentially eliminated half of their competition for the most powerful jobs.
Women however, have a gift that men do not have. This gift is the greatest possible gift one could be given. This gift is the ability to create life. In the eyes of many, this makes women far superior to men, therefore invalidating all of the rhetoric that women are inferior.
Since men could not, and will never be able to create life, the only thing left to do is some how control the process by taking the choice out of the woman’s hands.
There are people who really do think abortion is wrong, that ALL life is sacred, but there is a whole other group of men who, even if subconsciously, want to keep the “little woman” in her place by controlling her sexuality and fertility.
June 3rd, 2009 at 1:46 pmThen why do you think that a woman’s life is more important than the fetus, John?
June 3rd, 2009 at 1:47 pmShit, scratch that.
Then why do you think that a woman’s life is less important than the fetus, John?
This thread is moving too fast for my fingers to keep up!
June 3rd, 2009 at 1:47 pmConservativeForProgress Says:
304. How many 24 yr. old, black, male, Conservative, Republican, anti-Military converts to Muslim do you know? Until facts come out proving otherwise, I think it is safe to assume that the assailant is a Liberal.
All it takes is one to disprove this assumption. Just because we personally don’t know of any, that does not mean there aren’t any, right?
June 3rd, 2009 at 1:48 pmActually you pontificating fools make me really angry…I remember before Roe V Wade and I know women that died from the backstreet abortionists because of the ideas of some. Now we have wonderful, scientific technology to prevent births of the damaged and severly deformed. Or births from incest by 11 and 12 year old girls. And again, put your money where your judgemental mouth is, be a foster parent for a deformed child. Or just shut up.
June 3rd, 2009 at 1:49 pmHow many religious extremist liberals do you know? Until some facts come out proving otherwise, I think it is safe to assume that the assailant is a Conservative.
June 3rd, 2009 at 1:49 pmActually, I don’t find it safe to assume that, I was just illustrating the cognitive dissonance.
June 3rd, 2009 at 1:50 pmTexaslady they can’t…they want to play God but won’t admit it…
June 3rd, 2009 at 1:50 pmConservativeForProgress Says:
304. How many 24 yr. old, black, male, Conservative, Republican, anti-Military converts to Muslim do you know? Until facts come out proving otherwise, I think it is safe to assume that the assailant is a Liberal.
How many converts to Islam (not Muslim) do you know? Why on earth would you think he was a liberal? Do you know a lot of liberals who have converted to Islam? Do you know any?
Statistics? You “assume” he’s a liberal because you have an agenda, not because it makes any sense at all or because you have any actual information to substantiate your assumption.
June 3rd, 2009 at 1:50 pm——————————————————————————–
Zooey Says:
——————————————————————————–
JohnM Says:
So you have decided that your life is worth more than your baby’s that is nice. I think we are seeing your true colors here.
June 3rd, 2009 at 1:34 pm
Yes, my life is worth more than the life of a fetus. You would see living children orphaned, and would have a woman sacrifice the worth of her whole life for a fetus who has never drawn breath independent of that woman.
You’re showing your true colors here — and those colors are black and bloody, with a strong scent of urine.
That does not make the mother’s life more important. At what age is the baby worth as much as the mother’s? When they can walk? When they can talk? They still need a cargiver until they are at least in their teenage years to survive. Maybe once a person is 18, then they are an equal person in your opinion. Your inability for compassion of innocent babies is quite disturbing.
June 3rd, 2009 at 1:50 pmBut they were dirty women. They had sex. Right John?
June 3rd, 2009 at 1:51 pmNo…that’s just your fuc$ed up take on it…you’re still wrong…please don’t reply, this does not mean I want to talk to you…
June 3rd, 2009 at 1:51 pmAnswer the question, John. You maintain that the mother’s life is not as important as that of the fetus, but you have yet to offer any justification for that assumption. Why is the mother’s life worth less than the fetus’?
June 3rd, 2009 at 1:52 pmsmidget Says:
——————————————————————————–
Shit, scratch that.
Then why do you think that a woman’s life is less important than the fetus, John?
This thread is moving too fast for my fingers to keep up!
I think they are equal.
June 3rd, 2009 at 1:53 pmConservativeForProgress Says:
It appears that many “abortion rights” supporters are masking the guilt of past tragic decisions to abort with a self-righteous feeling that they are fighting for civil rights.
It appears that way to you, but only because you’re peering out from your own colon.
June 3rd, 2009 at 1:53 pmConservativeForProgress Says:
texaslady Says:
——————————————————————————–
Proud and CFP why not visit a home with severly damaged children live before you condemn people for making a choice for their own life. Again, it is between a person and whoever God might be, not you and your faith to control.
June 3rd, 2009 at 1:33 pm
_________________________________
Why do you focus on the extremely small percentage of abortions that are performed because the mother knows that she is carrying a “severly damaged child.” What about the much larger percentage that are perforemd for the selfish convenience of the mother?
p.s. I too am against the death penalty.
***
how many times have we heard you say that before…?
that is compared to the endless number of times you’ve
stated your opposition to abortion?
no balance of outrage there, right?
btw, you did vote for “w” for president,
didn’t you?
:)
June 3rd, 2009 at 1:53 pmNo, CFP, we are fighting for the right of a person to make decisions about their own body, not the government. Amazingly, that’s an incredibly conservative viewpoint, and I find it stunning that a professed conservative doesn’t recognize that.
June 3rd, 2009 at 1:54 pmConservativeForProgress Says:
It appears that many “abortion rights” supporters are masking the guilt of past tragic decisions to abort with a self-righteous feeling that they are fighting for civil rights.
***
why do you say that?
:|
June 3rd, 2009 at 1:54 pmIf she dies from her complications then the fetus will most likely die too. Then you’ll have two deaths instead of one. That’s why.
June 3rd, 2009 at 1:55 pmIf they are equal, then you must support the right of a woman to make the decision whether or not she is willing to give up her life for the sake of a fetus that is unlikely to survive anyway, as is the most frequent case with late-term abortions.
Glad we finally got around to that. Good to know you agree with the rest of us. You could have just said that in the first place.
June 3rd, 2009 at 1:55 pmAnd again, put your money where your judgemental mouth is, be a foster parent for a deformed child. Or just shut up.
Shut up would be nice, but what I would really like to see is these folks stop voting for “pro-life” pols who do not support programs that support families. Programs that help women continue their education if the have that baby, that give then a living wage while they raise that kid. programs that provide free health care and in home help for families who choose to have that horribly disabled child or even the mildly disabled child.
June 3rd, 2009 at 1:55 pmThat’s what I want to see. I want to see the “pro-life” folks actually support real “pro-life” candidates.
If they are equal, why do you condemn the woman to death? Is it because she had sex and is dirty?
June 3rd, 2009 at 1:56 pmI suppose it depends on your definition of extreme, doesn’t it, CFP?
I find anyone who functions under a daily delusion to be extreme. But that’s just my opinion, so I don’t profess to be worthy of legislating just things. I, unlike some, recognize that I don’t have the right to force my opinions onto others.
June 3rd, 2009 at 1:57 pmHow many 24 yr. old, black, male, Conservative, Republican, anti-Military converts to Muslim do you know? Until facts come out proving otherwise, I think it is safe to assume that the assailant is a Liberal.
i can’t think of any islamic fundamentalists whose views i would describe as liberal.
they are in fact more conservative than even the right wing in our country.
they think the way we dress is a sin, they think the music we listen to is a sin, the language we use, the fact that their are abortions, the fact that women have rights.
do those ideas sound liberal to you?
or would you say thats fairly hardline right wing
fundamentalist muslims are NOT LIBERAL
June 3rd, 2009 at 1:59 pmConservativeForProgress Says:
It appears that many “abortion rights” supporters are masking the guilt of past tragic decisions to abort with a self-righteous feeling that they are fighting for civil rights.
hahahahaha
June 3rd, 2009 at 2:00 pmReally?
That’s all you got?
You have really run out of arguments.
Sorry dude, but I never had an abortion, if I had I would have had a damn good reason for it and there would be no guilt. Guess what for as many woman who regret their abortions (and what is life if not one regret after another) there are just as many, if not more, who have no regrets at all.
John would condemn his own mother to death, so that he could live. Why is that John? Why would you kill your own mother so that you could live? Is it because she had sex? John, do you think your mother is dirty?
June 3rd, 2009 at 2:00 pmThe point, pimped out, was that finding the exception that proves the rule doesn’t add weight to an admitted assumption. The wise course of action would be to wait for actual facts before jumping to conclusions, particularly when the details are not clear enough to make an assumption even remotely rational.
But thanks for missing the point so dramatically that I had an opportunity to point it out.
June 3rd, 2009 at 2:00 pmReminder: if you oppose abortion, vote Democratic.
Studies show that abortion rates are lower where pro-choice laws are in effect. This means liberals have prevented more abortions than the entire Right to Life movement–and they didn’t have to murder anyone to do it.
Swine
June 3rd, 2009 at 2:01 pmDoodlebug Shayne Says:
——————————————————————————–
JohnM Says:
Doodlebug Shayne Says:
——————————————————————————–
JohnM Says:
Nobody should choose which life is worth keeping and which is worth terminating.
JohnM doesn’t believe in abortion to save the life of the mother. So say a beloved wife and mother of 3 has a life threatening condition like pre-eclampsia or obstetrical hemorrhage he would choose to let the mother die in hopes that the baby would survive.
Why is her life more important than the baby’s?
If she dies from her complications then the fetus will most likely die too. Then you’ll have two deaths instead of one. That’s why.
That is not actually true. In many cases the baby is not threatened when the mother’s is.
June 3rd, 2009 at 2:02 pmFirst of all, until the fetus is viable outside the womb, it IS part of the woman’s body, as it more parasitic than anything else.
But, again, I don’t support abortion-as-birth control, and you are still trying to move away from the topic, which is late-term abortions. In the case of late-term abortions, the mother’s life is almost always at stake, and to make any type of claim that making a decision like that does not affect her body is so disingenuous as to render any possible logical argument you had invalid.
June 3rd, 2009 at 2:02 pmConservativeForProgress Says:
smidget Says:
——————————————————————————–
No, CFP, we are fighting for the right of a person to make decisions about their own body, not the government. Amazingly, that’s an incredibly conservative viewpoint, and I find it stunning that a professed conservative doesn’t recognize that.
June 3rd, 2009 at 1:54 pm
________________________________________
The baby’s body is usually inside the mother’s body for 37-40 weeks, but that does not make him/her “the mother’s body.” Why do you refuse to recognize that?
***
still believe in the stork, eh?
science and conservatism;
mutually opposed concepts.
:::
June 3rd, 2009 at 2:02 pmPLC has rung your bell quite a few times, yes.
I wouldn’t call PLC a “religious extremist” though. What about his faith strikes you as “extreme”?
June 3rd, 2009 at 2:03 pmpimped out Says:
How many religious extremist liberals do you know?
patrioticliberalChristian ring any bells?
***
i tell you what, i’ll give you that one
just to make you stop crying.
but it still only makes one.
***
any more?
:)
June 3rd, 2009 at 2:04 pmJohn please explain to us how you would justify condemning your own mother to death, so that you could live.
June 3rd, 2009 at 2:05 pmJohnM, that was the dumbest thing you’ve said so far. I have to tell you, I was giving you the benefit of the doubt there for a while, but you have grossly overstepped your lexicon of knowledge on that one.
When the mother’s life is in danger, it almost ALWAYS directly affects the fetus. You seem to be assuming that a late-term abortion only takes place on the day that the child was to be born, which is such an incredibly mistaken assumption, I’m not sure where to start on setting you straight.
I think we’re just going to have to end this discussion on the following set of knowledge, based on facts already in evidence:
JohnM only THINKS he knows what he’s talking about here, but has proved spectacularly that he does not.
CFP refuses to stay on the actual topic of conversation.
JohnM had better hope that his wife agrees with him that her life is not worth as much as the fetus’ (I don’t care what you say to the contrary, John, because if you really thought that their worth was the same, you’d support a woman’s right to not be forced into death at your whim of who’s more important).
That actually seems to be all we’ve managed to establish, here. Too bad it took nearly 400 posts to accomplish it.
June 3rd, 2009 at 2:06 pmThe screaming murdering banshies are back in the news…. the oh so “religious” whack jobs who absolutely think anyone’s God would condone what they have done.
Killing in the name of God… what could be be more abhorrent.
Whether it is a terrorist in Iraq or in Kansas… what’s in a name? An assassination is an assassination. Use any stupid motive or excuse. Use the name of God or Allah in vain, you are still assassins and have nothing whatever to do with God!! I say thank goodness it isn’t my God. She knows better.
Perhaps all these people are just psychopaths who need only a good excuse to release their murderous nature?
When these hate mongers and assassins and their supporters can show me a nation with no capital punishment, no citizens sent to die, slaughtered in political wars, those illusive WMD’s… when a gay man or woman or when a Muslim can be safe on the streets on America… then maybe I might take a moment to consider what these right wing pontificating so called “religious” monsters have to say. Actually no not even then. It just shows how this is about my God is better than yours and power & control over others.
But, make no mistake what is happening here to our doctors (to gays), by these whackos, is no different than those who flew those planes into the World Trade Center. Only the means was different the cause the same… a twisted, sick view of what they think God is all about.
And to law enforcement, “There have been “more than 6,100 acts of violence against abortion providers in the United States and Canada since 1977,” and four doctors have been killed.”… whether Federal or Local, when I see how the “law” turns the other way ( you know who you all are)… I say when one of your own is killed by another type of sicko then don’t demand justice. You don’t believe in it for an abortion doctor, you don’t deserve it for yourself.
And a special… shout out to Bill O’Reilly for his (usual) insanity… “”Dr. George Tiller destroys fetuses for just about any reason, right up until the birth date,” said Fox News host Bill O’Reilly.” Who in their right mind can even take that statment with any seriousness !
Yes here is a man who in his entire career has never taken personal responsibility for the trash that comes out of his mouth!! He is one sick bastard. Imagine getting paid money to be a partner to assassinations! I’m sure he’s one the best friends of the Taliban or Al Queda. I would like to see O’Reilly held as an accomplish. Obviously he is smiling and celebrating this murder… it’s just up his alley.
And if this insanity is to continue and since there seems to be no rule of law enforced, I say all these “people” the so called “pro lifers”, talk about an oxymoron, should have their names on a list. We will do it alphabetically … and every time they stop a LEGAL abortion they get to take the child and must raise it as their own and pay all the money and all the efforts it takes to raise a child. No matter what maybe wrong with the child any handicap… they must take it. Let’s see how long their “religiousness” lasts. The down side is… the poor kids that get stuck with those monsters.
Have you guessed I’m just a little out raged?!
June 3rd, 2009 at 2:07 pmpimped out Says:
miget……smacked down, bigtime!
***
why do you say that?
:)
June 3rd, 2009 at 2:07 pmConservativeForProgress Says:
The baby’s body is usually inside the mother’s body for 37-40 weeks, but that does not make him/her “the mother’s body.” Why do you refuse to recognize that?
But it is MY right to decide if I want to allow the fetus to USE my body to grow until it is able to exist outside MY body.
June 3rd, 2009 at 2:08 pmYes, it is all about me. It IS all about women and their right to bodily autonomy. We are NOT children, we do NOT need others to make these decisions for us.
Pregnancy and parenthood are hard enough, I cannot imagine what it would feel like if one felt forced by others to do it.
pimped out whore, please explain why you consider PLC an “extremist”? What is extreme about the religious faith he has expressed or exhibited here?
Thanks.
June 3rd, 2009 at 2:08 pmJohn, I waiting. You need to justify yourself. Why would you choose your life over your mother’s life?
June 3rd, 2009 at 2:08 pmpimped out, you only crickets in you own head, as I directly responded to that statement.
Do you have any ability to be honest, or are you that kind of troll?
June 3rd, 2009 at 2:08 pmralph the wonder locust Says:
pimped out whore, please explain why you consider PLC an “extremist”? What is extreme about the religious faith he has expressed or exhibited here?
Thanks.
***
ralph,
when laura tells pimpy,
pimpy will tell you.
:)
capice?
:)
:)
June 3rd, 2009 at 2:09 pmO’Reilly did more than merely “report” on what extremist groups were saying about Tiller. He went on to endorse these points of view, hence he was no longer an objective conveyor of information. He embraced and extolled upon the hate-filled propaganda of the anti-abortion extremist faction.
But then, we already knew that FOX News employs “commentators” rather than journalists or investigative reporters, so they are therefore not beholden to rules of journalistic integrity or ethics and are free to make crap up.
June 3rd, 2009 at 2:09 pmJohnM Says:
That is not actually true. In many cases the baby is not threatened when the mother’s is.
No, moron, in few cases is the baby not threatened. So, you still haven’t answered. If your wife was pregnant and it went horribly wrong and the only way to save the mother’s life was to perform a late term abortion, would you allow your wife to die?
June 3rd, 2009 at 2:09 pmPerhaps pimped_out thinks that “Patriotism” is extreme. Or perhaps our prostitute friend thinks that liberalism is extreme, and thus PLC qualifies as a “religious extremist”.
There’s really no telling at this point.
June 3rd, 2009 at 2:10 pmAs a strong pro-choice woman, a mom of 4, don’t know if I could have an abortion but I definitely want safe termination available for my daughters and other women who have to make such a difficult decision.
June 3rd, 2009 at 2:11 pmConservativeForProgress Says:
391. In the case of late term abortions there is almost always a claim that the mother’s life is at stake. The claim is not always true.
And you know this how? In Kansas two other doctors need to agree with the attending physician that a women’s life is endangered. So you are saying that three doctors would lie simply to perform a late term abortion on a healthy woman?
Would you allow your wife to die if her life was threatened by a late term pregnancy?
June 3rd, 2009 at 2:12 pmC4Pee says that a claim of “almost always” is “not always true”.
So I guess this means sometimes it IS almost always true but occasionally it is NOT almost always true.
I’m confused.
But that may have been C4Pee’s intention.
June 3rd, 2009 at 2:13 pmJohnM Says:
aybe the reason a lot of people are opposed to abortion is because they do not want our babies killed.
Okay skipping a bit to reply to this one. They are not your babies moron. If they were, you’d care for their wellbeing even after they were born.
June 3rd, 2009 at 2:14 pmJohn, does your mother know that you would let her die, if it would save your life?
June 3rd, 2009 at 2:14 pmCFP – So now you propose control over a woman’s body for religious beliefs. About 40 years ago my best friend died when the “church” decided the life of the baby was more important. So, a 23 year old woman died and left 3 children to be raised. You are either a sadist or just talking to hear yourself. Your opinions are beyond ridiculous.
June 3rd, 2009 at 2:15 pmConservativeForProgress Says:
391. In the case of late term abortions there is almost always a claim that the mother’s life is at stake. The claim is not always true. That child, condemned to death, however, is denied due process by the late term abortionist who simply gets another doctor in his office to sign off on the procedure, frequently without ever examining the mother or child. Why not appoint a guardian ad litem for the child to represent him/her before a quasi-judicial tribunal which will decide whether or not the mother’s life is truly at stake? Are you against due process?
….
how amicus briefs have you
written on behalf of the unborn?
*
or do you just talk the talk…?
phony.
:|
June 3rd, 2009 at 2:15 pmCFP
Wow, you actually read a statement that said “almost always” and then claimed that such a claim was “not always true” and think that was to be a counterpoint? That was the opposite of a counter point. It was redundant. If I had claimed that that was always the case, you would have a point. I did not, thus you do not.
Moving on.
Late-term abortions ARE NOT ELECTIVE. That is illegal. You really can’t wrap your head around the medical necessity of such a practice, can you? That’s sad, I have to say. Of course I support due process, though I also recognize, as the law does, that due process is suspended when time constraints can lead to the loss of life, as would be the case of a woman who had to fight in court for her right to live, as you seem to be arguing she should.
Please justify explaining that position to your own mother, wife, sister, or daughter, and be sure to give details as to how you plan to explain your position that a woman should die because her fetus is more important than she is. I’m really looking forward to this.
June 3rd, 2009 at 2:17 pmCFP – tell me this. Let’s say that the government decided that there would be only one child per family and after that one child was born, the husband would have to have a vasectomy and the wife a tubal ligation.
Would that be OK with you?
June 3rd, 2009 at 2:18 pmWeird. A non-religious “religious extremist”. Never seen one o’ them before.
What about his political views are “very extreme”? Any quotes? Links? Evidence of any kind?
And even if his political views were as you insist “very extreme”, wouldn’t that make him a political extremist, and not a religious extremist?
It seems your premise is deeply flawed. But thanks.
June 3rd, 2009 at 2:19 pmWhen you are lying in the ditch on the right side of the road, even the median strip is impossible to see.
June 3rd, 2009 at 2:19 pmOh one more quick comment:
June 3rd, 2009 at 2:20 pmMaybe a new vantage point, to make a point.
I thought what if we decided for all men who violate a woman, rape being the most horrible (to me) what if we…. how shall I say it delicately? we surgically remove the offending appendage. Well that was pretty delicate !
I wonder how the feeling of having no control over what is done to your body makes a guy feel. Since so many of these holier than thou folks are men. OK too far? Too much? How about we just make them sterile… they’ve done that to women too.
Remember when it comes to women getting pregnant we aren’t talking about virgin births. It takes two to tango… but only one gets stomped on.
ConservativeForProgress Says:
——————————————————————————–
391. In the case of late term abortions there is almost always a claim that the mother’s life is at stake. The claim is not always true. That child, condemned to death, however, is denied due process by the late term abortionist who simply gets another doctor in his office to sign off on the procedure, frequently without ever examining the mother or child. Why not appoint a guardian ad litem for the child to represent him/her before a quasi-judicial tribunal which will decide whether or not the mother’s life is truly at stake? Are you against due process?
Care to offer any proof of this? How do you know if they did or did not examine them? Legally it’s a fetus not a child and therefore not entitled to legal representation.
So just so we’re clear, you would want your wife to give birth to a child who’s head is only half formed knowing that their life will be nothing but pain if they even survive?
I also take it you would want your wife to give birth to a child with Tay Sachs knowing the child would die by the age of 5 by slowly suffocating from loss of muscle function?
You’re a sick little man.
June 3rd, 2009 at 2:20 pmsmidget Says:
Please justify explaining that position to your own mother, wife, sister, or daughter, and be sure to give details as to how you plan to explain your position that a woman should die because her fetus is more important than she is. I’m really looking forward to this.
Don’t hold your breath. Trolls don’t answer questions they are asked. Because they know if they answer the question truthfully, it will contradict what they have been saying.
June 3rd, 2009 at 2:20 pmBilbo Hussein Baggins Says:
CFP – tell me this. Let’s say that the government decided that there would be only one child per family and after that one child was born, the husband would have to have a vasectomy and the wife a tubal ligation.
Would that be OK with you?
***
i know where this is going.
wanna see a human pretzel?
you’re on cfp.
:)
June 3rd, 2009 at 2:20 pm60thinks says:
I wonder how the feeling of having no control over what is done to your body makes a guy feel.
I can tell you from personal experience with the matter that it is the most violating, disgusting act that could ever be commited against a person. I honestly can’t give the feeling justice with words. It’s awful. It ruined my life for years. I’m just now at the point where I can speak freely about what happened to me and its been almost 10 years.
I’m with you 60, I’d like to know how a man would feel if their discovered they were pregnant after being violated like that.
June 3rd, 2009 at 2:23 pmpimped out Says:
——————————————————————————–
First off, he’s never expressed ANY religious faith. Secondly, his political views are very extreme. Next?
First of all, you obviously haven’t been around here very long because PLC frequently talks about his religious convictions. And to people like you anything to the left of Boss Limbaugh is “very extreme” political views.
June 3rd, 2009 at 2:23 pmTiller wasn’t killed, he was “aborted”. Don’t worry libs, I’m sure he didn’t feel anything. After all, tiller was just a clump of cells right? Tiller got what he had coming.
Funny how MSNBC, CNN and all the other left leaning news organizations aren’t covering the Arkansas shooting.
June 3rd, 2009 at 2:24 pmReally? Wrong, everything that adversely effects the mother stresses the fetus. And you’re assuming that the mother will live until the fetus is viable which is not guaranteed. These are among the major causes of stillbirths:
June 3rd, 2009 at 2:24 pm# maternal diabetes
# high blood pressure, including preeclampsia
# placental abruptions
And they are also among the three major causes of maternal death.
convenience of the mother, many of whom have multiple abortions out of convenience.
Wow you’ve topped yourself this time. Prove this. I want a statistics and studies with demographics, margin of error and confidence interval. I’m betting you can’t do that.
June 3rd, 2009 at 2:26 pmI wonder why the FBI is worried about right-wing domestic terrorists?
Looks like we have one right here folks.
June 3rd, 2009 at 2:27 pmMerdad/John/IH warning. Ignore the moron troll.
June 3rd, 2009 at 2:27 pmCFP, I am aware that saving the life of a mother is the motivation for a small percentages of abortions, but it is a motivation for the vast majority of late-term abortions.
Late-term abortions are what we are discussing. I have already expressed my distaste with using abortion as birth control on numerous occassions.
How, exactly, does expedite a trial hearing in a matter of minutes? That’s how long it can take a pulmonary embolis (quite a common pregnancy complication) to claim a life.
June 3rd, 2009 at 2:28 pmConservativeForProgress Says:
smidget: I never said that any woman should die because her fetus is more important than she is. I suggested that the baby be given due process, albeit on an expedited basis. Abortions performed to save the life of the mother are an extremely small percentage of abortions. Statistics (linked above) prove that most abortions are simply elective for the convenience of the mother, many of whom have multiple abortions out of convenience. I’d be happy to explain to my own mother, wife, sister or daughter that they should not chose to participate in the premeditated killing of a baby in utero for their own convenience.
***
ta da!
now pull a rabbit out your hat!
:)
June 3rd, 2009 at 2:28 pmIntellectual Heavyweight Says:
Tiller wasn’t killed, he was “aborted”. Don’t worry libs, I’m sure he didn’t feel anything. After all, tiller was just a clump of cells right? Tiller got what he had coming.
Funny how MSNBC, CNN and all the other left leaning news organizations aren’t covering the Arkansas shooting.
***
cfp,
aren’t you glad he’s on your side?
:)
:)
June 3rd, 2009 at 2:29 pmYes, it looks like John changed his name so he wouldn’t have to explain why he would sacrifice his mother’s life so that he could live.
June 3rd, 2009 at 2:30 pmI would like to respond to this. You are making a huge assumption here, mainly that the fetus has a chance of survival outside the womb, when in the majority of cases that isn’t true. You really need to learn something about this procedure from actual experts instead of pundits. This is not the kind of thing that happens on a whim. It’s a tragic and heartwrenching occurence that forever changes the people who had to make the decision. You are so callous to that reality, it’s more than slightly disturbing.
June 3rd, 2009 at 2:32 pmWRONG. Most abortions are SPONTANEOUS caused by nature or God with no human intervention at all. Included in all the statistics of abortions are the loss of pregnancies to women who wanted to carry the baby to term but lost the pregnancy. Up until 20 weeks gestation all these losses are called spontaneous abortion and are included. After 20 weeks they are call miscarriages until they are called stillbirths. No woman in her right mind who just didn’t want to have a baby would wait until 20 weeks to have an abortion “just because”. Do you think 20 weeks of pregnancy is fun? Idiot.
June 3rd, 2009 at 2:32 pmConservativeForProgress Says:
Statistics (linked above) prove that most abortions are simply elective for the convenience of the mother, many of whom have multiple abortions out of convenience. I’d be happy to explain to my own mother, wife, sister or daughter that they should not chose to participate in the premeditated killing of a baby in utero for their own convenience.
Bad, bad selfish women who don’t want to raise a baby alone in their world. Who want to continue their education so they can have a better life because being poor in their country sucks. Selfish, selfish women who see a severally handicapped child as not a blessing to their family, but the curse that will tear their family apart.
Bad, selfish women who have abortion for a million reasons, all of them valid in that time and point of their lives.
It is amazing what a bit of empathy, compassion and listening to the stories of women will do to your views on abortion.
BTW< I’ve noticed on this thread that the most vocal pro-choice dudes (just making an assumption here and yes I know what that makes of me) seem to avoid responding to the obvious women on this thread. I wonder why that is. Can’t take an uppity woman guys?
June 3rd, 2009 at 2:33 pmthat should say Anti-abortion dudes, not pro-choice.
June 3rd, 2009 at 2:36 pmblush…..
Boy this a conversation of men isn’ it ? Abortions for birth control ? Right, like abortion is a root canal. How many times do you think a uterus which is a very fragil organ can be scraped ? Late term, early term for whatever reason is a very, very hard decision. Dr Tiller was a compassionate person and the world is less because he was killed by a fanatic, who had supporters that also should be tried for murder.
June 3rd, 2009 at 2:36 pm…
i’m sorry that cfp has quit.
“quitters never win
and winners never quit.”
– woody hayes
:(
June 3rd, 2009 at 2:37 pmCFP
June 3rd, 2009 at 2:38 pmI didn’t ask how you would explain to them about aborting for their own convenience, but until you are willing to admit that late-term abortions are the almost always the result of a fetus threatening the mother’s life, you will likely not understand the difference. But I’ll ask again – how would you explain to them that you think their fetus’ life is worth more than theirs? By claiming that they shouldn’t have the right to make the decision, you are making the assertion that they should be able to be forced, at least by a court, to risk their life for the sake of a fetus that is more than likely not viable (healthy fetus’ don’t often threaten the mother’s life, though rarely it can happen).
texaslady
I’m a woman. Using the term “abortion-as-birth-control” is a quick and dirty method of referring to your stereotypical abortion, that is to say, an abortion that is not spontaneous, to end a pregnancy caused by rape or incest, to protect the life of the mother, or as a humane end to a severely deformed or not viable fetus.
For the record, I don’t particularly approve of such things, but again, I refuse to tell other people how to live their lives, and scientifically, it’s not a baby until it’s viable, so I have to argument against it. That doesn’t mean I would choose to do such a thing.
Just wanted to clarify.
June 3rd, 2009 at 2:40 pmBlack Widow – No , because CFP and his ilk are ignorant and can’t use intelligent conversation about sexual results. They need to read a medical book rather than their bibles. Also, how about mandatory vasectomies for single men fathering more than 1 chid and not supporting the child ?
June 3rd, 2009 at 2:42 pmThese right to lifers are so vocal until it hits their wallets.
Where did our little prostitute go? You know… the one who was “pimped out”?
I was hoping to get some clarification on “non-religious religious extremists”.
June 3rd, 2009 at 2:44 pmC4P still hasn’t shown me sound statistics and research that proves most women have abortions because they feel like it.
June 3rd, 2009 at 2:45 pmConservativeForProgress Says:
I have. http://www.physiciansforlife.org/content/view/1252/26/
Sending us to a right wing website will not earn you any points.
June 3rd, 2009 at 2:47 pmIf men could get pregnant we wouldn’t even be having this discussion.
June 3rd, 2009 at 2:47 pmHah! Very few abortions are done to save the womans life. Face the facts you coward baby killer, it is almost always done out of convenience. The mother decides she is ” not ready ” or doesn’t have enough money to raise a child. The idiot moron of a mother should’ve thought about that before she got plowed raw, but the mother is proably a liberal meaning she DOESN’T THINK AT ALL.
In cases of rape and incest ( both very very rare ) I support abortion, but other than that it is murder and needs to be stopped.
June 3rd, 2009 at 2:50 pmDO NOT respond to IH. Again, it’s Merdad. Ignore him please.
June 3rd, 2009 at 2:52 pmOh, that’s where our prostitute friend went — to research off-topic posts it hoped could derail the conversation.
Pathetic.
Probably hoping to avoid explaining the concept of “religious extremists” who fail to offer any religious views.
June 3rd, 2009 at 2:53 pmCFP – for every argument you can find opinions on both sides. Now opinions based on fact rather than opinion is something else. Will you step up and raise the child that would have been aborted as your own ?
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