ThinkFast: June 4, 2009
ThinkFast: June 4, 2009
In a speech today at Cairo University in Egypt, President Obama pledged to “seek a new beginning between the United States and Muslims around the world.” Obama “was forceful and at times scolding as he promoted democracy in Egypt, sent a warning to Israelis against building new settlements, and acknowledged that the United States had fallen short of its ideals, particularly in the Iraq war.”
Israel accused Obama yesterday of “failing to acknowledge what they called clear understandings with the Bush administration that allowed Israel to build West Bank settlement housing within certain guidelines while still publicly claiming to honor a settlement ‘freeze.’” In 2003, Israel agreed to freeze “all settlement activity (including natural growth of settlements).”
Today, the Washington Post has an article about how progressive groups “are now ascendant, enjoying clout not seen in a generation and benefiting from close access to a White House brimming with former colleagues. Many of the groups spent the Bush years championing policies that had little chance of being adopted; now, their ideas and positions are at the center of the Washington debate.”
“House Speaker Nancy Pelosi on Wednesday issued an ultimatum to her committee chairmen: move climate change legislation by June 19 or risk losing jurisdiction over the bill.” After the Energy and Commerce Committee approved the bill last month, Ways and Means Chairman Charlie Rangel (D-NY) and Agriculture Chairman Collin Peterson (D-MN) balked, seeking to delay or significantly alter the bill.
A federal judge threw out more than three dozen lawsuits yesterday claiming that the nation’s major telecom companies had illegally assisted in President Bush’s warrantless wiretapping program. The judge said that while the cases raised important constitutional issues, Congress had left no doubt about its “unequivocal intention” when it granted retroactive immunity to participants in the program.
Yesterday, Attorney General Eric Holder “overturned a Bush administration ruling in January that immigrants do not have a constitutional right to effective legal counsel in deportation proceedings.”
House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) has issued an order for the House to “begin posting representatives’ expense reports online, giving the public easy access to records of the millions of dollars lawmakers spend on staff and items such as catering, cars, computers and TVs.” Sen. Tom Coburn (R-OK) said that “he would introduce a bill requiring the expense records be posted online in the Senate, as well.”
New Hampshire became the sixth state to approve marriage equality yesterday, when Gov. John Lynch (D) signed a bill allowing gay couples to wed. The law, which bars “lawsuits against religious groups and workers if they refuse to participate in gay weddings or celebrations that go against their faiths,” goes into effect Jan. 1, 2010.
Czech Interior Minister Martin Pecina, who chaired a meeting of the European Union’s interior ministers, said today that EU countries are likely to take “several dozen” former prisoners from Guantanamo Bay. “It’s hard to give numbers because that is up to member states, but I think several dozen people” could be admitted, said Pecina.
And finally: Disgraced former Illinois governor Rod Blagojevich told a Chicago radio station earlier this week that he was “moved” when he saw his wife “eat a large, hairy spider on the premiere of NBC’s ‘I’m a Celebrity…Get Me Out of Here!’ He says she ate the unconventional snack because she loves her two young daughters.”
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Israel accused Obama yesterday of “failing to acknowledge what they called clear understandings with the Bush administration that allowed Israel to build West Bank settlement housing within certain guidelines while still publicly claiming to honor a settlement ‘freeze.’”
In the infamous word of our former VP, SO?
Watch the Israeli right wing claim foul and try to spin this into something it isn’t.
Evenhandedness is not a sin. President Obama is showing Israel that if it can’t cease grabbing other’s land with illegal settlements, America may not support them.
It’s about frigg’n time.
June 4th, 2009 at 9:06 amObama’s speech in Egypt
I have heard some few bits and pieces of his speech and I applaud him. It is so refreshing to have a President who can and does lead by example; who employs pragmatism rather than blind ideology; who is articulate and competent.
For all the sniping and back-biting with trolls here on TP, I do hope that we can all just celebrate this opportunity for a new beginning.
Obama is leading the effort to “win the hearts and minds” of the people in the Middle East. He will succeed where GDumbya’s “Shock and Awe” failed so miserably.
June 4th, 2009 at 9:09 amMaddow went down the Operation Rescue rabbit hole pretty deep last night.
Apparently, Dr. Tiller’s killer was a part of, and was communicating regularly with Operation Rescue. This killer had been reported to the FBI on at least 4 recent incidents, the last as recent as the day before the church killing.
The FBI did nothing.
Let’s root these freaks out of their hiding places and put the full force of justice behind it.
Abortion is legal. Killing Doctors is not. I would submit an investigation of the Kansas FBI offices is also warranted.
June 4th, 2009 at 9:10 amZimzone –> it is way past time for the Zionist cabal in Washington, D.C., to be neutralized; I think Obama can effectively return the U.S. to the role of “honest broker” in our dealings with all parties and nations in the Middle East.
June 4th, 2009 at 9:13 amIsrael accused Obama yesterday of “failing to acknowledge what they called clear understandings with the Bush administration that allowed Israel to build West Bank settlement housing within certain guidelines while still publicly claiming to honor a settlement ‘freeze.’”
___________
We have altered the deal. Pray we don’t alter it further.
Actually, scratch that. Pray that we do, and that we force Israel to start tearing down some of their illegal colonies in Palestine.
June 4th, 2009 at 9:13 amThis is why we need openness and transparency in government. Bush & Co ran around and arrived at “understandings” with a foreign government with zero oversight and approval from Congress.
Finally some even handedness in our relations with Israel and the rest of the Middle EAst.
June 4th, 2009 at 9:19 amA federal judge threw out more than three dozen lawsuits yesterday claiming that the nation’s major telecom companies had illegally assisted in President Bush’s warrantless wiretapping program. The judge said that while the cases raised important constitutional issues, Congress had left no doubt about its “unequivocal intention” when it granted retroactive immunity to participants in the program.
The law that Congress passed, granting retroactive immunity, is plainly unconstitutional itself, as is the actions of both the telecoms and the government in the warrantless wiretapping program. (Which is clearly why so many progressives were upset with Obama when he actually voted in favor of this bill, after saying he would filibuster it.) This should and will be escalated to the Supreme Court, and we can only hope that SCOTUS judges the matter based on the U.S. Constitution, and not politics.
June 4th, 2009 at 9:20 amI’d just like to say, that yesterday, with our infestation of trolls gone wild, I observed NOT ONE of them CONDEMNED O’Rally (Supporter of the American Taliban) for his harassment of Dr. Tiller (gynecologist, and practicing Christian) over the years.
Oh, but they sure jumped on the proverbial right wing talking point bandwagon of blaming the Arkansas killings as a product of left wing ideology, which of course is unfounded and not true.
And the worse sort of hypocrisy? Blaming Keith Olbermann for the recruiter’s murders.
WTF???
It really does make me wonder, besides being pesky antagonists, can they not perform individual thinking abilities? Or are they so brainwashed, that normal cognitive skills are atrophying?
Seriously, could not one troll have posted that what O’rally (Supporter of the American Taliban) had done was deplorable, and wrong, and that he should immediately issue an apology, before any other terrorist attacks towards our citizens take place?
June 4th, 2009 at 9:24 amFake Progressive Poster Alert!!!
(Damn these kids and summer vacations anyways)
But I digress.
Hi Trajan? Going to Cabo this year?
June 4th, 2009 at 9:26 amWow. I thought this had been wiped out weeks ago. It’s good to see that gay couples in New Hampshire can follow the motto “Live Free or Die” to the former suggestion.
June 4th, 2009 at 9:27 amZimzone & tom says:
Long past time to pull the plug on AIPAC’s influence in Washington.
June 4th, 2009 at 9:28 amIsrael is willing to fight Muslims to the last American.
How refreshing it is, after eight years of cowboy diplomacy (”shock and awe”, “bring it on”, etc.) which basically reduced us to playground taunting and brawling with the Muslim world, a grownup has stepped up to the plate.
Obama’s speech called for respect, understanding, and reconciliation — without surrendering any American values or principles. Things that thinking people recognize as being far more helpful than the tactics of our past regime. Of course, those whose interests depend on the constant generation of hatred (terrorists and extremists on their side, conservative pundits and extremists on our side) will do their best to discredit President Obama and his message.
June 4th, 2009 at 9:28 amIsrael’s so-called agreement with the Bush administration as that the U.S. would provide cover to Israel while they violated their part of the “Road Map,” (ending all settlement including natural growth) while the (Israel) publicly continued to claim they were honoring the settlement freeze.
Some interesting information on this link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_bank#Settlements_and_international_law
June 4th, 2009 at 9:28 amNo more “wink wink nod nod hand-shake under the table” deals with Israel? Will we finally acknowledge that Israel is nuclear, and a possible threat to the world?
PEACE
June 4th, 2009 at 9:30 amSee how easy it is to take away Constitutional rights with impunity?
What Congress did in granting retroactive immunity will likely stand constitutional muster.
June 4th, 2009 at 9:32 amGood comments early this morning folks.
June 4th, 2009 at 9:33 amIt’s high time that the Israeli cabal that ran Washington is not dominant– Israel itself must recognize that fact and their actions toward Palestinians must be reined in.
Obama’s speech in Egypt is being well-received today; American pundits, however, will bloviate in their attempt to make themselves look authoritative. John Roberts on CNN today was realy pathetic — his co-anchors and guest commenters were more even.
AmericasBack – same faux concern troll, different moniker.
Please don’t feed the trolls! Let’s have just one day where the trolls don’t hijack the threads.
I can dream…
PEACE
June 4th, 2009 at 9:34 amPelosi tienes cajones ahora? Verdad?
June 4th, 2009 at 9:34 amyesterday, with our infestation of trolls gone wild
I sprayed my keyboard with Troll-B-Gone® last night. So far, it seems to be working. We’ll see how long it takes before we need another application!
June 4th, 2009 at 9:37 amAmericasBack – same faux concern troll, different moniker.
Please don’t feed the trolls! Let’s have just one day where the trolls don’t hijack the threads.
I can dream…
PEACE
That’s why The Zoo was born…
June 4th, 2009 at 9:37 am(yawn)
So, did you pass your classes this year, or will we be the unfortunate individuals to be blessed with your presence all year long?
Maybe you could start up another anti-TP blog, to which the only traffic you received was from a handful of us.
June 4th, 2009 at 9:38 amright wingers are still waiting to be told what to think about Obama’s speech
I’m sure it will have something to do with teleprompters
June 4th, 2009 at 9:40 amI applaud the call for complete transparency in the reporting of Congressional slush funds. These clowns have been on the dole far too long.
June 4th, 2009 at 9:40 amWhat’s a “nussences” ?
June 4th, 2009 at 9:43 amAmericasBack Says:
So Fu(k off!
After you, ma’am.
PEACE
June 4th, 2009 at 9:43 amI’m waiting for true honesty in the middle east discussion.
The President should have said “We all need to quit killing in the name of religion.”
That’s the big elephant in the room that no one wants to talk about. Why does the middle east have so many problems? because of religion.
I know this upsets some people, but its the truth. Too bad that religion is such a third rail that there is no discussing it.
June 4th, 2009 at 9:43 amIsrael accused Obama yesterday of “failing to acknowledge what they called clear understandings with the Bush administration…
____________________________________________________________
Israel is acting like a spoiled child whose parents finally decided to start enforcing rules. As in, “I know about the curfew, but I didn’t know you were going to actually ground me if I didn’t get home on time!”
June 4th, 2009 at 9:45 amI was just reading on wikipedia the Lutheran position on the antichrist – which incidentally could describe Rush Limbaugh:
“…that he recognizes only those as members of the Christian Church who bow to his authority; and that, like a deluge, he had inundated the whole Church with his antichristian doctrines.”
Limpdick’s just a schlub with a microphone, makes no policy decisions, and yet the raving lunatics (aka trolls) think of him as an infallible deity. Gee, look who’s worshipping the antichrist after all.
June 4th, 2009 at 9:46 amEarth to Israel! Bush is not President anymore. Time to move on.
June 4th, 2009 at 9:47 amHouse Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) has issued an order for the House to “begin posting representatives’ expense reports online…
___________________________________________________________
I wonder if the scandal surrounding the British MPs’ crazy personal spending of taxpayer money influenced this decision. Not that it matters — transparency will help keep expenses in check, and limit the runaway feeling of entitlement that infected the British lawmakers. It’s nice to see the GOP on board with this, too.
June 4th, 2009 at 9:49 amvinylspear Says:
What’s a “nussences” ?
Trajan speak.
June 4th, 2009 at 9:52 amAnother fun one this morning:
“ignorent”
Israel accused Obama yesterday of “failing to acknowledge what they called clear understandings with the Bush administration that allowed Israel to build West Bank settlement housing within certain guidelines while still publicly claiming to honor a settlement ‘freeze.’”
Clearly President Obama is doing the right thing, abrogating the wink, wink, nod crapola that the BushitCo had in place.
June 4th, 2009 at 9:53 amSo Israel had an understanding with Bush that they would both lie about freezing settlements? And now they’re upset that Obama won’t lie for them as well as Bush did? That’s really their complaint?
June 4th, 2009 at 9:54 amOh, oh! C4P is back. Time to get out the Extra Heavy Duty Troll-B-Gone® . . . Phhhhhhhhhhhhtttt! Take that, troll.
June 4th, 2009 at 9:56 amThe funny part is, Trajan knows that the discussion of theology and religion is a hot topic here, and is trying it’s best to start another “heated” debate.
I’m going to commence either Operation: Ignore, or at least continue Operation: No Direct Contact.
June 4th, 2009 at 9:58 am(yawn)
So, did you pass your classes this year, or will we be the unfortunate individuals to be blessed with your presence all year long?
Maybe you could start up another anti-TP blog, to which the only traffic you received was from a handful of us.
If you’re referring to me, I finished my J.D in 2006. The Zoo was never intended to be anti-TP, just anti-troll. That modest little blog receives an average of over 1,000 views per day, and has had more than one million views since its inception.
June 4th, 2009 at 9:58 amBnF, DrxJB was talking to someone other than you…3 gesses hu?
June 4th, 2009 at 10:01 amNo Briseadh, that post was indirectly intended for Trajan.
June 4th, 2009 at 10:01 amEven though I’m a rare visitor at The Zoo, I am proud of what you and the others have created.
DRx, no worries. That’s why I prefaced with “If you’re referring to me.” I’m kind of proud of that site as well, though I don’t have nearly enough time to generate threads these days.
June 4th, 2009 at 10:07 amMethinks Hal will look real mean in Orange.
June 4th, 2009 at 10:07 amCFP, always finding a way to whine about Obama
what a sore loser
someone call him a waaambulance
June 4th, 2009 at 10:09 amActually, yes I am attacking your spelling. Typographical errors, bold type and screaming are not the characteristics of an educated debate or an educated individual.
June 4th, 2009 at 10:14 amI don’t think AmericasBack is a troll, but AB, try to be a bit less defensive about it
June 4th, 2009 at 10:14 amwatchpuppy and his irrelevant, usually inaccurate links to nonsense are a constant fixture here
as if anyone doubts the ignorance and cowardice of right wingers anymore, he still feels the need to prove it
June 4th, 2009 at 10:16 amAnother Trajan Gem:
“We except diversity”
And yet another Trajan speak:
“think that any county (or people) who have…”
Europe had counties?
June 4th, 2009 at 10:17 amGood Morning youngsters,..Great posts so far….Thank you….Congrat’s go out to N.H. ….
Was reading another post from Winter Patriot and it saddened me deeply as most of the last 8 miserable year’s have…It was about a young man who died yesterday. Our Gove. is claiming it was a suicide, maybe so…I can’t recall his name but he was one of the one’s being held as a detainee for the past 7 years, a mere child when captured…Swept up in the bull shit bush madness and like all the children in all these countries ignored at best, brutalized, starved, killed with no thought at all and their names removed forever with little to no notice….Links to future famalies, born with hope and quickly removed with little notice….
Noticed above state of disgust mentioned President Obama had only released 2 prisoners when according to him bull shit bush had released many….Excuse me old troll one, guess you have forgotten the big picture here which is bull shit bush and the backer’s of his evil including you caused this genocide and detaining of people for all these year’s..I wonder if those that back all this evil and the killing of children and our own docteres could of met the 7 year limit starting at age 10 and being held and brutalized for 7 year’s…I think not…Let there be no more war’s, end them now and make our own gov along with Israel own up to their madness and stop the murder of innocent’s here and around the world…..Peace, Blessings and Justice..
June 4th, 2009 at 10:19 am.
Israel is a country.
Jews are a race.
Judaism is a religion.
Country, Race, and Religion are all nouns. Each represents a different concept. Their meanings can be found at m-w.com. Look them up, then return for your next lesson in World Affairs.
June 4th, 2009 at 10:20 amIs it just me or does anyone else see a trend in which watchdog’s barks have less and less bite?
June 4th, 2009 at 10:21 amIt’s ok, you little pansy, you are terrified enough for all of us
June 4th, 2009 at 10:22 amwatchdog@#58
First of all, you are quoting from a journal run by the strange Korean Moonie cult.
Secondly, a person does not have control over their middle name. I don’t believe he ever saw his father after the age of two, being raised by his mother and grandparents (as a Christian).
Third, I think you are interpreting “heard the call to prayer” the wrong way. It means literally that he heard the call to prayer and not any other meaning.
Finally, why did you not mention this:
June 4th, 2009 at 10:22 am“He said Hamas must put an end to violence, recognize past agreements, and recognize Israels right to exist. “
WTF? Is this really TP? I’ve never been attacked here before.
my apologies if my prior post comes off as an attack.
June 4th, 2009 at 10:24 amOkay, here’s where I have issues with blotchdog and her idiotic links.
Jimmy Carter rates Cuba more peaceful than U.S.
No, former PRESIDENT Carter is an ENDORSER of the study group, which rated the countries.
Secondly, stating that almost any country is more peaceful than the U.S. is not really going out on a limb, is it?
June 4th, 2009 at 10:24 amSo, the above linked quote is not only misleading, it’s irrelevant.
It’s like saying the Cincinnati Bengals are a better football team than the Lions. Well DUH!
amerika’s back@#59,
June 4th, 2009 at 10:25 amIsrael is NOT a religion. The majority of Israelis are opposed to Israel’s foreign policy. Why can’t we be? Many Jewish pepple throughout the world are opposed to Israel’s policies.
AmericaisBack, Hey, don’t go away, stay and debate your point of view. You have to understand that we have been invaded the last few days with a new brand of hate trolls and people are just fed up. I don’t think you are a troll, and it wasn’t right that someone called you that. Would love to hear your thoughts on the middle east issue.
June 4th, 2009 at 10:26 amI beg your parden state, it was not you…Not enough coffee this morning..My disgust was aimed at constipated for progress….Please forgive…Blessings
June 4th, 2009 at 10:26 amHey Witch1,
Good to “read” ya.
“ConstipateForProgress”
I like it. May I use it when I address her?
PB & J to ya.
June 4th, 2009 at 10:29 amDRxJapanese Beetle Says:
And yet another Trajan speak:
“think that any county (or people) who have…”
Europe had counties?
Countie Dracula? But only to his closest friends, the rest of the peasants had to call him “Count”.
June 4th, 2009 at 10:33 ampoor little toiletintexas, still quivering in fear, even of CAPTURED “terrrorists”
what a pussy
June 4th, 2009 at 10:33 amJohnintexas Says
June 4th, 2009 at 10:20 am
This pusillanimous wimp will be impeached . . . he sealed his political fate today.
_________________________________________________________
On what charge?
June 4th, 2009 at 10:34 amBack at ya Dear DRxJ…..Yep! Good to read you here today as well…Many Blessings to you…I’m outta here today, gonna be 90 and I have to run a couple errand’s before it start’s to cook…Bear bath day when I get back…LOL…Happy posting all..P.B. & J.
June 4th, 2009 at 10:35 amJohnintexas,
Correct me if I am wrong, but you think Obama will be impeached because he did not mention the word terrorism in a speech?
We didn’t impeach Bush for approving torture, we sure as hell aren’t going to impeach Obama for not saying the word torture in a speech. Besides, the fascist Republican wingnuts that might want Obama impeached don’t have a large enough minority to impeach Obama.
Johnintexas, you live in the fascist Republican fantasy reality. In the real world, we do not impeach presidents for failing to appease the wingnut base of the Republican Party.
June 4th, 2009 at 10:37 amjohnnyboy, maybe you will hold your breath until Obama is impeached, we can all hope.
June 4th, 2009 at 10:38 amMr.Bungle Says:
That’s the big elephant in the room that no one wants to talk about. Why does the middle east have so many problems? because of religion.
June 4th, 2009 at 9:43 am
____________
Bullshit.
Religion is merely a veneer covering over the real issues in the Middle East – ineffective governance, rampant inequality, restricted speech, and dwindling water supply, not to mention the Israel/Palestine conflict. The problems are secular, and religiously-based violence is just a symptom.
June 4th, 2009 at 10:38 amOh, oh! JinT is back. Time to get out the Extra,Extra Heavy Duty Troll-B-Gone® . . . Phhhhhhhhhhhhtttt! Take that, troll.
p.s. — no one would expect you to understand President Obama’s speech in Cairo . . . that would take much, much more intelligence than your poor little pea-brain can muster; you see, Obama is more nuanced than GDumbya’s “noun, verb, 9/11″ drivel
June 4th, 2009 at 10:40 amWhy does Joanintexas have her panties in a bunch?
June 4th, 2009 at 10:40 amDoes she still wish to crush the testicles of little boys?
New Hampshire became the sixth state to approve marriage equality yesterday, when Gov. John Lynch (D) signed a bill allowing gay couples to wed. The law, which bars “lawsuits against religious groups and workers if they refuse to participate in gay weddings or celebrations that go against their faiths,” goes into effect Jan. 1, 2010.
It’s good to see New Hampshire living up to its’ state motto.
June 4th, 2009 at 10:41 amJohnintexas,
Did you know that the Reagan/GHWB administration and the CIA strongly aided the Taliban? And General McChrystal said he expected the Taliban to be included in a future Afghan government.
June 4th, 2009 at 10:42 amI see another all crap not cattle from the poor state of tex=ass is still on a verbal killing spree..Poor little black hearted reich winged trolls, it must be hell to be so chicken hearted, all they can write about is evil and killing…..Please don’t feed these trolls to much while I’m gone, they will end up like their leader limpdick, unable to fit back under their bridge’s…Blessings
June 4th, 2009 at 10:43 amAnd robust “Allahu akbar” back at you pee-dog!
June 4th, 2009 at 10:48 amJohnintexas Says:
6000 words and not once did this clown mention TERRORISM . . .
June 4th, 2009 at 10:20 am
_____________
I know – great, isn’t it? It’s about time our leaders approached the Middle East from the perspective of peaceful engagement rather than the usual anti-terror drivel.
June 4th, 2009 at 10:48 amAmericasBack: Well that not really suprising, seeing as they are getting ready to start their own country. Can’t wait to they go.
June 4th, 2009 at 10:49 amyou’re messing with texas
June 4th, 2009 at 10:49 amWell in texass, get this everyone – the waffles are made in the shape of …wait for it… texass! Un’fng’believable!
It’s only to counter balance the billions of waffles made daily in the shape of Colorado (square) ;)
June 4th, 2009 at 10:51 amAmericasBack, if I was wrong about you, I apologize. We’ve had an infestation of hate trolls of late, and most enter by trying to appear progressive (even hijacking the names of regulars) in order to get a “recommend” or two, then they proceed to unleash their racism and bigotry.
PEACE
June 4th, 2009 at 10:51 amBriseadh na Firefly Says:
See how easy it is to take away Constitutional rights with impunity?
What Congress did in granting retroactive immunity will likely stand constitutional muster.
I totally disagree with your statement, IF SCOTUS actually applies the Constitution to the question, and refuses to apply the “Unitary Executive” b.s. (political rationale).
U.S. Constitution, Section 9: No bill of attainder or ex post facto Law (a law that retroactively changes the legal consequences of acts committed or the legal status of facts and relationships that existed prior to the enactment of the law) shall be passed.
June 4th, 2009 at 10:54 amhttp://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/constitution.articlei.html#section9
It is going to be difficult for Obama to make any headway in the Middle East when he is battling ideologues not only in the Middle East, but also here at home.
Check this clip out of Fox News, kind of missing the point on dealing with radical Muslims.
http://progressnotcongress.org/blog/?p=1562
June 4th, 2009 at 10:55 amAmericasBack Says:
Theology and Religion? What about all the bad mouthing of Israel here? I think that could go down as a theological debate.
I for one (athough I’m not an expert …or Jewish) think that any county (or people) who have gone through what the Jewish people went through in WWII, should have some sympathy. Shit man, Hitler tried to WIPE OUT their ENTIRE RACE (and would have if he won the war). Think about that.
Well, and not ‘attacking’ you here, as you and I have no interaction yet, but Israel is not a religion. It is a country. To conflate any country with a religion is wrong in the extreme. The issue is not theological, nor is it racial.
It is not reasonable to expect that when dealing with a foreign nation one considers how much “sympathy” should be used in judging how treaties are conformed to, or how policies are to be judged. Sympathy for historical matters has nothing to do with national policy.
Bear in mind that the Catholic church attacked jews, in general, during the inquisitions — witches were a sideline. Jews were the targets, and were tortured and murdered in great numbers, all in the name of the christian god. So, Hitler is not alone in the history of the persecution of jews. Also of note is that Hitler did not JUST target jews, and at the core of the whole nazi ideology was the purity of race, which means that if the “if he won” scenerio you present came true, anyone NOT a “pure” german would be in grave danger. If we are going to get hypothetical with “if Hitler won”, that is. Think about that.
And having sympathy for the past transgressions of, in our examples, the nazis and the catholics, does not mean that they are then allowed to do as they please. You do seem to understand that, I think.
Asking for sympathy serves no purpose in your actual argument, though it has been offered by others to argue that israel should be allowed to act under different morals and rules, because of their history. That is a wrong-headed approach, and, where I have seen it, is just an attempt to justify the unjustifiable. I am not sure what your point of bringing it up is. Perhaps you could clarify sometime?
June 4th, 2009 at 10:55 amI just flagged JohninTexas for calling Witch1 a “POS”.
Enough’s enough with that jerk!
June 4th, 2009 at 11:03 amWoo hoo!! Yay! Congrats New Hampshire!
June 4th, 2009 at 11:05 ammary lacewing Says:
I just flagged JohninTexas for calling Witch1 a “POS”.
Enough’s enough with that jerk!
Enough’s been enough for a couple of days. I’ve been flagging his outright racism and homophobia, and copying the text into the flag. TP is asleep at the switch but will eventually wake up.
June 4th, 2009 at 11:06 amJoanintexas,
June 4th, 2009 at 11:10 amDo you also whine like this in your mother’s basement?
Joanintexas,
June 4th, 2009 at 11:11 amCan you think on your own, or are your neurons so full of right wing drivel that they fail to synapse on their own?
Joanintexas,
June 4th, 2009 at 11:11 amDo men disgust you?
Joanintexas,
June 4th, 2009 at 11:12 amWhen in a possible confrontation, do you pee your pantyhose?
Thank you Mary, I did not read the the tex=ass posters remark and missed it…No matter, it just a black hearted little troll spewing her leader limpdick ’s hate speech..LOL…Blessings Dear one.
June 4th, 2009 at 11:13 amJoanintexas,
June 4th, 2009 at 11:13 amIs it that time of the month?
Joanintexas,
June 4th, 2009 at 11:14 amAre you a fan of the 2 piece swimsuit, or a onsie?
outhouse says:
. those are just points off the top of my head.
There is also a hole in your head…but that’s beside the point!
June 4th, 2009 at 11:14 amJoanintexas,
June 4th, 2009 at 11:15 amHave you received your GED diploma yet?
DRxJapanese Beetle Says:
Joanintexas,
Do men disgust you?
DRx, I’m addressing you but you’re scarcely the only commenter doing this: Referring to any commenter as “she” or “her” or changing the handle to something feminine connotes that being female is weak or less than being a male. In other words, it’s insulting to women to suggest that someone like the Texas troll is a “girl.”
And, yes, I’ll get down off my high horse now.
June 4th, 2009 at 11:15 amJoanintexas,
June 4th, 2009 at 11:15 amWhen you wish to crush little boys testicles, is this a fantasy, or reality?
Wow – glad there were finally some apologies to AmericasBack. I guess I also missed the troll fest yesterday, but can’t see one thing he/she said that was ‘trollish.’ I may disagree with his/her comments regarding Israel, but people ARE entitled to their considered, sane beliefs and understanding on matters. The refusal to walk in lock-step and not expecting others to is a hallmark of being a progressive, right? So we aren’t all going to agree on every single thing.
As for JohninTexas – it’s people like you that cause me to hope that Texas DOES secede from the Union, without opposition, and the sooner the better.
June 4th, 2009 at 11:17 amJohnintexas,
Please tell me you don’t actually believe that wingnut propaganda you are trying to dish out. No one in their right mind is still pulling out the “Obama isn’t an American” talking point anymore because it’s been so utterly discredited.
The ACORN talking point lost energy so long ago, you would think the radicals would get tired of posting it. I guess no matter how much you discredit their talking points, they don’t really ever abandon them, in the hopes that idiots still believe them to be true.
Vote tampering? After the bullshit the fascist Republican Party pulled in Florida? It is the height of hypocrisy for Republicans to be pointing a finger at Obama when they have actively fought to disenfranchise millions of voters for years.
I guess when you get paid per post, it doesn’t really matter what drivel you post.
June 4th, 2009 at 11:20 amJohnintexas Says:
84/85 Why will Obongo be impeached?
Who is this “Obongo” you keep referring to?
June 4th, 2009 at 11:23 amActually gummble, although I do agree with what you posted, by no means was I trying to demean the female. There is a reason for the madness.
June 4th, 2009 at 11:26 amLet me explain.
First off, I’m not entirely convinced Johnintexas is a “he”.
It’s posts are somewhat similar to good_golly, who claimed to be a soccer mom from Florida.
Second, I was actually trying to “goad” it into attacking me for calling it a woman, which unfortunately, it never took the bait. I purposely used many a description of “she” and “her” in my posts, to get it off tangent.
But alas, my plot has been spoiled, and I will no longer being addressing it as “her”, although it does piss me off when it attacks a regular here.
My apologies, though
Witch1 Says:
Seriously though, this awful poster, who seems to be obsessed with Obama’s birth certificate, is being quite reckless to mess with a Witch! :)
June 4th, 2009 at 11:37 amDRx, I’m pretty sure that good golly (or goon_golly, as I preferred) is ConservativeForProgress. The goon was an idiot, and prone to posting links to articles while cherry-picking them (just like CFP) and when I’ve referred to CFP as “AKA goon_golly” s/he hasn’t denied it. And, to be fair, the goon never came off as blatantly racist and homophobic as this troll does, constantly.
June 4th, 2009 at 11:37 amgummble,
June 4th, 2009 at 11:44 amTrue dat.
This “racist and homophobic” troll is also probably a sexist, which is why I was so trying to get under it’s skin by calling it a female.
toiletintex-a$$ says:
Congrats: Admitting that you have a pointed head is the 1st step toward rehab.
June 4th, 2009 at 12:08 pmConservativeForProgress Says:
By the way, gumbled:
If TP doesn’t want us to be “posting links to articles,” or quoting from articles, why does it provide for a “blockquote” and a “link” function? It appears to me that those are there to allow for blockquotes and links, but perhaps you have a different, more gumbled theory. Or is it just that you only want links and blockquotes from articles with which you agree?
Your reading skills need some work. I have no objection to links and blockquotes, and have criticized you for not using them. What I do object to is linking to an article while making claims (or cherry-picking quotes) which are not borne out by the article, in context.
June 4th, 2009 at 12:08 pmConservativeForProgress Says:
I hope you are referring to the parody troll (i.e. liberal disquising herself as a pseudo-conservative) known as JohninTexas.
I’m sure you’d like to believe that the troll is a parody, rather than see it for the nasty rightwing bigot that it is. If you have any evidence that it’s a hoax, feel free to trot it out.
There has been no stronger defender of gay rights on this site than me (in favor of gay marriage, in favor of repeal of DADT, etc…). I am considered a “Conservative” on some issues and “Progressive” on others: hence: ConservativeForProgress.
If you have any evidence that anyone but yourself thinks of you as “progressive” trot that out as well. The fact that you’re not a homophobe isn’t really a qualification.
June 4th, 2009 at 12:11 pmCageyCretin Says:
AmericasBack Says:
I for one (athough I’m not an expert …or Jewish) think that any county (or people) who have gone through what the Jewish people went through in WWII, should have some sympathy. Shit man, Hitler tried to WIPE OUT their ENTIRE RACE (and would have if he won the war). Think about that.
Asking for sympathy serves no purpose in your actual argument, though it has been offered by others to argue that israel should be allowed to act under different morals and rules, because of their history.
I may be mistaken, but what I understood from AmericasBack’s comment was that Israel (well, it’s Jewish inhabitants), having suffered under Nazi oppression years ago, should HAVE some sympathy towards other people, not that Israel should RECEIVE sympathy from said oppression while performing some oppression of their own.
Maybe this was a slight case of misunderstanding while reading AmericasBack’s comment? Other than that, I agree with CageyCretin’s comment as well.
June 4th, 2009 at 12:11 pmLuis Chapulin M Says:
CageyCretin Says:
Asking for sympathy serves no purpose in your actual argument, though it has been offered by others to argue that israel should be allowed to act under different morals and rules, because of their history.
Meh. Messed up the nesting italics. In my previous comment, that paragraph was quoted from CageyCretin (just so there’s no confusion about to whom I was replying).
June 4th, 2009 at 12:13 pmI don’t think Obama’s remarks about Israel were out of line. Yes, the holocaust was an atrocity that should neither be denied nor forgotten. But of all people, they should know what it’s like to be the victim of genocide and oppression. That doesn’t give them the right to do wrong where the Palestinians are concerned. There are many Israelis who want to make peace, and so this is not a blanket condemnation of Jews… just a commentary about the government of Israel and its policies.
I commend Obama’s courage to call it like it is, despite the risk that criticizing anything Israel does will earn one the “antisemitism” badge. Would Americans ever tolerate senseless oppression committed by Blacks because ‘Oh the poor dears, they went through slavery and it was such a horrible thing and they’re traumatized’? Yes it was horrible. But there has to be fairness and justice. And what’s wrong is wrong, no matter who it’s coming from.
June 4th, 2009 at 12:22 pmScary Brown Chick Says:
There are many Israelis who want to make peace, and so this is not a blanket condemnation of Jews… just a commentary about the government of Israel and its policies.
I commend Obama’s courage to call it like it is, despite the risk that criticizing anything Israel does will earn one the “antisemitism” badge.
June 4th, 2009 at 12:22 pm
_____________
And he’ll earn it, don’t worry. I’m sure the conservative talking point factories are very busy picking apart every “anti-Semitic” and “terror-supporting” and “scary-Musliming” statement in the President’s speech.
I’m curious to see how the speech was received in the Sharq. It’s all they’re talking about on BBC Arabic, but I can’t get a sense of whether it was well-received or not.
June 4th, 2009 at 12:36 pmThe Bush administration chickens continue to come home to roost. Yesterday we find out about a secret deal where a “clear understandings with the Bush administration that allowed Israel to build West Bank settlement housing” was in place and the consequences of retroactive telecom immunity where a Judge threw out all cases against those companies.
One assumes Bush bypassed Congress when he forged this secret deal, which probably makes it illegal, and what we assumed would happen given the clear language of the retroactive immunity deal that Democrats fell all over themselves to get on board with. As ugly as these items are we will find even more ugly items coming from the Bush administration as time passed. Bush was clearly the worst President ever, making Bush, Hoover and Harding look downright good in comparison.
June 4th, 2009 at 12:48 pmgummble-bee-itch Says
June 4th, 2009 at 11:15 am
Referring to any commenter as “she” or “her” or changing the handle to something feminine connotes that being female is weak or less than being a male. In other words, it’s insulting to women to suggest that someone like the Texas troll is a “girl.”
_________________________________________________________
Thank you for saying that. I only wish I could recommend you more than once.
As long as we’re on the subject of manners (and at this point, I’m addressing everyone), I’d also like to point out that referring to people by vulgar terms for female anatomy is also offensive to women. Can we dispense with calling cowards “pu$$ies”? I promise not to use vulgar terms for male anatomy when referring to somebody who’s a complete jerk. That’s only fair, even though Dick Cheney makes it awfully hard to resist. BTW, “a$$hole” is still OK — everybody has one, and it’s not sexist.
And let’s not accuse people of being gay as an insult. There is nothing wrong with being gay.
I love a good Whack-a-Troll fest as much as anyone else, and I know how easy it is to get caught up with it. But let’s try to remember that we’re better than they are, and we can make our points without stooping to their level.
June 4th, 2009 at 1:13 pmLuis Chapulin M Says:
I may be mistaken, but what I understood from AmericasBack’s comment was that Israel (well, it’s Jewish inhabitants), having suffered under Nazi oppression years ago, should HAVE some sympathy towards other people, not that Israel should RECEIVE sympathy from said oppression while performing some oppression of their own.
If that was the intent, then I misread entirely. I don’t think I was being offensive in my post, but I will offer sincere apologies if I ranted on due to a mis-reading on my part.
Your point is well made, and I agree.
June 4th, 2009 at 1:20 pmJohnintexas – regarding the Birther’s lawsuits, the cases have been rejected three times by SCOTUS and a number of times by lower federal courts. Lack of standing and frivolous lawsuits are the major reasons. It makes for some interesting reading, if one wants to pursue this in depth. That is, read it somewhere else then WorldNetDaily or some of the other fringe publications you seem to love so much. Let me ask you a question. The individual who brought the first suit, Phillip J. Berg, is also a a 9/11 conspiracy theorist, and brought a RICO lawsuit charging President George W. Bush and 154 others with complicity in the 9/11 attacks, Was he right there as well?
June 4th, 2009 at 1:28 pmmisscoleopteramolly Says:
gummble-bee-itch Says
June 4th, 2009 at 11:15 am
Referring to any commenter as “she” or “her” or changing the handle to something feminine connotes that being female is weak or less than being a male. In other words, it’s insulting to women to suggest that someone like the Texas troll is a “girl.”
As long as we’re on the subject of manners …etc.
Oh, FINE!. I will do my best (though I am not one to toss out anatomy as insults, I have used the “she” style). However, in my own defense, the rare times I have called a troll “she” or “her” was not meant to denigrate women, nor to imply that being a woman is lesser — the point is to annoy said troll, as most of their ilk DO believe being feminine is weakness and inferior, thus being labeled such can sting.
If you want to insult someone you have to use words that actually insult them, whether you agree with the words being an insult or not (the value of an insult depends on the perception of the target, NOT on the perception of the person offering the insult).
But I also understand that it can convey an impression that is unintended. And, insults do not achieve anything in intelligent discourse. ….however, how often is the discourse with trolls within the realm of “intelligent discussion”? …. :)
June 4th, 2009 at 1:31 pmMiss Molly (is it safe to assume you are a “she”?),
So noted. I shall make every effort to refer to Limpdick as “limpdog” or something gender-neutral but equally worthy.
June 4th, 2009 at 1:39 pmJohnintexas Says: I’m a racist svinehund who hates America. I wants to make the great country of Texas. Seig Heil. An we’ll annex mejico, and use its brown people for slave labor. Yay Dixie. Down with the union. Lincoln was wrong.
June 4th, 2009 at 1:40 pmScary Brown Chick Says:
Miss Molly (is it safe to assume you are a “she”?),
So noted. I shall make every effort to refer to Limpdick as “limpdog” or something gender-neutral but equally worthy.
But, for that particular name, is it sexist, or more physiologically accurate?
To whit: for sexual congress for any purpose, the state of “limp” in a dick is useless. Therefore, said member in said state is incapable of fulfilling its intended function. What’s more is that he is known to be a user of viagara, and thus suffers from this disfunction. It could, arguably, be a description of the person based on his medical condition, and entirely accurate by circumstantial evidence.
(only a little friendly (I hope) snark. :) )
June 4th, 2009 at 1:45 pmCageyCretin @ 145,
June 4th, 2009 at 1:49 pmMy thoughts exactly!
That’s what I was trying to do, annoy Jit.
Or at least divert it’s racist and homophobic rants by addressing me (and my demasculine accusations).
“LimpGonad” doesn’t have quite the same effect. LOL.
If you’ll excuse me, I have to go purge my mind of you-know-who and his you-know-what. *shudder*
June 4th, 2009 at 1:52 pmDRxJapanese Beetle Says:
CageyCretin @ 145,
My thoughts exactly!
That’s what I was trying to do, annoy Jit.
I think most uses of such words are meant that way, and not meant to belittle women or what have you. But I can see their point that it can come off as the insulter believes the insult, or that readers perceive it that way. (If that makes sense?….).
On the other hand, as you well know, it IS a cheap shot easy way to get under their skin. Perhaps it would not be harmful to try to be a littel more clever or unique….?….
/heavy snark on/ Jeesh! Some women can be really touchy about the smallest things. Why don’t they just take it like a man and stop being so womanish about it all? // (snicker, duck, snicker, run, run, run….. snicker….)
June 4th, 2009 at 2:14 pmConservativeForProgress Says
June 4th, 2009 at 1:24 pm
There is far much use of juvenile anatomical insults, homophobic insults and gender-based insults from so-called “Progressives” on this site (e.g. RHF and RantingTommy) than I’ve seen from those you refer to as “trolls.”
__________________________________________________________
I agree with you that the playground language comes from posters on both the right and the left. Which is why I mentioned I was talking to everybody. Often whenever I see a thread with a post count up in the hundreds, the culprits are at least TWO parties doing nothing but calling each other names (both having long run out of legitimate debate points) — not just a single troll. And, like children, both are quick to say, “HE started it!”
Not to worry, though. I only put on my schoolmarm hat and give the “manners” lecture every couple of months or so. I used to say it more often, but it really doesn’t do any good.
June 4th, 2009 at 3:02 pmAwesome, check this out:
http://correspondents.theatlantic.com/conor_clarke/2009/06/what_socialism_looks_like.php
The next time some wingnut is howling at you about Obama buying up all the industries, direct them to that graphic.
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