Obama debunks right wing’s ‘enemies list’ conspiracy.
Obama debunks right wing’s ‘enemies list’ conspiracy.
Earlier this month, the White House announced a new effort to respond over email to “fishy” information circulating on the web regarding the health reform plan. Right-wing critics of Obama have interpreted this White House outreach as President Obama’s effort to compile an “enemies list.” Today in his town hall event in New Hampshire, Obama debunked the rumor:
Can I just say this is another example of how the media just ends up completely distorting what’s taking place. What we’ve said is that if somebody has – if you get an email from somebody that says for example ObamaCare is creating a death panel, forward us the email and we will answer the question that is being raised in the email. Suddenly, on some of these news outlets, this is being portrayed as Obama collecting an enemies list. Now, come on guys, here I am trying to be responsive to questions that are being raised out there – and I just want to be clear that all we’re trying to do is answer questions.
During the event, Obama solicited questions from skeptics of his health care plan. “I don’t want people thinking I have a bunch of plants in here,” Obama said. Watch it:
The “enemies list” conspiracy was given greater attention when Sen. John Cornyn (R-TX) penned a letter to the White House demanding to know why the they “would want information on opponents of its health care plan.” Cornyn wrote, “I am not aware of any precedent for a president asking American citizens to report their fellow citizens to the White House for pure political speech that is deemed ‘fishy’ or otherwise inimical to the White House’s political interests.”
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If I had an ‘enema list’, John Cornyn would be one of the very first names. Talk about mental constipation…
August 11th, 2009 at 2:51 pmThere actually should be an enemies list; starting with Limbaugh, Beck, Palin, O’Reilly………….
August 11th, 2009 at 2:52 pmIt’s pretty clear the what the Publicans want is the status quo, or a rollback to the good ol’ days of indentured servitude and slavery.
August 11th, 2009 at 2:53 pmAll this noise is just a smoke screen for corporatists to revert us back to said ‘good ole days’…
“I don’t want people thinking I have a bunch of plants in here,” Obama said.
– - No? I bet there were plenty of vegetables though.
August 11th, 2009 at 2:53 pmCan I just say this is another example of how the media just ends up completely distorting what’s taking place.
Some people still think Fox News is a representative of the media?
August 11th, 2009 at 2:54 pmfrom MSN business wire today:
Feel like you’re working a lot harder these days, putting in longer hours for the same pay — or even less? The latest round of government data on worker productivity indicates that you probably are.
The Labor Department said Tuesday that the American work force produced, at an annual rate, 6.4 percent more of the goods they made and services they provided in the second quarter of this year compared to a year ago. At the same time, “unit labor costs” — the amount employers paid for all that extra work — fell by 5.8 percent. The jump in productivity was higher than expected; the cut in labor costs more than double expectations.
That is, despite the deep job cuts of the past year, workers who remain on the payroll are filling in and making up the work that had been done by their departed colleagues. In some cases, that extra work came with a smaller paycheck.
Feeling Tired?
August 11th, 2009 at 2:54 pmUntil these idiots have nobody who will listen to them they will continue to lie and deceive.
August 11th, 2009 at 2:57 pmThese guys are laughing at the folks they dupe. If that was broadcast loud and clear the likes of Limbaugh et al. would finally be ousted from their bully pulpit.
Of course if they weren’t whining about being on a fictional ememies list the paranoids would be whining about being ignored. Then again with the lack of consistency amongst the wingnut mindset they are probably complaining about both at the same time.
August 11th, 2009 at 2:57 pmConsidering that most of the e-mails containing health care reform lies will have trickled far beyond their originator by the time they get to somebody who will forward them to the Obama crew for debunking, the “enemies list” claim is absurd. How, pray tell, would the White House be able to trace these e-mails back to ground zero? The best they could do would be to get the person who forwarded the e-mail to the person who forwarded it to the White House.
And even if they could find the originators, it would be more politically expedient to just debunk the lies than to persecute the ones telling them. All the latter would do is pour fuel on the fire.
August 11th, 2009 at 2:57 pmIt no longer matters what Obama says or does. The WhiteWing machine is working overtime to control the message, and they’re succeeding, with the help of the corporate media.
Immediately following Obama’s town hall, MSNBC said it sounded more like a campaign stop than an honest town hall, and speculated just how many in the room were plants of Obama’s.
Team Obama was so good with message control last year. Why did they lose their focus when it was most needed?
PEACE
August 11th, 2009 at 2:57 pmI really despise the repiggies for whipping up the legions of the stupid.
A teabagger started in on Obama and the Dems in my store last night. I threw him out, and I told him to never come back. I don’t need his business, and I certainly don’t care to have this GOPshite thrown in my face at my place of business.
Several other customers expressed relief that the crazy was thrown out, although they worry that he might come back with a gun.
August 11th, 2009 at 2:58 pmNow, come on guys, here I am trying to be responsive to questions that are being raised out there – and I just want to be clear that all we’re trying to do is answer questions.
President Obama just doesn’t get it. Answering questions is what makes the teabaggers mad. All of their efforts go toward stopping people from answering question.
August 11th, 2009 at 2:59 pmRUCerious,
August 11th, 2009 at 3:00 pmLike if the Postal Service cuts out Saturday delivery. It will still be the same amount of work, but must be done in five days instead of six.
How about an idiots list instead. Per AIO at #2, same list.
August 11th, 2009 at 3:01 pmBut any of those teabaggers that signed up at those astro-turf sites end up on a Chumps List!
However; this is anything but transparency:
“A White House proposal to end a long-standing policy forbidding government websites from tracking users could lead to “the mass collection of personal information of every user of a federal government website,” says the ACLU.”
http://rawstory.com/blog/2009/08/proposal-to-track-government-website-users/
August 11th, 2009 at 3:01 pmYou know, after his Town Hall meeting, CNN didn’t even have it on their Web Page. And yet we are being over-exposed to Specter’s Town Hall Free-for-all. MSM is giving these Righties a free pass. But I read Baracks ratings went UP in the last week. That proves to me the ‘Average American’ isn’t buying this crap. Just like they weren’t buying the ‘Tea Bag Parties,’ and why should they? They look like the same People! A bunch of angry, old white people.
August 11th, 2009 at 3:01 pmKeith @#13, and a cut in pay for the carriers, no doubt.
August 11th, 2009 at 3:01 pmI guess he forgot about the Bush TIPS program.
August 11th, 2009 at 3:02 pmhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_TIPS
Badmoodman says:
“I don’t want people thinking I have a bunch of plants in here,” Obama said.
And yet that ended up in being the RNC talking point for Obama’s town hall. Visit other sites like Huffington Post and you will see that most of the right wing trolls are talking about how Obama spoke to a hand picked crowd and that the questions were soft ball questions by plants.
August 11th, 2009 at 3:02 pmWondering how many loud and screaming people trying to disrupt this meeting. I am thinking not many as i bet the secret service would have to screen all coming in.
August 11th, 2009 at 3:02 pmI know they have a eye on at lease one person there a poster wearing a gun.
I’m glad President Obama’s getting out and talking to people and explaining his position. It won’t have any affect on the hardcore lunatics, but the more calm and reasonable and rational arguments his team puts out there, the harder it’ll be for the right to persuade anyone with their hysterical nonsense.
August 11th, 2009 at 3:03 pmCompare this town hall to the GOP-invite-only softball affairs Bush held.
August 11th, 2009 at 3:04 pmThe only thing ‘fishy’ about what Cornyn said is what Cornyn said.
Senator Cornpone, where was your concern when Cheney was reading our e-mails w/o a warrant?
Or when Bush was having AT&T listen in to our phone talks?
You must have been edubacated at the Mayberry Think Tank.
August 11th, 2009 at 3:06 pmAnaphase-prophase
August 11th, 2009 at 3:07 pmDarwinian dilemma
Dumb has strange powers
And the rieghties keep pushing that tired meme of a liberal media…
August 11th, 2009 at 3:07 pmOk, I can somewhat understand the concern about forwarding an email from a third party to a government agency. Warning – geek talk ahead.
It’s dangerously close to a Privacy Act violation. If the White House is storing these emails with full header information, it may indeed constitute a system of records that violates the Privacy Act.
It’s one thing for an individual to send a message to a White House web site knowing that the sender is providing personally-identifiable information – i.e. an email address. It’s a bit dicier legally when the sender is forwarding the personally-identifiable information of a third party to a government agency without the third party’s knowledge or consent.
I have no doubt that the administration’s intentions are good – they’re hearing a lot of misinformation and want to clear that misinformation up in a transparent and proactive way. I just hope their lawyers did their homework first.
August 11th, 2009 at 3:09 pmThe only White House “Enemies List” that actually existed, was compiled by a Republic party POTUS.
Tricky Dick anyone?
August 11th, 2009 at 3:09 pm***
ot but important,
geico has pulled it’s
ads from glenn beck’s show.
:)
August 11th, 2009 at 3:12 pmAs a recently retired high school teacher I must say that the scarcity of read comprehension skills on the republican side of the aisle is appalling. Yesterday, Boner drew the wrong conclusion on the use of the term un-American in the Pelosi-Hoyer op-ed. Now Cornyn writes the WH about a nonexistent “enemies list.” They either have poor reading comprehension skills, are acting stupidly for political gain, being duplicitous, or being consciously ignorant.
August 11th, 2009 at 3:13 pmIMO they are all of these.
Cornyn has spent too much time in the Texas sun.
August 11th, 2009 at 3:14 pmI wish I may I wish I might
August 11th, 2009 at 3:14 pmSet up Obama’s death panel tonight
And in the dock the Senate forty
Limbaugh, Beck and Hannity
Let the birthers and the deathers
Have their day in the limelight
Before the people take a breather
And be done with their inanity.
Uncle Ho,
August 11th, 2009 at 3:16 pmEnemies like John Lennon, Jack Anderson, and Huntley-Brinkley?
Here is the real enemies list. These are the corporations which have been funding the teabaggers trough Dick Armey’s lobbyist group:
Alliant Energy Corporation
American Council of Life Insurers
American Financial Group
American Insurance Association
AIG
BP America
Bristol-Myers Squibb
China Chamber of Commerce
Clarendon Insurance Group
Constellation Energy Group
Dubai Group
DuPont Corporation
Edison Electric
Emirates Investment and Development
First Kuwaiti General Trading & Contracting Company
General Motors
Goldman Sachs & Co.
Irving Oil
Lehman Bros. Inc.
Merrill Lynch
Residential Loan Centers of America
TransGas Energy
Vitas Healthcare Corporation
Washington Group International
World Fuel Services Corporation
http://mediamattersaction.org/factcheck/200908060005
August 11th, 2009 at 3:17 pmso easy a caveman can do it?
ba dum bum
:[
August 11th, 2009 at 3:17 pm—reading—-
August 11th, 2009 at 3:18 pmKeith says:
Yup, along with John Kerry, the VVAW, the Black Panthers, antiwar protesters, Daniel Ellsberg, ….etc
The good old days.
August 11th, 2009 at 3:20 pmChuck Feney says:
“A White House proposal to end a long-standing policy forbidding government websites from tracking users could lead to “the mass collection of personal information of every user of a federal government website,” says the ACLU.”
http://rawstory.com/blog/2009/08/proposal-to-track-government-website-users/
August 11th, 2009 at 3:01 pm
____________
The devil’s in the details here. It all depends what the cookies are and how they’re being used, and there need to be stringent restrictions on the types of usage allowed.
On the other hand, I can understand the government wanting to update their web sites from the stagnation of late-90s technology. It’s quite difficult to run any sort of web 2.0 applications without some form of cookies – usually transient.
Persistent cookies usually just allow for user convenience, setting preferences, persistent logins, etc. Most of us commenting on this web site right now have recieved a few cookies from Wordpress and Thinkprogress – are we worried about Faiz stalking us online?
August 11th, 2009 at 3:20 pm“I am not aware of any precedent for a president asking American citizens to report their fellow citizens to the White House for pure political speech that is deemed ‘fishy’ or otherwise inimical to the White House’s political interests.”
Then you’re not aware, Sen. Cornyn, of the government being responsive to its citizenry. It was unprecendented in the previous administration to cozy up to big oil companies and nudge no-bid contracts in their favor, and they dismissed public concern at every turn. We are voluntary sending misinformation to OUR WH communications office to help them prepare for the multitude of appearances to set the record straight. You hide behind the fear of every rinky dink political system (communism, etc.) as if a democratic nation’s responsibility is to allow bs like yours to go unchecked.
Full slate of craziness today. Air it out, it doesn’t bother me. Great appearance by the president in NH, he knows how to field questions.
August 11th, 2009 at 3:21 pmThank you, joe cantwell. Instead of the pre-formatted petition letter I wrote my own…
I’m switching to GEICO!
I know I will save some money, but the reason I’m switching is because GEICO pulled it’s ads from the Glenn Beck show, and that alone is reason enough to spend MY MONEY on GEICO.
August 11th, 2009 at 3:23 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Speaking of ‘Boogey men,’ Poor Glenn Beck lost another sponser today. It turns out GEIKO has some standards.
August 11th, 2009 at 3:24 pmAIG, also a health insurer, steals taxpayer money, 180 billion, by gambling in derivatives — yet the R’s [Troofers, birfers, deathers, lifers, enemylisters, obstructers, interrupters etc] are backing them [[possibly without their knowledge]] now?
*sigh*
August 11th, 2009 at 3:24 pmSorry Joe@28, I didn’t mean to steal your thunder.
August 11th, 2009 at 3:25 pmTo the people out there preaching “Liberty” and “Gettin’ the guvmint off ow backs!”: Gonna turn down your Medicare?
August 11th, 2009 at 3:26 pm***
sloppy,
sad they cancelled your show?
:(
August 11th, 2009 at 3:27 pmSlappyBastinado says:
#28…thanks joe….now we get pounded and pounded over and over non stop with that stupid UPS card board war commercial….as bad as it is I still prefer it over those stupid Progressive Insurance and even stupider Geico crap.
Man, when all is said and done you’re going to be limit yourself to doing business with the crappiest companies on Earth.
August 11th, 2009 at 3:29 pmIt’s sad. No matter how much is ‘debunked’ as being untrue or incorrect, these simple minded morons on the right will still believe anything from the mouth of someone with a (R) behind their name or from Fox Propaganda.
August 11th, 2009 at 3:30 pmSubsidise private insurance hedge funds with taxpayer funded bailouts!!
We need more AIGs for true health insurance reform!!!
/snark
August 11th, 2009 at 3:31 pmFixed News — 64% of Amuricans are satisfied with their health care plan.
How many Americans are satisfied when it’s time to use it?
August 11th, 2009 at 3:34 pmWhat Obama should have said:
Welcome to my Town Hall meeting, first off let me say, “Fcuk the Republicans”. We have tried to play nice but now I’m taking off the gloves.
First order of business is putting on trial the War Criminals Bush and Cheney.
Second is taking away Fox Propaganda’s FCC License, and charging Glenn Beck and Rush Limpballs with sedition.
Third we are going to check peoples ID’s at Town Hall meetings to the KKK people from outside that area are stopped from disrupting them.
Fourth, it is now a crime to be an ignorant republican…oh my bad, all republicans are ignorant.
Well, I can dream, can’t I?
August 11th, 2009 at 3:38 pmshoeless says
August 11th, 2009 at 3:17 pm
Here is the real enemies list. These are the corporations which have been funding the teabaggers trough Dick Armey’s lobbyist group:
____________________________________________________________
Wow. General Motors is on the list, even though it was Obama and the Democrats in Congress who saved their sorry asses?
August 11th, 2009 at 3:42 pmIf Prsident Obama stood there and said I HAVE A CURE FOR CANCER . .
These RACIST, SORE LOSERS would refuse the cure because it is coming from the black man occupying THEIR White House . .
These ignorant people are NOT listening and the democrats should just pass the health care bill with the 51 votes . .
Screw the stooopids in this country. They’re the same idiots who still think invading Iraq was retaliation for the 9/11 attack . .
August 11th, 2009 at 3:46 pmBuckie Boy . .
I AGREE TOTALLY . .
August 11th, 2009 at 3:47 pmtoasterhead
I don’t think that forwarding an email, particularly a chain email, even if it is to a government site violates any Privacy Act. I have to deal with Privacy and confidential information transmissions, and in order for it to be considered confidential or private, a disclaimer stating as much has to be posted on the email itself. Another point is that no one has a reasonable expectation of privacy in a forwarded email. In fact, they have a reasonable expectation that the email will be forwarded again, to recipients of the receivers choosing, as this is the purpose of the email in question.
In other words, you send me an email, and don’t say anything about it being private or confidential, but you clearly intend for me to forward it to my address list as you have done. I choose, instead, to forward it to only one address: flag@whitehouse.gov. Even if there was a penalty for them for such an email (and there obviously is not), they took the risk when they sent an email to an entire list of people and expected those people to do the same. You can’t expect it to be private when the goal is to let as many people know as possible.
August 11th, 2009 at 3:52 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
This comment has been voted down. Click to read.
dumrepub
Hell, why don’t you just reccommend that we round them all up and shoot them?
August 11th, 2009 at 4:03 pmkwsventures
Pretty weak. Even the kids chuckle at you when you say things this piss ignorant.
August 11th, 2009 at 4:04 pmNo taxing the middle class? Do you truly believe this can all be paid for by 2% of the population? The rich?
I’ll take this part. First, the bush tax cuts primarily benefiting the wealthy have not been without significance. Even Reagan found the tax cuts he pushed for were unaffordable. Second, we’re talking about a surcharge that would pay for what’s not offset — about $500B — over a period of ten years. So taxing the wealthy would work to pay for health reform.
I’ll have you note that taxing the middle class is untenable because they’ve been strapped enough in the private market. Once the economy is revved up and people across the board are benefiting, a nickle-and-dime approach would be absorbed into incomes with higher purchasing power. If we have a healthier population and people can afford their premiums, taxes on the middle class may not have to be raised at all. Repairing the damage is always most expensive.
August 11th, 2009 at 4:10 pmJesus, wingnuts really are morons who seem to not be able to use logic.
No wingnuts, Mr. crazy McCrazyPants will not be allowed by the guys in the black sunglasses to get close to the POTUS just so he can scream and yell.
But I understand why they are confused. Bush always had hand picked crowds.
August 11th, 2009 at 4:11 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Ironic that you say this today. The day Obama did just that on national TV, again.
You guys just don’t get irony.
August 11th, 2009 at 4:16 pmWho should pay to have 12 million illegals added to our “new” health care plan?
Illegals aren’t covered in any of the proposals. If there’s something to the contrary, please provide a link.
If you want to be taken seriously, knock off the “Obamacare” nonsense and stop mentioning illegals at every turn. No liberal in Mass. invited illegals to take under-the-table wages, business did, and no liberal brought about doubled health premiums, monopolized corporations did.
August 11th, 2009 at 4:16 pm***
#61,
hmm, wonder how many beers
w’s had so far today?
:)
August 11th, 2009 at 4:23 pmHey dumrepub — your concerns about illegal immigrants being covered are unfounded. Contrary to your assertion that ‘NO ONE has EVER EVER addressed it’, John Dingell addressed it in an op-ed in the Detroit News that can be found here:
Rep. Dingell’s editorial.
I’ve seen it addressed other places and by other people as well, but this is the most recent instance. The money quote from that op-ed is that the health care plan “[w]ill not cover illegal immigrants, leaving American citizens to pay for it. Section 246 of H.R. 3200 specifically prohibits federal funds from being spent to cover illegal immigrants.”
August 11th, 2009 at 4:24 pmIf any of you are more Progressive than me I am truly happy to know you exist, however denying the ineffectiveness of this town hall will not help us progress.
It looked exactly like a campaign stop. If there was a Republican in the room, it was one of those liberal Republicans. I wouldn’t say all the questions were softballs, but the ones that weren’t he didn’t answer well at all.
Obama did a horrible job refuting the “death panel” claim. Death panels do exist in insurance companies. Of course they are not called death panels, but they do decide what medical claims and procedures will be covered and for whom. For the Democrats to refute this makes them seem ignorant. Just refute the damn name not the existence of these procedures in insurance companies.
He also didn’t answer the gentleman’s question regarding expanding the federal insurance program instead of creating a new one. That’s a valid question.
Most importantly, Obama FINALLY used the term self-sustaining. Why the hell did it take this long for him to use that terminology.
We are getting Obliterated by the conservative media machine and Democrats can’t get a decent single message put together. Off-the-cuff discussions are going to get us killed!
After many months in these forums I think most of you could put together a better message than our damn reps can.
August 11th, 2009 at 4:24 pmdumrepub says:
Who should pay to have 12 million illegals added to our “new” health care plan? I live in S. Texas. Yous guys in Mass and RI, etc, really don’t understand. Your idealism won’t let you. If you could see what I see, and live what I live, you’d NEVER want to have to pay a dime (governmentally) to have these people taken care of.
August 11th, 2009 at 3:59 pm
________________
So living in Texas means you don’t have to see immigrants as human beings with human rights?
Nice.
Why don’t you people just secede already – I don’t want to share a country with you.
August 11th, 2009 at 4:25 pm1. It’s not our fault you live in a sh#t hole. Move if you’re unhappy.
2. The government already reimburses hospitals for uninsured patients whatever their status is. Although you Republicans gladly let people die in the streets because they don’t meet your criteria the government insists that sick people be treated no matter what. And the government already reimburses hospitals for some of this expense.
3. Many issues are addressed that you never hear because you listen to Fox Fake News. Get a brain and listen to an actual news source and maybe you’ll learn something.
August 11th, 2009 at 4:27 pmScott Schindler says:
We are getting Obliterated by the conservative media machine and Democrats can’t get a decent single message put together. Off-the-cuff discussions are going to get us killed!
August 11th, 2009 at 4:24 pm
______________
This has been the Democrats’ problem for a while now. Particularly since they had to let so many Blue Dogs into the party to get a majority. They not only have to fight Republican misinformation, they have to fight their own colleagues.
August 11th, 2009 at 4:28 pmDear dumrepub (very appropriate name, by the way),
WE ALL PAY FOR ILLEGAL ALIENS ALREADY. You do. I do. We all do. Big fat bucks. And worse, we pay with over-burdened and failing hospitals and emergency rooms who must turn away patients because they’re full.
Duh. Illegal immigrants and uninsured Americans have no recourse but to use the emergency room as their primary source of health care.
Don’t you think it makes sense to fix this with sensible reforms that enable people – not just illegals, but your fellow Americans, too – to get the care they need – without clogging up the ER?
I do.
August 11th, 2009 at 4:32 pmI don’t know if this has been posted yet, but there was a man with a gun strapped to his ankle in plain view outside (and across the street) from Obama’s town hall.
Apparently the laws in NH don’t allow for any action to be taken if the gun is not “concealed” and is in plain view, and if they are on private property. Which he was, he had permission to be on church grounds.
I can’t believe it, what’s the next step? Why didn’t the FBI just arrest him or take him into custody for questioning? I’m pretty sure they can do that.
August 11th, 2009 at 4:32 pmdumbrepub
That’s a really good and descriptive screenname. I say this because you have managed somehow to completely ignore the reality of where these protesters are coming from. They are put on the march by people like Dick Armey with freedomworks, and Americans for Prosperity, both of which are the payrolls of various major corporations, most notably insurance, pharma, and energy corporations. Big surprise there, I know, but if you really haven’t seen any evidence, then it’s because you’ve had your eyes closed.
Now, to the points that made some sense, even if they weren’t based in reality. First of all, not all immigrants are illegal. Moving on – Illegal immigrants are not covered under goverment plans, because such plans require that you submit proof of citizenship or at minimum a social security number. This is true of all government programs, what in the hell would make you think that a government insurance program would be different?
But really, you are completely misunderstanding what is being sought here. You talk about this as though taxes will go up to pay for a big giant government take-over of healthcare, and if you really believe this, I would encourage you to actually read something other than propeganda, and try to find a credible news source as opposed to Fox News and Rush Limbaugh. Here’s reality: What they are proposing is a government-run healthcare plan that will compete with private industry. This may be subsidized slightly by tax dollars, but the truth of the matter is that participants will have to pay premiums to enroll. What makes it more accessible is not that it is “universal coverage” but that the premiums to enroll in this plan will be on a sliding scale based on your income. Yes, some people will get coverage for free. Most will not, and will have to pay something for it. There is no requirement that you enroll in the government option, but there does seem to be a requirement that everyone have some type of coverage. Personally, I agree with that requirement, particularly in light of the sliding scale premium rates and existence of a public option, but that requirement is completely debateable on its merits. Unfortunately, no one so far has bothered to discuss the plan on its merits, opting instead to just make shit up as they go along.
You make mention of taxing the rich. First of all, the class that would be taxed additionally if there were going to be tax increases at all (which would be true for certain if this wasn’t being proposed as a paygo program that is revenue neutral) comprise 5% of the population, not 2. Of course, if you don’t want to have to pay more, you can always go on the public option and then you don’t have to pay outlandish insurance premiums, which would more than negate your modest, if existant, tax increase. That’s a snide remark I’ll admit (though certainly a good point), I recognize, but you need to recognize that this is the type of thing that we have been told for years – “well if you don’t like it you can do (fill in the blank with completely unrealistic and unpalatable option).” You completely disregard the desire of the majority of progressives for EVERYONE’S taxes to increase to pay for a robust national healthcare plan, and thats not even on the table. So you can come in here and accuse us of wanting to stick it to the rich, but that’s not true. What is true is that we recognize that our country thrives when the citizens are happy, healthy, and productive, and we are willing to pay a little more to make that happen. I’m sorry you’re not, and perhaps this isn’t the case, but usually when someone isn’t willing to pay for healthcare, but never said boo about multiple wars, it is apparent that that person geniunely doesn’t realize that people are more important than money, and that’s flatly selfish. For someone with a problem with atheists, that strikes me as a remarkably unChristian attitude.
Of course, when you come in making huge assumptions, such as we’re all in Massachusettes, or 99% of us are atheists, we recognize that you think you know everything there is to know about the subject, about us, about our opinions, about our ideals, and about how life really is, despite proving in your post that you haven’t even bothered to read the legislation, which hasn’t even been passed yet. In reality, you don’t know dick. You think you do, and that’s even worse. If you really wanted polite discourse, you wouldn’t immediately jump to conclusions about who you are talking to, you would have come prepared with actual information, and you would have posted it on a thread regarding healthcare, instead of one discussing a completely different subject altogether. As it stands, I’ve already indulged you enough.
August 11th, 2009 at 4:34 pmSorry for the big old wall of post, guys. I read that post from dumbrepub and couldn’t stop myself.
August 11th, 2009 at 4:36 pmYeah but when they are a new Mexican state I don’t want any of those Texan Mexicans trying to sneak back into our country trying to get free health care.
August 11th, 2009 at 4:37 pmdumbrepub – well, I was going to respond but the above posts have already so put you in your place…
….do you post as ignorantfckheadrepub on other sites?
You should.
August 11th, 2009 at 4:43 pmMr Cornyn-
August 11th, 2009 at 4:52 pmRemember Nixon? He really DID have an enemies list.
smidget says:
Sorry for the big old wall of post, guys. I read that post from dumbrepub and couldn’t stop myself.
Oh i rather enjoyed it myself. i have to say good job and i couldnt agree more.
August 11th, 2009 at 4:54 pmdumrepub says:
You TRULY are dumb. Mind bogglingly stupid. You come in here toss out an ignorant talking point about 99% of us being athiests. Something incredibly ignorant that you were brainwashed into believing BECAUSE you are stupid then ask us for intelligent debate. Why bother tossing my pearls before a swine like you? Come up with something NOT an insulting talking point only ignorant brainwashed zombies take seriously and we can talk til then it might be better if you just STFU and let the adults talk
August 11th, 2009 at 4:57 pmkwsventures says:
My GOD you are a boring ignorant piece of filth. Stupid even by the punkass troll and that bar is pretty low. Somehow you have managed to libo under it
August 11th, 2009 at 5:00 pmdumrepub-
August 11th, 2009 at 5:06 pmWhat does atheism have to do with this topic? Are you suggesting prayer as a form of healthcare? Or will churches step in to help all the helpless? Or is it a way to marginalize people who don’t believe in your god?
You might find more sympathy for your views at Freerepublic or WorldNutDaily
The communist debs is back from cuba.
Debs’ political views turned to socialism after he read the works of Karl Marx.
August 11th, 2009 at 5:07 pmA couple of other interesting names on that list are the China Chamber of Commerce and the Dubai Group. Do you think any of the dumbass teabagger know they are being funded by Chinese communists and Arab dictators?
August 11th, 2009 at 5:11 pmkwsventures says:
Debs’ political views turned to socialism after he read the works of Karl Marx.
August 11th, 2009 at 5:07 pm
_____________
So?
What’s so bad about Karl Marx?
August 11th, 2009 at 5:17 pmchiroptera toasterhead says:
What’s so bad about Karl Marx?
The troll is also a dittohead and Rush told him Marx is baaaad…
August 11th, 2009 at 5:23 pmWow! EugeneDebs is right. This one sounds as if is capable of repeating only the most simplistic talking points, which have been programmed into it’s rudimentary nervous system.
August 11th, 2009 at 5:24 pmSo now reichwingers are oh so worried about their privacy?
Where were they when Bush was openly flaunting his disdain for FISA, ordering illegal wiretaps that extended far beyond what he claimed was a “fight against terrorism”?
Where were they when Bush ordered the suspension of Habeas Corpus?
But they are dead worried about a forwarded email?
You can’t cure stupid… sheesh…
August 11th, 2009 at 5:30 pmI see the dumbass teabagger, kwsventures, gave my post @ #82 a thumbs down. It didn’t want to know that it’s teabagger groupld is being funded by communists and terrorist supporters.
Hey, kwsventures, how do you feel about being funded by followers of Karl Marx and the same people who fund al Qaeda?
August 11th, 2009 at 5:31 pmWith all the (mostly illegal) stuff Bush put into place, you’d think Pres Obama would be able to compile an “enemies list” without the need for anyone to forward an email.
Then again, conspiracy theorists don’t do logic.
August 11th, 2009 at 5:34 pmkwsventures says:
And the stupidest moron on the block is back. You keep repeating that as if I didnt know Debs was a socialist. So what? You really are stupid. Do you take special stupid pills to maintain that galactic level of ignorance or is it a natural gift?
August 11th, 2009 at 5:35 pmI keep up on both sides of the debate from Dems & Repubs, but all I really care about is the future of the country and what is truly the best solution for all, no matter what the topic. The way this HC issue is going it will die a natural death just like it did in the 90’s. What nobody wants to address is tort reform. Until that issue is cleaned up all of the rest is just conversation. Why won’t that happen? Because Obama knows which side of his bread is buttered. Remember the “no lobbyists in DC” line. Well, it did not take him long to figure out that he needed them. All of this arguing about Repubs did this or Dems said that doesn’t add up to jack. All we got was more of the same political posturing and pandering to the special interest groups that call the shots. Follow the money people.
August 11th, 2009 at 5:36 pmIndependent FL Voter says:
You may THINK you are independent but you are parroting the propaganda of the right. The reason tort reform is problematic is that it hurts the vast majority of the people to help out corporations and it is a miniscule part of healthcare costs something less than 1%. So I suggest you STOP getting your talking points from the Limborg and if you seriously only care about the facts find some out.
August 11th, 2009 at 5:38 pmAlso, there is no need to compile an enemies list. Americans for Prosperity already put together a data base of Republican insurgents, when they organized the tea parties. If the FBI gets serious about national security, and wants to round up some of these right-wing terrorists, all they have to do is get a search warrant and confiscate AFP’s computer.
August 11th, 2009 at 5:41 pmThat’s because this is not a debate about tort reform. Stop trying to change the subject.
August 11th, 2009 at 5:47 pmEugeneDebs says -
You make my point for me. You and everyone else that is hung up on making this a left vs. right issue is missing the big picture. By the way, I don’t listen to or watch any of the “masters of the media”. I am capable of researching and compiling my own info from independent sources and forming my own opinion.
August 11th, 2009 at 5:48 pmI guess it is just a coinsidence that you opinion is always expressed as RNC talking points.
August 11th, 2009 at 5:50 pmshoeless says -
Debate? 90% of the posts here are name calling and “they did that so we did this”. Sounds like my kids.
August 11th, 2009 at 5:52 pmYes, when really, really stupid trolls come here to regurgitate Republican propaganda, some people like to point out how really, really stupid they are.
August 11th, 2009 at 5:56 pmThe only Right Wing Enemies List that Exist, is the one that the Right Wing has had since 2001. President Obama, was not the President doing those years….
August 11th, 2009 at 6:03 pmshoeless says -
OMG you are too easy. What am I supposed to do now – “Sticks and stones will break my bones but names will never hurt me.” I do not have the rules of engagement for a childs post. I thought you might have something constructive to say.
August 11th, 2009 at 6:04 pmYour constant attempts to change the subject are hardly constructive.
August 11th, 2009 at 6:08 pmshoeless says -
My constant attempts? I made one initial post to express an opinion and I am not being constuctive? As I said, my views are formed on my own. I do not have to have someone tell me what to think or do. Some of my views conflict with my Repub friends and some conflict with my Dem friends, but as my name indicates I am an Independent. If independent views bother you as much as they seem too you are going to be in a very isolated arena.
August 11th, 2009 at 6:16 pmdumrepub says:
This comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Pardon me for interrupting, but I’m seeing many verbal attacks on people who are simply speaking their minds. I have yet seen anyone produce evidence of the latest conspiracy that “big insurance” is financially backing/stuffing these town hall meetings with “paid for” old folks. Where is the evidence? Also, many of these posts seem to be, simply, name calling frustration relievers. How about some opinion on Obama’s plan for our future healthcare? None of you have legitamate concerns? No taxing the middle class? Do you truly believe this can all be paid for by 2% of the population? The rich? The ones who have, according to many of the bloggers here, have paid to send in these “mobs” and “town cryers”?. Why would “the rich” be cutting off their noses to spite their faces? Hmmmm? Who should pay to have 12 million illegals added to our “new” health care plan? I live in S. Texas. Yous guys in Mass and RI, etc, really don’t understand. Your idealism won’t let you. If you could see what I see, and live what I live, you’d NEVER want to have to pay a dime (governmentally) to have these people taken care of. There are other means of taking care of these people, but since 99% of you are atheists, you wouldn’t see my point of view there either. Illegals are only ONE aspect of Obamacare that NO ONE, including Obama himslef has EVER, EVER addressed. Anyone out there want to take me on? Let’s correspond…respectfully and w/ intelligence.
Perhaps if you can see what your blindness refuses to let you see, you realize that we’re not all people to categorize into some category the right loves to demonize like atheists…and you might see how you’ve bought into all those lies, such as it’s the fault of the “illegals” that Medicare is going bankrupt and that it’s their fault for everything…Perhaps if you don’t want us to stereotype you as well oh I don’t know, a willing pawn of these health insurance companies, then maybe you shouldn’t stereotype us as well…
and what about those fake astroturf groups with those mailing lists purporting to be genuine grassroots movements like MoveOn? It doesn’t take much to mobilize a group of “concerned citizens” as Fox News and you might like to portray them, just a bunch of emails and Facebook groups created by these front groups…
August 11th, 2009 at 6:40 pmYou on the right complain about how the liberal media is so damn biased that it is nothing more than Obama’s propaganda arm. Yet Fox News was actively promoting these town halls. I thought it was supposed to be a news network. Even the news anchors were promoting it, instead of just the “commentators.” These front groups are connected to lobbying firms, that know how to do astroturfing. They know how to manipulate the “grassroots” into doing their bidding. They want to create the illusion that they are just a counterpart to MoveOn on the right.
August 11th, 2009 at 6:57 pmIndependent FL Voter:
If you’re so capable of researching your own information, would you care to explain to us why you feel that an item such as tort reform which comprises less than 5% of healthcare costs is such a crucial issue that it would derail the entire debate? That doesn’t make any sense, you know. One think that an informed voter such as yourself would realize as much.
One would also think that you would be aware of the drastically lower costs of malpractice insurance (for which tort reform really would make a difference) in the countries that do have a solid healthcare policy. One would also think that you would be aware that much of the reason that the costs are lower in these countries is because most of the malpraotice payouts are to cover medical costs, which are already covered when an effective healthcare policy is in place.
I’m more than willing to debate this topic with you, but you come in here spouting the same old drivel we have heard from neocon after neocon, and again claiming to be an “independent” who researches his own information, yet what you have posted so far belies this claim. If you would like to discuss this on the merits, then by all means, go ahead, I’m ready.
August 11th, 2009 at 7:18 pmObama is waiting passively to receive emails of people self reporting themselves as enemies.
As opposed to Bush actively scarfing up all communications and adding people to the enemies list without evidence
HUH ????
August 11th, 2009 at 7:20 pmI think I better turn myself in before one you guys do.
August 11th, 2009 at 7:34 pmblclem says:
I think I better turn myself in before one you guys do.
Is that a subtle jab at us, implying we’re Nazis? C’mon…most likely there aren’t names, we aren’t collecting them, most likely it’s the false info that we and this administration are worried about.
August 11th, 2009 at 7:36 pmIndependent FL Voter says:
I keep up on both sides of the debate from Dems & Repubs, but all I really care about is the future of the country and what is truly the best solution for all, no matter what the topic. The way this HC issue is going it will die a natural death just like it did in the 90’s. What nobody wants to address is tort reform.
The health care bill will pass and fade away as an issue. Then the Republicans will find another issue. Instead of looking inward, the Republicans are blaming their problems on everyone else. Three election losses in a row is a steep decline for any party. They have been hijacked by the radical right Christian evangelicals and the former Dixiecrats, neither of which can attract middle of the road voters. The more the Republicans purge the moderates, the more likely they will be defeated in many states outside the south.
Tort reform is a bogus health care issue. The malpractice constitutes less than 2% of all health care expenditures. This bogus issue is a stealth issue to get doctors off the hook and another way for insurance companies to squeeze out more profits. Don’t kid yourself into thinking that with tort reform the insurance companies are going to reduce doctors premiums. With all the state tort reforms, the malpractice premiums are still going up.
Tort reform
August 11th, 2009 at 7:56 pm74. Shayne says:
———————————————
chiroptera toasterhead says:
So living in Texas means you don’t have to see immigrants as human beings with human rights?
Nice.
Why don’t you people just secede already – I don’t want to share a country
—————————————————
Yeah but when they are a new Mexican state I don’t want any of those Texan Mexicans trying to sneak back into our country trying to get free health care.
Hey! Get off my lawn, kid. Ooop – wrong target audience…
Hey! We already have a new Mexican state. It’s called New Mexico. And we don’t want any more Texans over here messing with the water and the critters and clogging the roads and highways. So just take that seccession talk somewhere else. Aside from that, Texas isn’t allowed to secede; the accession law allowed it to reform as 4 or 5 smaller states. Lessee, we could have the States of Dallas, Houston, San Antonio/Austin, Armadillo, pardon, Amarillo or Panhandle, and Hell Paso, aka Out There.
August 11th, 2009 at 8:38 pmWhy would this administration need to compile an “enemies list”? All they need to do is pull the voter registrations of everyone who is still registered as Republican, and assume that at least 90% of them are enemies of Obama.
Seriously, how many supporters of Obama and/or his agenda remain registered Republicans?
PEACE
August 11th, 2009 at 10:05 pmWait, didn’t the Republicans pass tort reform in 2005? Wasn’t it supposed to lower the costs of products such as drugs from Pfizer and doctor’s premiums? I guess we can get Viagra for 10 cents now, right? Oh we can’t?
August 11th, 2009 at 10:35 pmIndependent FL Voter says:
You didnt HAVE a point. You had a stale talking point. A cliched rightwing bit of idiocy. So you dont listen to rightwing screechmonkeys you just somehow research and come up with their EXACT same BS even though it is stupid. Lawsuits are a miniscule addition to the cost of healthcare so your research led you to a stupid conclusion that just HAPPENS to be the talking point of rightwing screechmonkesy. RIIIIIGHT.
http://www.thepoptort.com/2009/07/new-study-by-air.html
According to Hunter, “If Congress completely eliminated every single medical malpractice lawsuit…overall health care costs would hardly change, but the costs of medical error and hospital induced injury would remain and someone else would have to pay.”
Here are the major findings:
• Medical malpractice premiums, inflation-adjusted, are nearly the lowest they have been in over 30 years.
• Medical malpractice claims, inflation-adjusted, are dropping significantly, down 45 percent since 2000.
• Medical malpractice premiums are less than one-half of one percent of the country’s overall health care costs; medical malpractice claims are a mere one-fifth of one percent of health care costs. In over 30 years, premiums and claims have never been greater than 1% of our nation’s health care costs.
• Medical malpractice insurer profits are higher than the rest of the property casualty industry, which has been remarkably profitable over the last five years.
• The periodic premium spikes that doctors experience, as they did from 2002 until 2005, are not related to claims but to the economic cycle of insurers and to drops in investment income.
• Many states that have resisted enacting severe restrictions on injured patients’ legal rights experienced rate changes (i.e., premium increases or decreases for doctors) similar to those states that enacted severe restrictions on patients’ rights, i.e., there is no correlation between “tort reform” and insurance rates for doctors.
August 12th, 2009 at 1:01 amIndependent FL Voter says:
Debate? 90% of the posts here are name calling and “they did that so we did this”. Sounds like my kids.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
90% of your posts are stupid rightwing talking points indistinguishable from a rerun of the Rush Limbaugh show
August 12th, 2009 at 1:03 amblclem says:
I think I better turn myself in before one you guys do.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
God you are stupid. Turn yourself in to a mental health professional before your last braincell runs screaming to get away from your abject stupidity
August 12th, 2009 at 1:04 amWhy make a list when everyone, that could be on this list, is constantly on the TV running their mouths about nothing?
August 12th, 2009 at 10:51 am