Bachmann Sees Health Care Debate In Political Terms: ‘We Can Take Heart’ Obama’s ‘Dropping Like A Rock’
Bachmann Sees Health Care Debate In Political Terms: ‘We Can Take Heart’ Obama’s ‘Dropping Like A Rock’
Yesterday, The Conservative Women’s Network hosted Rep. Michele Bachmann (R-MN) for a discussion on critical legislation before Congress. ThinkProgress attended the event and recorded Bachmann’s remarks.
Bachmann fed the crowd a predictable diet of fear-mongering right-wing rhetoric to warn of dire consequences if President Obama’s health care reform passes. “What the Obama administration will do with health care is make us like Havana in 1959 when Castro came in,” she told the young women in the audience.
She then argued that passing health reform will mean that, for the first time in our nation’s history, “we will have taxpayer-subsidized abortion.” The question becomes, continued Bachmann, “will this mandate now that we’ll have to build more abortion mills?”
White House chief of staff Rahm Emanuel said recently that conservatives are viewing the health care debate “in political terms, and they’ve decided that if they can beat the president on health care reform, they’ve scored a big political victory.” Bachmann seemed to stress that very point to her conservative audience:
This is radicalization of America like we have never seen before in the history of our country. But don’t lose heart. Because the polling data is showing — Rasmussen for instance — polling data is showing that President Obama’s numbers are dropping like a rock. As a matter of fact, his polling data now says that President Obama is a mere mortal. (Laughter) And so we can take heart. That is absolutely true.
Listen here:
In an attempt to attack the public health insurance option, Bachmann complained that it would be subsidized, making it more affordable for many Americans. She added, “it would offer equal or better benefits than any plan — but cheaper.” Exactly — that’s the point.
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If she wins next election I’m gonna have to leave MN and head further north
July 25th, 2009 at 11:03 amBachmann: ‘We Can Take Heart’ Obama’s ‘Dropping Like A Rock’
– - Coincidentally, Bachmann is dumber than a rock.
July 25th, 2009 at 11:04 amJebus H. Christ – how I loathe that lunatic!!!
July 25th, 2009 at 11:04 amBachmann is going to turn wicked old looking later on in life like stewardesses on planes I remember. It’s the compression and decompression or something.
July 25th, 2009 at 11:09 amBachmann at TP is like the Michael Jackson coverage on the MSM.
Where’re the progressive issues? What’s so ‘progressive’ about ridiculing republicans?
Why has TP become “ThinkDemocrat?”
Which democrats are scuttling healthcare reform? (forget the republicans, they’ve made themselves irrelevant.)
Why hasn’t Obama kicked out the insurance and pharma
bribeslobbyists like he promised?Why can’t we the people know who is visiting Obama via promised ‘transparency?’
Why is TP opting to post tiresome and pointless irrelevant party jibber-jabber rather than covering the party in power concerning progressive issues?
These questions and more will continue to go unaddressed in favor of cliquish recipes and snark.
July 25th, 2009 at 11:09 am“In an attempt to attack the public health insurance option, Bachmann complained that it would be subsidized, making it more affordable for many Americans. She added, “it would offer equal or better benefits than any plan — but cheaper.”
Then Crazy Shelley concluded with, “How insane is that?”
July 25th, 2009 at 11:09 amThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Someone should ask her to drop her taxpayer paid insurance and to seek insurance on her own and see how she likes it.
A sidebar to this is the post in firedoglake urging readers to contact the White House and urge the President to rescind the health insurance benefits of the Senators, Congressmen, and their staff.
http://seminal.firedoglake.com/diary/6625
As I posted there I have long wanted a constitutional amendment that prevented elected officials from receiving any benefits that aren’t available to their constituents.
July 25th, 2009 at 11:13 amIf Obama’s poll numbers on healthcare are dropping, it’s because it is perceived that he is sacrificing Universal Health care for the sake of the illusion of bipartisanship, i.e. caving to Republicans.
The vast majority of the public does not want what the Republican Party is selling. We’re sick and tired of, well, being sick and tired.
Our health care dollars are going to insurance company profits and lobbying to make sure we don’t get a better health care system.
July 25th, 2009 at 11:14 am“Bachmann complained that it would be subsidized, making it more affordable for many Americans. She added, “it would offer equal or better benefits than any plan — but cheaper.”
Run and hide, America! The baaad President is trying to spend your tax dollars on you. We Republicans are doing everything we can to make sure they are spent overseas blowing places up…you know, where it does you lots more good.
July 25th, 2009 at 11:15 amYes, Universal Health Care would mean taxpayer dollars would fund abortions. But guess what? That’s happinging now.
Granted, there are those who oppose such use of taxpayer money, but I oppose my taxes going to fund illegal wars, torture, spying on American citizens, etc., etc., etc.
July 25th, 2009 at 11:16 amObama’s poll numbers are dropping – maybe because Democrats are sick and tired of Dems caving into the Repugs and the Blue Dogs who still rule the roost.
July 25th, 2009 at 11:17 amForget about repugs – they are not cooperative, will never be cooperative, and will stab you in the back.
Tell the Blue Dogs to either get on board or get out of town.
By the way, thank you, Bachmann, for putting health care back into the spotlight.
July 25th, 2009 at 11:19 amI hate to say it, but there will be no healthcare reform. Too much money involved and our system is too corrupt and rotten. It will take a revolution at some point now for that to happen. Good grief, 70% of Americans want it and still it doesn’t seem to get near there? C’mon.
I hate being so cynical.
July 25th, 2009 at 11:25 am***
michelle reminds me of lee remick
in “a face in the crowd”.
any minute you expect her to
start twirling her flaming batons.
:)
July 25th, 2009 at 11:26 amDropping like a rock? Still a long ways to go to rate evenly with the gop and the likes of bachman….
Right Wingers Flail As Their World Collapses
There is a reason for this leaderless unpopularity. The Bush Administration was an enormous failure.
by the way, despite msm reports, most Americans want a public health care option:
New Poll Shows Tremendous Support for Public Health Care Option
When this all plays out, if there is no health care reform the republics will take the heat for it.
July 25th, 2009 at 11:29 am“What the Obama administration will do with health care is make us like Havana in 1959 when Castro came in,”
Cuba, a “third world nation” has a health care system that is actually better than ours now. In 2000, they were roughly equal on WHO’s list, but unlike us, Cuba has focused on improving their system making sure they have enough doctors per person, and available care.
Why do these arrogant ignorants refuse to spend two minutes doing research before opening their mouths and making fools of themselves over and over again?
July 25th, 2009 at 11:30 amThe only way for healthcare reform is a miracle and there are no miracles anymore according to the RCC and that was only in the movies, anyway.
July 25th, 2009 at 11:30 amWhen this all plays out, if there is no health care reform the republics will take the heat for it.
I lean more towards the idea if health care reform gets revamped to the point where it is less than a band aid on the gaping wound that is bleeding us to death, it will be the Blue Dogs who will catch most of the heat. The Republicans are making all the noise but it is the Blue Dogs pandering to the lobbyists who are throwing the wrench in the works.
July 25th, 2009 at 11:35 amOooooooo K. And that is bad, exactly HOW?
July 25th, 2009 at 11:36 amI’ll take your money Mr Cobb. I will bet that by the end of Obama’s first term that health care issues will have improved by a very great amount.
Even if the insurance companies are still involved they will not be able to deny coverage and bankrupcies over medical bills will not be happening.
There will be reform. Bank on it.
July 25th, 2009 at 11:36 amI hope you’re right, Fred.
July 25th, 2009 at 11:38 amShe added, “it would offer equal or better benefits than any plan — but cheaper.”
She admits this, and yet her base continues to oppose something that will benefit them.
I never cease to be amazed by those 20%ers who will continue to vote against their own best interests because they have completely deluded themselves that they one day will be greedy rich pigs too…
July 25th, 2009 at 11:39 amThis is why substantive debate on TP is a thing of the past.
Posts can be voted down on the basis of capricious prevailing attitude of a small clique of ‘regulars,’ never mind that the substance of the post goes unaddressed.
And the downraters are too cowardly to follow up their votes. Petulance is not a good enough reason.
July 25th, 2009 at 11:40 amIf we don’t get meaningful health care reform, both dems and repugs will burn. Dems will lose a big chunk of their base, who will go third party or just sit on their hands come next election. Obama may come out OK, but I can’t say the same for the Democratic party.
July 25th, 2009 at 11:41 amWouldn’t it be ironic if a handful of Republicans actually stepped up, listened to the public and helped push a meaningful piece of health care reform legislation through?
Right now, it is possible for the Republicans to actually do it. There will be health care reform passed. We may not be satisfied with the first effort but it will open the door to more. The balance of power in the Senate is down to a double handful of votes.
July 25th, 2009 at 11:41 amThe Republicans will NOT kill health care reform.
If Reform fails, it will be because of DEMOCRATS.
FACT: 49 Democratic Congressman are from districts that went for McCain/Palin in 2008.
That’s the Problem.
Obama needs to Inform and Educate Voters…we’re up against a sophisticated and well funded Opposition here.
July 25th, 2009 at 11:43 amhanshiro says:
Posts can be voted down on the basis of capricious prevailing attitude of a small clique of ‘regulars,’ never mind that the substance of the post goes unaddressed.
– - I am of no party or clique. I stemmed the downward trend with a thumb up.
July 25th, 2009 at 11:43 amI am still waiting to hear anyone from the Republican Party, or its supporters and former elected officials, give one, single, coherent, fact-based argument against what the president is trying to do. All I’ve heard so far is lies, distortions, misconceptions about the function and purpose of capitalism in a society, and horror stories based on apples-to-oranges comparisons. The opponents have not presented even one, single, truthful argument in favor of keeping things the way they are.
There are people making billions of dollars off the sick and dying in this country, and Republicans want them to keep making more money.
July 25th, 2009 at 11:44 amFred says: There will be reform. Bank on it.
I saw some statistics that showed that Obama is the most successful Predient thus far in terms of getting his agenda passed. I’m with you, I think there will be the first step in reform.
I agree with everyone who thinks it doesn’t go far enough, but I will take this over nothing, because I think that once people see how much better things are, it’ll be much easier to then take then next steps necessary to get us to single-payer.
The crybabies who lost in 2008 are just making noise. America will be better off in four years. It’s just common sense beased on doing the pragmatic things the Obama Administration is doing. I’d like to see more, but as a realist, I know that this is still a lot of progress from where Bush Co. was taking us.
July 25th, 2009 at 11:45 amOnce again, we cordially invite those who do not like what TP is posting about to go start their own blog and write about the things that concern them. Thank you, and have a nice life.
July 25th, 2009 at 11:48 amhanshiro, what kind of debate would you like to have? Should we debate your crying about what is being posted on this blog? I don’t think to many people are interested in why you don’t like what is being posted. Most normal people, when they see a thread they don’t like, just move on, there really isn’t much to debate.
July 25th, 2009 at 11:48 amhanshiro says: Posts can be voted down on the basis of capricious prevailing attitude of a small clique of ‘regulars,’ never mind that the substance of the post goes unaddressed.
I refuse to press the ‘vote dow’n button. If I don’t like what someone says, I just don’t press the ‘vote up’ button. And trolls can be flagged. I don’t like the concept of it, and have said so before.
July 25th, 2009 at 11:51 amyes it is. You don’t get to decide.
July 25th, 2009 at 11:51 am31. Wayne A. Schneider says: Once again, we cordially invite those who do not like what TP is posting about to go start their own blog and write about the things that concern them. Thank you, and have a nice life.
Tell me, Wayne; since the questions I posed are relevant, current and certainly more pressing then Palin’s idiocy, but off topic based on the available threads, which thread would you suggest such progressive issues be consigned?
I take it criticism here at TP about TP is verboten? It’s out of line to criticize a blog over the lopsided threads lately? Since when?
July 25th, 2009 at 11:55 amI am still waiting to hear anyone from the Republican Party, or its supporters and former elected officials, give one, single, coherent, fact-based argument against what the president is trying to do. All I’ve heard so far is lies, distortions, misconceptions about the function and purpose of capitalism in a society, and horror stories based on apples-to-oranges comparisons. The opponents have not presented even one, single, truthful argument in favor of keeping things the way they are.
They will oppose anything we do and not just for their greed they’re paid for. Their hatred for liberals is because we have made them look like shit humans for years because they are shit and they know it.
July 25th, 2009 at 11:56 am32.angels81 says: hanshiro, what kind of debate would you like to have? Should we debate your crying about what is being posted on this blog?
I see. Stupid utterings of irrelevant politicians are overwhelmingly important to Obama’s bald lying and flip reversals of his promises about such things as transparency and detainee justice.
You need to sort out your priorities.
July 25th, 2009 at 11:57 amOnly when it starts to look like it is your mission statement as in your case.
July 25th, 2009 at 11:57 amWayne A. Schneider says: The opponents have not presented even one, single, truthful argument in favor of keeping things the way they are.
You know it’s because they have nothing.
They remind me of the Catholic Church after Martin Luther nailed his opposition to their gilded door. They figured that he was upset because they weren’t doing enough of their approach (because their approach couldn’t possibly be wrong), so they just turned up the volume on their lavish excesses and built even larger and more ornate cathedrals…
July 25th, 2009 at 11:59 amBachmann and her following are another reason the American public continues to be ‘dumbed down’ daily by these folks that spew hate and lies. It amazes me that there are forums all around that actually BELIEVE her rhetoric and promote causes based on dust…
Hopefully, this women will end up preaching to a snow storm from the balcony of some home for the mentally spent…she is past delusion..she has defined her own reality an is now living there.
July 25th, 2009 at 12:02 pm33. unbelievable says: I refuse to press the ‘vote dow’n button. If I don’t like what someone says, I just don’t press the ‘vote up’ button. And trolls can be flagged. I don’t like the concept of it, and have said so before.
I agree 100%
But you need only look at the questions posed on #5 to see how the current ‘regulars’ regard inconvenient questions and anything smacking of dissent. They vote down because of a power issue and petulance.
That make TP no longer welcoming of opposing the prevailing attitudes. How ‘red state.’
Not because I posted anything incorrect.
July 25th, 2009 at 12:03 pmhanshiro, I live in Minnesota and Bachmann is anything but a irrelevant politician. Also, my concern about health care is a PRIORITY for me.
July 25th, 2009 at 12:06 pmA bit off topic.
Company A just received notice from its employee health insurance carrier HIC notifying it that starting Sept 1st, the premium is going up 25%. Just like that. Out of the blue, no explanations. Take it or leave it.
Now, I have some speculation of my own. But instead I would like to hear if anyone else has had a similar experience or your speculation if the current debate may have anything to do with HIC actions.
July 25th, 2009 at 12:08 pmhanshiro, I didn’t vote you down and consider myself to be a regular here. The only posts I vote down are obvious trolls and hate speech. Like unbelievable said, if I disagree with a comment, I just don’t vote up.
As for discussing an issue or breaking news item that seems important to you, if a thread is not available, try starting the post with “OT, but…” and if others want to comment on your ideas, they will.
I did, however, notice that both you and AJ disappeared when the vote feature was introduced. Why was that? I’ve seen a few posts from you since, and have voted up those that I felt were substantive, but why come here today with a laundry list of complaints about TP, their choice of thread topics, and the community as a whole?
BTW, this post is wholly OT.
PEACE
July 25th, 2009 at 12:14 pm42. angels81 says: hanshiro, I live in Minnesota and Bachmann is anything but a irrelevant politician. Also, my concern about health care is a PRIORITY for me.
I understand that, but Bachmann occupies an inordinate amount of threads at TP and Obama’s shortfall promises and hypocrisy occupy, by comparison, none. Where are the lobbying $$ going to the democrats? Who is getting pharma cash? These are pressing issues in the healthcare debate as well, not Liz Cheney pushing birther imbecility. Progressives are neither republican nor democrat, but “ThinkProgress” just pushes an almost exclusively democratic perspective.
That’s not “Progressive.”
#35 gets another unexplained ‘downrating,’ depite the fact that fair questions were posed.
It only proves my point.
July 25th, 2009 at 12:15 pmBachmann is not the real problem. It is the people who listen and believe her and any other of the crazies. These people are the sort who listen to Fox News as if it were God’s truth. The wackos in politics are attracting the the extremists and the racists who can hide behind the far right rhetoric.
July 25th, 2009 at 12:15 pmRumours floating around in closed Republican closets has it that Miss Michelle is the PPP or “Premiere-Pivot-Person” at the bi-weekly “Circle-Jerk-Offs!” These BI-weekly “comming out” sessions are being held at the “C Street House” for the in-the-closet gay congressmen, who want to experience the other side. These weekly circle jerk-offs provide a way for the men to attempt to reach out to the opposite sex,in a way that they never had in the past!
July 25th, 2009 at 12:16 pmMiss Michelle has been quote as saying “I’d do anything to help relieve the heavy loads that my fellow congressmen have been carrying!”
johnny dol1ar, the private carriers are raising premiums like crazy so they can show, down the road, just how much they’ve cut premiums. They’ve actually been doing it for the past few years.
Providers do the same thing – they sign a contract for a specific payment rate schedule, not a percent of billed charges, then slowly escalate their billed charges so, when it comes time to renegotiate, they can point to the huge discounts they’re already giving the payer.
It’s all total bullshit, much like the “suggest retail price” game that is played on consumers. Make the MSRP 300% of cost, allow the retailer to sell it 200% of cost and the consumer is duped into thinking he got a deal.
A true public option will eliminate the ability of BigHealth to manipulate the market with their price-fixing. If we ever get it…
PEACE
July 25th, 2009 at 12:20 pmhanshiro says:
Tell me, Wayne; since the questions I posed are relevant, current and certainly more pressing then Palin’s idiocy, but off topic based on the available threads, which thread would you suggest such progressive issues be consigned?
I take it criticism here at TP about TP is verboten? It’s out of line to criticize a blog over the lopsided threads lately? Since when?
This thread is about Bachmann’s idiocy. The one about Palin’s idiocy is below this one.
And you have correctly honed in on one important issue – the comments are “off topic based on the available threads.” You do not get to decide which topics TP posts about any more than I do! And if there’s something I think TP should be talking about but isn’t, I’ll write about it on one of my blogs and send an e-mail to TP encouraging them to talk about it, too (and link to my blog). It’s happened to me before and it could happen to you, too, if you would try doing it. But you don’t seem to want to do that.
You mentioned something about Democrats getting in the way of reform. Just a couple of days ago, TP posted a thread on Max Baucus: http://thinkprogress.org/2009/07/23/max-baucus-health-contributions/ . Not good enough for you?
Please try to understand something: This is not your blog. You are not the Editor. You do not decide which topics they will write about. If you showed up at my blog complaining about what I’m not writing about, I would tell you the same thing – start your own blog or go some place else. Nobody is obligated to write about the things you want to discuss. And that is what we are trying to get you to understand.
Many of us have been urging TP to post an Open Thread on weekends. We’ve said it here, and I have e-mailed them about it numerous times. They don’t write back to me about it nor do they acknowledge our comments about it here. The best way to acknowledge it would be to actually put up an Weekend Open Thread on a Saturday morning, but so far they have chosen not to do so. They can do it, they just don’t want to. Which is sad, really, because it would have been a lot easier and cheaper than the buttons, which I and many others do like.
But, hanshiro, by all means, do come here and post a link to your new blog, and I’m sure several people will come by to see what you have to say. Good luck in the future.
July 25th, 2009 at 12:24 pmHow this woman survived re-election in 2008 is stunning. I hope the people of Minnesota wise up and toss her out on her ass.
July 25th, 2009 at 12:24 pmhanshiro, in case you missed it when I first posted, here is the list of WH visitors related to healthcare, based on WH council Greg Craig’s letter:
Angela F. Braly – Pres/CEO WellPoint, Inc.
Richard Clark – CEO Merck
Jay Gellert – Pres/CEO Health Net
George Halvorson – Chairman/CEO Kaiser Permanente
Stephen J. Hemsley – Pres/CEO United Healthcare Group
Karen Ignagni – Pres/CEO AHIP
Jeffrey B. Kindler – Chairman/CEO Pfizer
Thomas Priselac – Pres/CEO Cedars-Sinai Health System
J. James Rohack – Pres/AMA
Rick Smith – Pres/CEO Allocade (health IT)
Wayne T. Smith – CEO Community Health System
Bill Tauzin – Head of Pharmaceutical Lobby
Richard Umbdenstock – Pres/CEO American Hospital Assoc
William C. Weldon – Chairman/CEO Johnson & Johnson
David Nexon – Sr. Exec. VP Advanced Medical Tech Assoc (AdvaMed)
cited as “no visits”:
Ben J. Lipps, MD – Chairman/CEO Fresenius Medical Care AG & Co. KGaA
William A. Hawkins, III – Chairman/CEO Medtronic
Robert L. Parkinson – Chairman/CEO Baxter Intl.
I’m unclear why names of people with “no visits” were listed. Clearly, We the People should be listed under that category!
PEACE
July 25th, 2009 at 12:26 pm44. spencers mom says: hanshiro, I didn’t vote you down and consider myself to be a regular here. The only posts I vote down are obvious trolls and hate speech. Like unbelievable said, if I disagree with a comment, I just don’t vote up.
As well it should be.
As for discussing an issue or breaking news item that seems important to you, if a thread is not available, try starting the post with “OT, but…” and if others want to comment on your ideas, they will.
SM, I think you realize that a certain group will descend on posters they don’t like, however cordial the approach. I’ve witnessed fair questions get ignored in favor of a completely uncalled-for bums rush and ad hom firestorm.
I did, however, notice that both you and AJ disappeared when the vote feature was introduced. Why was that?
I can’t speak for Joe, but I left out of disgust. The other reason was the rating system allows a small clique of buddies to control the dialogue and debate on TP. Look to question #5 for spectacular proof of that statement.
Look at how Joe was treated, with insinuations and outright lies and stupidity to answer perhaps why he left; despite some decent questions posed by him. The zoo clique and dbadass are responsible for the harassment; even to the point of claiming I was Joe. None of the crap I’ve been accused of by them is remotely true, but they prefer to attack the poster, not the post.
July 25th, 2009 at 12:26 pmAs a matter of fact, his polling data now says that President Obama is a mere mortal. (Laughter) And so we can take heart.
Don’t any of these people from the party of NO and supposed law makers have any thoughts or comments on how to fix this mess their party and Bush left US? The obsession over bringing Obama down rather than helping the American people recover is mind boggling. Just as mind boggling as their endless extra marital affairs while claiming to be the party of values.
July 25th, 2009 at 12:28 pmHow do you know it’s the regulars? Seems like a lot of people voted you down on that. Ask yourself why. You like to think of yourself as intelligent, more intelligent than we are so….think.
Dissent is not whining about how a blog is run. Get your own if you want to run it.
You post no inconvenient questions. You just harp.
bachman has injected herself into the health care debate and we have a right to discuss it because it’s important to us. Just because it’s not important to you doesn’t give you the right to tell us what is important to us.
You could make your point in one post which will be voted down and then you could enter the discussion. You chose not to take that option and are surpised when people don’t kiss your a$$? Especially when you are so condescending and superior in your attitude.
Try being part of a community instead of standing on the sidelines flinging feces at those of us who are trying to discuss current events.
July 25th, 2009 at 12:31 pmHas anyone ever done a ranking of crazy-ass Republican lawmakers and just where Bachmann lies on that list? It may be surprising that she may not be the worst wingnut in the world, but she’s definitely up there.
Seriously someone should conjure up a list with criteria like crazy legislation, dumbass comments, offensive comments etc … each weighted appropriately. I’m sure we’ll even find a handful of Dems/liberals on that list.
July 25th, 2009 at 12:36 pmHaven’t had opportunity to read previous posts yet, but keep in mind that a Rasmussen poll is no better than a FOX poll. Notice that FOX mouth breathers and right wing talk radio are always quoting Rasmussen.
July 25th, 2009 at 12:37 pmIn typical Limbaugh disrespect for his audience, yesterday, after quoting that 49% for Obama and to try to give credibilty to Rasmussen, boldly lied and said that Rasmussen was most correct in predicting the 2008 general election.
That’s pure bullsh¡t.
49.Wayne A. Schneider says: But, hanshiro, by all means, do come here and post a link to your new blog, and I’m sure several people will come by to see what you have to say. Good luck in the future.
From your experience, Wayne, it doesn’t look encouraging to start your own blog. For one thing, you don’t spend any time there, preferring to come here and dictate to others without speaking to the posted issues.
Oh, and your blog doesn’t even rate in the top 800,000 I believe. No wonder you’re over here so much trying to dictate to other posters.
July 25th, 2009 at 12:38 pmI refer you to your own post #5
cordial, not even close.
You have now started to dominate the discussion here with your insistance that all here bow to your wishes. How would you define that?
July 25th, 2009 at 12:39 pmhanshiro says:
July 25th, 2009 at 12:26 pm
FYI asswipe, I haven’t voted you down ONCE. Do you have anything on topic, perhaps?
If it makes you happy, just keep pissing and moaning, and keep trying to nail yourself to that cross.
July 25th, 2009 at 12:41 pmNo wonder you’re over here so much trying to dictate to other posters.
Chains rattling…Scrooge! You have been visited…
July 25th, 2009 at 12:42 pm58. Fred says:
I refer you to your own post #5, cordial, not even close.
Fred…that was the point. If cordiality is moot….
Care to take a crack at Obama’s “preventative detention” insanity? Why is it okay? Why do you trust Obama despite his numerous reversals?
July 25th, 2009 at 12:43 pmAhhh, here comes the clique…
59. Zooey says: FYI asswipe, I haven’t voted you down ONCE. Do you have anything on topic, perhaps
Sure zooey…for a liar, I’m sure you believe what you say…
July 25th, 2009 at 12:48 pmI am personally not the least interested in your rantings about why Obama is such a failure. I hear that all the time from the people who actually are failures.
I am more interested in his sucesses which are numerous and he is fighing a strong wind to get the things done that he wants. Bachman is one of those winds.
Destroying Obama will not make things better. If that is your goal there are plenty of places where you will fit in better than here.
July 25th, 2009 at 12:49 pmvery cordial. Zooey predicted that you would continue to nail yourself to the cross. You just aren’t able to learn from your mistakes are you? Who does that sound like?
July 25th, 2009 at 12:51 pmWell, hanshiro, maybe your clear intellectual superiority to me will mean you’ll get more visitors to your blog than I get to mine. Why don’t we find out? Create a blog of your own, write about the things you feel like writing about, and see how many people show up there. I wish you success in your efforts.
And I do not believe I am dictating to others, I thought I was merely offering you suggestions. Nobody takes me seriously here, hanshiro, as well they shouldn’t. I’m not any kind of intellectual giant, driving the discussion of the day. I’m just a silly person who likes to write song parodies.
July 25th, 2009 at 12:52 pmAh, so sorry, Master Hanshiro. We are but crickets cowering in the darkness awaiting the enlightenment of your intellect. Please forgive, we tremble in our imperfection.
July 25th, 2009 at 12:52 pmI see how it is. I make one comment, and I’m controlling the board.
Ohhhhh, the POWER!!!
Please, take no notice that hanshiro has completely hijacked this thread with his self-righteous complaining.
July 25th, 2009 at 12:52 pm63.Fred says:
I am personally not the least interested in your rantings about why Obama is such a failure. I hear that all the time from the people who actually are failures. I am more interested in his sucesses which are numerous and he is fighing a strong wind to get the things done that he wants.
The infuriating thing about this approach is that any republican can trot this out to defend the idiocy of bush. If you wouldn’t put up with it from bush, you shouldn’t from Obama, but again…double standard.
Progressives should be just as pissed off….
July 25th, 2009 at 12:54 pmHanshiro,
I have been posting on this blog for several months, and have been reading it much longer. I have noticed that the “regulars” are critical of President Obama and other Democrats on a fairly regular basis. I have been very critical of Obama on other threads, and have called him on his failures. I also support him when I feel he has done good things for this country.
I was very critical, and still am, of the Bush administration. I feel that they have done more damage to the US than any other modern administration. I also supported them when they did things that I thought were good for the US (how very few that was).
That is the generally the difference between progressives and conservatives. Conservatives will support without question, progressives generally will call their elected officials on their failures.
July 25th, 2009 at 1:00 pmI hope that the rock that really gets dropped is the one that’ll fall on Bachmann’s head. Nah, that just adds to the pile of gravel, doesn’t it?
On the other hand, now that she’s admitted that the public option plan would offer better care, cheaper, that should be quoted all over hell and half of Georgia – not to mention everyplace but her district in MN. Wouldn’t want the voters in her district to get the notion that even Michelle can catch a glimmer of the truth now and then.
July 25th, 2009 at 1:00 pmAnd how will you ever know if we are or not? By attacking us?
Seriously little fella, if you think that the gains we have made are disposable then you just aren’t really smart enough to be in the discussion.
We have plenty of dissapointment but it doesn’t mean we are willing to throw the gains away by trashing the only people who show any signs whatsoever that they understand our concerns.
You on the other hand see things as purely black and white. I really don’t think you are mature enough to have a discussion with most of the posters in this forum and I know you have no right to claim a superior intellect or moral standard.
You are just a childlike mind who wants attention. Grow up.
You have sucessfully derailed the thread. Again, why are you trolling?
July 25th, 2009 at 1:02 pm48 spencers mom
I think you are correct in that area.
But my speculation is that HIC is cherry picking its list of policy holders in anticipation of a health reform of sorts that may hurt its profits.
Let me put it in another way:
You lend short and borrow long.
That is to say, Company A gets to pay for another year if they so choose, at a HORRIBLY INCREASED RATE, 25%. 25 FUGGING % INCREASE. With absolutely NO WARRANTY that HIC will offer a policy renewal next year. (Lend short)
At the same time, there is nothing preventing HIC from denying and negotiating claims from the actual patients and practitioners while HIC keeps collecting premiums. (Borrow long)
Add insult to injury.
Some employees at Company A are regurgitating that the reason why healthcare INSURANCE costs are so high is because:
a) frivolous lawsuits
b) repeated, unnecessary testing
c) sick people are pu$$ies that don’t want to work and want a handout.
In any case, HIC is edging its bets. Hey, they are an insurance company.
- No healthcare reform. They keep the suckers that paid the increased premiums and then look for more suckers, er, customers.
July 25th, 2009 at 1:02 pm- Health care reform. They still keep the sucker’s money and dump them next year into the government’s plan.
67.Zooey says: I see how it is. I make one comment, and I’m controlling the board.Ohhhhh, the POWER!!! Please, take no notice that hanshiro has completely hijacked this thread with his self-righteous complaining.
It began with the pile-on of comment #5 for no reason but to silence dissent.
But you are too modest zooey. You and your buddies are the past masters at thread-jacking. You’ll notice the tell-tale zoo members are all in attendance right where the issues were subverted in favor of zooey’s and the zoo buddies favorite past time; “attack the poster, not the post…”
It also answers the question about why Joe left.
July 25th, 2009 at 1:05 pmhanshiro says:
Um, being critical of ad hominem attacks and following up that criticism with “sure zooey…for a liar” kind of undermines the validity of the criticism.
And Zooey can handle herself quite well, I’m not jumping to her defense, just pointing out the apparent double standard.
PEACE
July 25th, 2009 at 1:07 pmThe short answer is no. They are really not interested in fixing it, it is the way they want it now.
The good news is that the American public is slowly turning it’s back on these people. finally.
July 25th, 2009 at 1:08 pmSad state of affairs when repeated posts acknowledge a poster’s points and point out they are off topic and are blamed for personal attacks.
No one denies the comments are very bright and have intelligent things to say. It is the personal style that is irritating.
July 25th, 2009 at 1:11 pmSilence what dissent? That post wasn’t dissent, it was an attack pure and simple. Posters responded in kind and you were shut down. Surprised? I don’t know why you would be.
I’m not a zoo member. How do you explain that mr conspiricy guy?
Joe left for the same reason that you will. You can’t control this board and it infuriates you. You are so powerless.
July 25th, 2009 at 1:12 pmhanshiro says:
July 25th, 2009 at 1:05 pm
Uh huh. My first off topic comment on that thread was at #116.
Another Joe was another whiner, just like you, but he liked to plagiarize — and you enjoyed defending him about it.
That’s just who you are.
July 25th, 2009 at 1:14 pm66.Hoodathunktick says: Ah, so sorry, Master Hanshiro. We are but crickets cowering in the darkness awaiting the enlightenment of your intellect. Please forgive, we tremble in our imperfection.
Overstatement to absurdity doesn’t strengthen your position.
I pose the question again: How is perpetuating, just as the MSM is with the birther stupidity, republican idiocy, advancing a Progressive agenda?
“Gee, that Bachmann, what an idiot. Still….no change from the last 6 Bachmann threads…yup, still an idiot…”
Expressing bafflement over the dearth of substantive subjects is normal and well within the purview of any longtime poster. I’ve been around too, and the idea is that there’s precious little coverage of progressive issues on a “progressive” blog; in favor of pointlessly deriding idiot conservatives.
Where’s the beef?
July 25th, 2009 at 1:15 pmI’m just going to start flagging the troll hanshiro.
The troll just seems to be clueless.
July 25th, 2009 at 1:17 pmIf someone wishes to discuss substantiative issues, it’s probably not great strategy to begin with: “This blog is stupid, the posts are stupid and you should be talking about this instead.” I dunno, but it does seem more designed to turn people off than to engage them.
Now I’m going to follow my dog around and pick up poop.
July 25th, 2009 at 1:17 pm78. Zooey says:Uh huh. My first off topic comment on that thread was at #116. Another Joe was another whiner, just like you, but he liked to plagiarize — and you enjoyed defending him about it.
So decrees the queen, despite the fact that she’s a bald-faced liar.
Does your scepter get in the way when you type, Marie Antoinette?
July 25th, 2009 at 1:18 pmhanshiro, I haven’t voted you down on anything until now. I stopped at this thread because it interested me. I’m sick to death of some lame ass high jacking this thread for his own personal BS. If you don’t like the topic, move on, otherwise everything you post from now on gets my down vote.
July 25th, 2009 at 1:19 pmWell, that was intelligent. Anyone impressed?
flagged for off topic and personal attacks.
July 25th, 2009 at 1:20 pmSince I’m no fan of flamewars, and less a fan of the zoo-annex that TP has become, I’ll return you now to, “Conservatives Say The Darndest Things,” or “ThinkProgress” for short…
July 25th, 2009 at 1:21 pmhanshiro,
Prove that I’m a liar.
I’ll be gone for a few hours, but I’ll check back on your progress.
Kthnxbai.
July 25th, 2009 at 1:21 pmHanshiro, you have a few choices.
Start your own blog and write whatever you please.
Participate at TP according to their rules since it is their blog. If you have a beef with how they run it, talk to them.
Continue to complain about it on specific threads and have people get tired of listening to you whine about how you aren’t happy.
It isn’t a conspiracy. If you want to keep playing Canasta while everyone else is trying to play Bridge, fine. You just won’t be listened to.
July 25th, 2009 at 1:22 pmZooey is not a liar. Anyone who thinks differently doesn’t know what he’s talking about.
Yes, hanshiro, that means you. There, I said it and I’m glad.
July 25th, 2009 at 1:23 pmhanshiro, don’t let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.
July 25th, 2009 at 1:24 pmIt’s hard to believe Obama talked seriously about reaching across the aisle to these people.
July 25th, 2009 at 1:26 pmDon’t forget to drag that tall pony you were riding on, the one you were riding “to discuss substantive issues instead of irrelevant name calling”
Put some plaster casts on it, then carry the pony back here.
July 25th, 2009 at 1:28 pmThe troll loves flamewars and incites them and then lies about it. Flagged for being a bold faced liar.
July 25th, 2009 at 1:28 pmYou know, that photo makes her eyes look like she’s some sort of demon. Quite an apt observation, really…
God forbid we have a healthcare system that will take care of people. God forbid that we have a system where scared pregnant 14 year old girls can have access to abortion because they were raped by their father or brother. God forbid we have a system that actually ISN’T based on profit.
I am so sick of this woman and the rest of the conservative herd. How is it that these lunatics get elected? Moreover, how is it that they keep referring to Obama as some sort of communist? He’s a centrist democrat at best. Most of the people who voted for him are probably more (if not much more) liberal than he is, yet we have these crazies like Bachmann whining about how he’s TOO liberal. Wake up, lady… Most of America is more conservative than this man. Your speeches are falling on either deaf ears or the ears of the select few who still cling to your old, outdated, fear-mongering tactics.
July 25th, 2009 at 1:28 pmExcuse me, I meant to say, most of America is more LIBERAL than this man. My bad. My rantings and quick typing result in misplaced words now and again.
July 25th, 2009 at 1:30 pmOne of the problems we have up here in Minnesota is, the local press doesn’t cover the bat shit crazy stuff she says. If you don’t visit sites like this one, you won’t here half of the crazy stuff she spouts.
July 25th, 2009 at 1:32 pmPretty good rant Mr Burns but that one word did change the meaning a lot didn’t it. I followed your point though.
You’re not the only one sick of them. All of America seems to be seeing the light. I say let them continue to dig their own hole and then we can just push them into it and cover it up.
July 25th, 2009 at 1:35 pmangels81 says:
One of the problems we have up here in Minnesota is, the local press doesn’t cover the bat shit crazy stuff she says. If you don’t visit sites like this one, you won’t here half of the crazy stuff she spouts.
I really hope that whoever runs against her in 2010 will use some of these quotes against her. From what I remember, she didn’t win her seat back by very many votes, so if her opponent could use her words against her, MN might get free of her.
July 25th, 2009 at 1:36 pmThat’s the point that a lot of people here don’t get(hans). When confronted with people who have been listening to bachman we are armed with the truth about her.
July 25th, 2009 at 1:37 pmjohnny dol1ar says:
A bit off topic.
#43 Company A just received notice from its employee health insurance carrier HIC notifying it that starting Sept 1st, the premium is going up 25%. Just like that. Out of the blue, no explanations. Take it or leave it.
Now, I have some speculation of my own. But instead I would like to hear if anyone else has had a similar experience or your speculation if the current debate may have anything to do with HIC actions.
My opinion is the corporate powers that be own US and they are going to do anything they damn well please. Until we can pass a campaign finance reform it will only get worse as congress will vote in their best interest rather than ours.
The corporate powers that be own the media which helps sway the public in order to profit on their other investments such as defense, insurance, Big Pharma.
To view corporate contributions go to: opensecrets.org
theyrule.net shows how connected the corporate powers that be are inter connected.
July 25th, 2009 at 1:37 pmMichele “dumbhead” Bachmann does it every time. There’s nothing new that she has done or will ever do. I pity the people who put this nuthead in the congress expecting to work for their good. When a person fails to understand or reason cause and rather just shoot her mouth off in opposition then Bachmann is what we get. Never has she or the GOP ever laid out a single idea let alone a plan as to how to address any issue. Constructive opposition is one thing but all she has ever done is follow a policy of divisiveness. Is health care an major issue? Are people with or without insurance facing problems? ….. Instead of sanely trying to answer these questions and find solutions to the real problems all Bachmann ever does is ratchet up rhetoric based on ideology. It quirks me to know that there are people who pay to listen to her insanity.
July 25th, 2009 at 1:44 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Well, Slappy, since the President is trying to get health care for those who don’t have it or are unhappy with what they have, why are you asking the silly question?
And btw, he is also trying to make sure that the coverage you do have works, that your rates won’t keep going up every year and they won’t be able to cancel you if you develop something disgusting and expensive.
Ok, pumpkin?
July 25th, 2009 at 1:52 pm87. Hoodathunktick says: It isn’t a conspiracy. If you want to keep playing Canasta while everyone else is trying to play Bridge, fine.
One last.
Your analogy is not correct, H.
The problem is, the rules have changed with the dealer, despite the fact that it’s still supposed to be Bridge. (Bridge =Constitution in my analogy…)
In other words, the outrage that TP was ginning up over the blatant violations of the bush administration has evaporated, even when Obama commits the exact same transgressions.
My problem is not one of content, but consistency. TP no longer posts about governmental abuse on anything approaching a regular basis, rather they post and tar conservatives almost exclusively and rarely hammer Obama on his perpetuation of bush policy and the dems on their spineless cooperation. It doesn’t count to just have a thread here or there. I haven’t changed, TP has.
Of course, it’s much easier to attack dissent than confront any echoes of bush by the dems. Dissent can be silenced and derided; downrated.
To paraphrase: ‘It’s the consistency, stupid!’
July 25th, 2009 at 1:55 pmBachmann has demonstrated repeatedly that she is more concerned with furthering her own political agenda than she is with improving the welfare of the American populace. Once again, the politicians and pundits of the right wing are doing everything in their power to make their “Obama and his policies will fail” mantra become a self-fulfilling prophesy, even at the detriment of the country’s future.
However, the American public recognizes that Obama is working hard to improve the nation, whereas the conservative movement has resigned itself to serve as a speed-bump on the road to progress.
Well, at least the GOP has their new 2010 campaign slogan: “The Republican Party — status quo you can believe in“.
July 25th, 2009 at 1:59 pm#5. Hanshiro sez…
We all deserve answers, Hanshiro, but I think the main point of those who voted ‘no’ on 5 is well taken. The blog post heading this thread is about some commentary from Rep. Bachmann. Of course it’s a lot of snark; Bachman very rarely fails to say something stupid or contradictory or both; she certainly managed to do both at that meeting.
As it happens, I didn’t even look at the other comments before I posted a remark this morning, so the blog post got snark from me, too. Then when I did look at the thread, I found my snark smack in the middle of all the OT commentary between you and various others. What’s more, your post at #5 had already been voted below the ‘click to read’ threshold.
Be that as it may, I opened it, read it, and didn’t vote one way or the other. Aside from noting that some of what you said is rhetorical, since we all know the answer to what I assume were questions, and some was off topic, I don’t have much of an opinion on #5. It just kind of gets a “meh” from me, although the self-destruction of the rePublicrites is always worthy of many snarks. I would be happy to see longer and more closely reasoned comments on any thread, anywhere (not simply on TP), but I’m also in favor of whatever comedy comes around – so if that be snark and sarcasm, so be it.
On the other hand, I think Wayne’s comments on a Saturday & Sunday Open Thread are meritorious, although it would be difficult to shut down a free-for-all, especially if it was producing something interesting.
July 25th, 2009 at 2:02 pmHanshiro,
In the past, you have usually been an excellent poster. Recently, however, you have turned into a troll.
I am not a member of this alleged “zoo clique” that you clam exists, without presenting any evidence that it does indeed exist, yet I voted down every one of your posts for being off topic trolling. I also wonder when TP provided you the information of who exactly is voting down your posts? Please provide us a link or an email or some evidence that shows how you know who is voting you down.
I think most TP posters know the Bachmann is a wingnut moron, but TP is documenting it, over and over, so that information does not get ignored by the MSM. Imagine when it comes time for someone to run against Bachmann, that person will have tremendous resources provided by TP to draw on to defeat yet another fascist theocrat wingnut Republican.
Since this post is just as off topic as all of Hanshiro’s rant posts, I wish there were some TP posts discussing Obama’s current position on Torture, and some durn critical ones at that, but I am just a guest, allowed to make comments, it’s not my blog.
July 25th, 2009 at 2:09 pmangels81 says:
One of the problems we have up here in Minnesota is, the local press doesn’t cover the bat shit crazy stuff she says. If you don’t visit sites like this one, you won’t here half of the crazy stuff she spouts.
July 25th, 2009 at 1:32 pm
proves my point in post #99.
I canceled my cable TV as I refuse to be hypnotized for any length of time by the corporate media pushing their political bias, war and drugs.
It was the media that helped instigate the hype for the illegal invasion and massacre on Iraq.
Through the media, Big Pharma, another connected corporate giant, advertises their money making drugs for erectile dysfunction…. never mind the more important diseases such as AIDS or the growing number of infectious skin disease I hear can kill.
July 25th, 2009 at 2:12 pmHanshiro, your beef is with TP management. Take it up with them. No one here has any control over what is posted and raising cain with the posters has absolutely no effect on what is posted. Politely requesting support for a different content might bring support but paranoia and personal attacks won’t work.
July 25th, 2009 at 2:13 pmhanshiro says:
Since I’m no fan of flamewars, and less a fan of the zoo-annex that TP has become,
I think you’ve got this backwards. TheZoo was started as a way for TP regulars to get away from the trolls who were ruining life at TP. TP was not started as a way for trolls to post comments they couldn’t get away with at TheZoo.
July 25th, 2009 at 2:16 pmspencers mom says:
johnny dol1ar, the private carriers are raising premiums like crazy so they can show, down the road, just how much they’ve cut premiums. They’ve actually been doing it for the past few years.
Providers do the same thing – they sign a contract for a specific payment rate schedule, not a percent of billed charges, then slowly escalate their billed charges so, when it comes time to renegotiate, they can point to the huge discounts they’re already giving the payer.
The fact that insurance companies are raising premiums is only part of the problem. When claims are received by insurance companies, they have “utilization review” which in essence is a nurse or medical professional who reviews medical records and may downgrade the procedure codes that pay less or disallow the charge. This is done to the providers to squeeze dollars out of the large claims. Insurance companies find it very profitable to use these reviews to save millions if not a billion in charges. The nurse or other medical professional are in essence second guessing doctors diagnosis and treatment.
Another way insurance companies make money with their provider contracts are discounts. When certain medical procedures are performed, the insurance company contract provides a discount which is dependent on how fast the claim is paid. Medical providers allow this because it helps cash flow and less billing issues.
July 25th, 2009 at 2:27 pmpags2,
Another reason our system needs reform are the consultants who make money advising doctors how they can get more out of the insurance companies by breaking up a procedure into component actions and billing for each action. For example, instead of one charge for an appendectomy, they’ll suggest charging a fee for the initial laceration to get into the body (laperectomy, or something like that), then a separate charge for step after that.
Then those same consultants take money from the insurance companies by teaching them how to spot doctors who are trying to break down a single procedure into multiple charges (or, in other words, how to spot their other clients in action.)
The Republicans argument that “you don’t want some bureaucrat in Washington making decisions about your health care” is quite stupid when you realize that it’s actually some bureaucrat at the insurance company who is making those very same decisions. The difference is that the bureaucrat in the insurance company is only interested in making a profit, not in making sure you get the care you need to live. It’s the Republican Party who thinks the current system is better.
July 25th, 2009 at 2:38 pmI read somewhere recently that the RNC sees Bachmann’s seat as being vulnerable in the next congressional election cycle, and they’re talking to members of the GOP in her district seeking other candidates.
Now why would that be?
(I read so much about the congresscritters that I can’t remember the exact web site, but it was earlier this week.)
July 25th, 2009 at 2:41 pmWayne, it’s the bundling/unbundling story. The first to figure out the loophole were the labs, billing lab panels as individual procedures.
There is a whole cottage industry developing software to spot unbundling, duplicates, billing for follow-up care that is included as part of the surgical fee, etc.
But you’re right, the same consultants flip flop between provider and insurance company, selling the same services from the opposite perspective.
Oh, what will those poor consultants do if we have a successful public plan that leaves them out in the cold? Hire lobbyists, I guess.
PEACE
July 25th, 2009 at 2:45 pmHey, back topic!
July 25th, 2009 at 2:58 pmWhoops, “back on topic.”
I guess I got a little exicted there. Nice to be back on topic though.
July 25th, 2009 at 2:59 pmWayne A. Schneider says:
pags2,
Another reason our system needs reform are the consultants who make money advising doctors how they can get more out of the insurance companies by breaking up a procedure into component actions and billing for each action. For example, instead of one charge for an appendectomy, they’ll suggest charging a fee for the initial laceration to get into the body (laperectomy, or something like that), then a separate charge for step after that.
The doctors are not the problem because they are reliant on cash flow. They do not have consultants to break down medical procedures. The procedure codes which were developed by insurance companies determine what the insurance company will pay. Doctors upgrade their diagnostic codes because they know the insurance company will downgrade it. The doctors are forced to treat illnesses in a specific manner to get the insurance company to pay. The insurance companies dictate hospital stays as well as which diagnostic tests are done. Doctors hands are tied because they cannot afford to take on the insurance company unless it is a medical emergency.
July 25th, 2009 at 3:09 pmBachman says “President Obama is a mere mortal” At least he’s not a pathetic lying lowlife slug like MS bachman.
July 25th, 2009 at 3:35 pmpags2,
Perhaps I mis-remembered something I read a long time ago.
July 25th, 2009 at 3:37 pm108.Hoodathunktick says: Hanshiro, your beef is with TP management. Take it up with them. No one here has any control over what is posted and raising cain with the posters has absolutely no effect on what is posted. Politely requesting support for a different content might bring support but paranoia and personal attacks won’t work.
I agree it is partially with TP management.
However.
There are many threads upon which the zoo clique has visited attacks on the poster rather than the post. Criticism of Obama, however relevant to the post will many times elicit attacks of the poster from the zoo buddies.
I’ve watched constructive, civil threads be undone by their ad hom attacks as Ralph, zooey et.al. start in with attacking posters, their posting style, etc. right in the midst of substantive threads.
One poster attacked joe for being too frequent on one thread. Substantive, but ‘too frequent.’
The gist being that even when threads naturally evolve and explore tangents, the little zoo buddies attempt to silence dissent by those they don’t like, while others who blatantly disrupt the thread, stalk and insult, get defended. Such as by little zoo buddy Ralph.
If it’s bush, it’s fine, if it’s Obama, it’s ‘whining.’
Double standard. One that they shout down with regularity; now they have the mechanical means to silence justified critics.
There’s more to this, H, and you’ve seen it; zooey’s protests notwithstanding for a second. TP doesn’t need self-appointed blog sheriffs who attack posters because they disagree with the content of their posts.
July 25th, 2009 at 3:47 pmHanshiro, you might want to look behind you. Your paranoia is showing. The vast majority of folks here who have asked you to stay on topic are not Zoophilists. And I stress, they asked.
July 25th, 2009 at 4:00 pmhanshiro,
I disagree with the content of your post at 3:47 pm. But I will not vote it down, so if it gets any down votes, they didn’t come from me. I’ve made my point to you and you’re still trying to make yours. Good luck with that.
And, please, in all seriousness, let us know when you have your blog up and running so we may discuss the things you would like to discuss.
July 25th, 2009 at 4:00 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Now that everyone is fighing I have a simple question. Why is the site mentioned above called TPZoo?
Does TP endorse the content?
I’m stupid and easily confused so please forgive my idiotic curiosity…
July 25th, 2009 at 4:15 pmWayne A. Schneider says:
pags2,
Perhaps I mis-remembered something I read a long time ago.
NP. The reason why I know this stuff is because I used to work for an insurance company doing workers compensation claims. I don’t know who voted you down but I voted you up to make it even.
July 25th, 2009 at 4:15 pmhanshiro says:
Criticism of Obama, however relevant to the post will many times elicit attacks of the poster from the zoo buddies.
I’ve noticed this too; I’ve found this “clique” (as you would call it) a most pernicious and sickening aspect of TP..
July 25th, 2009 at 4:17 pmI guess some people just can’t function outside of the group(think).
120. Hoodathunktick says: Hanshiro, you might want to look behind you. Your paranoia is showing. The vast majority of folks here who have asked you to stay on topic are not Zoophilists. And I stress, they asked.
It’s not paranoia and no, they didn’t “ask.”
I got “the treatment” on topical threads. When I’ve posted Greenwald, ACLU and similar sources, Ralph and the little zoo buddies attacked the poster, not the post, That is a fact, H. Rebuttals are not as popular as “look, more whining,” which is a standard response to strong, sourced positions lately.
I take issue with it and notice other posters who show dissent also get attacked for excuses that don’t seem to apply when exhibited by their little buddies.
Obama has lied on numerous occasions, proven himself untrustworthy completely and he’s getting ready to throw single-payer under the bus for good, but where’s the outrage?!?
If bush and the republicans were doing this, the little zoo buddies would be falling all over themselves to post the harshest condemnation.
Obama does the same thing and gets….”Leave Obama Aloooooone.”
It ain’t paranoia if it’s true, H.
July 25th, 2009 at 4:18 pm121.Wayne A. Schneider says: I disagree with the content of your post at 3:47 pm. But I will not vote it down, so if it gets any down votes, they didn’t come from me. I’ve made my point to you and you’re still trying to make yours. Good luck with that. And, please, in all seriousness, let us know when you have your blog up and running so we may discuss the things you would like to discuss.
I won’t be starting a blog, Wayne. It seems to attract the wrong sorts…
;-)
July 25th, 2009 at 4:21 pmHanshiro, you have a very selective memory. I have backed you on many threads. I have called for listening to you because you have said many things that need to be said. I have taken heat, yes even from the dreaded Zoo clique, because you have, in the past, spoken with clarity and passion on things that needed to be said.
I am sorry to see you sink to the levels you have. I am sorry you feel as you do. The Zoo is not your enemy, you are. You have gone from cogent, concise posting, albeit off topic from time to time, to jealous vitriol of people who are not your enemy.
If you lack the knowledge to start your own blog, understandable. I doubt that is true. A pity because you have much good to say.
July 25th, 2009 at 4:29 pmHanshiro,
You really need to let it go.
July 25th, 2009 at 4:32 pmLook at this shat.
Blue Cross is using job elevautions to drop insurers.
July 25th, 2009 at 4:36 pmThis is just more greed for the repugs and the insurance companies.
TEN! TEN VOTE DOWNS!!!! BWA HA HA HA HA.
July 25th, 2009 at 4:36 pmI, for one, welcome every story about Crazy Shelly. The local media refuses to even report on her extremism and, if there’s any chance of taking the 6th District away from a dangerous lunatic it will take a lot of help from the blogosphere and politically active people from the nation at large.
And, besides my personal stake as a Minnesotan, I think that it’s alarming that we have so many insane people in Congress. I’m thankful for every Bachmann post on every blog because the more people become convinced that this woman is unqualified for her seat the better chance we have of ending an international embarrassment.
July 25th, 2009 at 4:44 pm128. Hoodathunktick says: Hanshiro, you have a very selective memory. I have backed you on many threads. I have called for listening to you because you have said many things that need to be said. I have taken heat, yes even from the dreaded Zoo clique, because you have, in the past, spoken with clarity and passion on things that needed to be said.
What a minute…I haven’t said I wasn’t supported. Nowhere have I posted “selective memory” recall at all. I have been attacked. Whatever happened between you and zooey is your business, but the fact that you’re attacked by the same people for ‘backing’ me only proves my point all the more.
I am sorry to see you sink to the levels you have. I am sorry you feel as you do. The Zoo is not your enemy, you are. You have gone from cogent, concise posting, albeit off topic from time to time, to jealous vitriol of people who are not your enemy.
The little zoo buddies do attack in a group and I’ve watched them go after both me and Joe among others even with the most cogent points. As I said, sourced and expert posts are met with, “stop whining about Obama. Inequity and the disingenuousness wears.
If you lack the knowledge to start your own blog, understandable. I doubt that is true. A pity because you have much good to say.
Again, I don’t know what or whom you’re reading, but I never said I lack the knowledge to start a blog. (Are you sure it wasn’t part of some snark?)
It’s telling that I’m viewed as cogent and intelligent, until I point up the obvious behaviors of the little zoo buddies; then I’m suddenly paranoid and sinking to ‘levels.’
I’m not imagining the zoo members discussing and deciding whom they will ignore, goad and generally determining by arbitrary fiat who is a multiple-profile troll. I’m not imagining them coming onto a thread and within 15 minutes starting a flamewar.
Passions run high on issues, but that doesn’t justify them consistently attacking the poster at the expense of a post they object to. And they do it all the time.
July 25th, 2009 at 4:48 pmThe good news is;
It’s a lose-lose situation for the republicans. If Obama’s healthcare plan passes, they will of course be hating it as a democratic victory and will also look bad in the first place for fighting it, and in the second place for losing it. Besides, the tide of public opinion is eroding away the republican base, and in time there WILL be some form of public healthcare, so if republicans were wise(snicker)they would get on board and build their credibility. Instead of just slamming Obama’s plan, they should be CONSTRUCTIVELY criticizing it and offering improvements. (But SHHHH! let’s not tell them!)
The bad news is;
July 25th, 2009 at 4:56 pmThat millions, yes MILLIONS(!) of Americans will be suffering while republicans play out their sick game. The republicans remind me of little kids who don’t want to listen to reason with their fingers in their ears yelling, BLAH BLAH BLAH!!! The problem is, this is all they have and they are surely doomed, but again, like little kids they will spitefully try and take as many people down with them as possible.
President Obama isn’t the revolutionary that Castro and Che were, but that’s not what we need right now. After four or eight years of McCain we would have needed a popular revolution to get out from under the wheel of plutocracy.
Obama is a moderate pragmatist. That that appears to be extreme to the Pugs is just more evidence of how ignorant they are. Our health care system is barbaric. To carry on as if it were radical to have a substantial public health care program is backward.
July 25th, 2009 at 4:58 pmHan, taking heat is not being attacked. And you know it. For your edification, many members of this Zoo clique you refer to have refrained from posting here because they have no desire to get into flaming or attacking. You are fighting a ghost.
If you feel persecuted, it ain’t from any group. You may be bright but you aren’t a world threat.
July 25th, 2009 at 4:59 pmNicely said, wiley.
July 25th, 2009 at 5:01 pm136.Hoodathunktick says: Han, taking heat is not being attacked. And you know it.
“Taking heat” implies engendering a negative reaction for agreeing with me. Call it what you will, it sounds a great deal like garnering unfavorability for your choice of poster support. Perhaps you wish to rephrase?
For your edification, many members of this Zoo clique you refer to have refrained from posting here because they have no desire to get into flaming or attacking. You are fighting a ghost.
No, I’m not. I have read huddles on the zoo site, medjhiesco. I’ve also noticed inconsistent application of criticism for the same and mostly worse behavior on the part of little zoo buddies. Your ‘ghost’ claim is crap.
If you feel persecuted, it ain’t from any group. You may be bright but you aren’t a world threat.
The blog would benefit greatly from banning the little zoo buddies. You don’t have to be a “world threat” to threaten someone’s cloistered world view. Just post the truth or substantively disagree; see how fast you get stifled….
Attack the poster, not the post.
July 25th, 2009 at 5:16 pmThen have fun, Hanshiro. If your lurking at the Zoo has taught you nothing, then you can say you came away with nothing. And your off topic posts will tend to follow the same…nothing.
If you alienate folks with your style, your words will not be heard.
But have fun.
July 25th, 2009 at 5:21 pmOnce again, we cordially invite those who do not like what TP is posting about to go start their own blog and write about the things that concern them. Thank you, and have a nice life.
As I recall, a few did. I think it helped motivate TP to take the steps it has taken to reduce troll droppings on their threads.
July 25th, 2009 at 5:22 pmHanshiro,
Shelly Bachmann (InsaneR-Mn) is dangerous. She’s a rock star among the most dangerous radicals of the Reichwing. She has received millions of dollars from evangelicals across the country and the good people of her district are not terribly sophisticated. When these people are told that Shelly is a “good Christian lady” they don’t look any deeper unless she gets exposed on the local news. We need cable and the blogosphere to apply pressure on the local outfits.
But? It’s not just the 6th District that is imperiled. If this woman hears a voice in her head that says run for higher office she’ll do it. And with the power of the evangelical lobby she remains a threat in any election. I don’t think that stories about this woman are frivolous at all. Her’s is a political career that can’t end soon enough. Stories about her are a public service.
July 25th, 2009 at 5:24 pmI’m curious…just how do you know this?
Then the “Zoo clique” must exists if you can find “many members of this Zoo clique”…. right?
Where’s the phucking logic in your defense of the “Zoo clique?”
You admit it exist in so many words.
July 25th, 2009 at 5:28 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
139. Hoodathunktick says: Then have fun, Hanshiro. If your lurking at the Zoo has taught you nothing, then you can say you came away with nothing. And your off topic posts will tend to follow the same…nothing.
Lurking was not necessary. A cursory search was all that was necessary to discredit your assertion.
If you alienate folks with your style, your words will not be heard.
I alienate when I’m attacked. The little zoo buddies attack posters they disagree with, downrate them regardless of the substance of their posts and instigate flamewars. If they (you) are so hip and knowledgeable, why doesn’t their little zoo blog rate below the first 800,000 sites out there?
No wonder they frustratedly come to TP and attack dissent and posters who challenge their worldview, however sourced and substantive.
They can’t attract an audience by themselves and many threads go un-commented on…yet these same clique members can erect a “we hate so-and-so” juvenile list against another poster. How progrif.
I guess a ghost did that too, huh, like in Family Circus?
July 25th, 2009 at 5:38 pmdixie blood,
hanshiro is referring to TheZoo, a blog started by a couple of dozen of us who got fed up with TP’s lack of moderation and troll control. After we left and started the blog (and invited other TP visitors to come visit us), TP made significant changes to their site which made many of us want to come back. I know they didn’t do it just to please us, but I do think they did it because they recognized the benefits of our suggestions.
July 25th, 2009 at 5:45 pmhanshiro; just to let you know, when I see one of your posts (or a post to you) I scroll right on by; please adapt to the topic or leave; your posts are but filler.
Now, back on topic; Another thing insurance companies do is stall stall, STALL. Think of it, nationally pushing back a million claims; the interest alone in payments owed being kept in the bank another day or three is probably in the millons annually, and if the patient dies, all the better! I had to get my manager on the phone once to get Bl*e C*oss to pay my claims for my infant son’s office visits. Bl*e C*oss used every trick in the book to not pay, even though the claims were completely valid. When I got our Bl*e C*oss rep on a conference call with my manager and demanded she pay several 45-60 day old claims, she STILL argued with me until I crammed it back down her throat, practically screaming at her. That’s another thing; when you are working, how can you sit on the phone on hold for 30 minutes at a time during business hours trying to settle insurance claims?!
July 25th, 2009 at 5:49 pm146.Jack Mehoff says: hanshiro; just to let you know, when I see one of your posts (or a post to you) I scroll right on by; please adapt to the topic or leave; your posts are but filler.
What a coincidence, just to let you know, I do the same for yours. Your name implies you’re what…12?
July 25th, 2009 at 5:52 pmThe other site is TheZoo not TPZoo. And to the best of my knowledge Ralph has never written a comment there. The fact is hanshiro thinks anybody who disagrees with him is the member of some imaginary clique. The other site was formed when trolls acting much like hanshiro focused on personal attacks and spamming threads before registration and some of us were looking for some place else to discuss pertinent topics.
July 25th, 2009 at 5:53 pmFrankly I don’t understand why somebody unhappy with the content of a site doesn’t find a site that discusses topics they’re more interested in. When somebody continually comes here and denigrates this site and slams those of us who are more moderate and don’t have an issue with many of President Obama’s policies it makes me think they are just another Republican troll trying to sow dissent among those who voted for Democrats.
July 25th, 2009 at 5:57 pm149.Shayne says: The other site is TheZoo not TPZoo. And to the best of my knowledge Ralph has never written a comment there. The fact is hanshiro thinks anybody who disagrees with him is the member of some imaginary clique.
So proclaims Shayne…zoo member…
What happened to “full disclosure?” Kinda like plagiarism, no? Certainly dishonest…
July 25th, 2009 at 6:01 pmShayne says:
The other site is TheZoo not TPZoo.
I should clarify that the WordPress URL includes TPZoo because that’s how the individual who did the initial setup chose to identify the blog–during our very first days. It was very much a product of the frustration we felt at the time with TP, and all of us were regular contributors to the comments.
It is true that the blog is a casual affair and has never gotten the stats that TP or other blogs have gotten, much like Rachel Maddow hasn’t gotten Limbaugh’s stats. It’s an odd attack, I must say. However, total views to date: 1,187,523.
On our best day, in May 2008: 27,122 views. Neither of those numbers include visits by members of the blog, incidentally.
If we tend to agree with one another, it’s because, well, because we tend to agree with one another. That’s why most of us are still participating on some level at The Zoo after nearly two years. We’re not a cabal and not a coven. We do not organize attacks on anyone. We have discussed the behavior of other people, either on blogs or elsewhere, and the open nature of The Zoo has meant that those people are free to respond.
July 25th, 2009 at 6:04 pmMichelle is actually a spiritual fitness barometer for me. When I can just roll my eyes and smile I know I’m having a wonderful and spiritual day. When I fell like lighting her up with a flame thrower and putting her out with an axe handle; you get the picture.
July 25th, 2009 at 6:05 pm145.Wayne A. Schneider says: hanshiro is referring to TheZoo, a blog started by a couple of dozen of us who got fed up with TP’s lack of moderation and troll control. After we left and started the blog (and invited other TP visitors to come visit us), TP made significant changes to their site which made many of us want to come back. I know they didn’t do it just to please us, but I do think they did it because they recognized the benefits of our suggestions.
ThinkProgress with a traffic rank of 13,513 was sweating the “tpzoo” at 835,017 traffic rank.
A veritable force of progressive nature, that zoo…
July 25th, 2009 at 6:05 pmThanks for your post Wayne…
How do you square Hoodathunktick’s comments above?
He seems to admit (not claim) that there is actually a “Zoo” clique here?
July 25th, 2009 at 6:06 pmhanshiro says:
So proclaims Shayne…zoo member…
What happened to “full disclosure?” Kinda like plagiarism, no? Certainly dishonest…
Maybe someone needs to explain about hypertext links. Like the one attached to Shayne’s or my login. And Wayne’s. And Zooey’s. No one is sneaking around, hanshiro.
July 25th, 2009 at 6:06 pmTOPIC hanshiro, TOPIC
republicans hate facts says; RHFS, I believe it’s their hatred of things they don’t understand, prejudice, spitefulness and pettiness/unwillingness to abmit they may be wrong, so they unite in a lynch-mob that make them right, or so they think; they really don’t care as long as they have their fellow lynchmen alongside. I’ve come to believe it’s not their religion or ideology; those are mere smokescreens for their ignorance, prejudice and hatred.
July 25th, 2009 at 6:07 pmHanshiro,
You are acting like a teenager who got dissed and now attacks all the people that used to be his friends.
Grow up
July 25th, 2009 at 6:08 pmGeez, how’d I get voted down for saying it’s great to be back on topic? Must be the zoo crew.
Just kidding.
July 25th, 2009 at 6:09 pm156.gummble-bee-itch says: Maybe someone needs to explain about hypertext links. Like the one attached to Shayne’s or my login. And Wayne’s. And Zooey’s. No one is sneaking around, hanshiro.
No one is exactly volunteering that info either, plus, there sure are a bunch of you hanging around, huh? Kinda like a cli….
July 25th, 2009 at 6:09 pmhanshiro says:
156.gummble-bee-itch says: Maybe someone needs to explain about hypertext links. Like the one attached to Shayne’s or my login. And Wayne’s. And Zooey’s. No one is sneaking around, hanshiro.
No one is exactly volunteering that info either, plus, there sure are a bunch of you hanging around, huh? Kinda like a cli….
Or, kind of like we’ve been participating in TP’s discussions for several years. None of us has ever made any secret of our participation at The Zoo, either.
July 25th, 2009 at 6:13 pm152.gummble-bee-itch says: I should clarify that the WordPress URL includes TPZoo because that’s how the individual who did the initial setup chose to identify the blog–
What’s the “TP” stand for, then? Seems you skipped that part.
If we tend to agree with one another, it’s because, well, because we tend to agree with one another. That’s why most of us are still participating on some level at The Zoo after nearly two years.
..and defend behavior by members that you criticize in non-members with whom you disagree.
July 25th, 2009 at 6:14 pmI’m sure you noticed rich that many regulars HERE AT TP are getting voted down today. Seems like an organized attack by the trolls. I guess you can consider yourself part of the clique as of now.
July 25th, 2009 at 6:17 pmNot a “cli…” hanshiro, but a group of like-minded people who met here and started a blog elsewhere. The majority of us link our names to TheZoo even though we may have our own personal blogs. (And I can promise you that my personal blog isn’t even close to 850,000th in rankings and never will be, despite being the best source of political song parodies you’ll ever find.) Of course we think alike – we’re all liberals and/or progressives. We have common interests and concerns. I’m having a hard time trying to understand what your point is.
BTW, I freely invite you to e-mail TP and ask them to ban all of us from TheZoo. I’m willing to abide by whatever they say. If they want us all to leave and never come back, then I shall leave and never come back. But I hope you’ll understand that the decision is theirs, not yours.
July 25th, 2009 at 6:20 pmThe person who originally set up the site doesn’t post here or at TheZoo any more. When it was set up we were looking for someplace to reconnect to the people we had bonded with here until this place got fixed. When this place was fixed we all headed back here immediately because we love TP and always have. When we don’t we leave we don’t sit here and complain. Our problem is with the trolls not TP and TP works to keep them under control without banning dissenting viewpoints.
July 25th, 2009 at 6:21 pmdixie blood says:How do you square Hoodathunktick’s comments above?
He seems to admit (not claim) that there is actually a “Zoo” clique here?
Dixie blood, I was responding to hanshiro’s claim and used his terms. I am not an official member of the site. I do visit the site, post with the members and am proud and happy to say I have been welcomed there. I may have spoken out of turn, I can’t speak for the members of the Zoo.
July 25th, 2009 at 6:21 pmAnd hanshiro, we don’t need your approval. We’re not here for you. All you want to do is spam and disrupt threads like any other right wing troll. When somebody does that is makes us protective of TP and we fight back. When a topic isn’t discussed here we discuss it there. You are so easily confused you must be a Republican.
July 25th, 2009 at 6:22 pm164. Wayne A. Schneider says: Of course we think alike – we’re all liberals and/or progressives.
We disagree on what constitutes a progressive.
We have common interests and concerns. I’m having a hard time trying to understand what your point is.
..and defend behavior by members that you criticize in non-members with whom you disagree.
Read upthread Wayne. You’ll get the gist. If you’re “having a hard time trying to understand what your point is,” you ain’t trying.
July 25th, 2009 at 6:24 pmhanshiro says:
152.gummble-bee-itch says: I should clarify that the WordPress URL includes TPZoo because that’s how the individual who did the initial setup chose to identify the blog–
What’s the “TP” stand for, then? Seems you skipped that part.
Yes, that’s very sinister. Perhaps I figured it was obvious, given that it had already been plainly stated that the blog was formed in response to frustration with TP.
..and defend behavior by members that you criticize in non-members with whom you disagree.
I admit that I speak up when someone (you, in this case) starts slandering my friends. If you’d like to provide some evidence for that claim of yours, though, I’d be happy to look at it. Be specific, however.
July 25th, 2009 at 6:25 pmNobody can speak for “us”. We are all individuals who have volunteered their time. Some our members have donated large amounts of time to progressive causes. But Hooda you are always welcome to explain what we are although it seems some refuse to understand.
July 25th, 2009 at 6:25 pm165.Shayne says:
Again, What’s the “TP” stand for, then? Seems you skipped that part.
Again.
July 25th, 2009 at 6:25 pmBlind loyalty is a beatch….
July 25th, 2009 at 6:28 pmFor the purpose of full disclosure I must begin this post by saying I loathed my late stepmother. It was mutual and not all her fault and she was lucid till the end.
Anyway, she was a self-proclaimed feminist, pacifist, and politically active “Humphrey liberal”. She also claimed to exemplify “Minnesota nice” and tolerance though she would lock her valuables in the trunk if she left her upscale neighborhood and would cross the street to avoid minorities. Despite a strong intellect and quick wit she was, in my biased opinion, one of the most ironically stupid humans I’ve ever met and she did it on purpose. Once she Believed something it became immutable and she never changed her mind after deciding Hitler really was a threat in 1942.
One of the proofs of her particular brand of stupidity was when she became a booster for Crazy Shelly, despite living outside her district, because her Priest endorsed her. She spent the last active year of her life going door to door spreading Crazy Shelly’s message.
I can’t underestimate the danger of a political figure who can do that. Crazy Shelly has a special appeal to those who Believe in “missions from God” and that’s still a whole lot of people.
July 25th, 2009 at 6:28 pmYes, that’s very sinister. Perhaps I figured it was obvious, given that it had already been plainly stated that the blog was formed in response to frustration with TP.
If you are bound and determined to pick a fight, please go find a bar.
July 25th, 2009 at 6:29 pm166.Hoodathunktick says: Dixie blood, I was responding to hanshiro’s claim and used his terms. I am not an official member of the site. I do visit the site, post with the members and am proud and happy to say I have been welcomed there. I may have spoken out of turn, I can’t speak for the members of the Zoo.
What does that mean? You post as medjhiesco at the site. Are you some sort of non-member member? Why the tap dance?
Seems you zoo buddies are a might evasive and select your phrasing curiously…
July 25th, 2009 at 6:29 pmSorry, but that last post was in response to hanshiro’s question about why the TP in the name.
July 25th, 2009 at 6:30 pmWell, so much for a nice afternoon working around the house and reading TP. Now that AJ has left the building it seems Hanshiro is dedicated to taking up the cause.
Hanshiro, I haven’t voted you down either, but I’ve got to ask, why are you trying to alienate everybody?
Isn’t seven hours of bickering enough for anyone? I guess it’s not for some people.
July 25th, 2009 at 6:30 pmIf you’re “having a hard time trying to understand what your point is,” you ain’t trying.
Well, I’ll be honest with you. It’s more from a lack of caring than it is from any lack of trying. I, along with several other posters, many of whom are not Critters at TheZoo like me, have given you several suggestions on how to resolve your issues with TP. Rather than take us up on our suggestions, you have chosen a different approach.
But, I tell you what. For no other reason than out of the goodness of my heart, I will not vote down any more of your comments. Even the ones where you go into a rant about the subjects TP is not talking about on that particular day (even if they covered it in the previous few days.)
In the meantime, good luck with that blog of yours that you so desperately seem to want to start, where you can discuss any topic you like. You can then come here, find a thread completely unrelated to the topic you want to write about (which would seem to be all of them), and invite pople here to go there.
I will give you credit for one thing. You sure do know how to test the patience of someone who prefers to be cordial. I hope that takes you far in life, and I hope it’s a good one for you. Good day to you, sir.
July 25th, 2009 at 6:31 pmhanshiro,
The person who originally set up the site is no longer around so I don’t know exactly why. I do think we were trying to make it easy for all the people who were frustrated with the trolls to reconnect somewhere else. It was during the days of Mr. President trying to destroy the site. You can do your best to alienate regulars from this site but TP will go on with or without us or you.
July 25th, 2009 at 6:32 pm174.Hoodathunktick says:
I asked what the “TP” stood for. Fair question. Why do you get cranky and evasive?
It’s a simple answer, “Yes, TP in tpzoo stands for “ThinkProgress.”"
July 25th, 2009 at 6:32 pmHoodathunktick says:
Sorry, but that last post was in response to hanshiro’s question about why the TP in the name.
Rats. I thought I’d found an excuse to head for the bar.
July 25th, 2009 at 6:32 pmI am not an official member of the site. What does that mean?
If English is not understandable, it means just what it says. Just as I read and post here, I read and post there. As I do on a few other sites. Sorry, no black helicopters.
July 25th, 2009 at 6:33 pmdixie blood, have you ever had any problem with me? I don’t know what kind of blind loyalty you’re talking about but then you weren’t addressing it to me. It’s too bad if you’re falling for the propaganda being flung by the troll.
July 25th, 2009 at 6:35 pmI thought that evident in the explanation. If you’re suggesting that we are officially connected with Think Progress in any way you’re wrong. But then again it’s what you do best.
July 25th, 2009 at 6:36 pmIf communicating with folks of like mind and appreciating comraderie and pleasantness is considered blind loyalty, I’m glad I do not live in your world, dixie blood.
July 25th, 2009 at 6:38 pm169. gummble-bee-itch says: I admit that I speak up when someone (you, in this case) starts slandering my friends. If you’d like to provide some evidence for that claim of yours, though, I’d be happy to look at it. Be specific, however.
Look to the thread link I posted above. There are several instances where little zoo buddies violate the very practices they call others out for. Ad hom, attacking the poster, not the post, etc.
Joe was attacked multiple times across many threads by zooey, and other members. Dbadass seems to be either a member or a friend who garners no criticism for constant disruption, even having Ralph defend his disruption. (Ralph a non-member member too?)
July 25th, 2009 at 6:39 pmThat’s right, Shayne. Our only connection to ThinkProgress is that we all met here. Some of us ran across each other at other sites (like C&L or FDL), but this is where most of us were at the time. And it was out of frustration with people like He Who Shall Not Be Named (as the one you referred to is known at TheZoo) that we started the blog. And that was two years ago next month.
The site was originally called “TPZoo” (for various reasons), and that became part of the URL for the site, but we decided to drop the “TP” part and just call our blog “TheZoo”. But, of course, we couldn’t change the official URL of the site, so that’s why our friend here thinks we’re still called “TPZoo”.
July 25th, 2009 at 6:43 pm184. Shayne says: I thought that evident in the explanation. If you’re suggesting that we are officially connected with Think Progress in any way you’re wrong. But then again it’s what you do best.
Witness how asking a simple, straightforward question draws attacks, insults and conspiracy. I never said you were connected. I asked a simple question, apparently even those prove too much for zoo members, since both you and gummble reacted in the same, cranky, defensive hostile manner.
A pattern begins to emerge….
July 25th, 2009 at 6:44 pmHave a very nice life, Hanshiro and enjoy your postings.
July 25th, 2009 at 6:46 pm187.Wayne A. Schneider says: But, of course, we couldn’t change the official URL of the site, so that’s why our friend here thinks we’re still called “TPZoo”.
Or, maybe the link you’re sporting clearly says ‘tpzoo.’
July 25th, 2009 at 6:46 pm185.Hoodathunktick says: If communicating with folks of like mind and appreciating comraderie and pleasantness is considered blind loyalty, I’m glad I do not live in your world, dixie blood.
No, but defending them for bad behavior and insulting people is blind loyalty. Not calling them for attacking others via ad hom is blind loyalty.
Do you have to be a member to post at tpzoo?
July 25th, 2009 at 6:48 pmYes, downrating for pointing out that your link says ‘tpzoo.’
You’re a stable lot, you are….
July 25th, 2009 at 6:50 pmGood grief, Hanshiro—stop being such a tittybaby. If you can’t get along, get out. Get some fresh air. Visit with friends and family.
July 25th, 2009 at 6:52 pmhanshiro,
I believe my explanation was very clear. The blog was originally called “TPZoo”. You can change the name of a blog, but I don’t think you can change its URL. (Maybe you can, but then all the people who bookmarked your old URL would have a hard time finding it again.) That is the reason (and the ONLY) reason you still see “TPZoo” in our name links.
Do you need anything else about our blog clarified for you? BTW, we post threads about the things that interest us personally. We have no group agenda, though some of us may have our own goals in mind. We don’t make any money off it, so we’re not planning on getting rich blogging full time. We do it for our own enjoyment. If TP had music nights and cesspool parties on weekends, things might be different. Right now we’d be happy if they would start posting Open Threads for the weekends, so that people who wish to discuss things that are not on topic for that post. (And we do have daily open threads at TheZoo. But we also have rules, too.)
July 25th, 2009 at 6:53 pmhanshiro says:
Yes, downrating for pointing out that your link says ‘tpzoo.’
If it means anything to you, I give you my word of honor that none of those down votes came from me.
July 25th, 2009 at 6:53 pmNo but we’re not as kind as Faiz is and we wouldn’t allow you to insult us like you insult TP. TheZoo is a safe haven from trolls.
July 25th, 2009 at 6:54 pm182.Hoodathunktick says: If English is not understandable, it means just what it says. Just as I read and post here, I read and post there. As I do on a few other sites. Sorry, no black helicopters.
It’s your version of it that has me stumped. Either you belong to the site or you don’t. Of you have to be a member to post, then you’re “official,” unless that designation carries some hidden zoo meaning other than being registered as a member.
Yes, it comes off as evasive to split hairs between a member and “official member.” What’s the difference?
July 25th, 2009 at 6:55 pm195.Wayne A. Schneider says: If it means anything to you, I give you my word of honor that none of those down votes came from me.
The bald irony of my point being proven over cliquish behavior is somehow lost, however…
Is our posters learning yet?
July 25th, 2009 at 6:56 pmLet me take a stab at that one, hanshiro. A “member” is anyone who registers and posts comments. An “official member” is one who founded the site and/or has inveted time in it’s upkeep and content.
BTW, I’m neither.
July 25th, 2009 at 6:59 pmhanshiro says:
169. gummble-bee-itch says: I admit that I speak up when someone (you, in this case) starts slandering my friends. If you’d like to provide some evidence for that claim of yours, though, I’d be happy to look at it. Be specific, however.
Look to the thread link I posted above. There are several instances where little zoo buddies violate the very practices they call others out for. Ad hom, attacking the poster, not the post, etc.
I’ve read this accusation from you before, and when I looked at the comments, it seemed to me that you were highly defensive. What you define as being “attacked” seems to be when anyone reacts to your tone and suggests that you modify your approach. By now, though, your credibility is nil in terms of calling others out for ad hominem attacks.
Joe was attacked multiple times across many threads by zooey, and other members. Dbadass seems to be either a member or a friend who garners no criticism for constant disruption, even having Ralph defend his disruption. (Ralph a non-member member too?)
Again, “attacked” is your term. Joe was repeatedly asked, by at one point more than 40 people here, to refrain from constantly posting off topic and demanding that his opinion on what was important had to prevail on the blog.
Ralph may have posted one or two comments a couple of years ago, but not since, to my knowledge. Dbadass plots his own path; at The Zoo he mostly offers advice about food.
July 25th, 2009 at 7:01 pmI’ve been so disgusted by troll droppings, that I’m making my domain members only. You have to get an invitation to make comments. I make no apologies. Don’t like it—start your own blog. People are no more entitled to access to privately owned bandwidth than they are entitled to sit on my couch.
July 25th, 2009 at 7:01 pmShayne says:
——————————————————————————–
dixie blood says:
Blind loyalty is a beatch….
dixie blood, have you ever had any problem with me?
No
I don’t know what kind of blind loyalty you’re talking about but then you weren’t addressing it to me.
Tru’dat…
“It’s too bad if you’re falling for the propaganda being flung by the troll.”
Q: What’s the difference between a “troll” by the clique’s definition and a large misinformed clique?
A: The size of the misinformed attack. Both are misinformed!!!
I’m not defending anyone here. I’m asking everyone to consider a diverse dialog.
I’ve been attacked here many times and that’s fine. I will be attacked tonight for sure. That’s great too.
And I welcome everyone here to blast away at my comments and put me in my place like a “rag doll” previously owned by a sexually molested little blond girl.
July 25th, 2009 at 7:02 pmhanshiro,
If you ever visited TheZoo, you might have seen that we also offer Guest Posts (just like TP does). We have also promoted a few people from Guest Poster to full-fledged Critter. You can see who the Critters are by clicking the link at the top of the page there.
Is there anything else you don’t understand about TheZoo? Because I’m sure TP would prefer that we talk about their site instead.
July 25th, 2009 at 7:02 pmJack Mehoff @134
repugs don’t know how to be on the side of US citizens.
Nearly 2,000 show up for free health care in Va. (via buzzflash)
July 25th, 2009 at 7:03 pmSTFU hanshiro, you are getting on my last nerve with all your whining and bs.
TP ain’t about your baby ass.
July 25th, 2009 at 7:09 pm203. Wayne A. Schneider says: Is there anything else you don’t understand about TheZoo? Because I’m sure TP would prefer that we talk about their site instead.
Wayne, I’ve not requested further clarification, yet you’ve posted twice, further wasting TP’s pixels.
#198 Wayne. Apparently zoo buddies lack a critical comprehension in this matter…
You continually ignore you own cliquish behavior, even when it is laid bare in front of you, yet you continue to downrate me for objecting to being given the tpzoo buddies hazing. Apparently intellectual dishonesty, and disingenuous claims, like I have multiple profiles here, or I’m a republican troll, get tossed down the memory hole when the zoo buddies are recalling history.
Gummble, conveniently sees no such behavior by the vaunted tpzoo buddies….even when it’s right in front of him, even when he’s a participant. People defending themselves from attacks are hypocrites for…defending themselves.
Please, go back to that dank little website and stay there. There is substance when you aren’t around.
July 25th, 2009 at 7:16 pm205. Game of Life says:STFU hanshiro, you are getting on my last nerve with all your whining and bs. TP ain’t about your baby ass.
Ooohh, you’re a scary bunny….
July 25th, 2009 at 7:17 pmThere is substance when you aren’t around.
I’m not here 24 hours a day, so yes, there is substance here when I’m not around. It’s only logical.
Are you suggesting that I have conspired with some of my fellow Critters at TheZoo to rate all your comments down?
July 25th, 2009 at 7:21 pm199. pete says: Let me take a stab at that one, hanshiro. A “member” is anyone who registers and posts comments. An “official member” is one who founded the site and/or has inveted time in it’s upkeep and content.
Fair enough, but when I asked Hooda, I didn’t request the levels or types of membership, his implication was that he was an ‘outsider,’ and not really a member. It comes off as evasive in order to defend the clique/site without admitting you belong to the site.
Sounds disingenuous and evasive to me, and if some republican had used that specificity to explain his ‘membership’ in something he was being evasive about, like an exclusive Country club, thinking people would be all over it.
Yet, here, amongst the clique, it gets a pass….
July 25th, 2009 at 7:28 pm208. Wayne A. Schneider says: I’m not here 24 hours a day, so yes, there is substance here when I’m not around. It’s only logical. Are you suggesting that I have conspired with some of my fellow Critters at TheZoo to rate all your comments down?
Do you just make up implications out of thin air?
July 25th, 2009 at 7:30 pmhanshiro says:
Please, go back to that dank little website and stay there. There is substance when you aren’t around.
I’m going to toddle off before I lose my temper. Bad enough the M’s were shelled two nights in a row. If I need this kind of abuse, I’ll phone my ex-wife.
hanshiro, your problem really is not The Zoo or its members. We seem to provide a handy scapegoat, but we really are not the problem.
July 25th, 2009 at 7:32 pmDo you just make up implications out of thin air?
It would seem that it is you who is doing that more than me. But you seem to imply that all of us from TheZoo are voting you down, which is not true.
July 25th, 2009 at 7:34 pm200.gummble-bee-itch says: Ralph may have posted one or two comments a couple of years ago, but not since, to my knowledge. Dbadass plots his own path; at The Zoo he mostly offers advice about food.
So let’s see, that’s Ralph, dbadass, zooey, gummble, Wayne, Hooda, Shayne, Briseadh na Faire, jame, practically the whole thread is tpzoo buddies defending….tpzoo buddies. All fair and balanced.
What are the odds….?
July 25th, 2009 at 7:37 pmhanshiro,
And, speaking only for myself, I would suggest trying to take things less personally. One of the reasons I don’t post at The Zoo is because I like to compartmentalize some aspects of my life. I’m uncomfortable with two separate but related groups or cliques, if you prefer.
It took me a few decades but I learned that I’m most comfortable when I keep my friends separate from my family, my coworkers separate from my friends, and so on. I find the same approach beneficial on blogs too. I even take it to the point where I try, very hard, to keep individual threads separate. It’s painfully obvious that you brought an old grudge to a new topic.
It just seems kind of silly to me to carry the last thread’s disagreement into the next when, if it were forgotten, all parties may agree. From your very first post you condemned anyone who thinks this is an important story and from my first post I’ve tried to explain why I think it is important. And all the while it appears like you just keep looking for more conflict.
If you feel abused by some “clique” take whatever measures you see fit but, please don’t condemn TP and this community for discussing something that doesn’t appeal to you.
July 25th, 2009 at 7:40 pm212.Wayne A. Schneider says: It would seem that it is you who is doing that more than me. But you seem to imply that all of us from TheZoo are voting you down, which is not true.
Please show me where I said, “All of the zoo are voting me down.”
And please explain why I got 4 down votes for simply pointing out that your link says ‘tpzoo.’ And three for pointing out the irony of downrating a simple statement.
Yes, please clarify.
July 25th, 2009 at 7:41 pmHanshiro, one last comment before I forget you exist. IF your claims are true then most of your posts should be in the tank. Go look at them. Most comments are in the 2-6 range. Some positive, some negative. Where are yours?
If there was some sort of conspiracy, where would they be?
Have a nice life, Hanshiro.
July 25th, 2009 at 7:45 pmhanshiro,
Do you understand what the word “imply” means? I never said you said it directly, I said you implied it. (See your posts at #144 and #186.)
And since I was not any of the down votes to which you refer, I cannot offer you an explanation.
But I’ll tell you what I will do. I’m going in the other room to watch the Mets lose again and I won’t give you any ratings one way or the other. So if you continue to get down votes, don’t blame everyone at TheZoo.
And, as I said before, good luck with your new blog. I look forward to visiting it some day.
July 25th, 2009 at 7:49 pm214. pete says: hanshiro, And, speaking only for myself, I would suggest trying to take things less personally. One of the reasons I don’t post at The Zoo is because I like to compartmentalize some aspects of my life. I’m uncomfortable with two separate but related groups or cliques, if you prefer.
Were it a matter of short and recent incidence, I would agree, but this has been going on for some time, and the principles have been routinely and consistently attacking dissent and goading fights.
It just seems kind of silly to me to carry the last thread’s disagreement into the next when, if it were forgotten, all parties may agree.
Again, I agree, but dbadass, whom I now understand is also a tpzoo buddy, has harassed mercilessly across threads, without so much as a stfu from his fellow zoo buddies. In fact he gets defended for even the most trollish behavior.
If you feel abused by some “clique” take whatever measures you see fit but, please don’t condemn TP and this community for discussing something that doesn’t appeal to you.
Again, I agree and at times the urgency of some issues and the hypocrisy of Obama infuriates me. Passions run high on political blogs. That said, I’ve had very civil and in-depth discussions routinely disrupted by the same sources who have resorted to ad hom attacks and retreating to the unofficial tpzoo motto: Attack the poster, not the post.
On topic or off, the attackers don’t discern, they just disagree.They are almost invariably associated with the tpzoo. I will point out that the ratings for my posts have fluctuated, meaning there are those who see these members for what they are.
July 25th, 2009 at 7:52 pmHere’s my first, and only comment to this point, on this thread today:
Jane E. Schneider says:
“In an attempt to attack the public health insurance option, Bachmann complained that it would be subsidized, making it more affordable for many Americans. She added, “it would offer equal or better benefits than any plan — but cheaper.”
Then Crazy Shelley concluded with, “How insane is that?”
July 25th, 2009 at 11:09 am
Now, I will proceed with my second comment on this thread today:
“So let’s see, that’s Ralph, dbadass, zooey, gummble, Wayne, Hooda, Shayne, Briseadh na Faire, jame, practically the whole thread is tpzoo buddies defending….tpzoo buddies. All fair and balanced.”
Is “jame” supposed to be “Jane”? If so, please show my comments on this thread today where I defended “tpzoo buddies.”
July 25th, 2009 at 7:56 pmIt’s been over three hours since I left, and hanshiro hasn’t proved I’m a liar.
Works for me.
July 25th, 2009 at 7:58 pm217.Wayne A. Schneider says: Do you understand what the word “imply” means? I never said you said it directly, I said you implied it. (See your posts at #144 and #186.)
Do you understand what the word “all” means? That was your word, not mine.
So if you continue to get down votes, don’t blame everyone at TheZoo.
Just most?
And, as I said before, good luck with your new blog. I look forward to visiting it some day.
How thick are you Wayne? I’ve stated already in response that I am not starting a blog. I’ve typed slower, if that helps….Maybe this explains the zoo mentality…despite clear statements, you just don’t see what you don’t want to see.
July 25th, 2009 at 7:58 pm219.Jane E. Schneider says:
Like I said to Wayne because he wanted to claim “all.” I purposely said ‘practically.’
Take a deep breath; I was pointing out the totality of zoo members.
“practically.’
July 25th, 2009 at 8:01 pmSo, who’s “jame”?
July 25th, 2009 at 8:04 pmI’ll bet it’s gonna be a really nice blog, hanshiro. One where you write about all the things that cause you concern, and all the progressive issues that TP is not writing about. I bet it’ll be so popular that participation on this blog drops off to practically nothing.
Actually, hanshiro, I believe it is YOU who are not getting the point.
Go
start
your
own
blog!
Good day, sir!
July 25th, 2009 at 8:05 pmActually, I’ve been gone about 7 hours (time flies when you’re having fun), and I’ve not been proved a liar by hanshiro.
Even better.
July 25th, 2009 at 8:06 pm216.Hoodathunktick says: Hanshiro, one last comment before I forget you exist. IF your claims are true then most of your posts should be in the tank. Go look at them. Most comments are in the 2-6 range. Some positive, some negative. Where are yours?
Your assertion is a fallacy.
There are members who do see the behavior of the little zoo buddies and rate the comments accordingly. That doesn’t mean they want to become the next target on the tpzoo radar.
Joe was assaulted here despite trying to ignore the attacks and participate.
The little clique is no ghost, it’s virulent and cranky, dicouraging dissent and attacking those who disagree with grade-school shenanigans like compiling a list of names to ostracize another poster.
What a disgrace.
July 25th, 2009 at 8:06 pm225.Zooey says: Actually, I’ve been gone about 7 hours (time flies when you’re having fun), and I’ve not been proved a liar by hanshiro.
Let’s make your absence permanent! That way, by your logic, I’ll never prove you anything…
‘Works for me.’
July 25th, 2009 at 8:11 pmYou’re not hearing me, hanshiro.
Try to isolate yourself in this thread. Your first post was a condemnation and it resurrected an old grudge. And, even if your intention was to begin a positive discussion about another subject, it turned into your personal pissing match and pretty much every “voice of reason” has been savaged.
From my perspective your only purpose here was to derail the thread and, when the thread turned to you, you started in with the “see, I told ya” BS.
July 25th, 2009 at 8:13 pmYou called me a liar several times, hanshiro.
You can’t back it up.
I understand.
July 25th, 2009 at 8:15 pmOk, since my last post some time ago, I stated I hadn’t voted down anything Hanshiro wrote (which was true). However, in my opinion your close to the point where I would vote down anything you post.
What’s the point of alienating everyone? If your getting negatives it’s because your here feeding it.
By the way, I’ve been invited to the zoo and I’ve checked it out. Seems nice enough to me, but as I’ve said before I’m not much of a cook (they post alot about food). I’d like to read some of your real conspiracy theories about JFK, or 9/11 or something.
This rant about a conspiracy of zoo members out to get you is just plain rediculous.
July 25th, 2009 at 8:19 pmRich H,
Have another visit to TheZoo. Not much about food today. :)
July 25th, 2009 at 8:23 pmIs that what this crap is about? Is this about the “another Joe is a dink” list? Sheesh!
I entered late on the whole deal, like I did on this thread, but all that I know is that I made a very nonjudgmental comment and he went rabid on me.
If it’s any comfort, hanshiro, I didn’t make the connection until now. I’m just involved because I think that Bachmann is an important story and objected to your apparent wish to stifle discussion about her.
July 25th, 2009 at 8:25 pmpete,
I don’t think any of the Zoo Critters started that AJ list. I remember saying I was in agreement with the list.
———
This is just beyond ridiculous — it’s been going on over 8 hours.
I’m so sorry, Faiz. My part in this is done.
July 25th, 2009 at 8:30 pm228.pete says:You’re not hearing me, hanshiro.Try to isolate yourself in this thread. Your first post was a condemnation and it resurrected an old grudge. And, even if your intention was to begin a positive discussion about another subject, it turned into your personal pissing match and pretty much every “voice of reason” has been savaged.
The single post was downrated and not addressed, as has been the practice for some time now. Any criticism of Obama has been met with a standard that pointedly did not apply to bush, despite the fact that Obama is perpetuating bush policies. You have not reviewed past approaches, so isolating this thread and assuming voices of reason negates the recent history and direct attacks from regulars who indulge in similar behavior and come to each other’s defense.
Witness the downrated simple declarative statement.
Being attacked for substantive posts routinely in the past, regardless of courtesy extended, obliterates the expectation of being extended like treatment.
From my perspective your only purpose here was to derail the thread and, when the thread turned to you, you started in with the “see, I told ya” BS.
Again, the recent cliquish behavior has erased that expectation. Peruse some of the longer posts from the past. Ralph, zooey, dbadass have been absolutely asinine, yet they are defended and their targets are vilified.
You may say that the past is the past, yet no approach has been met with civility if the clique disagrees. I’ve watched zooey and ralph reduce a civil discussion to embers and point fingers and fallacies everywhere else. dbadass should have been banned long ago.
They packed up and left TP when they didn’t like it. I speak up and complain. Sometimes it works, sometimes not, but that is not my overriding contribution by a long shot, nor does that give the little zoo buddies any rights to call others “whiners” or attack their motives when they don’t like a sourced and cogent point or tangential post.
They do this. A lot.
They are self-appointed blog sheriffs who attack other posters. Since when has anyone in their right mind compiled a list to exclude someone?
Geeezus.
July 25th, 2009 at 8:33 pmZooey,
I still luv ya and worship you from afar. I wouldn’t apologize to Faiz since it looks like this is just an ongoing grudge with a touch of “martyr complex”. Pretty silly stuff now that I finally realized what’s going on.
July 25th, 2009 at 8:35 pm229.zooey says: You called me a liar several times, hanshiro.
You’ve called me a liar, zooey. Your claim is every bit as valid as mine. What, you don’t like someone just calling you a liar?
July 25th, 2009 at 8:36 pmProve it, hanshiro.
That’s all. Prove I called you a liar.
July 25th, 2009 at 8:38 pm235.pete says:Zooey, I still luv ya and worship you from afar. I wouldn’t apologize to Faiz since it looks like this is just an ongoing grudge with a touch of “martyr complex”. Pretty silly stuff now that I finally realized what’s going on.
So much for your objectivity, there pete. Besides, people keep asking questions.
So you ask questions or make idiotic conclusions, but in clarifying and trying to present the other side, I’m the one who presents the problem.
Ah I see. I’ll stop posting about it if you will.
July 25th, 2009 at 8:42 pmFriends don’t let friends blog drunk.
July 25th, 2009 at 8:44 pmMichelle is only good for one thing, and all of the men out there know what that is. The only problem is that she doesn’t remember breath becauce she’s just that stupid. I didn’t know a blonde could die her hair black.
July 25th, 2009 at 8:45 pmpete,
I just feel bad about this thread being obliterated.
Maybe it’s appropriate, since it’s a Crazy Bachmann thread?
July 25th, 2009 at 8:46 pmSince I’m not acting as a judge, hanshiro, my objectivity isn’t much of an issue. I only just figured out what the whole dispute is all about. I didn’t say you are a problem, I’m just trying to find some common ground.
July 25th, 2009 at 8:47 pmZooey,
It’s a very interesting thread, if somewhat distasteful. Since I just finally realized what the thread is really about I haven’t decided whether it’s a net gain. It’s really interesting to look back and see how my posts shape up now that I realize I was having a different conversation than the one I thought.
Weird!
July 25th, 2009 at 8:51 pm237.Zooey says: Prove it, hanshiro. That’s all. Prove I called you a liar.
I cannot wait to hear the spin….
July 25th, 2009 at 8:59 pm243.pete says:
What’s your insight Pete? Does it have any bearing in the truth or just a comfortable assumption?
July 25th, 2009 at 9:00 pmNo spin necessary, hanshiro. You said you were issued an “invitation to join [the Zoo] a while back.” Since that was news to to me, I asked you who invited you.
You couldn’t (or wouldn’t) answer that question. That tells me you were lying. Calling you a liar at the time was the truth.
Maybe you can answer the question now…?
Let’s get this cleared up, shall we?
July 25th, 2009 at 9:09 pm245.hanshiro says:
Insight on what? Seriously, we have two separate conversations going on and I just realized that. And that doesn’t even include my personal message for Zooey. So…?
July 25th, 2009 at 9:10 pm246. Zooey says:You couldn’t (or wouldn’t) answer that question. That tells me you were lying. Calling you a liar at the time was the truth.
I knew you’d be a coward.
In what possible universe does refusing to answer a question constitute lying?
July 25th, 2009 at 9:11 pmzooey, this crap is typical of your little zoo buddies clique. I refuse to answer a question from a trollish horses @ss, and suddenly you’re making up definitions.
What a complete joke you are.
July 25th, 2009 at 9:13 pmI knew you’d make that swerve, hanshiro.
If you don’t like the way something is going, you make a dodge to the left or the right. It’s never straight forward with you.
Answer the question — if you can.
July 25th, 2009 at 9:15 pmYeah yeah yeah, you stick with that, hanshiro.
I’ve posted “the rest of the story,” and you can’t handle it.
How very typical.
July 25th, 2009 at 9:15 pm247.pete says:
Instead of being evasive, Pete, let’s cut to the chase.
What parallel conversations are you imagining you’re having? Clear enough?
July 25th, 2009 at 9:15 pmeffin a hanshiro. Give it up. Man you are just desperate for attention. It’s sad and pathetic.
Even trying to draw in comments from another poster i.e. Pete, just to keep your rant going.
I did say it was pathetic, right?
You seem to have kept me out of your posts, which is fine, don’t bother bringing me into this. I’ve got some stuff do then I’m going out for dinner.
Out of curiosity I’ll check this thread when I get back in. Do yourself a favor and give it up. This isn’t a last man standing match. You’ve been counted out but just refuse to acknowledge it.
It’s sad, really really sad.
July 25th, 2009 at 9:17 pm250.Zooey says: I knew you’d make that swerve, hanshiro.
If you don’t like the way something is going, you make a dodge to the left or the right. It’s never straight forward with you.
Not answering your oafish demand doesn’t make me a liar. What the hell is wrong with you?
July 25th, 2009 at 9:18 pmhanshiro,
What the hell is wrong with ME?
You’ve been here NINE hours with this shit? Look in the mirror, man.
The thread is yours.
Toodles.
July 25th, 2009 at 9:19 pmHow ironic of Bachmann to scarify people by mentioning Castro
July 25th, 2009 at 9:20 pmand Havana, when Cuba’s health care is actually superior to
Americas’.
255.Zooey says: What the hell is wrong with ME?
God only knows. Coward.
July 25th, 2009 at 9:22 pmThe parallel conversations I refer to, hanshiro, are:
1. The ongoing feud, of which I was unaware before this thread, between you and the Zoo.
2. My response to your dismissal of a story about Crazy Shelly.
July 25th, 2009 at 9:27 pmPerhaps, hanshiro, I can explain best by repeating my first post on this thread?
That was my response to your dismissal of the story and has nothing to do with your ongoing dispute with other posters here at TP.
July 25th, 2009 at 9:34 pmGees, next time I see a thread with this many comments, I should probably just assume it’s become a train wreck.
Didn’t Obama say, “we can disagree without being disagreeable”
July 25th, 2009 at 9:45 pmhanshiro is still here? I thought Saturday was reach-around night for him and Another Joe…
July 25th, 2009 at 9:47 pmpete says:
The parallel conversations I refer to, hanshiro, are:
1. The ongoing feud, of which I was unaware before this thread, between you and the Zoo.
feud Noun long and bitter hostility between two families, clans, or individuals
For the record, a feud requires two sides filled with enmity. As far as I can see, the enmity is entirely one-sided. No one in The Zoo, to my knowledge, has anything like a grudge toward hanshiro.
So, no. It’s not a feud.
July 25th, 2009 at 10:01 pmWow. Just wow. I’ve been gone for hours but certain issues are still unresolved.
In the interest of full disclosure, my real name is not “spencers mom” although I am, in fact, Spencer’s mom.
I post on occasion over at The Zoo under the well-hidden name of spencersmom, so it’s probably hard to tell that’s still me. I am not a Critter, but was invited over there on the evening that Dennis Kucinich stood alone on the House floor reading his 35 Articles of Impeachment into the official record. TP didn’t have a thread up to cover it but Zooey kindly informed me that they had a thread going over at TheZoo. I suspect the real reason they tolerate me is because I’m usually the first one up in the morning, so I make that first pot of coffee. I’ve never felt unwelcome and I suspect it’s because there are many like-minded people who post there.
I also post at TPM under, wait for it, Spencers Mom, and at Crooks and Liars as SpencersMom. (note that I’m crafty enough to slip in the occasional capital letter and even sometimes take out the space between “spencers” and “mom” to make it virtually impossible for anyone to see that’s it’s all the same person posting.) I used to post over at HuffPo as SpencersMom, but that place has more moderators than an SAT test, and has become the progressive version of the National Enquirer.
Hanshiro, I don’t know how this feud began, and please don’t take that as a request for another full run down of each event that led to this escalation. Again, in the interest of full disclosure, it was I who posted that AJ had posted 35 of the first 100 comments on a Sunday morning thread a few weeks back, many of which were designed to either take the thread in the direction only he saw fit or to bait other posters about being blindly loyal to the President. So you can vote me down for admitting this now, as we didn’t have the vote down feature back then.
ThinkProgress is by far my favorite site to read and to post. I guess I don’t see the blind loyalty, the unwillingness to question the President, the sycophantic cliquish behavior you are seeing.
Most of us here would like to see real healthcare reform, and I suspect it is the number one issue on most of our wish lists. I also want to see investigations into the criminal activities of the previous administration as well as the restoration of our Constitution. Repealing DADT is up there, too, as is reform of our energy policies, the roll back of tax cuts for the uber-wealthy, and the implementation of tough regulation in our financial sector. I am critical of Obama because I don’t see enough action on any of these fronts from a President and an administration I worked so very hard to get elected.
PEACE
July 25th, 2009 at 10:11 pmspencers mom (or whatever your real name is), thank you. I didn’t have the energy to try to explain my position again, but you summed it up nicely.
Totally OT, and on a much funnier note, Young Frankenstein is on right now – what a classic! Cloris Leachman(sp?) is just brilliant.
July 25th, 2009 at 10:27 pmI know I’ll regret getting back into this, but I think I may see a possible source of some of the confusion here tonight, and the decline of the thread that ensued.
I am guessing that, at some point in the past (though how long I cannot say), that Zooey may have suggested to hanshiro that he stop by TheZoo.
It has become apparent to me from some of his comments that hanshiro believes one must be some kind of “member” to participate in commenting at TheZoo, because we have set the site to require that people register with a Wordpress account to post comments. (This is something any Wordpress blogger can do and is designed to discourage “drive-by” commenters and spammers.) If so, this would be an erroneous understanding on his part, and a possible explanation for why he believed that he was invited to become a “member” at TheZoo.
And if that’s correct, then Zooey is correct in her doubts that hanshiro was ever invited to become a “member” of TheZoo. She was probably simply inviting hanshiro to join a discussion about something at TheZoo, and hanshiro believed this was equivalent to becoming a full thread-posting Critter at TheZoo.
I could be way wrong here, but I’m just trying to find a way for everyone to save face diplomatically.
July 25th, 2009 at 10:29 pmspencer’s mom,
Well said, my friend. And we all enjoy your company at TheZoo. Don’t be a stranger there. ;)
July 25th, 2009 at 10:33 pmYou’re right, gummble. It’s more of a grudge or vendetta than a feud.
July 25th, 2009 at 10:56 pmOK spencers mom, who are you really?
July 25th, 2009 at 11:53 pmThis makes me laugh and I only read like maybe three…
July 26th, 2009 at 1:58 amStill eco-jewelry is the shits…
July 26th, 2009 at 1:59 amOT:
Hi, dbadass. My new pair of “scooter blennies” are spawning for the first time I’ve seen. Woo hoo! My favorite fish are horny!
July 26th, 2009 at 2:14 amdbadass should have been banned long ago.
July 26th, 2009 at 2:14 am–
I agree but still shouldn’t a case be made first for why? Is it possible that someone doesn’t like that others might see through facades and enjoy showing them to be what they really are? I a, starting to think that self indulgent piss-pants might be more annoying to me than tax whiners…
OT
Hi pete:
That is so cool. We need to talk as I am not as versed in this as you. How did you learn tank breeding? Was it trial/error or can you point me toward some resources that will help? I have only just got back into freshwater tanks…
Green Heron has become uncommon in my parts but weird thing is that I got 3 in the last week. I am currently on vaca some 6 states from home but haven’t gotten any bette than average birds just yet . Still Least Tern is kind of a “cute” bird…
July 26th, 2009 at 2:18 amDbadass,
I can’t really pass on any particular secrets because, to the best of my knowledge, no one has successfully bred scooters. I’ve never made it past fertile eggs that last a few days.
My last pair also spawned and produced fertile eggs but I wasn’t, even with all the resources of the intertubes, able to hatch them.
However, I can say that I owe the health of my tank to optimizing my lighting for plant growth, rather than corals and such, and let the algae keep my water quality high. I haven’t had a trace of Nitrates for three years and I don’t do water changes!
I just use 4X48″ Phillips “Daylight” tubes on my 72 gal. “bow front” tank. That keeps the algae going and I only replace the water I drain while cleaning filters.
July 26th, 2009 at 2:41 ampete:
July 26th, 2009 at 2:43 amCaptive breeding is an art. It seems you are an artist…
How come Star M never posted despite all the talk? I was near Emmaus recently but didn’t feel the need to go to the Cottage as that was just a bunch of crap…
July 26th, 2009 at 2:50 amAgain, I agree, but dbadass, whom I now understand is also a tpzoo buddy, has harassed mercilessly across threads,
July 26th, 2009 at 2:54 am—
That wasn’t me that was Ming! I only call out fools and posers but I do so only to those that are either clear frauds, obvious posers, or wannabe attention seekers. Damn why is it that needy always have the feathers which are most easily ruffled?
As for freshwater, dbadass, I haven’t kept a freshwater tank in years and didn’t really know what I was doing at the time. However, I know now, I never gave my freshwater tanks enough light. But that’s not the biggest factor.
The most important thing is to chose critters that match your source water rather than try to adjust water parameters to match your fish. For instance…
When I lived in a home with “soft” water I had success with angelfish, neons, gouramis, and other soft water fish. When I had “hard” water I had success with African cichlids, catfish, and other hard water fish.
July 26th, 2009 at 2:55 ampete:
July 26th, 2009 at 3:04 amI am assuming you are isolating your breeders to non mixed tanks where other community members can’t just gobble up the eggs. I am mostly an in situ science guy. This inside more controlled stuff is not my first skill set…
dbadass,
My breeders are in my mixed tank. With 100+ lbs. of live rock and all the algae, I can’t really capture the fish. I can, however, collect the eggs if I’m ready for them.
This new pair of scooters had not spawned before tonight and I didn’t have my contraptions set up. I’ll catch some eggs the next time.
I had a previous pair, who also spawned, and I set up some nurseries and I was able to get eggs to the stage where I could see the embryo with a magnifying glass. Then they would succumb to fungus.
Unfortunately my old pair of scooters died when I was in the hospital and my light timer failed. I’ve just been waiting to see if the new pair would spawn before I set up my experimental brooding devices.
The funny part is that I stumbled upon this by accident. The conventional wisdom says that scooters shouldn’t be mixed. However, I got an “extra” one with some live rock and they started engaging in spawning behavior. After the first pair died tragically I decided to get a new pair and presto! The new pair is spawning too.
July 26th, 2009 at 3:23 amThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
I wonder what “orgu” means…
July 26th, 2009 at 11:16 amMichele Bachmann (R-MN) and Al Qaeda are on the same team. They both want America to fail.
July 26th, 2009 at 7:53 pmWe need to see what our friends across the aisle are saying and doing. Even a dunce like Bachmann is rallying Republicans. We have to get our word out to everyone that big corporations that screw Americans aren’t better than the government at providing health care. They do have a lot of money however and the tap is going to be turned on at full blast.Bachmann seems to be concerned about big Government,i wish she would worry as much about her constituents pocketbooks. She is more concerned with the President’s popularity than she is about how people can survive these tough economic times.
July 26th, 2009 at 11:06 pmRE: #43, 72, 99 etc. There have been huge increases from a lot of providers this year, and my belief is that a rate freeze as a part of reform is anticipated. They want to get the huge increases in before the freeze is enacted.Why else act in such an arrogant manner? OOPS! Maybe it’s just pure arrogance?? Either way we are screwed.
July 27th, 2009 at 12:43 am
July 27th, 2009 at 9:24 amWhat’s all this blather about breeding fish?
Does Michele Bachmann make you think of miscegenation?
As a self-proclaimed supporter of small business, she doesn’t seem to comprehend that small business right now can’t afford to offer group health insurance for their employees. This diminishes the pool of candidates that a start up can hire.
She says she values American ingenuity and innovation. Where does does she think that happens? Right now it’s happening in countries that have national health care or a national health insurance plan. She and the Republicans are dragging this country down.
July 28th, 2009 at 12:19 pm