Fox, CNN Falsely Label Budget Reconciliation Process As The ‘Nuclear Option’
Fox, CNN Falsely Label Budget Reconciliation Process As The ‘Nuclear Option’
As it becomes increasingly clear that Senate Republicans are more interested in scuttling President Obama’s agenda for political gain than they are in actually negotiating on health care, the White House and Senate leadership are looking at a process known as “reconciliation,” which would allow some health care reforms to pass the Senate by a simple majority vote. Cable news, however, has raced to draw a false comparison between this well-established reconciliation process and a strongarm tactic known as “nuclear option” which progressives opposed in 2005.
As Media Matters reports, two CNN anchors described reconciliation as a “nuclear option” being invoked by Democrats. Fox News’ Bill Sammon claimed that “Democrats are headed for, not the public option but the nuclear option.” Sean Hannity claimed that Senate Democrats are “talking about a nuclear option if they can’t get their 60-vote filibuster number in the Senate,” and Fox commentator Dick Morris labeled reconciliation “the so-called nuclear option.” Watch this video compilation:
This comparison, however, merely proves that CNN and Fox do not understand how the Senate works.
The most important difference between budget reconciliation and the so-called nuclear option is that the reconciliation process was created by federal law, while the “nuclear option” was dreamed up by an article published in the right-wing Federalist Society’s official journal. Under the Congressional Budget Act of 1974, the Senate may pass a law bringing federal tax and spending levels in line with a previously enacted budget resolution by a simple majority vote. This process allows senators to bypass the filibuster when enacting health reform provisions that impact the federal budget. President Clinton used it to enact his budget in 1993, and President Bush used it to enact trillions of dollars of tax cuts for the rich in 2001 and 2003.
Conversely, the nuclear option was an unprecedented proposal to simply eliminate the filibuster altogether if 50 Senators agreed. Although there is a very strong constitutional argument that a bare majority of the Senate can eliminate the filibuster immediately after a new Senate is seated, nothing in federal law provides for the nuclear option.
The distinction here is very clear. Reconciliation is authorized by an Act of Congress; the nuclear option is a power play dreamed up by a right-wing policy shop. As former Senate Republican Leader Bill Frist said of reconciliation, “It’s legal, it’s ethical, you can do it.” Simply put, there’s nothing “nuclear” about progressives believing that they can pass health reform by a majority vote; that’s simply known as “democracy.”
Topic Cloud
ArchivesBlog Roll
Ignorant is as ignorant reports…
August 20th, 2009 at 3:58 pmGreat. Just what we need…Fox invoking “nuclear”. I can imagine Beck showing footage of an atomb bomb exploding over and over again while talking about healthcare reform…then explain how Pres Obama secretly wants to launch a hydrogen bomb against the South.
…or something like that.
August 20th, 2009 at 3:59 pmI no longer recognize the Republicans as a legitimate political party.
August 20th, 2009 at 4:00 pmOh. My. God.
Now they’re going to spread that term around to apply to anything R’s don’t like?
Can’t wait for the trolls to come in here and whine about how D’s get to use the “nuclear option” when we were against the R’s even threatening it. And they will.
August 20th, 2009 at 4:00 pmNuclear Option
August 20th, 2009 at 4:02 pmOn The Table
Overused Meaningless
I don’t have a problem with “nuking” republican obstruction.
August 20th, 2009 at 4:03 pmFox, CNN Falsely Label Budget Reconciliation Process As The ‘Nuclear Option’
– - Wingnuts love to invoke nukes and Nazis: “we can’t wait for the final proof, the smoking gun, which could come in the form of a mushroom cloud”
August 20th, 2009 at 4:04 pmDick Toe Morris?
Hes about as credible as Tom Hummer Delay or David Diaper Vitter
August 20th, 2009 at 4:06 pmAbove the Clouds says:
So . . . the Republicans are on the side of ever-increasing health insurance premiums?
Yes. Yes, they are.
August 20th, 2009 at 4:07 pmSo . . . the Republicans are on the side of ever-increasing health insurance premiums?
August 20th, 2009 at 4:07 pmWhat other roundly wrong sparkle box sychophant will spout nuclear ash heliumized histronics?
August 20th, 2009 at 4:07 pmWhat ever happened to simply majority rules Democracy in the U.S. Congress as laid out in the U.S. Constitution??????
Now that the GOP blatantly filibusters EVERYTHING, asking for simply majority rule is “the NUCLEAR OPTION”???
HUH???
August 20th, 2009 at 4:08 pmSo, will CNN broadcast a correction? (A correction from FOX would use the entirety of their air time for a minumum of seven years.)
August 20th, 2009 at 4:08 pmFox = shear ignorance, propaganda and stupidity & in the can for Corporations.
CNN = In the can for Corporations.
Mmmm, they seem very close with their agendas…
…Fox is catering to the very lowest educated in the country…
…CNN is just pushing Corporate America’s agenda to keep their advertising.
August 20th, 2009 at 4:09 pmi dunno, ian… but that picture seems as much an exaggeration
as the networks’ labels…
first reaction…
August 20th, 2009 at 4:10 pmI swear, this feels like “The Night of the Living Dead”…!
They’re everywhere… and they aren’t human. Jeebus, has some wingnut somewhere invented no-fail zombie dust??
August 20th, 2009 at 4:10 pmBoth Fox and CNN stuffed this up ?
WTF Don’t they have one congressional fact
August 20th, 2009 at 4:10 pmchecker between them ? I mean DUH, even I knew what it meant.
Desperation smells funny.
August 20th, 2009 at 4:13 pm…there’s nothing “nuclear” about progressives believing that they can pass health reform by a majority vote; that’s simply known as “democracy.”
Democracy?
Well, duh, nowonder the Republicans hate it.
August 20th, 2009 at 4:13 pmTrust Faux Noise (Fox “News”) and Corporate Noisome Noise (CNN), the second-most mistrusted cable news network, to lie and distort in favor of corporate greed. They’ll do it every time…
August 20th, 2009 at 4:14 pm…nowonder…
Should be:
..no wonder the Republicans hate it.
Don’t want the willfully ignorant of the right thinking “nowonder” is a new word.
Probably hear it being used on FOX tonight.
August 20th, 2009 at 4:16 pmWanna know why Obama is so calm and the right is twitching?
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2009/03/05/poll-do-americans-want-government-health-care-reform/
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/Healthday/story?id=5535866&page=1
There’s plenty more but the handwriting is on the wall.
August 20th, 2009 at 4:18 pmMaybe CNN will explain that it isn’t a nuclear option at all -in about two months from now – when they catch up to the rest of us.
What good is CNN and their hate radio pundits if we all know more and sooner than CNN!?!?!?!!?!?
August 20th, 2009 at 4:19 pmDemocrats prepare to push health care without GOP
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090820/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_obama_health_care
Some Democrats said Democratic researchers have concluded lately that a strong-arm tactic on Senate health care legislation that would negate the need for any GOP votes might be more effective than previously thought.
The strategy, called “reconciliation,” allows senators to get around a bill-killing filibuster without mustering the 60 votes usually needed. Democrats control 60 of the Senate’s 100 seats,
On Wednesday, Jim Manley, spokesman for Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., warned Republicans that reconciliation is a real option
August 20th, 2009 at 4:21 pmApe-Man says:
What good is CNN and their hate radio pundits if we all know more and sooner than CNN!?!?!?!!?!?
I like the parts where they literally just read the Interwebs out loud to their viewers. That’s kind of them in a nutshell, right there.
August 20th, 2009 at 4:21 pm… otherwise, great article… informative and easily understood…
August 20th, 2009 at 4:21 pmNukes. Nuts, Nazis>> the closet gay who seems to have a butt fetish
smiles>>> i am just sayin….
August 20th, 2009 at 4:23 pmOrganic carbon batteries
August 20th, 2009 at 4:25 pmFreely marketed serfs
Used drained discarded
Ahh, I see.
Another example of the “librul media” at work.
August 20th, 2009 at 4:25 pmIf you think that’s bad, just wait for Sarah to start Tweeting that Obama literally plans to detonate nuclear weapons in red states.
August 20th, 2009 at 4:27 pmThe right has made the political stakes very high on the health care debate. Who are you betting on?
Obama guarantees health care overhaul will pass
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090820/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_obama_health_care
August 20th, 2009 at 4:28 pmOne hopes that CNN may decide “accuracy, accuracy, accuracy” is more important than ratings.
At Fox it’s “premise, premise, premise”: Democrats are wrong. Republicans are right.
August 20th, 2009 at 4:31 pmFred says:
Obama guarantees health care overhaul will pass
It ain’t health care overhaul/reform unless it includes at least a public option. Without that, it might as well be some kind of “non-binding resolution” or something.
August 20th, 2009 at 4:33 pm“…while the “nuclear opinion” was dreamed up by an article published in the right-wing Federalist Society’s official journal.”
[...]
“Conversely, the nuclear opinion was an unprecedented proposal to simply eliminate the filibuster altogether if 50 Senators agreed.”
__________________________________________________________
OK, Ian — I give. What in the world is a “nuclear opinion”?
August 20th, 2009 at 4:35 pmThe biggest mistake the Democrats have ever made was in not forcing the Republics into invoking the “nuclear option”. Imagine how much better off we would be today if they had not been able to use the threat of a veto the last two years of the Bush administration or to use the threat now.
August 20th, 2009 at 4:36 pmFred says:
On Wednesday, Jim Manley, spokesman for Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., warned Republicans that reconciliation is a real option
I heard Howard Fineman, on Countdown last night, say that they can’t use reconciliation for a public option. He said that some arcane senate rule would preclude this happening. Does anyone know about that?
August 20th, 2009 at 4:40 pmJust more proof the cable bobbleheads dont know their ass from a hole in the ground.
The tide is turning against them and their corpoRAT masters. All of their spin, lies, and smears are increasingly ineffective as people are beginning to see them for what they are. The best part of it is that they have brought it on themselves with the frantic, whacked out, over the top rhetoric in play since Obamas election.
I’ve never been one to revel in the misfortune of others, no matter how deserving, BUT, these guys make it easy!
Whatever they want to call it, just DO IT and listen to them squeal!
Peace :)
August 20th, 2009 at 4:41 pmHe said in his town hall meeting that it was an intregal part of it:
http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2009/08/20/2041815.aspx
August 20th, 2009 at 4:44 pm
Bilbo Hussein Baggins
You can only use reconciliation to change the budget. According to “The Byrd Rule” (assuming that was named for Senator Byrd), if the legislation violates any of these provisions:
(1) if it does not produce a change in outlays or revenues;
(2) if it produces an outlay increase or revenue decrease when the instructed committee is not in compliance with its instructions;
(3) if it is outside the jurisdiction of the committee that submitted the title or provision for inclusion in the reconciliation measure;
(4) if it produces a change in outlays or revenues which is merely incidental to the non-budgetary components of the provision;
(5) if it would increase the deficit for a fiscal year beyond those covered by the reconciliation measure, though the provisions in question may receive an exception if they in total in a Title of the measure net to a reduction in the deficit; and
(6) if it recommends changes in Social Security.
then a Senator can object and the 60-vote rule goes back into effect.
I would think that Fineman was insinuating that the healthcare reform bill is going to be obejctionable on the basis of one of these provisions, thus making it inappropriate for reconciliation.
But I could be completely wrong. I looked into reconciliation, but didn’t get any farther than wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reconciliation_(U.S._Congress)). If someone else knows more about it, by all means, tell us. These Senate procedural rules are complicated. It’s no wonder they can’t seem to get anything done.
August 20th, 2009 at 4:49 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
by the way, why are you all so angry:) YOU WON THE ELECTION!
August 20th, 2009 at 4:50 pmmsims2 says:
Sorry Republizan – Clint Eastwood is firmly on our side!
August 20th, 2009 at 4:52 pmBilbo Hussein Baggins says:
I heard Howard Fineman, on Countdown last night, say that they can’t use reconciliation for a public option. He said that some arcane senate rule would preclude this happening. Does anyone know about that?
There’s nothing to stop them from doing it except for Republicans talking them out of doing it. A lot of D’s seem to have a problem distinguishing “can do” from “will do.” They seem to be really afraid of being labeled non-bi-partisan or something. In other words, they’re completely clueless about what America wants from them.
But here’s an article on what he was talking about. Basically, there’s something called “the Byrd rule” that says reconciliation can’t be used for something that doesn’t primarily affect the budget. However, there’s no established method for how to determine what counts as “primarily affecting the budget” and what doesn’t, or where to draw the line between them. So that’s pretty much up to the majority anyways.
August 20th, 2009 at 4:54 pmYes I do. By the way reconciliation is a legal mechanism. Sad that you are so ignorant.
August 20th, 2009 at 4:54 pmYour insurance should not be at the mercy of a greedy private corporation. That’s something everyone can get behind! Even libitarians. Oh, but not Republizan – this is their “Waterloo”. Well republizan – you called it, not us!
August 20th, 2009 at 4:55 pmwho would expect anything less from Hollywood. Bet Dirty Harry aint though…you guys dont like guns
August 20th, 2009 at 4:55 pmhavin a bad day Fred?
August 20th, 2009 at 4:56 pmNo, you probably aren’t too happy these days though.
August 20th, 2009 at 4:58 pmmsims2, you don’t have to do this. you don’t have to defend a criminal organization eating America from the inside. Remember that the constitution gives you the right to do so , but you need not do it. You will be fine. gwet over it, and get over the republican party.
August 20th, 2009 at 4:59 pmAre you capable of reading, msims2?
Not only is reconciliation a legal process, the Republicans have used it as well. If you want to claim that it’s against checks and balances, that’s your opinion and we probably can’t change it, but it was a process that was enacted by Congress (Congressional Budget Act of 1974), and has been used many times. How many you say?
Well.
Once under Carter.
Eight times under Reagan.
Twice under GHW Bush.
Seven times under Clinton.
Five times under GW Bush.
Looks like the reality of the situation is that you just simply don’t know what the hell you’re talking about.
August 20th, 2009 at 5:00 pmmsims2 says:
This is going to spark a 2nd ammendment exercise that you will regret
Fixed your typo.
P.S. In the words of your Messiah, “bring it on”.
August 20th, 2009 at 5:00 pmWho will represent your side? Gonzo? Rummy? I can’t stop laughing.
August 20th, 2009 at 5:01 pmThe rethugs operate on a dishonest, false premise. They have had the alternate reality network long enough to not be able to recognize the truth when they see it. What a bunch of pathetic pretenders.
August 20th, 2009 at 5:01 pmI’m cool. I only get regulated doses of you lefties through this site, and a little Olberman now and then. Now, if I lived on the East coast..sheesh. Thank God for Texas. If you guys run the Country down the toilet as you plan, we’ll find a way out.
August 20th, 2009 at 5:01 pmIs Chyron HR one of those cow pokes that pose with guns?
August 20th, 2009 at 5:02 pmmsims2 says:
go ahead, make my day.
You libs wanna circumvent the checks and balances that a 60 vote majority entails…great.
I don’t think you know what the words you’re using actually mean, do you? 51 votes is a majority. Checks and balances refers to division of powers between the three branches of government.
.
msims2 says:
You may think conservatives are a bunch of back water hillbillies that add nothing to the national debate, and thats ok. You have misjudged us.
You have yet to prove our perception of you wrong in any way. We however continue to patiently wait.
.
msims2 says:
This is going to spark a 10th ammendment debate that you will regret
You were just doing so well, talking about how smart you are, and then pull out a completely irrelevant legal complaint. The 10th Amendment has nothing whatsoever to do with internal Congressional procedures. Nothing. Zip. Nil. You might as well have complained this was going to spark a vast gun rights revolution, ya backwater hillbilly.
.
msims2 says:
by the way, why are you all so angry:) YOU WON THE ELECTION!
Stop trying to destroy my country, traitor.
August 20th, 2009 at 5:02 pmmsims2 says:
by the way, why are you all so angry:) YOU WON THE ELECTION!
And that’s why we get to pass the legislation… that’s how it works.
Nothing nuclear about it, get it?
August 20th, 2009 at 5:04 pmmsims2
Texas is turning blue. Boy, you are having a bad day!!
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20080721/moser
google it, there are hundreds of credible references to back it up.
August 20th, 2009 at 5:05 pmElbruce,
You are so caught up in your euphoria that you fail to realize what is going on around you at the state level. Arizona has already begun legislation in the house that will flatly reject obamacare for the citizens of that great state. Texas is getting there.
Anyway, glad I got you hot and bothered.
August 20th, 2009 at 5:06 pmmsims2 says:
Bet Dirty Harry aint though…
You need a subject, a verb, and an object. If you guys really think English should be the national language, you might want to learn to speak it first.
August 20th, 2009 at 5:06 pmWhy does msims2 still wade in republican shit?
August 20th, 2009 at 5:07 pmtexas is turning blue… dont hold your breath or you might too.
Thanks for the grammar lesson Chyron HR.
August 20th, 2009 at 5:09 pmOop! Sorry Chyron HR, i am wondering if msims2 is into guns & posers, not you!
August 20th, 2009 at 5:09 pmmsims2 says:
This is going to spark a 10th ammendment debate that you will regret
And by debate you mean howl like screeching monkeys, like the protesters have been doing all over the USA in town halls? That’s your kind of debate?
Or is it the other kind, the one that goes my way or the highway.
August 20th, 2009 at 5:10 pmwhoa there buckaroo, you’re the one that came in with guns a blazin, threatening us with the mother of all debates over the 10th amendment.
rein that filly in and let here cool down a bit. You’re riding her too hard.
August 20th, 2009 at 5:10 pmmsims2 says:
Do you feel that the existence of the F.B.I. is reason enough for a ‘10th Amendment debate?’
Law enforcement is a service like health care, is it not?
What do you mean, ‘10th Amendment debate?’
August 20th, 2009 at 5:11 pmlet’s see, you “said” you had a permanent majority…..how’s that working out?
you “said” a black man would never reside in the white house…..hmm.
you said a deregulated free market economy would usher in a new era of prosperity……hmm.
I guess the others are right. You don’t know your a$$ from a gopher hole.
August 20th, 2009 at 5:13 pmFred! now your speakin my kinda language. It’s not me threatening the debate, it’s already started. Can’t say I disagree though.
August 20th, 2009 at 5:14 pmA nuclear option? Obviously the founding fathers never included this bit of Republican fantasy in their ideals. This is a new idea, propagated by a minority who is out of power, out of ideas and totally out of touch.
When an elected minority feels it has the power to over ride the decisions of the majority either they are deluded or totally scared.
There is no nuclear option in US politics as defined by the Constitution. Anyone who claims it is trying to go beyond the law and overthrow the government.
August 20th, 2009 at 5:14 pmmsims2 says:
You may think conservatives are a bunch of back water hillbillies that add nothing to the national debate, and thats ok. You have misjudged us.
August 20th, 2009 at 4:49 pm
_______________
True, we have misjudged you. Some of you are suburban and even urban hillbillies that add nothing to the national debate.
August 20th, 2009 at 5:16 pmFred, you dissapoint. Just when I thought we were making some headway.
I dont recall making any statements about a black guy.. thats your bigotry coming out.
As for the economy, all I have to say is Barney’s Frank is so far up Freddie’s Fannie….
August 20th, 2009 at 5:17 pmFor the Repulizan, overthowing the government all they ever think about any more, period. FAIL.
August 20th, 2009 at 5:17 pmmsims2 says:
You are so caught up in your euphoria…
Don’t have much to be euphoric about with liars and con-artists routinely dominating the news and getting the rednecks all worked up over lies.
.
msims2 says:
…you fail to realize what is going on around you at the state level. Arizona has already begun legislation in the house that will flatly reject obamacare for the citizens of that great state. Texas is getting there.
While that would be a 10th amendment argument, it would be a ridiculous one, as the law on it is alread settled. States only reserve rights to legislation that has not been taken up at the Federal level. In any case, no State gets to prevent the Federal government from enacting a program within its borders. State governments may decline to participate in implementing something, but they can’t actually block it. That would be like a state government telling the F.B.I. that they couldn’t conduct an investigation in that state. Not gonna fly.
What you call a “10th amendment debate” pretty much amounts to jumping up and down in tinfoil hats and making crap up and pretending it’s law, regardless of what the law actually says.
.
msims2 says:
Anyway, glad I got you hot and bothered.
Cool as a cucumber. Thanks for your concern though.
August 20th, 2009 at 5:19 pmmsims2 says:
Fred! now your speakin my kinda language. It’s not me threatening the debate, it’s already started. Can’t say I disagree though.
August 20th, 2009 at 5:14 pm
_______________
That’s where you’re wrong. Just because some people like to mindlessly argue that 2+2=5 or that the world is 6,000 years old doesn’t mean that there’s actually a debate over these topics. It just means that some people have difficulty accepting reality.
August 20th, 2009 at 5:20 pmYet more evidence supporting the idea that the myriad of arcane rules of the Senate need to be streamlined.
After all, don’t the repubs call for streamlining and making things efficient ?
And to state the obvious: If the repubs use the budget reconcilliation, it is democracy. If the dems use it, it is nuclear. If the dems buy a candy bar, it is nuclear.
August 20th, 2009 at 5:20 pmmsims2 says:
I dont recall making any statements about a black guy.. thats your bigotry coming out.
As for the economy, all I have to say is Barney’s Frank is so far up Freddie’s Fannie….
August 20th, 2009 at 5:17 pm
_______________
What were you saying about bigotry again?
August 20th, 2009 at 5:22 pmmsims2 says:
As for the economy, all I have to say is Barney’s Frank is so far up Freddie’s Fannie….
Always happy to debunk this. Neither Freddie Mac or Fannie Mae were the causes of the financial collapse. In fact, they were only peripherally involved in it, if at all.
The law that Frank blocked wouldn’t necessarily have improved their stability. In fact, turning those agencies over to private speculators (which is all he prevented) would likely have made their position a lot worse.
The mortgage industry at large took advantage of Republican deregulation to screw themselves and everybody else. Just like when the S&L’s were deregulated before that. In fact, every push for deregulation has historically been followed by a total collapse of the deregulated industry within a decade. This is no different, and hardly surprising.
August 20th, 2009 at 5:22 pmthats your bigotry coming out.
As for the economy, all I have to say is Barney’s Frank is so far up Freddie’s Fannie….
Psst… your bigotry is showing, msims2! You might want to cover it up with an LOL or something…
August 20th, 2009 at 5:22 pmI asked you this before but you conveniently avoided it for obvious reasons.
Who will lead your side in their debate for “justice” gonzo, rummy, wolfowitz? Who on your side has any credibility left?
August 20th, 2009 at 5:24 pmdude, you totally exposed me. Sorry to any homosexual who may have taken offense.
August 20th, 2009 at 5:27 pmFred, I believe Governor Perry has already made his intentions clear
August 20th, 2009 at 5:28 pmmsims2 says:
dude, you totally exposed me. Sorry to any homosexual who may have taken offense.
Wanna talk about the Gramm Leach Bliley act and how banking de-regulation affected the sub-prime crisis?
Or should we talk about how Republican’s have NOTHING to bring to the table on healthcare and so can only say, ‘NO!’
See why no one wants to ‘debate’ you guys?
August 20th, 2009 at 5:32 pmha, if tejas pulls out there will be even more illegal immigrants coming to the us. the texans.
August 20th, 2009 at 5:32 pmmsims2 says:
Fred, I believe Governor Perry has already made his intentions clear
And I believe that the Civil War has already settled the issue of secession… are you advocating another one?
August 20th, 2009 at 5:32 pmmsims2 says:
Fred, I believe Governor Perry has already made his intentions clear
I look forward to prosecuting a second Civil War against the wingnuts, using modern weaponry this time. It will be short, but immensely satisfying for the Left.
Make my day.
:D
August 20th, 2009 at 5:43 pmAugust 20th, 2009 at 5:43 pm
What can be expected from a bunch of made-up, hairsprayed, middle-aged MassCom majors?
They’re no more fit to report news than old sims here is.
August 20th, 2009 at 5:47 pmha, if tejas pulls out there will be even more illegal immigrants coming to the us. the texans.
Got to admit, that was funny Fred.
August 20th, 2009 at 5:48 pmafter you secede, sims, you can call me about buying some water.
August 20th, 2009 at 5:50 pmYou guys are on a role! We’ll trade for oil
August 20th, 2009 at 5:53 pm40 msims2 said,
I personally regret every time I try to debate with a Republican. In fact, it is impossible to have a debate with a Republican, because they do not debate. They state opinion as fact, and no fact presented them that is contrary to their opinion has any effect.
It’s a lot like trying to debate with furniture.
August 20th, 2009 at 6:00 pmRepublizan are hopeless. sorry – i know it will mean a new party or two will be needed, but the Republicans are hopeless.
August 20th, 2009 at 6:05 pmMimsie the second @ # 59 says:
The Arizona initiative you reference will be on the ballot in Nov 2010, and its only stipulation is that AZ residents will retain the option to purchase and provide the healthcare of their choice. Hardly a flat out rejection of Obamacare, as you call it, and the proposed “Obamacare” bill does nothing to remove peoples choice of keeping their preferred insurance anyway. Shows the Repubs here are no smarter than in DC.
As a resident of the great state of Arizona, I should remind you that AZ voters rejected a similar bill in 2008, Prop 101.
My prediction is it doesnt have a snowballs chance in the desert of ever being passed.
Next?
Peace :)
August 20th, 2009 at 6:07 pmI can’t believe the Republicans will survive. Thank god for democracy!!
August 20th, 2009 at 6:07 pmnow you’re boring me.
Levi, dungbeetle, whatever you wish to be called, I am not here to debate you. Why would I believe that anything productive would come from that? We have different philosophies about the role of government.
Here’s a little insight:
When I turned 16, my parents offered to help me buy a car. I politely declined. They also said they would help with insurance. No thank you. Why would I decline such an offer? I saw how my friend’s parents leveraged the car they gave young Johnny when he misbehaved.
Liberty can be difficult.
August 20th, 2009 at 6:10 pmI can live without oil, homie.
can you live without water??
p.s. – you wouldn’t understand “liberty” if it bit your ass.
August 20th, 2009 at 6:12 pmbuffalo nickel:
The Arizona initiative you reference will be on the ballot in Nov 2010, and its only stipulation is that AZ residents will retain the option to purchase and provide the healthcare of their choice. Hardly a flat out rejection of Obamacare, as you call it, and the proposed “Obamacare” bill does nothing to remove peoples choice of keeping their preferred insurance anyway. Shows the Repubs here are no smarter than in DC.
Actually, Obamacare stipulates that if you change your current insurance for any reason, you are subjected to the government option going forward. No thanks
August 20th, 2009 at 6:12 pmmsims2, we tried real hard to explain things to you, but we are not going to play republican games any more. That’s for republicans. FAIL.
August 20th, 2009 at 6:15 pmtombaker:
The only reason we cannot use an aquifer that is 700ft deep is because some dumb ass lefty decided it was more important to save a blind salomander than let the communities draw below 640ft.
With you out of the way, we’ll all have salomander stew and be using the water hose for a broom.
August 20th, 2009 at 6:16 pmI never served in the military because I was not from a military family, and it was never stressed as important. I was supposed to get an education, which I did, and get a career, which I also did.
A big part of me wishes I had gone into the military, because I really needed a big dose of discipline. I am certain my grade point average in college would have been much higher had I just gone through basic training. I have spent my leisure time studying of military history, strategy and tactics. Some of my hobbies include target shooting, physical training and self-defense.
The reason I have chosen to divulge all this, is because if Texas does secede from the union, I am still not to old to join the military to go fight. I am a wiz with a rifle, and I am in excellent shape physically.
If Texas does try to secede, the oil is the first thing that is going to be retaken. Trust me Texas, you don’t want some red neck Yankees having to come down there and lay a whole pile of hurt on you again. Personally I hope you do, I could still use more discipline in my life.
August 20th, 2009 at 6:19 pmmsims2 said,
August 20th, 2009 at 6:20 pmWhat are you here for?
Why does msims2 wade in the republican shit pit? doesn’t he know what they have become? Is he like them?
August 20th, 2009 at 6:21 pmhey Levi, I did join the Army, was a paratrooper in the 82nd Airborne Division, then went to college and now have a career. sorry you are such a poser, and never fulflled that part of your life’s dream. Sounds to me like you are trying to make up for it now by acting like a tough guy. Why don’t you suit up and defend this great country now… because your all talk
August 20th, 2009 at 6:22 pmmsims2,
I have been defending my country from fascist theocrat Republicans for the last 10 years wielding the pen, instead of the sword.
It appears that I may be called upon to put down the pen, and take up the sword. I will be very happy to fight for my country should the need arise, and it will be no problem for me to fight against my fellow Americans, if they are fascists.
I would like to know what you meant by a poser? I have to assume you called me a poser as some kind of insult. I don’t think I have posed to be anything I am not. What do you think poser means exactly? I know you wingnuts have trouble with the meanings of words and phrases, like “nuclear option”.
To me, a poser would be someone that claims to be in the military, but was not, instead of someone that claims to have not been in the military. It seems much more likely that you are the poser.
August 20th, 2009 at 6:31 pmmsims2 says:
How about ACORN’s role in the foreclosure problems?
There was none. No evidence of any such role has been provided by anyone, anywhere, ever. It’s just another fantasy substituted for fact.
.
msims2 says:
Also, I love how you guys defend Frank by dissmissing his role.
I specified precisely what his role was. The Republicans wanted to turn Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac over to private speculators. That would have made them much less stable than they were. Frank blocked that amendment.
.
msims2 says:
The fact is, so many companies were so heavliy invested in Fanny & Freddie due to the “stability” of these psuedo govt enterprises. Do you think the collapse of their stock had anything to do with what happened to the stock market?
The collapse of the overall mortgage industry caused the collapse of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
.
msims2 says:
As for sucession.. that is a pipe dream. If we could just cut off the tip (North East tip that is) that would be fine with me.
I’d be willing to return the bulk of Texas to Mexico. We’ll call the development of the area interest on the loan.
.
msims2 says:
buffalo nickel:
Actually, Obamacare stipulates that if you change your current insurance for any reason, you are subjected to the government option going forward. No thanks
No it doesn’t. Unless you’re referring to “Obamacare” as your imaginary version of the bill, rather than the actual health care bill being considered by Congress. In which case it says whatever you think is scariest.
.
msims2 says:
hey Levi, I did join the Army, was a paratrooper in the 82nd Airborne Division, then went to college and now have a career.
All Internet Republicans are combat veterans and small business owners… 100% of them, in fact. Yep, yep.
August 20th, 2009 at 6:33 pmmsims2, you are so focused on minushia that you can’t see the Republizan criminals for what they are.
August 20th, 2009 at 6:35 pmA poser is someone who plays with their little military men, studying strategy, and playing with guns. whistfully thinking about how they should have been a man. Hell, our country was attacked and that did not prompt a response from you? You seem awfully eager to point your gun at fellow Americans. By the way, if you are fighting facsism, you are on the wrong side. Not that we want you…
August 20th, 2009 at 6:42 pmmsims2 says:
A poser is someone who plays with their little military men, studying strategy, and playing with guns. whistfully thinking about how they should have been a man.
A Republican. Got it. We refer to them as “chickenhawks.” Also the “fighting 101st chairborne.”
.
msims2 says:
Hell, our country was attacked and that did not prompt a response from you?
Well, not to attack a random country that had nothing to do with it and let the people behind the attack go free. Which apparently is the response it provoked from you lot.
August 20th, 2009 at 6:51 pmOnce again I am amazed at how the left is so hypocritcal. Yall constantly go on about how those of the right are intolerant or hateful. They have nothing on the left, liberal spew hate like a firehose.
August 20th, 2009 at 6:51 pmELbruce, I’m sure the dungbeetle appreciates your help. He’s probably studying his military strategy books.
As for all of your lies about deregulation & acorn, why dont you educate yourself:
August 20th, 2009 at 6:54 pmhttp://www.heritage.org/Research/Economy/wm1881.cfm
After cash for clunkers, I knew this would be next up.
http://www.cnbc.com/id/32490783?__source=CNBC|REM|TW|08202009
I expect a laundry list of budget busters in the next year.
August 20th, 2009 at 6:54 pmgivemelibertyordeath says:
Once again I am amazed at how the left is so hypocritcal. Yall constantly go on about how those of the right are intolerant or hateful. They have nothing on the left, liberal spew hate like a firehose.
Stop trying to destry my country, traitor.
Also, go die in a fire kthxbai.
.
msims2 says:
As for all of your lies about deregulation & acorn, why dont you educate yourself
The Heritage Foundation does not “educate” by any stretch of the imagination. I stick to public facts only.
August 20th, 2009 at 6:58 pmApe-man: sorry, I have not responded to you yet. I quit being a republican when they rolled out McCain to represent us. I also am not so blind as to see the error in the ways of my old party. You guys crack me up though, talking about republican b.s, and fox news bias, blah blah blah. You are the lemmings, getting your news from MSNBC,NBC,CBS,ABC- my god, talk about bias. I’ll admit I cringe when I hear Sean Hannity speak ( he’s a hack), but Fox is about the only station that is not just plain in the tank for your party. At least I can be honest about their slant
August 20th, 2009 at 7:03 pmmsims2, we now have proof the Bush-Cheney team hyped the terror alert level to cheat their way to votes they didn’t deserve. That’s worth dropping your support for the republicans.
August 20th, 2009 at 7:04 pmpublic facts, meaning the stuff you make up and post here?
August 20th, 2009 at 7:06 pmapeman- I have not read the article yet, but I will certainly give it a balanced look. If that is true, you are right. But as I said, I have already ditched the party. That doesnt change my political views though, and Bush-Cheney are gone, so it’s not like they are losing my vote. Maybe you sould take the blinders off and take an introspective look into your own party.
August 20th, 2009 at 7:09 pmmsims2, so you know, and acknowledge that we need to stick to the knowable truth. I guess we both agree then that the truth is not forthcoming from the republicans.
August 20th, 2009 at 7:09 pmmsims2 says:
…but Fox is about the only station that is not just plain in the tank for your party.
Um, actually it’s the only station that’s plain in the tank for either party. All of the other ones report news.
Hint: if everybody but you is crazy, it’s probably you that’s crazy. The same holds true for FAUX Noise vs. every other media outlet in the world.
August 20th, 2009 at 7:34 pmmsims2,
poser
In the context you used the word, you might be correct that I am a wanna-be soldier, I would not disagree with that. But I am not pretending to be something I am not. I am simply someone who made life choices that did not include military service.
If I had the chance to go back and do things over, I would have enlisted as soon as I graduated high school. (It would have been great fun just to watch my father’s head explode when I would have told him.) We all make life choices that we later regret. Fortunately it’s not to late for me. Crazy fascist Republicans may yet give me a chance to serve my country, and I will do so gladly. The tree of liberty thirsts for the blood of wingnuts.
As for signing up after 9/11, I was not convinced at the time, and I am still not convinced, that 9/11 wasn’t a false flag operation. I am, however, convinced that fighting against Republican style fascism is the greatest honor an American can hope for.
August 20th, 2009 at 7:38 pmmsims2 might want to avoid attacks of a personal nature, considering what’s up with his mother and all…
August 20th, 2009 at 7:51 pmLevi,
I am, however, convinced that fighting against Republican style fascism is the greatest honor an American can hope for
El Bruce,
Stop trying to destry my country, traitor.
Also, go die in a fire kthxbai
August 20th, 2009 at 8:42 pm—
and you guys probably dont support waterboarding:0 gotcha
Of course we don’t support waterboarding. Waterboarding is torture, and it is against US and international law.
You can’t seriously tell us you support the use of torture?
August 20th, 2009 at 9:00 pmmsims2 says:
and you guys probably dont support waterboarding
Of course not. What are you, crazy? Waterboarding is illegal, and the government should not do it in my name. I feel the same way about death penalties.
I merely invited givemelibertyordeath to end his own life with dignity, is all.
August 20th, 2009 at 9:37 pmmsims2 says:
Hey MORON Bush used reconsiliation to pass his tax cuts. The GOP threatened to END the filibuster rule. You are not only stupid you are a hypocrite by the way why are you so STUPID? You LOST the election
August 20th, 2009 at 10:14 pmgivemelibertyordeath says:
Once again I am amazed at how the left is so hypocritcal. Yall constantly go on about how those of the right are intolerant or hateful. They have nothing on the left, liberal spew hate like a firehose.
I know your side thinks hypocrisy is being talked down to with facts that you can’t shout over with your loud voice.
To put it simply, people like yourself think a living will or the option of is a “death panel”. How are we supposed to have any sort conversation when your side shuts your own brains off to your own synapses making this connection?
August 20th, 2009 at 10:48 pmI’m sorry but am I SUPPOSED to care what they call it? I mean really, who gives a rats ass what they think at this point? We have a job to do and we will get it done. Let them squabble on the sidelines while we get the work done.
August 20th, 2009 at 11:07 pmIt’s having its last big fling before school starts.
August 20th, 2009 at 11:15 pmEugenedeb: and you are not a re-run of Olberman?
by the way MORON, reconciliation is used for purposes of passing a budget. Taxes happen to be part of that budget. bet you would have squawked if Bush used it to end your weekly welfare check. Love you like a brother:)
August 20th, 2009 at 11:16 pmmsims2 says:
My arent you stupid today. Well everyday. I dont watch any TV news the only thing I know about Olbermann is what I read here. I am a reader. I dont do TV except for movies.
So then its ok to use reconsiliation or what YOU called circumvent the checks and balances that a 60 vote majority entails for what YOU like but not for what Dems want. Is it somehow NOT circumventing the checks and balances that a 60 vote majority entails when it is doing something you approve of?
As usual MORON you dont know what you are talking about. Since 1996 reconsiliation has been used for any legislation AFFECTING THE BUDGET. Which a healthcare bill certainly WOULD. Republicans TRIED to use it to open up ANWAR for drilling. So do you EVER know what you are talking about or is reruns of Rush all you are capable of?
August 21st, 2009 at 12:34 amthe question is how would opening up ANWAR affect the budget?
August 21st, 2009 at 4:40 am… this just in -
michael smirkonish used the term this morning on the TODAY show…
you’d think HE’d know better… not?
“give ‘em and inch…”
August 21st, 2009 at 8:55 amEugenedeb:
what you are failing to realize ( as usual) is that a tax cut is a revenue decision. creating an entitlement program that will consume 1/6 of the economy is a little different. Anyone ever looked up the definition of fascism? You folks seem to toss that around quite a bit.
1 often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition
2 : a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control
you really think it is appropriate to change America this drastically just because you have a slim majority? The fact remains that this country is severely divided, yet you Liberals believe that 1/2 of the country should just give in. You call us an angry mob when we raise our voioces in protest. You cant imagine that we would attend town halls without some group organizing us ( anyone heard of acorn by the way?). Remember the pie in your face activists who also shouted down conservative lectures at Columbia University? probably not.You marginalize us and demonize us when our opinions differ, you politicize WAR… where are the anti war protesters now that Obaman is in office with 100K troops still in Iraq & 70K in Afghanistan? You call us fascists when it is your party trying to ramrod your liberal philosophy down our throats. You call us rascist, but 92% of black people support Obama ( really, 92% support his policies, or do they support him because he is black..which is rascist). And you wonder why we feel the need to argue for States rights? Really, if I wanted a handout, I would move to Massachusetts… hows that health care plan going for ya?
have a nice day:)
August 21st, 2009 at 12:08 pm