Neocons Claim Iranian Elections Don’t Matter
Neocons Claim Iranian Elections Don’t Matter
Yesterday, the American Prospect’s Dana Goldstein noted that the American Israeli Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC), despite warning of the dangers of an Iran led by Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, are now suggesting that his possible ouster in today’s elections in Iran will not have any impact on how the Iranian government approaches relations with the West. Goldstein characterized AIPAC’s message this way: “If you are concerned about the expansion of Iran’s nuclear program, the argument goes, it doesn’t matter whether Ahmadinejad wins or loses.”
As the Wonk Room’s Matt Duss and HuffPost’s Rachel Weiner have noted, AIPAC’s read on the Iranian elections is nearly identical to that of the broader neo-conservative community:
Daniel Pipes: “The president tends to have power in the areas — in the soft areas — having to do with culture and religion and education. And it is the Rahbare, the Supreme Guide of Iran, Khomeini at first and now Khamenei who has control of the military, the law enforcement, the judiciary system, the intelligence agencies. So its not clear that the president matters that much.” [Heritage Foundation Panel, 6/03/09]
Michael Rubin: “[S]hould someone more soft-spoken and less defiant [than Ahmadinejad] — someone like former prime minister Mir-Hossein Mousavi — win, it would be easier for Obama to believe that Iran really was figuratively unclenching a fist when, in fact, it had it had its other hand hidden under its cloak, grasping a dagger.” [National Review, 06/11/09]
Elliot Abrams: “In fact, a victory by Mr. Ahmadinejad’s main challenger, Mir Hussein Moussavi, is more likely to change Western policy toward Iran than to change Iran’s own conduct.” [New York Times, 06/12/09]
In apparent confirmation that such sentiments have now become neoconservative dogma, John Bolton echoed them on Fox News this morning. Bolton — who has long demonized Ahmadinejad as a significant threat to U.S. national security — argued to Fox’s Bill Hemmer that an Ahmadinejad defeat would not change Iran’s foreign policy because such issues are handled by the Iran’s religious leaders:
HEMMER: It doesn’t matter who wins then, based on what you’re telling us.
BOLTON: In terms of foreign policy. People like to joke this dispute between moderates and hard liners is that you have Ahmadinejad who tells people that he’s proceeding with the nuclear program and plans to wipe Israel off the map, or whether you have a moderate who proceeds with the nuclear program but is smart enough to keep his mouth shut.
Watch it:
In fact, it would be significant for the Iranian people to reject the radical politics and hard-line policies of Ahmadinejad. As Duss explains, the clerical leadership does not appear to be as interested in pursuing nuclear weapons as Ahmadinejad appears to be. Goldstein adds, “The thing to remember is that despite buzz to the contrary, there are key foreign policy differences between Ahmadinejad, who does not support international talks regarding the Iranian nuclear program, and Mousavi, who does.”
Laura Rozen agrees, writing that “the voting out of incumbent President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad would undoubtedly be seen in Washington and the West as a welcome sign that the Iranian public supports greater liberalization and a less hostile attitude toward the West.” Indeed, even if Ahmadinejad’s main challenger, Mousavi, loses, the campaign demonstrates that “there’s clearly a lot of popular disconnect with Ahmadinejad’s rule, and a lot of it centers around his bizarrely self-defeating approach to foreign policy,” Stephen Walt concludes.
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You know, I’m starting to feel sorry for the Republics…NOT! Their hypocrisy knows no bounds and it is becoming more apparent as the days go by. I’m sure they are praying for Ahmadinejad to steal the election. If he doesn’t, the right will lose their boogey man. And heaven forbid if they don’t have a boogey man to use to scare us.
June 12th, 2009 at 1:47 pmNot a shred of intellectual integrity in that bunch.
Not a shred.
June 12th, 2009 at 1:48 pmWait, wait! They’ve been telling us for years that Iran is clearly a horrible scary threat because the president says such awful things. Now we learn that the president is a figurehead?
June 12th, 2009 at 1:49 pmLet’s not forget that Ahmadinejad became President in part as response to Bush’s war in Iraq. Right-wing bluster appeals to many people when their country is being threatened.
June 12th, 2009 at 1:50 pm“there’s clearly a lot of popular disconnect with Ahmadinejad’s rule, and a lot of it centers around his bizarrely self-defeating approach to foreign policy,”
If you replace Ahmadinejad with Republican, it’s the same here, no?
June 12th, 2009 at 1:52 pmI hope they’re not as dumb as they sound or as senile.
June 12th, 2009 at 1:52 pm…
the trolls don’t seem to care.
that seems to be the new trend.
:|
June 12th, 2009 at 1:52 pmHey, don’t be too hard on them. Look at all the object lessons they provided us in Florida in 2000 and Ohio in 2004.
June 12th, 2009 at 1:52 pmNeocons Claim Iranian Elections Don’t Matter
– - Of course they don’t. Why would anyone think a sea change election could possibly alter the course of a nation’s history and how they’re viewed upon the world stage, right Mr. Gore?
June 12th, 2009 at 1:53 pmIf Iran’s president “doesn’t matter that much” , why does the GOP go bonkers every time the MSM covers something Mahmoud Ahmadinejad says , ad nauseam ?
June 12th, 2009 at 1:55 pmjoe cantwell, I think the RNC ran through their all of their stimulus funding for Troll Central in one mad frenzied effort to contain the damage of the White Separatist shooter at the Holocaust Musuem.
June 12th, 2009 at 1:56 pmOf course their elections don’t matter. We’ve overturned their election results and installed the dictators we wanted to have ruling that country in the past. Who’s to stop us from doing it again?
June 12th, 2009 at 1:57 pmSo when Ahmadinejad says something outrageous, he is the most powerful man in Iran and threatens us directly. But when he is going to be ousted by a moderate, he isn’t much important and Iran still threatens us directly.
Either way, you need to be scared, scared, scared, and we need to nuke Tehran before the sun sets.
June 12th, 2009 at 1:57 pm…you have Ahmadinejad who tells people that he’s proceeding with the nuclear program and plans to wipe Israel off the map…
____________
Except that he never said that. But do go on, Walrusface – we’re listening.
June 12th, 2009 at 1:59 pmSounds like Iran is just about as fed up with their Bush-in-a-dinner-jacket as America was with our thug.
Could be the whole them-or-us, bomb, bomb, bomb message is wearing thin. Might it be possible that the adults will get a chance at running the world for a change?
June 12th, 2009 at 1:59 pmPipes: “So its not clear that the president matters that much.”
Right… hmm then why have neocons jumped on every opportunity to paint Ahmadinejad as the big scary boogieman who threatens to nuke Israel?
Poor neocons what they gonna do if Ahmadinejad loose the election
June 12th, 2009 at 2:00 pmRobert M. Says:
Of course their elections don’t matter. We’ve overturned their election results and installed the dictators we wanted to have ruling that country in the past. Who’s to stop us from doing it again?
Sort of like we did here?
June 12th, 2009 at 2:00 pmgalmud Says:
Poor neocons what they gonna do if Ahmadinejad loose the election
June 12th, 2009 at 2:00 pm
______________
Same thing they’re doing now – fearmongering and beating the drums for war with Iran.
June 12th, 2009 at 2:02 pmThe neocons and Ahmadinejad need each other. If the status quo with Iran breaks down, the extremists on both sides will be out of work.
June 12th, 2009 at 2:03 pm“Something good about to happen? Quick! Make an argument – ANY ARGUMENT – to say we get the credit, … or that it really is BAD, … or that it doesn’t matter, … or ALL THREE!”
June 12th, 2009 at 2:04 pmThe Republican-NeoCon Party: just the right size to fail…
June 12th, 2009 at 2:05 pmEnjoy their going-out-of-business sale next year…
Hoodathunktick Says:
——————————————————————————–
Sort of like we did here?
Well, actually, back then there were guns and some killings involved in getting rid of their president. Here, the neo-Clowns merely pulled the strings their masters told them to pull, and magically, the sheep in this nation allowed it all to happen as if there were nothing We the People could have done about it.
June 12th, 2009 at 2:06 pmIronically it was the poorer folks that Ahmadinehjad helped and our supporting him. That had to be another reason the neocons hated him.
June 12th, 2009 at 2:07 pmThe bigger problem for the neo con jobbers is that could seriously be loosing their reason of being given their stupid and naive worldview of bomb first and maybe negotiate later if the bombing doesn’t work.
What a bunch of losers.
June 12th, 2009 at 2:09 pmThis is simply a preemptive strike to prevent Obama from getting any ‘foreign policy’ credit for the Iraq election, whether deserved or not. While I generally ignore folks who hypothesize that, “If a DEMOCRAT has done this, then blah, blah, blah…”, but I’m pretty confident that, had this occurred on Bush’s watch, we would have heard plenty about how this was a historic, landmark election brought about solely by Bush’s brilliant military and diplomatic efforts in the region that many Americans were been too short-sighted to applaud.
June 12th, 2009 at 2:12 pmIran poses a great danger to israel. They need to be attacked.
June 12th, 2009 at 2:13 pm“brilliant” and Bush don’t belong in the same sentence.
June 12th, 2009 at 2:13 pmDidnt Pipes say just the other day he would vote for AmenJihad?
June 12th, 2009 at 2:13 pm
Robert M,
Who are the sheep you are referring to? Are you one? What exactly do/did you propose We The People do about the stolen elections?
June 12th, 2009 at 2:14 pmAre the Rethugs complaining about the money spent for Bush Sr. jumping out of an army plane today like they complain about the Obamas going to the theater?
June 12th, 2009 at 2:16 pmThe ‘clash of civilization’ imperialists just want to throw around American military power because they think might is right.
June 12th, 2009 at 2:16 pmRobert M. Says:
Well, actually, back then there were guns and some killings involved in getting rid of their president. Here, the neo-Clowns merely pulled the strings their masters told them to pull, and magically, the sheep in this nation allowed it all to happen as if there were nothing We the People could have done about it.
June 12th, 2009 at 2:06 pm
____________
It wasn’t all magic and strings, you know. The neocons had people killed here, too.
June 12th, 2009 at 2:16 pmShayne, you have a very valid point. President Ahmadinehjad was doing many things to help the poor. But the fact that literally millions took to the streets (very much like America supported Obama last summer) says that isn’t enough.
When the Iranians, long touted as some of the most fanatical of people, bring out massive support for moderation, it is something to be listened to.
The world is slowly getting tired of war.
June 12th, 2009 at 2:17 pmRepublicans, neocons and their trolls pose a great danger to the USA. They stole the election for Al Gore which is where they should have been stopped. Then they spent 8 years decimating all that is good about this country. Enough is enough.
June 12th, 2009 at 2:17 pmThere is a reason they call it the military DEFENSE instead of offense. The Kerkos dont seem to get that.
June 12th, 2009 at 2:17 pmRich H Says:
Who are the sheep you are referring to? Are you one? What exactly do/did you propose We The People do about the stolen elections?
June 12th, 2009 at 2:14 pm
___________
There are a number of things we can do. Get involved with the election commissions in your local jurisdiction, volunteer as a poll worker or election monitor, lobby your local government to use paper ballots instead of electronic machines, that sort of thing.
June 12th, 2009 at 2:18 pmThe one thing the neo cons can’t stand is life without an enemy. Look at history….every time a Republican gets into office …..evil rears its ugly head.
But for some reason, every time a Democrats get into power…peace and prosperty.
So why is it that the Republicans get away with the bull shite theories that they are the party that produces wealth???? OH I FORGOT…..CORPORATE WEALTH. SCREW THE PEOPLE.
As Led Zep sung…..YOUR TIME IS GONNA COME, YOUR TIME IS GONNA COME!!!
Peace!!
June 12th, 2009 at 2:19 pmHoodathunktick, “touted” is the correct phrase. Iranians have always been among the most enlightened in the Middle East. Their fanatical religious leaders probably took control because of our manipulation of their government.
June 12th, 2009 at 2:20 pmJimmy Big Butt needs serious therapy. A 72 hour mental health visit to the nearest medical facility is called for.
Either that or OFnF.
June 12th, 2009 at 2:20 pmX, what does kerkos mean?
June 12th, 2009 at 2:21 pmThat would be a big waste of resources. You can’t fix stupid. :=)
June 12th, 2009 at 2:21 pmShayne, you could take the probably out of your statement.
June 12th, 2009 at 2:21 pmHoodathunktick Says:
Jimmy Big Butt needs serious therapy. A 72 hour mental health visit to the nearest medical facility is called for.
June 12th, 2009 at 2:20 pm
___________
I don’t think his heart’s in it anymore. He’s not even trying to troll. Just making a weak effort to collect his paycheck.
It’s sad, really.
June 12th, 2009 at 2:22 pmRemember when we were told that the soviets posed a great threat to America and we never attacked each other?
It was called MAD.
June 12th, 2009 at 2:22 pmThat would be a big waste of resources. You can’t fix stupid. :=)
No but you can confine and medicate the crap out of it. ;)
June 12th, 2009 at 2:22 pmBolton “The Buffoon” has spoken making it official Ahmadinejad must go if Bolton says it doesn’t matter than it damn sure matters
June 12th, 2009 at 2:22 pmIsn’t it funny how all the countries on the axis of evil are NOT PART OF THE CENTRAL BANKING SYSTEM. One of the things that make you go HMMMMMMMMMMMM.
June 12th, 2009 at 2:23 pmBut for some reason, every time a Democrats get into power…peace and prosperty.
Umm….. WW2? Vietnam? All started under a democrats watch. Jesus you libs are retarded.
June 12th, 2009 at 2:23 pmYou know, some idiots say that it’s the USA’s job to do Israel’s work for them… I wonder why… it’s not as if Israel doesn’t have one of the biggest armies in the region, along with 200 nukes.
June 12th, 2009 at 2:24 pmYOUTH.
That’s the descriptor missing from this story.
Iranian youth are fed up with being forced to live in the 15th Century.
The young lady from my neck of the woods, Roxana Seberi, just returned home from 4 months in an Iranian prison. I’m looking forward to her, (I’m assuming here), book about her experiences.
Iranian youth are much like young folks in China, Russia or even North Korea. They want Western conveniences, including music & true information. I believe most of them support President Obama, much to the chagrin of their so called leaders.
American youth are voting Democratic. World youth basically believe in the same principles.
The NeoCON shelf life has expired. Time to clean the shelves and restock with a new, improved product.
June 12th, 2009 at 2:24 pmBeyond the surface absurdity of Mr. Bolton’s claim, coverage of the Iranian elections may have another positive effect – showing Americans that Iranians are not (all) dour, hate-spewing crazies.
June 12th, 2009 at 2:25 pmHeh. Kerkos it means basically tail [buttocks] men..also means Cercopes [liars, cheats, knaves] what I have started calling trolls.
More here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cercopes
June 12th, 2009 at 2:26 pmIt has been a slow day. Maybe we should slap this one around a bit before ignoring it…
June 12th, 2009 at 2:26 pmOf course this doesn’t matter to the warmongering Neocons–they have never been thinking defensively. These are wars of aggression and conquest and profit.
Casus Belli is a marketing afterthought.
June 12th, 2009 at 2:26 pmGotta love how anyone that is pro-israel is a ” neocon zionist “. You libs are batshit insane.
June 12th, 2009 at 2:26 pmVietnam? Sure. WW2? FDR started WW2?
June 12th, 2009 at 2:26 pmRemember, liberals started WW2 because they wanted to fight Hitler, who was a Nazi, just like they are.
I swear, it made sense when a homely transsexual said it!
June 12th, 2009 at 2:28 pmJimmy Big Bucks Says:
But for some reason, every time a Democrats get into power…peace and prosperty.
Umm….. WW2? Vietnam? All started under a democrats watch. Jesus you libs are retarded.
First US “advisors” were sent to Vietnam by (drum roll) Eisenhower in 1955. In case you failed to notice, Eisenhower was a Republican.
And a hint: WWII was started when the Japanese attacked the US.
June 12th, 2009 at 2:29 pmWhy does Israel need nukes?
June 12th, 2009 at 2:29 pmSo aren’t they admitting that no matter what Iran does, we just want to nuke ‘me . Just because.
It doesn’t matter if Iran applies to become the 51st state. It doesn’t matter if Iran sends us postcards with kittens and flowers.
It isn’t about Iran. It is about the need to manufacture a crisis to justify our hatred and paranoia.
June 12th, 2009 at 2:29 pmNOTHING will get in the neo-cons way of BOMB, BOMB, BOMB, BOMB IRAN!! (sung to the tune of Barbara Ann by the Beach Boys …)
June 12th, 2009 at 2:29 pmWhat do you call it when a country believes the only way they can exist is by killing everyone who thinks otherwise?
Other than bat shyte crazy.
June 12th, 2009 at 2:29 pmVietnam started in 1959.
June 12th, 2009 at 2:30 pmDoes batshit make you go insane? Or is that a special type of insane?
June 12th, 2009 at 2:31 pmJimmy Big Bucks Says:
Gotta love how anyone that is pro-israel is a ” neocon zionist “. You libs are batshit insane.
Well, you’re the only one bringing up Zionism in this thread.
June 12th, 2009 at 2:31 pmIsrael reminds me of South Africa when it was ruled by hateful, racist, land stealing, murderous, white people from Europe.
June 12th, 2009 at 2:31 pmActually, Viet Nam got started during the Korean War. The French just decided it was a lost cause and handed it over to the US.
June 12th, 2009 at 2:32 pmdelafield Says:
——————————————————————————–
Israel reminds me of South Africa when it was ruled by hateful, racist, land stealing, murderous, white people from Europe.
and look at africa now, LOL.
June 12th, 2009 at 2:33 pmOkay. Here goes.
Iran has every right to pursue nuclear deterrence. Their nuclear program was the only thing standing between them and being bombed by either the U.S. or Israel. Nuclear weapons are purely DEFENSIVE weapons, because if Iran nukes ANYBODY, Tehran will be turned into a shivering shimmering sea of molten glass. So.
Anybody, including Bolton or any lefties, who claims Iran MUST be stopped from pursuing nuclear weapons, is not only a day late to the party, but fooling more than just themselves. Iran HAS nukes. Despite the NIE to the contrary, common sense dictates we must presume that. We must also conclude that these nukes are no threat to anyone, but purely a defensive measure by Iran.
So. It really makes no difference if the leader of Iran SAYS they’re developing nukes or REFRAINS from saying so, but not for the lying reasons John Bolted-On claims. And: The President of Iran does not order military strikes, making whatever they say even MORE moot than any neocon trying to scare you will claim.
One final note: The elections of the U.S. and of Iran have some un-democratic rules to them, both: The Electoral College is anything BUT democratic, and the election of 2000 proves forever that our system of choosing a President is hopelessly flawed. Iran’s highest ayatollahs have final approval of all candidates, a most decidedly un-democratic feature, but they’re better than us in at least two ways:
1) Extending elections, that already last four times longer than ours, past the deadline is perfectly legal, as long as there are still people who haven’t voted who want to vote and 2) they have runoffs.
Pot, meet kettle.
June 12th, 2009 at 2:33 pmUmm….. WW2? Vietnam? All started under a democrats watch. Jesus you libs are retarded
WW2….war not of choice and Vietnam was a manifestation by the Repugs claiming Dems were weak on communism (remember the 50’s tirades about communism?) and presure by the industrial military complex. Why do you think the Military always votes Repugs???? Dems learned and are smart enough not to repeat. The Repugs still dumb as dumber gets!!!!
June 12th, 2009 at 2:34 pmJimmy BB, do the elections in Iran today matter?
June 12th, 2009 at 2:35 pmAnyone who claims WW II was started by DEMOCRATS is trying to communicate with a faulty brain. That not only deserves no reply, it deserves an abuse report.
When will the lies stop? Ever? Or are we headed for a real, live ammo civil war in this country? It sure looks like it…
June 12th, 2009 at 2:37 pmI think there have been hints of what is about to happen in Iran fro quite some time. The first real clue was when al Sadr in Iraq announced a unilateral cease-fire in Iraq. He has close ties with the Clerics in Iran and they surely signed off on al Sadr’s change of policy.
Another indication the Clerics are fine with what is happening right now in Iran is because they have not cracked down on these massive demonstrations.
It is hard to say how much credit Hillary Clinton gets for this but we can be sure that this would not have happened during Bush’s tenure or under a McCain administration. The same can be said for what happened recently in Lebanon. Regardless, things are happening at a dizzying speed in the Middle-East and they are mostly for the good. Thanks Barack and Hillary.
June 12th, 2009 at 2:37 pmHertzl, an atheist, the father of modern Zionism, worked for the creation of the state of Israel, not because of any biblical prophecy.
June 12th, 2009 at 2:37 pm
MapleStreet sed:
“It isn’t about Iran. It is about the need to manufacture a crisis to justify your hatred and paranoia.”
Fixed your typo. And recc’d, too, while I was at it.
June 12th, 2009 at 2:38 pmAlbino caterpillar lip and the rest of the fear-crazed warmongers have no creditability in foreign policy matters since all their batshit crazy ideas are derived from alternate reality la-la land. They should just shut up….forever.
June 12th, 2009 at 2:40 pmJimmy Big Bucks Says:
Iran poses a great danger to israel. They need to be attacked.
***
think with your dipstick,
jimmy!
:::
June 12th, 2009 at 2:40 pmhellinabucket Says:
Jimmy BB, do the elections in Iran today matter?
You might want to ask him if the last election in this country matters. The right wingers are acting like it never happened.
June 12th, 2009 at 2:41 pmThen they should admit that only reason that nuclear arms are the theocracy’s decision is because they’ve officially issued a fatwa (religious ruling) against having them. They have officially ruled that having nuclear weapons is “un-Islamic.”
So all this talk about how they’re going to develop nukes, if you admit that the theocracy is making that call, is bunk.
.
Jimmy Big Bucks Says:
Iran poses a great danger to israel. They need to be attacked.
That’s a perfect way to endanger Israel more. It’s pretty obvious that y’all are just trying to pick a fight between Israel and all of its neighbors.
That’s also exactly the kind of thing that the right-wing hardliners in the Arab world are saying about us. We’re not buying that here any more, and it’s starting to look like they’re not buying it from your “Islamo-fascist” counterparts over there.
.
Jimmy Big Bucks Says:
Gotta love how anyone that is pro-israel is a ” neocon zionist “. You libs are batshit insane.
I’m pro-Israel, which is why I’m not goading them and all of their enemies into bringing on Armageddon so I can meet Jeebus.
.
Jimmy Big Bucks Says:
and look at africa now, LOL.
South Africa is doing OK, thanks.
June 12th, 2009 at 2:44 pmI can’t wait for the day when the new president of Iran meets with Obama, face to face.
Our people don’t hate Iranians and Iranian people don’t hate Americans.
It’s the Neo cons in America that hate the Neo Cons in Iran and the Neo cons in Iran hate the Neo cons in America. So lets put them all in the desert with guns and missles and let them fight themselves!!!! Oh I forgot…our neo cons are chicken shits!!!! They don’t fight, no wonder they need the US military to do the fighting for them!!!! Peaces of shite they are!!!
June 12th, 2009 at 2:44 pmWhat I find interesting is when a troll posts here and calls us “libs” bat$hit crazy, and retarded. Yet this same troll is the one lacking in US history, and apparently, the proper education to capitalize country names. Like Israel.
June 12th, 2009 at 2:44 pmIran poses a great danger to israel. They need to be attacked.
Really???? Who has the nuclear weapons ???? Not Iran. Not yet anyway.
June 12th, 2009 at 2:45 pmHoodathunktick Says:
Actually, Viet Nam got started during the Korean War. The French just decided it was a lost cause and handed it over to the US.
One could argue that “Viet Nam” started in 1945 when the British took the country back from Ho, who had declared independence, and handed it off to France.
Or you could argue that it started in 1919 when Ho Chi Minh petitioned Woodrow Wilson to support the removal of French colonialism in SE Asia.
June 12th, 2009 at 2:46 pmBHB, I could taKe exception to that. They are reacting like it did happen, running and screaming like little kids who found cockroaches in their undie drawer.
June 12th, 2009 at 2:47 pmPoint taken, gummble. It definitely didn’t start in the 60’s.
June 12th, 2009 at 2:48 pmRight on, Daddy-O at #70!
Why can’t Iran defend herself?
Who are we, a nation armed to the teeth and who has actually used nuclear weapons and who tortures, in any position to lecture another country on how to defend themselves?
June 12th, 2009 at 2:49 pmspring heeled jack, it is called American exceptionalism. We just make rules, we don’t have to follow them anymore.
June 12th, 2009 at 2:51 pm*oops, should have been How are we…
June 12th, 2009 at 2:52 pmIf it was up to me, id nuke iran killing every man woman and child. I wouldnt think twice about it. They pose too great of a threat to israel and even America. Then id nuke north korea.
June 12th, 2009 at 2:56 pmRepublicans hate obama more than they love america!
June 12th, 2009 at 2:59 pmchiroptera toasterhead #36,
All very good ideas. I’ve done part of that myself, but the stolen election of 2000 had to do with the manipulation of electronic machines and the final interference of the Supreme Court. I know about the voter disenfranchisment etc… really quite a scandal. But electronic manipulation and the SC? What exactly was Rober M proposing we do about it after the fact?
I’m curious to know, because the way he framed his post he had a solution that we sheep didn’t follow.
June 12th, 2009 at 3:01 pmIsn’t it about time we stopped fighting the Crusades? The first round ended with Xtianity losing.
This round is looking like Judaism isn’t going to do any better.
June 12th, 2009 at 3:01 pmJimmy Big Bucks Says:
If it was up to me, id nuke iran killing every man woman and child. I wouldnt think twice about it. They pose too great of a threat to israel and even America. Then id nuke north korea.
…
why don’t you try using
viagra instead, jimmy?
:|
(sildenafil citrate)
:0
June 12th, 2009 at 3:02 pmLet me guess. You are “pro-life” right?
June 12th, 2009 at 3:03 pm“gotta nuke somethin’” right Nelson?
June 12th, 2009 at 3:03 pmHave a mentioned that you are an obvious poser?
Jimmy Big Bucks Says:
If it was up to me…
In case you were wondering, there’s a good reason why nothing more important than running the deep fryer at work is up to you.
June 12th, 2009 at 3:04 pmI don’t hate obama at all, I just don’t like his politics and the people he surrounds himself with. Its a shame because he seems like a decent person, he just chose the wrong crowd to hang out with.
June 12th, 2009 at 3:05 pmJimmy Big Bucks Says:
If it was up to me, id nuke iran killing every man woman and child. I wouldnt think twice about it. They pose too great of a threat to israel and even America. Then id nuke north korea.
June 12th, 2009 at 2:56 pm
_____________
Why do you want to kill Jews, Jimmy?
June 12th, 2009 at 3:06 pmSounds like someone is threatening to wipe someone off the map….
June 12th, 2009 at 3:06 pmJimmy Big Bucks Says:
If it was up to me, id nuke iran killing every man woman and child. I wouldnt think twice about it. They pose too great of a threat to israel and even America. Then id nuke north korea.
Folks, I believe we have a ‘responsible white supremacist’ here. As long as the Israelis are white, of course. Obviously, he would wish / do the same to Progressives.
Is the ugly face that’s been in the news all week? Is anyone truly aware of who this is & what it intends to do?
Today’s Right Wing: ‘We back up our words with weapons!’
June 12th, 2009 at 3:07 pmdbadass Says:
Sounds like someone is threatening to wipe someone off the map….
June 12th, 2009 at 3:06 pm
_________
Isn’t it cute how quickly we can get these “pro-life” morons to admit their support for genocide?
June 12th, 2009 at 3:08 pmjimmy Big Bucks Says:
I don’t hate obama at all, I just don’t like his politics and the people he surrounds himself with. Its a shame because he seems like a decent person, he just chose the wrong crowd to hang out with.
June 12th, 2009 at 3:05 pm
***
jimmy that warm feeling you’re having?
it’s the cockles of your heart :)
,,,
June 12th, 2009 at 3:09 pmAmericasBack Says:
Just in – Iranian president looses the election! …must be the Obama Effect, huh jimmeh?
June 12th, 2009 at 3:06 pm
_____________
His opponent did borrow the “Yes We Can” slogan, I understand…
June 12th, 2009 at 3:10 pmFter Iran and North Korea, who would you nuke next for your imaginary hard-on guy hattrick?
June 12th, 2009 at 3:10 pmStill waiting for Jimmy Two Times to explain why he wants to wipe the 50,000 Iranian Jews off the map.
June 12th, 2009 at 3:11 pmIs Jimmy Bug Balls really all that Troll Central can afford to put on the field?
That onslaught the other day must have really cost them some nickels.
June 12th, 2009 at 3:17 pmDamn, and I was just warming up…
June 12th, 2009 at 3:18 pmI haven’t been watching TV but I hope the media shows lots of footage of the beautiful Iranian people so that the rah!-nukes crowd can see they’re human just like us–imagine that!
And, yes, there are other Iranian activities besides burning American flags and brandishing assault weapons.
June 12th, 2009 at 3:19 pmWelcome to the New Republican Historical Quotations.
“The gun is mightier than the word.”
“I may not agree with what you have to say but I will definitely shoot you if you say it.”
June 12th, 2009 at 3:21 pmGuess who the neocons are rooting for? Yup yup.
.
AmericasBack Says:
Just in – Iranian president looses the election!
Need citation, please. I’m not finding it. All I’m seeing is news reports on the massive turnout. That bodes well for Mousavi, but that’s not the same thing as calling it.
June 12th, 2009 at 3:22 pmJaney Little Penny what good would radioactive oil be?
That is what wars, basically, are about..resources.
June 12th, 2009 at 3:22 pm
Imagine what the history of the entire region could have been if the CIA hadn’t staged a coup, hadn’t removed the duly-elected and extremely popular prime minister Mossaddeq from power and returned the Shah to the Peacock Throne.
The track record of US government interference in other countries is, well, it’s pretty bad. No administration ever seems to learn from the mistakes of their predecessors, though.
June 12th, 2009 at 3:23 pmJimmy Big Bucks says, “Iran poses a great danger to israel. They need to be attacked.”
The greatest danger to Israel are the white, European immigrants who continue to steal land from Palestinians and then move these Palestinians into Israeli controlled refugee/concentration camps.
June 12th, 2009 at 3:24 pmUS Soccer is trying to set up an exhibition game with the Iranian National Team, possibly in Tehran, this November as a tuneup for the 2010 World Cup in South Africa.
Could be very interesting.
(Note: the US has not qualified for SA 2010 yet, but it’s looking pretty good so far.)
June 12th, 2009 at 3:24 pmgummble-bee-itch, if the US has backed any government takeover that didn’t result in a dictatorship, I would appreciate enlightenment.
June 12th, 2009 at 3:24 pmgummble-bee-itch:
June 12th, 2009 at 3:26 pmAgreed. The endless jerking around in Nicaraqua is another lovely example although it sure would have been a hell of a lot easier to put that canal through there…
Birds of a feather flock together.
June 12th, 2009 at 3:28 pmAntagonistic warmongers prefer to deal with the other antagonistc warmongers of the world.
It would be easier to continue to drum up support to war with Iran if Ahmadinejad were to remain as the public face.
We always knew the ayatollahs ran the show, but neocons and the media continued to focus on the outrageous little man in the sport coat as an example of the belligerence of Iran and why we must start a war with them.
If the less inflammatory Mousavi wins, neocons lose their favorite target, and (to their horror) it may even show that the new US President may have had a little positive influence on the voters of Iran.
Weren’t the Iraqi elections horribly downplayed by the liberal media and liberal blogs? Now, the Iran elections are earth shattering news?
June 12th, 2009 at 3:28 pmFrom the inl ElBruce posted above:
American Enterprise Institute’s Michael Rubin told National Review’s Kathryn Jean Lopez it might be better for Ahmadinejad to win, because a loss might give Obama the impression that diplomacy was working.
Kinda like they hope the economy fails, because if it succeeds it might give Obama the impression that “socialism” is working.
Kinda like that.
June 12th, 2009 at 3:29 pmRemember when we fought against British imperial colonial rule?
Did that make us communists? No.
It made us independent.
June 12th, 2009 at 3:29 pmWeren’t the Iraqi elections horribly downplayed by the liberal media and liberal blogs? Now, the Iran elections are earth shattering news?
—-
June 12th, 2009 at 3:30 pmno and no…
Why is it that new posters who call themselves “centrist” or “independent” all talk like wingnuts?
June 12th, 2009 at 3:30 pmBoy jimmeh, you really are a tough guy. If you had the chance you would just nuke Iran and then move over to North Korea. Well I say, run on down and sign up and go fight them terrorists since you are such a tough guy.
June 12th, 2009 at 3:30 pmAmerica, pay attention. If the populist moderate wins and the entrenched theocrats and military feel threatened, there will be a response in the streets.
I won’t say it is a preview of things to come but it should be food for thought.
June 12th, 2009 at 3:32 pmHuh? They talked about AmenJihads anti-American rhetoric, meant to garner votes, some time ago. If people didnt see this Iranian election coming its their own fault.
June 12th, 2009 at 3:32 pmAmericasBack Says:
..no, actually, believe it or not, that was the Iranian President that used this slogan.
June 12th, 2009 at 3:16 pm
____________
Well, just the “we can” part. Though I heard last night that Mousavi was now using the slogan as well. Granted, my source was The Daily Show, so it could be wrong.
June 12th, 2009 at 3:33 pmhttp://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2005/11/02/the_good_news_from_iraq_is_not_fit_to_print/
June 12th, 2009 at 3:34 pmopinion piece?
June 12th, 2009 at 3:35 pmcentrist appears to equal smack dab in the center of the looney right.
June 12th, 2009 at 3:35 pmcentrist Says:
Weren’t the Iraqi elections horribly downplayed by the liberal media and liberal blogs? Now, the Iran elections are earth shattering news?
June 12th, 2009 at 3:28 pm
___________
No. The Iraqi elections were widely reported.
June 12th, 2009 at 3:37 pmFrom the notoriously biased Associated Press reporter Jennifer Loven, comes this fair and balanced dispatch on the Iraqi elections:
President Bush hailed Thursday’s voting in Iraq as “a major milestone” in establishing a democratic ally for the United States in the Middle East and moving toward the day when American troops can come home.
“The appearance of a buoyant Bush in the Oval Office alongside six smiling young Iraqis displaying purple-stained fingers was an attempt to capitalize on any positive news in Iraq.
Did the AP similarly editorialize about Sen. Joe Biden’s surprise visit and ink-stained-finger photo-ops in Iraq today?”
Didn’t think so.
June 12th, 2009 at 3:37 pmPossibly, AmericasBack but that was the result of defeat in war not back door manipulation. One could posit Germany as well on those terms.
June 12th, 2009 at 3:39 pmQuite right, dbadass. An opinion piece. From four years ago. That used the term “islamofascism” as if it meant something.
Color me convinced. Especially since this came from a “centrist”.
June 12th, 2009 at 3:39 pmdbadass Says:
——————————————————————————–
opinion piece?
Take your best shot, toughy.
June 12th, 2009 at 3:39 pmAgain I ask, why does virtually every new poster who adopts a name like “centrist” or “independent” wind up sounding like a right-winger?
Could it be that they’re actually ashamed of their right-wing views and seek to disguise them?
June 12th, 2009 at 3:40 pmI dont get the point centrist is trying to make..
June 12th, 2009 at 3:43 pmralph the wonder locust Says:
——————————————————————————–
Quite right, dbadass. An opinion piece. From four years ago.
Extra! July/August 2001
The Most Biased Name in News
Fox News Channel’s extraordinary right-wing tilt
By Seth Ackerman
————-
Have you always been a hypocrite? I didn’t see any disapproval of Think Progress using an 8 yr old opinion piece just yesterday. Care to explain?
June 12th, 2009 at 3:43 pmTake your best shot, toughy.
—
June 12th, 2009 at 3:43 pmAt what?
Or maybe, ralph, they just want to be the center of attention, independent of validity or coherency.
June 12th, 2009 at 3:44 pmActually the Iranian election doesn’t mean that much. The position of President is largely a figurehead position with little true power.
If Mahmoud Ahmadinejad did lose the election and is replaced by someone more moderate, the rhetoric will be more civil, but the true aims of Iran will not change. The only way that will change is to remove the theocrats that actually control the country from power. That is very unlikely to happen.
June 12th, 2009 at 3:46 pmcentrist Says:
dbadass Says:
——————————————————————————–
opinion piece?
Take your best shot, toughy.
***
even conservatives hate
to be called “conservative”.
…
i can’t blame them.
it’s an ugly name.
:)
June 12th, 2009 at 3:46 pmOT:
June 12th, 2009 at 3:46 pmSo anybody up for a roadtrip to go see our new buddy Roger up at Ft Drum?
Looks like ralph has left the building.
June 12th, 2009 at 3:49 pmLefty, the mullahs do have a degree of power in Iran, just as our own do. The transition of power is much more in the favor of the young Iranians taking to the streets than the old greybeards.
Sort of like here.
June 12th, 2009 at 3:49 pmFirst, when citing previous TP articles, it is common courtesy to include a LINK to the article. It demonstrates a willingness to support one’s argument and also makes clear that one is not distorting the content or tone of the original.
Second, how is it hypocritical to note that your nonexistent point was simply an opinion piece from 2005? I don’t recall commenting on the thread you mention, and in fact, I don’t even recall seeing it. Can you clarify?
June 12th, 2009 at 3:50 pmdbadass, I have a source at Ft Drum that is working on that now.
June 12th, 2009 at 3:50 pmdbadass Says:
OT:
So anybody up for a roadtrip to go see our new buddy Roger up at Ft Drum?
***
yeah, his buddies
gave him a “code red”
last night. nobody ordered it.
:|
June 12th, 2009 at 3:50 pmcentrist Says:
Looks like ralph has left the building.
…
stealing my lines a$$hole?
get your own material.
:)
June 12th, 2009 at 3:52 pmAmericasBack
June 12th, 2009 at 3:52 pmEnjoy those. Despite what Zooey may say they really aren’t just a carrier for butter.
cheers-
Fox has no credibility whatsoever as it continues to bring on ill-informed, prejudiced, hateful people like Bolton, and so many others of their guests. They are brought on to lie, smear, offer ridiculous opinions with no factual backup, and malign anyone who isn’t beloved by Fox. Sure, their audience eats it up, but research has shown Fox viewers are the most ignorant of all viewers of major networks– viewers of Stewart & Colbert are vastly better informed.
June 12th, 2009 at 4:07 pmHoodathunktick:
There will be some minor changes, but it will mostly be in the tone of the reteroic. The theocrats that actually hold power aren’t concerned by the younger voters, they still control the police, military and especially the mullahs that preach every day.
In several decades, assuming that the US changes the way the approach other countries (not calling them an Axis of Evil etc.) there might be enough changes that Iran could be viewed as a friend.
One issue we have in the US in understanding other cultures, is that we don’t have 1000’s of years of history and tradition that is prevalent in other countries especially in that part of the world. Change comes slowly in the middle east.
June 12th, 2009 at 4:10 pmLefty, maybe so. But the same can be said for using old yardsticks to measure new changes. If we assume they will follow traditional patterns, we ignore modern changes. The recent street demonstrations in Iran are totally in conflict with traditional patterns.
Knowing history is a good thing, paying attention to today is another. If the US can embrace torture and civil rights violations as a good thing with our ‘history’, can’t Iran make their own new choices?
June 12th, 2009 at 4:20 pmdelafield Says:
The greatest danger to Israel are the white, European immigrants who continue to steal land from Palestinians and then move these Palestinians into Israeli controlled refugee/concentration camps.
These days it’s a lot of Orthodox Jews in America being sent over by Zionist organizations who are emigrating to the settlements. They’re doing it on purpose, not because they need a place to live.
.
Hoodathunktick Says:
Lefty, the mullahs do have a degree of power in Iran, just as our own do.
Actually the Ayatollah system has constitutional authority over most critical government functions.
June 12th, 2009 at 4:20 pmwith apologies to joe cantwell:
looks like centrist has left the building.
June 12th, 2009 at 4:26 pmcentrist Says:
From the notoriously biased Associated Press reporter Jennifer Loven, comes this fair and balanced dispatch on the Iraqi elections:
Yo, stupid – just in case someone here hasn’t already done so, let me remind you just exactly who owns the Associated Press:
June 12th, 2009 at 4:29 pmRUPERT MURDOCH
I hardly think its fair for the US to be whining about everyone else having nukes when we have our own. I do hope this election works out well for Iran.
June 12th, 2009 at 4:35 pmwhat actually happens in Iran is immaterial to neocons. They have selected Iran as their best opportunity for war and no facts or reality are going to get in their way of advocating attacking Iran. Iran could completely disarm and allow full-time international inspections and it wouldn’t matter to neocons, they’d still be advocating for attacking Iran.
June 12th, 2009 at 4:38 pmlooks like centrist has left the building.
At a dead sprint!
June 12th, 2009 at 4:40 pmChanges do occur in all civilizations, and sometimes very rapid changes. The overthrow of the Shaw in Iran in the ’80s is an example of rapid change in their culture. What happened there is a complete change in the government. The Shaw and his people were thrown out of power completely.
The true government in Iran won’t change on this election. The people that have power still have power, just minor changes in who is the public face.
As for the US, when have we truly embraced the notion of Civil Rights? African Americans have been enslaved for about half of our history and with “Jim Crow” laws they have been subject to serious discrimination. Even today minorities are constantly harassed by police. Ever hear of “driving while black”?
When could blacks and whites legally get married? What about gay rights now? It wasn’t until 2003 when Lawrence v. Texas overturned sodomy laws that targeted gays and lesbians. One of the biggest civil rights issues today is same sex marriage. Why is that even an issue? How does it impact straight marriage?
Civil Rights abuses in the US are not quite as big of a joke as in the middle east, but pretty close. The main difference being it is more subtle here.
Now for torture, how many prisoners are subject to beatings and torture in US prisions? Remember the case of the man in New York that was sodomized by police officers a couple of years ago? Was that just a few “rogue” cops? If there were proper training and supervision, how did it happen? How many cases of torture and abuse are there against the Los Angeles police department? How many against smaller police departments across the country.
Torture and civil rights abuses in the US are nothing new. What has changed is that it is being reported in international press reports and those reports aren’t going away because the war is unpopular, not only here in the US, but around the world.
Sorry for the rant, but the US has never been innocent when it come to civil rights abuses, and has a long history of torture.
June 12th, 2009 at 4:42 pmLeftside Annie Says:
let me remind you just exactly who owns the Associated Press:
RUPERT MURDOCH
YIKES!!! I did not know that. I learn something everyday. Thanks Annie.
June 12th, 2009 at 4:43 pmElBruce says, “These days it’s a lot of Orthodox Jews in America being sent over by Zionist organizations who are emigrating to the settlements. They’re doing it on purpose, not because they need a place to live.”
Israeli real estate agents are selling stolen Palestinian land to foreign investors. The real estate agents tell the buyers that the more Jewish buyers that move onto stolen Palestinian land, the harder it will be to remove the Jews later.
Watch this Al Jazeera reporter who posed as a buyer with a hidden camera. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_BF8pbEkvs
June 12th, 2009 at 4:52 pmLeftside Annie Says
Would it be safe to say that you think 9/11 was an insibe job just like the Holocaust Museum killer did?
June 12th, 2009 at 4:54 pmcentrist, care to answer my question from #158?
how is it hypocritical to note that your nonexistent point was simply an opinion piece from 2005? I don’t recall commenting on the thread you mention, and in fact, I don’t even recall seeing it. Can you clarify?
Thanks.
June 12th, 2009 at 4:57 pmcenter of what, I wonder?
June 12th, 2009 at 4:57 pmOh come on ralph. How likely is that. The centrist seeks attention not dialogue. You know that
June 12th, 2009 at 4:58 pmEver notice how when something happens that proves beyond any shadow of a doubt that the left has a better approach, the wingnuts switch to saying it “doesn’t matter?” That’s their last line of defense, the one they use when they’ve been nailed dead to rights.
.
pluege Says:
what actually happens in Iran is immaterial to neocons. They have selected Iran as their best opportunity for war…
Well, they need to learn how to put away their last set of toys before they get out some more. They’re leaving a big mess. I seriously think neocons are just people who never passed kindergarten.
.
Leftside Annie Says:
let me remind you just exactly who owns the Associated Press:
RUPERT MURDOCH
Not entirely, but he is on the board of directors.
June 12th, 2009 at 5:00 pmWait, I thought the neocons wanted to spread democracy? Was that all a front or something? Do they actually have a different, unspoken goal?
June 12th, 2009 at 5:03 pmDamn. Has centrist left the building again?
dbadass, I fear you may be correct.
June 12th, 2009 at 5:08 pmfletc3her Says:
Wait, I thought the neocons wanted to spread democracy? Was that all a front or something? Do they actually have a different, unspoken goal?
Yes, it’s to kill everybody different from them. Now that they’re currently lumping themselves in with the neo-Nazis, it’s becoming easier for them to say it out loud.
June 12th, 2009 at 5:09 pmBolton — who has long demonized Ahmadinejad as a significant threat to U.S. national security — argued to Fox’s Bill Hemmer that an Ahmadinejad defeat would not change Iran’s foreign policy because such issues are handled by the Iran’s religious leaders
So this admittance means that they have only been using Ahmadinejad as a whipping boy only to whip the American people’s fear into a frenzy in the last 6 years? Is that what he is admitting to?
Wanker.
June 12th, 2009 at 5:24 pmIsn’t there a flyer out there about “Democracy, Our Way or the Highway.”
June 12th, 2009 at 5:26 pmSo now buying a lot on a West Bank Settlement is sort of like buying swampland in Florida? A batch of Spanish Prisoners? The Brooklyn Bridge?
June 12th, 2009 at 5:34 pmFareed Zakaria challenges the Notion that IRAN wants to build a Nuclear bomb:
http://www.newsweek.com/id/199147
Over the last five years, senior Iranian officials at every level have repeatedly asserted that they do not intend to build nuclear weapons. President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has quoted the regime’s founding father, Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini, who asserted that such weapons were “un-Islamic.” The country’s Supreme Leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, issued a fatwa in 2004 describing the use of nuclear weapons as immoral. In a subsequent sermon, he declared that “developing, producing or stockpiling nuclear weapons is FORBIDDEN under Islam.” Last year Khamenei reiterated all these points after meeting with the head of the International Atomic Energy Agency, Mohamed ElBaradei.
Now, of course, they could all be lying. But it seems odd for a regime that derives its legitimacy from its fidelity to Islam to declare constantly that these weapons are un-Islamic if it intends to develop them. It would be far shrewder to stop reminding people of Khomeini’s statements and stop issuing new fatwas against nukes.
June 12th, 2009 at 5:50 pmYes, but they both agreed that Salman Rushdie should be murdered.
June 12th, 2009 at 6:38 pmand if all the TP posters agree Alejandro has a cranial/anal problem, does that mean he will do something to rectify the situation?
June 12th, 2009 at 6:50 pmAppears to be a fixed election filled with corruption. Looks like the neo-cons got this one right.
June 12th, 2009 at 6:59 pmWho cares what this war mongering walrus thinks about anything…
…it’s not like there is anything other than “Bomb the crap out of everyone else” on his mind.
Fcuk the Republic Fascist Party
June 12th, 2009 at 7:00 pmIranian youth are having a sexual revolution. That’s a lot of energy. If no nation threatens them in such a way that it makes sense to set aside the move toward individual freedom for the sake of nationalism, then I trust that they’ll move forward at a pace that is workable in their society.
June 12th, 2009 at 7:03 pmno kidding. surprised no one has bombed john bolton yet.
Or better yet, let’s just fly a b-52 over Iraq and drop him out of the bomb bay instead of a warhead.
June 12th, 2009 at 7:32 pmwhoops typo, IRAN not iraq
June 12th, 2009 at 7:33 pmAlejandro Says:
“The thing to remember is that despite buzz to the contrary, there are key foreign policy differences between Ahmadinejad, who does not support international talks regarding the Iranian nuclear program, and Mousavi, who does.”
Yes, but they both agreed that Salman Rushdie should be murdered.
That is condemnable, of course. But it’s not the same thing as creating nuclear weapons of mass destruction.
June 12th, 2009 at 7:45 pmAlejandro Says:
Yes, but they both agreed that Salman Rushdie should be murdered.
Well, your not a proper Muslim if don’t want Rushdie to die.
June 12th, 2009 at 7:49 pmNaturally presidential elections in Iran don’t mean anything to Neocons because their ultimate goal is to bomb Iran.
Latest exist polls are showing that AhmadiNajad is winning decisively,almost 2 to 1 against his opponent Mousavi.
June 12th, 2009 at 8:04 pmThe sheep are those who refuse to speak out and protest and let their voices be heard when the opportunity presents itself.
Then, and now, I find check out lines in grocery stores and waiting lines in banks to be my favorite place to bring up the trash that’s taking place.
Anytime there’s an excuse to mention anything to do with elections you have a good opportunity to speak about the “Stolen election in 2000 when the Supreme Court appointed george w. bush to become the next (p)Resident in the White House.
In grocery stores you have people pulling money out of their wallets to buy food. You can twist that situation into talk about the rising cost of food, rent, gasoline, health insurance.
In banks where they have these big screen displays with the volume turned down and tuned into MSNBC or faux news, it’s a great place to pounce when the bailouts come up on screen.
I find many people appreciate the comments I make, some nodding their heads in agreement, some just smiling, a few are willing to start up a serious conversation. You can tell who (especially now, as the economy continues to sink) are republicans and neo-conservative supporters. They usually keep their eyes averted or downcast. But I guess that’s because I start out using a speaking voice that’s obvioulsy too loud to be intended as a conversational tone of voice with the next person in line.
Bars are the one place I don’t think I’d use this technique in. Partly because the Owners would be getting upset, and partly because the same right wingers who avoid public confrontations in other public places like the banks might just as likely become a dumbass who tosses a beer bottle at you, as they would a boring drunk who starts regurgitating talking points with slurred speech and drops of saliva blowing in your direction.
That’s some of the kinds of things I do besides the fax speed dial numbers in the office for senators and representatives.
Whenever I have the chance, whatever issue I may have been talking about, I always try to get in the point that the only thing that matters right now is sending the bush administration to the Hague where the international community can try them for the War Crimes and the Crimes Against Humanity they committed. Anything short of that leaves the stage set for a bigger disaster the next time a petty dictator / corporate puppet gets installed in the Oval Office.
June 12th, 2009 at 9:00 pmBadger Says:
The country’s Supreme Leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, issued a fatwa in 2004 describing the use of nuclear weapons as immoral. In a subsequent sermon, he declared that “developing, producing or stockpiling nuclear weapons is FORBIDDEN under Islam.”
Expecting them to go against something like that would be about as ignorant as expecting Orthodox Jews to go against a Talmudic restriction.
Either fanatical Muslims follow their religion to the letter, or they don’t. You can’t have it both ways.
.
Alejandro Says:
Yes, but they both agreed that Salman Rushdie should be murdered.
A completely different fatwa. To say that Iran is secretly pursuing nuclear weapons is the same as saying that Iran would let Rushdie off the hook, regardless of what they say.
June 14th, 2009 at 12:35 amen son videolar
June 14th, 2009 at 12:36 pmen son videolar