Dobson And Disgraced WH Staffer Pay Bush Tribute: He Was ‘The Instrument In God’s Hand’ That Kept Us Safe
Dobson And Disgraced WH Staffer Pay Bush Tribute: He Was ‘The Instrument In God’s Hand’ That Kept Us Safe
This week, James Dobson has been using his Focus on the Family Daily Broadcast to air his 1 1/2-hour interview with Tim Goeglein, a former special assistant to President Bush. The interview — billed as an “Insider’s View of the Bush Presidency” — has actually been a 1 1/2-hour love fest to the former president. Some highlights of Goeglien’s thoughts:
– “George W. Bush kept us safe. Providence kept us safe. But George Bush was the instrument in God’s hand as the leader of the free world.”
– “Of course, this was the great blessing of our first president, George Washington — the original George W. … The greatest trait of Washington was to see things as they were and not as he wanted to see them. That was George W. Bush’s gift when it came to this war. He immediately upon being told of the attacks knew that this was war and that we were being attacked existentially by radical Islam.”
– “I am actually very confident and hopeful, that in the years ahead with the benefit of time and space, that historians will look back at those remarkable and incredibly eventful eight years and say, ‘You know, he made the right decisions about the biggest things during those eight years.’“
Dobson also gave Obama a back-handed compliment, saying that unlike Bush, he can “read without sounding like he’s reading.” “That is a real skill,” added Dobson. “I mean, that’s something not very many people can do. In fact, I think President Obama is in the White House today because of that ability to read off a teleprompter.” Listen to excerpts here:
At the end of the interview, Dobson asks Goeglein whether he’s saying all these nice things about Bush simply because he gets “starstruck” by politicians. Goeglein assures him that all his observations and emotions are genuine.
Right Wing Watch also notes that Goeglein resigned from the White House in disgrace in 2008, after admitting that he had extensively plagiarized in the occasional guest columns he wrote for his hometown newspaper. While in the White House, Goeglein was “the eyes and ears of the White House in the world of religious conservatives and an emissary to that world for Mr. Rove and the president.”
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Right Wing Watch also notes that Goeglein resigned from the White House in disgrace in 2008, after admitting that he had extensively plagiarized in the occasional guest columns he wrote for his hometown newspaper.
Plagiarism hasn’t hurt Biden too much, so why should it hurt this guy.
June 11th, 2009 at 5:35 pmHe Was ‘The Instrument In God’s Hand’ That Kept Us Safe… ‘You know, he made the right decisions about the biggest things during those eight years.’“
– - About 7 1/2 years, actually. But why quibble, eh?
June 11th, 2009 at 5:36 pmJohnM, were you at the big circle jerk?
June 11th, 2009 at 5:37 pmWith instruments like that, who needs a device?
June 11th, 2009 at 5:37 pm– “George W. Bush kept us safe. Providence kept us safe. But George Bush was the instrument in God’s hand as the leader of the free world.”
Why did God send his instrument to Crawford, TX to clear brush for a whole month before 9/11?
June 11th, 2009 at 5:38 pmDOBSON: In fact, I think President Obama is in the White House today because of that ability to read off a teleprompter.
What Dobson really wanted to say: Obama is articulate and clean.
June 11th, 2009 at 5:39 pm“Yes sir… ol’ Dubya knew right away that the 9-11 attacks meant we were to enter a glorious war with radical Islam… truly, an instrument in God’s hands”.
Scary, scary people.
June 11th, 2009 at 5:39 pmJohnM builds the strawman, but we keep the matches.
June 11th, 2009 at 5:40 pmThat was George W. Bush’s gift when it came to this war.
Right, because the intelligence and the facts were never, ever fixed around the policy, Bush never shopped around for a “legal” opinion to justify torture, and those WMD were found in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad, and east, west, south and north somewhat.
And it is how it all came to pass thanks to the vision of the Great (mis)Leader.
June 11th, 2009 at 5:40 pmAnd, all this time I thought 9/11 happened on Bush’s watch. Shame on me.
June 11th, 2009 at 5:41 pmZooey Says:
——————————————————————————–
JohnM builds the strawman, but we keep the matches.
How is that a strawman? One man plagiarizes and he is disgraced. Another man plagiarizes and becomes VP?
June 11th, 2009 at 5:42 pmThey didn’t believe in reality before. Why should they start believing in reality now. Let them be and educate their zombies that know not what they say.
June 11th, 2009 at 5:42 pmWingnuts like JohnM amaze me. It doesn’t matter if it is a winger playing footsie in the stall at the MN airport, a male mounted another male in public, torture admissions or any other crime, they are defending the wingnut and they are going to throw stones at the democratic party. Amazingly childish. No wonder the GOP is dead.
June 11th, 2009 at 5:43 pmJohn, what are you doing? Don’t you know the FBI is watching those of you from the Free Republic terrorist cell? All of your Freeper friends are laying low.
June 11th, 2009 at 5:44 pmBehold blind racism. It can catch you if you’re not careful because it’s cousin to blind faith.
June 11th, 2009 at 5:44 pmOh, yuck, is Gawd masterbaiting with GWB?
June 11th, 2009 at 5:44 pmClearly God did not bless these two with brains.
June 11th, 2009 at 5:44 pmJohnM – lay all the barbs you have against the democratic party out in line for us. Tell us what you really think.
June 11th, 2009 at 5:46 pmI have said this numerous times. I definitely know that President Bush was used, as a vessel, by Jesus. During his tenure, we had peace, security, and employment. Now sin has entered the camp.
June 11th, 2009 at 5:47 pmAhhh, Darlyy chimes in with the usual nonsense.
June 11th, 2009 at 5:48 pmOOOHhhh, sin? I’m soooo thcared!
Darlyy, Crom laughs at your puny Gawd.
June 11th, 2009 at 5:48 pmkasinca Says:
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Wingnuts like JohnM amaze me. It doesn’t matter if it is a winger playing footsie in the stall at the MN airport, a male mounted another male in public, torture admissions or any other crime, they are defending the wingnut and they are going to throw stones at the democratic party. Amazingly childish. No wonder the GOP is dead.
Ahh, the hypocisy here amazes me once again. This man is horrible because he plagiarized and he is a republican. This man is our VP candidate and we don’t care that he plagiarized on a much larger scale because he is a democrat. Very funny indeed.
June 11th, 2009 at 5:50 pmJohnM Says:
Right Wing Watch also notes that Goeglein resigned from the White House in disgrace in 2008, after admitting that he had extensively plagiarized in the occasional guest columns he wrote for his hometown newspaper.
Plagiarism hasn’t hurt Biden too much, so why should it hurt this guy.
***
needs a question mark (?)
..
you must learn english
in order to make a coherent
argument.
..
good luck.
:)
June 11th, 2009 at 5:52 pmDOBSON: In fact, I think President Obama is in the White House today because of that ability to read off a teleprompter.
– - These are people who claim to love America yet clearly have no problem insulting the intelligence of the majority of Americans.
June 11th, 2009 at 5:53 pmJohnM Says:
kasinca Says:
——————————————————————————–
Wingnuts like JohnM amaze me. It doesn’t matter if it is a winger playing footsie in the stall at the MN airport, a male mounted another male in public, torture admissions or any other crime, they are defending the wingnut and they are going to throw stones at the democratic party. Amazingly childish. No wonder the GOP is dead.
Ahh, the hypocisy here amazes me once again. This man is horrible because he plagiarized and he is a republican. This man is our VP candidate and we don’t care that he plagiarized on a much larger scale because he is a democrat. Very funny indeed.
***
two wrong make a right.
very funny indeed.
:)
June 11th, 2009 at 5:54 pm——————————————————————————–
joe cantwell Says:
——————————————————————————–
JohnM Says:
Right Wing Watch also notes that Goeglein resigned from the White House in disgrace in 2008, after admitting that he had extensively plagiarized in the occasional guest columns he wrote for his hometown newspaper.
Plagiarism hasn’t hurt Biden too much, so why should it hurt this guy.
***
needs a question mark (?)
..
you must learn english
in order to make a coherent
argument.
..
good luck.
Shouldn’t the word you begin with a capital (Y) because it is at the start of the sentence? So once you learn how to form your sentences properly I will do the same.
June 11th, 2009 at 5:54 pmHe kept us safe from Jan 20th 2001 to Sep 10th 2001, and I appreciate that.
Idiots
RIP
June 11th, 2009 at 5:55 pmSGT Stephen R. Sherman
C CO 1-5 IN (STRYKER)
KIA 3 Feb 2005
Mosul, Iraq
As I recall Biden’s plaegerism consisted of a couple of incidents, and this tool ‘extensively’ was doing it.
Of course JuanitaM can’t differentiate between a couple and extensive.
June 11th, 2009 at 5:57 pmDobson and Goeglein are both so full of crap, it’s not worth my time to dissect what they’re saying.
But it’s been a slow day, so I’ll make a couple of comments.
Why treat Dubya like he’s unique in the area of keeping us “safe” from foreign attacks (especially since the biggest one happened on his watch)? As near as I can recall, we didn’t have any large-scale terrorist attacks on our soil during the administration of Jimmy Carter. Or Dwight Eisenhower. Or Calvin Coolidge. Or Benjamin Harrison. Or…
And what IS it with these guys and their obsession with President Obama’s use of teleprompters? Yes, it’s true that Obama can read off a teleprompter very well — probably better than Dubya, because his command of the English language is better. But it’s not true that got him elected.
I believe the criticism of the teleprompter is a veiled accusation that Obama’s words aren’t his own — but of course his critics can’t say that, because Obama writes his own stuff and everybody knows it (although he does use speechwriters for polishing sometimes). Furthermore, if Obama was so dependent on other people putting words in his mouth, he’d be as inept in an interview setting as Sarah Palin, and that would have been obvious to the voters pretty quickly.
All politicians use teleprompters when making speeches, and have been doing so since they were invented. With the exception of Gov. David Paterson of New York.
But I have to remember that Dobson and Goeglein are merely preaching to the choir — a choir desperate to hear warm fuzzy things about their hero, no matter how old, stale, and inaccurate the talking points are.
June 11th, 2009 at 5:58 pmSorry to be off topic here, but I couldn’t fail to note this:
The New York Times quoted Sen. Jeff Sessions’ criticism of the timing of Judge Sonia Sotomayor’s confirmation hearing, (they say they need time to review her 3600 cases) but did not note that, according to the Times itself, Sessions called for fast action on Justice Samuel Alito’s confirmation process, saying, “We don’t need to read everything he has written.”
June 11th, 2009 at 5:58 pmWHOA!
PULL OVER!
GRAMMAR POLICE!
hahahaha
(doesn’t everyone love a good grammar joke?)
June 11th, 2009 at 5:59 pmOn political matters, Dobson “will continue to speak out as he always has – a private citizen and not a representative of the organization he founded,” said Gary Schneeberger, a Focus on the Family spokesman
June 11th, 2009 at 5:59 pm…
johnm,
i know you think i’m picking on you.
i’m not.
i just want you to spread your wings
and learn to fly.
…
good luck.
:|
June 11th, 2009 at 6:01 pmRUCeriousMaggot! Says:
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As I recall Biden’s plaegerism consisted of a couple of incidents, and this tool ‘extensively’ was doing it.
Of course JuanitaM can’t differentiate between a couple and extensive.
Biden’s two were in school and on the campaign trail. Dobson’s was for a little newspaper. Of course you can’t differentiate between cheating in school and using other people’s words as your own to get votes and writing a guest column for a hometown paper. You are right Biden’s is much much worse.
June 11th, 2009 at 6:02 pmThe Biden plagiarism was 22yrs ago and it ended his presidential campaign.
Do you think he should have suffered more, JohnM?
June 11th, 2009 at 6:02 pmAnd what IS it with these guys and their obsession with President Obama’s use of teleprompters? Yes, it’s true that Obama can read off a teleprompter very well — probably better than Dubya, because his command of the English language is better
Dubya on teleprompters:
“how am i supposed to read this… the words keep movin, what kind of book is this?”
June 11th, 2009 at 6:02 pmShorter Sessions: Speed Up! Slow Down! Read! Dont Read!
June 11th, 2009 at 6:03 pmJohnM Says:
RUCeriousMaggot! Says:
——————————————————————————–
As I recall Biden’s plaegerism consisted of a couple of incidents, and this tool ‘extensively’ was doing it.
Of course JuanitaM can’t differentiate between a couple and extensive.
Biden’s two were in school and on the campaign trail. Dobson’s was for a little newspaper. Of course you can’t differentiate between cheating in school and using other people’s words as your own to get votes and writing a guest column for a hometown paper. You are right[,] Biden’s is much much worse.
…
see? you can lose an argument
graciously. congratulations,
you’re improving.
:)
June 11th, 2009 at 6:06 pmspring heeled jack Says:
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The Biden plagiarism was 22yrs ago and it ended his presidential campaign.
Do you think he should have suffered more, JohnM?
So there is a time limit? Give me a break. There cannot be a double standard. This guy was just giving a speech and Biden is the VP, but Dobson is called disgraced WH staffer, but I have never seen this site say Biden was a disgraced senator during his VP campaign. Your hypocrisy knows no bounds.
June 11th, 2009 at 6:06 pmPlagarism is nothing to a party of wingnuts that will lie a nation into a war that is completely unnecessary.
June 11th, 2009 at 6:06 pm“The instrument in God’s hand” — that’s like a tool, right?
June 11th, 2009 at 6:07 pm@30 RUCeriousMaggot! Says:
Of course JuanitaM can’t differentiate between a couple and extensive.
Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding!
June 11th, 2009 at 6:08 pmYou really dont want to go the teleprompter route do you Lou..oh, you do?
June 11th, 2009 at 6:09 pmrepublicans hate facts Says:
JohnM Says:
Right Wing Watch also notes that Goeglein resigned from the White House in disgrace in 2008, after admitting that he had extensively plagiarized in the occasional guest columns he wrote for his hometown newspaper.
Plagiarism hasn’t hurt Biden too much, so why should it hurt this guy.
That would be FUNNY if you didn’t PLAGIARIZE SO OFTEN! ;)
***
johnm,
pay him no mind.
you work on improving yourself.
..
good luck.
:)
June 11th, 2009 at 6:09 pmSo everytime a Republican is caught plagiarizing it has to be mentioned that the current VP forgot to credit Kinnock in a few speeches in 1987 and is a disgraceful human being?
June 11th, 2009 at 6:09 pmYeah, Bush,Cheney and Rumsfeld sure kept us safe… After that August National Security Warning, these three criminals just sat there and smirked… didn’t raise even a little pinkie finger to “make us safe.” Instead, Cheney rolled out the proverbial red carpet on nine-nine and nine-ten. Heck of a job, Dick…
June 11th, 2009 at 6:11 pmrepublicans hate facts Says:
joe cantwell Says:
johnm,
pay him no mind.
you work on improving yourself.
..
good luck.
:)
You first!
Good luck!
:)
…
rhf,
give him a chance.
he is getting better at
sentence structure.
:|
June 11th, 2009 at 6:11 pmYet Dobson just jumped briskly out there and put one forward
June 11th, 2009 at 6:12 pm@48 spring heeled jack Says:
So everytime a Republican is caught plagiarizing it has to be mentioned that the current VP forgot to credit Kinnock in a few speeches in 198
Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding!
June 11th, 2009 at 6:13 pmrepublicans hate facts Says:
Where’s YOURS? You PLAGIARIZE ALL OF THE TIME? Criticizing Biden for doing it just SHOWS THE WORLD what a F*KKKING HYPOCRITE you are.
Please provide an example. It is really getting old owning you everyday.
June 11th, 2009 at 6:16 pmI’m convinced that Dobson is still pissed that he is not on speed dial in the White House anymore. Bush called the man all the time. Dobson lost his national prayer seat.
June 11th, 2009 at 6:17 pmPerhaps the “we” that Mr. Dobson is referring to are religious conservatives (and/or their non-profit status).
June 11th, 2009 at 6:17 pmApe-Man Says:
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@48 spring heeled jack Says:
So everytime a Republican is caught plagiarizing it has to be mentioned that the current VP forgot to credit Kinnock in a few speeches in 198
Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding!
Don’t forget his incident in school, where again he just forgot to cite properly. Keep those blinders on.
June 11th, 2009 at 6:18 pmHe immediately upon being told of the attacks knew that this was war and that we were being attacked existentially by radical Islam.”
Can someone tell me how is this fanatical religious/political cocktail any different from the Taliban reign?
June 11th, 2009 at 6:19 pmChristian radical extremists and Islamic radical extremists carve the same distructive path.
@59 liberalinaredstate Says:
Bush called the man all the time. Dobson lost his national prayer seat.
Wow. Ooga Booga Inga Binga – i’m sure glad that’s not going on anymore!
June 11th, 2009 at 6:20 pmGuido the Benevolent Torturer Says:
If Bush was used by Jesus then Jesus failed. Bush is a torturer and war criminal.
June 11th, 2009 at 5:53 pm Add Karma Recommend (0) | Report Abuse
No, your President is failing because he is not in the will of God.
June 11th, 2009 at 6:22 pmSo I gather “god’s instrument” had a breakdown during Katrina.
June 11th, 2009 at 6:22 pmJohnM Says:
So there is a time limit? Give me a break. There cannot be a double standard. This guy was just giving a speech and Biden is the VP, but Dobson is called disgraced WH staffer, but I have never seen this site say Biden was a disgraced senator during his VP campaign. Your hypocrisy knows no bounds.
This might have a teeny more weight if you could get the plagiarist’s name right. That’s twice you’ve called him Dobson, tinkerbell.
Mr GOEGLEIN was supposed to be a liaison to Christian groups.
I’d say that 50% of your output was a little more serious than two incidents.
June 11th, 2009 at 6:23 pm9/11 itself proved how bush and his crew kept America safe..
June 11th, 2009 at 6:24 pmJesus…
Can we can the plagiarism discussion? It’s merely an attempt by a troll to hijack the thread. As far as I see, everybody accused of plagiarism in this discussion has paid for it.
1. Plagiarism incident #1 — Joe Biden, in his first year of law school, failed to cite a source properly in a paper he wrote. He attributed the error to not understanding how to cite sources properly. Penalty — Biden was given an F for the course, and had to take it over.
2. Plagiarism incident #2 — Joe Biden, when running for President in 1987, included remarks originally made by Neil Kinnock in his stump speech. Most of the time, he gave Neil Kinnock appropriate credit — as evidenced by notes reporters made during his speeches. However, when giving the speech at a rally in Iowa, Biden neglected to give Kinnock credit during the speech. A video of this was used by his opponents to cry plagiarism. Penalty — Biden was forced out of the race pretty early.
3. Plagiarism incident #3 — Tim Goeglein, in columns for his hometown (Ft. Wayne) newspaper, used material from the Dartmouth Review and other sources without attribution. In fact, out of 39 columns, 19 were shown to contain unattributed material written by others. Penalty — Tim Goeglein was forced to resign his White House position.
Everybody seems to have paid for their sins. Can we get back to the topic at hand, now?
June 11th, 2009 at 6:25 pm@62 krystalview Says:
Christian radical extremists and Islamic radical extremists carve the same distructive path.
remember the Star trek with the two guys with halk white, half black faces? identical yet at odds…
June 11th, 2009 at 6:25 pm@76 realpatriot Says:
Why do they harp on that when they also know busch slept through the warnings and the attacks, and then read books while it happened? Can you match that M?
June 11th, 2009 at 6:27 pmThis just in… More prisoners are being moved. Oooga Booga, Inga Binga, Bunga. Dobson must have displeased his deity or something.
June 11th, 2009 at 6:33 pmApe-man says:
remember the Star trek with the two guys with halk white, half black faces? identical yet at odds…
I remember it vaguely. What was the outcome? Did they destroy each other? Because that would be a blessing for Humanity. If we could just have extremists battle it out among themselves instead of cowardly using innocent proxies to die for their madness!
June 11th, 2009 at 6:37 pmmisscoleopteramolly Says:
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Can we can the plagiarism discussion? It’s merely an attempt by a troll to hijack the thread. As far as I see, everybody accused of plagiarism in this discussion has paid for it.
1. Plagiarism incident #1 — Joe Biden, in his first year of law school, failed to cite a source properly in a paper he wrote. He attributed the error to not understanding how to cite sources properly. Penalty — Biden was given an F for the course, and had to take it over.
2. Plagiarism incident #2 — Joe Biden, when running for President in 1987, included remarks originally made by Neil Kinnock in his stump speech. Most of the time, he gave Neil Kinnock appropriate credit — as evidenced by notes reporters made during his speeches. However, when giving the speech at a rally in Iowa, Biden neglected to give Kinnock credit during the speech. A video of this was used by his opponents to cry plagiarism. Penalty — Biden was forced out of the race pretty early.
3. Plagiarism incident #3 — Tim Goeglein, in columns for his hometown (Ft. Wayne) newspaper, used material from the Dartmouth Review and other sources without attribution. In fact, out of 39 columns, 19 were shown to contain unattributed material written by others. Penalty — Tim Goeglein was forced to resign his White House position.
Everybody seems to have paid for their sins. Can we get back to the topic at hand, now?
Yet Goeglien is considered disgraced and Biden is our honorable VP.
June 11th, 2009 at 6:38 pmMy understanding is that once, and only once, during his campaign for president, Biden forgot to credit Kinnock for his words. All the other times he used Kinnock’s words he properly credited him. But one time he forgot, and it was caught on video tape. His opponents made more out of it than should have been made.
June 11th, 2009 at 6:39 pmThree phases of the 21st century decline and fall of the depraved Republican Party:
1. Goosestepping right along with the Bush gangster regime and all their criminality. Supporting Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld’s torture, treason and tyranny from Jan. 2001 to Jan. 2009.
2. After falling out of power in the November 2008 Elections, the Republicans become the Party of No and the Goofy Obstructionist Party.
3. Six months after losing their dictatorial powers of the Bush White House, right-wing extremist Republicans start a campaign of domestic terrorism by murdering a doctor and a policeman.
GOP, 1854 – 2009. R. I. P.
June 11th, 2009 at 6:41 pm@74 Wayne Ant Schneider Says:
That’s the reasonable conclusion M.
June 11th, 2009 at 6:42 pmInstrument, heh, he said instrument
[cue Bevis and Butthead laugh]
June 11th, 2009 at 6:42 pmYet Goeglien is considered disgraced and Biden is our honorable VP.
i think it has to do with the fact that incident #3 is really 19 separate incidents
and almost half of all the columns he published had something plagiarized in them
each of biden’s incidents were really just one incident.
which is more disgraceful, making a mistake twice (and not being paid by someone at the time)
or making a mistake 19 times while you’re being paid to have journalistic integrity?
i think plagiarizing in 19 different columns is indeed much more disgraceful.
June 11th, 2009 at 6:43 pmIt’s a matter of scale and proportion M. The big picture.
June 11th, 2009 at 6:46 pmThe real point is how hype-motized these people sound and how all those hype-motized followers will respond to it. They will of coarse get a huge rush out of these encouraging words, and they’ll therefor stay in their comfort zone rather than dealing with the reality that their crusading king george was a catastrophe.
June 11th, 2009 at 6:50 pmGag!! I’m gonna puke.
June 11th, 2009 at 6:53 pmHe Was ‘The Instrument In God’s Hand’ That Kept Us Safe’
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA….gasp…HAHAHAHAHAHAHA…(big Breath)…HAHAHAHAHA!!
Kept who safe, considering all the destruction he caused, no he didn’t.
In fact he was warned about 9/11 SIX TIMES and let it happen anyway.
PS..the magical invisible fairy in the sky does not exist, it is a tale made up by ancient goat herders.
June 11th, 2009 at 6:54 pmJohnM, you would deny Christ four times to one-up Peter.
June 11th, 2009 at 6:59 pmWhen I hear religious leaders talking about politics I think about Fra Savonarola.
June 11th, 2009 at 7:00 pmWayne Ant Schneider Says:
——————————————————————————–
My understanding is that once, and only once, during his campaign for president, Biden forgot to credit Kinnock for his words. All the other times he used Kinnock’s words he properly credited him. But one time he forgot, and it was caught on video tape. His opponents made more out of it than should have been made.
That may be a reasonable respnose, but the time in question Biden used the exact same speech in the first person talking about himself being the first one to go to college in his family just like Kinnock did, he even pointed to his wife like Kinnock did. He may have referenced him before in speeches, but it would be pretty hard to cite that one since he was clearly making it his own, or at least passing it off as his own.
June 11th, 2009 at 7:01 pmspring heeled jack Says:
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JohnM, you would deny Christ four times to one-up Peter.
So are you comparing Biden to Christ here?
June 11th, 2009 at 7:02 pmGiving Dobson his due, I will admit that Dubya was, and is, a total tool.
The fact is, after Reed was forced out of the position, Dobson was the cut-out man between cynical Republicans who would be glad to collect evangelical votes for pretending to be evangelical, and the evangelicals who somehow decided that creating a Christian version of the Iranian government would be a great idea. That is, he played both sides into an unholy alliance where the schemers made use of the psychos. As little respect as I have for the Christian Taliban, I have even less for those who would treat them as nothing more than a free batch of votes to be discarded as soon as each election was over.
.
JohnM Says:
So there is a time limit? Give me a break. There cannot be a double standard. This guy was just giving a speech and Biden is the VP
Yet Goeglien is considered disgraced and Biden is our honorable VP.
That’s right, Biden’s the VP. Why don’t you bawl a little louder so your mommy will come pick you up and change your fcuking diaper, baby wingnut? Go on, cry for me.
STOP GOING OFF TOPIC.
Here is the thing you’re talking about. Anybody interested in it can go there and find out what you’re blathering about.
This post is about Dobson’s hyperbole regarding Bush.
June 11th, 2009 at 7:04 pm——————————————————————————–
calavzma Says:
——————————————————————————–
Yet Goeglien is considered disgraced and Biden is our honorable VP.
i think it has to do with the fact that incident #3 is really 19 separate incidents
and almost half of all the columns he published had something plagiarized in them
each of biden’s incidents were really just one incident.
which is more disgraceful, making a mistake twice (and not being paid by someone at the time)
or making a mistake 19 times while you’re being paid to have journalistic integrity?
i think plagiarizing in 19 different columns is indeed much more disgraceful.
Trying to cheat to get a degree? Trying to pass other’s stories as your own to get votes for the highest office in the country? Using another’s words for a small town newspaper? Clearly the first two are much more disgraceful.
June 11th, 2009 at 7:05 pmTrying to pass other’s stories as your own to get votes for the highest office in the country? Using another’s words for a small town newspaper?
JohnM thinks the punishment should fit the crime. Both were substantially punished, and now we move on…
Unless John would rather have a lb. of Biden flesh.
June 11th, 2009 at 7:08 pmThink of these people as christian supremacists. how’s that? not radical but they’re on millions of TVs and that is kinda radical isn’t it?
June 11th, 2009 at 7:08 pm“Of course, this was the great blessing of our first president, George Washington — the original George W….The greatest trait of Washington was to see things as they were and not as he wanted to see them. That was George W. Bush’s gift when it came to this war. He immediately upon being told of the attacks knew that this was war and that we were being attacked existentially by radical Islam.”
************************************************************
BULLS**T. As in 100% pure, Grade-A bovine excrement.
Anyone with two functioning brain cells to rub together who was even remotely paying attention over the last eight years could see that Dubya refused to accept anything which didn’t coincide with his vision of how things were or ought to be. This is one of the primary reasons why the War In Iraq failed to be as successful as the administration assured us it would be — because just for starters, Bush chose to ignore or dismiss the recommendations of seasoned military advisers and didn’t put enough troops on the ground at the outset to accomplish this. It was blatantly apparent throughout Dubya’s two terms in office that he had no tolerance for being thwarted, that he interpreted disagreement as disloyalty, and that anyone who dared to question or challenge him (never mind criticize him) would be marginalized at the very least if not fired outright.
These are not the responses of a person who sees and accepts the facts as they truly are, regardless of whether he likes it that way or not — these are the actions of a spoiled, petulant, narcissistic, and profoundly insecure child who doggedly refuses to accept the fact that life often doesn’t work out the way we expect it to or want it to. If Bush had been able to see things as they really were instead of the way in which he wanted them to be or thought they should be, I myself very much doubt that he or his representatives would have needed to start sentence quite so often with the phrase “nobody could possibly have foreseen…”. A man with the ability to see things as they truly are and not the way he wants them to be has the capacity to adapt himself to circumstances instead of doing what Dubya habitually did, which was expecting that the circumstances would magically adapt themselves to suit him.
June 11th, 2009 at 7:08 pm“George W. Bush kept us safe. Providence kept us safe. But George Bush was the instrument in God’s hand as the leader of the free world.”
So God wanted Bush to ignore Katrina, and go fundraising instead? God must really hate black people.
June 11th, 2009 at 7:09 pmM this deluded recollection of recent history by Dobson is next to fraudulent. Please stay on topic.
June 11th, 2009 at 7:09 pmOFnF.
June 11th, 2009 at 7:10 pmDobson and his friend are clearly playing to a sorry audience. It is pathetic but the viewers will have to curb their own delusions.
June 11th, 2009 at 7:12 pmYeah, John. I think Biden’s Jesus Christ. You are Obtuse and Obstinate to the nth degree.
June 11th, 2009 at 7:13 pmSeems to me that it was the “great communicator” Ronny Raygun that owes his stay in the White House by being an excellent teleprompter reader. Who says B-movie roles don’t pay? Why you can end up being a governor and a president even if you’re a washed up brain-dead actor (…or moron oil business failure).
So what it the world does reading from a teleprompter have to do with anything? Just more hysterical screech from the right wing monkey house.
June 11th, 2009 at 7:13 pmAfter being informed that the U.S. was under attack, he continued to read “My Pet Goat”. He says he did that in order not to upset the children, yet the only reason the children would be targets is because he was there.
June 11th, 2009 at 7:17 pmBluestocking Says:
“Of course, this was the great blessing of our first president, George Washington — the original George W….The greatest trait of Washington was to see things as they were and not as he wanted to see them. That was George W. Bush’s gift when it came to this war.
Dubya may have gotten many “gifts” from God, but seeing anything “clearly” ain’t one of them.
The gifts given to him consist entirely of:
June 11th, 2009 at 7:18 pm1. Being born a Bush
2. Five failed energy companies, each funded by the Saudis
3. Partial ownership of the Texas Rangers baseball team
4. The Governorship of Texas
5. The Presidency of the United States of America
6. Staying out of prison so far
Couple of things here – it doesn’t take a genius (or even a W) to know that when you are attacked a state of war exists. And it wasn’t extistentialists that knocked down those towers.
And, just like G. Gordon Liddy, the Reich is trotting out not only a criminal, but a really incompetent one at that. Dobson is attempting to bring the whole party down to his level, not realizing it’s already there.
June 11th, 2009 at 7:21 pmrepublicans hate facts Says:
joe cantwell Says:
rhf,
give him a chance.
he is getting better at
sentence structure.
:|
Those posts are usually PLAGIARIZED… I checked… ;)
***
johnm,
is this true?!
:|
June 11th, 2009 at 7:25 pmwiley Says:
After being informed that the U.S. was under attack, he continued to read “My Pet Goat”. He says he did that in order not to upset the children…
No, he did it because he had no clue whatsoever what else to do. Go back to the tape and look at his face. That is the deer-in-headlights face of a man who is pooping in his boxers out of terror.
June 11th, 2009 at 7:31 pmObama can speak well — Bush could not — so attack Obama.
(They never note the 5 minute complex answers to complicated questions that are off-the cuff.)
Obama is popular — Bush is not — so attack Obama.
(Compare him to Hitler, or to the Messiah, because Bush was the most unpopular president in recent history.)
Obama is an advocate for the people — Bush was an advocate for the wealthy (his base, as he called them) — so attack Obama. (Bush rewarded wealthy friends from his first months in the White House; spoke of his friends who “have and “have more;” was so out of touch that when a single mom related her story of having to work three jobs, he thought that was a GOOD thing!)
The rightwingers are just monotonously repetitive in their lame attacks on Obama — on the occasion that they vary from that, they simply lie outright!
June 11th, 2009 at 7:34 pmObama has penned two best sellers: so the repugs go back decades and cite that Biden was found to have plagiarized in college.
June 11th, 2009 at 7:42 pmIt’s very easy to miss crediting a citation. I don’t think repugs ever had to write reports in college — my professor was a real stickler for plagiarism and more student time was spent on the footnotes than on the project itself.
Yep. All that God stuff is a big reason why Chimpy was the…
Worst!
President!!
Ever!!!
People who think they are chosen by God really tend to make horrible decisions. I suspect it has to do with the fact that one needs to be batscat crazy to believe it.
June 11th, 2009 at 7:49 pmCrap ! I just puked all over my laptop !
June 11th, 2009 at 7:51 pmThat may be a reasonable respnose, but the time in question Biden used the exact same speech in the first person talking about himself being the first one to go to college in his family just like Kinnock did, he even pointed to his wife like Kinnock did. He may have referenced him before in speeches, but it would be pretty hard to cite that one since he was clearly making it his own, or at least passing it off as his own.
john mccain did the same thing with one of his prison camp stories about the vietnamese dude making a cross… that story was published by someone else and mccain just jacked it.
Trying to cheat to get a degree?
he said he didn’t know how to properly cite the source, this is understandable in college… it happens
he failed the class, took it again, and passed it.
i don’t see what the problem is… tons of kids have problems with citations at the college level
June 11th, 2009 at 7:54 pm:\
Then who was that guy in the White House on 9/11?
June 11th, 2009 at 8:01 pmOr if you want to get technical, who was that guy in the elementary school reading kids books on 9/11 that “claimed” to be the President?
:\
Its all so confusing.
June 11th, 2009 at 8:05 pmJohnM Says:
Plagiarism hasn’t hurt Biden too much, so why should it hurt this guy.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
My GOD you are stupid. Are you still on about that? Biden cited who said it a dozen times then forgot to credit it. You really are a brainwashed moron you do know that dont you?”
June 11th, 2009 at 8:11 pmI think that was a porn movie, Darryl.
June 11th, 2009 at 8:11 pmlooktothehills Says:
And I have said THIS numerous times. YOU are a moron. Must be true. After all I have said it numerous times
June 11th, 2009 at 8:12 pmlooktothehills Says:
You dont know the will of God. You are just a brainwashed moron who is TOLD what to think by rightwing screechmonkeys. The fact you are particularly stupid doesnt qualify you to speak for God.
June 11th, 2009 at 8:15 pm______
Zooey Says:
What Dobson really wanted to say: Obama is articulate and clean.
______
So you think he shares Biden’s view on that? ;)
*
The instrument of God comment is silly.
June 11th, 2009 at 8:22 pmWe all knew that Rove was the Power Behind The Throne.
June 11th, 2009 at 8:23 pm– “George W. Bush kept us safe. Providence kept us safe. But George Bush was the instrument in God’s hand as the leader of the free world.”
}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
Let me get this straight;
1.) The United States attacks a sovereign country without provocation.
2.) In the process of waging this war the country is destroyed
and looted.
3.) The war machinery in our country makes handsome profits.
Tim Goeglein and James Dobson are suggesting that the Iraq war was divinely inspired. This war reminds me of the conduct of a pagan country, a country who worships a pagan war god.
Don’t see any divine inspiration here!
June 11th, 2009 at 8:25 pmAn instrument to deliver many to God’s hands maybe.
June 11th, 2009 at 8:29 pmIf God chose Chimpy as His instrument? He’s nuts or evil.
June 11th, 2009 at 8:31 pmAmericasBack Says:
(..and I believe in treating all equally – this goes for all stupid religious beliefs)
Hey, don’t be dissin’ the FSM, yo!
June 11th, 2009 at 8:49 pmupright left Says:
I think Biden has shown that he can put his foot in his mouth with the best of them and that when he isnt careful lapses into that kind of unconcious racism of the past. Not that he is REALLY racist but seems to lapse into those racist preconceptions that really are fairly telling. For as smart as Biden is he can say the DUMBEST things imaginable
June 11th, 2009 at 9:07 pmWe should give the wingnuts partial credit here. While a sane mortal would not presume to know the will of God, perhaps in this case they are correct in saying Bush was a tool in God’s hand.
The question is what did God intend in how he chose to wield this tool? God must have been behind all of the failures of the Bush administration and the Republican Party. God must have wanted the Republicans to be totally disgraced and removed from power for generation.
It’s very difficult to second-guess God, because we mortals cannot see the big picture. To presume otherwise is to play the part of a fool.
June 11th, 2009 at 9:11 pmWe should give the wingnuts partial credit here. While a sane mortal would not presume to know the will of God, perhaps in this case they are correct in saying Bush was a tool in God’s hand.
The question is what did God intend in how he chose to wield this tool?…It’s very difficult to second-guess God, because we mortals cannot see the big picture. To presume otherwise is to play the part of a fool. — Levi the Dung Beetle
**************************************************
Indeed. As I once stated on a message thread on some other site several years back with regard to Dubya’s belief that God wanted him to be President, there are times when God elects not to step in and save us from the consequences of our own folly or stubbornness. He (She-It-They-whatever) sometimes uses other people as tests, object lessons, and wake-up calls rather than blessings per se. Such people are often brought into our lives as tools for our growth and overall benefit, yes — provided that we have the wisdom to perceive that the blessing in such cases (instead of simply being handed to us) is something which can only be attained through hard work, self-examination, and making an effort to amend the error of our ways. And contrary to what some of the evangelicals might like to think, the errors in question are not necessarily always the ones for which they commonly point fingers at other people!
June 11th, 2009 at 10:00 pmTranslation: Bush was a tool of the Religious Right.
June 11th, 2009 at 10:10 pmJohnM, looktothehills, I’m glad you’re both here! Since you have proclaimed yourself pro-life so courageously and with such conviction, I need you to sign this petition asking for the public option when it comes to health care. There are millions without health care and who knows how many die from it?
June 11th, 2009 at 10:14 pmWOW!
I am speechless.
WOW!
The dumbest, most disastrous, most incompetent exercise of the presidency, which killed 4,000+ Americans, killed hundreds of thousands of Iraqis, committed war crimes, destroyed 2 countries and left America almost bankrupt… just WOW!
Sounds to me like A CURSE from God.
June 11th, 2009 at 10:17 pmWhich he used to smite the rest of us on our heads with.
P.S. thanks God for waking us up…
(In reality God isn’t so cruel—people are)
:|
June 11th, 2009 at 10:46 pmupright left Says:
The instrument of God comment is silly.
June 11th, 2009 at 8:22 pm
The instrument of “god” is non-existent.
Don’t you have a torture device (aka cross) to polish?
June 11th, 2009 at 10:52 pmSomeone once said, “the best argument against Christianity are the Christians.” Indeed we see this daily. What have we here? We have a disgraced former White House employee, disgraced and working for the right administration. And a man who calls him self a minister of god. To be a Christian and a Republican you must have many pathologies to exist with and live by. They must explain to you, your many beliefs. They need not be rational, nor necessarily humane.
To get aboard the re-write Bush train is to leave whatever passes for truth somewhere on the platform as the train pulls out. The Bush train has pulled out. And what we have left is a disaster. And we all know what the disasters are and where they started. The word god is thrown out constantly as a smoke screen to blind some that still believe. To believe instead of trying to come to the truth and try to save what we have left. In order to do that they must stop lying to themselves and admit complicity and their own wrong belief in this man. To call anyone that lied us into a war that has killed hundreds of thousands, that shredded our Constitution and where the two attacks since he was in office happened on his watch. Not just the twin towers but the anthrax attack.
Bush was and is a corrupt and flawed man. And no god had anything to do with his Presidency unless you count the god of war. To pay tribute is the ultimate in denial. And the fact that they do, says volumes about where religion is in this country. If Mr. Dobson, like the rest of his ilk, really believe in god, then they should be afraid. Very afraid. For all they have said, done and written in the name of this god of theirs. In the bible, it has something about using the name of god in vain. That does not mean swearing. It means saying and doing things in the name of god, that god did not intend. This is taking the name of god in vain. And they do it constantly.
And humming Onward Christian Soldiers while you whisper encouragement to the President as he takes us into an illegal and immoral war, is a sin. If Bush was an instrument of any deity, the deity made a poor choice. And having the title of minister before your name does not mean you speak for any god, but the one that comes from a warped view of humanity.
As it was said in one book,”I found more virtue in a childs struggle to master the multiplication tables, then in all your amens, and hallelujahs.” A paraphrase but the truth all the same. When I need a Dobson, or Roberts, or Robertson or a Falwell to tell me what sin is, the I will turn in my conscience. MY CONSCIENCE. I no longer capitalize the word god or the word bible. I no longer recognize religion as a viable was to live as practiced in this world.
June 11th, 2009 at 10:55 pmre: “George Bush was the instrument in God’s hand”
Unfortunately, the God was Mars.
June 11th, 2009 at 11:02 pmBush was told of the attacks while at the school in Florida, in front of all the kiddies.
Thus, if, as Goeglien states, he knew exactly who attacked us at that moment (”radical Islam”), then is this an admission that Bush had foreknowledge (sp?) about the attacks?
(Sidenote: Perhaps he did. I have two theories as to why he refused to testify to the 9/11 Commission unless Dick was there to hold his hand. He was such a bumbling idiot under pressure that (1) he wouldn’t be able to answer key questions, leaving the interviewers wondering who was in control during the first 8.3 months of his presidency and why there were no preventive measures taken, or (2) he would have spilled the beans about his knowledge of an impending attack.)
Or is Goeglien nothing more than a freaking idiot who is making a very lame attempt at re-writing history?
June 11th, 2009 at 11:56 pm______
Zooey Says:
——————————————————————————–
upright left Says:
The instrument of God comment is silly.
June 11th, 2009 at 8:22 pm
The instrument of “god” is non-existent.
Don’t you have a torture device (aka cross) to polish?
June 11th, 2009 at 10:52 pm
______
That’s interesting; folks like me and those Christian relatives of yours see the cross as a symbol of great self sacrifice out of love for others. But I can see how a person like yourself would see torture in it. ;)
June 12th, 2009 at 12:37 amHow many days did Bush keep us safe before he didn’t keep us safe on 9/11 again?
June 12th, 2009 at 1:10 amThese two are like candy – sweet, slow, twisted, and they’ll rot your brain.
June 12th, 2009 at 1:12 amlooktothehills Says:
I have said this numerous times. I definitely know that President Bush was used, as a vessel, by Jesus.
If you were just talking about your religion, you might deserve a certain measure of respect. However, when you link Jesus and Bush, you’re mixing religion with politics to such a degree that it borders on outright idolatry. You’re no longer a Christian; you’re a “Bushian” at exactly the point that you start ascribing him divine powers or status. I recommend you check the 1st Commandment again, which is also the most-repeated and strongestly worded prohibition anywhere in the Christian bible; that is, if you still consider it to be canonical to your brand-new religion.
.
looktothehills Says:
During his tenure, we had peace, security, and employment. Now sin has entered the camp.
peace: Afghanistan, Iraq
security: 9/11, orange alerts
employment: massive financial collapse
sin: disregard for massive suffering
I know of no way that Obama has “sinned” since coming to national attention, except for perhaps sneaking an occasional cigarette when he told his wife he was quitting.
June 12th, 2009 at 1:17 amgw better turn his protective instincts toward barney ’cause I’m still thinkin’ barbecue.
June 12th, 2009 at 1:21 am139 republicans hate facts Says:
Gotta see both. makes no sense otherwise.
June 12th, 2009 at 1:38 amIf only this story was only about plagiarism M.
June 12th, 2009 at 1:42 amupright left Says:
That’s interesting; folks like me and those Christian relatives of yours see the cross as a symbol of great self sacrifice out of love for others. But I can see how a person like yourself would see torture in it. ;)
June 12th, 2009 at 12:37 am
You and my relatives can see the cross any way you choose, but crucifixion is torture.
If Jesus existed, he didn’t die to pay for your sins, or whatever bullshit reason you claim he died for. He just died — and you celebrate that horrific death by hanging tiny torture devices around your necks.
June 12th, 2009 at 1:47 amThe greatest trait of Washington was to see things as they were and not as he wanted to see them. That was George W. Bush’s gift when it came to this war.
It’s weird that you quote Washington when you surely don’t know what the hell you are saying. YOU ARE BLIND AS A BAT (nutzo too)…and you can’t recognize reality.
dobson followers are more that stupid. dobson’s a taddy misguided, greedy, fakeass, evil, warmongering repug. And is using God’s name in vain.
IDIOT! You ignorant old fool.
BE GONE! Kool-Aid man.
June 12th, 2009 at 2:26 amupright left Says:
That’s interesting; folks like me and those Christian relatives of yours see the cross as a symbol of great self sacrifice out of love for others. But I can see how a person like yourself would see torture in it. ;)
Christians are supposed to see torture in it. If Jesus wasn’t tortured on the cross, then his death isn’t significant. Accepting the fact that he was tortured and being mindful of how horrific that was is the purpose of keeping crosses around. If you call yourself a Christian but don’t see torture in a cross, then you’re not sufficiently appreciative of Christ’s sacrifice. That’s the entire point of crosses. The central symbol of Christianity isn’t a fuzzy bunny or a heart, dude.
June 12th, 2009 at 2:29 am______
Zooey Says:
——————————————————————————–
upright left Says:
That’s interesting; folks like me and those Christian relatives of yours see the cross as a symbol of great self sacrifice out of love for others. But I can see how a person like yourself would see torture in it. ;)
June 12th, 2009 at 12:37 am
You and my relatives can see the cross any way you choose, but crucifixion is torture.
If Jesus existed, he didn’t die to pay for your sins, or whatever bullshit reason you claim he died for. He just died — and you celebrate that horrific death by hanging tiny torture devices around your necks.
June 12th, 2009 at 1:47 am
______
That’s an accurate description for non-Christians who wear the cross as they do any other jewelry. Don’t trouble yourself about your inability to see it for what it really is. ;)
June 12th, 2009 at 2:36 am______
ElBruce Says:
——————————————————————————–
upright left Says:
That’s interesting; folks like me and those Christian relatives of yours see the cross as a symbol of great self sacrifice out of love for others. But I can see how a person like yourself would see torture in it. ;)
______
If you call yourself a Christian but don’t see torture in a cross, then you’re not sufficiently appreciative of Christ’s sacrifice.
June 12th, 2009 at 2:29 am
______
Perhaps you missed this phrase: a symbol of great self sacrifice out of love for others. We are to focus on the love inherent in the sacrifice. Non-Christians seem to spend a lot of time telling Christians what our faith is supposed to mean. ;)
June 12th, 2009 at 2:45 amcurious@131
Well said. I like your style and flow!
June 12th, 2009 at 2:49 amPerhaps you missed this phrase: a symbol of great self sacrifice out of love for others. We are to focus on the love inherent in the sacrifice. Non-Christians seem to spend a lot of time telling Christians what our faith is supposed to mean. ;)
Get real, Jesus couldn’t have done anything to escape his destiny. So your “self-sacrifice” interpretation goes out the window.
June 12th, 2009 at 2:54 amBusch cut brush and read books. Just ask him.
June 12th, 2009 at 3:13 amupright left Says:
Perhaps you missed this phrase: a symbol of great self sacrifice out of love for others. We are to focus on the love inherent in the sacrifice. Non-Christians seem to spend a lot of time telling Christians what our faith is supposed to mean.
The love inherent in the sacrifice is demonstrated by the degree of the sacrifice. The symbolism of the cross is a matter of historical theology. You might be some odd offshoot cult from Christianity that seeks to revise what the cross specifically represents, but then you’re the one telling all the other Christians what their faith is supposed to mean.
.
Game of Life Says:
Get real, Jesus couldn’t have done anything to escape his destiny. So your “self-sacrifice” interpretation goes out the window.
Sure he could, since we’re getting all theological here. He had plenty of warning to get out of Jerusalem. I’m sure they wouldn’t have chased him. It was a very similar situation to that of Socrates; he was fully complicit in his own execution.
There are a lot better critical angles to play, if you want to play them. In one Jack Chick tract parody, the big glowing God/Jesus asks someone, “Why would I need to sacrifice Myself to Myself to allow Me to change a rule… I made Myself!?!” That one’s answerable, but not easily.
There’s also the point to be made that if Christ’s death and resurrection were necessary to save mankind, then Judas was fulfilling God’s will; this interpretation is inherent in the fact that at the Last Supper, Jesus stated he knew Judas would betray him and then told him to go do it. So the question is: is Judas in Hell, or in Heaven? If in Hell, then how could he be damned for being an “instrument of God?” (look, I tied it back to the OP!)
June 12th, 2009 at 3:17 amApe-Man Says:
Busch cut brush and read books. Just ask him.
I’m not so sure about the book reading, either.
June 12th, 2009 at 3:23 amBush kept us safe? That’s a sick joke. Tell that to all the people who jumped to their deaths from the World Trade Towers on 9/11.
June 12th, 2009 at 5:33 amI’ve often wondered if Jesus was just some guy who had depression and who, quite frankly, didn’t give a shit what they did to him. He might have been willing to let them kill him because he had no desire to be alive any more. Which is not the same as saying he wanted to kill himself. Just that he no longer wished to live.
Funny how the Judeo-Christian religions all got started by some guys wandering in the desert and who later claimed to have visions. We know now that the heat will do that to ya. Why do we continue to believe any of their stories? Isn’t a more rational and sensible explanation for what happened to them be that they went crazy?
If you were found wandering out the desert today claiming you had visions and heard messages from God, do you think you would be believed by a lot of people, or do you think they would lock you up and claim you have a “messianic complex”?
June 12th, 2009 at 7:41 am#32 Marie Says:
This is news? IOKIYAR explains everything.
Cheers,
June 12th, 2009 at 7:44 am______
ElBruce Says:
——————————————————————————–
upright left Says:
Perhaps you missed this phrase: a symbol of great self sacrifice out of love for others. We are to focus on the love inherent in the sacrifice. Non-Christians seem to spend a lot of time telling Christians what our faith is supposed to mean.
The love inherent in the sacrifice is demonstrated by the degree of the sacrifice. The symbolism of the cross is a matter of historical theology.
______
Exactly. The symbol of the greatest sacrifice; the perfect sacrifice; the greatest love.
June 12th, 2009 at 7:46 am______
ElBruce Says:
——————————————————————————–
There’s also the point to be made that if Christ’s death and resurrection were necessary to save mankind, then Judas was fulfilling God’s will; this interpretation is inherent in the fact that at the Last Supper, Jesus stated he knew Judas would betray him and then told him to go do it. So the question is: is Judas in Hell, or in Heaven? If in Hell, then how could he be damned for being an “instrument of God?” (look, I tied it back to the OP!)
June 12th, 2009 at 3:17 am
______
God gave us free will. He didn’t approve of Judas’ action; He allowed it. It would have been easy enough to find Jesus without Judas’ betrayal. Judas could be an instrument of God if by that you mean God allowed Judas’ freely chosen action to occur and used it.
June 12th, 2009 at 8:23 amThat Dobson considers W “an instrument in God’s hand” is odd. George was an instrument in Dick’s hand and thus Dobson is a Dick worshiper and therefore an atheist given that Cheney is in no way divine.
What drives these nut jobs to make such foolish and not thought through claims?
June 12th, 2009 at 8:39 amJames Dobson says, “Dogs aren’t born mooing, and people aren’t born gay.”
That’s what Ted Haggard (George Bush’s favorite right wing preacher) said two days before it was discovered that he did crystal meth while having sexual intercourse with a male prostitute.
June 12th, 2009 at 8:56 amupright left Says:
God gave us free will.
Therefore there is no person who acts as the “instrument of god” or “performs god’s will” — because those sentiments imply that the direction of the action is from god (and not from dogma — actually from god), and thus god is telling a human what to do. This is contrary to free will. This concept requires that god has communicated a desired course of action, and any such direct communication is in defiance of free will — while you may like to argue that such communication could be just ’suggestion’ and that the person still has the free will to ignore god, the situation itself includes and requires that the person receiving the communication believes completely and unreservedly that the communication is directly and unambiguously from god. Now, only a great fool would “hear the voice of god” clearly and without question to the source, telling him or her to do something, and then ignore it. Therefore, god making it clear that it is god talking telling someone what to do is, implicitly, a compulsion to act as proscribed by god. This is not, then, a case of free will. One’s choice is not an open and free choice, since god stepped in and let the person know clearly that god expects a certain action — which is a compulsion to act, not an offer of a choice of actions.
Parse if youplease, but you are only fooling yourself. “The voice of god” in your head telling you to do something, and you do not question that it truly and absolutelyy is god speaking, is a compulsion to act in that way. God could subtly hint at desired actions without “making his will known” to a human clearly, thus allowing for more free will. However, to be truly “free will” requires that god does not attempt to influence any person’s actions at all, as once there is infulence the “free” of “free will” is lost — and is inherent in the descriptions used: was he acting according to his “free will”, or was he acting according to “god’s will”? The two are mutually exclusive when there is intervention involved.
And for the christ-ian, which etymologically means “Christ LIKE”, the concept of “a symbol of great self sacrifice out of love for others” should then be your guide to treating others. How much are YOU willing to sacrafice for the sake of others? Considering your political beliefs, not much (You don’t want to have YOUR “hard-earned” money pay for welfare, other’s medical care, or any other such things… YOU want to keep “YOUR MONEY”, all for YOURSELF. Greed, plain and simple. So, what would Jesus say about that? Of course, you have your free will. I believe that Jesus said, on a number of occasions, something along the lines of “The rich man has his reward here on earth, but the poor man will have his reward in heaven.”
June 12th, 2009 at 9:33 amChristian Taliban anyone?
June 12th, 2009 at 9:41 amGod gave us free will. He didn’t approve of Judas’ action; He allowed it. It would have been easy enough to find Jesus without Judas’ betrayal. Judas could be an instrument of God if by that you mean God allowed Judas’ freely chosen action to occur and used it.
And the Sneetches fought over who was better, the one’s with stars on their bellies, or the one’s without.
Both stories are pure fiction, but Dr. Seuss a much better writer and story teller.
June 12th, 2009 at 9:42 amAnyone who Believes that they, or their boss, have been chosen by God should be barred from government service. And anyone who thinks God wants us to invade a country for no good reason should be committed. It requires such a level of self delusion that the deluded party can’t be counted upon for rational decisions.
June 12th, 2009 at 9:46 am______
CageyCretin Says:
Now, only a great fool would “hear the voice of god” clearly and without question to the source, telling him or her to do something, and then ignore it.
Do you not know any “great fools”? I assure you they are plentiful. But it’s not only fools who would ignore God’s will. Those with a sinful nature (everyone) also ignore God’s will. Your premise is just silly.
And for the christ-ian, which etymologically means “Christ LIKE”, the concept of “a symbol of great self sacrifice out of love for others” should then be your guide to treating others. How much are YOU willing to sacrafice for the sake of others? Considering your political beliefs, not much (You don’t want to have YOUR “hard-earned” money pay for welfare, other’s medical care, or any other such things… YOU want to keep “YOUR MONEY”, all for YOURSELF. Greed, plain and simple. So, what would Jesus say about that? Of course, you have your free will. I believe that Jesus said, on a number of occasions, something along the lines of “The rich man has his reward here on earth, but the poor man will have his reward in heaven.”
Why do you assume that because you are a strict partisan that everyone else is too? I’m all for welfare as long as it carries requirements that recipients who are able are making progress toward becoming at least somewhat self sufficient. I want the govt to provide healthcare to those who can’t afford it and to prevent anyone from being bankrupted by medical costs. I don’t want the govt to create an enormous money pit in the process of trying to help people. The tens of billions of dollars of waste and fraud in the Medicare system is nothing compared to what we’ll see if great care isn’t taken in the process of insuring everyone. If that is greed, plain and simple, then I’m guilty.
I’m well aware of what the Bible says regarding wealth and helping others. I’m also aware of what it says about not making your good works known to others. Suffice to say I’m comfortable in the knowledge that, more often than not, I have done the right thing in helping people in need. Fortunately for all of us, we don’t judge each other in the end; Jesus does. ;)
June 12th, 2009 at 10:25 amConsidering Dub would likely need to look up the word “existentially” in a dictionary first, and then someone to explain it further, I don’t think that’s really an accurate description of what he knew or didn’t know.
June 12th, 2009 at 10:45 amNoboby with a brain takes Dobson seriously. He’s just another wing-nut making up reality as he goes along.
June 12th, 2009 at 11:14 amLego Christ says all your beliefs are heresy!
June 12th, 2009 at 12:21 pmTo be real, Clinton kept us safe for 8 years. He also kept us financially secured too.
June 12th, 2009 at 12:47 pmDobson is a child psychologist not a minister.
June 12th, 2009 at 12:54 pmHe’s very big on corporal punishment as evidenced by his books. Does that say anything about his character?
I partly agree with this statement:
“George W. Bush kept us safe. Providence kept us safe. But George Bush was the instrument in God’s hand as the leader of the free world.”
George W. Bush was a tool. ;-D
Cheney is filling the void in the Former President George W. Bush’s much welcomed absence.
June 12th, 2009 at 1:06 pmRE Plagarism; Did Bush give proper credit to Pete Townsend with his “fool me once, shame of you, fool me ….. won’t get fooled again”?
June 12th, 2009 at 1:26 pmwhy do people that use the words blessing, gift, and war in the same sentence frighten me?
June 12th, 2009 at 1:35 pmsorry i meant same breath, not sentence
June 12th, 2009 at 1:36 pmWhether your a Christian, or a filthy heathen, this Christmas, share the gift of war.
Looking for that perfect gift? Why not give war, it creates jobs, stimulates the economy, and when done in the name of the one true God and his sidekicks Jesus and Holy Ghosty, brings us one step to meeting the maker himself. Think of the look of joy on the recipients face when they realized you’ve brought them one step closer to the rapture. Think of the countless innocents that can be “saved” as our holy warriors precision bombs them to smithereens, (and hopefully Heaven) and then come in to destroy what is left – ALL IN THE NAME OF GOD!
Think of the feel-good opportunities that will be opened, when you and your friends can then donate clothing, food, money, prayers and time to helping the orphaned survivors, who although they probably weren’t that bad off in hind site, now depend on the generosity of the world community for their continued survival.
Don’t worry, should they suffer and die as well, you can still pray for their souls.
I know, your heart is warmed by the thoughts about how war is so good for the global community, and a holy war, makes it even warmer.
So write your representatives, and tell them you want to spread the blessing of war, especially to those less fortunate, non-christians.
June 12th, 2009 at 1:58 pm– “George W. Bush kept us safe. Providence kept us safe. But George Bush was the instrument in God’s hand as the leader of the free world.”
I think I just threw up in my mouth a little………..
June 12th, 2009 at 2:04 pm“Instrument in God’s hand?” Which god would that be? Thor, Zeus, Posidon? He served his god alright. And he still serves the dark side. Memo to W: take a look at the Ten Commandments
June 12th, 2009 at 5:29 pmTired of fighting:
June 13th, 2009 at 11:58 amI laughed at your comment until I re-read the signature. God bless you in your loss. The only comment I had to say when dubya announced his war plan was: “We’re now going to send our children to kill their children”.
Your post says it all – and I wish we, as Americans, would remember the true losses we are still enduring. When put in perspective, the rest is meaningless.
jdlee
The phrase “the instrument in God’s hand” just brings some rather… blasphemous images to mind.
June 14th, 2009 at 2:35 amen son videolar
June 14th, 2009 at 12:38 pmen son videolar