Oh no Newt; don’t tell me you are turning into a J.W.?

Free People

I feel sorry for anyone dumb enough to fall for the crap.

Fundamentalists have become increasingly influential in both religion and government, and have managed to change the nuances and subtleties of historic debate into black-and-white rigidities and the personal derogation of those who dare to disagree.

I define fundamentalism as a group of invariably male leaders who consider themselves superior to other believers. The fundamentalists believe they have a special relationship with God. Therefore their beliefs are inherently correct, being those of God, and anyone who disagrees with them are first of all wrong, and second inferior, and in extreme cases even subhuman. Also, fundamentalists don’t relish any challenge to their positions … It makes a great exhibition of rigidity and superiority and exclusion.

There is an element of fundamentalism involved, which involves the belief on the part of a human being that his own concept of God is the proper one. And since he the proper concept of God, he particularly blessed and singled out for special consideration above and beyond those who disagree with him.

Secondly, anyone who does disagree with him, since he harnessed to God in a unique way, then, by definition, must be wrong. And the second step is if you are in disagreement with his concept of the way to worship, even among the Christian community, is that you are inferior to him. And then the ultimate progression of that is that you’re not only different and wrong and inferior but in some ways you are subhuman. So there’s a loss of concern even for the death of those who disagree. And this takes fundamentalism to the extreme. This is an element of the fundamentalist cause in this country. If you are a wealthy white man, then you are naturally inclined to think that the poor are inferior and don’t deserve your first consideration. If you are a wealthy white man, then you also take on the proposition that women are inherently inferior. This builds up a sense of prejudice and alienation that permeates the Christian right during these days.

And, of course, fundamentalists don’t believe they can make mistakes, so when we permit the torture of prisoners in Guantanamo or Abu Ghraib, it’s just impossible for a fundamentalist to admit that a mistake was made.

Which means you didn’t even bother to finish the sentence.

Instead you purposely left out the remainder of the sentence which would instantly refute your spin on my words had you chose to include it.

So don’t even bother.

ElBruce Says:

WAYNEBRO Says:

Picture a day when years and years of mocking religious beliefs in the public light has hardened most of our children…

No, I said totalitarian agnosticism, not totalitarian atheism. We already have strong agnosticism enshrined in law.

Well if you cherry pick it and leave the rest of the sentence out then I guess you can twist it to mean atheism, and imply I’m so stupid I don’t know the f#$king difference.

If you want to be dishonest that is.

Hell at that point you might as well go back to posting other peoples statements and appending my name to them.

Both are equally wrong and not honest.

Or you can complete that statement, where it clearly states atheism is included in that factor.

Here Bruce. Here’s the ACTUAL statement, since you clearly have a difficult time quoting me honestly.

“Picture a day when years and years of mocking religious beliefs in the public light has hardened most of our children to the point of intolerance for any sort of belief system, and in the same light, atheism has been drawn under the same microscope, condemning it’s belief that religious belief is wrong.

There. There’s the ACTUAL statement.

Which dismisses your straw argument response that you invented by misquoting me.

Picture a day when years and years of mocking religious beliefs in the public light has hardened most of our children…

No, I said totalitarian agnosticism, not totalitarian atheism. We already have strong agnosticism enshrined in law.

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Xisithrus Says:

This is why Newt is unelectable, I wonder if he thought about how this looks if he is planning a run for president?

The punchline is, he thinks it’s a great idea. Everybody’s positioning themselves to be the Huckabee of the 2012 primaries. Never mind that Huckabee lost the 2008 primaries, and never mind that a thrice-married known corrupt ex-pol can’t win the nomination…

ElBruce Says:

WAYNEBRO Says:

How about you stop taking OTHER PEOPLES POSTS, and PUTTING MY NAME ON THEM.

Whoops, sorry. My bad.

No problem. I just didn’t want to spend another 300 comments explaining to the moron brigade that I didn’t make the comments, and that it was a mistake.

Thanks for correcting that.

ElBruce Says:

For some reason, the thought of totalitarian agnosticism makes me giggle.

Well it shouldn’t. It’s not like we’re somehow insulated from the same emotions and capabilities that everyone else is. We’re all human, and we all share the same emotions, capabilities and nature, to a greater or lesser degree, and based on circumstance.

Picture a day when years and years of mocking religious beliefs in the public light has hardened most of our children to the point of intolerance for any sort of belief system, and in the same light, atheism has been drawn under the same microscope, condemning it’s belief that religious belief is wrong. Those children grow, turn into politicians and national leaders, Senators and Presidents and Supreme Court justices, and ultimately we find ourselves as a nation, intolerant over any sort of belief.

The state issues the proclamation that all belief systems are inherently divisive and therefore are to be shunned. This over time grows into real and enforceable laws, first at the state level, then onto a national level, until ultimately, the freedom to openly express belief or the practice thereof, in anything other than proven science, becomes outlawed, in the interest of national security.

Sounds bizarre I know, but the US is a new country, and our Constitution unfortunately is not binding in the minds of many of our leaders, not to mention many of our citizens.

Over time, given the right circumstances, such a nightmare could evolve, take root and become the law of the land. It’s all about tolerance and intolerance, and it’s all about the mingling of belief systems such as religion, atheism, or any other form of “anti-belief system”, such as some forms of agnosticism. The US is a majority rule republic ultimately, and our democracy teeters on the common sense and good judgment of the people, and the electorate we stand up to elect our leaders. Over time, we can see changes we never thought possible, on a national level.

For example, in my half century on the planet, I grew up thinking I’d never see the day when the US Government spied on all of its citizens openly and wantonly. We read about such nightmares from Orwell and Bradbury. We thought because we read such things, and even saw movies about them, that we were somehow aloof to such nonsense and anti-American activities, and thus insulated from it ever occurring in our country.

But alas, we see how that worked out, as we watched George W Bush, and now even President Obama, dismantle our 4th Amendment protections right before our very eyes.

And now we have no free democracy left. Every word spoken over a communications device. Every email, blog, web page entry, tweety twit, instant message, even our postal mail, is now subject to “inspection by the state”. Our homes are peered into by keyhole satellites, and thermal imaging.
Our monetary transactions and medical records, all subject to “monitoring” at both the state and federal level.

We have no more right to privacy, and hence no privacy, and hence no 4th Amendment. It’s dead. Dead and buried, and we get up every morning kidding ourselves, that there’s still a semblance of freedom left in America. But it’s just the death rattle of the 4th Amendment quaking in the minds of those of us who still remember it. Soon, in a generation or two, it will be a distant memory as our children grow up knowing and accepting that their parents sheepishly handed over their 4th Amendment freedoms for an ounce of “safety” offered by greased palm charlatans who neither wish to or can provide it.

And that happened in our lifetimes.

So don’t kid yourself. Given time, and given the mood of the fickle mob that makes up the voting block of this nation, anything is possible. Which is why we should be on guard for it and avoid any mingling whatsoever of religion, atheism, and any form of thought pattern that involves belief, or the lack thereof.

The only role government should ever play in the beliefs or lack thereof of its people, is in ensuring the freedom to do so as ones own conscience dictates.

And as for nobody believing in anything, we’re back to oppression. How would you institute such a thing? The only way to do that is to outlaw beliefs, and not only would that constitute oppression on a massive scale, it wouldn’t work.

For some reason, the thought of totalitarian agnosticism makes me giggle.
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WAYNEBRO Says:

How about you stop taking OTHER PEOPLES POSTS, and PUTTING MY NAME ON THEM.

Whoops, sorry. My bad.

Not me.

Please post a correction so I don’t have to deal with the idiot squad.

:|

Now I’ll have to spend 6 hours and 300 comments explaining to inbred morons like RHF and Fred that I never said that, and that you just put my name on it.

ElBruce Says:

WAYNEBRO Says:

If God is brought back there, students will be told to ask the Creator for things like tolerance toward homosexuals.

Stop defending intolerance or claiming that it comes from God. You are committing blasphemy.

I got a better idea.

How about you stop taking OTHER PEOPLES POSTS, and PUTTING MY NAME ON THEM.

:|

How about that?

ElBruce Says:

The only way to avoid a belief system being used to justify oppression and murder is for nobody to believe in anything

No, there’s another way.

At least with regards to the oppression part.

Keep religion and atheism out of government.

And as for nobody believing in anything, we’re back to oppression. How would you institute such a thing? The only way to do that is to outlaw beliefs, and not only would that constitute oppression on a massive scale, it wouldn’t work.

We can tell people what to believe but we can’t make them.

Nor should we want to.

The only solution therefore is what I said days ago, i.e. keep belief systems, whether atheist or theist, out of government. Beyond facilitating the free practice thereof and ensuring compliance with the laws of the land, government should have no role in the peoples belief systems.

That’s how we avoid that sort of oppression.

Fail to do that, and you end up with things like the crusades, or the murder of the religious under Hoxha, and Stalin.

Just keep it out of government, and you’ve got the foundation for a government that can work.