New Budget Estimate Of Public Plan Proves It Lowers Cost And Covers More Americans
New Budget Estimate Of Public Plan Proves It Lowers Cost And Covers More Americans
A couple of weeks ago, the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) released a preliminary score of the health care legislation under consideration in the Senate Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions Committee. The bill was estimated to cost $1 trillion over 10 years, while reducing the number of uninsured by “only” one-third. As many informed bloggers noted at the time, the cost estimate was incomplete because the legislation that the CBO reviewed did not contain language about a public health insurance plan or an employer mandate.
Nevertheless, Republicans seized on the opportunity to engage in merciless political attacks, citing the incomplete CBO score as proof that health care reform is not worth doing:
John McCain: “[The CBO estimate] should be a wake up call for all of us to scrap the current bill and start over in a true bipartisan fashion.”
John Boehner: “[T]he public option would cost over $1 trillion, and would cause 23 million Americans to lose their private health care coverage.”
Lindsey Graham: “The CBO estimates were a death blow to a government run health care plan.”
The HELP Committee has since added language for a public plan option to its legislation, as well as an employer mandate provision. The AP reports the new results:
The plan carries a 10-year price tag of slightly over $600 billion, and would lead toward an estimated 97 percent of all Americans having coverage, according to the Congressional Budget Office, Sens. Edward M. Kennedy and Chris Dodd said in a letter to other members of the Senate Health, Education, Labor and Pensions Committee. [...]
The [employer mandate] provision is also estimated to greatly reduce the number of workers whose employers would drop coverage, thus addressing a major concern noted by CBO when it reviewed the earlier proposals.
In other words, the addition of the public plan dramatically reduced the overall cost of the bill and ensured coverage of almost all Americans. So what excuses will McCain, Boehner, Graham, and other Republicans offer now? Their attacks were not only found to be baseless, but their concerns about the costs and coverage have also been addressed.
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PAY NO ATTENTION TO THAT MAN BEHIND THE CURTAIN!!!! IT’S BAD! SOCIALIST!! COMMIE!!! UNAMURKIN!! FRENCH!!!! BAD!!!!
Shut up, you stupid anti-American greedhead pukes!!! Just shut up.
July 1st, 2009 at 10:13 pmBut a public plan would mean THE END OF ALL PRIVATE INSURANCE!!!!!!
It’s not fair!!!!!
July 1st, 2009 at 10:14 pmCan someone let the spinless Dems(Conserva corrupts)in on the secret please.
July 1st, 2009 at 10:15 pmNationalize for profit healthcare companies. We want universal healthcare for one and all.
July 1st, 2009 at 10:16 pmSo what excuses will McCain, Boehner, Graham, and other Republicans offer now? Their attacks were not only found to be baseless, but their concerns about the costs and coverage have also been addressed.
whell don’t leave out those DINOs…
and all the other charlie brown dems…
July 1st, 2009 at 10:23 pmI am less concerned what excuses repugs will have – they are in the minority and the public overwhelmingly supports this. Lying liars will do what they do – tell lies.
I am more concerned what some DEMS will say – there have been indications that they were willing to drop public option all together.
Yes, there are conflicting reports, so don’t know what to expect.
Our biggest obstacle for health care reform is going to be DEMS and the curious way leadership (and in some instances obama himself) sells out his base, capitulating to very unpopular repugs.
July 1st, 2009 at 10:23 pmHmm, some good news, no doubt… It’s too bad that MSNBC had to totally black-out the Keith O. show today and force-feed more of this seemingly endless crap about a pop star who passed away a week ago, now. Enough already, MSNBC: this ain’t the weekend when you happily serve up stupid nonsense about prisons and sex slaves…
July 1st, 2009 at 10:26 pmDavid Shuster who hosted Countdown this evening had a nine minute segment regarding health-care reform including an excellent interview Bernie Sanders.
July 1st, 2009 at 10:31 pmHolyshit, Batman!
97% of Americans covered, cost over 10 years would be $600 billion. Less than TARP, which was over less than six months, and benefited no one I know.
These are going to be hard numbers to ignore! I hope the GNOP spends a LOT of time trying to refute the data because the more they do, the more free and wide-spread publicity these numbers will get, and the higher the percent of Americans who want a public option will go.
If we can’t start with single payer, I’ll settle for a well run public option that will have all the bargaining power with none of the profit motive… just the thing to put private insurance out of business. Which leaves us with single payer.
PEACE
July 1st, 2009 at 10:37 pmSo what excuses will McCain, Boehner, Graham, and other Republicans offer now?
These are Republicans, they lie for a profession. Facts don’t mean anything to them as long as their corporate masters can screw the American public and make lots of money for themselves.
July 1st, 2009 at 10:38 pm…
hmmm,
let me run it by
dr. gingrich and see
what he has to say about it.
:|
hmmm.
º: |
July 1st, 2009 at 10:40 pmThey will continue to spout nonsense from the original CBO numbers regardless of the new ones.
July 1st, 2009 at 10:41 pm*
Lefty Liberal Says:
So what excuses will McCain, Boehner, Graham, and other Republicans offer now?
These are Republicans, they lie for a profession. Facts don’t mean anything to them as long as their corporate masters can screw the American public and make lots of money for themselves.
July 1st, 2009 at 10:38 pm
…
hmmm.
really?
…
ok, if you say so.
:|
July 1st, 2009 at 10:42 pm…
oh great,
another virus.
:)
July 1st, 2009 at 10:49 pmThe unhinging of the delusional trolls and wingnuts will continue. They get their information from their alternate universe and the drug addicts and college flunk outs who are the talking heads for Murdoch. Remember, wingnuts are really irrelevant.
July 1st, 2009 at 10:50 pmI heart MILFs
July 1st, 2009 at 10:50 pmmaggieling4846 Says:
Looking for a MILF? Look no further!
Cougars on *** AgelessMate C om *** are exactly what you’re looking for! It doesn’t matter if you are looking for a short term suga mama or a longer journy on a tantric discovery, *** AgelessMate C om *** of Cougars has it all, as long as it’s over 40 that is!
***
July 1st, 2009 at 10:54 pmWhat will Republicans do? One of two options: they will ignore the recent study, and refer only to the one that carries a price that scared some people – or –
they will LIE.
As for BlueDogs — they will pat themselves on the back and take credit.
July 1st, 2009 at 11:00 pmJC,
July 1st, 2009 at 11:05 pmwhy’d ya haf tu go do dat?
Another Joe can’t complain about the subject of the thread so he complains about what Obama might be going to do instead.
July 1st, 2009 at 11:09 pmThe plan carries a 10-year price tag of slightly over $600 billion, and would lead toward an estimated 97 percent of all Americans having coverage, according to the Congressional Budget Office,
$60 billion a year sounds like a bargain. Heck, we spend more than that per year in overpayments to defense contractors. Somebody check my math as I’ve been in the chardonney, but if we have 2.5 million insures under such a plan doesn’t that work out to $240/person/year. Heck, I’ll pay for mine and 10 other guys and still come out ahead. OT: What is a MILF? Am I just uncool and everyone else knows?
July 1st, 2009 at 11:10 pmThanks Faiz for putting up a topic we’ve all been looking for.
July 1st, 2009 at 11:12 pm…
doodle,
another joe = maggieling4846
capice?
:|
:)
July 1st, 2009 at 11:14 pmOutstandingInAPlagueOfLocusts Says:
$60 billion a year sounds like a bargain.
Unless I read this completely wrong, that $600 billion is the total cost for ten years, not per year.
PEACE
July 1st, 2009 at 11:14 pmOops, my bad. That IS what you said…
Time for bed.
PEACE
July 1st, 2009 at 11:15 pmGood one Joe, but you left out Condi.
July 1st, 2009 at 11:22 pmMathazar Says:
Good one Joe, but you left out Condi.
July 1st, 2009 at 11:22 pm
…
’scooz me while i kiss the sky…!
:0
July 1st, 2009 at 11:24 pmI`m with Spencers mom on this one.I really want to see what the re-pukes have to say and what kind of info comes out of their very small tent and don`t be surprised at their tin hats being screwed on to tight.
July 1st, 2009 at 11:37 pmThe repiggies will fight the public option tooth and nail. They are only concerned with the comfort and well-being of their insurance buddies.
Please don’t ever vote for that repiggie trash ever again, not even for local office.
They are all in on this crap, and you can’t trust them, no matter how friendly or accessible some of them might appear to be.
They are all lying crooks.
July 1st, 2009 at 11:37 pmevangenital Says:
The repiggies will fight the public option tooth and nail. They are only concerned with the comfort and well-being of their insurance buddies.
Please don’t ever vote for that repiggie trash ever again, not even for local office.
They are all in on this crap, and you can’t trust them, no matter how friendly or accessible some of them might appear to be.
They are all lying crooks.
July 1st, 2009 at 11:40 pm————————————————————
Can`t forget the HYPOCRISY…..
Awesome. If I’m correct, that means Obama’s proposal for a “down payment” on health would actually cover the bulk of health care reform.
Hey, didn’t a quasi-troll this morning propose eliminating the FDA and Medicare/Medicaid for a reform plan?
July 1st, 2009 at 11:40 pmOutstandingInAPlagueOfLocusts Says:
[...]
OT: What is a MILF? Am I just uncool and everyone else knows?
probably not everyone, and you’re not uncool…
but it IS time you knew (it’s been around a while)
bookmark this site for future reference:
July 1st, 2009 at 11:49 pmhttp://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=MILF
msnbc was screwy tonight… i settle in to watch rachel maddow and the rebroadcast of countdown… both pre-empted for the breaking michael jackson “news”…
now, i discover that shuster is doing countdown NOW – at the same time as daily show / colbert…
sorry, msnbc…
July 1st, 2009 at 11:54 pmTelevision in general is screwy as far as I can tell but it has been a long time since I bothered to check it out…
July 1st, 2009 at 11:58 pmyes, mcwars, on this morning’s FAST thread…
July 2nd, 2009 at 12:04 amEndless possibilities when the common good and the decision to use the tax revenue of we American citizens to promote the general welfare and common good, versus ONE Mr. Jensen’s corporate cosmology model of economic rentier, owning-class dickish-twatwaffles.
July 2nd, 2009 at 12:07 amWho wants to bet their family’s health on the reliability of a “government estimate?”
Costs will skyrocket. You can’t just add 50-million non-paying members to the health care system without somebody else (aka “YOU”) having to pay the tab.
July 2nd, 2009 at 1:05 amSee “Doing some basic health care reform math.”
July 2nd, 2009 at 1:07 amThis could really provide the boost needed to get out of the hype-and-fail mentality that allows the old guard to frame the debate. It’s just the adrenaline rush needed as long as the admin. and other reps and sens. tout this analysis. Get the cameras off the odd couple, Baucus and Grassley.
July 2nd, 2009 at 1:14 ammarwick Says:
Who wants to bet their family’s health on the reliability of a “government estimate?”
Costs will skyrocket. You can’t just add 50-million non-paying members to the health care system without somebody else (aka “YOU”) having to pay the tab.
You’re wrong, troll. The trillion dollar estimate, an impartial, that YOUR ILK touted didn’t even include the public option or employer mandate (read above). People can CHOOSE under this plan to move to the public plan and pay LESS — no, they won’t be permitted to pay nothing, at least most of them — and save money on the BS they’re paying now (advertising, lobbying, CEO pay, etc.).
So you’re knee-jerk contention that this will be a free program is BUNK.
July 2nd, 2009 at 1:20 am“The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people’s money.” Margaret Thatcher
July 2nd, 2009 at 1:20 amIt’s possible for any individual and institution in existence to run out of money, dolt.
July 2nd, 2009 at 1:31 am“We need more revenues.” obama just today
Hmm, where’s those “revenues” gonna come from, obama?
July 2nd, 2009 at 1:33 amRepublicans Love Facts Says:
“We need more revenues.” obama just today
Hmm, where’s those “revenues” gonna come from, obama?
…
stick with newt!
:)
July 2nd, 2009 at 1:34 amThanks Mr. Faiz Shakir.
July 2nd, 2009 at 1:35 amRepublicans Love Facts Says:
“We need more revenues.” obama just today
Hmm, where’s those “revenues” gonna come from, obama?
That sawed-off cola can, you WILL mail to the IRS, bucko!
Or do you feign concern for the 27th-floor billionaires, who I’m sure are your bestest friends.
July 2nd, 2009 at 1:38 am…
bff’s!
:)
July 2nd, 2009 at 1:44 amThe Republicans are grasping for straws to get the public to defeat the plan. The Republicans cannot afford to be seen as obstructing health care with so many people in favor of the public option. If they vote against the Dem plan, they stand to lose a lot of votes from their own party and the middle of the road voters, in addition to the potential 40 million votes from the uninsured. If they vote in favor of the Dem plan, it means they have to sell the lobbyists for the insurance industry down the river and lose campaign contributions. It is a no win situation for the Republicans. If they can get the public to torpedo the health care plan then the Republicans can force a compromise on health care and vote in favor of health care reform without losing the insurance lobby.
July 2nd, 2009 at 1:56 amOval12345678 aka James K. Sayre barfs:
Hmm, some good news, no doubt… It’s too bad that MSNBC had to totally black-out the Keith O. show today and force-feed more of this seemingly endless crap about a pop star who passed away a week ago, now. Enough already,
YOU ARE OT.
Go directly to hell.
I bet you can’t get enough of elvis presley and marilyn monroe. Both are junkies, one is a music interloper and the other a ho.
R.I.P dear Michael
July 2nd, 2009 at 2:18 amspencers mom Says:
——————————————————————————–
OutstandingInAPlagueOfLocusts Says:
$60 billion a year sounds like a bargain.
Unless I read this completely wrong, that $600 billion is the total cost for ten years, not per year
That would equal $1200 USD per year per person. 60 Billion per year div by 50 million uninsured.
***********************
Wow that is a bargain, being that in Ottawa Canada (non profit healthcare) it costs $5,200 per person CND ($4522.96 USD)
http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/story.html?id=e0eb6a52-3735-40ba-84ec-5bc58b9bc524
If you take the original figures from the CBO the math seems to be more realistic. DO THE MATH
July 2nd, 2009 at 2:25 am
evangenital Says:
The repiggies will fight the public option tooth and nail. They are only concerned with the comfort and well-being of their insurance buddies.
Please don’t ever vote for that repiggie trash ever again, not even for local office.
They are all in on this crap, and you can’t trust them, no matter how friendly or accessible some of them might appear to be.
They are all lying crooks.
For real.
The internet revealed what I/we knew about the teabaggers. I don’t understand why they put American citizens (and others) in harm way, whether it’s wars, the economy, the air, the water, every damn thing.
I’m so sick of the three stooges’ mentality of the teabag repugs.
July 2nd, 2009 at 2:27 am…
drill baby drill.
the sandy sanford story.
:|
July 2nd, 2009 at 2:29 amkennedy ltr
July 2nd, 2009 at 2:40 amhttp://www.ourfuture.org/files/HELP_Dear_Colleague_on_Title_I.pdf
a national shame for america not having universal health care for its citizens.
national shame
we have money for our wars for profits but not for medical insurance for our people
this says it all about the american mentality of profits over people
capitalism can turn a culture into greed and materialism
we americans are living proof of that.
please anyone that thinks we are a christian nation is living in an illusion.
we are a nation of greed and materialism and individualism
July 2nd, 2009 at 2:44 ammarwick,
I lived in Britain for eight years under Maggie Thatcher and she was really really hated by a large percentage of the population for doing as much harm as she could to wages, benefits, and the National Healt System. She would not dare propose doing away with their “single-payer”, but she certainly tried to make it worse and more expensive. She never won more than 45% of the vote. The two left-of-center parties (Labour & Liberal-Democrat) always won the rest.
marwick Says:
Costs will skyrocket. You can’t just add 50-million non-paying members to the health care system without somebody else (aka “YOU”) having to pay the tab.
YES you CAN! Every other developed country in the world does, therefore you can! It is because our current system is a bureaucratic nightmare. A fully single-payer would save us $350-$400 Billion every year in paperwork.
http://www.pnhp.org/blog/2009/04/28/a-funeral-dirge-for-private-health-insurance/
“The new system will spread risk among the entire U.S. population. Care will be publicly funded, but privately delivered. People will go to the doctor and hospital of their choice. By eliminating the fragmentation and waste of our multi-payer system, the single-payer system will yield administrative cost savings – estimated at $350 billion annually – sufficient to provide comprehensive and quality care to everyone and to eliminate all co-pays and deductibles.”
July 2nd, 2009 at 2:45 ammarwick Says:
“The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people’s money.” Margaret Thatcher
The UK has free medical services.
You don’t know the meaning of socialism and socialism is damn better than the imperialistic system we have in place now.
Look how easy your chimpy f0ucked up everything. I bet you love that.
I rather spend MY money on bettering the world, especially the US. chimpy didn’t have a problem when it came to NASA and unjust wars, the money flows for his unnecessary projects, killing people and decimating countries.
You will be left behind (thank God) with the rest of the idiots.
Making people well shouldn’t be money driven.
July 2nd, 2009 at 2:48 amGame of Life, that’s what I tried to tell it.
July 2nd, 2009 at 2:49 amGood points Keith!
July 2nd, 2009 at 2:55 amOval12345678 aka James K. Sayre Says:
Hmm, some good news, no doubt… It’s too bad that MSNBC had to totally black-out the Keith O. show today and force-feed more of this seemingly endless crap about a pop star who passed away a week ago, now. Enough already, MSNBC: this ain’t the weekend when you happily serve up stupid nonsense about prisons and sex slaves…
No kidding. Even TV Guide network stopped with the 24/7 Jackson coverage.
Maybe my letter to their VP of communications was one of thousands. I’m glad I wrote it.
July 2nd, 2009 at 2:56 amI don’t know if the CBO could really include all the financial benefits of everyone having good healthcare. Health increases revenues. Illness and disability are burdens on the economy and the federal balance sheet. A million bankruptcies are also costly, etc.
July 2nd, 2009 at 2:57 ammarwick Says:
Who wants to bet their family’s health on the reliability of a “government estimate?”
July 2nd, 2009 at 1:05 am
Many of us are already betting our families’ health on expensive, unreliable health insurance policies. I doubt we’d do worse with the public option.
Piss off.
July 2nd, 2009 at 3:00 amGame of Life Says:
——————————————————————————–
marwick Says:
“The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people’s money.” Margaret Thatcher
The UK has free medical services.
You don’t know the meaning of socialism and socialism is damn better than the imperialistic system we have in place now.
****************************
THE UK HAS FREE MEDICAL SERVICES????
You mean you don’t pay for it indirectly through much higher taxation? Or do you get it really free as a gift from Santa or the Tooth Fairy?
July 2nd, 2009 at 3:03 amLiar republican lobby slaves eating their words, encouraging…
Hospitals, Doctors, and, clinics getting paid what they deserve, not what they want, relieving….
Insurance executives on the corner holding “work for food” signs….PRICELESS!
July 2nd, 2009 at 3:03 amDr. Hussein Matt Says:
Osarah bin Palin continues to perverse the Flag:
http://www.runnersworld.com/photo/sarahpalin/images/sarahpalin_200908_477×600_7.jpg
*not photoshopped*
The shadows are totally screwed up. Whoever did that shop didn’t do a very good job.
July 2nd, 2009 at 3:04 ammgparrish,
Yes the British “pay” for their healthcare, but they like every other developed country in the world pay HALF OR LESS per capita compared to the US. And the US has 47,000,000 paying nothing cause they got nothing.
Read my link at #58, the physicians say we would save $350 Billion annually in paperwork.
July 2nd, 2009 at 3:16 amThe shadows are totally screwed up. Whoever did that shop didn’t do a very good job.
Also did L.H. Oswald in backyard with rifle.
July 2nd, 2009 at 3:17 amJohn McCain: “[The CBO estimate] should be a wake up call for all of us to scrap the current bill and start over in a true bipartisan fashion.”
John Boehner: “[T]he public option would cost over $1 trillion, and would cause 23 million Americans to lose …
20,000 to 40,000 die each year due to lack of access to health care. I have personally witnessed respected hard working souls meet their demise because they were not able to get health insurance. And we have these F-ing GOP freaks looking for any excuse to stall or get rid of the idea of a public health insurance system – because as we all know it would be the death of their party. In no way do I trust the existing insurance co’s to change their ways. Their actions have been murderous since the early 80’s when the for profit nonsense began under Reagan.
I no longer want to live in a country so calloused some can look the other way when the despair of another becomes reality.
July 2nd, 2009 at 3:45 amKeith Says:
——————————————————————————–
mgparrish,
Yes the British “pay” for their healthcare, but they like every other developed country in the world pay HALF OR LESS per capita compared to the US. And the US has 47,000,000 paying nothing cause they got nothing.
Read my link at #58, the physicians say we would save $350 Billion annually in paperwork
*****************
So are you implying that IF that $350 Billion figure is accurate that is how the govt. will be able to cover the existing uninsured for only $100 per month per person?
Certainly paperwork reduction can produce savings … reality check, look at the cost of care in Canada. It’s cheaper than here but they do ration.
I know lot’s of smart folks up there in Canada so one would think that since having a single payer plan up there for around 50 yrs. that they sought out ways to make the process as inexpensive as possible?
I think they have computers up there and looked to standardize paperwork since the govt. is the single payer?
Or are we here in the US the only ones clever enough to reduce 3/4 of the costs just through efficient Information Systems?
If you believe any politican that says we can cover the uninsured for $100 a month per person I got a used car I would like to sell you.
July 2nd, 2009 at 3:57 am.
W A N T
C O N G R E S S
C A R E ?
AMA open to government-funded health insurance option
http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/07/01/AMA.health.care.reform/index.html?eref=rss_politics
July 2nd, 2009 at 4:13 am
mgparrish Says:
You mean you don’t pay for it indirectly through much higher taxation? Or do you get it really free as a gift from Santa or the Tooth Fairy?
You pay for it with the money you DON’T have to spend on premiums each month. In fact, you’d save money.
If you WANT to spend more, go ahead.
And hey, your company won’t have to kick in half of your health care anymore, so maybe with the money THEY’LL be saving, they can give you a raise!
July 2nd, 2009 at 4:16 amhad enough Says:
In no way do I trust the existing insurance co’s to change their ways. Their actions have been murderous since the early 80’s when the for profit nonsense began under Reagan.
*****************
Reagan created the “for profit” healthcare system?
http://eh.net/encyclopedia/article/thomasson.insurance.health.us
Refer to:
July 2nd, 2009 at 4:17 am1940-1960: Growth in the Health Insurance Market
.
Sorry, FAT ELEPHANT time…
ACLU Says Government Used False Confessions
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/01/AR2009070103477.html
By Del Quentin Wilber
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, July 2, 2009
July 2nd, 2009 at 4:18 am
piltdown Says:
——————————————————————————–
mgparrish Says:
You mean you don’t pay for it indirectly through much higher taxation? Or do you get it really free as a gift from Santa or the Tooth Fairy?
You pay for it with the money you DON’T have to spend on premiums each month. In fact, you’d save money.
If you WANT to spend more, go ahead.
And hey, your company won’t have to kick in half of your health care anymore, so maybe with the money THEY’LL be saving, they can give you a raise!
*******
First and foremost you know nothing about my situation.
The fact is I don’t want to spend more money. Reality is many companies will be dumping insurance away from their employees and back on the govt. If they pay the $750 a year fee the govt will impose on them that is clear bargain for them. No brainer to save about $8000 a year or more per employee. This bill does not guarantee employers to keep insuring their employess, it gives them incentives not to.
And if you believe they will give that same amount back in additional compensation maybe I should sell you a used car too. Rest assured I will pay more than I do now.
July 2nd, 2009 at 4:30 am“Reality is many companies will be dumping insurance away from their employees and back on the govt. ”
And if the HMOs want to stay in business, they’ll be scrambling to give you fire-sale prices to compete and pull some of the customers into their higher-tiered care.
They will still want your money, and will be doing a LOT of deal-making to get it. Your prices will drop dramatically.
July 2nd, 2009 at 4:43 amKeith Says:
Also did L.H. Oswald in backyard with rifle.
Ok, I LOL’d.
Now you’ve got me looking for other hidden stuff in there too.
And I’ll give you more credit than it sounded like on that last comment. It’s a cute pic, I couldn’t do better myself, but the angles on the shadows made my eyes go all wonky when I looked at it.
July 2nd, 2009 at 5:15 amThe average “for profit” healthcare industry wide makes about 10 – 11% after all expenses.
http://www.healthinsurancecolorado.net/blog1/2009/06/08/profitability-and-the-health-insurance-industry/
http://www.bizstats.com/reports/corp.asp?industry=Miscellaneous+health+care+and+social+assistance&profType=income&var=&coding=62.5
If you remove profit it **will not** reduce prices dramatically.
Some savings yes, but I refer again back to **real** costs in Canada. If you believe the US govt. will be able to cover the uninsured for $100 per month person by removing profit in the govt. plan and forcing cheaper “competition” I would still like to sell that used car.
It would only drive the “for profit” companies out of businees but not have any significant effect on REAL prices. Private companies cannot “print” their own money and run budget deficits.
Govt. can only lower prices of health care by rationing, this is proven world wide. In the rare cases where there is little rationing in other countries it is because the tax burden is much much higher than here.
And what makes you think this would be any different from Medicare or Medicade? They just keep stockpiling more debt for those programs. They can’t fix the cost problems there … so why should this be different?
July 2nd, 2009 at 5:18 ammgparrish Says:
The average “for profit” healthcare industry wide makes about 10 – 11% after all expenses.
Right. After all expenses.
Expenses which include huge executive compensation packages, lush offices, all expense paid junkets. Not to mention sales and marketing.
And each healthplan has it’s own CEO, CFO, COO, CIO, it’s own layers of VPs, Directors, Managers, it’s own legal and marketing depts, it’s own IT system. Each has it’s own “utlization management” dept, provider network contracting and relations dept. Not to mention the services the plans capitate out to labs, physician groups (IPAs, PPOs)and other ancillary provider groups, who also have their own all of the above.
And then there are the Blues (Cross and Shield) who are supposedly not-for-profits, who pay no taxes and shield profits as “cash reserves” while denying coverage and benefits the same as the for-profits.
And this doesn’t even begin to touch on the profits of BigPharma.
What it all comes down to is that approx. $.40 of each dollar paid into private insurance is used to pay the actual providers of care. It’s about damn time the AMA wakes up to reality. Now it’s time for congress to do the same.
PEACE
July 2nd, 2009 at 6:47 ammgparrish Says:
If you remove profit it **will not** reduce prices dramatically.
July 2nd, 2009 at 7:13 am———————————————————
You forget that profit is revenue less operating expense and G&A expense. General and Administrative Expense includes firt of of all salaries and bonuses as well as rents etc. There is much more to play with than the 10-11% profit left over. They also control the operating loss by deciding what claims they will not pay. You have a very simple minded and elementary understanding of how it works.
The stupidity of the american voter never surprises me.
Nationalized healthcare is UNCONSTITUTIONAL there are no provisions in the constitution that allow the FEDERAL govnmt to even begin to debate this. This is not a DEM. or REP. issue because ALL of the congressional members are there to MAKE MONEY from us.
This bill is a reminder of the unconstitutional, crappy legislation Roosevelt put through during the depression era that is still haunting us to this day. It will do nothing but pad politician pockets and hurt EVERY citizen.
Several states have already tried this approach, Hawaii being the most recent, and NONE of those states were able to handle the budget and eventually eliminated the programs. everyone should realize that when congress gives us the initial bill it is ALWAYS half of what the REAL cost is going to be.
Our congressmen should be looking at the REAL problems of health care, like the high cost of malpractice insurance, and other programs that make healthcare prices outrages , THE FDA.
WAKEUP PEOPLE QUIT LOOKING AT THINGS ALONG PARTY LINES THE WAY THE CONGRESS WANTS YOU TO, AND LOOK AT WHAT THE REAL PROBLEMS ARE LIKE THE IDIOTS THAT WE KEEP ELECTING WHO ARE PADDING THEIR POCKETS AND BECOMING LIFETIME MEMBERS. EVERYTIME THEY VOTE WE GET ONE STEP TOWARDS COMMUNISM.
The power is supposed to be in the states, however, the states are being bullied and overpowered by the federal govnmt and ruining our freedoms.
July 2nd, 2009 at 7:32 amtb1973 Says:
Yeah, that’s not a “party line”.
Step away from your AM radio. Turn off FuxNews. You can thank me later.
PEACE
July 2nd, 2009 at 7:52 amDr. Matt, there is no provision in the Constitution for air traffic control! Quick, shut it down! In fact, there is nothing in the Costitution that allows airplanes to fly, or cars to be driven. Our Constitution doesn’t even mention the internets, let alone radio and TV. No phones, either.
Of course, there is also no mention of private insurance of any kind in the Constitution so allowing private healthcare to continue is just damn unAmerican!
I guess that argument wasn’t so great, was it?
PEACE
July 2nd, 2009 at 8:00 amThere is nothing in the constitution about marriage being between “one woman and one man”, so all marriages are unconstitutional.
(wheeee!!!! Isn’t this fun?)
July 2nd, 2009 at 8:21 amThere’s nothing in the Constitution banning gay marriage, so I guess that makes it as legal as “opposite marriage” now!
Whew! Glad we got that problem solved!
PEACE
July 2nd, 2009 at 8:24 amI will fully support public health care…..right after every congressman and senator promises to use it also. But they won’t. Why is that? If its good enough for us why not them? I want Obama and Nancy Pelosi to wait for a doctors appointment just as long as my aging parent will have to wait.
July 2nd, 2009 at 8:27 amEvery government employee has a public health plan, as does every member of the military, every senior and every disabled person. Hell, employer-paid healthcare is partially funded by the government because it is fully tax deductible to the employer.
There is just so much concern out there today.
PEACE
July 2nd, 2009 at 8:36 ammgparrish Says: (…bunch ‘o propaganda brought to you by the private health insurance industry and their Big Pharma allies…)
Let me guess: you work for a PR firm representing the health insurance industry.
July 2nd, 2009 at 8:36 amb1973 Says:
“The stupidity of the american voter never surprises me. Nationalized healthcare is UNCONSTITUTIONAL”
Rather bold to accuse others of stupidity, then launch into one of the stupidest comments ever posted on the internet.
July 2nd, 2009 at 8:38 amDr. Hussein Matt
Every US politician already has universal health care, numbnuts.
That’s a joke right?
http://www.opm.gov/insure/health/
July 2nd, 2009 at 8:39 amSo we’ll all get the same choice they get?
July 2nd, 2009 at 8:41 amWe spend twice as much as other developed countries on health care, yet achieve worse health outcomes by most measures. This sounds like failure to me, yet Republicans somehow count it as a success. Indeed, Republicans seem to equate failure with success as a matter of ideological principle.
July 2nd, 2009 at 8:41 amjrzguy Says:
So we’ll all get the same choice they get?
What you want, clearly, is failure. You are a Republican, and Republicans crave failure. Fortunately, however, your political party is rapidly shrinking to its core of hate-filled racists and assorted sociopaths, and soon will lack the political power to thwart success.
July 2nd, 2009 at 8:45 amIsn’t it ironic that government turns out to be the only solution for all the problems we created by treating government as the problem?
Heritage Foundation report reveals Torture is GOOD for You.
July 2nd, 2009 at 9:03 amI have to say, I’m getting a pretty good laugh out of reading all of these comments. I have rarely seen such immaturity and anger. It’s actually impossible to take any one of you seriously. Yesterday I tried to have a discussion with some of you and all that is returned is ad hominem attacks. I was hoping to find some civil liberals (as I was sure I could find at least some) and I thought that I had. However, after reading over these comments, even the one liberal poster who I thought was perhaps mature enough to have a normal conversation regarding differing opinions appears to fit in perfectly with the rest of you.
Hey, didn’t a quasi-troll this morning propose eliminating the FDA and Medicare/Medicaid for a reform plan?
-Megaloptera
Of course, I proposed this. And after giving reason for this belief I was promptly ignored by Mega (that is until I was called a “troll”), the commenter Katy responded, albeit with a simple-minded ad hominem attack but a response none-the-less.
Here’s a hint for you liberals, you will be much more effective in your persuasion if you cut out the anger and the meaningless nicknames like repiggies, and repugs. Not only does this show your clear ignorance (as not everyone who disagrees with you is a republican) but it shows a particular lack of articulation.
July 2nd, 2009 at 9:04 amHere’s a hint for you liberals, you will be much more effective in your persuasion if…
On behalf of many in the community, we thank you for your concern.
And here’s a hint right back: It is difficult to take seriously a post that includes both “simple-minded ad hominem attack” and “you liberals”.
PEACE
July 2nd, 2009 at 9:11 amOh, Spencers Mom, you make it to easy.
If you read back over my post the words simple minded described the comment made by katy and not katy herself. Nice try! Next time, some deduction would serve you well.
July 2nd, 2009 at 9:14 amShorter Roark: “Waaaaa! Liberals are meanies.”
July 2nd, 2009 at 9:18 am“I have rarely seen such immaturity…”
-Roark
“Shorter Roark: “Waaaaa! Liberals are meanies.”
-Wayne
Thank you Wayne for proving my point so succinctly.
July 2nd, 2009 at 9:22 amOh, Spencers Mom, you make it to [sic] easy.
Roark, you object to what you perceive as “a simple-minded ad hominem attack” then go on to state “you liberals… show your clear ignorance… [and] lack of articulation.”
And you make it too easy, but again, thank you for your concern.
PEACE
July 2nd, 2009 at 9:23 amDr. Hussein Matt
No, not at all. Try again….that’s the health plan for Federal Employees and their families, which is not the universal health care plan afforded to U.S. politicians. Try again….
you sir are very uninformed. Even when someone shows you the truth you choose to stay stupid. Read on…..
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2009-06-23-congress-benefits_N.htm
read it all…pay particular attention to the seventh paragraph.
July 2nd, 2009 at 9:25 amThe troll Roark seems concerned about the effectiveness of attempts to persuade others. How nice of it to be concerned for the posters here.
Can I see a show of hands from everyone who comes here trying to persuade non-progressives?
I suspect its whole purpose of coming here is to drive traffic to it’s own website.
July 2nd, 2009 at 9:28 amWow that is a bargain, being that in Ottawa Canada (non profit healthcare) it costs $5,200 per person CND ($4522.96 USD)
Agreed from a Canadian….however that cost is split between corporations and individuals through there income tax. The amount you contribute depends on what you make. For an average person making 50k, they can expect to pay about $1500.00 through your income taxes. NO DEDUCTABLES , NO CO-PAYS, NO DENING CLAIMS,NO PAPER WORK, NO BILLS , NO BANKRUPTCY!!!!!
And best of all, we build wealth becuase we are NOT FORCED TO GIVE IT TO INSURANCE COMPANIES!!!!!!
Obama admitted yesterday at his Health forum, that 1/6 of the US economy is based on health insurance. This is the reason the middle class are slaves to corporations when you would not have to pay those amounts under SINGLE PAYER.
THIS WAR IS NOT ABOUT HEALTH CARE, IT’S ABOUT RICH PEOPLE HAVING AN INDUSTRY THAT GARENTEES THE SHARE PRICES OF HEALTH STOCKS NEVER GOES DOWN AND PAYS OFF GREAT DIVIDENS!!!!
IT’S TIME TO FREE YOUR SELVES FROM SLAVE LABOR AND DEMAND THE MIDDLE CLASS GETS A PIECE OF THE PIE!!! You can start with the savings by having Single Payer!!!!
Senator John Kerry….$5million in shares of health companies !!!!! This is why single payer will be hard to get….but not impossible!!
July 2nd, 2009 at 9:33 amWell Spencers Mom,
Since an ad hominem attack is one that concentrates on one’s character rather than on one’s intellect I think it’s safe to say that it is not hypocrisy for me to point out your lack of intellect by saying that you are ignorant or that you have a lack of articulation. Those are attacks on your intellect not an arbitrary attack such as calling someone a troll.
:)
July 2nd, 2009 at 9:36 amAren’t these some of the same players who told us how smoothly things would go over in Iraq and how well things were going over in Iraq when they weren’t. Why believe these jacka$$es now?
July 2nd, 2009 at 9:46 amOur ally Israel has universal health care for it’s people, why don’t we?????
July 2nd, 2009 at 9:49 amThese are the same fear tactics that the republicans used to describe social security and medicare in the 30’s. They were wrong then and they are wrong now.
July 2nd, 2009 at 9:51 amThe reason why the insurance companies are lobbying against the public option is because that will include coverage for pre-existing conditions. None of the current health insure cover those conditions. If the public option is available, then the private insurers will need to cover those conditions and that would be a significant change in their industry. People will not buy private insurance so long as pre-existing conditions are not covered. The insurance companies will lose a lot of people and their profits.
July 2nd, 2009 at 9:52 amThe incoming president of the American Medical Association, Dr. J. James Rohack, said his organization now supports a public plan, after initially indicating its opposition. The AMA supports an “American model” that includes both “a private system and a public system, working together,” he said.
An “American model”? The rest of the first world countries had a mixed model for decades. Is so shameful how uninformed is the US public…
July 2nd, 2009 at 10:14 amThe repiggie slime machine is all over the place on the 24/7 cable “news” channels, trashing the very idea of a public option.
I will never forget how much harm that crowd has done to this nation and to the world. I will never vote for any of that trash, even for local office.
July 2nd, 2009 at 10:27 amVerbalKint Says:
mgparrish Says: (…bunch ‘o propaganda brought to you by the private health insurance industry and their Big Pharma allies…)
Let me guess: you work for a PR firm representing the health insurance industry.
******************
No, I have good private health care and I don’t want want to loose it due to govt. take over. I don’t want to wait in line while I could be in pain waiting for treatment. If I need medical care I GET IT QUICKLY and I demand it quickly.
I find that unacceptable.
July 2nd, 2009 at 11:59 amWhy do people afraid of losing their “great coverage” at work..continue to spout the GOP’s talking points…”government takeover” really…? The (GOP) Senators, House members and the military seem very happy with their “government run health insurance” (the VA has no complaints unless the GOP is starving it of funds, like they do with every “social” program they don’t like..they want BOMBs, bigger Tanks, better guns and faster killing machines..not social programs)…if a government takeover of the Health Care is so bad….why don’t those same GOP Senators want to give up their government run insurance and go get the “better” private insurance…? And why are you so sure Government can’t do it…? Because some wack-o like Rush, Sean, Sen. Boehner, Sen. Graham, Sen. Grassley or maybe the ever righteous Mark Sanford tells you so..? What if a Government Health Care is better..? What makes you think your work coverage will continue?…what if your employers say they don’t want to pay that insurance benefit for you any more…there is no law that makes the employer cover you and the GOP has been chipping away at Unions..so any “Union benefits” are not guaranteed for you, either.. (only government employers have to provide you insurance) Do you work for the government..and if you have one of those government run insurance programs by a government job, and thats your “great coverage” you don’t want to loose, then you are a selfish, deceitful hypocrite
July 2nd, 2009 at 12:59 pmmgparrish Says:
No, I have good private health care and I don’t want want to loose it due to govt. take over. I don’t want to wait in line while I could be in pain waiting for treatment. If I need medical care I GET IT QUICKLY and I demand it quickly.
I find that unacceptable.
July 2nd, 2009 at 11:59 am
I see how it is…You’ve got yours, so the rest of us can just piss up a rope.
YOU don’t want to wait in a line while in pain, but it’s okay for others to die in ER waiting rooms from curable infections, which have gone out of control because they couldn’t even afford to wait in line at the doctor’s office or buy a prescription.
YOU have the right to “demand” quick medical care, but the rest of us should not have that luxury.
YOU are a selfish and uncaring person, and I would hate to see a sick child between you and your pain meds. It would likely get ugly.
I find your attitude unacceptable.
July 2nd, 2009 at 1:07 pmHere’s a hint for you liberals, you will be much more effective in your persuasion if you cut out the anger and the meaningless nicknames like repiggies, and repugs.
Really??? Try walking in our shoes and having to deal with Fu**en idiots like you every day. I’m sure the use of the word Fu** would come into your vocabulary.
So please FU** OFF, unless you can provide a logical solutions to a problem. See no anger, just not willing to put up with idiots on a daily basis.
HAVE A NICE DAY!!!!!! SMILE : )
July 2nd, 2009 at 1:17 pmThis country was built on independence and working to better yourself, not mooching off someone else because you don’t want to better yourself or don’t have the abilities. If you think you can equal the playing field for everyone, our productivity will drop to match that. Any of you so called bright thinkers out there wonder why the US has such a high percentage of the world’s GDP? I doubt it, and it is not because everyone gets treated the same. You want to sit around and whine and have someone else pick up your tab. Wonder why we have the best cancer survival and mortality rates? It isn’t because of nationalized health care. It is because of the research and technology that is developed in this country. The EU countries that have nationalized health care can’t adopt the newest technologies or do a lot of research because of their limited health care budgets. In France, there is a payroll tax of over 18% to fund their healthcare, on top of “sin” taxes on cigarettes, alcohol, etc. Plus over 90% have a private supplemental plan to back up the nationalized plan which has a co-pay of from 10 to 40%, depending on the medical treatment. And they only wound up $9 billion short after all that last year. Way to go people, cheer for mediocrity. It’s all about control and power, the dumbocrats want more power over the people so they tell them they will do for them what they can’t do for themselves because they aren’t being treated fairly and the sheeples fall in line and believe it. As the government controls a higher and higher percentage of the GDP, we are becoming more and more indentured servants.
July 2nd, 2009 at 1:22 pmNo, I have good private health care and I don’t want want to loose it due to govt. take over. I don’t want to wait in line while I could be in pain waiting for treatment. If I need medical care I GET IT QUICKLY and I demand it quickly.
I find that unacceptable.
My friend, wait till you really get sick and use your insurance. You and millions of other Americans have not had to use your policy under real problems like Cancer. You may get cured the first time…and have some huge bills as co-pays and deductables…but what then…you’ll have a pre existing condition…..WHAT THEN???? The door will be open and file your complaints over here.
Mark our words, your time will come…and the light will unfortunately go off to late.
July 2nd, 2009 at 1:24 pmThis country was built on independence and working to better yourself, not mooching off someone else because you don’t want to better yourself or don’t have the abilities.
FUC* OFF….This country was built on the backs of immagrants working for little pay while the rich Fu**ers played with our lives. Blocking unions, undermining equality, creating the FED RESERVE that is not owned by the government of the US.
Individuals and internation individuals own your ass!!! Look up the owners of the federal reserve….you Fuc**en moron!!!
How does it feel to be a corporate slave ….FOOL!!!
July 2nd, 2009 at 1:27 pmYou must like your welfare check while you feel sorry for yourself huh NOLIESPLEASE?
July 2nd, 2009 at 1:35 pmWELFARE….BAHAAAAAABBBBBAAAAHAAAAAAAA
No buddy, I’m Canadian…I don’t need a welfare check. But I heard your country sucks Chinas ass every monday at the Treasury window to keep your counrty going.
WHO’S ON WELFARE NOW ?????
July 2nd, 2009 at 1:37 pmNOLIESPLEASE-Interesting how you are so interested in our country when your own has plenty problems of its own. But then listening to your “intelligent discourse” I can see why.
July 2nd, 2009 at 1:40 pmMy concern is for my family and friends that live int the US. I will not stand by and let Fu**en idiots like you spew lies about our health care system or socialism.
Will you have flowers for China on Monday???? Please sir…one more bucket of money….Please.
Wake up to the reality your previous government has put you in. Third world status is around the corner unless major changes come….and soon. I say that with the best interest for the people of the US. It’s the trolls that curl my curds!!!
July 2nd, 2009 at 1:45 pmjust the facts Says:
This country was built on independence and working to better yourself, not mooching off someone else because you don’t want to better yourself or don’t have the abilities….. mediocrity. It’s all about control and power, the dumbocrats want more power over the people so they tell them they will do for them what they can’t do for themselves because they aren’t being treated fairly and the sheeples fall in line and believe it. As the government controls a higher and higher percentage of the GDP, we are becoming more and more indentured servants.
Try and tell that to people who are unemployed or have no health care. Don’t forget to include the elderly who are paying huge sums of money even on Medicare and the people who have private health insurance but have been denied medical care. You can tell them they are sponging off society and should go out and find a job or pay for their medical care. See how that works out for you platitudes.
July 2nd, 2009 at 1:47 pmjust the facts Says:
Any of you so called bright thinkers out there wonder why the US has such a high percentage of the world’s GDP?
Yeah, and we’ve been told since Saint Reagan that some of that would “trickle down”.
When does that happen?
July 2nd, 2009 at 2:09 pmNOLIESPLEASE Says:
——————————————————————————–
No, I have good private health care and I don’t want want to loose it due to govt. take over. I don’t want to wait in line while I could be in pain waiting for treatment. If I need medical care I GET IT QUICKLY and I demand it quickly.
I find that unacceptable.
My friend, wait till you really get sick and use your insurance. You and millions of other Americans have not had to use your policy under real problems like Cancer. You may get cured the first time…and have some huge bills as co-pays and deductables…but what then…you’ll have a pre existing condition…..WHAT THEN???? The door will be open and file your complaints over here.
Mark our words, your time will come…and the light will unfortunately go off to late
***************
BS. My wife has used my insurance 4 or 5 times for major operations. She had pre-existing conditions before. No issues. Several people I work with have had major heart surgery and cancers as well, they got covered and did not have to wait and suffer, and they did not go bankrupt.
The problem is that you all think putting that “cherry-picking”, coverage denial and those problems that occur cannot be resolved through simple regulation. Why bankrupt our country for our children. Why force others to carry your weight and have their health care reduced to long wait times.
Existing private health insurance can be regulated without creating a nanny state. Real simple, just pass some laws.
I have either had health insurance that I EARNED through my employer or paid for 100% on my own. I wasn’t born with a silver spoon in my mouth. I took control of my life when I was young and did what my parents told me. Stay in school, go to college and learn a valuable job skill so I could earn a living to raise a family and be responsible for myself and my family. Common Sense 101.
Health Care reform? Sure, why not. Make me suffer for those that did not make much out of themselves? NEVER. As long as politicians can rob Peter to pay Paul then Paul will always be happy.
All I hear from this group is about greed and selfishness for those that disagree with them. Is it not selfish and greedy to expect others to take care of you? Even if you get single payer most of you will not bear the burden of the costs. But others will.
The “govt” paying for health care will be not be most of you paying, it will be the responsible people like me that decided to listen to our parents and elders and make something of ourselves.
Want health care, GO OUT AND EARN IT. If you cannot make enough money to earn it that can be fixed. Go back to school. Learn a marketable trade. We can fix health care but IT WILL NEVER BE FREE, the rest of us will end up paying for it.
If health care it is such a right then what’s next, Should I pay your rent? Buy you a car so you can go out and work? Buy you food? No one does it for me? Aren’t these all basic needs?
Socialism reduces everyone to the lowest common level.
July 2nd, 2009 at 3:10 pmjust the facts Says:
This country was built on independence and working to better yourself, not mooching off someone else because you don’t want to better yourself or don’t have the abilities.
July 2nd, 2009 at 1:22 pm
F uck off, loser.
Only a moron such as yourself would imagine that most people in this country are not working as hard as they possibly can — and then blame those same people for not being able to get anywhere.
It’s people like you who piss and moan the loudest when misfortune falls on their shoulders, while the rest of us just keep working.
July 2nd, 2009 at 3:14 pmmgparrish Says:
Want health care, GO OUT AND EARN IT. If you cannot make enough money to earn it that can be fixed. Go back to school. Learn a marketable trade.
July 2nd, 2009 at 3:10 pm
I’ll call up my quadriplegic friend and tell her to put down that breathing tube (somehow) and get her ass to work.
July 2nd, 2009 at 3:19 pmmgparrish Says:
Socialism reduces everyone to the lowest common level.
July 2nd, 2009 at 3:10 pm
So you won’t be accepting your Social Security and MediCare benefits when you turn 65?
July 2nd, 2009 at 3:24 pmIt’s people like “just the facts” and “mgparrish” who have ruined this country — not the poor.
July 2nd, 2009 at 3:25 pmmgparrish Says:
BS. My wife has used my insurance 4 or 5 times for major operations….
Want health care, GO OUT AND EARN IT. If you cannot make enough money to earn it that can be fixed. Go back to school. Learn a marketable trade. We can fix health care but IT WILL NEVER BE FREE, the rest of us will end up paying for it.
A number of years ago I had United Health Care and they did not pay on any claims until you spent hours on the phone with a representative. The did not pay claims on a timely basis which resulted in people getting sued or bad credit ratings for failure to pay their medical bills that should have been paid by United. Some day you may find your employer’s health care changed and then you will experience what is happening to many people. You are living in a cloud if you think everyone has health care through their employer or that the plans are as good as yours. You experiences are not the norm.
Insurance companies are going to fight any reforms that require them to pay for pre-existing conditions. If a state tries to force the issue, the insurance company stops writing insurance in the state. That is exactly what State Farm is doing in Florida because of the hurricanes.
Your statements that people should go out and earn better health care are founded in the belief that everyone can find health care as good as yours. Nothing could be further from the truth. The people have very little choice when it comes to health care, especially if the employer provides plans on the cheap. Even worse, are the people who are bankrupted by medical expenses that are not covered. Don’t forget that insurance has a lifetime max of $1,000,000.00. Once your policy hits that limit you are on your own. Talk to people on Medicare who can barely afford the premiums and copays because they are on Social Security. Don’t suggest that these people should have saved more money for retirement because there are many people who are barely making their bills. In some cases, the lower paid workers can barely afford to live even if husband and wife work. There are 40 million uninsured people so you tell them they are on their own and that health care is a privilege and not a right.
July 2nd, 2009 at 3:26 pmpags2
Like I said, let’s fix health care. Sure insurance companies will fight reforms, but wiping them out and getting it from our govt. is not the answer. I’m not lucky because I have things, I worked and earned it. No one handed it to me. Makes more sense to lift up 1/4 the population than force down the other 3/4. But it must start with the individual.
July 2nd, 2009 at 3:47 pmmgparrish Says:
pags2
Like I said, let’s fix health care. Sure insurance companies will fight reforms, but wiping them out and getting it from our govt. is not the answer. I’m not lucky because I have things, I worked and earned it. No one handed it to me. Makes more sense to lift up 1/4 the population than force down the other 3/4. But it must start with the individual.
In order to make the insurance reforms the federal government would have to step in and take over insurance regulation which is now being handled by the states. Insurance companies who are forced to cover pre-existing conditions will stop writing insurance because it will not longer be immensely profitable. The companies that do write health insurance will jack up the premiums for employers and employees so high that company provided health care will be prohibitive. The public option will not wipe out insurance companies, but it will force them to compete with a plan that is much better than what the companies currently offer.
You speak as if everyone is being handed something for nothing. That is not true. When I worked for an insurance company dealing with disabilities, I saw many people who were bankrupted because their claims were not covered or the out of pocket was very high. I am talking about average middle class people who have health care. Now imagine what it is like for people who are now unemployed without medical care or poor people who have limited access to health care. It is no wonder why people use emergency rooms as their primary medical provider. You should inquire what sort of medical plan your employer has after you retire and are using Medicare. The premiums for private insurance for my parents when they retired were obscene. My father worked as a truck driver his whole life. I recommend you read up on Medicare and see what they actually pay for as opposed to what you must pay.
July 2nd, 2009 at 4:04 pmI would hope the American people can see thru Obama’s proposed solution to what is more important…..”The longterm Consequences of Obamacare”….don’t be fooled by Obama’s staged public appearances and his pre-arranged audiences…he’s manipulating the viewer’s and preying upon the emotions of the American citizenry.
July 2nd, 2009 at 4:08 pmI keep asking myself one question….which policies that have come out of the Obama adminstration are working as of this date?……this President has spent more money since he entered office than all Presidents over the past 100 years and he’s only been in 6 months…yikes?? And that’s quite a statement, following “W” the last 8 years….”W”’s actuals look like a drop in the bucket compared to Obama’s unprecedented spending and we’re only 6 months into this….
Yes, we certainly DO NEED healthcare reform….however….is it worth blowing up your house because you have a leaky roof? I think NOT…so let’s take a look at Obamacare more carefully….upon the realization, of course, that nothing he has done so far has worked….but, HE DOES, enjoy his teleprompter and his prepared lectures…but then, that’s what he’s been doing with his life since 1992…so he should be good at it..he’s had alot of practice.
Let’s hypothesize that Obama gets his wish and his Healthcare Plan passes….healthcare competition as we have it currently…is a competitive playing field between insurance companies who charge policy fees to cover expenses and make a profit…that’s acceptable business practice. Enter, the Federal government’s insurance plan covering massively more people starved for health care and treatments….yes, government insured citizens will be covered for much less than private companies can afford to offer…..however, the expense of this will be to ensure the END of PRIVATE INSURERS…can’t make a profit?…can’t stay in business…Obama wants YOU to think YOU will still maintain the right to choose…..WELL, in theory, that sounds nice…HOWEVER…that won’t happen……because the private companies will be driven out of business….there is “no freedom” to choose when there’s only one place to get healthcare coverage..why will this happen?…due to lower policy costs thru the Fed. gov. private companies won’t be able to compete. Now, just think of how long it takes currently to get in and see your DR…with the system slammed with all the currently uninsured….it won’t be possible to see a dr without waiting….once you do……get back in line……for another wait for whatever tests you may need….because there will be many in front of you…after that….get back in line, with perhaps months and months of waiting, for another appt with the dr and the needed treatment…..now, I ask, try telling cancer to “hold up” for all these waiting lines. That’s the reality of Obamacare….with a 21% cut in Medicare reimbursement to Dr’s under Obama currently….Dr’s are less than excited about entering “medicine” and it will only get worse….but this is just the beginning….people will die waiting under public healthcare (just look at Canadians who come here for treatment)…and in particular, the elderly and urgent care patients(he wants to kill us off anyway…it’s the drag on medicare and social security particularly with all the baby boomers getting ready to retire..and we know the elderly need more medical care as a rule so easier just to kill us in an indirect way)….so are your wheels turning yet?…yes…well…here’s the real consequences…and one more..and this is real important….once the Fed gov has driven all the private insurance companies out of business….Public Healthcare will be a monopoly…in other words….only one place to get insurance…and therein lies ‘MASSIVE EXPLOITATION OF THE AMERICAN TAXPAYER” thru government required individual healthcare policies….and one more way to force unrestricted taxation on the individual…Washington knows what the consequences are….they just don’t want you to know what the consequences are or they wouldn’t have a prayer of passing this outrageous socialist healthcare plan…..
Bipartisian Dallasite Says:
If the best you can offer to this discourse is a regurgitation of RNC talking points then it is apparent you have not read any other posts.
July 2nd, 2009 at 4:17 pmmgparrish Says:
I’m not lucky because I have things, I worked and earned it. No one handed it to me.
July 2nd, 2009 at 3:47 pm
Ladies & Gentlemen, we have here the ONLY man in America who has ever worked for anything he has. Yep, a truly self-made man.
July 2nd, 2009 at 4:29 pmIf some of you would spend the time reading this stuff instead of trying to find new ways to use the same old tired and worn out attacks on Republicans you might actually understand what is happening here. Here are the main points on how these “cost savings” will occur:
*Reduce existing programs (Medicare) and ration it to control costs
*Give bonus payments to groups who successfully ration healthcare and reduce costs
*Increase the cost sharing by the patients
*Tax current employer health care programs
I got this right from the CBO website and the links given in the article.
So the two major ways to reduce costs are to reduce and ration healthcare, and to charge you a bigger share for doing so.
Yep, sounds like a wonderful plan to me. What really amazes me is all of the people who swallow this spoon fed drivel and nod and smile like those bobbleheads in the car windows at everything Obama says and does. It doesn’t take rocket science to see right through this stuff, just a little common sense and the ability to think for yourself. Guess that’s why most of the bobbleheads here don’t get it.
July 2nd, 2009 at 4:44 pmZooey Says:
mgparrish Says:
I’m not lucky because I have things, I worked and earned it. No one handed it to me.
July 2nd, 2009 at 3:47 pm
Ladies & Gentlemen, we have here the ONLY man in America who has ever worked for anything he has. Yep, a truly self-made man.
Everything I have I got because of my devastatingly good looks.
July 2nd, 2009 at 4:46 pmpags2,
Me too, but we certainly aren’t holding it over the heads of the less gorgeous. ;)
July 2nd, 2009 at 4:49 pm“ration helfcare” is a stupid word combo, doesn’t make a lick of sense.
Speaking of worn out attacks, why is a $1.7B-fined corporate felon on TV talking as if he’s in a 1994 comfort zone?
The right has no poll numbers in their favor on reform because people aren’t convinced they have anything to offer. Even among 50% of republicans, broad support exists for the public option.
July 2nd, 2009 at 6:37 pmBipartisian Dallasite
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Well said.
July 2nd, 2009 at 6:52 pmmgparrish,
So are you implying that IF that $350 Billion figure is accurate that is how the govt. will be able to cover the existing uninsured for only $100 per month per person?
Did you learn your math at the same place you learned your politics? $350 Billion divided by the 47 million who do not have anything, makes $7,446.80. This is more than any other country in the world pays! And the range is $350-$400 Billion annually. At the higher end of the range, it becomes $8,510.63. And you could increase the savings by including lower pharmaceutical costs (like the rest of the world).
July 2nd, 2009 at 8:19 pmNOLIESPLEASE Says:
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This country was built on independence and working to better yourself, not mooching off someone else because you don’t want to better yourself or don’t have the abilities.
FUC* OFF….This country was built on the backs of immagrants working for little pay while the rich Fu**ers played with our lives. Blocking unions, undermining equality, creating the FED RESERVE that is not owned by the government of the US.
Individuals and internation individuals own your ass!!! Look up the owners of the federal reserve….you Fuc**en moron!!!
How does it feel to be a corporate slave ….FOOL!!!
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Hmmmm, the Federal Reserve … oh yeah it was an institution created by a socialist er I mean progressive, Woodrow Wilson.
http://www.woodrowwilson.org/topics/topics_show.htm?doc_id=398826
July 2nd, 2009 at 10:00 pmKeith Says:
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mgparrish,
So are you implying that IF that $350 Billion figure is accurate that is how the govt. will be able to cover the existing uninsured for only $100 per month per person?
Did you learn your math at the same place you learned your politics? $350 Billion divided by the 47 million who do not have anything, makes $7,446.80. This is more than any other country in the world pays! And the range is $350-$400 Billion annually. At the higher end of the range, it becomes $8,510.63. And you could increase the savings by including lower pharmaceutical costs (like the rest of the world).
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DUH Did you learn to read where you learned your politics?
If one can comprehend written text it would be obvious that I stated in response to anothers statement as below:
mgparrish Says:
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spencers mom Says:
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OutstandingInAPlagueOfLocusts Says:
$60 billion a year sounds like a bargain.
Unless I read this completely wrong, that $600 billion is the total cost for ten years, not per year.
*****MY REPLY********
That would equal $1200 USD per year per person. 60 Billion per year div by 50 million uninsured.
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Wow that is a bargain, being that in Ottawa Canada (non profit healthcare) it costs $5,200 per person CND ($4522.96 USD)
http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/story.html?id=e0eb6a52-3735-40ba-84ec-5bc58b9bc524
If you take the original figures from the CBO the math seems to be more realistic. DO THE MATH
MY RESPONSE TO YOU KEITH
The $350 million was from the alleged savings by paperwork reduction that was used to “sell” the misguided belief that everyone could be insured for $100 per month just by paperwork reduction.
I did not use $350 million to divide into anything.
MY math is
“That would equal $1200 USD per year per person. 60 Billion per year div by 50 million uninsured.” Which is what this thread was about which I challenged. BTW did you notice the Update to this topic at the top.
“Update Read CBO’s letter here. Jonathan Cohn explains why the final cost of the bill will likely be somewhere between $1-1.3 trillion.”
Seems I was right about this having no reality? Insure ALL 50 million uninsured for $60 billion per year… serious dope smoking going on somewhere.
Good to see someone put down their bong long enough to give that figure a sanity check and fix it.
July 2nd, 2009 at 10:34 pmZooey Says:
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mgparrish Says:
Socialism reduces everyone to the lowest common level.
July 2nd, 2009 at 3:10 pm
So you won’t be accepting your Social Security and MediCare benefits when you turn 65?
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Oh yeah, the other socialist PONZI schemes created by PROGRESSIVE dictators.
But not to worry, if the current Nanny State you folks “on the left” are creating doesn’t bankrupt our country for our children and grand children, Socialist Security and Medicare surely will. But hey, we will be dead and long gone before the kids figure out we are partying on their dime. Bless their hearts.
July 2nd, 2009 at 11:00 pmSocial Security is paid for by the employee and employer. The real issue with SS is because the actuarial tables did not keep up with the changes in lifestyles so more people are living longer. The second reason why SS is going bankrupt is because Congress keeps writing IOU’s for the system while they spend money on other things like the wars. All of the appropriations for Iraq were done as emergency appropriations and not reflected in the overall budget. The country was solvent until Bush p*ssed away the surpluses. And it was not just spending that ate away the surpluses, it was also tax cuts to jump start the economy when it slowed down. Bush intended to leave a large deficit so that the next president’s hands were tied on spending. He failed because he did not foresee the major economic crisis. Now the new president has to deal with a lot of areas that touch on the economic crisis. This wasn’t an ordinary screw up by Bush; it was a major disaster screw up with the economy, the wars and foreign policy. We could tolerate one mess but not multiple ones. Bush managed to not only p*ss off most everyone in the US but he even got the whole world including our friends p*ssed off. I don’t know of any other president that has accomplished that feat.
July 3rd, 2009 at 1:03 amMgparrish,
Your comprehension is that the only thing that would be happening would is that 50 million people would be added to the rolls and this would cost an extra $60 million per year, therefore $1200 per year savings.
But your comprehension is very shallow and leaves out a lot. The cost of the currently-covered 250 million people who choose the public option will be approximately cut in half. If 120 million of these choose the public option, their cost could drop from $7,000 each to $3,500 each, therefore saving $420 Billion. This is just an example, not an exact prediction, but anyone should be able to see what I mean.
July 3rd, 2009 at 9:19 amAlright, I haven’t read through the comments to see if anyone has already mentioned this, but I just wanted to point out that budget estimates by the CBO do not “prove” anything. I’m as excited about the new estimates as anyone, and I believe and hope that they are on the mark, but please be careful with your words. They’re important.
July 3rd, 2009 at 1:33 pmIt is because of the research and technology that is developed in this country.
July 3rd, 2009 at 10:26 pmFitting the square peg Economics into the round hole of Social Engineering is what The Center for American Progress is known to do. Maybe you should rename yourselves the Center for Regressive American Progress (CRAP).
Your profoundly poor economic analysis and extremely fuzzy, made up to suit, off-planet math have got to be the worst ever published.
Its so bad, you aren’t even very good socialists.
Apparently being the laughing stock of the Economics community is your goal. You have exceeded your goal.
Jared “The King of Spin” Bernstein and Goolsbee would be proud.
When the unemployment rate hits +10%, and that unemployment rate becomes persistent, and taxes rise, and over regulation occurs, and no Private Capital Formation leading to Private Sector jobs exists, then add in some Cap and Trade and Socialized Medicine, you basically have one heck of an Economic Train Wreck.
Congratulations! If your going to practice really bad Economics, you might as well be #1.
July 3rd, 2009 at 11:23 pmHaving lived in Canada where I had second heart surgery, I can tell you first hand that a government run health care system makes a lot of sense. I was quickly able to see a physician who referred me to a heart surgeon and within a month I went to the hospital, had heart surgery with some complications after a very successful surgery, and then paid a total of $31 for the 31 days I was in the hospital. As an RN I was able to evaluate the quality of care I got and it compared very favorably with the care I received when I had the other 3 surgeries in the US. McCain and all senators and representatives get government health care as do retired military. I wonder how much McCain complained when he got government run VA health care those many years. But who expects my Senator to be sensible when talking about this issue. If he really believed in what he says, he would not accept treatment from Government funded medical coverage. Otherwise they are phonies!!!
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July 6th, 2009 at 7:28 pmThose of you who want free universal health care, go get a job and purchase your health insurance instead of another 52″ HD TV.
July 7th, 2009 at 10:01 pm