Gay sailor found dead on military base in a suspected homicide.
Gay sailor found dead on military base in a suspected homicide.
Yesterday, the San Diego Union-Tribune reported that the body of openly gay Seaman August Provost was discovered in a guard shack at Camp Pendelton. A “person of interest” in connection to the suspected homicide is now being held in the Navy brig at Marine Corps Air Station Miramar. According to Provost’s sister, he had recently complained to his family that “someone was harassing and bothering him.” According to the Servicemembers Legal Defense Network, Provost likely didn’t report the harassment because of “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell”:
The Navy would not comment on whether Provost’s orientation had anything to do with the death.
“While ‘Don’t ask, Don’t tell’ is in place, anybody in the military who is a homosexual has no place to go to get assistance or counseling,” said Ben Gomez of Servicemembers Legal Defense Network, an advocacy group for gays in the military.
(HT: Raw Story)
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Here we go again. The Right Wing talk media is foisting a level of hate and intolerance that I have never seen in my lifetime. Between Limpballs and Glenn Beck, the craizies are freaking out. And by the way, I don’t think this has hit MSM yet. Their still talking about Micheal Jackson.
July 2nd, 2009 at 11:41 amDidn’t you know? Gays and Lesbians are not only a dangerous threat to traditional marriage but they also want to kill us all and all of our children. *rolling eyes*
July 2nd, 2009 at 11:42 amGay sailor found dead on military base in a suspected homicide.
– - My late father-in-law, a country boy from Tennessee, was in the Navy on a destroyer in WWII. He told me long ago that everyone knew who the homosexuals were on board the ship and most guys just didn’t care. All that mattered was the job. I think he’d be amused by DADT.
July 2nd, 2009 at 11:45 amDADT = legalized discrimination
Discrimination has always been a justification for hatred and bigotry, which leads to violence and death.
PEACE
July 2nd, 2009 at 11:48 amAnd when the Reich wing says this is the problem with gays in the military, it is dangerous for them tell them to STFU. This is the same kind of harassment women in the military often face and several of them have been killed to. It is the abusive, small-minded knuckle draggers that need to go so that all those who want to do an honorable job can serve.
July 2nd, 2009 at 11:48 amThe Navy would not comment on whether Provost’s orientation had anything to do with the death.
Obviously just a coincidence…..yea right.
July 2nd, 2009 at 11:51 amDoodlebug Shayne Says:
And when the Reich wing says this is the problem with gays in the military, it is dangerous for them tell them to STFU. This is the same kind of harassment women in the military often face and several of them have been killed to. It is the abusive, small-minded knuckle draggers that need to go so that all those who want to do an honorable job can serve.
Yes! Don’t blame the victim, ban the victimizer. There should be a DADT policy for racists, homophobes and sexists in the military. Those people should be allowed to believe what they believe, as long as they don’t express their preferences in any way: verbally or physically. Once they cross that line however, they undermine unit cohesion and they have to go.
July 2nd, 2009 at 11:54 amSo much for “live and let live”.
July 2nd, 2009 at 11:59 amWhat do you wanna bet MSM will ignore this? After all it is 4th of July weekend and Micheal Jackson and Sanford is all they can talk about. Another killing, apparently, is a downer.
July 2nd, 2009 at 12:05 pmWell, a right wing redneck homophobe acting out violently on his fears is hardly news anymore.
Sort of a dog bites man kind of story.
July 2nd, 2009 at 12:07 pmMy guess is the suspect(s) will try a ‘gay panic’ defense, and the military will try to keep this under wraps. However, I don’t think people are going to let this one go, just as DADT and DOMA issues are front and center. Not even to mention the Ft. Worth bar raid a few days ago. Disgusting. This country has some ignorant rot we need to get rid of.
July 2nd, 2009 at 12:09 pmSomewhat related to this tragedy, another sorry dose of homophobia occurred last week in Fort Worth, Texas. A police raid targeting gay men resulted in the beating of one bar patron who is now in very serious condition at a local hospital.
The cops’ excuse for the beating? “He was coming on to us.”
In my opinion, the religious bigotries of the cops were at the very root of this raid.
I wonder which Fort Worth holy roller megachurch has been whipping up the homophobia lately.
Here is the link:
http://www.star-telegram.com/804/story/1463260.html
American citizenship does not come with evangelical caveats. Why is that cult forcing its crap down our throats?
July 2nd, 2009 at 12:13 pmprovides yet other reasons to do away with DADT:
Provides a “safe harbor” for those who want to harass and even kill their fellow servicemen. The victim doesn’t even have to really be gay. You can harass a straight serviceman for being gay, even if they’re not, and the victim may be afraid to report it as they would then have the insinuation of a scarlet H (homo) on their service record.
DADT directly leads to a route for security breeches: If it can be used to harass from within the military, what are the chances that it makes gay servicemen vulnerable to extortion from forces outside the military. In short, I know you’re gay and if you don’t give me the launch codes I will…
The equivocating done by the military makes the military look, at best, foolish, and very potentially evil in their statements (we don’t know if the murder was gay related….)
July 2nd, 2009 at 12:14 pmAccording to the Servicemembers Legal Defense Network, Provost likely didn’t report the harassment because of “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell.”
This sailor apparently had absolutely no way to ask for help from the military, without violating DADT — but rest assured, the (alleged) murderer will enjoy the full protection of HIS Constitutional rights.
It’s the American way.
July 2nd, 2009 at 12:16 pmwho keeps leaving the gate to Texas unlocked and letting all the right wing rednecks out?
we really need to reconsider our opposition to “the fence”, and just insist they locate it on the US side of Texas.
July 2nd, 2009 at 12:17 pmAnyone who supports DADT because gays are not suitable for combat has not had their a** wiped by a gay guy . They are no more namby pamby then the next in fact a lot of them are finely tuned fighting machines Probably because they are prone to run into these kinds of situations . I am here to testify having been on the receiving end of an a** whipping
July 2nd, 2009 at 12:17 pmIt’s pathetic that “the most powerful fighting force in the world” is frightened to death of gay men and women.
DADT is another sorry result of the toxic influence of evangelicalism on civil society. That cult is as insidious as Scientology.
July 2nd, 2009 at 12:18 pmevangenital Says:
The cops’ excuse for the beating? “He was coming on to us.”
July 2nd, 2009 at 12:13 pm
So the next time some total asshat comes on to me, I can beat him senseless?
July 2nd, 2009 at 12:19 pmbelief in religion is a mental disorder
July 2nd, 2009 at 12:20 pmbelief in religion is a mental disorder
This kind of bigotry doesn’t help anything.
July 2nd, 2009 at 12:21 pmNo I think what he’s saying is that the racists, homophobes and sexist need to be put under a gag order to keep their ignorance to themselves and if they are unable to do that they need to be kicked out of the military on their asses. They are the danger to the military not gay service members.
July 2nd, 2009 at 12:25 pmit’s not bigotry, it’s compassion
people suffering from breaks with reality need help, and we, as a compassionate society should provide that help
it is cruel to convince someone to spend their entire life preparing for a fictional afterlife
spend your time being good to each other, enjoying the beauty of nature and the accomplishments of mankind, not prepping for a phony future that is nothing but made up fantasy
July 2nd, 2009 at 12:26 pmWhy yes I believe you can! Could I come and watch?
July 2nd, 2009 at 12:26 pmDoodlebug Shayne Says:
Why yes I believe you can! Could I come and watch?
July 2nd, 2009 at 12:26 pm
Of course! We’ll make it an event. ;)
When the cops show up, I’ll just mention that their buddies in Fort Worth set the precedent. ;)
July 2nd, 2009 at 12:30 pmZooey Says:
So the next time some total asshat comes on to me, I can beat him senseless?
Only if you put it on Pay per View, so we can enjoy the show…
July 2nd, 2009 at 12:30 pmI agree, PLC. I’m from California, and we saw how Prop.8 went down, and how faith communities played a role. Unfortunately there is a lot of work to be done for gay rights within faith communities, but that work needs to be done, and we can’t throw out ‘religion’ as some monolithic concept that holds mankind back. We need to be out there and emphasize that religion plays a huge role in people’s life, but it is not in contradiction with progressive values of human rights. This is a chance right now for REAL Christianity to be taking a stand for love and acceptance and not dogma. Faith communities have and will play a fundamental role in gay rights.
July 2nd, 2009 at 12:31 pmRealness, the first step is healing those afflicted with religious beliefs
July 2nd, 2009 at 12:33 pmRealness Says:
Faith communities have and will play a fundamental role in gay rights.
I agree, but even the Methodist Church struggles with this despite trying to be as close to Unitarian Universalists in their all-inclusiveness.
Sadly, the story we get every year from the UMC is that their hands are tied on the issue, because of backlash from the “international Methodist community.” Locally, I’ve had this discussion too many times with the UMC pastor – who’s all to happy to “open a dialog” but still isn’t willing to make waves.
July 2nd, 2009 at 12:36 pmRantingTommy Says:
July 2nd, 2009 at 12:26 pm
PLC is one of the finest commenters on this site, and one of the few true Christians around here. It’s not right to treat him this way.
PLC has never held himself above anyone here, or judged us to be “less than” or “sinners” because we don’t believe the way he does.
I don’t believe in God, but PLC does, and I absolutely support his right to do so. I think PLC supports my right not to believe. This is the United States of America, and this is what we’re about.
Can we save the “mental disorder” designation for the whackjob trolls who really deserve it?
July 2nd, 2009 at 12:39 pmbarracks9 Says:
Only if you put it on Pay per View, so we can enjoy the show…
July 2nd, 2009 at 12:30 pm
Heh. ;)
July 2nd, 2009 at 12:40 pmWhy do religious bodies struggle with the gay issue constantly?
What’s to struggle about?
The Bible is full of the teachings of Jesus concerning love, help for the oppressed and the challenging of prevailiing authority.
Why is it that the Methodists, Presbyterians, etc., don’t seem to be struggling with those issues? Where are those religious bodies on the issue of capital punishment,
access to health care for all citizens, and the obscenity of wealth giveaways to the corporate monsters?
When “religion” decides to grow up and actually take a good hard look at their own hypocrisy in standing by and doing nothing on much more important issues than homosexuality, then I might start to accord it a modicum of respect.
July 2nd, 2009 at 12:43 pmevangenital Says:
When “religion” decides to grow up and actually take a good hard look at their own hypocrisy in standing by and doing nothing on much more important issues than homosexuality, then I might start to accord it a modicum of respect.
Well said. I sang as section leader for this UMC choir for 18 years, but finally left over this. The Methodist General Conference has written in its “Book of Discipline” that “the practice of homosexuality is incompatible with Christian teaching.”
Really? And there I thought Christ taught Love.
July 2nd, 2009 at 12:53 pmI think I would more agree that we should heal those with dogmatic religious beliefs. Organized religion tends toward conservatism and dogmatism, but not by definition, as even the most conservative branches have been forced to change at various points in history. With so many types of religion that are helpful, develop community, and stand up for the little guys- playing parts in civil rights activism, advocacy for the poor, etc. Why are we not bringing to the forefront Unitarian Universalism? branches of Episcopelian denomination? Things change, but people’s need for spiritual meaning doesn’t seem to.
July 2nd, 2009 at 12:59 pmWhy do so many “christians” see two men/two women having sex as a much more monstrous sin than murder, rape, kidnapping, abuse of the elderly, theft, warmongering, torture, graft, etc?
In all fairness, there might be some chance at redemption for some of these religious bodies. It will take a lot more maturity than many of them having been willing to show.
However, the megachurch evangelical movement is a vile and dangerous cult, as big a threat to liberty lovers as any totalitarian movement. This cult celebrates violence, war, gun ownership and subjugation of women as “traditional” morality.
Sick, sick, sick…
July 2nd, 2009 at 1:02 pmCan anyone see my post that begins with “Zooey, thank you for the kind words”? I’ve got a message saying my post is awaiting moderation (and I can’t for the life of me find one little thing controversial in it – not even an “an*lysis.)
July 2nd, 2009 at 1:06 pmzooey, don’t misconstrue my compassion as an attack on PLC
I know PLC and am appreciative of the usual great posts from him. It’s not an attack.
I firmly believe in my heart that the compassionate thing to do for those afflicted with religious beliefs is to try to enlighten them. It is inhumane to ignore their plight and not at least offer help.
I was not in any way at all disparaging PLC. Just declaring my commitment to helping people who need it. Not forcing the help on them, but helping them if they allow it.
To not offer is cruel and very un-progressive.
July 2nd, 2009 at 1:07 pmSorry, PLC. I can’t see it.
July 2nd, 2009 at 1:11 pmUsing the tragic death of a sailor to push a political agenda is pretty pathetic. What exactly is in the news article that suggests that the sailor was killed for any specific reason? What will be the response of those pushing an agenda be if the murderer shares the same sexual orientation as the victim?
July 2nd, 2009 at 1:12 pmand yet, here you are, pushing your agenda
July 2nd, 2009 at 1:14 pmZooey, thank you for the kind words.
evangenital, the Methodist Church IS struggling with those issues. The reason is that the Methodist Church is made up of a cross section of individuals with many perspectives.
July 2nd, 2009 at 1:15 pmIf there was a draft as in my day the gay population for those of draft age would increase at an alarming rate. At least for those whose daddy can’t get them in a safe TANG posting……
July 2nd, 2009 at 1:15 pmRantingTommy Says:
July 2nd, 2009 at 1:07 pm
Tommy, I understand what you’re saying. I really do. But answer this: When the likes of Daryll try to “enlighten” you, do you appreciate that he firmly believes in his heart that the compassionate thing to do for those afflicted without religious beliefs is to try to enlighten them? That it is inhumane to ignore their plight and not at least offer help?
Daryll doesn’t believe he’s “disparaging” anyone when he’s trying to bring we sinners to his god.
I think you take great offense when Daryll does this…
July 2nd, 2009 at 1:16 pm1 down millions to go
July 2nd, 2009 at 1:16 pmI am a Methodist who staunchly anti-bigotry, pro-choice, and pro-gay rights. Other Methodists are more conservative.
July 2nd, 2009 at 1:17 pmTP, your “moderation” SUCKS.
Here’s the coded version of my moderated comment:
I am as opposed to people painting religious people as mentally ill or hateful as I am opposed to people describing blacks as laz-y Welfare recipients or gays as menta**y ill and pedo philes
July 2nd, 2009 at 1:19 pmI don’t remember seeing photos of a single religious group at any anti-prop 8 rallies, nor at any pride parades.
Not one…
By the way, why isn’t young repiggie at #46 serving in Afghanistan right now?
July 2nd, 2009 at 1:21 pmAids kills fags DEAD.
July 2nd, 2009 at 1:24 pmRantingTommy, you say religious people suffer from mental illness. I am religious and, therefore, by your logic I must suffer from mental illness. When did you get your degree and license to practice psychology (I got mine in 1986, if you’re interested.) I am not misconstruing anything. You attacked my mental health on the basis of my having a religious belief that differs from yours. You conflate any religious belief with oppressive, repressive, hateful religious belief. This is by definition bigotry. I have called you on this before and I will do so in the future if you continue to post purely inflammatory comments against religiosity without reference to particular dogma and harm done to others.
July 2nd, 2009 at 1:26 pmIs this statement intended to mean that Jesus was Ok with sin, that Jesus tolerated immorality? Where would one find that Jesus ever suggested that less than the best behavior was acceptable to Him?
Jesus was the teacher who said if a man lusts after a woman he commits adultery and if a man hates he commits murder. Christ is saying that action and attitude are important.
Furthermore, when Christ said what He said about adultery and murder, He was appealing to the prevailing authority: the Old Testament. Even Christ speaking the “Golden Rule” is a quote from Leviticus 19.
Since bit’s understanding of the Bible is somewhat limited, he would appreciate knowing where the Bible suggests that homosexuals were oppressed in the time of Christ.
Christ spoke about adultery and murder in Matthew 5. Christ said that the Creator’s intent was that a man and a woman would be one flesh in marriage in Matthew 19.
July 2nd, 2009 at 1:26 pmTwo different kinds of ignorance on this thread. It’s interesting to see them on a spectrum of ignorance- where they’re the same and where they’re different.
July 2nd, 2009 at 1:27 pmAtheists are all closet queers, thats why they hate god.
July 2nd, 2009 at 1:28 pmzooey, the difference is simple: reality vs fantasy
I get offended when people offer obvious fantasy as reality
PLC, I am not being hateful and comparing religious CHOICE to being black is incorrect
people CHOOSE to believe in religious fantasy
let’s put it a different way: I respect the believer, but not the beliefs. as a rational human being, I simply cannot respect the beliefs.
the idea that Christians are somehow an oppressed group in this country is just plain silly
rationalists have been discriminated against heavily since the 50s, with a resurgence of anti-rationalism under Dubya and his mentally ill evangelicals
when I state that belief in religion is a mental disorder, I am not disparaging the person suffering from the delusions
I wish more people were able to separate the two
July 2nd, 2009 at 1:29 pmYoung Republican, you and bigots like you jeopardize the eternal life of homosexuals because you keep them from God. I hold you accountable for specifically creating the climate that did that specifically to a man I counseled who died without feeling accepted by society or a church.
July 2nd, 2009 at 1:30 pmPatrioticLiberalChristian Says:
.
.
.
July 2nd, 2009 at 1:26 pm
Good remarks.
Why don’t you ask him what Franklin asked Paine after Franklin had read The Age of Reason?
Franklin, Benjamin (1840), The Works of Benjamin Franklin, ed. Jared Sparks (Boston, MA: Tappan, Whittemore, & Mason).
July 2nd, 2009 at 1:31 pmEvangenital-
they were definitely in effect at the SF Pride, which is the biggest one in the US. Faith communities play a large role here in SF. There are a lot of churches that stand in solidarity with gay rights activism. Do they have as much money as the Mormon church? no. Do they get as much press from a media that often gets its bread and butter from highlighting divisiveness? no. but we always debate incremental change on TP…why not see these smaller movements as valid?
July 2nd, 2009 at 1:32 pmstill wrong PLC, I did NOT “attack” anything, I simply stated my belief that religion is a mental disorder, which is easily demonstrated by the belief in obvious falsehoods
but I get it, you are free to profess your beliefs and I am not
nothing has changed, rationalists are still the minority in this country and even get grief for their beliefs on a progressive blog
hopefully our country will grow out of religion in my lifetime, but I doubt it
July 2nd, 2009 at 1:32 pmlet’s put it a different way: I respect the believer, but not the beliefs. as a rational human being, I simply cannot respect the beliefs.
Daryll would be proud of you! Replace “believer” with “sinner” and you sound just like him!
when I state that belief in religion is a mental disorder, I am not disparaging the person suffering from the delusions
Bullsh*t, you aren’t! I am not “suffering” and I do not make others suffer through my beliefs.
July 2nd, 2009 at 1:36 pmyou are free to profess your beliefs and I am not
I never said that or implied that. I will say, though, that you or anyone else, myself included, who post in a public place should expect to be confronted about the beliefs they present. I am perfectly willing to do so. Are you?
July 2nd, 2009 at 1:41 pmToo many “religious” people make others suffer because of their beliefs.
DADT and DOMA are prime examples of religious hegemony into civil society.
July 2nd, 2009 at 1:43 pmIrony. Irony. Irony .
Is it just bit or does it strike anyone that someone remarking they do not believe in God and also remarking that they have no difficulty picking-out “true Christian” – “PLC … one of the few true Christians[someone who definitely believes in God] around here” – are just a couple of incompatible, incongruent, ludicrous remark?
July 2nd, 2009 at 1:46 pmIs this like saying that atheists can pick-out the Christians better than the Christians, which is like saying that an atheistic scientist is better that a Christian scientist? One understands better if one doesn’t believe anything?
To bit’s way of thinking poster has completely undermined their own credibility. Bit would not buy a car from this poster, and bit doesn’t agree with the conclusion: This is what the United States of America is all about. Poster believes in nothing, it seems to bit, but America is about something, and that something is not that not believing in God is as important as believing in God.
PLC, you attacked me personally for stating my belief
I never mentioned you at all until responding to you
YOU took offense because, apparently, you attach some sort of put-down or insult to mental illness.
mental illness can happen to anyone, especially if they are heavily exposed to a giant institution pushing fantastical beliefs as if they were real
but I tire of this subject. it’s always the same. religious fantasy speech is always protected, atheistic rationalism is always not
let’s move on
July 2nd, 2009 at 1:47 pmbitblt Says:
July 2nd, 2009 at 1:46 pm
Let’s play “Spot the True Christian.”
Hint: bit’s not it.
July 2nd, 2009 at 1:52 pm^THIS^
July 2nd, 2009 at 1:55 pmWe should wait and see how the military handles this case before we criticize the military. It would be premature to say that the case will be a whitewash or that the culprit will get a slap on the wrist. A life in prison or death sentence would send a strong message to the rest of the military. We need to do this now in anticipation of the repeal of DADT.
July 2nd, 2009 at 1:57 pmGuitar players who make up little songs about their personal lives are mentally ill.
July 2nd, 2009 at 1:59 pmI’m really appalled that Young Republican’s hate speech posts haven’t been deleted yet.
TP Moderators, please stop eating cake with Ali and ban this hateful troll.
Thanks.
PEACE
July 2nd, 2009 at 2:27 pmsome of them are
July 2nd, 2009 at 2:35 pmhey, it’s not like he said we should help people who have problems with reality or something vile like that
/snark
July 2nd, 2009 at 2:38 pmRantingTommy, why are you challenging my belief and modifying it to “some”? Isn’t anti-guitar speech protected?
July 2nd, 2009 at 2:40 pmNew & improved Young Republics!
…same as the tired, smelly Old Republics.
*
I’ve been an ordained minster for 40 years with the Universal Life Church.
Our credo: ‘Whether you believe God to be or not; you are correct’
It still works for me. Politics, however, is a different story…
July 2nd, 2009 at 2:49 pmZooey Says
July 2nd, 2009 at 12:19 pm
So the next time some total asshat comes on to me, I can beat him senseless?
_____________________________________________________________
Only in Texas, I think…
July 2nd, 2009 at 2:53 pmmisscoleopteramolly Says:
Only in Texas, I think…
July 2nd, 2009 at 2:53 pm
No way am I moving to Texas just for that… ;)
July 2nd, 2009 at 3:00 pmThe answer here is quite simple. ‘Don’t be openly gay in the military’.
The military does not want “gay” shoved down their throat. DODT stands.
July 2nd, 2009 at 3:16 pmRight. The sailor was shoving it down everyone’s throat, wanted special treatment, etc. No wonder why he deserved to die. Appalling.
July 2nd, 2009 at 3:31 pmThe military serves the country, not the other way around. The military will have to be obey the laws of the country, not the other way around.
Men that freak out about the presence of gay men are still dealing with their own feelings of shame over sexual attraction to another man. Why all the fear?
July 2nd, 2009 at 5:07 pmHow can Obama allow this to continue?
http://theworldofhowey.wordpress.com/2009/07/02/death-at-camp-pendleton-when-the-military-supports-homophobia/
July 2nd, 2009 at 5:44 pmWill Obama now realize the most pressing reason to get rid of DADT is the inherent homophobia in the military?
http://theworldofhowey.wordpress.com/2009/07/02/death-at-camp-pendleton-when-the-military-supports-homophobia/
July 2nd, 2009 at 5:51 pmRantingTommy Says:
and yet, here you are, pushing your agenda
And that agenda would be? I see from your other posts that you are pretty well out to lunch when it comes to logic. Can’t you see that commenting on the inappropriateness of issue does not in and of itself make the commenter a proponent or opponent of that issue? Ask God to help you understand.
July 2nd, 2009 at 7:05 pmThis is an outrage. Soldiers killing soldiers because one is gay makes me give up hope that the googley eyed right wing of this country will ever change themselves. They truly are vile pieces of crap.
July 2nd, 2009 at 8:52 pmIt is a pity that these threads sometimes degenerate into a religion bashing fest. The so called Christian fundamentalists are using religion for political gains. Religion has nothing to do with the fact they are grabbing for political power and money. In fact, these so called fundamentalists are using religion for fundraising and to line their coffers. There is no better way to galvanize a group than finding an enemy to hate. And gays are a current target. Religion is just a vehicle to deliver the hate.
July 2nd, 2009 at 9:39 pmMUCH better off.
I was raised to be an atheist and I am fine, thank you. I am not a wicked person. I do not need the fear of a magic sky man to keep me nice to people. I pity people who haven’t seen that it’s all about controlling the populace.
July 2nd, 2009 at 10:45 pmNow, back on topic:
If I was gay and in the military, I would be starting a movement to get ALL the gay service members to ASK and TELL officially, at the same time, on the same day.
What could happen?
Could they really deal with all of them coming out at once without some serious problems filling the ranks? Is the brig big enough?
And, would you really want to serve in an organization that gave you so little respect?
DADT is bigotry, plain and simple.
July 2nd, 2009 at 10:48 pm______
pags2 Says:
——————————————————————————–
We should wait and see how the military handles this case before we criticize the military. It would be premature to say that the case will be a whitewash or that the culprit will get a slap on the wrist. A life in prison or death sentence would send a strong message to the rest of the military. We need to do this now in anticipation of the repeal of DADT.
July 2nd, 2009 at 1:57 pm
______
Does the killer not deserve “a life in prison or death sentence” even if the motive had nothing to do with the victim being homosexual?
July 3rd, 2009 at 2:02 amupright left Says:
Does the killer not deserve “a life in prison or death sentence” even if the motive had nothing to do with the victim being homosexual?
All murders are motivated by money, sex or revenge. These motivations normally do not merit a death penalty and are for personal reasons of the murderer and arise out of the personal relationship with the victim. I would not necessarily be in favor of a death sentence if the motive is something other than sexual orientation. But I would reconsider that if the murder arose out of his job duties in the guard shack for the base. The armed services cannot slap someone on the wrist when the murder is because the victim was doing his job duties.
July 3rd, 2009 at 9:19 am______
pags2 Says:
——————————————————————————–
upright left Says:
Does the killer not deserve “a life in prison or death sentence” even if the motive had nothing to do with the victim being homosexual?
All murders are motivated by money, sex or revenge. These motivations normally do not merit a death penalty and are for personal reasons of the murderer and arise out of the personal relationship with the victim. I would not necessarily be in favor of a death sentence if the motive is something other than sexual orientation. But I would reconsider that if the murder arose out of his job duties in the guard shack for the base. The armed services cannot slap someone on the wrist when the murder is because the victim was doing his job duties.
July 3rd, 2009 at 9:19 am
______
I see your point, but you left out meanness and/or evil as motives. August Provost’s death and the grief of those who loved him is no less important because of the motive of the killer. If someone drives by and shoots indiscriminately into cars, they are driven by hate or evil. Does that warrant the same response as someone who kills a gay person because he hates gays?
July 3rd, 2009 at 11:29 amVery few murders are indiscriminate. Drive by shootings are done by gangs fighting for turf and money. Most murders are evil, but the way they are committed can be an aggravating factor for a jury in sentencing.
July 3rd, 2009 at 11:56 am______
pags2 Says:
——————————————————————————–
Very few murders are indiscriminate. Drive by shootings are done by gangs fighting for turf and money. Most murders are evil, but the way they are committed can be an aggravating factor for a jury in sentencing.
July 3rd, 2009 at 11:56 am
______
Most are not indiscriminate, agreed. But of those that are, is the hate that motivates them the equivalent of the hate that drives someone to kill a person because he is gay?
July 3rd, 2009 at 12:11 pmThere are race and sexual orientation indiscriminate killings. For example, the black guy and teen who were killing people in the DC/Maryland area. But that was not motivated by hate. At best the police concluded that the killings were to cover up the killing of the ex-wife. There are others where the motivation is murky. Gay bashing is far more common than murder and that is motivated by hate.
July 3rd, 2009 at 12:22 pm______
pags2 Says:
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There are race and sexual orientation indiscriminate killings. For example, the black guy and teen who were killing people in the DC/Maryland area. But that was not motivated by hate. At best the police concluded that the killings were to cover up the killing of the ex-wife. There are others where the motivation is murky. Gay bashing is far more common than murder and that is motivated by hate.
July 3rd, 2009 at 12:22 pm
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Let’s assume by indiscriminate we mean killing just anyone for the sake of killing rather than just killing any person of a certain race or sexual preference. We’ve agreed that truly indiscriminate killing is less common than other killings. But when they occur, are they not the same as any other hate motivated killing?
July 3rd, 2009 at 1:23 pmI don’t see indiscriminate killing from the hate point of view.
July 3rd, 2009 at 1:49 pmThese right wing Neo-fascist “Christians” Marines and Navy thugs:
If they aren’t ganging up and rape-murdering little girls in other countries, they go after the gays doing their duty as Americans.
But than again, it the right wing neo-conservatism upbringing, isn’t it? The GOP, republicans, bigots and racist must be congratulating themselves on this “heroic” deed!
It’s hard to be proud of a country’s military who harbors those horrific examples of gang violence.
As for Military “justice.” Forget it, It’s just isn’t there.
July 3rd, 2009 at 11:44 pmGhost Walker373 Says:
it would not matter if it was a suicide, or murder, or a acident, you f’n libs would not stop till you found some one to blame,……sounds like he might have flaunted to his fellow crew mates( maybe trying to make a few exra bucks ,eh?)
You are pathetic.
July 4th, 2009 at 12:55 amGhostWalker just STFU. You are stupid you are an ignorant punkass troll without a shred of decency or a single functional braincell. What a piece of garbage you are.
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July 5th, 2009 at 12:48 pm