Inspectors General Confirm Bush Admin Carried Out Massive Illegal Surveillance, More Than Previously Known
Inspectors General Confirm Bush Admin Carried Out Massive Illegal Surveillance, More Than Previously Known
A congressionally-mandated report by Inspectors General of five separate intelligence agencies confirms that the Bush administration carried out “unprecedented,” massive surveillance activities beyond the warrantless wirteapping program that had previously been revealed. The Bush administration authorized the program without fully notifying Congress:
Rep. Jane Harman, D-Calif., told The Associated Press she was shocked to learn of the existence of other classified programs beyond the warrantless wiretapping.
Former Bush Attorney General Alberto Gonzales made a terse reference to other classified programs in an August 2007 letter to Congress. But Harman said that when she had asked Gonzales two years earlier if the government was conducting any other undisclosed intelligence activities, he denied it.
“He looked me in the eye and said ‘no,’” she said Friday.
As ThinkProgress previously reported, former Deputy Attorney General James Comey’s testimony before Congress implied that “other programs exist for domestic spying” outside of the NSA program. Gonzales even stated in 2007 that “other intelligence activities” existed. The new report found Gonzales’ statements to be “incomplete and confusing” and “inaccurate,” though not intentionally misleading.
Attorney General John Ashcroft had originally given authorization for the program based on a “misimpression” of what activities the NSA was actually conducting. The lack of full disclosure led to the showdown in Ashcroft’s hospital room in 2004, which almost caused a mass resignation at DoJ.
According to the report, top Cheney aide David Addington could personally decide who in the administration was “read into” the classified program. The inspectors general interviewed more than 200 people inside and outside the government. But because the inspectors general “lacked the authority to compel testimony,” five former Bush administration officials — Ashcroft, John Yoo, George Tenet, Andrew Card, and Addington — refused to be questioned.
Most of the intelligence leads generated under what was known as the “President’s Surveillance Program,” which began shortly after 9/11, did not have any connection to terrorism, the report said. Moreover, the information produced was of “limited” value to intelligence officials.
White the IGs’ report does not yield any details about the secret programs, Radar reported in 2008 that a program called “Main Core” was engaged in massive data collection of Americans:
According to a senior government official… ”There exists a database of Americans, who, often for the slightest and most trivial reason, are considered unfriendly, and who, in a time of panic, might be incarcerated. The database can identify and locate perceived ‘enemies of the state’ almost instantaneously.” … One knowledgeable source claims that 8 million Americans are now listed in Main Core as potentially suspect. In the event of a national emergency, these people could be subject to everything from heightened surveillance and tracking to direct questioning and possibly even detention.
Glenn Greenwald notes that there likely “will be no consequences” for any of this “rampant and blantant” lawlessness because the Obama administration “opposes all Congressional investigations into Bush-era crimes and, worse, is engaged in extraordinary efforts to block courts from adjudicating the legality of Bush’s surveillance activities by claiming that even long-obsolete and clearly criminal programs are ’state secrets.’”
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It’s time all the perpetrators go to jail.
July 11th, 2009 at 3:15 pmBravo, TP!
July 11th, 2009 at 3:15 pmthere is one thing for sure the demos are spineless
the repubs are facists
welcome to america folks
the republic is lost due to apathic voters or lack of
July 11th, 2009 at 3:16 pmThe weight of these investigations will force the Obama administration to prosecute these criminals.
Write your Congress people!!
July 11th, 2009 at 3:17 pm“John Ashcroft, John Yoo, George Tenet, Andrew Card, and David Addington — refused to be questioned”
The axis of traitor, facists and war criminals too.
July 11th, 2009 at 3:18 pmOK…
So the next question that needs to be answered is this:
Does the FISA reform and retroactive immunity that candidate Obama supported (even though he promised not to) mean that it is impossible to hold anyone accountable?
July 11th, 2009 at 3:19 pmDoes anyone know the answer to question at #6? Has anyone seen any reports or blogs by qualified people to address this?
If it can be shown that the FISA reform with retro immunity was passed based on intentional lies and deceptions, do the Dems and Obama get another opportunity to do the right thing?
July 11th, 2009 at 3:21 pmNo prosecutions = more and more of the same. that is unacceptable. i hope everyone in office sees how that is not acceptable to us.
July 11th, 2009 at 3:23 pmAnother Joe Says:
OK…
So the next question that needs to be answered is this:
Does the FISA reform and retroactive immunity that candidate Obama supported (even though he promised not to) mean that it is impossible to hold anyone accountable?
It seems to me that if you can pass a law granting retroactive immunity, you should be able to pass one to take that away. – Not that I think that will happen.
As you say Zooey. Letters and phone calls are necessary. The day must come when our government officials execute the DUTIES of their office. How sad that we must badger them into doing so?
This reminds me though, do any telecom companies still exist that didn’t sell their clients down the river? My contract is up and I would love to reward one of them with some business!
July 11th, 2009 at 3:24 pmIf I read Greenwald’s post correctly, he is stating that nothing will happen because the administration will not take a stand and would not revisit the issue, even if he could.
Of course, that legitimately opens Obama up to criticism by progressives and liberals – points of view that people should have a right to express (and that Glenn is expressing on his blog and, via links and quotes, indirectly here).
Does anyone know if that retro immunity could be thrown out based on these lies and distortions?
July 11th, 2009 at 3:25 pmInspectors General Confirm Bush Admin Carried Out Massive Illegal Surveillance, More Than Previously Known
– - Terrific, we can all get worked up over something that will never result in any criminal indictments. Move on…
July 11th, 2009 at 3:26 pmApe-Man, post that downstairs and see what it gets ya!
July 11th, 2009 at 3:26 pmtbone – I don’t think they can take it away now, but if it was passed via fraudulent misrepresentations that might be another story.
But am not trying to disagree or argue, perhaps you are right. Perhaps others can chime in and we can clearly see what the situation is.
Of course, if Glenn’s analysis is correct, it is all moot because Obama already threw this segment of his base under the bus and is not looking for an opportunity to bring them back on board.
July 11th, 2009 at 3:29 pmSince Obama isn’t doing a damned thing to bring the Bushies to justice…
I just have one question…
It there some sort of “state secret” or “secret knowledge” that these people are privy to, that, for reasons unknown, can’t be revealed to the public? Seriously…
Obama ran as a progressive, but then as soon as he was elected, it’s “give my progressive base the royal screw job, and don’t prosecute Bush for his war crimes.”
I want to know, really, is there some sort of secret that they’re let in on upon appointment to office?
ARE terrorists clamoring just off of our shores, just WAITING to burst in the second we let down our bloated, over-budgeted military guard? Is THAT why these leaders ignore progressivism and pacifism?
Or could it be instead, that Obama just pandered to what the public wanted so that he could get elected, but in fact didn’t really care for those who elected him? Thus, no conspiracy, just the same ol’ same ol’ except this time, someone dared to appeal to change we really truly want and need, and dared to not give it to us.
July 11th, 2009 at 3:30 pmBadmoodman – sad thing is, that is how finalized the stolen 2000 election anyhow, proclaiming we had to “move on”
Look what happened next, an fake terrorist attack that was perpetrated by the same criminal cabal behind dur chimpfurher.
From there, things went rapidly down hill. Maybe we will need to “move on” though…
July 11th, 2009 at 3:31 pmBottom Line: The corrupt, facist SCOTUS will side with lies, distortions and even murder, war crimes and treason if it’s regarding the defense of a RePugniScum.
July 11th, 2009 at 3:31 pmoh my goodness, mr. burns! I agree with you point of view and welcome your questions (though perhaps they are rhetorical, right?). When I make comments like that, I hold on to my chair and keep a fire extinguisher handy.
July 11th, 2009 at 3:32 pmYou’re right, dixie. It would just be game, set, match.
But at least it would mostly be in the open again and the public would see who the real players were and what their roles were.
July 11th, 2009 at 3:33 pmand now they want to renew that inapropriately maned Patriot Act.
July 11th, 2009 at 3:35 pmMr. Burns Says:
Obama ran as a progressive…
July 11th, 2009 at 3:30 pm
Actually, he ran as a moderate Democrat.
July 11th, 2009 at 3:35 pmummmmmmmmm….
Burns….
A little secret for you…
A group of 19 makeshift gang wannabes with boxcutters did not defeat the most powerful air control and military systems in the world in cahoots with an old cia asset on a dialysis machine in a cave half-way across the world.
Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh…
There is residues of thermite at the twin-towers site. It was an inside job.
July 11th, 2009 at 3:36 pmSo how involved are Murdoch & Fox “news” ?? We now know they hacked into personal info for politicians & celebrities in Britain. How did they lobby for more illegal surveillance in the U.S., since Fox & Bush were big buddies? Bush, Cheney, et al are no better than the terrorists. They lied, killed, wiretapped, tortured— seems to fit the bill for me.
July 11th, 2009 at 3:37 pmRep. Jane Harman, D-Calif., told The Associated Press she was shocked to learn of the existence of other classified programs beyond the warrantless wiretapping.
Meanwhile, everyone else is shocked to learn about warrantless wiretapping.
July 11th, 2009 at 3:38 pmClinton did the same thing…the left gets screwed just after the Prez takes the oath.
They are told things that we are not privy to and it’s screwing our democracy.
Too bad the MSM is part of the coverup of this crap instead of standing with the people, their customers.
July 11th, 2009 at 3:39 pmThis reminds me though, do any telecom companies still exist that didn’t sell their clients down the river?
Sadly, even if there were some business enterprises selling you phone services that were not selling their customers out, they are renting phone line and access from companies that are selling you out.
There is not competition in that market, it has been divided up and is operated via collusion.
July 11th, 2009 at 3:39 pmWE ALL knew bush was doing this and for political reasons. In ‘04, during the election, Kerry remarked how the bush team always knew where he was going to be and followed him.
Is the public STILL thinking this was fine with the idea bush kept US safe?
Could it be bush kept US safe as, in the first place, he always had knowledge and control?
July 11th, 2009 at 3:42 pmAnother Joe Says:
Badmoodman – sad thing is, that is how finalized the stolen 2000 election anyhow, proclaiming we had to “move on”
– - Al Gore make the decision to “move on.” Some Democrats wanted to fight.
July 11th, 2009 at 3:42 pmdixie blood – mainstream media only serves its INTERNAL CUSTOMERS, the larger global corporations that own it.
It’s external customers (consumers of said news) are held in contempt.
The group of 5 global corporations that own 80 percent or more of the media around the world have decided those assets are worth much more as propaganda tools (serving INTERNAL customers) and treating their EXTERNAL customers as sheeple.
July 11th, 2009 at 3:43 pmIt would be poetic justice if the Obama administration used these expanded power to wiretap, and incarcerate -with no legal recourse whatsoever- some of the rightwing losers who supported this madness during the Bush years.
July 11th, 2009 at 3:43 pmGlenn Greenwald notes that there likely “will be no consequences” for any of this “rampant and blantant” lawlessness because the Obama administration “opposes all Congressional investigations into Bush-era crimes and, worse, is engaged in extraordinary efforts to block courts from adjudicating the legality of Bush’s surveillance activities by claiming that even long-obsolete and clearly criminal programs are ’state secrets.’”
Thank you for this, TP. It is enlightening to know what we’re dealing with, and it doesn’t appear to be big on promised transparency.
July 11th, 2009 at 3:44 pmJohn (skull-and-bones) Kerry made same call. If you wrote this all as a novel, publishers would turn it down because it seems far to hokey for any readers to suspend any disbelief.
July 11th, 2009 at 3:44 pmAh, yes. Ol’ Speedy looked Representative Jane straight in the eye and lied. Surprise surprise.
And the whole thing goes back to David Addington, Cheney’s detail man and totalitarian tool. Another non-shocker.
Well, I have to go away now and commit seppuku. Addington, being a graduate of the same high school as myself has brought shame on an entire city and state, not to mention whatever mess he’s created by completely contraverting the constitution.
July 11th, 2009 at 3:44 pmIt is safe to assume we who post here are all on a government watch list, to be rounded up and disposed of should things turn ugly.
The natural tendency of any government is to increase its power and control over those governed. I believe it was Jefferson who said a little revolution every 20 years or so is a good thing. Those little revolutions help keep the government in check. The last thing that could possibly qualify as a mini revolution were the race riots in the 1960s. That’s around 40+ years ago.
After seeing the events unfold as they have with, and more importantly after, this last election, I am more and more convinced that the only way to restore balance will come through armed insurrection. When it does, and thus far it looks inevitable, it will make Iran look like a cakewalk. Millions will die. It will have the potential to grow into a global class war between the very wealth ruling class and everybody else.
Redistribution of wealth and power can only occur one of two ways, peacefully or violently. South Africa, when it chose to end apartheid, did so peacefully. Will the rest of the world follow its example? Time will tell, but the signs are not good.
July 11th, 2009 at 3:45 pmGregor Samsa, perhaps it would have some value as a catharsis. But if I am reading Glenn correctly, he is answering to the same folks anyhow, so it wouldn’t change anything.
July 11th, 2009 at 3:45 pmThey are told things that we are not privy to and it’s screwing our democracy
How can we be assured they are not being lied to, deceived? We can’t and we’re f@cked. Congress has to prosecute the whole lot before the problem really, really gets in our faces.
Patriot act my ass.
July 11th, 2009 at 3:46 pmresearcher Says:
——————————————————————————–
there is one thing for sure the demos are spineless
the repubs are facists
welcome to america folks
the republic is lost due to apathic voters or lack of
July 11th, 2009 at 3:16 pm
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
you hit the nail on the head. We have the country we have because of the most ignorant, immoral electorate on the face of the earth. I mean, over 50% of Americans think torture is okay. Never mind that it is against International and our own laws. So what.. This is a country of morons.. These people can’t think logically or critically. Whatever sound bite the corporate media feeds them that is the mantra of the day.
The Dems really can’t have a spine because the public doesn’t give a darn about the lies, the corruption, the killing, the torture.the public would say dems are being political if they tried to hold Bush accountable for the endless crimes he has committed. Why should the Dems commit political suicide.
how would the public know crimes were committed? 70% of them
don’t even know the basic characteristics of our government.
And they themselves are unethical. Get any honest work done on your house, your car, your teeth in the last decades??? No, just ripped off everywhere in the MOST CHRISTIAN country in the world.. The American people are what has brought this country DOWN. They are ignorant and apathetic, and I for one hate sharing the planet with them.
July 11th, 2009 at 3:47 pmCould it be bush kept US safe as
I know you don’t beieve this, but have to state that anyone that does has drank the kool-aide. The spying began before 9/11, they were directly warned about that attack, and did nothing.
But that story is probably even a cover-up or distortion because it was an inside job!
July 11th, 2009 at 3:47 pmBriseadh na Faire – does this mean I should not plan on flying any time during my lifetime?
July 11th, 2009 at 3:52 pmMr. Burns says:
It there some sort of “state secret” or “secret knowledge” that these people are privy to, that, for reasons unknown, can’t be revealed to the public? Seriously…
I often wonder that, but I don’t know if that is necessary to make someone see things differently once they take office. Perhaps they change their tune because they are making decisions for 300 million people – a weighty prospect to say the least.
That being said, that is not an excuse that washes for me. Personally, I don’t ever want the government to torture, wiretap, invade, search, racially profile, etc. potentially innocent people on my behalf. That is “security” that I don’t want or need.
July 11th, 2009 at 3:53 pmI’m shocked that anyone could be shocked at this point.
July 11th, 2009 at 3:53 pmQwest did not sell out. However, they are a kinda scummy company in their own way. From the wiki:
“Former Qwest CEO Joseph Nacchio, who was convicted of insider trading in April 2007, alleged in appeal documents that the NSA requested that Qwest participate in its wiretapping program more than six months before September 11, 2001. Nacchio recalls the meeting as occurring on February 27, 2001. Nacchio further claims that the NSA cancelled a lucrative contract with Qwest as a result of Qwest’s refusal to participate in the wiretapping program.[9]”
The company was founded by hard core reich-winger Philip Anschutz.
July 11th, 2009 at 3:56 pmToo bad the MSM is part of the coverup of this crap instead of standing with the people, their customers.
The corporate owned media also invested in defense, insurance, Big Pharma is screwing the American people and there is no way out until we pass a campaign finance reform to get them out of the pockets of the law makers.
It is in the corporate powers that be interests to cover up this just as they cover up a very important issue: health. care.
July 11th, 2009 at 3:56 pmdixie blood Says:
——————————————————————————–
The company was founded by hard core reich-winger Philip Anschutz.
July 11th, 2009 at 3:56 pm
Robert Byrd is also a former KKK member ; we ALL have a past that isn’t always admirable…….
July 11th, 2009 at 4:01 pmIt is safe to assume we who post here are all on a government watch list, to be rounded up and disposed of should things turn ugly.
Damn – until then, is that why WINDOWS keeps crashing?
July 11th, 2009 at 4:03 pmdixie:
July 11th, 2009 at 4:03 pmThanks for the info on QWEST. I remember they refused to cooperate, but I didn’t know about the trading and right-wing ties. I’m not so sure that they didn’t get bought out by AT&T either. I was looking to switch companies and when I searched for info on Qwest, I seem to remember they were with AT&T. Someone correct me if I am wrong.
And we still have not heard from “Evil” Cheney or Bush how there illeagl polices kept America safe and we probably won’t. America owes itself and the world to have Cheney and Bush be prosecuted. This is just disturbing.
July 11th, 2009 at 4:05 pmranus69 allowing this to become a “debate” about whether it worked or not is just a slight of hand that plays right into cheney/chimpy’s hands.
I am concerned if progressives/liberals and anyone else that calls themselves a “patriot” even lets the dialog degenerate to that point.
July 11th, 2009 at 4:10 pmThey misled and lied to everyone there has to be charges brought up against them there just has to be. Man, this is un(phucking)believable. They ruined the integrity of our Justice system WOW. I’m mad as hell and I want them in jail. My state Rep and state Senators are going to get an earful from me next week regarding this.
July 11th, 2009 at 4:12 pmtbone,
Here’s the web site for Qwest:
http://www.qwest.com/
IMHO, they could not be owned by AT&T with links to Verizon on their site. The 2 are mortal enemies.
I cannot find anything on the wiki about AT&T buying them.
July 11th, 2009 at 4:13 pmranus69 #48 – best comment I have read today, it is about doing something more than keying our thoughts and opinions.
That is what a dialog is really all about – it doesn’t matter whether or not we agree on everything, but if each accepts responsibilities for his/her own reflective opinions and acts on them, we have done all we can.
Perhaps something good will happen, without that last step, action, we know nothing will happen.
July 11th, 2009 at 4:21 pmDixie blood – Qwest is NOT owned by AT&T – they partner with Verizon for wireless service. Qwest is what used to be US West, and I think is the only phone company that is still in the same form as it was when the Bell system was broken up in about 1982.
July 11th, 2009 at 4:21 pmresearcher Says:
there is one thing for sure the demos are spineless
the repubs are facists
welcome to america folks
the republic is lost due to apathic voters or lack of
Man – I couldn’t agree with you more. I think I’m more disgusted with the dems than the republicans. It just shows, to me anyway, that both sides are owned, lock, stock, and barrel by all of the special interests in this country. As long as they keep getting their pockets filled with money, they will NEVER do the right thing – it really sucks.
July 11th, 2009 at 4:24 pmInteresting update – thanks for posting, faiz.
As I have been told in no uncertain terms, TP is not a “news site” (never said it was) but it is refreshing to see that issues and updates that relate to breaking news is part of the dialog again.
July 11th, 2009 at 4:28 pmHowever Phillip F. Anschutz has not changed. Byrd left the klan. Phillip F. Anschutz along with Richard Mellon Scaife and other reich-wing facist support the Discovery Institute which supports “Intelligent Design.”
Phillip F. Anschutz is an enemy of democracy! He wants to replace democracy with a Christianista Theocracy.
July 11th, 2009 at 4:29 pmDoes anyone believe anything the CIA says? Really? It’s our own little homegrown terrorist organization.
July 11th, 2009 at 4:30 pmdixie blood Says:
OOPS! Sorry for the bad info. I think my faulty memory swapped Verizon for AT&T. Thanks for clearing that up.
From their website it looks like they are partnered with Verizon and DirecTV.
July 11th, 2009 at 4:30 pmPut these lying bastards in jail. Blaming congress does not change the fact that what they did was against the freaking law. Jail time is necessary.
July 11th, 2009 at 4:30 pmmuzz – know what you mean, often feel the same.
Mike Malloy has a good take on this that I think would be fair to summarize as this:
Progressives need to know that they are shut out of the dialog, even though every election the dems pander to them for support. We know our leaders are not progressive. We know that Obama is not a progressive.
To see progressive change will take more work. We need to be engaged in the dialog. We need to be willing to take stands on issues. We need to be ready to contact reps. We need to organize economic boycotts if we are ignored.
It will take years to change some things, but that is our challenge. Progressives need to be in this for the long-haul.
July 11th, 2009 at 4:32 pmRich H – and the bush family is cia all the way.
And the bush family was the front group for the political/economic interests that brought hitler to power and then financed BOTH sides of the war.
It’s not that they are an important family, they are compliant tools. This is where their power comes from.
Homegrown terrorist organization? Just ask poppy where he was on November 22, 1963 – you will get a lie!
July 11th, 2009 at 4:34 pmHi, Proud! Didn’t know Bush 43 got elected a third term!
July 11th, 2009 at 4:35 pmProud:
July 11th, 2009 at 4:35 pmEven if, as you claim, these tactics work, I don’t care. I prefer to prevent terrorism without breaking the law.
And how much of it was to help Political Czar Karl Rove dig up dirt on opponents to build his 30-year GOP reich?
July 11th, 2009 at 4:37 pmMassive Illegal Suviellance is serious stuff there False Proud. Time for you to get out of this kitchen.
July 11th, 2009 at 4:38 pmI know this. I never said Qwest was owned by AT&T. Quite the opposite just 2 posts above this one at #49. Please read it.
Another blogger was making the claim you are incorrectly correcting me for.
July 11th, 2009 at 4:38 pmI’m totally disgusted at the Obama administration. If the gardener found a missing baby’s femur with Cheney’s tooth marks on it buried in the rose garden they’d probably ignore that too.
July 11th, 2009 at 4:39 pmexactly, tbone – even obama acknowledged this last fall during debates. We cannot fight extremists by selling out our values as a nation. They win – period.
We cannot let this degrade into a dialog about whether or not it worked because the mainstream media will control that outcome, giving the same group of lying liars the bully pulpit.
If we are a nation of laws, then we need to go back to our Constitution and Bill of Rights.
If our elected officials cannot uphold their oaths to defend said documents and the rights they bestow on all Americans, let them publically proclaim this.
July 11th, 2009 at 4:40 pmCal Malenky – guess the “good news” is the political dirt on repugs seems to just fall out of the trees.
Did we lose a potential presidential candidate again this week?
July 11th, 2009 at 4:42 pmProud, why don’t you go to the post below and keep Santo company.
July 11th, 2009 at 4:53 pmMoonrise Starship, my ass…
July 11th, 2009 at 4:56 pmSo is this cause for hope, a whitewash, or will obama squash it before anything can happen:
Report: Holder may yet initiate torture probe
In spite of President Barack Obama’s reluctance, Attorney General Eric Holder may yet appoint a special prosecutor to plumb the depths of the Bush administration’s torture program, according to a published report.
July 11th, 2009 at 5:00 pmJeff Bovine – good point, using the faux left/right paradigm and proclaiming he was right in the middle (which for propaganda purposes is referred to as “moderate” in order to enhance it’s impact) denies the fact that obama made clear and specific statements as candidate obama that he has run away from now.
We do not need to limit dialog by proclaiming he is either this or that. We do need to hold ALL politicians accountable for the rhetoric they use to get our money and votes.
July 11th, 2009 at 5:03 pmEight million Americans on that list and they still can’t prevent the wingnuts murder sprees.
You’d think it would be good for something.
July 11th, 2009 at 5:06 pmMathazar, maybe they use it for recruiting…
July 11th, 2009 at 5:11 pmJeff Bovine @ #72 – Amen, brother.
As for the revocation of immunity based on false information, I found a link describing qualified immunity for government cases, but I can’t tell if the law passed in this instance granting the immunity would make this moot.
Any lawyers out there who could explain this to me?
July 11th, 2009 at 5:11 pmhttp://www.lectlaw.com/def2/q063.htm
Conservatives are only happy when they are breaking the law and perverting justice.
Evidently, they also spend a lot of time perverting with prostitutes, the wives of their best friends, their campaign staff, and living the lives of closet homosexuals.
Some of them do on the “appalacian trail,” in diapers, demanding to be spanked and while talking about “man-on-dog” sex. Always outside of the sanctity of their marriages that they loudly bleat about protecting.
July 11th, 2009 at 5:14 pmSorry, mod squad, but dixie at #16 has ya covered there – point will be moot.
July 11th, 2009 at 5:16 pmI can appreciate dixie’s sentiment, but I was looking for something a little more concrete as to current law. I just take it as a given that the current SCOTUS will back the Reich – but I’d like to make them give their rationalizations in a public forum nevertheless.
July 11th, 2009 at 5:21 pmI am NOT a lawyer.
Yet, I can’t remember a promise of immunity that did not come with the caveat that the testimony be completely truthful. Otherwise the immunity is revoked and prosecution starts up again.
Otherwise you don’t get the truth.
July 11th, 2009 at 5:22 pmModerate Squad – Just to prevent misunderstandings, I actually asked the same question, you provided a great link – thanks. I wasn’t trying to make a comment about your question, just felt dixie had it right.
July 11th, 2009 at 5:25 pmThis is why we need cameras at the SCOTUS. Americans should see what’s going on.
July 11th, 2009 at 5:26 pmJeff Bovine Says:
Zooey Says:
Actually, he ran as a moderate Democrat.
Precisely. Being a moderate Dem doesn’t mean he wont embrace progressive policies, but it does mean he’s not afraid to balance progressive and liberal policies and beliefs with moderate and mainstream issues. Lighten up, no one gets their way all the time. This is life. Suck it up.
July 11th, 2009 at 5:00 pm
I wasn’t complaining, Jeff, merely making an observation.
July 11th, 2009 at 5:27 pmWe don’t need cameras – we could show everyone what they need to see if we went in there with crayons and that crazy paper they have in elementary school that still has huge chunks of wood in it.
July 11th, 2009 at 5:28 pmHarman is “Shocked! Shocked!” she says? What a bunch of ostriches we’ve had conducting oversight for us! Anyone ever hear of “due diligence”? Congress would willingly excoriate any civil servant who failed to give it!!!!! Their hypocrisy makes me sick!
July 11th, 2009 at 5:34 pmWow #88, get up on the wrong side of the bridge this morning?
July 11th, 2009 at 5:34 pm#86 – Another Joe,
I like your sentiment. However the only people allowed into the hearings are very carefully selected and limited by space. The MSM gets some seats, but, we can’t trust them simply because the SCOTUS does and because they are…well… the MSM.
The others are parties to the lawsuit (lawyers) and maybe some invited observers. I think that’s about it.
I would rather see things for myself (”in camera” to use a legal term) even though I have some crayons and would like to be there; you and I would never be allowed.
July 11th, 2009 at 5:40 pmYou know, I am getting sick to death of Glenn Greenwald. Who appointed him the all-knowing all-seeing arbitrator of what President Obama will and will not do? The fact is we don’t know if Obama is going to go after prosecuting Bush. And why is that? Because Obama is the kind of guy who wants to get all his ducks in a row before he makes monumental decisions. And considering the mess that the Bush Crime Family has created, it is going to take more than six months to get those ducks in a row much less understand everything that went on.
I am still willing to give President Obama the benefit of the doubt on whether or not he ever prosecutes the Bush Crime Family. If nothing has happened by 2012, I sure won’t be voting for Obama again. But, I am not willing to throw him under the bus 6 months after he took office.
July 11th, 2009 at 5:41 pmDoc, are we talking about little jane harman who’s husband Sidney is chairman of the Executive Committee of the Board of Business Executives for National Security and has a long list of ties to the military-industrial complex?
nah – she couldn’t have known anything, right? Probably just watches the money roll in and asks no questions, right?
Her, pelosi, and the gropinator sometimes make me with CA would really fall off the cliff into economic abyss.
July 11th, 2009 at 5:44 pmHe’s pretty gruff, mod squad, but he had a couple of valid observations downstairs today.
July 11th, 2009 at 5:45 pmJeff Bovine Says:
Zooey Says:
I wasn’t complaining, Jeff, merely making an observation.
~~~~~~~~~~~
I didn’t think you were at all. I apologize if you thought I was being combative with you. I was merely expanding on your thoughts.
July 11th, 2009 at 5:45 pm
Thanks for clearing that up, Jeff. I thought your entire comment was aimed my way.
July 11th, 2009 at 5:47 pmdixie – you are right, but the caricatures with crayons could be a lot of fun!
If you read US history, you will find that the 3rd branch has always been an anvil around the throat of progress.
In fact, the entire “corporation has the rights of a person” from the 1800s decision that largely shapes our political/economic system is a shame – a hack scribe wrote his opinion into his synopsis of the actually opinion and it has been passed down as “gospel” and cited as a precedence ever since.
July 11th, 2009 at 5:48 pmOld Uncle Dave Says:
I’m totally disgusted at the Obama administration. If the gardener found a missing baby’s femur with Cheney’s tooth marks on it buried in the rose garden they’d probably ignore that too.
Just because the Justice Department isn’t on the news daily plotting a plan to prosecute the Bush Crime Family DOES NOT mean that they are ignoring the crimes. All it means is that President Obama thinks before he acts and the has inherited a huge convoluted mess that needs to be sorted out.
This may be the beginning:
Holder Now Leaning Toward Investigating Bush Admin’s Torture Policy
Four knowledgeable sources tell NEWSWEEK that he is now leaning toward appointing a prosecutor to investigate the Bush administration’s brutal interrogation practices, something the president has been reluctant to do. While no final decision has been made, an announcement could come in a matter of weeks, say these sources, who decline to be identified discussing a sensitive law-enforcement matter. Such a decision would roil the country, would likely plunge Washington into a new round of partisan warfare, and could even imperil Obama’s domestic priorities, including health care and energy reform. Holder knows all this, and he has been wrestling with the question for months. “I hope that whatever decision I make would not have a negative impact on the president’s agenda,” he says. “But that can’t be a part of my decision.”
The bolded part of the above quote are, to me, the reason why Obama has not made any overt moves towards prosecution yet. So all you impatient progressives who think that no immediate action means Obama doesn’t want to investigate may just get what you want, at the expense of health care reform and a good energy bill.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/07/11/holder-now-leaning-toward_n_230057.html
July 11th, 2009 at 5:50 pmOOOPS! Not SHAME – its a SHAM/FRAUD!
Well… it is a shame too, but it is being perpetrated by design, not happenstance.
July 11th, 2009 at 5:50 pm.
Nameplates, underwear and a White House dog…
… “CHANGE” complete.
If this thread comes to a surprise to anyone, then know that the clues to these facts were out there all along, long ago.
Joe,
To answer you question at #6, can we first address Post Facto laws…
… You know, where laws are crafted to get people in trouble AFTER the fact.
Legally, Constitutionally, can laws be crafted to make legal, what otherwise would have been a clear violation of the law?
When Obama signed the Immunization bill as a Senator, we all knew why; He saw his future as the next US President and wanted to secure a precedent for future Administrations to be able to violate the Law. As long as he can persuade(bribe) the next Senate to do what he did; Provide cover for known crimes.
Oops…
… We just stumbled into another law. Accessory TO the fact.
Looks like Constitutional Obama is at odds with President Obama, NO?
.
July 11th, 2009 at 5:51 pmI really do think that Obama still believes the things that he campaigned on, I just think that he lacks that “spine of steel” that Joe Biden said he had.
July 11th, 2009 at 5:52 pmRahm is probably betting on the ‘Publicans’ throwing up a can’t win nominee, so the admin. thinks it’s safe to ignore campaign promises.
Bush never lost his base; we’ll see how Rahm’s strategy works out.
.
Dear President Obama,
PLEASE DON’T FAIL US!
.
July 11th, 2009 at 5:52 pmbilbo – if you think that speculating on the strategies and proclaiming that something positive is actually going to come out of the current inaction and some outright capitulations to the right – that is up to your right.
It is not a persuasive argument, but I hope you are right. Some of us choose not to leave the fate of our democracy up to some baseless hope about larger “strategies.”
You may think you have some additional insights into the working minds of obama and the folks that he answers to, but don’t expect everyone else to believe it.
Even if what you say is true, he would still need the progressive part of his base to provide cover by ensuring there was a robust dialog about the actions that you believe will follow.
So dumping on others as “impatient” when you have no real evidence that your take is valid in any way is rather condescending (not meant as a personal attack, as I am sure you did not mean “impatient” as a personal attack).
July 11th, 2009 at 5:54 pmmystery commentor,
When one campaigns on one platform yet lacks either the will or fortitude to live up to said promises, then the said promises are better knows as HOLLOW PROMISES…
… A-la, “Read my lips…”
.
July 11th, 2009 at 5:55 pmSanto – Your such a Stupid Piece of Shi* Bend over and Kiss Your Own As*
Learn to spell and make a point.
Dipshi*
July 11th, 2009 at 5:56 pmWhen the details finally come into the light, proven mathematical verification will show that mining models attempted generated leads which tagged “innocents”/”false postiives” into buckets of suspects. How the suspect databases were used, monitoried or filtered along with a related critical eye on the means of obtaining the massive data feeding into the programs will ultimately not justify the “well intentioned” end.
Or another way to state the case is that neither math nor a review of “leather hitting the street” will provide shelter for the proponents of the tools and costs for trying to predict such a small probability event such as a terrorist attack or subjective subversive activity.
July 11th, 2009 at 5:57 pmTwo-Three words: No Fly-List
July 11th, 2009 at 5:59 pmMax Anax junius – “at odds” is being very gracious. Thanks for the tact. I don’t want to see a flame war emerge here.
Yes, I have a hard time reconciling being sold out on FISA and retro immunity BEFORE anyone know anything, especially when:
1. He specifically promised not to let immunity pass.
2. He made those promises when it looked like he might be run out of the primaries and he needed cash from progressives
3. Early in the primaries, he was sold to progressives as a “constitutional expert” who understood the complex issues surrounding dur chimpfurhers abuses.
July 11th, 2009 at 5:59 pmJoe,
You know what the meme will be in 2011?
.
.
.
… Let Obama figure it out in his second term.
.
July 11th, 2009 at 5:59 pmso the cow in the clique wants to start flaming…
gee, your only other partner from the flamewar downstairs has been respectful.
But go ahead, attack others for being online today, as if that somehow makes what you say more meaningful…
How come doodle wouldn’t come up here?
July 11th, 2009 at 6:00 pmOh…thank you for going there…and take notice that the SCOTUS is going to have special hearings to quite probably completely remove the limitations on Corporate/Union speech in 9/2009.
They are doing this as a part of delaying a decision on whether a derogatory (sp?) documentary about Hillary Clinton during the 2008 election should be aired. The film was blocked by the lower courts as a violation of previous election law with quite a bit of precedence. Removing this limit will mean that the CORPORATIONS run Amerika with free rein.
To fight this we should rephrase Corporations as GODLESS CORPORATIONS.
If the SCOTUS wants to keep granting special rights to a GODLESS ENTITY that CAN NEVER BE MORAL then the SCOTUS is an enemy of the people and is siding with the GODLESS CORPORATIONS.
July 11th, 2009 at 6:02 pmWell Joe,
I would say that those that spend their time picking at festering blisters are, well…
… Not doing much with theirs.
.
July 11th, 2009 at 6:03 pmSay, between posts, I really did work up a wonderful instrumental guitar arrangement for RAINBOW CONNECTION for a music video…
Hey, do you ever multi-task flaming cow?
It’s kind of jazzy, but not really jazz – beautiful song, want to use the track in a tribute to kermit.
So what’s your excuse for being online flaming today?
July 11th, 2009 at 6:04 pmBriseadh na Faire Says:
[...]… I am more and more convinced that the only way to restore balance will come through armed insurrection.
who’s side do you think THESE GUYS are on?
The militia extremists of the ’90s are back, and organizing quietly in the woods
http://crooksandliars.com/david-neiwert/militia-extremists-90s-are-back-and
betcha it’s not “ours”… … too bad they are so clueless…
probably… just a guess…
July 11th, 2009 at 6:04 pmI actually got some really neat stuff done between posts, but downstairs, I was not going to take the constant flaming from a small group – most of whom either would not come upstairs or decided that being reasonable and tolerant is really the “progressive” thing to do.
July 11th, 2009 at 6:04 pmOnce again this may be a job for someone else, most presumably the DOJ. Last i heard that’s what Obama has said on the subject so far. If the DOJ can expel the bush rouge elements and recover it’s function, there is a chance for politics to survive…
July 11th, 2009 at 6:04 pmAnd we would begin to regain some credibility in the world regarding torture and REAL justice.
July 11th, 2009 at 6:08 pmDid you make an new eco jewelery pieces? For real I am still really interested in seeing the REAL thing…
July 11th, 2009 at 6:09 pmDixie – didn’t hear that, HUGE issues here. Even those that want to flame with anyone that does not tow the line with our leaders today should agree that this is much more important than infighting and flame wars.
I haven’t seen anything, so at your convenience, please post links to more. I know it offends a few, but most of us actually APPRECIATE a few OT posts on critical issues that are breaking.
Probably 95% of EVERYTHING we blog about here can be related to the fact that corporations are given a “free pass” because they are merely shells for owners that cannot be held accountable and it is all based on a sham summary that misrepresents the majority opinion.
July 11th, 2009 at 6:09 pmIt’s odd reading about how Holder (may) want to prosecute and Obama doesn’t. If Holder prosecuted – against the wishes of Obama – and Obama ran against Holder in the primaries in 2012. Then I know who I’d vote for.
O.k. I had to add something. I’m tired of just lurking.
July 11th, 2009 at 6:10 pmPeople who know my other web personality, including the guitar podcast can probably see said tribute to henson and kermit sometime early this fall…
July 11th, 2009 at 6:11 pm.
Don’t mess with Kermit, man!
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x4s155_rainbow-connection_shortfilms
.
July 11th, 2009 at 6:12 pmThanks for adding, rich – lurk if you like, but if you do, you must have noticed that some legitimate progressive perspectives get flamed by a few that proclaim the majority see those posts as heresy.
Its obviously not true that being concerned with what we can objectively see and document means we cannot be part of the dialog, but having you add your reflections is helpful.
July 11th, 2009 at 6:14 pmProudMoron
You are an ignorant, worthless piece of garbage and a stupid punkass troll. No one here or in their right mind cares in the least about your stupid rantings. Why dont you do us a favor and STFU
July 11th, 2009 at 6:15 pmdixie blood Says:
[...] Nacchio further claims that the NSA cancelled a lucrative contract with Qwest as a result of Qwest’s refusal to participate in the wiretapping program.[9]”
i think they all made up and amends…
if i remember accurately, it was Qwest who wired the RNC 08 convention… and possibly the Dem convention too…
i remember seeing the ads, qwest proudly stating that they were the official service at the RNC…
i also remember posting about it here and didn’t even hear crickets…
also, it was the because of that trial for insider trading in April 2007 that the NSA info really hit the fan…
if i remember…
July 11th, 2009 at 6:15 pmJeff Bovine Says:
Anyhow, if anyone needs a good chuckle, I highly recommend Jesus’ General’s punking of a militia freak.
July 11th, 2009 at 5:54 pm
That is frackin’ hilarious, Jeff!
Especially since I live in Idaho. Heh.
July 11th, 2009 at 6:16 pmSeems someone is still trying too hard…
July 11th, 2009 at 6:16 pmThanks for link – I will definitely feature some of that clip (might look for higher-res version and yeah, I know, there are “issues” with doing so).
I want to have a montage of images, not too much of this song though, cuz it will be instrumental without a banjo – wouldn’t that look confusing?
July 11th, 2009 at 6:17 pmlook out – when d-ass starts posting meaningless jibberish, it always ends with him making physical threats that he can’t back up.
I will never understand why anyone thinks that is “progressive”, but a small clique will proclaim that it somehow is.
July 11th, 2009 at 6:18 pmWhen the details finally come into the light, proven mathematical verification will show that mining models attempted generated leads which tagged “innocents”/”false positives” into buckets of suspects. How the suspect databases were used, monitored or filtered along with a related critical eye on the means of obtaining the massive data feeding into the programs will ultimately not justify the “well intentioned” end.
Or another way to state the case is that neither math nor a review of “leather hitting the street” will provide shelter for the proponents of the tools and costs for trying to predict such a small probability event such as a terrorist attack or subjective subversive activity
Ya, just like “topsail” the magical “all seeing eye” turned literal except it’s a collosal waste of money and it’s far more useful as a tool of fascism and abuse of americans than as an intellegence tool.
By cheney’s one percent doctrine every republican office in the country should be shuttered until we all get to the bottom of this.
July 11th, 2009 at 6:19 pmPresident Obama and Attorney General Eric Holder should stop blocking federal criminal investigations into the illegal actions of Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and the CIA, which included torture, murder, war crimes, obstruction of justice and lying to Congress.
July 11th, 2009 at 6:20 pmSince I don’t need an audio track, I can get very clean clips if I locate an old vhs and dub it to mini dv.
I think i actually get a more robust file than pulling off dvd, but some of the audio track sometimes shows up as video, but no big deal to crop out a few pixels along the edge.
July 11th, 2009 at 6:21 pmThanks Joe, I usually just read. The only topic that really pisses me off are ones on racism. My comment above was a way of saying how important it is to (me) prosecute. I can’t understand why it’s taken so long.
Oh I’m sure theres reasons (we’ve heard them all). But I’m sure theres reason Pelosi said impeachments off the table.
Sorry, none of it really flies with me.
July 11th, 2009 at 6:22 pmjust for the record, some of us can spend a very productive day at the computer…
Now if there is rendering to do, that is another story – no multi-tasking then. I try to save when I leave the studio.
July 11th, 2009 at 6:23 pmKnow what you mean about the racism – not much of it here (except by those whose sole purpose was to inflame).
Was a hilarious flame-war the other day though, people arguing over Dr. Kings legacy and what it meant to the gay/lesbian/bisexual community.
Something really obtuse about invoking Reverend King to slander all African Americans as homophobes, but with some, seemed to pass as a perfectly rational thing to do.
July 11th, 2009 at 6:25 pmJeff Bovine Says:
Zooey Says:
Especially since I live in Idaho.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ouch. Poor thing. ;)
July 11th, 2009 at 6:23 pm
Thankfully, it’s not a permanent situation. :)
July 11th, 2009 at 6:26 pm138.Rich H Says: I can’t understand why it’s taken so long. Oh I’m sure theres reasons (we’ve heard them all). But I’m sure theres reason Pelosi said impeachments off the table. Sorry, none of it really flies with me.
Me neither.
It would be enlightening to show the devastation of Iraq, Katrina, Wall Street, and contrast that with the medals of freedom, cash bonuses, and the complete lack of prosecutions and stonewalling.
And nobody went to jail.
July 11th, 2009 at 6:26 pmOh I’m sure theres reasons
Rich – would you agree that, even if there were reasons and it was all part of a “grand strategy”, the dems would need us to cover their backs by keeping a dialog in the foreground?
Being crafty, methodical, and using the element of surprise might sometimes be appropriate, but they would still need us to keep the issues on the radar.
July 11th, 2009 at 6:28 pmDo you think a healthy DOJ and a pragmatic administration can “clean up” a dirty CIA, pentagon? Will there be forces of good from within the CIA and pentagon that can also help with the “clean up”? How about the FBI, are they clean and apolitical enough to help out?
July 11th, 2009 at 6:29 pmObama not only ran as a moderate, he has never pretended to be anything other than a moderate. His first speech on the national scene in 2004 is a declaration of political moderation.
My guess is that he is cognizant of the fact that the last two administrations have been greeted with terrorist attacks in their first months of office. With this in mind, I’m guessing he and his people are being as careful as possible with everything related to the intelligence and law enforcement community. At this point, Congress can conduct investigations with or without the blessing of the Executive Branch. By the time the administration has gotten something accomplished on Heath Care and the economy, maybe congress will be ready with some possible indictments. I can’t imagine Obama trying to obstruct the Justice Dept. if Congress hands them proof that federal laws were broken.
July 11th, 2009 at 6:31 pm145. Ape-Man Says: Do you think a healthy DOJ and a pragmatic administration can “clean up” a dirty CIA, pentagon?
My guess is that at this point, there are black ops, secrets and mini-wars that we will never know about, however, that makes a complicit media even more infuriating since the one thing that a secretive government fears is exposure.
The better the reporters, the more informed the citizenry, the better controlled a rogue government is. I personally don’t believe the death toll of reporters in Iraq was an accident.
Not by any stretch.
July 11th, 2009 at 6:35 pmjeez, joe, would you get off the self-pity horse…
or is the sanctimonious horse…
whatever, we can all read and think for ourselves…
thanks.
July 11th, 2009 at 6:35 pmLast Christmas my brother gave me my first cell phone with a two year plan. Very generous of him, I might add; Unlimited dialing anywhere, to anyone. I’ve done the math of this AT&T plan.
However, and I had to tell my brother and family, why I refused to get a cell phone…
… SPYING and WIRE TAPS of communications IN the USA by the Government.
The first voice greeting was something to the effect, “Know that the NSA is a witness that you did call me on this day. Beep” Needless to say, having an ultra conservative family, none of them were too kind of the message and challenged me to remove it, that it was a baseless claim, how could I accuse our Government of such things, that our Government does what it does for the good of the Nation, etc.
Being conservatives that think Sarah (QUITTER) Palin and Newt (America needs an attack) Gingrich are the end all, cure all that this country needs, I simply said to each of them, “Your loyalty to a Party has left you blind to reality and as a result, has left us with little Rights.” Of course they laughed…
… Then flashed and laughed at a racist American Presidential lineage(You know the one, where all the men are white and the last space is a black man). My response was, “That you find this amusing is quite telling.”
Need I say, politics in my family is rather tenuous, to say the least.
Thought I’d share.
p.s.
Being gay doesn’t help ;/
One guess on equal Rights…
.
July 11th, 2009 at 6:35 pmBottom Line:
Not one long distance carrier is trustworthy with your money or your privacy. They are all scum.
July 11th, 2009 at 6:39 pmgood question, ape-man, I have been careful to not state this directly, but if you will indulge me.
The criminal cabal that assassinated JFK (no, it was not a “lone nut” and posner, abc, and those “computer simulations” are all liars) did not disappear – those political/economic interests are probably stronger than ever.
I will not proclaim I know everything that happened or just who played what role. The federal government, at the highest level, was involved in a cover up. This means there was something to cover up. The cia had a role.
Here is one analysis of the situation (video) – not providing this link as the final word though.
If you haven’t seen it, please take a look. If there is even a thread of truth in anything I have posted or linked to, then the answer to your question is clear:
NO!
July 11th, 2009 at 6:39 pm146. NinerFan Says: I can’t imagine Obama trying to obstruct the Justice Dept. if Congress hands them proof that federal laws were broken.
I’m sorry, but this just does not smell right…
July 11th, 2009 at 6:41 pmI personally don’t believe the death toll of reporters in Iraq was an accident.
Nor was the murder of David Kelly. In fact, there were new revelations this week that he was about to totally blow the lid off all the lies of that illegal war.
July 11th, 2009 at 6:42 pmSucks to be expoosed as a fraud I suppose…
July 11th, 2009 at 6:42 pmFor long distance go encrypted over internet.
July 11th, 2009 at 6:42 pmkaty – not your monkey, scroll by
Believe it or not, don’t care if you read my posts – but thanks for demonstrating who the pompous @ss really is.
July 11th, 2009 at 6:42 pmMax Anax junius – and then their is always the issue of poppin’ your brain like jiffy-pop… /snark
July 11th, 2009 at 6:44 pmIs making things up progressive?
July 11th, 2009 at 6:45 pmRich H Says:
Does anyone believe anything the CIA says?
heard a good joke the other day… on stephanie miller? olbermann?
anyway:
Do you know why the CIA lies to congress?
.
.
.
practice.
July 11th, 2009 at 6:51 pmSpoiling for a fight is not progressive.
July 11th, 2009 at 6:53 pmhanshiro the antlion
Just remember, it’s the same clique that uses Dr. King’s legacy to slander African Americans as homophobes.
July 11th, 2009 at 6:54 pmSo are you saying you buy this crap?I ask again what is this “truth” you speak of? Is it nothing more than that which you wish to read?
July 11th, 2009 at 6:56 pmBefore we descend into round 2 of the flame-fest, the NYT is reporting Cheney ordered the CIA to conceal the CIA “counterterrorism” project.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/12/us/politics/12intel.html?_r=1&hp
July 11th, 2009 at 6:56 pmKaty, just read # 159. That’s a good laugh. I actually worked for a fellow who worked for the CIA. He had a photo of
William Casey on his office wall that said “thanks for all your help with a difficult situation” (or some such). I never asked him what is was for because then
he’d have to kill me!
July 11th, 2009 at 6:58 pmAnother Joe Says:
Just remember, it’s the same clique that uses Dr. King’s legacy to slander African Americans as homophobes.
July 11th, 2009 at 6:54 pm
Please provide specific proof of this.
July 11th, 2009 at 6:59 pm165. Jeff Bovine Says: Sure it is. Cowards afraid to fight are liberals. Good riddance.
You confuse cowardice with discretion. Picking your battles is the domain of wise men, as is knowing the difference.
July 11th, 2009 at 7:00 pmpasses for “progressive” here – hanshiro
not with the majority though
funny thing is – the small minded people that can barely string together one sentence have no idea how easy it is (nor how little time it takes) for others to post more-fully articulated ideas.
I suppose if all I could manage to key was a few disjointed negative phrases that never ran more than 2 lines of text, perhaps I would look at some of the well-stated short proses others write as inherently having required a lot of work.
It is funny, isn’t it – to some mental midgets that probably even key with their faces, seeing timestamps from a commentator that span much of a day must appear to have taken draconian effort.
Silly little trolls, some of us have opposable thumbs and don’t need to key with the projections that come off our faces!
July 11th, 2009 at 7:00 pmI’ll take a pass, z – please see above
NOT YOUR MONKEY!
July 11th, 2009 at 7:01 pmBTW – Richard Cheney broke the letter and intent of the law of the land, and took the Congress out of the intellegence loop himself. well suprise, suprise, i thought it was goerge Bush.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31867022/ns/politics-the_new_york_times/
July 11th, 2009 at 7:01 pmKnowing bullshit when you see it and not accepting it without comment just because it might fit ones needs is more noble…
July 11th, 2009 at 7:02 pmThe thread is downstairs z – was an especially contentious flame-fest yesterday.
July 11th, 2009 at 7:03 pmAnother Joe Says:
I’ll take a pass, z – please see above
NOT YOUR MONKEY!
July 11th, 2009 at 7:01 pm
I get it. You can’t back up your crap. *yawn*
July 11th, 2009 at 7:05 pmThis mellon is cracking open, and just look at the maggotts scramble… oh bush, oh Cheney, oh god why, why, why…
July 11th, 2009 at 7:06 pmYou already started one flame war today, I am not going to engage you in another.
The thread is downstairs – anyone can read it for themselves and decide.
And what you think about it or the conclusions other’s draw really doesn’t matter at all.
July 11th, 2009 at 7:06 pm172. dbadass Says: Knowing bullshit when you see it and not accepting it without comment just because it might fit ones needs is more noble…
I agree. Seeing something you regard that way compels you to state the offending statement and counter it, replete with either sources and links, or ruthless logic.
Drive by comments, however, that don’t directly address anything or anyone appear less than courageous.
July 11th, 2009 at 7:07 pmApe-Man – I prefer the analogy that the bowels can only contain this type of smelly goo for so long, and then their is an EXPLOSION!
And I am not referring to just a lot of stinky hot air.
July 11th, 2009 at 7:08 pmTrolls and flame – and it was such a useful conservation for a while.
“Good-BYE, everybody.” – Dr. Nick Riviera
July 11th, 2009 at 7:09 pmWell Joe,
I always told ‘em my tin foil hat will come in handy…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8IlB_uYdTQ
.
July 11th, 2009 at 7:09 pmhanshiro the antlion – to a small clique, passes as “progressive dialog”
July 11th, 2009 at 7:09 pmAnother Joe Says:
July 11th, 2009 at 7:06 pm
I understand completely. You can’t back up your accusation with anything specific. If you could, you would have done so.
To use your own phrase, “I’m not your monkey.”
July 11th, 2009 at 7:11 pmI’ve come to realize that Obama was given his marching orders upon inauguration as to what he was really supposed to do and not do. Just like all of his predecessors. The super-rich elite, the military industrial complex, the bankers, they only want more money, more power, more control. Why else would Obama so swiftly sweep all of the Bush Administration’s crimes under the proverbial rug?
Nothing is going to change because Americans are well known for their apathy and for their ability to be the most easily frightened populace in the world. States secrets is just a euphemism for all U.S. political crimes are to be ignored. Take a lesson from the recent election in Iran. Iranian citizens seem to smell bullshit much better than we do and immediately took to the streets to show their disapproval even with the threat of death. Unless we are willing to do the same we will never experience real, tangible change, or any Bush era war crimes prosecutions for that matter.
The Who sang it back in the 1960’s, “Meet the new boss, Same as the old boss.”
July 11th, 2009 at 7:12 pmMax, scary part it, they US is not developing that “crowd control” weapon to use against people of color in other parts of the world.
They will just use depleted uranium, phosphorus, or conventional weapons of mass destruction for those people.
Something like this is being developed for use AT HOME!
July 11th, 2009 at 7:12 pmI wouldn’t talk too much about this out of interest for our national security. This administration does a good job governing down the middle and we should be satisfied however little they choose to scale back the program of the previous administration. Reeling it in too much could be a danger and this administration knows this. It’s important to trust your commander in chief.
July 11th, 2009 at 7:12 pmz – what part of “I don’t care” and/or “check it out yourself” and/or “draw your own conclusion” don’t you understand?
July 11th, 2009 at 7:13 pm175.Zooey Says: I get it. You can’t back up your crap. *yawn*
What is with the cranky ‘zoo’ clique? They come in and immediately start insulting people and disrupting the thread….
..glad I turned down their invitation to join a while back. Geezus.
July 11th, 2009 at 7:14 pmthinkcentrist – I can respectfully disagree with the overall meaning of your post, but acknowledge parts of it may have some merits, and let your comments stand on their own merits.
July 11th, 2009 at 7:15 pmAnother Joe Says:
July 11th, 2009 at 7:13 pm
I can sympathize with your dilemma, Another Joe. It must be frustrating for you.
July 11th, 2009 at 7:16 pmhanshiro the antlion – they have their own little blog which they proclaim is a “off shoot” of TP. They can’t flame people there like this, they don’t come back.
So they do it here.
July 11th, 2009 at 7:17 pmhanshiro the antlion Says:
..glad I turned down their invitation to join a while back. Geezus.
July 11th, 2009 at 7:14 pm
TheZoo made an invitation to you? That’s news. Who made that offer?
July 11th, 2009 at 7:17 pmThe secret knock really is shave and a haircut….
July 11th, 2009 at 7:18 pmZooey Says:
Another Joe Says:
Just remember, it’s the same clique that uses Dr. King’s legacy to slander African Americans as homophobes.
July 11th, 2009 at 6:54 pm
Please provide specific proof of this.
He can’t, because it’s his own characterization of what one person said. When that person defended himself by referencing a book written by a gay African-American, AJ mocked him. He also dismissed the notion that there is a deeply conservative streak among Black religious people with a low tolerance for gays and specifically for the notion of gay marriage. A significant number voted in favor of California’s Prop 8, which AJ also denied.
For someone blaming others for “flaming” and claiming moral superiority, making comments like this about the “clique” blaming Dr. King for homophobia sounds like someone going out of his way to start a fight.
July 11th, 2009 at 7:18 pmgummble-bee-itch Says:
July 11th, 2009 at 7:18 pm
Thanks for that, gummitch. No wonder Another Joe is so embarrassed.
July 11th, 2009 at 7:20 pmThe Cheney/Bush perversion of our government appears to be running very broad and deep. A month doesn’t go by that another dark aspect of their governance comes to light. Our government has been transformed in 8 years into a fascist government with a paranoid mindset. I believe Cheney stated that the next President would have very few options but to follow the policies they had set into place. We are now beginning to understand what he meant.
I can’t help to think what it appears from President Obama’s perspective. A government perverted to such a degree that to reconcile anything may stop the critical activities dead in their tracks. What the Cheney/Bush cartel created in 8 years may take more than 7 months to correct. The legal, logistical and practical aspects of the conditions could be overwhelming, let’s hope not.
Cheney/Bush left a literal cesspool behind. It will take a lot of hard work and patience to put our government right. Putting this dynamic duo behind bars is the least of Obama’s problems, although they well deserve it..
July 11th, 2009 at 7:22 pmprogressive dialog = made of stuff?
July 11th, 2009 at 7:22 pmI would have expected the better half to have called out the pretend half…
Oops “made up”. Still one is sincere the other pretend…
July 11th, 2009 at 7:22 pmthinkcentrist – do you believe that?
It’s o.k. if you do, but that’s exactly what got us in trouble with the last Commander in Chief.
July 11th, 2009 at 7:24 pmthinkcentrist Says:
It’s important to trust your commander in chief.
July 11th, 2009 at 7:12 pm
It’s important that we never completely trust any politician.
July 11th, 2009 at 7:27 pmThe little ‘zoo’ clique shows up and the thread goes out the window.
July 11th, 2009 at 7:28 pmDon’t be frightened, hanshiro…
July 11th, 2009 at 7:29 pmsays whom…
July 11th, 2009 at 7:29 pmAnd hanshiro, it’s okay if you can’t answer my question. I understand.
July 11th, 2009 at 7:30 pmFlight at 196, well said.
July 11th, 2009 at 7:31 pm202.Zooey Says: Don’t be frightened, hanshiro…
Don’t flatter yourself, nutjob…
July 11th, 2009 at 7:31 pmTruth and integrity seems a lesser priority of late…
July 11th, 2009 at 7:31 pmwell, made it most of the day – those that read the thread can see who posts innane provocations.
If they think they look “smart” doing it, I don’t care – they are not important, but appreciate the way you have pointed that out today.
July 11th, 2009 at 7:31 pmblog infighting is flaring up. time for obami to throw in a blog czar.
July 11th, 2009 at 7:31 pmhanshiro the antlion Says:
Don’t flatter yourself, nutjob…
July 11th, 2009 at 7:31 pm
Ahhhh, the infamous ad hominem attack you proclaim to despise…
July 11th, 2009 at 7:32 pmAm I to understand that the window is the sideshow of self agreement between a pretender and a mistakenly superior?
July 11th, 2009 at 7:32 pmfunny, isn’t it, how the little clique thinks that posting questions that I usually scroll past somehow gives them the right to proclaim:
You didn’t answer me, so THERE!
must be kids…
July 11th, 2009 at 7:32 pmStill no answer to my question, hanshiro…?
July 11th, 2009 at 7:32 pmgummble-bee-itch, well said at 194.
July 11th, 2009 at 7:33 pmI must miss almost all of their imagined “gotcha” questions cuz it is easy enough to see what the small set of handles involved are and I go to the next post that looks like more than a few disjointed lines of text.
July 11th, 2009 at 7:34 pmAnother Joe Says:
funny, isn’t it, how the little clique thinks that posting questions that I usually scroll past somehow gives them the right to proclaim:
July 11th, 2009 at 7:32 pm
Judging from the sheer volume of your comments, Another Joe, it’s obvious you never scroll past anyone’s comments.
Not that there’s anything wrong with that. We understand.
July 11th, 2009 at 7:35 pmZooey Says:
Still no answer to my question, hanshiro…?
—–
arf!
July 11th, 2009 at 7:36 pmMust be kids…
July 11th, 2009 at 7:37 pm— Like the ones you posted that link to? Come on Moonrise Starship face it you’ve been played…
It’s the children’s hour. The little ‘zoo’ buddies can have the thread since their dialogue won’t yield any useful information, much less trenchant or cogent observations…
Pity.
July 11th, 2009 at 7:38 pmHi the great GOPsby
July 11th, 2009 at 7:39 pmWhat up?
when romney becomes the next ronald reagan the libs will meet in an abandoned warehouse and wind into a massive orgy.
July 11th, 2009 at 7:39 pmhanshiro the antlion Says:
It’s the children’s hour. The little ‘zoo’ buddies can have the thread since their dialogue won’t yield any useful information, much less trenchant or cogent observations…
Pity.
July 11th, 2009 at 7:38 pm
Sorry to frighten you off, hanshiro, but could you answer that question before you go…? Cuz otherwise you risk having people think you’re a liar.
July 11th, 2009 at 7:41 pmGopster – she is a bloggin’ GOD. If she DEMANDS you answer, you better, because….
You know, she is BLOG GODDESS!
If I just scroll by and don’t hear BLOG GODDESS’s demands, does it make a sound when the pope takes a dump in the woods?
And does said excrement piss off the bears?
July 11th, 2009 at 7:41 pmHi the great GOPsby
What up?
—
hi how are you!
July 11th, 2009 at 7:41 pmI thought this thread was massive illegal surveillance and Bush era war crimes. I must have missed the cue that it was tit-for-tat time.
July 11th, 2009 at 7:43 pmhanshiro the antlion Says:
It’s the children’s hour. The little ‘zoo’ buddies can have the thread since their dialogue won’t yield any useful information, much less trenchant or cogent observations…
It is true that none of the “clique” (which appears to mean anyone but you and AJ) can reach your exalted level of discourse. I see that you’ve found a convenient method of not engaging in actual discourse, by simply dismissing others as part of that clique, while you and you bff can proclaim the support of the Silent Majority.
July 11th, 2009 at 7:43 pmthey will slide celery with peanut butter up and down each others butt cracks and wonder aloud , ‘we won it all in 2008, why are we back where we started!?’ and start bawling.
July 11th, 2009 at 7:43 pmNot too bad. Excellent day this day. So what’s your take on all the pretend?
July 11th, 2009 at 7:43 pmForgot to use the preview option. Was “about” massive…
July 11th, 2009 at 7:44 pmAnother Joe Says:
July 11th, 2009 at 7:41 pm
Do you always let others have so much power over you, Another Joe? That’s rather pitiful…
July 11th, 2009 at 7:44 pmSilent majorities are also falsehoods…
July 11th, 2009 at 7:44 pm222. Zooey Says: Sorry to frighten you off, hanshiro, but could you answer that question before you go…?
Get used to disappointment….
July 11th, 2009 at 7:44 pmNot too bad. Excellent day this day. So what’s your take on all the pretend?
—
how nice of you! i’m pon-ti-fi-cating the most socialist and chavez-friendly administration, the most horrific admin of its kind, amid all this pretend chatter!
July 11th, 2009 at 7:45 pmAJ, I just got here. I have four questions for you. I’m not going to take sides of any previous debate here. I just want to see if you can honestly answer these questions.
Do you, or do you not beleive that the Bush administration authorized the program without fully notifying Congress?
And that is an illegal act?
Do you believe there is enough evidence along these lines that warrants further investigation?
Aren’t we a nation of laws above men instead of the other way around?
July 11th, 2009 at 7:47 pmMr. Evil Says:
I thought this thread was massive illegal surveillance and Bush era war crimes. I must have missed the cue that it was tit-for-tat time.
—
do they have naked pictures of me in the shower? audio too? i like to sing journey while i wash my balls, “girl can’t help it”, fyi.
July 11th, 2009 at 7:47 pmthe great GOPsby
July 11th, 2009 at 7:48 pmDo you think Romney will be able to find those golden tablets? I myself don’t usually lose shit like that…
hanshiro the antlion Says:
Get used to disappointment….
July 11th, 2009 at 7:44 pm
That would imply any expectation, wouldn’t it?
I guess you can add “liar” to your resume.
July 11th, 2009 at 7:48 pmtit-for-tat hmmm…
if there are two tits, which one’s the tat?
July 11th, 2009 at 7:49 pmhanshiro the antlion – But the GREAT Z ASKED
What the demand was, I don’t know. Its become pretty easy to spot the lines of space and disjointed text and realize that the post was probably not “well thought out” and came from on of a very small set of commentators.
I am not a grammar nor spelling cop, but at TP, I have learned that most of the time when a commentator post a string text that a first grader could have organized, it is probably time to scroll on to the next post.
July 11th, 2009 at 7:50 pmIf, out of my peripheral vision, the string of text looks like something a human could not say without embelling with a bunch of vocal tics like, ummmmmmmm, dah….. you know….. jump to the next.
July 11th, 2009 at 7:51 pmGOPsby, I’ll gladly pose the same four questions to you:
I have four questions for you. I’m not going to take sides of any previous debate here. I just want to see if you can honestly answer these questions.
Do you, or do you not beleive that the Bush administration authorized the program without fully notifying Congress?
And that is an illegal act?
Do you believe there is enough evidence along these lines that warrants further investigation?
Aren’t we a nation of laws above men instead of the other way around?
July 11th, 2009 at 7:51 pmdbadass Says:
the great GOPsby
Do you think Romney will be able to find those golden tablets? I myself don’t usually lose shit like that…
—
face it, the screaming boppers who voted bami will go conservative just to get romney’s chiseled manliness in the wh. he’s too american to pass up, even in flip-flops!
July 11th, 2009 at 7:52 pmAnother Joe Says:
If, out of my peripheral vision, the string of text looks like something a human could not say without embelling with a bunch of vocal tics like, ummmmmmmm, dah….. you know….. jump to the next.
—
i’m confused much!
July 11th, 2009 at 7:53 pmdbadass #220, You call on greatgopsy and he replys on the next line.
That’s some impressive power you’ve got there.
July 11th, 2009 at 7:53 pmmystery commentor Says:
I really do think that Obama still believes the things that he campaigned on, I just think that he lacks that “spine of steel” that Joe Biden said he had.
Or maybe it’s just that since he’s not a “shoot first and ask questions later” kind of guy, it’s taking him some time to sort out the mess that Bush left him.
Feel free to wash your hands with President Obama. Unfortunately, he’s all we have and if you wash your hands of him, what are you going to do then? If we end up with no health care for all (which will affect me personally in January) because there are so many individuals who are not willing to wait ONE DAMN DAY to get what they want, I’m going to be more than a little pissed at the progressives in this country.
July 11th, 2009 at 7:54 pmWhat the flamers don’t realize, is that English is not written the way it is spoken.
I won’t judge anyone’s level or education or use of language, but at TP I have learned that if, at a glance, a text string does not appear to be something that most could even coherently speak, there is no point trying to read it.
July 11th, 2009 at 7:54 pmHey arn – WELCOME TO THE FUN!
Can’t miss that string of text!
July 11th, 2009 at 7:54 pmthe great GOPsby Says:
Are things a bit slow at your stalker/hate blog?
July 11th, 2009 at 7:55 pmAnother Joe Says:
July 11th, 2009 at 7:51 pm
Told ya.
July 11th, 2009 at 7:55 pmI seem to remember earlier posters here thumping there chests over how bad McCain would destroy Obama.
How many seats has the republican party lost in the last 3 years?
How many “Family Values” politicians in the GOP will be hypocrites?
July 11th, 2009 at 7:56 pmEco jewelery is cool even if you don’t really make it and often spell it incorrectly it…
July 11th, 2009 at 7:56 pmextra it’s are in… As is making stuff up and pretending to be the uber progressive…
July 11th, 2009 at 7:59 pmZooey Says:
hanshiro the antlion Says:
yada yada yada….
Sorry to frighten you off, hanshiro, but could you answer that question before you go…? Cuz otherwise you risk having people think you’re a liar.
Think is not the operative word here Zooey, “know” is the operative word and most of us have known it for a very long time.
July 11th, 2009 at 8:01 pm250
July 11th, 2009 at 8:01 pmSanto Gnende?
hellinabucket – didn’t recognize your handle, you post has the basic form of readable text, I’m game.
1. Likely there was no notification, cia is admiting it lied. Lying cannot be construed as notification.
2. If it was legal, there would have been no need for the hoopla last summer for the FISA bill and retro immunity. They have acknowledged it was illegal so I don’t have to specualate.
3. I don’t know why you state “further” investigation because to date it appears there hasn’t even been a valid initial investigation. Please let me remind you that the rush for retro immunity was completed BEFORE anyone had any idea of what happened. After the immunity, the same crowd said, “We can’t investigate it now!”
4. Nation of laws? Depends on who you are, doesn’t it. The US locks up a higher percentage of its citizens than anyone else in the world – clearly SOMEBODY is being held accountable to the rule of law!
July 11th, 2009 at 8:02 pmsure there are better things to do than flame and bait the backwash that proclaimed mclame/palin was going to trounce obama.
But, the lying liars in the msm did play up the horserace, issuing impossible polls numbers each week that regressed towards the actual outcome – a dishonest tactic to pave the way for elections that are going to be stolen like in 2000 and 2004.
July 11th, 2009 at 8:04 pmDo you, or do you not beleive that the Bush administration authorized the program without fully notifying Congress?
—-
bush contracted with the defense contractors and they are known for their direct contacts with god. they routed the communist regime that was the clinton administration with godliness and let god make his executive decisionry. god chose to do all sorts of things while the greatest president ever was enjoying much needed vacation time. god even signed general officer nominations when bush wasn’t there. so the programmatic structure of our national security was based on the low-key work of the carlyle group’s dispatched god. but god doesn’t like to brag.
—
And that is an illegal act?
–
“one nation under god” means you trust each other before the god, so yes, we follow the law with god as the arbiter, so god is not held to the law. where in the constitution is he so?
—
Do you believe there is enough evidence along these lines that warrants further investigation?
—
look, investigating man gravy on a dress after sweaty butt pounding only cost $30 million. addressing the spirit of america that comes and goes would cost billions. how could the investigators ever catch up to him anyway. one minute he runs the government and defends us from islam and the next he waits in line at subway. his movement is in light years.
—
Aren’t we a nation of laws above men instead of the other way around?
—
is there an easy button on a woman’s behind to this question?
July 11th, 2009 at 8:04 pmBilbo,
I haven’t had any insurance since 2001, nor has my wife and (adult) child.
Anyone really think we’re going to have this fixed please raise your hand.
I don’t mean to be too cynical but I’ve been around long enough to have learned the Dem.’s Always Capitulate or Compromise with the Republicans. To the detriment of every american (and person worldwide if you think about it).
July 11th, 2009 at 8:05 pmAnother Joe Says:
well, made it most of the day – those that read the thread can see who posts innane provocations.
Perhaps you’d take the time to explain why the following doesn’t qualify as “inane provocation”.
Another Joe Says:
hanshiro the antlion
Just remember, it’s the same clique that uses Dr. King’s legacy to slander African Americans as homophobes.
July 11th, 2009 at 8:05 pmI had a really good post going about the CIA and accountability and LIES and my computer farted :/
R E M E M B E R:
It’s only legitimate to claim that the CIA is lying AFTER you say nothing for five years on the matter.
… eh Ms. Pelosi?
In 2004 when the subject of H2O TORTURE came about, Pelosi, knowing she sat in originally, said nothing!
By the end of 2005, election fever set in and the issue was begining to hit the newsies. The issue…
http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/Investigation/story?id=1356870
… And it was up for a debate?
In 2006 President Bush proclaimed, “America does not torture”, silence prevailed, underscoring the legitimacy of Bush’s stance.
… The debate raged on.
2007, 2008, and into 2009… MUM!
WHY?
NOW she’s saying they lied to her?
I didn’t know that lying to members of Congress, specifically the Senate, is legal. But since Ms. Pelosi seems to thing accountability is NOT the way to look forward, I guess lying IS acceptable.
I thought I saw this from a rational standpoint…
July 11th, 2009 at 8:09 pm… Something smells!
Max Anax junius – I agree, nothing in my responses to “4 questions” should be construed as saying dems and obama are without culpability.
Even if we don’t agree on who did what to whom and when, I would hope the fact that people still seem to be proclaiming they don’t even have any idea what happened raises a level of concern that we CAN agree on.
July 11th, 2009 at 8:11 pmturns out cheney is behind the Massive illegal Surveillance and for hiding this from Congress. wow. i thought it would be bush. poor cheney…
July 11th, 2009 at 8:11 pmMax, I’ve never understood the 5 year thing. After all, we’re still prosecuting Nazis.
July 11th, 2009 at 8:11 pmSo for real the great Gopsby, the pretending is getting old. You’re the real deal so tell me what might you wish to discuss? Please don’tlet it have anything to do with Tennessee or Lating Kings cause that gets old too…
July 11th, 2009 at 8:11 pmAnother Joe
—
my responses are pro-american.
July 11th, 2009 at 8:13 pmAnyone who runs on “accountability” and then 2 years later on “transparency” who then, in the case of the former, takes it off the table; in the case of the latter, maintains previous adminstration’s exact same secrecy policies – even entering “friend of the court” briefs in support of them, should be viewed skeptically.
Just my opinion, though, feel free to disagree. You can even post a response. It is readable, others may even be interested in it.
July 11th, 2009 at 8:13 pmZooey: is your blog invite only? I’m interrested…
July 11th, 2009 at 8:13 pmi don’t know anything about latin kings, but TN is sunny with cheap housing. and vitamin d is pro-american.
July 11th, 2009 at 8:15 pmThe Nazi thing is different – that is a powerful analogy that has been used ever since to demonize people and beliefs.
Sure, if they committed war crimes and crimes against humanity, there is no statue of limitations.
Unfortunately, here we are talking about potential criminals that were either given free passes or retro immunity before discovery.
That’s the difference in a nutshell.
July 11th, 2009 at 8:16 pmImportant Breaking News!
Searchers shovel Northwest dirt seeking giant worm
MOSCOW, Idaho – The giant Palouse earthworm has taken on mythic qualities in this vast agricultural region that stretches from eastern Washington into the Idaho panhandle — its very name evoking the fictional sandworms from “Dune” or those vicious creatures from the movie “Tremors.”
July 11th, 2009 at 8:18 pmWell now that we have gotten that taken care of, what’s on yourmind the great GOPsby?
July 11th, 2009 at 8:18 pmActually Joe, #273, I hate using the Nazi comparison. But lying a nation into war, invading a soveriegn nation, killing ten of thousands of innocent people (perhaps ten times that) and displacing millions to refugee status, makes it an apt comparison.
July 11th, 2009 at 8:19 pmArn Gunnutes – thanks for being real clear where you stand on this. Wouldn’t want to see the regular flamers get hold of this and misconsture your setiments.
Or even worse – Z might DEMAND that you face THE INQUISITION!
July 11th, 2009 at 8:21 pmit’s a mocha latte special club that requires a guarded password administered from the home of doodlebug, where she will lecture you about the (her) meaning of progressive, cheapen the word and sound clubby. once ‘progressive’ gets old she will move onto to some onto to some other new club that only she can get into. maybe she’ll accidentally wander into Rev. W’s crib and get boinked.
July 11th, 2009 at 8:23 pmI hate the nazi analogy too, but an AWOL abusive alcoholic/cocaine addict from America’s first family of treason is fraudulently hoisted into the white house via 2 stolen elections…
And then promptly given his very own fake-terrorist attack reichstag – we can’t really compare it to bugs bunny and elmer j fudd.
Have you see THIS VIDEO?
July 11th, 2009 at 8:24 pmSomeone seems to feel inadequate and needs to constantly reinforce their own imagined significance…
July 11th, 2009 at 8:25 pmyou know somethin’ arn, i think you’re f ucken awesome.
July 11th, 2009 at 8:25 pmAnother Joe Says:
Arn Gunnutes – thanks for being real clear where you stand on this. Wouldn’t want to see the regular flamers get hold of this and misconsture your setiments.
Or even worse – Z might DEMAND that you face THE INQUISITION!
Thanks for taking the high road and avoiding any “inane provocation.” Good to know how “real progressives” behave.
July 11th, 2009 at 8:25 pmSomeone seems to feel inadequate and needs to constantly reinforce their own imagined significance…
—-
don’t we all!!????
July 11th, 2009 at 8:26 pmThe Moderate Squad Says:
Zooey: is your blog invite only? I’m interrested…
Not at all. Feel free to drop by any time.
July 11th, 2009 at 8:29 pmmoscow idaho – home of russian potatoes?
July 11th, 2009 at 8:29 pmAnd now a comment…
Because my computer decided to suddenly freeze and fart I had to go back and read what I missed and what I read leaves me with the distinct impression that many of us, yes us(regulars at TP) are more intent on being THE authority on any given subject. As a result…
… Well, the last few threads over the last few days is my proof that in the mess of being correct(read pen!s measuring) we’re forgetting that having several different perspectives on subjects is a good thing and should be welcomed NOT shunned. And just because I have one view on a subject with my own agenda of NOW and ACCOUNTABILITY, does not lessen other’s point of views that maybe NOW is not the right time. And that in the moment the dialogue degrades into ad homonym attacks, name calling and put downs, is where that individual looses credibility in their argument.
So, IF we can put on our thinking hats, maybe, just MAYBE, we can find a way to be able to wrap our narrow minds, at times(yes, me too) into understanding that the wider the conversation gets WITHOUT becoming adulterated with acts of measuring tape being unfurled, the broader our understanding of what we face gets. Scary for some, I know. But can we try?
.
July 11th, 2009 at 8:29 pmrich – you are aware that:
1. prescott bush (chimpy’s granddaddy) helped hitlers rise to power – this is fully documented, in the public record, and not debatable.
2. prescott bush brought nixon into politics and was tricky dick’s mentor
3. bush family has long and documented ties to fascism
July 11th, 2009 at 8:30 pm.
p.s.
I forgot,
Trollish behavior IS the exception.
Operation Flag and Forget should ALWAYS be the norm.
.
July 11th, 2009 at 8:32 pm.
But I do have a great joke(please forgive me):
What is GOPSpit good for…?
.
.
.
… Lubrication in airport men’s rooms.
(bu-dum-pa!)
.
July 11th, 2009 at 8:34 pmmax – its pretty clear that is not what some come here for. If you reread this thread, you can see it was a respectful dialog of diverse opinions most of the day.
Besides, the most virulent posts here now are by Arn Gunnutes – and these seem to be the only ones that generate any appreciation!
There were 2 threads today – first one was a flamefest from the get-go. Second one didn’t become one until the flamers from first thread got there.
I am not blaming anyone or making judgements – just check it out, post by post, if you think differently. Whatever conclusion you draw is up to you.
July 11th, 2009 at 8:35 pmthanks for link #292 – bookmarked it, will come in handy
July 11th, 2009 at 8:37 pmi’ve been blessed with a lot of bush these last forty years.
July 11th, 2009 at 8:38 pmArn Gunnutes – so what is your take on jfk and lyndon johnson?
Only answer if you choose, I have no expectations. I am not going to drag you in front of the inquisition like a self-proclaimed blog goddess who shall remain nameless would.
July 11th, 2009 at 8:39 pmJoe,
Yes I’m aware of the great grand history of the Bush Clan. As far as the Nazi comparison, prior to the Final Solution the Nazis invaded and perfected their blietzkreg attacks in Spain.
I guess that’s where I’m getting (or thinking of) that comparison.
And, while I think of it, what other nation in the past 50 years has caused such a humanitarian crisis? I mean, if you could say. look what France did, or Britain or Australia or something then I could agree that the comparison is not apt, but I fear we stand alone.
July 11th, 2009 at 8:40 pmwell, gopper, if you are telling us that you are a treasonous facist nazi, you certainly have been blessed, haven’t you…
July 11th, 2009 at 8:41 pmI suppose someone no matter how pretend who has been here all day when they should have been making ecojewelery to provide for those three little kids 2 of whom don’t seem to capitalize their names might have an opinion about things no matter how nonobjective…
July 11th, 2009 at 8:43 pmMax Anax junius -1
—
and this one whines about ad hominem attacks!
July 11th, 2009 at 8:43 pmrich – when I was a kid, I used to jokingly dismiss my german heritage by saying, “hey, germans are great, at least if you can overlook starting 2 world wars…”
American history is complex – have you read the book LIES MY TEACHER TAUGHT ME (author’s homepage)
July 11th, 2009 at 8:44 pmFDR wanted to prosecute but Prescott Bush was part of establishing the USO which was a beloved organization for servicemen fighting WWII back then. Had FDR prosecuted then there would have been ramificatons which he couldn’t afford right in the middle of a huge brutal war.
Perhaps Bush did that for some later criminal cover but that would be speculation. I always found it odd that Bush Sr. was involved in the Tsunami Relief thing but can see how that’s how they operate.
July 11th, 2009 at 8:44 pmthat’s it – you’re gettin me riled up db! i’ve not been here all f day, get your f ucken story straight!
July 11th, 2009 at 8:46 pmActually the latest is – Bush is responsible for the massive illegal Surveillance and Cheney is responsible for hiding it from Congress and the authorities.
July 11th, 2009 at 8:48 pmmy story is straight but you might want to talk to someone else here or just drop by any number of galleries carrying their livlihood…
July 11th, 2009 at 8:48 pmMr. Cobb,
I can see Roosevelts reluctance, could have saved us a whole lot of misery though.
July 11th, 2009 at 8:48 pmHey, you aren’t the REAL WILBUR COBB, are you?
July 11th, 2009 at 8:49 pmoh please, johnson started blacklisting protesters. i still think you’re f ucken awesome though, no worries.
July 11th, 2009 at 8:49 pmArn Gunnutes – thanks for sharing, question was asked without expectations for an answer, but I wanted your insight.
July 11th, 2009 at 8:51 pmdoes anyone think lbj was in on jfk assassination?
July 11th, 2009 at 8:52 pmunfortunately, rich, taking the path of least resistance now often creates many more problems later.
Would I be correct in speculating that, in this case, we might be talking about MILLIONS AND MILLIONS of lives that didn’t have to be lost and (adjusted for inflation) BILLION AND BILLIONS that largely benefited the military-industrial complex?
July 11th, 2009 at 8:54 pmArn Gunnutes, but you were born first, right?
July 11th, 2009 at 8:55 pmdoes anyone think lbj was in on jfk assassination?
—-
July 11th, 2009 at 8:55 pmWhy not ask that music teacher… Real change starts at the community level…
Another Joe,
So, when we refer to Bush = Nazi…
… How does that not legitimize this?
http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&safe=off&newwindow=1&sa=1&q=Obama+nazi&aq=f&oq=
Granted, the reasons may differ some, but in reality neither are like Nazism, per say. Both are very, very 21st Century American.
The Administration and it’s Office continues to be disgraced by policies that are wholly unamerican and along with it, so are We, The People. Why? Because we keep looking forward and NEVER reviewing the mistakes made and rectifying them correctly. While Bush may have broken “it”(figuratively speaking) THAT “it” is Obama’s now. What he does with “it” is telling. What I don’t see is the necessary glue and repairmen anywhere in the near future, and THAT frightens me.
.
July 11th, 2009 at 8:59 pmAlright, it looks like I strayed off topic somewhere along the line. But it was easy for me to segue into one (related) topic from another. To me, the illegal spying, the war, the patriot act, are all tied together.
In hopes we’ll get back on track I’m going to excuse myself. See you all later.
July 11th, 2009 at 9:01 pmmax, I am saying that the bush family is was part of the group that brought hitler to power.
Like hitler, chimpy was fraudulently hoisted into a position of leadership and a false flag attack was used to legitimize an illegitimate government. Then they used the fear to dismantle the previous structure of government and citizens rights.
July 11th, 2009 at 9:02 pmIf what you are saying, max, is that today it doesn’t matter who broke it, we need people to step up to the plate and “fix it” – I agree if said remedy includes holding the folks that broke it accountable.
Otherwise, it really isn’t “fixed”.
July 11th, 2009 at 9:04 pmIt is out of Obama’s hands and always has been. The DOJ has the power to move this forward whether the POTUS agrees or not. This is why the judicial branch is independent of the other two branches. Neither the executive nor the legislative branch has the power to stop Holder if he decides to investigate.
July 11th, 2009 at 9:07 pmDear great GOPsby ,
The funny thing is, I called it out for everyone to witness it…
… As a JOKE.
Sorta like a Letterman joke gone NC-17…
July 11th, 2009 at 9:09 pmJoe,
July 11th, 2009 at 9:12 pm“Fixing it” is more than contrived and coerced facts around the policy…
… “Fixing it” entails accountability for even having a hand in it.
Its not a secret anymore bush/cheney are war criminals.
July 11th, 2009 at 9:13 pmThey are fortunate that they live in the US they will get a fair trial. Unfortunatly they wont stand trial. Bush/cheney said they wanted to liberate the Iraqi people. Why dont we do what countries do in the middle east. We know these two murderes are guilty,lets put them before a firing squad where they belong.
majii – sure, if occupant of said office has the backbone to do it. But what if we have another “I don’t recall remembering” gonzo in that office.
July 11th, 2009 at 9:13 pmmax – up
July 11th, 2009 at 9:14 pmO/T: Amendment to DADT could be introduced in Senate this week.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2009-07-11/dont-ask-fight-hits-senate/?cid=hp:mainpromo3
July 11th, 2009 at 9:19 pmdoes anyone think lbj was in on jfk assassination?
Maybe like FDR, and now similar to Obama, he knew there was criminality but didn’t pursue it.
July 11th, 2009 at 9:19 pmThe Moderate Squad Says:
Zooey: is your blog invite only? I’m interrested…
July 11th, 2009 at 8:13 pm
Stop by anytime. See the “About” page for info on getting a Wordpress log-in name. The one you have on TP won’t work there, for some reason. Thanks!
July 11th, 2009 at 9:21 pmAnother Joe,
I am somewhat new to TP, but I have never gone to Zooey’s blog. That means I am not part of the Zooey clique.
I think you have been picking a fight all day Joe. I don’t know why you are, and I don’t care.
I am wondering if you really are “another Joe” the plumber.
July 11th, 2009 at 9:22 pmGawd…
… I think I’m channelling WAYNEBRO today. Forgive me :/
sscncturn64 Says:
While I can recognize the sentiments, I do think anarchy from the People will NOT counter the anarcy We’ve been subjected to for the last decade. We have laws. We need to use them IF We, The People are ever to regain our Democracy and Republic.
July 11th, 2009 at 9:26 pmWe are not a nation of laws. The most fundamental principle of all law is that that law must apply to everyone, equally.
We know that the law has been violated in dozens of ways by Bush and Cheney and probably by dozens of their cronies. If the laws are not applied to them, then those laws do not apply to any of us.
By my definition, we are currently in a state of anarchy.
July 11th, 2009 at 9:35 pmLevi the Dungbeetle Says:
I am somewhat new to TP, but I have never gone to Zooey’s blog. That means I am not part of the Zooey clique.
July 11th, 2009 at 9:22 pm
I was wondering what the requirements were for this mythical “clique.” :-D
July 11th, 2009 at 9:35 pmLevi,
July 11th, 2009 at 9:38 pmMy point exactly. Anarcy IS the problem…
… The Rule of Law is THE answer.
Levi the Dungbeetle Says:
July 11th, 2009 at 9:35 pm
You may be right, Levi, but I think the ruling class will find a way to enforce laws against the rest of us.
July 11th, 2009 at 9:39 pmOh, oh, oh, Levi,
July 11th, 2009 at 9:40 pmThen is storming the Bastille on the table?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyLZuHIR3JE
Another Joe Says:
ummmmmmmmm….
Burns….
A little secret for you…
A group of 19 makeshift gang wannabes with boxcutters did not defeat the most powerful air control and military systems in the world in cahoots with an old cia asset on a dialysis machine in a cave half-way across the world.
Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh…
There is residues of thermite at the twin-towers site. It was an inside job.
**************
Oh I completely agree, Joe. 9/11 is as much of an inside job as a receptionist. Wow, what a terrible joke. Anyway, my questions were rhetorical. I know presidents aren’t given any sort of “insider knowledge,” though they’d like others to think that just to keep them in line. Ooooo state secrets… *mysterious*
How do they explain the molten metal pools DAYS after 9/11? How do they explain the “demolition style” collapse? How do they explain the dubbed bin Laden tape?
July 11th, 2009 at 9:41 pmZooey,
I can understand Joe’s point, because groups of people that are familiar with each other do tend to flock together. I have seen that everywhere online.
I spent way to much time today reading that stupid flame war. I think you both owe me a Saturday afternoon. I just found Joe to be pushing your buttons without a whole lot of provocation.
If it were up to me, I would rule in favor of Zooey. But then if it were up to me, I would crucify Bush and Cheney on the White House front lawn, and have it carried live on every channel. Aren’t you glad it’s not up to me?
July 11th, 2009 at 9:43 pmJust like everything else chimpy touches MIS goes to shit too; I know the program wasn’t facilitated, managed or maintained. Just like everything else in his pamperedtard life, jit was used to produced outcomes oh his behalf.
And there’s more! Much worse and much more.
July 11th, 2009 at 9:45 pmListen to the audio tapes between LBJ and Hoover right after the assassination and see if you can tell that there’s something “there” in the conversation between the two that they’re not mentioning but suspect. Maybe that’s where the term “plausible deniability” came from. Seems maybe that way to me.
LBJ also says something like, “I wasn’t any part of the targeting, was I?” and Hoover says “no” and you can tell that LBJ is relieved and doesn’t want to touch it anymore.
July 11th, 2009 at 9:47 pmLet’s put it this way, Chaney and Bush make Nixon look like a choir boy. In my 42 years I have never seen such a corrupt group of miscreants in my life.
July 11th, 2009 at 9:50 pmWhen I say we are in a state of anarchy that doesn’t mean the police won’t punish you for committing a crime. I simply mean that you are under no ethical obligation to obey the law.
I am not a lawyer, but I believe this is the basis for British common law, and it is the fundamental basis for why the people choose to obey the laws created by their representatives. Obama is a lawyer, and a constitutional law professor at that. You can be certain he knows the very basis of all our laws is at stake here.
As for a storming of the Bastille, I am certain that we can be a lot more creative that that. We have this new tool called the Internet, and when we learn how to use it, we will change the world.
July 11th, 2009 at 9:51 pmLevi the Dungbeetle Says:
Aren’t you glad it’s not up to me?
July 11th, 2009 at 9:43 pm
Absolutely! :D
I’ll see what I can do about that afternoon. Speaking only for myself, I promise not to engage in anymore flame wars. It’s a total waste of time.
July 11th, 2009 at 9:51 pmZooey,
“I was wondering what the requirements were for this mythical “clique.” :-D”
I thought you always had to have a big (and sincere) smile.
July 11th, 2009 at 9:53 pmLooks like ol’ Gonzales just got popped red handed in the big lie to Congress. The one time that Gonzales failed to claim he “doesn’t recall”…
July 11th, 2009 at 9:54 pmAnother Joe Says:
max, I am saying that the bush family is was part of the group that brought hitler to power.
Like hitler, chimpy was fraudulently hoisted into a position of leadership and a false flag attack was used to legitimize an illegitimate government. Then they used the fear to dismantle the previous structure of government and citizens rights.
Did you catch Rachael’s show last night about the repugs’ k street house? They love themselves some hitler.
July 11th, 2009 at 9:54 pmDamn, I just timed myself, I was only away for 51 minutes. I guess that’s o.k. since all I’ve been doing is cleaning and laundry (and posting) today.
July 11th, 2009 at 9:56 pmRich H Says:
Zooey,
“I was wondering what the requirements were for this mythical “clique.” :-D”
I thought you always had to have a big (and sincere) smile.
July 11th, 2009 at 9:53 pm
Sounds good to me — the clique must be huge!
July 11th, 2009 at 9:58 pmHi Zooey, May I have the link to your blog? I saw a few comments where TP`rs asked you about it. I dont know if you posted it here tonight and im to lazy to look through 300 plus posts. Thankyou.
July 11th, 2009 at 10:00 pmYou might be a progressive if you have your own blog…..
July 11th, 2009 at 10:00 pmsscncturn64,
Go here, or click on my name. :)
July 11th, 2009 at 10:01 pmShit, time to change the secret knock…
July 11th, 2009 at 10:02 pmOops…
… Big elephant in the room time:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcQJSFJKvy0
… works for Goldman Sachs!?!?!
Now, what did Spitzer say about Goldman Sachs again?
http://www.slate.com/id/2214407/?from=rss
I think that Rooster has a funny looking furry red tail.
July 11th, 2009 at 10:02 pmMaybe the zoo has more than two topics on a weekend….
*whistles innocently*
July 11th, 2009 at 10:03 pmLevi the Dungbeetle Says:
Maybe the zoo has more than two topics on a weekend….
*whistles innocently*
July 11th, 2009 at 10:03 pm
I put up more than two things today. :-)
July 11th, 2009 at 10:04 pmThis isn’t news, it’s what the Cheney/Bush Adm. did for 8 years, and lied about it daily. We have yet to see all the things they did doing their “REIGN OF POWER”. But, as always the “TRUTH”, will come to light. It always does, no matter what they try to do to “SUPPRESS” it,
July 11th, 2009 at 10:16 pmThankyou Zooey, I just finished setting up my account.
July 11th, 2009 at 10:23 pmIm sure its going to be fun.
sscncturn64,
Look for us on the thread with the word “cesspool” in the title.
July 11th, 2009 at 10:26 pmWow, I cant beleive your getting the whiteout treatment Zooey.
July 11th, 2009 at 10:26 pmsscncturn64 Says:
Wow, I cant beleive your getting the whiteout treatment Zooey.
July 11th, 2009 at 10:26 pm
The what…?
July 11th, 2009 at 10:28 pmWhiteout, Where you told me to click on your name or click “Here”. When I came back to TP your name and “Here” were gone.
July 11th, 2009 at 10:34 pmUm, What is going on? I just stepped in and I am totally lost.
July 11th, 2009 at 10:37 pmHow weird. Links are funny on TP sometimes…
July 11th, 2009 at 10:38 pmsscncturn64,
July 11th, 2009 at 10:44 pmA funny thing happens here at TP…
… When the thread reaches maximum capacity X warp speed one experiences browser lag and Link white outs. It usually occurs around post #290 +/- 10 posts.
Over 1 million U.S. citizens were put on Bush’s “No Fly” list, because these people were judged to be a threat to the flying public.
Per IG report, over 8 million U.S. citizens were deemed a threat and kept under surveillance per Bush’s PSP.
This probably indicates that 1 out of every 8 on Bush’s PSP list often flew commercially and thus ended up on the “No Fly” list.
Also per the IG report, we learn that the Bush administration was conducting extensive domestic spying on U.S. citizens, without any warrant authority, primarily through the extensive use of “security letters” which multiple telecom companies must have received…which may explain Bush lawyers deciding that FISA didn’t apply because domestic spying was involved, thus not falling under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act.
This is just the latest conservative incarnation of Nixon’s domestic “enemies list” with the Bush administration beginning their “enemies list” compilation after they entered office in 2001, months before the 9/11 attacks. Any bets on whether members of ACORN were placed on this right-wing-generated “enemies list,” as well as many Democratic Party officials, with anyone else deemed a “threat” to the neo-con Republican agenda, anyone that might stand in the way of the neo-cons establishing a “permanent Republican majority”?
Of course, having a Democrat in the White House as president has caused a temporary disruption in this long-range conservative Republican fascist plan for America. The right-wing groups that applauded every power grab by the neo-con Republicans in the Bush administration now are scared that Bush’s PSP domestic spying will be turned around and directed toward them and their activities by Obama’s DOJ, NSA, DHS and CIA.
However, I don’t want to give the impression that the Bush administration turned their back on the threat presented by some of their more loony, arch-conservative followers. Scattered news reports over the past eight years indicate that Bush’s DOJ/FBI were keeping an eye on right-wing militias and any potential terrorists/killers in the rabidly anti-abortion evangelical movement. Conservative wingnuts WERE investigated, arrested and prosecuted, but the Bush administration (and the lap-dog right-wing MSM) downplayed this right-wing extremism trend.
For isntance, following the initial, lethal anthrax mailings shortly after the 9/11 attacks, there was a flurry of copycat terrorist mailings, primarily directed toward liberal, progressive organizations and individuals, indicating that thousands (if not tens of thousands) of right-wingers were responsible. (Note: CNN ran a bottom-screen news blurb in mid-December 2001 stating that the FBI, at that time, was conducting 15,000+ investigations into terrorist-related mailings. It ran for less than thirty minutes, then disappeared, with no further mention, anywhere, being made since then. Another right-wing cover-up???).
Sadly, at least for the time being, it appears that the Obama administration has decided, for political expediency, that they’re going to let the previous Republican administration’s crimes, lies and cover-ups slide, obstructing justice just as much as Scooter Libby did in the Valerie Plame Wilson affair.
July 11th, 2009 at 10:47 pmIs it just me experiencing this? Names not being shown.
July 11th, 2009 at 10:51 pm#362 Im pretty sure her name starts with the last letter in the alphabet. What do you see?
sscncturn64 Says:
Is it just me experiencing this? Names not being shown.
#362 Im pretty sure her name starts with the last letter in the alphabet. What do you see?
Zooey, with a link to the Zoo.
July 11th, 2009 at 11:02 pmGame of Life, not K, but C Street House:
Bruce Wilson.Posted: July 11, 2009 11:26 AM
Ensign’s “C Street House” Owned By Group Touting Plans For Christian World Control
Huffpost .
In video, organization behind C Street House details plan for control of seven key sectors of society.
Most recently covered by MSNBC’s Rachel Maddow (1, 2), Washington D.C.’s “C Street House” has over the past two weeks become the center of a media firestorm. Along with GOP Senator Tom Coburn, sex-scandal embroiled GOP leaders Senator John Ensign and South Carolina Governor Mark Sanford have been tied to the row house, assessed to be worth 1.84 million dollars, which is registered as a church and provides Washington politicians with substantially lower than market rate rent. Coburn and Ensign have lived at the C Street house, while Sanford has participated in its Bible study group.
According to the Washington Post the house is owned by Youth With a Mission D.C. Youth With a Mission is one of the most extensive Christian fundamentalist para-church organizations on Earth, and YWAM founder leader Loren Cunningham has publicly outlined a vision for Christian world-control.”
July 11th, 2009 at 11:13 pmsscncturn64,
July 11th, 2009 at 11:17 pmI have the updated Windows Vista browser and every one’s post is either a one or a zero. Grrrrr… damn you Bill Gates!(shakes fist at sky). I need to roll back…
… But the links don’t white out anymore. :?
Max, I get 1 or 0 treatment all the time, and sometimes it drops the recommend option as well
July 11th, 2009 at 11:19 pmMax Anax junius -1 Says:
sscncturn64,
I have the updated Windows Vista browser and every one’s post is either a one or a zero. Grrrrr… damn you Bill Gates!(shakes fist at sky). I need to roll back…
… But the links don’t white out anymore. :?
Try a different browser. I would suggest Firefox, but I’m having my own issues with 3.5 and am transitioning over to Google Chrome. Or try Opera.
July 11th, 2009 at 11:20 pmI’ve found Mozilla Firefox is best for dealing with TP.
July 11th, 2009 at 11:22 pmInspectors General Confirm Bush Admin Carried Out Massive Illegal Surveillance, More Than Previously Known
You mean the same one pelosi, obama, etc all signed on to? LOL!
July 11th, 2009 at 11:22 pmMod Squad,
July 11th, 2009 at 11:36 pmAnd the lag is ….
… forcing me to FireFox, UGH!!!
July 11th, 2009 at 11:37 pmI hope AG Holder starts the investigation soon I have been waiting for this day to come and even looking further for their day of judgement. Should we get ready for next weeks “Lying Cheney and Liz road tour?”
Will they ever look into or obtained Cheney and Bush’s hard drive?
July 11th, 2009 at 11:41 pmMax Anax junius -1 Says:
… forcing me to FireFox, UGH!!!
Chrome is better and faster but I also use Opera.
July 11th, 2009 at 11:41 pmMax Anax junius -1 Says:
… forcing me to FireFox, UGH!!!
July 11th, 2009 at 11:37 pm
I haven’t tried Chrome or Opera, they might be excellent as well. :D
July 11th, 2009 at 11:44 pmAhhh…
… Much better.
I can see numbers now, the strain is gone,
I can see all obstacles in my way
Gone are the white outs that had me blind
It’s gonna be a bright (bright), bright (bright)
Lag-Free day.
:)
July 11th, 2009 at 11:45 pmYou’re hilarious, Max.
July 11th, 2009 at 11:48 pmranus69,
You mean this…
NEWSWEEK: Holder ‘May be on Verge’, ‘Leaning Toward Appointing’ Torture Prosecutor
Is Obama’s AG finally ready to keep his April ‘promise’ to protesters?…
By Brad Friedman on 7/11/2009
http://www.bradblog.com/?p=7297
I have an audacious amount of hope!
July 11th, 2009 at 11:51 pmZooey,
July 11th, 2009 at 11:51 pmThanks.
“I have the updated Windows Vista browser and every one’s post is either a one or a zero.”
Max, I had the same problem for a while, too, but Wayne switched my computer to FireFox and it went away. And I used to also get the name whiteout. I found that if I clicked at the beginning of where the name was supposed to be, and highlighted along that line, I could read the name. (Of course, in many instances, I could tell who was posting by their style.)
July 11th, 2009 at 11:53 pmsorry im late to the party but could everyone please join me in a big collective “WELL NO SH!T!!!!!”
I really think we are just at the entrance to the rabbit hole here.
July 11th, 2009 at 11:59 pmJane,
Is that why you never responded to my rants?
LOL j/k :)
It’s…
July 12th, 2009 at 12:00 am… it’s just that Windows is like heroin.
Max, thanks for that link.
Man, I hope he comes through on this. The back and forth is wearing…
July 12th, 2009 at 12:00 am.
SICKO
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6646340600856118396&hl=en
.
July 12th, 2009 at 12:56 amRepublicans Love Facts Says:
Inspectors General Confirm Bush Admin Carried Out Massive Illegal Surveillance, More Than Previously Known
You mean the same one pelosi, obama, etc all signed on to? LOL!
______________
Uh… perhaps they referring to THIS massive illegal surveillance program instead…
http://www.nytimes.com/glogin?URI=http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/12/us/politics/12intel.html&OQ=_rQ3D1Q26hp&OP=52047a7cQ2FQ519KQ7BQ51LQ23(Q5CpQ23Q23fGQ51Gqq2Q51qaQ51gGQ51PQ5CQ51lQ23.5f5(Q5CQ51gG5DfK.XdfQ3B.
Cheney Is Linked to Concealment of C.I.A. Project
By SCOTT SHANE
Published: July 12, 2009
The C.I.A. was said to have withheld information about a secret counterterrorism program from Congress for eight years on orders from the former vice president.
________________
…you know… the one Cheney ordered them to keep quiet about…
LOL… LOL… LOL…
July 12th, 2009 at 12:56 amI have a feeling pelosi and reid will be putting a damper on this, soon!
July 12th, 2009 at 12:58 amRepublicans Love Facts Says:
I have a feeling pelosi and reid will be putting a damper on this, soon!
_______________
You mean the program Cheney told everyone to keep quiet about?
July 12th, 2009 at 12:59 amYou mean the program Cheney told everyone to keep quiet about?
Doesn’t say much for the (d)’s, does it? Cowards?
July 12th, 2009 at 1:12 am.
Published on Saturday, July 11, 2009
by CommonDreams.org
Practically on the Table
by Ralph Nader
http://www.commondreams.org/view/2009/07/11
Of course Congressman,
July 12th, 2009 at 1:14 amWITHOUT your support, you’re ensuring that it won’t happen.
p.s.
I guess possibilities of “Yes we can” has become “It’s just not practical”.
.
July 12th, 2009 at 1:18 amDear Republican Loves Facts,
“Doesn’t say much for the (d)’s, does it?”
What…
… That they went along with the Republican plan?
I prefer to look at it this way…
July 12th, 2009 at 1:33 am… It takes two, baby.
Republicans Love Facts Says:
You mean the program Cheney told everyone to keep quiet about?
Doesn’t say much for the (d)’s, does it? Cowards?
_____________
Hmmm… if Cheney told the CIA to be quiet about, how could the Dems have known about it?
Reading comprehension problem on your part, or just, well… ya know… stupid?
And of course, your intense desire to mock the Dems brings up an interesting point…
Are you frustrated w/ the Dems because they DON’T push back harder against things like this, once they do know?
Or… do you wholeheartedly support illegal wiretapping?
Is that a bit Stalinist of you?
Or does it just give you a pleasant throbbing sensation in your trousers to come here and give people a hard time, w/ no real point to make?
July 12th, 2009 at 1:34 am.
In case you missed it…
July 10, 2009
Bill Moyers looks at the influence of money and lobbying on health care reform efforts in Washington, D.C.
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07102009/watch.html
With almost 20 years inside the health insurance industry, Wendell Potter saw for-profit insurers hijack our health care system and put profits before patients. Now, he speaks with Bill Moyers about how those companies are standing in the way of health care reform.
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07102009/watch2.html
Yes we can…
… Or just not practical?
Seems to me that it’s just not practical to stay on the course we are on and instead, YES! we must find a better way. Why isn’t Congress on the side of The People?
July 12th, 2009 at 2:00 amAs I have always said, G. W. Bush will go down in history as the most corrupt Pres9ident in the history of our nation. He out-illegals Nixon by miles. The truly sad thing is that he has no remorse for how he mucked our country. He has cost Republicans dearly and many believe the Republican legislature was complicit. In precinct meetings all over the country, Republicans are scratching their heads in horror, unable to understand their own demise at the hands of Bush. We even keep hearing more unsavory stuff about Bush so it is not going away soon.
July 12th, 2009 at 2:02 amOT
6,000 patients who may have been exposed to hepatitis C by a painkiller-addicted technician who had the disease and allegedly passed on dirty syringes to patients.
I lived in Denver at one time and know of Rose Med. center. RMC is offering free lab tests.
To all those exposed: Get an independent test.
The law suits will surely begin and I would not trust RMC or any other for profits business to do the right thing.
July 12th, 2009 at 2:27 amBush’s presidency was nothing but a business opportunity
for war profiteers and his other greedy corporate friends.
But what would you have expected from pirates?
The ’scariest stuff’, mar2RR, is that they are all not only
July 12th, 2009 at 2:47 amstill in business, but right where they want to be.
This might be a case of left wing fear mongering.
Whenever the CIA wants to pwnd a politician, they can. ANYTIME. They use the word “scare”, which is what the CIA does to get what they want. Its not really going to go anywhere. There is no chance that police will start rounding up 8 million people. they might get a million before they other 7 go nutzo. common sense, most intelligence is in-actionable. which is why low priority surveillance is meaningless,
July 12th, 2009 at 3:54 amThe few people still willing to defend the Bamanator are reduiced to saying 1) he’s better than McCain (an increasingly dubious proposition), or 2) he was always just a moderate Democrat, so what the heck?
But let’s not insult moderate Democrats. Consider:
And so on. Of course, these questions are rhetorical. Never has a Democrat so quickly and utterly ignored his mandate and betrayed his base. I love the guy, but he’s obviously a neocon. :(
July 12th, 2009 at 5:55 amObama, Pelosi, Frank, Reid, adnauseum –
1 – Immunity for illegal wire-tapping companies
2 – Giving our tax dollars to crooked banks and speculative companies
3 – Increasing war in Afghanistan and Pakistan
4 – No prosecutions for torture
5 – Supports criminal activities by Israel
6 – Blatant lies about Russia-South Ossetia-Georgia conflict
7 – Retains right to permanently imprison acquitted prisoner
8 – Supports CoDex Alimentarius
9 – Supports GMO foods
10- Amnesty to foreigners living in this country without proper documents
11- Obama increasing the military budget
12- Obama still supports NAFTA
13- Keeping troops in Iraq to protect oil
14- Wanting Pharmaceuticals and insurance companies to run a “health care” plan.
Obama is just another imperialist, oblivious to his own nation’s crimes and incapable of reflecting the concept of self-determination and sovereignty of weaker nations. He and the corporate Democrats, like Republicans go where monetary and power is, and simply put, it is not with anti-war, hippies, environmentalists, workers, and small business owners. He will throw a few bones at the Progressive base that elected him to make them think he will eventually “Change”, and of course, it never will. Is this any different than Bush’s promises to the warrior hijacked Christian religion, that turned the Prince OF Peace into a crazed shaven head marine?
Obama is Bush with a new paint job.
July 12th, 2009 at 9:22 amC’mon TP, you’re getting a bit lazy with the stories – give me something interesting to read, because the right-wingers are giving me the fantods with all this Obama=Bush bullsh!t. Half of them don’t even know the meanings of the words they’re using.
July 12th, 2009 at 10:04 amGo O’Bush!
July 12th, 2009 at 10:11 amBrain From Planet Arous Says:
Obama, Pelosi, Frank, Reid, adnauseum –
So, please tell us, would you rather have had McCain as our President? President Obama is here for 4 years. Tearing him down every chance you get because you may not understand why he is doing something or because he isn’t moving fast enough on your pet peeves isn’t going to do any of us any good. If we throw President Obama under the bus, what do we have? The answer is NOTHING. And when we have NOTHING, then NOTHING gets done. This country is in serious trouble and if nothing gets done, we may not survive as a nation.
July 12th, 2009 at 11:36 amRepublicans Love Facts Says:
Inspectors General Confirm Bush Admin Carried Out Massive Illegal Surveillance, More Than Previously Known
You mean the same one pelosi, obama, etc all signed on to? LOL!
Maybe you can tell us how the Democrats could have signed on to something they knew nothing about.
July 12th, 2009 at 11:43 amRepublicans Love Facts Says:
Doesn’t say much for the (d)’s, does it? Cowards?
July 12th, 2009 at 1:12 am
Frankly, it says even less about Republicans.
July 12th, 2009 at 11:54 amGee, if President Obama says that we must look forward, and must not look backward, does that mean that we will no longer be prosecuting bank robbers, because their crimes are in the past? Or does it mean that we will no longer prosecute any crimes, because they were all committed in the past? This “look forward” crap is idiotic and stupid, to say the least. Investigate and prosecute Bush regime crimes including torture, treason, war crimes, obstruction of justice and lying to Congress.
July 12th, 2009 at 12:52 pmBarack Hussein Obama
Acccessory After the Fact
July 12th, 2009 at 2:24 pmWhat ever happened to the CHANGE WE CAN BELIEVE IN or the CHANGE WE CAN COUNT ON? Just a whole lot of security, photo-ops, meetings, dinners, parties, and no change. Obama doesn’t have time for change. It feels like the war criminal idiot is still in power!
July 12th, 2009 at 2:39 pmChange?
climate bill
Healthcare
Closes gitmo
ends active military in Iraq
Seems like he’s already doing a lot of the stuff he Said he was going to do. I’d much rather have palin quitting alaska than if she was quitting VP right now. I think america made a good pick. The right doesn’t realize that if palin quit VP nancy would be second in line. brew on that one.
July 13th, 2009 at 4:01 am