Obama: America was not built by ‘naysayers.’
Obama: America was not built by ‘naysayers.’
President Obama devotes his address this week to remembering the “indomitable spirit of the first American citizens” who built this country and the lessons we can apply to the current challenges:
That is the spirit we are called to show once more. We are facing an array of challenges on a scale unseen in our time. We are waging two wars. We are battling a deep recession. And our economy – and our nation itself – are endangered by festering problems we have kicked down the road for far too long: spiraling health care costs; inadequate schools; and a dependence on foreign oil. [...]
These are some of the challenges that our generation has been called to meet. And yet, there are those who would have us try what has already failed; who would defend the status quo. They argue that our health care system is fine the way it is and that a clean energy economy can wait. They say we are trying to do too much, that we are moving too quickly, and that we all ought to just take a deep breath and scale back our goals.
These naysayers have short memories. They forget that we, as a people, did not get here by standing pat in a time of change. We did not get here by doing what was easy. That is not how a cluster of 13 colonies became the United States of America.
Watch it:
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damn – some great rhetoric Obama, especially the day after your opponent from last fall’s VP threat quit, leaving faux and pundits to proclaim that “quitting is winning” and fulfilling your responsibilities is “quittting”.
Please remember what you said during the upcoming battles on the hill with a largely discredited, disorganized GOP that is loosing a potential 2012 candidate each and every week now!
July 4th, 2009 at 1:33 pmOverhead in smoke-filled repug backroom:
“WHILE SEX SCANDALS WERE CERTAINLY THINNING GOP RANKS, A PRECEDENT FOR RESIGNATIONS BASED ON STUPIDITY COULD COMPLETELY WIPE US OUT.”
July 4th, 2009 at 1:34 pmVery nice words, Mr. President. Now why are your policies stuck in the past as well. You embrace the same financial bail-out policies of George W. Bush, your policies on gay rights are the same as your predecessors.
July 4th, 2009 at 1:38 pmMr. President ARE YOU WILLING TO STAND UP TO THE STATUS QUO AND DELIVER “CHANGE WE CAN BELIEVE IN”?
Lefty Liberal – the coming weeks will tell us a lot. There have been many conflicting reports on what the dems will do about healthcare.
One thing is clear – if Obama is going to match his rhetoric with action, we are going to have to hold the White House and dems accountable.
Please don’t let anyone here tell you otherwise – real change demands holding BOTH sides their campaign slogans.
July 4th, 2009 at 1:41 pmOK, Obama, you send the US Navy to rescue a captain of a Danish owned Maersk ship that was hijacked by Somali pirates in international water, and order the pirates shot, but you refuse to help a former US Congresswoman, hijacked by Israeli pirates/Navy in international waters who was delivering crayons, food, and medical supplies to Palestinians being subjected to genocide and Apartheid.
Your loyalty lies with Israel and not with the United States Constitution and People.
Happy Birthday America, and time to sweep clean the entire government and start fresh.
July 4th, 2009 at 1:42 pmdamn – this thread is gonna make the self-proclaimed TP “elite” angry – VERY ANGRY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
They will condemn us all as HERETICS!
July 4th, 2009 at 1:43 pmPRESIDENT OBAMA: These are some of the challenges that our generation has been called to meet. And yet, there are those who would have us try what has already failed; who would defend the status quo.
Well said, President Obama. A fine way of putting the “party of no” in their place.
July 4th, 2009 at 1:46 pmI sort of doubt that…
July 4th, 2009 at 1:46 pmnaysayers….
July 4th, 2009 at 1:47 pmIt is a great strategy to diffuse the wingnut talking point (that gratefully has not gained traction) that somehow this year’s annual celebration of the founding of America is all about the teabaggers.
And that if we wear red-white-and-blue, drink red-white-and-blue, watch fireworks, light a grill, or give the kids sparklers, somehow we are part of their fraudulent grass-roots (actually astroturf) movement.
July 4th, 2009 at 1:48 pmFixed that for you, Obama.
July 4th, 2009 at 1:54 pmOuch! Nice verbal smackdown.. Now please back it up with action.
Thanks.
Happy 4th everyone.
July 4th, 2009 at 1:56 pmThe Party of “NO” seems to think that if we don’t do anything, all the ills of this country will somehow miraculously fix themselves. Too bad for them the people in this country have rejected their “no” and know that we need to do a lot of things to fix the mess they made of our government.
July 4th, 2009 at 1:57 pmIn the midst of the biggest meltdown by a major party since the Whigs disengrated 150 years ago the Obama Adm. hesitates at bold action. He asks for individual iniative in the face of several, severe national crises where only bold federal action will save the day. Truely strange postering from someone who has the oppurtunity to rewrite the rules of the game to better serve all of America. We now see more clearly the power of money and its’ corrupting influences. Obama would have been better served calling for public financing of elections on this of all days. He’s had all the carrots he deserves now it is time for the progressive stick.
July 4th, 2009 at 1:57 pmI’d rather have candidate Obama back…
“I don’t take a dime of their [lobbyist] money, and when I am president, they won’t find a job in my White House.”
~Barack Obama
“I opposed the Defense of Marriage Act in 1996. It should be repealed and I will vote for its repeal on the Senate floor. I will also oppose any proposal to amend the U.S. Constitution to ban gays and lesbians from marrying.”
~Barack Obama
“Well, I think it should be a right for every American. In a country as wealthy as ours, for us to have people who are going bankrupt because they can’t pay their medical bills–for my mother to die of cancer at the age of 53 and have to spend the last months of her life in the hospital room arguing with insurance companies because they’re saying that this may be a pre-existing condition and they don’t have to pay her treatment, there’s something fundamentally wrong about that.”
~Barack Obama
To borrow from Jon Stewart: I want candidate Obama to protect me from President Obama…
July 4th, 2009 at 2:01 pmWas so.
July 4th, 2009 at 2:01 pmdamn – linkie, that there rhetoric is gonna really piss off the blog gods here…
July 4th, 2009 at 2:02 pmI sort of doubt that
July 4th, 2009 at 2:05 pmShould point out – the WHIG party did not go away, there were just rebranded as REPUBLICAN party.
But they still stand for the same thing and represent the same issues – CORPORATE WELFARE FOR THE WEALTHY AND POLITICALLY CORRECTED.
While running against “big government” they enrich themselves at the public trough, proclaiming it is somehow wrong to spend public monies on the public good.
The Whigs just renamed the shtick and have “catapulted” the propaganda about “fiscal conservative” and “family values” ever since. All the while, looting the federal treasury.
July 4th, 2009 at 2:06 pmThe speech is a small lob at the right wing while trying not to be too partisan. People are turned off to negative campaigning and he has avoided it while the Republicans are using it on a daily basis. I believe that is why he is still popular with the people. However, there is legislation on the major issues which is still percolating in Congress. He has public opinion on his side regarding the public health care option as well as the other issues. It remains to be seen if he can bring down the hammer and get what he wants despite opposition from members of his own party.
July 4th, 2009 at 2:08 pmpags2 – he could neutralize the “opposition” from his own party and that of many repugs too.
MORE THAN 3 out of 4 Americans support change here and even the majority of repugs do!
The opportunity for any type of change in this nation may never be so widely supported. If it doesn’t get done, it is because they did not really work it.
July 4th, 2009 at 2:10 pmWe should be asking the elected Law Makers why they haven’t pass the bills our President is asking for. Some Americans still don’t realize we have a Democracy and not a Dictatorship. Yes we know Bush did what he wanted without using the US System of checks and balances as Americans now see the US Debt at 11 Trillion over the pass 8 years. Now Americans expect Obama to correct the mistakes and fix the mess that was made. Yes Obama is black and white but if we want to move forward with success we have to let go of the hate that has been build up by the GOP and their supporters. It’s no shame in having an educated qualified black President when we allow an uneducated drug/alcoholic President like George W. Bush run this country in the grown for 8 years.
July 4th, 2009 at 2:16 pmMaybe our side could quit pissing and moaning about Obama ALL THE TIME?
Yeah, I know, I’ve done my share, but can we just give it a f ucking rest? Nothing — and I mean NOTHING — makes the Republicans happier than seeing us constantly bickering among ourselves, and ragging Obama’s ass.
We don’t have to march in lock-step like good little Democrats/Progressives, but could we muster up the appearance of a united front? That might put the fear of god into the stupid Blue Dog Dems, and maybe a few Republicans up for re-election.
Got a problem with the president? Email him, and tell him about it.
The Republicans may be the “Party of No,” but we’re the damn naysayers.
July 4th, 2009 at 2:17 pmis that like 3.2765 or more than 3.817 or are you just saying stuff?
July 4th, 2009 at 2:17 pmPresident Obama, we will hold you to account, just as every American, regardless of party affiliation, should hold every leader to account.
Now put some muscle and action behind those words. We’ve waited long enough to see that change we worked so hard for to begin coming to fruition.
Happy Independence Day!
PEACE
July 4th, 2009 at 2:19 pmFunny how ridiculing one side, holding them accountable is considered “good” by the blog-gods here and holding the other side accountable is “naysaying”.
Not really the opinion of the majority that stop by, but of the self-proclaimed important types.
July 4th, 2009 at 2:21 pmO/T
Just would like to point out how nice it is that GOBSpit has not polluted the last few threads with its droppings.
Happy Independence Day everyone!
July 4th, 2009 at 2:22 pmAnd the SINGLE PAYER is also popular – widely supported, but you can do the math yourself here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8AdSHKywEU
Of course, obama and the dems took that off the table a long time ago, dishonestly telling us that American’s would not support it.
July 4th, 2009 at 2:22 pmCongress is not in session so it would be premature for him to start the grassroots push on the issues. That needs to be done as the legislation gets closer to a vote. I expect he will do that when the time comes. There are some Republicans that will never vote for any of Obama’s plans barring any sea change in their districts. But Obama has the grassroots organization to push Congress. That should not stop people from expressing their opinion about the issues right now, especially in places where the Republicans are vulnerable.
July 4th, 2009 at 2:23 pmLet’s look at these speeches/words….
Candidate Obama:
President Obama:
*punt*
July 4th, 2009 at 2:24 pmpags2 – perhaps you are right, but congress HAS been in session and we have not seen this.
But your point is well taken – it is still legitimate, however, to acknowledge what they need to do and that they promised to do it.
Even if a few, in the minority here, constantly post that isn’t so.
July 4th, 2009 at 2:25 pmNot really the opinion of the majority that stop by, but of the self-proclaimed important types.
—
July 4th, 2009 at 2:25 pmYou have any data on this cuz I got a long list of the regular folks who might disagree…
Mr. Obama, Naysayers include those who do not confront illegalities and effronteries to our Constitution. You have not directed the Attorney General to pursue the causes of the Iraq “war” and the devastation and expense resulting. And Gitmo; and illegal wiretapping; and pay to play ambassadorships; and the real criminals behind Abu Graib; and U.S. Attorneys scandal, etc., etc. We elected you to confront these issues, not to do nothing or implicitly let them slip away.
July 4th, 2009 at 2:28 pmI love how “Another Joe” will address another commenter, but doesn’t have the balls make it known who he’s addressing.
July 4th, 2009 at 2:28 pmSaw your list – saw folks demanded that you take them off. Also regularly see most of them post that now is the time to hold dems accountable for their platform and rhetoric from last fall.
Figures lie and liars figure…
I am sure threats of physical harm will follow – mighty “progressive” thing to do bud…
July 4th, 2009 at 2:29 pmif you are too stoooooooooopid to know when you are being spoken to, that is not anyone else’s fault!
But you have your own little TP blog, so you are a queen here, right?
Too bad the video project was beyond your creative energy though!
July 4th, 2009 at 2:29 pmno one is not suggesting accountability. What they are suggesting is less pissing and moaning. How many times do you think you have to say it?
July 4th, 2009 at 2:31 pmThis thread is no different than most – progressive/liberals want Obama and the dems to “seize the moment” and show us that they meant what they said last fall.
A few say “NO THEY CAN’T AND HOW DARE YOU EXPECT IT!”
Anyone that reads these threads can clearly see this pattern.
July 4th, 2009 at 2:32 pmEach and every time you say otherwise…
July 4th, 2009 at 2:32 pmAnother Joe seems a little irritable this day…
July 4th, 2009 at 2:32 pmEach and every time you say otherwise…
– Can you point to that place where that has happened?
July 4th, 2009 at 2:34 pmA few say “NO THEY CAN’T AND HOW DARE YOU EXPECT IT!”
Anyone that reads these threads can clearly see this pattern.
— Shall we collect some data relative to your hypothesis or does saying it make it so?
July 4th, 2009 at 2:37 pmWhat the hell is the troll rambling about? Anyone…?
July 4th, 2009 at 2:38 pmLefty Liberal Says:
Very nice words, Mr. President. Now why are your policies stuck in the past as well. You embrace the same financial bail-out policies of George W. Bush, your policies on gay rights are the same as your predecessors.
Time will tell us about President Obama’s policies in the financial markets but Obama DOES NOT agree with Bush on Gay rights. He may not be moving as quickly as you think he should, but he has promised to do away with DADT and I believe that he will. I also believe that he will come up with Civil Unions so that gays can make a legal commitment to each other.
We are never going to have a perfect President that does everything we want him/her to do. But, I do believe that we need to give a new President a chance to prove himself before we start condemning him. We have no idea why he is making the decisions he is making. My one criticism is that I wish he would tell us why he makes the decisions that we find reprehensible (like indefinitely detaining people).
July 4th, 2009 at 2:39 pmAnother Joe seems a little irritable this day…
Perhaps he needs more roughage in his diet.
And that would be Goddess Zooey to you! Queen is so 20th century.
PEACE
July 4th, 2009 at 2:42 pmThe president is only part of the equation to get things done. He needs to bring Congress on board and that is more difficult because of the conservaDems. Obama cannot push Congress around except through public opinion. These issues are wending their way through the legislative process. At this point Obama can try to shape the legislation before it is voted. It may take the grassroots organization for Obama to get what he wants. It has to be done at the right time and now would be premature. Demanding instantaneous action would be fatal to some or all of Obama’s programs.
July 4th, 2009 at 2:42 pmI guess the troll assumes everyone actually reads his shit. Hilarious!
Dismissed.
July 4th, 2009 at 2:42 pmOh geez, Mom. **blush**
July 4th, 2009 at 2:45 pmAJ @28
July 4th, 2009 at 2:47 pmThe video you linked is about the Bushs. I do not see how that connects to the statement regarding Single Payor being taken off the table. Or maybe your just pointing out the similarities in the “Propoganda” machines?
Can you help me out with this one please?
Another Joe Says:
Of course, obama and the dems took that off the table a long time ago, dishonestly telling us that American’s would not support it.
Except that Obama never said that Americans wouldn’t support it. What he has said is that the Republics and the Blue Dogs in the Senate won’t support it and he is right. That’s why he’s going for the public option. It’s a way to ease this country into a single payer system.
July 4th, 2009 at 2:47 pmZooey, do you prefer Empress? Maharincess of Franistan?
PEACE
July 4th, 2009 at 2:49 pmThis is MY President! Of whom I am Well Pleased!
July 4th, 2009 at 2:50 pmhanshiro the antlion Says:
We all get it that you have zero patience and are not willing to give President Obama a chance to prove himself. So, why do you need to keep posting the same thing day after day after day? Do you think you will influence people here to start condemning Obama without giving him a chance? The people who are prone to your influence have already done so. The rest of us are sick to death of your daily whines about how Obama has “let us down”.
July 4th, 2009 at 2:50 pmgus smith Says:
Mr. Obama, Naysayers include those who do not confront illegalities and effronteries to our Constitution. You have not directed the Attorney General to pursue the causes of the Iraq “war” and the devastation and expense resulting.
First of all, it’s President Obama, not Mr. Obama. Your showing your disrespect towards our President pretty much identifies you for what you are.
Second, you have no idea what President Obama has direcgted Eric Holder to do unless you have an inside line to the Whitehouse or Justice Department. Eric Holder has inherited almost as big a mess as has President Obama. It’s going to take a while for him to untangle things to know what really went on. If, a couple of years from now nothing has been done about the Bush Crime Family, I’ll complain too. But I will withhold my criticism until Obama and Holder have had the time they need to handle all the other big messes they inherited while attempting to untangle the illegalities of the Bush Crime Family.
July 4th, 2009 at 2:58 pmAre the trolls here actually proud of their own ignorance and of their inability to put together a logically persuasive argument in support of their views? Or do they just enjoy acting like ten-year-olds?
July 4th, 2009 at 3:01 pmBilbo,
I don’t know. Both Hanshiro and AJ bring valid points for the most part. The delivery can use some work I think. At least they can hold an Intelligent discourse. (AJ gets a little too defensive IMO) Unlike the majority of Trolls that trash and run or post just to FLame.
just my opinion.
July 4th, 2009 at 3:03 pmAnother Joe Says:
if you are too stoooooooooopid to know when you are being spoken to, that is not anyone else’s fault!
But you have your own little TP blog, so you are a queen here, right?
Too bad the video project was beyond your creative energy though!
Not too full of yourself or anything, are you?
July 4th, 2009 at 3:04 pmSo what is AJ actually doing to bring about the change he wants? Which goddess is Zooey anyway? Diana? Loki? That mother nature lady from the old parkay commericals?
July 4th, 2009 at 3:05 pmWell if pissing and moaning online is a mechanism of change well than I would say that is Another Joes plan for implimentation of change… Oh and attempting to act superior but this line of change hasn’t worked out as well…
July 4th, 2009 at 3:08 pmAnother Joe Says:
But you have your own little TP blog, so you are a queen here, right
So why hasn’t AJ started his own blog for whiny liberal naysayers? AJ, santa, and hanshiro could sit around and debate why Obama isn’t as smart and bold and progressive as they to their hearts’ content.
July 4th, 2009 at 3:08 pmWho is this freak and what is their major fu cking damage?
July 4th, 2009 at 3:19 pmThere is a big difference between pissing and moaning and down right despair.
July 4th, 2009 at 3:19 pmThink of the contrast of Obama to Bush!
Great to have a real President in the Whitehouse, even with all the pissing and moaning!
santo = blog stalker
just flag
July 4th, 2009 at 3:23 pmWell said 0bama, hitler would be so damn proud of you!
July 4th, 2009 at 3:24 pmZooey Says:
I love how “Another Joe” will address another commenter, but doesn’t have the balls make it known who he’s addressing.
but somehow dbullybadass knows who joe is talking to… we all do.
and i really don’t get it.
dbadass USED to have comments; now it’s mostly stalking.
i have 4 younger brothers i grew up with… ah, memories…….
July 4th, 2009 at 3:24 pmHi The Young Republican
July 4th, 2009 at 3:24 pmAre you still afraid?
I wish we were building America, instead we’re building a global hegemony, something our founders decried.
Here’s one example:
http://peureport.blogspot.com/2009/07/baker-botts-agressively-grows-middle.html
We have the freedom to tamper with the world through military force and economic handcuffs.
July 4th, 2009 at 3:26 pmdbadass Says:
Who is this freak and what is their major fu cking damage
I don’t know, dbadass. Some people have good ideas but lack the ability to express themselves well. Others can express themselves well but have little of value to say. This particular freak combines little of value to say with an inability to express himself well. And he does it repeatedly.
July 4th, 2009 at 3:27 pmTYR,
Shouldn’t you be sticking Sparklers in your eyes?
STFU
July 4th, 2009 at 3:28 pmAs always katy doyour thing I’ll do mine. You seem unaware that I am a behaviorist and everthing is said with a purpose.
July 4th, 2009 at 3:29 pmObama shore do talkee-talk nice…
Too bad he not walkee-walk him talkee-talk so much, innit?
We’ve seemingly exchanged an illiterate, insensitive corporate bozo for a literate, sensitive corporate bozo…
Change? Yeah, like clean underwear…
July 4th, 2009 at 3:30 pmYes. And yes…
July 4th, 2009 at 3:31 pmThe young republican has been flagged (in honor of the 4th!) Please don’t engage it today, but give it, and all its friends, a star-spangled flagging!
July 4th, 2009 at 3:31 pmZooey Says:
I guess the troll assumes everyone actually reads his shit. Hilarious!
what “troll” are you referring to? another joe?
i don’t get that either… must have missed that WEEKS OLD sand fight…
but, have you counted all the hits for his comments?
he’s saying SOMEthing right… at least he has topical comments.
WTF?
July 4th, 2009 at 3:32 pmsorry, zoo, don’t want to get on YOUR bad side, but the clique-ish crap is really old…
July 4th, 2009 at 3:34 pmThe greatest thing Obama did on his way to becoming President is that he made people forget he was politician. And politicians have often said one thing and done the other which is why a lot of comparisions to Obama the canidate and Obama the President have been made in story. People didn’t see the “establishment” in Obama the way they saw it in Buch or McCain, but Obama knows how to play the game just as good as anybody.
July 4th, 2009 at 3:37 pmRandomChaos Says:
Bilbo,
I don’t know. Both Hanshiro and AJ bring valid points for the most part. The delivery can use some work I think. At least they can hold an Intelligent discourse. (AJ gets a little too defensive IMO) Unlike the majority of Trolls that trash and run or post just to FLame.
I’m not saying that their points are not valid, it’s just getting really really old. President Obama is not perfect, but he’s a far sight better than what we had. I also think that a lot of the decisions he has made are not based on his opinion but on putting them into a holding pattern until he can figure out how to fix the messes Bush left him.
I’m not happy with a lot of what Obama has done, but I am willing to give him a chance to make things right. There is no way that he can, right now, solve the myriad of problems left to him by Bush. Right now he’s having to prioritize what he puts at the top of his list and I think that’s necessary and the right thing to do.
July 4th, 2009 at 3:38 pmTime will tell us about President Obama’s policies in the financial markets but Obama DOES NOT agree with Bush on Gay rights.
If it comes to choice between reining in the crooks and thieves, and you know, preventing the next phase of the still-unfolding financial melt-down in the financial markets and, say, rescinding DADT/DOMA, I’d frankly rather “thePrez” sent his time castrating the venal, thieving, unprincipled wall streeters…
Mebbe that’s just me…
July 4th, 2009 at 3:39 pmI’d have to disagree with the president on this one.
If the American Revolution had been put to a vote, we’d still be drinking tea and crumpets.
July 4th, 2009 at 3:40 pm50. Bilbo Hussein Baggins Says: Except that Obama never said that Americans wouldn’t support it. What he has said is that the Republics and the Blue Dogs in the Senate won’t support it and he is right. That’s why he’s going for the public option. It’s a way to ease this country into a single payer system.
(From NPR interview:)
53. Bilbo Hussein Baggins Says: The people who are prone to your influence have already done so. The rest of us are sick to death of your daily whines about how Obama has “let us down”.
BillyBo, coming from someone who didn’t have a clue about what Obama’s “Preventative Detention” was all about, I’m not really concerned about your perception or approval.
If a republican was doing all this crap, I would be doing exactly the same thing…that’s what progressives do.
July 4th, 2009 at 3:43 pmtokin librul Says:
Time will tell us about President Obama’s policies in the financial markets but Obama DOES NOT agree with Bush on Gay rights.
If it comes to choice between reining in the crooks and thieves, and you know, preventing the next phase of the still-unfolding financial melt-down in the financial markets and, say, rescinding DADT/DOMA, I’d frankly rather “thePrez” sent his time castrating the venal, thieving, unprincipled wall streeters…
Mebbe that’s just me…</em
If it comes to a choice between expending his political capital and his time on rescinding DADT or getting all Americans health care, I would prefer he do health care first. It’s selfish on my part because as on January I will join the 47 million Americans with no health insurance. Somehow the lives of 47 million Americans is more important to me than 100 gays who may be affected by DADT. I do believe that DADT needs to be rescinded, but I also believe in priorities.
July 4th, 2009 at 3:44 pmMy 4th of July Hope…
President Obama’s heart is in the Right Place…
That he Knows what he is doing…
That he is bending over backwards, so that no one can accuse him of not bending over backwards….
And that he has directed Rahm Emanuel raise Holy Hell with wavering Dems and Blue Dogs.
If the Dems can’t come together to invoke cloture on Obama’s Promised Changes….then the great unraveling has begun.
The Rubber is about to meet the Road.
July 4th, 2009 at 3:46 pmhanshiro the antlion Says:
If a republican was doing all this crap, I would be doing exactly the same thing…that’s what progressives do.
Well, that may be your perception of what progressives do. All the progressives I know are willing to give President Obama a chance to prove he can do what he says he will do. I have criticized President Obama and will in the future. But I am not willing to condemn him 6 months after taking office, which is what you do on a daily basis.
July 4th, 2009 at 3:49 pmI think it’s also important to remember that Candidate Obama campaigned for two years, and things changed during that time.
The conversation changed from “when to withdraw/we demand a timetable” to “fcuk that withdrawl talk, we’re sending in tens of thousands more”.
And then the economy collapsed. BushCo was trying desperately to hold it in check for just a few more months, so that the incoming Obama administration could be blamed for it happening on his watch, or at least at the news of his election win.
So our President entered office with so much more on his plate than he’d envisioned when he began his run.
Not making excuses, just pointing out that shit happens, and in this case, boatload after boatload of shit happened all at once.
But let me state this quite clearly – if there is no public option as part of sweeping healthcare reform, there will be no money, and no time, donated by me or, I suspect, millions of others. That is a non-negotiable point. I’m still steamed that Dr. Dean is not Secretary of HHS.
PEACE
July 4th, 2009 at 3:49 pmBilbo Hussein Baggins Says:
Time will tell us about President Obama’s policies in the financial markets but Obama DOES NOT agree with Bush on Gay rights.
The DOJ cited several cases in their defence of DOMA including: Catalano v. Catalano, which ruled the marriage of uncle to niece, “though valid in Italy under its laws, was not valid in Connecticut because it contravened the public policy of that state”. In Wilkins v. Zelichowski It was ruled that the marriage of 16-year-old female held invalid in New Jersey, regardless of its validity in Indiana, and in another case a marriage of first cousins was held invalid in Arizona, though lawfully performed in New Mexico.
So, in other words, the idea of two unrelated men being married falls into the same categories as incest, pedophilia, and and marriage of close blood relatives.
THIS IS A MASSIVE INSULT TO ALL GAY AND LESBIAN PEOPLE THAT VOTED FOR OBAMA. Our relationships are just as valid as straits. Until he apologizes to the gay community, he will get no more support for me for portraying my relationships in this way. He is no better than the haters and gay bashers that have had free reign to taunt and do violence against gays and lesbians for hundreds of years.
July 4th, 2009 at 3:50 pmEveryone needs to take a deep breath and wait to see what happens when a major bill comes up. Then we will have an idea whether Obama is pushing his agenda. Until then, he appears to be building a consensus which is good.
July 4th, 2009 at 3:53 pmI’d like the people who are “give Obama time, isn’t he better than bush” advocates to explain the Constitutionality or, for that matter, any vestige of sanity for “Preventative Detention.”
After that…(if you can get past it or just ignore it,) elaborate on closing Gitmo, but keeping the black sites and Bagram and Military commissions/tribunals…then take a crack at telecom immunity…
I’ll wait, but won’t hold my breath.
July 4th, 2009 at 3:54 pmBilbo Hussein Baggins Says:
If it comes to a choice between expending his political capital and his time on rescinding DADT or getting all Americans health care, I would prefer he do health care first. It’s selfish on my part because as on January I will join the 47 million Americans with no health insurance. Somehow the lives of 47 million Americans is more important to me than 100 gays who may be affected by DADT. I do believe that DADT needs to be rescinded, but I also believe in priorities.
The problem that everyone is overlooking is that time and effort has already been spent by the DOJ to put together a hateful brief (see posting above). If there is time to produce that type of sewage, then there should have been time to put together a proper response to the case and support it’s repeal by the courts.
July 4th, 2009 at 3:54 pm86.Badger Says: My 4th of July Hope…President Obama’s heart is in the Right Place…That he Knows what he is doing…
That’s just the problem.
Why, after 8 years of, “just trust us,” are we getting more of the same? Obama is exceedingly well spoken, yet the only rationale and justification he trots out are tired and rejected (many by himself) contortionist bush logic to keep the same policies. Why?
Why isn’t Obama doing as he promised and explaining, imposing transparency, and moving his administration in the direction of his claims when he was candidate Obama?
Transparency?
Why isn’t bush in jail? Prosecutions? Investigations? Rather than this “look to the future,” bongwater? Obama’s first full day in office produced an obstruction to recovering bush’s “lost” emails. Apparently Obama has the time when it comes to covering for bush….
WTF?
July 4th, 2009 at 4:02 pmhansiro,
July 4th, 2009 at 4:02 pmI’d like the people who are “give Obama time, isn’t he better than bush” advocates to explain the Constitutionality or, for that matter, any vestige of sanity for “Preventative Detention.”
It’s called upholding the status quo and you know how that works…
… DON’T BASH
BUSHOBAMA.I come from a long line of Military and Governmental workers. I myself am in Local/County as I have stated in the past.
General consesus is “Change” is an almost impossible goal to reach. I will be happy if just 50% (hell even 20%) of what President Obama “promised” comes to fruition.
This I do know for a fact. Shit don’t happen overnight in Government.
July 4th, 2009 at 4:09 pmyea… fook the economy… fook the uninsured drain on the economy… and all the rest…
gay rights and fixing boosh’s prison fiasco take precedent!
i mean, WHY NOT???
c’mon, barack – what’s taking you SO LONG to get it together?!?
jeesh.
mcSAME and caribou barbie could have this all fixed by now.
July 4th, 2009 at 4:11 pm(via Greenwald:)
I don’t think some of these people have the time to wait for Obama to ‘get around to it,’ frankly. If only he was in a bush email, then he’d be out on day one of Obama’s administration…
July 4th, 2009 at 4:15 pmrightwing talkingheads and their followers like santos are just sore losers. We the people voted for change and where getting it and its going alot better already. Its only six months into Obamas presidency and you wingnuts are already going crazy. After eight years 90% of you nuts will have committed suicide. That will be a huge positive for the US.
July 4th, 2009 at 4:19 pmIs anyone still unclear on what hanshiro and AJ are saying?
I’m sure they’d be glad to go over it again for ya.
July 4th, 2009 at 4:19 pmKaty is right…
Just because Obama won big over a flawed John McCain doesn’t mean that Americans all see things the same as some of our less patient Posters.
IMHO, if he doesn’t get the economy turned around and at least moving towards recovery..
and if he doesn’t get healthcare turned around and at least moving towards functionality…
Then he is in Big trouble with Independent, low information voters.
And then NONE of the other issues will Ever Be addressed.
These first steps will require Action by CONGRESS!!!
I don’t blame anyone for being Mistrustful of Obama’s Intentions…the pressure from the left is a Good thing…but I’m certainly not willing to think he is the SAME as Bush…at least not yet.
July 4th, 2009 at 4:24 pmhanshiro,
July 4th, 2009 at 4:25 pmI posted that fat elephant a few days ago and recieved the STFU troll, cold shoulder treatment…
katy says:
mcSAME and caribou barbie could have this all fixed by now.
Ahhh, crybaby barbie would have resigned by now sos he could run for pope…
July 4th, 2009 at 4:26 pmI can understand President Obama’a logic with the ‘now make me do it’ thing. He wants and needs the public behind him to make things happen in such a fashion as to transcend the Republican screed about partisan.
My question is, Mr. President. You have over 70% of the public calling for DADT to go away, the same for a public health care plan. How much more do you want? You were hired as a leader, so please, be about it. If the public does the job, they might begin to wonder just why they hired you.
Please don’t let that happen.
July 4th, 2009 at 4:33 pmBrain From Planet Arous Says:
This sounds interesting, please link.
I can’t wait to read! hurry!
July 4th, 2009 at 4:39 pm99. ralph the wonder locust Says: Is anyone still unclear on what hanshiro and AJ are saying? I’m sure they’d be glad to go over it again for ya.
Thanks, Ralph, and please feel free to join the chorus the way you did when bush was doing the exact same things….
July 4th, 2009 at 4:41 pmhow feckless and fickle…
July 4th, 2009 at 4:43 pmHoodathunktick
Well said and the majority of posters in this thread and others seem to agree.
So what if it rubs a few “kings” and “queens” wrong – they obviously don’t speak for the rest of us (most of us) and certainly do not reflect the majority of liberals and progressives.
In fact – some of them even deny that there is a proud tradition of progressive and liberal politics.
One of them even pulled out an ol’ dictionary and tried to use it to demonstrate that it means nothing more than simple platitudes that ignore the gains progressives have made and contributed to this nation.
Not being part of some people’s little clique is something to wear with a badge of pride – even when a few of them pound the keyboards mercilessly trying to manufacture concensus where non exists!
July 4th, 2009 at 4:44 pmOMG did anyone notify the Party of Naysayers? I think they did not get that meno..
Have a great Holiday…. FIREWORKS…. AHHHH… OOOHHH PRETTY…
July 4th, 2009 at 4:44 pmare you still pushing that royality gambit? Wow…
July 4th, 2009 at 4:44 pmBadger, I hear what you’re saying about Congress needing to take the necessary steps to get the bills onto the President’s desk, and don’t get me wrong, I still fully support this man, however, as President, he sets the tone and can say without equivocation:
I would also like to see President Obama stand up and say, again without equivocation:
To me, these are two things President Obama could say right now that would provide some assurance to many that he’s moving in the right direction. YMMV
PEACE
July 4th, 2009 at 4:45 pmAnd the president quoted at Focus on the Family…
at
http://www.citizenlink.org/CLtopstories/A000010396.cfm
A funny thing happened in the wake of my comments. The Denver Post requested and printed an interview with me that, in turn, resulted in an invitation to participate in President Obama’s Fatherhood and Mentoring Initiative on June 19. Since I believe there is value and opportunity in looking for common ground, even if it may be only a small patch, I flew to Washington, D.C., for what turned out to be a refreshingly on-target meeting. Take these comments, for example, by President Obama:
I think you and I can agree with that message, right? Personally, I resonated with the president when he spoke about feeling his father’s absence. I felt that same absence in my own childhood after my father left our family. Mr. Obama said:
Guess the president could just as easily have said: the country wasn’t built by absentee fathers either. That is, the country wasn’t built by irresponsible men.
July 4th, 2009 at 4:45 pmActually Another Joe this is the best strategy you have come up with to date.I am anxious to see how it plays out over time…
July 4th, 2009 at 4:46 pmBadger, I hear what you’re saying about Congress needing to take the necessary steps to get the bills onto the President’s desk, and don’t get me wrong, I still fully support this man, however, as President, he sets the tone and can say without equivocation:
I would also like to see President Obama stand up and say, again without equivocation:
To me, these are two things President Obama could say right now that would provide some assurance to many that he’s moving in the right direction. YMMV.
PEACE
July 4th, 2009 at 4:46 pmThey real NAYSAYERS are the ones that say we cannot talk about the general consensus that we need to keep working to encourage Obama and Dems to deliver on their rhetoric!
After all, the repug naysayers have been thoroughly discredited, are supported by about 20 percent of the population, and are becoming even more marginalized each day (losing one presidential candidate each week!).
The naysayers that will prevent positive change are the folks here that obstruct progressive dialog and deny that liberal/progressive politics exist beyond simple cheerleading.
July 4th, 2009 at 4:46 pmsorry, I have no idea how I managed to post twice.
PEACE
July 4th, 2009 at 4:46 pmHoodathunktick Says:
How much more do you want? You were hired as a leader, so please, be about it. If the public does the job, they might begin to wonder just why they hired you.
The problem with Obama is that he is not a “leader”, he is a “consensus builder”. On that ground I give him good marks. The partisan rhetoric has dropped coming out of the White House.
The problem is that even with 70% of Americans wanting changes to the things you specified, he won’t do it because he wants Republican votes. He is going to have to come to a realization soon, either the Republicans won’t reciprocate in being bipartisan, or he is going to have to just do what the American people want and get the legislation passed anyway.
If he keeps trying to get the Republican votes, he will continue to lose the progressives and won’t gain the conservitaves. If he gets the legislation passed, he will keep the progressives and will be in the same place with the conservatives.
If he waits too long, even if he gets the legislation passed, he may lose the progressives anyway.
July 4th, 2009 at 4:47 pm101.Max Anax junius -1 Says: hanshiro, I posted that fat elephant a few days ago and recieved the STFU troll, cold shoulder treatment…
A great many people put their faith out there and busted their butts to put Obama in office based on his rhetoric.
They don’t want to entertain the idea that he wasn’t worth all that effort, or that he is coming up short on the tests he has already been put to. I, on the other hand, want Obama to know that the public is out of patience with this old song and dance. He claimed he knew that already, yet he’s using bush’s justifications to jerk us around all over again.
“Look to the future” over war crimes!?? Is he on crack?
I’ll continue to call out
July 4th, 2009 at 4:49 pmbushObama on his fudged ‘promises,’ joining others like Greenwald and the ACLU; you know, those other “concern trolls…”spencers mom – excatly but a few angry posters here would never tolerate that!
July 4th, 2009 at 4:49 pmThey real NAYSAYERS are the ones that say we cannot talk about the general consensus that we need to keep working to encourage Obama and Dems to deliver on their rhetoric!
——-
July 4th, 2009 at 4:49 pmWho said this and where? Let’s get em but first we gotta find them so let’s have at it shall we? Let’s go find those posts or are you speaking in abstractions?
The President does not legislate but he damn well has the power to tell Congress, ‘This is what I want to see crossing my desk.’ And it is up to Congress to respond. Either with a bill the President will sign or a concise message as to why not.
This seems to be a lack of communication that really needs to be addressed on both sides.
July 4th, 2009 at 4:50 pmyour flame wars…
July 4th, 2009 at 4:51 pmwhat flame wars you are simple making statements that are not true. If what you said was true you should be able to document it correct?
July 4th, 2009 at 4:53 pmThe problem is that even with 70% of Americans wanting changes to the things you specified, he won’t do it because he wants Republican votes.
At the 70% level, one can want in one hand and sh*t in the other. America wants its real ideals back as promised and they are showing their support.
When was the last time a President had 70%+ of the population behind anything besides war?
July 4th, 2009 at 4:54 pmIf the current day NeoCons had been around at the time of the American Revolution, they would have been rooting for King George III.
July 4th, 2009 at 4:54 pmHoodathunktick Says:
The President does not legislate but he damn well has the power to tell Congress, ‘This is what I want to see crossing my desk.’ And it is up to Congress to respond. Either with a bill the President will sign or a concise message as to why not.
This is news to me. Was the Constitution amended while I was sleeping last night?
July 4th, 2009 at 4:56 pmLefty Liberal Says:
The problem with Obama is that he is not a “leader”, he is a “consensus builder”.
Lefty, I would modify that to say that President Obama is spending too much time trying to build consensus and not enough time leading. I don’t believe he is “not a leader” but, as anyone who’s ever managed a group of people knows, there is a time to stop discussion, outline the vision and delegate the responsibility.
As a student of Lincoln, the President should know that he can’t please all of the people all of the time. Groups who rely on consensus only never get anything accomplished. Someone has to step up and provide the necessary leadership to turn ideas into actions, and actions into outcomes.
PEACE
July 4th, 2009 at 4:57 pmCheck again, pags2. The President has not only the right but the duty to request legislation.
It is up to Congress to accept.
July 4th, 2009 at 4:58 pm122. dbadass Says:
The problem is that posts providing evidence that Obama has turned away from his promises again and again being met with ad hom attacks by some regulars. Criticizing posters for posting their justifiable outrage at continued policies by Obama that Obama himself spoke against while he was candidate Obama.
That’s the problem, as you know.
July 4th, 2009 at 4:59 pmspencers mom Says:
sorry, I have no idea how I managed to post twice.
You can say that again! :)
Seriously, I agree with you, and I don’t know why Obama has not Spoken Out More Forthrightly.
Believe me, your point is often made by those in my own family.
I’m just hoping that Obama has his reasons, and will Speak out when he thinks the time is right, and he thinks it will do some good.
July 4th, 2009 at 5:01 pm“These naysayers have short memories”
July 4th, 2009 at 5:01 pmyessir, just last year the naysayers were bobblyheaded “yes men” for the worst president in history. i remember it well.
The only way Obama can fail is if he:
1. Capitulates to the marginalized repugs
2. Does not mend some disenchantment across some of gay/lesbian community
2. For whatever reason, fails to demonstrate that he did whatever was needed to make some meaningful reforms in healthcare that result in universal coverage. This will demand a public option.
Many are going to expect too much too soon in terms of economic recovery. And the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are never going to be “smashing successes” and will always be a divisive factor. The mainstream media will dillegently “catapult the propaganda” from the repugs in 2012.
The only way we fail this administration is we sit back and accept anything less than full-speed-ahead action on the points above and for them to take a “no holds barred” approach. It is justifiable here because these changes are overwhelmingly supported by the public.
Now is the time to deliver the knockout-punch to the folks that brought us dur chimpfurher, please don’t listen to anyone that says we need to hold back and that speaking up is somehow not “progressive.”
July 4th, 2009 at 5:03 pmhanshiro @ 117
What’s the matter, honey? Is your date not turning out
the way you thought it would?
Hell, you’re not even at the restaurant yet.
If posting here gives you a modicum of relief, by all means
July 4th, 2009 at 5:04 pmkeep it up. The rest of us will just scroll right past you…
125.pags2 Says: This is news to me. Was the Constitution amended while I was sleeping last night?
Ummm….ball’s in your court pags2…
July 4th, 2009 at 5:05 pmThat’s the problem, as you know.
—
July 4th, 2009 at 5:05 pmI don’t disagree as you know. The real issue that is being discussed is the delivery and intent. Did you ever have any Deadhead friends that tried to out Dead each other. It was sort of annoying wasn’t it? Did you hear that? Jerry just screwed up there….
Badger, maybe Obama is allowing the Congress members to head home for the break to hear it directly from their constituents. Hope. I cling to hope.
PEACE
July 4th, 2009 at 5:05 pmspencers mom:
I respect what you say, but his resume doesn’t indicate a lot of “leadership” positions. Most have been “consensus” positions. I’m not sure he really does know how to be a leader.
I also think that a lot of the change from being “Candidate Obama” and “President Obama” is the change from David Axelrod being his main advisor to Rahm Emanual. Different styles of advice and tone.
BTW – I agree with what you were saying in posts 110 and 113 (your double post). Well said. That is exactly what a “leader” would be saying.
July 4th, 2009 at 5:06 pmHoodathunktick Says:
Check again, pags2. The President has not only the right but the duty to request legislation.
It is up to Congress to accept.
Tell me which part of the Constitution? I have extensively studied the Constitution and I can assure you there “aint” no such animal.
July 4th, 2009 at 5:06 pm134.dbadass Says: The real issue that is being discussed is the delivery and intent. Did you ever have any Deadhead friends that tried to out Dead each other. It was sort of annoying wasn’t it? Did you hear that? Jerry just screwed up there….
The absolute, arrogantly bald insanity of “Preventative Detention” could hardly be compared to a missed chord….
Among a host of other things like telecom immunity that allowed bush’s crimes to be forever concealed.
July 4th, 2009 at 5:09 pmhanshiro the antlion – if a few self-appointded blog cops weren’t so vicious in their attacks, we could post many of the other areas were the progressive/liberal community has justifiable reasons to be concerned about whether or not obama and dems will deliver on their rhetoric.
There are many areas about secrecy, signing statements, continuation of never-ending wars, bailouts, civil rights for all Americans, and issues like torture where many want to have a reasonable dialog about similarities between what we have seen so far in this administration and the previous one.
The mindless attacks actually serve to limit what people come here to share – I get more information from other blogs now, but won’t let a small clique here manufacture a fake consensus that it is OK to abandon meaningful healthcare reform.
From the posts here, you can see they won’t get away with it. But, just like chimpy and faux news, they have succeeded in limiting the dialog.
July 4th, 2009 at 5:10 pmAgain I am talking about intent and delivery.
July 4th, 2009 at 5:11 pm132.Little Freep Goofballs Says: If posting here gives you a modicum of relief, by all means keep it up. The rest of us will just scroll right past you…
S’okay, I’m not posting for the “yes men,” I post for the progressives…
July 4th, 2009 at 5:13 pmpag2 – if you think you can score any points on this by promoting the idea that because leadership on the issues is not literally written into the constitution, you are entering a mindless, losing battle.
Good thing that there have been leaders that understand the whole point of the Declaration of Independence and Constitution is that the will of the people cannot be eternally thwarted.
Imagine what our nation would be like today if presidents never aggressively advocated for what is right by the majority.
Of course, we just saw 8 years of the opposite…
July 4th, 2009 at 5:13 pmfake concensus seems to be the new bush backwash…
July 4th, 2009 at 5:13 pmbush = buzz
July 4th, 2009 at 5:14 pmpags2, the president is the Top Cop of the country. He is responsible, ultimately for the Justice Department. If the chief law enforcement official is not responsible for making recommendations about law to the legislative branch, just who should be?
July 4th, 2009 at 5:14 pm“intent and delivery” by a little man has appointed himself “special guardian of what is right” and that posts physical threats…
just too funny buddy…
July 4th, 2009 at 5:15 pmAJ,
Props for the delivery @131. There are more for sure, but those three are at the top of my list too.
Here is to a Happy 4th.
July 4th, 2009 at 5:16 pmAnother Joe
July 4th, 2009 at 5:16 pmI am sorry you feelings got hurt. I really am…
Lefty, while his resume may not indicate a history of leadership positions, the man is still a born leader. Witness the campaign he ran. He set the tone, he dictated the strategy, he was the final voice on all decisions. That was not soley Axelrod’s campaign.
Witness the way the world leaders are viewing him. Witness his stance on Israel. Who will blink first? Not the President, I’d wager.
Rahm is the pitbull Obama needs to twist arms, and I don’t know why those arms aren’t being twisted. But don’t get me started on Rahm because I hold him responsible for freezing out Dean from HHS.
PEACE
July 4th, 2009 at 5:16 pmThere are a few other factors that get little air play.
One is that the DOJ, and other departments that are filled by appointees, are still crawling with bushbots. Much of the meat-n-potatoes work of government is still in the hands of short timer Regent U grads who have nothing to lose by slacking, or spying.
Perhaps more problematic is the current make up of the SCOTUS. Most anything done can still be challenged in the court.
And then there’s the less savory reality that the new management has inherited crimes that they wish to cover themselves, and potential witnesses, from prosecution.
But all those, and the many other reasons discussed, are overshadowed by the near certainty that a major disaster attributed to the Obama Administration could still unravel all the gains made. And it would be doubly damaging if there were a legitimate complaint of the Administration overstepping it’s bounds. We can argue about priorities and our impatience all we like but, I don’t want any more catastrophes either.
When I was first reading up on Obama as he gained momentum I kept coming across words like: careful, cautious, deliberate, and thoughtful. And even when I may disagree with his rhetoric those qualities shine through. I can’t think of better qualifications after the recklessness of the past.
July 4th, 2009 at 5:18 pm139. Another Joe Says:
I agree and it cannot be overstated…
July 4th, 2009 at 5:18 pmObama NEEDS progressive and liberals, one of the largests groups of his core support, to maintain a robust dialog about what the nations wants and how he can use that to deliver change.
Without it, he is dead in the water. Funny how the folks that want to limit the dialog are actually who would contribute to a failure of his administration to deliver change and run again in 2012 on the positive theme of “YES WE CAN”.
Without people pushing back and keeping issues on the table, the repugs, with the compliant help of the mainstream media, will eat his lunch (and ours too).
Yet some people’s little petty agendas and narcissistic tendencies are more important than talking about the changes that will make this administration successful.
Absolutely amazing!
July 4th, 2009 at 5:19 pmRahm is the pitbull Obama needs to twist arms, and I don’t know why those arms aren’t being twisted. But don’t get me started on Rahm because I hold him responsible for freezing out Dean from HHS.
A Chief of Staff is the President’s pitbull. I seriously question why Rahm has the post.
July 4th, 2009 at 5:20 pm150. pete Says: When I was first reading up on Obama as he gained momentum I kept coming across words like: careful, cautious, deliberate, and thoughtful. And even when I may disagree with his rhetoric those qualities shine through. I can’t think of better qualifications after the recklessness of the past.
Please elaborate on where advancement of the unhinged policy of “preventative detention” falls in amongst that verbiage…
July 4th, 2009 at 5:21 pmHoodathunktick Says:
pags2, the president is the Top Cop of the country. He is responsible, ultimately for the Justice Department. If the chief law enforcement official is not responsible for making recommendations about law to the legislative branch, just who should be?
The president is commander in chief which is leader of the armed forces, but he cannot make any decision to send them into war. He has to ask Congress, which by the way, the House of Representatives is the only body that can introduce appropriations bills.
The president appoints Cabinet members with the advise and consent of the Senate. These people can ask Congress for legislation just like the president, but they do not have any such duty or power.
The president is not the top cop in the country. The AG is the cop and he decides who gets prosecuted. The AG is separate from the Executive branch and is not subject to the president except the appointment of the AG. Check the Watergate issues with the AG when Nixon fired the AG’s.
July 4th, 2009 at 5:22 pmpete – I can live with whatever action the president finally decides to take, after the previous 8 years, it isn’t going to be worse.
But it could be better and Obama needs a robust dialog behind him to deliver “YES WE CAN!”
I won’t stand down and let a few turn TP into another version of atrio’s eschaton where threads of 300+ comments all proclaim the one above it is a troll.
That blog was always just for a rude clique of insiders, but this one used to have meaningful dialogs and threads full of links to important sources of information.
July 4th, 2009 at 5:24 pmhanshiro @ 141
Mighty quick to label, aren’t you?
I must have touched a nerve.
Oh, and Happy 4th of July to all.
July 4th, 2009 at 5:24 pmwould endlessly b itching about the quality of the threads qualify as an agenda? Did someone say something about being self appointed…
July 4th, 2009 at 5:25 pmwould claiming another was tooo stooopppidddqualify as being self appointed….
July 4th, 2009 at 5:26 pm155.pags2 Says: The AG is the cop and he decides who gets prosecuted. The AG is separate from the Executive branch and is not subject to the president except the appointment of the AG.
This is a naive interpretation. Obama can put pressure on specific areas that want reform or looking into. Obama made clear he wasn’t interested in pursuing bush prosecutions, despite the overwhelming evidence. (and look where that went…) Obama also expressed his opposition to ACLU requests and FOIA situations. There are quite a few instances where Obama has ‘pressured’ his appointees to conform to his policy.
He changed his mind about the photos and voila…
July 4th, 2009 at 5:29 pmyou watch too many tv court dramas…
no, you are not an expert on cross examination – in fact, look pretty lame trying to do it.
But go ahead and make a fool of yourself if you want.
When do the physical threats start?
July 4th, 2009 at 5:29 pmA Chief of Staff is the President’s pitbull. I seriously question why Rahm has the post.
Probably because he KNOWS Congress, inside and out….He hates to Lose…and he’s willing to break legs (Metaphorically).
July 4th, 2009 at 5:30 pmAnother Joe, I’m lost. Who are you referring to and what are these petty little agendas? We may have differing priorities, but isn’t the overall agenda similar here?
PEACE
July 4th, 2009 at 5:30 pmthats sor tof humorous or is it just dodgy?
July 4th, 2009 at 5:31 pmfound at C&L… in honor of July 4th… don’t cheat:
Could you pass the latest citizenship test?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25461301/?GT1=43001
July 4th, 2009 at 5:32 pmhanshiro the antlion and he has pushed release of a report on the torute back week after week and now into the fall.
Looking the other way and not holding people accountable for clear violations of international war, war crimes and crimes against humanity makes you a party to them.
Some here would stifle this dialog, allowing obama to play into the hands of the noise machine that will be out for him in 2012.
Sick little puppies, that is if they really proclaim themselves to be progressives. But more likely, it is just about dominating the threads here cuz they can’t hack the abuse at atrios.
July 4th, 2009 at 5:33 pm157. Little Freep Goofballs Says: Mighty quick to label, aren’t you?
132. Little Freep Goofballs Says: “What’s the matter, honey? Is your date not turning out the way you thought it would?”
Why yes, yes you are.
You obviously aren’t interested in dialogue, just incitement. I don’t instigate, but often I reciprocate. You aren’t worthy of much else.
July 4th, 2009 at 5:35 pmThe president is not the top cop in the country. The AG is the cop and he decides who gets prosecuted. The AG is separate from the Executive branch and is not subject to the president except the appointment of the AG. Check the Watergate issues with the AG when Nixon fired the AG’s.
So when was the last time the AG offered recommendations to Congress about laws?
And while the AG is technically an independent entity, he is still answerable to the President. And one would hope, communicates with the Prez about what is.
The Executive branch is responsible for enforcing the law but you say it has no responsibility about feedback?
July 4th, 2009 at 5:35 pmkaty
July 4th, 2009 at 5:36 pmThanks forposting that. Did you notice the nature of the questions and how they relate to differences in learning styles and higher level thinking?
spencers mom – from what you consistently post, we agree on most things and agree that a robust dialog is what will make them happen.
That is not what some in this thread advocate, however, I choose not to call them out any more than I need too. After all, the “atrios mentality” thrives on that.
It’s just another version of chimpy’s “with us or ‘ginst us” and it is just as detrimental to meaningful government when it is used here as when it was used by that failed administration.
FACT: Without a miracle recovery that no one (including obama) thinks will happen, in 2012 Obama is going to have to be able to proudly say to progressives and liberals that he delivered meaningful change.
That will take a robust dialog.
July 4th, 2009 at 5:37 pmI will say it again.
July 4th, 2009 at 5:38 pm@ least GOB-o-spit is not posting!
spencers mom:
The other day I told another poster that we seemed to be arguing about the differences of a particular shade of gray. I think you and I are doing the same thing today. In this case I think I am a little more pessimistic about President Obama’s resume than you are, but that is what makes for a good discussion. Your posts are always insightful.
I was very surprised and a little disappointed (or was it a little surprised and a lot disappointed…) in his choice to have Rahm Emanuel as his Chief of Staff. I think there were much better choices than him, but Obama needs to have someone that can run the White House, and with only former Clinton staffers to choose from, the list was pretty small.
July 4th, 2009 at 5:39 pmkaty, I’m pleased to say I got a 95%. I am ashamed that my one wrong answer was the number of Constitutional Amendments. I guessed 23 and got a big red WRONG.
Whew! I guess I can stay a citizen. Thanks buddy!
PEACE
July 4th, 2009 at 5:39 pmThe thing about the “preventive detention” flap is that it’s a proposal to adjudicate effed up cases inherited from Bushco. The first draft is, to my inexpert eyes, a plan with a lot of merit. It also has specific time limits and demands court oversight.
There’s a pretty good overview and a link to the draft document here:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=105940019
July 4th, 2009 at 5:40 pmpete Says:
There are a few other factors that get little air play.
One is that the DOJ, and other departments that are filled by appointees, are still crawling with bushbots. Much of the meat-n-potatoes work of government is still in the hands of short timer Regent U grads who have nothing to lose by slacking, or spying.
Perhaps more problematic is the current make up of the SCOTUS. Most anything done can still be challenged in the court.
The biggest issue regarding torture is that Obama is between a rock and a hard place. If the AG prosecutes, the Republicans will say this a partisan prosecution. If the AG doesn’t prosecute, the left will say the whole issue is being whitewashed. The best course is for the AG to give the results of their investigation to Congress and let them decide how best to proceed.
Obama is a consensus builder. He is trying to get the conservaDems and moderate Republicans to vote for his programs. He has no power to push Congress other than public opinion. He must also defer to the legislative process to run its course. The House has given Obama what he wanted. The Senate is the big problem with all of the major initiatives. The Senate is far more deliberative than the House. Reid needs to corral the votes before he brings the legislation to the floor. If the votes are not there, which appears to be the case for health care, then there is no point in bringing the bill to the floor. The Senate Dems and House Dems are working on the legislation so that it will pass each house. This requires negotiations with the houses and sometimes the president. The whole process is subject to public opinion which this president can marshal to pressure Congress if the bill is less than what the president wants.
July 4th, 2009 at 5:44 pmVery good Documentary the History Channel is running this weekend on The Founding Fathers. Very Enlightening to learn how the writers of our Declaration of Independence and Constitution came up with the content.
July 4th, 2009 at 5:47 pmLefty, please don’t misunderstand, I’m not arguing with you, and even when the whole community agrees, shades of grey remain. And it’s healthy to have the optimistic and pessimistic both represented. I’m just choosing to put more of my energy into focusing on what I hope will happen because it’s too draining to worry about what might not happen.
Sorry to go all Suzie Creamcheese on you, but it’s a beautiful day and I still hope.
PEACE
July 4th, 2009 at 5:49 pmHoodathunktick Says:
So when was the last time the AG offered recommendations to Congress about laws?
And while the AG is technically an independent entity, he is still answerable to the President. And one would hope, communicates with the Prez about what is.
The Executive branch is responsible for enforcing the law but you say it has no responsibility about feedback?
The AG decides policies with respect to the enforcement of laws. This must be consistent with the Constitution and statutes. The AG can propose changes to the law and also provides legal advice to the president and Congress. The AG is subject only to the president’s appointment. If the president does not like the way the AG prosecutes, then the president fires the AG. But the next AG is still subject to the advise and consent of the Senate.
July 4th, 2009 at 5:51 pmDamn quite the pissing match but based on the recommends I’ve seen I’d say on Obama’s performance to date …the nays have it .
July 4th, 2009 at 5:52 pmI suggest cherry peppers on that cheese steak…
July 4th, 2009 at 5:53 pmRandomChaos Says:
Very good Documentary the History Channel is running this weekend on The Founding Fathers. Very Enlightening to learn how the writers of our Declaration of Independence and Constitution came up with the content.
If you look really close you can see my signature on both documents.
July 4th, 2009 at 5:53 pm174.pete Says: The thing about the “preventive detention” flap is that it’s a proposal to adjudicate effed up cases inherited from Bushco. The first draft is, to my inexpert eyes, a plan with a lot of merit. It also has specific time limits and demands court oversight.
I’ll let Russ Feingold explain (via Greenwald:)
Pete, your post tells me you are not as familiar with this insanity as you need be (yes, it really is as insane a policy as it sounds), I’ve provided a link to Greenwald’s column to which I hope you’ll avail yourself.
July 4th, 2009 at 5:55 pmSuzie Creamcheese is a wicked hottie…
July 4th, 2009 at 5:55 pmAnother Joe Says:
hanshiro the antlion and he has pushed release of a report on the torute back week after week and now into the fall.
Looking the other way and not holding people accountable for clear violations of international war, war crimes and crimes against humanity makes you a party to them.
Some here would stifle this dialog, allowing obama to play into the hands of the noise machine that will be out for him in 2012.
Sick little puppies, that is if they really proclaim themselves to be progressives. But more likely, it is just about dominating the threads here cuz they can’t hack the abuse at atrios.
I’ve been involved with the Left (we called it the New Left at the time) for more than 40 years. One thing that has been consistent over those years is the presence of the Self-Anointed, who determine which of us is a “real” progressive / leftist / liberal. I have as little patience for it now as I did in 1968.
The other constant is that one can always rely on the Left to fall on one another and devour ourselves, while the Right walks in lockstep. The “leftier than thou” approach is a prime culprit.
AJ, consider the possibility that what puts people’s backs up is not that you express unpopular opinions or that some elite cadre of fake progressives is trying to stifle you. Consider rather that your approach is alienating, starting with that appalling behavior last week (?) when you spammed every thread and complained constantly that ThinkProgress wasn’t living up to your personal expectations.
I think that you and Hanshiro have made good points, and that working to push the Obama administration to the left is an important tactic. But your comments here are so grating and so self-satisfied that I can’t bring myself to listen. Some of those arguing with you are just as bad. There are times when leftists p!ss me off more than the stupidest redneck fundie. This, frankly, is one of those times.
July 4th, 2009 at 5:57 pmA vote on the referendum mandated by the status of forces agreement on whether the US caN REMAIN THERE UNTILL 2012 ?
July 4th, 2009 at 5:58 pmObama says …..nay .
spencers mom, I was hopeful too and willing to let President Obama tackle some more important issues first.
Until the DOJ filed their brief in support of DOMA. Three of the cases they cited to use to back the dismissal of the case was insulting, degrading and dehumanizing to gays and lesbians. That was the point the Obama administration crossed the line with me and they lost my vote.
July 4th, 2009 at 5:58 pmAnother Joe,
I can understand that but, in everyone’s defense, between the increasing hysterics of the Reichwhiners and the summer influx of adolescent trolls most everyone’s temper has become frayed. It would be nice if TP would ban by IP. I have a feeling that blocking two computers would eliminate about 95% of the really batscat ravings. Who knows, without the constant annoyance of the sockpuppets we might start getting more sane people who can be converted from the GOP.
And, just for the record, I don’t consider you a troll and try to let disagreements end with each thread.
July 4th, 2009 at 6:00 pmI can not recommend 184 enough and I would echo the part about good points
July 4th, 2009 at 6:00 pmDb, oh baby whats got into U ?
July 4th, 2009 at 6:01 pmThese naysayers have short memories. They forget that we, as a people, did not get here by standing pat in a time of change. We did not get here by doing what was easy. That is not how a cluster of 13 colonies became the United States of America.
The Republican National Committee issued a one word response to the remarks by President Obama, “No!”
July 4th, 2009 at 6:04 pmhanshiro the antlion,
I read Greenwald’s article with great alarm back in May. I’ve been following the story ever since. I haven’t, however seen a response from either Glenn or Russ Feingold to the actual first draft. As I read it, it looks like an attempt to apply a legal standard to the “limbo cases” and establish a framework to adjudicate them.
It looks to me like the official first draft has addressed many of the questions raised back in May and, I would think, that additional concerns will be raised and addressed.
July 4th, 2009 at 6:10 pmLefty Liberal, there certainly wasn’t a lot of love in that room when the President address the LGBT community this week, and I don’t blame them. I can’t understand how a man who grew up personally knowing discrimination can possibly ask people who are treated as second-class citizens to remain patient, that their time will come. I’ve asked it here before, many times, if he would take that same approach if AA’s were still required to sit in the back of the bus. The President says it’s not a matter of “if” but of “when” and I answer with “NOW”!
Besides, I’m looking forward to Fundie heads exploding! When living in Berkeley many moons ago and driving a beat up Pinto, I had a bumper sticker that read “Too many Christians, not enough lions” as a personal statement about the rise of the “moral majority”. It disappeared one night.
PEACE
July 4th, 2009 at 6:12 pm184. gummble-bee-itch Says: I think that you and Hanshiro have made good points, and that working to push the Obama administration to the left is an important tactic. But your comments here are so grating and so self-satisfied that I can’t bring myself to listen. Some of those arguing with you are just as bad. There are times when leftists p!ss me off more than the stupidest redneck fundie. This, frankly, is one of those times.
Lest we forget, GB, that the very posters who were putting me through the grinder for posting justified dissent didn’t earn your novella during the days and weeks I was bringing such revelations to the attention of some TPers.
I’m finding the selective critique of people like me who’ve already been slapped around, after posting evidence and sources/links to support their views, a tad disingenuous and self-righteous. Several posters have already sought to squelch dialogue along these lines and you remained uniquely silent towards them.
I find that…noteworthy.
July 4th, 2009 at 6:13 pmLL says: That was the point the Obama administration crossed the line with me and they lost my vote.
Lefty, If I may interject. I can understand where you are coming from, given the way this has been playing out. However, from what I can discern the way the arguments were presented in the case. The DOJ had no other precedents available to state thier reasons in the brief. I have seen what seems to be good explanations for this reasoning, and as of yet noone that has decryed it has offered up a better way of trying to present it.
I think this is a case of things being blown out of proportion, in the light of recent other set-backs to the LGBT community. I do believe that eventually President Obama will finally deliver. If he doesn’t, I am right there with you.
Regards,
July 4th, 2009 at 6:14 pmRC
I wonder how obamas celebrating independence day? Probably burning the flag.
July 4th, 2009 at 6:17 pmHi TYR,
July 4th, 2009 at 6:18 pmAren’t you supposed to be out playing in the freeway with a live M80?
I was bringing such revelations to the attention of some TPers.
July 4th, 2009 at 6:20 pm— respectfully I have some difficulty with this. It reads almostas if you are some sort of prophet. Ireally am not trying to be a jerk and instead trying to show how it might be interpreted by those reading it which I think is the point
gummble-bee-itch may have been making.
Hi The Young Republican. Would you like to stick around this time? We seemstohave much to talk of…
July 4th, 2009 at 6:21 pmThe president is required to defend the laws such as DOMA because it is his job. Enforcement is a different story. The president can ignore the law but he does so with the risk that Congress will step in.
July 4th, 2009 at 6:23 pm191.pete Says: It looks to me like the official first draft has addressed many of the questions raised back in May and, I would think, that additional concerns will be raised and addressed.
It represents the most radical detention policy of any “Democratic” country by detaining people without trial:
So, where’s the Habeas Corpus? Where’s the ability to face your accuser and have the evidence presented that the detainee may mount a defense? The government simply has to convince…the government that you’re a bad-enough guy that you stay locked up for however many Freidman units. Would you want to be subject to that kind of “judicial review?”
Me neither.
July 4th, 2009 at 6:25 pmI’m sure you are going to celebrate by burning an effigy of the President of the United States.
July 4th, 2009 at 6:25 pmspencers mom says:
I had a bumper sticker that read “Too many Christians, not enough lions” as a personal statement about the rise of the “moral majority”
LOL, I have a t-shirt with that saying on it. Once, I wore it to a BBQ party where I played dumb and said I was just lamenting the fact that lions are endangered species and that christians should help support efforts to save them. I’m surprised that I didn’t get beat up that day!
July 4th, 2009 at 6:26 pm199.pags2 Says: The president is required to defend the laws such as DOMA because it is his job. Enforcement is a different story. The president can ignore the law but he does so with the risk that Congress will step in.
This is flat wrong. The DOJ can pursue a different course with cases they deem either unconstitutional or choose not to mount a defense. There are a bunch of lawyer-blogs that explain this. Americablog is one.
July 4th, 2009 at 6:26 pmdbadass, seriously, CNTRL F, type your name and search…
what are YOU talking about here…? … not even a menu…!
“behaviorist”? … doctor, heal thyself.
stalking is kinda creepy…
and joe, stop with the patronizing bullshit…
i’ve read up to my ‘citizenship test’ post… that’s enough…
what pete said @150 is probably the most important thing to think about…
and others, of course, but that was the latest…
happy 4th all…
July 4th, 2009 at 6:26 pmSemi On Topic ;-)
July 4th, 2009 at 6:27 pmAnother Good Documentry running this weekend on Secret Societies throughout history and the roles they play in forming, shaping, and manipulating political discourse and control of power.
Hi katy
July 4th, 2009 at 6:29 pmI was hoping you might want to talk about the nature of the test questions but it doesn’t seem that way. As to the behaviorist thing, social ecology is my fieldof interest. Feel free to ask me any questions you have prior to judging what I do…
best-
Oh and katy.
July 4th, 2009 at 6:31 pmpete is a person worthy of great respect and a heck of a naturalist to boot…
197.dbadass Says:
I was bringing such revelations to the attention of some TPers.
— respectfully I have some difficulty with this.
It’s an accurate and perfectly acceptable turn-of-phrase. Stop trying to ‘poison the well’ by mis-characterizing my motives. Comparing my intent to “prophet” is casting arrogance where none was intended by me. I’m not responsible for your projection.
July 4th, 2009 at 6:33 pmpags2 Says:
The president is required to defend the laws such as DOMA because it is his job. Enforcement is a different story. The president can ignore the law but he does so with the risk that Congress will step in.
Yes, you are correct. However that does not give the Obama Administration the right to defame people in the name of upholding a law. Do you know the difference between pedophilia, incest, and same-sex marriage?
INFORMED CONSENT!
In the first two, there is no informed consent, in the last there is. The Obama administration associates a class of people that want nothing more than the same right granted to opposite sex couple with despicable acts.
When his parents were married, laws had recently been changed to allow their marriage. Of all of the US Presidents, he should be aware of this type of discrimination and how it effects people.
July 4th, 2009 at 6:33 pm209
July 4th, 2009 at 6:35 pmI can sincerely say that I have neitherpoison nor a well.I was trying to convey a message of how others may read things. I take you at your word. I was just trying to explain how your words can give a different impression than what you have shown over time to be a respectable mind.
hanshiro the antlion Says:
The DOJ can pursue a different course with cases they deem either unconstitutional or choose not to mount a defense. There are a bunch of lawyer-blogs that explain this. Americablog is one.
The DOJ cannot ignore the laws that are enacted and they are required to defend those laws. If the DOJ elects not to defend the law, the AG can be summoned by Congress to explain his actions. Congress can hold the AG in contempt for failure to defend.
July 4th, 2009 at 6:38 pm212. dbadass Says: I can sincerely say that I have neitherpoison nor a well.I was trying to convey a message of how others may read things.
So now you’re a mindreader and self-proclaimed concern troll to save others the harsh test of thinking for themselves.
You’re not good at it. Please stop doing it.
July 4th, 2009 at 6:39 pmI’m glad I’m neither a progressive nor a liberal! I’m a lifelong moderate who watched in horror and dismay as crooks, fools, and fanatics seized control. I’ve often stated that I grew alarmed when Fallwell proclaimed to have the ear of Raygun and it wasn’t followed by a punchline.
After the follies of the last eight years it’s really hard to have any Faith in our government. And we are right to be suspicious and demanding and vocal. But, personally, I’ve managed to stop being afraid of our government.
I’ll keep writing my Representatives and, at long last, both my Senators from Minnesota but; I no longer go to sleep in a sweat wondering if some fanatic in the White House decided to purify some innocent country with nuclear fire.
I’m pretty sure the reigns of power are in competent hands. And, as I’ve said before, I can’t get too excited about “proposals” and unwritten legislation. I’m not overly concerned with half measures. And I’m certainly not ready to give up on President Obama after he was handed an unprecedented emergency in virtually everything he has any authority over.
Short of an actual civil war, it’s hard to imagine a President inheriting a more dysfunctional office. Chimpy not only failed in every duty he destroyed the actual identity of the office of President. And his cohorts perverted virtually every public office and the very structure of government.
Obama’s first job is still to restore credibility, trust, and respect to the Presidency and, by extension, the government as a whole. I think he’s doing that but still has a long ways to go.
July 4th, 2009 at 6:40 pm213.pags2 Says: The DOJ cannot ignore the laws that are enacted and they are required to defend those laws. If the DOJ elects not to defend the law, the AG can be summoned by Congress to explain his actions. Congress can hold the AG in contempt for failure to defend.
Repeating your post does not strengthen your position. I recommend, again, Americablog. Your claim is not accurate based on the several options I have researched.
July 4th, 2009 at 6:42 pmNo I am a person that showed how others MAY read not WILL read and I don’t remember claiming anything different. Either way I have on numerous times commended your values and intellect. If you wish not to hear the subtle point I am trying to convey that is okay with me.
July 4th, 2009 at 6:43 pmKeep posting Hanshiro, Freeman and other agitators.
This July 4th, Rebel & Agitate for Change
by Jim Hightower
http://www.truthout.org/070409A
I find it odd that President Obama chose July 4th to push his greater agenda. Why not speak about our freedoms and what the Unitary Executive plans to do to prevent further erosion? Ooops, that would be a very short speech.
Trust the Good King. He’ll only preventively detain the bad people, just like only hard core terrorists were killed, tortured, raped, etc. in U.S. custody. And no pictures for any Holocaust like museums!
America is a brand, managed by Red/Blue Corporacrats and their sponsors. Sad.
July 4th, 2009 at 6:48 pmReigns=reins, Doh!
July 4th, 2009 at 6:49 pmLefty Liberal Says:
In the first two, there is no informed consent, in the last there is. The Obama administration associates a class of people that want nothing more than the same right granted to opposite sex couple with despicable acts.
When his parents were married, laws had recently been changed to allow their marriage. Of all of the US Presidents, he should be aware of this type of discrimination and how it effects people.
Informed consent is a concept that is relevant to medical procedures and has nothing to do with this issue.
The President and Congress cannot decide the marriage issue as it relates to the individual states because it is a state issue not a federal one. The President and Congress can pass laws the will permit the federal government to recognize the marriages/civil unions for purposes of federal law such as income taxes. Congress can legislate that sexual orientation can be a factor with respect to rights granted under federal law such as discrimination but not state laws. The federal government has limited power over the issue and cannot decide to make all the states recognize such marriages. The discrimination laws would have to be amended by Congress to allow sexual orientation as a factor. But they cannot decide that state marriage laws qualify under the discrimination statutes. That is a state’s rights issue.
July 4th, 2009 at 6:50 pmOops, I thought I was logging into Think Progress but for some strange reason my browser was redirected to Another Joe’s Blog.
July 4th, 2009 at 6:52 pmpete:
July 4th, 2009 at 6:53 pmsadly the increased precip predicted by most models seems manifested in recent local events although of course in no cause/effect way.Word is that a red tropic bird is summering in NE. That’s sort of odd
pete Says:
I’m glad I’m neither a progressive nor a liberal! I’m a lifelong moderate who watched in horror and dismay as crooks, fools, and fanatics seized control.
I am a Chicago Democratic machine Dem. Progressive but not a flaming liberal.
July 4th, 2009 at 6:54 pm217.dbadass Says: If you wish not to hear the subtle point I am trying to convey that is okay with me.
Your ‘concern’ is noted and will be filed in an appropriate receptacle, along with the “manners advocate” shtick…
July 4th, 2009 at 6:54 pmgummble-bee-itch Says:
July 4th, 2009 at 5:57 pm
**standing ovation**
July 4th, 2009 at 6:55 pmwhatever..
July 4th, 2009 at 6:56 pmbest-
What good things have republicans done for America lately?
July 4th, 2009 at 7:03 pmI’ll keep the OT brief.
Funny you should mention the weather, dbadass. There was a great story on the local PBS channel about the various species that have advanced their range from the south over the last twenty years. That part was old hat for me but well presented.
But, the part that stuck out is that there is a dry zone that has migrated from about twenty miles south of the Twin Cities into the greater Metro Area. (Minneapolis/St. Paul)
I’ve lived just to the south of this dry zone, where every field has irrigation, for most of my life. I had observed the movement of this whole ecosystem and hadn’t made the connection until I saw this show. I hadn’t made the connection but I had watched as the irrigation moved north. It was really cool to see it all laid out with professional graphics.
BTW. One of the more interesting vagrant species is several water moccasins captured or killed in extreme Southern Minnesota. The prevalent theory is that they arrive on barges but it doesn’t appear that they can handle the winters. Yet.
July 4th, 2009 at 7:05 pmWell, in 2006 and 2008 many of them went home.
July 4th, 2009 at 7:05 pmAs near as I can tell, dbadass was not characterizing your intent; merely suggesting how the tone comes across to others.
I also noticed you failed to pick up on gum’s critique, which said essentially the same thing — it’s not the information you bring that draws criticism so much as the tone with which it’s presented.
If you’re content to present your points with the same grating presence, dismissing other progressives the way you do, even when good folks like gum have suggested the ineffectiveness of that approach, then that tells us a good bit about your intent, whether you recognize it or not.
July 4th, 2009 at 7:07 pmBrain From Planet Arous says, “OK, Obama, you send the US Navy to rescue a captain of a Danish owned Maersk ship that was hijacked by Somali pirates in international water, and order the pirates shot, but you refuse to help a former US Congresswoman, hijacked by Israeli pirates/Navy in international waters who was delivering crayons, food, and medical supplies to Palestinians being subjected to genocide and Apartheid.”
I wish our elected officials would treat taxpaying, working class, American citizens just 10% as good as they treat the Israelis. All Israelis have universal health care, courtesy of American taxpayers.
July 4th, 2009 at 7:07 pmKayInMaine Says:
What good things have republicans done for America lately?
Hiked the Apalachian trail???
July 4th, 2009 at 7:08 pmI read that the native Inuit people, in Alaska and northern Canada have no name for a strange new bird which as begun to migrate there. In Illinois, we call them robins.
July 4th, 2009 at 7:09 pmThey don’t call it Turdus migratoris for nuttin’
July 4th, 2009 at 7:14 pmpags2,
And DOMA is ALL about FEDERAL benefits. By supporting DOMA, the Federal Government is discrimenting against gay and lesbian people by not granting them the same benefits as straight couples EVEN IF THEY ARE LEGALLY MARRIED IN THEIR STATE!!!!
In addition, and I will keep saying this until it sinks into your thick head – THE CASE LAW THAT WAS CITED DEFAMED A CLASS OF US CITIZENS AND DID NOT NEED TO BE USED TO MAKE THEIR CASE.
Read page 18 lines 2-11 of the brief and that will tell you what the Obama administration really feels about gays and lesbians in this country.
July 4th, 2009 at 7:14 pmpags2 says:
Informed consent is a concept that is relevant to medical procedures and has nothing to do with this issue.
Nonsense, it is a concept that is needed to engage in any legal contract. Both parties must be able to enter into a binding agreement which marriage is one of those contracts.
July 4th, 2009 at 7:18 pmRobins around here eat Earthworms.
Does this mean the permafrost is history?
July 4th, 2009 at 7:19 pmshoeless Says:
I saw a mention of that myself, shoeless. I live right at a boundary between zones so I’ve seen all sorts of animals change their ranges. I didn’t see an opossum until I was thirty and now there’s one every mile or so along every back road.
Ducks, geese, and other migratory birds have altered their migration habits. Invasive species that used to be held back by winter are finding niches where they can survive. It’s a huge list. Oddly, the overal upset of the ecological zones has even caused a couple species, bears and great gray owls, to expand their range southward.
One doesn’t really need to understand much science background, though I have more than most, to understand that our climate and ecology are changing. Ask anyone who has spent 40 years in the woods and rivers and swamps of the North Country and they’ll tell you things are screwy.
July 4th, 2009 at 7:19 pm231. ralph the wonder locust Says: As near as I can tell, dbadass was not characterizing your intent; merely suggesting how the tone comes across to others. I also noticed you failed to pick up on gum’s critique, which said essentially the same thing — it’s not the information you bring that draws criticism so much as the tone with which it’s presented.
Interesting how you show such concern over how I handle your condescension and outright attacks for some of my posts, particularly ones where I called Obama’s policy into question-issues-and people like you attacked the messenger, me.
Ralph, you got nothin’ here except a knot in your tail; looking to start a fight by doing your own mindreading shtick. I didn’t see you, either, stepping up when others attacked and smarted off at those few for posting clear evidence, sources and links that the attackers happened to dislike.
If you’re content to present your points with the same grating presence
I’ll put your ‘concern’ next to Mr. ‘Manners Advocate.’
July 4th, 2009 at 7:22 pmFrom NOLO.com:
While the term is most commonly used in a medical setting, it is not restricted to that setting. Notice the reference to Miranda warnings at the end.
July 4th, 2009 at 7:23 pmApparently.
July 4th, 2009 at 7:23 pmhttp://tpzoo.wordpress.com/2009/07/04/happy-233rd-birthday-usa/
Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.
America has a long train of abuses and usurpations, one’s not reined in by the other two branches. There are no investigations or prosecutions, just look forward. And heavens, don’t release the pictures!
July 4th, 2009 at 7:24 pmSave some sky-rockets, cuz if ANY health Care “refrm” bill gets to Obama’s desk, he’ll sign it…
He’s GOT TO HAVE some kind of “VICTORAY” even if it’s essentially meaningless and cosmetic.
And the day he signs it, there’ll be a media ORGASM like the 4th of July, Mothers’ Day, and New Years all at the same time.
July 4th, 2009 at 7:25 pmNot a year goes by that we don’t have reports of great grey owl when we never used to have more than a few. Things are mixed up. The oceansare really in transition. Everything is weird.
July 4th, 2009 at 7:25 pmBadger Says:
Robins around here eat Earthworms.
Does this mean the permafrost is history?
It’s a strong possibility. I know that when my Dad took me to Canada on fishing trips as a child, they didn’t have nightcrawlers, a big earthworm, for bait. They do now.
I also seem to recall reading that robins feed their chicks insects because they are more protein per ounce. But don’t quote me on that.
July 4th, 2009 at 7:26 pmFor all the froth and argument, I would rather live in a world where people like hanshiro and AJ (on his rational days) have a voice. And where folks like dbadass and ralph and others can call them to discussion.
And that discussion deals with issues every American needs to hear about.
The founding fathers didn’t agree on everything any more than we can. But they could bring a discussion to the table.
I think it was Patrick Henry who said I may not agree with what you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
July 4th, 2009 at 7:26 pmpeople like you attacked the messenger, me.
– Is he just upset that they got the wrong messiah…
July 4th, 2009 at 7:27 pmI’m ready to give up on bothering to read the comment section here at our beloved TP. It seems we’ve evolved into a petty name-calling school yard.
I’ll continue to visit TP (as well as The Zoo….you zoo keepers rock!) but it’s becoming too difficult to find the insightful comments as opposed to the personal mud-slinging.
Happy Independence Day all! May life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness be our common bond….today and always.
July 4th, 2009 at 7:28 pmWhatever, hanshiro. You’re guilty of the exact same sins of which you accuse others, and you seem to have no capacity for letting old disputes go and taking comments at face value once your sensibilities have been offended.
It doesn’t matter to me that you’ve decided I have nothing to offer the discussion. I expected nothing else from you, sadly.
Do you at least acknowledge that you were wrong about dbadass’s comment referring to your intent?
July 4th, 2009 at 7:28 pmpete Says:
I’m glad I’m neither a progressive nor a liberal! I’m a lifelong moderate who watched in horror and dismay as crooks, fools, and fanatics seized control.
With the compliance and complicity of the “moderates” who werer terrified that, once again, us dirty phuqing hippies were right.
it was moderates who gave the phuquing country to the Busheviks, for christ’s sake.
and it’s “moderates” who will cost us this one good chance to actually fix the system.
July 4th, 2009 at 7:30 pmI’ve read that Lots of Greenhouse gasses, Methane in Particular, are trapped in the permafrost. Melting this permafrost creates a feedback loop….melting more of it.
We’re messing with stuff that could provide tragic evidence of the law of unintended consequences.
Instead of the Canary in coal mine…were seeing Robins in the permafrost.
July 4th, 2009 at 7:33 pmYou do realize that EarthFirst and SeaShepard deliberately went overboard to position moderates with more cards for negotition I assume…
July 4th, 2009 at 7:34 pmtokin librul Says:
pete Says:
I’m glad I’m neither a progressive nor a liberal! I’m a lifelong moderate who watched in horror and dismay as crooks, fools, and fanatics seized control.
With the compliance and complicity of the “moderates” who werer terrified that, once again, us dirty phuqing hippies were right.
it was moderates who gave the phuquing country to the Busheviks, for christ’s sake.
and it’s “moderates” who will cost us this one good chance to actually fix the system.
You are right, tokin liberal, that Chimpy never would have won without traditional moderates. Many of us were fooled but I wasn’t one of them. The first time I saw George Sr’s idiot man-child I knew he was an idiot. And, despite my moderate views, I’m a long-haired freak from age 8. Though today I’m a “long-haired bald guy”.
But, it’s looking like America’s moderates have realized that the fanaticism of the GOP is wrong. You may be concerned that the Democratic party is moving right but I also think that many former Republicans, like myself, have switched our allegiance to the Democratic party.
Personally? You’ll just have to take my word that I have placed qualifications ahead of dogma in every candidate I’ve ever voted for. Including the last two elections where I voted a straight, Democratic, ticket.
I have come to the conclusion, and I think it’s quite common, that anyone who still identifies themselves as a Republican is deranged and unfit for office.
July 4th, 2009 at 7:48 pmTalk is cheap. America was built by people who actually did something without trepidation. So far that’s not President Obama.
July 4th, 2009 at 7:49 pmopen your cyber eyes I’m mooning you all right now .
July 4th, 2009 at 7:49 pmI see dingleberries…
July 4th, 2009 at 7:50 pmWe’re messing with stuff that could provide tragic evidence of the law of unintended consequences.
We’ve been knowing this was coming, inevitably and ineluctably for 35 or more years. Whatsoever the consequences now are, they aren’t “unintended.” More like what the war machine calls “collateral damage.”
July 4th, 2009 at 7:55 pmBadger Says:
I’ve read that Lots of Greenhouse gasses, Methane in Particular, are trapped in the permafrost. Melting this permafrost creates a feedback loop….melting more of it.
We’re messing with stuff that could provide tragic evidence of the law of unintended consequences.
Instead of the Canary in coal mine…were seeing Robins in the permafrost.
Indeed. (NOTE: If anyone is bothered by the off topic discussion let us know.)
The worst case scenario where the permafrost, and/or methane clathrate on the sea floor, would theoretically result in a self-sustaining catastrophic climate change. There are a few extinction events that were apparently caused by similar cascade events where climate change initiated a fundamental change in the atmosphere’s chemistry.
July 4th, 2009 at 7:56 pmThose are my prayer beads .
July 4th, 2009 at 7:58 pmTroll city here today, & predictably, they all recommend each other’s whining comments.
July 4th, 2009 at 7:59 pmdbadass Says:
Not a year goes by that we don’t have reports of great grey owl when we never used to have more than a few. Things are mixed up. The oceansare really in transition. Everything is weird.
Right you are, db.
We all have our pet issues and human emissions and other ecological impacts are the ones that really alarm me. As many as a billion people seem destined to run out of fresh water in the next thirty years. It’s probably impossible to prevent. Yet we still waste time arguing about whether a problem exists instead of working to solve it.
July 4th, 2009 at 8:04 pmAnother donut for the thought police ?
July 4th, 2009 at 8:09 pmAnd President Obama cannot “get there” by offering a hand across the aisle. His political enemies will always be his enemies–just fewer and more stupid. It is time to lead on many fronts, not just adjust to the wind. Hundreds of millions voted for this man believing he would stand up for real change. Haven’t seen it yet. Not impressed, and won’t vote for him again unless he fights for what is right and he recognizes those of us who elected him. He seems to like Republicans and corporate lobbyists much more than he likes me. Stuff it Raum, and get out of D.C. and meet a few real Americans.
July 4th, 2009 at 8:09 pminside of my head… The thought police beside my bed…
July 4th, 2009 at 8:11 pmCurious. We see complaints of trolls but, for the last couple hours, we’ve seen an open debate. A few contentious remarks and digs have been exchanged but, mostly, it just seems like a clearing of the air regarding some disputes that have been simmering.
I would say that the overall mood is kind of like the first family dinner after a hypothetical Marcia shoved the annoying one in pigtails down the stairs.
Spats happen but I haven’t seen much “trolling”. Heck! I’m having fun.
July 4th, 2009 at 8:15 pmPete, no fun allowed, this is serious!
I kid, I kid…
PEACE
July 4th, 2009 at 8:19 pmwho cares what you think pete
July 4th, 2009 at 8:22 pmOh no mom ,now I will always have a mental picture of you as florence henderson ……
July 4th, 2009 at 8:25 pmThat seems sort of rude and unwarranted…
July 4th, 2009 at 8:26 pmBad Manners, freeman.
Why would we wade thru 268 Comments on a Saturday Nite, if we didn’t care what people think?? In fact, I go out of my way to read what pete thinks.
July 4th, 2009 at 8:29 pmfreeman, I’d prefer you think of me more as Florence, Italy.
PEACE
July 4th, 2009 at 8:30 pmI might add that, doubts and anxiety aside, I’m a LOT more proud of my country than I was last Independence Day. I can live with a few short-term disappointments. I’m convinced that we, as a nation, have decided to fix things for everyone after a long stretch of irrational promotion of a cabal.
July 4th, 2009 at 8:32 pmIt’s hard to say which of you is funnier .For Petes sake I was joking .How about florence nightinggale ?
July 4th, 2009 at 8:35 pmHappy Independence Day to you too, Freeman.
July 4th, 2009 at 8:39 pmMy suggestion is that Obama co opt the lot of us as a new department of the federal government DB it was you who brought up my my dingleberries .
July 4th, 2009 at 8:40 pmwell when people think of you mooning what comes to mind for most? Do tell…
July 4th, 2009 at 8:43 pmOK pete thats settled .Lets think of today as a kind of chineese new year a day for new beginnings . Make a wish .
July 4th, 2009 at 8:46 pmBlessed are the peacemakers, for they shall inherit recommends.
PEACE
July 4th, 2009 at 8:51 pmAll holidays and anniversaries are times for reflection and new beginnings, freeman. And, as I said earlier, I try to separate threads and drop old disputes. As far as I can tell we don’t have a dispute today.
July 4th, 2009 at 8:53 pmspencers mom Says:
Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall inherit recommends.
If I have my Life Of Brian right it goes; “Blessed are the cheesemakers. Big Nose!”
And peace to you today and all days, spencers mom.
July 4th, 2009 at 8:57 pmpete Says:
I might add that, doubts and anxiety aside, I’m a LOT more proud of my country than I was last Independence Day. I can live with a few short-term disappointments. I’m convinced that we, as a nation, have decided to fix things for everyone after a long stretch of irrational promotion of a cabal.
I would like to believe that the dark days of Bush can never be repeated. But then I said the same thing about Nixon and here we are 30 years later with cleaning up the debris from a lawless administration. I fear that when the economy is better that the people will fall for the Republican siren song of less government and less taxes. However, if Obama can achieve a long lasting health care plan, it will change the politics for decades.
July 4th, 2009 at 8:58 pmI couldn’t agree more, pags2. We must always be vigilant and vocal. On the other hand, I am hopeful that it would take a catastrophe to give the GOP, as it exists today, a resurgence.
That’s why the worst of them keep talking about a new terrorist attack, or bread-lines, or a plague. I actually tend to agree that that’s the only thing that will save their party in the short term. Obviously, I hope, that’s not what I want or expect.
July 4th, 2009 at 9:05 pmDid you hear about the ‘Tea Bagger Parties’? Apparently they were a real bust. Like we didn’t see that coming.
July 4th, 2009 at 9:07 pmpags,
If/when the economy improves and Obama keeps these tax cuts for the middle class and below but raises them on the highest earners, I don’t think the vast majority of Americans are going to fall for the “Obama raised taxes!” argument.
Especially if they wind up with healthcare, green jobs are created, the GNOP’s “it’s gonna cost each family $3000+/year for carbon offsets” boogieman is proven false, the troops are returning from Iraq, the financial sector is regulated, the unemployed start back to work, and our reputation around the world dramatically improves.
The lightning rod issue of gay rights better damn well be favorably resolved, which will serve to try to galvanize the “base” but when that (shrinking) base see so many other improvements in our nation, I believe they will be less likely to vote soley on polarizing “values” issues.
In the words of John Lennon, “You can say I’m a dreamer, but I’m not the only one.”
PEACE
July 4th, 2009 at 9:13 pmpete Says:
I am hopeful that it would take a catastrophe to give the GOP, as it exists today, a resurgence.
That’s why the worst of them keep talking about a new terrorist attack, or bread-lines, or a plague.
pete, since Obama has decided to continue the illegal wiretapping practice (damn!) I hope to hell they’re tapping the crap out of the wingnuttery, including and especially those who just left office.
I don’t put anything past them in their quest to regain power and if a few thousand more Americans have to die in order for them to attain their goals, they wouldn’t care, just more collateral damage. Just listen to Cheney – he’s salivating at the prospect of another attack that can be attributed to terrorist and blamed on Obama.
Makes me sick.
PEACE
July 4th, 2009 at 9:20 pmBravo, spencers mom.
If I may presume to add?
I have never been more convinced that we have been electing rational, moral, people to office. There are a few dinosaurs left but with any success of the “new order” they become more irrelevant.
July 4th, 2009 at 9:21 pmGreed is a very strong emotion. The Republicans appeal to that by making promises about cutting taxes. In time, people will forget the lessons from Bush. My hope is that Obama can build a coalition with the bold initiatives and that it will last as long as FDR’s coalition.
July 4th, 2009 at 9:22 pmLet me tie the last two comments together.
Yes, I heard about the Tea Parties. They had one in a park, in a town close to where I live. They had a short piece covering it on the local News. The tea-baggers were upset about High Taxes and government Taking over everything…
Never mind that the tax changes haven’t even gone into effect…and the governments share of the GDP is a tiny sliver.
My point is…that Despite Bush , and Sanford, and Palin et al….These People ARE NOT going Away. Despite being currently Marginalized…..these values voters, NRA members, and anti-Tax People will not give up, and will bide their time.
We progressives dismiss their efforts at our own peril. We need to remain vigilant….and not let their lies, smears,and attacks go unchalenged. Not a one.
I DO think we have finally figured this out.
July 4th, 2009 at 9:25 pmspencers mom Says:
pete, since Obama has decided to continue the illegal wiretapping practice (damn!) I hope to hell they’re tapping the crap out of the wingnuttery, including and especially those who just left office.
That’s one of the more difficult issues of our day. Some critics claim that Obama is assuming powers that Bushco misused. That’s a perfectly legitimate concern.
But I hope that every power granted is being used to restore accountability. And I don’t think they’re doing a bad job so far.
July 4th, 2009 at 9:27 pmI have no clue what the tea baggers real complaint is because their taxes have not changed.
July 4th, 2009 at 9:32 pmBadger says:
No, they’re not going away, but the more moderate and fiscal conservative members of the party are leaving in droves, most moving to Independent, but some making the full leap to Dem. And the smaller the GNOP base, especially in states with closed primaries (PA being one) the more extreme the candidates on the GNOP side become, which leads to more losses in all but the most gerrymandered districts.
Next year’s senate race here in PA will be interesting. The GNOP is currently favoring Toomey, former Club for Growth prez because Tom Ridge is just too damn moderate for their tastes! I hope Sestak challenges Specter and wins in the primary because there is no way Toomey wins the general.
PEACE
July 4th, 2009 at 9:34 pmAnd this ?
July 4th, 2009 at 9:36 pmhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kk4mGbWx3a0&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Esalon%2Ecom%2Fopinion%2Fgreenwald%2F2009%2F06%2F27%2Fpreventive%5Fdetention%2Findex%2Ehtml&feature=player_embedded
and this ?
July 4th, 2009 at 9:38 pmhttp://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/11/30/AR2008113002217.html?hpid=topnews
and this ?
July 4th, 2009 at 9:40 pmhttp://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/01/22/obama-sides-with-bush-in_n_160170.html
How about this one ?
July 4th, 2009 at 9:41 pmhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=seAR1S1Mjkc
?
July 4th, 2009 at 9:43 pmI think that when the TeaBaggers complain about tax increases, they are really talking about Property Taxes, and State and Local Fee Increases.
Most are not wealthy enough to pay more in Federal income taxes, which is the only thing Obama and congress have control over.
Under Bush, Federal Aid to States and Local Govts. was cut, education (which eats up most of the property taxes) was allowed to deteriorate…and the States found themselves with Huge Budget deficits.
And the tea baggers never mention that America spends more on Defense and Wars than all the other countries combined.
Low information voters…with catchy propoganda lines…that’s what I see.
July 4th, 2009 at 9:45 pmI’m curious to see how Crazy Shelly (InsaneR, Mn.) fares, spencers mom.
Between her growing national image as a lunatic, and the probability that the Democratic Party will spend some bucks as payback for the whole Franken lawsuit BS, it should be fascinating.
July 4th, 2009 at 9:45 pmZooey Says:
Maybe our side could quit pissing and moaning about Obama ALL THE TIME?
Got a problem with the president? Email him, and tell him about it.
Does that email pass through multi-Israeli firsters like Rahmmie, Joe “I am a Zionist” Biden, and his entire economic team? Or does it pass through Verizon and AT&T? Maybe Lockheed, Boeing, and General Electric? Hmmmmm.I know…Pfizer and Merck. Nope…..Archer Daniels Midland and Monsanto perhaps?
All of the above.
Now take a bath both you Palin/Bushie/Limbaugh-trons and you Netanyahoogoogle/Obaaaaama/Biden-ites.
Happy birthday America, and may you survive this Bi-Partisan raping and looting.
July 4th, 2009 at 9:59 pmIndefinite detention/habeas corpus?
July 4th, 2009 at 10:03 pmsigning statements ?
20 000 troops to be put on american soil by 2012 ?
An expanded version of bushes secrecy defense in the courts ?
domestic spying ?
hello ? mom ? Pete?
any opinions on these FACTS ?
freeman Says:
grunt blegh erf
Hey, dim bulb. Learn how to use a computer.
July 4th, 2009 at 10:04 pmi hope you libs “ace” the following question.
how long has this been going on – your hatred of america?
July 4th, 2009 at 10:05 pmpete, my prediction is that Batshit Bachmann won’t run again after she’s arrested for frolicking naked in a fountain in front of some bank or insurance company in broad daylight somewhere in MN.
That woman’s meds clearly aren’t properly balanced and it’s only a matter of time.
PEACE
July 4th, 2009 at 10:06 pmGame of Life Says:
Brain From Planet Arous Says:
This sounds interesting, please link.
I can’t wait to read! hurry!
http://rawstory.com/08/news/2009/07/03/cynthia-mckinney-the-israelis-hijacked-us/
http://www.hubdub.com/m46227/_Will_Cynthia_McKinney_still_be_in_an_Israeli_prison_by_the_end_of_the_day_on_July_5th
Where is the Brother in the White House defending the Sister? Speak up, OBAMA…WE ARE WATCHING, THE WORLD IS WATCHING!!!!
July 4th, 2009 at 10:08 pmgummble-bee-itch Says:
Hey, dim bulb. Learn how to use a computer.
July 4th, 2009 at 10:04 pm
———
another mocha lib mouthing off.
July 4th, 2009 at 10:08 pmmichelle bachmann – true conservative republican representation.
July 4th, 2009 at 10:09 pmthe 4 of july with democrats in charge. this doesn’t feel right and it certainly doesnt feel america. who’s telling the story of america right now? nobody from this administration.
July 4th, 2009 at 10:10 pmthe great GOPsby Says:
Why are you so consumed with hate?
July 4th, 2009 at 10:12 pmI didn’t realize I was being asked a question, freeman. I have lots of opinions but it would help to narrow it down.
The short version is that I think the Administration is doing some things I don’t understand or agree with. I knew that going in and I’m still satisfied overall.
I have also noted that much of the criticism, from either party, is based on something that hasn’t happened or might happen or isn’t happening fast enough. Frankly I don’t see any sign that Obama is seizing dictatorial powers. I see him dealing with a nation in crisis.
And, as I’ve said, I’m not ready to judge him on proposals and impending legislation and lack of actions.
July 4th, 2009 at 10:15 pmthe great GOPsby Says:
Why are you so consumed with hate?
——————–
hating liberals simply makes a better american. and it makes america better. and the flaming dolts like you reflect poorly on my country. you need to pull your pants up and drop the sense of entitlement.
July 4th, 2009 at 10:16 pmthe great GOPsby Says:
i hope you libs “ace” the following question.
how long has this been going on – your hatred of america?
I would say both the Republican/Conservatives and the Democrat/Liberals have been hijacked by the same corporate/military pirates, much the same way Extreme Crazed Violent Militants have hijacked the Christian Religion and turned the Prince Of Peace in a psychotic War Monger.
So it is not a hatred of America that each illusionary right and left has, but it is by design that Conservatives and Liberals would both think the opposite side hates our country.
So why don’t we unite and realize the enemy is within, it is corporate, it is genetic, it is sickness, it is war.
Ed Schultze vs Rush Limbaugh…LOL!!LOL! Two fat blabbering blathering Cro-Magnons supposedly representing “The People”
July 4th, 2009 at 10:16 pmWe are consumed with hate? I’m a lover not a fighter. besides, the only ones I see spreading hate are the GOPers who hate anyone who isn’t white, straight and rich. Just an observation.
July 4th, 2009 at 10:17 pmAw crap! I was hoping the trolls had blown each other…
up and we wouldn’t be bothered.
July 4th, 2009 at 10:18 pm@307, Michelle Bachmann. Is that supposed to be snarky or are you serious? LOL! Yeah, dear Michelle IS the face of the Repug Party. What a spokeswoman!
July 4th, 2009 at 10:19 pmon this 4 of july, obami still hasn’t created jobs. the gop gave him a clean plan to ramp up military spending and add new bases for a real economic boost. so far he has refused. and the american people are takeing note.
July 4th, 2009 at 10:19 pmyeah my syntax and punctuation are a mess too , right gummitch ? As are my cheerleading skills .
July 4th, 2009 at 10:19 pmthe great GOPsby Says:
Have you ever considered therapy or an anger management class?
July 4th, 2009 at 10:20 pmYeah right GOPsby! That’s why Obama’s approval rating is still pretty high and the Gopers are in the toilet.
July 4th, 2009 at 10:21 pmReggie Says:
the great GOPsby Says:
Have you ever considered therapy or an anger management class?
————
referral is projection.
July 4th, 2009 at 10:22 pmYeah right GOPsby! That’s why Obama’s approval rating is still pretty high …
————
pretty natural for any president.
July 4th, 2009 at 10:23 pmWhen I was growing up, a long time ago, “conservative” meat to be careful, logical, and deliberate. The psychopaths who have hijacked the name are utterly reckless and radical. There isn’t anything “conservative” about them.
July 4th, 2009 at 10:23 pmYeah. What happened to fiscal responsibility? Isn’t that the Repug trademark? Well, it didn;t happen during the Bush years. But how they loved those tax cuts for the super-wealthy while are kids pay for it.
July 4th, 2009 at 10:26 pmReggie Says:
the great GOPsby Says:
Have you ever considered therapy or an anger management class?
Hey Reggie, some advice. Answer people on their issues, and not perceived personalities. Some of the stuff I heard from “Progressives” on this site are as bad as saying the exact same information on FreeRepublic. This was documented fact, and the reaction is the same. From my point of view, if you go off the programmed course from any “religion” or herd mentality be prepared to be called “A Heretic”
July 4th, 2009 at 10:26 pmYeah. What happened to fiscal responsibility? Isn’t that the Repug trademark? Well, it didn;t happen during the Bush years. But how they loved those tax cuts for the super-wealthy while are kids pay for it.
—————–
our grandchildren will be struggling to pay down the porkulus bill!!!! it will be the new grapple at the kitchen table!!!! defense stuff and linkage with private industry is a wonderful use of taxpayer dollars! it promotes warmth and community and safety!!!
July 4th, 2009 at 10:34 pmBrain From Planet Arous Says:
Gobspy isn’t here for debate and doesn’t respond to civil discourse.
July 4th, 2009 at 10:34 pmIn his short history at Think Progress, he has spammed threads with abuses statements and offers nothing but scorn towards anyone who tries to reason with him.
where are the jobs? the porkulus has failed and obama has failed. pelosi should hand the speakership to boehner and obama and biden should resign!!!
July 4th, 2009 at 10:37 pmI treat people with the respect they earn. In the case of the sockpuppet that’s currently called GOPsby, or whatever, their is no respect due.
Sometimes I ignore him and sometimes I express scorn. On the occasions where I have tried a reasoned debate on a subject on which we might have some common ground? It’s greeted with the utmost disrespect.
July 4th, 2009 at 10:41 pmHey bama you are so full of BS. Do you really think people with brains cannot see through your agenda? In your first line you say we are fighting two wars, one on the economy and one on spiraling health care, dependency on foreign oil and inadequate schools. Anybody with a brain can solve these problems and you know it. You just have alternative plans and refuse to deal with the real solutions. You point out the obvious and pretend to be concerned all the while you push through policies that won’t ever solve these problems. They just increase our dependency on big government.
Quick solutions for you mr.BS
1. Lower the tax rate for business or eliminate it. When business and the business owners pays taxes it’s called double taxation. New business will flourish and this recession will be over in no time.
2. Stop spending money to grow the government and balance the budget. Like the congress did under BJ Clinton.
3. Drill for oil, build oil refineries, create nuclear power plants, and support alternative energy in this country first. DUGH!!!
4. Let the schools compete against each other by letting the parents choose which school they want to send their kids to. Issue vouchers it works.
5. Release your new and increasing grip on business. Let them
breath without government controls.
These are answers to your problems. Any moron can see these would work to solve the problems you mentioned. You just keep ignoring the solutions while pretending to deal with them. I see what you are doing and I am sure others do as well.
July 4th, 2009 at 10:43 pm@325, Listen here, I have no problem spending tax money to fix OUR roads, OUR bridges, OUR schools, OUR children. Repugs have No problem using OUR money to wage war and to enable the wealthy. So you know what, I could give a crap to the argument that OUR children will pay, THEY have been paying.
July 4th, 2009 at 10:45 pmy theory on the great GOPsby is that at least two people have access to that account; one is snarky and parodies right-wing trolls and the other actually believes the right-wing crap it posts.
Lately the true believer has had most of the computer time, but it seems like the parody troll is getting its turn now.
July 4th, 2009 at 10:47 pmour grandchildren will be struggling to pay down the porkulus bill
What about paying down the debt that G W Bush left as his legacy, something close to 5 1/2 trillion dollars?
July 4th, 2009 at 10:48 pmIsn’t ironic that Clinton left office with a budget surplus which Bush squandered and he left office with the economy in ruins?
Reggie, I’m afraid reality isn’t a part of GOPsby forte.
July 4th, 2009 at 10:50 pmP.d.
July 4th, 2009 at 10:51 pmOur children would be paying if they could find jobs.
bush wiped out a lot of those, too.
pete Says:
When I was growing up, a long time ago, “conservative” meat to be careful, logical, and deliberate. The psychopaths who have hijacked the name are utterly reckless and radical. There isn’t anything “conservative” about them.
Yes, I go back to Truman myself. My two favorite presidents were Kennedy and Eisenhower. Though they both did a few major blunders, they both warned of the military-industrial complex. Now JFK, he wanted to disintegrate the CIA, Dissolve the Federal Reserve, de-escalate Vietnam, deny Ben-Gurien of Israel of Nuclear weapons, and of course slept with Mafioso wives.
Could be the reason Obama is afraid to stand up to The Federal Reserve, the CIA, the military, and Israel.
July 4th, 2009 at 10:52 pmDespite the overall tone I was able to find a point of partial agreement, no-bs.
I think we should be investing a lot in new nuclear technologies. There are theoretical models, and a few prototypes, that promise to be much safer than any of the dinosaurs in operation. There’s even some work that suggests we could use existing nuclear waste in the fuel cycle and render the waste much less dangerous.
July 4th, 2009 at 10:56 pmReggie Says:
Gobspy isn’t here for debate and doesn’t respond to civil discourse.
In his short history at Think Progress, he has spammed threads with abuses statements and offers nothing but scorn towards anyone who tries to reason with him.
Could be, but I still like to address specific points they are trying to make, even though they may be trolls or NSA. No sweat off my brow. I like to go deeper, both in Love and in Life.
July 4th, 2009 at 10:57 pmYeah oldgranny, jobs, the environment, the Constitution, my belief in my government. Yeah, Bush truly destroyed everything he touched. But what did we expect from a failed businessman who was bailed out by his rich father and friends all his life/ I know what i expected, a whole lot of nothing.
July 4th, 2009 at 10:57 pm@325, Listen here, I have no problem spending tax money to fix OUR roads, OUR bridges, OUR schools, OUR children.
——
local government can do that.
July 4th, 2009 at 11:03 pmpete Says:
I think we should be investing a lot in new nuclear technologies. There are theoretical models, and a few prototypes, that promise to be much safer than any of the dinosaurs in operation. There’s even some work that suggests we could use existing nuclear waste in the fuel cycle and render the waste much less dangerous.
I wouldn’t fall for this James Lovelock payoff nonsense. He reminds me of Health “Guru” Andrew Weil bad mouthing one of the only cancer alternative treatments that seems to work, wheatgrass therapy. Then he opens his mouth talking of the safety of untested vaccines. Now, Lovelock, Mr Gaia himself, has sold out and is pushing this nuclear nonsense, half-truths, and outright lies. Did you know that there are bacteria that produce massive amounts of hydrogen? Better spending our efforts on increasing the efficiency of real Green Technology.
July 4th, 2009 at 11:04 pmif you libs want to serve pork at least include a bottle of A1.
he he he hor hor hork hork ha hee hee hork he haw ho he haw ha ha.
July 4th, 2009 at 11:05 pmAnyone who gains the Presidency has baggage, Brain From Planet Arous. And mistakes are inevitable. One doesn’t get there without skeletons in the closet and favors owed.
Obama’s relative youth may be a benefit there. His rapid rise has meant that he’s, apparently, not particularly beholden to any one group. If that’s the case? It hampers his ability to impose a course but adds to his credibility and impartiality.
As long as he keeps making real decisions in real time I’ll give him a passing grade.
July 4th, 2009 at 11:07 pmP.D. Says:
Yeah oldgranny, jobs, the environment, the Constitution, my belief in my government. Yeah, Bush truly destroyed everything he touched. But what did we expect from a failed businessman who was bailed out by his rich father and friends all his life/ I know what i expected, a whole lot of nothing.
Bush was a complete an utter tool, moron, war crazed zealot, but was a continuation of the other tools starting with LBJ. That is why The Power Elite propped up Obama for “Progressives” to vote for, turn the tables on us, and everyone still is hoping for Change®.
July 4th, 2009 at 11:08 pm1. Lower the tax rate for business or eliminate it. When business and the business owners pays taxes it’s called double taxation. New business will flourish and this recession will be over in no time.
2. Stop spending money to grow the government and balance the budget. Like the congress did under BJ Clinton.
3. Drill for oil, build oil refineries, create nuclear power plants, and support alternative energy in this country first. DUGH!!!
4. Let the schools compete against each other by letting the parents choose which school they want to send their kids to. Issue vouchers it works.
5. Release your new and increasing grip on business. Let them
breath without government controls.
————
yes! yes! yes! yes! i wuv you! recessions are part of freedom!
July 4th, 2009 at 11:12 pmGOPsby, What makes you think I’m a Liberal? Oh, I believe in Marriage Equality, the environment. But I’m tired of people like you who use the word ‘Liberal’ like it’s a dirty word. If it wasn’t for Liberals, we wouldn’t have unions, environment protections, and fairness. But in honesty, I have to tell you I’m a gun toting Democrat who has a permit to carry. So don’t dismiss everyone here as ‘Liberals’. Quite frankly the people on this site are more openminded than Repugs on any issue.
July 4th, 2009 at 11:12 pmBrian@343, Now, now. You sound bitter. I don’t blame you. So am I.
July 4th, 2009 at 11:14 pmralph the wonder locust
————-
i am sooo sick of your keen observations!
July 4th, 2009 at 11:16 pmthe great GOPsby Says:
@325, Listen here, I have no problem spending tax money to fix OUR roads, OUR bridges, OUR schools, OUR children.
——
local government can do that.
So genius, where is the local government going to get the money to do it? And how is a local government any different than the national government. I thought you hated all government.
July 4th, 2009 at 11:16 pmBrain From Planet Arous Says:
I wouldn’t fall for this James Lovelock payoff nonsense.
Don’t be ridiculous.
I’m talking about a lifelong interest that began when there were just a few reactors in the country. It has always been possible, in theory, to design a fuel cycle so that the end result is a small amount of “hot” waste, that is relatively shot-lived, and a large amount of “cold” waste that’s no more radioactive or toxic than the original ore. In theory, most of the radioactivity is better contained than existing antique reactors and the waste is manageable. I’m not saying it’s cheap or easy or guaranteed but I think it’s a good idea to explore the theory.
For the record. I do not think we should expand nuclear power without those breakthroughs. If the research falls short I would then support an abolition of nuclear power plants.
July 4th, 2009 at 11:17 pmthe great GOPsby Says:
ralph the wonder locust
————-
i am sooo sick of your keen observations!
And we are so sick of your meaningless posts. Apparently you have no life since you spend so much time here posting drivel.
July 4th, 2009 at 11:18 pmpete Says:
As long as he keeps making real decisions in real time I’ll give him a passing grade.
I’ll accept your choice, pete.
I give him a C minus/D plus at this point. He could have stopped foreclosures of homes for 6 months with the stroke of a pen. He didn’t. He caved to surveillance lobbyists, and went against the 4th amendment in the process. He is accelerating Afghanistan and Pakistan, and waiting for his Likud masters to command him on his next Middle East adventures. He lied about the South Ossetia-Georia conflict. He backs CoDex and Monsanto.
Come on, this guy is a Tool.
July 4th, 2009 at 11:18 pmP.D. Says:
GOPsby, What makes you think I’m a Liberal? Oh, I believe in Marriage Equality, the environment. But I’m tired of people like you who use the word ‘Liberal’ like it’s a dirty word. If it wasn’t for Liberals, we wouldn’t have unions, environment protections, and fairness. But in honesty, I have to tell you I’m a gun toting Democrat who has a permit to carry. So don’t dismiss everyone here as ‘Liberals’. Quite frankly the people on this site are more openminded than Repugs on any issue.
—————-
woof!
July 4th, 2009 at 11:18 pmAnd we are so sick of your meaningless posts. Apparently you have no life since you spend so much time here posting drivel.
———
shut your mouth elitist or i’ll shut it for you!
July 4th, 2009 at 11:21 pmWhy the anger Gopsby? Things aren’t going your way last couple of days? Tell us how you really feel.
July 4th, 2009 at 11:22 pmSo genius, where is the local government going to get the money to do it? And how is a local government any different than the national government. I thought you hated all government.
——
of course we support local government. it’s closer to the people! and they can use bonds!
July 4th, 2009 at 11:22 pmWhy the anger Gopsby? Things aren’t going your way last couple of days? Tell us how you really feel.
——
what do you mean? is there a problem?
July 4th, 2009 at 11:24 pmBilbo@348, That’s the siren song of the GOP. “Don’t depend on the evil BIG Government! We are useless and ineffective!” Yet, what about FEMA? And all those other programs that worked efficently until Georgie helped to dismantle them? Sigh.
July 4th, 2009 at 11:24 pmHow about the post office? The military? Interstate roads?
July 4th, 2009 at 11:24 pmGW was responsible for the largest expansion of a govt. agency in the history of the USA.
July 4th, 2009 at 11:26 pmwoof? What the Fu*k are you implying? Hey, you can call me anything, but stupid. But what is ‘woof’? Explain yourself Sir.
July 4th, 2009 at 11:26 pmgeorge bush dismantled them because no matter how effective they are, the rich, who pay 99.999999999999999999 of taxes, deserved their refund checks. pay for the programs with your unemployment cheques!
July 4th, 2009 at 11:27 pmpete Says:
I’m talking about a lifelong interest that began when there were just a few reactors in the country. It has always been possible, in theory, to design a fuel cycle so that the end result is a small amount of “hot” waste, that is relatively shot-lived, and a large amount of “cold” waste that’s no more radioactive or toxic than the original ore. In theory, most of the radioactivity is better contained than existing antique reactors and the waste is manageable. I’m not saying it’s cheap or easy or guaranteed but I think it’s a good idea to explore the theory.
So where does the “waste” get recycled? Sub Atomic levels, black holes, Hyperspace, singularity?
You’re talking theory of nuclear recyling, when that should be going into hydrogen and containment, solar, wind, geothermal. Since we are talking theory, Perhaps as Tesla postulated, real power is what holds separate atoms together, rather than the force holding electrons to the nucleus.
July 4th, 2009 at 11:28 pmwoof? What the Fu*k are you implying? Hey, you can call me anything, but stupid. But what is ‘woof’? Explain yourself Sir.
———-
grrr!!!
July 4th, 2009 at 11:29 pmmy lower tubage has been squeezy all day. have any advice for constipation?
July 4th, 2009 at 11:31 pmGW bundled them gopsby ol boy. He created the largest govt. agency without any direction or scope or real purpose. Just like the most of his entire presidency. The worst president since the invention of presidents.
He’ll carry that with him longer than his AWOL coke snorting days.
July 4th, 2009 at 11:33 pmhellinabucket Says:
GW was responsible for the largest expansion of a govt. agency in the history of the USA.
——-
the increase in military pay, especially for generals, was AWESOME! be a top general stationed in washington with a housing allowance and you can make over 200K a year!
July 4th, 2009 at 11:35 pmgopsby, poor day at the tea party?
July 4th, 2009 at 11:36 pmhellinabucket Says:
GW bundled them gopsby ol boy. He created the largest govt. agency without any direction or scope or real purpose. Just like the most of his entire presidency. The worst president since the invention of presidents.
He’ll carry that with him longer than his AWOL coke snorting days.
July 4th, 2009 at 11:33 pm
————-
are you implying that the greatest president known to man went AWOL from snorting coke? how could you make such a claim? he does his duty!
July 4th, 2009 at 11:36 pmhellinabucket, I honestly believe these people want to go back to the 50s suburbian days. You know, where we live Utopian lives without all those other pesky minorities crowding us. I myself live in one of those suburbs, but it has undergone a amazing transformation in the last 20 years, we are now multicutural. That must drive the GOPers nuts. Doesn’t bother me though. I like my neighborhood, but oldtimers, they despise it.
July 4th, 2009 at 11:36 pmthe great GOPsby Says:
our grandchildren will be struggling to pay down the porkulus bill!!!! it will be the new grapple at the kitchen table!!!! defense stuff and linkage with private industry is a wonderful use of taxpayer dollars! it promotes warmth and community and safety!!!
Our children will be struggling to pay down the 5.5 billion that Bush ran up our national debt and the deficit he made out of a surplus. And not one penny of that money went to doing anything to improve the lives of average Americans. All the defense dollars that supposedly kept us safe did nothing more than make defense contractors like Hallburton obscenely rich. And we are no more safe today than we were the day Bush took office.
I have no problem with President Obama spending our tax dollars to try to jump start our economy again and to try to save American jobs. And while that is happening we are improving our roads, water supplies and infrastructure. To me that’s money well spent.
July 4th, 2009 at 11:38 pmIt’s homeland security gopsby ol boy but I didn’t figure actual intelligence was your strong suit.
200k doesn’t go too far in DC.
July 4th, 2009 at 11:39 pmhellinabucket Says:
gopsby, poor day at the tea party?
————–
oh f you! my stay was brief because i had to prep the fireworks!
again, f you!
July 4th, 2009 at 11:39 pmOops… I meant the 5.5 TRILLION not 5.5 BILLION.
July 4th, 2009 at 11:39 pm@367. LOL! Don’t kick him while he is down. The ‘Tea-baggers Parties’ were a bust. Now they are going for another one, on, get this, Sept 12. Unreal. All the GOP leaders let them down. Not even Newt showed his face(well, not personally. But he sent a tape. WOW)
July 4th, 2009 at 11:40 pmI’m not suggesting that other promising programs should be neglected. I just think that a portion of the massive R&D we need to spend on new energy sources should include cutting edge nuclear technology.
I’m talking about multi-fuel molten salt fast breeder reactors and variations on the general principle. In an ideal system the bulk of the waste (too stable to be of use) would be no more dangerous than the original ore and could be dumped back in the same hole the ore came out of.
The resulting “hot” waste (too unstable to be safely used) would be less in mass than current reactors and would be more unstable which, contradictorily, has a much shorter half life.
July 4th, 2009 at 11:42 pm5.5 billion
——-
thats it? that’s like $100 on each household’s credit card. familys can pay off george bush’s debt in no time! with all that freedom he provided, it paid off big time!
July 4th, 2009 at 11:42 pmgopsby, There was a noticeable percentage drop when you left the tea party. There were reports the air became cleaner as well but I can’t verify that.
July 4th, 2009 at 11:43 pmhellinabucket Says:
It’s homeland security gopsby ol boy but I didn’t figure actual intelligence was your strong suit.
200k doesn’t go too far in DC.
——–
in the burbs it can buy 700k of new home!
homeland security is the trendy new place to work! republicans are good at setting trends for young people to follow, even if the young people don’t vote republican. they catch on though!
July 4th, 2009 at 11:46 pmMy, my. I wouldnt have thought it possible but the trolls are even STUPIDER than before. Add the IQ of BS and goPUNK together and you wouldnt match dryer lint
July 4th, 2009 at 11:47 pmgopsby, There was a noticeable percentage drop when you left the tea party. There were reports the air became cleaner as well but I can’t verify that
———
please put down the nerf gun of insults!
July 4th, 2009 at 11:47 pmEugeneDebs Says:
My, my. I wouldnt have thought it possible but the trolls are even STUPIDER than before. Add the IQ of BS and goPUNK together and you wouldnt match dryer lint
———-
aha, look who it is! i’m rolling up my sleeves and taking you on! i hope tp has enough bandwith!
bring it on!
July 4th, 2009 at 11:49 pmCan we talk about the weather?
July 4th, 2009 at 11:51 pmNo GoPunk. I dont do trolls like you anymore. A majority of the regular liberals thought I was too mean. You are too stupid to hold my interest anyway. I think morons like you are a waste of precious oxygen and if you had an ounce of decency you would just go kill yourself. You are so stupid you have not a snowballs chance in Saudi Arabia of ever making the world a better place in any other way. So no. I wont be engaging you. I am outta here, the liberals that think I am too mean can either put up with you or deal with you in THEIR way. I have been chastised.
July 4th, 2009 at 11:52 pmBesides goPunk. I already mopped the floor with you too many times to count under your other sockpuppet incarnations it is boring
July 4th, 2009 at 11:53 pmsee you at the oregon country faire its our 40th birthday
July 4th, 2009 at 11:53 pmgopsby, when you left the tea party they had to stop playing duck, duck goose and had to play just duck goose.
July 4th, 2009 at 11:54 pmP.D. Says:
Can we talk about the weather?
—-
the weather man likes to say there’s clear skies, 90 degrees for the whole week and that falsely makes people afraid because the weatherman can’t predict storms that pop up during the ultra humid days. so people are misled, then relieved, when a downpour comes in and knocks out the humidity, allowing them to open their windows and cut down on air conditioning bills.
July 4th, 2009 at 11:54 pmTake the bus !
July 4th, 2009 at 11:57 pmgopsby, when you left the tea party they had to stop playing duck, duck goose and had to play just duck goose.
———
people are concerned about their taxes! what’s wrong with that? what is obama’s tax cut anyway? 13 a week for the few under him that have the benefit of working? what is that? what about a recession-era tax debt credit! that will help families who see the irs coming after them for amounts owed when they don’t have a job to pay it back.
July 4th, 2009 at 11:59 pmEugeneDebs Says:
It’s nice to see you back.
July 5th, 2009 at 12:02 amThank you Reggie. I appreciate that.
July 5th, 2009 at 12:04 amReggie Says:
EugeneDebs Says:
It’s nice to see you back.
———-
the pitbulls chat it up.
July 5th, 2009 at 12:06 amquit paying generals 200k a year and we can cut down some of the reason for the high taxes.
July 5th, 2009 at 12:07 amthat’s why I don’t take you serious gopsby, you amuse yourself here and entertain those who like to swat you around like a badminton birdie. But as someone who has a real grasp of the issues and cares to present them in a logical fashion, you aren’t.
July 5th, 2009 at 12:11 amWeakGOB-o-spit.
You are a worthless, pathetic waste time. Just STFU
FOADYPPOS
July 5th, 2009 at 12:19 amthe great GOPsby says: I like the smell of my own farts, why don’t you???
July 5th, 2009 at 12:19 amSays the cowardly weasel who needs to get a life.
July 5th, 2009 at 12:22 amlook, all you have to do it sweep away the dirt and rocks and dead grass and you will find my finer points.
July 5th, 2009 at 12:24 amhellinabucket Says:
quit paying generals 200k a year and we can cut down some of the reason for the high taxes.
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that’s stupid – just cut taxes now! give the lower income people in tax debt the recession credit!
July 5th, 2009 at 12:25 amSays the cowardly weasel who needs to get a life
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you’re here! hahahaha
July 5th, 2009 at 12:28 amWent back and looked at some of gopsby’s “finer points”. Bachman and hating liberals. You aren’t proving your point. In fact you proved mine.
July 5th, 2009 at 12:30 amBilbo Hussein Baggins Says:
All the defense dollars that supposedly kept us safe did nothing more than make defense contractors like Hallburton obscenely rich. And we are no more safe today than we were the day Bush took office.
I have no problem with President Obama spending our tax dollars to try to jump start our economy again and to try to save American jobs. And while that is happening we are improving our roads, water supplies and infrastructure. To me that’s money well spent.
I concur with this. The neocons had no problem spending billions in foreign wars and now they are worried about the deficit. It seems the neocons have difficulty with spending money in our own country, but that is because they can’t steer it to companies like Halliburton and the other sham corporations that their pals own. If they are not getting their cut, then its wasteful spending.
Here is my short history of the Bush presidency. He screwed up the US economy. He screwed up the world economy. He got most Americans to hate him. And he got the rest of the whole world to hate him. Bush accomplished the grand slam which has never been done by an American president.
July 5th, 2009 at 12:31 amWell said both pags2 and Bilbo. Bush used supplemental spending with no accountability, republicans in both the house and senate gleefully went along and now they aren’t in power the refound their republican principles again.
The GOP will remain a regional party (shout out to Palin) for years to come.
July 5th, 2009 at 12:40 amgood night all.
July 5th, 2009 at 12:40 amObama: America was not built by ‘naysayers.’
No, it was built by people revolting against the King of England’s high taxes.
July 5th, 2009 at 1:00 amOf course… the chief objection to those taxes was that they were imposed without representation in Parliament.
It wasn’t simply “high taxes”. We know that “taxes” are a big bad boogeyman to right-wingers, but not everyone is so simple-minded.
July 5th, 2009 at 1:19 amI am looking forward to joining the Democratic party……I hope to, like all my Democratic friends, be completely on the government dole by early September. Free health care, Free food from the state, Free cell phone (here in Washington state anyways), Free hoveround and the list goes on….. It will be great not having to work anymore and driving our free scooters all over town will be one of the greatest things I have ever done. This is what “hope and change” is all about….. having others pay for your stuff. Hell, its about time the rich pay their fair share as determined by Obama. I see rich people all over town…..driving their new cars, new boats, taking vacations all over the world, at least a dozen credit cards in their wallets. These rich people make me sick! The times they are a changen! All hail the Obama!
July 5th, 2009 at 1:37 am“Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15.” – Ronald Reagan
July 5th, 2009 at 2:18 amSlappy the moron is back. Doing the only thing a feebleminded cretin like him is capable of begging us to pity him because he is so stupid and pathetic. Dont fall for it. He is addicted to pity. His life is so pathetic he craves any attention at all and especially our pity. There isnt enough pity in the world to fill that hole in him. No one likse him, no one respects him and no one ever will. He is stupid and pathetic and he always will be. Dont encourage him. He is like a crackwhore except without the dignity and self respect
July 5th, 2009 at 2:55 ammarwick Says:
Yeah that is just like Raygun a moron to the end. I mean you raelly have to be stupid to think something like THAT makes sense.
July 5th, 2009 at 2:57 amYou know what is really disgustingly pitiful SlappyMoron? You actually think you are clever. Anyone with two functioning braincells can see how pathetic you are. You have never once in any post you have ever made even come CLOSE to clever. You are just pathetic nothing more or less than stupid and pathetic
July 5th, 2009 at 3:08 amWell, since all those programs you mention are for the sick, elderly and indigent, which one of those three are you?
July 5th, 2009 at 3:22 amA goverment of, by and for the people means more than the top 1% income earners.
July 5th, 2009 at 5:12 amWill MSNBC allow Ed Schultz to resume his topic on public health care or will it still be on M Jackson? Ed mentioned on his radio show MJ is what MSMBC wanted him to cover even thou he was on a roll talking about what 3/4 of the public wants to hear – public option. I noticed Randi Rhodes also changed her tune and began full converge of MJ … adding humor and slight sarc leading me to believe Premier put the demands on her too.
Is the media looking for anything to over ride the horrific stories of those unable to get health care? If the media was truly into ratings why not sensationalize the horror stories too many out there are going through around the health care issues?
Thom Hartmann frequently mentions how insurance, Big Pharma, defense, media are all invested in one another. Is the media using their power to protect insurance and Big Pharma?
In my opinion, the media has and always will, to the fullest extent they can get away with, protect their investments or build investments by hype over war.
July 5th, 2009 at 5:52 amCan’t we all just get along?
July 5th, 2009 at 7:04 amRhodes belongs to Clear Channel, We will no longer hear the true Randi.
MSNBC is still the corporate media. Though they allow more progressive voices, they still have financial interests in a for-profit healthcare system.
July 5th, 2009 at 7:28 amRazor_Boy Says:
Can’t we all just get along?
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Apparantly not.
July 5th, 2009 at 8:26 amReggie, where do you get your numbers?? What are you talking about, Pres Bush did over spend but it was 850 billion with interest it hit 1.2 trillion. Katrina, Iraq, medicine for the seniors. The bama is spending nearly 8 trillion with all of the up coming budgets. Get your facts straight or stay off you mothers computer.
July 5th, 2009 at 8:40 amObama: America was not built by ‘naysayers.’
July 5th, 2009 at 8:52 am
no-bs is too funny! Talk about your misnomer…
The national debt hit $1 trillion for the first time in history under Reagan. St. Ronnie nearly doubled the defense budget (Star Wars anyone?) and by the time H.W. Bush left office, the national debt stood at $4.5 trillion.
During Clinton’s eight years, the debt went from $4.5 to $5.5 trillion. Did Clinton add to the national debt? NO! During his terms, Clinton paid $1.5 in interest on the debt he inherited, effectively lowering the national debt by $500 billion, and (mistakenly, IMHO) left a $300 billion dollar surplus for the next president.
Bush took that surplus and played Santa, then further cut taxes, primarily on the wealthy, and ran the debt up to nearly $11 trillion by the time he left office. That’s right, under Republican rule over the last 30 years, the debt increased from under $1 trillion to $11 trillion, and Clinton, the only Democrat in the White House during that time, is the only one to responsibly pay down the debt, balance the budget and leave a surplus.
Look for yourself at treasurydirect.gov. And stay off your mommy’s computer until you get your facts straight.
PEACE
July 5th, 2009 at 9:42 amGood job spencers mom, these bs repugs don’t even have a brain stem.
July 5th, 2009 at 9:49 amIs President Obama willing to stand up to the status quo in DC? Well he has continued the Bush bail outs, he was Bush like when he blocked releasing the names of visitors at the White House. He has refused to release documents regarding the outing of a CIA agent by the Bush administration. As a senator he voted for the Bush FISA bill. He has continued the Bush wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. He has protected the Bush administration from being investigated and prosecuted for war crimes, torture, lying America into war. He continues to protect the interests of the banks, credit card companies and Wall Street. It doesn’t matter which party is in charge anymore, they are all owned by the banks, Wall Street and corporations. The democrats are just aren’t as obvious as the republicans are.
July 5th, 2009 at 10:02 amthe great GOPsby Says:
look, all you have to do it sweep away the dirt and rocks and dead grass and you will find my finer points.
July 5th, 2009 at 10:09 am————————————————————–
The ones on the top of your head???
no-bs Says:
Hey bama you are so full of BS. Do you really think people with brains cannot see through your agenda? In your first line you say we are fighting two wars, one on the economy and one on spiraling health care, dependency on foreign oil and inadequate schools. Anybody with a brain can solve these problems and you know it.
Really? Then how come George Bush wasn’t able to solve them on his watch (you know, where IT all STARTED)? And why did George Bush say one day, “I’ll let future presidents handle it”? Anyone with a REAL FUNCTIONING BRAIN knows that all messes President Obama is tackling ALL HAPPENED UNDER THE WATCH OF GEORGE BUSH…..WHO DID NOTHING!
July 5th, 2009 at 10:19 amKay – because, as “little shop of horrors” sarah palin has shown us – QUITTING IS WINNING!!!!!
Its what all the repug pundits and trolls are proclaiming! Little billy kristol even goes so far as to call it a “shrewed move” and that it might actually catapult her into the white house!
That’s some pretty good doublespeak, even by repug standards – ABANDON THE ONLY REAL POLITICAL RESPONSIBILITIES YOU HAVE EVER HAD IS SUCCESSFULLY FULFILLING THEM!
And it makes her an even “better” candidate for the White House!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
“Losing is WINNING” and “ONLY WINNERS QUIT!!!!!!!”
And doing over a long holiday weekend that celebrates the tenacious battles that others have made to create our nation – SHEER BRILLIANCE!!!!!!!
I only wish it was dur chimpfuhrer that “catapulted the propaganda” by, halfway through his first term, demonstrating “quitting is for WINNERS”!
July 5th, 2009 at 10:55 amThank you very nice Online Müzik Dinle Müzik Dinle Türkü Dinleme sitemize bekleriz, Ayrica bu Muzik Dinleme ve Türkü Dinleme Kürtce mp3 Sitemizede Bekleriz.
July 5th, 2009 at 11:07 amAhhhh yes, QUITTING IS WINNING AND ONLY REAL QUITTERS ARE THE LOSERS! Thanks Another Joe for pointing this out to me. LOL Yep, when you or I quit doing something, we are losers….ahhhh but when Sarah says (paraphrasing but not far off), “Quitters are losers, so therefore today I’m announcing that I’m quitting the governorship!”…..she’s the NEW VOICE FOR THE REPUBLICAN PARTY!
July 5th, 2009 at 11:23 amThe GOP’s NEW MANTRA:
July 5th, 2009 at 11:25 amWar is peace,
Freedom is slavery,
Ignorance is strength,
Quitting is winning!
LMAO! So true Kay!
July 5th, 2009 at 11:42 amSlappyBastinado Says:
I am looking forward to joining the Democratic party……I hope to, like all my Democratic friends, be completely on the government dole by early September. Free health care, Free food from the state, Free cell phone (here in Washington state anyways), Free hoveround and the list goes on…..All hail the Obama!
The problem with posts such as this, is that they are Republican talking points or mantras. They lack any substance or logic that could be considered discourse. These mantras are perfect for people who want other people to tell them what their opinion should be. In fact, these mantras are geared toward the people to recite without any forethought. The Republicans think that they can abdicate their responsibility for the Bush administration be refusing to talk about the massive failure of the last 8 years. However, the economic failures as well as the Iraq are seared in the minds of the public because they deal with these issues every day. They are not going to forget either in the near future. Simply stated, the Republicans need to rethink their positions and present an intelligible vision of America or face minority status for an extended period.
July 5th, 2009 at 11:47 ampags2 says:
That’s the way the GNOP likes it. Everyone on the same page, spouting the same thing, no individualism or original thought allowed.
That is the beauty, and the frustration, of being a Democrat!
PEACE
July 5th, 2009 at 12:30 pmThis is My President, Of whom I am Well Pleased.
July 5th, 2009 at 2:55 pmRodeskawler Says:
Rhodes belongs to Clear Channel, We will no longer hear the true Randi.
MSNBC is still the corporate media. Though they allow more progressive voices, they still have financial interests in a for-profit healthcare system.
July 5th, 2009 at 7:28 a
This along with the fact Congress is bought off by these corporate interests should take front and center on stage…. the real elephant in the room. Instead, we see the same dance over and over…
If the media allowed more horror stories of our immoral health care system, not just the blurps we get during a televised meeting with Obama, their ratings would soar and they must know it. I have also noticed there is not much news covering Congress’s votes… the votes special interest paid for.
July 5th, 2009 at 4:50 pmpags2 Says
What you say is obviously true. The thing is SlappyMoron is STUPID. He knows he is too stupid to have an actual discussion so he doesnt try. He isnt here to discuss anything. He is the quintessential punkass troll
July 5th, 2009 at 5:40 pmYou can’t fight posters like Slappy with name calling or outrage. Simple logic that is carefully laid out for everyone to read is the best tactic. Mantras fail to address the logic and expose the poster as being incapable of properly responding.
July 5th, 2009 at 5:47 pmpags2 Says:
I respect your opinion but completely disagree. He isnt going to respond to any logic. He doesnt care about logic and he is going to continue to call us names and be a jerk no matter WHAT you do. I spent a couple of years doing exactly what you say and watched the rightwingnuts get ruder and nastier and use our highroad approack to paint us as being weak. I think our ideas are better and we can beat them in the debate halls which is why they take the discussions into the gutter. In my opinion, disagree if you choose, I am going to follow them into the gutter and show we can beat them there too. People who come here ONLY to annoy and pick at us dont deserve civility and respect. They deserve to get the contempt they heap on us piled back on them. I can see that you see it differently that is all well and good. Good luck. Maybe in the end you are right.
July 5th, 2009 at 5:53 pmJust as the media has climbed aboard on the Republican message of “we’re trying to do too much” Obama comes up with the soaring rhetoric to put them back in their place.
July 5th, 2009 at 6:33 pmI failed to mention the significance, this is what caused the budget surplus along with the budgets CONGRESS drafted (controlled by Republicans) that President Clinton wisely signed.
July 6th, 2009 at 4:52 amReagan had a Senate majority for 6 of his 8 years, however, he never had a majority in the House (no filibuster power there) and Bush senior had dem control in both bodies of Congress his entire term. So Dems were really in charge of fiscal matters in those years. Suggest that you read up on the differing roles of the Legislative branch and the Executive branch.
July 6th, 2009 at 5:01 amWell, I’ll admit to being a naysayer because the issue is not building America it is maintaining it. We are living at the bottom of a Republican pot hole; we need to repair our infrastructure before any more military adventures or wild-eyed technological dead ends. Fix what works first. There are more jobs in maintenance than moon walks.
July 6th, 2009 at 5:56 amAgreed, Had Enough.
An estimated 12,000 Americans die each year due to lack of healthcare access in the US. This is 4 times as many that died on 9/11 each year, but we decided to squander over a trillion on crude oil confiscation instead of investing to combat the true domestic terrorism of our age, for-profit healthcare.
MSNBC frequently displays 5 minute pharmaceutical commercials even during Obermann and Maddow. This could translate in a lot of lost revenue if MSNBC actually did the reporting they should be doing.
July 6th, 2009 at 7:45 ampags may have something…..I will not name call or argue and that alone makes people like debbi mad. BUT……have you visited your local Walmart lately, your local Winco where there are hundreds of people who have eaten so much that their legs will no longer carry them from their cars to the store so the store has a buggy to pick them up at their car when the call the store and then transfer their humongous bodies to electric carts so they can buy another 100 lbs of groceries????????????????? Then pay for it all with a state food card??????????????????????? And they are all over the store!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Whats wrong with this?????????????
July 6th, 2009 at 1:41 pmAnd you want government health care!!!!!!!! Free health care like free food makes people sicker!!!!!!!
45,000 die each year on the nations highways….and your point is???????
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July 6th, 2009 at 7:17 pm