Holder ‘leaning toward appointing a prosecutor to investigate’ Bush admin’s torture policies.
Holder ‘leaning toward appointing a prosecutor to investigate’ Bush admin’s torture policies.
In April, President Obama revised his position on whether to appoint a special prosecutor to investigate the Bush administration’s use of torture. After initially stating “that we need to look forward as opposed to looking backwards,” Obama said “that is going to be more of a decision for the Attorney General within the parameters of various laws, and I don’t want to prejudge that.” Yesterday, Newsweek’s Daniel Klaidman reported that Attorney General Eric Holder “is now leaning toward appointing a prosecutor to investigate the Bush administration’s brutal interrogation practices”:
These are not just the philosophical musings of a new attorney general. Holder, 58, may be on the verge of asserting his independence in a profound way. Four knowledgeable sources tell NEWSWEEK that he is now leaning toward appointing a prosecutor to investigate the Bush administration’s brutal interrogation practices, something the president has been reluctant to do. While no final decision has been made, an announcement could come in a matter of weeks, say these sources, who decline to be identified discussing a sensitive law-enforcement matter. Such a decision would roil the country, would likely plunge Washington into a new round of partisan warfare, and could even imperil Obama’s domestic priorities, including health care and energy reform. Holder knows all this, and he has been wrestling with the question for months. “I hope that whatever decision I make would not have a negative impact on the president’s agenda,” he says. “But that can’t be a part of my decision.”
The AP’s Nedra Pickler confirms that Holder is considering appointing a special prosecutor and that he “will make a final decision within the next few weeks.”
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I only hope there is enough room in the Federal prison system to house all of the Bushies who deserve to be there.
July 12th, 2009 at 10:01 amI hope that’s true. Glenn Greenwald is not that optimistic…
http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2009/07/12/holder/index.html
July 12th, 2009 at 10:03 amMaybe we learned the lessons of WWII. They investigated war crimes, held trials, did not suppress evidence, even created museums documenting man’s inhumanity to man (as ordered by government entities).
July 12th, 2009 at 10:05 amAfter reading the Greenwald piece, maybe we didn’t learn much from WWII.
July 12th, 2009 at 10:06 amSince when is breaking the law considered up for debate? Several people from the former administration have already admitted that they authorized/approved/directed torture, which goes against our laws as well as international law.
Begin an investigation, and take it where it needs to go, regardless of who or what is exposed.
We the People must hold our leaders accountable.
PEACE
July 12th, 2009 at 10:07 amHolder
Nothing other than a CRIMINAL PROSECUTOR will do…….End of story.
July 12th, 2009 at 10:10 amcynicalgirl Says:
I hope that’s true. Glenn Greenwald is not that optimistic…
http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2009/07/12/holder/index.html
Great. Another “few bad apples” investigation?
July 12th, 2009 at 10:14 amI’ll believe these trial balloons when I actually see something come of them. Currently, there seems to be absolutely no enthusiasm at all in the Obama Administration to resume the United States’ former position as a nation of laws. And as long as the president feels he has the right to determine which laws will be enforced and which crimes will be prosecuted, and which of our citizens is immune from being held responsible for their actions, we will remain, legally speaking, the next thing to a banana republic.
I find the oddest thing about my feelings on the rule of law is how they are characterized today. Some of my friends criticize my insistence on investigation and prosecution of war crimes and other violations of U.S. and international laws during the Bush Administration, contending I’m nothing but a liberal who wants vengeance against Republicans. Back in the 1960s when I thought those who blew up buildings and trashed college campuses ought to have been prosecuted, I was criticized and labeled a lackey of the right wing. On the other hand, maybe consistency really IS the hobgoblin of little minds.
July 12th, 2009 at 10:27 am“I hope that whatever decision I make would not have a negative impact on the president’s agenda,” he says. “But that can’t be a part of my decision.”
Damn right it can’t. The law is the law. If a possible ‘negative impact on the president’s agenda” is part of Holder’s decision, then he’s no better than the Regent U grads who took over the Justice Department.
July 12th, 2009 at 10:29 amI have a feeling right before the 2012 election we’re going to see some action and President Obama’s 2nd term is going to be more fruitful! This is why we need to get on the fast track in electing more Democrats to the Senate over the next few years.
July 12th, 2009 at 10:31 amI guess as O’s approval ratings continue to drop , the option of “investigating” Bush becomes more attractive
July 12th, 2009 at 10:32 amInvestigate, prosecute and incarcerate….NOW!!!
July 12th, 2009 at 10:33 amPresident Obama has always said he will do what the people want. If he’s not hearing from us on this issue then he will think we don’t care. We need to contact him…
Via email
http://www.whitehouse.gov/contact/
Via Mail
The White House
1600 Pennsylvania Avenue NW
Washington, DC 20500
Phone Numbers
Comments: 202-456-1111
July 12th, 2009 at 10:33 amSwitchboard: 202-456-1414
FAX: 202-456-2461
We’ll take any reason at this point. ;-)
July 12th, 2009 at 10:34 ampopatop may have a point – not that Obama’s approval are a “crisis” for him nor do they even approach the way chimpy’s approval fell off the table from the most popular in US history (after false-flag terrorist attack) to most unpopular.
The administration has proclaimed it wont’ go there, but Holder can, if he has the courage and resolve. And, yes, perhaps Obama’s statements about “going forward” are a strategy to provide cover for Holder.
Who knows.
But holding the criminal cabal behind dur chimpfurher has to be a good thing for this nation.
July 12th, 2009 at 10:35 amHolder ‘leaning toward appointing a prosecutor to investigate’ Bush admin’s torture policies.
I will believe it when I see the Bush administration charged and taken to court.
So far I have only seen Obama’s administration and the DOJ trying to hide the offenses and defend them in court. Frankly, I have been sorely disappointed so far with this administration’s ability just to do the right thing. Things will have to change drastically before 2012 or Obama will get no more support from me, for sure.
As I said before the election, if the Democrats will not prosecute the deliberate breaking of laws, then the next time a Republinut is elected to be president, then the same group of lawbreakers will be back in the White House doing it all over again, just as it happened with the criminal Nixonites and Reaganites becoming “Bushies”.
Democrats, put those gawd-damned lobbyists checks down and do what you swore to do when elected, honor your oaths of office. Anything less is unacceptable.
July 12th, 2009 at 10:36 amHolder’s idea of investigation won’t last long when Obama gets back and get ahold of his ass.
KayinMaine, Obama’s second term? You gotta be kidding. On his current track, he is a one termer.
July 12th, 2009 at 10:37 amKayInMaine Says:
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I have a feeling right before the 2012 election we’re going to see some action and President Obama’s 2nd term is going to be more fruitful! This is why we need to get on the fast track in electing more Democrats to the Senate over the next few years.
July 12th, 2009 at 10:31 am
We need PROGRESSIVE DEMS ; not BLUE DOG jerkoffs….
July 12th, 2009 at 10:39 amPresident Obama says, “I also have a belief that we need to look forward as opposed to looking backwards. … My orientation is going to be moving foward.”
Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld want to thank Obama. Thanks for allowing Bush and Cheney to murder and torture hundreds of thousands of men, women, and children in the Middle East. And thanks for allowing Bush and Cheney to empty the U.S. Treasury and leave working class Americans with a $20 trillion IOU.
Thank you President Obama.
July 12th, 2009 at 10:39 amkay – Obama’s second term is going to be contingent of him having legitimate successes that he can run on.
The economy, according to Biden and many economists, may still be a “sticky” issue. Even Obama is talking about the long-haul, lowering expections (probably rightly so).
He does need to keep his progressive base on board – meaningful healthcare reform will be a good step towards ensuring re-election.
His continued use of signing statements, public statements about not holding previous administration accountable, continuation of cheney/chimpy’s secrecy, getting bogged down militarily in the middle east, threatening to veto cia reform, “friend of the court” briefs to protect and continue to cover up spying, not holding those that approved torture accountable…
Not so much so.
To be able to win a second term, he needs to point to some sucsesses in the first term, the repubicans may be “down” but they are not “out” – the lying liars in the mainstream media will ensure that.
July 12th, 2009 at 10:41 amThe body politic will only get sicker and sicker if the cancer isn’t treated.
The self-calling patriots of the repiggie party destroyed the good name of this nation all over the world with their enthusiastic support of the Bush/Cheney torture initiatives.
Why would any of you even consider voting for a repiggie at this point, even for local office?
They all support torture, homophobia, the enrichment of corporations, the destruction of personal comfort for the average citizen and the increasing illiteracy of our citizens.
July 12th, 2009 at 10:42 am*********OFF TOPIC**********
John McCrappyPilot on “Meet The Press” is hilarious ; he’s attempting to defend Bible Spice Palin , and for the 1st (and probably only) time , David Gregory is grilling him for supporting the quitting , weak-willed Meth Princess of Wasilla ………
July 12th, 2009 at 10:42 amThe success of Obama’s first term is enhanced when we have a robust dialog about how he can keep his coalition of support solidly behind him.
Progressives and liberals are an important component. Even when we don’t agree, a respectful dialog about the issues is a good thing.
July 12th, 2009 at 10:43 amI should add to post #22 that the repiggies are dedicated to a southern-style
July 12th, 2009 at 10:44 amwhites-only concept of government. Their overt racism is shameless and appalling.
The AP’s Nedra Pickler confirms that Holder is considering appointing a special prosecutor and that he “will make a final decision within the next few weeks.”
What in the hell could Holder possibly be doing that is more important at this point ?
And why would this sorry episode in our nation’s history take any type of “consideration” , much less a few more weeks of time-wasting ?
Sheesh ………What a crock.
July 12th, 2009 at 10:48 amI should add to post #22 that the repiggies are dedicated to a southern-style whites-only concept of government.
The balance of power, due to the electoral college system, means that they can game that strategy to work.
Tho make it work, they need the mainstream media to “catapult the propaganda” about a “highly energized base”, “security moms”, and various lies about ACORN.
This provides cover for illegal, race-based voter disenfranchisement and the outright theft of key states.
And after the election is stolen, the boobleheads will just blab on and on about that “highly energized base” and “security moms”.
Which begs the questions – why are dems and this administration giving repugs a “free pass” on voter caging?
July 12th, 2009 at 10:49 amOver and over again, the real obstacles to cleaning up this mess keeps getting ignored.
We’ve become so used to thinking of the Republicans and Dem conservatives as grumpy old jokes, people don’t realize that they are dead serious about protecting the Bushies and the Beltway establishment from what they sincerely consider to be political persecution. Obama has been ducking this issue for six months while he tries to get his administration in place and in control, while he gets his most basic, highest priority legislation passed to avoid turning this economic crash into a depression. He needs to avoid open revolt in the senate and the bureaucracy long enough to get government and the markets functioning properly.
If Holder can get an investigation going with the minimal amount of publicity, so much the better. The prosecutions have to happen, but not until after this legislative session ends this fall.
If the Beltway Civil War starts before then, while the MSM is still firmly in the Republican’s pockets, while the thug element in the military and civilian bureaucracy still thinks of Obama’s reforms as a fad rather then the new reality . . . a stable government and a stable economy are at risk.
July 12th, 2009 at 10:51 amRelated, perhaps even more important war crimes story:
Lawmaker won’t deny secret CIA program was ‘Cheney assassination ring’
July 12th, 2009 at 10:54 am
Midland Says:
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If the Beltway Civil War starts before then, while the MSM is still firmly in the Republican’s pockets, while the thug element in the military and civilian bureaucracy still thinks of Obama’s reforms as a fad rather then the new reality . . . a stable government and a stable economy are at risk.
July 12th, 2009 at 10:51 am
We haven’t had a “stable government” for years.
Beginning with Reagan , who sucked ass , this country has been suffocating under the iron grip of the garbage GOP…….Even during Clinton’s presidency , the Republicans merely sought to hound and embarrass the man , and not do things beneficial for the country and its citizens……..
July 12th, 2009 at 10:57 amTo those concerned about restoring the Bill of Rights and our constitutional form of government, here is an even more important story
Democrats May Investigate Secret Program
July 12th, 2009 at 10:57 am
I don’t even hinting at this could have happened at the start of the administration, given the hullaballoo to which all news media subjected Americans, by offering platform after platform to the Cheneys and Bush apologists and who challenged the loyalty of anyone who dared question THEM. Onward
July 12th, 2009 at 11:04 amThis is good news, I think. And validation that Obama picked the right person for the office of Attorney General if Holder follows through with this.
July 12th, 2009 at 11:13 amyeah right.
Neeeeeeeeever happen
July 12th, 2009 at 11:15 amOy, Karen Hughes is on Press The Meat lying as usual. Why are losers like her given a national platform?
July 12th, 2009 at 11:15 amLet Holder read Obama’s words to Africa and act accordingly.
July 12th, 2009 at 11:16 amLike most here, it is agreed that given the severity of the crimes and the constant revealing of new and damaging information, it SHOULD be a No Brainer(!) – Holder must begin building a case for prosecution.
Sadly, I’ll believe it when I see it and I am not holding my breath.
And don’t anyone tell me Obama is playing “chess”. Not buying it. Not anymore. Clearly Obama is playing politics. The worse kind. He’s taking short cuts through the Constitution by embracing and actively defending BushCo crime policies. Clearly, he does not want to give up the power BushCo now gives him.
If that makes me a troll then, so be it. I would love to be proven wrong and shouted down here. But if chess is the analogy, then it is clear that all Obama moves to date have been to checkmate the Constitution, the rule of law and equal justice under law with the disastrous outcome of precedent. Precedent that says no accountability or punishment, now or in the future of the most heinous crimes committed against the American people and its military by the rich, the powerful and politically well connected.
Shameful.
July 12th, 2009 at 11:18 amMy greatest joy was to see all the Bushies gone and my hope was/is to never see them again, and thus I wanted to move on and put a unified effort into a positive future. However, having read all of the thoughtful posts above I am re-sold on doing whatever possible to prosecute Bush crimes against the country and Constitution. If we can’t expose these criminals then our collective conscience can never be clean, no matter how painful and damaging the process will be.
July 12th, 2009 at 11:20 amJane E. Schneider Says:
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Oy, Karen Hughes is on Press The Meat lying as usual. Why are losers like her given a national platform?
July 12th, 2009 at 11:15 am
That woman is such a useless GOP TOOl ; one more view of the “brilliance” that was Chimpy Pretzeldent……..
July 12th, 2009 at 11:22 amBefore assigning Barack to one-term status just remember that at this stage in his first abomination, Chimpy McFlightsuit was highly ineffective and viewed as a huge mistake. Later we were given four more years of the little creep. Remember also the vagaries of politics. What Barack is now experiencing will in 2012 likely be viewed as a minor blip on his screen.
July 12th, 2009 at 11:23 amYou know on court shows how people just get incensed when the guilty guy gets off scott free?
That’s what’s happening on not just a national but a global scale here with Bush, Cheney, Rove, et al.
Americans and people around the WORLD are all demanding that these men be put on trial (well, that’s an understatement, put to the gallows would be more apt) and Obama the coward centrist isn’t doing it.
One big question remains…
Why did this regime win two elections and was never impeached? Republicans jumped on the impeachment bandwagon for something as trivial as a sex scandal, so why didn’t the democrats (immediately in 2006) demand we string up Bush and co. from the nearest tree?
Oh, that’s right… two stolen elections, countless war-crimes, and an opposition party too cowardly to stand up and act on their own convictions (democrats).
July 12th, 2009 at 11:28 amljm Says:
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My greatest joy was to see all the Bushies gone and my hope was/is to never see them again, and thus I wanted to move on and put a unified effort into a positive future. However, having read all of the thoughtful posts above I am re-sold on doing whatever possible to prosecute Bush crimes against the country and Constitution. If we can’t expose these criminals then our collective conscience can never be clean, no matter how painful and damaging the process will be.
July 12th, 2009 at 11:20 am
It isn’t just about America having a “clean conscience” ; the precedent that allowing the entire garbage Bush administration to walk away from their myriad of crimes/illegal acts sets could eventually threaten all our rights , along with our very existence……….
July 12th, 2009 at 11:29 amHolder waiting for Godot? Quit leaning and do due diligence or resign and let someone else take the job who will!
July 12th, 2009 at 11:30 amSooooooo…. How’s that Obama thing working for ya?
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
July 12th, 2009 at 11:31 ammike – didn’t assign him a one-term status, just saying he needs our support to push him to successfully create some meaningful change to maintain the widespread support of a huge part of his base – progressives and liberals
Also saying that, the mess obama inherited and the ability of repugs to “catapult the propaganda” via the mainstream media demands that Obama not sit back, play “centralist” and assume the economy will be rosy.
July 12th, 2009 at 11:32 amtimmy – take him over the chimp any day.
July 12th, 2009 at 11:34 amAs usual, TP doesn’t report the whole story.
The investigations would only be into practices that EXCEEDED the authority granted by the Bush Administrations policies. In other word, the only people prosecuted would be those that engaged in UNAUTHORIZED interrogation techniques.
If you folks think Eric Holder is going after the former administration you are DREAMING!
July 12th, 2009 at 11:35 amTim Vaculik Says:
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Sooooooo…. How’s that Obama thing working for ya?
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
July 12th, 2009 at 11:31 am
How’d voting for the worst president in US history in Bush(twice) , work out for you and America , Tim Vacusuck ?
July 12th, 2009 at 11:35 amTim Vaculik Says:
——————————————————————————–
As usual, TP doesn’t report the whole story.
The investigations would only be into practices that EXCEEDED the authority granted by the Bush Administrations policies. In other word, the only people prosecuted would be those that engaged in UNAUTHORIZED interrogation techniques.
If you folks think Eric Holder is going after the former administration you are DREAMING!
July 12th, 2009 at 11:35 am
Moron Cheney’s entire program was UNAUTHORIZED , you imbecile…..
July 12th, 2009 at 11:37 amHow’d that “mission accomplished” think work out for ya in Iraq?
July 12th, 2009 at 11:37 amI’m guessing you folks haven’t seen the latest POLLS.
Our new President’s policies are now being seen by a majority of Americans for what they really are.
Check them out at http://www.rasmussenreports.com
July 12th, 2009 at 11:37 am“It’s the economy stupid.” That’s why his polls are down. Not because he hasn’t investigated yet. Most idiot Americans don’t even know about torture or care. If he and Holder were to get overzealous about prosecutions the Rethugs would be yelling “politics, politics, politics” and hunkering down even worse. And they’d be able to get away with it better because many independents would fall for it. Obama needs to get the economy stabilized and health care passed. He needs to not start the battle until that is accomplished. Once the investigation gets started and more and more will be released to the public and will no doubt create a ground swell. More progressive informed people need to be patient and not throw the baby out with the bathwater. President Palin 2012 is certainly never going to investigate war crimes.
July 12th, 2009 at 11:37 amHow’d that “fiscal conservative” thing work out for ya?
July 12th, 2009 at 11:37 amSorry, McMetal… you are not entitled to your own set of facts.
July 12th, 2009 at 11:38 amHow’d that Social Security Bamboozle Tour thing work out for ya?
July 12th, 2009 at 11:38 amPresident Obama’s polls and the economy are exactly what Reagan’s were at the same time in their term.
July 12th, 2009 at 11:39 amPatience is important, but so too is having a clear voices that we demand meaningful change.
July 12th, 2009 at 11:40 amKay in Maine, thanks for the link to the White House comment page. I hope all of us take advantage of your post. This is, for the most part, what I wrote:
July 12th, 2009 at 11:40 am
Another Joe,
Very well. We accomplished what we set out to do as spelled out by official U.S. policy started under PResidet CLINTON and in numerous U.N. resolutions.
July 12th, 2009 at 11:40 amHey Tim, this isn’t an environmental topic what are you doing here? Is that energy company going to pay you triple time for posting on non-related issues? They may but they’re not going to like it.
July 12th, 2009 at 11:40 amDoodlebug Shayne,
Nice try at dodging the real issue, but that doesn’t surprise me.
July 12th, 2009 at 11:41 amHi Tim Vaculik>
July 12th, 2009 at 11:42 amSweet day here hope the same for you. So you are a supporterof the UN? I knew you were okay…
Tim Vaculik Says:
——————————————————————————–
Sorry, McMetal… you are not entitled to your own set of facts.
July 12th, 2009 at 11:38 am
Sorry , Tim Vacusuck ……..You are not entitled to present a right wing driven site/poll (like Rasmussen Report) as any type of “proof” of anything ; because it simply IS NOT…….
July 12th, 2009 at 11:44 amAnother Joe,
President Bush wasn’t a true fiscal conservative and besides, that’s not why I supported him. In fact, I was very vocal at the time about all the spending he and the Republicans in Congress were doing.
However, our new President makes former President Bush look like a PIKER!
July 12th, 2009 at 11:44 amMcMetal,
Listen, chump. Rasmussen is a very well-respected pollster. His polls are scientific so don’t think you are going to get away with the typical left-wing smear tactic.
July 12th, 2009 at 11:45 amWe thought the same thing of George Bush.
July 12th, 2009 at 11:46 amTim Vaculik Says:
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Another Joe,
“How’d that “mission accomplished” think work out for ya in Iraq?”
Very well. We accomplished what we set out to do as spelled out by official U.S. policy started under PResidet CLINTON and in numerous U.N. resolutions.
July 12th, 2009 at 11:40 am
Since when did Clinton and the U.N. set out to annihilate over a million Iraqis while displacing almost 5 million more , along with destroying their country while simultaneously pissing away trillions of US dollars , you moron ?
July 12th, 2009 at 11:46 amdbadass,
It’s quite hot here; 100 deg plus, so I get to stay inside and blog!
July 12th, 2009 at 11:47 amSo the fact Dick Cheney & George Bush ignored the laws and made up their own on surveillance, you’re okay with this? If President Obama continues to do what they did, you’d be fine and support the president right or wrong?
You neocons have no facts. Never have and never will! You listen with your fingers in your ears and you see with your hands over your eyes! Case closed.
July 12th, 2009 at 11:47 amTim Vaculik Says:
——————————————————————————–
McMetal,
Listen, chump. Rasmussen is a very well-respected pollster. His polls are scientific so don’t think you are going to get away with the typical left-wing smear tactic.
July 12th, 2009 at 11:45 am
Tim Vacusuck
Listen dipshit ; “respected” , by whom ?
You and the rest of the moronic GOP backing imbeciles in the US ?
Wow , how compelling ……….
July 12th, 2009 at 11:48 amMcMetal,
President Clinton didn’t and neither did President Bush.
July 12th, 2009 at 11:48 amMcMetal,
How’s the sound quality in that echo chamber?
July 12th, 2009 at 11:49 amTim Vaculik Says:
——————————————————————————–
However, our new President makes former President Bush look like a PIKER!
July 12th, 2009 at 11:44 am
He also makes his predecessor seem like the unintelligible imbecile that he’s always been ………..
July 12th, 2009 at 11:49 amTim Vaculik Says:
——————————————————————————–
McMetal,
“Since when did Clinton and the U.N. set out to annihilate over a million Iraqis…”
President Clinton didn’t and neither did President Bush.
July 12th, 2009 at 11:48 am
According to whom ?
A typical lying GOP moron like yourself ?
You need to do a bit better than that , tool……..
July 12th, 2009 at 11:50 amTim ValueSuck, can you tell us a little about Rocco Martino and how he was able to get his hands on blank letterhead in the Niger Embassy in Rome, Italy after Dick Cheney left the country after a strange brief visit with Scooter Libby in tow? Huh? And what did you think when George Bush said in his State of the Union speech that Saddam Hussein had tried to purchase yellowcake uranium? Now where did they get that info? Oh wait! I remember what Rocco Martino did and when the Democratic Senators who were part of the Senate Intelligence Committee at that time saw these fake documents and knew in an instance that they were forgeries! The Niger forgeries!
July 12th, 2009 at 11:50 amKayinMaine,
Just because you and others assert that the former administration “broke the law” doesn’t make it so.
July 12th, 2009 at 11:51 amReally, Dumbass? So all presidents have given the finger to the FISA court? Huh Dumbwad? Where’s your proof that Cheney & Bush were following the law to the letter? You have none. They broke the law, ignored the FISA Court/Rules and this is why one of the guys at FISA quit when he realized that the Bush Regime was acting illegally!
July 12th, 2009 at 11:52 am100+? Sure but is a dry heat…So what were those UN objectives you were so found of. The UN sure is the shits. How noble the idea…
July 12th, 2009 at 11:52 amTim Vaculik Says:
——————————————————————————–
McMetal,
How’s the sound quality in that echo chamber?
July 12th, 2009 at 11:49 am
A whole lot better than the lying drivel that you and your idiotic GOP backing brethren constantly spew , Tim Vacusuck……
July 12th, 2009 at 11:53 amReally Tim, then how will you keep your job?
July 12th, 2009 at 11:53 amTim:
July 12th, 2009 at 11:55 amThen you aren’t opposed to an investigation to see if they did? Because their own words suggest they violated US and International law.
Doodlebug Shayne,
You are correct. The problem is that the President and his willing accomplices in Congress are doing exactly the WRONG things to help the economy recover! The American public is now waking up to this fact and are realizing what they have wrought by electing him.
July 12th, 2009 at 11:56 amTim is for breaking the laws and ignoring them. No wonder he still worships George Bush! Idiot.
July 12th, 2009 at 11:56 am37.wolfsinger Says: And don’t anyone tell me Obama is playing “chess”. Not buying it. Not anymore. Clearly Obama is playing politics. The worse kind. He’s taking short cuts through the Constitution by embracing and actively defending BushCo crime policies. Clearly, he does not want to give up the power BushCo now gives him.
Agreed. There are yet more troubling clouds on the horizon:
The idea that Obama’s aids are advocating convenience over long-due justice is a disturbing revelation, as is the warped, politics-first mindset revealed by such statements.
As I understand it, Nuremberg removed the, “just following orders” defense, so why is Obama trying to arbitrarily reinstate it?
OTOH if , as Greenwald suggests, this is a ‘trial balloon,’ we are in a world of hurt when justice is institutionally meted out by popularity or expediency.
July 12th, 2009 at 11:59 amTim Vaculik Says:
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Doodlebug Shayne,
“”It’s the economy stupid.” That’s why his polls are down… Obama needs to get the economy stabilized and health care passed.”
You are correct. The problem is that the President and his willing accomplices in Congress are doing exactly the WRONG things to help the economy recover! The American public is now waking up to this fact and are realizing what they have wrought by electing him.
July 12th, 2009 at 11:56 am
Someone who laughably believes that Reagan’s horseshit Trickle Down Your Leg economic “plan” is brilliant , really shouldn’t be criticizing someone elses economic policy implementation……
July 12th, 2009 at 12:00 pmDr. Hussein Matt,
Not until the President and Rahm “dead fish” Emmanuel manipulate the next census and have their friends at ACORN commit the next round of voter fraud!
Oh, and I almost forgot about the help given by the new Black Panther party in Philly.
July 12th, 2009 at 12:02 pmMcMetal,
Oh, you mean that plan that brought us out of one of the worst economic periods of our History” You mean that plan that increased federal revenues to a then unprecedented level?
You obviously didn’t live through the Jimmy Carter years, my friend.
Try talikng about something you actually know about!
July 12th, 2009 at 12:04 pmljm Says:
My greatest joy was to see all the Bushies gone and my hope was/is to never see them again, and thus I wanted to move on and put a unified effort into a positive future. However, having read all of the thoughtful posts above I am re-sold on doing whatever possible to prosecute Bush crimes against the country and Constitution. If we can’t expose these criminals then our collective conscience can never be clean, no matter how painful and damaging the process will be.
July 12th, 2009 at 11:20 am
Wow. Seriously, how often do we actually have someone say that the “thoughtful posts” on TP caused someone to change their mind? This one rates the comment of the day! Recommend!
Thanks, ljm!
July 12th, 2009 at 12:07 pmI heard the Teabaggers were using their rallies to sign people up to vote. OFF WITH THEIR HEADS! TIME TO PROSECUTE THESE UN-AMERICANS! Right Tim?
July 12th, 2009 at 12:08 pmdbadass,
Once in a while the U.N. gets it right. For the most part, all the work done there by numerous countries including our own to address the threat posed by Saddam Hussein’s Iraq was the right thing to do.
Too bad we don’t have a President now who is willing to lead the way and address the threat of Iran or North Korea.
July 12th, 2009 at 12:10 pmTim Vaculik Says:
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McMetal,
“Someone who laughably believes that Reagan’s horseshit Trickle Down Your Leg economic “plan” is brilliant…”
Oh, you mean that plan that brought us out of one of the worst economic periods of our History” You mean that plan that increased federal revenues to a then unprecedented level?
You obviously didn’t live through the Jimmy Carter years, my friend.
Try talikng about something you actually know about!
July 12th, 2009 at 12:04 pm
The 5 LARGEST deficits in US history have ALL OCCURRED during the last 3 godawful GOP presidencies , nitwit ……
Reagan , Bush the Elder and Bush the Boy Blunder.
BTW
It was Carter’s economic plan that Ronnie Retard didn’t mess with during the 1st 2 to 3 years of his first crappy term that turned our economy around and let Ronnie Boy eventually implement his joke of an economic plan………
In the future , please post FACT and not GOP concocted bullshit stories , nor you own blind GOP backing wishful thinking , jackass……….
July 12th, 2009 at 12:11 pmIt’s unfair to say that Obama changed his position in April. Even before he was sworn in he was saying that while he thought it was important to focus on the challenges we face, the issue of deciding on prosecutions would be left to DOJ.
July 12th, 2009 at 12:12 pmIf President Obama does maintain the status quo from George Bush’s years, then what will the right wingers have at election time to go after him with?
July 12th, 2009 at 12:12 pmTim Vaculik Says:
——————————————————————————–
dbadass,
Once in a while the U.N. gets it right. For the most part, all the work done there by numerous countries including our own to address the threat posed by Saddam Hussein’s Iraq was the right thing to do.
Too bad we don’t have a President now who is willing to lead the way and address the threat of Iran or North Korea.
July 12th, 2009 at 12:10 pm
The “threat” that Iraq posed was non-existent ,you GOP backing moron ; the garbage Bush administration concocted stories about the “danger” that was Saddam/Iraq , you imbecile………
July 12th, 2009 at 12:14 pmSARAH PALIN
July 12th, 2009 at 12:15 pmTell me about this threat from North Korea and Iran Tim Vaculik. Try not to gin it up too much okay?
July 12th, 2009 at 12:16 pmOh, and I almost forgot about the help given by the new Black Panther party in Philly.
—
July 12th, 2009 at 12:17 pmHas the city considered firebombing them ala MOVE?
94. Acorvid Says: It’s unfair to say that Obama changed his position in April. Even before he was sworn in he was saying that while he thought it was important to focus on the challenges we face, the issue of deciding on prosecutions would be left to DOJ.
It’s Obama’s resistance to the idea of prosecuting bush crimes, following the rule of law, when he ran on that very platform that suggests he is changing his position. Since he has unceremoniously reversed himself in other areas, it’s fair to call him on his apparent about-face.
July 12th, 2009 at 12:18 pmThe state of politics and governing is so interesting at this point. Perhaps it has always been this way. But from where I sit, elected officials are the only professionals that rationalize their reluctance to do their duties as outlined by law because the job will involve some discomfort and effort. If politicians were in any other field they would be out of work in a day. I can just see it: “I’m sorry ma’am, but I can’t fix that clog in your artery. Doing that would involve cracking open your chest,surgically repairing your heart, and stitching your chest closed. All of that will be painful and require months for recovery. Even though it might save your life and you could live happily ever after, I am afraid the temporary discomfort is too much for us to risk such a procedure.”
It’s absurd. No investigations, because the politics will be sticky. Well you know what? Tough! Do your job and in the long wrong, we will all be better off for it.
July 12th, 2009 at 12:19 pmTim Vaculik
July 12th, 2009 at 12:20 pmMight you comment on all the UN work done relative to the actions of Israel over the years and the resolution thus associated?
thanks-
Okay, but what will Sarah Palin have to go after him except for the color of his skin and all the lies made up about him by the wingers? Nothing. She can’t argue about healthcare if it was not passed. She can’t argue about the 2 year stimulus plan if jobs are created during that time. She can’t complain about his budgets when the budgets start to decrease because the Iraq/Afghan wars are pretty much ended. If we’re still in Iraq/Afghanistan, she can’t argue against either because her party is in love with these two wars/occupations. She won’t be able to argue against the tax cuts for the middle class. She won’t be able to argue how the meanie liberals went after the crimes of the Bush Regime. If their crimes do go without prosecution, she can’t argue this either.
Whoever is on the republican ticket will have a hard time going after Obama I think without all their lies, deceits, and distortions of the truth.
July 12th, 2009 at 12:20 pmObama and the Democrats are afraid of triggering a partisan war. Obama must be deaf because since he came to office, DC has been a partisan war by the Republicans. He keeps trying to get Republicans to co-operate and they have refused every opportunity.
Obama is too young to remember the Watergate hearings. When Sen. Ervin began the hearings, Nixon and the Republicans said the hearings were partisan. As the hearings progressed the Republicans went from vocal to quiet as each misdeed was revealed. The Republicans statements eventually acknowledged that there were serious crimes committed by the Nixon administration. The public opinion turned against Nixon as well as the news media including the conservative outlets. By the end of the hearings, Senators were telling Nixon in private he should resign. The Republicans were the last people to acknowledge the wrongdoings.
Holder should appoint a special prosecutor and let the chips fall where they may. The prosecutor can turn over material to Congress and let them see the evidence. The public hearings would necessarily lay out the whole panoply of misdeeds. As the hearings progress, the Republicans will be forced to cut Bush, et al, loose, because they will be unable to claim partisan prosecutions.
July 12th, 2009 at 12:21 pmIn post 101: long wrong should be long run
but perhaps long wrong is a better descriptor after all
July 12th, 2009 at 12:22 pmBut those tactics won in 2 out of the last 3 presidential elections.
July 12th, 2009 at 12:23 pmMcMetal,
I can’t hear you because of all that racket in your own personal echo chamber…
July 12th, 2009 at 12:23 pm106. Briseadh na Faire Says: But those tactics won in 2 out of the last 3 presidential elections.
They just need to run on “change.” Worked for Obama…
July 12th, 2009 at 12:25 pmThere is the old adage, timing is everything.
President Obama is one shrewd politician, and it appears the stage is being set. President Obama is in the middle of health care reform and he up against some substantial and formidable opposition. Public support is one thing but he is taking on the health care industry. I can’t think of a better way to distract the Republicans’ attention than one of many criminal investigations of the Cheney/Bush administration. The scenario is a win/win proposition for his political capital, and a lose/lose proposition for the Republicans’ capital.
No doubt it required months to get the preliminary ground work laid for the investigations and time to lay the foundations for the balance of his legislative agenda.
Politics are politics and to be successful you must play, and play for keeps.
Fasten your seatbelts, because some history may be in the making.
P.S. The Republicans are nervous as hell! I get a good smug feeling on this point.
July 12th, 2009 at 12:26 pmZooey #90,
I couldn’t agree more.
Then Timsucksalot showed up.
July 12th, 2009 at 12:27 pmTim Vaculik Says:
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McMetal,
I can’t hear you because of all that racket in your own personal echo chamber…
July 12th, 2009 at 12:23 pm
You can’t “hear” because of your intentional ignorance and willingness to wallow in your partisan denial , Tim Vacusuck …….
July 12th, 2009 at 12:28 pmdbadass,
Well, there’s a lot of material there, but I’m not that versed in it except to say that I don’t agree with a number of resolutions dealing with the Palestinians.
There’s a lot of mis-information about the history of Israel that has been repeated to the point that people believe it’s true. This coupled with the slanted reporting of more recent events and the emotional reactions this engenders makes it difficult to discuss dispassionately.
July 12th, 2009 at 12:29 pmMcMetal,
So did you vote for President Carter? Were you around age 18 to 25 when he was President?
July 12th, 2009 at 12:30 pmThey need to do what is in the best interests of the country.
You don’t want the cure to kill the patient.
Our need to see the Bush cabal get what’s coming to them is secondary.
That said, I think it is in the best interests of the country to prosecute to the fullest extent the law allows. History making affirmation that America’s principles are not optional.
July 12th, 2009 at 12:31 pmMcMetal,
The truth is that President Carter’s approach to the economy and other vital issues of the time was, in the main, a disaster.
He actually didn’t know what to do to get the country moving again, economically or socially. Sorry, but yours is a ridiculous assertion not supported by history.
July 12th, 2009 at 12:33 pmTim Vaculik Says:
——————————————————————————–
McMetal,
So did you vote for President Carter? Were you around age 18 to 25 when he was President?
July 12th, 2009 at 12:30 pm
No , I didn’t vote for Carter ; I wasn’t old enough to vote at that time.
If I were , I defnintely would have voted for him , though.
As it turns out , I have despised 2 US presidents in my life ; Reagan and Bush the Boy Blunder.
Not coincidently , they turned out to be the 2 worst presidents in US history…………
July 12th, 2009 at 12:34 pmRich H Says:
Then Timsucksalot showed up.
July 12th, 2009 at 12:27 pm
I wish we could just ignore that ignoramus.
July 12th, 2009 at 12:36 pmTim Vaculik Says:
——————————————————————————–
McMetal,
The truth is that President Carter’s approach to the economy and other vital issues of the time was, in the main, a disaster.
He actually didn’t know what to do to get the country moving again, economically or socially. Sorry, but yours is a ridiculous assertion not supported by history.
July 12th, 2009 at 12:33 pm
Oh , really ?
Placing solar panels in the White House (which Ronnie Retard subsequently had removed) , while wanting to wean the US off oil , sure was the thinking of a colossal ignoramus , wasn’t it ?
Your partisan (and untrue) view of the fictional nature of Reagan’s horseshit presidency is merely atypical of any and all GOP backing stooges……………
July 12th, 2009 at 12:37 pmI agree on all points, but it sure is hard to walk between raindrops. Maybe the Obama haters nouveau should look at the larger picture – the man is not a magic wand (Sorry Michelle), and caution does not necessarily equal an abandonment of principle…
July 12th, 2009 at 12:38 pmTim Vaculik Says:
The truth is that President Carter’s approach to the economy and other vital issues of the time was, in the main, a disaster.
He actually didn’t know what to do to get the country moving again, economically or socially. Sorry, but yours is a ridiculous assertion not supported by history.
Hmmmm. Carter took over the presidency after the Nixon debacle which left the office considerably weakened. The economy was in shambles before he took over because of rampant inflation that had gone on for years. And our foreign policy was coming unraveled. Carter tried to get the economy moving again, restored dignity to the foreign policy and repaired relations between the president and Congress. The disasters were there before he took over the presidency much like Obama’s position today. Carter was trying to dig the country out of a deep hole created by Nixon and Congress. It is no wonder why he could get very little done.
July 12th, 2009 at 12:44 pmWell Tim, If you get the chance to tell me how North Korea or Iran is a threat tomy kids and community, maybe you could include an articulation ofthis Israel misinformation stuff? Damn you are learned…
July 12th, 2009 at 12:46 pmnellre:
July 12th, 2009 at 12:46 pmIf investigations (the cure in this case, I believe) kill the patient (the country), then the patient is far sicker than I would have ever guessed. If the country can’t survive that, then perhaps we need to just start over.
Timmeh 44
so Timmeh how is that being a moron thing working out for YOU?
July 12th, 2009 at 2:01 pmTimmeh
I COULD go back and take your posts apart point by point but I dont feel like wasting my time today. You are stupid. You are ignorant of history and instead have some bizzare and delusional version of reality you have made up in your head or more accuratly were programmed with by the screechmonkeys that do your thinking for you. You flat out know nothing about our real political history or, in fact, pretty much anything else. I feel sorry for you. It must suck to be as stupid as you are. Keep baying at the moon and we will keep laughing at your ignorance and your staggering stupidity
July 12th, 2009 at 2:06 pmI think he’s perfected the technique. He believes the lies spewed by Rush and Fox like a pro. I wonder if he thinks ACORN stole the 2000 and 2004 elections for W?
July 12th, 2009 at 2:14 pmEugeneDebs,
I find that with you it’s either one ot the other:
1. “Over the top” an hominium attacks on me or anyone else who dares to present another point of view here.
2. Intelligent, thoughtful dialogue.
There doesn’t seem to be any in between. I’m not sure why you act this way, but all I can say is that I got over feeling personally insulted after I saw you say exactly the same things to others. Maybe it makes you feel better or more superior I don’t know, but I prefer Mr. Hyde to Dr. Jekyll!
July 12th, 2009 at 2:16 pmI wonder why W didn’t bother to do anything about the North Korea problem Timmy speaks of. I guess there’s no oil to steal there.
I remember Jimmy Carter lost reelection because Reagan/Bush cut a deal with terrorist to hold the hostages until after the election for a weapons deal. I remember Iran/Crontra hearing where dipshit Reagan couldn’t remember about 200 questions and well what we expect from Daddy Bush besides lies. I would love that man to have to answer for all the crimes he’s been involved with starting with his presence at the JFK assasination right through today.
July 12th, 2009 at 2:18 pmMcMetal,
I think you’ve answered my question.
July 12th, 2009 at 2:19 pmTim, I don’t believe anybody believes you’re capable of diagnosing EugeneDebs, he’s way out of your league. Then again with the crap you believe from your propaganda distributors we’d be surprised if you know how to wipe yourself.
July 12th, 2009 at 2:20 pmEugeneDebs Says:
Timmeh 44
so Timmeh how is that being a moron thing working out for YOU?
It works quite well in the Meghan McCain circle.
July 12th, 2009 at 2:22 pmDoodlebug Shayne,
You and others here sure have SHORT memories! President Bush most definitely took actions with respect to North Korea, but they met with only partial success.
Also, your “memory” of the Carter era is just as flawed as McMetal’s.
July 12th, 2009 at 2:23 pmDoodlebug Shayne,
I see you are into hero worship. How impressive!
July 12th, 2009 at 2:24 pmdbadass,
North Korea just showed us all what a threat they can be with their cyber-warfare attack.
Another thing they are very good at is massive insurance fraud and counterfeiting, both of which are causing major problems.
As bad as those are, however, they pale when compared to the North Koreans supplying nuclear bomb and missile technology to the middle east.
July 12th, 2009 at 2:27 pmdbadass,
The current threat with respect to Iran is actually related to their interference with the fledgling democracy in Iraq.
Of course, the biggest threat is the fact they will soon have the bomb.
July 12th, 2009 at 2:30 pmTim Vaculik:
July 12th, 2009 at 2:35 pmExplain to me again why either N Korea or Iran is going to attack me? Now don’t you think the stockpile of “the” bombs my country has makes me a threat or is that different?
Tim Vaculik Says:
——————————————————————————–
Doodlebug Shayne,
You and others here sure have SHORT memories! President Bush most definitely took actions with respect to North Korea, but they met with only partial success.
Also, your “memory” of the Carter era is just as flawed as McMetal’s.
July 12th, 2009 at 2:23 pm
Yeah , as opposed to your laughably delusional view of Ronnie Retard’s garbage presidency ……..
July 12th, 2009 at 2:36 pmTim Vaculik Says:
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McMetal,
I think you’ve answered my question.
July 12th, 2009 at 2:19 pm
Tim Vacusuck
I know you’re simply not capable of any type of thought…..You’re nothing more than an imbecilic Ronald Reagan worshipper and a GOP stooge……..
July 12th, 2009 at 2:38 pmTim Vaculik Says:
——————————————————————————–
Doodlebug Shayne,
“”It’s the economy stupid.” That’s why his polls are down… Obama needs to get the economy stabilized and health care passed.”
You are correct. The problem is that the President and his willing accomplices in Congress are doing exactly the WRONG things to help the economy recover! The American public is now waking up to this fact and are realizing what they have wrought by electing him
{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{
Tim Vaculik,
Exactly the wrong things to correct the economy sound as if you are aware of exactly the correct things to fix the economy! Wow, for 8 years the Republicans had you at their disposal and what happened? McCain was running and again they didn’t consult you? Now you have your chance because flight wants the exact, correct way to get the economy moving.
Economists, heads up, Tim Vaculikis letting in on his big secret.
July 12th, 2009 at 2:45 pm“How to fix the American in 43 easy steps”.
flight, nicely done!
July 12th, 2009 at 2:58 pmdont buy it it is the demos attempt to look tough and cover up their spinelessness.
at least the repubs have a spine
they may be selfish and crooks but with a spine to go along with that its all about me mode of being in this world.
profits over people the cry of the repubs
go independent make a statement to both parties
neither party is of the people but the lobbyists for their money
they both know what it takes to win elections. ie money
and who has that money ie corps and their lobbyists
July 12th, 2009 at 3:04 pmForeign policy, strategic military planning, and economics. I told you that TimVaculik was learned…
July 12th, 2009 at 3:11 pmdbadass Says:
——————————————————————————–
Foreign policy, strategic military planning, and economics. I told you that TimVaculik was learned…
July 12th, 2009 at 3:11 pm
Yeah ………His comprehension level on all those listed topics is almost the equivalent of Bible Spice Palin’s……..
July 12th, 2009 at 3:19 pmdbadass,
If you have difficulty discerning the difference between the
July 12th, 2009 at 3:45 pmUnited States or other Western democracies having the bomb and the likes of countries like North Korea, Iran, etc., then I can’t help you.
flight,
I’m not the only one saying these things, nor do I hold myself out to be an expert. There’s really no “secret” to what makes our economy function. Here’s a hint; government isn’t the answer.
I’m just an average citizen who is able to take in a lot of information from many different sources and form an opinion. You may not share that opinion and that’s your perogative.
July 12th, 2009 at 3:50 pmTim Vaculik Says:
——————————————————————————–
dbadass,
If you have difficulty discerning the difference between the
United States or other Western democracies having the bomb and the likes of countries like North Korea, Iran, etc., then I can’t help you.
July 12th, 2009 at 3:45 pm
Oh , you mean like the democracies of Russia and China ?
And how many countries have ever used them on an “enemy” like we have ?
None…………..
July 12th, 2009 at 3:55 pmTim Vaculik Says:
——————————————————————————–
I’m just an average citizen who is able to take in a lot of information from many different sources and form an opinion.
July 12th, 2009 at 3:50 pm
How many of these “different sources” are not GOP/right wingnut backing sites ?
I’m willing to bet , not a one ………..
July 12th, 2009 at 3:58 pmHere’s a quote that aptly sums up some of my verbal opponents on this blog:
Laurence J. Peter
July 12th, 2009 at 4:01 pmMCMetal,
Not that it’s easy, but I listen to several shows or parts thereof on the America Left channel on XM. I read the daily newspaper!
I also have several ardent progressives in my family that keep me on my toes.
You appear to be someone that makes a lot of noise in a vain attempt to cover up what you don’t know.
July 12th, 2009 at 4:05 pmI took that test the other day from a link on this blog. The person who posted was sure I would test out close to Adolph Hitler.
Actually, I tested close to Libertarian and far from right wing… nowhere near Hitler or even former President Bush according to the web site.
July 12th, 2009 at 4:07 pmSee, this is what I mean by ignorance:
McMetal sez:
Noooo, I didn’t call them democracies or even mention them.
To put the word enemy in quotes when referring to Japan is more than displaying utter ignorance, it’s insulting to every American, whether they served or not.
I’m done responding to such an utter fool like this McMetalhead
July 12th, 2009 at 4:12 pmTim Vaculik Says:
——————————————————————————–
MCMetal,
Not that it’s easy, but I listen to several shows or parts thereof on the America Left channel on XM. I read the daily newspaper!
I also have several ardent progressives in my family that keep me on my toes.
You appear to be someone that makes a lot of noise in a vain attempt to cover up what you don’t know.
July 12th, 2009 at 4:05 pm
Yeah , I can see how you of all people can readily claim that someone else doesn’t know anything , based upon your singular ability to use typical GOP revisionist history and outright bullshit rhetoric.
You haven’t written one post that contains ONE IOTA of factual info ; just biased , ignorant and partisan views that continuously tries to credit the worthless GOP while simultaneously demonizing the Democratic party.
You’re an absolute imbecile and incredibly lame……..
July 12th, 2009 at 4:13 pmTim Vaculik Says:
——————————————————————————–
July 12th, 2009 at 4:12 pm
You mean , as opposed to this bit of “brilliance” , stupid ass ?
Tim Vaculik Says:
——————————————————————————–
dbadass,
If you have difficulty discerning the difference between the
United States or other Western democracies having the bomb and the likes of countries like North Korea, Iran, etc., then I can’t help you.
July 12th, 2009 at 3:45 pm
North Korea and/or Iran are “worse” than either Russia or China , and/or “more dangerous” ?
How , exactly ?
Either one of their armies is nowhere near comparable to Russia’s , much less China’s , you retarded slug.
And the entire Japanese population was our “enemy” , jackass ?
Whatever happened to not targeting civilians , you worthless and stupid piece of shit ?
You’re a fu(king moron…………
July 12th, 2009 at 4:18 pmYou just have to look at the next article to understand why it is so important for Holder to move forward and take action.
As you can see, most of the principles refused to be questioned. Addington is probably key, just as Scooter Libby was key to the Valerie Plame leak. Could we expect less from Cheney’s close staff?
July 12th, 2009 at 4:24 pmTell me the difference Tim Vaculik. Come on articulate the jingoism. It will be fun. Face it Tim you are living in a pre 911 mindset. Everything changed Tim. Your weird Cold War flag wrapping is no longer meaningful…
July 12th, 2009 at 4:33 pmStill the strategic planner that is Tim Vaculik has failed to explain the rationale wherein North Korea or Iran would attack the USA. Tim won’t I will bet and I will put this weeks check behind that wager…
July 12th, 2009 at 4:35 pmOh no Tim Vaculik is playing the lame game of announcing who is worthy of critical thinking and response and who isn’t. You always know they are beaten when they start that shit…
July 12th, 2009 at 4:35 pmLibertarians are posers. So Tim Did you test out close to my buddies the Brown’s.Get some guns and shit together and piss and moan about taxes and the big bad government. Just do it while you claim the greatest nation shit and wrap a flag around your whiny Libertarian ass…
July 12th, 2009 at 4:40 pmSays:
——————————————————————————–
flight,
I’m not the only one saying these things, nor do I hold myself out to be an expert. There’s really no “secret” to what makes our economy function. Here’s a hint; government isn’t the answer.
I’m just an average citizen who is able to take in a lot of information from many different sources and form an opinion. You may not share that opinion and that’s your perogative.
{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{
Tim Vaculik,
You must forgive my sarcasm, but I find it a little dishonest that any one approch to the present economic situation is best, including the free market system. Consider the scale of our corporate economies, when they’re in trouble, the country is in trouble.
The time frame between the civil war and the Great Depression saw numerous economic collapses. The scale of the Great Depression forced the Government into sectors it had previously avoided. Those solutions served this country very well. When the decision was made to remove these controls on the financial system, we ended up right where we are now.
Governance is the art of regulating the society for maximum potential. The statistics have shown that the Democrats have been able to provide this governance with far better results than Republicans. The bottom line in my book is a practical, case by case approach to problems and their solutions. Reaganomics is a good case in point (one theory doesn’t fit everything).Apply the free market competitive system to schools, medical care, even running a war. The results are not all that convincing at best.
Government is not the answer.
The quality of governance is.
I honestly think it is an art form.
humbly, flight
July 12th, 2009 at 4:46 pmWhy is it that the most moronic GOP backers like Tim Vacusuck always delusionally believe in their own non-existent intellectual superiority ?
It’s truly bizarre and incredibly hilarious …………
July 12th, 2009 at 4:52 pmTim Vaculik Says:
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McMetal,
The truth is that President Carter’s approach to the economy and other vital issues of the time was, in the main, a disaster.
He actually didn’t know what to do to get the country moving again, economically or socially. Sorry, but yours is a ridiculous assertion not supported by history.
{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{
Tim, on this count this is Republican history 101. You better check your history and look at the statistics. Carter managed
the country through some very serious times and did far better job than his two predecessors in laying some fundamental ground work for many things that followed.
Inflation under control
Curbing the OPEC influence on oil prices
Reducing this countries dependence on foreign oil
( we could have followed on this count and we may not be in the energy mess we are in now)
Tim my man, this is selective history and I never have bought it for one minute.
July 12th, 2009 at 5:26 pmdbadass,
Take a deep breath. I didn’t SAY I was Libertarian, only that in the test my views tended toward the Libertarian as opposed to the authoritarian.
I had been accused (wrongly) of being a person of extreme right-wing views. Nothing could be further from the truth.
Actually, as I’ve said on many occaisions I don’t even consider myself a Republican, although I tend to vote that way. I am a conservative.
July 12th, 2009 at 5:26 pmFlight at #158,
O.K. then, I’ll settle for our current President doing what former President Clinton did!!!
July 12th, 2009 at 5:29 pmTim Vaculik Says:
——————————————————————————–
I am a conservative.
July 12th, 2009 at 5:26 pm
“Not all conservatives are stupid people, but most stupid people are conservatives”….You are indeed one of those stupid people that is a conservative …………
July 12th, 2009 at 5:31 pmflight,
It’s simply not possible to credit Jimmy Carter with doing the things his successor did to get the economy going in the right direction.
I lived through the Carter years and still vividly remember how clueless he was when it came to the economy.
July 12th, 2009 at 5:33 pmI can’t see a difference between the two. In fact, maybe you would like to name just one really, true conservative in this country that you truly respect. I can’t see a real conservative anywhere. They are all dead or born-again, Christianista, corporate sucking, facists, neo-cons.
July 12th, 2009 at 5:34 pmTim Vaculik Says:
——————————————————————————–
Flight at #158,
O.K. then, I’ll settle for our current President doing what former President Clinton did!!!
July 12th, 2009 at 5:29 pm
Wow ……….You’re willing to “settle” ?
I’m certain both President Clinton and President Obama just breathed huge sighs of relief ………..
July 12th, 2009 at 5:35 pmTim Vaculik Says:
——————————————————————————–
flight,
It’s simply not possible to credit Jimmy Carter with doing the things his successor did to get the economy going in the right direction.
I lived through the Carter years and still vividly remember how clueless he was when it came to the economy.
July 12th, 2009 at 5:33 pm
The unemployment rate was 10.8% by late 1982 , Einstein …….The highest it was under Carter was 7 and 1/2 % …….
Yeah , your demi-god Ronnie Retard sure was some type of “economic genius” , you moronic GOP backing suckhole…….
July 12th, 2009 at 5:46 pmTim Vaculik, you clearly demonstrate the kind of hideous intelligence that those who remain loyal to today’s GOP have become. Bereft of a understanding of history and steeped in party-above-all mentality your hideous logic twists and turns like a worm leaving behind its own waste in its tracks for its effort.
Gone are the moderates from within your party. Gone is your parties grip on power. The voters said no to you and your agenda in Nov at record levels. And judging by the painfully distorted and anguished posts you defecate here, gone is your parties civility and humility at 8 years of abject failure to govern in the countries best interest. It would seem that remains for you is to bite the ankles of those here without offering up anything other than that which was rejected overwhelmingly by the American people.
I have little doubt that you will not understand a word of this post. There are several smart folks here who would be happy to explain it to you.
I just have one question for you Tim, what do you want to be when you grow up?
July 12th, 2009 at 6:03 pmwolfsinger Says:
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I just have one question for you Tim, what do you want to be when you grow up?
July 12th, 2009 at 6:03 pm
Why , Ronald Reagan , of course……..
A horrible actor and an even worse president………..
July 12th, 2009 at 6:07 pmTim V,
The question still stands if you have the brain…
“[...] maybe you would like to name just one really, true conservative in this country that you truly respect.”
Just give it a try…’K?
Just name one that won’t make me LMAO…
July 12th, 2009 at 6:15 pmTim Vaculik Says:
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Flight at #158,
O.K. then, I’ll settle for our current President doing what former President Clinton did!!!
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My dear TIM Vaculik,
You have demonstrated the point I was trying to make. You want a silver bullet to make things work. Guess what, it doesn’t exist. I have no illusions concerning the direction Obama is steering the country. Some things will work and some things won’t. Are you surprised? Come on, if things work, you proceed, if they don’t you rethink and try again. You need to look a little harder and find both sides of the policy equation.
You keep taking only side and I assume you are not interested in the positive aspects, and you are missing some fundamental points.
Tim,
July 12th, 2009 at 6:25 pmJimmy Carter had the middle class at the center of his policies. Considering what he inherited, he did his best to protect the middle class. I also lived through the times and remember Reagan selling the middle class out. And that sell out continues to this day. So you can say I am little found of the President who took the middle class interests to heart. As far as Reagan is concerned, look around you, and enjoy, it’s the end play of Reaganomics, and good riddance!!!!!!!!!
Jimmy Carter has spent many years building homes for the poor. This represents his true character. Can’t argue with it either. The End.
July 12th, 2009 at 7:18 pmAG Holder please press on with the investigation. O’s approval ratings probably would sore through the roof.
It’s just “baffling” to me how Congress can be divided on an issue where former leaders actually broke the laws to a point that put the whole country in peril. They should just put aside ideology for a minute and really think about what Cheney and Bush did.
This is very very “disturbing” and “vile.” I can’t wait to see how all this is going to be played out it will be interesting.
July 12th, 2009 at 7:55 pmMr. Holder should do this. He should VIGOROUSLY investigate. The President as far as the Constitution goes, really has no say about what the DOJ can and cannot investigate. He is not allowed to give advice to the Attorney General. This is how the DOJ got politicized to begin with. Bush and Cheney used it for political reasons and screwed it up royally.
The President picks the Attorney General. But after that, he has no legal input as to what they DOJ does. And he should remember that. He has gone back on so much, that he should at the very least, let someone else do the job, he is unwilling to support. Obama is a politician. I hate to say it, but this is now what he has become. Too bad.
July 12th, 2009 at 8:09 pmKayInMaine,
July 12th, 2009 at 8:15 pmIt doesn’t matter if more dems are appointed to the senate b/c there’s not much difference b/w them and republics-they both take bribes so how can we trust any of them? And if the dems are refusing to take advantage of being the majority party well then I’m afraid there’s no hope for them.
Midland Says:
We’ve become so used to thinking of the Republicans and Dem conservatives as grumpy old jokes, people don’t realize that they are dead serious about protecting the Bushies and the Beltway establishment from what they sincerely consider to be political persecution. Obama has been ducking this issue for six months while he tries to get his administration in place and in control, while he gets his most basic, highest priority legislation passed to avoid turning this economic crash into a depression. He needs to avoid open revolt in the senate and the bureaucracy long enough to get government and the markets functioning properly.
Midland, do you really believe that? Do you think Obama would be in office if he had any plans of prosecuting the Bush crime family? If the Bushies control the oil cartel and the oil cartel control the gov’t then what does that tell you?As hard a pill it is to swallow, we have to face that the crimes of the previous administration will never be prosecuted.
July 12th, 2009 at 8:23 pmHey, I have an idea. Why don’t we have Obama investigated for illegally firing Inspector General Walprin? Shouldn’t his past activities be investigated? Hey, by the way, does he have a birth certificate? Is he a natural born citizen? Shouldn’t these be investigated since it has to do with the here and now; not the past?
I only hope that there is enough prison space for Obama and his cronies!!!!!
Will you be looking forward as zealously to his investigation into war crimes after 2012? That is if he is not impeached before that or imprisoned for fraud and treason.
Only asking?
I want you to know that I am rooting for you progressives!! There is no such thing as a top heavy company or government. I am sure there will be enough spoils to go around the hundreds of thousands progressive elitists. Obama keeps his promises. You will get your share.
July 13th, 2009 at 3:49 amI was watching Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas and I researched if Hunter S. Thompson ever said anything about Bush/Cheney. Thompson hated Nixon who he described as corrupt, evil, and a few other choice words. Interestingly enough, Thompson said that if he had to choose between voting for Bush/Cheney or Nixon, he chose Nixon.
July 13th, 2009 at 2:19 pmI’d rather the US Government use my tax money to create jobs and stabilize the economy right now, rather than waste it by throwing it into the money pit of doing an “investigation” we all know will never lead to anything anyways, because Cheney and Bush – while bending the laws so far over they almost touch the ground – they never really broke them, certainly not enough to land them in jail.
July 14th, 2009 at 1:23 amOops, forgot to add, and even if they *did* break a law, it’s not like as a former President and Vice President they’d ever see inside a jail cell.
In the entire history of the US that has NEVER happened, and I seriously doubt it ever will. Whatever President is in office at the time will most likely end up pardoning them – which like I said, just means the whole thing would be a waste of money to begin with.
July 14th, 2009 at 1:25 am