In An Attempt To Criticize Health Reform, Coburn Smears Veteran Health Care As ‘Untenable To Most Americans’
In An Attempt To Criticize Health Reform, Coburn Smears Veteran Health Care As ‘Untenable To Most Americans’
This morning on C-Span, Sen. Tom Coburn (R-OK) laid out his criticism of the proposed public insurance option in Obama’s health reform plan. Like other opponents of reform, Coburn repeated the empty Frank Luntz-engineered talking points that claim “bureaucrats” will be making health decisions. In doing so, Coburn derided the Veterans Health Administration, a program that boasts bipartisan support and has provided American veterans with some of the best health care in the world:
COBURN: If you look at VA even though VA is improving, it’s still not up to the level of health care in the rest of the country. The idea that a bureaucrat somewhere will make decisions about health care and coverage I think is untenable to most Americans. […] Why be critical of a government run plan, insurance plan? And I’m not alone on this, the fact is, is the government hasn’t proven itself responsible in any health care program that is run so far.
Watch it:
Coburn is quick to disparage the VHA as “untenable to most Americans” and not “up to the level of health care in the rest of the country.” However, the program has provided quality care to millions of sick and injured veterans since its inception:
– An Annals of Internal Medicine study that compared veterans health facilities with commercial managed-care systems in their treatment of diabetes patients found in seven out of seven measures of quality, the VA provided better care.
– The National Committee for Quality Assurance ranked VHA hospitals over non-VHA hospitals like Johns Hopkins, the Mayo Clinic and Massachusetts General.
– A recent study by the RAND corporation found that “VA patients were more likely to receive recommended care” and “received consistently better care across the board, including screening, diagnosis, treatment and follow up.”
Not only does the VHA provide better quality coverage, but it spends less per patient than other health systems despite having to care for “older, sicker, poorer, and patients more prone to mental illness, homelessness and substance abuse than the population as a whole.”
Though Coburn claims to be a proponent of competition in the health care market, his opposition to a public plan would allow private health insurance companies — who are the largest single industry contributing to Coburn’s campaign coffers — to continue to monopolize the system. “Creating a government-administered health insurance option is a totally different animal from creating a government-run health provider system,” notes Matt Yglesias on Coburn’s misrepresentation of the public option.
A public plan would be a federally backed insurance program that anyone could opt into if they do not have health insurance or if they are not satisfied with their current private health insurance plan. The plan would promote meaningful choice and would create a publicly accountable innovation leader.
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In An Attempt To Criticize Health Reform, Coburn Smears Veteran Health Care As ‘Untenable To Most Americans’
– - Sen. Dumb from Oklahoma has weighed in. Now may we hear from Sen. Dumber (Inhofe) from Oklahoma?
June 10th, 2009 at 12:13 pmCOBURN: If you look at VA even though VA is improving, it’s still not up to the level of health care in the rest of the country
I think he forgets that the reason why the VA was so horrendous was the continuous lack of funding that the Bush Administration gave to its cannon fodder once they came home.
June 10th, 2009 at 12:14 pmIt was mainly actual military hospitals that were shown to be nightmares. The VA’s doing just fine.
June 10th, 2009 at 12:14 pmThis is what happens when they try to defend (the indefensible) talking points. They end up saying some incredibly stupid things. Just ask Michelle Bachmann.
June 10th, 2009 at 12:15 pmHey Coburn, why do you hate our wartime veterans?
June 10th, 2009 at 12:16 pmWhy doesn’t some reporter ask the obvious question; “If the Veteran’s Health Administration is so lacking, what have you done Senator to dramatically improve that situation in the last 6 or 8 years?”
June 10th, 2009 at 12:20 pm“We support the troops.” My arse-Coburn’s a fraud and should be exposed repeatedly!
these Reps will simly stop AT NOTHING to protect the profits-above-all-else retarded system that goes for a “health care” system in this country..
they always say they don’t want the “govt” or “bureaucrats” getting betw. patients and their doctors, but they seem to have no problem at all with INSURANCE COMPANIES constantly getting in the way betw patients and their doctors.. no problem at all with a business model which relies on simply: the more claims you deny the more money you make — period. THIS FRAUD of a system is what Reps and other retards are trying to protect. Of course they are complicit in how insurance cos. STEAL from their policyholders by denying claims whenever they can get away with it, since most of them rely on cash coming FROM THESE VERY THIEVES to bankroll their campaings…
these retards are always saying that in other countries folks have to wait for procedures, etc.. well, what about Medicare? do patients on Medicare have to wait months for surgery and stuff?? I honestly don’t get why we can’t just expand Medicare (or Medicaid in the states) so that folks who can’t get health insurance in the private sector have a public option… THESE BASTARDS SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF THEMSELVES FOR PROTECTING A SYSTEM THAT IS NOTHING BUT A FRAUD BASED ***PURELY ON PROFITS AND NOT ON HEATLH CARE AT ALL***
June 10th, 2009 at 12:21 pmCoburn is an elitist. I was employed by the VA right after I graduated from college as a staff RN. The VA provided exceptional care to our veterans. This was during the 1980’s. It was during the Bush administration that the degree of care provided to our military returning from Iraq, that the care began to diminish. The Republicans talk a big game about supporting our vets yet they won’t provide the funding needed to help our vets. The G-NO-Ps should stfu because they don’t know what they are talking about. They are nothing but a bunch of elitist a$$whipes.
June 10th, 2009 at 12:22 pmIf the public supported option is such a bad idea, then Coburn needs to drop his tax payer paid health care plan.
June 10th, 2009 at 12:23 pmThe idea that a bureaucrat somewhere will make decisions about health care and coverage I think is untenable to most Americans.
He’s quite right about that. I find untenable the bureaucrat sitting in his office at Blue Cross making decisions about my health care. What I also find untenable is that this bureaucrat will receive a bonus if s/he denies me the health care I need.
The right is fighting a losing battle here. Everything scary they say will happen if we have a public health care option is already happening to us under the private for-profit health insurance industry. Personally I would rather have a government bureaucrat, who will have no financial gain if they deny me coverage, make decisions on my health care.
June 10th, 2009 at 12:24 pmHey Coburn, why do you hate America?
June 10th, 2009 at 12:24 pmbadger1 says…
Excellent question. Strange how no pseudo-reporter even thinks to ask it.
June 10th, 2009 at 12:26 pmThe only thing wrong with the VA today is the same thing that is wrong with Medicare today. George Bush starved both those health care systems by cutting back on funding and payments to providers. His hope was to have them fail so that he could replace them with a private for-profit system.
June 10th, 2009 at 12:27 pmNotice how they have no problem with insurance companies making decisions about health care.
How many people die each year because an insurance “bureaucrat” denies or cancels coverage?
June 10th, 2009 at 12:28 pmI saw coburn this morning and unfortunately, he sounded sane. He wouldn’t tell how much cash he received from insurance companies (blew it off)so thanks for the link.
June 10th, 2009 at 12:29 pmYglesias’ point is a very important one.
“Creating a government-administered health insurance option is a totally different animal from creating a government-run health provider system.”
It makes Coburn’s comparison irrelevant from the get go.
#9 Cats r Flyfishn makes the relevant comparison. Coburn and all other federal elected officials HAVE GOVERNMENT RUN HEALTH INSURANCE and don’t seem to have a problem getting their care despite the existence of “bureaucrats.”
These people try to give us the impression that under the private insurance industry the only people making our health care decisions are us and our doctors. Bullsh*t. Under private insurance, doctors recommend a course of treatment, we have to get permission from our insurers to receive it OR we have to pay for it from our own pockets.
The system right now IS a bunch of bureaucrats making our medical decisions for us. Single payer would END that.
June 10th, 2009 at 12:32 pmNot only does the VHA provide better quality coverage, but it spends less per patient than other health systems despite having to care for “older, sicker, poorer, and patients more prone to mental illness, homelessness and substance abuse than the population as a whole.”
That’s because it doesn’t spend 40% of it’s income on million dollar executive salaries, bonuses for bureaucrats who deny us care, advertising on TV and radio and bribing doctors and hospitals.
June 10th, 2009 at 12:33 pmI love it when the R’s continually line up on the wrong side of an unwinnable argument. No matter how they try to spin it, all this line of reasoning is going to do in the long run is to highlight the GOP’s refusal to take care of vets, in contrast with the Dems.
June 10th, 2009 at 12:33 pmBadger1 Says:
Why doesn’t some reporter ask the obvious question; “If the Veteran’s Health Administration is so lacking, what have you done Senator to dramatically improve that situation in the last 6 or 8 years?”
Whenever a Republican says “reform,” you can merely substitute the word “destroy.”
.
Pseudonym Says:
Yglesias’ point is a very important one.
“Creating a government-administered health insurance option is a totally different animal from creating a government-run health provider system.”
It makes Coburn’s comparison irrelevant from the get go.
True dat. Even if us libs got everything we wanted, our health care situation still wouldn’t be like that of England, where the providers work for the government; only the insurance would be socialized, providing care would still be a free market.
June 10th, 2009 at 12:35 pmWhat these bobbleheads fail to realize is that most Americans are either in a managed care plan or are uninsured. And anyone in a managed care plan already knows that bureaucrats determine what care they are allowed to access, not their doctors.
Anyone without health coverage would be happy to get anything that doesn’t force them to pay billed charges which are artifically inflated to make up for the deep discounts the big plans negotiate and the non-payment of other uninsured.
The biggest part of any public plan must include a safeguard to prevent the private and so-called non-profits (the Blues) from dumping the sick into the public plan. Trust me, they will unless it’s *gasp* regulated.
PEACE
June 10th, 2009 at 12:37 pmThese people try to give us the impression that under the private insurance industry the only people making our health care decisions are us and our doctors. Bullsh*t. Under private insurance, doctors recommend a course of treatment, we have to get permission from our insurers to receive it OR we have to pay for it from our own pockets.
Since the AMA backs Obama’s health care principals and many physicians back a plan for universal health care, I think that speaks volumes about how frustrated doctors are with our current for-profit health insurance industry.
http://www.ama-assn.org/amednews/2009/04/27/gvl10427.htm
June 10th, 2009 at 12:37 pmBadger1 Says:
Why doesn’t some reporter ask the obvious question; “If the Veteran’s Health Administration is so lacking, what have you done Senator to dramatically improve that situation in the last 6 or 8 years?”
Isn’t the yellow ribbon magnet on the car enough?
And to once again quote hanshiro:
The MSN need to be overthrown by journalists.
PEACE
June 10th, 2009 at 12:38 pmspencers mom Says:
What these bobbleheads fail to realize is that most Americans are either in a managed care plan or are uninsured. And anyone in a managed care plan already knows that bureaucrats determine what care they are allowed to access, not their doctors.
I wish that some Democratic organization would create an advertisement that resurrects Harry and Louise warning us about what a public health plan would do to us. Then it should end with, something like “And today the for-profit health insurance industry has done to us everything they warned a public health plan would do”.
June 10th, 2009 at 12:39 pmRethuglican Senators such as Coburn and Inhofe are the worst Americans in our country. Just like Bush and Cheney and all, they are liars, they are thieves, they are murderers.
Mike Malloy said it first. I stole it from him.
June 10th, 2009 at 12:40 pmThe states that need the most help have the most idiotic representation. It’s no coincidence that Oklahoma is one of the states always at the bottom for education, health, and basic standard of living.
Coburn knows better, being a dr, but he’s in bed with the for-profit machine. He knows first hand how it works and yet chooses to side with insurance and pharma corps. Pathetic, really. He and the like are all for gov’t control of women’s choice, who you can marry, and on.
June 10th, 2009 at 12:42 pmElBruce sed:
“…all this line of reasoning is going to do in the long run is to highlight the GOP’s refusal to take care of vets, in contrast with the Dems.”
Remember when Bush and the Democratic Congress were arm-wrestling over the raise for the military? And how Bush threatened to veto a bill Congress wanted that had a HALF A PERCENTAGE MORE of a raise in it than Bush wanted? The difference was 3% and 3 1/2%, and Little Boots stamped his foot, threatened our economy would collapse, said he didn’t want to spoil the soldiers, etc, etc, etc? Remember?
I sure do.
June 10th, 2009 at 12:43 pmThat’s because [the VA] doesn’t spend 40% of it’s income on million dollar executive salaries, bonuses for bureaucrats who deny us care, advertising on TV and radio and bribing doctors and hospitals.
Bilbo, don’t forget profits. Must keep those stockholders happy!
And AIG was not an outlier when it comes to executive business junkets. Not even close.
PEACE
June 10th, 2009 at 12:44 pmCoburn is just one of many providing disinformation to the public. What is more important is the fact that insurance companies are throwing around a lot of money to Congress. It health care does not pass, it will be because of a handful of Dems who are taking campaign contributions from the insurance and health care industries. Sen. Durbin called out the banks on their influence and it would be helpful for some in Congress to call out the insurance industry.
The fact that the insurance company dictates medical care is not lost on most people. However, the Republicans are using scare tactics on the health care issue. It is incumbent for the Dems in Congress to go on a PR offensive to counter this disinformation and lies.
June 10th, 2009 at 12:44 pmYeah, the healthcare industry spending $7 billion per year in gifts to corrupt congress critters like this corrupt asshat Coburn, and $30 billion in advertising against healthcare reform.
That’s much better than using that money to actually make sure everyone has health care coverage. Keep trying to tell us that, you f-king asshats.
June 10th, 2009 at 12:45 pmTo add to Bilbo’s comment…
Most physicians need to hire at least one person and sometimes more just to handle collecting payment from insurance companies.
I won’t accept insurance in my business, even though I could charge double the amount for a one hour treatment. If someone wants their insurance to cover their treatment, I will provide a receipt along with all the billing numbers. They can pay me and hand in the receipt to their insurance company for reimbursement. I can’t afford to wait 6 to 9 months for payment. My landlord wants the rent paid each month.
June 10th, 2009 at 12:47 pmHELP SAVE AMERICA.
KILL THE GOP.
June 10th, 2009 at 12:51 pmJune 10th, 2009 at 12:52 pm
DNFP Says:
——————————————————————————–
HELP SAVE AMERICA.
KILL THE GOP.
Hijacked user – this is not the real dnfp – flag this idiot
June 10th, 2009 at 12:54 pmPeople look at your premiums, look at what your doctor gets, somebody is getting rich, it is the insurance company. And the customer is only allowed to change companies once a year. I want a plan that pays fairly but how do you find one before you are in for a year ?
June 10th, 2009 at 12:55 pmCoburn would prefer to have Americans deal with an insucance company actuary – or worse, a clerk – for their medical coverage. While that person standing in between the patient and doctor, while that clerk determines whether or not a procedure is warranted, the profit margin is the main concern.
Delay and Deny; but collect those ever-increasing premiums, raise those co-pays on the services that are not denied.
Coburn is a doctor and he knows the factual truth — he whored himself out to the insurance industry — people like him give doctors a bad name.
June 10th, 2009 at 12:56 pmIt seems to me that private health insurance is very much like a hedge fund that uses your health as risk which effects your returns and not theirs.
Might as well call it derivative health insurance
June 10th, 2009 at 12:57 pmThe Borgen Project has some good info on the cost of addressing global poverty.
$30 billion: Annual shortfall to end world hunger.
June 10th, 2009 at 12:58 pm$550 billion: U.S. Defense budget
I wonder how many of these senators who are trying to keep us from having a public option would opt out of the public coverage they are provided in the congress.
June 10th, 2009 at 12:58 pmSmoking Gun: Walter Reed scandal connected to Halliburton & FEMA? [VIDEO]
By Evan Derkacz
Posted on March 5, 2007, Printed on June 10, 2009
http://www.alternet.org/bloggers//48845/
Not only is the scandalous treatment of American Troops at Walter Reed military hospital connected to Halliburton and Katrina-era FEMA (see video right) but it’s also, at its core, a deeply, deeply conservative scandal.
“Privatization,” or the transfer of any and all services into the hands of market morality, is a fundamental part of the conservative project.
This time, under some shady circumstances, a private firm IAP was given the contract to take over a number of services at Walter Reed, despite the fact that the employees’ bid was lower.
http://www.alternet.org/blogs/video/48845/smoking_gun:_walter_reed_scandal_connected_to_halliburton_&_fema_%5Bvideo%5D/
June 10th, 2009 at 1:03 pmI remember back in the 80’s when my insurance payed for everything. Not even a $10 co-pay. Just your premium taken out of your paycheck every other week.
June 10th, 2009 at 1:04 pmEven with that, people I worked with were complaining about there health-care costs!?
I wonder what they think nowadays? Premiums are high, co-pays are decent, I have to call the phone # on the back of the card to ask permission(from a bureaucrat) before seeing a Doctor, they pay 80%-I pay 20%, unless it’s “out-of-network” and then I pay 40%.
This is private insurance, not public, so why are these politicians bragging about “the private sector” keeping costs down, when clearly this monopoly isn’t keeping costs down?
Could it be there “kickbacks” and “PAC Donations?”
Yes!
Everyone see Ed Schultz last night on MSNBC? He was on fire!
June 10th, 2009 at 1:04 pmI think it’s still on his website.
Many are against a healthcare plan, complain you will have restrictions on your care. Well, PPO or not you only have some doctors to choose from. And you have insurance clerks deciding on what care you can receive. Hospitals charge cash customers twice as much to make up for the discounts insurance companies demand. And we are the losers for healthcare.
June 10th, 2009 at 1:07 pmUnder universal healthcare, the drawbacks of VA healthcare would be eliminated. I live about 170 miles north of LA and about 170 miles south of San Jose. For many procedures, people with VA coverage now need to go to one of those two places. There are no VA facilities closer. Under universal healthcare, you could go to many, many local hospitals.
June 10th, 2009 at 1:07 pmI can’t even believe how this issue is being framed, even on NPR. The fact that a public option is still a debated option is disgusting. There’s not even a mention of single payer anymore. No matter how many letters and calls we send to the paid off senators, it’ll never add up to the amount they get from the private healthcare industry. It’s disgusting. The list of campaign contributors for all of the usual suspects in Congress is just disgusting. When will we demand systemic change to take money out of this? This country cannot have integrity until we do.
June 10th, 2009 at 1:08 pmWhat Coburn would have said if injected with a truth serum:
Coburn: I will continue to oppose and lie about health care, a public option, changing the health care system so that it is affordable and the best in the world because if I didn’t I wouldn’t get campaign money and under the table money from the health care industry or the pharmaceutical industry.
June 10th, 2009 at 1:09 pmanyone help me: what are the main websites to find out campaign and lobbyist contributions to politicians?
June 10th, 2009 at 1:09 pmBULLSHIT!!!!!
June 10th, 2009 at 1:10 pmI am now a disabled VETERAN and have been been treated at the VA for YEARS by the most professional and competent medical teams in the WORLD!! I have in the past been an employee with Blue Cross and Etna – BOTH were interested in mim service and max premiums and “controlled” my care via a desk clerk with a “care denial Bonus” plan . . . with the VA I get excellent care and the ability to have ANY clinic access my records from any clinic on line – it is world class care and no doubt as good as the programs our “legislators” use themselves. But then, the VA and Congressional plans were NOT written by pharma/big insurance lobbyists . . . .
The health insurance racket and that is what it is, needs a thorough housecleaning. Every politician taking money from an insurance company needs to be out of a job.
June 10th, 2009 at 1:11 pmThe reality is that democrats like Max Baucus better get their heads out of their a$$es, for if they pass a bill that goes against what the majority of Americans want, it will come back to haunt the democratic party in future elections.
June 10th, 2009 at 1:12 pmShorter Publican mantra:
We sort of support the troops, unless they need anything once they get back.
June 10th, 2009 at 1:12 pmBadger1 Says:
I remember back in the 80’s when my insurance payed for everything. Not even a $10 co-pay. Just your premium taken out of your paycheck every other week.
Even with that, people I worked with were complaining about there health-care costs!?
I wonder what they think nowadays? Premiums are high, co-pays are decent, I have to call the phone # on the back of the card to ask permission(from a bureaucrat) before seeing a Doctor, they pay 80%-I pay 20%, unless it’s “out-of-network” and then I pay 40%.
Don’t forget having to locate and deal with an “in network” doctor. This is choice?
June 10th, 2009 at 1:15 pmtexaslady Says:
The health insurance racket and that is what it is, needs a thorough housecleaning. Every politician taking money from an insurance company needs to be out of a job.
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I agree texaslady. But as long as there are lobbyists are in DC it won’t matter if we voted out every corrupt politician on the take, as more would come along to replace them.
Those who are proponents for a public option will find themselves going against a well funded opponent in the next election cycle.
June 10th, 2009 at 1:16 pmJess – Some VA hospitals are great but having had a wounded son and other family members using VA…hospitals vary. Walter Reed was privatized by bush and it went down the toilet. San Antonio rehab, privately funded is doing great. So, all depends where you live.
Medicare was great at the first until pharma got their greedy hands into it. I remember premiums for grandparents under $100. and they got terrific care.
June 10th, 2009 at 1:19 pmWe now know that the banks, Wall Street, the pharmaceutical companies, the health care industry, mega-corporations, the war industry and the oil/energy industry OWN our government.
No taxation without representation!
Why do we continue to support a government with our tax dollars when they no longer work for or represent us anymore???????????
June 10th, 2009 at 1:19 pmRUCeriousMaggot! Says:
Shorter Publican mantra:
We sort of support the troops, unless they need anything once they get back.
“““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““`
It’s the same for the unborn child.
Shorter Publican mantra part II:
We sort of care about the unborn child with our pro-life stance but once that child pops out of the womb and needs health care, education, we immediately turn our backs on them, their single mothers or struggling families.
June 10th, 2009 at 1:22 pmKind of makes one wonder if the GOP even knows WHY they are against health care? Or are they just reading verbatim from their talking points sheets from the RNC & lobbyists?
June 10th, 2009 at 1:24 pmJess Wonderin @#47 is right—private insurance workers get a bonus after they reach a certain level of claim denial!
June 10th, 2009 at 1:26 pmwe no longer care. stfu and get to work, or we’ll get to work replacing you.
June 10th, 2009 at 1:27 pmThe problem with lobbyists is that despite the rules, they and the politicians find ways around the rules. This may be off topic but the laws can be drafted to eliminate all money flowing from the lobbyists. Campaign contributions should be limited to X amount of dollars per candidate, political party on a local, state and national level and can only be contributed by persons who are qualified to vote. This means no PACs and union and corporate contributions. The laws should also prohibit, withoot exceptions, all gifts, services, etc., direct or indirect to Congress, their families and other entities in which the Congress person or government employee has an interest.
June 10th, 2009 at 1:33 pmTake away the healthcare system DC gets and see how fast the taxpayers get healthcare.
June 10th, 2009 at 1:34 pmTexaslady – I agree with the fact that some facilities have been choked by the “caring Republican budget cuts” but overall the VA delivers better care for the money invested . . . and Walter Reed is NOT a VA Hospital, it is a MILITARY FACILITY (you know, a monument to how we treat our returning Vets . . .) And the VA system deals with a greater number of patients with greater needs than found in a “civilian” care system – older, poorer health, substance abuse, mental issues and a higher concentration of major disabilities . . . and does it at a less cost per patient than any other program.
June 10th, 2009 at 1:35 pm“We have to protect our phoney baloney jobs here, gentlemen!” — Governor William J. Le Petomane in Blazing Saddles
___________________________________________________________
All the noise coming out against a public health plan seems to be coming from the following:
1. Private for-profit insurance companies who don’t want to compete with a public health plan because a public health plan can do what they do more efficiently at a lower cost. But they can’t actually say that, so they have to make up a bunch of false sh!t to scare people.
2. Politicians bought and paid for by private for-profit insurance companies. If they told the truth, their masters wouldn’t be happy. So they have to make up a bunch of scary sh!t, too.
3. Obama-haters who don’t know anything about the subject, but know that if Obama likes a public plan, they have to automatically hate it.
4. Assorted dittoheads and koolaid drinkers on the right who will repeat wingnut talking points, no matter how absurd they sound.
As a result of this noise, the truth is getting obscured by a lot of myths — and the mythmakers are counting on people believing their fiction to be the truth if they repeat it enough.
Myth #1: “Bureaucrats will be making your health decisions.” This one is only scary to the people who have forgotten that the private plan they have now already has a bureaucrat dictating what the doctor may or may not do and still be covered.
Myth #2: “You won’t have any choice.” This is completely false. Not only will a public plan allow for choosing one’s own doctor (and most likely give more choice than those who have to work within a “preferred network” from their provider now), but PEOPLE CAN CHOOSE TO KEEP THE PLAN THEY HAVE. That’s right — nobody is going to be forced to switch from what they have now to a public plan.
Myth #3: “It will cost a gazillion dollars.” Figures for the cost of a public plan have been varied — depending on who you listen to. Most of the opponents of a public plan like to quote figures that include all of what would be paid out in claims, as well as administration costs. These figures ignore what would be paid into the system by the insureds, and what would be paid to low-income people who are currently being subsidized by the government anyway. The government is already paying for health care for people who can’t pay for it themselves — the difference is that now they are paying expensive emergency room care instead of paying for regular checkups and preventative care (less expensive in the long run).
Myth #4: “This is SOCIALISM!” When all else fails, the right likes to use scary words. In the first place, a public health plan paid for by the people who use it is about as “socialist” as federal student loans. In the second place, there are many “socialist” aspects of our society, where everybody ponies up some money to pay for things for the common good. Education, defense, highways, public safety, national parks, etc. etc. etc. just to name a few. A purely capitalist system with no socialism whatsoever would turn us into a third-world plutocracy. Ah, but I digress.
Myth #5: “VA health care is lousy.” What makes this myth somewhat believeable is the conflation of the VA with military hospitals. People remember hearing about deplorable conditions at Walter Reed and this will kick in as soon as somebody suggests that “VA health care is horrendous”. Never mind that VA health care is pretty good when it’s funded properly, and Walter Reed isn’t a VA hospital.
Myth #6: “The government hasn’t proven itself responsible in any health care program that is run so far.” There are a lot of people in our country on Medicare who would disagree.
What I’d really like to hear from Coburn, Luntz, and the rest of that choir is an explanation as to why, if a public health plan is so incredibly awful, why fight it? Why not allow it to fail? The failure of such a plan would be a great boost to private industry, and everybody would be able to gloat and say, “I told you so!” But because Coburn is fighting so hard to keep a public plan from happening tells me he and the people who pay him are scared to death that it will succeed.
June 10th, 2009 at 1:40 pmI think the Republicans should put forth legislation to eliminate the VA and see what happens to them.
June 10th, 2009 at 1:43 pmAs one of his constituents and a veteran, I called and let them know I was upset with his smearing the VA health care system. They are not pleased they are getting calls on this, therefore I suggest everyone call his office:
202-224-5754
918-581-7651
Even if you aren’t a citizen of Oklahoma, let them know Health Care affects ALL AMERICANS and he can just stop enjoying the luxury of “socialized medicine” any time he wants. He is getting health care on YOUR dime!
June 10th, 2009 at 1:46 pmHaven’t read the other comments above, but I think it’s interesting that these conservative Republicans point to the VA, but they don’t mention Medicare…which by the way, is also a “government-run” health care program. The VA HAS had some problems in the past, some or many of which are due to outsourcing of resources, both medical and administrative. My sister has been on Medicare now for almost three years. Prior to that, she lost her coverage under another private provider, and was able to only get catastrophic coverage due to many pre-existing medical problems. She paid around $1200 month just for herself for several years, and she had to pay out-of-pocket for every doctor’s office appointment, lab and radiological tests, etc. etc. etc. She never “used” the catastrophic part of her policy for which she paid her premium. No heart attack, no diagnosis of cancer and so forth. Now that she’s on Medicare, she has very little out-of pocket expense other than her premiums for Medicare (deducted from Social Security check) and her gap insurance, and her co=-pay under Medicare Part D for drugs (except for the “donut hole” which she hits early due to her many medical problems). But she doesn’t have a bunch of claims to deal with or argue about payment for with a private insurance company. Medicare has been an extremely successful program, but the Right has been trying to sink that since it’s inception back in 1965. The same mantra of fear talk of “socialism” and so on. When it comes to our healthcare, so-called socialism is exactly what the doctor ordered. We need single-payer, and we need it now. A public option would be ok, if utilized as a temporary measure for transition. Otherwise, it may well wind up being a sinkhole with restrictions that won’t allow it to be competitive with private, for-profit insurance. I guarantee you that insurance companies and pharmaceutical companies would like to get rid of Medicaid and the VA, because they cut into their profits. These companies will sabotage any health care reform in this country, and should NOT be at the table.
June 10th, 2009 at 1:47 pmtexaslady Says:
Jess – Some VA hospitals are great but having had a wounded son and other family members using VA…hospitals vary. Walter Reed was privatized by bush and it went down the toilet.
Walter Reed wasn’t even in the VA system, it was an Army hospital.
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misscoleopteramolly Says:
Myth #2: “You won’t have any choice.”
This one really drives me nuts. I have insurance, but I’d have to find an in-network doctor to use it. None of them can schedule anything for less than three months out, unless it’s an emergency… in which case they tell me to go to an emergency room. If I do, am I covered? I don’t know. I’d have to find out after the fact when some bureaucrat approves or denies my claim. What I do know is that emergency care is inredibly expensive, so if that claim were denied, I’d be utterly fcuked. So basically I’m paying for something that I’m deathly afraid to try to use because of all the hurdles placed in my path. From what I can tell, I’m pretty much in the same boat being insured as I was when I was uninsured. And still they jack the rates up every year.
June 10th, 2009 at 1:51 pmJess – our diabetic veteran neighbor gets his insulin at about 1/4 of the cost that non vets pay for. So, the VA is allowed to get cost reduction but MEDICARE not. And we still have a way to go helping our new wounded in so many areas from getting the disability to getting mental help. It angers me remembering the words that bush said, “our military will have the best equiptment and care.” Iraqis had armoured humvees before our men and women. We have men and women with terrible wounds because of the bush administration.
June 10th, 2009 at 1:53 pmWell when Officers go to Walter Reed for care I consider it a VA hospital whether you do or not. Of course that was before bush privatized it.
June 10th, 2009 at 1:55 pmPerhaps we can all agree the VA hospitals have gotten much better since Korea and Vietnam. And they will continue to improve under the new leadership. Who better can understand than someone who lost both legs. These men and women from all wars stepped up when asked and deserve gold treatment.
June 10th, 2009 at 2:02 pmtexaslady – #68 – You can “consider it VA” but the administration and OPERATION is ARMY under the PENTAGON/Sec Army – a separate part of the government so it is not really how I “consider” it, it’s a fact – NOT VA.
That is the problem – most folks look at Walter Reed and condemn the “VA Care” as a substandard example of “government care” . . . when in FACT it is a reflection of how the BUSH Administration treated our returning wounded warriors.
June 10th, 2009 at 2:06 pmThe obsessions by progressives with the outrage du jour from conservatives is getting to be tiresome and counterproductive.
Can we, at least, focus more on progressive elected who are saying good things and saying them well? Just to mix it up a bit more?
We complain about the media focusing more on con’s than prog’s but we do the same ourselves!
Coburn is wanker who loves to outrage libs! Who cares!
June 10th, 2009 at 2:25 pmAlphaLiberal Says:
Coburn is wanker who loves to outrage libs! Who cares!
Why doesn’t someone ask this wanker if he’s so against government getting involved in health care, would he be willing to give up HIS tax payer funded health care.
These A-holes in Congress have some of the best taxpayer funded health care available to ANYONE.
June 10th, 2009 at 2:52 pmHYPOCRITES!
To add to the previous comment:
June 10th, 2009 at 2:54 pmIt’s ok for THEM to have it, but it’s not ok for US to have it.
I am from Oklahoma. Please forgive us for our TWO idiot senators.
Coburn is a practicing physician in Oklahoma. He managed to convince the Senate to allow him to go home on weekends to continue his medical practice. Guess who is paying for the majority of these little trips home? He is going home to meet with his constituents.
OF COURSE he has a vested interest in the health care plan!
June 10th, 2009 at 3:12 pmIf the care given in the VA (which is directed towards those with service related injuries) is inferior to other care in the USA, wouldn’t that be a national disgrace.
And as a governmental agency of National disgrace, shouldn’t a **Congressman** (like the kind from Oklahoma) do something to remedy the disgrace ?
June 10th, 2009 at 3:23 pmWhen Texas secedes….it needs to take Oklahoma with it!
June 10th, 2009 at 3:24 pmIt is just another example of these right wingers being completely removed from the reality of the situation.
I found this clip of Right Winger Ron Christie saying “what’s the rush” when it comes to reforming health care.
Easy to say coming from someone who probably has insurance.
http://progressnotcongress.org/?p=1701
June 10th, 2009 at 4:28 pmMedicare is socialized medicine and it works. Ask a senior citizen.
June 10th, 2009 at 5:41 pmThe VA works – the problem is the limited number of facilities around the nation.
If we had universal health care, run like Medicare (single payer) every citizen and every provider would be a part of the system.
This works in every other western, civilized country — when the profit is taken out of the system, and the health of the citizens is paramount, it works.
By all means listen to this idiot. He is the man that had attached to one bill, the one allowing guns in all parks. There is no end to the lunacy of the right wing.
June 10th, 2009 at 5:57 pmHey Dickweed couburn, tell that to my Dad. He is alive and well at 87 because of the VA. I would take that health care any day. Saved my Dad’s life twice and my Mother’s once.
June 10th, 2009 at 6:13 pmAlphaLiberal Says:
The obsessions by progressives with the outrage du jour from conservatives is getting to be tiresome and counterproductive.
That’s kind of what the TP blog is all about though. We can go lots of places for good news regarding political developments that we agree with.
June 10th, 2009 at 6:47 pmThanks for pointing out the difference between military hospitals and VA hospitals. In military hospitals, you could be bleeding from every orifice and they’d still suspect you were malingering.
I have received good care from the VA. The only problems I’ve seen can be explained by their being understaffed and underfunded.
Perhaps the senator has never had to worry about what would happen if he were uninsured and required medical care. Knowing that you’re covered in the case of catastrophe is priceless. Once you’ve been diagnosed with PTSD, it’s very hard to get private insurance, btw.
June 10th, 2009 at 7:50 pmHow’s this idea for reforming health care? Every citizen should contact his/her congresscritter and senator and DEMAND the same level of health care, at the same cost, as the members of Congress receive. Injured veterans should get the same level of care as Congress gets, at no cost, until their injuries are healed, or for the rest of their lives, if necessary.
Wny should those who are elected to serve us be treated better than us? People should go to every town meeting, congressional meet-and-greet, or anywhere else that their representatives go to meet their constituants, and badger them with this demand. Keep it up until something decent and useable gets passed. Whataya think? Is it a viable idea, or not?
June 10th, 2009 at 9:14 pmHuzzah! I agree—it’s time to pressure the Democrats, especially.
June 10th, 2009 at 10:03 pmI have been dealing with the Veterans Administration since 1972.
I have also used private medical insurance and private practitioners.
I will never deliberately go to a VA hospital or clinic again.
If you track back on the motif of “Greatest service anywhere.”
you will find either pay for ratings or persons who have been solely tied to right wing neocon agencies. Not one self respecting accreditation agency would ever certify any VA facility that I have dealt with.
Not one of these “VA is great” is a veteran or has submitted peer reviewed studies to a valid medical journal. You should have heard the gripes by the retirees when they had to start receiving medical care from the VA.
I have no use at all for Coburn, I think that he is an all around nit wit and I hate to agree with him on this one.
Simple test: Get someone to go to the new patient examination rooms in the Phoenix VA Hospital, built in 1998-2001. Is there one room that has a doctor’s hand wash station? None that I was in. This is a standard of care that was adopted worldwide in the 1880s.
Second real simple check: Send a form to any VA in the country asking: one, are you a veteran? two, what is your medical coverage, three where do you get YOUR medical care?
I had a doctor check my foot for more nerve loss from my diabetes and then reach up and roll down my eyelid to check for a cyst without even wearing gloves.
I’ve sat in the emergency department for 9 hours while two shifts changed and never saw a physician. Yeah, great care, you like it you go there.
Me, I just go to a private hospital, sign all of their papers and when it is fixed and they start talking money, I tell them to bill the Pentagon and walk out.
Oh, but someone says they are great. Well, in the 1990s, I had to have blood drawn. I was griping to the guy next to me that it I had taken two days off work to get tests done to get an antihistamine because I didn’t have medical insurance. The guy told me he had never had any problem getting service. That this was the longest he had even waited for a test. Then the charge nurse boiled out and started apologizing, “I’m so sorry, admiral. I promise you this won’t happen again, etc.”
Treat all newspaper, television, and political people at the VA. Hell, they got stoked about the VA in Washington DC, they should have been in the VA hospital in Roseburg OR when I worked there in the mid70s. I was called into a debate about when a patient died, in patient, in bed, on ward and they couldn’t come closer than 3 days. He was already rotting.
Hey, thanks America, just don’t say “thanks for your service” unless you have cadillac medical care.
1
June 10th, 2009 at 10:23 pmregulararmyfool Says:
Sorry, not accepting your anonymous personally claimed anecdotal evidence as a data point.
I could just as well make up stories about always having gotten stellar service at lots of VA’s to counter yours, but there’s really no point either way.
June 10th, 2009 at 10:56 pmI am currently in priority 3 status with the VA. About 2 weeks ago I had an appointment with the VA and I was treated with great respect and with professional care. I have been in the VA system for over 30 years and I feel it has changed for the better.
June 10th, 2009 at 11:04 pmI’ve had VA care since 1999. The care at the Portland facility in Oregon is good, and so is the care at my local clinic. I’ve heard that care does vary a lot from one state to the next.
I also heard that Phoenix had it’s state mental health care facility shut down by the feds, when I was living in Arizona—around ‘98. The conditions were described as “medieval”. That sort of thing is more likely to happen in a wild-west, libertarian climate, more often than in more liberal environments, is my guess.
June 11th, 2009 at 4:53 am