Cornyn Cites Inaccurate Powerline Blog Post To Claim That The Public Health Insurance Isn’t Popular
Cornyn Cites Inaccurate Powerline Blog Post To Claim That The Public Health Insurance Isn’t Popular
Yesterday, the New York Times and CBS News (NYT/CBS) released a new poll showing broad support for health care reform, with 72 percent of respondents favoring the creation of a publicly-funded health insurance option. The conservative blog Powerline immediately took issue with the poll, arguing (wrongly) that the sample was skewed because 48 percent of respondents reported voting for President Obama last fall, while just 25 percent of respondents reported voting for Sen. John McCain (R-AZ). Powerline compared the NYT/CBS figures to the actual election results in which Obama won 53 percent of the vote and McCain won 46 percent.
Sen. John Cornyn (R-TX), apparently convinced by Powerline’s argument, cited the blog in two cable news appearances this afternoon to deny that there was any significant public support for the creation of a public health insurance option. “With all due respect to the New York Times and CBS, this polling sample was skewed,” he told MSNBC’s Andrea Mitchell. Similarly, on Fox News Cornyn said, “I think there’s been some particularly good blog coverage like Powerline blog talking how that sample was so skewed as to be meaningless.” Watch it:
Unfortunately for Cornyn, Powerline is wrong to conclude the sample is skewed based on the data they cited. As Slate’s Christopher Beam explained last week, the disparity between last fall’s actual vote tallies and the results reported by NYT/CBS yesterday comes down to respondents being too embarrassed to admit that they didn’t vote:
The main explanation for the gap, say pollsters, is people who didn’t vote at all saying they did. These people tend to say they picked the winning candidate. Just look at the Times and Journal polls, where about 80 percent of respondents said they voted in the 2008 election. In fact, turnout was about 61 percent. (A 20 percent gap is pretty standard.) Pollsters attribute the disparity to the social discomfort of having to admit, even to a stranger on the phone, that you didn’t vote.
Further as Beam explains, “Retroactive vote reporting tends to be a proxy for popularity. … In a 2006 NYT poll, more people said they voted for John Kerry in 2004 than voted for Bush.” If Powerline wanted a more reliable indicator of who was in the NYT/CBS sample, they could have looked at the proportion of respondents that identified themselves as liberal (27 percent) and compared that to the proportion that identified themselves as conservative (29 percent). Likewise, Powerline could have noted that the sample was 24 percent Republican and 38 percent Democrat — a fairly normal party identification advantage for Democrats at the moment.
To buttress their claim that the NYT/CBS poll was inaccurate, Powerline linked to a recent Rasmussen poll that found comparatively little support for the creation of a public health insurance option, with just 41 percent of Americans supporting such a move. But as Nate Silver documented last week, it is the Rasmussen poll — not the NYT/CBS poll — that falls outside typical levels of support for a public health insurance found in other recent surveys:
Powerline’s concerns about the accuracy of the latest NYT/CBS poll are unfounded, but that likely won’t keep Cornyn from continuing to refer to Powerline’s discussion as “particularly good blog coverage.”
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When all else fails, bluster loudly.
And hope the 70 odd percent of Americans who are tired of suffering will still vote for your sorry azz.
June 22nd, 2009 at 7:02 pmAll of you Senators and Representatives who listen to the lobbyists? They don’t vote. Gather your bucks while you can.
June 22nd, 2009 at 7:09 pmThe main explanation for the gap, say pollsters, is people who didn’t vote at all saying they did. These people tend to say they picked the winning candidate.
So we are not to trust the people polled on what candidate they voted for, but we are to trust that they want public healthcare based on answers from this poll? Nice try.
June 22nd, 2009 at 7:11 pmJohnM. go cuddle a duck. If you can find one that will have you.
June 22nd, 2009 at 7:13 pmGood start…
Thinking progress, that’s good…
Now why is it the dems that, by all reports, are backing off the public option?
These diary at KOS gets it:
Coryn might be citing inaccurate posts, but, by all indications, obama and the dems are going to give cornyn exactly what he wants.
So who is worse – the person that climbs trees and screams lies or the folks that quietly use those same lies to stab you in the back?
June 22nd, 2009 at 7:13 pmrepublicans hate facts Says:
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JohnM Says:
The main explanation for the gap, say pollsters, is people who didn’t vote at all saying they did. These people tend to say they picked the winning candidate.
So we are not to trust the people polled on what candidate they voted for, but we are to trust that they want public healthcare based on answers from this poll? Nice try.
ROTFL!! Ah, poor TEABAGGER can’t face the *SCIENCE* of POLLING so the DEAR PRINCESS throws UP HER HANDS and *WHINES* NICE TRY!!
Oh, PRINCESS, just because THE MAJORITY of AMERICANS *DISAGREE* with you is NO REASON for you TO BE SO B*TCH! What’s wrong, not gotten any lately? ;)
Sorry buddy, you can’t have it both ways. You can’t say that some answers of this poll are not reliable while others are. By the way isn’t Sponge Bob on right now, go back to your cartoons so the adults can talk.
June 22nd, 2009 at 7:14 pmAnd just why are the trolls (and the Righty types) claiming in loud voices that the voice of the people is not to be trusted?
Run scared, run hard trolly types. Judgment day is coming.
June 22nd, 2009 at 7:16 pmJohnM
June 22nd, 2009 at 7:16 pmI owned you and you ran away? What gives?
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dbadass Says:
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JohnM
I owned you and you ran away? What gives?
Don’t remember that.
June 22nd, 2009 at 7:17 pmCornyn Cites Inaccurate Powerline Blog Post To Claim That The Public Health Insurance Isn’t Popular
– - Cornyn could have saved himself the trouble of referencing a rightwing blog by just saying, “Rush is against it.”
June 22nd, 2009 at 7:18 pmAnd John Cornyn is on the Finance Committee!! How do people like him get voted into office?
June 22nd, 2009 at 7:18 pmFor real if you don’t dig it why not split? Can you atleast answer that?
June 22nd, 2009 at 7:22 pm—
Still no answer? Shall I answered it for you?
Yes. It’s a pretty innocuous question so there would be no reason to lie. Do you have a reason why they might lie.
June 22nd, 2009 at 7:22 pmrepublicans hate facts Says:
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JohnM Says:
Sorry buddy, you can’t have it both ways. You can’t say that some answers of this poll are not reliable while others are. By the way isn’t Sponge Bob on right now, go back to your cartoons so the adults can talk.
PROJECT MUCH? This SCIENTIFIC POLL and METHODOLOGY were SPELLED OUT in the POST BY RYAN. If you’re TOO INBRED or TOO ILLITERATE to READ THAT it isn’t “MY” fault, it’s your INBRED PARENTS.
The issue we’re DISCUSSING is the “METHODOLOGY” of the poll, princess.
Sponge Bob? Well that certainly FITS your DEVELOPMENTAL LEVEL, I’m not SURPRISED that’s WHAT YOU’D THINK OF…
When you’re DONE HAVING YOUR HEAD up your OWN *SS PRINCESS, we *ADULTS* will stop MAKING FUN OF YOU for your IDIOCY and CHILDISH NONSENSE…
This was a *SCIENTIFIC* POLL, but if you TEABAGISTAN RETARDS are too f*KKKing stupid to KNOW IT – well that’s EXPECTED… ;)
Your posts are so amusing. I’m surprised your mommy allows you near her computer. As for your scientific poll, back to my original point. Are you saying that we should not believe respondents when they say who they voted for in the last election, but believe the respondents on their answers to whether or not they agree with public healthcare?
June 22nd, 2009 at 7:23 pmThe only option fascists have is to lie when their agenda brings the population to the suffering threshold, to the point they start to pay attention as to why they are suffering so much and so needlessly.
Considering one sixth of our population has no health insurance and about a third either lack insurance or have a scam of a for-profit policy, I think it is safe to say at least 100 million of us are in favor of single-payer not-for-profit healthcare.
The public option, not only won’t happen, it wouldn’t be helpful either. If people are against it, I assume the above must be why, because I assure you they aren’t voting for the status quo when 60% of bankruptcies result from over-priced medical bills, and 75% of those that went bankrupt had a scam of a for-profit health insurance policy when they did.
Nothing will change until real lobbyist reform occurs.
June 22nd, 2009 at 7:24 pmNever said he was for it – said that his plan was wishy-washy and many questioned its integrity from the get-go.
He did say healthcare was a “right” in the debates and used it to browbeat mclame.
Now they are selling us out – reports are we will not get a public option nor universal coverage. The dem plan is morphing into the one mclame put forward and voters widely rejected in 2008 and now reject 3-4.
That’s some pretty serious hypocrisy, buddy – especially when it is done in the name of “bipartisenship”.
Like elections don’t have consequences and the will of the people be damned. This is gonna come back and bite obama and dem leadership BIG time.
Go ahead and support this hypocrisy for now if you want – it will not be a tenable position in the long run.
June 22nd, 2009 at 7:25 pmJohnM Says:
The main explanation for the gap, say pollsters, is people who didn’t vote at all saying they did. These people tend to say they picked the winning candidate.
So we are not to trust the people polled on what candidate they voted for, but we are to trust that they want public healthcare based on answers from this poll? Nice try.
Follow the link above the quoted portion. They’re talking about a different question, where far more people say they voted for Obama than actually could have.
Cornryn is explaining this as evidence that the sample is heavily skewed; Beam offers another explanation.
.
JohnM Says:
Sorry buddy, you can’t have it both ways. You can’t say that some answers of this poll are not reliable while others are.
Sure you can. None of the other questions asked by the poll are out of whack; only that one question stands out. This happens all the times in polls. If only one question gives a result outlying known data, then the problem isn’t with the sample, it’s with that question.
If you say the entire poll is skewed so heavily, then you have to throw out all of the other questions and leave only that one, so you’re doing the same thing. Either way you’re saying “this answer is right so that answer is wrong.” The difference is that the way you and Cornryn see it is the way you want to see it, not the way that people who know what they’re doing analyze it.
June 22nd, 2009 at 7:25 pmAnswer the damn question Another Joe because it is going to haunt you till you do…
June 22nd, 2009 at 7:26 pmHoodathunktick
Will of IRANIAN voters they proclaim to trust. Will of AMERICAN voters they disdain.
Of course, right now, they are not our biggest problems.
Even worse are the dems that now proclaim there is no support for reach change because lying republican liars said so.
But some here want to defend the dishonest rhetoric of obama and the dems.
June 22nd, 2009 at 7:27 pmRasmussen seems to be the outlier on every subject and yet conservatives quote it all the time.
June 22nd, 2009 at 7:28 pmGood, jeff, when you cannot advance a real argument or statement on its merits – go with the suicide joke!
What is that ghandi said: First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.
Suicide is always good for a few laughs and then you can go back to defending the folks with little “d’s” after their names for capitulating to cornyn.
Easier to use the suicide joke than to explain why coryn is a “liar” for using blog post, but obama and dems are good for capitulating to the lie.
June 22nd, 2009 at 7:29 pmNote also in the Slate article, the same skew on the question “did you vote for Obama” vs. the election results is showing up in a lot of other polls as well.
June 22nd, 2009 at 7:30 pmFor real if you don’t dig it why not split? Can you atleast answer that?
June 22nd, 2009 at 7:30 pm—
Let’s go. Failure to address this simple question is really gonna blow your concern scheme. Is it too hard? Shall I rephrase it?
Easier to bullshit around than answer a simple question…
June 22nd, 2009 at 7:31 pmTo dismiss the poll based on the skewed results of the ‘who did you vote for’ question is quite ballsy actually.
For one thing the reasons Slate gives for the statistically improbable answers to ‘who did you vote for’ question are very possibly incomplete.
They basically put the discrepancy down to respondents lying. Really? That’s all they could come up with? No possibility of vote rigging at all? None? It’s not even remotely possible that Obama actually did win by a larger margin than we were told?
I love the way Republicans cite poll results when it suits them while dismissing poll results when they’re not convenient to their arguments.
June 22nd, 2009 at 7:32 pmNat Says:
Rasmussen seems to be the outlier on every subject and yet conservatives quote it all the time.
As I recall, Rasmussen built into their samplying system an assumption that the U.S. is continually growing more and more conservative based on a trend they noticed in 1998 – 2000 – 2002 – 2004. However, I believe they’re continuing that trend as if it didn’t start to reverse in 2006 – 2008. Which means according to them, we’re all wearing Swastika armbands and hiding in bomb shelters while beating our children with bibles.
June 22nd, 2009 at 7:33 pmAnother Joe is some gonna to reside on my shelf. I wonder which tool I will have to remove to make room…
June 22nd, 2009 at 7:33 pmrepublicans hate facts Says:
BIAS is part of how *SCIENTIFIC* polling works. It’s incorporated both INTO the MARGIN OF ERROR and in the METHODOLOGY USED to create the SAMPLING GROUP…
But a *PRINCESS* CHILD like yourself WOULDN’T UNDERSTAND *MATH*, or *SCIENCE* or *STATISTICS* since they didn’t come from your BIBLE QUACK SCHOOL… So DON’T HURT your FAT UGLY LITTLE HEAD trying to UNDERSTAND THEM… Just go along and PLAY WITH YOUR GUNS like a GOOD LITTLE TRAILER TRASH MORON..
You have yet to answer the very simple question.
Are you saying that we should not believe respondents when they say who they voted for in the last election, but believe the respondents on their answers to whether or not they agree with public healthcare?
June 22nd, 2009 at 7:36 pmrepublicans hate facts Says:
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Nat Says:
Rasmussen seems to be the outlier on every subject and yet conservatives quote it all the time.
That’s because Rasmussen is the Fox of polling. They don’t bother with facts, science or methodology just like Fox doesn’t bother with journalism, honesty or integrity. Occasionally both of them get an item right, but it’s usually an accident.
http://www.fordham.edu/images/academics/graduate_schools/gsas/elections_and_campaign_/poll%20accuracy%20in%20the%202008%20presidential%20election.pdf
The following list ranks the 23 organizations by the accuracy of their final, national preelection
June 22nd, 2009 at 7:39 pmpolls (as reported on pollster.com).
1. Rasmussen (11/1-3)**
1. Pew (10/29-11/1)**
2. YouGov/Polimetrix (10/18-11/1)
3. Harris Interactive (10/20-27)
4. GWU (Lake/Tarrance) (11/2-3)*
5. Diageo/Hotline (10/31-11/2)*
5. ARG (10/25-27)*
6. CNN (10/30-11/1)
6. Ipsos/McClatchy (10/30-11/1)
7. DailyKos.com (D)/Research 2000 (11/1-3)
8. AP/Yahoo/KN (10/17-27)
9. Democracy Corps (D) (10/30-11/2)
10. FOX (11/1-2)
11. Economist/YouGov (10/25-27)
12. IBD/TIPP (11/1-3)
13. NBC/WSJ (11/1-2)
14. ABC/Post (10/30-11/2)
15. Marist College (11/3)
16. CBS (10/31-11/2)
17. Gallup (10/31-11/2)
18. Reuters/ C-SPAN/ Zogby (10/31-11/3)
19. CBS/Times (10/25-29)
20. Newsweek (10/22-23)
No, stupid troll. The question that should be asked is what people, regardless of party affiliation, really want. The overwhelming majority of Americans, regardless of party affiliation, want health care reform. One can play with the data all one wants and the result doesn’t change.
And personally? I don’t give a rat’s ass what anyone stupid, dishonest, oblivious, hateful, and evil enough to admit being a GOoPer has to say about anything. They had their chance and phucked up everything they touched. Anyone who can’t see that really has no place in a reasoned debate. The whole damn bunch of ‘em should be strapped down and medicated.
June 22nd, 2009 at 7:43 pmWhere the hell is that fraud Another Joe?
June 22nd, 2009 at 7:44 pmNot your monkey
Besides, more people are seeing the importance of not letting obama capitualte to the lying liars.
You speak for nobody – I will post here because so many agree. You may think you are god of TP, but folks that have been reading the thread over time know otherwise.
Change will come when people demand it – join us when you are done defending those that quietly acquiesce to lying liars like coryny.
But don’t blame him – blame the folks that sell you out because of his lies.
June 22nd, 2009 at 7:45 pmSlate even went so far as to give a subset of the ‘respondents MUST have lied when they said they voted for Obama’ reason for the discrepancy listing ‘forgetfulness’.
Really? That’s not stretching things at all? As in ‘I thought I voted but maybe I didn’t actually make it to the voting booth after all’? Or would that be as in I voted for McCain but for some reason recall voting for Obama instead? How many meds are THOSE people on?!
They went on to say that people often cannot recall when they visited their doctor. Really? Going to the doctor carries the same weight in their presumably drug-addled brains as voting for the President? Something that only happens once every four years?!
Not buying it!
June 22nd, 2009 at 7:45 pmpete – well said, and it would be nice if obama and dem leadership quit listening to them too.
But for some around here, that is asking for too much.
June 22nd, 2009 at 7:46 pmFor real if you don’t dig it why not split? Can you atleast answer that?
June 22nd, 2009 at 7:46 pm–
Can’t do it or won’t do it? This isn’t going to go away so you might as wellmake something up…
To put it another way, I think it’s more likely that the poll results are accurate and that most of those people DID vote for Obama.
Therefore, I’m concluding, 72% of the poll respondents who said that they favor a public option is probably accurate.
Public option please!
I know I could use it, like right now.
June 22nd, 2009 at 7:47 pmDear Republican,
Lies in 2009 won’t “cut the mustard” any longer. After being forced to listen to eight long years of lies from Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and the whole Republican gang, folks are just no longer in the mood to listen to your falsehoods. If you can’t stop yourself from lying again, trying just shutting your trap. You could try being the “strong, silent type,” although you would then have to give up “twittering.”
Yours truly,
Oval123
June 22nd, 2009 at 7:47 pmThe real fraud are the folks like you that want to blame dem capitulation on the marginalized lying liars with “r’s” after their name.
But don’t expect you to understand those big words.
The biggest fraud of all is the folks that ran on “Yes We Can” and then said NO WE CAN’T BECAUSE THE REBLICANS SAY SO!
Billions for banks, record bonuses
Billions for illegal wars, war crimes, and crimes against humanity
Billions for the military industrial complex.
Billions for GM
Billions for wall street
BUT NOT HEALTH CARE OPTIONS FOR YOU!
Now that is fraud, buddy…
June 22nd, 2009 at 7:48 pmLook is the Repukes end up blocking Universal health care, come 2010 they are goners We can pickup 20-30 in the house and another 6 in the senate. That will give us a Progressive Majority and we can have free health care.
June 22nd, 2009 at 7:49 pmdbass – people aren’t exactly marchin’ behind you in lockstep, not even with your funny suicide jokes.
Perhaps they are afraid of stepping in your droppings…
You can’t win criticizing cornyn for lying but supporting obama and dem leadership for acting on the lies.
June 22nd, 2009 at 7:49 pmWhat you posted actually proves my point. Rasmussen was in agreement with all the other polling organizations during the presidential election but now they’re grossly off. They’re skewing their results.
June 22nd, 2009 at 7:51 pmAnother Joe is afraid to handle a simple question. Another Joe is a fraud. Another Joe will regret being such a fake. Another Joe should be ignored by all by myself until I am done with them…
June 22nd, 2009 at 7:51 pmNat,
June 22nd, 2009 at 7:51 pmRasmussen is Pro Fascist. We should investigate them.
Another Joe is so lame Another Joe can’t figure out that I made no suicide jokes. Another Joe is clearly a f uck up in addition to being a fraud…
Answer the question!
June 22nd, 2009 at 7:52 pmcoryn lies = bad
obama/dem leadership inaction based on those same lies = good
June 22nd, 2009 at 7:52 pmFor real if you don’t dig it why not split? Can you atleast answer that?
June 22nd, 2009 at 7:52 pm—
Still no answer pretend guy?
What reason would they have to lie?
June 22nd, 2009 at 7:52 pmNat Says:
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Are you saying that we should not believe respondents when they say who they voted for in the last election, but believe the respondents on their answers to whether or not they agree with public healthcare?
-JohnM
What reason would they have to lie?
I agree, why would they lie about who they voted for?
June 22nd, 2009 at 7:53 pmnot your monkey – owe the likes of you nothing. Not worth my time.
Now the folks that “catapult” the lies of the repugs and the likes of cornyn by proclaiming “NO YOU CAN’T” on healthcare…
That’s another issue and one that I will blog about daily.
June 22nd, 2009 at 7:54 pmLover of Progress – it won’t be “free” of course. As Robert Heinlein likes to say, “There ain’t no such thing as a free lunch”.
Either we’ll pay through our taxes or we’ll pay for it ourselves, directly or indirectly through an employer, or a combination of the two.
But it won’t be free.
But that’s okay, thinking otherwise is unrealistic. I just want it to be available and affordable.
June 22nd, 2009 at 7:54 pmAnother Joe spends all day pissing and moaning but can’t explain why? Another Joe is a poser seeking attention. Another Joe does not believe what Another Joe claims to…
June 22nd, 2009 at 7:54 pmNot worth my time.
June 22nd, 2009 at 7:56 pm— Ah the whine of the pussy that knows that all that read this knows they have been outgamed. Just lay down you king becuase you can’t win my little fake friend. Read every thread you post at.Nobody is buying your charade.
Nat Says:
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JohnM Says:
republicans hate facts Says:
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Nat Says:
Rasmussen seems to be the outlier on every subject and yet conservatives quote it all the time.
That’s because Rasmussen is the Fox of polling. They don’t bother with facts, science or methodology just like Fox doesn’t bother with journalism, honesty or integrity. Occasionally both of them get an item right, but it’s usually an accident.
What you posted actually proves my point. Rasmussen was in agreement with all the other polling organizations during the presidential election but now they’re grossly off. They’re skewing their results.
How does it prove your point, they were not in agreement with other polls they were dead on while others (like NY Times that overestimated Obama’s strength) had very different figures. Why would they skew their results now but not during the election?
June 22nd, 2009 at 7:57 pmI am sure Cornyn is correct. Americans love being one heart attack away from the brink of bankruptcy. We are proud to pay at least twice as much for health care than sane countries. We are worried sick that health management eco’s may lose their 4th or 5th house.
June 22nd, 2009 at 7:59 pmrepublicans hate facts Says:
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JohnM Says:
How does it prove your point, they were not in agreement with other polls they were dead on while others (like NY Times that overestimated Obama’s strength) had very different figures. Why would they skew their results now but not during the election?
It PROVES THE POINT because they are *SKEWED* relative to both the FINDINGS and the POLLING METHODOLOGY – you IGNORANT INBRED MORON…
*SCIENCE* is definitely not something the TAUGHT YOU IN BIBLE QUACK SCHOOL is it PRINCESS?
And they chose to skew after the election because?
Also, still waiting on an answer on this one. Maybe you can get to it during your cartoon commercials.
Are you saying that we should not believe respondents when they say who they voted for in the last election, but believe the respondents on their answers to whether or not they agree with public healthcare?
June 22nd, 2009 at 8:01 pmAs always, I apologize to the thoughtful folks here. I take no pleasure in being forced to call out the fakes, frauds, and posers.
June 22nd, 2009 at 8:01 pmAccording to the poll cited at healthcarereform.gov
FWIW, I think some reforms should be put in place before the public option is implemented. Don’t want the industry to get entrenched with new public money and old habits. Every reasonable thing done to curb waste and inefficiency will make the public option more viable.
June 22nd, 2009 at 8:02 pmExactly, mary – it isn’t an issue about how much it costs, its an issue over:
1. Acknowledging access (unversal coverage)
2. Finding options to deliver that access — private insurance companies have failed miserably and created this mess.
It isn’t even about whether we can afford it. Pre-election, obama proclaimed healthcare crises was behind all the other economic issues we face.
Today – he supports spending BILLIONS AND BILLIONS on those other economic problems and appears to now be saying we cannot afford to address the root cause. Many of those billions, though some “slip up” cannot even be accounted for!!!!!!
Why this hypocrisy deserves no coverage here, I can’t say.
June 22nd, 2009 at 8:02 pm——————————————————————————–
republicans hate facts Says:
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JohnM Says:
I agree, why would they lie about who they voted for?
Read the ORIGINAL POST, it’s ALREADY ANSWERED and an *UNDERSTOOD* PHENOMENON in POLLING – DUM BASS TEABAGGER.
Again your premise bases that a respondent would lie in one instance but not another. Get back to your cartoons because you clearly aren’t equipped to discuss grown up stuff.
June 22nd, 2009 at 8:03 pmSorry, that’s healthreform.gov. Am a little sleep deprived today.
June 22nd, 2009 at 8:03 pmrepublicans hate facts Says:
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JohnM Says:
republicans hate facts Says:
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Nat Says:
Rasmussen seems to be the outlier on every subject and yet conservatives quote it all the time.
That’s because Rasmussen is the Fox of polling. They don’t bother with facts, science or methodology just like Fox doesn’t bother with journalism, honesty or integrity. Occasionally both of them get an item right, but it’s usually an accident.
http://www.fordham.edu/images/academics/graduate_schools/gsas/elections_and_campaign_/poll%20accuracy%20in%20the%202008%20presidential%20election.pdf
The following list ranks the 23 organizations by the accuracy of their final, national preelection
polls (as reported on pollster.com).
1. Rasmussen (11/1-3)**
You missed the part where it said “THEY OCCASIONALLY GET IT RIGHT BY ACCIDENT” did you PRINCESS?
Of COURSE NOT! That would require you to NOT BE AN INBRED MORON from TEABAGISTAN..
Look it up bud, they were also right on during the 2004 election. Meanwhile NY Times has a clear history of being skewed, just like they did in the last election. But you keep using them as the correct one.
June 22nd, 2009 at 8:05 pmwiley – but NOTHING in the past that was ever put in place to “fix” the problems with private payer has worked.
Are you old enough to remember when it was HMOs that were gonna be the answer?
American’s got pushed into those and then the private companies had more power over doctors to mandate what care could be provide – and it certainly did not reduce costs.
How can you say that a miserable group with a long track record of failure like the insurance industry deserves more chances to get it right?
June 22nd, 2009 at 8:06 pmRe=Thugs are Sociopathic Liars. Cornyn just helps prove the point.
June 22nd, 2009 at 8:07 pm*
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republicans hate facts Says:
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JohnM Says:
And they chose to skew after the election because?
ASK THEM? I care LESS about their MOTIVATIONS than their INCONSISTENCY and lack of PROPER METHODOLOGY on the POLL CITED ABOVE.
It could be because the Health Care industry funded it. It could be because the Conservatives are trying to *SWAY* populations with skewed polls. I don’t give a sh*t *WHY*, only that they are the OUTLIER and this particular poll by them has been criticized by *SCIENTIFIC POLLING* professionals.
JohnM Says:
Also, still waiting on an answer on this one. Maybe you can get to it during your cartoon commercials.
As opposed to your DUM BASS *COMMERCIAL* POST that *IGNORES* the *FACT* that RASMUSSEN is *ALONE* in both its METHODOLOGIES and *FINDINGS* ON THIS?
JohnM Says:
Are you saying that we should not believe respondents when they say who they voted for in the last election, but believe the respondents on their answers to whether or not they agree with public healthcare?
I’m SAYING that you’re an INBRED that doesn’t know sh*t about how *SCIENTIFIC* POLLING works, and that you’ve NOT SHOWN ANY CONCEPT for what you’re DISCUSSING. PRINCESS…
Now GO PLAY WITH YOUR BARBIES and let the *ADULTS* have a conversation. Ok PRINCESS?
Still unable to answer the simple yes or no question. Typical behavior of a child. Are you going to start holding your breath and stomping your feet next?
Are you saying that we should not believe respondents when they say who they voted for in the last election, but believe the respondents on their answers to whether or not they agree with public healthcare?
June 22nd, 2009 at 8:07 pmAnother Joe won’t respond because Another Joe knows Another Joe is trapped. Another Joe should be offered no decency until Another Joe gives up the charade…
June 22nd, 2009 at 8:08 pmI agree, why would they lie about who they voted for?
I voted for Nader in 2000 and I told anyone who asked that I voted for Gore. I didn’t feel like being blamed for Bush’s presidency.
And most people don’t want to admit they didn’t vote. They may feel embarrassed that they didn’t. Second, Americans may feel if they say they didn’t vote their opinions may not count. I ignore people’s complaints with our gov’t if they say they didn’t vote.
June 22nd, 2009 at 8:08 pmd-@ss learns from his mentors well.
They say, “I have no choice but to water down health reform to give you john mclame’s plan that voters overwhelmingly rejected in 2008 and now reject 3 to 4.
He says, “I have no choice but to flame a person for questioning why cornyn’s lies are blog worthy and democrats using those lies to neuter real change is good.”
Please – DON’T MAKE ME DO THIS!!!!!!!!!!!! The last excuse of scoundrels!
June 22nd, 2009 at 8:08 pmI think it’s safe to say that the republicans will always lie first or cling to a lie just to make themselves feel better.
June 22nd, 2009 at 8:09 pmYou are dodging the question:
So how is cornyn’s lies about healthcare bad, but it is OK for dems to use those same types of lies and proclaim there is no support for meaningful change.
Why is screaming lies wrong and quietly acting on the same lies, when you ran on a platform of change & “Yes We Can!”, right?
June 22nd, 2009 at 8:09 pmAnother Joe,
June 22nd, 2009 at 8:12 pmObama never says a lie.
He is the most honest man ever.
How dare you insult my Commander in Chief.
You are a traitor.
Perhaps JohnM would care to read the Nate Silver article linked above — but probably not, especially since it specifically deals with the Rasmussen question.
The most significant factor — conveniently being ignored by JohnM — is that the Rasmussen poll is a major outlier among six. The other five are very consistent with one another, and Rasmussen is in fact known to have a Republican bias.
Polling people about an issue is entirely different than asking them who they plan to vote for, and the structure and ordering of the questions can have a huge effect on the results.
June 22nd, 2009 at 8:12 pmKay – we all know that – been documented here for years. Been the main topic of most threads for more than one week.
But what about the people that use the lies as excuses to sell us out? Aren’t they also telling the same lie?
There is overwhelming support for real health reform, actually has been for years. Now obama and dems seem to be saying there is not enough support.
Why can’t they come out and stand with the vast majority of Americans? Why have they decided to take the side of the lying repugs?
June 22nd, 2009 at 8:12 pmAnother Joe
Would you like to be honest and tell the good folks why you are being flamed? It has nothing to do with Cornyn now does it. I will grind you into the ground and you know it… This is about you being a fraud. Answer the question….
Why do you stay around when all you do is piss and moan?
You subtle attempt to switch gear isn’t going to fly…
June 22nd, 2009 at 8:12 pmrepublicans hate facts ,
June 22nd, 2009 at 8:13 pmThere is no need for anger.
Just make fun of these clowns!
Lover of Progress
evidently, obama and dems don’t have to lie, they just have to act on the lies that the repugs say for them.
And some here will jump for joy and proclaim “THIS IS PROGRESS!”
June 22nd, 2009 at 8:13 pmThey usually do good polling days before an election (to fall in line with other polls) so they’re not thirty percent off come election night. Other than that, they skew their polls and become an outlier.
June 22nd, 2009 at 8:13 pmYou are dodging the question:
June 22nd, 2009 at 8:14 pm—
This is hilarious….
What kills me is Obama is getting blamed if the public plan dies in Congress when its obstructionist Dems and Republicans getting in the way.
I want to see just one of these jokers have to deal with the pain I’m in and have crappy or no insurance. It’s a nightmare.
Fortunetly I got a really nice response from Senator Bernie Sanders! He wrote me back personally so I was a little shocked but he said he’ll include my story on his website and in arguments on the floor if need be :)
June 22nd, 2009 at 8:14 pmJane Goodall has been my mentor. Lovely lady…
June 22nd, 2009 at 8:14 pmthe clowns are on both sides – the repugs for telling them and the dems for capitulating to them.
June 22nd, 2009 at 8:15 pmyou are dodging the question
Why are coryn’s lies wrong but obama and dem leaders acting on those same lies is good?
June 22nd, 2009 at 8:15 pmUgh AJ is still here… d and ralph OFnF?
June 22nd, 2009 at 8:16 pmNotice the drop in the use of the word “backwash” Someone is trying to create a new tone and hope folks aren’t bright enough to transfer. Not bloody likely…
June 22nd, 2009 at 8:16 pmGlad you clarified who your mentor was – explains why you are so good at jackin’ off with the repug/neocon primates.
But why are cornyn’s lies “bad” and obama & dem leaders acting on those same lies “good”?
June 22nd, 2009 at 8:16 pmAnother Joe,
June 22nd, 2009 at 8:16 pmObama is a great man, he never lies.
Lover – you must have watched THIS VIDEO today:
June 22nd, 2009 at 8:17 pmHey kdamergirl:
June 22nd, 2009 at 8:18 pmI think not for the moment.I am enjoying pounding em. Soon I can move to stage three and they will protest not…
explains why you are so good at jackin’ off with the repug/neocon primates.
June 22nd, 2009 at 8:19 pm—
How very clever. Ever read DeWaal?
Face it everybody who reads TP knows you are a fake….
From what I can see is the….
Republicans are blocking all signs of progress for reforming healthcare.
Republicans would rather talk about polls that have nothing to do with the crisis [insert one of the daily crisis' here] of the day.
George Bush had no plans to change, fix, or reform healthcare.
A few Democrats have joined the Slime Wagon (the republicans who are blocking all signs of progress for reforming healthcare) in blocking healthcare.
And….President Obama still wants to plow forward no matter what anyone is saying, because he understands that private healthcare is too expensive for those who don’t have the full time job with all the benefits, not all Americans qualify for medicaid and it’s time to do something about it!
See?
June 22nd, 2009 at 8:19 pmkdgamergirl ,
I don’t care about your condition or lack of health coverage. I have my own plan that costs me 150 a month. Maybe you should give up the Cell Phone and Cable TV. Then I bet you can afford Health Care.
Go cry a river Liberal Loser!
June 22nd, 2009 at 8:19 pmI’ll join in the pounding then. I could use a good meltdown for entertainment :)
June 22nd, 2009 at 8:20 pmReally? Which provider do you go through that costs only $150.00/month?
June 22nd, 2009 at 8:20 pm-All the polls were within a few points of each other.
Second, Rasmussen had their numbers skewing towards McCain all through the election season until their final poll result fell in line with other polls.
June 22nd, 2009 at 8:21 pmkdamergirl
June 22nd, 2009 at 8:21 pmYou are a vet aren’t you?
kdgamergirl ,
June 22nd, 2009 at 8:21 pmThat pain is pounding you! Don’t expect me to pay!
NeoCon and Proud Says:
kdgamergirl ,
I don’t care about your condition or lack of health coverage. I have my own plan that costs me 150 a month. Maybe you should give up the Cell Phone and Cable TV. Then I bet you can afford Health Care.
Go cry a river Liberal Loser!
I’m a veteran loser. I should have my insurance covered but I don’t thanks to the Navy. Their fault I got hurt and all they do is pay for my pain meds. Get a life poser troll.
June 22nd, 2009 at 8:21 pmLover – THIS LINK takes you directly to video you must have watched today.
June 22nd, 2009 at 8:22 pmkdgamergirl,
June 22nd, 2009 at 8:23 pmYou Veterinarian, all those animal bites have hurt ya!
NeoCon and Proud is mostlikely not a vet. That is the NeoCon M.O.
June 22nd, 2009 at 8:23 pmkdgamergirl,
June 22nd, 2009 at 8:23 pmYou are a Veteran of video games. You are a fake and a fraud!
Dude she really is a vet. Don’t embarass yourself.
June 22nd, 2009 at 8:23 pmNeoCon and Proud is another one of my past play things. Notice the use of my phrasing?
June 22nd, 2009 at 8:25 pmdbadass Says:
Dude she really is a vet. Don’t embarass yourself.
Not possible. Just another sockpuppet troll flinging feces.
June 22nd, 2009 at 8:26 pmArn Gunnutes – k
so no one here actually has a open, direct, and personal dialog with obama and the dem leaders.
The reports are that “public option” and universal coverage are being removed – essentially giving us mclames/palin’s rejected plan from 2008 – policies that are even more unpopular than when mclame was embarrassed in a landslide.
If, we in fact, get essentially meaningless reform that then shuts of the dialog for another 8, 12, 20, or more years; would you agree that is bad?
I don’t have a crystal ball, but most sites are indicating that meaningful healthcare reform is not going to happen. I am not trying to make this an issue over who “lied”.
It should be a legitimate issue to question why focusing on the lies and not on the folks that act on them is appropriate.
June 22nd, 2009 at 8:26 pmdbadass Says:
kdamergirl
You are a vet aren’t you?
Yes I am but I served less than 18 months because I got hurt in my AO school so I lost everything, my benefits and my money for school. I have nerve damage on the upper left side of my body. I loose feeling in my left arm sometimes and I can barely grip anything. I constantly feel like my arm has no circulation (like my limb “feel asleep) without my Lyrica which costs me $175 a bottle. Blue Cross won’t pay for it because it’s too new.
Lyrica is the only thing that takes away my nerve pain without side effects.
The Navy only pays for my Vicodin for my muscle pain that accompanies the damage. That actually was generous of them but they basically said I can’t be rehabilitated so they don’t have to pay anything else. I was only 18 at the time of my discharge and signed the papers.
It’s not even just me. I’m worried about all the people who don’t have anything and get screwed when they have to seek help. I highly support a public plan and making these companies that profit off people’s illness and injury lower their prices.
June 22nd, 2009 at 8:27 pmNeoCon and Proud. I did not serve in the military did you?
June 22nd, 2009 at 8:28 pmThere are misquotes based on reading the material too fast.
There are misquotes where material is taken out of context.
And then there are misquotes that are so insane that they signal not only a lie, but to make the material say the opposite of what it says and have the material support the wrong position.
June 22nd, 2009 at 8:29 pmWhere do those folks go that defend capitulation to those that you say are in hell?
If the “treasonous scumbags” will burn in hell, what about those that enabled those policies.
What about those that continue them because they are now signing “no we can’t” instead of “yes we can”?
June 22nd, 2009 at 8:29 pmAnother Joe Says:
Shorter: WAH Obama hasn’t waved his wand magic wand and made all the problems go away.
June 22nd, 2009 at 8:30 pmkdamergirl:
June 22nd, 2009 at 8:30 pmThat blows. Trust me I am happy to be taxed more to provide for all in need. In the meantime we are going to have to settle on Mai Tai’sbut only when you aren’t on the pain killers…
lol I can have like one drink every now and then. If I do drink I always ask the bartender to only put in half the alcohol.
June 22nd, 2009 at 8:32 pmbush family certainly is evil – here are some links:
*Meet the Bush Family
*Bush & Hitler: First Family of Treason
*Bush Linked to JFK Assassination
June 22nd, 2009 at 8:32 pmAnother Joe:
June 22nd, 2009 at 8:32 pmUnless you wish to earn some respect by answering the question, can youplease just shut the f uck up? Nobody cares…
D,
I also have no problem paying more taxes so people can get the care they need. I’m happy to help my fellow Americans rather than be selfish.
June 22nd, 2009 at 8:33 pmno one expects a magic want – but capitulating to the lies of folks like cornyn should be fair game.
It isn’t about who tells the lies – its really about who acts on them – you are being sold out, so it appears.
But as long as it is obama and a dem, its OK then.
But most of America doesn’t see it that way.
June 22nd, 2009 at 8:34 pmyou are not the king of this mountain and people here don’t clamor for your approval
the only question that matters is:
If cornyn lying about healthare is worth a blog, why can’t we question why obama and dems appear to be acting on those same lies?
June 22nd, 2009 at 8:35 pmkdgamergirl,
June 22nd, 2009 at 8:36 pmHa ha ha ha you saw no combat. You are a toy soldier vet. I don’t care about your injury nor do I want to pay for it. Suffer in pain loser!
Since the topic of evil bush family has been broached – consider these:
Creepiness Factors Surrounding the Bush Clan
or
Tricky Dick Was Bush-League Compared to Chimpy
I am sure it will offend some, just one interpretation of history. Let’s just look at the “creepiness factors” here.
The Bush family fortune did not come from oil — it came from financing the Nazis in WW II. There was an investigation (official record) and I believe some assets were frozen and even seized.
In fact, some say the Prescotts and other powerful elites were actually behind Hitler’s rise to power in Germany. Think about this – it is a fact that the propaganda techniques had their roots in America. Was Hitler an evil genius or a stupid puppet — anyone else see some scary possibilities here.
George Bush I namesake and maternal grandfather, George Herbert ‘Bert’ Walker, was a native of St. Louis, who founded the banking and investment firm of G. H. Walker and Company in 1900. Herbert “Bert” Walker controlled Smith and Wesson. The brownshirts in the streets of 1920s Germany were armed with Smith and Wesson revolvers, which they got for free from Fritz Thyssen (of Thyssen/Krupp), who got them wholesale from Walker.
George’s grandfather, Prescott is responsible for bringing Richard Nixon into politics, set him up, and provided direction and support.
George I was involved with the CIA many years before being its director under Gerald Ford. He was involved with the Bay of Pigs. Some believe he has connections, direct or indirect, with JFK assassination. If you do not accept the Warren Commission, and most Americans don’t, then the murder of an elected president was nothing less than a coup d’etat. It is a verified fact, that the rest of the world accepts though it was never given the press it deserved, that chimpy did not win in 2000 – another coup d’tat?
If you think the JFK case is convoluted and full of lies – check of the RFK murder! Most certainly this paved the way for tricky dick to get into the Whitehouse (remember, this is Prescott’s main man). Isn’t this, in many ways, a coup too? While we’re at it – Martin Luther King’s murder was the result of a conspiracy – at least that is what a judge and jury decided when they heard the evidence. How come the rest of America never heard the evidence?
Nixon could not have possibly resigned over the Watergate burglary — this is minor league stuff, especially by today’s standards. What possibly could have been on that 18-minute gap that cannot be recovered with today’s technology? You know that you cannot actually erase your hard-drive this clean. A secretary certainly did not erase these tapes in this matter by herself. No — this is not a direct Bush thing, unless there was direct, indirect involvement with JFK murder. Any other speculation as to what was on that tape?
The “Reagan Revolution” was enabled by treason – George Bush Sr. negotiated with the Iranian hostage takers to hold U.S. citizens captive until AFTER the election. This, coupled with the “mighty Wurlitzer” mainstream media undermined President Carter and threw the election to Ronald Reagan. This “October Surprise” was actually a coup detat against a sitting president. Reagan did not start his presidency as a wildly popular “uniter”, he was propelled into office via an act of treasonous.
The Reagan assassination attempt was done by the son of a close bush family friend — while Ronald ran as an aggressive, “reform” type in 1980, he became a passive “hands-off” delegate after the assassination attempt. Coincidence — Nancy Reagan could not stand the Bushes.
If you can accept that there was Bush involvement with the CIA and perhaps even the Reagan assassination attempt, then please look at this link:
http://www.mackwhite.com/lennon.html
Neil Bush was a major player in the Savings and Loan scandal — cost us billions. He told congress that he received million dollar loans that were “forgiven” and that this “happens all the time.” Does anyone else think this makes chimpy’s Social Security con more reprehensible?
Bush Sr. was a leading player in the Iran-Contra scandal. Drugs were used as a weapon against targeted communities INSIDE of America and the illegal funds that these sales generated were used to maintain illicit, “off-the-book” programs that have never been made public. The destruction of America’s inner city funded additional illegal, treasonous activities.
Bush Sr. pardoned all of the Iran/Contra co-conspirators. Many of these same folks have played active roles in enabling treasonous acts of George W Bush.
Bush Sr. was having breakfast with Bakr bin Laden, brother of Osama, the morning of 9/11, at a Carlyle Group shareholders meeting.
Marvin P. Bush, the president’s younger brother, was a principal in a company called Securacom that provided security for the World Trade Center, United Airlines, and Dulles International Airport. The World Trade Center was destroyed just days after a heightened security alert was lifted. Daria Coard, 37, a guard at Tower One, said the security detail had been working 12-hour shifts for the prior two weeks because of numerous phone threats. But on Thursday [September 6], bomb-sniffing dogs were abruptly removed. On the weekend of 9/8, 9/9 there was a ‘power down’ condition in WTC tower 2, the south tower. This power down condition meant there was no electrical supply for approx 36 hrs from floor 50 up… “Of course without power there were no security cameras, no security locks on doors and many, many ‘engineers’ coming in and out of the tower.” Surveillance tapes and maintenance logs are missing.
The Bush administration was specifically warned about planes being used as weapons and that “Bin Ladin Determined to Attack US” yet they claimed “who could have known?”
President Bush’s cousin should have been in the World Trade Centre when it was attacked. Jim Pierce, managing director of AON Corporations, had arranged a business conference on the 105th floor of the South Tower where its New York offices were based. But his group was too large so they decided to move across the street to the Millennium Hotel.
The Bush administration was specifically warned about the need to rebuild NOLA levees and was specifically warned about Hurricane Katrina, yet they claimed “who could have known?”
Iraq, a war that Bush I refused to continue fighting in after Desert Storm, was allowed to progress into what is now being more widely accepted as “the gates of hell” and a civil war. This after the American public was told “we would be greeted as liberators” and “mission accomplished. The oil industry, however, is making record profits that are astonishingly high and the military-industrial complex is making BILLIONS in profits – much of the federal money they receive (hundreds of billions) cannot be accounted for. Outrageous billings for services and supplies are the order of the day – but billions are just “disappearing” into the war machine’s deep pockets.
George W. Bush becomes the first President of the United States to proclaim that torture is official U.S. Policy. Of course, torture was part of the government’s attempt to destabilize sovereign governments under Iran/Contra. Those programs were illicit and kept “off the book” and out of the press. George W. proclaims this is now official U.S. Policy.
George W. Bush declares the constitution is just a “God Damn piece of paper” and declares that he is above the law. He signs bills with statements that he will not follow the laws he is signing. He also signs into law a budget bill that was not passed by both senate and house.
As President Bush embarks on a new effort to shore up public support for the war in Iraq, an uncle of the commander in chief is collecting $2.7 million in cash and stock from the recent sale of a company that profited from the war.
Is it possible that the Bush family has connections to some of the most disturbing events in the past 100 years?
I humbly present this for discussion only, not as fact – “Gemstone” files style, seeking to promote dialog. Much of this would never be verifiable if true – run these topics through your favorite “search engine,” see what you find, decide for your self, and share your ideas.
June 22nd, 2009 at 8:36 pmSince when are you deciding which questions matter? Would you like to ask the readers if they give a rat’s ass about your pretend posturing? Come on big guy , ask them?
June 22nd, 2009 at 8:37 pmNobody broached that topic but you d ouch e bag…
June 22nd, 2009 at 8:38 pmYawn this poser troll sounds like Merdad.
And AJ what is Obama supposed to do? He can’t force Congress to do anything. The public plan idea is failing because Congress members are obstructing it and keeping it out might be the only way to get any reform.
I don’t like the idea anymore than you do but I fail to see the point of your constant whining about TP content and then seeing you add to the conversation.
June 22nd, 2009 at 8:38 pmFlag the concern troll for spamming.
June 22nd, 2009 at 8:39 pmNeocon and dumb, Hey tough guy, who were you with? When did you serve? What was your MOS, Service#, Unit and theater? Tell how you served tough guy.
June 22nd, 2009 at 8:39 pmdbass-you are the one making a big deal about how your can proclaim who should answer what question…
June 22nd, 2009 at 8:40 pmNeoCon and Proud:
June 22nd, 2009 at 8:40 pmWhere did you see your combat? You are a tool. I young lady serves the gratest nation and this is your bullshit levelof respect. That lack of respect clearly rules out any potential service of your own as no vet would speak to another like that.
FUNK what Cornyn and the rest of the rethuglican party and DINOs say! I want and need a public health insurance option!
June 22nd, 2009 at 8:41 pmdbass-you are the one making a big deal about how your can proclaim who should answer what question
June 22nd, 2009 at 8:42 pm– No I am making a big deal of you avoiding the question you will not answer since it will expose you as a fraud seeking nothing but attention. All you have to do is answer it honesty and I will let it go. Do I need to post it again or do you remember it?
hormiga brava chavez – oh oh, you will get flamed for wondering why the bloggin’ is all about the lying liars and never about those selling out out to the same lying liars based on the same lies.
June 22nd, 2009 at 8:44 pmEverytime you avoid it your reputation as a fraud becomes more ingrained… Is that what you want?
June 22nd, 2009 at 8:45 pmAnother Joe Says:
You may think you’re being clever but your charade isn’t fooling the regulars.
June 22nd, 2009 at 8:45 pmHe still hasn’t answered me on what he actually does with his complaints either.
June 22nd, 2009 at 8:45 pmMerdad had to change name for the same reason….
June 22nd, 2009 at 8:46 pmAll the hoo-ha re: John M from #3 I understand, but the real issue is the false equivalency. Just because people may not have voted at all doesn’t mean they don’t want health care. So, John M is making a ridiculous argument.
The flip side of his ridiculous argument is that there are numerous people out there, who didn’t vote, but claimed they voted for Obama and they want health care. He posits, that can’t be true. Yet, it makes absolute sense that this would be the case. That people whether they voted for Obama or not, want health care.
So, the real issue is people want health care and the crazy right tries to take anything to claim it’s not true.
June 22nd, 2009 at 8:48 pmHow many people did the health insurance industry murder today?
June 22nd, 2009 at 8:49 pmAJ,
Might I suggest?
1. Use the Tools on this site to submit a Topic of discussion
2. Try emailing the site operators to allow you to become a blog contributor.
or
3. Start your OWN blog.
Otherwise, continue on being a poser. Your choice.
June 22nd, 2009 at 8:50 pmAnother Joe, what did you do in the military? We’ll give you a few moments to search Google to find out.
June 22nd, 2009 at 8:50 pmgdunn,
June 22nd, 2009 at 8:52 pmJohnM always has rediculous arguments, comments, etc..
No way AJ served. He’d get his ass handed to him in basic for the whining. I’m even wondering if he does any sort of community service. He seems so “concerned” about others but I bet it’s all a cover for his selfish agenda.
June 22nd, 2009 at 8:52 pmI don’t think the public option is dead. There seems to be a lot of impatience and pessimism among Progressives these days. The battle is on. Keep writing your representatives. The Senate only needs 51 votes to pass a public option.
June 22nd, 2009 at 8:53 pmWiley great post :)
June 22nd, 2009 at 8:54 pmSeems my work is done here for the moment. I am sorry it took so long. I look forward to the thoughtful discussion that will likely follow. I also regret the evnts which have led to kdamergirl’s injuries. I respect her service and her committment to her education
June 22nd, 2009 at 8:54 pmbest all-
Thanks d :)
I’m sure he ran to another thread so I’m done with this troll for now.
June 22nd, 2009 at 8:57 pmTHis is really sad, but very revealing of the leftist/progressive/liberal mindest…
No blogging about what is happening RIGHT NOW in Iran. I just watched the YouTube video of the young woman who was murdered by the Iranian secret police.
June 22nd, 2009 at 8:57 pmOh Geez…
Hi Tim Vaculik…
Tim what if you had just come in with…
“No blogging about what is happening RIGHT NOW in Iran. I just watched the YouTube video of the young woman who was murdered by the Iranian secret police.”
Don’t you think that would have promoted a better dialogue?
June 22nd, 2009 at 9:00 pmI write this goofy bastard often and you wouldn’t believe the non-sense he returns. He is completely unhinged and in the tank for corporations.
June 22nd, 2009 at 9:00 pmThis is probably futile but, I would be remiss not to try. So, what the Hell?
The thing is, Joe. I’m a patient realist by nature. I never expect those in power to be altruistic. All I can count on is that they may come to the conclusion that my best interests may coincide with theirs. It doesn’t happen often.
That being said, I find it difficult to condemn politicians for their apparent positions on legislation that hasn’t even been written. And I won’t assign a position to one who hasn’t announced one. Unless they come out with a firm stand, for or against, based solely on party lines. In this respect one can’t make a realistic comparison between the GOoPers and the Dems.
But? As much as I am disgusted by the GOP knee-jerk opposition to EVERYTHING, I would not be much more comfortable if President Obama announced that he was giving the Congressional Democrats, or anyone else, unqualified support by virtue of affiliation. And I don’t really want or expect the Congressional Democrats to work as a dogma driven block.
You feel betrayed. I don’t. I can’t get past the simple fact that every issue our government is dealing with is, by virtue of the damage done by previous legislators and President, a full-blown emergency. And, as a practical matter, emergency measures are not the best place to make fundamental change. The fact is that people operating under the stress of an emergency often make bad decision or decisions that only apply during the emergency.
Heck! The DOJ and other appointed positions are still full of Regent “University” grads and Bushco lickspittles. The whole damn government still needs fumigating and little can really happen until it’s done.
I like the an@logy of a car going in the wrong direction at highway speed. The best way to deal with it is to: slow down, stop, turn around, and then accelerate towards the desired destination. Throwing the car in reverse is foolhardy and dangerous and, usually, disastrous.
There is a desire to reverse course on a number of issues and some steps are being taken. But, I can’t get too worked up about half-measures because there’s always room to tweak the measures taken based on real-time results.
I don’t want sweeping, untested, and permanent action while we are in a state of such national crisis. I want our elected officials to treat our country like a car going in the wrong direction.
1. Slow down.
2. Stop.
3. Turn around.
5. Accelerate in the desired direction.
I don’t expect perfection from anybody and, in fact, I expect mistakes. Mistakes are not too bad if they are small ones. But we can’t compound the huge mistakes of the past with new ones.
June 22nd, 2009 at 9:02 pmdbadass,
June 22nd, 2009 at 9:02 pmJust when you thought your work was done. Sigh.
Tim Vaculik Says:
Nico Pitney has been blogging this 24/7 at Huffington Post and there are 85 thousand comments so far.
June 22nd, 2009 at 9:03 pmPerhaps you remember him from his days at Think Progress?
not only is pete an excellent naturalist, pete is also a wise and rational man. I respect pete.
June 22nd, 2009 at 9:05 pmOops! 4. Choose a course.
June 22nd, 2009 at 9:06 pmPete,
June 22nd, 2009 at 9:08 pmAnother Great post!
This is the part I think AJ has trouble wrapping his brain around.
That being said, I find it difficult to condemn politicians for their apparent positions on legislation that hasn’t even been written
Pete:
As long as we get Single Payer for every citizen, fine. They can pay for it with the $1.3 Trillion tax cut for the top 2% the repukes gave away so willingly.
June 22nd, 2009 at 9:08 pmOT—anyone hear about this bill?
Deem that human life begins with fertilization
Bill # H.R.227
Original Sponsor:
Paul Broun (R-GA 10th)
Cosponsor Total: 55
(last sponsor added 01/26/2009)
55 Republicans
I don’t know if this is still active, but Republicans are doing just more than saying “no”. They’re proposing outrageous legislation.
June 22nd, 2009 at 9:09 pmThanks, dbadass. Years of ramrodding a restaurant full of teenagers through a dinner rush has made me a master of compromise.
June 22nd, 2009 at 9:12 pmHey, you hang your hat on what is available. If that means a discredited report, so be it.
June 22nd, 2009 at 9:12 pmwiley:
June 22nd, 2009 at 9:15 pmI love those sorts of bills. They totally open the door to challenges of all age based laws as the suddenly make everyone 9 months older…
republicans hate facts,
June 22nd, 2009 at 9:15 pmWhy argue with that ignorant roach?
Where the hell did Tim Vaculik go?
June 22nd, 2009 at 9:15 pmwiley Says:
I don’t think the public option is dead. There seems to be a lot of impatience and pessimism among Progressives these days.
I always hope for the best and plan for the worst… the worst being almost enough Senators will vote for it, those being the agreed few up for re election in ‘10. to make it look good to the public, while just enough vote against it to appease the insurance industry – their contributors. We better not see that f’ing dance over this issue.
I do not see the senators fighting for what 72% of the public demands…. just some righties on MSM out there every now and then putting down public health care.
Not only should we be calling the senate, but also let them know, even if they vote for this issue, if it does not pass, the public will be looking for a new Senate.
June 22nd, 2009 at 9:16 pmYou’re just now watching the video of Neda? The rest of us saw it on Saturday. Where were ya? Oh wait! You’ve been waiting for TP to post it and since they haven’t, you automatically think the liberals don’t care! Idiot.
June 22nd, 2009 at 9:16 pmwiley:
Never underestimate the stupidity of the “Psychochristians”. I suppose they just can’t make the leap of logic that such a bill would make every woman who miscarries, and their God, a murderer.
June 22nd, 2009 at 9:19 pmAs for Iran…
I depend on sources that have sources in Iran. I assume that TP doesn’t have said sources and is refraining from comment for that reason.
June 22nd, 2009 at 9:22 pmTimmeh is back at freepwhacks boasting how it just SLAMMED us Adults.
Typical DooDooDumpnRun
June 22nd, 2009 at 9:23 pmSomeday I should go over there and f uck around…
June 22nd, 2009 at 9:26 pmrepublicans hate facts
I didn’t make the comment @185, there is something odd going on here.
June 22nd, 2009 at 9:30 pm…
the trolls have quit.
:(
June 22nd, 2009 at 9:34 pmdbadass Says:
Someday I should go over there and f uck around…
I tried to interject a little sanity into a tread at Freeperville. I was banned for posting: “What WMD”? Seriously. Two freaking words and I was gone for bucking the lies. I suspect that they drink lead-based coffee, sweetened with mercury. Though I suppose it could be congenital.
June 22nd, 2009 at 9:35 pmThey make it harder and harder to respond, attack, or even complain. We write, we call, it doesn’t matter who our senators or reps are. They don’t care. I see the U.S. in 2010 something like Iran 2009 if these clowns are unopposed. Where are the Democrats? Don’t they know how to lead? Don’t they know how to use Twitter or email or put out a statement on their websites? Three quarters of Americans favor a public plan, but our elected reps (our employees) don’t give a crap. Somebody better do something real soon.
June 22nd, 2009 at 9:35 pmpete:
June 22nd, 2009 at 9:38 pmI need you to give me all the tips you have. I can do a very good Zelig. I just need time to prep and good intel.
“You speak for nobody – I will post here because so many agree. You may think you are god of TP, but folks that have been reading the thread over time know otherwise.”
Joe, while we may agree with your points, your style and your browbeating and your whining and your “backwash” crap turn your points into just that, crap. Start your own damned blog – hell, a bunch of us did it before when we were unhappy with TP.
Otherwise, yes, ralph and dbadass DO speak for many of us, and I’m fine with that.
June 22nd, 2009 at 9:38 pmHi Jane.
June 22nd, 2009 at 9:38 pm2.5 days till vaca….HopeWayne is feeling better…
the trolls have quit.
:(
—
June 22nd, 2009 at 9:40 pmI can’t help but feel a little responsible. Sorry…
Tim Vaculik Says:
THis is really sad, but very revealing of the leftist/progressive/liberal mindest…
No blogging about what is happening RIGHT NOW in Iran. I just watched the YouTube video of the young woman who was murdered by the Iranian secret police.
June 22nd, 2009 at 8:57 pm
Obviously you haven’t been looking too hard around the internets for coverage. Here, go read up: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/06/13/iran-demonstrations-viole_n_215189.html. We are also covering it at TheZoo.
June 22nd, 2009 at 9:41 pm.HopeWayne is feeling better…
Yeah, he’s a lot better than yesterday, but now I have it!
June 22nd, 2009 at 9:43 pmNeoCon and Proud Says:
kdgamergirl,
Ha ha ha ha you saw no combat. You are a toy soldier vet. I don’t care about your injury nor do I want to pay for it. Suffer in pain loser!
June 22nd, 2009 at 8:36 pm
STFU and go to hell, a$$wipe!
June 22nd, 2009 at 9:45 pmdbadass Says:
the trolls have quit.
:(
—
I can’t help but feel a little responsible. Sorry…
June 22nd, 2009 at 9:40 pm
***
when the trolls leave, the fun leaves.
the globetrotters have the generals,
we have the trolls.
***
come back johnm,
we love you!
:)
June 22nd, 2009 at 9:46 pm…
tim vacasukadik,
where are you?!
:(
June 22nd, 2009 at 9:48 pmtim vacasukadik,
where are you?!
joe, hopefully he’s reading up on the events in Iran at the link I posted. There’s a lot to read there, he should be a while.
June 22nd, 2009 at 9:50 pmane E. Schneider Says:
tim vacasukadik,
where are you?!
joe, hopefully he’s reading up on the events in Iran at the link I posted. There’s a lot to read there, he should be a while.
June 22nd, 2009 at 9:50 pm
***
the really good lies
take time.
***
good luck, tim!
:)
June 22nd, 2009 at 9:56 pm“(1) the right to life guaranteed by the Constitution”
There is no such right in the Constitution. This was from the Declaration of Independence, which is not the source of our laws. When are the Republicans going to learn this?
June 22nd, 2009 at 9:57 pmSTFU and go to hell, a$$wipe!
—
June 22nd, 2009 at 9:57 pmYou said that so much better than I did…
Jane E. Schneider Says:
“(1) the right to life guaranteed by the Constitution”
There is no such right in the Constitution. This was from the Declaration of Independence, which is not the source of our laws. When are the Republicans going to learn this?
June 22nd, 2009 at 9:57 pm
***
jane,
confuse them with facts
and they self abort.
:|
June 22nd, 2009 at 9:59 pmSen. John Cornyn (R-TX) is a poor judge of character. Sen. John Cornyn (R-TX) is a poor choice of Senator.
June 22nd, 2009 at 10:01 pmIt’s heartbreaking to see people suffering without good health insurance, losing their homes and going bankrupt due to medical bills. My blood boils when I see grandstanding fools like Lindsay Graham who want a public option to just “go away” and John Cornyn who say that a public option is not popular. They don’t know what in hell they’re talking about!
I’ve been lucky, I don’t have health problems yet but I’m paying a lot of money on health insurance premiums! It’s eating up over $5,000 a year of my income. I go to the doctor once a year, but I’m paying out a lot of money for insurance.
I care about what’s happening in Iran but I feel more worried about what’s going on right here in the USA! The USA, one of the richest countries with the highest level of GREED.
June 22nd, 2009 at 10:07 pmjoe, just to let you know, Wayne wrote comment #209. He’s doing some updates on his computer, so I let him use mine for that one.
—————–
What Tim forgot to add, “….and I cheered wildly.”
Even I would not presume to believe that even Tim would be so callous. I’d prefer to give him the benefit of the doubt on this one.
June 22nd, 2009 at 10:13 pmrepublicans hate facts Says:
That’s because Rasmussen is the Fox of polling. They don’t bother with facts, science or methodology just like Fox doesn’t bother with journalism, honesty or integrity. Occasionally both of them get an item right, but it’s usually an accident.
Actually, you’re describing Zogby.
June 22nd, 2009 at 10:17 pmJane E. Schneider Says:
joe, just to let you know, Wayne wrote comment #209. He’s doing some updates on his computer, so I let him use mine for that one.
—————–
What Tim forgot to add, “….and I cheered wildly.”
Even I would not presume to believe that even Tim would be so callous. I’d prefer to give him the benefit of the doubt on this one.
June 22nd, 2009 at 10:13 pm
…
tim’s sick.
but not that sick.
:|
June 22nd, 2009 at 10:18 pmkasinca Says:
Pete:
As long as we get Single Payer for every citizen, fine. They can pay for it with the $1.3 Trillion tax cut for the top 2% the repukes gave away so willingly.
Also, do we rally have to pay 50% of our taxes to the pentagon – isn’t the total amount more than all the other countries, countries that have public health care system,put together?
If we all had a 2 to 3% increase in taxes to cover a public health care plan, most would be happy to pay instead of their more than mortgage amount payments for a health insurance policy from an industry always looking for ways to opt out of coverage.
What’s the rush? 20,000 die each year, or 55 a day, due to no access to health care. Small business’s are hurting trying to find ways to afford coverage for their employees. 60% of bankruptcies are from medical debt. The latter 2 would stimulate the economy.
Also, if we do not get it done soon, the goppers will hold it against the dems politically going into next election year of fall ‘09 to ‘10. The GOPers will use this to the fullest extent … the dems can’t get anything done…with their corporate money.
June 22nd, 2009 at 10:35 pmApparently certain U.S. citizens are more interested in maintaining special interest wealthcare than they are in universal healthcare.
June 22nd, 2009 at 10:41 pmanother joe @#143, I believe about everything you said is true. Marvin’s company was owned by U.A.E.
I think the 72% is accurate. It has been 65% for decades and now the people feel there is more possibility of something happening. And they realize the private system is only going to get worse. No, the public system is not free (money has to come from somewhere), but it is administratively so far more efficient that it cuts that cost in half. And it CAN do away with deductions, co-pays, and pre-existing condtions. EVERYONE is eligible—doesn’t make any difference if you have diabetes or what sex your spouse is.
Drug companies’ profits should be cut. The ones in other countries make a profit without our high costs.
June 22nd, 2009 at 10:47 pmI’ve noticed that when people begin sentences by saying, “With all due respect…” they really mean no respect at all.
Just sayin’…
June 22nd, 2009 at 10:48 pmwizard2000 Says:
Apparently certain U.S. citizens are more interested in maintaining special interest wealthcare than they are in universal healthcare.
And they are on the boards of the corps that own the media. Or they have big investments in health insurance corps (like Cong. Harman?).
June 22nd, 2009 at 10:49 pmZooey, I have found that to be true EVERY TIME. in all due respect :)
June 22nd, 2009 at 10:50 pmSomeone should inform Troll Central that dbadass has left and it’s almost safe for them to come back.
June 22nd, 2009 at 11:00 pmLet’s see.
If you add the millions who don’t currently have health coverage to the millions who are paying through their teeth for their insurance and are wondering how much longer they can afford it to the millions who are working at jobs they’d rather not be working at but need the insurance accessibility to those who worry about someone they love not having coverage…
Well I think we may have our 72%.
June 22nd, 2009 at 11:03 pmper AP thru MSNBC:
The public plan that most Democrats envision would be offered alongside private plans through a new kind of insurance purchasing pool called an exchange. Individuals and small businesses would be able to buy coverage through exchanges, but eventually businesses of any size might be able to join.
I wish there were more details to be had. They tease that some Dems are getting bolder. I hope so!
June 22nd, 2009 at 11:22 pmI still don’t get why an industry founded on estimating shipping risks in the sixteenth century should have anything to do with determining who gets and doesn’t get health care.
June 22nd, 2009 at 11:48 pmWas this lost in the Friday-ness of it all?
June 23rd, 2009 at 12:15 am
Of course the respondents are going to be skewed towards saying they voted for President Obama, who in their right mind would admit voting for T-Rex, even if they had?
Well, that’s a self answering question isn’t it? There’s about 25% of humanoids here in America that really, really aren’t of sound mind.
We need to clone dbadass and purge the country of these throwbacks. Maybe clone some of them Schneider ladies too……
June 23rd, 2009 at 12:24 amin the original Preamble to the constitution, notice how the forefathers capitalized the important issues:
As common defense is NOT capitalized how did it gain the importance of 50% of our tax dollar? Shouldn’t we be paying more towards general Welfare, Tranquility and Justice for all ei: ACCESSIBLE HEALTH CARE FOR ALL?
June 23rd, 2009 at 12:26 amNot only not capitalized, it’s not even spelled right.
June 23rd, 2009 at 12:31 am#227 wiley
Great find.
The bill almost sounds too good to be true. And you know it is good when, as in the article, the Party of NO strongly opposes it with this statement:
Access to health care for all, and especially a plan this good passed with the dems in charge would be a certain death to the goppers.
June 23rd, 2009 at 1:04 amIt’s the Democratic Senators that need hounding. We don’t need Republican votes. It’s time for the Democratic party to grow a set, forget about the Republicans, and start being a little afraid of disappointing US.
June 23rd, 2009 at 1:55 amTell you what, Senator Cornhole: Give up your Cheney care that we the taxpayers provide for you. Go out and find someone to insure you for 12-16K a year and deny you treatment, and then come back and tell us how you feel about a public option.
What a shithead this guy is.
June 23rd, 2009 at 2:31 amForget Rasmussen, Zogby, et al.
Accurate scientific polls have shown for years that most Americans favor progressive policies–from universal health care to gun control to sex education. America is a liberal country and has always been so.
Because these facts are inconvenient for the right, they are ignored.
Rupert Murdoch in Pain
June 23rd, 2009 at 5:40 amI thought the difference in the poll and the election results is because people are loath to admit they voted for McCain.
June 23rd, 2009 at 7:46 amSo if free, government paid health care isn’t popular, why aren’t you rejecting yours, Senator Hypocrite?
June 23rd, 2009 at 8:05 amStatistics and polls. Love to hate them…
We all know why they are used and how they can be used…
Wanting a public-funded system may vary depending on the question and how it was asked. I’d like to see the questions…
It all sounds great, but I know people who go to and work in the VA… Go ask the majority of folks using the VA system, our veterans, how they like the VA system–remember it is government-run health care.
But wait, you say. The VA is government-run health care and NOT government-run insurance. Right…
The issue isn’t “health care” vs. “insurance.” The issue is “government run.”
I am against it.
RUCeriousMaggot! asks Senator Hypocrite why he isn’t rejecting his “free, government health care.” That is JUST my POINT. Who would give up an “entitlement” once it is given? Everyone wants “free” health care because we won’t have to pay for it…
My first point is that the people (citizens who vote) gave it to Politicians by re-electing them after they “gave it to themselves.” People in Congress are treated differently than the rest because THEY designed it that way (e.g., they are not affected by laws/rules that the rest of us have to live by…See civil rights).
Education of the people to what is going on IN Washington will create a backlash against those that “work for themselves” rather than for the greater good.
However, the “greater good” is not “give things away.” I don’t believe in entitlements. Rather, I want people to “work” for what they get–otherwise, why is there any incentive to work at all?
June 23rd, 2009 at 8:22 amAfter reading most of these posts there seems to be a missing observation: powerline is claiming that the polls are skewed because of a discrepency in voter numbers. The unstated implication that they attach to this seem to be being missed:
that is, there is an implication that those who are/voted republican would, consequently and absolutely, not support heathcare reform.
This is a false assumption (though based on the republican concept that they all MUST march in line with the precise same ideology, or they are not republicans).
The voting results are inconsequential: just because someone voted for McCAin does NOT mean that they are against healthcare reform. This is empirically proveable to any person by going out and talking with a variety of people who voted republican.
As much as republican leadership marches lockstep, and dittohead followers do so as well, not every single person with conservative ideology is willing to tow the republican line in every and all aspects, much to the annoyance of the lockstep republicnas (who claim those others as not being “true republicans”, becasue they won’t follow along like good little sheeple).
June 23rd, 2009 at 8:50 amwow, Another Joe finally gets a post on TP that is solely about his favorite (and apparently only) topic of concern and he STILL whines!
obviously this Joe character is just a right wing troll trying to divide liberals with his feigned outrage
silly little whiner he is
never seen someone spend so much time on a web site they proclaim to hate
wow, just wow
June 23rd, 2009 at 8:55 ammore evidence that republicans want middle-class americans to get sick and die
June 23rd, 2009 at 9:34 amrepublicans hate facts Says:
——————————————————————————–
JohnM Says:
Still unable to answer the simple yes or no question. Typical behavior of a child. Are you going to start holding your breath and stomping your feet next?
Still UNABLE TO UNDERSTAND what a SCIENTIFIC POLL MEANS. Typical BEHAVIOR of a CHILD. Ignore the FACTS and just start WHINING FOR ATTENTION and for what *YOU* WANT.. What’s NEXT you gonna HOLD YOUR BREATH and STOMP YOUR FEET if I don’t PLAY YOUR *CHILDISH* GAME PRINCESS?
JohnM Says:
Are you saying that we should not believe respondents when they say who they voted for in the last election, but believe the respondents on their answers to whether or not they agree with public healthcare?
I’m SAYING you’re too TARDED to know how SCIENTIFIC POLLING WORKS… That’s what I’m SAYING… And SO FAR your *QUESTIONS* and your *POSTS* prove it.. ;)
I left for the night and I thought that maybe you would have the integrity to actually answer my simple question. I was clearly underestimating your imaturity. So I will ask again, a simple yes or no will do. You can keep throwing out the word scientific all you want in hopes that it will make your avoidance of the question acceptable, but it will not. It is a very simple question regarding the poll believe to be true.
Are you saying that we should not believe respondents when they say who they voted for in the last election, but believe the respondents on their answers to whether or not they agree with public healthcare?
June 23rd, 2009 at 10:47 amNat Says:
——————————————————————————–
How does it prove your point, they were not in agreement with other polls they were dead on while others (like NY Times that overestimated Obama’s strength) had very different figures. Why would they skew their results now but not during the election?
-JohnM
-All the polls were within a few points of each other.
Second, Rasmussen had their numbers skewing towards McCain all through the election season until their final poll result fell in line with other polls.
Please show where he was skewing the polls until the final poll. Looks to me like the lead was pretty flat throughout the last month. McCain was within 3 points only one time during that time.
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_presidential_election/general_election_match_up_history
June 23rd, 2009 at 10:53 amKeep on workin’ that Base, Boys-
Hey- looky there!!- there’s another one- old white dudes who lissen’a rush and FoKKKs all day……………………….
June 23rd, 2009 at 11:14 amYou miss the point, Counsel.
The VA has problems but, our vets do have health care and it has not bankrupted our economy. I recently took a good friend of mine to a few appointments at the Minneapolis VA hospital and I was very impressed. He arrived early and, rather than waiting for hours, he finished early. They even made an additional appointment and he was seen within a half-hour. During the time I was in the waiting rooms, I was very impressed at the efficiency compared to civilian clinics and hospitals.
I myself am on Medicare. It’s the best insurance I’ve ever had. I’ve never been turned away, despite clearly pre-existing conditions, and have never had a dispute over payment. Once again, it’s government health care that works.
In my experience, the VA and Medicare are the best arguments for government health care. Neither is perfect but the millions who have been well served are a more convincing argument than the hand full who have not.
June 23rd, 2009 at 4:58 pm