Arizona state senator argues for uranium mining by claiming the Earth is ‘6,000 years’ old.
By on Jul 8th, 2009 at 12:14 pm
Arizona state senator argues for uranium mining by claiming the Earth is ‘6,000 years’ old.
On June 25, the Arizona Senate’s Retirement and Rural Development Committee discussed the prospects for uranium mining in the state. During the hearing, State Senator Sylvia Allen (R), the vice chairman of the committee, argued in favor of mining by saying that the earth “has been here 6,000 years, long before anybody had environmental laws, and somehow it hasn’t been done away with.” “We need to get the uranium here in Arizona, so this state can get the money from it,” argued Allen. Watch it:
Phil Plait of BadAstronomy notes that the irony of Allen’s claim “is that she’s talking about uranium mining, and it’s through the radioactive decay of uranium that we know the Earth is billions of years old.”
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When people are as ignorant as Allen, why does anyone listen to them? Their comments are so easily debunked, & they still remain just as ignorant.
July 8th, 2009 at 12:17 pmJust how in the Hell do these flat-earther Bible thumpers ever get elected into positions of responsibility?
$*#)_@#^^^#(!!!! backward freaks!
July 8th, 2009 at 12:19 pmProof again-you can’t fix stupid.
July 8th, 2009 at 12:20 pmEspecially if you’re an arrogant right-winger with no concept of science,especially geology.
tony and lido
I saw this on C&L earlier, alot of great comments. It really is scary that people in office believe this crap. I like to think of ren and stimpy when I see something like this. You IIIIIIIIdiot.
July 8th, 2009 at 12:20 pmI want to sell this woman my piece of toast bearing the face of Jesus.
July 8th, 2009 at 12:21 pmI have thought as of late there have been too many puff pieces in the lineup at TP but this is priceless .This lady is a dinosaur !
July 8th, 2009 at 12:22 pmGod HAS returned to Earth ! He fell off of his cloud laughing .
Hilarious .
The senator’s comments are mighty confusing. Oh, not because they make me question the age of the Earth.
Rather, I am confused because I thought that dinosaurs had disappeared from its surface ages ago. After watching this video clip, I’m not so sure about that anymore.
July 8th, 2009 at 12:23 pmAnd what’s really the difference between dinosaurs like this lady and dinosaurs like Imhofe?
July 8th, 2009 at 12:24 pmDuring the hearing, State Senator Sylvia Allen (R), the vice chairman of the committee, argued in favor of mining by saying that the earth “has been here 6,000 years, long before anybody had environmental laws, and somehow it hasn’t been done away with.”
So not only is the Earth 6,000 years old, but humans have been mining uranium all that time? Were all our nuclear reactors destroyed in The Flood?
July 8th, 2009 at 12:24 pmI used to believe the scientists who said the earth was billions of years old. Now, I have to believe this woman. I mean, look at her! She looks to be 6,000 years old herself and, therefore, she was born at the same time as the earth and the two of them grew up together.
July 8th, 2009 at 12:25 pmZooey says:
You really could sell these Neanderthals a turd with a image of Moses on it.
July 8th, 2009 at 12:26 pmTHEY’RE EVEN HYPOCRITICAL ABOUT BEING DUMBED-DOWN!
People with the intellectual depth, honesty and consistency of a lobotomized schizophrenic are the rigidly irrational base of today’s GOP. These are the self-deluding creationists who proclaim that their “faith” is factual and that science is “false”. However, they are conveniently selective about which “sciences” the do and do not accept. They give birth in hospitals instead of mangers, they consume drugs and use cosmetics, they have their children vaccinated, they drink purified water and consume genetically modified foods, their homes are electrified, heated and air conditioned, they drive automobiles instead of horse drawn carts and they revere the scientific discoveries and technological advancements that created AK47s, stealth technology and drone bombers, but evidently reject the scientific discoveries and technological advancement that created the Hubble Telescope images.
It isn’t religious faith that causes these profoundly flawed puppets to “believe” the earth is only 6 million years old anymore than it was “faith” that created the “believers” who followed Jim Jones or David Koresh.
July 8th, 2009 at 12:26 pmLet’s get rid of murder laws, while we’re at it. According to the same timeline, it’s been almost 6,000 years since Cain killed Abel and we still haven’t gotten rid of murder.
/snark off
July 8th, 2009 at 12:28 pmOne of the requirements of holding a seat in government should be a basic understanding of reality.
Religious nut jobs have no place in government…it proves that they cannot use reason or come to any kind logical conclusion to anything.
July 8th, 2009 at 12:30 pmUncle Ho Says:
You really could sell these Neanderthals a turd with a image of Moses on it.
July 8th, 2009 at 12:26 pm
We should commission someone to work one up. ;)
July 8th, 2009 at 12:31 pm…how in the hell does Arizona elect a Young Earther? You’d expect that crap coming from Oklahoma (or Louisiana. or Nebraska. you get my point)…but Arizona is known more for the stuck up, noveau-riche, callous kinda fiscal conservatism, not the Bible-thumping, young earther kinda social conservatism.
Shameful. Just shameful.
July 8th, 2009 at 12:32 pmHey Zooey, you should put that piece of toast on E-bay there are alot of crazy wingnut religious people out there. You stand a good chance of making some decent money.
July 8th, 2009 at 12:32 pmWasn’t 6,000 years ago about when Goldman-Sachs started manipulating the markets?
July 8th, 2009 at 12:32 pmNowhere in the bible does it say the earth is 6000 years old
July 8th, 2009 at 12:33 pmZooey Says:
I want to sell this woman my piece of toast bearing the face of Jesus.
– - Strike while the iron is hot and tell people it’s Michael Jackson. Who’s to argue?
July 8th, 2009 at 12:34 pmCome on now, don’t be so harsh. Closed-minded idiots need representation, too.
July 8th, 2009 at 12:34 pm…
scientific proof provided by
carl reiner and mel brooks.
:)
July 8th, 2009 at 12:35 pmsscncturn64 Says:
Hey Zooey, you should put that piece of toast on E-bay there are alot of crazy wingnut religious people out there. You stand a good chance of making some decent money.
July 8th, 2009 at 12:32 pm
Oops. I was pretty hungry this morning…
July 8th, 2009 at 12:35 pmThe Young Republican Says:
Nowhere in the bible does it say the earth is 6000 years old
Neither does it mention stem cell research. Hasn’t stopped them from trying to ban it.
July 8th, 2009 at 12:36 pmYoung Repiggie will be forced to recant his heresy, because in order to be a repiggie these days, one has to buy all the holy roller crap and lies uncritically.
By the way, why isn’t Young Repiggie serving in the military in Afghanistan?
July 8th, 2009 at 12:36 pmA big AMEN to what osage said. It’s also apparent that one bit of science Ms. Allen embraces is the chemistry involved in products that do strange things to one’s hair.
July 8th, 2009 at 12:39 pmALLEN: …the earth “has been here 6,000 years, long before anybody had environmental laws, and somehow it hasn’t been done away with.”
Sylvia, you stupid twit, the problem is that we are slowly destroying our ability to survive on Earth. The Earth will survive quite nicely without US.
July 8th, 2009 at 12:43 pmevangenital Says:
By the way, why isn’t Young Repiggie serving in the military in Afghanistan?
Too easy, because he is a “Chickenhawk”, gorsh, duh!!!
July 8th, 2009 at 12:43 pmAre you saying a Republican is wrong about something? Somebody must have hijacked The Young Republican’s name.
July 8th, 2009 at 12:44 pmThe dumbing down of America. Now Senator Allen is yet another example of why the US is not only ranked low in education but also why our Government has idiots representing citizens. Just think of how many Americans will believe Allen only because she is a Senator. People have to start picking the smartest and brightest in their States and stop election the dumb one’s.
July 8th, 2009 at 12:46 pmThe Young Republican Says:
——————————————————————————–
Nowhere in the bible does it say the earth is 6000 years old
–
July 8th, 2009 at 12:47 pmWhy do you think people like this freak believe this to be the age? Where do you think their misperception arises from?
This is what you get when you prescribe to the notion that education and intelligence is somehow “elitist”. Just because some of us went to college instead of the 13th, 14th, 15th, 16th grade, we are the ignorant ones, and the real scary part of this is that it works.
We as a country are becoming, (and I dare say it but I must), more stupid by the hour, just look at the following Mrs. Palin has and you need no further proof.
This lady should go check with the Department of History, she might learn something, but she wont believe it, and to think people like this are actually leaders in our country.
Intelligence is dying, and noone seems to care.
RIP
July 8th, 2009 at 12:47 pmSGT Stephen R. Sherman
C CO 1-5 In (STRYKER)
KIA 3 Feb 2005
Mosul, Iraq
This dipshit is from Snowflake, AZ, which is about 90% Mormon. She comes by this idiocy honestly.
I mean really, if you are going to swallow the bullshit about some carnie finding gold tablets and hiding them under his bed, believing the earth is 6,000 years old is a piece of cake.
July 8th, 2009 at 12:48 pmand senator allen should know…the old gal appears to be 6,000 years old herself
July 8th, 2009 at 12:51 pmThe repiggies celebrate the dumbing down of America. It is so easy to hoodwink the poorly educated and the stupid.
Within the next decade, Europe and the Far East will leave the U.S. behind in the dust with so many new patent applications for technology and stem cell research.
In the meantime, a whole political party wants Adam and Eve taught in science classes.
The repiggies are doing what the Soviet Union failed to do. They are destroying this nation.
By the way, check out a film called IDIOCRACY. It isn’t a masterpiece, but it certainly is food for thought concerning the future of our society.
July 8th, 2009 at 12:51 pmJim Inhofe told me that Fred Flintstone worked at the uranium mine in Bedrock, Arizona 6000 years ago. There were no environmental laws then, were there? And we still enjoy the same lifestyle as Fred and Wilma!
Yabba-Dabba-Doo.
July 8th, 2009 at 12:52 pmSomewhere along the way Christians reached the conclusion that 1 god day =1000 earth days. God created the earth in 6 days hence the 6000 year.
If you try argue with them how that explains dinosaurs and many other things much older than 6000 years some now say it is now 6million years or 60million or how ever many extra zeros it takes to justify their unshakeable beliefs.
July 8th, 2009 at 12:53 pmpeople who do not believe in reality should not have decision making power over any decision that affects other people
rational thought is the enemy of religion. rise up rational people and proudly declare your freedom from ancient myths and superstitions
July 8th, 2009 at 12:53 pmThe Young Republican Says:
Nowhere in the bible does it say the earth is 6000 years old
– - Nor does it mention the words, gay, lesbian, homosexual or transgender, among others.
July 8th, 2009 at 12:57 pmbut but but, we have to respect her beliefs, no matter how fantastical and silly
/snark
July 8th, 2009 at 12:58 pmThanks eyeswideopen1
July 8th, 2009 at 1:00 pmI was hoping The Young Republican might want to discuss something this day…
Why isn’t Young Repiggie in Afghanistan?
Why can’t we get a concise, clear answer from this right-winger?
July 8th, 2009 at 1:01 pmdbadass Says:
The Young Republican Says:
——————————————————————————–
Nowhere in the bible does it say the earth is 6000 years old
–
Why do you think people like this freak believe this to be the age? Where do you think their misperception arises from?
Here’s a very thorough and scholarly analysis of the age of Earth which concludes:
His argument, essentially, is that if the Bible is the Word of God, then the Earth must be thousands of years old, not millions or billions. And this makes sense to him.
July 8th, 2009 at 1:02 pmeyeswideopen1 Says:
Somewhere along the way Christians reached the conclusion that 1 god day =1000 earth days. God created the earth in 6 days hence the 6000 year.
Check out the article I linked to above. God days have nothing to do with it; according to this “scholar”, the OT contains a very clear and literal chronology going back to the Creation.
No kidding.
July 8th, 2009 at 1:04 pmYes I am diagreeing with the conservatives that believe the earth is only 6000 years old. Nowhere in the bible does it say the earth is that old. The people who think that are simply interperting the bible wrong which is common.
July 8th, 2009 at 1:05 pmThe Young Republican Says:
Yes I am diagreeing with the conservatives that believe the earth is only 6000 years old. Nowhere in the bible does it say the earth is that old. The people who think that are simply interperting the bible wrong which is common.
Bzzzt. Wrong.
They are not “interpreting” the Bible but claim that it is literal truth. If you accept that, then you pretty much have to accept the 6,000 year age. Once you start “interpreting” the Bible, you’ve admitted it’s not really the Word of God.
July 8th, 2009 at 1:08 pmYou get what you vote for and it does not look good for the people of Arizona.
July 8th, 2009 at 1:11 pmWhy isn’t Young Repiggie serving in the military in Afghanistan, instead of indulging in Biblical criticism?
July 8th, 2009 at 1:11 pmThe Young Republican Says:
“Nowhere in the bible does it say the earth is 6000 years old”
And so what if it did? It could be printed at the bottom of every page and it would still be wrong.
July 8th, 2009 at 1:12 pmreligion poisons the mind
July 8th, 2009 at 1:13 pmWell, gum, maybe our Young Republican friend is one o’ them “I’ve got mine; screw you” libertarian Republicans rather than the “God is a Republican” Christianist types?
July 8th, 2009 at 1:14 pmAgreed. If the Bible is not the literal truth, but open to interpretation, it is the same as any other self help book in the Fuzzy Thinking aisle.
I would rather pick a self help book that doesn’t require me to kill my neighbor for working on Sunday, but hey, to each his own. Right?
July 8th, 2009 at 1:14 pmevangenital Says:
“By the way, why isn’t Young Repiggie serving in the military in Afghanistan?”
The very thought of war gives Young Repiggie a hard-on. However the thought of actually being shot at makes him pee in his pants.
July 8th, 2009 at 1:15 pmArizona is very religious and very republican.
July 8th, 2009 at 1:19 pmShe’s not saying the whole truth or any truth for that matter.
This about exploiting the indigineous people again.
They want start mining reservations and areas near the Grand Canyon.
That “worthless real estate” the natives were forcibly relocated to is rich in uranium.
And, she has the right mindset to meet her agenda because science and facts are only getting in her way.
Such a good neocon!
This women could pass herself off as Sen. Inhofe’s long lost sister. I believe she was “captured by Martians” some 60 years ago from her native Oklahoma and deposited in Arizona after having her brain thoroughly scrubbed by Martian clowns disguised as Republicans. I’m not positive about this but I remember reading it in the Book of Mormon, Vol. III Subchapter S Corp. Published by the Colorado School of Mines, Mimes or Whatever Works. Professor Nutbag of the esteemed Geology Dept. at the school was the leading researcher and he was funded by the Hatch School of Music and Voices in My Head.
July 8th, 2009 at 1:20 pmThe rocks at the bottom of the inner gorge of the Grand Canyon are the oldest rocks exposed on the planet, several billion years old, roughly half the age of the earth itself. The White Tank mountains, visible from the Arizona state capitol (on a clear non-smoggy day) are composed of rocks that are approximately 1.3 billion years old, or about a tenth the age of the known universe.
The majority of Arizona’s state senators and representatives — and the state’s current governor, Jan Brewer — are obviously composed of rocks that average about fifty years of age, give or take a couple of years here and there.
Man, am I GLAD that I moved out of that intellectual backwater! Lived there forty years and watched the downhill slide most of that time. Of course, what to expect from an electorate that continues to saddle themselves AND the nation with such imbecilic characters as McCain and Kyl? (Anyone wonder why Napolitano left at first opportunity? Three guesses, the first two don’t count).
July 8th, 2009 at 1:21 pmSpeaking of batsh¡t crazy:
Maybe the “change” Obama meant was supposed to ‘change’ 2009 into 1984.
July 8th, 2009 at 1:23 pmLet’s start by digging up your yard first.
July 8th, 2009 at 1:28 pmThen we can dig up Snowflake.
When we are done there we can dig up Phoenix…
Ummm, scratch that Phoenix always looks like its been dug up
Bertrand Russell clarified the details:
“The date of the creation of the world (according to the orthodox view) can be inferred from the genealogies in Genesis, which tell how old each patriarch was when his oldest son was born. Some margin of controversy was permissible, owing to certain ambiguities and to differences between the Septuagint and the Hebrew text; but in the end Protestant Christendom generally accepted the date 4004 B.C., fixed by Archbishop Usher. Dr. Lightfoot, Vice-Chancellor of the University of Cambridge, who accepted this date for the Creation, thought that a careful study of Genesis made even greater precision possible; the creation of man, according to him, took place at 9.00 A.M. on October 23rd. This, however, has never been an article of faith; you might believe, without risk of heresy, that Adam and Eve came into existence on October 16th or October 30th, provided your reasons were derived from Genesis. The day of the week was, of course, known to have been Friday, since God rested on the Saturday.” (R.S.p51/2)
Hope that’s of some help to the Arizona State Nitwitia. Certainly can’t hurt, right?
July 8th, 2009 at 1:29 pmThere are also those inconvenient statements in the old testament saying the sun revolves around the earth and that it is ok to beat your wife and sell your daughter into slavery. Not sure how ‘fuzzy thinking’ can find away around that but whatever. If you choose to ‘believe’ you have already lost the plot.
July 8th, 2009 at 1:32 pmObama is just george bush after an intensive course in elocution…
There is no excuse. None.
July 8th, 2009 at 1:36 pmFrugalchariot:
Indeed. That’s how Darwin attempted to measure Earth’s age in order to give support to its work, by calculating how much time does the water take to erode the stone in order to form the Great Canyon. The result was several hundred million years.
On the other hand, Lord Kelvin (William Thomson) a very profound religious person and a brilliant man was trying at all cost to refute Darwin’s theory for religious reasons. So he was trying to calculate Earth’s age by several methods. One was to calculate how much time would have taken the earth to cool down from an initial super hot temperature. The other one was to calculate the Sun’s age by reasoning how much time the Sun has been firing up if the energy is produced by its immense gravity. Well, he calculated some millions years. Kelvin was wrong.
Now, about this thread. Hahaha. What a laugh these people are.
July 8th, 2009 at 1:38 pmSarah Palin, meet your running mate.
July 8th, 2009 at 1:45 pmWOW – how does one make so many errors:
1) Her argument would actually appear stronger had she said the earth has been here billions of years and it still exists.
2) As noted, she is talking about the benefits of science / technology and radioactivity – yet she flies in the face of all of them by her statements.
3) No one will know the mines were even there after they are gone. Yeah! Right! Tell that to the coal mining areas in Appalachia. Or tell that to the folks poisoned my mine tailings throught the west.
July 8th, 2009 at 1:51 pmgummble-bee-itch Says:
His argument, essentially, is that if the Bible is the Word of God, then the Earth must be thousands of years old, not millions or billions. And this makes sense to him.
July 8th, 2009 at 1:02 pm
___________
And this is exactly the logic underlying nearly everything in the conservative worldview. They already “know” their conclusion is right, be it about economic policy or foreign affairs or climate change or evolution. All they need to do is find and/or convolute the facts that support the conclusion.
It’s a much easier method than all that “science” and “reason” stuff.
July 8th, 2009 at 1:52 pmOh. My. God.
PLEASE…tell me that moronic homeskooled whackadoodle was joking!!!!
July 8th, 2009 at 1:54 pmYep, it figures, she’s from Snowflake, a Mormon town near the White Mountains. The town was named not after a winter scene, but after a Mr. Snow and a Mr. Flake, Mormon pioneers in the area. Jeff Flake (R) is from there also, and a U.S. Congressman.
Palin and Mitt and Huckabee could all be happy in Snowflake, what with pervasive/persuasive ignorance being its hallmark. Mitt especially, of course.
Forty-five years ago, in college, my roomie — a guy with roots in both Arizona and Alaska, believe it or not — liked to ponder the nights away trying to figure out the most practical means of ridding the world of religion. He decided that before that could happen, he’d have to figure out a way to get rid of “faith.” He was right. Not sure that ‘faith’ can be educated out, but it would surely be worth a try. Maybe someday.
July 8th, 2009 at 1:57 pmA perfect for Letterman.
July 8th, 2009 at 1:58 pmHey, Sylvia – tell us: which day did God create the FOSSILS??
July 8th, 2009 at 1:58 pmThe argument given by creationists is that fossils were put there by God to fool us, to keep us from thinking we’re so smart. The Biblical chronology goes to the beginning of the “begats” in the book of Numbers. I have a friend who has become a creationist after 16 years of education, saying now that “Everything I Knew was Wrong”, the Bible is the only truth, everything is prophesied there if you know where to look. There are no contradictions in the Bible if you read it right.
July 8th, 2009 at 1:59 pmThe new Testament is where it’s at, the Old Testament has been superseded, except when using Genesis as science, and narrow Leviticus selections for sexual morality rules. Revelations is expected for future rapture of the truly faithful.
Why doesn’t somebody just ask Johnny McCain? He was there wasn’t he?
July 8th, 2009 at 2:04 pmUm, I don’t think these people should be allowed control over anything dangerous like uranium. Or steak knives.
.
Zooey Says:
I want to sell this woman my piece of toast bearing the face of Jesus.
Heck, let’s invent a Jesus-face toaster. We’ll make millions. Hmm… “the toaster of Turin…”
.
The Young Republican Says:
Nowhere in the bible does it say the earth is 6000 years old
Quite correct. I believe that a minister in the 1800’s made that guess by multplying “begats” by average biblical ages and so forth. But if you go by that and assume there are no geneological gaps whatsoever, it still amounts to a wild shot in the dark.
July 8th, 2009 at 2:07 pmdont have to know anything about radiation, carbon dating, or nuclear decay to make laws pertaining to such concepts.
just repeat what your mining lobbyists tell you to the public to look smart.
proof they don’t give a crap about education funding.
July 8th, 2009 at 2:16 pmJust another Republican showing off her 3rd grade science education. Alas, she no doubt earned a D- in 3rd grade science.
July 8th, 2009 at 2:24 pmElBruce Says:
Heck, let’s invent a Jesus-face toaster. We’ll make millions. Hmm… “the toaster of Turin…”
July 8th, 2009 at 2:07 pm
It’s already been done:
July 8th, 2009 at 2:32 pmhttp://www.thefind.com/appliances/info-holy-toast-bread
Cal Malenky Says: I have a friend who has become a creationist after 16 years of education, saying now that “Everything I Knew was Wrong”, the Bible is the only truth, everything is prophesied there if you know where to look. There are no contradictions in the Bible if you read it right.
How sad. The problem is not so much in individual belief but when ‘it’ becomes collective, eventually be used to hammer reality into the ground while, at the same time, striving to raise mythology to the point where it might one day become dominant — imposing limits on rational thought and worse, limits on freedom of thought, of action, of even the imagination and the science which springs forth therefrom.
In ancient Polynesia, their mythology proposed that once all the earth was imprisoned beneath a shroud of darkness held in place by The Great Octopus, Tumu-rai-fenua, who held the sky close to the earth with his tentacles in a way which allowed no light in. Tangaroa, the god of the sea, wanted there to be light so life could prosper, but couldn’t convince the octopus to let go. Eventually, Rua-tupua-nui, a creation of Tangaroa, managed to kill the octopus and, in response to that grand event, Tangaroa’s brother Tane, the god of the sky, agreed to release the hold of the octopus and free the sky from the earth, to let in the light. And then Tane laid reeds bearing red blossoms on the sea to forever hold up the sky. We still see them every day, both at sunrise and at sunset.
Makes as much sense as anything in the Bible, actually.
The point is, mythology is mythology is mythology; until someone can PROVE without a shadow of doubt that one mythology represents truth and the others are shams, I see them all, each and every one, as pure myth. I say, take from whichever one the beauty, leave the crap behind — which, in biblical context, eliminates the vast majority of Itself.
July 8th, 2009 at 2:39 pmWe need to get the uranium here in Arizona, so this state can get the money from it,” argued Allen.
And when the piles of radioactive tailings contaminates the groundwater, this pig will have her hand out for superfund cleanup money, which we’ll all be paying for.
And predictably:
hanshiro the antlion Says:
——————————————————————————–
Obama is just george bush after an intensive course in elocution…
There is no excuse. None.
Since Obama and the democrats say the single-payer option for healthcare is still on the table, it was only a matter of time before hanshiro trotted out a different “Obama is George Bush” meme.
July 8th, 2009 at 2:42 pmBesides, as everyone knows, the Earth is approximately 15 million years old. It was created by the Magratheans under contract to the mice. What’s so hard to believe about that?
July 8th, 2009 at 2:45 pmchiroptera toasterhead Says:
Besides, as everyone knows, the Earth is approximately 15 million years old. It was created by the Magratheans under contract to the mice.
I thought is was Xenu (COS).
July 8th, 2009 at 3:28 pmTired Of Fighting Says:
——————————————————————————–
This is what you get when you prescribe to the notion that education and intelligence is somehow “elitist”. Just because some of us went to college instead of the 13th, 14th, 15th, 16th grade, we are the ignorant ones, and the real scary part of this is that it works.
We as a country are becoming, (and I dare say it but I must), more stupid by the hour, just look at the following Mrs. Palin has and you need no further proof.
This lady should go check with the Department of History, she might learn something, but she wont believe it, and to think people like this are actually leaders in our country.
Intelligence is dying, and noone seems to care.
______________________________________________________________
I’ll back you up on that 100%. I retired in May of this year after teaching for 33 years. One of the main reasons I retired was an increasing acceptance of mediocrity on the part of my students.
Some examples:
1. Q. Work hard? A. No way. Not when cheating is so accepted.
2. Q. Do you study? A. What’s that? I had to work last night so I can have $ for my car payment.
3. Q. Are your parents coming to open house? A. No, why?
4. Q. Will you come in for tutoring after school? A. No, I have something else to do.
5. Q. You are failing this class. A. So what? I’ll just take it in summer school.
6. Q. Please stop talking and pay attention. A. (Hears teacher, but keeps talking)
7. Q. If you plan to go to college, you need to develop good study habits in high school. A. I’ll worry about that when I get there.
There is this something for nothing attitude, and the belief that they will never need to use anything they learn in high school. A lot of them figure that since their parents didn’t graduate hs and seem to be doing ok that they can do the same thing.
July 8th, 2009 at 3:30 pmAnd the funny thing is that many of the parents have little/no control over their kids. And some of them are actually afraid to tell their kids NO to any thing they ask for/want.
ElBruce Says:
Um, I don’t think these people should be allowed control over anything dangerous like uranium. Or steak knives.
I don’t think they should be allowed control over anything dangerous like soup spoons…
July 8th, 2009 at 3:30 pmShouldn’t she be night-clerking a “motel no-tell” somewhere outside Bisbee??
July 8th, 2009 at 3:35 pmHonestly, we let these people vote on legislation? Come on babe, 6000 YEARS? Try more like 13 million years. Jesus! Has any of these Politicians gone to school?
July 8th, 2009 at 3:43 pmeyeswideopen1 Says:
Somewhere along the way Christians reached the conclusion that 1 god day =1000 earth days. God created the earth in 6 days hence the 6000 year.
If you try argue with them how that explains dinosaurs and many other things much older than 6000 years some now say it is now 6million years or 60million or how ever many extra zeros it takes to justify their unshakeable beliefs.
Why would God use base 10 arithmetic? Even if He did, why would He be constrained to round numbers like that? Such attempts to limit what God can do are basically heresy.
.
gummble-bee-itch Says:
They are not “interpreting” the Bible but claim that it is literal truth. If you accept that, then you pretty much have to accept the 6,000 year age. Once you start “interpreting” the Bible, you’ve admitted it’s not really the Word of God.
No, it doesn’t give 6,000 years in the bible at all. That requires interpretation.
In fact, whenever we look at words on a page and have the words in our mind, we’re “interpreting” at a basic level. When we apply a combination of words as referring to real things, we’re interpreting even more. The very concept of “literalism” is a myth created to cover for a set of blatant falsehoods.
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Cal Malenky Says:
I have a friend who has become a creationist after 16 years of education, saying now that “Everything I Knew was Wrong”, the Bible is the only truth, everything is prophesied there if you know where to look. There are no contradictions in the Bible if you read it right.
“Reading it right” = interpretation.
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e_to_the_pOTATO BUG Says:
dont have to know anything about radiation, carbon dating, or nuclear decay to make laws pertaining to such concepts.
I would think that if you’re talking about mining uranium, such concepts might be relevant.
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eyeswideopen1 Says:
There are also those inconvenient statements in the old testament saying the sun revolves around the earth…
Whenever a creationist starts in on Darwin, I want to say “whoa, back it up, you aren’t done disproving Galileo yet.”
July 8th, 2009 at 3:59 pmElBruce Says:
gummble-bee-itch Says:
They are not “interpreting” the Bible but claim that it is literal truth. If you accept that, then you pretty much have to accept the 6,000 year age. Once you start “interpreting” the Bible, you’ve admitted it’s not really the Word of God.
No, it doesn’t give 6,000 years in the bible at all. That requires interpretation.
In fact, whenever we look at words on a page and have the words in our mind, we’re “interpreting” at a basic level. When we apply a combination of words as referring to real things, we’re interpreting even more. The very concept of “literalism” is a myth created to cover for a set of blatant falsehoods.
Sorry, but I guess we’re disagreeing on the term “interpretation.” In terms of religious documents, I’ll stick to a much stricter definition of the word — it doesn’t just mean “reading”. If you believe the Bible to be the literal Word of God, then coming to this conclusion is simply addition and requires no interpretation. Go ahead and plow through that document I posted the link to.
July 8th, 2009 at 4:14 pmMcCain lost the election. I now know that there is NO God. If there is – he can Fukoff!
ps – I’m gay
July 8th, 2009 at 4:53 pmClassic conservative nonsense. Uranium itself is older than 6000 years.
July 8th, 2009 at 5:22 pmLord: Noah!
July 8th, 2009 at 5:41 pmNoah: Yes, Lord?
Lord: I want you to build a quark.
As you examine her statement, it’s also apparent that she see’s no need for laws protecting the environment. After all,
there were no laws for 6,000 years, and our planet is still intact.
This really IS republican logic at it’s finest.
July 8th, 2009 at 6:11 pmThe science used to build your laptop is exactly the same one that has dated the universe in 15 billion years and Earth in 6 billion years… Oh, the computer is off? You don’t know how to use it either? You aren’t aware of anything called com-poooo-there? Sheesh.
This woman looks like the extraterrestrials of Mars Attacks. And bet his head is full of poo poo too.
July 8th, 2009 at 6:44 pmWTF is that RePower America ad that I can’t get out of my way?
July 8th, 2009 at 6:53 pmWell to be accurate, it was a specific branch of Christianity that came up with the 6000 year creation period. There are a thousands of Christian religions, and only some groups accept the 6000 year creation nonsense.
These radical fundamentalists are the natural by product of the fortune seeking evangelical stump preachers who prey on the simpler less educated common folk and those easily subdued by a slick talking Flim Flam man. The evangelical Christian right as massive as it is still only comprises a portion of the Christian sects and branches and many of them, the largest ones in fact, do not believe in a 6000 year creation period. The Mormons are one. The official church position is that the bible is not a scientific document and that science is the way to discern such matters. The LDS church is a huge church with millions of members world wide.
The Catholic Church is another example of a church that doesn’t teach as a doctrine the 6000 year creation period.
In fact, it was a Roman Catholic Priest who gave us the Big Bang theory and who disproved Einsteins theory of a fixed static universe. Years later we’ve discovered that Father Lemaître’s theory’s were correct and that the universe is indeed expanding as he calculated, even though Einstein had challenged his theory of an expanding universe.
And the Catholic church is the largest Christian church in the world, with over a Billion members.
So to say that “Christians” believe that 6000 year nonsense is just not accurate. “Some” Christians believe it. But not even close to all of them do.
July 8th, 2009 at 6:56 pmIgnorance can be cured, but stupid is forever.
Day in and day out we see this type of thing and as I keep saying, these people are getting elected by our fellow citizens. Proof positive that we are perhaps the dumbest nation on Earth.
July 8th, 2009 at 7:01 pmhttp://news.yahoo.com/s/livescience/amazonriverdatedto11millionyearsold
July 8th, 2009 at 8:14 pmWe can laugh but it’s more like that nervous laughter like if that weird aunt of yours began growing a horn in the middle of her forehead.
July 8th, 2009 at 9:14 pmBelieve Bishop Ussher (4 January 1581–21 March 1656) usually gets credit for the 6,000 years as the age of the earth.
He even estimated the day and month of creation.
However, thought the 6,000 years is inline with what information is presented in the Bible – right up until one gets to the time of creation, the Bible never says the earth is 6,000 years old.
The time lapse between verses one and verse two of Genesis is often debate – called the gap theory. Some claim this was a long period time, and some claim that it was a brief period of time.
All one can say from the Bible is that the time frame it appears to record is on the order of 6,000 years.
Ussher used the extensive genealogies in Genesis to make his estimates. These are the so-and-so_01 begate(fathered) so-and-so_11 when he was x years, and so-and=so_01 died when he was y years. This method is highly accurate but there is a rub. The word for “fathered” could mean refer either to a father or a to grandfather. Just as one’s father is your father, so is one’s grandfather your father. So, it’s not known whether or not every generation is included.
It goes without saying that the importance modern people place on dates and times, is completely absent in ancient people.
What is known, and is worth saying, is that it appears that civilization sprang fully formed in the middle East about 35,000 years ago. This is not contrary to the Bible account by bit’s understanding.
bit respectfully suggests that any science beyond this period of history is of value to only seventh grade science students and the ones who write their textbooks.
“… it’s through the radioactive decay of uranium that we know the Earth is billions of years old.”
bit doesn’t think this statement is accurate if it has ever been. Isn’t there a limit to the date range that can be assessed with radio-active dating? That is, after a certain number of half-lives isn’t it – the radioactivity – essentially gone?
July 8th, 2009 at 10:01 pmShove it, bit; yer just as stoopid as she is spouting that crap.
July 8th, 2009 at 10:56 pm“… it’s through the radioactive decay of uranium that we know the Earth is billions of years old.”
Bit doesn’t think this statement is accurate if it has ever been. Isn’t there a limit to the date range that can be assessed with radio-active dating? That is, after a certain number of half-lives isn’t it – the radioactivity – essentially gone
Radiometric dating has been an established scientific technique for more than a century. Radiocarbon dating, the most famous radiometric dating process, has been used since 1949 and is very dependable, having been calibrating by thorough cross-checking against historical records, tree-ring counting (Dendrochronology), yearly ice layers in Greenland, and other methods for determining age. Because Carbon 14 has a half-life of only about 6000 years, it isn’t useful for materials older than 60,000 years. However, there are a number of other decay processes that use isotopes with much longer half-lifes. Potassium 40 has a half-life of 1.2 billion years, so Potassium-Argon dating of ancient lava flows is our most useful technique for dating rock layers tens of millions to billions of years old.
What is known, and is worth saying, is that it appears that civilization sprang fully formed in the middle East about 35,000 years ago. This is not contrary to the Bible account by bit’s understanding.
I believe that this is the historical time line used by Robert E. Howard for his Conan the Barbarian novels, but I’ve never heard of any actual historians who use it. Can you name a few?
Per mainstream anthropology and archeology, “civilization” didn’t really “spring up” anywhere at any particular time in the past. The use of tools and fire and the building of houses pre-dates Homo Sapiens. Paleolithic hunter-gatherers were drawing art on rock walls 35,000 years ago, right about the time humans and dogs domesticated each other. Farming villages and eventually towns have been dug up dating back to the end of the last Ice Age, about 10,000 years ago. We have a continuous record of farming civilizaton in Egypt and Iraq since 7,000 BC. Jericho and Damascus, both sited on good, well-watered soil in otherwise dry country, have been inhabited pretty much constantly for at least this long.
The 6000 year period the lady from Arizona is tossing about doesn’t even cover the age of the world’s oldest town, let alone the age of the Earth.
July 9th, 2009 at 9:32 amHey, bitblt actually has something intellegent to say and a good question. Instead of getting onto him, let’s actually try to answer it, shall we?
bitblt – the half life of uranium varies, depending on which isotope you are talking about. U-234 has a half-life of about 700 million years, whereas U-238 has a half-life of about 4.5 billion years, and it is the exceptionally long half-life that makes uranium ideal for dating Earth. The statement, therefore, was correct.
Also, you are incorrect about the radiation eventually being “gone.” A half-life, in this context, actually refers to the rate of radioactive decay, not the quantity of substance or radiation that continues to exist. What happens is that a substance with an unstable nucleus loses energy over time, emitting ions and radiation spontaneously and randomly. As such, the half-life of an individual atom can’t be predicted, but the half-life of a quanity of atoms with similar half-lives can be predicted. If you have ever had calculus, you know that when unpredictable amounts are calculated, they are calculated not to whole numbers, but to as close to that whole number as possible, so instead of a result being 0, it would actually be .0000000000000000000000000000000001 therefore meaning that there is quite literally no such thing as “nothing.” This same concept holds true for the decaying atoms, as it is impossible to determine if the entire original product is gone or not, it must be accounted for as if there is a tiny amount left, thus we have half-lives, in which zero can never be reached, but it can come incredibly close to zero. Whether or not this means that the “radiation” as you put it still exists depends entirely on the strength of the radation in the context of human exposure, which depends entirely on the isotope to which you are referring.
I hope that wasn’t too technical. If it was, allow me to summarize by simply saying – the statement “it’s through the radioactive decay of uranium that we know the Earth is billions of years old” is 100% accurate.
(in case you’re wondering how half-lives are determined there are formulas that have been derived based on mathematical concepts, and those formulas are listed nicely here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Half-life#Formulas_for_half-life_in_exponential_decay )
July 9th, 2009 at 9:53 amAlso, human civilization (in this context, we will consider that actual civilization roughly co-incides with the development of agriculture, which allowed people to “settle down” instead of remaining nomadic hunter-gatherers), was actually around 10,000 years ago and probably started in Mesopotamia.
Interestingly enough, the Genesis chapter of the Bible has been described by several theologians as being a description, not of the creation of the world, but as the creation of civilization, ie – the change that mankind underwent when he stopped simply taking what God provided (Garden of Eden) and began working the land (knowledge of the tree of good and evil is the knowledge of God, interpreted in this case as the ability to manipulate the environment and to provide for the creatures in it, namely humans). Unlike those that take the Bible literally (and the fact that they rarely, if ever, account for the erroneous translations and multiple edits and cuts that the Bible has undergone over the centuries), this interpretation makes historical sense, is much closer to reality as far as the timeline goes, could have been passed on in oral tradition, and demonstrates a more reasonable understanding of how the ancients described events.
July 9th, 2009 at 10:03 amOne more point, then I’m finished – the calculations used to determine the age of the Earth per the Biblical geneologies are incorrect as well. They are incorrect because they demonstrate a gross misunderstanding of how the ancient Hebrews used ages. People throw out the Biblical data regarding the ages of people, such as Methuselah living to over 900 years, and are then forced to explain the incredibly shorter lives we live now, as well as the scientific reality that human lifespans are finite due to the degredation of our cellular material over time (such as telomere shortening) that cannot be stopped, with more supernatural stories instead of any proveable theories.
The reality is that ages were used to describe the way in which the community viewed the person in question. A person could be 40 years old, and if they were highly respected, the “number of their years” may be described as 250 instead of their actual years, which would be 40.
So, the people who calculated the (biblical) age of the Earth in the first place were operating under a completely incorrect assumption, therefore their number isn’t even close, even if you DO assume that Genesis is the beginning of time, which, as we have already discussed, it is not.
July 9th, 2009 at 10:13 amHmmm . . . nice concept, Smidget, and it meshes with the way human memory works as a collective process, reinforced, of course, by written accounts and the existance of actual artifacts. The Mesopotamians and Egyptians lived amidst the ruins of their past, just as medieval Europeans lived amidst the ruins of ancient Rome.
The working theories on the creation of the “Old Testament” jibe with this. Basically, you have a committe of 6th Century BC Judean scholars who collate records and oral traditions from old Israel and Babylon into a more or less coherent narrative that explains their world as it was and as they think it should be.
You gotta like the bit where the people of Babylon, after being conquered by the Akkadians, the Aramaens, the Assyrians, the Chaldeans, the Persians, the Greeks, etc., still remembering that they were the cultural heirs of ancient Sumer, the oldest civilization in the world.
July 9th, 2009 at 10:23 ambitblt – the half life of uranium varies, depending on which isotope you are talking about. U-234 has a half-life of about 700 million years, whereas U-238 has a half-life of about 4.5 billion years, and it is the exceptionally long half-life that makes uranium ideal for dating Earth. The statement, therefore, was correct.
Yeah bit was reading Uranium, this is what the astronomer said, but bit was thinking C14.
bit did read
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uranium-lead_dating
which has the same numbers as you posted.
But bit also read ICR – Institute of Creation Research.
There are other radiometric dating techniques and one would expect them to agree. In fact one would expect that radiometric information taken from the same sample to agree.
http://www.icr.org/articles/view/4143/261/
Earth’s Oldest Rock Has the Wrong Date
by Brian Thomas, M.S.*
Believe what you want about ICR but they seem to bit to be serious about their science.
Thanks for the respectful reply.
July 9th, 2009 at 10:43 ambitblt Says:
Believe what you want about ICR but they seem to bit to be serious about their science.
July 9th, 2009 at 10:43 am
_____________
No they don’t:
In other words, they pre-conclude that the science is wrong, then cherry-pick anomalous results of radiometric dating as proof that all radiometric dating is inaccurate, thus confirming their pre-conclusion.
That’s not being serious about science.
July 9th, 2009 at 1:18 pmThe problem, bitblt, is not that they are not serious about their science, but that they do not apply it properly. I could go on for pages and pages about why they are, primarily incorrect (I will not say always, as no one is always wrong).
The more that you read of the justification and the quasi-scientific arguments that are made in defense of young-earth hypotheses (I will not say theory, because theories as they apply to science are factual, verifiable, and more frequently than not are descriptions of mechanisms, whereas a hypothesis is a postulation that needs evidentiary support), most are based on the premise that the science is wrong despite the mountains of evidence that it is not, and only a small amount of evidence, very often collected or analyzed in a faulty manner, is offered to support the alternate concept. When asked why scientists don’t take it seriously, they almost always claim it is because scientists don’t like things that mess with their theories. I cannot stress enough how incorrect that assumption is.
Their basic premise – that science rejects ideas that don’t mesh with their working theories, is incorrect from the start. Not only does science no reject new information that debunks old theories, science LIVES for such things. Example – if there was actual, verifiable evidence based on sound scientific principles (in this context I am referring to the proper use and analysis of data collection via various scientific instruments, such as dating of objects using any number of valid methods – valid meaning repeatable tests with properly functioning equipment that holds to truths that we know, such as the half-life of Carbon-14) that something such as the age of the Earth was grossly overstated, that isn’t the kind of thing that gets “science” up in arms, it’s the kind of thing that gets “science” excited, and the kind of thing that Nobel Prizes are awarded for.
This kind of work is usually quite convincing when a lay person reads it, but an expert will give it a brutal mark-up within 5 minutes of reading it on faulty assumptions alone.
That is not to say that science is in total agreement about the age of the Earth, or the age of the universe. There are outliers who think that mainstream science has it wrong. Unfortunately, the onus is on those who disagree with the evidence to prove their point-of-view, and for the vast majority, they can’t prove it at all, let alone to an extent as the current theories have managed to do.
If you are truely interested in this topic, there is a wealth of information out there. Start at an aggregator to get the highlights, then move on to the source documents which provide the details, the methodologies, and underlying assumptions. You can then compare young-Earth hypotheses with mainstream scientific theories from an objective standpoint. Warning – scientific documents are notoriously dry and complicated. I suggest that you find information that intends to teach scientific concepts as opposed to the actual studies that are cited in the teaching materials. These types of sources are more geared to making the concepts understandable regardless of scientific background, whereas the source documents are generally written for PhDs, and assume that the reader has a firm grasp on the underlying principles prior to reading.
July 9th, 2009 at 1:19 pmMidland
Jung has some brilliant theories about the human collective conscious. The quick and dirty of it is that once the information is out there, it tends to stick around, and becomes more widely known without necessarily needing to be pushed onto the rest of the population.
I really think that people who take the Bible literally word-for-word are really naieve about how ancient people used literature. The Bible is about as true as Aesop’s fables – most of the stories didn’t really happen, and we know that. But there is a moral to the story. The idea is to carry on the oral traditions and mythologies of the ancestors while also imparting some sense of morality on the people. What I find interesting is that the Jews don’t take Genesis literally, and it’s their story. Perhaps the evangelicals would do themselves some good to actually do some research and talk to some experts, instead of assuming that Pastor Bob has all the answers.
July 9th, 2009 at 1:29 pm@chiroptera toasterhead
Definately a shorter way of getting the same point across. :)
July 9th, 2009 at 1:30 pm@YoungRepublican,
“Nowhere in the bible does it say the earth is 6000 years old”
No, it wouldn’t would it, since it was written between 1,800 and 2,800 years ago? At that time it was written it would have said “4,200″ to “3,200 years old” had the writers cared, depending on which book the quotation would have been found.
You do know how this whole 6,000 year old thing started, right? Bishop Ussher in the oh so modern 17th century and “4004 BC on October 27 at 9 AM“!!!!, computed backward through the begats.
Reminds me of that old favorite, “When They Begin… When They Begin … The Begats”…..
July 10th, 2009 at 4:14 am@bitblt,
Why would the atmosphere be filled with Helium? It’s inert so it can’t be captured by compounding or captured in any containter except crystal structures, and it is very light. The He not locked in crystal structures (e.g. the zircons) all floated away! How can this guy not see that?
Both the objections involving Helium are totally irrelevant.
So far as the C14 measurement in coal small amounts seem to be generated constantly from radioactive decay of Uranium in the surrounding rocks of some coal deposits. In any case as the linked article below discusses, the levels registered are at the limit of instrumental precision, and so are actually consistent with a “true” reading of zero. So the coal may actually have C14 in it — or it may not — but if it does, it was generated recently in geological terms.
So far as the diamonds that show C14 there is a tentative explanation discussion which can be found at this link: http://www.asa3.org/ASA/education/origins/carbon-kb.htm (WARNING! Pretty technical stuff)
July 10th, 2009 at 4:47 amOnly in the USA, folks, stupid remarks from the right wing conservative bible thumping brain washed fundamentalist republicans are accepted as facts. Only in the GOP is stupidity considered knowledge. They have become a party of NO to a party of no brains, no common senses. They are the reason why the US has become a backwards to the Dark Ages.
But than again, she come from the same state John McCain came from, doesn’t it? And the same state that Sarah Palin was coached on her speech when she would become president, err, I mean vice-president?
To borrow some of Terry Dick’s comments: The Arizona State Senator, Sylvia Allen, is undoubtedly living proof that a pig’s bladder on a stick can be elected as a member of the Arizona State government.
July 10th, 2009 at 10:00 amThe Arizona State Senator Sylvia Allen is proof the inmates are running the insane asylum.
Poor Arizonians, so far from God, so close to insanity!
July 10th, 2009 at 10:09 amI wonder if she is part of the C Street cult of Republicans?
July 11th, 2009 at 10:31 amWell the earth is 6,000 years old and is flat. There is no climate change. There is no evolution as all species were created in 7 days. Whites are the superior race and they’ll be swept up in a rapture at the end of times. That’s the way it is, like it or no. Why? Because the radical right say so, that’s why. It’s a good thing they don’t believe in extinction; otherwise, they could clearly see their party’s in the “endangered species” category.
July 12th, 2009 at 4:27 pmThe herd mentality is well and strong in Arizona. This woman is just regurgitating what she was brought up to believe. There is not much difference between an American evangelical and an Afghan Taliban. They do not practice faith, they practice obedience and an obdurate resistance to any critical thinking. I would not characterize most of them as evil. I would characterize the people who lead them and indoctrinate them as evil. In the name of God they lead the poor flock astray. They truly do the work of Satan.
July 12th, 2009 at 10:55 pmUncle Ho / Zooey:
Make that a moose turd and put Sarah Palin’s picture on it!
July 15th, 2009 at 3:48 am