MSNBC Host Calls Out Pence’s Lie That House Health Care Bill Will Cost ‘$1 Trillion In Higher Taxes’
MSNBC Host Calls Out Pence’s Lie That House Health Care Bill Will Cost ‘$1 Trillion In Higher Taxes’
Rep. Mike Pence (R-IN) has taken a leading role in the Republican efforts to lie and fearmonger about the Democrats’ health care plans in hopes of killing it. Last May, Pence argued the public option “will deprive roughly 120 million Americans of their current health care coverage,” a claim PolitiFact.com deemed to be “false.”
Pence was at it again this morning on MSNBC. This time, he claimed that the House health care bill recently scored by the Congressional Budget Office “will literally cost nearly a trillion dollars in higher taxes.” Host Carlos Watson immediately jumped in. “Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa,” Watson interjected, “unless you’re looking at different data than I’m looking at, I don’t remember there being a trillion dollars in new taxes.” Pence said he was “rounding up,” and then later revised his figure to $800 billion. But Watson wouldn’t budge, and neither would Pence:
WATSON: I’m very clear that we are not talking about anywhere close to a trillion or $800 billion in new taxes…so if you’ve got data from the CBO that suggests that some of the proposals on the table…represent that much in new taxes then that’s significant new information. Where are you getting that?
PENCE: Well I don’t think that’s significant new information I think the estimates we’ve all been working with from the CBO are in the — I’m trying to remember — it’s about the $800 billion range in the estimated cost of new taxes. … That’s really all out there Carlos.
Watch it:
Pence’s claims are indeed “out there” in that they aren’t true. In fact, the CBO’s preliminary estimate of the House bill said that its entire cost would be just over $1 trillion over 10 years. $540 billion of that (i.e. not $800 billion or $1 trillion) would be paid for with new taxes on the rich affecting just 1.2 percent of U.S. households. The rest of the bill would be fully offset by savings in Medicare and other health systems.
But Pence doesn’t seem to care that his attacks on health reform are lies. He’s promoting the MSNBC segment with Watson on his own YouTube channel. And as further evidence that Pence just blurts out whatever he thinks will kill reform, just this week, he urged those who “oppose government-run health care” to “call your congressman.” Yet later in the same day, Pence said, “I support Medicare.”
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PENCE: … I think the estimates we’ve all been working with from the CBO are in the — I’m trying to remember
– - Yeah, you try, Mike. After all, why bother doing homework on such an insignificant issue and knowing the facts.
July 30th, 2009 at 5:37 pmPence obviously doesn’t wanna be a Colbert Factinista.
He’s also excluding the offset costs, that will, IF THERE IS A PUBLIC PLAN, be reducing the overall cost over time.
July 30th, 2009 at 5:42 pmCost reduction thingys, specifically…Geez, RU, write much?
July 30th, 2009 at 5:43 pmHe’s just plain lying. That’s what Mike Pence does best.
It’s funny how all those “Values” people don’t include truth as a value.
July 30th, 2009 at 5:45 pmWhat Pence really meant by “out there” is that his claims are way out in right field somewhere beyond the stadium.
These a*sholes simply aren’t happy unless they are outright lying to or deceiving people.
July 30th, 2009 at 5:45 pmIt would be great if Pence’s nose would grow as he was talking…I would die laughing as it would bump into the camera lens…
July 30th, 2009 at 5:49 pmI suggest TV Hosts keep a laptop on the set where they can openly look up the facts about whatever vicious lie the R’s come up with. Imagine:
R: Single Payer will cost taxpayers 1 Trillion dollars!
Host: Where did you get that number?
R: !@#$%^&! (word spray)
H: Well, let’s Google it! (camera zooms on computer screen as Host tries to find any Factual evidence to support R’s claim.
H: I don’t see any factually based evidence supporting your claim. There are several Government and Independent groups have evidence showing Public Healthcare would be “Tax Neutral”, or that a Public Plan would cost less than Private Insurance.
R (changes subject): The Public Plan would euthanize Seniors and terminally ill persons!
H: Where did you hear that?
R: (Repeats comment louder adding groups who would be murdered by Public Health)
H: What section of the Health Plan Bill advocates euthanasia?
R: (More Word Spray)
Host: Let’s look it up (repeat of first subject investigation)
Host: I can’t find any evidence to support your claim. Can you tell us something verifiable?
R: Abortion! Abortion! Gov’t funded Abortion! Gov’t ADVOCATED abortion! Abortion! Gov’t MANDATED abortion!
Host: God, I’m tired.
July 30th, 2009 at 5:55 pmIt has been widely reported that CBO scores are partisan and are only real in the sense that buying life insurance means you are going to die sooner than later. It doesn’t take into account personal decisions about healthy lifestyle choices, etc. It pools data based on worst outcomes and then puts a conservative economic spin on it to boot. Again, the MSM misleads the country down a destructive path by covering lies as if there is were on the same plain with the facts. Until we Progressives can break thru the MSM fog and tell the people this is not campaign “horse race” but about a real gamble among ourselves. We must explain that some of the horses in the race have only 3 legs and others are 40 year old nags. This is not a campaign this is a life and death issue to millions of middle class families and their parents and their children. Let’s fight the good fight and call out the lies and liers who are telling them.
July 30th, 2009 at 5:57 pmPresident Obama has got to drive a stake in all this nonsense by endorsing the House bill that’s fully offset and the HELP bill, then vouch for the two bills coming together in conference after passage. These bills are moving along despite the rest of the do-nothings making a pig’s sty out of the debate. The president needs to make an endorsement soon.
July 30th, 2009 at 5:58 pmPence is an integral part of the gop noise machine….he reminds me of the wind-up-doll that you can get at the thrift shops where discarded gop nut-bags are sold.
Pence is LAIR. Hopefully most people from the reality-based community know he’s a liar. AND, he continues to be a lie machine by just inserting a quarter…he is useless..
July 30th, 2009 at 6:00 pmHow do I know he is lying?
July 30th, 2009 at 6:01 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Answer:
July 30th, 2009 at 6:02 pmHis mouth is moving…
” That’s really all out there Carlos.When Repubs make a comment like that, you know they are full of s**t.
“it’s about the $800 billion range in the estimated cost…”
Typical Repub wording: “about”, “range”, “estimated” — meaning basically, he made the whole thing up & has no accurate figures whatsoever.
July 30th, 2009 at 6:05 pmNONE of them care if it’s lies… it’s just what they do…
check this out:
Seniors uneasy over Medicare cuts in overhaul
By RICARDO ALONSO-ZALDIVAR (AP) – 1 hour ago
WASHINGTON — Democrats are pushing for Medicare cuts on a scale not seen in years to underwrite health care for all. Many seniors now covered under the program don’t like that one bit.
Seeing a political opportunity, Republicans have accused President Barack Obama of trying to use Medicare as a piggy bank to finance his top domestic priority — putting the president on the defensive on a highly sensitive issue.
At an AARP town hall meeting earlier this week, Obama went out of his way to address “a misperception” that the Democratic bills in Congress would cut medical benefits for the elderly.
“Nobody is talking about reducing Medicare benefits,” Obama said. [...]
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5ho4ai2q18tQ9j82kd3N3ltEANRzwD99P06L80
now, why are we all so confused??? … jeezuz…
July 30th, 2009 at 6:07 pmGood on Carlos Watson for calling out Pence on his lies.
It is too bad that the corporate media will let any one on and let them say anything. There wouldn’t be all this misinformation if we had an honest, rather than a corporate media, doing its job.
July 30th, 2009 at 6:11 pmLet’s see, every American is paying taxes so Pence can have the best, most expensive health care for life, and he’s trying
to deny average citizens basic no frills health care.
I guess a caste system is great if you’re on the top.
July 30th, 2009 at 6:11 pmHigher taxes? Shit I ‘d better buy a whole bunch of weapons and restrict myself to a family compound…I promise to claim to love my country and put a whole lot of flag stickers on my F-150…
July 30th, 2009 at 6:23 pmThis web site mentioned by Thom Hartmann will help debunk all myths the insurance co are putting out there at a tune of over a million $ a day to keep their for profit screw America plans:
pleasecutthecrap.typepad.com/
Deconstructing the Right Wing Lies on the Health Insurance Bill
July 30th, 2009 at 6:25 pmRUCerious says: #2
The republican “plan” is just to lie and stonewall the democrat plan so that the big health care corporations can continue their status quo. Ever higher premiums, more denial of benefits, higher executive compensation and more money to republicans and blue cross democrats, you know, their personal whores.
July 30th, 2009 at 6:27 pmOT
July 30th, 2009 at 6:36 pmOMG. Is this right?
Did Sgt. Crowley show up at the White House with an attorney and a union representative?
Mathazar says:
Let’s see, every American is paying taxes so Pence can have the best, most expensive health care for life, and he’s trying
to deny average citizens basic no frills health care.
Yes but he deserves it because he is sacrificing himself for the good of the people whom he represents. He could be making far more money in the private sector but wanted to really make a difference with his life so we owe him that perk at the very least. Because he has sacrificed so much by putting the interests of his constituents ahead of his own interests.
(snark/off)
July 30th, 2009 at 6:41 pmWe all know that the United Kingdom has the National Health Service, right? And it works pretty well, by and large. Britons are basically pretty happy with it, at any rate. It’s essentially completely socialized medicine.
Guess when they started it?
–
–
–
1948.
In the aftermath of the devastation of WW2. Britain not only faced the task of rebuilding its cities and infrastructure, it also faced a war debt to the United States that was finally retired in 2006. And they still went ahead with the National Health. This is what civilized societies do. They take care of their people, the poor as well as the wealthy.
The idea that our economy is too fragile to make this happen is not supported by history.
July 30th, 2009 at 6:48 pmThanks Think Progress for posting this video! I watched this interview today and wanted badly to start smashing things around me.
July 30th, 2009 at 7:00 pmralph the wonder llama says: #24
Well, Ralph, the big corporate, wonder wheel machine of lies, distortions and propaganda have done their job well here in the United States. If their (and any other country with universal health care) plan(s) is so bad then how come we have higher infant mortality rates, lower life expectancy, lower overall health and wellness, etc. It would seem that if our system is so damn great that all countries would be clamouring to have our bright, shining system of compassionate, thoughtful and humane health care. Of course they will never do that because our system isn’t based on anything regarding health care. It’s based on greed and only greed.
You’re absolutely right, civilized societies do the right thing. What does that say about our society?
July 30th, 2009 at 7:06 pmWe need to see more anchors actually follow through in these interviews as Watson did today.
July 30th, 2009 at 7:30 pmRepugs are making things up as they go along and most anchors just let them spin away. Watson actually tried to get him to defend his false claims.
I think part of Repugniscum 101 though is a class on how to double talk, talk over your opposition, and never, never admit you are blowing smoke.
Well, dayum!! It’s about freaking time somebody called these evil bastards on their lies.
Sheesh!!
July 30th, 2009 at 7:34 pmKudos to Carlos Watson for not allowing a blatant lie most members of our media would have let go with a smile.
July 30th, 2009 at 7:38 pmGreat point Ralph
July 30th, 2009 at 8:04 pmPart of the reason why public support for health care reform has declined is that the Democrats keep taking the high road to promote the legislation, while the Republicans continue to travel the low road in their efforts to squash any bill containing substantive reform, relying heavily on health insurance industry lobbyists to promote their message of maintaining the status quo.
Remember the 4 D’s of the Republican strategy during the Obama years: Delay, Distract, Distort, Deceive.
We are seeing their “fear and doubt”-inciting propaganda campaign bear some fruit.
The antidote is information — the public needs to be better educated about what the proposed health care reform plans do and do not include, as well as how it will and will not be funded.
July 30th, 2009 at 8:14 pmThis Republican campaign of disinformation will continue until the Dems fight back. It is time for Obama and the Dems to stop being nice and hit back. They need to get out a lot of ads on health care and run them in prime time until the vote in September. The lies are increasing exponentially and the Dems have not gone on a PR offensive.
July 30th, 2009 at 8:15 pmPence is pulling his “facts” from the same place as Bachmann, Steven King, and Virginia Foxx (and the rest of the r’s) out of their asses. Pence actually has been going to Iowa lately because he thinks he could run for president LOL.
I despise these liars.
July 30th, 2009 at 8:32 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
How much did those Bush tax cuts cost? Yet you won’t see him complain about those. And those cuts could have fully funded the proposed system.
And hey, when does this magical “trickle-down” start?
July 30th, 2009 at 8:57 pmHow come the deficit was OK for Bush and his immoral invasion of a sovereign country ?
And have they forgotten already that a good part of Obama’s deficit was that Obama insisted that the costs of Iraq and Afghanistan be brought back onto the books (as opposed to Bush’s Enron accounting techniques) ?
July 30th, 2009 at 8:58 pmI think that comment needs emphasis, Maplestreet.
How come the deficit was OK for Bush and his immoral invasion of a sovereign country ?
July 30th, 2009 at 9:01 pmAnd have they forgotten already that a good part of Obama’s deficit was that Obama insisted that the costs of Iraq and Afghanistan be brought back onto the books (as opposed to Bush’s Enron accounting techniques) ?
poor jenny… doesn’t WANT to pay for other’s healthcare, but
must not have heard about the report saying that she already is…
to the tune of $1000-$1400 per year per family…
she’s not as selfish as she thinks…
still just as ignorant…
July 30th, 2009 at 9:02 pmAnd jenny A_A arrives with typical repugniscum comments indicating a firm belief in “I got mine – screw you.”
July 30th, 2009 at 9:02 pmThey think that the rising cost of premiums, deductibles and co-pays is not the plan of profit-making insurance companies, who are like vulchers preying upon sixk people.
July 30th, 2009 at 9:06 pmThat all charges are increased to the insured to cover the costs of treating the uninsured — oh, wait — repugs think that uninsured people should just remain sick or injured and receive no care…(I forgot that for a minute).
If jenny loses her job, or a child develops a condition, she too will find that she can’t get coverage.
I suspect that miss jenny goes to church every Sunday, to enhance her very christian beliefs. WWJD, jenny?
July 30th, 2009 at 9:08 pmjenny_aidyn_aaron says:
Its ok. We understand. You are a moron. You dont know anything about liberals or anything else so you regurgitate what Rush told you to think. We understand. You are stupid. You will always be stupid. We dont despise you for it. We pity you. It must be sad for you to be so stupid and so pathetic. So rant away. Dont bother to try to make sense or keep any connection to REALITY. Just repeat the talking points. After all you are always going to be to stupid to think for yourself. Original thought, heck, higher brain function itself is beyond your wildest dreams so just be a troll like the rest of them. After all, you really arent capable of anything else.
July 30th, 2009 at 9:14 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Jenny
My GOD you are stupid and brainwashed. I do love to laugh at morons as stupid as you. You really are a walking talking point. Rush does the thinking you do the repeating. Of course its all stupid BullShite but then we never expected an actual point from a moron like you. I have healthcare. Very good healthcare, and a good life. I want that for my nieghbor. Right now 18,000 of my nieghbors a year die from lack of access to healthcare. You dont CARE. You are busy patting yourself on the back for something as minimal as having a job. You think poor people should just crawl off and die quietly because you have no heart, no soul and no decency. Its ok. Just one more reason to pity you. Such a sad, stupid pathetic creature you are. Not really a human being at all. I mean you have no brain just a tape recorder. I guess you are more like a subhuman moron
July 30th, 2009 at 9:33 pmI think sometimes Christians forget that when Cain asked God if he were his brothers keeper, the answer to that question was SUPPOSED to be yes
July 30th, 2009 at 9:51 pmjenny_a_a,
No matter how you got to where you are today, it is simply a fact that you are not the “self-made person” you might think you are. And for all your disdain for “liberal crap”, you obviously do not understand how liberal policies have help make the kind of society where there are enough people to enrich greedy, selfish people such as you.
Enjoy sleeping on your wads of cash. Have a nice life.
July 30th, 2009 at 10:19 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
This comment has been voted down. Click to read.
What a farcical character.
July 30th, 2009 at 10:38 pmSo, Jenny, dear – you say, and I’m quoting here, “Thank God there’s not a damn thing any of us can do about it”…so, tell me, who won the last election…?
I call that “doing something about it,” you ugly beeyotch.
July 30th, 2009 at 10:38 pmYeah, Jenny. That’s just what Jesus would do, too.
Right?
You’re no Christian. Don’t even pretend you are.
July 30th, 2009 at 10:39 pmJenny
Aidyn
Arron
3 poor kids that will grow up really messed up.
They DO know your using their names for a screenname right?
pathetic
July 30th, 2009 at 10:45 pmjenny_aidyn_aaron says:
This comment has been voted down. Click to read.
And….
July 30th, 2009 at 10:59 pmjenny sez – “I drive home and kiss my wife and the children…”
well, there is a bright side after all!
jenny supports Same Sex Marriage! with children!!!
good on ya, jen!
July 30th, 2009 at 11:01 pmIf things are as bleak as the repubes are saying, by all means euthanize me BEFORE I get old!
July 30th, 2009 at 11:02 pmjenny_aidyn_aaron says:
I feel like when people need help that isnt the time to preach to them how good YOU have it. I think if you see someone on their knees its time to think there but the grace of God go I and give them some help. YOU obviously see them and think they are in the perfect position to kick their teeth down their throat. Dont even TALK to me about GIVING people jobs. YOU are a parasite. You get your MONEY off of the sweat of your workers. You didnt give them charity you gave them the opportunity to MAKE YOU MONEY. I know you are stupid. That is just so clear. You LOOK for reasons why you are better than other people. You arent. First you are stupid, Second nothing is more important than the quality of a persons heart and you dont have one. I have EXACTLY the life I wanted to have. If I wanted a lot of money I would HAVE a lot of money. I had other priorities. No one does more and gets less out of this society than those who go to work everyday. I want to be among THOSE. I am. I make very good money and have never made a dime off another mans sweat. I have had to make no compromises in my life and most importantly I have CONTRIBUTED to society. That is important to me because I am not a subhuman moron who snivels MINE, MINE. I want to contribute to making this a better society. You only care about yourself. Live how you want but I sincerly pity you.
July 30th, 2009 at 11:18 pmjenny_aidyn_aaron says:
Yes we understand. We understood all along. You are a selfish amoral piece of garbage without a shred of decency. Yuo are also very stupid and a parasite. We got that. You only care about yourself A narcissistic ignorant piece of filth and proud of it. Sure. Good luck with that.
July 30th, 2009 at 11:29 pmAnd when jennyz kids grow up, they’ll piss on his grave for not helping to solve the myriad problems his (our) generation foisted on his darling children.
July 30th, 2009 at 11:32 pmjenny_aidyn_aaron says:
Thank God there’s not a d*** thing any of you can do about it!
While I don’t believe you are a real Christian, and am sorta on the fence as to whether or not you are a real, sincere, person, I can’t let this pass even though Mr. Debs has pretty much already schooled you on how a christian should think. If this is your attitude on living a life you believe God wants you to live, you have completely missed the message. He wants you engaged with the rest of his creation, not hiding behind some wall you’ve created. No man lives to himself, and no man dies to himself.
July 30th, 2009 at 11:46 pmPence is a stupid holy roller way out of his element. He doesn’t have a basic grasp of any concept whatsoever. He just prattles FoxNews nonsense that has been rehearsed many times.
By the way, Lou Dobbs is a moron.
July 30th, 2009 at 11:46 pmRUCerious says:
If his kids are older than ten they are already embarassed of their dick of a father
July 30th, 2009 at 11:49 pmjenny_aidyn_aaron says:
You’re right, I got mine, screw you! I got mine all on my own from my own hard work!
Keep saving your money, jenny. Maybe someday you can buy back your soul…
July 31st, 2009 at 12:07 amAs I se it $1 trillion over ten years vs $2.5 trillion a year plus for ten years…….it`s a no brainer for me but the HYPOCRITTERS from the right just don`t care,these guys will lie about anything to keep the 18,000+ American citizens not from dying,the 140,000 people that will lose health care while congress is at recess or the millions that will be denied care by their health care provider(the key word is provider) and the burden on working middle class families because their only choice is self funded insurance through their employers with higher premiums and higher deductibles.
July 31st, 2009 at 12:11 am– Glad its “the rich” and not me!
– “The rich” are eeevile; they’ll eat your babies!
– Glad “the rich” are going to pay for everything I can’t afford!
Would someone mind rationalizing why they believe that the U.S. Government should engage in policy or practice that seeks to equalize the distribution of wealth for its citizens? Exactly where is that in the constitution?
July 31st, 2009 at 12:44 amAll these politicians like Pence have are lies and fear mongering. That and hundreds of millions of dollars to buy ads to put out the lies and fear mongering. How else can they win over the wishes of 72% of Americans?
July 31st, 2009 at 12:47 amThinkLongandHard,
Don’t worry, wealth will be a trillion miles away from “equalized” by such a tax on the top 1%. Why put the tax on the top 1%? When Willie Sutton was asked why he robbed banks, he replied “that’s where the money is”.
What is your opinion of the five members of the Walton family inheriting about $20 billion each ($100 billion) while Wal-Mart employees have to go to the government for healthcare and food stamps?
July 31st, 2009 at 1:04 amI despise all this liberal crap. How can anyone believe it’s okay to kill a baby with abortion….
Blah blah blah….. And you have no problem with poor to middle class people dying every day because they can’t afford the healthcare they desperately need. You’re sooooooo pro life. STFU!!!
July 31st, 2009 at 1:05 amThinkShortandSoft,
Can you name a developed country somewhere in the world with a flat tax? Did you know that Ross Perot pays about 7% federal income tax while I pay 8.75% sales tax at the grocery store?
July 31st, 2009 at 1:07 amYeah, Pence. That’s pretty “out there.”
This is going to be an interesting August Recess…
July 31st, 2009 at 1:08 amHow can anyone believe it’s okay to kill 1,200,000 Iraqis or 3,200,000 Vietnamese?
July 31st, 2009 at 1:09 amZooey, does your school give you a recess?
July 31st, 2009 at 1:10 amI would hazard a guess that “ThinkLongandHard” hasn’t got a pot to piss in.
Leave the rich people allllooooooonnnne!!
Sheesh.
July 31st, 2009 at 1:11 amI don’t think the top 1% visit ThinkProgress
July 31st, 2009 at 1:12 amKeith,
Not anymore! ;)
July 31st, 2009 at 1:13 amI’m sure the top 1% have their servants monitor TP — they must!
July 31st, 2009 at 1:14 amThey pay people like ThinkShortandSoft.
You in that NorthWest heat wave? It’s been between 54 and 70 each day here. :-)
July 31st, 2009 at 1:18 amIt’s not so bad here, Keith, just hanging around 90. Normally we’d be at 100, so I’m not complaining.
Oregon and Washington are really getting smacked with the heat. They’re not used to that!
You’re close to the coast, right? Don’t rub it in. :P
July 31st, 2009 at 1:20 amKeith;
While altruism is great, it has no place in my discussion. Would it be “nice” for the Walton family to donate some or all of their inheritance towards the better good of the public or their fellow man? Sure! Not the point of my question though…
Is Walmart in violation of any law or statute regarding employmee wages or benefits? I’m going to assume that they’re not. So then by your question, I take it that you feel it “wrong” given that the Walton family has accumulated so much wealth at the expense of their employees – is that correct? Again, I’m not here to debate ethics, religion, or social responsibility.
Assuming I’m on the right track, my point is that rather than over taxing “the rich” who, assuming they’ve broken no law, have earned their wealth based on their abilities – maybe we need to focus on the processes that drive the economy. Using your own example, maybe we should take a look at what minimum coverages employers must offer to their employees? Your thoughts?
July 31st, 2009 at 1:24 amYeah, near the coast and I like rubbing it in. :-)
Medford was like 108 three straight days! Seattle was over 100.
July 31st, 2009 at 1:24 amInheriting wealth does not tax one’s abilities much.
Just sayin…
July 31st, 2009 at 1:29 amOoo! How clever! ThinkShortandSoft! And so very typically liberal – I have servants to monitor TP! HaHaHaHa!
If we’re done with the quippy exchanges, can we get back to serious discussion? Otherwise I’ll just go back to counting my money.
July 31st, 2009 at 1:30 amKeith,
My eldest is in Portland, and he said it was about 105. Unheard of! Luckily his apartment is surrounded by mature trees, cuz he’s got no AC.
Hell, I don’t either. This is the PNW! :D
July 31st, 2009 at 1:31 amThinkShortandSoft,
Since the five Waltons have $100 billion, I don’t think you can say they are overtaxed. I think you could make an argument they have not been taxed enough. And they did not earn the money. It had nothing to do with their abilities. It had to do with one million employees of their father working hard. And the workers did not get paid squat—hence the eligibility for food stamps and healthcare from the government. Do you think it fair that over 60% of companies pay no tax whatsoever? Do you think it fair that Ross Perot pays 7% federal income tax?
Why shouldn’t working 40 hours per week earn you enough for healthcare? It does in the rest of the world’s developed countries.
July 31st, 2009 at 1:31 amLighten up, dude.
July 31st, 2009 at 1:32 amI am not saying that paying 5 bucks per hour and zero benefits is illegal. I am saying the problem is that it is legal. Can you comprehend that?
July 31st, 2009 at 1:34 amHe musta gone back to counting his money!
July 31st, 2009 at 1:38 amMust have a lot of change….
July 31st, 2009 at 1:40 amIt’s funny that the US is proudly proclaimed “the best country in the world” — usually by us — but we have 47 million (and counting) people whose access to health care is pretty much limited to the emergency room; and we treat health care and education as privileges, not rights.
That’s really not all that great.
July 31st, 2009 at 1:44 amYeah, but we kick anyone else’s ass in the world. That’s what makes us great.
July 31st, 2009 at 1:46 amContinuing my comment above…
And it’s truly tragic that for many people in this country, money is more important than human health and life.
July 31st, 2009 at 1:46 amYeah, we’re the biggest bully on the schoolyard. ;)
July 31st, 2009 at 1:47 amThinkLongandHard says:
I’m not here to debate ethics, religion, or social responsibility.
Republican mantra…(minus the religion part)
July 31st, 2009 at 1:48 amYou can always get medical care at the ER, but they are going to send you the bill. And it can easily go into the thousands. Plus that 47 million figure doesn’t count the ones with health insurance but not able to afford to use it due to deductibles and copays. I think someone said it’s possible to have a $20,000 deductible!
July 31st, 2009 at 1:49 amIf you don’t care about ethics, morality, social responsibility, or anyone but yourself, but just want efficiency and savings—-then you should also favor single-payer healthcare.
July 31st, 2009 at 1:52 amWell bob, it’s apparent that our guest couldn’t make his argument stand up, especially against our hard-hitting discussion about the heat was in the northwest. ;)
July 31st, 2009 at 1:52 amThe last time I had “decent” insurance coverage, it cost $550 per month (and rising every single year) just to cover me, and I had a $2000 deductible. It might as well have been a $20K deductible!
Now I have Student Health aka Student Death. One trip to the ER will bankrupt me. Terrifying…
July 31st, 2009 at 1:57 amI know someone who was earning $6.75 per hour and the company offered the worst plan possible for $1,000 per month—-knowing that noone would take it, hence no payment from the company. Later they said you are no longer employees, you are now independent contractors—hence no health payment from the company.
July 31st, 2009 at 2:10 amHey, they offered health insurance, didn’t they!? It’s not the company’s fault if no one takes it. And now that they’re independent contractors, they can take care of paying their own Social Security, health care, and payroll taxes — it’s uniquely American!!
I really can’t stand that kind of shit. We are in sad shape in this country.
July 31st, 2009 at 2:16 amI want to live in a world where people care for one another, where we’re healthy and educated, and where the definition of success and worth is not connected to how high one’s stack of money is.
Yeah, not in my lifetime…
July 31st, 2009 at 2:22 amRighton Zooster! When I tell Europeans (a couple years ago) that some Americans earn $5.15 per hour with no healthcare, no sick pay, no annual leave, no holiday pay, and no security—they just think I am some crazy exaggerater who doesn’t know what he’s talking about. (No wisecracks).
Gotta go. Toodles.
July 31st, 2009 at 2:25 amTake care, Keith.
Now that it’s cool, it’s time to try to sleep.
Toodles!
July 31st, 2009 at 2:31 amThinkLongandHard says:
How typically conservative of you. That is incredibly STUPID. Yeah, servants. Go ahead and count your pocketchange. We wont discuss how you earned it.
July 31st, 2009 at 3:03 amOK – back now. Had to go do some actual work for a while…
Ironically Keith, I think you and I are in violent agreement:
Funny how that got lost in all the liberal/conservative name calling and finger pointing..
July 31st, 2009 at 3:43 amThinkLongandHard says:
Ooo! How clever! ThinkShortandSoft! And so very typically liberal – I have servants to monitor TP! HaHaHaHa!
If we’re done with the quippy exchanges, can we get back to serious discussion? Otherwise I’ll just go back to counting my money.
Healthcare for all > money.
July 31st, 2009 at 8:34 amLife is more important than money.
The fact that so many in our country disagree with that statement is why we aren’t the best country in the world, and why we aren’t even remotely close to being the best country in the world.
We are, instead, a country full of fat, lazy, selfish bastards. Unfortunately, I’m not fully confident we can recover from that, healthcare reform or not.
July 31st, 2009 at 9:10 am(R): “I think we need to slow down on this and do it right….because my check from the insurance companies is due next month.” “But we do need to help all of our citizens!!……sometime.”
July 31st, 2009 at 9:16 amThinkShortandSoft,
rather than over taxing “the rich” who, assuming they’ve broken no law, have earned their wealth based on their abilities -
I don’t think the tax increase on the top 1% would be overtaxing them. Many just sit on their rears and collect capital gains and pay a smaller percentage of tax than the middle-class (as Buffet said). Especially if they are invested in tax-free bonds or hidden offshore. Over 60% of American companies pay nothing whatsoever. Is that overtaxed? If the five Waltons (who did nothing) have $100 billion after tax, were they overtaxed? Ross Perot really did pay 7% federal income tax on $200 million yearly income. He had to show all in 1992 and 1996. Was he overtaxed?
To make employers pay more under our private system that is twice the cost of single-payer, hurts businesses.
You can raise hundreds of billions of dollars every year with a small tax on securities speculation:
http://www.citizenworks.org/admin/SST%20Summary.php
You don’t have to raise money to go to single-payer universal coverage. It pays for itself by being so extremely efficient compared to the private insurers.
Finally, if someone gives themselves a flattering name, I don’t like to use it.
July 31st, 2009 at 11:23 am