White House Rejects CAP’s Recommendations To Suspend DADT Through Executive Order
White House Rejects CAP’s Recommendations To Suspend DADT Through Executive Order
Yesterday, the Center for American Progress released a report detailing a clear, realistic, and comprehensive road map for repealing “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell,” the discriminatory ban on gay men and women serving openly in the military. The steps include:
1. Signing an Executive Order banning further military separations based on DADT and sending a legislative proposal on DADT repeal to Congress
2. Forming a presidential panel on how to implement the repeal
3. Repealing DADT in Congress and changing the Uniformed Code of Military Justice, or UCMS
4. Changing other necessary military guidelines to conform to the new policy
5. Following-up to ensure that the armed forces implement the policy changes
In today’s press briefing, David Corn of Mother Jones asked White House spokesman Robert Gibbs about the report and whether the Obama administration thinks this is “the way to go.” Gibbs largely dismissed CAP’s recommendations, saying that the White House is not interested in signing an executive order to temporarily halt DADT:
GIBBS: Well, the President has had meetings about this, has talked with members of Congress. His staff has talked with members of Congress. All of them have talked to Pentagon officials and the administration believes that this requires a durable, legislative solution, and is pursing that in Congress.
Q: I understand that for the long-term solution, but what do you take issue with about signing an executive order that will suspend the separations before an endurable solution is reached through the slow legislative process?
GIBBS: I mean, I think there could be differences on strategy. I think our belief is that the only and best way to do this is through a durable, comprehensive legislative process.
Watch it:
ThinkProgress spoke with CAP Senior Fellow Lawrence Korb, one of the authors of the report, who reiterated that it’s essential for Obama to suspend the dismissals of gay men and women while working on a long-term solution with Congress:
We agree on the need for a durable legislative solution. But a presidential suspension on further dismissals on the basis of DADT is not only within the authority of the president but is necessary to begin the process of repealing this counterproductive, costly, and unnecessary law.
Read the full report here.
Transcript:
Q: Center for American Progress this week put out a report on how to undo “don’t ask, don’t tell” — five steps. The first step is, the President signing an executive order banning further military separations based on “don’t ask, don’t tell” and sending a legislative proposal for the repeal to Congress, and then forming a presidential panel on how to implement the repeal. Can you tell me why the White House doesn’t believe that seems to be the way to go?
GIBBS: Well, the President has had meetings about this, has talked with members of Congress. His staff has talked with members of Congress. All of them have talked to Pentagon officials and the administration believes that this requires a durable, legislative solution, and is pursing that in Congress.
Q: I understand that for the long-term solution, but what do you take issue with about signing an executive order that will suspend the separations before an endurable solution is reached through the slow legislative process?
GIBBS: I mean, I think there could be differences on strategy. I think our belief is that the only and best way to do this is through a durable, comprehensive legislative process.
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Hmm… I could see it both ways. Doing it through the Executive would be a good first step towards doing the rest. On the other hand, if he does it by EO first, Congress might not bother taking it the rest of the way since they can duck the issue by pretending it’s solved.
But from where we’re sitting, I want to see some kind of good faith attempt showing that changing this is actually a policy of this administration and that we’re not all getting jerked around.
June 25th, 2009 at 6:21 pmFreeMarketLiberal Says:
GIBBS makes Bush look like a genious
I bet Gibbs could spell it though. So maybe not so much.
June 25th, 2009 at 6:29 pmNo one on earth could make Bush look like a genius.
Multitudes have made Bush look a blithering fool and a total idiot.
June 25th, 2009 at 6:30 pmHey FreeMarketLiberal… I’ve got another site for you that needs your attention!
http://www.fmylife.com/
I feel your brand of homespun wisdom and personal everyday musings would fit in perfectly there!
June 25th, 2009 at 6:31 pmThey even named it after you!
What part of “Don’t tell, we don’t want to know” can’t the public understand? This is not the time for freedom in America, we’re at war and we only need straight shooters in the military.
Wow, gives new meaning to WITH LIBERTY & JUSTICE FOR ALL…
Pathetic Obama & Gibbs, these are people that have served this nation and put their lives in danger.
June 25th, 2009 at 6:40 pmDADT and DOMA need to be flushed down the toilet once and for all. All citizens are entitled to full civil rights. The biases of corporate religion have no place in the civil arena.
June 25th, 2009 at 6:50 pmFlag and move on…
June 25th, 2009 at 6:52 pmI have to wonder if it were African-Americans still sitting in the back of the bus and attending seperate but equal schools Mr. Obama (obviously not president) would be okay with a sitting president he supported ignoring the civil rights aspect of this issue?
In other news, Specter looked as the latest polls that have him at 33% for re-election (Sestak only at 15% but it’s still way too early for people to know who he is) and has now announced that he supports the public option for healthcare. As long at Senator “which way is the wind blowing” continues to support the issues I support, I’m willing to play along.
But Sestak has my vote, and my time hitting the sidewalks.
PEACE
June 25th, 2009 at 6:55 pm… oh no…
RIP Michael Jackson
…
June 25th, 2009 at 7:08 pmI love how that repeal process doesn’t include repealing the sodomy laws in the UCMJ. Why does everyone forget that?! The definition of sodomy is too broad and was used before to discharge gay soldiers. This is a matter for Congress.
June 25th, 2009 at 7:14 pmOMG!! I’m in tears over Farrah and Michael. I just can’t believe this apologies for being off the subject. I grew up with both of them.
June 25th, 2009 at 7:16 pmOkay I sent some information about the sodomy laws in the UCMJ to TP. I hope they include it in the process.
June 25th, 2009 at 7:23 pmElBruce Says:
——————————————————————————–
Hmm… I could see it both ways. Doing it through the Executive would be a good first step towards doing the rest. On the other hand, if he does it by EO first, Congress might not bother taking it the rest of the way since they can duck the issue by pretending it’s solved.
But from where we’re sitting, I want to see some kind of good faith attempt showing that changing this is actually a policy of this administration and that we’re not all getting jerked around.
You highlighted the problem with an EO exactly Bruce. For lasting change, Congress will need to reform the UCMJ. Gibbs said they’re working on legislation so I hope that will turn out well. No one should have to hide their sexuality especially when they’re putting themselves on the line for this country.
June 25th, 2009 at 7:25 pmThe Uniform Code of Military Justice is abbreviated UCMJ. t really is not necessary to introduce the abbreviation unless you plan on using it elsewhere in the article. Also, it’s “Uniform” as in the same for all people.
The President just does not care whether some gay people are forcibly ejected from the military. He is as much a bigot about this issue as the Presidents who preceded him.
June 25th, 2009 at 7:27 pmranus69 Says:
I grew up with both of them.
Who are you, McCauley Culkin? I never met ‘em myself.
.
kdgamergirl Says:
You highlighted the problem with an EO exactly Bruce. For lasting change, Congress will need to reform the UCMJ. Gibbs said they’re working on legislation so I hope that will turn out well.
I could very well see a lot of “moderate” Dems ducking the issue and burying any legislation if Obama signed an Executive Order first. In order for them to actually fix the problem, it’s got to remain a problem until they fix it. Gibbs is exactly right – this is a strategic issue.
.
fletc3her Says:
The President just does not care whether some gay people are forcibly ejected from the military.
Probably not as much as he cares about how he leaves the military after his Presidency. There’s a baby in that there bathwater, btw.
June 25th, 2009 at 7:42 pmObama’s not comfortable with confrontation. He’s a negotiator, an incrementalist. He’s in the tradition of Grover Washington, not WEB DuBois. He’d rather have a compromise than uphold a principle. He is always already willing to give something away. He doesn’t seem to go in thinking “there is some shit I will not eat.”
That’s what i dislike most about him…
June 25th, 2009 at 7:47 pmgrover washington?
mindfart!
George Waashington Carver
Duh
June 25th, 2009 at 7:48 pmBush III?
June 25th, 2009 at 7:56 pmi’m reeling right now … a monumental tragedy in u.s./world existence has just 2460 occurred …
June 25th, 2009 at 8:00 pmthe 80s is slipping away from me. make it stop!
June 25th, 2009 at 8:01 pmOT – OMG! Michael Jackson is dead!
June 25th, 2009 at 8:02 pmamid my sobbing, i will say that obama just wants to get in as many gays discharged as he possibly can before the sad day in his mind that he has to sign the repeal into law! obama hates gays and lesbians!
June 25th, 2009 at 8:03 pmranus69 Says:
OMG!! I’m in tears over Farrah and Michael. I just can’t believe this apologies for being off the subject. I grew up with both of them.
June 25th, 2009 at 7:16 pm Recommend (0) | Report Abuse
I’m with you *hanging head with sadness*
June 25th, 2009 at 8:07 pmNobody can make FreemarketLiberal look like a genius, much less like a “genious.”
I’m a veteran (U.S. Army), and I can tell you that it is an institution that hates change. I don’t think Obama is jerking anybody around here – he has to do this one gradually to get the support of both the military and the conservative Dems, and an executive order just looks bad to people who are looking for excuses to oppose it.
And truthfully, as far as “endurable solutions” go, DADT is not perfect, but it ain’t exactly Maoist oppression. I’d like to see it changed, but one-issue liberals really need to look at the big picture as per Obama – it’s going to take more than 5+ months to undue to damage the GOP has done to this country since 1980, or that bigots in general have done to this country since its inception. Obama is by necessity walking between raindrops, and nothing is going to change that.
June 25th, 2009 at 8:08 pmFreeMarketLiberal Says:
GIBBS makes Bush look like a genious
Barry Gibbs couldn’t make bush look like a genius. An Enstein wig couldn’t make Bush look like a genius. You might make bush look like a genius however.
June 25th, 2009 at 8:10 pmthe great GOPsby Says:
Trajan, did you post this at your silly stalker blog earlier today?
You shouldn’t telegraph your punches.
==========================================================
20. Rodan on 25 June, 2009 at 2:39 pm reply
I will also start going after Think Progress as well. That Stalinist website needs exposure too
June 25th, 2009 at 8:13 pmThe Great Gobski, is a frat-rat home from some directional state U who doesn’t understand that in the Great Gatsby, Fitzgerald was pointing out the self-centered, self-indulgent selfish nature of the trustfund class.
June 25th, 2009 at 8:15 pmold dirty man says what?
June 25th, 2009 at 8:16 pmThe Moderate Squad Says:
Nobody can make FreemarketLiberal look like a genius, much less like a “genious.”
I’m a veteran (U.S. Army), and I can tell you that it is an institution that hates change. I don’t think Obama is jerking anybody around here – he has to do this one gradually…
No he doesn’t. The homophobes in the military are going to continue hating gays no matter what, just like the racists in the military are still racists even though Truman intergrated the military back in the early 50’s.
June 25th, 2009 at 8:18 pmtokin librul Says:
Obama’s not comfortable with confrontation. He’s a negotiator, an incrementalist. He’s in the tradition of Grover Washington, not WEB DuBois. He’d rather have a compromise than uphold a principle. He is always already willing to give something away. He doesn’t seem to go in thinking “there is some shit I will not eat.”
That’s what i dislike most about him…
Worked for Clinton. At the end of the day, I’d rather have actual results that affect all of our lives for the better than knowing my favorite politicians never gave an inch (but never achieved anything either).
.
the great GOPsby Says:
amid my sobbing, i will say that obama just wants to get in as many gays discharged as he possibly can before the sad day in his mind that he has to sign the repeal into law! obama hates gays and lesbians!
Interesting theory, let’s test it: what action has Obama taken to increase the rate at which homosexuals are discharged from the military? I’ll wait.
.
Re this Farrah and Michael stuff – look people, you didn’t know them. Not really. Fame creates the illusion of familiarity, but it’s not the same thing. Our brains are hardwired to assume that we personally know people once we know what they look, sound, and act like; we evolved our intelligence while in small tribal groups. But we did not know these people. It’s important to meditate on that difference and try to re-wire yourself to understand that. They did some acting and music that we enjoyed, but that’s all that we get from them, and frankly it’s more than we deserve. Both of them had been suffering (physically, psychologically or both) for quite some time. Any personal significance of their deaths is best (and most appropriately) left to their actual family and friends. Going all drama-queen about how you’re personally affected only cheapens the real grief that those people may be experiencing.
/curmudgeon
June 25th, 2009 at 8:18 pmDr. Hussein Matt Says:
FreeMarketLiberal Says:
GIBBS makes Bush look like a genious [sic]
My morning bowel movement is more intelligent than herr dubyah.
And your morning bowel movement has better breath than FML
June 25th, 2009 at 8:20 pmwhat action has Obama taken to increase the rate at which homosexuals are discharged from the military? I’ll wait.
——————————-
you mean some kind of gay-outing task force? stop raising the bar for your celebrity! go meditate about your own illusion of familiarity!
June 25th, 2009 at 8:22 pmi miss michael!
on that note,
YOU DONT GOTTA POST THE SAME DAYUM THING ON EVERY THREAD.
June 25th, 2009 at 8:25 pmI understand what you’re getting at Bobwurst, but Obama can’t make them not hate gays – he can, however, make it so they have orders to follow or, ideally, a law they must obey. I know a few rabid racists, for example, but none of them has ever lynched anyone.
June 25th, 2009 at 8:26 pmAmen, ElBruce…
June 25th, 2009 at 8:28 pmthe great GOPsby Says:
YOU DONT GOTTA POST THE SAME DAYUM THING ON EVERY THREAD.
And you don’t have to post anything on any thread.
June 25th, 2009 at 8:29 pmFreeMarketLiberal Says:
Aaahh…I feel right at home here with you far left Jonestown loons.
Jim Jones was an evangelical authoritarian “social conservative.”
.
FreeMarketLiberal Says:
Poor nerdy Amanda Terkel…no Pulitzer prize for you and your far left loon spin of an article.
This one really got to you, huh? Something about it stings? Tell us all about it. Go ahead, cry on our shoulder. Wingnut tears are delicious candy to me.
June 25th, 2009 at 8:40 pmFreeMarketLiberal,
Just out of curiosity, do you do anything useful in life? Or do you just show up on progressive blogs to hurl insults and demonstrate your profound ignorance?
You can answer for the sake of the others because I really don’t care about, or for, you.
June 25th, 2009 at 8:42 pmFreeMarketLiberal Says:
——————————-
you’re so uckin’ annoying!
June 25th, 2009 at 8:42 pmWayne:
June 25th, 2009 at 8:46 pmGOPer is the silly latin king wannabe.
FreeMarketLiberal Says:
I’m actually laughing at how Gibbs dismissed CAP approach.
So you admit that you hadn’t read the article until after your sixth post? OFnF for you.
June 25th, 2009 at 8:50 pmElBruce says: …They did some acting and music that we enjoyed…
well, she was good, but, excluding farrah, that’s like saying
‘the beatles played music’.
.
but, i don’t think it’s worth pre-empting my shows!!!
June 25th, 2009 at 8:51 pmweird seeing keith do this…
Personally I think the Dems would pick up a third of the repub and independent voters if they just dumped gay rights issues entirely. This is an extreme minority leveraging way to much political consideration. More trouble than they are worth politically.
June 25th, 2009 at 8:55 pmHey, FreeMarketDumbass, if you’re touting BO as a credible source, you are even more retarded than I thought (and I was hugely impressed – in a sick way – before with your peculiar combination of ignorance and arrogance). As for Faux News ratings, well, about 20 times more people watch insipid BS like American Idol – does that make Simon Cowell more “powerful” than BO? And since your “3 million” represents roughly 1 percent of America, you probably need to consider that leaves about 297 million Americans that view BO (and you)as sad, pathetic, paranoid, sick, perverted, grotesque, juvenile, emotionally stunted, stupid and UN-American.
Plus, I bet Amnda Terkel could kick your ass if if came down to cases. You just come off as a real pussy…
June 25th, 2009 at 8:55 pmFreeMarketLiberal Says:
Maybe you can come up with a far left plan on how to achieve “Social Utopia” faster.
Why would it take a “far left” plan to achieve that? Oh, yeah, I forgot. Because the “far right” plan would involve leaving in a place a system where people treat each other like animals, steal from each other, let the sick get sicker and die, and continue to let themselves be forced to believe impossible things.
It wouldn’t take a “far left” plan to achieve something closer to the “social utopia” you obviously fear. It would just take the will of decent human beings, of which you are clearly not one.
Why do you hate human beings so much? Is it because you wish you were one?
June 25th, 2009 at 8:57 pmamericans love american idol. it brings the family together. it’s the closest restoration of cohesion since the 50s family, the most american & prosperous family of them all.
June 25th, 2009 at 8:58 pmamericans love american idol. it brings the family together. it’s the closest restoration of cohesion since the 50s family, the most american & prosperous family of them all.
Ah, yes, another GOPer who wants to take us back to the 50s, a time when men could beat women in public, and white people could spit on minorities with impunity.
And, FTR, I never watch American Idol. I have much better things to do with my time.
June 25th, 2009 at 9:04 pmI agree! President Obama MUST do an Executive Order in the meantime while Congress hashes it out!
June 25th, 2009 at 9:05 pmIs it just me or is it funny that the right wingers are always saying, “We love our soldiers! Support our soldiers!”, while at the same time, “We only think SOME soldiers should be able to serve!”?
Idiots.
June 25th, 2009 at 9:06 pmlisten, i don’t support rage against minorities, but i do think the daughters in the family need to respect the family like they used to so they dont grow up needing someone to walk up to them, grab them by their thong and give them a much deserved wedgie!
June 25th, 2009 at 9:09 pmKayInMaine Says:
Is it just me or is it funny that the right wingers are always saying, “We love our soldiers! Support our soldiers!”, while at the same time, “We only think SOME soldiers should be able to serve!”?
You’re right. They ought to be saying “Support Our Straight Troops” since they clearly don’t value the many contributions of gay soldiers. Do they even know that if not for a gay man, we never would have won the Revolutionary War? If they really are proud to be Americans, they can thank a gay man for that. They are such hypocrites.
June 25th, 2009 at 9:11 pmactually kay,
June 25th, 2009 at 9:12 pmi find it even funnier that right wingers are always saying “we love our soldiers” and “support out troops” but avoid actual service like the bubonic plague.
the great GOPsby Says:
…the 50s family, the most american & prosperous family of them all.
Please explain “most American” to me. I find that to be an interesting concept, and I’m sure that further elucidation of precisely what you mean by that will bring a great deal more fascinating information to light.
As for “most prosperous,” progressive taxation was maxed out at the 91% bracket throughout that decade, and union membership was peaking at roughly 35% of national market share. So if you want to talk about why people remember the 50’s warmly, let’s start with those two facts.
June 25th, 2009 at 9:14 pmActually Bozo The Neoclown, it’s funnier yet that they constantly cry “we love our soldiers” while opposing veteran’s benefits!
June 25th, 2009 at 9:16 pmAnd it’s not the least bit funny that right wingers cry “we love our soldiers” when they cheerfully sent our soldiers to fight an illegal and unnecessary war.
June 25th, 2009 at 9:30 pmStory from the old south
The mule was stopped dead in the road. All the screaming and pulling couldn’t get the poor creature to move. The mule was tired, hot and carring a heavy load. A man came by and offered to help the farmer get the mule moving. A little water, a little sweet talking and the mule began to move. The old farmer stepped in, starting tugging and screaming to get the mule to move faster and alas the farmer was right back where he started.
Seems to me if Obama has got the process moving, let him judge the pace. Trying to speed the pace may stop the process dead in its tracks. The military is not in the best of positions at the moment to roll through any major changes. Things are far from perfect, but they are moving.
June 25th, 2009 at 9:33 pmI tuned in to watch Keith tonight, and it was all coverage of Michael Jackson’s death. After I got the boy to bed, I was looking at some videos, and remembered just how amazing a talent he was, the impact he had, and was especially touched remembering his song “Man in the Mirror” and that it was written during the original “compassionate conservative” years… the reign of Reagan.
Indulge me while I share some of the lyrics for any who don’t remember:
I’m Gonna Make A Change,
For Once In My Life
It’s Gonna Feel Real Good,
Gonna Make A Difference
Gonna Make It Right . . .
As I, Turn Up The Collar On My
Favourite Winter Coat
This Wind Is Blowin’ My Mind
I See The Kids In The Street,
With Not Enough To Eat
Who Am I, To Be Blind?
Pretending Not To See
Their Needs
A Summer’s Disregard,
A Broken Bottle Top
And A One Man’s Soul
They Follow Each Other On
The Wind Ya’ Know
‘Cause They Got Nowhere
To Go
That’s Why I Want You To
Know
I’m Starting With The Man In
The Mirror
I’m Asking Him To Change
His Ways
And No Message Could Have
Been Any Clearer
If You Wanna Make The World
A Better Place
Take A Look At Yourself, And
Then Make A Change
I’ve Been A Victim Of A Selfish
Kind Of Love
It’s Time That I Realize
That There Are Some With No
Home, Not A Nickel To Loan
Could It Be Really Me,
Pretending That They’re Not
Alone?
A Willow Deeply Scarred,
Somebody’s Broken Heart
And A Washed-Out Dream
They Follow The Pattern Of
The Wind, Ya’ See
Cause They Got No Place
To Be
That’s Why I’m Starting With
Me
I’m Starting With The Man In
The Mirror
I’m Asking Him To Change
His Ways
And No Message Could Have
Been Any Clearer
If You Wanna Make The World
A Better Place
Take A Look At Yourself And
Then Make A Change
RIP, Michael.
PEACE
June 25th, 2009 at 9:37 pmTo Wayne, his lovely wife Jane, and Bozo the Neocon Clown (your name still cracks me up!)….
*thumbs up* to your comments above. The right wingers don’t give a crap about our soldiers. They say they do, but they don’t.
;-)
June 25th, 2009 at 9:39 pmthank you, mom…
one of our favorites… my daughter and me…
June 25th, 2009 at 9:41 pmMy father was a tank Sargent in the Army back in the late 50’s/early 60’s and to this day he always says proudly of his soldiers, “They were like the characters of Welcome Back Kotter“, meaning, they were made up of all types of people and my father cared for them anyway! He still does. One of them has been his good friend for over 50 years now.
June 25th, 2009 at 9:43 pmflight Says:
to roll through any major changes. Things are far from perfect, but they are moving.
I have yet to see any movement on LGBT issues from this administration.
June 25th, 2009 at 9:45 pmMy two most favorite songs by Michael Jackson…
Rock With You - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hK3Y1Ehv9c
Billy Jean – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=En-cHBv7UpA
June 25th, 2009 at 9:45 pmtoo many to count!
but the ONLY song of MJs i did NOT like was “Ben”…
he sang it well, but it was about a RAT!!! ick!!!
and i was stupid enough to see the movie… … lesson learned.
glad he was not connected with the sequel…
but, my boyfriend at the time had a pet white rat, huge, named Colonel…
June 25th, 2009 at 9:56 pmit and i were never close…
C’mon, doesn’t anybody remember “Goin’ Back To Indiana,” “The Love You Save,” or anything else by the Jackson 5? That kid had a ton of soul, which may have gone a long way toward making his life pretty miserable…
June 25th, 2009 at 10:02 pmI’m crying all over again. Thanks spencersmom and KayInMaine.
Man in the Mirror was one of Michael Jackson’s best songs.
I have so many favorites of MJ’s – The first two that come to mind are Thriller and Don’t Stop ’til You get enough!
June 25th, 2009 at 10:02 pmhttp://twitter.com/JTlol/status/2335025925
ROFFLMFAO!!!!!!!
June 25th, 2009 at 10:04 pmHe’s a “journalist” alright!
June 25th, 2009 at 10:05 pmOT, but that’s nothing new here tonight. Hell, I cut and pasted MJ lyrics for crist sake!
Senator Rockefeller did a great interview on healthcare reform, why we must have the public option, why the industry is investing so heavily to stop it and why the Dems should give up on bipartisanship and get the damn thing passed:
http://sundaygazettemail.com/News/200906250731
I don’t always agree with Rockefeller, but he’s spot on with this one!
Also, as TPM reported today, NPR was at some health forum yesterday or today and, instead of pointing the cameras at the speakers, taped the audience instead. Josh and friends are now helping to identify all the insurance industry lobbyists in attendance. HA!
PEACE
June 25th, 2009 at 10:05 pmModerate Squad, I remember slow dancing at my junior high sock hop to “I’ll be there”.
When was the last time you heard the expressions “slow dance”, “junior high” or “sock hop”? Now that’s old!
PEACE
June 25th, 2009 at 10:08 pmI don’t understand why Obama won’t get moving on the DADT issue. At least sign an executive order. I’m trying to be patient with the Obama Administration. What’s the issue?
June 25th, 2009 at 10:11 pmSpencers Mom, you and I must be about the same age. I remember my junior high sweetie trying to teach mre (unsuccessfully) to fast dance to “ABC.”
Good times…
June 25th, 2009 at 10:12 pmWow Moderate Squad went way back – probably before I was born – LOL
I love you Michael Jackson – Rest in Peace! You deserve some peace.
June 25th, 2009 at 10:13 pmspencers mom, I’m glad to hear that Senator Rockefeller is finally talking the talk. I just hope he seriously plans to walk the walk.
That’s cool about IDing insurance industry lobbyists attending the health forum. Keep us up to date, please?
kayinmaine, thanks!
June 25th, 2009 at 10:15 pmMilitary Leadership has already expressed their concern with open gay culture and behavior with at least the last four Presidents. I tend to believe that they know what they are talking about when they say that it will cause a retention loss that the military cannot accept. Openly gay men and women living in close proximity is the expressed concern. Men and women are separated and there are still problems. How to separate gays from each other in living quarters as well as from heterosexuals seems to be the underlying issue not often articulated in the media.
Its one thing to cry “freedom”. Its quite another to protect it. If people just can’t handle it yet, then they just can’t handle it. Forcing open gay culture upon the all volunteer military is simply not wise. DADT works so IMO we should listen to the military and leave it alone.
June 25th, 2009 at 10:19 pmIf this were a priority to the military brass, they wouldn’t need Congress or the President to make changes. Whether it is good or bad that the military is guarded about itself, and resents civilian imposition on military culture; it’s very, very true. There is nothing to be gained by a rift between the president and the Pentagon. If the Pentagon is not committed to this change, then allowing gays to serve openly could present a danger to gays, because the discipline necessary to make the transition peacefully, comes from the top and is enforced, enforced, enforced.
Right now, the armed services have a terrible rape culture that is not being adequately dealt with, is allowing criminals to enlist, has a large body of burnt-out soldiers who have served three or four tours in combat zones, has gang members and white supremacists, and on and on. It appears to me that soldiers are being abused, and are abusive. There is a basic problem with discipline in the armed forces right now.
Personally, I find the assertion that social solidarity is necessary to operational effectiveness to be bogus, in itself. If social issues are having a negative effect on military functioning it bespeaks a lack of over-all discipline.
The military is in terrible shape, is stretched thin, and is at the mercy of Halliburton. A lot of changes need to be made. I think the president is wise to make Congress work on this issue. While talking to the brass, they need to make concessions so that the military can get what it needs to fix itself, and to make demands so that rape is prosecuted and criminals are removed.
Gays should feel safe from their fellow soldiers when they serve. And so should women. Some changes may have to be made at the top for this to happen.
June 25th, 2009 at 10:20 pmwiley and peashooter – well said. You both have given me a different perspective.
June 25th, 2009 at 10:25 pmModerate Squad, they were good times.
Of course, I was too young to understand the real impact of wearing that stainless steel POW bracelet, and living in a country where Nixon was president. I did, however, realize what it was to have a brother overseas in the Army.
My brother came home safely, as did “my” POW, Lt. Col. Jose Luna.
Looking back, it was apparent early on that I wasn’t going to wind up as a card-carrying Republican like the rest of my family.
PEACE
June 25th, 2009 at 10:27 pmO/T
KABOOM
The Sanford saga is becoming more explosive by the hour. He bought his tickets eight days before leaving and planned to stay for ten days.
THe lies are coming back to bite him in the a$$.
From TPM:
Report: Sanford Booked 10-Day Argentina Trip
By Zachary Roth – June 25, 2009, 4:24PM
June 25th, 2009 at 10:31 pm
Sanford told two HUGE lies at his news conference.
The trip was not a last minute change of plans.
It was not a trip to break-up with mistress, you don’t need ten days to do that.
Stick a fork in that boy, he’s done!
June 25th, 2009 at 10:41 pmReggie – NO way – I already knew Sanford was and is a bald face LIAR but my goodness, didn’t he realize people would find out?! He needs to be impeached just for being a lying idiot.
June 25th, 2009 at 10:47 pmReggie, not only is Sanford done, but he will soon be penniless! Jenny will get the house, the four boys and a huge alimony payment. Markie Mark will get to keep, well, his memories.
HuffPo is reporting that the mistress, Maria Belen Chapur, was here covering 9/11 for Argentine TV. Also, Sanford and Maria were seen cuddling and kissing in a bar over the weekend. Doesn’t sound quite like the break-up scenario Jenny Sanford may have been expecting…
PEACE
June 25th, 2009 at 10:54 pmJeff Bovine Says
Thanks for proving my point, psycho! O’Reilly=journalist. olberhack=not so much!
June 25th, 2009 at 10:55 pmlove you Michael Jackson – Rest in Peace! You deserve some peace
As opposed to the little boys he raped?
June 25th, 2009 at 10:57 pmmoderate squad – of course!
i’ve been a jackson 5 fan since day one! it was so obvious that michael was the star of that troupe… and he turned into a musical genius… as so often happens, the genius got weird…
but the music lives forever.
June 25th, 2009 at 10:57 pmSanford has made my day and I am all smiles.
I finally got something right.
From the Sanford’s Adultery May Be Criminal Under South Carolina Law thread:
June 25th, 2009 at 12:31 pm Add Karma Recommend (3)
June 25th, 2009 at 11:00 pmSoooooooo… How’s that Obama thing workin for ya?
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
June 25th, 2009 at 11:04 pmhere you go, mod squad:
Late Night Music Club – RIP Michael Jackson
Title: I Want You Back
Artist: Michael Jackson (with the Jackson 5)
http://lnmc.crooksandliars.com/bluegal/late-night-music-club-rip-michael-jackson
love it!
June 25th, 2009 at 11:06 pmhormiga brava chavez Says:
You’re right, there was no reason to lie, the truth, although painful in the short term, may have left his political career salvagable.
June 25th, 2009 at 11:07 pmI think he realized he was done like dinner and was only concerned about getting out of the news-conference in one piece.
Someone has to say it and I’ve never been above a little gallows humor…
If there is an afterlife I hope that Farrah Fawcett kicks Michael Jackson’s ass for upstaging her on the day she died.
June 25th, 2009 at 11:07 pmRepublicans Love Facts Says:
——————————————————————————–
love you Michael Jackson – Rest in Peace! You deserve some peace
As opposed to the little boys he raped?
Michael Jackson was proven NOT GUILTY.
June 25th, 2009 at 11:07 pmI think Sanford “cracked”. People who are thinking rationally, Governor or not, don’t do the things he did.
June 25th, 2009 at 11:09 pmHi pete – I thought he was just a callous A-hole but when I watched the press conference I began to think midlife crisis? hhmmmmm? But then I said to myself NAAAAAH – lying prick! Sanford wouldn’t even give an honest answer about if he was separated from his wife. Too many lies.
June 25th, 2009 at 11:14 pmThanks Katy! Kinda hard to believe MJ died before Keith Richards, huh!
June 25th, 2009 at 11:15 pmpete,
No, it has nothing to do with being rational. It is an issue of morality. He simply gave into temptation.
June 25th, 2009 at 11:17 pmJeff Bovine,
That’s odd… then why do the polls now show a majority of Americans are concerned about the tremendous deficits his policies are ringing up?
June 25th, 2009 at 11:19 pmTim – don’t forget the evil inside of Sanford and most of you hateful, shameless GOPers.
June 25th, 2009 at 11:19 pmHe is greedy and that is what has brought about his downfall.
If he had come clean and proclaimed his undying love for the woman, then resigned, history would have been kind. A man who gives up everything for the love of his life is seen as a tragic hero and someone to be admired for having the courage to go with his heart.
Wallis Simpson and Edward the eighth this is not.
June 25th, 2009 at 11:23 pmTim V, what is odd is not that people are concerned about deficit spending – clearly many people were when they started voting the GOP out in 2006. No, what is odd is that the neoCons are only now getting concerned, when their policies made this round of deficits necessary. Let’s not lose sight of who it was that turned a surplus into a deficit – and there is no way you can throw that on the Dems…
June 25th, 2009 at 11:24 pmMod Squad,
Sorry, but there were plenty of conservatives who were sounding the alarm on spending before Barack Obama even thought about running. They were simply ignored.
With respect to deficits – Obama makes Bush look like a PIKER.
June 25th, 2009 at 11:32 pmTim, Obama’s deficits were forced up[on him by the state of the economy when he took it over. As FDR showed us, following a profligate “conservative” administration virtually guarantees you have to pony up more dough…
June 25th, 2009 at 11:36 pmTim Vaculik Says:
A vast majority of the national debt was accrued during during Republican Administrations. George W Bush was responsible for an almost doubling that debt.
Timmie, the facts destroy you argument, but then again, I notice you do not inhabit a fact based reality.
June 25th, 2009 at 11:36 pmWhile we’re on the subject… What we are now witnessing is the OBAMA recession, which shows all the signs of being worse than the one he was trying to fix.
Since he has no clue about how the economy actually works, it’s no surprise that each and every step he’s taking will ultimately cause much more harm than good.
June 25th, 2009 at 11:37 pmTim Vaculik Says:
——————————————————————————–
Mod Squad,
Sorry, but there were plenty of conservatives who were sounding the alarm on spending before Barack Obama even thought about running. They were simply ignored.
With respect to deficits – Obama makes Bush look like a PIKER
Dude, it’s all in your mind. Obama has been like damage control no thanks to Bush’s poor decisions over the prior 8 years. What part of the bigger picture do you not understand?
June 25th, 2009 at 11:37 pmJUST Like there were all those libertarians who voted Libertarian…in 2004 and 2008 lol…
June 25th, 2009 at 11:37 pmReggie,
So Obama DOUBLING the deficit doesn’t count? Nice try, but you aren’t entitled to your own set of facts, my friend.
June 25th, 2009 at 11:38 pmpete – i thought something similar when i heard the news about MJ… maybe he wanted to upstage her… awful, i know…
…
The Moderate Squad Says:
Thanks Katy! Kinda hard to believe MJ died before Keith Richards, huh!
i heard something like that the other night… someone had that message in his obit, or epitaph, or tombstone:
“i can’t believe i died before keith richards”
good one.
June 25th, 2009 at 11:38 pmright, Tim. Next thing you’ll say is that Bush had NO CHOICE but to run up the deficits…
June 25th, 2009 at 11:40 pmFolks, don’t be confused and don’t try to confuse others by mixing up the country’s accumulated DEBT with DEFICIT spending.
June 25th, 2009 at 11:41 pmWow, Tim, if you’d picked up a newspaper today you might have saved yourself some embarassment – the stock market moved higher AGAIn today with the news that the effects of the recession are lessening. No thanks to the GOP (again)…
You guys all said the same thing about Clinton’s economic knowledge. And you were wrong then too….
June 25th, 2009 at 11:41 pmstephen colbert just did an excellent WORD about DADT…
“we’re here. we’re queer. they’ll get to us someday”…
(may not be actual quote)
June 25th, 2009 at 11:41 pmKeep grasping at straws Tim. LOL
June 25th, 2009 at 11:43 pmLook, intuitively we should understand simple economics, especially if applied to our own situations.
I could go out and procure 10 credit cards, each with $50,000 limits and CHARGE THEM UP. It would appear to others that I was pretty well off and I could probably fool others into believing I was pretty smart.
The truth, of course, is quite different. So it goes with our nation’s economy.
That is the reason the polls now show that a MAJORITY of Americans are worried about the level of deficit spending being racked up by Obama and his followers in Congress.
June 25th, 2009 at 11:45 pmSo Obama DOUBLING the deficit doesn’t count?
Poor widdle timmie doesn’t understand the difference between the NATIONAL DEBT and Budget deficit.
June 25th, 2009 at 11:49 pmTimmie, G W Bush was the president when the banks were bailed out but he didn’t have the courage to act on the impeding bankruptcy of GM and Chrysler, he chose instead to dump billions in loans and pass the hot potato off to Mr Obama
Mod Squad,
You have to look at the bigger picture. Sooner or later the markets are going to DEMAND fiscal responsibility. If the President and the Dems in Congress don’t put the brakes on NOW, we will be facing a huge rise in interest rates and inflation.
Sorry, but you just can’t repeal the laws of economics any more than you can repeal the laws of physics.
June 25th, 2009 at 11:49 pmReggie,
Try to keep up will ya? And don’t get me started on the GM bankruptcy issue
June 25th, 2009 at 11:51 pmFreeMarketLiberal Says……
….nothing intelligent, as usual
June 25th, 2009 at 11:52 pmOh well, gotta go. Econ 101 class dismissed!
June 25th, 2009 at 11:52 pmFreeMarketLiberal Says:
Tim Vaculik Says:
Why don’t you go back to Twajie’s stalker blog and let the adults here have civil and intelligent discourse.
June 25th, 2009 at 11:54 pmOh please! Good riddance – don’t forget to take your meds.
June 25th, 2009 at 11:55 pmElBruce Says:
ranus69 Says:
I grew up with both of them.
Who are you, McCauley Culkin? I never met ‘em myself.
June 25th, 2009 at 11:55 pm============
ELBruce, I’m not a troll and yes I grew up with them and I’ve met both of them.
FreeMarketFraud – why don’t you go too! Always posting the same comments about Chicago thug, etc. etc. What do you have a degree in? What? A BS in BullShyte?
June 25th, 2009 at 11:58 pmwe will be facing a huge rise in interest rates and inflation.
Widdle timmie never studied economics 101 at a real university or he would know that the one of biggest fears at the moment are deflation and stagnation.
June 26th, 2009 at 12:00 amHe must have studied at the Herbert Hoover School of Economics.
You TP amatuers got RUINED
Says the moron who cannot spell amateurs.
June 26th, 2009 at 12:10 amI see the silly people are still begging for attention…
June 26th, 2009 at 12:11 amWHY ARE ALL THE RATIONAL, INTELLIGENT POSTERS HERE ALLOWING THE PUTRID LUNATIC FRINGE TO DOMINATE THE DEBATE ON THIS SITE???
THESE STINKING CONSERVATIVES ARE DYING FOR ATTENTION, THEY ARE SICKOS! IGNORE THEM…..AND THEY’LL GO AWAY.
P L E A S E
June 26th, 2009 at 12:11 amI G N O R E
T H E
TROLLS!!!
Do you ever notice that the stupid trolls, both stupid trolls, never approach the subject of why there are no genuine new trolls?
Has the mighty “permanent majority” really been reduced to a handful of creeps in basements, annoying people with utter crap?
At least Timmeh has maintained an identity. But the two sockpuppet Sybils are just sad. Forever trying to prove that two equals many. But then, what can we expect? People who worship morons can’t be very smart.
June 26th, 2009 at 12:13 amdbadass Says:
pete Says:
Finally the Calvary has arrived!
June 26th, 2009 at 12:16 amOT
June 26th, 2009 at 12:19 amI am growing somewhat tired of white seabass. Damn I cut a lot of fish this evening…
How much is a lot?
June 26th, 2009 at 12:25 amfillet/loin weight not whole fish weights
400 + pounds of swordfish
June 26th, 2009 at 12:30 am150 pounds mahi
75 pound white sea bass
65 pounds sockeye
40ish king salmon
200-250 pounds halibut
and then I scaled and gutted a bunch of dorado.
It must be hard on the hands because I assume the fish are iced and you must be wearing a chain maille glove
June 26th, 2009 at 12:35 amActually I don’t. I am suprised they don’t make me. I just wear cotton liners with rubber elbow length glovers on top or closed seal neoprene. I detest the chain maille.
June 26th, 2009 at 12:39 amdbadass Says:
Man that’s a lot of fish. And to think I was feeling tired from cutting 300 lilies.
June 26th, 2009 at 12:43 amThe tiring part is that it is my night gig. I was up a 5 am for my morning regular job. Why so many lilies? Day lily farm?
June 26th, 2009 at 12:46 amDiversified small farm, make a lot from cut flowers sold at local farmer’s markets. More cutting tomorrow.
June 26th, 2009 at 12:49 amDamn, we’re a bunch of hard working liberals.
June 26th, 2009 at 12:50 amI’m surprised too because those knives must be relatively thin and extremely sharp.
June 26th, 2009 at 12:51 amThat is a lot of fish, how many hours does it take to cut that much?
I haven’t cleaned fish for a couple of decades. when I was a kid we had a house on a lake and I was stuck doing the cleaning.
The fish here are rather strong in taste and smell, things like perch, walleye, small mouth bass and bluegill. We ate a lot of it back then and I have no taste for them anymore.
I used to do a lot of that sort of thing. Do you know the Rodale farm?
June 26th, 2009 at 12:52 amI am familiar with a lot of Rodale’s published material, but not their specific operation. Mention of your job always makes me hungry.
June 26th, 2009 at 12:57 amReggie:
June 26th, 2009 at 12:58 amI have a pretty sweet arrangement so I sort of set my own hours. I cut from 6 to ll tonight. The packing crew will be there until maybe 6 am. All the big stuff comes gutted so the biggest hassle is getting them out of the coffins they come in and lifting them unto the table. Shovelling up all the ice and dragging all the boxes out of the room sort of sucks as well.Normally I only have to do mahi, several species of salmon, tuna, sword, halibut,striped bass and currently white bass. All the other stuff usually arrives already filleted, and I rarely have to deal with all the smoked, frozen, and shellfish products as there are only two of us who are cutters and the other dude isn’t all that good. It is a obscure skill but one gained from a lifetime around the ocean…
Mention of your job always makes me hungry
June 26th, 2009 at 1:00 am– sorry but I am eating raw tuna right now. I once interned at the Rodale farm when I was a kid. Very cool place…
Damn, we’re a bunch of hard working liberals
Two hard working liberals and one lazy one.
June 26th, 2009 at 1:00 amI did a “reginald perrin” three months ago and for the first time in my life, I’m sitting on my a$$ doing nothing.
You all take care. I have got to get some stuff done as I have to split on Sunday for a 5 day conference for my professional job and I wanna to be awake enough to hang out with my kids tomorrow since I won’t see them for a week or so
June 26th, 2009 at 1:05 amcheers-
good night
June 26th, 2009 at 1:07 ammmm, tuna…G’nite gentleman, mornign comes early and it’ll be 90 and humid here by 11:00.
June 26th, 2009 at 1:07 amMichael Jackson was proven NOT GUILTY
But according to you loons O’Reilly was “guilty” of what? Which court found him “guilty?”
June 26th, 2009 at 1:35 amO’Reilly settled out of court, did he not?
June 26th, 2009 at 1:46 amRepublicans Love Facts Says:
But according to you loons O’Reilly was “guilty” of what? Which court found him “guilty?”
June 26th, 2009 at 1:35 am
Bildo admitted his guilt when he settled out of court for millions of dollars, on the condition that the tapes be destroyed.
Change your moniker, it’s a lie.
June 26th, 2009 at 1:56 amm. jackson payed off many a parent.
June 26th, 2009 at 1:57 amProbably. What’s your point?
June 26th, 2009 at 1:58 amTim Vaculik Says:
While we’re on the subject… What we are now witnessing is the OBAMA recession, which shows all the signs of being worse than the one he was trying to fix.
I’m not sure what you mean by “shows all the signs” but the economy’s been stabilizing since Jan. 20th, when Obama took office.
.
Tim Vaculik Says:
So Obama DOUBLING the deficit doesn’t count?
Putting Iraq on-budget doesn’t count, no.
Before you go any further with your big lie of the day, please address this pie chart. STFU until you’ve responded to it. Thanks.
.
Tim Vaculik Says:
I could go out and procure 10 credit cards, each with $50,000 limits and CHARGE THEM UP. It would appear to others that I was pretty well off and I could probably fool others into believing I was pretty smart.
You could spend all that credit card “money” on hookers and blow instead of improving your small business. Then when somebody else takes over your small business (that you’ve neglected while spending all of your debt on hookers and blow) they’re most certainly going to have to assume some more debt to fix up the place so it can start making money. At this point, it’s a bit crude (and retarded) of you to now stand out front and scream at them about how all debt is evil.
PS: In my analogy above, “hookers and blow” is the Iraq war. The “small business” is the American economy. I’m explaining this in detail because you are a stupid person.
June 26th, 2009 at 2:03 amOn January 25, Jackson settled a civil suit out of court. He agreed to pay a total of $22 million to Jordan, Chandler, June Chandler (the mother) and prosecution attorney Larry Feldman.
Guilty. Loon logic.
June 26th, 2009 at 2:07 amProbably. What’s your point?
Ask wiley.
June 26th, 2009 at 2:09 amThe troll is so funny.
June 26th, 2009 at 2:10 amWhat’s your point?
Liberal hypocrisy.
June 26th, 2009 at 2:11 am0.Zooey Says:
——————————————————————————–
Republicans Love Facts Says:
But according to you loons O’Reilly was “guilty” of what? Which court found him “guilty?”
June 26th, 2009 at 1:35 am
Bildo admitted his guilt when he settled out of court for millions of dollars, on the condition that the tapes be destroyed.
Change your moniker, it’s a lie.
June 26th, 2009 at 1:56 am Recommend (0) | Report Abuse
——————————————————————————–
0.Republicans Love Facts Says:
——————————————————————————–
m. jackson payed off many a parent.
June 26th, 2009 at 1:57 am Recommend (0) | Report Abuse
——————————————————————————–
0.Zooey Says:
——————————————————————————–
Probably. What’s your point?
———————–
LOL!
June 26th, 2009 at 2:16 amzooey=none too bright.
June 26th, 2009 at 2:17 amReally? That’s so interesting.
I think Bildo and Jackson are about even on the pervert scale, each having paid off victims, but Jacko just happened to win in criminal court.
You know what hypocrisy is? Pontificating night after night after night on morality, right and wrong, family values, religion, yada yada, and then talking dirty to an intern who is not your wife, and who depends on you for her job. Wow. Now THAT’S hypocrisy.
June 26th, 2009 at 2:20 amRepublicans Love Facts Says:
June 26th, 2009 at 2:16 am
It is funny! You can’t even track an argument over three comments. Hilarious!
June 26th, 2009 at 2:22 amTroll logic:
Bildo settled out of court and paid of an intern — not guilty!
Jackson settled out of court and paid off parents — guilty!
Yeah, whatever.
June 26th, 2009 at 2:25 amI guess the troll went off to find a higher wattage bulb…
Toodles!
June 26th, 2009 at 2:27 amFor those unfamiliar with wingerspeak, “liberal hypocrisy” is defined as any change in behavior on the part of liberals.
In wingerspeak, a liberal who exhales is a hypocrite, because he inhaled just a second ago.
The dulcet sounds of Rupert Murdoch in Pain
June 26th, 2009 at 6:42 amSo “change” means that a 50% black guy does exactly what all the 100% white guys have always done?
June 26th, 2009 at 7:31 amYeah, but even the great Quincy Jones couldn’t create a pop star out of OReilly like he did with MJ
June 26th, 2009 at 8:56 amElBruce said:
PERFECT analogy.
June 26th, 2009 at 9:38 amObama never misses an opportunity to turn his back on the people who actually voted for him.
June 26th, 2009 at 9:50 amTis Friday, so out come the rose colored glasses: Obama will sign an Executive Order placing a hold on DADT prosecutions and investigation, retroactive to 1-20-09 on Monday during his meeting with the LGBT leaders!
June 26th, 2009 at 12:56 pmWow…this board is obsessed about queers. If they want to be in the military…go back in the closet where they belong!
June 26th, 2009 at 1:15 pmThe only people in the military that have a problem with serving with open gays are the adolescent-minded straight guys who are afraid that they might find themselves sexualy attracted to other men.
Seems these guys should grow up, then they’d have no problems serving with men & women who are truly qualified to serve.
June 26th, 2009 at 3:30 pm