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wiley Says:

This person has clearly turned their back on the evil that is being perpetuated by the U.S. against the Muslim world, to look at the persecution of Jews by Germany in the 20th century and is inviting us to look at that instead.

Wrong.

Learning the lessons of the Holocaust and COMPARING them to similar offenses in modern times does not make us “look at that instead”.

How ignorant does one have to be to not see this?

How many years do we have to have drilled into our heads, “learn from the holocaust so that it does not repeat itself”, before people like you actually do learn from it?

In all my life I can honestly say I never thought I’d hear a liberal or “progressive” denouncing the remembrance of the Holocaust or the comparison of it to modern events.

But what’s worse, you did it on a day when all of the world remembers it, and the events that led to the liberation of the Jews from the death camps, i.e. the allied landings in Normandy.

In fact, you did it on a day, that for the FIRST TIME IN HISTORY, a US President VISITED BUCHENWALD and SPOKE THERE along side of the Chancellor of Germany, and HOLOCAUST SURVIVORS, ALL WHO IMPLORED US TO NEVER EVER EVER FORGET, and to NEVER CEASE THE DIALOGUE ON IT.

Lest it happen again.

Yet here you are, on this of all days, demanding we DO FORGET IT, or as you put it “LEAVE IT IN THE PAST”.

It’s ignorance and apathy like that, that ensures it will happen again.

And keep on happening until fools like you are no more.

I don’t think they’re polarized, but I do think that bringing up the Holocaust when the topic is the persecution of Muslims is specious, and the knee-jerk reaction of bringing up the Holocaust every time evil is the issue is getting to be perverse. Godwin’s law.

Bringing up the Holocaust when the topic is persecution is fine, regardless of who’s being persecuted. In fact, I think it would be instructive to many to compare the persecution of Muslims today with the persecution of Jews in the past.

I agree that it often gets over-used, and perhaps that may water down the impact somewhat. But when we’re talking about really horrific things actually going on today, it may actually be a relevant comparison, Godwin or not.

I’d say that if one is going to do it, they need to make it quite clear what the real comparison is as events stand, and not engage in any slippery-sloping. I’m not going to go page-up and make a call on whether WAYNEBRO did that appropriately in this discussion, I’m just tossing it out there as a benchmark for future ones.

Not to mention the difficulty of criticising Israel without being accused of anti-semitism. Sometimes I just want to say, “FINE. I’m an anti-semite”. But I’m not.

What we see in this picture is our evil in the 21st century—right now, in fact—not Germany’s, not a mystical recurring nightmare. I think we should look at it squarely in real-time and ponder our fear and mischaracterization of Islam.

Instead you just “piled on” to the personality bandwagon whining about my attitude…

Yeah, your attitude really sucks. Did I mention that? It could stand a few more mentions, then.

.

wiley Says:

The only Jews remotely in this picture are neo-cons.

I can’t get behind the notion that bringing up the Holocaust is a subtle anti-Muslim tactic. The only people who think that Judaism and Islam are necessarily polarized against each other are all asshats. The significant thing is not who was persecuted where, but how bad the persecution was and under what surrounding circumstances.

When a person looks at a picture of Muslims being persecuted in the WOT, which is a jihad against the Muslim world for the benefit of big OIL and the military industrial complex, and brings up the Holocaust I have to suspect that they are anti-Islam. This person has clearly turned their back on the evil that is being perpetuated by the U.S. against the Muslim world, to look at the persecution of Jews by Germany in the 20th century and is inviting us to look at that instead.

The only Jews remotely in this picture are neo-cons. They are the persecutors. I don’t blame world Jewry for that. I blame the neo-cons for what they’ve wrought.

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“It is up to us to bear witness; to ensure that the world continues to note what happened here;

President Barack Obama
Yesterday, From Buchenwald

Wiley on the other hand thinks we should just “fegetabbouddit”.

As does RHF and apparently Zooey, who stated to wiley’s comments to forget about it, and I quote “excellent points”.

:|

And as for what you think, it’s hard to tell because you’re too busy positioning yourself as Doctor Phil.

el bruce Says:

If you’re going to immediately go for the jugular veins of anybody who makes a statement indicating they don’t take the Holocaust seriously enough, rather than educating them and bringing them around as to why it’s still relevant, then you’re actively helping the Holocaust-denier community.

Another one of your lies in an attempt to discredit me personally, rather than taking two minutes to actually READ what was written.

I didn’t “immediately go” for anything.

Wiley made horrific antisemitic comments to me just 3 days ago, demanding I stop talking about the Holocaust.

Then last night, when I made ONE SINGLE SOLITARY comment about Buchenwald, WILEY pounced. Not me. He didn’t make a comment that indicated he didn’t take it seriously enough.

He essentially insisted that I STOP talking about it. Again!

And I didn’t “go for his jugular”, but instead, made three slightly sarcastic comments demonstrating how accurate my observations were with regards to the photos.

And then HE went for the jugular, with this.

wiley Says:

Jesus Christ, Wayne! Hitler isn’t even Hitler anymore. Give it a rest. It is what it is right now, and it’s wrong enough without being compared to Hitler. Nothing has to be compared to Hitler in order to be atrocious. In every single war there are prison camps. In this one there was illegal and abominable abuse and torture. Let it be what it is. We don’t have to think HITLER to think EVIL.

June 6th, 2009 at 1:44 am Add Karma Recommend (1) | Report Abuse

And instead of standing up to this sort of nonsense, DEMANDING that I “give it a rest” and not talk about the Holocaust (or about Hitler as this mental midget falsely stated repeatedly) he got a little “recommend” from one of the other antisemitic holocaust downplayers here, most likely Zooey, who then commented that he had made “excellent points”.

In fact NO ONE spoke out against this sort of ignorance.

Not even you. Instead you just “piled on” to the personality bandwagon whining about my attitude in response to an antisemitic rant from a moron who knows nothing about WWII, and who showered me with antisemitic holocaust downplaying rhetoric just 3 days earlier.

When you can stop worrying about my “personality” which is what it is and hasn’t changed in the 4+ years I’ve been blogging here, and start looking at some of the hateful holocaust downplaying filth speech being sold by the “regulars” here like wiley and RHF, then you’ll be doing something. In the meantime, you’re just another blog-socialite, placating to ignorant hate speech and lies, so you can be admired by your “friends”.

As for you, you’re just part of the pile on, worrying about how I respond to the antisemitic rants of wiley, who attacked ME.

Not the other way around, as your comments imply.

ElBruce Says:

As I pointed out in my first post, while it may seem like a good idea to put the Holocaust in the past and judge Gitmo on its own merits, ultimately making those comparisons can be instructive. On the other hand, there’s a tendency to call anything a Nazi in online political discussions, so it can lose some degree of power if not handled delicately.

Handling it delicately is the opposite of what you’ve done here.

Yea, and as I pointed out in my response, there will always be ignorant people who would like to “put the Holocaust in the past” and not use it as a lesson from history when examining our own actions and events as they unfold.

Which is why President Obama, Angela Merkel and Elie Weisel, a Holocaust survivor challenged us yesterday to not give in to such weak minded people for whom the lessons of the Holocaust are best “left in the past”.

So once more, pardon if I don’t genuflex at your ignorant arrogance in presuming to suggest that on this the anniversary of D-Day, and following the historic speech of our President from Buchenwald yesterday, the FIRST EVER of its kind from that location, in which he admonished us to NOT forget but to learn from those lessons of Buchenwald and the Holocaust, that its’ “better to leave the Holocaust in the past”.

Oh now I’m responsible for THEIR antisemitism?

Downtown in my city, there’s this guy with a bullhorn who holds a bible and screams about how everybody’s going to hell. I imagine he thinks he’s evangelizing, turning more people to Christianity so that they can go to heaven. However, most of the teenagers who hang out there hate Christianity, in a large part due to people like him. So even if you believe in his worldview, he’s actually damning people, or basically anti-evangelizing; he’s furthering the cause of Satan.

If you’re going to immediately go for the jugular veins of anybody who makes a statement indicating they don’t take the Holocaust seriously enough, rather than educating them and bringing them around as to why it’s still relevant, then you’re actively helping the Holocaust-denier community.

As I pointed out in my first post, while it may seem like a good idea to put the Holocaust in the past and judge Gitmo on its own merits, ultimately making those comparisons can be instructive. On the other hand, there’s a tendency to call anything a Nazi in online political discussions, so it can lose some degree of power if not handled delicately.

Handling it delicately is the opposite of what you’ve done here.

wiley Says:

wiley Says:

Jesus Christ, Wayne! Hitler isn’t even Hitler anymore. Give it a rest. It is what it is right now, and it’s wrong enough without being compared to Hitler. Nothing has to be compared to Hitler in order to be atrocious. In every single war there are prison camps.

:|

Zooey Says:

Excellent point, wiley.

:|

This was in response to ONE comment I made noting the eerie similarities of the photos from Guantanamo with images we have from Buchenwald.

And on the day President Obama visited Buchenwald, and spoke from there for the FIRST TIME IN HISTORY, ever….and admonished us to all not forget and to keep the dialogue on it open.

On THIS day, this special day of remembrance, wiley exploded at one comment on the subject, and demanded we NOT talk about it.

Even though we were supposed to.

And you Zooey, cheered that on as an “excellent point”.

Downplaying the holocaust is for anti-Semites, not for decent people.

You were wrong here. You were both wrong. Very very wrong.

And regardless of how many of your cuckolded friends chose to pile on, your comments and wiley’s were obnoxious, outrageous and downright antisemitic given the day and the events being honored and remembered.

So go on, gather your crowd of buffoons to cry and scream about “bartlebee” and how mean and stupid I am.

But you know what you said was wrong, and what wiley said was way, way way wrong. And all the personal attacks you can muster won’t change that.

It ain’t about me. It’s about 6 million Jews who died in the camps by the hands of their own government, and the lessons we are supposed to be learning from those events.

Lessons “wiley” would rather just “go away”. Lessons that make wiley angry to hear someone reference. Lessons that wiley, and apparently you, have yet to learn.

:|

Thus my ONE SINGLE LONE COMMENT, was perfectly in context with this thread, and with the events of the day. Not to mention it was on the eve of the Anniversary of D-DAY.

Yet “wiley” chose to attack me and that comment, mocking me, dismissing my comment and then when I dared to respond pointing out the hubris in belittling my ONE SINGLE COMMENT, he went off, demanding I not talk about the Holocaust and lying claiming I was speaking about Hitler.

And while we were debating that, you come in, and cheer his comments on. Comments that BELITTLED the Holocaust and insulted me.

Then your friends come in, like the antisemitic “RHF” who in all caps screams denunciations of the Holocaust and the Jews, and yet I’m the one with poor social skills?

Who gives a sh$t who I am? You guys have made a stink everytime you argue with me over a handle I used to use, as if it were some secret you were exposing to further make it personal about me.

Well, my comments weren’t about me. They were timely, accurate comments made about the topic of the thread, and wiley chose to attack them and me personally, belittle the holocaust and then you chose to “pile on” and cheer on his antisemitic rhetoric.

If that makes me the imbecile, then fine. I’d rather be an imbecile than a person who belittles the holocaust and launches personal attacks demanding we “forget” the events on the very day we’re all supposed to be remembering them, or the person cheering such nonsense on.

Zooey Says:

How did I know!? :-D

Waynebro (this one is for you), I’ve always thought you were a brilliant person, but calling me and wiley Holocaust deniers and anti-Semites means you are stunningly clueless imbecile with absolutely no social skills.

Have a nice life.

Well since I didn’t call you Holocaust “DENIERS” but instead called WILEY a “holocaust downplayer” and pointed out that you cheered him on in that, then that would make you the “stunningly clueless imbecile”.

Being as you’re lying about what I said.

Wiley has made repeated statements downplaying the role of the Holocaust and worse, on a day that President Obama visited Buchenwald.

You cheered him on in that last night, and that to me speaks more poorly of your “social skills” than mine.

I know you probably didn’t bother to read what he wrote. Hell you didn’t even seem to know who he was talking to even though it was just him and me talking. You probably saw the comment, saw me arguing with someone, and did like you always do in those instances and just arbitrarily cheered him on.

Because in your mind it seems that if I’m arguing with someone, then I must be “misbehaving”.

This isn’t the first time you’ve done this.

You have an axe to grind with me, and you jump at the opportunities to take a debate I’m having with someone else, and turn it into your personal attacks on me.

So I’m used to it.

But at least get your facts straight.