I certainly haven’t voted to have my taxs dollars go to torturing Palestinians or building Israeli nuclear weapons!

That rich, and quite ironic, coming from the guy who failed epically at smearing house dems. You really aren’t too good at debate, just over-the top hyperbole. And if you’ll note, I’ve never resorted to ad hominems, which is the sure sign of a losing argument, like yours.

Well, all I can speak of is from my own experience, the drug cartels have infiltrated my city and state (and sometimes even federal agencies). From what I’ve seen, the military forces have been the ones doing the best work against the drug dealers.

Sorry, barfly. Carter flew Somoza out of NIcaragua (on a Red Cross plane, by the way, violating international law) and continue to fund death squads in Central America, besides protecting a ruthless dictator.

On the other hand, releasing that money would surely help us in the current war against drug traffic, which has been getting uglier these past 6 or 7 years.

Sorry…what? Help who? The government, yeah. They are expecting that money with foam on the mouth, but we, the people, couldn’t have worse news. The money will buy guns that will be put in the hands of future drugdealers’ agents. Guns won’t stop nothing, far from it, it will arm more people that will seek more money and the big money is in drugdealers’ hands.

Felipe Calderón put the military right after his “victory” in Michoacán, for example. And what happened? We have had the worst assassination records ever. The Mérdia Plan is exactly the Condor PLan from Clinton’s days in Colombia. Result? Paramilitaries killing thousands of peasants.

Try Jimmy Carter.

i did try jimmy carter….

i didn’t look very long, but its pretty clear that we were actively supporting and training death squads in el salvador during jimmy carter’s administration.

its not like it was new to his administration, but it surely didn’t stop under his administration and it continued after it.

so no…. carter’s administration is not free of human rights violations

unless funding and training members of death squads doesnt count.

and i think hanshiro’s point on forced rendition is that its also a violation of human rights, just like torture is

therefore it is also relevant to our credibility on human rights

just as torture is.

the fact that we practice forced rendition and torture puts us in violation on multiple counts. (i know, i know, we said we won’t do it again)

thus hurting our credibility… i don’t see how forced rendition is not relevant to our credibility on human rights.

Epic fail, barf…ly.

You completely ignored the context of my post. Notwithstanding your repeatedly tired attempt to impose a truly off topic reference to single payer, one you also lost and also has no bearing on this thread, twice.

Your purpose is clear: Not to engage, not to expand, but to target, attempt to smear and mis-characterize; thus is the domain of trolls and sore losers.

..and you suck at it. Still, I guess one can’t pick and choose ones’ own stalkers groupies…

Try Jimmy Carter.

so i don’t think he misses the point

Well, give ‘ol “barf-ly” a chance to show you the error.

Rendition has been around since the Reagan administration, and from then until the Clinton administration, it was used to bring known terrorists to justice. Extraordinary rendition was started during the Bush years, chiefly to avoid American laws against torture of prisoners. There was nothing wrong with past usages of rendition, because it wasn’t used to get around torture, and our international reputation suffered very little from these instances. it wasn’t until Bush started using rendition to put detainees under torture, that the program became controversial, and caused us to be viewed as a human-rights violator, in the world community. It wasn’t rendition that gave us the black eye, it was torture, so hanshiro’s linkage to Greenwald conflates the two issues, when as the thread states:

Torture By Mexican Government In Drug War Highlights U.S. Loss of Credibility On Human Rights

There was no rendition in the Mexican case, and the article the thread references makes no mention of our lost credibility because of rendition, only torture. So hanshiro’s attempt at conflation fails miserably, much as his previous attempt at smearing house democrats to make a bogus point about the single-payer healthcare option.

I personally feel no ethical compulsion to obey any American law until that law applies to Bush and Cheney first.

Has the crime rate been going up lately?

i’m with hanshiro on this one

i think the topic is our credibility on human rights more so than it is torture.

forced rendition has a great deal to do with our credibility on human rights.

so i don’t think he misses the point

if you honestly think saying something to the tune of “america no longer tortures” is sufficient you’re denying decades of history in which we have tortured… that is if you honestly think a statement like that is enough. I’m not convinced that we won’t continue to torture and violate human rights under obama…. its hard to think of a single president who’s administration was not guilty of one or the other.

as far as credibility on human rights go… our government has very little.

I had to stop my list where it was, had to go back to work.

its all good

i was just adding to the list to make a point of just how many violations there are

if we were to make a complete list we’d need to do some research (at least i know i would) and it’d be on hell of a long list.

The “Merida Initiative” is just a pretty name for more government sanctioned, taxpayer subsidized, corporate terrorism. Just like the middle east and South America,
only next door.

PEACE

Dems and Progressives ONLY SEEM TO WANT TO FIGHT WITH EQUALS.

I had to stop my list where it was, had to go back to work.