GOP Senators Call For New 75-80 Vote Superfilibuster Standard On Health Reform
GOP Senators Call For New 75-80 Vote Superfilibuster Standard On Health Reform
Speaking on Fox News last night, Sen. Orrin Hatch (R-UT) claimed that health care reform should not happen because it doesn’t enjoy “bipartisan” support, adding that a bill cannot be bipartisan unless it garners “somewhere between 75 and 80 votes.” Watch it:
Hatch is hardly the only conservative senator to float a 75-80 vote supermajority requirement for health reform. Sen. Chuck Grassley (R-IA), who is currently blocking attempts to fix the health care system, told the Washington Post that “[w]e ought to be focusing on getting 80 votes.” Sen. Mike Enzi (R-WY) demanded “a bill that 75 or 80 senators can support.”
Hatch, Grassley, and Enzi all sang a very different tune when they were in the majority, however:
– Tax Cuts For The Rich: In May 2001, the Senate passed President Bush’s budget-breaking $1.35 trillion tax cuts with only 58 votes. Nevertheless, Hatch announced that he was “extremely proud of this bipartisan bill.” Grassley praised the tax cuts as “built upon bipartisanship,” and Enzi praised the Senate for passing the bill in a “bipartisan fashion.”
– Subsidies For Drug Companies: In November 2003, the Senate passed a prescription drug plan for seniors that was strongly backed by lobbyists for the pharmaceutical industry with only 54 votes. Nevertheless, Grassley released a statement praising himself as the “lead Senate architect of the bipartisan legislation” creating this plan.
– Nuclear Option: Four years ago, when Senate Democrats filibustered seven of President Bush’s 205 nominees to the federal bench, conservatives deemed the filibuster unconstitutional and invented a tactic known as the “nuclear option” to ram the blocked nominees through the Senate. Hatch and Grassley were on the vanguard of the movement to block any attempt to require judges to be confirmed by a supermajority. Hatch described the filibuster as “unconstitutional,” and Grassley described judicial filibusters as “an abuse of our function under the Constitution.”
Now that conservatives make up only a tiny minority of the Senate, however, they’ve decided that even the filibuster’s 60-vote threshold isn’t a strong enough barrier to block much-needed reform. Instead, Hatch, Grassley, and Enzi now want to impose a 75-80 vote superfilibuster standard that will effectively kill any health care plan they don’t personally approve of.
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Yeah, well they don’t get what they want any more.
August 20th, 2009 at 11:56 amAnd if the repubs lose the debate, and that size of senate majority appears, they will demand that every single senator must approve, or no deal.
August 20th, 2009 at 11:56 amOrrin doesn’t even know that this will be done without him does he?
August 20th, 2009 at 12:01 pmThey don’t want reform, they just want to make the president look bad.
Simply put, the Republicans don’t care about America.
August 20th, 2009 at 12:01 pmRepublikkkans can ‘take their country back’ when they pry it from our cold dead hands!
August 20th, 2009 at 12:02 pmHow does one work with a group of people with a memory shorter than that of a goldfish?
August 20th, 2009 at 12:02 pmHmmmm…smells like Republican fear to me.
I think they know by now that they probably cannot stop healthcare reform. seems that they are ready to throw in everything including the kitchen sink in order to obstruct it so as not to effect insurance company profit margins, despite reform benefitting a majority of American families.
August 20th, 2009 at 12:02 pmF uck you, Hatch.
Elections have consequences, and you lost. Now move aside, we’ve got shit to clean up.
August 20th, 2009 at 12:02 pmThe definition of a Republican: It’s only fair if I benefit from it.
August 20th, 2009 at 12:02 pmHatch, Grassley, and Enzi now want to impose a 75-80 vote superfilibuster standard
excuse me?!?!!!?
who are they to want to “impose” ANYthing???!!!
w t f ? ? ?
August 20th, 2009 at 12:03 pmLet’s flip this around… if this Bill is so terrible it really shouldn’t be all that difficult for Republicans to get 50-60 votes against it, should it?
August 20th, 2009 at 12:04 pmElections have consequences @ssholes! Get over it. You want a bi-partizan super-majority threshold for this bill well just ask the People. You remember the People don’t you? The ones you pander to every four years and try to convince that you care about. Read the polls and for once FACE THE FACTS! 70% of Americans want a public option! How’s that for a mandate you vile corporate owned scumsuckers? Now shut up and get out of the way before you are relegated to holding your pathetic circle-jerk meetings in the basement. I for one would LOVE to see some of these two-faced snake oil salesmen attempt an actual filibuster. Now THAT would be some funny shit!
August 20th, 2009 at 12:04 pmIt’s time to abolish the senate and end the stranglehold the microscopic upper class has on nearly all of us.
August 20th, 2009 at 12:05 pmHell, why not make it 99? Nobody needs Bernie Sanders’ vote, anyways.
August 20th, 2009 at 12:06 pmand another thing…
i keep hearing these righties claim they have put up all kinds of health care reform plans…
WHERE ARE THEY???
seriously – anyone have any links to such?
ed schultz offered 2 segments to some ex-rep-now-heritage very smarmy guy (istook?) who made that claim, if he would bring those plans to the show…
August 20th, 2009 at 12:06 pm“…Now that conservatives make up only a tiny majority of the Senate…”
um Ian, don’t you mean “MINORITY”?
August 20th, 2009 at 12:06 pmThe Republicans passed EVERYTHING they wanted during the Bush years and the country went to hellenahandbasket. They seldom had even 60 votes in the Senate. When they held the chairmanship, they shut off the microphones of Democratic speakers. They made us hold meetings in the basement.
Now, they spew lies about ‘death panels’ instead of engaging constructively. They bring nothing to the table.
They are not in charge anymore. Let them gripe from the sidelines while we get on with fixing their messes. The deserve all the obscurity they could possible get.
August 20th, 2009 at 12:07 pmI believe this person has a handle on the reality.
August 20th, 2009 at 12:08 pm
NO FCUKING WAY !
August 20th, 2009 at 12:10 pmThe sad thing about what Hatch says is that it is probably true. Democrats have the advantage and yet they act like frightened children instead a ruling majority. Bipartisanship is NOT going to happen with these Republicans, they have proved it time and time again. It is time for Dems to grow some balls, sweep the Republicans aside and get on with doing what is right for this country.
August 20th, 2009 at 12:11 pmWhy don’t the filthy, lying, obstructionist, corporate owned Regressives make a show of good faith and give up their government run socialistic healthcare to show the people they mean business? Oh…they love their healthcare plan even though the government who can’t run anything right runs it? Well GO CHENEY YOURSELVES DRY GOP…AND YOUR LITTLE WATCHDOG TOO!
August 20th, 2009 at 12:14 pmaquarius2
Do any of you think that the following was not the plan all along?
Democrats prepare to push health care without GOP
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090820/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_obama_health_care
Some Democrats said Democratic researchers have concluded lately that a strong-arm tactic on Senate health care legislation that would negate the need for any GOP votes might be more effective than previously thought.
The strategy, called “reconciliation,” allows senators to get around a bill-killing filibuster without mustering the 60 votes usually needed. Democrats control 60 of the Senate’s 100 seats,
On Wednesday, Jim Manley, spokesman for Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., warned Republicans that reconciliation is a real option
August 20th, 2009 at 12:14 pmaquarius2 says:
It is time for Dems to grow some balls, sweep the Republicans aside and get on with doing what is right for this country.
August 20th, 2009 at 12:11 pm
____________
Yeah, good luck with that one. They have enough trouble sweeping aside the Blue Dogs in their own party…
August 20th, 2009 at 12:14 pmThere’s a little dirtbag repuke voting comments down.
August 20th, 2009 at 12:14 pmWhy is it that the Dems think that “bipartisan” equals “repiggie?”
It doesn’t.
The repiggies have been responsible for the most colossally inept decisions for the past 15 years, especially the past eight years.
They lost in November. The majority did not choose to continue their crappy policies.
Screw the repiggies, and screw the teabagger trash.
Dems need to step up to the plate, and to enact real health care reform.
If not, they can kiss their progressive base goodbye. They would never be trusted again.
Dems must realize that the repiggies will not cooperate on anything. The repiggies just want a return to power for themselves and their wealthy friends.
August 20th, 2009 at 12:15 pm75-80 is Hatched & GrAssley’s average age, by the way.
Republics are like cheese; full of holes & smell as they age…
August 20th, 2009 at 12:17 pmWho gave that number to these Senators? Private insurance companies? May be Obama himself? Somebody isn’t honest here with the people.
August 20th, 2009 at 12:17 pmSen. Oral Snatch was a scumbag from the day he showed in the Senate and is still one of the biggest, corporate-sucking jerks to ever serve in office.
And he’s a racist POS too!!!
August 20th, 2009 at 12:17 pmAh yes…Hatch.
The man that waved around “Valley of the Dolls” during the Clarence “Kooky” Thomas hearings.
Ya Mr. Hatch…I can believe and trust you. NOT!
August 20th, 2009 at 12:17 pmThe MINORITY party wants to move the goalposts so they can overrule the MAJORITY? The MAJORITY of the American people demand reform you insane bastards, isnt THAT whats supposed to matter?
Oh, thats right, that has’nt mattered for years now.
The Dems need to invoke reconciliation just like the Repubs did repeatedly during Bushco’s reign of terror, and shove health reform up the collective asses of the MINORITY party, just like the public wants them to.
Peace :)
August 20th, 2009 at 12:19 pmGeorge says – Hehehe, when I was dictator we ignored that pesky Democrat party, their ideas helped the have-nots, and that’s helping the super rich get richer, and now that I got away with War Crimes and murder, I am enjoying seeing the Democrat party being bullied by my brothers in crime…fool me once…er…fool can’t get fooled again…that’s for Harry Reid…he’s getting fooled…trying to work with our Nazi Mafia in the Senate…hehe, they’ll never learn…right Dick?
Dick says – I need fresh blood from cute kittens and puppies.
August 20th, 2009 at 12:20 pmI guess they all got the Marching Order for the day. Stay together to OBSTRUCT anything that would help the country and keep their sponsors rich and in control of our health.
August 20th, 2009 at 12:21 pm51 works for me Senator A$$hat.
August 20th, 2009 at 12:22 pmOnce again I will risk being shouted down by the liberals and Democrats that I once considered myself.
You deserve to lose on health care. You deserve to be voted out of office. The Democrats are simply too weak, too scared and too incompetent to govern. I am sorry but the Republicans are right. Democrats are nothing more than girlee boy whimps.
A majority of the people in this country want a public option. Hell, they want single payer if you really push it. Obama and the Democrats came into power with significant majorities and with the full support of the majority of the public. How could it not be otherwise after the FUBAR mess left by BUSH AND CO.
The Democrats have flushed all of that down the toilet by failing to show courage, backbone and the willingness to fight that is necessary to govern.
I can see giving up single payer as an opening tactic. Bold, smacking of bipartisanship. But it has been obvious for a long time that the Repugs are not going to bargain in good faith. Yet we do not fight back. Obama still argues that he wants a bipartisan bill. Good fu***** luck on that. He will give up a public option even though it will kill support for reform.
Why are the Republicans suggesting a super majority? Because they know that they will not be called out for what they are.
Stop blaming the Republicans. Start looking at ourselves and our inability to get off our backs and fight.
August 20th, 2009 at 12:22 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Please Democrats, tell Assley and the rest of these scum bags to…
…go fcuk themselves…when the hell are the Dems going to realize that they are being used by these Anti-American Corporate Whores?
Oh, forgot, the Dems are afraid of upsetting the Repuke base, and getting a backlash from them…
…from us, not so much.
August 20th, 2009 at 12:24 pmSen. Flaky White Guy wants to see America crumble before his time comes to be a corpse in a box. Regressives are pushing to schedule America for a morning trash pickup. Orin Hatched but I can’t say the same for his brain or morality.
August 20th, 2009 at 12:25 pmRethugs just move along in their alternate universe practicing their alternate reality. They offer nothing but lies and obstruction to anything that comes up. They are pathetic human beings.
August 20th, 2009 at 12:26 pmWho cares what the repugs think anymore.They dont give a sht about the American people.
August 20th, 2009 at 12:26 pmTheir goal is to just disrupt anything that Obama tries to do.
Healthcare with the public option,RAM IT THRU!!!
I know if I held a super majority I would censure all these fascist Republicans.
August 20th, 2009 at 12:27 pmOne problem, IMHO, is that the Democrats have not been willing to lie, bend or break Congressional rules, or use other morally bankrupt tactics to debate issues or get things done. How do you win when the other side is willing to cheat? Do the Democrats have to use the same dirty tricks? I hope not as I have been glad to see Obama and other Democrats taking the high road and seeking reasonable debate, compromise, and bipartisanship. However, the Republicans have been given their rope and its time to hang them with it, that is the Democrats need to forcefully and repeatedly do exactly what Barney Frank did. But, it needs to be done everywhere, including and especially on the floor of the House and Senate. Democrats need to call their Republican colleagues on their lies and insinceity, labelling them as such.
August 20th, 2009 at 12:27 pmradio ed is talking about this info at john dingle’s website:
* This year, each insured American family will pay $1,017 in insurance premiums to cover the medical expenses of the uninsured
* Insured singles will pay $368 per year
* That’s $42.7 billion dollars this year – or $1,354 per second
August 20th, 2009 at 12:28 pmWow… talk about moving the goal posts.
What’s next, Orrin…
Gonna put the whole Democratic Party on DOUBLE SECRET PROBATION???
August 20th, 2009 at 12:28 pmI demand single payer.
August 20th, 2009 at 12:28 pmsscncturn64 says:
Who cares what the repugs think anymore. RAM IT THRU!!!
____________
And after that… make sure you PASS a healthcare bill… too!
What? What???
It’s a joke… sheesh…
August 20th, 2009 at 12:29 pmI’d like to see the Democrats remove from the healthcare bill ALL amendments offered by Republicans, including the “advance directive consultation” proposal. Set these aside and vote on them separately. If the GOP wants 75-80 Senate votes, they can have them on these elements.
August 20th, 2009 at 12:30 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
The only way, throughout the last forty years, that the GOP has ever been successful is through, lies, dirty tricks, and crimes. They are a worthless bunch of thugs.
August 20th, 2009 at 12:31 pmJOMHR: I agree with you to a certain extent. The DEMs were unprepared for the onslaught from the Right Wing Lobbyist and FOX. That being said, I can only hope that the DEMS will forget about all this bipartisanship BS, as it is not going to happen. If in fact the DEMS are unable to come together and successfully get REAL healthcare reform passed this year, then the outlook is glum.
But for Hatch to hatch a “supermajority call” is more BS that should be slammed by every DEM with a keypad. Contact your legislators and demand a change. You have no idea the delight I take in contacting my senator, CORNYN of TX…at least one GOP Senator knows that I am against his political stance!
August 20th, 2009 at 12:31 pmWe need to apply pressure to the White House and demand that Obama start fighting back. He needs to hear from us in crushing numbers. He is not taking the left seriously and does not seem to understand the impact that he is having.
August 20th, 2009 at 12:32 pmAt the end of the day, the Democrats only need 50 votes to pass a bill in the Senate, plus Biden’s tie-breaker. Filibuster threats (and it has been years since an actual filibuster occurred) only alter the tactics of drafting and passage.
The Democrats might even consider taking the Republicans up on a filibuster threat and make them actually go forward with it, thus shutting down the Senate’s business. Eventually enough Senators with their own pet bills to pass will want to reopen for business and invoke cloture. And the obstruction may play out like Newt’s “contract on America” government shutdown – a PR disaster for the right.
August 20th, 2009 at 12:33 pmHatch also put forward a compromise which would only require 40 votes, and only Republicans would be allowed to vote.
August 20th, 2009 at 12:33 pmthis lady lost her son to colon cancer because he could not get a colonoscopy, as prescribed, because he had no insurance…
now she’s an advocate: http://lifeomike.org/
… as heard on ed…
August 20th, 2009 at 12:34 pmThat’s why the Dems should just go ahead and pass the Health Care Bill without the repugs. It doesn’t matter what President Obama says or does these repugs are going reject everything he does.
There just like big cry-baby’s Hatch, Grassley, and Enzi just because there not getting there way.
BTW WTF!?!… Ridge admits that he was pressured to raise the terror alert to help Bush win re-election in 2004???
August 20th, 2009 at 12:34 pmTaylor Doose says:
Can’t blame Republicans for trying—what I don’t get though, is why Barry and the Democrats have allowed the Republicans to bully them into submission?
==========================================================
His title is President of the United States to you hateful morons. He has not allowed them to beat him into submission. Since you are too feable minded to figure out what is happening, he has tried to be professional and diplomatic and cooperative to have them join the game. That is something the thugs who supported the most evil administration ever can understand. The submission will come now that the repiggies have blown their wad.
August 20th, 2009 at 12:35 pmsee post #24
You give up too easy. This is far from over.
August 20th, 2009 at 12:35 pmJMOHR
I have no interest in shouting you down. You are very intelligent. However, I must offer my counteropinion that even a democratic majority that can’t come to terms with the strength of its majority and the voters’ will to enact a progressive agenda is workable in ways unimaginable in the last eight years.
One thing we can take out of this is, while we’ve been complaining that there’s been too much reaching over to the people who got us in this mess, we are now on record as having made the effort to do so. Now we can go our own way, and the majority in the Senate is slowly rallying. Maybe the WH will see the light, since Obama is still very much in love with what goes on the Senate as if he were still a senator.
August 20th, 2009 at 12:35 pmHatch always was a crotchety bastard. He seems to have gotten even more vinegar-y since the start of this Congress.
Trying to argue or negotiate with him (or Grassley. or Enzi) is, to quote Barney Frank, like trying to argue with a dining room table.
Our best hope (that stands a shot in hell of working) is for the HELP committee to hammer out some differences with the Finance committe, ensure that a strong public option remains, and ram the bill down the Repubs throats with reconciliation. Political paypack will have never tasted so sweet.
(you know, until a truly progressive Congress gets elected and HR676 finds its way to becoming law)
August 20th, 2009 at 12:37 pmSo, the more bipartisan the better ?
Iraq war authorization ?
Patriot act ?
Yeah, those didn’t suck did they ?
August 20th, 2009 at 12:37 pmThis seems like an overreaction.
August 20th, 2009 at 12:37 pmI wonder what the conservatives are worried about?
Fred you said
Wish I could believe that Fred. Just do not see the actions to support that result. This will not happen unless we (the public) force it to happen. What have you done to apply pressure to your rep, sen and the president? This is a wake up call.
August 20th, 2009 at 12:39 pmNews flash:
In response to Sen. Hatch’s proposal for a super-duper super majority to pass health reform legislation, a White House spokesperson offered a flexible compromise for all future legislation. Rather than a fixed number of votes to pass legislation, the White House proposes that only the number of affirmative votes plus 1 will be needed to pass bills, thereby always guaranteeing that the Republicans will get their way, as Gawd intended.
August 20th, 2009 at 12:42 pmYa gotta love the chyron under hatch in the picture above, BTW…
“New Developments“…
Only on Faux would someone like Orrin hatch babbling on about needing a 75 or 80 vote majority to pass a bill be considered a “New Development“.
You watch… by the time the GOOPers and Faux are done w/ this new bit of nonsense, they’ll be screaming about this dastardly power grab as the Dems try to get around the Constitutionally mandated 80 vote majority required to pass new legislation…
August 20th, 2009 at 12:43 pmWe could do that yes. Another idea would be that you go to hell. I’m personally leaning more towards the latter
August 20th, 2009 at 12:44 pmYo, dudes! The American people want a public plan by a percentage like 75 – 80..
August 20th, 2009 at 12:45 pmGet with it.
Lead or get the hell out of the way!
Write the President and tell him how you feel.
August 20th, 2009 at 12:45 pmWe’ve seen this scenario play out recently in California where the requirement of a supermajority is required to pass the state budget, and we know it causes major gridlock because parties tend to vote along party lines. It led CA to pass out IOUs. The republicans have just unveiled their new tactic to obstruct hc reform efforts. Watch them beat this dead horse again and again in the media over the next few weeks/months. Instead of obstructing, they should just stay in their homes/apartments/C Street while the serious members of Congress do what needs to be done.
August 20th, 2009 at 12:47 pmArt says:
This seems like an overreaction.
I wonder what the conservatives are worried about?
There worried about their tax cuts getting ready to expire in 2011 and they know there is no way in hell there going to get a tax cut. Also the “estate tax” is about to be expire as well.
August 20th, 2009 at 12:47 pmto bad his first name was not boobie >>
Sen Boobie hatch from Utah
August 20th, 2009 at 12:48 pmThe Republicans know that reconciliation is how the health care bill will be done. They don’t get to change the rules now and there is no reason for the Dems to agree. Republicans are panicking because the bill has now moved from a possibility to a probable.
August 20th, 2009 at 12:48 pmBrazen chutzpah barely describes it. I think 51 votes for Health Care Insurance Reform is just fine.
On the other hand, it sounds like ol’ Oren has been out vote counting among the Rs and has found out that he has a few wobbly guys, no offense to the Madam Senators from Maine. Like maybe 10 or 12 who are a little too loose on their mooring line?
August 20th, 2009 at 12:49 pmReid, tell the GOP Senators to go CHENEY THEMSELVES!
August 20th, 2009 at 12:52 pmArt says:
——————————————————————————–
This seems like an overreaction.
I wonder what the conservatives are worried about?
The will of the American people. They’re starting to realize that their tricks and lies ultimately wont win this time. The Insurance industry is beginning to realize that, too. Unlike 94, we have the ability to push back.
August 20th, 2009 at 12:53 pmhey IAN!
A Patriotic Anopheles Acting says:
“…Now that conservatives make up only a tiny majority of the Senate…”
um Ian, don’t you mean “MINORITY”?
August 20th, 2009 at 12:06 pm
i did a “whuuuh???” on that too, patriotic…
100 – 60 dems = majority?
August 20th, 2009 at 12:54 pmthanks fred, @20…
so, it’s all bluff and bluster…?
give ‘em credit forbeing ballsy…
August 20th, 2009 at 12:56 pmI enjoy listening to the pigs squeal.
August 20th, 2009 at 12:57 pmThat’s actually pretty offensive and I know you use that to try to get people to get up and do something but you don’t know me or you would never say such a thing.
I’m tired of doomsdayers. Go sit under a mushroom and cry.
August 20th, 2009 at 12:58 pmI recall you and others making the same claims before the election too.
August 20th, 2009 at 1:00 pmNah, let’s go with 60. That’s a good number.
For that matter 51 will work. Or 50 plus Biden.
August 20th, 2009 at 1:01 pmSo this is democrocy ???? requiring 70% to 80%.
When the elections were held, did the people give the mandate to the dems??? And isn’t important how many seats are required to maintain a majority in either the Senate or House of Reps?
When will the Dems tell the repugs to shut up and go back to school and lear the basics of math….50%+1 = Government… 60 +0 = we can do what the Fu** we want…get it???
August 20th, 2009 at 1:03 pmEXACTLY. Hatch’s suggestion for a Superfilibuster will result in only one outcome…a rise in Depends stock for when all the old Republican’s are stuck in chambers for 48 hours.
August 20th, 2009 at 1:14 pmHatch wisely and clearly sees a future with 25-30 Republican Senators.
August 20th, 2009 at 1:16 pm#36 JMOHR
Once again I will risk being shouted down by the liberals and Democrats that I once considered myself.
You won’t get shouted down by me – I think that what you said is pretty damn accurate – sad and disgusting, but true
August 20th, 2009 at 1:20 pmSorry, but it sounds like someone is getting a tad bit scared.
August 20th, 2009 at 1:23 pmIn other news from the Capitol, Republicans drafted legislation which would require Democrats to get 75-80% of the vote in order to win Congressional seats in the 2010 election. Several “blue dog” Democrats have signed on as co-sponsors of the bill.
August 20th, 2009 at 1:23 pmThey should simply be ashamed of themselves. They have no ideas when it comes to reform. I used to think it would be nice if democrats and republicans could work together, but now more. Screw them. Let’s not forget the last eight years, and why we voted in the democrats.
August 20th, 2009 at 1:24 pmI understand that the minority needs to be protected, but a 75-80 percent vote would be giving the minority just as much power as the majority and there would be no point to having a majority. Yes I also understand that is what the Republicants want, but IMO that become undemocratic and moves towards a true example of oligarchy.
August 20th, 2009 at 1:34 pmthanks, ian…
i know… you were thinking of the dem’s “tiny majority”…
August 20th, 2009 at 1:35 pmWhy are people getting hysterical about this? Nothing like this is going to happen. Repubs aren’t in charge of rules and this 70-75 vote thing is pure bull.
I have to say that at this point, when we’re not even close to the end game on this legislation and nobody is even voting on anything on either floor, I am extremely suspicious of people who come to these discussions saying “abandon the Dems.” Assuming you’re not trying to blow phony conservative smoke up our kiesters, you must know that if it’s hard to get universal coverage out of a Democratic congress, it would be absolutely impossible to get it from Republicans.
August 20th, 2009 at 1:37 pmThis topic is on the LABEL the Republiscams are going to attach to the legislation, not actual Senate rules on how many votes are required to MAKE LAW. All this is about is what color ribbons and bows to put around the package once a bill has passed in the Senate.
Hatch:
“I don’t think the Democrats have given Senator Baucus the flexibility to be able to put something together.”
Which translates to:
“All my Rot-wing friends and I won’t vote for a bill unless it makes the insurance and drug companies richer, so we can get more money from them.”
I do like the part Ian includes in his piece about the “nuclear option”. It should be considered seriously by the Dem leadership, once they actually get some…
August 20th, 2009 at 1:40 pmI agree. I would ask those people whether we would even be having this discussion about health care if not for Obama and the democrats.
August 20th, 2009 at 1:43 pmUnfortunately, I can see Harry Reid right now: I’ll really think about it.
August 20th, 2009 at 1:43 pmtony and lido
repugs’ bipartisanship means using their failed policies
repugs’ bipartisanship means accepting their lies
wars, recession, screwing the poor, people of color, the needy, no healthcare, their looneiness
FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUCCCCCCCKKKKK em. They are stupid anyway. I’ve refused to go back to teabaggin stupid.
Bipartisaniship means men and women. As long as the majority of women and men agree then it’s a win for all.
August 20th, 2009 at 1:43 pmThere is no need to break the law by following the republican lead of threatinging a nuclear option.
reconcilliation is a legitimate mechanism. We will use it.
August 20th, 2009 at 1:44 pmFred says:
Fred, Obama was headed down in the elections. He finally got his back up after a lot of supporters, liberal bloggers and commentators noted his failure to respond to stupid attacks. It was the McCain forgetting how many houses that he had moment when it occurred and the crash of the economy that gave him the election. You are right. I was one of the masses demanding that he fight back.
I am not crying and you sure as hell do not know me to make that statement. I want to see action out of our grass roots to guide the President and take up arms against the Republicans.
Why do you think the Repugs feel so inclined to lie about health care reform (with a fair amount of success in persuading the pubic in the latest polls?) It is because neither the President or our congressional members will call them out.
I can remember two examples of what needs to be done: Clinton on that FAUX interview when he took on the loaded question concerning going after Bin Laden. Barney Frank at his last town hall.
On the other hand – I did not mean to question what you have done personally. I should have said the Royal We as opposed to you. For that I apologize.
August 20th, 2009 at 1:46 pmIf the Democrats were to gain 75-80 votes, Republicans would then demand a superfilibuster standard of 100 votes…but it’s a moot point, because the Republicans will NEVER allow this to gain 75-80 votes.
August 20th, 2009 at 1:50 pmI think the big problem the Republicans have now is that the only weapon they have is the bought-and-paid-for media. They’re deep in minority territory, the loonies are making them look dangerously crazy–but the networks keep calling them up and listen reverently to whatever they say. They treat them like they’re 49.95%–if not more. And in the magic of those protected newroom, they believe it themselves.
An intelligent Republican would discount the media position as much as an intelligent Democrat: it’s just a weapon given to them by their corporate overlords. But all that teevee is mightily seductive…
Terry Schjavo was their big blunder: the polls were 80% against the hysterical butting in to a private family tragedy. Able politicians wold blanch at those numbers–but their pet media was asking them deferentially for more face time. And they ended up looking more and more crazy, because they ditched reality for media fluffing.
It’s infuriating that that this media distortion continues–But when they believe that big army behind them is just a blue screen, they start damaging themselves severely.
August 20th, 2009 at 1:51 pmbelaccifer lacca says:
Let’s flip this around… if this Bill is so terrible it really shouldn’t be all that difficult for Republicans to get 50-60 votes against it, should it?
You, my friend, have just exploded 1000 repugs’ brains.
August 20th, 2009 at 1:53 pmI am hoping that Obama and the Dems FINALLY learn their lesson on “bipartisanship”, but I’m not holding my breath.
Obama needs a shake up in his staff/cabinet. Rahm needs to go (he’s the “genius”, I believe, behind this bipartisan love in). I think that’s why a lot of these Blue Dogs feel so emboldened because Rahm told them to let loose because Rahm has the president’s ear. Rahm hates progressives (he did call them f—in’ stupid), and is probably behind the leaks that say the public option isn’t important.
Geithner and Summers need to go, too. They are Rubin redux, and that attitude is not going to spur the economy.
August 20th, 2009 at 2:01 pmUCSBKitty says:
Republicans would then demand a superfilibuster proof of 100 + 1 votes.
I fixed it for you. :-)
August 20th, 2009 at 2:01 pmIt appears that the Republicans have not been able to adjust to the fact that the White House and Congress are not a wholly owned subsidiary of the Republican party.
August 20th, 2009 at 2:05 pmMake this a simple argument. The Senate rule sets the number at 60 and there is no authority on the part of the Republicans to unilaterally change it. They can just go screw off.
Keep it simple.
August 20th, 2009 at 2:14 pmI would ask anyone considering abandoning the Democrats on this issue to consider the fact that Repubs dominated both Houses of Congress and at one time had a president with approval ratings in the 70’s and they never once even mentioned health care reform. That’s your alternative, folks. The Green Party, as much as I like its stands on the issues, does not have the power, the infrastructure or the national support needed to get ANYTHING done at this time. If a Democrat like Obama has trouble getting consensus in Congress, how do you think a Green Party person would fare?
You can ball up your fists, stamp your feet and cry big wet tears all you want, but please face the fact that the Democratic party is the ONLY way we are going to get ANYTHING on this issue right now.
August 20th, 2009 at 2:15 pmThat’s all I’m saying JMOHR, they are just farting in the wind.
August 20th, 2009 at 2:16 pmJMOHR: “Keep it simple.”
Amen. That would be nice. Just expand Medicare to cover everyone! Unfortunately, as you well know, corporate money flowing into congress makes this entire thing very complicated.
August 20th, 2009 at 2:18 pmshoeless says:
Hatch also put forward a compromise which would only require 40 votes, and only Republicans would be allowed to vote.
GTFOOH
What he’s a gem.
Please supply a link. Thanks
August 20th, 2009 at 2:19 pm“Sen. Orrin Hatch (R-UT) claimed that health care reform should not happen because it doesn’t enjoy “bipartisan” support,”
then stop being an obstructionist whore, hatch and pony up some solutions.
August 20th, 2009 at 2:22 pmHatch can go take crap on his own front door step if he chooses, but his days of doing that on OUR front door step IS DONE.
He doesn’t get to call the shots anymore and will be lucky if anyone even talks to him about the decision…He is a hack and has been for a long time..The sooner they build a new church in Salt Lake they can put Hatch UNDER the better.
August 20th, 2009 at 2:42 pmUCSBKitty says:
Republicans would then demand a superfilibuster proof of 100 + 1 votes.
I fixed it for you. :-)
Oh that’s right, then they would go even further and ask for a sign for God as well…
August 20th, 2009 at 3:18 pmOrrin Hatch is attempting to make it so that unless 80 senators vote to support something, it will be seen as not legitimate somehow. Look for wingnut talking heads to pick up this meme in an effort to make it stick.
Of course, this doesn’t apply to anything the Republicans don’t like. In both 2000 and 2004, their candidate went to the White House with only a plurality of votes (and in 2000, the other candidate actually got more). Yet, this was legitimate enough for them.
Senator Hatch is blatantly proposing a double-standard, and it’s obvious to any thinking person. Does anybody have any data on how many thinking people there are in the country these days?
August 20th, 2009 at 3:20 pm#
misscoleopteramolly says:
Senator Hatch is blatantly proposing a double-standard, and it’s obvious to any thinking person. Does anybody have any data on how many thinking people there are in the country these days?
The intelligence quotient is inversely proportionate to the amount of time people watch Fox News. Based on the polls about the health care issue it appears the south is winning the stupid people per capita award.
August 20th, 2009 at 3:38 pmAll this makes me think is that the Repubs think that the Dems will get 60 votes. This entire scheme reeks of conservatives shitting their pants.
August 20th, 2009 at 4:21 pmWhen they lose another ten seats they’ll want an 80 – 90 vote super majority.
Losing can be so inconvenient.
August 20th, 2009 at 4:35 pm60 votes has long been the standard for a super majority. That must make this new 75-80 vote standard being proposed a super super majority. Can a new super super super majority of 99 votes be far off?
August 20th, 2009 at 5:53 pmI’ve often wondered if the GOP has professional headhunters that specialize in finding morons to represent the “average American”. I think they must have a PR guy who specializes in moving the goal posts, too.
August 20th, 2009 at 5:54 pmThe credo of the Republican party – not getting what you want? Change the rules of the game.
August 20th, 2009 at 5:57 pmWho let Utah into the Union?
August 20th, 2009 at 6:30 pmIf I’m not mistaken….wasn’t it the republicans who said when they were in power that if Joe Lieberman was a sponsor or tipped the balance for their bill to pass that this was considered ‘bipartisan’ enough for them? Spit.
August 20th, 2009 at 7:52 pmOnce again I am amazed at how the left is so hypocritcal. Ya’ll constantly go on about how those of the right are intolerant or hateful. They have nothing on the left, liberals spew hate like a firehose. I read your bile to remind me why I left the Democratic party and became a free American with no party affliation. All politicians are liars and are only interested in having power over those people too sheep-like to question their anti-American rhetoric !!!
August 20th, 2009 at 7:57 pmgivemelibertyordeath says:
Once again I am amazed at how the left is so hypocritcal. Ya’ll constantly go on about how those of the right are intolerant or hateful.
Being an ignorant traitor is a lifestyle choice. It’s not you I hate, it’s the ignorance and treason. I beseech you to abandon them and step into the light of reason.
Until then, you’re going to be caught in the crossfire of my true and abiding hatred for those who are willfully doing everything they can to destroy the United States of America.
Also, quit posting your little rant in EVERY thread, thx.
August 20th, 2009 at 8:14 pmNext up, GOP Senators beg for super-duper filibuster…
August 20th, 2009 at 8:16 pm.
Dear Senator Hatch,
If you want bipartisan…
… Either YOU compromise or produce ideas YOURSELF.
Neither, of which, you show a capability of doing.
DOING NOTHING, BRINGING NOTHING TO THE DEBATE MEANS YOU ARE WORTH NOTHING IN THAT DEBATE!
Be THAT bipartisanship you seek from the Congress you sit as a member of.
… OR ACCEPT THE CONSEQUENCES OF DOING NOTHING!
.
August 21st, 2009 at 1:04 amElBruce,
August 21st, 2009 at 1:06 amI’m waiting for the Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious filibuster…
… 102 votes!
.
Dear givemelibertyordeath,
G(no)P withdrawals too much?
.
August 21st, 2009 at 1:08 amLook, it’s bad enough that most republicans don’t care for real health care reform. But Millhiser doesn’t need to LIE about what Hatch, Enzi and Grassley said. All those 3 stated was real simple and Millhiser had it right in the first paragraph: a truly bipartisan health care reform bill in Congress should have 75-80 votes. It’s laughable and hypocritical of them, but that’s all they said.
Where Millhiser lies is when he writes that these 3 want a new standard, a “requirement” that a “superfilibuster” majority of senators to pass health care reform. Rachael Maddow, normally a very smart person, built a whole segment and basketball analogy around this total misrepresentation by ThinkProgress.
Does Ian (and Maddow) really think any of these 3 will filibuster a bill that has over 60 but less than 75 votes? Come on, people. Have some common sense!
August 21st, 2009 at 2:40 amI guess republicans don’t have to work for their salary.
Will they ever get serious and participate in Americas Gov’t that they collect campaign money to run for election of said Gov’t they espouse they hate?
When republicans say Gov’t doesn’t do anything right, they mean they themselves don’t do right by Gov’t.
August 21st, 2009 at 3:06 amTo finish my last thought, the only suggestion (but again, not a “requirement”) I like from what I heard/read today was Enzi’s idea of splitting the negotiated Senate bill into parts (according to that WaPost article highlighted here at TP under Grassley’s “80 votes” comment). Even Jim Clyburn (D-SC) is leaning towards this idea – he referenced “piecemeal” civil rights legislation as a successful analogy (in that same WaPost article) We’ll see how the process goes but this sounds like a good idea, depending on how the bill is split up, of course.
Speaking of Enzi, it’s another Millhiser lie that needs to be called out. He did not “demand” the Senate bill have 75-80 votes. Agree or disagree, this is what he said to the WSJ: “Sen. Mike Enzi (R., Wyo.) said the Democrats would be making a mistake by forging ahead on their own. ‘We need to get a bill that 75 or 80 senators can support,’ he said. ‘If the Democrats choose to shut out Republicans and moderate Democrats, their plan will fail because the American people will have no confidence in it.’”
So basically, Enzi’s saying dems can pass a partisan bill all they want but that it won’t work and that Americans would be against it – he thinks a watered down, bi-partisan bill is needed, would work and get 75+ votes. Of course, he’s wrong about that – a majority of Americans are FOR Obama and the dems’ plan once they learn the truth about it.
August 21st, 2009 at 3:15 amLately, everytime I hear about something like this, instead of being disgusted at the Republican’s tactics I find myself cringing. I find myself cringing at the thought of how the Democrats are going to give in and be duped by this latest travesty. As much as I dislike the fringe right wing, you have to admire their chutzpah. The Left needs some of that – the right can sense this weakness. Sometimes you just need to fight back especially when you have so much support to start of with. I am an avid Obama supporter, and the other day I heard a Right wing acquaintance refer to Obama as being indecisive and barely showing up to vote present – and I cringed….
August 22nd, 2009 at 6:18 pm