O’Reilly defends torture: ‘Look, if it were illegal, Bush and Cheney would have been arrested.’
O’Reilly defends torture: ‘Look, if it were illegal, Bush and Cheney would have been arrested.’
Fox News’s Bill O’Reilly has always been one of the most outspoken defenders of torture, declaring there’s “certainly no proof” that “mistreatment” ever happened at Guantanamo, and insisting it’s “just bull” to say it’s ineffective to “dunk [someone] into water.” Trying to link abortion (which is legal) and torture (which is not) in an argument with Juan Williams last night, O’Reilly insisted that torture must not be illegal since Bush or Cheney were never arrested:
WILLIAMS: Well, let me just say on the second point about Guantanamo Bay, Bill, that when you think about torture, torture is illegal. It’s illegal on the Geneva Convention. It’s illegal under U.S. law. So torture is illegal. [...]
O’REILLY: Juan, you’re hiding behind semantics and meaning, Juan, rather than getting to the crux of the matter. Look, if it were illegal, Bush and Cheney would have been arrested. You’re sitting authorities, the attorney general ruled waterboarding was not torture. It was legal. Rare occasion it was used.
Watch it:
Of course, the Justice Department O’Reilly trumpets was hardly an independent legal authority. Indeed, as then-deputy attorney general James Comey wrote in a 2005 e-mail expressing his concerns about torture, “everyone seemed to be thinking as if they still work at the White House and not the United States Department of Justice.”
Transcript:
BILL O’REILLY: So Juan, can you explain liberal support for late term abortions, the condemnation of things like Guantanamo Bay? Does it make any sense to you?
JUAN WILLIAMS: Well, Bill, let me just say I thought that was a really important talking points memo. And I want to be very specific in the way I respond to you. And let me just say specifically it’s largely a matter of the law. If you think about Dr. Tiller and about late term abortion specifically, it’s legal in this country. And that includes the mental health provision that you said, you know.
O’REILLY: No, it’s not legal, it’s illegal.
WILLIAMS: It’s viewed to be casual.
O’REILLY: It’s illegal in 36 states, Juan. It’s not the law.
WILLIAMS: Not in Kansas. It’s not in Kansas where Tiller was practicing medicine. And obviously, you know –
O’REILLY: All right, but look, look, Juan.
WILLIAMS: — he was abiding by the law of the state.
O’REILLY: — you can dance the law dance all day long.
WILLIAMS: Okay.
O’REILLY: And laws are passed by.
WILLIAMS: The second thing to say.
O’REILLY: Laws are passed by men, okay. Okay, laws can be.
WILLIAMS: Yes.
O’REILLY: — vote, they can be passed. But I’m talking about American citizens screaming about Guantanamo Bay, branding their country as a torture nation. Yet when Dr. Tiller’s evidence is presented right to them, they look away and they don’t care. Juan, that’s the liberal state right now, not all, but that’s what the liberal media’s throwing out there. And I just don’t understand it, man.
WILLIAMS: Well, let me just say on the second point about Guantanamo Bay, Bill, that when you think about torture, torture is illegal. It’s illegal on the Geneva Convention. It’s illegal under U.S. law. So torture is illegal. So you can’t say you know what, we think it’s a good thing.
O’REILLY: Juan, you’re hiding behind.
WILLIAMS: — you think you’re right when you say there’s an overstatement.
O’REILLY: — semantics and meaning, Juan, rather than getting to the crux of the matter. Look, if it were illegal, Bush and Cheney would have been arrested. You’re sitting authorities, the attorney general ruled waterboarding was not torture. It was legal. Rare occasion it was used.
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Give it time.
June 9th, 2009 at 9:48 amSometimes the truth — and its consequences — take years to surface and to be appropriately dealt with; one needs only to look at the Catholic church’s priests and pedophilia to understand that reality.
Not every prisoner is arrested, nor is every crime punished. Some are glossed over, Mr. O’Reilly, with money. Ring a bell?
June 9th, 2009 at 9:53 amYes, even O’Reilly is calling for the arrest of Bush and Dick Cheney. Bill’O may not have realized what he just said. Torture is illegal.
June 9th, 2009 at 9:54 amThat’s perilously close to “it’s not illegal because the President did it” which is perilously close to fascism.
Bill O’Reilly, apologist for fascism
June 9th, 2009 at 9:55 amThe stoopid is just pouring out of O’Falafel’s mouth these days, ain’t it? Good thing it’s only the fascists and tinfoil hat brigade that are listening anymore…
June 9th, 2009 at 9:55 amO’Reilly is wrong about the sitting AG. Cantor stated that waterboarding is torture. Oops… looks like Fox fed the public another lie, again.
June 9th, 2009 at 9:57 amThe AG or any other lawyer doesn’t get to decide what is actually legal or not. They can only offer an opinion.
Torture was illegal and is illegal.
BillO ls an idiot (of course) .
June 9th, 2009 at 9:57 amEven O’Reilley is giving reasons why we **MUST** investigate probably war crimes in Gitmo
Not that I think he meant to do that, but he does provide an awful good case study of why we should.
June 9th, 2009 at 9:57 amBill-O should know that badgering a lawyer into telling you something is legal does not relieve you of liability if the lawyer turns out to be wrong. If that were the case Bill-O wouldn’t have written that big check to Andrea Makris.
June 9th, 2009 at 9:58 amPatty:
Not every prisoner is arrested,
Errrrg. Even using “preview,” I messed up:
“Not every criminal is arrested, . . .”
June 9th, 2009 at 9:58 amBillo makes me wanna puke. What an a$$hole.
June 9th, 2009 at 10:00 amSure, whatever O’Rally!
And if sexual harassment was LEGAL, then you wouldn’t have to settle out of court, now would ya, Falafel boy???
June 9th, 2009 at 10:00 amSo why are our elected official doing nothing.?…Grrrrr…P. B & J
June 9th, 2009 at 10:02 amOnly an ignorant coward would listen to OReilly
June 9th, 2009 at 10:02 amThe world is in agreement that the US tortured prisoners.
Bush&Co admitted they used “enhanced techniques” — if anyone is parsing in the use of semantics, it would be Bush&Co.
We can only hope that the delay in charging Bush&Co with war crimes is due to the wheels of justice moving ever so slowly, but moving in that direction nonetheless.
June 9th, 2009 at 10:02 amThere is no statue of limitations.
There can be no other reason why Cheney and his family are desperately re-writing history in their appearances. And why dumbya is keeping a low profile (lest he say something even more incriminating, as he is inclined).
Defending torture
June 9th, 2009 at 10:09 amHigh mark in America
Let’s have a parade
Let’s hope the wheels of justice are slowly grinding in their direction.
June 9th, 2009 at 10:13 amThis is why Laura Bush voted for Obama.
June 9th, 2009 at 10:14 amLet’s see… using O’reilly’s “logic”, since OJ Simpson was acquitted in criminal court of the murders of Nicole and Ron Goldman, and no one else has been arrested…
that must mean that no crime occurred.
Right, Bill?
June 9th, 2009 at 10:15 amSo then why isn’t Billy Boy calling for the torture of Scott Roeder? Isn’t this the ticking bomb scenario they’ve been warning us about?????
June 9th, 2009 at 10:18 amSpeaking of O’Reilly, did anyone see J. Stewart SAVAGE Fox last night? He nailed MSNBC abd CNN too, but he was brutal on Fox, and brilliant…
June 9th, 2009 at 10:19 amImpeached is the right word for the trial of a President and Vice President for high crimes and misdemeanors. And, yes, O’Reilly there was a group of people building a case for impeachment during the Bush years, but the Congress didn’t have the balls to go through with it.
June 9th, 2009 at 10:19 am“Look, if it were illegal, Bush and Cheney would have been arrested.”
Jeez, of all the incredibly stupid things BillO has said over the years, I think this one takes the cake. He’d better avoid any appearances on “Are You Smarter Than a 5th Grader?”, ’cause even a 5th grader wouldn’t come out with this tripe.
I’ll bet that BillO uses the same excuse for lying: ‘If lying is a sin, why hasn’t god smote me?’
June 9th, 2009 at 10:20 amLook, if it were illegal, Bush and Cheney would have been arrested.
O’Reilly has succintly laid out the very reason why President Obama, AG Holder and Congress must investigate possible war crimes involving these people.
PEACE
June 9th, 2009 at 10:21 amO’Reilly defends torture: ‘Look, if it were illegal, Bush and Cheney would have been arrested.’
Arrested by whom?
June 9th, 2009 at 10:23 amLoss of oxygen
June 9th, 2009 at 10:24 amPlugged carotid artery
Little sparkly lights
CheeseFlap, I just want to thank you for your poetic contributions, I always enjoy them!
June 9th, 2009 at 10:26 amJane, I’m with you. CheeseFlap’s haiku are great, sometimes hilarious, sometimes profound, and I miss them when he/she’s absent.
PEACE
June 9th, 2009 at 10:29 amWell, that’s the beauty of the system.
Around 50% of drugdealers money go through US banks. How many bank owners are in prison for this?
The beauty of it…
June 9th, 2009 at 10:31 amGood morning, ‘mom’! Are you having the same crappy weather as we are?
June 9th, 2009 at 10:32 amCheeseflap’s posts
June 9th, 2009 at 10:33 amMinimal but succinct
Like tiny darts
Jane, yup, rainy, cold and we woke up to no power. But since I haven’t even put the air conditioners in the windows yet, I’m not complaining about needing a sweatshirt in mid-June!
You and Wayne have a fine day and remember the garden is getting free water!
PEACE
June 9th, 2009 at 10:34 amobamawipe$ Says:
June 9th, 2009 at 10:37 amBut you think it’s ok to go on tv and tell the potus to “go to hell?”
—
Welcome — what do you think of O’Reilly’s claim that lack of an arrest equals lack of criminal behavior?
Patty Says:
obamawipe$ Says:
But you think it’s ok to go on tv and tell the potus to “go to hell?”
—
Welcome — what do you think of O’Reilly’s claim that lack of an arrest equals lack of criminal behavior?
Patty, o$ is not the answer man he’s the question man!
June 9th, 2009 at 10:43 amsince waterboarding IS illegal, Bush and Cheney and Rumsfeld should be arrested
June 9th, 2009 at 10:44 ama$$wipe$ said through a spokesman:
“We are not prepared to make a statement at this time. BUT LOOK OVER THERE!”
June 9th, 2009 at 10:48 amlivelongandprosper Says:
June 9th, 2009 at 10:49 amPatty, o$ is not the answer man he’s the question man!
—
Intellectual curiosity got the better of me, livelongandprosper, but you’re right. I shouldn’t expect an answer — logical or il-.
obamawipe$ Says:
Do you ever tire of being dead wrong?
Clearly, irony knows no limits.
June 9th, 2009 at 10:53 amimagine if the troll had a clue
o hell, it’d be easier to imagine Cheney having a heart or Bush having a spine
nevermind
June 9th, 2009 at 10:53 amobamawipe$ Says:
June 9th, 2009 at 10:54 am3 loons…all wrong and hypocrites! Shocker!
—
go on, please.
…….NEWS FLASH……..BILL O’REILLY IS WRONG…..
In other news, water is wet and Fox is neither fair nor balanced.
June 9th, 2009 at 10:55 amobviously it is time to freeze out another troll
shall we activate FreezeATroll?
June 9th, 2009 at 10:57 amThat kind of right wing bull makes the case for investigation and prosecutions for violation of laws and treaty obligations regarding torture. As time goes on, these egregious violations continue to be revealed again and again. When will this nightmare end?
June 9th, 2009 at 10:57 amobamawipe$ Says:
Patty Says
stfu
—
You can say, “Patty Says, . . .,” but — like Fox news, that doesn’t make it true. I never use the “F” word, even in abbreviated form.
Let’s deal with my point, if you please: How can you support your claim that no arrest equals no crime when viewed in the contexts of truth, reality and history?
June 9th, 2009 at 10:58 amhellinabucket Says:
…….NEWS FLASH……..BILL O’REILLY IS WRONG…..
In other news, water is wet and Fox is neither fair nor balanced.
June 9th, 2009 at 10:55 am
Also in other news, a$$wipe$ is still an a$$wipe.
June 9th, 2009 at 11:00 amThere were no arrests in the Zodiac murders.
June 9th, 2009 at 11:00 amHey, I robbed a bank a few years ago and was never arrested, so I guess robbing a bank is legal.
O’Reilly is an extreme putz.
June 9th, 2009 at 11:00 amReality tells me it would be more disturbing if Obama didn’t wipe.
June 9th, 2009 at 11:01 amobamawipe$ Says:
But you think it’s ok to go on tv and tell the potus to “go to hell?”
—
I answered your ‘question’ now answer mine, ok?
As a rule, I don’t condone anyone wishing this afterlife on anyone else. If I missed this quote in the posting/thread, please let me know. My responses on this post have to do with Mr. O’Reilly’s thesis that lack of arrest equals lack of criminal activity.
June 9th, 2009 at 11:01 amobamawipe$ Says:
what do you think of O’Reilly’s claim that lack of an arrest equals lack of criminal behavior?
He’s right.
A troll tried saying the same thing here the other day; I never imagined that anybody at the TV level would try something so stupid and easily refuted.
Hey Mr. bank robber, I guess I can’t arrest you because if you had robbed the bank somebody would have already arrested you!
Why that’s right, mr. police man. Since I got away from the scene of the crime, it’s olly-olly-oxen-free and I’m free to go about my way. Since you didn’t arrest me before attempting to arrest me you can never arrest me.
Let’s just disband all the police and district attorneys since everybody who isn’t already in jail must be innocent of anything! Free for all, woo! We can all do anything we want because since we haven’t been pre-arrested that means nothing we do could be illegal! Total amnesty for everyone for every thing all the time!
June 9th, 2009 at 11:05 amBilldo, torture IS ILLEGAL
It may take a bit of time but when one of the Chimp’s crime family members gets nabbed in an European country, tried and convicted, we well see if you try to boycott such country.
First you RW morons were claiming waterboarding WAS NOT torture.
Now you are admitting IT IS TORTURE, but it is legal.
If it is TORTURE, IT IS ILLEGAL, you morons.
June 9th, 2009 at 11:07 amPatty-
It can’t support it’s claim because it’s not here to have a discussion, it’s here to deflect.
Give it five minutes, and it’ll post some stupid story from Drudge Report about how Obama farted when he was 4 and that makes him a dirty commie and what do we all think of that.
Then it’ll lob some insults, pretend to have won a debate it didn’t participate in, log off and log back in as another troll and start the whole thing over again.
It’s a complete and utter moron, and it enjoys this.
June 9th, 2009 at 11:08 amanallyfixated$, your question is an ehtical question. Not a legal matter.
It’s in poor taste but not illegal.
Even you have to admit there is enough evidence to support an investigation into the matter of torture and the Bush administration.
Unless you don’t believe this is a nation of laws.
June 9th, 2009 at 11:08 amWhat’s that annoying buzzing?
June 9th, 2009 at 11:08 amThe troll is best left ignored completely. Trying to engage it in an actual conversation is a waste of time and energy and merely encourages it to spout more mindless drivel. It’s here for attention and nothing more.
June 9th, 2009 at 11:09 amFreeze out the troll, it has proven itself incapable of honest or intelligent discussion
Freeze and Flag, it’s the right thing to do
June 9th, 2009 at 11:09 amBeware of any statement that begins with “look“.
June 9th, 2009 at 11:10 amIt is usually followed by a big, fat lie.
I hope someday the rule of law will be restored to America, a day when both Bush and Cheney are behind bars for their crimes against humanity.
Until that time, we are a nation that stands on the brink of anarchy.
June 9th, 2009 at 11:12 amO’Reilly is incredibly stupid. Obviously, Bush & Cheney weren’t going to be arrested during their own administration, when everyone who answered to them leaped to justify whatever they wanted to have justified. Now that the U.S. has a new administration, however, Democrats seem reluctant to go through the same or worse aggravation the nation went through when Clinton was impeached. What a difference in significance! Lying about Monica had NOTHING to do with what we are as a nation of laws and EVERYTHING to do with a political vendetta. I mean, who died because of that blue dress? Who suffered? Well, except for Monica and the Clintons, no one, really, though people were disgusted. But torture is a completely different matter, as Bush-Cheney’s using it violated national laws and international treaties. O’Reilly, stupid as he is, does have a point. Bush & Cheney do need to face charges, and the sooner, the better. Obama may not have the stomach for this, but as a nation, we need to right our wrongs.
June 9th, 2009 at 11:12 amsmidget, I like your use of “it”. Reminds me of “IT RUBS THE LOTION ON IT’S BODY”
June 9th, 2009 at 11:13 amobamawipe$ Says:
Levi the Dungbeetle Says:
——————————————————————————–
What’s that annoying buzzing?
———–
It’s the sound of patsy changing names…..
Forgive me if this was not your intent, but I read your post as suggesting that I (Patty) am posting under two names. I’m going to take that as a compliment because I struggle daily as a techno-dinosaur. The notion that I could rig two names for the same site will provide a good laugh at the dinner table tonight — thanks, obamawipe$.
June 9th, 2009 at 11:15 amThat must have really confused Bill’O the Clown, Juan Williams using truth and logic instead of just agreeing with Bill’s BS.
June 9th, 2009 at 11:15 amThe troll thinks I am Patsy apparently. I guess it is welcome to its delusions.
If anyone out there happens to be a trekkie, there was an episode where some members of Captain Kirk’s crew were moving much faster in time than everyone else. If you were one of the people moving more slowly through time, you could “hear” the people around you that were moving much faster in time, sort of a buzzing noise…
June 9th, 2009 at 11:16 amIt’s “Patty,” not “Patsy.”
I have many shortcomings, to be sure. Hypocrisy is not one of them.
June 9th, 2009 at 11:19 amIs it not hypocritical for a wingnut to call anyone else a hypocrite?
June 9th, 2009 at 11:19 amPatty, just ignore it
it isn’t here to discuss, it is here to disrupt
it most likely is a middle school child home for the summer and finally bored with its Xbox
June 9th, 2009 at 11:20 amobamawipe$ Says:
You’re so-called argument has no merit. Bush or Cheney aren’t hiding. Next?
Don’t have to hide, criminals can walk around in the open now. If you haven’t been arrested for something yet then you’re innocent and that means you can never be arrested for anything you do! Since your freedom proves your innocence there’s no need to investigate any crimes either!
Remember when Republicans used to be the “tough on crime” party? Good times, good times…
June 9th, 2009 at 11:20 amoooh! oooooh! look at the magical feat: Both Patty and Levi posted at the same time!!!!
June 9th, 2009 at 11:21 amI’m getting more skillful by the minute!
Patty, I’ve got to go along with Tommy and gum on the Freeze and Flag campaign.
I’ve had my fun with wipey in the past, but he’s getting more abusive and more delusional (if that’s possible). His purpose to disrupt is no longer deniable, and it’s time to ignore him.
If we simply continue our discussion and skip over wipey’s posts as if they’re not even there, he’ll be reduced to mumbling to himself (which is quite comical) and he’ll soon wander off to explore the electric socket.
June 9th, 2009 at 11:22 amRantingTommy Says:
Patty, just ignore it
it isn’t here to discuss, it is here to disrupt
You’re right. Time to get back to what I should be doing.
Happy day, all — and I do mean “all.” Hope that doesn’t sound hypocritical.
June 9th, 2009 at 11:23 amMissed your post, Ralph, while I was busy with mine — you’re right. I rarely engage directly with name-callers, and now I know why.
I’ll return to my ignore-the-troll ways.
Thanks.
June 9th, 2009 at 11:23 amLevi, you too — can we count on your support?
June 9th, 2009 at 11:24 amReally?
You want me to prove that you’re not here to have a discussion?
LOL!!
I call your attention to every post you’ve ever made on every thread, ever. There you go, proof given. No, hurry up and get yourself back to the dank cave you came from. I’m sure your mom is wondering what you’ve been doing out of the basement all this time.
This is the only response you will get from me. You aren’t worthy of my time and you certainly aren’t worthy of carrying on any level of discourse with me.
June 9th, 2009 at 11:26 amIn the hallucinations of Jeffy Bovine,
71
77
80
Everyone is “patsy”
Now you guys know TP is not dealing with a troll.
Jeffy Bovine AKA olby sucks = habib = royalking = etc. is a
certifiable mental case and closet homosexual.
He makes weekend trips to San Francisco hoping to meet his friend Dr. Weiners for a discreet exchange of ideas.
June 9th, 2009 at 11:26 amDoncha, Bovine?
Freeze n Flag has been working very well lately
Congrats to the TP regs that resist the troll’s attempts
June 9th, 2009 at 11:28 amSo O’Reilly has clearly admitted that he agrees Bush & Cheney tortured. Honesty from O’Reilly- how rare.
June 9th, 2009 at 11:28 amI haven’t really engaged the beast, because it is pointless, so yes, I can ignore its lunatic rantings.
June 9th, 2009 at 11:29 amBill O’Rielly is wrong. Is he calling The Red Cross liars?
June 9th, 2009 at 11:30 amOn to the topic at hand:
Clearly this line of thinking, that if there is no arrest then a crime hasn’t been committed, is so incredibly flawed and, to be blunt, stupid, that it’s hard to even begin to set such mindsets straight.
Let’s start here: There are entire departments in police stations, especially in larger areas, were they investigate crimes that have been committed, but no arrests have yet been made. They have made several TV shows about such departments (don’t watch ‘em, can’t comment on ‘em, but I know they exist). Shall we discuss with these people how a crime has only been committed when someone has been arrested and see how they react?
June 9th, 2009 at 11:31 amO’REILLY: — semantics and meaning, Juan, rather than getting to the crux of the matter. Look, if it were illegal, Bush and Cheney would have been arrested.
Sure. I imagine that whichever judge decided to arrest the Leader of the United States (or Bush), would’ve been lapidated by Fox-organized “Stoner parties”.
June 9th, 2009 at 11:33 amhellinabucket
The Red Cross?
Those card-carrying, ACLU loving, Commie-sypathizing bastards, of course they’re lying.
…../snark
June 9th, 2009 at 11:34 amBildo thinks just because he hasn’t been charged yet with inciting Dr. Tillers murder that he isn’t responsible for it.
June 9th, 2009 at 11:34 amThat’s rich! So criminals not caught yet haven’t done anything illegal?
June 9th, 2009 at 11:34 amsmidget, it seems incredible that anyone even has to point this out.
But one thing I’ve noticed about the minds of many right-wingers that I’ve encountered: they’re very situational in their judgments and ethics. They’re not big on considering wider applications of the principles they use to reach their positions.
Abstract thinking is part of that, and it’s one of the attributes of an educated mind, which, as wingnuts are fond of pointing out, is generally the product of a “liberal” academic system.
No wonder they are so hostile to academia.
June 9th, 2009 at 11:39 amobamawipe$ Says:
If you think it’s ok for a far left loon to tell the potus to “shut the hell up” you’re a flaming hypocrite. Period.
June 9th, 2009 at 11:21 am
____________
It is okay for anyone to tell the President of the United States to shut the hell up. That is Constitutionally-protected free expression.
Torture is not. Nor are memos ordering and justifying the use of torture.
See the difference?
June 9th, 2009 at 11:40 am0.Evil Spaniard Says:
That’s rich! So criminals not caught yet haven’t done anything illegal
Yeah, that logic is what appeals to the GOP right now. IF they haven’t been arrested, THEN there must not have been a crime committed. How can a group of grown up individuals be THAT ignorant!?!
June 9th, 2009 at 11:41 amThat annoying buzzing is back.
Toasterhead, I hope you join the join the freeze on trollwipe$
June 9th, 2009 at 11:49 amBildo argues just like the trolls. Ignore reality an pick nits to divert attention.
June 9th, 2009 at 11:49 amHey Bill,
June 9th, 2009 at 11:49 amDon’t dare us to make arrests happen. There are many Americans, myself included, who believe key officials of the Bush Administration should be tried for war crimes. I am not a radical, I am an American.
Nixon did nothing illegal, either. The defense of Cheney and Bush amounts to a Nixon redux.
If the president does it, it isn’t illegal.
June 9th, 2009 at 11:52 amLook, Igmoe, if it were legal the Bush yes men wouldnt have had to redefine it enhanced interrogation to undermine Geneva.
June 9th, 2009 at 11:53 amLevi the Dungbeetle Says:
Toasterhead, I hope you join the join the freeze on trollwipe$
June 9th, 2009 at 11:49 am
_____________
I’m trying… It’s just that when the flies are all buzzing around dropping feces everywhere I can’t resist the urge to swat now and then.
June 9th, 2009 at 11:53 amralph the wonder locust Says:
Abstract thinking is part of that, and it’s one of the attributes of an educated mind, which, as wingnuts are fond of pointing out, is generally the product of a “liberal” academic system.
No wonder they are so hostile to academia
It is known fact that the more ignorant the population is kept, the easier it is to control. It is incredible and frightening to see that the GOP has so heartily embraced this philosophy through such demagogues as Bill O’Reilly.
June 9th, 2009 at 11:53 am‘Look, if it were illegal, Bush and Cheney would have been arrested.’
Wow… talk about your all time worst face-palm. I did it so hard that it hurts.
June 9th, 2009 at 11:54 amGee, why would he fear that,,,,cause it was not legal?
June 9th, 2009 at 11:56 amThe thing, CTH, some species of flies actually increase their activity when they are swatted.
You ignore ‘em, they leave to find something more entertaining.
June 9th, 2009 at 11:56 amIgnorance of the law is no excuse. Lack of enforcing the law is no excuse either.
June 9th, 2009 at 11:57 amhellinabucket Says
Wholeheartedly agreed.
June 9th, 2009 at 12:00 pmIt tries to insult me, by calling me a loon without any talking points.
Apparently it wants talking points. I think I will humor it.
The question is not “have they been arrested”; the question is why have they not been arrested yet? They have already been tried and convicted in the court of public opinion. Cheney has even openly confessed his crime against humanity. Their guilt is not really the issue, there is enough evidence already to convict.
In typical propagandist fashion, BillO attempts to excuse their war crimes because of a failure of the United States justice system. It’s only the rule of law at stake. What difference does it really make if American laws do not apply to every American equally? /snark
June 9th, 2009 at 12:01 pmralph the wonder locust Says:
The thing, CTH, some species of flies actually increase their activity when they are swatted.
You ignore ‘em, they leave to find something more entertaining.
June 9th, 2009 at 11:56 am
____________
You’re right, you’re right…
Okay, that’s it. I’m done swatting. Done trollwhacking. Done pwning the morons and fascists and science deniers. Obamawipes, JohnM, CFP, welcome to Ignoresville, population: you.
June 9th, 2009 at 12:02 pmI was hoping they’d turn themselves in.
Swine
June 9th, 2009 at 12:04 pmThis is a pretty ridiculous statement, but it only scratches the surface when it comes to the craziness of this clip.
http://progressnotcongress.org/?p=1679
June 9th, 2009 at 12:05 pmLevi… Levi… stay strong my friend.
I know it’s tempting, but you’ll feel guilty afterward.
June 9th, 2009 at 12:06 pmYeah, Bill, and Batman certainly would have done something about it if it were illegal.
June 9th, 2009 at 12:07 pmIt does not rub the lotion on it’s skin, may I turn the hose on it now?
June 9th, 2009 at 12:07 pmBill O’Reilly is not guilty of sexual harassment cause hes not in jail
/snark
O’Reily is guilty cause he settle out of court for millions.
June 9th, 2009 at 12:07 pmTo go by O’Liely’s (and wipey’s) logic, the torture of US soldiers by their Nazi, Chinese and Japanese captors is legal.
June 9th, 2009 at 12:07 pm“Look, if it were illegal, Bush and Cheney would have been arrested.”
It is illegal, and why are these two WAR CRIMINALS not arrested?
Fox News Reports-This just out. An unnamed source has informed us that obamawipe$ has been blowing goats in his neighborhood, it is said that the goats do prefer him to “the freedumb” because of the teabagging followup.
More to cum, stay tuned.
June 9th, 2009 at 12:08 pmignorance of the facts while trying to argue just exposes the ignorant.
June 9th, 2009 at 12:08 pmWipey hates being iggied
June 9th, 2009 at 12:09 pmCTH, don’t get me wrong; I’m still an ardent Whack-A-Troller.
I’ve just reached the point where I recognize that whacking ‘em does more harm than good sometimes. When they try to make points about threads (and inevitably fail) that’s fair game.
When they just go off into bizarro troll world where they’re not tethered to any fixed point known to the Reality-Based Community™, then it’s just pointless to indulge them.
June 9th, 2009 at 12:09 pmralph the wonder locust Says:
The thing, CTH, some species of flies actually increase their activity when they are swatted.
You ignore ‘em, they leave to find something more entertaining.
There’s actually an interesting parallel to rats. If you poison rats, the other rats will simply ramp up breeding to produce more rats. The only effective method for getting rid of rats entirely is to remove their food source — if there’s nothing to eat, they will go somewhere else.
And, of course, rats leave feces wherever they go and contribute nothing useful to human society.
June 9th, 2009 at 12:10 pmbarfly Says:
Nixon did nothing illegal, either. The defense of Cheney and Bush amounts to a Nixon redux.
If the president does it, it isn’t illegal.
Unitary Executive Theory. I believe they practice that in North Korea…
.
Levi the Dungbeetle Says:
The question is not “have they been arrested”; the question is why have they not been arrested yet? They have already been tried and convicted in the court of public opinion. Cheney has even openly confessed his crime against humanity. Their guilt is not really the issue, there is enough evidence already to convict.
In typical propagandist fashion, BillO attempts to excuse their war crimes because of a failure of the United States justice system.
Meanwhile, these are the exact same people who are trying to prevent the criminal justice system from moving forward, by poisoning public opinion against justice itself. That leaves the decision makers (Obama, Holder) unsure whether to waste political capital on something that it appears (because wingnuts are trying to create that appearance) that the public doesn’t want.
If Obama makes it to the end of a term without having appointed a special prosecutor, he becomes an accomplice to Bush and Cheney’s crimes.
June 9th, 2009 at 12:10 pmMaybe Wipey should move to North Korea since he thinks torture is ok. He’ll fit in nicely with Il.
June 9th, 2009 at 12:10 pm“Look, if it were illegal, Bush and Cheney would have been arrested.”
From your mouth to God’s ears.
Be careful what you wish for, Billo.
June 9th, 2009 at 12:10 pmSo thats the troll sound I hear — rat pellets striking the floor.
June 9th, 2009 at 12:11 pmIt upsets Kim when we ignore him too
June 9th, 2009 at 12:11 pmLevi the Dungbeetle Says:
It amazes me that these people think they are above the laws of the land. What amazes me more is the amoral pundits like O’Reilly who would sell his own soul to the likes of Bush and Cheney in an inane attempt to defend thier indefensible actions.
I know Bill is doing it for the money, and if Bush and Cheney were watching that lame attempt by Bill to excuse thier actions, I’m betting they’re wondering if thier money wasn’t better spent buying a good defense lawyer.
June 9th, 2009 at 12:12 pmShorter Bill-O: Pardon! Pardon!
June 9th, 2009 at 12:13 pmCheney thinks the executive branch is above the law. Likely so does Bill-O
June 9th, 2009 at 12:15 pmAs far back as 2002, WE progressives could see how the Chimperor and court of new-clowns were leading the country into infamy.
———————————————————–
http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2002/may/020506a.html
Monday May 6, 2002
Bush Issues Formal Rejection of the International Criminal Court
The court would force the US and other western nations to forfeit sovereignty and traditional due process
WASHINGTON, May 6, 2002 (LSN.ca) - The establishment of the International Criminal Court seemed like a done deal last month after the treaty received the minimum 60 signatures from ratifying countries that delegates originally decided was necessary before moving forward with the controversial judiciary. Progress may be severally hindered now, however, with the announcement Sunday that American President George Bush will not allow it to be ratified by the United States Senate. “We think it was a mistake to have signed it,” an administration official said. “We have said we will not submit it to the Senate for ratification.”
Officials also said that the Bush Administration’s renunciation of the ICC treaty means the United States will not recognize the court’s jurisdiction and will not submit to any of its orders. Additionally, it will assert its refusal to be bound by the 1969 Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties, which outlines the obligations of nations to obey other international treaties. “Article 18 of the Vienna Convention requires signatory nations like the United States to refrain from taking steps to undermine treaties they sign, even if they do not ratify them,” noted the New York Times.
The Bush Administration is sending a formal notice to UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan today. According to CNN, it reads, in part, “This is to inform you, in connection with the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court … the United States does not intend to become a party to the treaty,” the letter says. “Accordingly, the United States has no legal obligation arising from its signature.”
Despite the decision by the U.S., the ICC will begin operating next year in The Hague. Its integrity and its ability to function with authority are in question, however, in light of America’s rejection of the court. The ICC will become the first new international judicial body since the International Court of Justice, or World Court, was created in 1945.
=============================================================
Then the BU$HWIPES were hiding and making excuses for the criminal acts and abuses resulting from both the Afghanistan and Iraq wars.
———————————————
Bush: ‘This government does not torture’
———————————————
Bush says U.S. ‘does not torture people’
President responds to report that 2005 memo relaxed interrogation rules
==============================================
Now Billdo is arguing that TORTURE WAS LEGAL because the Chimperor and its crime family are running around free.
Breaking news Billdo, the international community and any decent human being can recognize TORTURE as a CRIME.
You, Billdo and your lemmings, lost the argument over whether the USA used TORTURE or NOT. Because IT DID.
You may use the same argument, Billdo.
You DID NOT ACTUALLY get Andrea Mackris drunk and abused her.
You did not actually raped her.
But you DID repeat your intentions hoping nobody would notice, WHICH IS ILLEGAL.
Same here, Billdo. The Chimperor and new-clowns did not perform the TORTURE acts themselves. But they did lie, authorize, ignore and hide the abuses they endorsed. WHICH WERE ILLEGAL.
They knew it and continued their lies hoping nobody would notice.
Just because you settled for an undisclosed amount, Billdo, it does not make you any less of a pervert.
June 9th, 2009 at 12:15 pmJust because the Chimperor and new clowns are running free, it does not make them any lesser criminals.
Intrepid Says:
To go by O’Liely’s (and wipey’s) logic, the torture of US soldiers by their Nazi, Chinese and Japanese captors is legal.
Just to demonstrate how flawed your BS is wipey. By advocating torture by saying it’s legal demonstrates how much both you and O’Reilly have dishonored US veterans of wars past who were tortured by their enemy captors. You and O’Reilly are a disgrace to the flag, the uniform and to this country by defending torture, the advocacy of torture as well as inciting it. Inciting violence is against the law. Torture IS an act of violence. You and Billy should be locked up.
June 9th, 2009 at 12:15 pmO’Reilly likes to hide behind the niceties of the law when it suits his political opinion. He is willing to allow torture because it supposedly saved lives which he cannot prove since it is based on opinions of other people. On the other hand, he is willing to ignore the niceties of the law when it comes to the Tiller case. Then he cited the niceties of the law when he was discussing the vigilante case. His opinions are inconsistent and demonstrate that he is willing to bend the law to suit his political opinions. The niceties of the law apply in all cases but he is too blind to see the inconsistencies of his position.
June 9th, 2009 at 12:16 pmShorter Bildo: It’s not wrong if you haven’t been caught. I’ve never been caught, therefore I am always right.
Y’all know that’s how the old crank thinks.
June 9th, 2009 at 12:17 pmBildo has really set the ball up on a tee for us here; all we gotta do is name a crime for which no one has been arrested — say, the murder of Donna Denise Baker in 1979:
Since no one has been arrested in this case, which is Bildo’s standard for proof, then there was obviously no crime committed.
Guess we can close the books on that one.
Right, Bill?
June 9th, 2009 at 12:18 pmIt’s too bad there are no conservatives willing and able to defend Bill here.
That could be interesting.
June 9th, 2009 at 12:23 pmOperation Freeze n Flag is in full effect and seems to be working
stay strong, TPers
June 9th, 2009 at 12:23 pmyeah ralph, the absence of right wingers here defending BillO is quite telling
I wonder what happened to them
June 9th, 2009 at 12:23 pmRantingTommy Says:
Perhaps the true conservatives actually know better than to try to defend something that is so far out of touch with reality?
Just a thought.
June 9th, 2009 at 12:27 pmMy, my. The trolls sure do get riled up when one of their heroes is called out. Of course, whenever one of their heroes is judged and found lacking, another piece of their falsely constructed version of reality collapses.
June 9th, 2009 at 12:28 pmnah Doom, all the true conservatives left the Big Govt Republican party a long time ago
June 9th, 2009 at 12:30 pmtrue dat, pete.
And what’s also somewhat hilarious is when a troll can offer nothing to debate, so it references a totally unrelated person or topic.
Funny, in a sad, pathetic sort of way, the attention it so desperately craves.
June 9th, 2009 at 12:31 pmTommy, I guess this bit of wingnut stupidity from Bildo is just too difficult for the trolls to argue. They can’t figure out how to defend it so they stay away.
I mean, seriously, what’s the best they can say to defend Bildo? If they simply say “Bill’s right” without any further argument, they look like idiots, and if they try to make an argument, they look like fools.
So they’re probably smart — in a rat-cunning sort of way — to keep quiet.
June 9th, 2009 at 12:31 pmGood point. I suppose a troll could try that lame tactic. But really, that would be even more pathetic than just saying “he’s right” with no further justification.
June 9th, 2009 at 12:33 pmO’Reilly defends torture: ‘Look, if it were illegal, Bush and Cheney would have been arrested.’
““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““`
Sure Bill sure, you keep on believing that and believing in unicorns, fairies and the Easter bunny too while you are at it.
The truth is our political and Justice systems will never allow a former president or vice president to be investigated and possibly put on trial and imprisoned for war crimes and for O’Reilly to think otherwise just shows what a moron he really is.
June 9th, 2009 at 12:37 pmWow asswipe is sure obsessed with Olbermann and his manhood. Let me guess asswipe, you furiously toe tap in public restrooms at airports don’t you?
June 9th, 2009 at 12:39 pmRemember when debates where challenging and fun?
Keltoi at Night, Exley, and Rob the hacker come to mind.
Though Exley could be pompous and narcissistic, at least his posts where articulate and at times, fun to read.
What we have now?
I guess if you consider character attacks (liberals are idiots…) or diversion (Hey, look over there, Keith Olbermann) as debatable, then we do have our fair share.
But alas, it is not “debating”, and we are stuck with simple minded folk who can’t think their way out of a shoe box, let alone actually form an intelligent response without regurgitating what they are told.
Too bad. It’s always fun “discussing” opposing viewpoints among friends.
June 9th, 2009 at 12:40 pmSo what other alleged crimes turned out not to be crimes because no one was arrested?
By the way, this is not a new strategy, you guys understand, right? This was also the right’s defense of the administration’s leak of the name of a covert agent in wartime.
June 9th, 2009 at 12:40 pmFester, there is no troll by that name here.
get it?
June 9th, 2009 at 12:41 pmYeah, I miss Keltoi.
Exley was a troll but compared to the clowns we have slithering around here these days, he was frickin’ William F. Buckley.
June 9th, 2009 at 12:43 pmHey wipey, when are you going to refute #148?
June 9th, 2009 at 12:43 pmI don’t know. If the true leader of the party Rush had made this statement the drones would have flocked here to defend him no matter how stupid.
June 9th, 2009 at 12:43 pmHey – I wonder what Bill’O “hasn’t been arrested” for, since he’s so hot to dismantle the police and justice system…
June 9th, 2009 at 12:44 pmralph the wonder locust Says:
Fester, there is no troll by that name here.
get it?
““““““““““““““““““““““““““““`
Hello!
I’m refering to Obamawipe$…
Get it?
June 9th, 2009 at 12:44 pmralph the wonder locust Says:
Well, I guess they are trying to stick with what works for them.
Nevermind its lame and grossly against the rule of law and all that.
Oh well. sucks to be them.
June 9th, 2009 at 12:44 pmTo wipey, it’s only against the law when the enemy does it to us, otherwise……
June 9th, 2009 at 12:46 pmOperation Freeze n Flag works
June 9th, 2009 at 12:47 pmralph,
Exley used to post here continuously, antagonizing as he only could, then suddenly stopped.
I wonder, was he among the throngs of white collar workers that lost their jobs due to Bush, and can no longer afford a computer.
Deliciously ironic as that may be, I hope not.
June 9th, 2009 at 12:47 pmfester, please join with us in OFnF
June 9th, 2009 at 12:47 pmWipey, you are no different than holocaust deniers.
June 9th, 2009 at 12:48 pmMethinks the troll doth cling to tightly to O’Liars grawlsack.
Tell us, is it well-shorn, or do you prefer “au naturale”/ commando-style?
June 9th, 2009 at 12:49 pmThis is coming from a man with a high-ratings, bully pulpit who was advocating that we all shut up! and support our President in a time of war.
How can anyone investigate, let alone prosecute, a sitting President in this uber-patriotic climate and not be strung for treason by O’Reilly, Coulter et al.
June 9th, 2009 at 12:49 pmWipey can’t understand why his party of torture is shrinking so small, you can cram them inside a glove box.
June 9th, 2009 at 12:50 pmSome trolls that come here remind me of that scene in Animal House… “Thank you, sir. May I have another?”
I think an “Ignore” button would be nice, but until then I’ll scroll past their asinine comments or I’ll start posting “(stupid troll’s name) is on your ignore list!”
June 9th, 2009 at 12:50 pmI think we are all misunderstanding BillO. What BillO is trying to say, in his delicate way, is that Bush and Cheney should be arrested immediately.
BillO is just trying to make sure he is not one of the guys that ends up in the special prison for those who ordered torture, and those that made excuses for them.
June 9th, 2009 at 12:52 pmHey, underage drinking is illegal, but since NOT ONE college or university has had it’s entire core of teenagers or young adults under 21 arrested, that must mean absolutely no one is partaking in alcohol consumption that is not of age, correct O’Rally?
June 9th, 2009 at 12:52 pmThis is coming from a man with a high-ratings, bully pulpit who was advocating that we all shut up! and support our President in a time of war.
Hey O’Reilly. We are still at war. Obama is your President. YOU MUST SHUT UP AND SUPPORT HIM. GOT IT AMERICA HATER????
June 9th, 2009 at 12:55 pmHey Billy, I just broke into three homes and stole jewelery, a DVD, money and beat up the owners of their homes but I never got caught. Does that mean burglary, and aggravated assault are legal?
June 9th, 2009 at 12:57 pmHow can O’Reilly so cavalierly talk about arresting the President of the United States?!
It is not like arresting a bank robber. There is no precedent for this in our history.
Nazi Germany had to be defeated by an alliance of countries in a brutal war before it was possible to bring those men to justice.
June 9th, 2009 at 12:58 pmThe needle of the speedometer in the car that crashed into tree was stuck at 85, but since the driver had not been ticketed for speeding they didn’t know what caused the accident!
June 9th, 2009 at 1:00 pmOFnF is working
our poor little scared troll is flailing about in a desperate attempt to be recognized
good job, TP
June 9th, 2009 at 1:00 pmRantingTommy Says:
OFnF is working
What is OFnF?
June 9th, 2009 at 1:03 pmOperation Freeze n Flag – when a troll is no longer fun to smack around, we just ignore it (Freeze), and Flag it
It makes them crazy, which is even funnier than smacking them around.
June 9th, 2009 at 1:05 pmOperation Freeze and Flag, withholding direct response to stupid trolls and flagging them.
June 9th, 2009 at 1:07 pmInteresting.
June 9th, 2009 at 1:08 pmWhen a troll is ignored, it starts posting to itself, continuously.
Why?
Can we get Fester on board?
June 9th, 2009 at 1:08 pmralph the wonder locust Says:
So what other alleged crimes turned out not to be crimes because no one was arrested?
June 9th, 2009 at 12:40 pm
Zodiac killings — not a crime?
Jack the Ripper murders — not a crime?
Osama bin Laden never charged — 9/11 not a crime?
Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld never charged — Iraq War/torture not crimes?
Where does that leave Hitler and Stalin?
June 9th, 2009 at 1:09 pmAnother interesting factoid:
June 9th, 2009 at 1:09 pmWhen being ignored, a troll generally changes the subject to someone’s genitalia.
Why?
That’s Stage Three of FnF. It’s great.
Stage Four is a full melt-down.
June 9th, 2009 at 1:10 pmAnd yet another interesting observation.
June 9th, 2009 at 1:12 pmWhen a troll is completely ignored, and tires of posting to itself and others genitalia, it offers that it “won” whatever mythical debate it thinks it is in.
Why?
well, beetle, being a right wing ignorant coward, a troll generally is not very connected to reality
it thinks it won, we should just let it think that
because that is funny too
June 9th, 2009 at 1:13 pmI like hearing about the opinions and emotions of Righty “manson family” types.
Mr. Wipes has that frenetic, creepy, Tex Watson vibe about him – interesting case-study in the effects of demagoguery.
June 9th, 2009 at 1:15 pmRantingTommy,
But, would that be truly fair to the troll?
Thinking that it has won a hypothetical political debate, then actually going out into the real world (aka leaving it’s mother’s basement) and actually having a confrontation?
That.
June 9th, 2009 at 1:16 pmWould.
Not.
Be.
Pretty.
Not at all!
Excellent idea, Tommy.
Plus I think that is the typical precursor to a full melt-down.
Stage Four, comin’ up!
June 9th, 2009 at 1:17 pmralph
It’s unbelievably sad that someone has to point out how pathetically reasoned a position like that is.
The fact that Bush and Cheney haven’t been arrested doesn’t mean no crime was committed. I’ll even go so far as to say that even if they, personally, were found not guilty of any wrongdoing, that doesn’t mean that torture is legal.
I think that people like Bill O’Reilly, Glen Beck, Rush Limbaugh, Ann Coulter….geez, who else?…..um….well, (fill-in-the-blank with another Fox News-esque cretin) say crap like this because they know it is so stunningly stupid that it is almost impossible to refute, mainly because you never thought you’d have to correct such a gross misrepresentation of reality. It’s amazing. It’s amazing that they actually say this shit, and it’s even more amazing that there are some people dumb enough to swallow it.
June 9th, 2009 at 1:17 pmit’s ok beetle
right wingers are too cowardly to confront anyone outside an anonymous blog
June 9th, 2009 at 1:20 pmimagine being so stupid as to think Osama was charged in 1998 for a crime that happened in 2001
THAT would be incredibly stupid
troll-level stupid even
June 9th, 2009 at 1:23 pmPlease don’t feed the trolls – they are here just to spread their crap over the site, and when we feed them it gives them cause to continue.
June 9th, 2009 at 1:27 pmIt is something they are compelled to do because their party and its leaders have left them with absolutely nothing positive about the condition of the nation post-Bush. The Bush years have traumatized them – their love of him and all things republican has backfired on them.
Yeah, I used to play soccer at a pretty good level, and every once in a while we’d match up against a team that was so bad, they gave us trouble. They didn’t make the moves that we’d expect good players to make, and we would make a move of our own, throw a fake and quickly go in the other direction, and they were there blocking us because they hadn’t reacted quickly enough to the fake in the first place.
That’s the kind of dynamic you’re describing, smidget.
It’s a tactic designed to confound the opposition by completely ignoring the rules of reasonable debate.
The only reason it works is because no one but us and Jon Stewart will call them on it.
June 9th, 2009 at 1:28 pmMaybe Mr. Wipes can tell us about “the ideal way to touch off a race war that will forever change the world”
June 9th, 2009 at 1:28 pmYou’re right, Tommy. That WOULD be stupid. I can’t even imagine anyone stupid enough to try it.
well… maybe you’re right. A troll might be stupid enough. On a really, really bad day.
June 9th, 2009 at 1:29 pmtombaker, there is no one here by that name.
June 9th, 2009 at 1:30 pmSpeaking of handing them their ass upon a platter perhaps it is time for me to provide a little community service…
June 9th, 2009 at 1:30 pmLet Bush and Cheney travel to Spain.
June 9th, 2009 at 1:32 pmralph
It’s like a pro going against a novice. The novice will probably win, but not because they are better than the pro. They will win because they have such a poor concept of the game and the pro is simply unable to lower themselves to that level of inexperience.
It’s genius. Well, kind of genius, in a “dumb-as-a-rock” kind of way.
June 9th, 2009 at 1:34 pmdbadass, you don’t really need to suit up just yet. The Freeze n Flag game plan is working just fine. Fester jumped offsides once or twice, and tombaker got called for illegal procedure, but we’ve achieved Stage Three (different than your Stage Three) and are on the verge of full melt down.
June 9th, 2009 at 1:42 pmFor fcuk’s sake, asswipe.
“Look, if it were illegal, Bush and Cheney would have been arrested.”
That’s what he said. If you want to parse words, you’ve come to the wrong place. Everyone who reads that knows exactly what it says – that what they did wasn’t illegal because they weren’t arrested. That’s stupid. You know it’s stupid. I know it’s stupid. Everyone on planet Earth knows it’s stupid. You continuing to try to prove that it’s not stupid is why YOU’RE stupid.
Now shut the fcuk up. Jebus.
June 9th, 2009 at 1:42 pmSorry for ruining the streak, ralph. I just couldn’t take the stupidity anymore. It’s contagious, you know.
June 9th, 2009 at 1:44 pmdbadass, did you see where RantingTommy suggested how stupid it would be if someone thought that a dude could be charged in 1998 for a crime that occurred in 2001?
Can you imagine someone that stupid?
Besides, since no one was arrested for the 2001 “crime” it apparently wasn’t a crime, according to Bildo.
June 9th, 2009 at 1:44 pmoh, smidget, I’m disappointed in you. You let the pressure get to you.
Just tell yourself that it’s completely inconsequential. That always work for me. Especially when every subsequent comment reinforces that perception.
June 9th, 2009 at 1:46 pmright then – beg your pardon….
June 9th, 2009 at 1:47 pm.
Dear obamawipe$,
Re: OBL
TORA BORA
p.s.
Bush wasn’t too concerned, anyway.
/end
.
June 9th, 2009 at 1:54 pmo well, it looks like even a partial freeze still turns the troll to slush
June 9th, 2009 at 1:56 pmI can own this fool yet again in minutes…It is embarassing how easy it is….
June 9th, 2009 at 2:40 pmGood ol’ raving lunatic Billo. It never ceases to amaze me how these individual’s still have a format where people will listen to them. I think it says something very disturbing about our country. There are still vast numbers of people who choose to be ignorant and frightened.
June 9th, 2009 at 2:42 pmThanks for the tips, ralph. I’ll work on that.
It’s kind of who I am, you know? I see someone has dropped something, I go to help them pick it up. I see someone with their head crammed that far up their ass, and I go to try to help them remove it.
Anywho.
Regarding being charged in 1998 for a crime committed in 2001. I don’t see why that’s not possible. I mean, I seem to recall that happening before, don’t you? I’m sure you do. I remember a handsome man (since gone crazy, I think) and some bald people, arresting people before they killed someone…..oh, wait. That was Minority Report. Nevermind. You’re totally right, we don’t charge people with crimes they haven’t yet committed.
June 9th, 2009 at 2:48 pmWaterboarding those 3 terrorists was technically LEGAL.
Not only that, it was the MORALLY CORRECT action to take.
Don’t you think our President, who had no problem declassifying information that on its own could and would be used to paint the previous administration as a bunch of illegal torturers, would follow through to the end with the infliction of damage if he could? That would be the coup de gras- no valuable intel gained to boot!
June 9th, 2009 at 2:53 pmWaterboarding is not legal. We’ve been over this. Stop saying it, because you know it’s a complete and total falsehood.
It doesn’t matter who they were, are, or ever will be, torture is against US and international law, waterboarding is defined legally (and by anyone with more than two brain cells) as torture, and the US tortured people that we had detained.
Nothing you say can ever change that fact, and nothing that you try to throw out to make it seem okay will change the reality that you have to live with every day: that you’re a sick bastard who thinks it’s okay to torture human beings. You disgust me.
June 9th, 2009 at 3:04 pmYou’re wrong midget, I mean smidget,
Read the treaties. In the cases of those terrorists, it was legal.
You don’t know what you’re talking about, stop spreading misinformation.
June 9th, 2009 at 3:09 pmIf you ment smidget you would have simply corrected it rather than adding the second. What bs…
June 9th, 2009 at 3:10 pmseems cookies work a lot better at actually getting actionable intelligence. It also seems the bs we have been told about the “info” obtained by waterboarding was bs and lead to nothing significant. I suppose that Time magazine article questions your assumptions so will have to be discounted…
June 9th, 2009 at 3:14 pmI’ve read the treaties, and they make it quite clear that there are two types of people – military personnel and non-military personnel, and both are protected from torture.
Adding a third class of people so you can torture them is not legal, either, genius. It’s obviously you that needs to read the treaties. Here, I’ll help get you started.
http://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu3/b/91.htm
Choke on it, you disgusting piece of crap.
June 9th, 2009 at 3:20 pmGeez, you make me so fcuking sick.
People who advocate, condone, or even apologize for torture don’t deserve the life they’re wasting.
June 9th, 2009 at 3:22 pmRomartin, It was not legal to torture terrorists then, or now. The Geneva Convention is quite explicit in its language against waterboarding specifically.
If you have a problem with the treaties the US has agreed to, feel free to leave America, we would be much better off without you.
June 9th, 2009 at 3:23 pmI have a new name for this a-hole, “Baghdad Bill”. Listen fallafel boy, Bush and Cheney will be arrested and go to jail, where YOU should be for inciting to murder Dr. Tiller!
June 9th, 2009 at 4:07 pmI always say, it wouldn’t be a TP thread without a visit from our foreign porn queen! ;)
June 9th, 2009 at 4:11 pmYo, RoMoron16985, or whatever you call yourself — just don’t call yourself “smart”. Obviously, you’re a fool to convince yourself torture by waterboarding is legal. It’s not. Never was.
June 9th, 2009 at 4:18 pmobamawipe$ Says:
So criminals not caught yet haven’t done anything illegal
Can anyone produce this actual quote from Bill O’Reilly?
Nothing, yet?
Tick, tock, tick, tock…..
“Look, if it were illegal, Bush and Cheney would have been arrested.”
It’s funny how you guys keep giving the exact phrasing you’ll accept or the exact wording you demand. It’s the exact same statement.
Are you incapable of reading and can only text-match? What, are you a Perl script or something?
.
Romartin16985 Says:
Waterboarding those 3 terrorists was technically LEGAL.
Technically, waterboarding is torture, and torturing people is illegal. If you want to get all technical about it. The laws we have passed say those things.
.
Romartin16985 Says:
Don’t you think our President, who had no problem declassifying information that on its own could and would be used to paint the previous administration as a bunch of illegal torturers, would follow through to the end with the infliction of damage if he could? That would be the coup de gras- no valuable intel gained to boot!
And wave a white flag in front of the “politicizing decisions” crowd? He’s a little smarter than that. I hope he’s going to do something about it at some point, but before he does he’s going to want to have all of the evidence lined up and ready to go first.
June 9th, 2009 at 4:29 pmDRxJapanese Beetle Says:
Interesting.
When a troll is ignored, it starts posting to itself, continuously.
Why?
So he can give his/hers/its other aliases the likes of asswiper who created them himself/herself/itself equal opportunity to post and hide the FACT he is actually talking to himself?
June 9th, 2009 at 4:30 pmelbruce, cruz
Waterboarding THOSE 3 TERRORISTS was NOT illegal. They are excluded from protections as described in the conventions. Don’t you get that they weren’t affiliated with any specific state and were not abiding by the normal practices of war, and as such ARE NOT AFFORDED THE PROTECTIONS YOU’RE TALKING ABOUT!
el bruce
Are you saying that you believe Obama knows the memos show another attack was prevented, and you are okay with this?
Don’t you realize this means the President knowingly played politics with our national security? That he released information for political purposes only, knowing it would make his opponents look bad, and did this even though he would also be giving the same information to enemies of the United States?
If you believe this and are fine with it then you are
June 9th, 2009 at 5:40 pmWhere does the Geneva Convention make an exception for torture for someone without a nation?
Please provide a link to your evidence.
We will wait.
June 9th, 2009 at 5:54 pmRomartin16985 Says:
Waterboarding THOSE 3 TERRORISTS was NOT illegal. They are excluded from protections as described in the conventions. Don’t you get that they weren’t affiliated with any specific state…
Yes. It was, is, and always shall be illegal to torture another human being. Period.
Plus. Since you just admitted that they were men without countries you have just admitted that we illegally invaded two sovereign nations without cause. Thanks for proving our case so eloquently.
June 9th, 2009 at 6:03 pmNo pete, it was not illegal in these 3 cases. Read the conventions.
You have the luxury of not being in the position of having to make the decision to waterboard 3 murderous terrorists when presented with a situation where lives were at stake.
Maybe you, as President, would have shrugged your shoulders and let another attack occur after all your acceptable techniques had been tried.
I doubt that the families and the world would have been comforted, as you apparently would be, that at least the terrorists had not experienced any discomfort.
June 9th, 2009 at 6:20 pmRomartin16985 Says:
Waterboarding THOSE 3 TERRORISTS was NOT illegal. They are excluded from protections as described in the conventions.
Don’t you get that they weren’t affiliated with any specific state and were not abiding by the normal practices of war, and as such ARE NOT AFFORDED THE PROTECTIONS YOU’RE TALKING ABOUT!
I don’t grant to Al-Qaeda or the Taliban the premise that they are enemy soldiers of any recognized state. That would only elevate their legitimacy. They are common criminals. They are to be treated as such.
However, the Geneva Conventions cover a lot more than just POW’s; one doesn’t have to be a soldier of a sinatory state to fall under their protection, as written. If all you know about the Geneva Conventions is what you learned watching Hogan’s Heroes… then yeah, you’re a fcuking Republican, alright.
Here’s the full text of the Geneva Conventions. I refer you specifically to Common Article 3; the Scotus ruled that Gitmo prisoners are not exempt from it in Hamdan vs. Rumsfeld.
There’s also the http://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu3/b/h_cat39.htm, effective June 26 1987, to add to it.
Also the War Crimes Act.
The 2nd Circuit ruling on Filartiga v. Peña-Irala ruled torture to be is universal, obligatory, specific and definable. Which is to say, it’s illegal to do it to anybody, anywhere.
While we’re at it, I’ll throw in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
For you to say that torture isn’t illegal ignores vast quantities of law; multiple laws, declarations, conventions, rulings, and rulings based on rulings. So you can take your little Col. Klink crap out of here.
.
Romartin16985 Says:
Are you saying that you believe Obama knows the memos show another attack was prevented, and you are okay with this?
I didn’t say anything remotely like that.
June 9th, 2009 at 6:34 pmEd: meant to say…
There’s also the Convention Against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment, effective June 26 1987, to add to it.
June 9th, 2009 at 6:35 pmYour interpretation of “the conventions” is hardly relevant. Every U.S. law dealing with the subject of human rights explicitly forbids the abuse of prisoners.
Although, I might add, that the overwhelming majority of scholars would disagree with your interpretation of international law as well.
And thanks, again, for admitting that the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq were illegal.
June 9th, 2009 at 6:42 pmRomartin16985 Says:
No pete, it was not illegal in these 3 cases. Read the conventions.
Hamdan v. Rumsfeld:
Disagree with me all you want, but my SCOTUS trumps your imagination.
.
Romartin16985 Says:
You have the luxury of not being in the position of having to make the decision to waterboard 3 murderous terrorists when presented with a situation where lives were at stake.
I do have the “luxury” of actually having moral standards though, so my decision’s already been made.
Torture doesn’t work, btw.
.
Romartin16985 Says:
Maybe you, as President, would have shrugged your shoulders and let another attack occur after all your acceptable techniques had been tried.
Except that torturing people never prevented any attacks.
Also, torture doesn’t work.
.
Romartin16985 Says:
That he released information for political purposes only, knowing it would make his opponents look bad, and did this even though he would also be giving the same information to enemies of the United States?
I believed he released the information in response to a court order requiring him to do so. That is to say, he obeyed the law.
I have yet to see a credible argument even from the most rabid wingnut regarding how the information divulged would be of any assistance to any enemies of the United States.
June 9th, 2009 at 7:16 pmelbruce
He’s the flipping President of the United States, those memos could have stayed classified! And you sit on your high horse as a moral lightweight if you would let thousands die so that 3 terrorists wouldn’t experience waterboarding.
You also have no basis to say we didn’t gain valuable intel, all you can do is continue your emotional ranting against all things Bush.
June 9th, 2009 at 7:50 pmRomartin16985 Says:
He’s the flipping President of the United States, those memos could have stayed classified!
The POTUS has to follow the law. This is the crux of the disagreement we’re having. Everything you’re arguing here, you’re arguing that the President gets to break the law.
You’re wrong.
The founding fathers created the USA explicitly with the foundation that nobody is above the law.
You hate America. Please leave it, and stop trying to make it into something it’s not.
June 9th, 2009 at 8:05 pmI get such a kick out of this blog. So many people arguing back and forth about who the f^%k is right and who’s wrong.
NOBODY is going to convince ANYONE of anything.
What a bunch of blathering. And before someone tells me to piss off, I’ll remind you – I like reading the inane comments. It reminds me I’m not as f^%ked up as you people.
June 9th, 2009 at 8:30 pmI just want to make this point again, and a little more thoroughly: the SCOTUS ruled in Hamdan v. Rumsfeld that Common Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions does apply to members of Al-Qaeda. Wingnuts who say otherwise are merely repeating an argument already rejected by the SCOTUS.
Common Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions includes the following text:
The United States has violated all four of these provisions:
(a) We have committed violence on detainees. We have killed them. We have certainly marred many of them for life. We have been intentionally cruel to them, and we have tortured them.
(b) We have done things to their children in order to get them to talk, thereby taking hostages.
(c) The photographic evidence of humiliation and degradation is both extensive and incontrovertable.
(d) Bush’s multiple military tribunals constitute carrying passing sentences withough previous judgement prounounced by a regularly constituted court, etc.
Now, you can scream “they’re terrorists, we know it, how can you complain about it!” But the fact is, SCOTUS has ruled that doing these things is illegal. Bush, Cheney, Rice, Wolfowitz and/or God knows how many others conspired to give orders to do these things. Therefore, they did something illegal. Even if you think it’s the “right thing to do,” it was still clearly illegal.
Now, I’m not judge, jury and executioner here. All I’m really asking for is a special prosecutor to prepare the case on this. An SP is necessary because a Presidential administration is implicated in these crimes, even if it’s not the current Presidential administration. When I say this, conservatives should realize that I’m really cutting them a break here – Ken Starr aside, the SP law is designed to be as non-political as possible. That is, any other approach would still be more political than appointing a special prosecutor.
However, this cannot go un-investigated. Whatever case there is to be made, should be investigated, assembled and then presented to a court of law. If the court rejects that, then fine – your guys get off. Frankly, it’s the only chance they’re ever going to have to gain any credibility in their protestations of innocence.
Otherwise they go down in the history books as war criminals, even if they never are indicted. It’s clear that what they ordered is a crime, and they’ve openly and repeatedly admitted to ordering those acts. Most of the people in the world who don’t vote for “conservatives” can figure out for themselves that 2 + 2 = 4.
June 9th, 2009 at 8:32 pmmartypants Says:
I get such a kick out of this blog. So many people arguing back and forth about who the f^%k is right and who’s wrong.
NOBODY is going to convince ANYONE of anything.
I’m fully aware I’m not going to convince a wingnut that the sky is blue, if admitting the sky ain’t orange means that Cheney has to go to jail.
But there are four reasons why I fight with wingnuts:
1. There might be some third parties here who haven’t looked at it as much as we have. Maybe they’ve heard the numb-nuts on FAUX Noise saying these things and they’re interested in some more information on the subject. There’s a lot they should know. As long as insanity is allowed to roam free without rebuttal, we all suffer its consequences. So I respond.
2. Frankly, being forced to come up with responses to wingnut insanity, including logical reasoning, citations and research, and looking at things from different angles, helps me to clarify my own thinking on a particular subject. I know why I believe what I believe much better than I used to, in no small part because the wingnuts their insanity to me to deal with. Think of it as an intellectual exercise.
3. Sometimes the points the wingnuts deliver here show up more than 24 hours before FAUX Noise or some unelected Republican celebutante picks them up. Bill’O’s complaint cited at the top of this thread is one such; somebody was saying here over three days ago that BushCo must be innocent because they haven’t already been arrested; now Bill’O’s saying it. So dealing with them puts me ahead of the news curve for many things.
4. Delivering rhetorical flying roundhouse kicks through wingnut skulls is just plain fun! I mean, it’s not like they’re people or anything…
June 9th, 2009 at 8:41 pmI dont care what anyone says … nobodys hates like a liberal… you gotta admire how much passion they put into the hatred of anything or anyone they disagree with. …. ya’ll hate on …. makes me sad for the rest of us who believe in allowing others to have different opinions …But never fear the left will show us the true light … that hatred of America and her greatness is the one true path to socialist enlightenment ….. Ok so myabe I am being a bit sarcastic but really …. dial back the hatred people …..
June 9th, 2009 at 9:45 pmIf “liberals” are so full of hate; may I ask when was the last time a member of a prominent “liberal” group blew away some cops, or doctors, or soldiers, or churchgoers, or anyone all the “liberals” “hate” so much?
June 9th, 2009 at 9:58 pmgivemelibertyordeath Says:
I dont care what anyone says … nobodys hates like a liberal… you gotta admire how much passion they put into the hatred of anything or anyone they disagree with. …. ya’ll hate on ….
What if it was your family that had been kidnapped by the Bush administration and were being tortured in a secret base offshore? What would you do then? Huh? Huh?
WHAT IF?!?
I think my outrage is perfectly justified, thank you. I have been given ample reasons to hate you. Yes, hate. Accusing me of hatred makes no point, because I freely admit it. I hate those who seek to destroy my country. That includes both Osama Bin Laden and all of the “conservative” apologists of torture.
But let’s compare what we’re complaining about here:
On the one hand: every disgusting thing we ever blamed Nazis for
On the other hand: being called mean names on the internet.
You equate these? Even remotely? Then you are truly vile.
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June 10th, 2009 at 4:29 amThe Queen has arrived!
michael99 4:07 am
elbruce
There are extremists in every group, I could give you names of those on the left as well, but I don’t need to take that idiotic position.
You are a moral lightweight, unwilling to see that sometimes the adults of this world have their hand forced by evil doers; Thank God someone such as yourself was not in power then.
I don’t know about hate, but nobody shows an inability to see what’s right in front of them as do liberals here.
June 10th, 2009 at 10:49 amRomartin16985 Says:
There are extremists in every group, I could give you names of those on the left as well, but I don’t need to take that idiotic position.
We don’t put them in charge of the Democratic party and the country though. All y’all are extremists, and you elevate the most extreme among yourselves to positions of power. Being further away from the center is rewarded, and being closer to the center is punished.
The GOP is not only “wandering in the wilderness” right now, it’s actively travelling in that direction.
Everyone in the “mainstream” GOP at present excuses and justifies the following:
1. Torture.
2. Signing statements defying the law.
3. Holding people indefinitely without charges or trial.
4. Rape.
5. “Unitary Executive Theory,” i.e. Fascism.
6. Politicizing intelligence gathering
7. Politicizing science.
… there are many others, but I’m sick of having to remember the list every other day because some wingnut is shrugging his shoulders and trying to look innocent with a “who me?” expression. It comes down to this: you have been systematically and intentionally attempting to dismantle every key principle that the United States was founded on.
So don’t act all butt-hurt when I declare you an enemy of freedom and explain how and why you have earned the scorn, derision, and yes – hatred – of all decent Americans everywhere.
June 10th, 2009 at 12:23 pmelbruce
History will show just how destructive liberalism in general and the current administration in particular is to our economy and our freedoms. You are behind the curve in your understanding of this as many other places have already experienced the devastation of tyranny in the name of building a Utopia.
Your comments don’t hurt, just the opposite.
June 10th, 2009 at 1:11 pm