More ‘Town Halls Gone Wild’: Angry Far Right Protesters Disrupt Events With ‘Incomprehensible’ Yelling
More ‘Town Halls Gone Wild’: Angry Far Right Protesters Disrupt Events With ‘Incomprehensible’ Yelling
Since members of Congress have been returning home to their districts for the August recess, a consortium of industry-backed right-wing groups have been planning ambushes to harass Democrats for supporting health care reform. ThinkProgress obtained a leaked memo from a volunteer with Tea Party Patriots, a website sponsored by lobbyist-run groups Americans for Prosperity and FreedomWorks, that details how members should be disrupting town halls and “rattling” Democratic members of Congress.
Last night, Rep. Steve Kagen (D-WI) and Rep. Steve Driehaus (D-OH) were apparently the latest victims of this strategy. Kagen, whose town hall was targeted by the Wisconsin chapter of Americans for Prosperity, was “repeatedly disrupted” by “incomprehensible” shrieks and shouts from angry conservatives. Watch it:
Driehaus politely allowed an already angry crowd of tea party people into his town hall, and greeted them by saying, “I know that there are those with the tea party group and I welcome you and I welcome them to my office.” Despite his offer for constructive dialogue, within minutes, members of the right-wing crowd began booing and hissing with repeated howls of “move to Europe!” Watch it:
Greg Sargent reports that Rick Scott, the disgraced hospital executive bankrolling the anti-health reform group Conservatives for Patients’ Rights, is now joining the effort to disrupt health care town halls. The for-profit health industry is contributing a great deal of resources to pressure lawmakers against reform. Last weekend, the health insurance lobby announced that they will be sending staff to “confront” lawmakers at town halls and will be transitioning to negative ads.
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Hooligans! Geriatric Hooligans.
August 4th, 2009 at 3:29 pmJust hoping maybe one of these meetings the ones who really want to be there and learn or ask real questions will just stand up and tell them that they want there questions asked and answered and if they couldn’t be polite enough and respectful enough of the others they need to stfu and get the hell out.
August 4th, 2009 at 3:29 pmWe’ve made a huge mistake here by underestimating these idiots. That they would demonstrate their idiocy, get a bit of time in the news, and it would die out as quickly as the teabaggings.
These fools are not going away, and they’re destroying every opportunity for people to be heard over their inane screams, for an intelligent debate on any issue.
The White Wing’s wet dream. What has happened to this nation?
PEACE
August 4th, 2009 at 3:30 pmTea Party Crowd Crashes Steny Hoyer Event
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/08/tea-party-crowd-crashes-steny-hoyer-event.php
Hoyer Ambushed
August 4th, 2009 at 3:30 pmhttp://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2009/08/ambush.php?ref=fpblg
Why are some Republicans so dumb? And the cynicism of those who pander to them is just disgusting.
August 4th, 2009 at 3:30 pmOdd coincidence that he only news stations covering this seem to be Fox affiliates. Funny how that works.
August 4th, 2009 at 3:31 pmComplete Morons to the core…
August 4th, 2009 at 3:32 pmLet them scream! Let them shout! These people are nothing but the same cretins of ‘Birther’ movement. It is plain to see. Old, white, and bitter that a black man won the White House. They are paranoid individuals who didn’t give a sh*t when Bush was pissing our future away, but NOW thy are demanding venegence? Why? Because their way of life is threatened. They want the 50s style suburbs, when minorities knew their ‘Place’ Sad, demented people,
August 4th, 2009 at 3:32 pmCheck residency to District at the door.
Ensure local law enforcement is in the room.
Video the audience as it happens.
Sugar & gas tanks don’t like each other…
August 4th, 2009 at 3:32 pmLet’s hope that we learn that security will be needed to remove hooligans who don’t play by the rules.
August 4th, 2009 at 3:32 pmIt just kills me that these mental midgets don’t even realize how they’re being used and manipulated. The corporate bigwigs are laughing behind their backs the whole time. Instead of yelling “fire!”, they yell “socialism! euthanasia! government takover!” and their minions go wild. Pathetic.
August 4th, 2009 at 3:32 pmHarry Reid:
“we’re going to continue to be positive and work hard.”
Oh, ok. Well, then, no reason to worry about all this bad press then. Long as you’re going to be positive and work hard.
sheesh
August 4th, 2009 at 3:33 pmWhy do these folks allow themselves to be used over and over. This is bound go go over as well as the tea parties.
August 4th, 2009 at 3:35 pmThey’re attracting unfavorable attention to the anti-health-care folks. These NAZI tactics may have worked in 2000, but the internet has had nine years to advance, computer prices have dropped into the hundreds, so that more people know what is really going on.
Check Daily KOS for an account of these petty criminals being properly dealt with, and shut down.
August 4th, 2009 at 3:35 pmput the camera’s on them. The country needs to see what they are doing. Shut down all discussion exept to talk about this movement to disrupt until it is shut down.
August 4th, 2009 at 3:35 pmThis is really becoming scary. Very scary. Within these foaming at tne mouth, rabid mobs, there might be one of them who would be stupid enough to act on their irrational fears and do some harm.
August 4th, 2009 at 3:37 pmNow we can see why George Bush went to such lengths to filter people out of his town halls. Since the right engages in this atrocious obstruction, they naturally assumed the left would too. Never mind that there is little comparison between the left’s idea of civil disruption, asking tough questions, and the right’s, yelling incoherently so nobody can stand being in the vicinity.
August 4th, 2009 at 3:37 pmSorry OT:
N. Korean leader reportedly pardons U.S. journalists
(CNN) — North Korean President Kim Jong Il has pardoned and released two U.S. journalists, state-run news agency KCNA said Wednesday.
The announcement came after former U.S. President Clinton met with top North Korean officials in Pyongyang to appeal for their release.
“Clinton expressed words of sincere apology to Kim Jong Il for the hostile acts committed by the two American journalists against the DPRK after illegally intruding into it,” the news agency reported. “Clinton courteously conveyed to Kim Jong Il an earnest request of the U.S. government to leniently pardon them and send them back home from a humanitarian point of view.
“The meetings had candid and in-depth discussions on the pending issues between the DPRK and the U.S. in a sincere atmosphere and reached a consensus of views on seeking a negotiated settlement of them.”
The report said Clinton then conveyed a message from U.S. President Obama “expressing profound thanks for this and reflecting views on ways of improving the relations between the two countries.”
LINK
August 4th, 2009 at 3:39 pmJim Wolf359 says:
Jim, I totally agree. They’ve been ginned up, the President and the Democrats have been held up as the source of all their problems and discontent, just as the Nazi Party did with the Jews.
It’s only a matter of time before someone gets hurt, or worse…
PEACE
August 4th, 2009 at 3:39 pmThey’ve got their Medicare, to HELL WITH ALL OF YOU LIBS!
And, uh, “Americans for Prosperity”??? What’s prosperous about going bankrupt as a result of medical bills? “Americans for Lost Property” — more like it.
August 4th, 2009 at 3:39 pmThey try to compensate for a lack of reason with volume. Will it work? I hope to God it won’t. But you can never tell.
I’m looking forward to b-cup showing up to explain how these people are simply citizens with “legitimate concerns”, even though their astroturf playbook was exposed days ago.
August 4th, 2009 at 3:42 pmI bet none of those people voted for Obama in the first place…so why should we care what they think..I don’t understand when they whine and cry and kick about his agenda when they were always against it in the first place.
August 4th, 2009 at 3:42 pmLook, even Glenn Beck told his audienece not to resort to violence. This is going to back-fire. Palin/McCain tried to incite these people, it didn’t work. The ‘Tea-Bag’ movement was a joke. These people are an embarassment. Talk about ‘White Bread’. And most of them are old. WTF do they care about Health Care Reform? They get Medicare and Social Security! This is all about Obama and the fact he is a minority. And these idiots better get a clue. In a couple of decades THEY will be the minority. Sometimes I love Cosmic Justice.
August 4th, 2009 at 3:43 pmAs the party of No doubles down on the strategy, screaming “NO,” is anyone else reminded of a three year old and the tactics they use?
I thank W every day for making the Rethuglican brand so toxic that a black man was voted into the most powerful office in the world. Resoundingly.
Now we just have to fix congress in the same way.
August 4th, 2009 at 3:45 pmI’ve seen two year olds who just got their candy taken away maintain better control than these bozos
August 4th, 2009 at 3:45 pmRepublicscum + corporate powers that be at their best.
August 4th, 2009 at 3:45 pmOff topic, but just reported — apparently Bill Clinton’s trip to North Korea was successful. It has been announced that the two jailed Americans there have been pardoned.
August 4th, 2009 at 3:46 pmI just sent a couple of links to this site to show them that the crazies are doing this in Houston too. At one of the congressmen’s town hall meeting, who’s a Democratic, these nuts showed their true colors: (check out the video in the post)
http://davidortez.com/2009/08/04/i-support-gene-green
August 4th, 2009 at 3:46 pmOops, sorry DNFP. I need to learn to read others’ posts before posting my own.
August 4th, 2009 at 3:47 pmMore rabid parrots.
It seems to only infect the white species.
August 4th, 2009 at 3:48 pmHeard on Hannity: Hysterical woman screaming that Obama was trying to take over the country.
August 4th, 2009 at 3:49 pmLOL
He who yells the loudest must be “right”.
August 4th, 2009 at 3:49 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
miss@29, Already Slick Willie is being denounced. By whom you ask? None other than John ‘The Lunatic’ Bolten! You know, the As*hole who thought destroying the United Nations was a good idea.
August 4th, 2009 at 3:50 pmThis stuff is way past being funny..These right wing wacko’s are a very serious threat to this Nation. If they have their way America as we know it will no longer exist.
August 4th, 2009 at 3:51 pmThe hatefulness of brown shirt thugs of Italy and German in the 1930s is still with us in the 21st century. First they showed up in December 2000 as a mob screaming at the Miami-Dade County offices trying to stop the Presidential Election vote counting in Florida. More recently, these racists showed up at Palin rallys in summer and fall 2008. Now they are doing the bidding of private insurance companies and their corporate lobbyists trying to eliminate civil public discussions of health care reform plans at town hall meetings. Goose-step your way back to your home counties and home states, morons. Seems that these folks need some mental health care ASAP…
August 4th, 2009 at 3:52 pmIf as Spencer’s mom says someone gets hurt or worse, I will hold Glen Beck and the other whackjobs on the right responsible for it. Beck tried to walk back his insane rethoric but its way too late for that. The Genie is out of the bottle and won’t be going back in anytime soon.
August 4th, 2009 at 3:52 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Some people enjoy being followers in life, taking orders from people they don’t even know. Any opp. to draw attention to themselves, they’ll be out there embarrassing themselves, unconcerned with the accuracy of the message or whether they’ll put themselves in a rut vying for the wrong cause.
August 4th, 2009 at 3:53 pmThis is so ridiculous even by gopper standards, it’s hard to comment. A bunch of bitter old people in Depends are trying to block healthcare?
There are two types of old people. There are the ones who are sweet and happy because they had a good enjoyable life and then there are the bitter mean ones.
August 4th, 2009 at 3:54 pmTurkey Bacon says:
Progressives started this?
August 4th, 2009 at 3:55 pmProve it.
4th Reich Disrupting Demoncratic Town Halls
The 4th Reich Stormtroopers are out disrupting town halls organized to discuss the Obama Healthcare Plan.
The Kochtopus has unleashed it’s trained attack dogs to shout down any attempts to mobilize public support for nationally available healthcare for the unserved, and several billionaires have pooled their money and assets to cripple the democratic process.
Network TV and cable stations are by an large owned by the ultra-wealthy whom is indifferent to the health of 50,000,000 Americans, unless these plutocrats own Big Pharma stocks, and then they are viciously anti-change.
Under cover of multiple front groups posing as “grassroots” locally organized citizen efforts, in fact, racketeer billionaires are funding stormtroopers to flood public meetings and intimidate with shouted hate and violent posturing. Corrupt Rupert Murdoch, who killed 3,000 American people a day with serial killing tobacco corporations was adjudicated to be involved with a R.I.C.O. organized crime effort — can you think he cares if people have no healthcare after hospitalizing people with tobacco poisons? His Fox News and Wall Street Journal, and New York Daily Post, MySpace.com and 100 other Main Stream Media outlets have been sicced as attack dogs to stir up maximum trouble.
The Killer Koch Brothers, famously called “Organized Crime” by their own brother on national television, having received the largest ever criminal fine in the entire history of the USA, has mobilized by rented bus loads of thugs to move to places holding town hall meetings. Under the various front names of TEA BAG PARTY, Americans for Prosperity, or FreedomWorks, these racketeer billionaires have undertaken treason and sedition. It’s appropriate for sons of John Birch Society co-founder Fred Koch, that they engage in family tradition subversive conspiracy.
August 4th, 2009 at 3:56 pmTurkey@33, Really?? Using Progressive tactics? Repugs are far more likely to scream in your face than sensible debate. Just look at the McCain/Palin rallies. None of that ‘Come let’s be friends’ for those whack-jobs. When the people showed up with their Hitler signs and sceaming ‘Terrorist’ You kind of get the feeling that Independants and Democrats don’t belong. And don’t forget that SOB who brought the monkey doll and when he realized he was being filmed he gave it to a child! How honorable!
August 4th, 2009 at 3:56 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Didn’t there used to be ordinances in most municipalities entitled:
“Disturbing the Peace”
Please enforce.
August 4th, 2009 at 3:56 pmObviously these thugs do not have any respect for democracy.
August 4th, 2009 at 3:57 pmIt appears to me that the party of no is doing the same work as the taliban. They are doing the work of the terrorists. Would the terrorists be doing anymore to hurt the American people than the wingnuts are doing by trying to prevent change for the good of the American people? The wingers are nothing more than domestic terrorists and should be treated as such.
August 4th, 2009 at 3:58 pmIsn’t this a dangerous game for the Republicans? Sooner or later there may be a violent incident which will be caught on tape. Obama and Axelrod are presumably waiting for the right moment to pounce on these New Nazis; Americans know that this sort of thing is un-American.
August 4th, 2009 at 3:58 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
A caller on Ed Schultz,delayed broadcast, just stated:
A phone call came from a group claiming to represent her medicare and supplement said her medicare would be canceled if Obama’s health reform is passed.
Also, her phone number is unlisted ans she has no idea how these frauds found her number.
Just how did this group get her phone number?
August 4th, 2009 at 3:59 pmThey don’t have any respect for democracy or pride in themselves for acting like that.
August 4th, 2009 at 3:59 pmTurkey Bacon says:
They are just using Progressive tactics. The Left did this for years. Now the tables are turned. Alinsky’s tactics can be used against Progressives.
But…but Alinsky was a community organizer.
So now you’re embracing community organization?
By the way, how about an example that the left employed these tactics? Hmm?
August 4th, 2009 at 3:59 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Turkey Bacon says:
Remember Limbaugh, Baer and others on the right saying that Bill and Hillary had Vince Foster murdered?
August 4th, 2009 at 4:00 pmOr is your memory very selective?
most towns have ordinances against creating a public disturbance. cuff ‘em and stuff ‘em if they get out of hand. perhaps a run through the legal system and lawyer’s fees will cool their jets.
August 4th, 2009 at 4:01 pmThis is just disgusting. The right-wingers have no shame. They don’t want honest and open debate.
I would fight fire with fire. Send out liberal groups to Republican events. Shout-down the next ConPAC event. Shout-down the next “pro-life” event. Have people yelling “facists” and “Nazis”. Let’s see how they like this kind of barbarism.
August 4th, 2009 at 4:01 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Trajan, you good for nothing twit, please shut up.
August 4th, 2009 at 4:01 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Let’s capture some of these domestic terrorists and waterboard them to learn who they work for and how much they were paid.
August 4th, 2009 at 4:02 pmThey’ll cry like sissies.
turdkey bacon is still here? i thought by now he would have fled to the loving arms of townhall or free republic.
August 4th, 2009 at 4:02 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
from randi’s twitter page:
Please go because the “hired outrage” will be there.
Congressional Town Hall Meetings
http://www.cprights.org/townhalls.php
August 4th, 2009 at 4:03 pmIt makes sense now. Whenever a new word, like “socialist”, or name, like “Alinsky”, gets fed into the machine? A “new” sockpuppet pops out.
BTW, stupid troll, if “no one has read the Bill” and, indeed, it hasn’t been written yet; why are these people so incensed about draft legislation?
August 4th, 2009 at 4:03 pmWhat’s your point Turkey Bacon? Do us a favor and go back to little green freakballs. You’ll have a sympathetic audience there.
August 4th, 2009 at 4:04 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Turkey Bacon says:
Purple State,
The Nuclear Freeze movement of the 80’s, The harassment of people like Rumsfeld, the 9/11 truther protests. The anti-War protests of the 60’s. You must have selective memory.
You’re being vague.
August 4th, 2009 at 4:05 pmturdkey bacon,
August 4th, 2009 at 4:06 pmfor the love of god, you’ve been spewing the same trite bullshit for the past two hours. just stfu, will you?
Turkey Bacon says:
Will these people be arrested and confined to ‘Free Speech Zones’ then?
No?
Weird… seems that some ideas and politicians can stand up to scrutiny and dissent and some cannot, interesting.
August 4th, 2009 at 4:06 pmTurkey Bacon, I hope you have the honor to refuse to go on the public option if it is passed and implemented. It seems clear that you are against it, even though it might be cheaper than what you pay and you wouldn’t have to fall prey to the insurance company’s whim…
August 4th, 2009 at 4:06 pmTurkey@55, Rumsfield and his co-horts ARE criminals! They started the Iraq War on faulty intelligence and lied about it! Why is the truth so hard to accept! I, myself, was duped into the whole ‘Mushroom Cloud’ thing, and I feel terrible! I put my trust in Bush and his Administration only to find out that they pulled the biggest con on the American people in years. Why? Because of oil and a ‘Daddy Complex’? I will always feel badly for the deaths of all those innocent people. How about you?
August 4th, 2009 at 4:06 pmOh! I get it now TB. It’s IOKIYR.
August 4th, 2009 at 4:06 pmThanks for clearing that up.
I still haven’t been able to understand what these people have against health care reform… does anyone actually get it… do they?
-been a while since I’ve been here.. digging the “new” vote down button …and preview! (woo-hoo!)
August 4th, 2009 at 4:07 pmjoe cantwell,
August 4th, 2009 at 4:07 pmis the thirs thumbnails a picture of her crabs?
78…the right has always used that tactic of intimidation…to silence those whom they disagree with. Don’t act as if the right is completely innocent and is only trying to keep up with the Joneses…
August 4th, 2009 at 4:07 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
angry white GOP obstructionist crowd = same view as GOP convention floor every 4 years.
August 4th, 2009 at 4:07 pmHow about the AntiNukes protests of the 80’s?
So progressives were against nukes and killing Americans in unnecessary wars so they protested but the riech is protesting healthcare for Americans.
August 4th, 2009 at 4:08 pmLot of lies and craziness around right now about health insurance reform. The one I hate most is the one about how the Government is requiring you to report every five years how you want to die. Yeesh. No wonder the crazies are stirred up – there’s crazy everywhere nowadays.
http://obamalondon.blogspot.com/2009/08/health-care-facts-fiction-and-fury.html
Time to get busy, though – if there’s a town hall in your town, get there. We shouldn’t try to shout them down, though – how about trying to sing them down? Something fun and silly. If everone who wasn’t a raving loon broke into song at the same time it might confuse them into actually listening.
August 4th, 2009 at 4:08 pmso, turdkey bacon,
August 4th, 2009 at 4:09 pmcan you explain to the nice people why you’re cheering the breakdown of discourse and democracy in favor of a mob mentality?
666cicadas says:
August 4th, 2009 at 4:09 pmHey! Welcomeback! Where have you been?
Last weekend, the health insurance lobby announced that they will be sending staff to “confront” lawmakers at town halls and will be transitioning to negative ads.
Proves that titan health isn’t about making concessions and taking the politics out of the debate, they’re about keeping their interests dominate and killing off more people so CNBC has more upbeat twats parading their Q4 numbers.
August 4th, 2009 at 4:09 pmTalking to a Troll is like farting in the wind…
…make damn sure you’re standing downwind.
Trajan, Dumphuckistan is calling. Your lottery number came up.
Oh Oh!
August 4th, 2009 at 4:10 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Was there a documentary on Alinsky last night on Faux for Kids?
Do you think typing “Alinksy” gives Trajan the same kind of wood that typing “Soros” does?
August 4th, 2009 at 4:11 pmThis is an example of how our corporations work today. If they could just have a healthy discussion regarding the merits of their for-profit health care system they wouldn’t have to resort to childish rantings from stupid idiot geriatric automatons. But, since there are no merits of their for-profit health care system, you get what we have today; childish rantings from stupid idiot automatons. Old and young.
August 4th, 2009 at 4:12 pmSpeaking as an observer… my guess is because everything else they’ve tried has failed.
August 4th, 2009 at 4:13 pmTurkey Bacon says:
The Tactics of Communists and Nazis are now being adopted by the Right.
Now?
The right adopted them years ago… they’re sending them off to college now.
August 4th, 2009 at 4:13 pmTurkey Bacon says:
Mr. Cobb,
The problem with Health care is expenses. That is the issue that should be addressed. the 45 Million not covered is a hyped up number. Most are Illegals, Young people or the Rich. The way to bring down costs is to allow all plans to compete regardless of what state they originate.
The Progressive goal is to control health care so they can control people. It is a simple plan. Progressives pretend that they care in reality all you want is power.
Be honest about it.
so sayeth the slave to the whims of the health insurance companies…who control our health and dictate when we can get procedures done…
August 4th, 2009 at 4:13 pmAhh, Trajan’s been name-jacked… I get it.
August 4th, 2009 at 4:14 pmI would agree with you that people are employing the tactics of Alinsky at these meetings, TB…
…except that it’s not grassroot outrage. It’s manufactured.
But if you think you can overcome the agendas of a community organizer–a social role that the GOP once shot down–by developing outrage through community organization…by all means. Give it your best shot.
Me, I plan to attend my town meetings, and I am prepared to stand up to these fake demonstrations.
Care to join me? Or are you going to just “complain on a blog” like us?
August 4th, 2009 at 4:14 pmJim Wolf359,
Thanks! bit put-off by the trolls and in-fighting, but I figured it was worth another shot.. here’s to it!
August 4th, 2009 at 4:15 pmNo wonder the crazies are stirred up – there’s crazy everywhere nowadays.
It used to be funny but now it’s just pathetic. The reich needs some new material.
August 4th, 2009 at 4:15 pmThis will continue until someone pulls a gun.
August 4th, 2009 at 4:15 pmRefer to yesterday’s Dick Durbin post.
It will happen.
This comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Uh oh, I think JOHN KERRY is out and about.
August 4th, 2009 at 4:16 pmBozo The Neoclown says: #92
Because they have nothing better or anything else of substance to offer this country.
August 4th, 2009 at 4:16 pmSean Hannity (1961-2009) can’t live anymore because of a 3 percent soda tax!
Colbert will give the eulogy!
August 4th, 2009 at 4:16 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Turkey Bacon says;
August 4th, 2009 at 4:18 pmYou are as comical as you are stupid.
Scared? Of you and your’re whackjob friends on the right?
Get some help. You are very delusional.
Turkey Bacon, For the sake of all the good men and women who lost families in 9/11, please don’t play that card. There are over 1000 professionals: architects, civil engineers, structural engineers, mathematicians, physicists who say the official 9/11 report is very dubious and borderline impossible.
With that being said; yes, the so-called Progressives should use that term with caution if it describes the Neoliberal infestation of the Democratic Party. Others here have written that Democrats, Independents and Libertarians have attended these meetings. I only know about local protests in my area and they are in fact, mostly Republican but not exclusively Republican, with a significant percentage from other political affiliation.
The right to petition, freedom of speech is vital. I am happy that people are being vocal. The current health care proposal is not very good, but that doesn’t mean that we can’t have a good national health plan which does not entirely socialize medicine. The last thing this nation needs is a government coup of the health care system.
However, we also absolutely do not need Republican Neocons that have been paid by big insurance feeding us lies!
We (as in the real remaining Liberals) are all annoyed with the bail outs of Bush and Obama turning a blind eye towards the Federal Reserve.
August 4th, 2009 at 4:18 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
“The way to bring down costs is to allow all plans to compete regardless of what state they originate.”
Please point to any proof, whatsoever, that this will work…
“The Progressive goal is to control health care so they can control people. It is a simple plan. Progressives pretend that they care in reality all you want is power.”
i understand, that is the fear, but what is this based on, exactly?
August 4th, 2009 at 4:18 pmHmmm…Turkey Bacon. A dumb bird + a pig. Says it all.
August 4th, 2009 at 4:19 pmYou know…I prefer to think that these nuts are getting paid.
If they are for real, this country is in for some serious problems.
Why are they ALL WHITE?
August 4th, 2009 at 4:19 pmCan you spot the real ‘Turdkey Baked On’?
Win a ticket to an RNC meeting with the correct guess!
Hint: look for keyword ‘Alinsky’
August 4th, 2009 at 4:21 pmWhen did Rumsfeld ever hold a town hall meeting for a discussion with the American people?
August 4th, 2009 at 4:22 pmIf the GOP/corporate groups had a conscience they’d be ashamed of these people. Most of them look like they’re retired and on Medicare. I think it’s good that these crazy people are receiving attention because it truly exposes the level of crazy that the GOP has risen to. Their lunacy is on display for the world to see.
August 4th, 2009 at 4:23 pmTB #118 – Poopy heads? What are you, three years old?
August 4th, 2009 at 4:24 pmAny chance the Faux News coverage is biased and uses selective sampling ?
Basically, these idiots are telling people to interrupt govt. We are seeing the end of the people’s participation in govt.
August 4th, 2009 at 4:24 pmTurkey Bacon says:
Mr. Cobb,
The problem with Health care is expenses. That is the issue that should be addressed.
Why are expenses so much less for countries that cover so many more?
August 4th, 2009 at 4:29 pmCan you explain?
Turkey Bacon, while we certainly have no business using taxpayer dollars on health care for illegal immigrants, rising health care costs, insurance company greed and citizens without coverage are forcing us to react.
We either (a) have to put the hammer down on Lobbying, Insurance idustry collusion, insurance industry breach of contract by not paying customers for claims they are entitled
or (b) implement an alternative which is nationalized to keep the insurance mobsters in check by offering competition
I will have to call you Ostrich Bacon if you keep sticking your head in the sand.
August 4th, 2009 at 4:29 pmOh, and it’s worth remembering that Alinsky’s book was called Rules for Radicals.
August 4th, 2009 at 4:30 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Interesting how so many libertarians are being pushed so far away by the stench of conservatism that they’re starting to claim that they are the “true” liberals.
I guess that “liberal is a dirty word” thing has run its course.
August 4th, 2009 at 4:33 pmI’m not in favor of name-jacking, no matter how amusing it may be.
August 4th, 2009 at 4:34 pmRalph, I agree, but this parody was especially amusing! I know, I need to grow up…
PEACE
August 4th, 2009 at 4:35 pmTurkey Bacon says:
The Tactics of Communists and Nazis are now being adopted by the Right.
August 4th, 2009 at 4:09 pm
_________________
So you admit that conservatives are Nazis, then?
Cool. I’ll be sure to quote you on that. Frequently.
August 4th, 2009 at 4:35 pmTurkey Bacon says:
Tawdry, don’t be such a scared Alinksy, you scared progressive.
Comedy gold, coming from a “Save Us From Saddam”-ite.
Have you replaced your stained knickers yet?
August 4th, 2009 at 4:39 pmapparently Turkey Bacon has forgotten all the smears against Bill Clinton and now he wants to play victim? If there’s something the right is talented at it’s playing the victim card…Poor baby…oh honey, I hope you feel better!
August 4th, 2009 at 4:40 pmConfuse the Depends-wearing losers:
August 4th, 2009 at 4:43 pmSchedulde 10 different meetings around town at the same time of the day, then at the last moment cancel the meetings because concern for the safety of the law abliging citizens from the mob of Regressive Republicans!
Been there, done that.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389×6215784
Take pictures and post on the internet. Maybe we can get some identification and “out” these paid goons. This is not democracy in action. This is shameless anarchy, bought and paid for by Republican organizations.
August 4th, 2009 at 4:45 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Message to turkey bacon. This is what everyone thinks of you.
August 4th, 2009 at 4:48 pmIt’s the Birthers all over again. Only the slogans have changed.
August 4th, 2009 at 4:48 pmFor joe cantwell –Hope this helps everyone. Silver Fox
The line is http://www.booksbyoliver.com
August 4th, 2009 at 4:48 pmHe has no idea what you are talking about. In right-wing alternate reality, that never happened.
August 4th, 2009 at 4:51 pmNo, but we have the right to expect them to allow everyone else to have thier right of free speech exercised as well.
They are the ones denying free speech. They aren’t the only ones with rights.
What’s point 2 from the rnc memo?
August 4th, 2009 at 4:51 pmTB is not a concerned citizen so screw him.
August 4th, 2009 at 4:51 pmWow I guess if you can not make a reasoned argument about health care then you can always speak in tongues. That should do it!!!!! Cured!!!
These loons are destroying any “healthy” debate.
The health care industry must be really worried to silently sponsor this crap through their PACs. Good!!!!
August 4th, 2009 at 4:54 pmNo, but we have the right to expect them to allow everyone else to have thier right of free speech exercised as well
Precisely.
Hooliganism, terrorism, racism, fascism, lying, cheating, stealing, you name it.
Reality is stranger than fiction – republicanz have arrested development.
August 4th, 2009 at 4:55 pmAngry McAngus was around when the demonstrations to which Burkey Tacon refers happened. Yeah, we protested the War and the criminals behind it. And we got loud. That’s what will happen when thousands of people take to the streets.
But we also got arrested for disturbing the peace.
And that’s what should happen to these few dozen at each “meeting”.
August 4th, 2009 at 4:57 pmEveryone had the right to speak up (or shout out).
We do need to do away with that pesky 1st. Amendment though.
August 4th, 2009 at 4:58 pmThe powerful right-wing corporatists fear a prosperous, healthy population, so he has been told that to be free, the people must be kept poor and sick.
August 4th, 2009 at 5:02 pmmike48, do you always speak in paradox’s?
August 4th, 2009 at 5:03 pmSorry. A poor attempt of sarcasm to jay. My bad.
August 4th, 2009 at 5:03 pmWHY is there never a cop around when you need one?
A typical statutory definition of disorderly conduct, in this case Indiana’s, defines the offense in this way:
A person who recklessly, knowingly, or intentionally:
(1) engages in fighting or in tumultuous conduct;
August 4th, 2009 at 5:04 pm(2) makes unreasonable noise and continues to do so after being asked to stop; or
(3) disrupts a lawful assembly of persons;
Mike, I get it now. It’s sometimes hard to tell….
August 4th, 2009 at 5:05 pmI don’t think so.
August 4th, 2009 at 5:06 pmI think they should all be allowed to opt out of national healthcare if they don’t like it. They and their parents get no medicare, their kids get no state funded care. Their kids have to go to private schools, and they can’t drive on our roads, or attend any public events. Oh, wait, that would keep them from protesting their legislators’ events, wouldn’t it? Hmm.
August 4th, 2009 at 5:06 pmYa, this is a town meeting, not a protest, so there’s no comparison to a protest.
August 4th, 2009 at 5:06 pmMike, I got it. It made me smile. Thanks.
August 4th, 2009 at 5:09 pmThese “disrupters” – which should be called radical right-wing extremists at the very least- are so Anti-American they make me sick. If Gates was arrested in his own home for “disturbing the peace” simply for being upset & demanding police credentials, why aren’t these miserable, disruptive jerks who will not allow a public meeting to take place- why aren’t they cuffed & thrown in jail? This truly is an example of disturbing the peace, & much, much worse.
August 4th, 2009 at 5:10 pmDisruption of a town hall meeting is just mean spirited!
These are not concerned citizens. They are not people looking for a better nation. These are what we call trolls.
August 4th, 2009 at 5:10 pmIf these folks want to protest they can do so in the designated areas, same as always.
August 4th, 2009 at 5:12 pmThese people are domestic terrorists. That is what you should call them…what they are.
August 4th, 2009 at 5:13 pmBefore it is over you will find they are unemployed wingnuts being bused to the townhalls by healthcare advocates and they are being paid to disrupt meetings.
August 4th, 2009 at 5:14 pmThese people are domestic terrorists. That is what you should call them…what they are.
Indeed, some of them are quite terrifying, especially the ones on TV.
August 4th, 2009 at 5:15 pmnotice we americans dont protest the wars for profits like this
just health care for all
we are an imperialist nation
and a very selfish nation as long as our health care is ok the others can go to h………..ll
sad to be an american these days
we will learn the hard way but we will learn
but not until we arrive at third world status
gated communities and all that goes with that
now we have serious finance problems
go figure
August 4th, 2009 at 5:18 pmIf these folks want to protest they can do so in the designated areas, same as always
Maybe i should have said “in a public area” rather than “designated area”. I would point out that designated areas could be assigned at a suitable distance from the town hall meetings such that their shouting cannot be heard in the meeting. easy as pie.
August 4th, 2009 at 5:19 pmWhat I would like to know is why aren’t these people being removed from these town hall meetings. Are the Democrats afraid of them thinking they will say that they were squelching the protesters rights to free speech? I’m sorry, but disrupting a public event doesn’t reach the rights of free speech in my mind. What it doing is disrupting the rights of the people who came there to hear what the person had to say.
August 4th, 2009 at 5:21 pmOnce again the Republicans are trying to ‘game’ the system.
They can’t seem to come up ideas that people will vote for so this is all they have left.
August 4th, 2009 at 5:22 pmThe other thing they could do at the town hall meetings is use huge PA systems, and a tightly controlled microphone.
Either that or headphones could be issued to everyone.
Maybe the easiest would be for security to relocate shouting persons to outside the meeting room. They could do so in an orderly fasion, one by one until the shouting decreases to a tolerable level.
August 4th, 2009 at 5:26 pmCongress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
It seems to me that these town halls are for all the people and the rights of those people to be heard is defined in the Constitution. There was no violence so the proceedings were peaceful. Not along leftist party lines but peaceful.
It’s too bad that “Progressives” can’t see this but then again you people never could take an opposing view very well as is quite evident in the posts here on TP.
It seems that it has you all worried.
How long will this post last?
August 4th, 2009 at 5:26 pmBilbo Hussein Baggins says:
What I would like to know is why aren’t these people being removed from these town hall meetings. Are the Democrats afraid of them thinking they will say that they were squelching the protesters rights to free speech? I’m sorry, but disrupting a public event doesn’t reach the rights of free speech in my mind. What it doing is disrupting the rights of the people who came there to hear what the person had to say.
I think getting removed is exactly what they’re trying to accomplish. Just yelling at a town meeting won’t get them coverage anywhere but on Fox affiliates, but once they get dragged off in handcuffs it will be all over the local papers and television stations. They probably watched footage of the old Civil Rights protesters to develop their strategy. Don’t be surprised if they start chaining themselves up.
August 4th, 2009 at 5:27 pmjay says:
It seems to me that these town halls are for all the people and the rights of those people to be heard is defined in the Constitution.
Their rights to be heard are trampling all over the rights of other people to be heard as well. If they want to scream and holler like wild howling monkeys on their own meetings, fine.
August 4th, 2009 at 5:30 pmIt seems to me that these town halls are for all the people and the rights of those people to be heard is defined in the Constitution
But hardly anyone got to to be heard, because of the shouting disruptors. devil is in the details.
August 4th, 2009 at 5:31 pmBE CAREFUL OBAMA!! The last time Chuck Norris denied reality, it temporarily ceased to exist. Chuck Norris is after Obama….(seriously)…
August 4th, 2009 at 5:32 pmhttp://quearrozconmango.wordpress.com/2009/08/04/be-carefull-obama-the-last-time-chuck-norris-denied-reality-it-temporarily-ceased-to-exist/
Luis, no ones rights were trampled on. Everyone there had a voice. Some used theirs and others didn’t.
August 4th, 2009 at 5:33 pmMegaloptera McWars says:
Some people enjoy being followers in life, taking orders from people they don’t even know.
Read John Dean’s Conservatives Without Conscience. He describes these people quite well. Apparently the psychiatric community estimates at any given time at least 25% of Americans suffer from low self esteem problems. These people gravitate to an authority figure to tell them what to think and how to act because they don’t have the ego strength to do it themselves. These are the people who still call themselves Republics and who are birthers, tea baggers and people who are willing to disrupt in order to stop intelligent discourse.
What is so sad about the current GOP is that they have nothing to say. And since they have nothing to say they feel like they need to keep the other side from being able to say anything either. I could respect them if they had an intelligent cogent point of view to counter the Democrats point of views, but they don’t.
August 4th, 2009 at 5:35 pmThe funny this is, nobody heard anything anyone said – too many voices! Hehehehahah.
August 4th, 2009 at 5:37 pmjay says:
Luis, no ones rights were trampled on. Everyone there had a voice. Some used theirs and others didn’t.
No, some used their howling monkey voices and the others didn’t want the event to become a shouting match. So those people who didn’t want to get in a confrontation decided not to give their opinion.
It’s not censorship, but it’s not a civilized discussion either.
August 4th, 2009 at 5:40 pmIn America Republicanz are free to be hooligans, and the rest of us are free to use this as a teaching moment about Republicanz.
August 4th, 2009 at 5:41 pmIt’s not censorship, but it’s not a civilized discussion either
Ya, it’s a form of verbal terrorism.
August 4th, 2009 at 5:42 pmbtw jay, I’m voting you up, just so you don’t feel “censored” by the community.
August 4th, 2009 at 5:46 pmAugust 4th, 2009 at 5:47 pm
Someone should just get on a loudspeaker and announce that a Chevy pick-up is being towed. That would clear out the room of most of the fools.
August 4th, 2009 at 5:47 pmThanks Luis. A single voice in the wilderness.
It won’t matter though. This voting “up and down” thing doesn’t bother me. It was a matter of time here.
Thanks again though Luis. Your a man among the masses.
August 4th, 2009 at 5:50 pmHow about a petition at the door to END MEDICARE. It’s Government Run..probably even Socialistic.
Lets see if these Concerned Seniors will sign away their OWN Benefits.
August 4th, 2009 at 5:51 pmjay says:
Like you do here.
Say what? Where’s the comparison? If we start typing our comments IN ALL CAPS SO THAT IT LOOKS LIKE WE ARE SHOUTING, it won’t make your comments any less visible.
August 4th, 2009 at 5:51 pmTerrorism is a tactic designed to intimidate and change political will without the use of politics.
Any mechanism that can do this is a form of terrorism. Hooliganism and shouting down political views is a milder form of terrorism but the results are the same, and it’s cheap.
August 4th, 2009 at 5:54 pmgummble-bee-itch says:
I think getting removed is exactly what they’re trying to accomplish.
Unfortunately you are probably right. Perhaps the approach to take should be for the Democrat at the town hall to invite everyone who wants to yell up front to give it a go. And then ask them to then be quiet so that the remainder of the people in the town ball meeting can be heard. And if they start shouting after that, just stop talking and let them make fools out of themselves.
I understand why the attendees who support the Democrat aren’t fighting back because that would just play into their hands.
August 4th, 2009 at 5:57 pmPeople get upset Luis. It is their right to be heard and when their voices are muffled by the left then a little shouting is in order.
My prediction is that the Town Hall meetings will be flooded with leftist actavists holding anti Government signs so the media can film them and blame it on the citizens who are truly concerned about a Healthcare Plan that allows them to make their own decisions.
When your own Congressman says that he never reads the bills he votes for then a little shouting is in order. Don’t you think?
August 4th, 2009 at 5:58 pmThe day that there is no shouting in politics then that is the day of a one party Government. They don’t shout opposition in many countries in the world. Research which ones they are.
August 4th, 2009 at 6:04 pm“The Progressive goal is to control health care so they can control people. It is a simple plan. Progressives pretend that they care in reality all you want is power.”
Ok, we have had government “control” of health care for people over 65 for how many years now? And how are these old people being “controlled”.
August 4th, 2009 at 6:06 pmWhy, because that’s what the right would do? Name one instance of the left stooping to such lows.
You’re a moron.
August 4th, 2009 at 6:13 pmJay,
We had an election last year…and you guys LOST….Badly.
What I think you fear MOST is that those elected WIll SUCCEED to make things better for the average Working American…and then all your “Government Can’t Do anything Right” Rhetoric will fall into the Dustbin of History.
Instead of letting those who WON try it their Way…you support DISRUPTION and INACTION.
I smell FEAR.
August 4th, 2009 at 6:13 pmAs I told my father, who is a right-wing, FOX listening, anti-insurance reform Republican. I just want the same medical coverage he has, including the right to buy additional gap insurance. He, and it appears, most of those protesting, is on Medicare. Must be nice.
A young man who works for the same company I do pays $1,200 per month for insurance for him and his family, including pretty serious deductibles. Is this what those screamers in that video think is a system that works? A system where a hospital charges $50 for a procedure to someone with insurance, but $200 for the exact same procedure to someone without insurance. This is a good system?
With the rate at which Baby-boomers are aging, almost half of the country will be on Medicare in the next 10 years or so anyway, let’s just make it official, while fixing the Medicare system.
August 4th, 2009 at 6:17 pmFred ——————————————————————————–
Just a prediction Fred.
The name calling is uncalled for. I don’t usually do that sort of thing but so be it.
August 4th, 2009 at 6:17 pmI support the Constitution of The United States only. I could care less about all the nonsense. I have one vote and one voice. You believe what you want. I don’t care.
August 4th, 2009 at 6:19 pmYou didn’t answer my question I see. Why?
August 4th, 2009 at 6:20 pmJay, just keep repeating “disruption” and “interference” of the freedom of speech. remember we are all on the same side, it’s just that some of us are terribly confused.
August 4th, 2009 at 6:23 pmJay, I just expressed my opinion in a way similar to the way you say the teabaggers are expressing thiers and you tell me that I should accept thier behavior. Yet you condemned me for it.
you guys don’t get irony.
August 4th, 2009 at 6:26 pmThe memo went out from the Republianz – disrupt, interfere, intimidate. That’s Republicanz at work for Republicanz. that’s so mean spirited it’s shameful.
August 4th, 2009 at 6:26 pmHave the Police there and don’t back down.
I was at a Town Hall meeting on Saturday in Bastrop, Texas where our good Congressman Lloyd Doggett was attacked by an unruly bunch of Republican thugs. They tried to shout Lloyd down and scared some of the children in the audience so bad they started crying and their parents had to take them out of the building. However, this was not just a bunch of peaceful Democrats and some responded and the only thing that keep a bunch of Republicans from getting their asses kicked was good work by the Bastrop police department.
No bunch of thugs is going stop my Congressman from having a civil discussion with the people. Oh and another observation – based on the age and lard asses on the so called protestors, they better hope they have some good insurance. I am sure none of those morons will pass up anything the government gives them. They just don’t want anyone else to have good coverage and they want their masters in Health Care and Big Pharma to keep living large for some unknown reason.
August 4th, 2009 at 6:27 pmThis voting thing is childish. I never use it. If someone takes the time to post something then he should be heard.
It’s a kids game that means nothing. I go to the voted down posts first just to see what you are afraid of. I think it draws more attention to the posts than not.
Most post here are dumb on both sides. Every now and then there is a post that has merit but not often.
August 4th, 2009 at 6:28 pmFred, answering direct questions isn’t jay’s thing. Never has been.
August 4th, 2009 at 6:28 pmand it’s never one of your’s
August 4th, 2009 at 6:30 pmHey Ralph, I’m getting a kick out of using this irony thing. They just really don’t get it do they?
I wonder if it’s lack of education or maybe the ability to just basically think for themselves.
August 4th, 2009 at 6:32 pmI go to the voted down posts first just to see what you are afraid of. I think it draws more attention to the posts than not
And you know what most of us think about those comments too, so you should understand where we are coming from, and you may have a teaching moment. you do still have those don’t you bud?
August 4th, 2009 at 6:33 pmThat’s your choice.
That’s a nice sentiment, but after a while is revealed as hopelessly naive and simplistic. There are frequent posts from infantile trolls that are clearly designed to do nothing but disrupt and provoke — and not in a good way. There used to be more of them, but the new system seems to take some of the Red Bull out of their bloodstream and they don’t hang around as long or as often.
Interesting that you assume we’re “afraid” of anything that is disposed of by the community voice, yet is still available for you to go to. Seems if fear of something were the true motivator, the posts would be deleted like they do at redstate.
Perhaps it’s not fear. Perhaps it’s a lack of patience with stupidity.
August 4th, 2009 at 6:35 pmI didn’t condemn you for anything Luis. I sometimes use the term “you people” or “you” genericly. Sorry for that. I didn’t mean any disrespect by it.
I’m not one of “you guys” (I suppose you are using the term the same way I did).
I’m a Constitutionalist. I’m only concerned with things as they are defined by the Constitution. I’m neither left or right.
August 4th, 2009 at 6:36 pmcaller to randi earlier (had a break to take grandpuppy to vet)
talked about townhall that she participated in… one woman
was telling about her stricken child and a man yelled out,
“THAT’S NOT MY PROBLEM!”
another man was worried about having just lost his job, again,
“THAT’S NOT MY PROBLEM!”
… really… what is this “christian” thing i hear so much about?
it’s a very ugly new brand, for sure…
August 4th, 2009 at 6:37 pmJay, it’s a democratic values check – nothing to fear here, but plenty to see if you look.
August 4th, 2009 at 6:38 pmHiding a post means that it contains something you don’t want to look at. Usually it’s an opposing view.
Childish in my opinion.
As far as the “redstate” is concerned, I wouldn’t know. Never been there.
I don’t condone any removal of anyones opinion by anyone.
August 4th, 2009 at 6:43 pmkaty, I’m not sure the right can pull this protesting thing off. It requires thinking and thinking on your feet. Without someone to tell them what to think and say I believe they will sooner or later shoot themselves in the foot.
August 4th, 2009 at 6:45 pmI’m not new here. I’ve been around for quite some time. I know where people here are comming from. I don’t usually get involved in the nonsense unless it has something to do with the Constitution. Not any more. All other comments are futile in such discussions or on site like this.
August 4th, 2009 at 6:47 pmJay, do you have anthing relevant to say about anything?
Answer my question at 205.
August 4th, 2009 at 6:47 pmMy relevant post is at #183.
My answer to 205 was #208.
August 4th, 2009 at 6:51 pmJay, so you just pulled it out of your butt. You don’t have any real reason to think that something like that might happen, you just wanted to “pretend” that it might. That about it?
August 4th, 2009 at 6:55 pmjay says:
My relevant comment is at #77…
Why can’t they debate health care on the merits, I wonder?
August 4th, 2009 at 6:55 pmIf you say so but It’s not my post #77.
August 4th, 2009 at 6:58 pmyou mean wild speculation don’t you jay? not a theory. Theories require data.
August 4th, 2009 at 6:58 pmIf you say so but It’s not my post #77.
No- but you’d also like to pretend that this is just like ‘leftist’ activists of yore… except that no one is herding them into ‘free speech zones’ away from the candidates and arresting them if they are too vocal.
That did happen during Bush’s administration… seems like some politicians and policies can stand up to a little scrutiny and some can’t… doesn’t it?
August 4th, 2009 at 7:01 pmSorry Fred. You can’t antagonize me with your nonsense.
I’m a grownup. I’ve been around awhile and lived through 10 Presidents and their politics and I’m working on number 11.
August 4th, 2009 at 7:02 pmIf you say so. OBTW Bush is gone. I don’t pretend anything. How about you?
August 4th, 2009 at 7:05 pmIf you say so. OBTW Bush is gone. I don’t pretend anything. How about you?
Okay, jay. Whatever you say. OBTW- Universal Health Care is coming and you can either join the discussion or not. Up to you.
August 4th, 2009 at 7:08 pmHow does this translate into “what you are afraid of”?
I don’t want to look at my neighbor doing the dishes. Doesn’t mean I’m afraid of her.
August 4th, 2009 at 7:09 pmIt seems that post # 183 quoting the Constitution will be voted into oblivion soon. (-8) right now.
It seems that the Constitution is feared here for some reason.
August 4th, 2009 at 7:11 pm… seems like some politicians and policies can stand up to a little scrutiny and some can’t… doesn’t it?
Very true!
I suggest that here-forth town hall meetings should set aside an extra hour for disruptive, unruly shouters to express their views. Call it the hooligan hour. It will take that long because they mostly all shout out at the same time, but the community will be served by hearing all it’s citizen’s views, including the extreme views. Once they are satisfied that they have indeed been heard, perhaps they will allow others to speak.
August 4th, 2009 at 7:11 pmA grownup would never have implied that the left might create disturbances at democratic meetings so they could blame it on the right.
The right will and has stooped to this level. My question was why would you make such an assersion and this is your response.
You may be old, I’m old but you can’t just blog nonesense and then try to claim the high ground to keep from explaining your nonesense.
That’s childish.
August 4th, 2009 at 7:11 pmTold ya, Fred. Ya can’t antagonize jay “with your nonsense” nor can you get a straight answer out of him.
It’s a game he likes to play.
(And he calls the vote up/vote down buttons “childish”…)
August 4th, 2009 at 7:13 pmIt seems that post # 183 quoting the Constitution will be voted into oblivion soon. (-8) right now.
It seems that the Constitution is feared here for some reason
No Jay, It’s a measure of how twisted a posting is. you can still read it.
August 4th, 2009 at 7:13 pmOnly you can answer that one ralph.
August 4th, 2009 at 7:13 pmIt seems that the Constitution is feared here for some reason.
Hmm, I wonder why you say that. Do you believe it?
Really?
Or could it be that people are reacting to your characterization of ‘Progressives’ as being afraid of opposing views? Care to talk about your opposing views re: Health Care?
Or would you prefer to talk about non-issues like people being ‘afraid of the Constitution?’
I don’t pretend, jay. How about you?
August 4th, 2009 at 7:16 pm243 jay says:
he answered it, you just didn’t recognize as much.
August 4th, 2009 at 7:16 pmTell me how a persons opinion is twisted.
Oh, I mentioned what goes on here. I guess you could call that twisted.
So it was the opinion that you don’t like? My bad. Ha Ha.
August 4th, 2009 at 7:17 pmWow. That’s only a little arrogant. Not to mention self-serving and maybe even delusional.
Of course it’s the Constitution that people fear and vote down. It couldn’t be jay’s personal commentary that draws negative responses, could it? I mean, when people vote down a post that contains a passage from the Constitution and follows it with “you people never could take an opposing view very well”, then it’s only reasonable to assume that it’s the Constitution that people don’t like.
And of course we must be voting it down because we fear it, not because it lies there like a squishy mess of dog poo on the carpet and adds nothing worthwhile to the conversation.
I’m afraid jay has caught on, folks. He’s way too insightful for us. It’s fear that drives us progressives.
Oh wait — I’ve got that wrong.
August 4th, 2009 at 7:21 pmMaybe you’re right. But I can read and I do see how posters are treated here. “Pro and Con”
I also know the history of the “Progressive” movement.
Nothing personal but you believe what you believe. It’s allowed under our Constitution.
August 4th, 2009 at 7:23 pmUtterly predictable.
Hey guys, do you know how to get jay to dodge a direct question?
Ask him one.
Works like a charm, every time. Try it.
August 4th, 2009 at 7:23 pmYou’re right Ralph. This one is just worm food.
August 4th, 2009 at 7:24 pmMaybe you’re right. But I can read and I do see how posters are treated here. “Pro and Con”
I also know the history of the “Progressive” movement.
Nothing personal but you believe what you believe. It’s allowed under our Constitution.
I take it you’d prefer to talk about the non-issues then? Got it.
August 4th, 2009 at 7:25 pmSorry ralph. I don’t really care about the nonsense.
Vote “up” vote “down” so what.
August 4th, 2009 at 7:26 pmRay if you get negative votes do not take it personally. It is an opinion of the validity of your post, that’s all. to understand why it’s not valid consult the arguments that are presented against it. that’s it. It works great for concerned citizens.
August 4th, 2009 at 7:29 pmIt won’t work. I said what I had to say. This thread isn’t about Healthcare, it’s about people exercising their rights to free speech. Can’t change the subject, it’s not allowed here.
You do like to try to put words in other peoples mouths don’t you?
Amusing.
August 4th, 2009 at 7:29 pmSo jay, you post your thoughts. Can I ask why?
Do you percieve yourself to be a sacred holder of the truth or something?
I mean, you don’t discuss. You just lecture and condemn and refuse any decent request to clarify your statemnets. I think you must be a diety.
August 4th, 2009 at 7:30 pmIt’s jay and I don’t really care. I don’t take anything personally here. I understand where it comes from.
I’m not a newbee here.
August 4th, 2009 at 7:32 pmIt won’t work. I said what I had to say. This thread isn’t about Healthcare, it’s about people exercising their rights to free speech.
And people ALL have a right to free speech. What they are shouting down, and what you are studiously avoiding, is discussion of Health Care Reform.
I agree… they have a right to free speech.
I don’t think they should be put in ‘Free Speech Zones’ or arrested. But that isn’t happening, is it?
I do think they should be challenged to come up with an argument that is more than jingoistic sloganeering and shouting. But based on your (non) responses that doesn’t seem likely either.
Depressing.
August 4th, 2009 at 7:36 pmI posted my views already. Discussion is a waste of time here. Nothing I would ever have to say would be accepted here. This is not a discussion site. I can read.
“Sacred holder of the truth” funny.
I would say that the Constitution is the sacred document of the country. I try to live by it so anything you have to say is just fine by me. I don’t play the childish games.
Sorry.
August 4th, 2009 at 7:38 pmJay, do you understand the difference between meaningful protest, and a mean spirited disruption of a meeting being held to faccilitate reasoned discourse?
August 4th, 2009 at 7:38 pmjay, you sure are long winded for a man that’s said his peace… if you aren’t interested in discussion, why are you here?
August 4th, 2009 at 7:40 pmray, you keep saying you don’t play the childish games while you are playing a childish game.
You seem like you might be on some kind of medication that is slowing you down. Maybe you should just get some sleep.
August 4th, 2009 at 7:41 pmBelieve me, I understand just where you are comming from.
I’m not here to change the world. I’m here for the entertainment and to pass some time. How about you? Why are you here?
August 4th, 2009 at 7:44 pmSure. Do you understand that the 1st Amendment of the Constitution gives people the right to do what they did?
August 4th, 2009 at 7:47 pmWhat they did was criminal and against the law and had nothing to do with thier 1st amendment rights.
August 4th, 2009 at 7:49 pmjay just wants to curse out some durn libruls:
August 4th, 2009 at 7:53 pm
Is that opinion or a fact?
I differ with your opinion. Yelling in a public forum is not criminal.
It took more than 10 years to write the Constitution. There was constant yelling in Congress when discussing it on the floor and in chambers. The yelling continued for another year or so until it was ratified.
People have the right to express themselves to the Government. Yelling is not criminal.
August 4th, 2009 at 7:59 pmjay, under the circumstances this is disturbing the peace.
August 4th, 2009 at 8:00 pmI like it. Thanks.
August 4th, 2009 at 8:01 pmYou’re welcome, jay. Always good to spot a troll.
August 4th, 2009 at 8:02 pmWhat jay, turkey-squat and every other neocon jackhole posting here doesn’t admit is that every white-wing website out there BANS any poster writing a dissenting opinion. But you don’t hear them talking about that. No, they come here to “fight” with us “evil” libruls for having the gall to criticise them and their dipshit “townhall,insurance-company operatives”. I swear, if that pathetic crew of NAZIS take over the country again, I am going to canada.
August 4th, 2009 at 8:03 pmIn your opinion. Acording to the Constitution it is free speech.
An open forum for the citizens of the United States give all the right to voice their opinions regardless of the volume of their speech.
August 4th, 2009 at 8:04 pmI’m sure you see things that way. I’m not fighting with anyone here.
August 4th, 2009 at 8:06 pmI don’t understand.
If a liberal even asks a question without being called on at a republican town hall meeting, they’re escorted out by security.
Don’t democrats have security too?
Who cares what it looks like on television. Just start escorting these scumbags out.
And if they resist, arrest them.
August 4th, 2009 at 8:07 pmI have to agree with Jay here.
The Constitution guarantees the wingnutz right to make asses out of themselves in public.
They can scream until they turn purple and soil their depends, but it won’t give them anymore credibility.
Do go on Jay.
August 4th, 2009 at 8:13 pmI’m still waiting for you to answer the question that I asked 5 months ago. You ask questions but never answer any either.
Kiddy stuff.
August 4th, 2009 at 8:13 pmJohnny, the same Constitution protects everyone.
Left and Right and in between.
August 4th, 2009 at 8:16 pmIf you people knew how to think for yourselves you might actually open your eyes, stop believing everything you read and hear, and understand that you are being used and abused by this government AND all of the money that surrounds it. What do you do instead? You act like thugs and children, threatening and whining, letting someone lead you around by the nose. Do your homework, learn about your country, and shut up about things you obviously have no clue about – such as the validity of what you are reading on this site. Prove you have a brain. Stop being sheep. Wake up and realize you are being lied to by your savior Barack Obama, and everyone around him. Wake up and realize they are not trying to help you. Please – do the research.
August 4th, 2009 at 8:16 pmI’m still waiting for you to answer the question that I asked 5 months ago. You ask questions but never answer any either.
Kiddy stuff.
Like saying, ‘I know you are, but what am i?”
That kind of kiddy stuff?
‘Cause I agree- what you’ve been posting is pretty immature, jay.
August 4th, 2009 at 8:17 pmjay, i think the question that this amounts to disturbing the peace or not can easily be researched.
The fact remains that more people were deprived of their opportunity to speak by these actions, and many more were intimidated into submission. the spirit of the amendment has been breached.
August 4th, 2009 at 8:17 pmsegm1, you’ve done it now. I say you will be instantly voted down on that one or banned. Ha Ha.
August 4th, 2009 at 8:19 pmWake up and realize they are not trying to help you. Please – do the research.
I keep hearing about this ‘research’ stuff… where are you getting it, I wonder?
‘Cause when I look stuff up and read it (that’s what I call research) it almost always directly contradicts whatever people who are telling me to ‘do the research’ are saying… it’s weird.
August 4th, 2009 at 8:20 pmOh well. Free speech does not seem to matter much now days, so it would not surprise me.
August 4th, 2009 at 8:20 pmsegm1 says:
Oh well. Free speech does not seem to matter much now days, so it would not surprise me.
What do you mean by this?
Are the protester’s being arrested or confined to ‘Free Speech Zones’ these days?
No, they are not. As jay so kindly reminded us, Bush is gone now, OBTW do you have an argument against Universal Health Care or just an imagined one in favor of ‘research?’
August 4th, 2009 at 8:25 pmIn your opinion, you mean. “the spirit of the amendment has been breached”. Funny. Only the SCOTUS can judge “the spirit of the amendment” . That is also in the Constitution.
August 4th, 2009 at 8:25 pmsegm1 is kinda like a mirror. Deflect everything right back but in reverse. hey segm1, did you vote for the busch-cheney-haliburton-blackwater [these are not your friends] – torture, murder, prison camps, intimidation – i will go on if you like – ? did you?
August 4th, 2009 at 8:25 pmLess than 1 minute. Ha Ha.
“Spirit of the amendment”. Amusing.
August 4th, 2009 at 8:29 pmHealthcare reform is simply about putting our health solely in the hands of the government, belaccifer lacca. Where do I get that argument? From pages 15, 22, 24, 30, 37, 42, and on and on from H.R. 3200, the bill itself. Have you read it?
As for Freedom of Speech, there is a lot of stifling being promoted within this very comment thread.
August 4th, 2009 at 8:30 pmjay, i think the question that this amounts to disturbing the peace or not can easily be researched.
The fact remains that more people were deprived of their opportunity to speak by these actions, and many more were intimidated into submission. these are the knowable facts.
August 4th, 2009 at 8:30 pmOf course you do belaccifer lacca. :)
August 4th, 2009 at 8:32 pmApe Man – I did not vote for Bush. I am not a Republican. I am simply an American worried about her country. I wanted the chance to debate with the people I disagree with, hopefully without too much temper involved.
August 4th, 2009 at 8:33 pmDon’t give up segm1 – there’s more good people than bad.
August 4th, 2009 at 8:35 pmBack up your comment. You keep saying it’s a fact but so far you haven’t backed up anything.
How many were intimidated, (other than the politicians)?
How many were deprived?
August 4th, 2009 at 8:35 pmI don’t bite segm1.
August 4th, 2009 at 8:36 pmFrankly i would have been interested in hearing what the right wingers had to say, but the hooligans ruined it for everyone.
August 4th, 2009 at 8:37 pmHealthcare reform is simply about putting our health solely in the hands of the government, belaccifer lacca.
Hmm, I wonder why you think this horrible? Every other industrialized nation in the world is able to provide universal coverage and do for less than we pay per capita… how is that possible, I wonder?
August 4th, 2009 at 8:38 pmHave you ever lived in one of those countries?
August 4th, 2009 at 8:41 pmBack up your comment. You keep saying it’s a fact but so far you haven’t backed up anything
OK
segm1:
I am simply an American worried about her country. I wanted the chance to debate with the people I disagree with, hopefully without too much temper involved
That’s just a start! let’s find more examples shall we?
August 4th, 2009 at 8:42 pmHave you ever lived in one of those countries?
Nope- but I’ve ‘done the research.’
Is this where you tell me about your sister’s cousin’s boyfriend who once stubbed his toe in Amsterdam and had to wait TWO YEARS to get a band-aid? ‘Cause I’ve heard that one- it don’t scare me.
August 4th, 2009 at 8:43 pmbelaccifer lacca says:
They might provide it, but is it successful? I think you will find the answer to be “no” except when talking about small countries.
Do you think the government has any business in your healthcare? Beyond that, do you think they have a legal right to be involved? If you want to live in a country that controls you, there are many out there to choose from. Me – I want my country and the people to stand up and shoow some character. We do not need the government to be our nannies, nor do we deserve it. We are better than that.
August 4th, 2009 at 8:44 pmWell, if you didn’t want temper involved, why did you try to bait the posters here with this?
Or this?
Or this?
August 4th, 2009 at 8:45 pm
Well segm1, what town hall meeting were you at? I’d like to talk to you about it. No hassel, just questions.
August 4th, 2009 at 8:46 pmhttp://www.jhsph.edu/publichealthnews/press_releases/2005/anderson_healthspending.html
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1447687&rendertype=table&id=t1
Why are our infant mortality rates and costs higher, but our customer satisfaction and life expectancy lower than those other countries?
It’s a puzzle…
August 4th, 2009 at 8:49 pmTrollspotter says:
Because sometimes it is so frustrating to come across a site like this, know it is filled with lies, and then read so many comments that are filled with hate and threats based on those lies. It just gets old and I lash out. Granted, it was not a comment conducive to debate, but sometimes I want to shake you all and wake you up so that you will SEE and KNOW what is being done to YOU, to all of us.
I apologize.
August 4th, 2009 at 8:51 pmYou just proved her comments were valid. So funny.
One of your “OH YA” moments.
August 4th, 2009 at 8:52 pmThey might provide it, but is it successful? I think you will find the answer to be “no” except when talking about small countries.
See Above… it is successful. Markedly so. Do the research.
Do you think the government has any business in your healthcare? Beyond that, do you think they have a legal right to be involved? If you want to live in a country that controls you, there are many out there to choose from.
Yes. Yes. And that does not follow.
Does France ‘control you?’ How about Germany? Do the research… people are happier with their health care in these countries.
Why is Health Care a for-profit enterprise? Don’t we all have a common interest in having healthy citizens?
August 4th, 2009 at 8:53 pmjay says:
My rep refuses to hold townhalls other than on the phone, but I did attend one recently with a friend from another district. There was shouting from every side of the healthcare reform issue, not just against it. No one was really being listened to because the rep seemed to have a script he was hell-bent on sticking to. I don’t think he heard ANYONE. The meeting felt like a propaganda opportunity.
August 4th, 2009 at 8:57 pmsegm1 – let’s start with any lies related to the town hall meeting disruptions – any lies here?
August 4th, 2009 at 8:59 pmAll right, apology accepted–from me, anyway–and I understand it can be frustrating to feel like you’re fighting the tide. But instead of lashing out, if you simply advance your arguments calmly and logically and you actually listen to the responses you get, you’re more likely to get the result you want.
And, if you don’t mind my saying so, taking the default position that everyone who disagrees with you here is a hateful, threatening liar may be comforting to you, but it probably isn’t the best way to reach people whose minds you hope to change.
August 4th, 2009 at 9:03 pmHow so?
August 4th, 2009 at 9:05 pmThanks. It seems that both sides were yelling and the Politician was reading from a script.
I would say that your comment disproves Ape-man’s attempt to use you as an example for his fact gathering.
August 4th, 2009 at 9:05 pmIn every way. You did your critique on her and it was meant to intimidate her. I see it worked.
August 4th, 2009 at 9:08 pmLie in the article –
I do not not know one person who is involved in this or who has ever been approached. I attend these meet and greets, town halls, etc., on my own, with my own comments and questions, and so do the people who surround me. They are astonished and angry over this rumor. It could be happening somewhere, I suppose, but I have never witnessed anything like what was written in the article, so in my group of friends and supporters, the above article is a lie. We are just people who are trying to stop something we feel is dangerous to our Republic.
What have you seen?
August 4th, 2009 at 9:09 pmWhat have you seen?
http://www.myfoxhouston.com/dpp/health/090803_health_care_meeting
From Fox and Texas, a two-fer… (so you don’t accuse me of bias)
August 4th, 2009 at 9:12 pmIn every way. You did your critique on her and it was meant to intimidate her. I see it worked.
segm1 apologized and Trollspotter accepted and then they had a further dialog… respectfully.
That’s kind of a good example of HOW TO HAVE A RESPCTFUL CONVERSATION on the internet, why do you think it’s ‘intimidation,’ I wonder?
August 4th, 2009 at 9:13 pmWrong Jay, i said they were disrupting everyone, including right wingers that i was interested in hearing.
August 4th, 2009 at 9:14 pmWhat kind of idiots go out and publicly yell teabaggin lies.
They are the party of “NO” and they are yelling like flaming idiots “NO” about made up, proven bs.
All I see are racist old white ignorant people acting like the klan.
August 4th, 2009 at 9:15 pmIt’s disturbing the peace of the right wingers Jay, and it makes the right wingers look stupid.
August 4th, 2009 at 9:16 pmShe said she didn’t want to inject too much temper into the debate, I asked her about her opening comments, she acknowledged that she had lashed out in them and graciously apologized.
Where on Earth do you get “intimidation” out of that exchange?
August 4th, 2009 at 9:16 pmbelaccifer lacca, that does not mean any group is putting people up to the disruptions, it only shows that people are furious and scared. The number one reason people lash out in anger is fear – basic psych. No one needs to corral us or tell us what to say. We already know what we are angry about and what we fear.
August 4th, 2009 at 9:17 pmWhen the real people speak out, it seems you guys really complain, would you, Harry, Nancy & Obama like some cheese with that whine?
August 4th, 2009 at 9:18 pmWhen wing nuts sabotage town hall meeting they sabotage the voice of right wingers along with the rest of us, but the right wingers also get the blame for the disruption.
August 4th, 2009 at 9:19 pmbelaccifer lacca, that does not mean any group is putting people up to the disruptions, it only shows that people are furious and scared. The number one reason people lash out in anger is fear – basic psych. No one needs to corral us or tell us what to say. We already know what we are angry about and what we fear.
Then tell me.
What do you fear?
And actually it does mention that several people came from OUTSIDE the district merely to mock the congressman and disrupt the meeting… by their own admission.
August 4th, 2009 at 9:21 pmOh, and Trollspotter, thank you.
August 4th, 2009 at 9:22 pmWhen the real people speak out, it seems you guys really complain, would you, Harry, Nancy & Obama like some cheese with that whine?
Where are the ‘Free Speech Zones?’ Oh, they don’t need them… that was Bush’s thing.
It seems that these Representatives are willing to face the criticism and critics… some policies and politicians will stand close scrutiny it seems… what does that say about Bush?
August 4th, 2009 at 9:24 pm312 segm1
I have never seen President Obama’s birth certificate.
In my group of friends and supporters, the assumption that Barack Hussein Obama is a USA citizen is a lie.
/snark off
August 4th, 2009 at 9:25 pmI would like to take another look at the Thuglicanz that are apparently responsible for encouraging disruptive behavior…
anyone have the details handy to post?
If so, this is a stupid tactic. The Thuglicanz are getting all the blame, and rightly so. but the right wing message is getting shouted over as well.
August 4th, 2009 at 9:25 pmI saw pretty much the same thing as you did. I didn’t see any busses or organizers, just citizens.
I saw people who knew more about the bill than the politicians. I didn’t hear them answer any questions though.
August 4th, 2009 at 9:25 pmYou’re welcome, segm1. Thanks for the nice exchange.
Have a good night, everyone.
August 4th, 2009 at 9:26 pmI saw people who knew more about the bill than the politicians. I didn’t hear them answer any questions though.
What specifically in the bill disturbs you?
I keep asking…
August 4th, 2009 at 9:26 pmHow does post # 316 look to you?
August 4th, 2009 at 9:29 pmI fear the end of the Constitution. I fear the takeover of my country by a government that is out of control fiscally, and the people following them with their hands out. I fear that entirely too many of the people of this country have been lied to for so long by so many, told the things that are meant to keep them down, and against their fellow citizens, and that we will continue to fight amongst ourselves instead of fighting against those politicians who do not give a crap about us. I fear the end of a great country that used to want its citizens to be great, too. I still want that.
August 4th, 2009 at 9:30 pmsegm1 says:
Okay. But that really doesn’t make an argument against universal coverage, does it?
I’m against all those things too.
I’m for Universal Coverage. ’cause it’s cheaper, better and it works. See my links above.
August 4th, 2009 at 9:32 pmHeh. Maybe if the politicians actually read the bill they will be able to answer a few questions.
Thank you all for the debate. I appreciate your time and effort. Good night all. And do your homework!
August 4th, 2009 at 9:36 pmI object to most of the bill. I mainly object to the cost of the program. I think the country is too far in debt already.
I’m all for healthcare for every citizen. If you think that 50 million people are uninsured (I think it is a much lower number) then why not concentrate on those people instead of changing things for those who like what they already have. (let them pay for their own healthcare) It would cost soooo much less than the current bill.
I also believe that this bill is a foot in the door for a single payer plan. I have lived in three countries with Nationalized health care. It’s not what it’s cracked up to be. One country now lets it’s citizens buy a private option.
One thing I can tell you, in two of those countries, if you’re not a citizen you are not covered. You will get care but the cost is out of this world. I didn’t like the waiting list either.
August 4th, 2009 at 9:39 pmHAHAHAHAHAHA
“Bait the posters”
HAHAHAHAHAHA
Get real fool, you stupid teabaggin teabagers had disruptive rules in place before your staged protesting.
It looks like the repug protesters could have a heart attack.
Say No to IDiOtS@@
August 4th, 2009 at 9:41 pmThanks everyone. I have to go, work to do.
See ya, luv ya all.
August 4th, 2009 at 9:49 pmjay says:
Thanks everyone. I have to go, work to do.
__________
Picking up bottles and cans along side the freeway?
August 4th, 2009 at 9:58 pmThe Republican party has been taken over by fascists. They are not interested in debate, they are only interested in getting out their own paranoid talking points and not allowing anyone with a different viewpoint to speak. These people are modern day Brown Shirts, encouraged by a political party that now consists of a racist white underclass interested only in installing a regime of Christian totalitarianism. The Democratic leadership needs to hold the Republican leadership accountable for this unpatriotic breakdown of order in their party. Americans died in WWII fighting the same brand of fascism in Europe. We can’t allow these people to plunge the United States of America into chaos.
August 4th, 2009 at 10:12 pmIt’s been reported that this year’s tax revenues will be the lowest since 1934, yet our administration is proposing some of the largest spending bills seen in recent years (health care reform, cap and trade, bank bailouts, etc, etc.) Am I a “stupid teabagger” just because I’m a Democrat who strongly disagrees with this runaway spending? I must live within my budget and I feel the goverment should do the same. Simply put, we just can’t afford this right now.
August 4th, 2009 at 10:13 pmWhat is the matter sema? Are you frozen in time?
What it’s it to you?
\\Keep your prized health insurance. WE DON’T CARE.. Ya got it.
This is HEALTH REFORM. You do what you want and the sane people will “CHOOSE” what they want. Dumbasses.
Ya dumbass questions have been asked and repeatedly answered.
You look like fat bright white idiots yelling the same old bs. It’s strange, rude and stinky. Fun-nee.
The south will NOT rise again. Tt stunk then and it stinks now. SHAME!
Believe in the US.
August 4th, 2009 at 10:15 pmNavy60, do you know when the UK instituted its National Health Service?
It was in 1948.
That’s right. 1948.
In the aftermath of the most destructive war Europe had ever seen. The United Kingdom had lost a good bit of its industrial base to the Blitz. It had borrowed so much capital from the US to finance its war effort that it wouldn’t make its last payment to retire that debt until 2006.
Yet the nation designed and instituted a socialized system for delivery of health care that remains popular to this day.
It’s not perfect, no, but if your standard for a new system is perfection, then you’ll be sitting on your hands a looooooong time.
Our health care system is broken. It serves insurance companies and pharmaceutical giants long before it serves ordinary Americans. The free market approach doesn’t work, because there’s no effective downward pressure on prices. With pre-existing conditions clauses, waiting periods and employers opting to not cover their workers, the element of effective choice among vendors is all but nonexistent. There is no ceiling in sight to rising health care costs. If nothing changes (the Republican plan, by the way) then we will face a severe crisis as a nation very shortly.
So we need reform. We need it now.
And your argument that “we can’t afford it” is unpersuasive.
We can’t afford not to.
August 4th, 2009 at 10:42 pmSpot on, Ralph.
Another point that many miss…
Our manufacturing industry can’t afford to be hamstrung by these healthcare costs anymore. Every other industrialized nations industrial sector has a head start because healthcare is a national, not corporate, responsibility.
August 4th, 2009 at 11:07 pmralph the wonder llama says:
“Our health care system is broken. It serves insurance companies and pharmaceutical giants long before it serves ordinary Americans. The free market approach doesn’t work, because there’s no effective downward pressure on prices. With pre-existing conditions clauses, waiting periods and employers opting to not cover their workers, the element of effective choice among vendors is all but nonexistent. There is no ceiling in sight to rising health care costs.”
I don’t dispute your comments at all and I agree with your assessment that we must do something to fix the health care problem. However, with much of our industrial base having moved offshore and more following every day, I am only concerned about how we pay for this. Many of the new jobs in this country are lower wage scale jobs which don’t raise much tax revenue.
August 4th, 2009 at 11:19 pmNavy60… those other countries have both UNIVERSAL COVERAGE and a SAVINGS compared to our system… and as I already said it would be a boon to our manufacturing sector… making them MORE productive.
August 4th, 2009 at 11:41 pmbelaccifer lacca, can you imagine the stink that the Right would raise if Democrats suggested shifting the burden of health care ONTO employers?
August 5th, 2009 at 12:49 amIt’s weird, but I guess the right-wingers find their devotion to the Status Quo outweighs their sympathy for corporations in this instance.
guys check out the CPR conservatives for patients rights.
here’s the first evidence Jay is looking for…
also try freedom works. They are sending out scripts on how to be a hooligan. Sorry jay, but so far that’s the knowable truth.
As our hero once said – and that’s the way it is.
August 5th, 2009 at 1:10 amThey were there to deny others the right to be heard. IRONY again – they are hopeless.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/#32292149
August 5th, 2009 at 1:11 amI know, ralph… it truly puzzles me. I don’t know why the RIGHT isn’t pushing for single-payer… I mean, I know why… it just makes no sense.
August 5th, 2009 at 1:42 amDespite his offer for constructive dialogue, within minutes, members of the right-wing crowd began booing and hissing with repeated howls of “move to Europe!” Watch it:
August 5th, 2009 at 2:36 amJason Mattera, culture war chickenhawk !
August 5th, 2009 at 8:34 amAugust 5th, 2009 at 8:41 am
I watched the Rachel Maddow propaganda of yours Ape-Man.
Heaven forbid that someone inform people where the town hall meetings are going to take place and what questions should be asked of their Representatives. Definatly a right wing plot to do away with the American way of life.
How many people were denied their speach? 1, 5, 10?????I’ll wait for an answer from you. Be specific because your statement was specific.
August 5th, 2009 at 9:08 amhttp://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/08/nrcc-celebrates-recess-roasting.php
Here you go, jay. Nice story on how the NRCC is taking credit for these ‘town hells’ on their web-site.
The whole concept is to rattle the congress people and DISRUPT the meetings… much like the ‘Brooks Brothers riots’ of 2000… not saying its illegal, or even that they should be stopped, but it is pretty stupid to deny that this is the motivation and method of an organized operation.
Hey- did you read what Ralph and I wrote last night about your ‘debt’ objection to health care reform?
August 5th, 2009 at 9:15 amHow many people were denied their speach? 1, 5, 10?????I’ll wait for an answer from you. Be specific because your statement was specific.
How many would be too many, jay? 1, 5, 10?????? I’ll wait for your ridiculous non-response.
August 5th, 2009 at 9:16 amI’m all for healthcare for every citizen. If you think that 50 million people are uninsured (I think it is a much lower number) then why not concentrate on those people instead of changing things for those who like what they already have. (let them pay for their own healthcare) It would cost soooo much less than the current bill.
Can you be specific about this, jay? How does the current bill end up ‘changing things for those who like what they already have?’
August 5th, 2009 at 9:25 amHow is your plan (if there is one in there) a cost savings over the current bill.
How is this accomplished?
Not trying to be a jerk, jay… just want some specifics on your counter-proposal, that’s all.
Wow.
August 5th, 2009 at 9:35 amSo I see that someone just ‘voted down’ the entire thread… care to comment further?
Or are we too shy?
There is something very disturbing about this article written by Lee Fang. Writing an editorial and speaking your view concerning a certain topic or issue is fine.
Writing non-truths (aka lies) is quite another thing. The protestors are in fact bi-partisan. They consist of Democrats, Republicans, Independents, Liberals, Constitutionalists, Libertarians and Conservatives.
No Mr. Fang, we do not appreciate your fiction for the purposes of the political gain of your masters. When editorializing give opinion, when giving information to us, truth only please.
August 5th, 2009 at 9:39 amI’m sorry that you can’t understand what you read belaccifer lacca.
You asked me what I didn’t like about the present bill and I answered you.
For someone who is “Not trying to be a jerk,” you sure were one in front of all your clique friends last night.
You all seem to want to ask me questions but when I ask you a question you never answer them. Funny thing about that.
You (the posters at TP) always want to post to me but then you vote my replies down. It’s a silly game of yours but you are children here.
Now back to your fake question. The left is always telling people that Medicare is a great medical program run by the Government. I think that if you are really concerned about the uninsured (and not the takeover of the medical industry) then it would be very cheap and easier to just add those people to the medicare rolls. Uninsured problem solved.
There are no poor children in this country who don’t have medical coverage so that problem has been solved.
My personal opinion. I can’t find any provision in the Constitution that allows the Government to take over the medical industry and turn it into a Government run agency.
If you want to see this countries present government run healthcare program that has been in effect for the past 150 years or so, look at the Government run healthcare given to the Native Americans. This Government is doing, and has done, such a great job at administering that program.
August 5th, 2009 at 9:46 amMikeua26,
You missed another lie. Is anyone here really stupid enough to believe that the health care industry or insurance companies are hiring middle class people to attend meetings? Their influence is exerted by passing an envelope in a discreet meeting place to our Senators and Congressmen.
Just a few days ago I told the people here that I knew of several students from the local university who went to one of these meeting to protest excessive taxation and their opposition to Obama’s plan to socialize medicine.
These young men and ladies were all Democrats, telling their elected officials about how displeased they are with the current situation. If people think that Democrats and Republicans are supposed to argue over every issue and never agree on anything, that is sheer lunacy.
This is Freedom at it’s finest. The freedom of speech exercised by people of different political affiliations, fighting for the ease of the tremendous yoke the government is placing on the middle class.
August 5th, 2009 at 9:54 amYou just voted my down. Want to comment on what I posted?
August 5th, 2009 at 10:08 amThe protestors are in fact bi-partisan. They consist of Democrats, Republicans, Independents, Liberals, Constitutionalists, Libertarians and Conservatives.
Hmm, this may be so but I have to wonder why the NRCC is celebrating there efforts as a ‘victory’ then?
Ideas?
August 5th, 2009 at 10:09 amjay says:
You just voted my down. Want to comment on what I posted?
Actually jay, I haven’t voted anything of yours down. And I did Comment.
August 5th, 2009 at 10:10 amBecause it was in their eyes. Now back to my response to you.
August 5th, 2009 at 10:11 amMy post was to the person who voted post # 358 down. Was that you? And you didn’t answer that post either.
August 5th, 2009 at 10:14 amBecause it was in their eyes. Now back to my response to you.
So- you admit that the NRCC is telling people where to go, what to say and how to act at these meetings to be the most ‘rattling’ and you even acknowledge their claims of ‘victory’ but you’re willing to sign on with Mikeua26’s ridiculous assertion that this story is packed with lies?
August 5th, 2009 at 10:15 amMy post was to the person who voted post # 358 down. Was that you? And you didn’t answer that post either.
No- hence my commenting, ‘Actually jay, I haven’t voted anything of yours down. And I did Comment.’
That means I haven’t voted ANYTHING of yours down, jay. Clear?
And I gave you a point by point response to #358 at #360… I’m sorry that you can’t understand what you read
August 5th, 2009 at 10:17 amOh dammit. my post is awaiting moderation… who knows what I said- hold on, jay… I’ll break it up.
There are no poor children in this country who don’t have medical coverage so that problem has been solved.
Really? Where do you learn that? I’ve read differently…
August 5th, 2009 at 10:18 amhttp://www.familiesusa.org/resources/newsroom/press-releases/2008-press-releases/us-has-86-million.html
The story is packed with lies, propaganda and unproven (so called) fact.
I didn’t acknowledge anyons claims. You asked why and I answered why.
August 5th, 2009 at 10:19 amMy personal opinion. I can’t find any provision in the Constitution that allows the Government to take over the medical industry and turn it into a Government run agency.
Is there a provision in the Constitution SPECIFICALLY prohibiting the Government from providing health care? No? ‘Cause health care would seem to fall under the ‘General Welfare’ part of Article 1, Section 8.
You guys love the defense part but hate the general welfare part, why?
August 5th, 2009 at 10:19 amIf you want to see this countries present government run healthcare program that has been in effect for the past 150 years or so, look at the Government run healthcare given to the Native Americans. This Government is doing, and has done, such a great job at administering that program.
Know how Bush’s White House suggested shoring up the BIA’s health care issues? Transferring responsibility to Medicare and Medicaid. If administration costs are your problem, I wonder why you argue against Government Run programs which have much lower administration costs compared to private insurers?
http://nejm.highwire.org/cgi/content/short/349/8/768
http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/46/2/38980580.pdf
August 5th, 2009 at 10:20 amI think that if you are really concerned about the uninsured (and not the takeover of the medical industry) then it would be very cheap and easier to just add those people to the medicare rolls. Uninsured problem solved.
Okay- let’s expand medicare. Deal. I can live with that… we’ll also need cost reforms though, right?
I’m sorry that you can’t understand what you read belaccifer lacca.
You asked me what I didn’t like about the present bill and I answered you.
For someone who is “Not trying to be a jerk,” you sure were one in front of all your clique friends last night.
You all seem to want to ask me questions but when I ask you a question you never answer them. Funny thing about that.
August 5th, 2009 at 10:20 amWell, you didn’t really answer me SPECIFICALLY, did you?
You don’t like MOST of the bill and you think we can’t afford it, isn’t that what you said?
I wondered if you’d read my response to the debt argument last night?
Also, I know you the same way I ‘know’ every other poster here… by what you post. I don’t have a clique of friends on-line… I come to sharpen my arguments for the things I believe in and will answer any question as best I can. I always have, jay. Did you have a question?
The story is packed with lies, propaganda and unproven (so called) fact.
Where?
August 5th, 2009 at 10:21 amAugust 5th, 2009 at 10:26 am
Now you’re in my territory. Do you know the definition of “Provide” and “Promote”? You cut your reply a little short. Why is that?
August 5th, 2009 at 10:33 amYou left out the 14 specific things that our tax money is to be spent on. The writers of the Constitution were very specific in their wording of the document.
Nice try though, but it doesn’t stand up in the light.
August 5th, 2009 at 10:40 amAll children without healthcare are now provided with care. The families of those children are covered also.
All of them? Really? The expanded SCHIP program funds an estimated 4 million more children’s insurance… the latest data suggests that around 9 million were UNINSURED in 2008… see my link, which is larger?
August 5th, 2009 at 10:43 amNow you’re in my territory. Do you know the definition of “Provide” and “Promote”? You cut your reply a little short. Why is that?
Yes… I do. Promote the general welfare refers to the government’s obligation to ALL its citizens and obigates the Government to promote general interests over special interests.. special interests like private insurance.
August 5th, 2009 at 10:45 amYou left out the 14 specific things that our tax money is to be spent on. The writers of the Constitution were very specific in their wording of the document.
Did they include NASA in those 14 things? Did they include terms like ‘promote the General Welfare’ to confuse us?
August 5th, 2009 at 10:47 amIt’s because I don’t trust the Government to run healthcare. I would like to make my own medical decisions. I might reconsider everything if Congress would have to fall under the same rules and regulations that are in the bill.
I can’t find a Government program that doesn’t grow and cost more money every year. We are too deep in debt. I can’t agree with a politician who doesn’t read the bill before he signs it. Oh so many reasons that I don’t care for a 1000 plus page overhaul of the medical industry when the people who will be running things have a very poor record of managing such programs and don’t read what they vote on.
A simply worded bill in plain language so everyone can understand it (even the politicians) and I might reconsider things, but I doubt it.
August 5th, 2009 at 10:52 amNASA is a poor argument. It is and never was a private business and it does cover it in the sonstitution. It is and always will be a military project, so yes it is covered.
Do you know what the 14 specific things are? I have a copy of the Constitution on my desk. You should open yours and you will see that I’m correct on this. Paragraph 7.
Do you know the meaning of Promote? I suggest you look it up.
August 5th, 2009 at 10:57 amConstitution. Sorry for the typo. Normally I wouldn’t bother with correcting myself but this needed to be done.
August 5th, 2009 at 10:59 amThese same “tactics” were used by “industry” in the early days of unions organizing in this country. The unions did not win their struggle until streets ran red with blood.
It’s only “business” when greedy corporate entities value profit over your life, your mother’s life, your father’s life, your brother’s life, your children’s lives. What is it called when the common citizen revolts against this concept, and values “the common good” over the lives of those within the corporate entities? Murder?
Greed is an addiction as strong as any opiate, and those most addicted may find the only cure is a violent intervention for the good of all concerned.
Fighting for human dignity and the cause of the common man is rarely successful with words alone. If ever.
August 5th, 2009 at 11:12 ambelaccifer lacca, It was nice talking with you. You seem to be a “stand up guy” around here.
I hafta go.
I suggest that you get a copy of the Constitution and the Amendments and read it. It’s very interesting. Then maybe a copy of the Jefferson papers and the Franklin papers. Not everyone agreed with the wording of it.
It took over 10 years to write and be ratified.
Thanks for the chat.
August 5th, 2009 at 11:12 amThey can have the coverage if they want it. The expanded bill took affect this year so they are all covered if they want to be.
belaccifer lacca says:
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Now you’re in my territory. Do you know the definition of “Provide” and “Promote”? You cut your reply a little short. Why is that?
Sorry but that is your opinion. Not a fact. Here’s some facts about what the word really means.
pro·mote (pr? m?t?, pr?-)
transitive verb promoted -·mot?ed, promoting -·mot?·ing
to raise or advance to a higher position or rank she was promoted to manager
to help bring about or further the growth or establishment of to promote the general welfare
? to further the popularity, sales, etc. of by publicizing and advertising to promote a product
? Slang to acquire (something) by devious or cunning means
Chess to convert (a pawn that has crossed the board and reached the end row) to a more powerful piece
? Educ. to move (a student) forward a grade in school
provide definition
pro·vide (pr? v?d?, pr?-)
transitive verb provided -·vid?ed, providing -·vid?·ing
Now Rare to get ready beforehand
to make available; supply
to supply (someone) with something
to state as a condition; stipulate
The founding fathers knew the meanings of the words they used.
They were a smart bunch of guys.
August 5th, 2009 at 11:33 amAs usual MSM misses the story.
I was at a Town Hall meeting on Saturday in Bastrop, Texas where our good Congressman Lloyd Doggett was attacked by an unruly bunch of Republican thugs. They tried to shout Lloyd down and scared some of the children in the audience so bad they started crying and their parents had to take them out of the building. However, this was not just a bunch of peaceful Democrats and some responded and the only thing that keep a bunch of Republicans from getting their asses kicked was good work by the Bastrop police department.
As usual the MSM misses the story. Ninety percent of the people at the meeting were there to listen and have a civil exchange. The other 10% were there to disrupt, but they are getting all the coverage. At least in the group at this meeting the 90% were not going to sit back and have the meeting ruined by a bunch of idiots. But as usual the media focuses on the idiots.
No bunch of thugs was going stop our Congressman from having a civil discussion with the people. Oh and another observation – based on the age and lard asses on the so called protestors, they better hope they have some good insurance. I am sure none of those morons will pass up anything the government gives them. They just don’t want anyone else to have good coverage and they want their masters in Health Care and Big Pharma to keep living large for some unknown reason.
August 5th, 2009 at 11:45 amTo promote the growth or establishment of, not to eliminate or restrict the growth by the Government.
It means to promote business and commerce in the interest of the general welfare of the nation.
August 5th, 2009 at 11:51 amThat’s your opinion.
Your business-friendly opinion.
August 5th, 2009 at 12:10 pmOr perhaps I should have said, “Sorry but that is your opinion. Not a fact.“
August 5th, 2009 at 12:10 pmIf you say so. I do know the meaning of the word “promote” and I have studied the Constitution and those who wrote it and I just can’t find anything in the document that calls for the expansion of Government. To the contrary, they were more concerned about limiting government and increasing the freedoms of the people, hence the bill of rights.
So, it is a good bet that my opinion has some merit. The definition of the word supports my opinion over belaccifer’s.
But you are “ralph” and everything that you think you know must be right.
August 5th, 2009 at 12:31 pmFact is, the founders established a government for the purpose of levying taxes. If they wanted a libertarian wet dream, they would have “promoted” anarchy, rather than form a government.
The meaning of the word “promote” is resting safely in the dictionary, btw.
August 6th, 2009 at 12:42 amSince we are hung up an semantics, what does the word ‘and’ mean, jay?
Sorry my response took a day, jay… I was out with my son all day yesterday.
Also re: NASA- I agree that it has never been a private enterprise but I assume that you would never argue to privatize the navy or army? Both those institutions HAVE been private/public partnerships in the past but both function better as ’single payer’ organizations, don’t you agree? Times have changed since the days of privateers… or, considering Bush’s love of Blackwater, perhaps they haven’t.
Certain things are a national responsibility… health care is one of them.
In my opinion, of course…
August 6th, 2009 at 12:06 pmjay says:
——————————————————————————–
ralph the wonder llama says:
August 6th, 2009 at 2:41 pmjay, no one will ever be able to convince these people of the truth. You might as well save you energy, they are so blind to think this Admin is truthful and leading the country in the right direction. I visited this site to get an honest look at the other side of the coin, but wasted my time. These people belong in a ward for mentally challenged. Good luck in your quest to convince these folk of any truth.
These people belong in a ward for mentally challenged. Good luck in your quest to convince these folk of any truth.
Care to tell us why you oppose the bill before Congress specifically then?
Or did you just come to look, jayrayw?
August 6th, 2009 at 3:28 pmThank God we live in a country that has free speech, and people can say something when they see their freedoms beginning to be taken away.
August 6th, 2009 at 10:28 pmIs it possible that the government has misjudged the country’s mood?
See http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203517304574306533556532364.html
Lee keeps flogging that “leaked memo.” Anyone here interested in the truth about that memo and the guy who wrote it?
August 7th, 2009 at 3:58 am