Right-Wing Escalates Fear-Mongering Rhetoric: Warns Americans Will Die If Health Care Reform Passes
Right-Wing Escalates Fear-Mongering Rhetoric: Warns Americans Will Die If Health Care Reform Passes
Yesterday, the Senate Health, Education, Labor and Pensions Committee passed a health reform plan that includes a public option. Meanwhile, on the House side, Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) rolled out “a bill worth fighting for.” Republican Congressman Peter Hoekstra predicted that Congress will soon pass a comprehensive health reform bill.
Fearing that health reform is getting closer to passage, the right-wing is escalating its rhetoric by issuing dire warnings of its consequences. Interviewed by the Washington Times, Sen. Tom Coburn (R-OK) was asked if “government-run health care” will “end up killing more people than it saves?” Coburn responded, “Absolutely.”
A couple of right-wing congressman voiced similar doom-and-gloom rhetoric on the House floor yesterday:
Rep. Steve King (R-IA): “They’re going to save money by rationing care, getting you in a long line. Places like Canada, United Kingdom, and Europe. People die when they’re in line.”
Rep. Louie Gohmert (R-TX): “One in five people have to die because they went to socialized medicine! … I would hate to think that among five women, one of ‘em is gonna die because we go to socialized care.”
Watch it:
“Many Americans are under the delusion that we have ‘the best health care system in the world,’” the New York Times editorial page wrote in 2007, but “the disturbing truth is that this country lags well behind other advanced nations in delivering timely and effective care.”
Comapred with Australia, Canada, Germany, New Zealand, and the United Kingdom, the United States ranks last in all dimensions of a high performance health system: quality, access, efficiency, equity, and healthy lives. The United States currently ranks 50th out of 224 nations in life expectancy, with an average life span of 78.1 years, according to 2009 estimates from the CIA World Factbook.
Canada, Great Britain, and many of the other countries that the right-wing enjoys beating up on actually like their health systems and wouldn’t want to trade places with an American. Moreover, Americans don’t get a good bang for our buck. A Business Roundtable study found that compared to France, Germany, Japan, and the United Kingdom, U.S. workers and employers receive 23 percent less value from our health care system than the citizens of these other nations.
And, as the chart below shows, the U.S. spends the most per person on health care, but actually has worst life expectancies than many countries which spend less:
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What’s the name of King’s and Gohmert’s private healthcare insurance company , again ?
TaxPayer Funded ?
July 16th, 2009 at 1:51 pmYes, yes we hear your “concern”. It must be far worse to be in line for care than to stand outside, nose pressed against the window, looking in, knowing that you don’t stand a chance of being seen by a healthcare provider.
Got news for you fellows: People are not just dying while waiting in line here, they’re dying without making it to the line, knowing they have no coverage.
PEACE
July 16th, 2009 at 1:53 pmActually, they’re just threatening to start killing people if the health care bill passes. Shame on you for taking them out of context!
July 16th, 2009 at 1:54 pmHow many US Senators had died waiting in line for their tax-payer funded Healthcare?
Too few, from the sounds of it.
(Not wishing harm on anyone, just poking fun. Trolls, you remember humor, right?)
July 16th, 2009 at 1:55 pmTake the middlemen out of the system and costs go down while quality goes up.
It is really that simple. Health insurance companies are destroying health care in order to increase their profits.
Remove their skimming hands from the trough and health care can flow straight to the people.
July 16th, 2009 at 1:55 pmI suspect that if anyone ‘dies’ because of the public health care option it will be the health insurance company owners swan diving from their penthouses when the cash cow dries up.
And there would also be a large number of Congress critters who would wish they had when their lobbyist well goes dry.
July 16th, 2009 at 1:57 pmhey cancervatives,
July 16th, 2009 at 1:59 pmriddle me this:
if a public option for healthcare is such a bad thing how come not a single nation which has it has ever gotten rid of it?
barracks9 says:
“How many US Senators had died waiting in line for their tax-payer funded Healthcare?”
That would be none, barracks9. Maybe that’s the true reason behind Republiscum obstruction, they don’t want us huddled masses clogging up their doctor’s lines with our medical needs.
July 16th, 2009 at 2:00 pmWhen members of Congress give up their tax-payer funded health care and have to buy their insurance on the open market, then they can talk about how a public plan is “killing people”.
Until then shut your traps and fix the problem!
July 16th, 2009 at 2:01 pmOf course everything they are saying are lies. Fortunately for us the American public is on to their lies. The only way health care will be “rationed” will be that people may need to wait for elective surgery that is not threatening to the health of the patient. People don’t die because they have to wait a couple of months for knee surgery.
Besides, they are totally ignoring the fact that thousands of people die every year for lack of any health care at all. And, many people die under their for-profit health plans because their profit driven company denies them needed treatment.
Every time someone on the right comes up with one of their scare tactics about what will happen if we have government run health care, remind them that these things are already happening under the for-profit health insurance system. Also remind them of the success rate of Medicare.
July 16th, 2009 at 2:03 pm“Interviewed by the Washington Times, Sen. Tom Coburn (R-OK) was asked if “government-run health care” will “end up killing more people than it saves?” Coburn responded, “Absolutely.”
what the hell does this assclown know? yesterday, he asked sonia sotomayor if it would be ethical to abort a fetus at 38 weeks if it had spina bifida.
call me crazy, but not many doctors i know would “abort” a fetus at nine and a half months.
July 16th, 2009 at 2:03 pmAmazing how concerned Republicans become about killing people when it comes to health care, but didn’t say ‘boo’ when it came to sending soldiers to Iraq
July 16th, 2009 at 2:04 pmRep. Louie Gohmert (R-TX) says, “One in five people have to die because they went to socialized medicine!”
The citizens of Canada, Germany, France, and England would rather die than have a health care system like we have in America.
July 16th, 2009 at 2:04 pmWow.
I haven’t used this phrase in many, many months.
BOO!
Scared?
Vote Republican!
or…
July 16th, 2009 at 2:04 pmDon’t follow Democrats!
.
I WANT
CONGRESS
CARE !
.
July 16th, 2009 at 2:05 pmAmericans will continue to die if health care legislation doesn’t pass. Wingnuts – Tell that to the people filling up emergency rooms because they are unable to see a doctor without insurance!
July 16th, 2009 at 2:06 pmThe beauty of the Republican Dream of American Exceptionalism. We can afford to spend twice what any other industrialized country does on health care, have a shorter life expectancy and export our jobs overseas so that these ’socialized’ countries compete in the global market while our economy tanks.
It is looking like the only two places the rest of the world considers us exceptional is in the arrogance and stupidity categories.
July 16th, 2009 at 2:06 pmLefty Liberal says:
When members of Congress give up their tax-payer funded health care and have to buy their insurance on the open market, then they can talk about how a public plan is “killing people”.
Until then shut your traps and fix the problem!
You took the words right out of my mouth. Isn’t what the so-called Republican Senator’s health care provided by the government? Hasn’t John McCain been receiving government run health care since he was born? How stupid are those who follow these idiots? THEY ARE RECEIVEING GOVERNMENT RUN HEALT CARE! And I bet not one would ever give it up. I whole-heartedly agree, STFU already.
RIP
July 16th, 2009 at 2:06 pmSGT Stephen R. Sherman
C CO 1-5 IN (STRYKER)
KIA 3 Feb 2005
Mosul, Iraq
dr. matt@#8,
July 16th, 2009 at 2:06 pmdid they lock up orly taint zone for sedition for good measure?
Dr. Hussein Matt says:
O/T: Soldier’s suit against Obama presidency dismissed
This soldier volunteered for duty in Afghanistan solely for the purpose of being able to then file suit that he should not be sent because Obama was not a citizen. He was looking for his 15 minutes of fame. What he got was a slap down and becoming unemployed. He worked for a defense contractor and once he sued our government, his employment was terminated.
July 16th, 2009 at 2:07 pmOdd how repukes don’t let these things called facts stand in their way.
These waiting lines that dumbfu(k speaks of, would that be the lines of people who for the first time in their lives have affordable healthcare? Why do right-wingers hate the uninsured?
July 16th, 2009 at 2:10 pmcall me crazy, but not many doctors i know would “abort” a fetus at nine and a half months.
Ok, you’re crazy. Hey, you asked. But not as crazy as the math impaired senator.
July 16th, 2009 at 2:10 pmRepublican thinking on health care:
a govt agency that is accountable to the public is bad
a for-profit corporation that is accountable to stockholders is good
a govt agency whose incentive to stay in operation is the quality of health care provided is bad
a for-profit corporation whose incentive to stay in operation is to deny health care is good
July 16th, 2009 at 2:12 pm.
Dear G(no)P,
Americans ARE already dying without Health Care.
XXOO
America
p.s.
Denying Health Care coverage leads people down that path toward untimely death. How does that parse with your Pro-Life stance?
.
July 16th, 2009 at 2:12 pmA Patriotic Anopheles Acting says:
Maybe that’s the true reason behind Republiscum obstruction, they don’t want us huddled masses clogging up their doctor’s lines with our medical needs.
So, here’s an idea: make the job of representing your State/District an Independent Contractor. Paid by the hour. No benefits. No retirement. Absolutely squat.
Then let’s see who runs in the next election.
July 16th, 2009 at 2:13 pmthey aren’t pro-life, max, they are anti-choice
July 16th, 2009 at 2:13 pmHoodathunktick@24,
July 16th, 2009 at 2:14 pmyou got jokes today, huh? :)
Thanks BHB @ 21. Now he will get a dishonorable charge as well. What a (in the words of Fred Sanford) “big dummy.”
July 16th, 2009 at 2:14 pmNow that Obama and the Dems have pushed back on health care, the lobbyists are going to go on the attack with ads on TV while the Republicans fear monger. One of the components of any Dem ads should be to use them to expose the Republicans who are taking money from the insurance industry. These Republicans may end up with a backlash from voters who will be angry. The Dems should beat them over the head with the lobbyists money just like the Harry and Louise commercials.
July 16th, 2009 at 2:14 pmTommy,
July 16th, 2009 at 2:15 pmThat’s right…
… The Right to Life ends after birth.
Tired Of Fighting says: …
Not only do the members of congress get their health care coverage while they are in office, they continue to receive it after they leave office. That is the part that really gets to me.
If I leave my job, and IF I have health insurance provided by my employer and I want to keep it, I can only do so for 18 months and have to pay the full premium plus a 4% “administration fee) to my old employer.
As Max Anax junius -1 so eloquently puts it: “I WANT CONGRESS CARE”!
July 16th, 2009 at 2:16 pmDr. Hussein Matt says:
Just a few things Major Kook will have to worry about over the next few weeks:
Sadly, I suspect this may all just go away. The judge dismissed the case because the orders had been revoked, not for the frivolousness of the case or any level of contempt.
I still really wish they’d throw the book at him. I am all for setting an example with this one. How soon until he starts singing a different tune, that he was “used” by the righties to test the waters?
July 16th, 2009 at 2:16 pmLefty,
July 16th, 2009 at 2:20 pmOne could argue; The General Welfare of the Nation requires it…
… NO?
Lefty Liberal says:
If I leave my job, and IF I have health insurance provided by my employer and I want to keep it, I can only do so for 18 months and have to pay the full premium plus a 4% “administration fee) to my old employer.
Thankfully, one of the great positives – with immediate impact – of the stimulus package is the break recently unemployed workers have with COBRA. They are eligible to apply and only have to pay (if they qualify…) for 35% of their premium for that 18 month period. Still not Congress care, but it’s a big thing to those who have lost their jobs…and not something the righties want publicized.
“As an employer who is potentially impacted by this legislation, prompt attention must be paid to the substantial requirements under the Act and its affect on COBRA. Specifically, the Act provides a 65% government subsidy to employees who are involuntarily terminated between September 1, 2008 and December 31, 2009.” (The American Recovery and Reinvestment Tax Act of 2009)
July 16th, 2009 at 2:21 pmSmall businesses would be the primary beneficiary of a single payer health care plan. No longer required to provide health insurance to lure the best employees, they can now hire more people, creating jobs, as well as increase the salaries (purchasing power) of their current employees.
The only question is: why do Republicans hate small business owners and the people who work for them?
July 16th, 2009 at 2:22 pmRoket says:
Why do right-wingers hate the uninsured?
Because they are poor? It goes against their holy book, the bible. You know those passages where their prophet (profit?) says to kill the poor, let them starve and don’t take care of others in need. /snark
July 16th, 2009 at 2:23 pmWill the public option kill more people than huge political contributions from big pharma and ins. companies are killing now? Recent research from bribed quasi-medical groups shows the suicide rate will increase by a factor of 10 among corrupt Republican legislators if the public option passes. If you are worried about the premature deaths of these “political prostitues” then stop the public option or the blood of the “Whores of the Beltway” will be on the hands of Progressives throughout America.
July 16th, 2009 at 2:23 pmWell, I nearly died from our present healthcare system.
Had 2 stints (heart vein things) put in, doc said I would be good for 30 + years, then the stints Hyper-closed in one month, uh oh, I am in serious trouble, the doc said now I needed a quintuple bypass, the insurance company said that because I had not had a heart attack that I wasn’t covered.
They WANTED me to have a HEART ATTACK FIRST, because you only have a 50% chance of surviving. My doctor called them and explained that the stints caused this and they would be sued if I died by my wife.
Only then did they give in…Private Insurance is for profit, your health is not anything they care about.
Fcuk the Republic Fascist Party and for profit Health Insurance Companies
July 16th, 2009 at 2:23 pmWe constantly miss the real issue. This will appear on the news. This will appear in newsprint. It will be on the radio and through conservative talk shows. However, no one calls them out on the lies. One in five die? Is Gohmert really suggesting that 20% of the population of Canada and England will die because they have “socialized” medicine? Why are we not calling them out on this stupidity and why are we not demanding that they substantiate this total bull shit with references?
July 16th, 2009 at 2:24 pmThanks barracks9 for that update. I hadn’t caught that news yet. That is good for the people that have been laid off, but even the 35% can be a problem.
July 16th, 2009 at 2:25 pmVisualize socialized healthcare taking the republic party down to the socialism river, and holding its predatory capitalistic head underwater until it stops thrashing.
It’s quite sickening imagining this not happening.
July 16th, 2009 at 2:27 pmShouldn’t the title of this thread read:
Republicans will die if health care doesn’t pass
July 16th, 2009 at 2:27 pmMax Anax junius -1 says:
Lefty,
One could argue; The General Welfare of the Nation requires it…
… NO?
I would, and so would many other Progressives. The problem is that the word “welfare” didn’t mean the same thing in the 1700’s as it does today. The word welfare back then was a much more general concept of providing a stable political environment. But things change and the Constitution can and should be interpreted with 21st century thinking.
July 16th, 2009 at 2:31 pmLefty Liberal says:
If I leave my job, and IF I have health insurance provided by my employer and I want to keep it, I can only do so for 18 months and have to pay the full premium plus a 4% “administration fee) to my old employer.
Actually, that’s not exactly true. Part of President Obama’s stimulus plan was a subsidy of Cobra for 9 months. Right now I am paying 35% of my premium and the federal government is paying 65%. I am going to be screwed when that subsidy ends because I can’t afford a $550 a month insurance payment on unemployment and certainly won’t be able to afford it when I take early retirement in January if I can’t find a job.
July 16th, 2009 at 2:31 pmRight now small businesses and their employees are paying out money to support the insurance companies. Every year, those premiums rise. That money, put into a public option would easily fund the plan without the constant increases caused by ‘profit margins.’
The only difference would be that the money would go to health care not bonuses and BMWs.
July 16th, 2009 at 2:32 pmLefty Liberal says:
That is good for the people that have been laid off, but even the 35% can be a problem.
Agreed – it’s better than nothing, but still not great.
July 16th, 2009 at 2:32 pmUncle Ho says:
Shouldn’t the title of this thread read:
Republicans will die if health care doesn’t pass
More like: Republicans will die out if health care passes.
They are terrified because they don’t know where the elephant graveyard is.
July 16th, 2009 at 2:34 pmBilbo Hussein Baggins,
Yeah, I was corrected on that. I think that it is great that COBRA was changed, but like you pointed out, it isn’t enough.
July 16th, 2009 at 2:35 pmRantingTommy says:
Small businesses would be the primary beneficiary of a single payer health care plan.
All businesses would be the beneficiary of a single payer health plan. No having to provide health insurance on their employees will make US companies much more competitive with nations who already have universal health care. That’s why it confuses me that US corporations are against a single payer health care plan. How does having to pay escalating health care premiums year after year help their bottom line? It doesn’t…so why are they so set against single payer health care?
July 16th, 2009 at 2:37 pmLefty Liberal says:
Bilbo Hussein Baggins,
Yeah, I was corrected on that. I think that it is great that COBRA was changed, but like you pointed out, it isn’t enough.
I’m hoping that the Democrats and Obama extend the subsidy as a way of helping the economy, otherwise I am going to be royally screwed in January. I have never been without health insurance and the thought of it scares the begeezes out of me. I am a healthy 61 years old and rarely see the doctor. BUT, all it would take would be one major health incident while uninsured to wipe me out and that scares me to death.
July 16th, 2009 at 2:40 pmRep. Steve King (R-IA): People die when they’re in line.”
Rep. Louie Gohmert (R-TX): “One in five people have to die because they went to socialized medicine!
Congressmen King and Gohmert, remember, 20,000 Americans die each year for lack of healthcare! That’s six 9/11’s in deaths EVERY year without socialized medicine!
INVEST in Universal Single Payer Health Care, it lasts a lifetime!
Without a PUBLIC OPTION, there is NO health care reform!
July 16th, 2009 at 2:42 pmI don’t want to wait until there is a mushroom cloud over an American city to tell us Saddam had WMD’s.
Wait, wrong scare-tactic talking points….
July 16th, 2009 at 2:44 pmBut.. but… that’s only because Americans marry other species and are not pure race, like Cuba or Singapore!
July 16th, 2009 at 2:44 pm/sarc off
Funny Story…
The HR person for a big corporation goes into a meet with employees to discuss this years Sickness & Injury insurance plan.
The HR person starts of the meeting with “I’ve got some good news and I’ve got some bad news.”
The employees look puzzled and there is murmuring in the room as they don’t know what to expect.
The HR person go on “Let me give you the bad news first. This years coverage will cost you more, the co-pays will be higher, the deductables will also increase and what is covered will be sharply decreased, AND there will be a new $100 a month surcharge for working spouses who also have access to coverage at their workplace but are carried on our plan.”
Now the employees are riled, the murmuring has risen to a din with some employees getting visibility angry over what has been happening year after year to their benefits.
The HR person sensing the anger tries to calm the employees with “But wait, I have good news too. The good news is this years coverage is way better than next years coverage.”
Funny, right?????
July 16th, 2009 at 2:46 pmWhen members of Congress give up their tax-payer funded health care and have to buy their insurance on the open market, then they can talk about how a public plan is “killing people”.
July 16th, 2009 at 2:47 pm.
IIRC, didn’t the Repubs add something to the bill under consideration, specifying that members of Congress had to enroll in the public plan when it became available? The goal was to get them to vote against the bill because of that provision. Only thing is, the leadership called their bluff and it was included in the vote – and passed.
.
Now, the hope by those GOPers who wanted to scuttle it is that the particular rider will be removed during negotiations with the House.
.
Talk about sweet justice if, somehow, that provision manages to stay intact. I think it would guarantee that the public plan would be Robust (cap intended).
.
And, best of all, it would be a GOPer who offered it as an amendment.
One of the biggest burdens on the US automotive industry is legacy health care costs. Retired autoworkers who have to be supported in an environment where the cost of their health care increases every year. This is true of every company that has the decency to support the workers who make their companies possible.
July 16th, 2009 at 2:48 pmThe doom-and-gloom machine is certainly running at full tilt. I am amused at Rep. Gohmert’s assertion that “one in five people have to die”. I got news for him — FIVE in five people have to die. Everybody will die at some point. The question is when and how. And right now, far too many people are dying earlier than they would otherwise because they aren’t getting proper health care to realize their full life expectancy.
And then there’s Rep. King, who never disappoints in the stupidity department. He’s trying to suggest that we’re all going to die waiting in a long line for health care, like they do in Canada and England. There are only two problems with his statement — first, the people in these places really don’t wait any longer than we do for health care (except for the occasional cherry-picked instance of somebody who had to wait a long time to get an appointment with a specialist — that happens from time to time here, too, with people who have private insurance). And second, the health care reform President Obama is proposing isn’t a universal single-payer plan as these countries have. He’s proposing a public plan option to compete with private insurance. People who like their private insurance don’t have to change a thing.
To both these gentlemen, I give a woman who lives in a town neighboring mine. She wrote a great column in our local paper about her struggle to get a simple stomach ailment diagnosed and treated with the health care system here (and we pride ourselves on having great medical facilities here in the NC Triangle). She eventually got so fed up she went to Russia for her treatment.
http://www.newsobserver.com/opinion/columns/story/1607332.html
We have plenty of boogeymen in our system now. I am immune to the fearmongering.
July 16th, 2009 at 2:51 pmGregor, we’re not only marrying other species, we’re marrying other ethnics.
Brian Kilmeade, FuxNews Anthropologist in Chief, says:
Was he channeling Santorum:
No wonder Americans spend so much on healthcare, and have such short life expectancy. It’s sad, really.
PEACE
July 16th, 2009 at 2:59 pmRepublicans are pathological liars as has been proven over and over and over again. Anyone who believes this rhetoric is a fool. Good thing they are going to lose and reform will pass.
July 16th, 2009 at 3:05 pmAnybody who is waiting more than couple days for an appointment with a specialist is in line *right now*. I don’t know about your health insurance, but I’m certainly finding that I need to wait in line for just about any procedure I have.
July 16th, 2009 at 3:10 pmpags2 says:
Now that Obama and the Dems have pushed back on health care, the lobbyists are going to go on the attack with ads on TV while the Republicans fear monger. One of the components of any Dem ads should be to use them to expose the Republicans who are taking money from the insurance industry. These Republicans may end up with a backlash from voters who will be angry. The Dems should beat them over the head with the lobbyists money just like the Harry and Louise commercials.
I agree, but not just the Republicans being paid off. The Democrats also. For example, Baucus and several other “moderate” Democrats.
Regarding COBRA, if the bill actually passes that would help, but hardly really solves the problem. My son was on Cobra, but because notice of a rate increase was lost in the mail and the usual payment was made, they cancelled him. I fought like hell, and managed to get him reinstated. But now he has no insurance. He has several pre-existing conditions (like asthma) and insurance companies either won’t insure him at all, or they want about $1,000/month with huge deductibles. Neither he nor I can even begin to afford that.
For these jerks to claim that even a public plan (as watered down as it’s likely to be) will result in “people dying.” Frankly, if the Democrats REALLY want this to pass, they’ll counter that with real stories of people who ARE dying because they either have no insurance at all (47 million of them), or are underinsured, or their insurer denies coverage with claims of “experimental treatment (like liver transplant…not!), or recinds peoples’ policies period if they get “too sick.” Put the numbers of people who go bankrupt due to medical bills, including losing their homes, into that information. And the cost of providing care in emergency rooms for the uninsured, which the insured actually wind of paying for through increased premium, deductibles, co-pays, etc. And the cost of neglecting primary care because of no insurance and then a cancer is diagnosed. Death or bankruptcy, maybe both.
People have such a knee-jerk reaction to increased taxes…but if a family is paying $1,000 per month for medical insurance, with a $500 deductable, and co-pays that are usually 10%-20% of care, it needs to be shown that even a sizable tax increase will be far LESS and they don’t have to worry about annual or lifetime caps on care in major or catastrophic illnesses. Or bankruptcy. Or possibly lack of treatment and possible death if they lose their (private) insurance coverage for any reason, which is the case now. Ultimately, there is really only one reform that will actually create universal coverage, and that is single-payer. Capitalism and profit should NOT be at the table when it comes to the health of those in the U.S., and it’s way past time to take its chair away.
July 16th, 2009 at 3:11 pmWhat’s next? If health care passes the terrorists win?
July 16th, 2009 at 3:15 pmThe following names can be linked for contact info @
from billpressshow.com:
Health Care: The Public Plan Option
These Democratic Senators have NOT agreed to support it:
Senator Blanche Lincoln (D-AR)
Senator Tom Carper (D-DE)
Senator Maria Cantwell (D-WA)
Senator Ron Wyden (D-OR)
Senator Bill Nelson (D-FL)
Senator Ben Nelson (D-NE)
Senator Mary Landrieu (D-LA)
Senator Kent Conrad (D-ND)
Senator Max Baucus (D-MT)
Senator Dianne Feinstein (D-CA)
Senator Evan Bayh (D-IN)
Senator Mark Pryor (D-AR)
Senator Joe Lieberman (I-CT)
These names are reported by The Hill here and here
Update: Senator Kay Hagan (D-NC) says she supports a public option.
Update: Senator Jeff Binghaman (D-NM) says he supports a public option.
You can also contact the White House and voice your opinion
July 16th, 2009 at 3:19 pmComments: 202-456-1111
Switchboard: 202-456-1414
Right-Wing Escalates Fear-Mongering Rhetoric: Warns Americans Will Die If Health Care Reform Passes
When a decent health care system does pass and the public sees the stories of a better health care system from all other industrialized nations are true the GOP will go down in flames for these remembered outrageous LIES.
July 16th, 2009 at 3:34 pmRep. Louie Gohmert (R-TX): “One in five people have to die because they went to socialized medicine!
Wow, Republicans in the Senate should be scared! That means 8 of them are going to die because all 40 currently have socialzied health care!
July 16th, 2009 at 3:34 pmGood lord…these reich-wingers are really losing it.
July 16th, 2009 at 3:48 pmI see watchdung is back to his old self.
I though about your problem with your family and friends, you know, not liking you. Yesterday, when you were “debating”, you consistantly failed to acknowldge arguments which completely invalidated your point of view. When someone proves you wrong, you just go on as if it never happened.
People really hate that.
July 16th, 2009 at 3:50 pmmisscoleopteramolly says: (emphasis added)
Compete? Really?
http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=332548165656854
…
…
Strange definition of “compete” you have there.
Later,
July 16th, 2009 at 3:52 pmGood, I hope it does kill the beast.
July 16th, 2009 at 3:59 pmWatchpup, what part of your small and diminishing conscience says that people getting rich from other people’s suffering is a good thing for a decent moral country?
July 16th, 2009 at 4:09 pmAnd notice, I didn’t say making money. I said getting rich.
July 16th, 2009 at 4:09 pm#68 watchdog -
In your post you gave reports of so called problems in medicare- a program of which most if not all who have it would not trade.
But you failed to give a solution to the 50 million uninsured, the rising medical cost creating 60% of bankruptcies, the burden to business and the needless deaths of 20 to 40 thousand that die annually due to no access to health care.
Surly you must agree our present solution is unacceptable.
So, what is your solution?
July 16th, 2009 at 4:17 pmWhen “the man” is raking 40% profit by denying quality care, he should have it stuck to him.
July 16th, 2009 at 4:31 pmOur present health care system is a form of extortion.
def. of extortion:
1. an act or instance of extorting.
2. Law. the crime of obtaining money or some other thing of value by the abuse of one’s office or authority.
3. oppressive or illegal exaction, as of excessive price or interest: the extortions of usurers.
4. anything extorted.
July 16th, 2009 at 4:33 pm
He susbscribes to the Republican plan, let them die and reduce the surplus population.
July 16th, 2009 at 4:33 pmI have always believed that every politician should have an opportunity to publicly make a fool of him or herself. It appears Republicans want more than one opportunity.
July 16th, 2009 at 4:35 pmwatchdog, I know you will ignore this question, but I’ll ask anyway.
Why do you suppose all of the Republicans in Congress continue to use a government subsidized public option for their health insurance? No one is forcing them to use socialized health care.
July 16th, 2009 at 4:38 pmwatchdog, then you’ll rail against the 20-30% that goes to overhead and advertising by our private insurance companies, right?
July 16th, 2009 at 4:45 pm78 watchdog -
you failed to mention a public health care or single payer system as we are the only industrialized nation that does not provide it.
You said: I think we can lower health care cost with out completely eliminating the private market.
No one is talking about eliminating the private market. And I would think most conservatives would welcome a public health care system for competition as isn’t that the supposed mindset?
July 16th, 2009 at 4:46 pmCicero says
July 16th, 2009 at 3:52 pm
___________________________________________________________
Interesting. I had not heard that the bill mandated that private insurance companies quit signing people up, effectively driving them out of business and not even giving them a chance in the marketplace.
Alarmed, I did some investigating. A Google search revealed pretty much a number of wingnut blogs, all quoting the same Investor’s Business Daily column you did — all with righteous indignation about how the health care bill itself is going to put private insurers out of business.
So I decided to look up the actual text myself and see what I could make out of it (for anyone who wants to follow along, here’s the PDF — http://energycommerce.house.gov/Press_111/20090714/aahca.pdf).
Sure enough, there’s the paragraph you mention. On Page 16. It’s Section 102, paragraph (a), subparagraph (1), sub-subparagraph (A). However, if you go back and look at the leading paragraph (a), you will see this section is talking about grandfathering existing insureds.
Grandfathering from what? I wondered. So I backed up a little bit more, to Section 101 (beginning on Page 14) and found this:
“(a) PURPOSE. — The purpose of this title is to establish standards to ensure that new health insurance coverage and employment-based health plans that are offered meet standards guaranteeing access to affordable coverage, essential benefits, and other consumer protections.”
The rest of the section gives more information about requirements to be a “qualified health benefits plan” (if you want to see the detail of Subtitles B, C, and D, they’re on Page 6).
The paragraph you point out just refers to existing policies. Insurance companies will not be required to drop existing policyholders. It’s just that if they want to sign up new ones after this legislation goes into effect, they must meet certain standards ensuring they aren’t ripping off the public.
It does NOT mean they can’t sign anybody up at all, and it does NOT mean they are automatically put out of business. And yes — people who have insurance with a private insurer can certainly change plans and change companies.
Next time you hear something this absurd, would you mind checking it out before you take up space here with it?
July 16th, 2009 at 4:49 pmI don’t think you want to use Lewin Group for an unbiased source:
Lewin group linked to private insurers
Apr. 17th, 2009 by Andrew Van Dam
Filed under: Conflicts of interest, Health journalism, Hot Health Headline
In the Columbia Journalism Review, Trudy Lieberman, president of AHCJ’s board of directors, scolded journalists for not mentioning that Lewin Group, the consultants who released a recent study claiming that a public insurance option would cost doctors and hospitals money, is ultimately part of a major insurance company.
(Lewin Group is) part of Ingenix, which is owned by United Healthcare Group, the insurance behemoth that has been buying up insurance companies left and right, expanding its reach into just about every segment of the health-insurance market. Its flagship, UnitedHealthcare, helps make it the largest health insurer in the country. It’s a safe bet that United is not too keen on a public plan that might shrink its business.
July 16th, 2009 at 4:54 pmIt’s not free to them. They pay about 30% into a government health care plan called a PUBLIC OPTION. The rest is subsidized by the government. You should be outraged that these Republicans are acting like socialists.
Man up and call your Republican representitives today and demand that they stop using socialized health care.
Otherwise STFU.
July 16th, 2009 at 4:55 pmwatchdog says:
A public plan would not improve the private market; it would do just the opposite. According to a 2009 Lewin Group study, if the public plan’s reimbursement rates are similar to Medicare, an estimated 119 million people will shift from private insurance to the public plan. And this would completely eliminate private health care.
Duh. That’s the goal. Private insurance cannot deliver the best health care at the lowest cost. Single payer systems have proven better everywhere. Private health insurance SHOULD die. A public option will win on the merits.
July 16th, 2009 at 5:09 pmVerbalKint says
July 16th, 2009 at 5:09 pm
Duh. That’s the goal. Private insurance cannot deliver the best health care at the lowest cost. Single payer systems have proven better everywhere. Private health insurance SHOULD die. A public option will win on the merits.
__________________________________________________________
It’s pointless to argue with people like watchdog. They can only parrot the talking points they’re given, which is why they tend to give us such wildly incongruent statements as “private companies are far more efficient and cost-effective than the government” and “a government plan will put private insurers out of business” (a rational person would see these statements are diametrically opposed).
And when pressed on why the bloated, inefficient government that can’t seem to do anything without screwing it up would “put private insurers out of business”, the answer is always that the government will do it by cheating. It never occurs to them that the goverment will do it without the need to make a profit, the need for an obscene advertising budget, and the need to pay gazillions of dollars to lobbyists.
This is playground talk by poor sports. They always claim the other team can’t hit, run, pitch, or field. But if they’re ahead, it’s only because they cheat.
July 16th, 2009 at 5:20 pm# 92 watchdog says
A public plan would not improve the private market; it would do just the opposite.
Oh my, what are we to do if the private health care insurance companies could no longer extort money?
July 16th, 2009 at 5:22 pmOdd. Common sense tells me that people die more if they don’t get care because they can’t afford it. Also, isn’t there a something like a triage system? Somehow I think the gunshot victim is gonna be seen before the guy with the cold, no matter *where* in line each is standing.
Rep. Louie Gohmert (R-TX): “One in five people have to die because they went to socialized medicine! … I would hate to think that among five women, one of ‘em is gonna die because we go to socialized care.”
OMG! 20% of population of England, Canada, Germany, etc, die because they have to wait in a line for health care?! Wow! That’s QUITE the epidemic!
July 16th, 2009 at 5:24 pmUCSBKitty says:
watchdog, then you’ll rail against the 20-30% that goes to overhead and advertising by our private insurance companies, right?
According to a 2009 Lewin Group study, Medicare’s current reimbursement policies pay hospitals only 71% of private rates and doctors 81%. To quantify, a 2006 Milliman study found that Medicare ultimately shifts an average of $88.8 billion to the private market each year. according to these studies government has contributed to a some of the increased cost we are incurring now.
don’t dodge the question…answer it.
July 16th, 2009 at 5:24 pmmisscoleopteramolly says:
And of course we’re going to trust the government to come up with rules that are fair and promote competition with insurance companies.
(By the way, I also looked up the bill, I went here to see it.)
You mean HR3200? Yes, I agree it is quite absurd.
Later,
July 16th, 2009 at 5:25 pmAs I’ve said before, if Repubs didn’t have fear & hate, they’d have nothing. Examine all their comments since Obama was elected: Repubs have offered no vision, no assistance, no alternatives, no direction for the country. They have, ironically, offered “no!!” to everything, but just that monosyllabic response. Until Repubs actually offer any positive, researched, well thought out ideas while they whine, screech, & cry, why do we care about them? The biggest irony of all?? — they just don’t get the fact that they continue to come across as bullying, empty, racist, anti-American & anti-Constitution losers. They fuel the hatred & violence of their 20% base, & alienate everyone else.
July 16th, 2009 at 5:31 pmCicero says
July 16th, 2009 at 5:25 pm
__________________________________________________________
Nice game of Twister you’re playing. I was responding to your original point, where you said:
“What wasn’t known until now is that the bill itself will kill the market for private individual coverage by not letting any new policies be written after the public option becomes law.”
Which, by the way, weren’t even your own words. But even so, I debunked the assertion that the bill wasn’t going to allow for any new policies written after the public option goes into effect. That assertion was completely false, and I totally pwned you with facts.
So now, you’re making the argument of “And of course we’re going to trust the government to come up with rules that are fair and promote competition with insurance companies.” In other words, move from left-foot-yellow to right-hand-blue.
Well, since the government isn’t tying the private insurers down with regulations that don’t also apply to them — yes, I see competition is possible if the private insurers are willing to give up being the piggy greedheads they are now. Much in the way UPS and FedEx compete successfully with the U.S. Post Office, even though they still have to follow many of the same regulations.
You claim to have read the text of the bill. Obviously you haven’t, or you wouldn’t be making such false claims about what’s in it. (I checked the link you provided — it doesn’t work.)
Unfortunately, I must leave now — but I’m sure there are others here who can effortlessly beat down any other lame point you wish to make about how supposedly awful health care reform is.
And I hope you never lose your job and your insurance, and find you can’t get insured anywhere else due to a pre-existing condition, even if you could afford to spend half your income on premiums.
July 16th, 2009 at 5:55 pmRepublicans are starting to realize that they’re losing the argument on Health Care so they fall back on all they really have in lieu of actual ideas….fear mongering. It’s frighteningly childish and morally shady but that has never stopped that Party before.
July 16th, 2009 at 6:00 pmI still think the nation needs but one healthcare
system:
I go to any doctor I want, get any test I want,
100% free, free life-time care, no deductible,
my family covered 100%.. no out-of-pockets
expenses what-so-ever…
What is this program? Just a member of congress
July 16th, 2009 at 6:11 pmbenefit.. I think this is the program for me!
There is empirical evidence in the Congressional Record that Republicans are simply repeating the same phrases over and over again.
http://axisofreason.com/2009/07/16/republicans-real-health-reform-strategy/
July 16th, 2009 at 6:38 pmSee also the 2007 McKinsey Study
http://axisofreason.com/2009/06/12/conservatives-contradiction-on-health-care-competition/
A 2007 McKinsey study compared U.S. health care costs to health care costs of 13 comparable countries. McKinsey concluded that the U.S health care system is intrinsically more expensive due to: 1) higher cost of inputs, such as labor, drugs and supplies and the private nature of providers 2) operational inefficiencies and complexities and 3) higher costs of administration, regulation and intermediation.
The report notes that US per capita spending on health care administration and insurance is six times higher than the average in peer countries. It would be even higher if the administrative costs of compliance for hospitals and physicians and the human resource department expensese for businesses were included.
http://axisofreason.com/2009/06/12/conservatives-contradiction-on-health-care-competition/
July 16th, 2009 at 6:41 pmAnd you guys think the government can do better. Rembember, this is the same government that handles AMTRAK, Social Security, DMV and the Post Office.
July 16th, 2009 at 6:57 pmYou really want them to handle your health care and make the decisions for you.
I really don’t know why we are arguing about all of this. Nobody knows what is in the bill and none of our representatives are even going to read it.
watchdog says:
What evidence makes you think complexly eliminating private run heath insurance will be the best choice for this country?
And what evidence do you have showing that private run health insurance IS the best choice for this country. All the evidence I have seen says it is not.
July 16th, 2009 at 7:01 pmblclem says:
And you guys think the government can do better. Rembember, this is the same government that handles AMTRAK, Social Security, DMV and the Post Office.
You really want them to handle your health care and make the decisions for you.
Medicare is a government run health care system. It works just fine. And the government DOES NOT make decisions for the patient. The doctor makes decisions for the patient. Unlike the for-profit health insurance system where a bureaucrat who is paid a bonus for denying care makes decisions as to what treatment you will receive.
You are woefully misinformed.
As far as not reading the bill, I’m quite sure that you side won’t read it, but the Democrats will. They are the only party that is remotely interested in doing what’s right for the people in this country.
July 16th, 2009 at 7:03 pmwatchdog says:
A public plan would not improve the private market; it would do just the opposite. According to a 2009 Lewin Group study, if the public plan’s reimbursement rates are similar to Medicare, an estimated 119 million people will shift from private insurance to the public plan. And this would completely eliminate private health care.
Too bad so sad. If they can’t compete, then they should go out of business. They will just have to stop spending 30% on overhead (bonuses, sky-high management salaries, advertising, etc) and put that money back into health care. They will also have to stop discriminating against people because of their age or pre-existing conditions.
I thought you righties were all about the free market and competition. Why is it that you feel the for-profit health insurance industry should be protected from competition?
July 16th, 2009 at 7:12 pmblclem says:
And you guys think the government can do better. Rembember, this is the same government that handles AMTRAK, Social Security, DMV and the Post Office.
You really want them to handle your health care and make the decisions for you.
Ummmm–the government does not make your health care decisions in the public option. That is a bogus argument by the Republicans and insurance companies who are trying to protect their profits. A public option lets people choose another option, but private insurance companies will have to compete with the premiums and quality. People are not going to pay high premiums for the same service when the public option is there. This also makes it easier for small businesses to get health care because they can afford to help subsidize their employees premiums. This is a win win for small business and people.
July 16th, 2009 at 7:19 pmI would like to clear up one small thing. Even the true government-owned and run National Health Service in the UK (the BIG Republican bete noire) has private health insurance competition.
Yes, you can, if you wish, buy health care from a private insurer in London or Birmingham, Glasgow or Cardiff. And there is a private health care system which exists (even flourishes) alongside the public system. Further, a thriving private pharmaceutical industry exists in the UK (Glaxo Smith Kline being just one). So it is undeniable that the destruction of private health insurance and the health industry is not, nor was it ever, the aim of any western government plan. Nor has it ever been an outcome.
Secondly, the notion that all we need is to reform the current private system and all its ills will disappear is completely unproven. The history of health care delivery in the US points exactly the other way.
Free marketeers believe that an economic force is needed to change (that is to reform) the market. For the US to pull out of the black hole that it’s Health Care System has become, a major force is needed. We all must hope that the Public Option will be that force. Either the Private Sector will get better (supplying coverage to the uninsured, working truthfully to control costs, lowering its obscene profit levels and administrative costs) or it will perish. That’s good old-fashioned market force at work.
July 16th, 2009 at 8:06 pmPrivate insurance companies spend billions for denying claims and utilization reviews that will become unnecessary after the law takes effect. They won’t need people to review medical bills, investigate for pre-existing conditions, and coverage issues. The standards for coverage will be the public option so that means a lot of people in the insurance industry will need to find a different job. Private companies will need to streamline their claims processing to stay profitable.
July 16th, 2009 at 9:22 pmReality is…We really can not afford the health benefits and retirement benefits we have given our elected officials…
OK….Effective 8-01-09..all members of the House and Senate are now contract labor……..You will be paid hourly ( No overtime)…and no benefits…
Good Luck
July 16th, 2009 at 10:08 pmOh…and I had to send a package overnight air today…I decied to go to the Post Office and use their Global Package Service..you know the service that COMPETES with UPS, FedEX, DHL…wow goverment competing with the private sector..Guess what….
IT WORKS…Profit brings in competition…competition LOWERS prices….Give us a government plan…you don’t like DON’T BUY IT !!!
July 16th, 2009 at 10:29 pmI guess they went to a new page of the play book, DEATH if the bill passes?
I would be nice if the GOP offered real solutions instead of just opposition to the effort.
July 16th, 2009 at 11:28 pmmisscoleopteramolly says:
Where I quoted from another article, did you not read it?
Again, quoting from another article. You act like you’ve never seen this sort of thing before.
Wow, I’ll bet you feel all important now, right?
You know what, mea culpa, I didn’t read further into the bill (and I did look at the referenced section of the bill, sorry the link expired, here’s a better one from the same site). Private coverage can still be bought within these “Exchange” things. They will “compete” with the public option… of course I do not believe that the rules will be fair.
So that’s about 20 pages into a 1000+ page bill, and I already know the intertubes are buzzing about this controversy. Even with the Exchange option this still looks pretty bad. I wonder what other nasty gems are hiding in this bill. No wonder the Dem congress and Pres. Obama want this rammed thru before anyone can get a chance to read it.
You want to know what the most effective attacks against Hillarycare in 1993 was? Reading the damn bill. The same thing will apply here, that’s why ya’ll are so desperate to rush this thru.
Later,
July 17th, 2009 at 12:43 am# 111
Totally agree…look at my response # 118
The Reality is that the US Healthcare System is funded on an “Employer Based” System that is no longer competitive in a global market.
Question: Please explain why your employer should be involved in this process at all ?
If you are hurt at work or become ill due to conditions “within the “course and scope of employment” you are covered under Workers Compensation. Your group health insurance excludes work related injuries or illness.
A single payer system ” Levels the playing field”..It is a win win
Obviously the rest of the world understands this concept…the US is tooo greedy to implement it. We have a “have or have not” system. The “haves” work for a large organization ( government or near monopoly)..the have nots ( small, mid size , self employed , un employed) are left out to dry and pay for the haves…
We can bomb the wrong country and then provide healthcare for their citizens, while the US can now brag that the # 1 reason for bankruptcy is MEDICAL BILLS.
Is this REALLY a great country ?…or what
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