Right-Wing Florida Legislators Propose State Constitutional Amendment To Ban Federal Health Care
Right-Wing Florida Legislators Propose State Constitutional Amendment To Ban Federal Health Care
As the Obama administration and Congress work to pass legislation that would expand affordable coverage for all Americans, some state lawmakers are trying to preemptively undermine those efforts.
Earlier this week, Florida State Senator Carey Baker (R) and State Representative Scott Plakon (R) introduced a state Constitutional amendment that, if adopted, would prevent Floridians from enrolling in any federal health care plan. The language of House Joint Resolution 37 states:
To preserve the freedom of all residents of the state to provide for their own health care:
A law or rule shall not compel, directly or indirectly, any person, employer, or health care provider to participate in any health care system.
“We believe this unprecedented power-grab by President Obama and Congress is clearly not in the best interests of the citizens of Florida,” Baker and Plakon said in a joint statement. Baker, who is a Republican candidate for Commissioner of Agriculture and Consumer Services, participated in the right-wing tea parties on July 4. Both he and Plakon are sponsors of a “sovereignty” memorial, a measure meant to serve “as a notice and a demand to the Federal Government…to cease and desist, effective immediately, from issuing mandates that are beyond the scope of [their] constitutionally delegated powers.”
Their amendment to ban health care would need approval by a three-fifths vote in both the House and Senate. If passed by the legislature, Florida voters would vote on the constitutional amendment on Election Day 2010.
The Orlando Sentinel notes, “Nearly 4 million Floridians are uninsured presently, and an effort last year by Gov. Charlie Crist and the Legislature called ‘Cover Florida’ to try and make more no-frills coverage plans available without placing mandates on businesses or insurers has so far failed to make a dent in that number.”
Unfortunately, Florida is not the only state considering such radical measures. The Arizona state legislature has previously approved a bill that would “put a proposal on the 2010 ballot which would constitutionally override any law, rule or regulation that requires individuals or employers to participate in any particular health care system.”
Nice move, guys. Does this mean that the Sunshine State with one of the highest levels of retiree population is now going to ban Medicare? And Arizona? Go for it.
Topic Cloud
ArchivesBlog Roll
Shitweasels. Dickweeds. Twatwaffles.
July 30th, 2009 at 3:04 pmThey really, really, really don’t want to be re-elected. They’re insane. Really, they are.
They are bent upon political suicide. Really. No doubt about it whatsoever.
I encourage them in this endeavor. Really.
July 30th, 2009 at 3:06 pmDont be too shocked, now: Baker is rabidly anti-choice, pro-gun, anti-science (Science Curriculum Flexibility? What the bloody hell..)…why would being anti-health come as such a surprise?
July 30th, 2009 at 3:06 pmFor a state in which a significantly large portion of the population is on Medicare, this type of action screams of “EFFIN HYPOCRITES.”
July 30th, 2009 at 3:07 pmThey seem proud of their insanity.
This is worse than the governors who fought against the stimulus, then accepted it. For the record, Florida’s governor, Crist, was one of the few who supported it.
July 30th, 2009 at 3:08 pm@wiley
Twatwaffles? ROFL!!!
Classic.
July 30th, 2009 at 3:08 pmHow very Orwellian of them, protecting your freedom by removing your options. Who is more free than the man who has no obligation to choose?
July 30th, 2009 at 3:09 pmNice move, guys. Does this mean that the Sunshine State with one of the highest levels of retiree population is now going to ban Medicare? And Arizona? Go for it.
July 30th, 2009 at 3:10 pmGood point. Medicare is, in fact, national health care.
Did someone tell these 2 guys that, and that there are many elderly people in Florida who depend on it, and they vote in droves? Do they realise that? Guess not.
If their amendment passes, the side effect would be no more Medicare.
These are all inconvienent facts, I suppose.
July 30th, 2009 at 3:11 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Congrats on being released from prison…
July 30th, 2009 at 3:14 pmIs the Florida legislature controlled by the GOP? If so, this has a good chance of being put on the ballot. They’re that stupid.
July 30th, 2009 at 3:14 pmWow, cellmates. Wishing you both all the happiness…
July 30th, 2009 at 3:15 pmIf we did not engage in illegal wars, Unconstitutional “police actions”, illegal bailouts, the creation of superfluous government agencies that mirror the same function as state agencies, then we would have the money to care for our sick.
If the central government program is affordable for the poor and optional, the government would have to run it efficiently in order to compete with private insurance. In the absence of competition, government will always be inefficient and wasteful, while private business will price fix and create monopolies.
Now that the United States is bankrupt and the collapse of the dollar is imminent, why hasn’t a single poltician come up with a plan to stop spending money on wars, Wall Street greed and start spending money of its constituents?
It is a sad state of affairs. We have sick people. We are bankrupt. Most nations hate us.
States passing legislation to limit the ever bloating Federal government by invoking the 10th ammendment is long overdue. I have to read Florida’s proposed ammendment, but I am sure it is not geared at the current allocation of federal income tax dollars towards veteran’s health care. I am quite certain it will be about not allowing the Federal government to force people who don’t want to partake in national health care to have to pay yet another tax.
July 30th, 2009 at 3:15 pmWondering just how many of those Medicare folks actually voted for these two clowns (note to real clowns not putting you all hard working ones down)
and guessing same toking would be how many of then will now change there voting habits.
Just hoping that this info gets out to the public in general or the old folks will just be fooled again.
July 30th, 2009 at 3:17 pmHey Florida, secede now and take your neighboring states (and Texas and Alaska, too) with you. Don’t the door hit yah…
July 30th, 2009 at 3:18 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Strike up the band! States rights! It is long past time where the states should stand up and declare their independent rights! We don’t need a federal government. All they want to do is be federal. Every state gets to decide everything, abolish the union. It is time to add 50 new independent countries to the world! The Constitution is for sissies, commies, marxists, nazis. We don’t need the ‘United States’, we need everybody for themselves!
/snark
July 30th, 2009 at 3:19 pmAnd the truck loads of kool aid and insanety keep rolling along,,,Very funny…LOL.This from the set for life on the government tit insurance and pay political nut bag’s…It just keep’s getting more crazy by the moment…..P. B. & J
July 30th, 2009 at 3:20 pmChuck Feney, you make a pun, but your joke is very close to reality. There is a possibility that certain states will want to secede. Things could get ugly in our lifetime, uglier than it is right now.
July 30th, 2009 at 3:21 pmThis is just posturing for the voters. The federal law supersedes any state law and these legislators know that.
July 30th, 2009 at 3:22 pmOne question for the ’state’s rights trolls. Who is gonna fight your wars for you?
July 30th, 2009 at 3:23 pmWhat a great idea…to get people to reverse the current migration trends!
In a few years, the South could be the Rust Belt II!
July 30th, 2009 at 3:24 pmThese two dickheads need to have the supremacy clause tattooed on their foreheads (backwards so they can read it whenever they look in a mirror assuming they ever do) — after their state-sponsored health insurance is taken away.
July 30th, 2009 at 3:24 pmReally? ….hmm there goes that free market free to choose bullcr@p again…I say, Mr Baker & Mr. Plakon, you first…please go without healtcare and health insurance for you and your families and then, only then, may you pop-off about the issue of health care…
July 30th, 2009 at 3:25 pmBut please keep those Federal stimulus dollars flowing, or else we may have to actually start a state income tax.
July 30th, 2009 at 3:26 pmWatchidiot and RealityPunk
Yeah I am sure both of you are stupid enough to think it a good idea. You are both morons of stupendous stupidity. Federal law SUPERCEDES State constitutions you mindless twits so have your states waste their time if you want to. Have them show they are morons like the two of you and let the people of the state understand how LITTLE they care about people as opposed to corporate money. My GOD the two of you are stupid
July 30th, 2009 at 3:27 pmAnyone who think secession is possible occurrence needs to realize that it’s not the 1860’s anymore.
States aren’t going to secede. They risk too much and gain nothing by doing it. Any state that does will end up a third world nation.
July 30th, 2009 at 3:28 pmYou go for it boys. I have waiting for the Republicans to attempt to eliminate Medicare and the VA.
Excuse me, I have to make the popcorn.
July 30th, 2009 at 3:28 pmHoodathunktick,
I appreciate your humor, seriously speaking the Federal government needs to be in place to make sure that each State government does not violate the Constitutional rights of the individual. This is of course is in addition to maintaining a standing army and navy, performing the function of foreign diplomacy and maintaining Federal courts. the Federal government has clearly overstepped its taxing authority in very recent history.
The concept of State’s rights by our founding fathers was ingenious, allowing for States to compete for the best and brightest citizens by providing a great living environment for its residents. In essence the states compete for citizens by trying to offer the best possible quality of life.
July 30th, 2009 at 3:29 pmWhy is it when private companies dictate outrageous fees for minimal service it is called free market capitalism yet if the government responds to the Constitutional statement of providing for the general welfare it is a power grab?
July 30th, 2009 at 3:29 pmRealityPUNK you are an ignorant lying piece of filth. You are far too stupid to understand any PART of what liberals think or want. You are a moron. Stupider than the crap I scrape off of my shoe. Your stupid is legendary. IF my CAT were as stupid as you I would have it put down out of a sense of mercy.
July 30th, 2009 at 3:29 pmDr. Hussein Matt,
That is exactly what I was thinking. It’s a “power grab” for the democratically elected President of the USA and democratically elected Congress to try to help the people and reform a broken system, yet it’s just fine that two no-name local FL politicians want to block such a program? Seems to me the “power-grab” is coming from the other direction.
What other federal programs do these two lawmakers want to ban in Florida? Medicare? How about the EPA? FEMA?
July 30th, 2009 at 3:30 pmWTF? Millions of Americans are without insurance. Are they nuts? What about people who lose their job? Why isn’t this all over MSM? What about younger people in their 20s and 30s who can’t afford insurance and suffer a debilataing illness? What happens in a emergency? What about if a hurricane hits and your injured? Don’t these morons think? Oh wait, they are Republicans.
July 30th, 2009 at 3:32 pmSo long, pardners!
Time to rid of the rest of us of these maniacs.
July 30th, 2009 at 3:32 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Compromise solution. Just ban a federal health program in Florida or better yet, South of the Mason -Dixon line. Virginia and North Carolina not included in the ban. Those two right wing tools would be crying in their beer.
July 30th, 2009 at 3:33 pmI suggest, then, an amendment to the U.S. Constitution that says, “The federal government shall not be compelled, directly or indirectly, to provide any financial assistance, directly or indirectly, to Florida in response to damage caused, directly or indirectly, by tropical storms or hurricanes.”
July 30th, 2009 at 3:33 pmTrueLiberty says:
The concept of State’s rights by our founding fathers was ingenious, allowing for States to compete for the best and brightest citizens by providing a great living environment for its residents. In essence the states compete for citizens by trying to offer the best possible quality of life.
That is not what the state’s right issue is about. The Constitution has specific powers for the federal government. The clause states that any other powers not granted are reserved to the states and the people. This means that states are free to do anything that does not infringe on the federal power and the Bill of Rights. But, note that the Commerce clause is quite broad for Congress to legislate. There are very few restraints on this power to regulate interstate commerce.
July 30th, 2009 at 3:33 pmTBender,
Russian intelligence thinks that a possible break up of the United States into five regions is a likely outcome. This of course can only be accelerated by us losing a serious war, or open rebellion against a Federal government that has become tyrannical by the people.
The United States is already tetering on the brink of becoming not 3rd world, but perhaps 2nd world as our dollar is virtually worthless and being replaced as we speak with another reserve currency. In addition to this we are bankrupt, military power in the midst of economic catastrophe will lead to an interesting endgame as this nation is clearly on its death bed.
July 30th, 2009 at 3:34 pmTrueLiberty, your words are sweet and only slightly disingenuous. We are either a country that cares for all of its citizens or we are a country that believes you get what you pay for. The Constitution is either the rock upon which we build or a piece of toilet paper. You either think with your male appendage or your entire body.
July 30th, 2009 at 3:34 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
This is pure bullshyt, man. No more federally funded Medicaid and Medicare for Florida and Arizona. But in the meantime, those same citizens will pay their public health insurance.
This will never pass with the voters and if it does than we are really in trouble.
July 30th, 2009 at 3:35 pmBuckarooBanzai says:
RealityCheck says:
watchdog says:
That is the best idea I have heard in the past decade. I will call my senator right now.
Great idea…I believe I will call both of mine now too!
Wow, cellmates. Wishing you both all the happiness…
No, not cell mates, just 2 sockpuppets of the same insane troll.
July 30th, 2009 at 3:36 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Just out of curiousity, did they decide to eliminate State healthcare as well? You know, the plan that pays for them and their families? Because that sure seems like to right thing to do.
Oh, wait, they’re GNOPers. “Do as I say, not as I do.”
PEACE
July 30th, 2009 at 3:39 pmRealityPunk
Whats wrong with YOU Reality punk didnt you make enough pocketchange while you were blowing those crackheads on skidrow yesterday? Your trailertrash whore of a wife hasnt been home in a few days and you dont know which of your brothers or hers she is sleeping with? Your trailer trashwhore of a mother wont tell you which of her brothers is your father you inbred piece of shite? Face it you are so pathetic maggots currently sitting in dogshit tell themselves at least they arent as stupid as you
July 30th, 2009 at 3:40 pmpags2
You are so correct. Now let’s name those powers granted, after we do that, anything which is not granted by Constitution is expressly forbidden for the Federal government to intefere in as stated in the tenth ammendment.
I am in total agreement with you.
The phrase you cut and paste from my comment has nothing to do with state rights. It is simply the mechanism under which state governments are kept in check. It is possible for a state to not violate the Constitution, yet still be a crappy place to live. If people have options (like moving to another state) this makes state governments compete with each other to have people live there. The end result is a free market, with a very happy population, because the state cares about keeping the people happy.
July 30th, 2009 at 3:40 pmTrueLiberty says:
Russian intelligence thinks that a possible break up of the United States into five regions is a likely outcome. This of course can only be accelerated by us losing a serious war, or open rebellion against a Federal government that has become tyrannical by the people.
July 30th, 2009 at 3:34 pm
________________
Is this the same Russian intelligence that thought invading Afghanistan was a good idea?
Oh, wait…
July 30th, 2009 at 3:41 pmHi RealityCheck
July 30th, 2009 at 3:41 pmTwat is a funny word…
TrueLiberty, the Soviet Union collapsed under economic and social pressures resulting from their trying to maintain the illusion that Leninism was a viable strategy.
At present, the US is laboring to maintain that unregulated capitalism is also viable. The big question is…can you eat money?
July 30th, 2009 at 3:41 pmRealityPunk is a stupid shiteating piece of garbage with the brain of a tse-tse fly
July 30th, 2009 at 3:42 pmWhat’s the GOP strategy for gaining seats in Congress in 2010? Let’s ask RealityCheck:
Good luck with that, guys.
July 30th, 2009 at 3:42 pmAny state so stupid to secede is beyond help….First of all unless you quickly declare war, surrender and then ask for foreign aid the said state and it’s people is asking to become a glass parking lot like much of Iraq and other countries we have bombed…Not to mention…Unless your state is Israel your out of luck cause were out of money,,,,The best a state could hope for is rotten balogna and hot tent’s or bad trailers to live in…Get real dumbass reich wingers and trolls…Game, set ,match we are in this mess together rather you like it or not…Funny thread here.. but way to crazy to go anywhere.. Blessings
July 30th, 2009 at 3:43 pmwatchdog says:
Micheal Moore has a new film out. Maybe to can gather some more lefty lunacy talking points.
Why pay for talking points when Fox gives them to the right for free?
July 30th, 2009 at 3:43 pmBut they might wriggle out of that to say that no law compels people to join Medicare and therefore Medicare’s optional…
Yes, I know the public option is also optional, but try explaining that to the Birther Morons (TM) :-)
July 30th, 2009 at 3:43 pmTrueLiberty says:
You are so correct. Now let’s name those powers granted, after we do that, anything which is not granted by Constitution is expressly forbidden for the Federal government to intefere in as stated in the tenth ammendment.
July 30th, 2009 at 3:40 pm
____________
According to this interpretation, the FAA is illegal, since regulation of air traffic was not specifically addressed in the Constitution.
July 30th, 2009 at 3:43 pmHoodathunktick,
I agree with you. The Constitution is the rock upon which this nation’s government is built. Violation of the constitution by either state or federal government and legislation which attempts to undo our unalienable rights, (as witnessed by the tyranny of the two Bushes), angers me.
July 30th, 2009 at 3:44 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
watchMoron says:
Micheal Moore has a new film out. Maybe to can gather some more lefty lunacy talking points
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Doesnt it suck to be as stupid as you? I dont need Moore or anyone else to tell me what is in the constitution and it is CLEAR on this issue. It is BLACK LETTER that federal law supercedes state constitutions. I mean I am not the least surprised that you were too stupid to know this but why are you so proud of your stupidity that you would broadcast it?
July 30th, 2009 at 3:45 pmA thought for everyone. Centuries ago the Church divided the world between Spain and Portugal. They raided the New World for a massive amount of gold and silver. They embraced the Church’s idea of the Inquisition to enforce their hold.
Where are they today?
July 30th, 2009 at 3:46 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
the whitehouse has been ridiculously caught up in dealing with politics as usual… dem style = reasonableness, with some, too much marriage to and fear of the status quo; unsustainable health care policy….
July 30th, 2009 at 3:47 pm“change we can believe in” is more like “seeing is believing”.
When are we going to get to the starting gate with real change????
Weed out the DINO who are nothing more than obstructionist wannabe’s b/s’ing the people.
TrueLiberty says:I can’t respond to anyone who willingly calls themself toasterhead.
Says a lot about you. Especially your loss.
July 30th, 2009 at 3:48 pmRealityPUNK
You CAN opt out. Take a revolver into the next room and do the right thing. Opt out in the only way that someone as stupid as you can to make the world a better place
July 30th, 2009 at 3:48 pmI am not the least surprised that you were too stupid to know this but why are you so proud of your stupidity that you would broadcast it?
Simple. He doesn’t KNOW that he is stupid! He has imbibed from “Talent on loan from Heaven” – or whatever the Oxycontinman calls himself. How can he be stupid after that?
July 30th, 2009 at 3:49 pmNegative votes and falling faster!
July 30th, 2009 at 3:50 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
The bill that eventually emerges will undoubtably have provisions that leave current health insurers alone. If a person has health insurance now, little will change. The proposed Florida bill will not change anything.
People without health insurance likely will want to enroll in the public option. They will not be “compelled” to do so. Again, no change.
Instead, the real impact of this bill is likely to be on hospitals and medical providers who might then have the option of turning down patients on public insurance. That probably would fail in court though.
Finally, no matter how the thing is eventually worded, the people of Florida are going to pay for the program through federal taxes. What these two are doing is making sure people in Florida pay for something, but obtain no benefit from it.
July 30th, 2009 at 3:51 pmLook at all the liberal States like CA…NY…MI…etc. They have high unemployment…high crime rates…welfare states…tit sucking drain on Federal Tax dollars.
Calif gets back only 77c for every dollar it pays to the Fed tax coffers. Who is getting the rest? That’s right – the states populated by ignorant Southern racist Regressives, like Mississippi, Alabama etc.
July 30th, 2009 at 3:51 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
watchmoron and Realitypunk, are you two for real? How old are you clowns nine? Why do you come here? Nobody give a shit about anything you have to say, because you really don’t say anything.
We all get a few laughs at the stupid shit you say, but outside of that, you two got nothing. If you’re trying to get a legit point across, you fail. If you’re trying to piss us off, you also fail. What a waste of time, you guy’s must have a real shitty life.
July 30th, 2009 at 3:54 pmBlue states are a great suction on most Federal tax dollars anyways!
Reality Check Time!
Red States are the biggest recipients of Federal Tax Dollars.
http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/2004/09/red_states_feed.html
July 30th, 2009 at 3:56 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Where the hell do you get your facts ‘Reality’? Here are the top 10 at the Federal trough. DC not a surprise since it is a Federal Colony, still without voting representation.
1. D.C. ($6.17)
2. North Dakota ($2.03)
3. New Mexico ($1.89)
4. Mississippi ($1.84)
5. Alaska ($1.82)
6. West Virginia ($1.74)
7. Montana ($1.64)
8. Alabama ($1.61)
9. South Dakota ($1.59)
10. Arkansas ($1.53)
Bottom 10:
July 30th, 2009 at 3:57 pm1. New Jersey ($0.62)
2. Connecticut ($0.64)
3. New Hampshire ($0.68)
4. Nevada ($0.73)
5. Illinois ($0.77)
6. Minnesota ($0.77)
7. Colorado ($0.79)
8. Massachusetts ($0.79)
9. California ($0.81)
10. New York ($0.81)
witch 1
I agree. A single state seceeding under current circumstanes will never work. The Russians who were speaking of a break up of the United States, similar to the break up of the Soviet Union, were hypothesizing about the logical separation falling in to five distinct regions.
I don’t see this happening until what the Federal Reserve has done to this country becomes clear to the common man.
July 30th, 2009 at 3:57 pmOops, I forgot the most important part of the GOP’s electoral strategy:
Because nothing will appeal to American voters than a fixation on urine.
July 30th, 2009 at 3:58 pmIt’s just interesting how these Repuggies are getting people to vote against there own self-interest. They really are making ruining America. All this because Obama is the first African-American President.
July 30th, 2009 at 3:59 pmFlorida lawmakers want to ban federal health care?
MEDICARE??
Why do republicans want old people to suffer and die?
July 30th, 2009 at 4:00 pmconservative clown, are you going to be the one that tells all the vets and seniors that they now don’t get their health coverage? I didn’t think so.
July 30th, 2009 at 4:00 pmI’ll call them Senators as well and tell them that this is a bad bad idea.
July 30th, 2009 at 4:01 pmRealityPUNK
You would never know if the truth hurts you Conpuke. You are far too stupid to recognize the truth. You are programmed with BullShite. There is nothing else in your head. You are a moron of monumental proportions. That is why all of your posts end up in the sewer where your trailertrash whore of a wife and your inbred moron spawn can say hi to them
July 30th, 2009 at 4:02 pmI would allow any state to OPT OUT – in toto – of any national health plan. Not picking and chooing, not some in some out. Either agree to the whole enchildad or the state is ON ITS OWN.
A yes vote on such amendment would let the US government terminate any and all federal health subsidies to that state. Perhaps they could vote to seceed and annex themselves to the Great Nation of Texas, which according to Rachel Maddow is flat last in the number of uninsured.
I’m so sick of these dick-weeds. I want the out of the USA. Thy aren’t fit to be citizens of a modern industrialized state.
July 30th, 2009 at 4:02 pmAn unregulated free market (even communism is a form of capitalism, only the government owns all the capital) leads to monopolies and price fixing by unscrupulous individuals. A free market is the only viable way to ensure Liberty and is a Liberal cornerstone
Sorry, but do you even read what you post? An unregulated market leads to monopolies, etc but a free market leads to liberty? Care to share your drugs?
July 30th, 2009 at 4:02 pmThe repiggies in Florida are utterly crazy, and nasty racists to boot. There are so many mega-church holy roller morons and lunatics running around loose in this state. They have abandoned any pretense of civility, and are quite violent when confronted with dissent.
July 30th, 2009 at 4:04 pmconservative guy says:
I live in Arizona and would gladly vote for an amendment to ban federal health care.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Of course you would because that is just how stupid you are. Federal law supercedes state constitutions you full fledged MORON. I live in Arizon too. You should STFU, you embarass everyone from this state. Not even the pondscum here is as stupid as you are.
July 30th, 2009 at 4:04 pmTrueLiberty says:
I agree. A single state seceeding under current circumstanes will never work. The Russians who were speaking of a break up of the United States, similar to the break up of the Soviet Union, were hypothesizing about the logical separation falling in to five distinct regions.
The Russians in question clearly know nothing about the US. The Soviet Union was a conglomeration of cultures, ethnicities, religions and pre-existing countries forcefully welded into one country — never a nation. To equate this to the United States is possibly the product of too much bad vodka.
Or just some libertarian wet dream.
July 30th, 2009 at 4:06 pmconservative guy says:
I live in Arizona and would gladly vote for an amendment to ban federal health care.
=======
I just hope McCain and Kyl will no longer get their federal health care insurance as well that you pay for.
These conservatives are the biggest fools.
July 30th, 2009 at 4:07 pmHoodathunktick says:
Sorry, but do you even read what you post? An unregulated market leads to monopolies, etc but a free market leads to liberty? Care to share your drugs?
Indeed. I can only hope he’s not driving heavy machinery.
July 30th, 2009 at 4:08 pmI never understood the concept of “troll” until I read the work of “Reality Check.” His posts have no connection to the main post and offer nothing in the way of substantive argument.
People, this person is doing that FOR ATTENTION.
Want to make the person angry? Ignore him. Have him come back here only to see that nobody cares. That’s the way to handle a troll.
July 30th, 2009 at 4:10 pmHow hilarious.
A power-grab to prevent a so-called power-grab.
Only Republicans think this way. Oy…
July 30th, 2009 at 4:10 pmAnd these two greedy scumbag GOPers healthcare is supplied by……..
July 30th, 2009 at 4:10 pmFlorida legislators want to deny access of federal health programs to the U.S. citizens that live there?
What if the federal government mandates that medicare cannot be used within the state of Florida?
I’m sure Plakon and Baker are devout compassionless christians, but they’d better spend some time at the
July 30th, 2009 at 4:14 pmChurch of Economics.
I wonder what reality and watchdog have to say. I don’t even have to scan by their lies and bull to get through the thread. Sweet.
I don’t care and I don’t have to read them. Ha.
July 30th, 2009 at 4:15 pmRealityCheck says
July 30th, 2009 at 3:47 pm
Blue states are a great suction on most Federal tax dollars anyways! Everywhere the LiberTurds have a majority…the area turns into blithe!
Look at all the liberal States like CA…NY…MI…etc. They have high unemployment…high crime rates…welfare states…tit sucking drain on Federal Tax dollars.
_____________________________________________________________
Do you have a link to your source showing that California, New York, and Michigan suck up the most federal dollars?
According to one source: http://www.nationalpriorities.org/publications/what_came_to_and_left_your_state_in_2005
…Michigan is number 34 among all the states, with $0.95 received back from the government for every federal tax dollar paid by Michigan taxpayers. California is right behind them at #35, with $0.92 received back for every tax dollar paid. New York is way down toward the bottom of the list at #46, with $0.73 received back for every tax dollar paid. In fact, if you look at the list, you’ll see that most of the states up at the top of the list tend to be red.
My data is actually a couple of years old, but I couldn’t find anything more recent. So if you can provide a current chart from a reliable source showing that California, Michigan, and New York are the big three states draining the federal budget, I’ll concede I’m wrong. But until then, I’m believing these three states are paying more into the federal government than they’re taking out.
July 30th, 2009 at 4:15 pmNews headline….
July 30th, 2009 at 4:17 pmFt. Meyers, Florida Condo Tower Has 1 Tenant, 32 Stories
http://www.news-press.com/article/20090730/NEWS0110/90729077/1002/RSS01
Maybe these two “political leaders” can increase that number of empty condo’s…..either the population of Florida will move or die from no health care access Great goal of the pro life GOPers.
Pssst. Don’t tell anyone, but they have a government subsidized public option.
July 30th, 2009 at 4:17 pm“To preserve the freedom of all residents of the state to provide for their own health care:”…
___________________________________________________________
If they really want to preserve the freedom of people to “provide for their own health care”, shouldn’t they ban ALL health insurance? And then let people fend for themselves?
Think of all the freedom people would have!
July 30th, 2009 at 4:18 pmWatchdog….Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah…..are you “buddies” with Lee Hoarsley? Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah.
July 30th, 2009 at 4:21 pmwatchdog says:
——————————————————————————–
The health care bill in its current form will never pass. Thank God it got moved back to October. The longer Republicans urinate in the public’s hands the less likely it is to pass.
July 30th, 2009 at 4:22 pmTrueLiberty says:
I can’t respond to anyone who willingly calls themself toasterhead.
July 30th, 2009 at 3:45 pm
_______________
Fair enough. I can’t respond to anyone who willingly exposes himself to playgrounds full of children while anally raping ferrets, so I suppose we’re even.
BTW, if you don’t respond to this, it will serve as proof that my accusation is true. Your choice.
July 30th, 2009 at 4:22 pmseems all watchdog has left to do is stand around and watch the dems and hope they fail.
His side offered no solutions and allowed the mess we are in but they don’t want anyone making it work better.
How would you define such a person? Defeatist?
July 30th, 2009 at 4:24 pmHow about Traitor?
July 30th, 2009 at 4:26 pmThe GOP is going to pull all stops by using state legislatures and Governors to sabotage the Dems. This kind of legislation will become all to common in the Red States.
July 30th, 2009 at 4:27 pmCan a dog with worms answer a legitimate question?
When health care fails as you predict and we all know that 80% of Americans want this reform, who do you think they will blame?
Answer: you and the right wingers who paid to have it defeated against the will of the American people.
July 30th, 2009 at 4:29 pmLet the redstates ban our help. I’m tired of subsidizing the ingrates. Maybe the fools will wake up when they realize how their beloved wingnut leaders have betrayed them. Then they can vote the bastards out of office and join us.
July 30th, 2009 at 4:31 pmwatchdog says: The health care bill in its current form will never pass. Thank God it got moved back to October. The longer Republicans urinate in the public’s hands the less likely it is to pass.
Ah yes, may the Republicans achieve their goal. Trillions for war, squat for America.
Why is it that the Captain Rah-Rah Republicans, who stand for America and its ability to do anything, run like little puppies over the idea that America can take care of its own citizens? Blow up a foreign country…can do. Destabilize a region…got it covered. Provide for the benefit of American people…costs too much, the commies want it, it will kill old people. Basically, Americans don’t matter and our government is incompetent.
But they can sign lots of checks for war.
July 30th, 2009 at 4:31 pmTrue liberty, I hate to hear about people like you. Why would you expose yourself to children while anally raping ferrets?
My name is Fred and I approve this message.
July 30th, 2009 at 4:32 pmWhy is it that America can find money to fund invasions and wars and bailouts for a handful of companies and is suddenly broke when it comes to its citizens?
July 30th, 2009 at 4:35 pmThis is the whole point these days isn’t it. When they were spending money on war like it was water many of us were saying that when the time comes to spend on Americans we do not want to hear you say you can’t come up with the money.
They did it repeatedly and against all economic sense when they were in power and now they will have to cough it up.
Don’t tell us you don’t have the money.
July 30th, 2009 at 4:35 pmI wonder what these right-wingers think about the US subsidized Iraq National Public Health Care System?
Oh yeah, they don’t think about it at all.
July 30th, 2009 at 4:36 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
This comment has been voted down. Click to read.
I would think such a thing would would prohibit theses states from different forms of Federal dollars. By all means, be my guest!
July 30th, 2009 at 4:39 pmshoeless says:I wonder what these right-wingers think about the US subsidized Iraq National Public Health Care System?
But these are pitiful people who can’t afford to pay the insurance companies. We have hammered them into the Stone Age. They have only managed to get the US back to about 300 BC.
Good news is they are still trying. When we reach the Stone age we might get something.
July 30th, 2009 at 4:40 pmGood idea. Florida is getting too crowded. If that happens, you will be able to get beachfront property real cheap.
July 30th, 2009 at 4:41 pm54thursday says:
Seems like competition to me. If you don’t want universal healthcare, move to Florida. If you do, then don’t. What is wrong with that?
July 30th, 2009 at 4:36 pm
______________
And what if you’re in Florida and are denied private health insurance due to a preexisting condition? It’s not really “competition” when you have to choose between dying or moving to another state.
July 30th, 2009 at 4:41 pmUh guys, federal law has precedence over state in most cases. It would be easy to argue that healthcare is interstate commerce and therefore an area explicitly given to the feds.
Also remember SC. Sanford got to beat his chest and a schoolgirl sued him to accept the funds. He was so badly beaten by this that he went to Argentena to steady his nerves.
July 30th, 2009 at 4:41 pmYou mean like the competition that is keeping health care costs competitive right now? that kind of competition?
July 30th, 2009 at 4:42 pmNow, I didn’t read any more than what was quoted above, but I fail to see how it will ban or prevent anybody from taking part in the federal program.
Not forcing someone to take something is not the same as preventing them from taking it.
Maybe I’m missing something here.
July 30th, 2009 at 4:42 pmAnd what if you’re in Florida and are denied private health insurance due to a preexisting condition?
That would bring the Undertaker group into the game.
July 30th, 2009 at 4:43 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
bsober says:
I would think such a thing would would prohibit theses states from different forms of Federal dollars. By all means, be my guest!
July 30th, 2009 at 4:39 pm
____________
Totally. Not just dollars, but all Federal services. I’m sure NOAA could save a bundle if they didn’t have to monitor hurricanes heading toward Florida. They’d no longer need their interstate highways maintained, no longer need their canals maintained, no longer need their mail delivered. And NASA can move to South Carolina – I’m sure they’d love the influx of engineers and technology.
July 30th, 2009 at 4:46 pmGaryB says:
Now, I didn’t read any more than what was quoted above, but I fail to see how it will ban or prevent anybody from taking part in the federal program.
Not forcing someone to take something is not the same as preventing them from taking it.
Maybe I’m missing something here.
So then what is the problem again??
July 30th, 2009 at 4:47 pm54thursday says:
At least you have a choice. Unlike the octogenarian who needs a new hip under Obama’s plan. “No we need to give that hip to someone who produces revenue for the country, not someone who drains it. Here is your rascal scooter… enjoy!”
How does that Kool-Aid taste, anyway? Don’t you mean that the octogenarian would be forced to commit suicide under Obama’s plan? Isn’t the latest moronic claim from the GOP?
July 30th, 2009 at 4:49 pmAnd how is a scooter not an improvement over nothing? You act as if everyone had insurance that covers a hip replacement and that is your lie.
July 30th, 2009 at 4:49 pmchiroptera toasterhead says:
bsober says:
I would think such a thing would would prohibit theses states from different forms of Federal dollars. By all means, be my guest!
July 30th, 2009 at 4:39 pm
____________
Totally. Not just dollars, but all Federal services. I’m sure NOAA could save a bundle if they didn’t have to monitor hurricanes heading toward Florida. They’d no longer need their interstate highways maintained, no longer need their canals maintained, no longer need their mail delivered. And NASA can move to South Carolina – I’m sure they’d love the influx of engineers and technology.
OK so then Floridians would not have to pay Federal Taxes of any kind then. Sign me up!
July 30th, 2009 at 4:49 pm54thursday says:
At least you have a choice. Unlike the octogenarian who needs a new hip under Obama’s plan. “No we need to give that hip to someone who produces revenue for the country, not someone who drains it. Here is your rascal scooter… enjoy!”
July 30th, 2009 at 4:45 pm
____________
And I’m sure you have a reputable source for that…
July 30th, 2009 at 4:49 pmPlease explain to me who really wants to kill old people?
July 30th, 2009 at 4:50 pmMapleStreet says:
Uh guys, federal law has precedence over state in most cases. It would be easy to argue that healthcare is interstate commerce and therefore an area explicitly given to the feds.
One would think that but it’s not always true. The insurance industry makes it’s own rules to avoid any possible loss. Just try and get property insurance in low-lying areas of Louisiana or Mississippi or health insurance after having a herniated disk.
July 30th, 2009 at 4:51 pmgummble-bee-itch says:
54thursday says:
At least you have a choice. Unlike the octogenarian who needs a new hip under Obama’s plan. “No we need to give that hip to someone who produces revenue for the country, not someone who drains it. Here is your rascal scooter… enjoy!”
How does that Kool-Aid taste, anyway? Don’t you mean that the octogenarian would be forced to commit suicide under Obama’s plan? Isn’t the latest moronic claim from the GOP?
No that would be saved for the Nonogenarians.
July 30th, 2009 at 4:51 pmFred says:
54thursday says:
Here is your rascal scooter… enjoy!”
And how is a scooter not an improvement over nothing? You act as if everyone had insurance that covers a hip replacement and that is your lie.
And you act as if no one does, and that is yours.
July 30th, 2009 at 4:52 pmchiroptera toasterhead says:
54thursday says:
At least you have a choice. Unlike the octogenarian who needs a new hip under Obama’s plan. “No we need to give that hip to someone who produces revenue for the country, not someone who drains it. Here is your rascal scooter… enjoy!”
July 30th, 2009 at 4:45 pm
____________
And I’m sure you have a reputable source for that…
I do it is called common sense. Rationing is going on today although it is based monetarily instead of via gov fiat.
July 30th, 2009 at 4:54 pmTL, you do know that John Galt and Atlas Shrugged were a work of fiction, right? You realize the 2 sentences above contradict one another, right? How’d that free market work for ya last fall, eh?
July 30th, 2009 at 4:54 pm54thursday says:
Seems like competition to me. If you don’t want universal healthcare, move to Florida. If you do, then don’t. What is wrong with that?
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
How about it doesnt work that way? Florida cannot overrule Federal law with their constitution.
July 30th, 2009 at 4:55 pmpete says:
MapleStreet says:
Uh guys, federal law has precedence over state in most cases. It would be easy to argue that healthcare is interstate commerce and therefore an area explicitly given to the feds.
One would think that but it’s not always true. The insurance industry makes it’s own rules to avoid any possible loss. Just try and get property insurance in low-lying areas of Louisiana or Mississippi or health insurance after having a herniated disk.
Of course the Fed’s will pull out the BS interstate commerce clause to regulate. They did with farmers growing wheat for their own consumption. They will always find a way. They are sneaky bast*rds.
July 30th, 2009 at 4:56 pmSo, you’re ok with just “some” people having health care and you’re ok with walking by me as I crawl along the pavement because I don’t have it? That about it?
July 30th, 2009 at 4:56 pm54thursday says: 36
Now you are being a jerk. There is no reason an old person would NOT get a hip replacement under a national healthcare system. If it werent for Medicare a poor octagenarian WOULD NEVER get one now, in fact a poor 40 year old that needed one would NEVER get one in the current system unless they had insurance or could pay for it.
July 30th, 2009 at 4:57 pmWhy…it’s the free market where we are free to choose…to not have a public option or single payer healthcare…we are free to choose…to die…according to these yahoos…
:|
July 30th, 2009 at 4:57 pmAnd the case was Wckard vs Filburn by the way.
http://www.answers.com/topic/wickard-v-filburn
July 30th, 2009 at 4:58 pm54thursday says:
No it ISNT common sense it is YOU pulling things out of your A$$ and pretending it is a valid argument. IT isnt.
July 30th, 2009 at 4:59 pmOh and United Healthcare has never denied a claim due to pre-existing condition or that it is ‘elective’ surgery? Give me a break. Health Care should not be a ‘for profit’ enterprise with CEO’s raking in $200 million. Private, For Profit, Insurance companies have a conflict of interest and they’re dedication is to themselves, and their shareholders, not the people they are insuring.
July 30th, 2009 at 5:00 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Not to side with the trolls, and agreeing that the intent of the Florida bill likely was to bar the impact of the federal bill, I do have a problem with the following from the initial article:
In fact, a reading of the language of the bill does not support that claim. The bill as proposed does not prevent anyone from enrolling. As written, it only serves to allow them to opt out.
July 30th, 2009 at 5:01 pm54thursday says:
The Feds dont NEED to pull out any commerce clause. Federal laws supercede state constitutions. It’s. THAT. SIMPLE.
July 30th, 2009 at 5:02 pm54thursday, I got to tell ya. People like you don’t get invited to decent people’s homes for dinner. You don’t have any real friends and you are a scorpion who would rather die yourself rather than show compassion for anyone.
You are a bitter and evil person who should’t be encouraged. You are wrong on so many levels that I lost count and you still think you have a right to tell the rest of us how things should be. Be gone gnat.
July 30th, 2009 at 5:02 pm54thursday says:
My point is you made a dishonest argument. There is NO reason to think old people will not get necessary surgeries for their quality of life. You just PRETEND that they will to make an argument when NO ONE is saying any such thing
July 30th, 2009 at 5:03 pmEugeneDebs says:
54thursday says:
Seems like competition to me. If you don’t want universal healthcare, move to Florida. If you do, then don’t. What is wrong with that?
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
How about it doesnt work that way? Florida cannot overrule Federal law with their constitution.
We will just have to wait and see. And why do you care? Shouldn’t people have a choice?
July 30th, 2009 at 5:03 pmWhich they would already have. What you are saying is that this whole idea is just redundant and foolish.
July 30th, 2009 at 5:04 pm54thursday says:
We will just have to wait and see. And why do you care? Shouldn’t people have a choice?
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
First there is no seeing. That is black letter IN the Constitution. Second they ALREADY have a choice. They are putting out a public OPTION not making private insurance illegal.
July 30th, 2009 at 5:06 pmtest?
July 30th, 2009 at 5:08 pmEugeneDebs says:
54thursday says:
My point is you made a dishonest argument. There is NO reason to think old people will not get necessary surgeries for their quality of life. You just PRETEND that they will to make an argument when NO ONE is saying any such thing
When demand outstrips supply their is rationing. It is plain and simple. It is going on today it will go on tomorrow and next week. If you do not believe that, then there is nothing I can say to help you. If you take away monetary rationing you have to replace it with another kind of rationing or increase supply. I am not sure that you are going to be able to increase the amount of healthcare available to meet the total demand once you initiate Universal Healthcare. If you think that we will be able to meet that demand then so be it, but I believe that you are not being honest with yourself.
July 30th, 2009 at 5:10 pm[...]
Unfortunately, Florida is not the only state considering such radical measures. …
… whodduthunkit, that one black man could have so much power
and influence…
it’s crazier than i ever imagined it would be…
July 30th, 2009 at 5:10 pmStupid troll.
There is no such thing as “Obama’s plan”. There are three drafts in three different committees and none of them were written by President Obama. In fact, they are still being written.
Please refrain from comment when you can’t even identify what you are commenting on. Thanks.
July 30th, 2009 at 5:11 pm54thursday says:
OK so then Floridians would not have to pay Federal Taxes of any kind then. Sign me up!
Be careful what you wish for, after the Fed money dried up, Florida would be running on Disney money alone…
July 30th, 2009 at 5:11 pmJust a couple of points:
Hoodathunkick is actually right–because an unregulated market is not a free market. As the right is so fond of saying, freedom isn’t free. It has to be maintained. A free market requires equality of access, availability of information, and a system of justice to function–otherwise the powerful can crowd better products out, lie with impunity, and violations of free competition will go unpunished. You get exactly thee opposite of a free market if you refuse to regulate it.
The right uniformly interprets ‘free-market’ to mean ‘big companies get to do whatever they want, and they confuse it with Social Darwinism.
2) The Tenth Amendment says
That’s the part that states’ rightists always ignore.
In this case, these jokers think that They can deprive people of the right to enroll in a program. The right doesn’t reside with them, because they’re state legislators.
3) Thee’s also the Interstate commerce clause, and applies pretty clearly here. This law would force somebody who moved to Florida to give up their health insurance, if it were the public option. It would prevent companies in other states from doing business in Florida. It’d never survive.
4) Yes, Obama’s ratings are slipping, but these mouth breathers think that the only possibility that leaves is that the Right gains what Obama loses, since they’re ‘the other side’.
It never even occurs to them that people might be losing confidence with Obama because he might weasel out on providing public health care. It couldn’t possibly be that Obama is losing support from the left. Impossible! He’s the Antichrist! The Messiah of the Left!
Oh no he isn’t.
I like Obama. He’s a homey from the old hood. (Hyde Park, the University of Chicago.) I know people who know him well. He might even collect the comics I wrote.
July 30th, 2009 at 5:12 pmBut if he compromises his way out of health care reform, he’s lost my ‘approve’ vote. It hardly means I’m going to support Newt Gingrich, though. Just the opposite.
54thursday@136
EugeneDeb@152
Medicare paid for my 87 year old mom’s hip replacement, no questions asked.
July 30th, 2009 at 5:13 pmHow would you all feel about a hospital that only took private health insurance or payments by individuals and took no Gov $ and accepted no Universal Healthcare Patients. Would that be ok with you?
July 30th, 2009 at 5:16 pmThere is something amazingly cowardly about voting down a post (for reasons other than being profane or irrelevant) while not responding to it.
Would whomever voted down on my 5:01 post have the balls to point out the reasons?
July 30th, 2009 at 5:16 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
This comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Medicare has covered my preexisting conditions without question. And I’ve never even seen a bill aside from a minimal co-pay. I seldom needed health care when I was insured by a private company but it was a nightmare each time and, eventually, I just couldn’t get covered. From where I sit “socialized medicine” is pretty damn good.
July 30th, 2009 at 5:19 pm54thursday says:
When demand outstrips supply their is rationing. It is plain and simple. It is going on today it will go on tomorrow and next week.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
It is going on today because private insurers are protecting their PROFITS and obscene salaries for their CEOS not to mention their 30% overhead. Take those away or even cut into them and it expands the market.
If you do not believe that, then there is nothing I can say to help you.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
You dont NEED to help me I understand this issue quite well and you can stuff your condescension where the sun never shines. Really you THINK you are all that but frankly you just arent that bright.
If you take away monetary rationing you have to replace it with another kind of rationing or increase supply. I am not sure that you are going to be able to increase the amount of healthcare available to meet the total demand once you initiate Universal Healthcare.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Sure you can. You can even increase efficiency while doing so. The Gov can do things like put bright but poor kids through the best medical schools like Johns Hopkins and in return have them work IN the system at reduced specialist rates for a certain amount of time.
If you think that we will be able to meet that demand then so be it, but I believe that you are not being honest with yourself.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
I KNOW what the problems are. They are challenges. We put a man on the moon when no one thought it possible I think we can do as well as France, Finnland and Japan in providing healthcare. I also know the problems that we are NOW facing like 18,000 Americans per year DYING from lack of access to healthcare also by NOT having such access they DONT get diagnosed early so instead of paying a few hundred to a few thousand to take care of their problems we end up eating a few hundred thousand for the last few months of their life in critical care. Half of all bankrupcies are medical related and more than half of those people HAD healthcare when thier medical problems began.
July 30th, 2009 at 5:20 pmThe holy rollers have taken over the state government in Florida. There is so much flag-waving and public piety that it’s suffocating.
The governor is a deeply closeted homophobe, afraid of any news of his past sexual liaisons with men. Virtually all the office space within two miles of the state capitol building is rented by right-wing lobbying firms.
The developers get a green light from the state legislature on everything. There are enough hicks and imbeciles in the state to justify trotting out the God, gays and guns stuff anytime a controversial issue is at stake.
By the way, Lou Dobbs is a moron.
July 30th, 2009 at 5:20 pm54thursday@166
Rationing is “going on” worse with private insurance carriers.
July 30th, 2009 at 5:21 pmOnce you develop any condition that requires management, the exclusion notices start rolling in and the premiums hit the roof!
conservative guy says
July 30th, 2009 at 3:56 pm
I live in Arizona and would gladly vote for an amendment to ban federal health care.
___________________________________________________________
All federal health care? You would ban Medicare, Medicaid, and SCHIP? You would ban the medical portion of the VA?
Good luck getting support for that.
July 30th, 2009 at 5:21 pmIf you take away monetary rationing you have to replace it with another kind of rationing or increase supply.
Holy Crap!
I agree with this!
I just wonder how you can support monetary rationing and argue against need based rationing. Shouldn’t doctors treat those most in need first instead of treating those most able (or willing) to pay?
I bet we could stand to lose a few plastic surgeons, don’t you agree?
I bet if we paid Doctors the same amount to treat the sickest as we did to treat the richest you’d see more Doctors who were not only willing but actully wanted to work in both rural areas and inner-cities, don’t you agree?
July 30th, 2009 at 5:22 pm54thursday says:
How would you all feel about a hospital that only took private health insurance or payments by individuals and took no Gov $ and accepted no Universal Healthcare Patients. Would that be ok with you?
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
That would be OK with me. Even if we went to a single payer that would still be ok with me. MOST countries with national healthcare systems also have small paralell private systems.
July 30th, 2009 at 5:23 pmTrueLiberty, the Soviet Union collapsed under economic and social pressures resulting from their trying to maintain the illusion that Leninism was a viable strategy.
At present, the US is laboring to maintain that unregulated capitalism is also viable. The big question is…can you eat money?
TrueLiberty is correct in his assertion. The US dollar is being replaced as the base currency.
Technally the US is bankrupt.
Unregulated capitalism has failed and will take down all the overseas military bases hence the same result as the old Silviot Union.
The man behind the curtain in the US is nervious, very Nervious.
Do you wash the money before you eat it????
July 30th, 2009 at 5:24 pmBe very aware, America. Medicare has killed millions in the past 44 years. Medicaid is its greedy, deadly little brother. Your government has been working for 44 years in its evilness. Your parents and grandparents have been fed into the protein machine, without choice!
Be very afraid, America! Your government has worked for almost 100 years to turn our country into a totalitarian state where you have no choice. No freedom! Don’t drive on any roads because they are evil. Don’t flush your toilet! Don’t turn on your tap!
If your house begins to burn, thank God because he caused it to happen but don’t call the Fire Department!
If you collapse from a heart attack, pray for your deliverance because the EMT’s who might respond are minions of the devil who just might want to save your pathetic life.
Don’t send your children to school because they might get the idea that the Earth is older than 5,000 years.
And don’t ever think that the neighbor next to you who might offer a helping hand in a time of crisis or unrest is anything more than a government agent.
July 30th, 2009 at 5:25 pmEugeneDebs says:
54thursday says:
When demand outstrips supply their is rationing. It is plain and simple. It is going on today it will go on tomorrow and next week.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
It is going on today because private insurers are protecting their PROFITS and obscene salaries for their CEOS not to mention their 30% overhead. Take those away or even cut into them and it expands the market.
I am glad that you agree that rationing is going on today. Thank you for conceding the point.
If you do not believe that, then there is nothing I can say to help you.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
You dont NEED to help me I understand this issue quite well and you can stuff your condescension where the sun never shines. Really you THINK you are all that but frankly you just arent that bright.
Sure I am
If you take away monetary rationing you have to replace it with another kind of rationing or increase supply. I am not sure that you are going to be able to increase the amount of healthcare available to meet the total demand once you initiate Universal Healthcare.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Sure you can. You can even increase efficiency while doing so. The Gov can do things like put bright but poor kids through the best medical schools like Johns Hopkins and in return have them work IN the system at reduced specialist rates for a certain amount of time.
Assuming that your plan would work, which I don’t think that it would, although it does sound warm and fuzzy, how long would it take to implement and when would the first doctors be rolling out of the schools? And how do you account for meeting demand in the meantime?
If you think that we will be able to meet that demand then so be it, but I believe that you are not being honest with yourself.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
I KNOW what the problems are. They are challenges. We put a man on the moon when no one thought it possible I think we can do as well as France, Finnland and Japan in providing healthcare. I also know the problems that we are NOW facing like 18,000 Americans per year DYING from lack of access to healthcare also by NOT having such access they DONT get diagnosed early so instead of paying a few hundred to a few thousand to take care of their problems we end up eating a few hundred thousand for the last few months of their life in critical care. Half of all bankrupcies are medical related and more than half of those people HAD healthcare when thier medical problems began.
I agree that no american citizen should suffer or die because they can not afford healthcare. I do not agree that a Gov takeover of the system is the way to go. You and I differ on how competent our gov is.
July 30th, 2009 at 5:29 pmSkeeter1@173
It may be troll droppings.
July 30th, 2009 at 5:30 pmI’ve been voted down all day.
Maybe I’ve been watching too many Fox news clips and have become really offensive.
You got that right, okie dokie. If I could get private coverage I could un-retire. But, if I went back to work, I would be paying about $2,000 a month for medication and health management.
July 30th, 2009 at 5:30 pmokie dokie says:
54thursday@166
Rationing is “going on” worse with private insurance carriers.
Once you develop any condition that requires management, the exclusion notices start rolling in and the premiums hit the roof!
Worse than what?
July 30th, 2009 at 5:30 pmBTW, stupid troll, I damn well expect my elected government to regulate things. They’ve done precious little of it in the last 30-40 years and it’s time to make up for lost time. That’s why we stopped electing incompetent boobs in the last two major elections.
July 30th, 2009 at 5:34 pmbelaccifer lacca says:
If you take away monetary rationing you have to replace it with another kind of rationing or increase supply.
Holy Crap!
I agree with this!
I just wonder how you can support monetary rationing and argue against need based rationing. Shouldn’t doctors treat those most in need first instead of treating those most able (or willing) to pay?
I bet we could stand to lose a few plastic surgeons, don’t you agree?
I bet if we paid Doctors the same amount to treat the sickest as we did to treat the richest you’d see more Doctors who were not only willing but actully wanted to work in both rural areas and inner-cities, don’t you agree?
If all we were talking about is helping American citizens who can not afford the healthcare they need then we would have an area within which we could find some common ground. I would even be willing to say that the # that need it and can’t afford it is 47 million, which I truly don’t agree with. But that is not what is being discussed. It is a much broader plan.
July 30th, 2009 at 5:35 pmOopsie. Just today I learned that psychiatric counseling in my area has sort of jumped from 2-3 weeks to 2-3 months while the provider laid off 4 support people.
Evidently free market capitalism hasn’t shaken hands with supply and demand recently.
July 30th, 2009 at 5:36 pmEugeneDebs says:
54thursday says:
How would you all feel about a hospital that only took private health insurance or payments by individuals and took no Gov $ and accepted no Universal Healthcare Patients. Would that be ok with you?
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
That would be OK with me. Even if we went to a single payer that would still be ok with me. MOST countries with national healthcare systems also have small paralell private systems.
Then I could agree with that. But you know what would happen. This would be used as an issue in the wealth envy debate. Then you would have the gov demand that the private hospital must take Universal HC Patients. Maybe not on day one but as sure as Sh*t it would happen.
July 30th, 2009 at 5:37 pm54thursday:
Worse than what you claim occurs in government run programs.
July 30th, 2009 at 5:37 pmDog forbid a private hospital might be asked to take overflow. Health care really needs to be tied to credit cards and mortgages or the world will end.
July 30th, 2009 at 5:41 pm54thursday says:
I am glad that you agree that rationing is going on today. Thank you for conceding the point.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>
No you arent.
Assuming that your plan would work, which I don’t think that it would, although it does sound warm and fuzzy, how long would it take to implement and when would the first doctors be rolling out of the schools? And how do you account for meeting demand in the meantime
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Of COURSE it would work. Canada does it right now. Yeah, nothing worth doing comes without some cost. Saving 18,000 lives a year and cutting bankrupcies in half is worth some cost and is an investment that can have a good benifit.
I agree that no american citizen should suffer or die because they can not afford healthcare. I do not agree that a Gov takeover of the system is the way to go. You and I differ on how competent our gov is.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
So it was competent enough to go to the moon. Create rural electrification and create the most effective military in the history of the world but cant do healthcare as well as France, Finnland and Japan? I always wonder about conservatives that claim to love our country but HATE our government.
July 30th, 2009 at 5:42 pmThen you would have the gov demand that the private hospital must take Universal HC Patients. Maybe not on day one but as sure as Sh*t it would happen.
Uhh, really? Isn’t it the right that’s demanding that Universal Education students get vouchers to go to private schools?
July 30th, 2009 at 5:45 pmEven if the gov does not ration first had, they will secondarily ration using time and lack of innovation. Ask yourself why Cancer survival rates are higher in the US than in Canada or Europe.
http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/secondhandsmoke/2009/07/21/most-cancer-survival-rates-in-usa-better-than-europe-and-canada/
This is a blog but it does cite specific sources.
July 30th, 2009 at 5:46 pmHoodathunktick,
I inquired about a psychologist (for help dealing with the stress of my physical health issues and impending retirement) in my home town, of 25,000 souls and three hospitals in addition to being the county seat and a center for the surrounding rural area, about six years ago. At that time there was ONE psychologist in town and she had accepted no new patients for over a year. She took in a partner who lasted about six months.
July 30th, 2009 at 5:47 pmFred,
I have no clue what the “idea” is.
The only parties that it seems to impact are the actual health care providers, who under the bill, could reject Medicare/Medicaid patients just as now they can decide to “reject” Blue Cross patients.
It was my understanding that federal law imposed restrictions on providers rejecting these patients, but I may be mistaken.
As such, I don’t see the bill as written having any impact at all.
That being said, I’m curious about how much in campaign contribs these guys got from health care providers and private insures.
July 30th, 2009 at 5:47 pmbelaccifer lacca says:
Then you would have the gov demand that the private hospital must take Universal HC Patients. Maybe not on day one but as sure as Sh*t it would happen.
Uhh, really? Isn’t it the right that’s demanding that Universal Education students get vouchers to go to private schools?
Since we are forced to pay for public schools yes. Just give me my money back and I will pay for the Private school myself.
July 30th, 2009 at 5:47 pmPeople, the health insurance industry is willing to spend $1.4 million dollars a day to insure that you have no say. They are buying your representatives in Congress to insure they have more of a say in your life than you do.
That money comes out of your premiums, money you are paying them to cover your medical expenses. Why do they have that kind of money? A good guess is because they aren’t covering you. They are covering their own very well paid butts.
Quit listening to the lies and listen to what you hear every day.
July 30th, 2009 at 5:48 pmIf nothing else, Eugene, welcome back to the fight.
July 30th, 2009 at 5:50 pmSince we are forced to pay for public schools yes. Just give me my money back and I will pay for the Private school myself.
Give me my money back and I will pay for my military myself!
July 30th, 2009 at 5:53 pmI want a ‘nation building’ voucher. Guess what? I’m not sending my share to Iraq.
A silly thought but where would we be today if states had a voice in the trillions of dollars spent in Iraq?
July 30th, 2009 at 5:56 pmNo one doubts the quality of our doctors or technology, stupid troll. That’s where the enviable rate for most cancers comes from. And, despite your spoon-fed talking points, major medial will see the smallest change aside from those who can pay nothing on their bills under the current system.
The place we have problems that can be addressed are denials of service, preventive care, pre-natal care, check ups and screening, and chronic ailments that limit productivity. And that doesn’t even touch the benefits of removing the burden and control from private enterprise.
July 30th, 2009 at 5:58 pmbelaccifer lacca says:
Since we are forced to pay for public schools yes. Just give me my money back and I will pay for the Private school myself.
Give me my money back and I will pay for my military myself!
I want a ‘nation building’ voucher. Guess what? I’m not sending my share to Iraq.
By living in this country you are protected by the US Military. There is no way for you to live here and not be protected from foreign enemies. If there was I would be happy to let you go for it. We do however have the ability to allow private industry or our own families educate our children instead of gov. But we are not allowed to make that choice with our dollars. We have to pay for both, as I do.
July 30th, 2009 at 5:58 pmpete says:
No one doubts the quality of our doctors or technology, stupid troll. That’s where the enviable rate for most cancers comes from. And, despite your spoon-fed talking points, major medial will see the smallest change aside from those who can pay nothing on their bills under the current system.
The place we have problems that can be addressed are denials of service, preventive care, pre-natal care, check ups and screening, and chronic ailments that limit productivity. And that doesn’t even touch the benefits of removing the burden and control from private enterprise.
Since you do not listen to what I have to say and just continue to make false arguments then I am now ignoring you.
July 30th, 2009 at 6:00 pm54thursady, if you choose to send your children into the public system, quit b*itching. The same system that provides military support provides public education.
You want something different, follow your masters and make more money. And quit depending on a government supported military to protect your whimpy but.
Our strength comes from unity. Personally, I think your needy butt falls in a different category.
July 30th, 2009 at 6:04 pmBy living in this country you are protected by the US Military. There is no way for you to live here and not be protected from foreign enemies.
Exactly.
And there’s no way for you to live here and not benefit from our public education system, even indirectly. That’s why we fund it through public dollars.
It is a collective service the benefits of which are hard to quantify exactly but nevertheless benefit us all…
For me to argue that I am not in this with the rest of you is stupid and short-sighted. As is your education plan. And your health care plan.
July 30th, 2009 at 6:05 pmWhy can’t trolls hit and run with their stupid instead of sticking around and gushing stupid?
BTW — the pig showed up with his union rep and his lawyer.
July 30th, 2009 at 6:13 pmThe strangest thing about all this is that the very people who are complaining about socialism have no idea that if they win with this, they lose.
They fought Medicare and it has been a staple of US society. They complain about government control yet accept police, fire, road, water, elderly health, and all of the little things that come from the statement in the Constitution about providing for the general welfare.
They want to scream rights, independence and dog knows what else but while they accept the benefits this ’socialist’ society has given them, they whine.
All of you freeper wannabes, you have the ability to screech your insanity because there is 200+ years of work behind you.
July 30th, 2009 at 6:16 pmIt is pointless to try to have a discussion with 54wingnut. He is part of the fascist theocratic Republican Party, and is not interested in the well being of America or Americans.
I tried to engage him yesterday, and all I got was talking points and treason. He needs a nice small room in Gitmo with the rest of his wingnut buddies.
July 30th, 2009 at 6:41 pmI interpret this to mean it is up to the citizen and that they can refuse the individual mandate to purchase health insurance.
I don’t generally defend anything a Republican does, but considering single payer was never on the table and the public option is dead, I don’t want to be forced to purchase for-profit health insurance. I see nothing wrong with this and hope my state does the same.
July 30th, 2009 at 6:51 pmI think that this is a misread of that bill. While it’s a bullsh!t bill that undercuts health care reform, what it does is say that nobody can MAKE people, by law or rule, sign up for health care insurance which is exactly what’s being discussed in the current legislation. I’ve read the bill and don’t find anything that prevents people from doing so if they choose to; it just stops any efforts to make it mandatory.
July 30th, 2009 at 7:02 pm54thursday says:
They WOULD have to take emergency patients but that is another thing. The WEALTH envy is all on YOUR side. You guys are just sure if you kiss enough rich butt and carry enough of their water they will give you some crumbs off the table.
July 30th, 2009 at 7:11 pm54thursday says:
Cancer survival rates? Partly because of the heavy gov subsidy to fight cancer from the NCI. Ever hear of Taxol? Important cancer drug. COMPLETELY discoverd AND reasearched by TAX DOLLARS then given away to Bristol Squibb Meyers. Partly because that IS what this for profit system does well the VERY expensive critical care. Of course that doesnt much help poor people who get cancer and arent insured. They cant afford the treatment THEY DIE.
July 30th, 2009 at 7:14 pm54thursday says:
Since we are forced to pay for public schools yes. Just give me my money back and I will pay for the Private school myself.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Typical selfish con. EVERYONE benifits from public education. Do you want truck drivers that cant read? Cashiers that cant make change? The benefits to business that THEY dont have to provide all the education for their employees alone is a huge benifit to EVERYONE since it helps our economy so much but like a typical conservative you want a free lunch you want the benifit and snivel embarassingly that you have to pay the bill.
July 30th, 2009 at 7:17 pmHoodathunktick says:
If nothing else, Eugene, welcome back to the fight.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Thanks, I appreciate that.
July 30th, 2009 at 7:18 pm54thursday says:
THAT is absolute BUNK. The military wasnt protecting us from ANYTHING in Iraq. In fact we have not been under threat of foriegn invasion since WW2 at LEAST and arguably since the war of 1812. So NO. That is a BS argument about Iraq OR Vietnam. Also If YOU dont have to pay for schools, which you ABSOLUTLY DO BENIFIT FROM even if you send YOUR kid to a private school, then I shouldnt have to pay for nuclear weapons or corporate wellfare.
July 30th, 2009 at 7:22 pmThey’re Constitutional morons (oh, right, they’re Republicans so that goes without saying….)
States cannot pre-empt valid federal law; law that is within the federal power to pass (and if such a federal law was constitutionally infirm, no state law would be necessary; the federal law would be null and void). They can’t “over-rule” it. This is stoopidity squared … but it will play with the rubes.
Cheers,
July 30th, 2009 at 7:48 pmPersonally, I have a problem with some of the scuttlebutt I hear coming out of Washington D.C. concerning the so-called health care reform measures being discussed.
In particular, the statements by Obama who says, “If you like the health care coverage you now have, we’re not going to make you do anything.”
Implied in that statement is its converse: “If you don’t have any health care insurance coverage at the present time, YOU WILL BE REQUIRED TO OBTAIN COVERAGE OF SOME TYPE.”
This goes along with the rumors of whatever legislation does finally emerge to include provisions for Citizens to carry mandated coverage or face monetary penalties for not doing so. This is the type of plan Massachussets put into effect on a Statewide basis. It’s also akin to legislating that every person in the U.S. would have to contribute funds to the existing health insurance fraud scam that is being operated in this nation. It would be a bigger give away to a special interest group than Medicare Part D was to the pharmaceutical industry.
On its surface, the language in the Florida legislation would appear to exempt Floridians from being forced into some national health insurance mandate they can’t afford and that would provide no real coverage.
The American People are having their pockets picked empty right now. Corporate Welfare abounds, while “privitization” turns over to private, for-profit organizations and individuals the infrastructure built with tax dollars paid into the Public Treasury by the Individual Taxpayer with the belief those things were intended for the benefit of all, equally.
It’s time to throw the notion of de-regulation and privitization out the window as the failures they were.
What we need is a solid, single-payer health care system that includes strong cost-containment features and strong, non-partisan government regulation.
Vote No on keeping the Healthcare Industry welfare queens in business.
July 30th, 2009 at 7:58 pmONLY IN AMERICA, I swear….
these guys are simply unbelievable..
featured comment is exactly right:
ha ha ha.. this is what happens when you have ZERO SENSE OF IRONY.. i.e., are STUPID BEYOND WORDS….;)
so do they have AN ALTERNATIVE PLAN FOR INSURING THE UNINSURED??
do they favor reigning in the ins cos., so they don’t anymore discriminate against people for pre-existing conditions, or refuse to pay for a treatment because they don’t want to pay for it?? any “reform” that doesn’t tackle these particular issues is not reform, it’s BULLCRAP….
July 30th, 2009 at 8:11 pmPolitical suicide.
July 30th, 2009 at 8:11 pmThis isn’t meant as a reply to 54 Thursday, because that’s a lost cause, anyway.
First, I wouldn’t trust the figures and don’t concede that the survival rates are higher here than in other countries.
The term “Cancer Survivor” refers to someone who stays alive for a specified number of years once the cancer was treated.
The fallacy of this argument lies in the fact that in the U.S. many people contract cancer and die because they cannot receive treatment because they simply can’t afford to pay for it or the non-cancellable health insurance policies that would pay for it.
These cancers are not included in the “Survivor” statistics.
In civilized countries that have single-payer health care systems, everyone who comes down with a cancer of one type or another would be included in the statistics, because everyone WOULD receive treatment.
I’ll concede this to reich wingers, America probably does have the best medical care system in the world that money can buy.
Britain, Canada, Australia, Cuba, France, Germany, Italy, the Scandanavian countries, Japan, Argentina, Brazil, etc., these countries have medical care based on the humanitiarian ideals Americans used to believe in, and the overall results they receive for their medical dollars surpasses what the American system achieves.
July 30th, 2009 at 8:17 pmyeah, but the problem is then precisely that because of the high costs millions of people are left with no access..
there are probably larger rates of cancer survival here because maybe THERE IS MORE CANCER HERE THAN IN EUROPE….?? ;)
July 30th, 2009 at 8:31 pmAhhh….these guys don’t have the guts to do that..I think they’re just talking out of their “twatwaffles”
Wiley..thanks for making me laugh…after listening to what the tin-foil hat wearing nuts have been saying today, I needed that a lot !!!
July 30th, 2009 at 10:42 pmI used the word “twat” the other day, and it was the first time I had used it or seen it in a very long time.
Now it seems that the word is in every other post.
So I would like to take the time to congratulate myself on reviving what I think is a very useful and hilarious word.
smidget = trendsetter.
July 31st, 2009 at 8:32 amNever thought THAT would happen.
@54thursday
If you are to make the argument that beecause you live in this country you are protected by the military, thus your tax dollars should go to the military (ignoring the fact that they aren’t protecting us from anything at the moment except a surplus), you must also be willing to admit that an educated population equals a stronger, more secure, and more economically stable country, thus you are directly benefitting from the public school system.
In other words, as lost of a cause as you are, it is still important that someone at least try to tell you how wrong you are.
July 31st, 2009 at 8:39 amWonder how many people will leave if this happens?
July 31st, 2009 at 10:42 amWe are now on the ‘watch the GOP destroy Florida’ watch.
Hey Floridians, are you really going to let this happen?? Way to go(snark).
How does a move to government run, single payer health care increase “choice”?
July 31st, 2009 at 2:07 pmHow can these political idiots prevent a US citizen from participating in a Federal Health Program,just because he lives in Florida? !!
There was one time in history a country called Soviet Union who practiced such methods against their citizens, controlling their citizens just like these politicians want to do.
July 31st, 2009 at 2:08 pmtarazan
You really need to pay more attention. The Florida legislation was to prevent people from being forced to buy insurance not preventing them from buying it. Obama is the one attempting to turn the US into the Soviet Union.
July 31st, 2009 at 3:18 pmI called the offices of both. Tom in Baker’s office tells me that this has no teeth…it’s just designed to send a message to Washington. You know, because the State of Florida has unlimited resources for operating the legislature and conducting elections on things that “have no teeth.”
Now Brandon Delanois in Rep. Plakon’s office was the most entertaining. First, he explained that he was, prior to going to work for the Representative, paying for his own health insurance, and had a plan for only $15.00 per month, but of course, refused to tell me what company was providing plans for only $15.00 per month.
I asked, “so the people who don’t have health insurance…who pays for them when they get sick?” His answer was, “Anyone can go to an emergency room and get care. They won’t turn away anyone.” Of course I pressed him on who he thought paid for that “free” care at the ER. He finally agreed it was taxpayers.
But his argument was that the government should not mandate how people behave, and what choices they make. That the government should not require people to purchase insurance. So I asked him if the Representative would introduce a bill to rescind the law requiring that Florida residents who drive have auto insurance. Well, as you might imagine. according to him, that’s not the same thing.
The jest of what I got out of this is that these two dweebs are merely playing for votes and publicity. I think we should give it to them, and not stop talking about how much it costs the taxpayers to pay for uninsured people, and just how much it costs the taxpayers for each bill that introduced, and what it costs to have a Constitutional Amendment on the ballot. You know, since Florida has so much surplus money floating around.
July 31st, 2009 at 4:30 pmThe feds can do what they did with highway funding. Let the states know that if they are going to prohibit state residents from the federal option that they will not get any federal cash for state health programs.
August 1st, 2009 at 12:45 pm