Right-Wing Health Care Group Tricked British Women Into Appearing In Anti-Reform Ad
Right-Wing Health Care Group Tricked British Women Into Appearing In Anti-Reform Ad
Earlier this year, Conservatives for Patients Rights (CPR), an anti-health care reform group led by the disgraced former CEO of Columbia/HCA Healthcare Rick Scott, began running a commercial attacking the British health care system. The TV ad runs through “tragic stories” of British citizens who it portrays as being against government-run health care such as the National Health Service (NHS). Watch it:
Now, the Daily Mail is reporting that two of the women featured in the commercial say they were “duped” into appearing in CPR’s ad campaign:
Furious Kate Spall and Katie Brickell claim that their views on the NHS have been misrepresented by a free market campaign group opposed to Mr Obama’s reforms in a bid to discredit the UK system. [...]
Ms Spall and Ms Brickell both agreed to appear in a documentary on healthcare reform. But neither knew that the footage would be used as part of a TV advertising campaign carried on US networks.
The Daily Mail article goes on to note that both Spall and Brickell actually support government-run health care and were advocating for reforms within the NHS, not for its abolition.
CPR’s ad campaign is one of many misleading attacks being used by American conservatives against the United Kingdom’s single-payer health care system, which is so popular that even Conservative Party politicians unambiguously endorse it.
The right-wing Investor’s Business Daily (IBD) ran an editorial recently claiming that physicist Stephen Hawking “wouldn’t have a chance” in the UK because the NHS does not offer proper care to the elderly, prompting Hawking to remind IBD that he both lives in Britain and that without the NHS’s “high quality of treatment,” he “wouldn’t be alive today.”
Fed up with the deceptive attacks against their health care system from the American right, British citizens have started the “We love the NHS campaign” on Twitter, which has become one of the top trending topics on the service, with even British Prime Minister Gordon Brown taking part.
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The only way these anti-health care reform losers can accomplish anything is by lying.
Bigger and bigger lies, more and more profit for their astroturf shit.
August 15th, 2009 at 10:51 pmI just love watching the fabric of the Republican Party come apart at the seams.
August 15th, 2009 at 10:59 pmI’m sure Quitter Palin will save the Republican party, Levi.
Hee hee…
August 15th, 2009 at 11:05 pmStephen Hawking is also a scientist – one who believes the Earth is more than 6,000 years old, no less – so if anyone was going to let him die it would be the “Christian” fundamentalist friends of Chuck Grassley…
August 15th, 2009 at 11:07 pmMod Squad,
Good thing Steven Hawking wasn’t at the “mercy” of the NHS, huh?
LOL
August 15th, 2009 at 11:09 pmWe all know when Rick Scott’s name is attached to anything it’s all lies and deception.
August 15th, 2009 at 11:09 pmI wonder if these women have legal grounds to sue for using their statements in advertisements rather than as part of a documentary? I guess it’s no different than Sasha Baron Cohen putting all those idiots in Borat after getting signed releases based on a false premise, but it seems so much worse to twist someone’s words in order to make a propaganda ad.
After the phony Bush re-election, the headlines from the UK read “How can 59 million Americans be so dumb?” but after the coverage of this healthcare debate and town halls, I expect upcoming headlines that read “How can 20 million Americans be so fcuking stupid? And why is anyone listening to morons?”
PEACE
August 15th, 2009 at 11:09 pmThey will stop at nothing. They have trillions to lose.
But they WILL lose.
August 15th, 2009 at 11:09 pmZooey says:
The only way these Republican losers can accomplish anything is by lying.
Bigger and bigger lies, more and more profit for their astroturf shit.
Fixed the typo.
August 15th, 2009 at 11:11 pmJesus Hussein Christ, there’s over a thousand comments on the Grassley/Beck book thread…and here I am, in the top ten of this one…
Timing is everything, ain’t it? Zaid, why aren’t you at a movie or asleep in bed?
;-)
August 15th, 2009 at 11:14 pmDaddy-O says:
Fixed the typo.
August 15th, 2009 at 11:11 pm
I was including the Blue Dog Dems and “Independents.” :-D
August 15th, 2009 at 11:15 pmoh wonderful. Rick Scott, magic health care insurance felon strikes again. There oughta be a law. Hm, actually, there may be; anybody have a copy of the Truth in Advertising legislation, ie, the CFR/US Code number?
Swat the turd with a law book!
August 15th, 2009 at 11:22 pmNumbah 10. Daddy-o. The reason you’re in the top ten of this thread is BECAUSE of the over-a-thousand on the Grassley/Beck thread. Everyone is over there. They’ve been over there all day. The trolls are over there too. It’s just too big to miss out on, except for those of us who are writing the Great American Health Care Insurance Fracas novel on the other threads.
August 15th, 2009 at 11:25 pmhad enough,
They did! DO NOTHING.
The typical thing…
August 15th, 2009 at 11:31 pmHow pathetic.
All they know how to do is trick, con, scam, lie while carrying the cross wrapped in the flag.
Can they just give ONE solution to our health care crisis?
August 15th, 2009 at 11:32 pmCool, time travel…
August 15th, 2009 at 11:32 pmIf these GNOP freaks had something to offer why do they have to trick?
August 15th, 2009 at 11:33 pmThose from other countries are already p off at US as the GNOP continues to bash their universal health care system. Hope to hear from the British about this.
What fools we have become in the eyes of others because of the GNOP.
August 15th, 2009 at 11:51 pmHere are the British numbers. Our health care costs twice as much per capita and as a percentage of GDP. We live shorter and have higher infant/child mortality rates:
http://www.tips-q.com/1228671-health-care-what-shills-dont-want-you-know
August 16th, 2009 at 12:00 amWhat makes me mad is that even with the way the teabaggers are shooting themselves in the foot, they may yet win and defeat Health Care/Insurance reform.
August 16th, 2009 at 12:01 amBecause they’re getting all the help they need from the DINOs led be Bacus and Nelson. I’m not saying this would be easy. But with these clowns for friends, who needs eniemies?
Obama had a pretty good day here in Colorado today. I talked to a friend of mine in Grand Junction who was there and she said he was forceful and direct. He did a good job pushing back on some of the lies and missrepresentations as well from what she said.
August 16th, 2009 at 12:08 amGood crowd as well. About 1,000 people.
BTW, does anyone know of a link for a summary of any kind for the Health Care Bills coming out of the committees? I’ve downloaded the PDFs of the Bills themselves but its over 2400 pages total. Thats a bit much. Any ideas? I’ll check back tomorrow morning on this thread.
August 16th, 2009 at 12:13 amHi, Jim. Obama needs to have more events like that. Was it televised? I didn’t catch any TV or check the internets today.
August 16th, 2009 at 12:14 amHi Jane. I worked all day so I didn’t see it. But there some youtube video that I watched a bit of tonight. BTW, that beaning Wright took was frightening. Glad he’ll be okay but, its the way the season has gone for the Mets. Oh well. LETS GO GIANTS!! Football time!
August 16th, 2009 at 12:19 amI didn’t see David Wright getting hit, either. For some reason Comcast’s tv guide showed the game on at 7, not 4:00. Missed most of the game. This year it’s just sad, which, I suppose, is better than having the Mets tease us into thinking they’re contenders then blowing it. :( I’m just not quite ready for football yet.
August 16th, 2009 at 12:32 amJim, I was going to say something rude – I’m a Cubs fan – but I do hate to see someone get nailed like that. Kills me to say it, but I hope he’s OK …
August 16th, 2009 at 12:35 amYeah, it was a wicked pitch. 94 mph fastball. It hit Wright just over the bill of his batting helmet. I don’t know if I’m quite ready for the Giants yet but at this rate…
August 16th, 2009 at 12:36 amThats okay Moderate Squad. I think all I have to say to a Cubs fan is 1969 to get them going. Then I run like hell! heh.
August 16th, 2009 at 12:39 amMod, thank you for making the effort not to be rude, you would have been risking my ire. ;)
Wright reportedly got into the ambulance without assistance, but I hope that they err on the side of caution and sit him down for a game or two. Don’t want a repeat of the Church concussion saga. At least the team is on a homestand and Wright doesn’t have to fly anywhere.
August 16th, 2009 at 12:40 amWell, it’s only sports after all, but Jim’s right – ‘69 apparently takes more than 40 years to get over…
Sorry ’bout the off-topic thing…
August 16th, 2009 at 12:45 amOkay! Back on topic. I think the Repugs are making a major mistake here. Going after Universal Health Care in countries where it obviously works and has better outcomes should be a non-starter. Or so you would think.
August 16th, 2009 at 12:50 amhttp://edlabor.house.gov/documents/111/pdf/publications/AAHCA-BILLSUMMARY-071409.pdf
A summary of HR 3200
August 16th, 2009 at 12:54 amJosh Marshall had a couple of stories over on Talking Points Memo about health care in Britain and France. Good stories too. Click on the archive for this week to read them.
August 16th, 2009 at 12:54 amOkay gang, bed time for this kid. Have to be up early. See you all tomorrow.
August 16th, 2009 at 12:55 amObama and Biden have both called gun control a “non-starter” issue, but the neoCons have enough of a (dishonest) media presence to send gun sales through the roof. The propaganda machine is about the only thing that still works in the GOP, but in the past 30 years they’ve really got it down to a science – the kind of science that doesn’t embrace evolution, of course…
August 16th, 2009 at 12:57 amOutlaw was worried, and completely misinterpreted, the advisory committee and co-sharing limits found in the HR 3200 bills text.
Here is what it means:
August 16th, 2009 at 12:58 am
I’m shocked! Shocked I tell you!
August 16th, 2009 at 1:13 amOh those death panels. This news should be blasted to the media, wingnuts, and GOP. Great catch by the TIME:
GOP supported ‘death panels’ in 2003
Yes, that’s right. Remember the 2003 Medicare prescription drug bill, the one that passed with the votes of 204 GOP House members and 42 GOP Senators? Anyone want to guess what it provided funding for? Did you say counseling for end-of-life issues and care? Ding ding ding!!
Let’s go to the bill text, shall we? “The covered services are: evaluating the beneficiary’s need for pain and symptom management, including the individual’s need for hospice care; counseling the beneficiary with respect to end-of-life issues and care options, and advising the beneficiary regarding advanced care planning.” The only difference between the 2003 provision and the infamous Section 1233 that threatens the very future and moral sanctity of the Republic is that the first applied only to terminally ill patients. Section 1233 would expand funding so that people could voluntarily receive counseling before they become terminally ill.
So either Republicans were for death panels in 2003 before turning against them now–or they’re lying about end-of-life counseling in order to frighten the bejeezus out of their fellow citizens and defeat health reform by any means necessary. Which is it, Mr. Grassley (”Yea,” 2003)?
http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2009/08/13/oh-those-death-panels/
August 16th, 2009 at 1:22 amThey dont want to defeat health insurance reform because its socialist or will lead to communism, they are using fear to get the wackos [Scanlon term] to oppose something so as to get legislation they want, or dont want, slid under the publics nose and protect the profits of insurance companies whose rates are forever rising.
So, yes, they are frightening the bajeebees out of people for profits sake.
August 16th, 2009 at 1:33 amAnd Grassley, who is more concerned about insurance CEOs, shareholders and stock prices/profits.
Tangent: Bill Gates, I just read, has sold off quite a bit of his shares of pharma and other medical companies.
Why? Im not sure why, but I think Gates doesnt want to be seem as someone who profits from medical care/drugs. If thats the case, then good on Bill and Melinda Gates. Shareholders on health related drugs/care/insurance, shame on you for profiting on peoples illness. Shame on you for hiring lobbyists to frighten people, shame shame shame as Gomer Pyle would say.
August 16th, 2009 at 1:38 amX, they’re opposing health care reform because they all believe what William the Bloody said fifteen years ago when he urged his party to block any health care plan for fear that Democrats would be seen as “the generous protector of middle class interests.”
They can’t have that. They know that if they allow the Democrats to put such a program in place, they will face another generation in the political wilderness, and their corporate patrons in the insurance industry will be pissed.
August 16th, 2009 at 1:44 am.
(CPR) = P A T H E T I C
.
August 16th, 2009 at 1:59 am“The Daily Mail article goes on to note that both Spall and Brickell actually support government-run health care and were advocating for reforms within the NHS, not for its abolition.”
Specifically that it needs more money. Stephen Hawking and now this — they sure can pick ‘em.
They are right, also. Despite being arguably the most extensive and nationalised public health care system in the world, the UK spends much less than most other UHC countries. The chief problem with the NHS (and it’s the only system I’ve had significant experience with) is that it’s not socialised enough.
August 16th, 2009 at 2:03 amMs. Spall and Ms. Brickell need to contact a solicitor and have their contracts gone over with a fine tooth comb.
If the agreements specify the footage was for a documentary only, they have grounds for a lawsuit.
In addition to exposing Conservatives for Patients Rights for the lying frauds they are, they could be forced to reveal the source of their funding.
August 16th, 2009 at 2:16 amSupposedly Mrs Small signed a waiver saying CPR could do whatever they liked with the footage. Don’t have a great deal of sympathy for them, personally, not that that stops CPR being a bunch of lying frauds as you say.
August 16th, 2009 at 2:24 amSorry, O.T.
Armey leaves firm amid health care flap
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0809/26128.html#ixzz0OC1DF9LE
August 16th, 2009 at 2:29 am
No Conservative British politician would dare suggest doing away with the NHS. PM’s Thatcher and Major tried to hurt it as much as they could, but would not dare try to remove that socialist system. If Brits or Canadians or Dutch are not satistifed with their system—-that does not mean they want the US system. Well, an extremely few ill-informed might.
Hey, this thread is not about Bartlebee! Neat!
August 16th, 2009 at 3:04 amOn a side to the article that I linked to in regards to:
GOP supported ‘death panels’ in 2003
Here is the roll call to the 108th Congress of the GOP who voted yea on the bill.
Conference Report Agreed to Measure Number: H.R. 1 (Prescription Drug and Medicare Improvement Act of 2003 )
Measure Title: An act to amend title XVIII of the Social Security Act to provide for a voluntary prescription drug benefit under the medicare program and to strengthen and improve the medicare program, and for other purposes.
Yeas:
Alexander (R-TN)
Allard (R-CO)
Allen (R-VA)
Bennett (R-UT)
Bond (R-MO)
Brownback (R-KS)
Bunning (R-KY)
Burns (R-MT)
Campbell (R-CO)
Chambliss (R-GA)
Cochran (R-MS)
Coleman (R-MN)
Collins (R-ME)
Cornyn (R-TX)
Craig (R-ID)
Crapo (R-ID)
DeWine (R-OH)
Dole (R-NC)
Domenici (R-NM)
Enzi (R-WY)
Fitzgerald (R-IL)
Frist (R-TN)
Grassley (R-IA)
Hatch (R-UT)
Hutchison (R-TX)
Inhofe (R-OK)
Kyl (R-AZ)
Lugar (R-IN)
McConnell (R-KY)
Murkowski (R-AK)
Roberts (R-KS)
Santorum (R-PA)
Sessions (R-AL)
Shelby (R-AL)
Smith (R-OR)
Snowe (R-ME)
Specter (R-PA)
Stevens (R-AK)
Talent (R-MO)
Thomas (R-WY)
Voinovich (R-OH)
Warner (R-VA)
http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=108&session=1&vote=00459#name
Stay classy Chucky Grassley!
August 16th, 2009 at 3:44 amThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
I envy the right. They get off the hook for everything–hypocrisy, slander, election theft, criminal incompetence, marital infidelity, gluttony, complete absence of a sense of humor, homophobia, theft, treason, war crimes, shooting their friends in the face–all because they work for God, so none of it counts! Lucky bastards.
Bait & Switch
August 16th, 2009 at 6:54 amWhen “the disgraced former CEO of Columbia/HCA Healthcare Rick Scott” is sitting in prison then we get our democracry back.
Until then. Democracy belongs to the biggest criminals among us!!
Corporations are, by nature, GODLESS. And the people that run them, like Rick Scott, must behave in GODLESS ways to make money.
If this country wants to claim that it is a Christian nation then people like Rick Scott would be sitting in prison!! For his entire life!
August 16th, 2009 at 8:20 amI posted the BBC video on YouTube Friday:
“I was duped” – Brits furious over GOP healthcare claims
August 16th, 2009 at 8:47 amI lived and worked for six years in England, and never meet one person who would give up their health care system for anything like ours.
In fact, for being the richest country on the planet, they think we are all nuts, for having the health care system we have.
August 16th, 2009 at 9:16 amwatching CBS Sunday Morning… had a pretty good segment on the healthcare debate – very fair and informative… included a bit of history as to how Medicare came to be (hint: the costs were not known)…
the segment ended with one guy quoting winston churchill:
“[You can always] count on Americans to do the right thing –
after they’ve tried everything else.”
so there is hope…
August 16th, 2009 at 9:37 amdixie blood says: Corporations are, by nature, GODLESS. And the people that run them, like Rick Scott, must behave in GODLESS ways to make money
Actually, Atheists in America are the most ethical ‘religious demographic’, so please stop insulting us by putting us in the same group with these criminals.
97% of those in jail admit to reading the bible… While only 0.2% in prison are Atheists.
August 16th, 2009 at 9:44 amWomen in Japan, which has a public health insurance option, currently have the longest life expectancy rate in the world. Japanese men place at number 4
August 16th, 2009 at 9:59 amLet’s not forget….it was Claire McCaskill during one of her town hall meetings who asked the crowd how many of them were on Medicare. Lots of people raised their hands. Then she asked them all who would give up their Medicare….and no one raised their hand.
Right wingers are freaking liars!!!!
August 16th, 2009 at 10:08 amOne of the things Republicans fight against is an adequate educational funding which manifests itself in ignorance and fear. The ignorance and fear is a pre-condition that Republicans use to manipulate citizens into voting against their real self interest. How many people who teabag against health care reform have no insurance? How many people rail against Government run health care use Medicare? How many people realize there are death panels run by insurance companies who are only responsible to the bottom line not their policy holders?
August 16th, 2009 at 10:11 amIt is important to realize that Britain spends only 40% of what we spend in the U.S. per capita on health care. Britain does have lousy health care, but imagine what our care would be like if 60% of funding was suddenly removed from a system that already leaves 50 million Americans uninsured. There are many better models for the U.S. to follow, including France, Australia, Canada, Germany, or Sweden.
August 16th, 2009 at 10:13 amEven if it was a problem there, why wouldn’t we try to make it better here? It’s funny that the assumption is that we’ll do it horribly… doesn’t say much about us.
All I know is that I’d like it if I saw my tax dollars actually going to something tangible that makes a difference in my life.
August 16th, 2009 at 10:15 amRick Scott lied!!!!?!?!?!? Tell me it ain’t so, I can hardly believe my ears. Oh, what’s that, this is the same scumbag who was fined 1.3 BILLION dollars for FRAUD on the U.S. Government (me and you.) Oh that fraudster.
Hence the lying.
Oh and BTW,
The “United States of AMERICA ” is in “North AMERICA “, which is different from Central AMERICA and South AMERICA and, yet, interestingly they are all part of “The Americas”.
Amerigo Vespucci must be very happy.
August 16th, 2009 at 10:18 amhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amerigo_Vespucci
#61 Verbalkint says
“There are many better models for the U.S. to follow, including France, Australia, Canada, Germany, or Sweden.”
And do not forget the totally U.S. subsidized ISRAELI MANDATORY national healthcare.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_Israel
AHEM:
August 16th, 2009 at 10:20 am“All Israeli citizens are entitled to the same Uniform Benefits Package, regardless of which organization they are a member of, and treatment under this package is funded for all citizens regardless of their financial means.”
President Obama’s Colorado Town Hall will be rebroadcast on C-Span SUNDAY 10:30 est.
Followed by Sen. Grassley’s Town Hall…. for contrast.
btw…you can watch c-span live streaming on your computer.
And I think Mr. Hawking needs to make his OWN Commercial.
August 16th, 2009 at 10:24 amdixie blood says:
When “the disgraced former CEO of Columbia/HCA Healthcare Rick Scott” is sitting in prison then we get our democracry back.
Until then. Democracy belongs to the biggest criminals among us!!
Corporations are, by nature, GODLESS. And the people that run them, like Rick Scott, must behave in GODLESS ways to make money.
If this country wants to claim that it is a Christian nation then people like Rick Scott would be sitting in prison!! For his entire life!
Dixie, the last part to add is:
And all coporations are disbanded for they are enterprises with the implicit intent to criple and burden humanity with their only intent of making profit at humans expense.
[There fixed.]
August 16th, 2009 at 10:26 amVirtual Pebble says:
oh wonderful. Rick Scott, magic health care insurance felon strikes again. There oughta be a law. Hm, actually, there may be; anybody have a copy of the Truth in Advertising legislation, ie, the CFR/US Code number?
Swat the turd with a law book!
Uh, Virt pebble,
FOX (Friends Of Xenophobes) Network SUED to be allowed to lie with impunity in their newscasts and WON. So “TRUTH IN ADVERTSING” is HYSTERICAL to even think about when it is juxtapositioned against “LYING IN NEWS”
Truth in Advertising
Lying in News.
These are the depths that the disgusting GOP has dragged us down into over the course of 40 years. Ever since Nixon, the GOP has been hell bent on getting control over the media.
August 16th, 2009 at 10:40 amConservatives for Patient’s Rights has really shown their desperation. The rightwingers will stop at nothing to stop healtcare reform. Ultimately – they will fail.
August 16th, 2009 at 10:47 amIf anything proves the Repub shouting point “we’ve got the best healthcare in the world” is a blatant lie, its the thousands of Americans that showed up at the Forum in Los Angeles for a free medical clinic, run by Remote Area Medical. A thousand people were seen on the first day, with many more turned away because of not enough resources. Its supposed to run for 8 days, and yet many, many people in need will not be seen.
It makes the US look like a third world banana republic in the eyes of the rest of the world.
With such an indisputable showing of the need of so many Americans for basic health services, it is beyond belief there are so many opposed to reform.
Shameful!
Peace :)
August 16th, 2009 at 11:09 amUnB,
I am an atheist myself. I use the “godless” phrase to drive a wedge between so-called Christians and the cruel, and deadly capitalism they more truly love and worship. Being “godless” is nobel in my world, but, not in thier’s. They are weak. I am strong.
As an atheist I am positive that one doesn’t need a formal belief system to be a good person. However, Christians seem to have no ability to do right, with or without morals in place, as long as capitalism is their true saviour.
Christians, IMHO, need to address all of their godless holdings. They seek wealth while stepping on the poor to get it. They want to be left alone with their god but, want everyone else to join them in the public square, or school, for prayer.
BTW, calling something “godless” does not equate them or it with atheism. It is an intended insult to those who need the crutch of religion and not those that do not.
dixie.
August 16th, 2009 at 11:18 amThe funny thing is… nobody in the United States is calling for a British-style system of socialized medicine. The furthest extent Americans seem to want is single-payer socialized health insurance, with many willing to compromise and have a public option.
This speaks volumes about the integrity of Mr. Scott. Of course, he had none to begin with.
August 16th, 2009 at 11:42 amVerbalKint says:
“…Britain does have lousy health care…”
Every time I used it, it was great:
August 16th, 2009 at 11:49 amappendicitis, root canal, broken nose, dental exams, eye exams, etc.
And stevietheman is right, it was never even on the table to begin with—so why attack it? Because there is nothing proposed they can legitimately attack?
August 16th, 2009 at 11:51 amDixie – I’m an atheist myself, and what I saw during the 8 years of Chimpy’s reign of terror and I continue to see now are so-called “Christians” gleefully and self-righteously throwing their fellow Americans to the lions because they’re *___fill in the blank___* (black, poor, gay, illegal, liberal, etc.)
It disgusts me to the depths of my soul that these people, who claim to follow Jesus (who was the original liberal) behave more like the Biblical depiction of Satan.
That’s pretty much how I became an atheist. I used to be a Christian, but that word tastes like ashes in my mouth – I cannot be a part of what I see.
August 16th, 2009 at 11:59 amThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Only by bigots like yourself.
August 16th, 2009 at 12:07 pmThis is just a blatant lie. You can’t prove it and I challenge you to back up your assertion since you are the fool that made it.
Even if it were true:
Why is this relevant? Nothing currently on the table is like Englands system (although if it was, I’d favor it over what we have now).
A better system to compare is what Switzerland has. Their system is a bit closer to what’s being proposed here (although there are still some differences) — in that they have government-administered health care that competes with private plans, and their citizens are free to choose what they want.
You and the rest of the naysayers constantly throw the Canadian system (or the British system) around as your main debate point, and I can only imagine the reason you do so is in an effort to convince people this is the system being discussed by our Congress. It’s not. So can you douse your burning pants and be honest, at least?
August 16th, 2009 at 12:11 pmOutlaw284 says:
“…For the US, the practical question is, can the adoption of another country’s health care system offer a reasonable chance of improving US private sector methods?”
How could that be a practical question if none of the bills actually proposes the adoption of another country’s health care system? Strawman?
August 16th, 2009 at 12:32 pmFred, they also seem incapable of actually assessing those system’s strengths and weaknesses with any honesty. They present anecdotal horror stories as if such an approach was an intelligent means of evaluating the system itself, yet they’re not willing to subject our own health care delivery system to the same standards of evaluation.
If you want to judge a system based only its worst-case failures, then I’m afraid our own would not fare any better in that competition than it does in most others.
Of course, there are some, like our Outlaw friend here, who simply lie outright.
August 16th, 2009 at 1:03 pmFred
I guess you didn’t even bother to read the article from the Guardian. It states that England has been doing this since 2008 since that is the date on the article. But then since your liberal talking heads are saying that you wouldn’t believe it anyway. Oh and the Guardian that reported it is in the UK so I am pretty sure that they should know.
And as to the US Bill not being like Englands NHS. Then why is it that the government wants to be able to tell you what plan you can have, IE a committee that “recommends” what plan you should have.Right the government recommeding what plan that will never happen they will tell you waht plan you get and if you don’t believe that then ask someone on medicare if they get to pick what ever they want.
Not to mention the Swiss plan is nothing like what the democrats are trying to get passed.
Since the Swiss plan allows individuals — not employers or the government — choose from a broad array of health plans, sold by private insurance companies with the government providing generous subsidies for those who couldn’t otherwise afford it.
Notice they buy it from Insurance COMPANIES not the government. And what does the US plan want to do? Make everyone end up on a government plan with NO insurance companies. And all you have to do to find that out is read the section of the Bill that says NEW ENROLLMENT and you find that out.
And Republicans have been saying that they should have a plan to cover those who can’t afford it but your Democrats don’t want that.
Republicans have been saying that doing that would be cheaper then what the Democrats want but the Democrats don’t want that.
I am all for giving people credits to be able to buy health care but the democrats don’t want that. I am also for tort reform which would bring the cost of health care down. Texas have proven that and yet people want to try and say that texas has the highest uninsured in the country. Ok fine but how many of them choose NOT to buy insurance.
Here I will break it down for you. There are “47 million” people in this country that are uninsured and the numbers go like this.
uninsured in the US include:
•9,000,000 Millionaires
August 16th, 2009 at 1:05 pm•27,000,000 people who make more than $50,000 per year, but choose not to get insurance
•22,000,000 Young adults who can afford insurance, but choose not to
•14,000,000 People who can already get medicaid, but choose not to
•11,000,000 Illegal Immigrants
•23,000,000 People who are actually insured. That’s right; you’ve been lied to…surprised?
And here is the link for it.
http://butnowyouknow.wordpress.com/2009/…
ralph the wonder llama
August 16th, 2009 at 1:09 pmSince I am lieing then show me where those articles are wrong. I gave you the links now prove them wrong.
They also, need it be pointed out, tend to rely on right-of-center think tanks such as the “free market solution”-oriented National Center for Policy Analysis for their “evidence”, support and statistical breakdowns, and they present them as if they are unbiased and should be taken seriously by anybody but their own choir.
August 16th, 2009 at 1:09 pmWell, to start, you outright lied yesterday when you claimed that “Obama quadrupled the deficit”.
August 16th, 2009 at 1:10 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
ralph the wonder llama
August 16th, 2009 at 1:13 pmWell if i lied then show me where because the CBO is the one that put those numbers out. So by all means show me where the CBO lied
ralph the wonder llama
You still haven’t proven them wrong. All you can do is come up with excusses
August 16th, 2009 at 1:15 pmralph the wonder llama
So is the CBO wrong or not.
August 16th, 2009 at 1:21 pm67. Death Counselor sez:…
Damn, I’d wondered why bait and switch advertising had become so popular among retailers again.
I go off and 8 to 5 it or focus on something else, and when I’m not paying attention, some shit like that happens.
Figures that it’s Faux, too. Murdoch is a global slime seller, not just some podunk weekly out in the boonies, so he has a real incentive for doing false advertising of any stripe. That’s before we ever get to the discussion of corruption in his very own self and media empire.
August 16th, 2009 at 1:22 pmMy wife has priced health insurance. She is an ex-smoker and I have a history of cancer in my family (my father died at 60). The cheapest health insurance she could find that was anything beyond catastrophic coverage designed to simply protect our house (i.e. deductibles of around 10 grand) runs around $350 per person. That’s $700 per month. That’s $8400 per year for coverage that still leaves us out-of-pocket for anything short of surgery and a multi-day stay in the hospital.
We could step up and get more comprehensive insurance that would actually cover the kind of health care that people really use, but then we’re talking $600 to $700 per person per month.
When health insurance costs upwards of $10,000 to $15,000 per year, it’s pretty reasonable to see that asking someone to spend 20% of their income on health insurance effectively prices them out of the market.
Yet you and your fellow insurance company “wealth-care” advocates cite this statistic of people with $50k incomes as if it were simply evidence of “irresponsible rich folk” who could afford it but would rather buy plasma TVs.
It’s another example of the dishonesty of the folks who want to preserve the status quo for the insurance companies.
August 16th, 2009 at 1:26 pmYou quote a right wing blog who’s headline is “Cash for clukers creates poverty and pollutions” and you claim the data is from the CBO but no link.
What’s to challenge. You just lie and it’s pretty clear right there in front for everyone to see.
August 16th, 2009 at 1:27 pmHey Outlaw, you presented the opinions of a right-wing blogger who sites mainly articles written in the Washington Times, which is a right-wing, wacko propaganda rag owned by the Reverend Moon. STRIKE ONE!
You also site the Swiss system, which is very similar to the idea most Dems are pressing, and claim that this is NOT what Dems are proposing. You seem to think Dems want to “socialize” medicine, so your premise is 180 degrees off to begin with. STRIKE TWO!
Then, you re-vomit out the tired old talking point – “you haven’t read the bill!” Hey stupid, you haven’t read it either. STRIKE THREE, YOU’RE OUTTA THERE!!!
August 16th, 2009 at 1:31 pmOutlaw284, as for your obstofucation of facts surrounding britons health care. Suck on this:
http://blnz.com/news/2009/08/12/health_system_hits_back_critics_4853.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/13/british-health-system-hit_n_258418.html
August 16th, 2009 at 1:32 pmI’ll lay it out for you one more time, Outlaw:
The FY 2009 deficit falls under a Bush-signed budget. Obama has added to it since he took office, but when Bush handed over the keys to the country on January 20, 2009, the federal deficit was estimated at $1.2 trillion.
This was the deficit that President Bush handed to President Obama.
Are we agreed on the timeline to this point?
The most extreme estimates for the deficit for this FY are now $2 trillion, after the President’s stimulus package and various other emergency measures intended to shore up the crumbling economy. Most estimates place it between $1.67 T and $1.8 T.
Clearly, President Obama has not “quadrupled the deficit in six months”, as you claimed. He has not tripled it, nor even doubled it.
You have been unable to show that your original comment was accurate, and have been reduced to throwing straw men in the road and moving the goal posts.
You lied. Flat-out lied.
August 16th, 2009 at 1:37 pmThe ugliest and most absurd of “outlaw” many absurd, illogical beliefs:
“•27,000,000 people who make more than $50,000 per year, but choose not to get insurance”
Hey stupid, health insurance premiums for my family of four just got increased by another $200 per month making the total we pay just in premiums to be over $1700 a month. That’s over $20K a year, close to 35 to 40% of my income and it doesn’t even include out-of-pocket expenses. People making $50K are NOT “choosing” to go uninsured. You would have to be a raving lunatic to believe people in that income bracket would rather be uninsured. You would have to possess absolutely NO ability to think critically to come to that hair-brained conclusion.
Outlaw, you are either a complete moron, or a sociopath pretending to be a complete moron. Those are the ONLY possibilities.
August 16th, 2009 at 1:38 pmSuffice to say that Outlaw has proven to be so maladroit at actually making sense of legislation and describing it accurately, that he has zero credibility by this point.
Although citing CNS and WaTimes as sources certainly gives his arguments a patina of right-wing street cred.
August 16th, 2009 at 1:40 pmI like the way this NinerFan works Ralph.
August 16th, 2009 at 1:42 pmralph the wonder llama
August 16th, 2009 at 1:43 pmSO You make $50,000 a year and you pay $8,400 a year in health care. You are paying 23% in taxes that means you have $38,500 left after taxes and you take $8,400 from that and it leaves $30,100 which works out to $2,508 a month. I wish i made that much. But since I am not going to complain about my $450 per month that I am paying for my Insurance I am not going to complain. Oh and I don’t get that through a company and I only have to pay a $10 copay when i go to the doctor and a $10 copay for meds. And that is for my family. So I would say that you are looking in the wrong places.
I’m with ya, Fred.
August 16th, 2009 at 1:44 pmOutlaw,
I don’t think there’s a democratic government on the face of the planet (except maybe the Swedes – they’re always doing something different – I think that long winter gives them too much time to dream shit up :)) that really wants to be in the nuts and bolts of everyday health care and everyday insurance operations of any sort, including health insurance. The politicians want to do politics and be paid for it; the civil service people want to left to play with their rubber stamps and forms; only the public health service types want to play doctor and none of them want to play insurance claims adjuster. the public health service folks are a very very small minority in government anyway, no matter which level you look at, and I’m talking bona fide PHS types, not Health & Welfare or Health & Human Services bureaucrats.
Government, however, be that federal, state, or local, is the only organization, at the moment, that can provide proper regulatory oversight and quality assurance in the health care and associated insurance sector of our society and economy. Whatever it is we have now needs to be improved. What we have now is degrading (in more than one sense of the word), inefficient and screwed up.
Quit barking at people who are discussing improvements. Go bark at the Congresscritters who are standing in the way of a meaningful discussion of improvement and who are serving as the stalking horses of people and corporations who are only interested in gouging the public.
August 16th, 2009 at 1:45 pmOutlaw284
You’re a dipshit. My wife and I are in our late 50’s and are paying 1500 a month for insurance.
Of course you nit-wit, you can get reasonable prices if you are young and healthy. You are stupid to the max if you think that will stay the same.
August 16th, 2009 at 1:46 pmralph the wonder llama
August 16th, 2009 at 1:48 pmYou haven’t proven that the CBO is wrong. Now you must have a problem with the phrase. ” ADDED TO BUSH’S BUDGET” but then you don’t want to see that fact.
The 2009 budget is BOTH Bush and Obama’s budget. Now as I said before show me where the CBO IS WRONG. Since the CBO is what the government has gone by for years.
But since you can’t all you can do is come up with crap stories that are NOT from the CBO i guess I am right.
Fred, Ralph, thanks for the kind words. Fred, we were at about $1500 a month until last week when, with no explanation, they raised it to about $1725 a month… and, for a variety of reasons, we’re stuck there unless we want to, ahem… “choose” not to have insurance. God, what tools people like “Outlaw” are.
August 16th, 2009 at 1:50 pmHey right wing idiot, did the CBO also claim you were potty trained? Without a link, what’s stopping you?
August 16th, 2009 at 1:51 pmAll,
In my own encounters with Outlaw, I’d have to say that I’ve not crossed paths with someone who is so consistently capable of “picking and choosing” and then misinterpreting what he’s read since I was a South Ron Talibaptist. He picks a sentence here or a verse there that might support whatever argument it is he’s having with himself, but in the gestalt sense, it’s as likely to be off base as on. I’m sure he has a gripe, but it may be rabies; the barking attitude is consistent though.
August 16th, 2009 at 1:51 pmHey Outlaw: Rick Scott is your guy.
Favorite Rick Scott moment: when asked about the largest government fraud case he is involved with and it’s still winding its way through the court, he answers: “nobody has gone to jail.”
August 16th, 2009 at 1:53 pmFred
August 16th, 2009 at 1:53 pmThe dipshit is you for the simple fact that I am not that much younger then you are. Since I am in my 40’s I guess that makes you the IDIOT. Not to mention both my grandparents died of cancer on my dad’s side and my grandfather on my mom’s side which puts me in that “high risk” group for cancer. Now who is the dipsit. Oh and i STILL us tobacco. That being said I guess that makes you the DIPSHIT. SO keep trying.
By the way I have friends in their 60’s that are paying about the same that i do for the same health insurance coverage.
Now go talk your CRAP to someone that doesn’t know any better.
Outlaw284
The president submits a budget for each fiscal year. Bush’s budget is in effect. There is no co-budget. Stop making an ass out of yourself.
August 16th, 2009 at 1:54 pmOutlaw, I never said how much money I make, nor did I say how much I pay in taxes. I extrapolated from my personal experience to the burden that would befall a typical family with a 50k income.
You, on the other hand, generalized your own situation in order to present the implication that those who earn 50k a year could easily find good insurance, because you claim to have. I don’t know anything about your age, medical history, family composition or any other factor involved. And even if you had provided any of that info, we couldn’t trust it because you’re already a proven liar.
But since you claim to make less than 50k, it would seem that a burden of 5k-plus is not insignificant at your income level. The fact that you think it’s just fine and dandy, and that there’s no reason to cut into insurance company profits just to cover the most vulnerable members of our society doesn’t really change the fact that our health care delivery system costs more per capita and offers worse outcomes on average than almost every other industrialized nation sees.
August 16th, 2009 at 1:55 pmMcWars
August 16th, 2009 at 1:56 pmYour and idiot. The congress can change anything in that budget any time they want.
SO I guess that makes you the number 2 idiot now
I’m in the UK, and i can tell you right now from experience our system is a laughing stock, which is why NO OTHER COUNTRY in the world has copied it, some have similar systems, but not the same.
our cancer survival rates are much lower than the US”s, we have huge red tape issues which keep top medicines from getting into patients hands, hygiene is poor, we’re years behind the US in terms of advancements because nobody wants to invest money into health care because there’s no money to be made, there’s no competition therefore it just stagnates.
this is just a couple of the problems, i know people over here like the NHS, but that is down to the fact they have never known another system, and even the people who like the NHS will readily admit it’s in a rut, people like the IDEA of a government run system, but in reality it’s just not a good way of distributing health care, yeh everyone gets it for “free” (taxed to death), but it’s shit, so here is your choice
shit health care for all
or
top health care for most people.
I’d take the second option and work out another way of getting health care to poorer people, something needs to be done in the US about insurance issues, but i would not go down our road if i was you, because once you’ve got it you’re stuck with it .
August 16th, 2009 at 1:58 pmralph the wonder llama
August 16th, 2009 at 1:59 pmYou still haven’t shown where it is that what i posted is lies. All you can say is that they are lies.
Show where they are lies. And when you do then I will think about it. But since you can’t prove the CBO wrong and all you can do about other things I post is say they are right wing that doesn’t prove anything.
You haven’t proven the article about the Hospitals in England wrong.
I am still waiting. Show me links proving what the links I posted are saying is wrong.
Outlaw284 says:
I am paying for my Insurance I am not going to complain. Oh and I don’t get that through a company and I only have to pay a $10 copay when i go to the doctor and a $10 copay for meds. And that is for my family. So I would say that you are looking in the wrong places.
You’re not complaining because you’re a masochist lemming. The “wrong place” is not the public option, something that a) is just that, an option and b) a place for people to put their money and see reduced premiums – much lower overhead, no lobbyist money, CEO pay, and a more effectively managed money pool.
August 16th, 2009 at 1:59 pmOutlaw, it’s not up to me to “prove that the CBO is wrong”.
You claimed “Obama quadrupled the deficit in six months”.
That’s a pretty easily objectively understood statement.
It means that between Jan 20, 2009, when Obama took office, and July 20, 2009, six months later, the deficit has grown four times the size.
That means that the projected deficit on Jan. 20, which most estimates have pegged at $1.2 T, would have to have grown to $4.8 T on July 20.
Can you show me anyone who estimates that the deficit on July 20 was $4.8 T?
No?
Then you lied. Flat-out.
All your silly little grade-school card tricks can’t disguise that fact.
August 16th, 2009 at 2:00 pmralph the wonder llama says:
You obviously do not live in NYC. This is only ONE insurer that will write individual coverage (HIPNY) and it is more than double that amount.
August 16th, 2009 at 2:02 pmVirtual Pebble
August 16th, 2009 at 2:02 pmYou haven’t proven what I have posted to be wrong either. Show me the links that prove what I have posted wrong.
Outlaw284
Hey anti-government terrorist, where is it precedented in modern american history that congress puts the breaks on an enacted FY budget? We’re two months away from a new budget – finally, the George Bush hell hole begins a turnaround throughout government.
Stop making an ass out of yourself.
August 16th, 2009 at 2:05 pmThere’s a third possibility, the troll may be a psychopath from Tampa.
August 16th, 2009 at 2:06 pmBoy, you sure don’t read very well, do you?
You said, “Obama has quadrupled the deficit in six months”.
(The link will take you back to that specific comment, BTW, if you want to verify.)
I’ve since explained several times how there is no truth to your claim.
Now, you could argue that your initial erroneous claim was “misinformed” or “inartfully expressed” and thus not a lie.
But every defense you have mounted since shows that you are either incapable of understanding simple concepts, or that you have no interest in reality-based arguments. The first possibility leads to the conclusion that you’re not really lying, just intellectually deficient. The second means you’re lying. So which is it?
August 16th, 2009 at 2:08 pmI don’t know how it works in right wing world(actually I do) but among intelligent debaters it is the person putting forth the asserstion that bears the weight of proof. Otherwise you can say anything, oh yeah, you do.
byw, if you are paying what you say for insurance you have maybe a catastropic policy at best. Good luck with that .
August 16th, 2009 at 2:09 pmThat seems to be a rapidly forming consensus opinion.
August 16th, 2009 at 2:10 pmBut but but our grandchildren and grandchildrens’ children will be paying for this evil domestic spending that — shh!! — helps our grandchildren! Maybe it doesn’t help them as much as the $3 trillion price tag for blowing up brown people, but we can always hide that invoice from our grandchildren’s children.
August 16th, 2009 at 2:11 pmNo you’re not:
http://blnz.com/news/2009/08/12/health_system_hits_back_critics_4853.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/13/british-health-system-hit_n_258418.html
August 16th, 2009 at 2:12 pmCBO Scores Confirm Deficit Neutrality of Health Insurance Reform Bill
http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/104xx/doc10464/hr3200.pdf
August 16th, 2009 at 2:14 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
republicanshatefacts
August 16th, 2009 at 2:18 pmAre you talking about facts like pap smears prevent breast cancer. That is what you tried to use as a fact right.
That made me laugh, thank you
No, it’s up to you to provide a link that backs up your lie.
Until you do, you are just a liar. We didn’t make assersions we can’t back up.
You are the liar. It has been proven. Live with it.
August 16th, 2009 at 2:20 pmPretty bizarre ranting, Outlaw. You’re operating on the expectation that people here will accept your string of shit in lieu of LINK.
August 16th, 2009 at 2:23 pmDon’t ask Outlaw for facts, Troll Central only supplies him with daily talking points and right wing spam.
August 16th, 2009 at 2:24 pmMcWars
August 16th, 2009 at 2:27 pmDid you even bother to read what you linked to? Because it states that the “According to CBO’s and JCT’s assessment, enacting H.R. 3200 would result in a
net increase in the federal budget deficit of $239 billion over the 2010-2019 period.
That estimate reflects a projected 10-year cost of the bill’s insurance coverage
provisions of $1,042 billion, partly offset by net spending changes that CBO
estimates would save $219 billion over the same period, and by revenue provisions
that JCT estimates would increase federal revenues by about $583 billion over those
10 years.”
So much for being Deficit Neutrality
#103 NinerFan
I don’t want to sound like a smart-aleck, but the insurance company probably raised their rates to pay for all the negative ads, busing protestors, etc..
Who better to pay for corporate astroturf than the general public? The money sure ain’t coming from the pockets of a CEO.
Just sayin’.
August 16th, 2009 at 2:28 pmrepublicanshatefacts
August 16th, 2009 at 2:32 pmSo what you are saying is that someone who makes $50,000 a year doesn’t pay 15% in federal tax. And if you figure it out I figured the state at 8% which could be different depending on the state.
So you didn’t graduate from middle school. You don’t understand that “according to” does not mean anything unless you can prove it.
I can say according to phycologists today that you are mentally deranged and it carries just as much weight as your statement…
August 16th, 2009 at 2:33 pmWhat’s the contradiction again, troll? Because you’re making a mountain out of an antpile — yanking one sentence out of the report as if it corroborates your claim and negates the entire report.
Cut out the act.
August 16th, 2009 at 2:34 pmFred
August 16th, 2009 at 2:35 pmYou are an idiot and you just proved it. You need to go look up what your liberal friend linked to. That statement was straight from the CBO that he linked.
Once again another kool-aide drinking liberal that doesn’t even believe his own liberals links.
Thanks for showing just how much of an IDIOT you are.
Outlaw: “Since I am in my 40’s I guess that makes you the IDIOT. Not to mention both my grandparents died of cancer on my dad’s side and my grandfather on my mom’s side which puts me in that “high risk” group for cancer. Now who is the dipsit. Oh and i STILL us tobacco.”
Like I posted, it’s over $1700 a month for my family of four not counting out-of-pocket expense. No history of cancer, no obesity, no smoking, and one child with Type I diabetes.
So, I think “outlaw” is b.s.ing.
August 16th, 2009 at 2:37 pmI know you 3rd graders have trouble with big words. I understand that someone told you it was there. It’s not. You’re just lying. No surpise there.
August 16th, 2009 at 2:40 pmNo, you simpleton.
He wou;ld not “have to spend $4.8 trillion”. He would have to increase the deficit to $4.8 trillion.
And more, he would have had to have done that by July 20.
I’ve explained where the deficit stood (or was projected to stand) when Bush left office.
I’ve explained where the deficit is projected to stand today.
Pretty simple. Even you should be able to grasp it. Yet you seem incapable. I suspect that is just a dodge, though. I suspect you’re just a flat-out liar and you prefer to play stupid rather than admit your lie once you’re caught in it.
August 16th, 2009 at 2:41 pmrepublicanshatefacts
August 16th, 2009 at 2:41 pmYou IDIOTS are making this to easy.
The 239 billion is from 2010-2019. Now if you want the numbers for each year then read your own link.
Deficit Impact 11 -24 -36 -1 5 40 58 58 62 65 and these numbers are from 2010 to 2019. And if you don’t understand the numbers that have a minus means you subtract the others mean you add.
Wouldn’t be the first time.
August 16th, 2009 at 2:42 pmHouse Health Reform Bill Produces A $6 Billion Surplus
http://www.ourfuture.org/blog-entry/2009073020/house-health-reform-bill-produces-6-billion-surplus
You’re in rabid denial mode, troll.
August 16th, 2009 at 2:43 pmOutlaw, people like you might have a smidgen of credibility on budgetary matters if any of you had said word-1 while Bush was running a $12-billion a month illegal war off the budget.
August 16th, 2009 at 2:43 pmNinerFan says:
Outlaw is a sock-puppet whose only here to distract and disrupt.
August 16th, 2009 at 2:45 pmHe isn’t intellectually developed enough to participate in an intelligent debate.
Outlaw is perfect for Whack-a-troll. Get out your mallet and join in on the fun.
This seems to be especially true these days. They have run out of their normal duplicitious actions and fear mongering isn’t working anymore so now they just flat out lie.
I’m kinda enjoying thier situation if you want to know the truth.
August 16th, 2009 at 2:46 pmThat’s a good point, NinerFan, but then they’d have to contend with the fact that all of their fiscal ideas have failed over the last thirty years. So that might damage their credibility again.
August 16th, 2009 at 2:47 pmrepublicanshatefacts
August 16th, 2009 at 2:49 pmIf your taxable income is $50,000 then yes you do pay 25% but your gross income isn’t your taxable income.
Now as I said you are making this to easy.
ralph the wonder llama
August 16th, 2009 at 2:51 pmOnce again you show that you are an IDIOT. The Republcans haven’t had control for the last 30 years. The mojority of those 30 years have been controled by the DEMOCRATS
You’ve been posting for hours, claiming the CBO relishes in your vomit, troll, but haven’t provided a single link.
You’re in the deep minority. It’s time for a progressive agenda.
Question: Why do right-wingers always worry about cost when it comes to domestic items that don’t massively subsidize too-big-to-fail operations? And weapons systems that regularly have cost overruns and are extremely expensive to maintain. And the $3 price tag for the Iraquagmire.
Is domestic spending going to pay for itself? It has a lot better chance to yield returns. The Iraquagmire will not pay for itself — zero chance.
Only when it comes time to focus on the people, to reemphasize promoting the general welfare, do they come out of their caves.
As a relatively young person, I want nothing to do with the GOP. A bunch of children in adults clothing, mostly bad examples of what it means to be a great American. Lunatics have overrun the party and rational conservatives on the ground are looking in disbelief at the cesspool ‘Outlaw’ has made out of the party.
August 16th, 2009 at 2:52 pmrepublicanshatefacts
August 16th, 2009 at 2:54 pmI guess you just can’t read. That 239 is what the Democrats health care bill would add. If you were smart enough to even be able to read then you would have known that.
Should i send you a hook on phonics.
Your math is wrong and your English is wrong. Typical for a 3rd grader I guess.
August 16th, 2009 at 2:55 pmHooked on phonics won’t help with your flawed history comprehension.
Maybe you aren’t even a 3rd grader, maybe 2nd.
August 16th, 2009 at 2:56 pmOf course the CBO is going to consider anything that could go wrong with a proposal. The GOP thinks that it’s all-or-nothing, a bad idea even if the benefits outweigh the detriments because detriments exist in the first place. Yet they ignore the massive detriments of the insurance monopoly!
August 16th, 2009 at 2:58 pmOutlaw284 says:
republicanshatefacts
I guess you just can’t read. That 239 is what the Democrats health care bill would add. If you were smart enough to even be able to read then you would have known that.
Should i send you a hook on phonics.
You read only what you want to read. Here in reality we take a holistic approach and utilize full reading comprehension.
Say “NO!” all you like. In the meantime, you need to start paying down the $3 trillion price tag on the Iraquagmire. You wanted it, you pay for it.
August 16th, 2009 at 3:01 pmMcWars
August 16th, 2009 at 3:02 pmIf you want to talk about Iraq then tell me why is it Obama hasn’t gotten us out of the region. He said that he was going to and yet he is sending more troops over there now.
Here’s the real difference.
for a government run program admin costs 3%
current under private insurance admin costs 25% or more.
That alone will pay for it.
August 16th, 2009 at 3:02 pmLiar, no new troops to Iraq. The enemy was never there.
you lose again and go back one grade to first grade.
August 16th, 2009 at 3:04 pm116.outlaw284 sez:…
I don’t gotta show you no stinking links, outlaw. (Find it yourself)
Now that you mention it though, in recent days you’ve completely misinterpreted the end of life counseling clause of HR3200, the clause grandfathering in existing health insurance plans in HR3200, and the Constitution of the United States of America. That seems to be more than sufficient misinterpretation and error to me.
August 16th, 2009 at 3:04 pmrepublicanshatefacts
August 16th, 2009 at 3:04 pmWhy don’t you go look at the link that McWars put on there.
Since it was put out July 17 2009.
So i guess you are saying that McWars is wrong to.
Virtual Pebble
August 16th, 2009 at 3:06 pmI put what it said exactly in the bill and you called it wrong so the lier is you. The one that can’t prove anything is YOU and yet you can’t prove any of what you say.
Outlaw284 says:
McWars
If you want to talk about Iraq then tell me why is it Obama hasn’t gotten us out of the region. He said that he was going to and yet he is sending more troops over there now.
We’re not our of Iraq because there’s something called a logistical entanglement. You slowly got us deeply entrenched in this mess and yanking out quickly is impossible. Control of major cities have been turned over to the Iraqis. You’ll be complaining at any rate, so please, shut up. You’re a failure of a human being.
August 16th, 2009 at 3:06 pmrepublicanshatefacts
August 16th, 2009 at 3:09 pmso how is sending 17,000 more troops withdrawing. Talk about lieing.
120 & 122. Reggie & republicanshatefacts say:…
oh shit, guys, he isn’t from Tampa, he’s the TexisChainSaw Troll from Lower Bumfrack in the Piney Woods…
August 16th, 2009 at 3:09 pmOutlaw284 says:
republicanshatefacts
Why don’t you go look at the link that McWars put on there.
Since it was put out July 17 2009.
So i guess you are saying that McWars is wrong to.
Unless any major changes have been made to the bill concerned, it doesn’t matter that the assessment was made July 17. The bill stands and the assessment was made as of that date.
Where do you have a say on health care/insurance anyway? What do right-wingers know about humanity and compassion?
August 16th, 2009 at 3:10 pmOutlaw284 says:
republicanshatefacts
so how is sending 17,000 more troops withdrawing. Talk about lieing.
August 16th, 2009 at 3:09 pm
So which country is he “sending 17,000 more troops,” sport?
August 16th, 2009 at 3:12 pmSince you made this same error earlier and have now repeated it, I will give you a free English lesson.
When you use it as “also” you should use too instead of to.
When you make grade school gramatical errors even after they have been pointed out it makes you look like you can’t learn.
August 16th, 2009 at 3:13 pmRalph,
Outlaw hasn’t figured out that if he posts something and then makes a lying comment about it that it counts as a lie.
As I said, I haven’t encountered this bad a picker and chooser since I was a (little bitty) South Ron Talibaptist.
And the rabid frothing at the mouth bite everything in sight attitude is just getting worse.
August 16th, 2009 at 3:14 pmrepublicanshatefacts
August 16th, 2009 at 3:15 pmI guess you didn’t notice that in that link it said that it would ADD not make it neutral. WOW to funny
Oh really?
Reagan (1981-1989) wasn’t a Republican?
George H. W. Bush (1989-1993) wasn’t a Republican?
George W. Bush (2001-2009) wasn’t a Republican?
There wasn’t a Republican House and Senate from 1995-2007?
I’d better check my facts again; I could have sworn they were and there was.
August 16th, 2009 at 3:15 pmHe’s an illiterate fool who can’t spell or use the English language correctly.
Surely a second grader should know how to spell lying.
August 16th, 2009 at 3:17 pmOutlaw284 says:
republicanshatefacts
I guess you didn’t notice that in that link it said that it would ADD not make it neutral. WOW to funny
Funny, you think the CBO is your best buddy w/o posting any links of your own, and yet you think you’re in a position through your terrible reading comprehension to judge others’ links.
You’re out of your league, sport.
August 16th, 2009 at 3:17 pmI guess this is what passes for “clever” with the Troll Central third team.
Notice the subtle shift in the goal posts:
If you want to talk about Iraq then tell me why is it Obama hasn’t gotten us out of the region
I guess we’re supposed to be as stupid as the troll is and not realize that Iraq and Afghanistan are two totally separate nations and theaters of war.
Kinda like George W. Bush didn’t recognize it.
August 16th, 2009 at 3:18 pm202. Fred sez:…
Hi, Fred, yesterday on a different thread I told the troll that he’d start taking thumps for grammatical error. I don’t know that he’s been back to that thread, and he probably couldn’t have found it if he’d wanted to. He would’ve just barked at it anyway.
August 16th, 2009 at 3:21 pmMcWars
August 16th, 2009 at 3:22 pmWell now isn’t he sending them to Afghanistan and where is Afghanistan from Iraq. And how many troops do have in Iraq right now? Isn’t it around 130,000 yup. I thought Obama was going to get us out of there.
This isn’t their third team, this is all Troll Central has left in reserve. I warned you guys about over hunting the trolls, but nobody listened.
August 16th, 2009 at 3:24 pm/
republicanshatefacts
You haven’t proven I am lieing yet. Other then you saying that I am. Just like everyone else on here isn’t proving what I post as a lie. But keep trying I am waiting.
August 16th, 2009 at 3:28 pmI have taken everything that you have posted including McWars link and proven you wrong. so keep trying. All you can do is call me names and say that i am lieing that really proves your point. Do have facts just call him a lier that will work.
If the Neocons would have had their way, Iran would no longer exist and in theory at least, Iraq would border Afghanistan.
August 16th, 2009 at 3:29 pmVirtual Pebble I decided that the only positive thing that might come from a discussion with outlaw would be a little help with his English. I sure hope he/she is paying attention.
August 16th, 2009 at 3:30 pmrepublicanshatefacts says:
so outlaw if iraq is the same as afghanistan, the mexico is the same as the us and we don’t need borders!
I never said that Iraq was the same as Afghanistan did I. But keep trying
August 16th, 2009 at 3:31 pmOutlaw284 says:
McWars
Well now isn’t he sending them to Afghanistan and where is Afghanistan from Iraq. And how many troops do have in Iraq right now? Isn’t it around 130,000 yup. I thought Obama was going to get us out of there.
There’s no confirmation he’s agreed to send 17,000 more to Afghanistan. Allow me to remind the party “strong on defense” that they ignored a Taliban presence that has now become a headache for our forces throughout the region, but at least they are a clearly definable presence. I’ve stated previously that if we are to pick up where the right-wingers left us high-and-dry, there needs to be a special ops focus, and sure enough, the new commander in Afghanistan is a special ops guy.
As I said before, you got us entrenched in Iraq and an exit plan is being implemented, albeit a deliberate pace. Don’t you find it odd that you’re complaining we’re not cleaning up your mess fast enough, and yet you’d be perfectly fine with leaving everything as is if McCain won? You can’t achieve anything good, so where do you get the idea that you can set benchmarks as to how we achieve our own goals?
August 16th, 2009 at 3:31 pmToo much wrong with the grammer and spelling to even try to help you with.
Try taking a class. I promise it will help.
August 16th, 2009 at 3:32 pmFred
August 16th, 2009 at 3:32 pmYou still haven’t done anything but try and say that way i posted wasn’t what it said and yet they were staright from the article.
Fred
August 16th, 2009 at 3:34 pmThat is your only reply is the grammer. To funny.
Outlaw, mental midgets like you have a place in America, but not running our government – that’s adult business. Please stop forcing your illiteracy and incompetence on others.
August 16th, 2009 at 3:34 pmLet me correct myself – Obama did in fact agree in Feb. to send 17,000 more troops to Afghanistan, but I had in mind any troop requests on top of that, which the president may be reluctant to approve. If he chooses to listen to the commanders and send more, as long as it expedites completion of the mission and our troops can come home sooner with fewer rotations, it may be best to listen to the planners. The troll doesn’t understand the damage he’s done and resurged threat he’s ignore until we had to pick it up.
August 16th, 2009 at 3:39 pmWell, you were proven to be a liar about 4 times in this thread alone. You didn’t seem to be able to learn and so it was just a little experiment. You know the kind of things that intelligent humans do with varmits.
I just wanted to see if you could learn. Your results came back as one with no capacity to learn.
August 16th, 2009 at 3:42 pmErr, correction: The troll doesn’t understand the damage he’s done and the resurged threat he’s ignored until we had to pick it up.
I’m taking a break. Please learn something troll, correct yourself and admit to some wrongdoing.
August 16th, 2009 at 3:42 pmMcWars
August 16th, 2009 at 3:43 pmEven if they haven’t decided on it he said that he would get us out of there. So why is he sending more troops over. How many did he send in feb. How many are over there now?
That was his “promise” he would get us out of there.
Fred
August 16th, 2009 at 3:49 pmReally. McWars puts a post on saying that the CBO says that the health care bill will be a surplus and yet I can the whole paragraph that says it will add to the deficit out of the same bill. Well that wasn’t a lie.
The CBO says that Oabama has quadrupled the deficit and yet no one can show where the CBO or the Treasury is wrong. Everything I posted about the Hospitals in England wasn’t proven wrong. What else fred.
Oh not to mention that non of them were right wing links either. So once again I say prove what I have posted as wrong.
I will wait. No all you liberals can do on here is call me names.
Outlaw, now listen carefully. 2 + 2 = 4
August 16th, 2009 at 3:51 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Outlaw284 says:
The CBO says that Oabama has quadrupled the deficit…
Links, facts, evidence?
August 16th, 2009 at 3:56 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Got me one
hello you racist pos from the other thread where you got your a$$ handed to you.
Come by for some English lessons?
The reason no one here takes you guy seriously is because you are not good people, ie, not the kind of people we want in our society. You are an embarresment to us.
We would help you but you refuse help.
August 16th, 2009 at 3:58 pmGot me one says some stupid crap.
Aww, we are so upset that you are not happy. Get over it.
August 16th, 2009 at 3:59 pmFred
I will make it easy for you to understand when it comes to the deficit.
August 16th, 2009 at 4:00 pmReady. I know you are old but you should have learned this in basic economics.
ready.
The deficit in 2008 was 407 billion. Now bush set the budget for 2009 at 1.2 trillion But Obama came in and add to it to the tune of 1.85 trillion so since Bush is the one that approved the budget and was only around for the first 3 months of it that means that OBAMA is the one that has added the most to it bring it to the 1.85 trillion. That is where everyone is getting the quadrupling the deficit. But I know you libs what to blame bush for it.
Here ends the economics leasson.
Outlaw284
Oh, I get it!!! Clinton did it!!!
August 16th, 2009 at 4:04 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Outlaw: “Fred
That is your only reply is the grammer. To funny.”
Got me one: “or does he not have the balls to do so, of couse he don’t because…”
It is worth pointing out that the only two posters fighting the idea of universal health care can’t string together as much as one sentence without demonstrating that they are illiterate.
August 16th, 2009 at 4:06 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
heh. You’re really impressing me there fella.
August 16th, 2009 at 4:07 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
I am pulling up a chair and am going to watch this disaster unfold in real time.
August 16th, 2009 at 4:11 pmEpic failure and Trajan go hand in hand.
Be sure to clean up the room after you’re done playing with the trolls.
This comment has been voted down. Click to read.
NinerFan
August 16th, 2009 at 4:15 pmThat is all you can come up with is that I can’t “string together as much as one sentence”
Wow that is a good rebuttal to what I said. wow look a sentence. That must really hurt to see that.
Well, you did try to pin shrub’s failure on Obama. You used to use Clinton. Now Obama is your new Clinton.
Funny that you were not able to read that from my post. Everyone eles here understood the implication very clearly.
You always fail and you always blame others for it. Nothing new.
August 16th, 2009 at 4:16 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
This comment has been voted down. Click to read.
ralph, it’s hard to argue with the fact that 95% of the deficits and every recession of the 20th and 21st centuries have been under a republican president. They are toxic for economic matters.
August 16th, 2009 at 4:27 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
This comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Outlaw, hey dumbass, it’s a spambot. It won’t respond.
Is we learning yet?
August 16th, 2009 at 4:36 pmOMG the trolls are talking to a spambot.
I guess they are dumb enough to argue with a fencepost if anyone is.
August 16th, 2009 at 4:38 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
holly one — you know berry
Is he talking about a Yankee Candle scent?
August 16th, 2009 at 4:47 pmGot me one says:
August 16th, 2009 at 4:19 pm
If only you were capable of understanding irony…
August 16th, 2009 at 4:50 pmchuckling, I guess that it would be inconvenient to bring up that most of the deficit spending happened under republican control of….well the house, the senate and the oval office from 2000-2006.
I’m sorry, I just can’t stop laughing…
August 16th, 2009 at 4:50 pmOutlaw284 says: …From 1945 till now. Democrats have controlled the Senate for 46 years. They have controlled the House for 54 years…”
Since apparently you missed it earlier when Ralph refuted this crap, I’ll post it again:
“ralph the wonder llama says:
Outlaw284 says:
ralph the wonder llama
Once again you show that you are an IDIOT. The Republcans haven’t had control for the last 30 years. The mojority of those 30 years have been controled by the DEMOCRATS
Oh really?
Reagan (1981-1989) wasn’t a Republican?
George H. W. Bush (1989-1993) wasn’t a Republican?
George W. Bush (2001-2009) wasn’t a Republican?
There wasn’t a Republican House and Senate from 1995-2007?
I’d better check my facts again; I could have sworn they were and there was.
August 16th, 2009 at 4:52 pmAugust 16th, 2009 at 3:15 pm”
This comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Outlaw, are you really that dumb that you don’t recognize snark? Or misspelling?
August 16th, 2009 at 4:55 pmHe was dumb enough to try to engage a spambot in conversation.
August 16th, 2009 at 5:02 pmyes i am.
August 16th, 2009 at 5:05 pmOutlaw284 says:
McWars
Even if they haven’t decided on it he said that he would get us out of there. So why is he sending more troops over. How many did he send in feb. How many are over there now?
That was his “promise” he would get us out of there.
Advice: Don’t attempt to manage the goals of good people trying to clean up the mess you created.
He said pretty clearly during the campaign that he would transition us out of Iraq and focus on the threat you left behind in Afghanistan. Your little distortion is intended to get us worked up against the president. Nice try, slimeball.
August 16th, 2009 at 5:05 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Outlaw284 says:
Fred
Really. McWars puts a post on saying that the CBO says that the health care bill will be a surplus and yet I can the whole paragraph that says it will add to the deficit out of the same bill. Well that wasn’t a lie.
The CBO says that Oabama has quadrupled the deficit and yet no one can show where the CBO or the Treasury is wrong. Everything I posted about the Hospitals in England wasn’t proven wrong. What else fred.
Oh not to mention that non of them were right wing links either. So once again I say prove what I have posted as wrong.
I will wait. No all you liberals can do on here is call me names.
Your working overtime to prove you’re an illiterate dumbass. Relax, we asked you to clock out hours ago. Your work is done for the day.
August 16th, 2009 at 5:14 pm
McWars
August 16th, 2009 at 5:16 pmDistortion? Try again I am just doing what all you libs like to do. That is what he said and yet say are trying to pass it off now that he is trying. That isn’t what he said he was going to do. In fact I remember all of you crying about you wanted the troops out now and now you are changing your story. Nice try.
Outlaw284 says:
Jane E. Schneider
You really are that dumb. Tell me who is it that writes the budget and decides hohw much goes where. I will give you a clue it isn’t the President it is congress. And the democrats have controlled the house and the senate longer then the republicans.
August 16th, 2009 at 5:13 pm
Republicans were in power 1994-2006. Government grew 35% under the eight years of Bush. Dems were in power only two of those years.
The only case you republicans are making to the people is that you want power for the sake of having power. That’s why Americans have such a low opinion of the GOP. You are a con-artist.
August 16th, 2009 at 5:17 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
McWars
August 16th, 2009 at 5:21 pmYeah and if you had any clue you would also know that they republicans and conservatives voted againest their own people. Well how about that. That would be why the democrats are in now. And what is happening now. The democrats are losing ground faster then the Republicans did. Since their apporval rating is way lower then Bush’s and Obama is heading there to.
McWars
Distortion? Try again I am just doing what all you libs like to do. That is what he said and yet say are trying to pass it off now that he is trying. That isn’t what he said he was going to do. In fact I remember all of you crying about you wanted the troops out now and now you are changing your story. Nice try.
We’re exiting Iraq and focusing on the threat left behind in Afghanistan. Don’t worry about the pace of how quickly we’re cleaning up the mess because, remember, you caused the problem. I told you earlier that leaving Iraq cannot be a yank-out scenario, as much as we’d like it to be. There is a timetable to work out the logistical entanglements, including turning over provinces.
We didn’t want to be in Iraq in the first place; the fight was in Afghanistan. But as you don’t know, cleaning up the problem is always light-years tougher than causing it, as you’ve done so diligently.
August 16th, 2009 at 5:23 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
It seems Outlaw is chasing his own tail and finding it.
August 16th, 2009 at 5:24 pmOutlaw284 says
Why don’t you go back to Troll Central and please ask them to only send trolls with an IQ in excess of 75.
August 16th, 2009 at 5:25 pmOutlaw284 says:
McWars
So is that from the same link you posted earlier which had in it that it would add to the deficit.
Or did you finally find one that is different.
Oh wait that isn’t from the CBO is it that is a news article. Keep trying
You yanked out one sentence in your quest to force your all-or-nothing mentality on the rest of us. The CBO would disagree with the summary of your assertion. You didn’t mention the savings, the offsets, and the pay-as-you-go legislation pending in the WH.
It was not only a nice try, it was right on the money. Thanks for the compliment anyway.
August 16th, 2009 at 5:26 pmNext week this troll may be starting high school.
August 16th, 2009 at 5:30 pmLast time I checked, they were voted out of office by Independents and Democrats. You idiots voted for four more years of ERIC FAILURE and thankfully, you lost.
Now get over it.
August 16th, 2009 at 5:30 pmOutlaw284 says:
McWars
Yeah and if you had any clue you would also know that they republicans and conservatives voted againest their own people. Well how about that. That would be why the democrats are in now. And what is happening now. The democrats are losing ground faster then the Republicans did. Since their apporval rating is way lower then Bush’s and Obama is heading there to.
Link, Link, LINK. For once, son. Put up!
I don’t give a damn what the roaches do to each other. The democrats have twice the approval of republicans, the people depend on democrats to clean up the mess of your disastrous reign, despite the ridiculous zoomed-in “concerns” of a few tea party rednecks. Your party has no logic, no sanity, no track record of working for everyday Americans and is going the way of the whigs. Go to hell for what you’ve done to my country. Your shtick is defending a horrific legacy and you’re a crappy American for it.
August 16th, 2009 at 5:31 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
I must also mention that republicans are now 21% of the voting bloc. They hardly have any power to vote each other out let alone hold a shot to retake the majority. The voting bloc simply no longer exists — a slew of independents, as Reggie mentioned, and democrats were the ones who actually cleaned up the mess. It’s a mathematical fact. Is your contention that republicans are capable of self-cleansing? HA!
August 16th, 2009 at 5:37 pm221. Fred sez:…
Fred,
I thought that a little remedial basic grammar, etc, would help outlaw too. Not sure he got beyond primary or middle school in the functional sense. He/she/it and got-me-one may be just be a couple of smartarse dyslexics, out for a few weeks of trolling.
I should clarify what outlaw’s trick is. He does a cut and paste of something; for instance, he’s done several cut’n'paste entries from HR3200. So that’s factual enough. Then he states his opinion or interpretation of the cut’n'paste. Now that may, or may not, be his actual opinion or interpretation, but no matter; what it does is completely misrepresent the integral whole of whatever the cut’n'paste came from.
Whether he is deliberately misunderstanding what he cut’n'pastes or is just daft I’ll leave to the poor bastards that have to deal with him on the street or at home.
Anyway, he definitely refuses to see that his misrepresentation constitutes a type of falsehood. He either cannot make the the connection between seeing something and calling it as it is, or he cannot admit to the error in his assessment of what he has seen on the page.
Either way, we get the raving side effect – TexisChainSaw Massacree Troll – it just keeps on truckin’, like that damned pink bunny. But it starts kind of like a cut’n'paste troll.
August 16th, 2009 at 5:43 pmMcWars
August 16th, 2009 at 5:46 pmReally were is your link to show that.
Here is one that shows that you are wrong.
http://www.ask.com/bar?q=what+percentage+of+americans+are+republicans&page=1&qsrc=2417&ab=0&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rasmussenreports.com%2Fpublic_content%2Fpolitics%2Fmood_of_america%2Fpartisan_trends
What does that say 36.8% are Dems and 33.3% are Repubs. Yeah that is something to worry about.
All they’ve really got going for them is deception.
Oh, yeah and billions of dollars of our insurance premiums going to pay for ads to screw us.
August 16th, 2009 at 5:49 pmThat is, from comment 283, outlaw284 is a one trick pony rabid troll.
Take a flying frack at a rolling donut, outlaw.
August 16th, 2009 at 5:51 pmVirtual Pebble
August 16th, 2009 at 5:54 pmSo tell me. Have you even bothered to read what the House wants to pass or are you just going along with what your liberal talking heads tells you is true.
Because from what I have seen of your comments you have no clue as to what the bill says or anything else. All I hear from you and a lot of you libs is name calling and talking points from your liberal leaders.
Don’t get the dim witted troll too wound up because that may cause his programming to shift into Liberals are fascist mode.
August 16th, 2009 at 5:55 pmOutlaw, it’s time to check out reality, a natural born African American Citizen was elected President by significant majority of the voting public.
Your $239 billion deficit claim is preceded by this:
August 16th, 2009 at 5:56 pm
There is only one person on here that has put a link up and I went to it and when I point out that it says the opposite of what he is saying then everyone calls me a lier and a troll and strawman and all kinds of things but not a one of you has come up with any links to prove me wrong. You can say I am lieing all you want but until you prove it you are all in denial of the facts.
August 16th, 2009 at 5:58 pmOh and Pebble it isn’t my fault you can’t make HR 3200 say what you want. You still haven’t proven that what I say about it is a lie.
“The only case you republicans are making to the people is that you want power for the sake of having power.”
McWars, exactly right. They don’t want to govern, they just want the power.
August 16th, 2009 at 6:00 pmOutlaw284 says:
Virtual Pebble
So tell me. Have you even bothered to read what the House wants to pass or are you just going along with what your liberal talking heads tells you is true.
Because from what I have seen of your comments you have no clue as to what the bill says or anything else. All I hear from you and a lot of you libs is name calling and talking points from your liberal leaders.
Don’t worry about health care. Start paying down the not-so-healthy $3 trillion Iraquagmire price tag. You still haven’t sent your check.
August 16th, 2009 at 6:01 pmThere is only one person on here that has put a link up and I went to it and when I point out that it says the opposite of what he is saying then everyone calls me a lier and a troll and strawman and all kinds of things but not a one of you has come up with any links to prove me wrong.
I posted two links and you still can’t synthesize information properly. Each of the articles go hand in hand, a follow up, and your method is comparing the two cancelling one out. Sorry, it doesn’t work that way.
However, I see you’ve reached the next step of trolldom: the coveted “Victim, Me” mode.
August 16th, 2009 at 6:05 pmPoll: Democrats lose support, but GOP sees no benefit
Story Highlights:
CNN/Opinion Research Corp. poll finds 52 percent have favorable view of Democrats
Survey says 41 percent have positive view of Republicans
CNN polling chief: Americans prefer Democrats in charge of Congress by 10 points
What happens in health care debate likely to affect outcome of 2010 midterm races
August 16th, 2009 at 6:07 pmMcWars
where is the link that shows what you are saying. That is the problem. There isn’t one. Here let me help you out there this is your own link and it says that HR 3200 will add to the deficit. Wow this is to funny.
http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/104xx/doc10464/hr3200.pdf
Try reading page 2. Remember this is the link YOU posted.
August 16th, 2009 at 6:08 pmAmericans will blame the GOP and their industry-backed excesses if reform fails.
… voters would assign blame 30 percent to the health industry, 22 to Republicans, 11 percent to Democrats and only 4 percent to Obama.
August 16th, 2009 at 6:15 pmhttp://www.ourfuture.org/blog-entry/2009073020/house-health-reform-bill-produces-6-billion-surplus
This link is all-in-one, including reference to the first CBO link I posted.
Contents of this link
I. CBO: Health Bill Would Hike Deficit by $239 Billion
II. A Wall-Street Journal article putting that claim in perspective.
III. “CBO Scores Confirms Deficit Neutrality of Health Reform Bill”
The author was right on the money in the last sentence:
“We should be applauding the House for tackling this long-term problem, not punishing it by falsely claiming its health care reform initiatives will lead to a higher federal deficit.”
August 16th, 2009 at 6:23 pmrepublicanshatefacts
And what part of 37 million not being insured with this bill did you miss. WOW didn’t see that one coming did you. Guess you didn’t read the link totally did you.
August 16th, 2009 at 6:24 pmOutlaw284 the rabid one trick troll.
I called you on an item you posted from HR3200 S.1233 and you didn’t even recognize that you were quoting the quality assurance paragraphs of the Section, and drawing an entirely incorrect inference.
I called you on an item you posted from HR3200 which “grandfathers” existing health plans and defines under which circumstances those plans may or may not enroll new members, and you completely misinterpreted that section as well.
I will not respond to further comments from you, outlaw. If I see anything with your username on it, I’ll vote it down or report it as abusive. Abuse seems to be all that you’re capable of, outlaw; several people on this thread have called you out of bounds for excellent reasons and all you do is keep making the same stupid mistakes and barking the same stupid abusive insults.
Don’t go away mad, outlaw, just go the frack away, unless you enjoy being the troll in Whack-a-Troll. We can handle that.
August 16th, 2009 at 6:26 pmMcWars
August 16th, 2009 at 6:30 pmReally then why is it that people right now are saying they trust the Republicans when it comes to health care not the Democrats.
http://www.ask.com/bar?q=americans+trust+republicans+over+democrats+on+health+care&page=1&qsrc=2417&ab=4&u=http%3A%2F%2F209.157.64.200%2Ffocus%2Ff-news%2F2315870%2Fposts
And what else do they trust them on over the democrats?
Voters now trust the GOP more than Democrats on the issue of education, 41% to 38%.
Social Security for the second straight month, this time by a 43% to 39% margin
The GOP maintains a strong 51% to 35% lead on taxes
Sounds like the Republicans are really losing
295. republicanshatefacts sez:…
Hey, RHF, I just accidently voted a down on 295. I saw out-troll at the text top and clicked before reading the commenter line. I’ll make it up to you, honest. I’ll either vote up something of yours I disagree with, if I can find such a thing, or I’ll pour some more whoopass on out-troll; I think he’s left a whole case of it open around here somewhere.
:)
August 16th, 2009 at 6:33 pmVirtual Pebble
August 16th, 2009 at 6:34 pmThere is a grandfather clause. But it also says that Insurance companies are not allowed to write new plans. Now you tell me does your health insurance plan stay the same every year or does it change. I bet it changes which means that after it comes up for renewal and they change one thing in it they are not allowed to write a new one. So much for the grandfather clause.
Want to try again.
People trust the republicans? Just what have republicans proposed on health reform. They’re at lunch with lobbyists, not fighting in the trenches on education, health care. Obama CUT taxes for the middle class and you think the GOP earns a favorable opinion on taxes? HA!
August 16th, 2009 at 6:36 pmI’d ignore any poll showcased by Freep republic. A lot of potential serial killers lurk on that site.
August 16th, 2009 at 6:38 pmtlaw284 says:
There is a grandfather clause. But it also says that Insurance companies are not allowed to write new plans. Now you tell me does your health insurance plan stay the same every year or does it change. I bet it changes which means that after it comes up for renewal and they change one thing in it they are not allowed to write a new one. So much for the grandfather clause.
Mine hasn’t changed in more than a decade, so you bet wrong.
August 16th, 2009 at 6:40 pmMcWars
August 16th, 2009 at 6:41 pmThat is the problem that you seem to not get. The majority of the people in this country do not want this bill they like the health care system the way it is. They are not happy about the cost and want something done about that.
Republicans have tried to bring up tort reform and the democrats don’t even want to talk about it. Texas has done it and they have more doctors going to that state. Insurance companies have dropped their rates medical costs have dropped as well as docotors insurance costs.
But some people want to say Texas has the largest number of people without insurance and yet can’t show how many of them chose not to have it, how many are illegal, and how many just can’t afford it.
You want solutions to the problem then what is wrong with that other then people don’t want to have to take the responsibility for themselves. They want the government to do it for them.
gummble-bee-itch
August 16th, 2009 at 6:44 pmnothing in your plan has changed. what they will cover what you pay nothing.
I find that hard to believe.
If that is true then good for you. But I bet you will find that some of the things that you used to have covered aren’t anymore.
320. Voted you down, Outlaw.
That section of the legislation does NOT say that health insurance companies cannot create new plans. It prevents companies from enrolling new customers in plans which are not qualified at the time the legislation goes into effect. The exception to putting new enrollees in such a plan is when someone who is already enrolled wants to enroll a dependent.
August 16th, 2009 at 6:46 pmVirtual Pebble
(1) LIMITATION ON NEW ENROLLMENT.—
11 (A) IN GENERAL.—Except as provided in
12 this paragraph, the individual health insurance
13 issuer offering such coverage does not enroll
14 any individual in such coverage if the first ef- 15 fective date of coverage is on or after the first
16 day of Y1.
So you are telling me that this paragraph isn’t saying that insurance companies can’t start new plans. And here I thought that is what it said. WOW I sure thought that DOES NOT means no. Well thanks for clearing that up.
August 16th, 2009 at 6:53 pmAnd you say that I am the one that can’t read. WOW
Virtual Pebble
August 16th, 2009 at 6:54 pmOh and just for your information that is the whole paragraph. So I guess there isn’t any confussion about that. And it isn’t taken out of context. That is what they wrote about NEW ENROLLMENT
republicanshatefacts
August 16th, 2009 at 6:56 pmTHe problem with you is you can’t post a resent poll. This one is from over a month ago. But thanks for the laugh.
republicanshatefacts
August 16th, 2009 at 7:02 pmIf you are talking about the link that I put up on the CBO I am not the one that posted it. I copied it from one of your Liberal friends on here. So I guess that makes you the A** once again. Are you done making a fool out of yourself yet or are you ready to actaully ready to debate facts for real. Sonce nothing that I have seen come out of your posts have any fact to it and is outdated to boot but I wouldn’t expect any different form you.
Oh and your assumptions just make you look that much more like an A** so by all means keep it up.
republicanshatefacts
All I have heard from you is the same liberal democrat talking points that i hear on every single liberal talk show and it makes me laugh to no end. But keep being a good little boy and drink your kool-aide every morning
August 16th, 2009 at 7:05 pmOutlaw:
This is a pathetic trolling performance, even by your standards.
You have been spending way too much time participating in the circle jerks at your hate/stalker blog and it definitely hasn’t enhanced your already questionable trolling ability.
August 16th, 2009 at 7:08 pmrepublicanshatefacts
August 16th, 2009 at 7:12 pmYou forgot to put one part in there.
Would you advise your member of Congress to vote for or against a health care reform bill when they return to Washington in September, or do you not have an opinion?”
8/6-9/09 For Against Unsure
35% 36% 29%
Your own poll shows that it isn’t 100% wow and that was off your link.
And yet again you bring a poll that is how old.
Reggie
August 16th, 2009 at 7:16 pmAnd just what have you proven so far? Have you proven anything I have said to be wrong?
Has anyone. The problem is that the ones that seem to think that they have haven’t show anything but out of date polls and calling names.
So by all means show me where it is that what I have posted is wrong.
republicanshatefacts has been trying but he has done more name calling then proving anything. All the others that have come on here have tried and couldn’t prove what I posted was wrong. So by all means show me where it is that I am wrong. I am open minded enough to see it but I haven’t seen anyone prove what I have linked to or what I have said to be wrong.
Does that question include sock-puppets you’ve worn here on previous threads?
August 16th, 2009 at 7:21 pmReggie
August 16th, 2009 at 7:23 pmThat is all you can come up with?
And you expect people to see your side of anything with comments like that. No wonder more people are moving towards the Republicans for Health Care and S.S. and Education. WOW
Outlaw:
August 16th, 2009 at 7:31 pmWhat did you expect, you are nothing more than an inept troll and once again are way off topic on this thread.
Let’s get back to the subject of the thread, the lies of the right’s spin machine.
Um, Stephen Hawking IS British. Who exactly is responsible for fact checking before they do things like this and convey this sort of information? Oh, that’s right… right wingers don’t fact check, because they don’t even bother with facts. They say things, shout them as loud as they possibly can, and then hope that other people agree with them. Sad part is, usually, it works.
August 16th, 2009 at 7:59 pmOutlaw284 says:
Reggie
That is all you can come up with?
And you expect people to see your side of anything with comments like that. No wonder more people are moving towards the Republicans for Health Care and S.S. and Education. WOW
“More people”?
You were hounded out of office seven months ago. Who are you to presume you can get off that easy? The right-wing nuts have said NO to everything w/o coming out with anything of their own, and when they have something you can hear the sighs in unison because it reminds people why they voted out them out. Are you saying people are already looking forward to what’s predictable — the answer NO?
Where are you progressive on the issues?
Health care — status quo
Education — explain. Have you supported an increase in Pell Grants, for example?
S.S. — they never wanted that program in the first place. It’s socialism. It’s pure projection when they say we want to cut benefits — they had that in mind when they were in power!
August 16th, 2009 at 8:00 pmOutofYourNeoConMindLaw:
See you after the Nov 2010 elections.
If your ‘polls’ are correct, the Republicans should be sweeping back into the majority in both houses of congress.
And at least seven varieties of pigs will have evolved into winged creatures.
August 16th, 2009 at 8:35 pmAgainst my better judgment and in contravention to previous assertions, here goes;
318. Outlaw284 says:
Virtual Pebble
(1) LIMITATION ON NEW ENROLLMENT.—
11 (A) IN GENERAL.—Except as provided in
12 this paragraph, the individual health insurance
13 issuer offering such coverage does not enroll
14 any individual in such coverage if the first ef-
15 fective date of coverage is on or after the first
16 day of Y1.
So you are telling me that this paragraph isn’t saying that insurance companies can’t start new plans.
Yep. I’m telling you that what you have just quoted (above) from HR3200 does NOT prohibit insurance companies from creating new plans.
It prohibits insurance companies from enrolling new members in existing plans, and when read in conjunction with other language adjacent to what you have quoted, it is understood that the existing plans being referred to are existing unqualified plans.
There is other language which prohibits the creation of new unqualified plans.
There is no language in the legislation which prohibits the creation of new qualified plans.
Unqualified plans are substandard plans. Those are plans which are deficient in coverage for various health issues; plans which permit the insuror to arbitrarily dump the insured member without paying claims; plans which permit the arbitrary dumping of the insured if a preexisting condition is revealed after enrollment; and so forth.
Prohibitions on unqualified plans are part of the consumer protection portion of the legislation. They permit an insured member or other party with a greivance or the government to seek civil and/or criminal penalties against the policy issuer.
August 17th, 2009 at 1:26 am340. Virtual Pebble sez:…
Geez that’s a lot of OT stuff.
I bet Richard Scott would be happy to sell outlaw a policy or three from an unqualified plan.
August 17th, 2009 at 1:29 amThey will stop at nothing. They have trillions to lose.
August 17th, 2009 at 1:43 amI believe the president overall is to blame:
http://americaspeaksink.com/2009/08/obamacare-the-worst-sales-pitch-ever/
August 17th, 2009 at 9:47 am343. joedee1969 sez:…
That’s kind of off topic (OT) for this thread, joedee. I don’t think the President is to blame for much of anything, aside from offending the rePublicrites, the racists and the bigots by having won. And worse than that, won really big. That seems to have tied a lot of idiot’s panties in a really big, but mighty tight knot.
I should probably say yet, because those of us who are not newbies on the planet know that the President is 1) human and 2) a politican, and neither species is error free. He’s done well so far though, better than at least one very recent occupant of the office.
He certainly doesn’t have anything to do with Rick Scott, Health Care Insurance Fraud Felon and Political Dirty Trickster, snookering those two women, and anyone else he can find, into bad-mouthing the NHS (or other plans not in front of Congress) to support his side in our fracas over health care insurance reform. Why the right is so stupid as to think that anyone would repeat anyone elses’s mistakes over and over again is beyond me, but then again, the previous occupant of the President’s office kept doing the same stupid things over and over again, so the right certainly has a point with respect to how their main party behaves.
August 17th, 2009 at 10:26 am