DeMint Inadvertently Concedes That Public Health Insurance Option Won’t Take Over The Market
DeMint Inadvertently Concedes That Public Health Insurance Option Won’t Take Over The Market
A leading right-wing argument against offering a public health insurance option as part of any health reform initiative is that such a plan would drive private health insurance companies out of the market. The health insurance lobby group AHIP called a public option “potentially lethal” to their industry. Similarly, Republican Conference Chairman Sen. Lamar Alexander (R-TN) said in May that adding a public plan would be akin to asking mice to compete against an elephant. “There wouldn’t be any mice left after a while,” he insisted.
Sen. Jim DeMint (R-SC) recently used this talking point himself in arguing against a public option for the National Review. Yesterday, however, DeMint appeared to inadvertently offer an example that demonstrates that the notion that the public plan would drive out competition is false. On Bill Bennett’s radio show, DeMint called blocking health care reform the top Republican priority, arguing that of all the items on President Obama’s legislative agenda, it would be the hardest to reverse. To support his point, he offered “government schools” — public education — as an example. “You can never, with another piece of legislation, change it,” DeMint said:
DEMINT: I think the biggest issue is health care. I think if they succeed in a government take over of health care the situation may be irreversible. It will be like government schools. I mean you can never just, with another piece of legislation, change it.
Listen here:
DeMint’s example of education is instructive, not because it is hard to repeal, but because it’s a prime example of successful public-private competition. Indeed, while state and local governments own and run the public education system — to a much greater extent than either Obama or members of Congress are suggesting with a public health insurance option — private schools are competing against the government and thriving in this country. Further, such competition actually improves outcomes. As the conservative Hoover Institution found, competition between public and private schools “improves achievement for both public and private school students and decreases the amount spent per pupil.”
As Joseph Hacker explains, such public-private competition works well not just in education, but in many other sectors of the U.S. economy:
In many areas of American commerce, private and government programs comfortably co-exist. FHA insured loans and non-FHA loans, Social Security and private pensions, public and private universities–all have long thrived side by side. Each side of the divide has strengths and weaknesses, but in every case the public sector is providing something the private sector cannot: A backup that’s there if and when you need it; a benchmark for private providers; and a backstop to make sure costs don’t spin out of control.
Igor Volsky recently explained the actual impact of having a competing public plan, writing, “In an environment where private plans are forced to compete with a new efficient public program, inefficient, over-bloated insurers will go out of business, but private plans with good networks of providers or better services will continue attracting new enrollees.” Jonathan Cohn has more on the effects of public-private competition.
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Mr DeMint…Rush Limbaugh is on the phone for you…
July 2nd, 2009 at 4:30 pmI know it’s trivial but, this guy doesn’t know anything about mice or elephants. There hasn’t been a wild elephant in N. America in about 12,000 years but we have billions of mice. The smart money is always on the mice.
July 2nd, 2009 at 4:32 pmI still haven’t heard a single right-wing voice, or a troll even, address the cognitive dissonance that, on the one hand, “government-run health care” would be disastrously inefficient and on the other hand, a public option would “drive private insurers out of business”.
Sounds to me like, in order for both of those to be true, the free market approach to providing access to health care has already failed.
July 2nd, 2009 at 4:33 pm“private schools are competing against the government and thriving in this country. Further, such competition actually improves outcomes.”
Are you serious?!?! your argument is that government run health care would be great because look how great government has screwed up public education to the point where people run to private education and pay out of their own pockets and still pay taxes for public education they can’t even use? You are the most laughable bunch of maroons ever assembled in one place.
July 2nd, 2009 at 4:39 pmAsk the folks at FedEx if the USPS has run them out of business yet. Private insurers do not fear a public plan because they believe they will go bankrupt. They fear a public plan because it will destroy the monopoly or duopoly the private insurers enjoy throughout much of the country.
July 2nd, 2009 at 4:40 pmThis is really all about protecting the monopolies that exist in virtually every healthcare market in the US.
The markets have already been “taken over” and opposition to change is to maintain the status quo.
Unfortunately, single-payer was hijacked right off the table. Be careful if repugs get on board, because they may just see to it that the public option does not work and costs you a fortune.
July 2nd, 2009 at 4:41 pmThey know that public option won’t “take over the market” because corporate medical-industrial complex did that years ago.
What they really want to do is to prevent us from talking about the fact that NO FREE MARKETS EXIST IN US HEALTHCARE.
And in virtually every market, one or a few firms have essentially created monopolies.
July 2nd, 2009 at 4:42 pmRalph I’ve been making that same point since the debate over a public option began.
One one hand you have opponents of government run care talk about how disastrous it would be because government can’t do anything right, it’s a hopelessly inept bureaucracy. In the same breath however, they claim that the public option would drive private insurers out of business.
Which is it? I am waiting for a journo with the balls to ask some republican insurance company whore that question
July 2nd, 2009 at 4:48 pmAll the South Carolina repiggies come across as triple-A jackasses.
July 2nd, 2009 at 4:55 pmpaleolib Says:
Ask the folks at FedEx if the USPS has run them out of business yet
No FedEx had nothing to fear from an inept mismanaged organization that operates in the red year after year. That’s why so many people use Fedex.
July 2nd, 2009 at 4:57 pmPublic vs. Private education: good example.
Two more good examples: the U.S. Mail vs FedEx and UPS.
July 2nd, 2009 at 5:01 pmCitizen_pain, ralph doesn’t really have any insight on this and it isn’t about whether they can have it one way or the other.
The way they “catapult the propaganda” these are 2 separate and distinct obscurations that each serves a distinct purpose for different groups.
The crap about how disastrous it would be because government can’t do anything right is just a pre-preemptive strike against single payer. They know the public overwhelmingly supports it.
They know that there are any number of examples where it can clearly be shown the government does things more economically than huge corporations that don’t have to answer to their customers or even the communities they operate in.
July 2nd, 2009 at 5:02 pmThe public high school I attended was just named in the top hundred in the country, private or public, for the 50th straight year. The whole district is among the best in the nation and much of that is because it’s an affluent district.
Several decades ago, when I was a student, there were a dedicated group of us who took endless delight in our academic superiority over the, equally affluent, private schools. The plain fact is that schools that can attract and retain top-notch teachers and provide a diverse and challenging curriculum have the best results. Private or public makes no difference. The difference is teacher/curriculum quality.
I might also add that our public universities attract the best students from every country on Earth. Alas, all that is beyond our stupid pet trolls. They are so obsessed with their paranoid fear that they might have to shell out a few bucks to help people, and thereby themselves, that they can’t admit the many successful government programs.
Public education, Social Security, Medicare, VA health care are just a few. None of those programs are perfect but they are working programs of long standing who’s millions of successes dwarf the few, and often petty, complaints of systemic breakdown.
July 2nd, 2009 at 5:04 pmThis guy might lose his plane privileges to Argentina.
July 2nd, 2009 at 5:05 pm““In an environment where private plans are forced to compete with a new efficient public program, inefficient, over-bloated insurers will go out of business, but private plans with good networks of providers or better services will continue attracting new enrollees.” ”
Hopefully, that would be all of the for profit jackals…
July 2nd, 2009 at 5:07 pmDr. Hussein Matt
Yeah, only on inbred terrorist hick would “think” an inept company would take a letter and deliver anywhere in the country in 2 days for 43 cents. You’re f**king loser
yeah you keep saying it only costs you 43 cents who’s paying the 1.6 billion budget gap. We are you dope. How much is that letter costing you now.
http://www.federaltimes.com/index.php?S=4006401
They compete because they have a limitless reserve….our taxes dopey.
July 2nd, 2009 at 5:10 pmSo the private insureres will have to tighten their belts a bit. great!
July 2nd, 2009 at 5:12 pmJoe, Ralph doesn’t have any insight on this according to… you? I am just as jaded and cynical as you, and I can see your point about sending various messages to various factions of Wingnuttia, but you give too much credit to republicans on this. At least this crop (crap?) of republicans. I do really think there is severe cognitive dissonance on this. Amazing as it sounds, they do miss the duplicity of their own arguments.
July 2nd, 2009 at 5:15 pmhey pete…good for you and your public school. I’m sure there are a lot of good public schools on a case by case basis. Why don’t you ask the people in Washington D.C. what they think of Public Education. Where they want vouchers to go to private schools and are forced to stay in a broken public educational system?
July 2nd, 2009 at 5:15 pmAmericans can look forward to the day when we “privatize” education. McDonalds will purchase all of the public schools, just another form of vertical integration.
If you come from a prominent repug/neocon family, your education will be dumbed down because legacy admissions will get you into a high-class college anyhow.
Everyone else gets their education dumbed down because all the really matters is that the system cranks out better service workers for mcdonalds and walmart. The less they think, the better.
Don’t listen to anyone that says its about how we compete and “free markets”. The “invisible hand” that adam smith theorized about did not really exist back then and certainly hasn’t for the last 100 or more years.
To the repugs/neocons, a “good” education is where there kid gets into harvard based on daddy’s legacy and YOUR kid is a better worker at mcdonalds.
The “private sector” is not about providing goods and services in an efficient way. Look at how we largely have just 2 choices for brown colored water with high-fructose corn syrup… coke and pepsi.
Its a race to the bottom to see who can make the most be delivering us the least and since there is no meaningful competition, the oligopolies/monopolies can do what they can.
We can all see the situation with soft drinks – health care is no different.
July 2nd, 2009 at 5:18 pmjrzguy Says:
Dr. Hussein Matt
Yeah, only on inbred terrorist hick would “think” an inept company would take a letter and deliver anywhere in the country in 2 days for 43 cents. You’re f**king loser
yeah you keep saying it only costs you 43 cents who’s paying the 1.6 billion budget gap. We are you dope. How much is that letter costing you now.
http://www.federaltimes.com/index.php?S=4006401
They compete because they have a limitless reserve….our taxes dopey.
They operate at a deficit because they are required to serve everywhere in the country, because they are required to provide service six days a week, and because the volume of First Class Mail has nearly disappeared because of e-mail.
There is nothing about the Postal Service itself to justify your characterization. But you’re clearly being spoonfed Cato Institute garbage which never bothers taking reality into consideration.
July 2nd, 2009 at 5:19 pmjr z guy
A men in black wannabe.
*sniff*
July 2nd, 2009 at 5:19 pmcitizen – there is no “gotcha” moment here. Even if some of the repugs that mouth talking points do not understand what they are saying, the folks that publish them do.
Asking how they can have it one way and then another does nothing because the folks that do understand the talking points know it was all about distractions and obscurations anyhow.
Trying to reason with dishonest rhetoric is a waste of time and actually keeps attention focused on the lies instead of the lying liars behind them.
July 2nd, 2009 at 5:20 pmOne would think that military men would garner some respect from the Reichwhiners. One would be wrong.
I have a fascination for Generals and have read hundreds of their biographies. I have a particular interest in the Generals of WW2 from all the combatant nations. And there’s a common vein among them all when addressing the subject of American morality.
Almost to a man they comment on how Americans would “waste” valuable equipment and supplies in preference of wasting lives. Even enemy lives.
That’s why we invested in the horrifically expensive policy of aerial bombardment. The bottom line was that it was the way to achieve the most damage for the least cost in lives.
There was a period in the middle of the last century where were, legitimate, the envy of the world. Over the last couple decades we’ve pissed that away through sheer greed. Finance has replaced human cost as the bottom line and, unless we stop this madness? We’re done as a nation and society.
Religious nuts are fond of saying we’ve lost our “moral compass”. They’re right but not in the way they think. Our nation, largely driven by the religious right, has assumed an Imperial stance and has pursued policies that utterly disregard human cost, including our own.
The stance against health care reform, and complete disdain for the many successful models around the world, is driven by the same contempt for life that epitomizes the American religious right. The poor sick souls actually Believe that Jebus will reward them for committing atrocities in His name.
July 2nd, 2009 at 5:23 pmHave a wonderful, safe 4th of July, TP’rs.
…and take a moment, amid all of this political turmoil, to be thankful we live in such a great Country.
We’ll always have differences, that’s what makes us great.
July 2nd, 2009 at 5:23 pmSee ya next week.
Stupid troll. The USPS is, by statute, effectively forbidden from turning a profit.
July 2nd, 2009 at 5:26 pmJoe, why would I waste my time attempting to make a wingnut see the errors of their ways?
They have to be called out so that the public, the people who ultimately will decide this debate, can see for themselves the absurdity of the argument.
You’re a well reasoned guy but you come off like an @sshole.
July 2nd, 2009 at 5:27 pmD.C. makes an interesting example. The simple fact is that D.C. is underrepresented and gets the dregs of any spending. If D.C. had a Senator, or two? I think it would be cleared up in a hurry.
July 2nd, 2009 at 5:29 pmHAHAHAHA the idiot!
Fed-Ex isn’t doing too bad either.
Let the teabaggers pay for the higher option and the rest of us will feel much safer under the “socialist option.”
Everyday teabaggers talk trash about healthcare, the more people suffer and/or die.
It’s a win-win situation for the repugs.
July 2nd, 2009 at 5:29 pmHave a great 4th, Zimzone!!
July 2nd, 2009 at 5:32 pmcitizen – it is pretty arrogant to think that those that repeat the lies will somehow “see the light” because you caught a little “hole” in their dishonest statements.
Perhaps maybe some watch too many courtroom dramas and think that if they could just pose the right questions, the truth will become self-evident to all – NONSENSE!
This is not how propaganda works – it is inherently dishonest communications that has little or nothing to do with logic.
The folks that “catapult” it at you understand this – its time others did too.
July 2nd, 2009 at 5:35 pmSen. Dement ED er Jim, go home and spent a long weekend with your health care and read The Constitution, The Bill of Rights, etc and contrast it with your book and The Reader’s Digest. I’ll bet you’ll find the digest to be your favorite ’cause the articles are so short. South Carolina puts the Dumb and Dumber Twins in the spotlight and the rest of America cringes. Have one.
July 2nd, 2009 at 5:37 pmgummble-bee-itch
They operate at a deficit because they are required to serve everywhere in the country, because they are required to provide service six days a week, and because the volume of First Class Mail has nearly disappeared because of e-mail
I’m given an example of how FedEx manages to stay in business despite the USPS. I show you that FedEx runs a business at a profit and USPS is operated at a loss and is only sustainable do to our taxes and you say you really can’t compare the two. Classic.
July 2nd, 2009 at 5:38 pmpete Says:
Stupid troll. The USPS is, by statute, effectively forbidden from turning a profit
I guess a surplus doesn’t equate to a profit in your book moron.
http://www.nytimes.com/1984/02/19/us/us-postal-service-reports-surplus-for-2d-straight-year.html
Ah those were the good old days.
July 2nd, 2009 at 5:48 pmThick as a brick and denser each day. Call your Senator’s office and ask them how the USPS is structured. It’s a public service, stupid troll.
We realize that your post societal wet dreams make you a hero of liberty, independence, and self-sufficiency but the rest of us choose to live in a civilized country and pay our fair share of the expenses.
July 2nd, 2009 at 5:49 pmjrzguy Says
July 2nd, 2009 at 5:15 pm
hey pete…good for you and your public school. I’m sure there are a lot of good public schools on a case by case basis. Why don’t you ask the people in Washington D.C. what they think of Public Education. Where they want vouchers to go to private schools and are forced to stay in a broken public educational system?
____________________________________________________________
Interesting that you bring up private school vouchers, because a public health plan would operate far more like that than it would operate like the public schools. It’s for this reason that comparing a public health plan to public schools isn’t really a good comparison — despite the analogy being used by DeMint, Ryan Powers, and you.
People who opt for the public health plan aren’t going to be forced to go only to government-run hospitals and health facilities (not that those are bad). They would have access to exactly the same doctors, hospitals, and other health care facilities that the people with private insurance do. And they would get the same quality care. Just as people who attend a private school on a voucher get the same education as those whose families pay out of pocket to attend the same school.
Except public health insurance wouldn’t be a handout from the government like school vouchers (unless you’re currently Medicaid-level destitute). People who get it have to opt into the plan and pay for it.
Now you can explain why you think private school vouchers are a great idea and a public health plan is a bad one.
July 2nd, 2009 at 5:51 pmrepugs if you don’t want socialism then put out your own damn fires, drive on dirt roads and don’t eat any subsidized food.
Go live in a cave, caveman.
July 2nd, 2009 at 5:53 pmSo does that mean if you send your kids to private school, you don’t have to pay for the public school?
Of course it doesn’t.
Most people send their kids to public schools because they’ve already paid for them and didn’t have much of a choice in the matter.
If they were given back that money, maybe more parents would send their kids to private schools. And there would be more of them (competing).
July 2nd, 2009 at 5:54 pmUnfortunately, single-payer was hijacked right off the table. Be careful if repugs get on board, because they may just see to it that the public option does not work and costs you a fortune.
Baloney. I called hansiro on this last night. And I’ve also criticized you for your past hyperbolic statements.
citizen – it is pretty arrogant to think that those that repeat the lies will somehow “see the light” because you caught a little “hole” in their dishonest statements.
Ironic, coming from someone who continues to tar both houses of congress, when it’s really the Senate democrats who are opposed to single-payer. But I know already you won’t cop to your own little deception, because it would invalidate your criticism of those you disagree with. Don’t get me wrong, I also want single-payer, but I won’t lie to make my point. I guess that’s the difference between us. You make overblown statements, and continue to ignore your own hypocrisy.
July 2nd, 2009 at 5:56 pmyeah you keep saying it only costs you 43 cents who’s paying the 1.6 billion budget gap. We are you dope. How much is that letter costing you now.
——————————————————–
I guess a surplus doesn’t equate to a profit in your book moron.
Which is it?
You’re chasing your own tail.
July 2nd, 2009 at 5:59 pmbarfly – if you can provide a linky that single payer is anywhere on the radar, please do…
You are obviously not paying attention, but go ahead and post whatever you like. Your rhetorical skills and understanding of issues does show though…
And thanks for clearly stating that you believe that only one side can be held accountable. Most people understand that meaningful change will demand holding ALL politicians accountable. Nothing positive happens when we give “our side” a free pass.
Glad you clearly stated where you stand on these, cuz people do notice.
July 2nd, 2009 at 5:59 pmYou are precisely right about that.
The only difference is how they are funded.
One is funded through the use of force and coercion and the other through voluntary interaction.
If the private school sucks, you can stop paying for it. If the public school sucks, they’ll probably get even more money next year.
July 2nd, 2009 at 6:00 pmHere ya go, barfly – since you prefer to play loose with the facts, barfly, here’s a link:
Single-Payer Poll, Survey, and Initiative Results
But I don’t expect folks like you to let a few facts get in the way, just like I don’t expect the repugs/neocons to.
But for some reason, you think it is OK as long as people proclaim themselves to be dems…
July 2nd, 2009 at 6:02 pmAnother Joe Says:
——————————————————————————–
barfly – if you can provide a linky that single payer is anywhere on the radar, please do…
Go to Raw Story, and in their search engine, type “Single-payer healthcare”, and “Henry Waxman.” I provided a link to hanshiro, and hooda, and they tried to finesse Waxman’s statements, to mean something they obviously don’t. I’m not going to bother to do your research for you. I have told you where to find the information.
July 2nd, 2009 at 6:04 pmSingle-Payer Poll, Survey, and Initiative Results
Not that you’d click on it anyhow…
July 2nd, 2009 at 6:04 pmThe teabaggers will also be paying for your public option. Maybe you can thank them with a note sent through USPS, because they’ll pay for part of that too.
July 2nd, 2009 at 6:04 pmSen. Jim DeMint (R-S.C.) has come out in support of the military coup in Honduras, chastising President Obama in a statement for what he calls “a slap in the face to the people” of that country. DeMint argues that President Manuel Zelaya was violating the constitution and the coup was a necessary corrective….
The majority of the world’s leaders have condemned the coup, confirmed by a resolution approved Tuesday approved by the United Nations General Assembly.
(HuffPo.)
DeMint — another one whose paratisanship and hatred for anything Democratic (Obama) has caused him to completely lose his mind.
July 2nd, 2009 at 6:04 pmmisscoleopteramolly Says
Now you can explain why you think private school vouchers are a great idea and a public health plan is a bad one
My point isn’t that school vouchers are better. What it does show is the inability of public schools to the point where parents are desperate to get out. The point is that private school thrive because of the quality of public education. If it was so great there wouldn’t be private schools. Your argument is that private insurance will be around despite public health care. I agree, for those who have the money to pay in addition to being taxed for it. Is your argument that public health care will be so bad that, as it is in education, that it will increase the need for private health care?
July 2nd, 2009 at 6:08 pmIn the U.K., they have the NHS, and you can also opt out of it for a privately run insurance programme. It would be the same thing here.
Even Thatcher didn’t try to dismantle the NHS.
July 2nd, 2009 at 6:11 pmBut I don’t expect folks like you to let a few facts get in the way, just like I don’t expect the repugs/neocons to.
But for some reason, you think it is OK as long as people proclaim themselves to be dems…
The use of strawmen is the sign that you’re a weak debater.
You are obviously not paying attention, but go ahead and post whatever you like. Your rhetorical skills and understanding of issues does show though…
Like I care what a blowhard thinks of me. You’re a fraud, who will resort to deception to make his case.
July 2nd, 2009 at 6:11 pmhttp://www.theagitator.com/2009/07/02/you-know-4/
July 2nd, 2009 at 6:13 pm
The point is that private school thrive because of the quality of public education.
Is there a strawmen weaving class that’s on recess?
Private schools thrive, because affluent, and middle-class parents fight tooth and nail to make sure their schools get the newest books and teaching materials, while also making sure that inner city kids just get what’s left over, in terms of funding. and they have the political clout to make sure it happens. Your childlike innocence is charming, but not when discussing real-world problems and their causes.
July 2nd, 2009 at 6:18 pm“The inability of public schools” sounds like a pretty broad indictment. Yet you acknowledged yourself that public schools DO succeed when they’re given the resources and leadership necessary.
So when you argue from the point of “the inability of public schools” (which doesn’t even make grammatical sense) you’re demonstrating that you’re not to be trusted with rhetoric.
Private schools thrive (some of them thrive; some fail, too) because they are not required to educate the least educable of our children: those with learning disabilities or handicaps, those with behavioral problems,those who don’t measure up in whatever way the administrators deem fit.
That can make for a marvelously efficient educational experience, but it doesn’t work as a model for the entire society. Without the social mandate for universal education (which includes all those less-than-ideal students) the ranks of the uneducated and unemployable would climb, our economy would suffer severely and public safety would take a serious hit as well.
Wow. What a bizarre assumption.
There will always be a place for private education. Private education primarily serves the needs of an elite. It is not a model well suited to serve the broader needs of the community for a workforce and citizenry of standard educational level.
You’ve been teetering on the rails this whole thread, but here you’ve totally gone off them. WTF? You seem to be deliberately failing to understand what missmolly (or any of us) are saying, and insisting on recasting it in your own twisted idiom.
July 2nd, 2009 at 6:22 pmI guess another Joe found the proof at Raw Story, since he’s not back, trying to tear apart my assertion.
And when he floats the same turd again in another healthcare thread, I’ll be there with the mayo, to make sure he isn’t too grossed out at having to eat his own rhetorical waste.
July 2nd, 2009 at 6:23 pmbarfly Says:
The point is that private school thrive because of the quality of public education.
Is there a strawmen weaving class that’s on recess?
Private schools thrive, because affluent, and middle-class parents fight tooth and nail to make sure their schools get the newest books and teaching materials, while also making sure that inner city kids just get what’s left over, in terms of funding
But we are talking in terms of being efficient as well as overall results. So how can public schools justify the cost of education per pupil versus private education. Private schools do it cheaper and better. Carry that over to almost every thing our government runs and I think you can start to see why some of us are so skeptical of public health care.
July 2nd, 2009 at 6:26 pmCan I see the data that shows that private schools “do it better and cheaper”? It seems that broad brush work is being employed here. Thanks…
July 2nd, 2009 at 6:29 pmLeave it to Sen. DeMented, who represents my district, to oppose the welfare of the people in favor of the corporatocracy and oligarchy.
July 2nd, 2009 at 6:34 pmI find it odd that someone who has clearly never been in an institute of higher learning, and belongs to a movement that holds intellectuals in more contempt than Joseph Stalin, presumes to use public education as an example.
They are afraid of educated people so they find it easy to dismiss the vast majority of happy, healthy, successful people with public school educations. Or any education that surpasses their own.
Of course, these are the same people who want high school dropouts to receive tax exemptions if they home”school” their poor kids and want federal tax dollars used to promote pseudoscience or blatant religion.
July 2nd, 2009 at 6:36 pmdbadass Says:
Can I see the data that shows that private schools “do it better and cheaper”? It seems that broad brush work is being employed here. Thanks..
well here’s the cheaper….http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/04/04/AR2008040402921.html
I’ll submit the better later…gotta go feed the kids.
July 2nd, 2009 at 6:44 pmOn the other hand, we rank in a statistical tie at the top of the Worlds literacy rates. Since the vast majority of U.S. kids are publicly educated, that would count as a plus.
Where do we start falling behind? Science and math. There are two good reasons for this. One is a de-emphasis on science and math in all schools. What’s the other cause? The insistence of teaching anti-science in all too many private, and depressing number of public, curricula.
As a nation we waste too much turning out lawyers who Believe that Man and Dinosaur co-existed 6,000 years ago. Until we laugh such ridiculous notions from all our schools and airwaves? We will continue to fall behind the rest of the World.
July 2nd, 2009 at 6:51 pmQuality nutrition is just one of the multitude of variables which impact education. The N-dimensional nature of the system is what makes meaningful comparisons of educational outcomes sort of problematic which is why the people who already have an agenda attempt to reinforce that agenda with data which is usually extremely questionable.
July 2nd, 2009 at 6:51 pmPublic schools have to provide educational services to every qualified student.
Private schools don’t have to accept handicapped students, they don’t have to provide mandated programs, they don’t have to follow school lunch guidelines, they can expel a disciplinary case for sneezing in class if they want to.
It’s a streamlined system in a lot of ways, wholly unsuitable for the broader societal goal of universal education.
July 2nd, 2009 at 6:53 pmHow *very* Republican – to tell the truth ONLY by accident or slip of the tongue!!
July 2nd, 2009 at 7:04 pmThese freaks will never understand that all efforts at education, private or public, are useless if students are completing their educations and are unable to perceive reality.
Show me a young earth creationist with a Phd? I’ll show you a wasted education. What a pathetic waste of human resources it is to turn out educated imbeciles. If we could magically disintegrate every church “school” in the country I have a sneaking suspicion that our country would be a much better place within the twelve years it takes for a generation of students to pass through primary and secondary school.
July 2nd, 2009 at 7:06 pm55.barfly Says: And when he floats the same turd again in another healthcare thread, I’ll be there with the mayo, to make sure he isn’t too grossed out at having to eat his own rhetorical waste.
You haven’t proved diddly beyond calling people liars, barf-ly. Here’s the evidence that you’re already screwed, as I said:
History is on my side, barfly. You want to chide anyone for claiming the House dems aren’t as bad as the Senate dems.
Really? That’s your position and disagreement?
Because the House dems have already sold us out by removing single payer, and installing the same greedy incompetence to handle the “new” sh¡t sandwich. There’s really not much defending you can do. The bill is and will be industry-conciliation, as I said. In fact, it already is since the industry stands to not only benefit, but collect subsidies in the dems effort to “require” (read force) all people to purchase from private insurers.
Let me clarify: You’ve already been screwed, barfly. You’re defending the House for keeping the insurance industry in control of the problem. The very people who have caused the disaster are still calling the shots, with a few marginal concessions. You’re having the dems impose, with penalties, an edict which demands that you buy into the idioti who run the insurance industry.
I’ve been looking into this for so long, I’ve forgotten, frankly, that there are still people like you who really don’t understand what is happening or what the industry-owned majority party; both House and Senate, are doing.
Grow up, barf-ly. You could not be more wrong. The House just made a huge effort to kill single payer, and to consign the public to dealing with the same monstrous private insurers for decades more.
You’re basically defending the guys who’ve sold you out without you realizing it. Bravo, sucker!
July 2nd, 2009 at 7:42 pmAnyone condoning present health insurance plans are being paid off. Is there any other product that a consumer does not get full disclosure of the product prior to buying but is locked into paying premiums for a full year ?
These insurance companies get premiums automatically paid by the government from Social Security, then more premium to ensure coverage Medicare might not pay. The Humana company charges full retail cost of drugs against the yearly alloted even tho they pay a discounted price to the pharmacy. How dishonest is that. The Humana rep even agreed it was crooked but oh well.
Anyone against a better health insurance plan is either uneducated or a lobbyist which is the same as Bernie Maddoff.
July 2nd, 2009 at 7:46 pmAnyone condoning present health insurance plans are being paid off. Is there any other product that a consumer does not get full disclosure of the product prior to buying but is locked into paying premiums for a full year ?
These insurance companies get premiums automatically paid by the government from Social Security, then more premium to ensure coverage Medicare might not pay. The Humana company charges full retail cost of drugs against the yearly alloted even tho they pay a discounted price to the pharmacy. How dishonest is that. The Humana rep even agreed it was crooked but oh well.
Anyone against a better health insurance plan is either uneducated or a lobbyist which is the same as Bernie Maddoff.
July 2nd, 2009 at 7:46 pmNow that’s something everyone can enjoy…
July 2nd, 2009 at 7:48 pmCream DeMint is one of dumbest twats in a party chock full of dumb twats.
July 2nd, 2009 at 7:56 pmCream DeMint has also come out in favor of the military coup in Honduras.
Don’t you just love these law-and-order repiggies and their utter devotion to “democracy” around the world?
The dumb twat is probably hoping for something similar here in the U.S.
July 2nd, 2009 at 8:06 pmHe is a dominionist evangelical who has said that the Bible should take the place of the U.S. Constitution.
Any time a Republican states a fact or a truth, it is inadvertent.
July 2nd, 2009 at 8:40 pmjrzguy Says
July 2nd, 2009 at 6:26 pm
But we are talking in terms of being efficient as well as overall results. So how can public schools justify the cost of education per pupil versus private education. Private schools do it cheaper and better. Carry that over to almost every thing our government runs and I think you can start to see why some of us are so skeptical of public health care.
________________________________________________________
1) The reason private schools can operate “cheaper” is because they get to cherry-pick their students. They don’t have to take anybody who’s going to cost a lot, such as a student with learning disabilities, a physically handicapped student, or a student with emotional problems who’s disruptive. Public schools have to accept all these students and teach them.
2) The reason private schools can operate “better” — that is, provide better results, is (again) because they can pick and choose the students they want. And the ones who get chosen tend to be the achievers. Non-achievers get kicked out.
3) Another reason why private schools operate as cheaply and as well as they do is that (for the most part), they are non-profit entities. If they operated with the objective of making a profit, you would see lots of corners cut and tuitions going sky-high. Pretty much what has happened to private health insurers.
4) If we didn’t have public schools, would private schools pick up the slack? Or would we have millions of uneducated people? We have public schools and insist that every child have access to a basic education because we can see the benefit of an educated populace. Employers like the idea of a labor pool filled with people who know how to read and do math. If private schools committed themselves to making themselves available to every child, would we need public schools? Ditto health care. Society is better off with healthy people than with sick people, just as it’s better off with educated people than ignorant people. If private insurance companies focused less on their profits and more on finding ways to make sure everybody could get affordable health insurance, we wouldn’t even be discussing the need for a public health plan. But they don’t. So we are.
July 2nd, 2009 at 9:06 pmLike an elephant competing against mice ?
I thought the prevailing mythos was that if an elephant saw a mouse it would react in horror ?
July 2nd, 2009 at 9:16 pmmisscoleopteramolly, you lay out a very clear argument. dbadass pay attention….I would go ahead and post other examples of your question from post #57 but unless you are a complete loon, of which I have no doubt, I think its a given that private education does it cheaper and better. The question as to why was just laid out for you in post #73.
Misscoleopteramolly, the point I’m trying to make is not “why” its done better that is a whole topic by itself. We agree that it is better…and has been for some time. Government knows that there is a problem but thinks the answer as it does with every answer, it to throw money at the problem and it will be fixed. What kind of horror show are we in for when they take over health care? I have family that live in Canada and I can tell you they ain’t too happy.
Not to mention the bang up job they’ve done with social security, medicare that our children are responsible for in the amount of almost 100 trillion dollars. That is just insane. Let’s get something clear everyone here can call me neo this and troll that…I’m not happy with the job done by anyone at all. I’m just as amazed how many people will blindly follow one person as another.
must have missed this earlier….Post 41
barfly Says:
Which is it?
You’re chasing your own tail.
hey dopey look at the date of the article.
July 2nd, 2009 at 10:50 pmshouldn’t someone be asking republicans and vichy democrats to explain what protecting the profits on insurance companies has to do with improving the healthcare of Americans.
July 3rd, 2009 at 9:41 amPrivate schools also pay their teachers less than public schools. Parents pick up alot of extra expenses.
The ONLY reason Social Security is in trouble is because “borrowing ” has been allowed for other projects, NOT because of mismanagement. Perhaps by taking the good of other country’s health plans and creating our own we can avoid the problems. But people something has to happen. Otherwise the in between incomes will just die for lack of any healthcare. By in between we all understand too rich for Medicaid and too poor for the high price private insurance.
Doesn’t anyone else get angry that taxpayers pay 2/3rds of the premiums for Senators and Reps ? They pay LESS than anyone and get better care.
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