While advocating bipartisanship, Baucus admits GOP leadership is trying to ‘kill’ health care reform.
While advocating bipartisanship, Baucus admits GOP leadership is trying to ‘kill’ health care reform.
In a recent interview with the editorial board of a local Montana paper, Senate Finance Committee chair Max Baucus (D-MT) continued his advocacy for a “bipartisan” approach to health care, arguing that “it’s better for the country.” Yet, he also admitted that the GOP leadership is putting “intense political pressure” on his committee colleagues Olympia Snowe, Chuck Grassley, and Mike Enzi to defeat any health care bill:
“The Republican leadership in the Senate and in the House is doing its utmost to kill this bill,” he said. “They are putting intense political pressure on Chuck Grassley, Olympia Snow and Mike Enzi, to bow out, because they want to kill it. So I’ve got a challenge ahead of me to work out all this on policy as we go through these meetings.
“The other thing is the politics of it: ‘People, this is the right thing to do for America. I know you’re under intense political pressure, but do the right thing. I know it’s easy for me to say right now, because I’m getting beat up by both sides, but not nearly as much as you are by the Republican hierarchy.’ ”
Yesterday, in an interview with FOX News, Sen. Jon Kyl (R-AZ) underscored the GOP’s reticence to support health reform. He told Neil Cavuto that he doesn’t think “a single Republican” will vote for health care legislation that looks like the bills in the House or Senate HELP committee. And yet, Grassley and Ezni state that they want 75-80 votes for the bill in order to support it.
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Might as well “compromise” with Al-Qaeda for all the good that’s going to do us.
August 21st, 2009 at 5:03 pmYes, bipartisanship is quite lovely in an uncorrupted universe.
August 21st, 2009 at 5:07 pm…arguing that “it’s better for the country.”
_____________________________________________________________
Of COURSE bipartisanship is better for the country. Everybody having a car that emits no pollution is better for the country, too. But since neither one of these is possible, we have to work with what we have.
It’s a pity Republicans have the single objective of destroying the Obama presidency, at the cost of doing what’s best for the country. But since they’ve made it very clear this is their goal, we have to abandon all hope of getting them on board with anything.
August 21st, 2009 at 5:07 pmThere is a lot of agony about how Obama is blowing it over the health care debate. I think the Republicans are blowing it. Their extreme negativity is going to backfire, they think that their success will be tied to Obama’s failure. I find it is rarely a good bet to count on some elses failure, especially with someone as smart of Obama.
August 21st, 2009 at 5:08 pmSo,
Why do members of Congress think Americans DO NOT deserve affordable health care?
.
August 21st, 2009 at 5:09 pmWhile advocating bipartisanship, Baucus admits GOP leadership is trying to ‘kill’ health care reform.
– - Gosh, really? This was the GOP game plan 15 years ago too. Obama was naive for thinking he could play the bipartisan card. Democrats should go to the wall on this.
August 21st, 2009 at 5:09 pm.
Q U E S T I O N:
Who else thinks watchthepuppypee lives in a different yard?
.
August 21st, 2009 at 5:11 pmTo watchdog, who believes that George W. Bush was literally the second coming of Jesus Christ, the idea that Democrats could disapprove of Obama’s actions seems bizarre and frightening.
August 21st, 2009 at 5:12 pmWhy do members of Congress think Americans DO NOT deserve affordable health care?
A very simple error in your thought processes. You used the word think as applied to MOCs. It is obvious they don’t think. They tend to do what they are told or what puts money in their pocket. Less wear and tear on their brains that way.
August 21st, 2009 at 5:14 pm#1 ElBruce,
I’d say funding them is enough, NO?
http://thinkprogress.org/2007/02/25/hersh-qaeda/
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5ilEy8arcT-f6VbDabyOSIaauE4lQD99NHIHG0
August 21st, 2009 at 5:14 pmDoesn’t it seem like repubs think ‘bipartisan’ means ‘our way’, the opposite of what it really means?
August 21st, 2009 at 5:14 pm#10 Hoodathunk,
August 21st, 2009 at 5:16 pmThey were elected to THINK.
If they are thinking with their wallets, just who are they Representing?
Another great song parody by our own Wayne A. Schneider:
Too Many Sheeple
August 21st, 2009 at 5:19 pmIs Obama bending over backwards, to achieve bipartisanship..?
so he can SAY he bent over backwards to achieve bipartisanship.?..but alas it was not to be.
Does he really think he’s going to get Republican votes on this thing?? I can’t believe Obama’s that naive.
August 21st, 2009 at 5:21 pmwatchdog barking, do he bite….
August 21st, 2009 at 5:24 pmIf they are thinking with their wallets, just who are they Representing?
This is a tough one. Their own self interests? The government that has been bought by the big corporations, for the big corporations and by the big corporations?
Anything and anyone other than the people?
August 21st, 2009 at 5:27 pmdb,
August 21st, 2009 at 5:27 pmOnly in his world…
… Which ever world it is he lives in.
Hoodathunk,
August 21st, 2009 at 5:29 pmWell,
CEO’s are people raising families, too.
.
The Ed Show – Rep. Dennis Kucinich (D-OH) – Single Payer, 676…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MWDwvjETyo
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August 21st, 2009 at 5:31 pmElBruce says:
Might as well “compromise” with Al-Qaeda for all the good that’s going to do us.
BE careful, lest our dense trolls take this as evidence we’re in cahoots with Al Qaeda…
August 21st, 2009 at 5:31 pm.
Senator Berie Sanders – Health Care Corporate Fraud.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_2gFsEHRRU
.
August 21st, 2009 at 5:32 pmTo quote my favorite patriotic American (myself!):
F**k the Republicans. They’re all a bunch of g*dd*mned f**king liars. Them, and FOX News, and every other media whore known.
August 21st, 2009 at 5:34 pmMax, I hear you. It is really hard raising a family these days on only a million dollars a month.
August 21st, 2009 at 5:34 pmThe way to get movement by the Republicans is to have an alternative bill ready to vote out of committee with the public option. Then Baucus can talk and set the final deadline. If the Dems in the committee are ready vote on the alternative bill then Republicans have to negotiate in good faith or end discussions.
August 21st, 2009 at 5:34 pmrepugs are callous, and without compassion.
Now they are taking the role of their “God.” Choosing who will live and who will die.
August 21st, 2009 at 5:34 pmWiz says:
There is a lot of agony about how Obama is blowing it over the health care debate. I think the Republicans are blowing it. Their extreme negativity is going to backfire, they think that their success will be tied to Obama’s failure.
While it’s possible that all of their apparent gains might be short-term and backfire, and I would love to see it, that’s pretty much wishful thinking.
.
watchdog says:
Charming Liar…
Yep, it’s a fact: progressives wish that Obama would do more to stand up for progressive ideals, and we’re justifiably angry with him when he isn’t progressive enough for us.
That kind of kills your whole theme about how we all worship Obama and treat him as infallible, doesn’t it?
Don’t you kind of wish you right-wingers had been holding Dubya’s feet to the fire for the last eight years over, say, federal overspending and government waste for example? Wouldn’t you “liberty lovers” be better off now if you hadn’t enabled him in increasing the power of the Presidency to obscene degrees? I know I’d be happier without warrantless wiretapping, Gitmo and torture, but I wasn’t one of the people who cheered it on when it showed up. It’s little late now for you lot to cry and wail about overbearing Executive authority, innit?
We’re going to do what we can to make sure our President stands up to his stated ideals during his term, instead of waiting until he’s out and then projecting our insecurities on the next guy. This is what a responsible political movement looks like. Go cry in your pillow because you don’t measure up.
August 21st, 2009 at 5:34 pmYou see, children, they lie…not just to US, but to THEMSELVES…
And that’s the worst sin of them all.
August 21st, 2009 at 5:36 pmHey, Hoodathunk:
“Anything and anyone other than the people?”
What the corporatists keep forgetting is simple–there’s a lot of money to be made in giving The People exactly what they want.
There’s much EASIER money to be made in conning, lying and cheating them, via the government, or via lax oversight, enforcement, etc. That business model has a lifespan of about seven years–which is why it all came tumbling down on George W. Bush’s head when it did…
August 21st, 2009 at 5:37 pmMax Baucus (D-MT) continued his advocacy for a “bipartisan” approach to health care, arguing that “it’s better for the country.” “The Republican leadership in the Senate and in the House is doing its utmost to kill this bill,” he said.
Hello, McFly,
August 21st, 2009 at 5:39 pmHello?…
Hoodathunk,
August 21st, 2009 at 5:39 pmI’m just looking forward to when MY bonus of a 1000% increase kicks in.
Think you should stop worrying about your 3 friends being beat up on there side>>> as i am willing to bet they are not take as nearly as much heat as you. And i really don’t think grassley will ask you for help in his election bid.
August 21st, 2009 at 5:40 pmHe and they will drop you like a fat hot potatoe and laugh at you as they do it, unless you are really part of there plan.
Max Baucus needs a tattoo on his forehead -
SNACILBUPER EHT KCUF
So when he looks in the mirror he can remember what to do.
August 21st, 2009 at 5:40 pmwatchdog says:
Charming Liar’: Progressives Turn on Obama as Air America Exposes ‘Fascist’ Drug Deal
“It makes me puke that we have just been ‘Cheneyed’ by a guy named Barack Obama.”
iT’S NOT that we turned on him, we knew that he was no liberal by any means. See unlike your side who swallows everything Bush said about the “sanctity of life” and “erring on the side of life” we understood that the choice was Obama or McCain/Palin…Our choice was clear.
August 21st, 2009 at 5:40 pmDaddy-O says:
August 21st, 2009 at 5:41 pmActually it is even simpler. Where do they think all the money they are playing with came from in the first place?
.
Dear watchthepuppypee,
When the chain gets tight and tugs on your choke collar, is it because the tree wandered?
.
August 21st, 2009 at 5:50 pmWatchdog gives a breitbart.tv link……..not too much credibility huh…..why not just give a freeper link
August 21st, 2009 at 5:55 pmHoodathunk,
August 21st, 2009 at 5:59 pmIt looks as if a certain Mayor thinks CEO’s are NOT rich.
Almost as if they don’t make enough.
Bloomberg: Drug CEOs don’t make much money
http://rawstory.com/08/news/2009/08/21/bloomberg-drug-ceos-dont-make-much-money/
Figures!
There is a subtle shift going on. Slowly the Dems seem to be adopting the position that it’s useless to negotiate with the GOoPers. And, while I’d like to see a bit more of Barney Frank’s attitude, they are playing a dangerous game.
Leaving specifics out of it, they are charged with changing the direction of this country and it’s not easy to overcome the momentum of the Reichwhiners by throwing the car into reverse, so to speak.
Plus, with the House in recess and no reconciled Bill in place, all that’s really going on currently is posturing. And, despite some gaffes by people trying to talk too much about too little, I guess I won’t panic until someone actually starts writing concessions into the legislation.
August 21st, 2009 at 6:01 pmafter eight years of ramming legislation right up the democrats asses the repukelicans all of a sudden want to play nicey-nice now that they’re in the minority. fcuk them.
August 21st, 2009 at 6:02 pmBloomberg: Drug CEOs don’t make much money
Of course not. Making money is illegal unless you are the US treasury Dept. Being given lots of money for denying health care claims or making woody drugs is another thing.
August 21st, 2009 at 6:16 pmW.T.F.
August 21st, 2009 at 6:25 pmSo these guys want a super-majority rule?
People do know that means, in effect, minority rule, which is not, as I recall, a democracy.
August 21st, 2009 at 6:38 pmwhat eleanor says:
Time to Get in the Ring
Though Obama’s natural instinct is toward compromise, now’s the time to fight on health-care reform.
[...]
The last months have punctured the idea that Obama can forge working relationships with the enemy. What the people who voted for him are looking for now are passion and a willingness to fight for what he believes in, not a carefully calibrated compromise that is better for insurance providers than it is for patients and consumers.
[...]
Forget the niceties, it’s time to fight.
http://www.newsweek.com/id/213173
August 21st, 2009 at 6:38 pmAugust 21st, 2009 at 6:41 pm
This comment has been voted down. Click to read.
The GOP leadership is betraying the interests of the people for pure political gain coupled with their greed for big-time “squeeze” from the insurance gougers. They are traitors!
August 21st, 2009 at 6:56 pmSlappyBastinado says: Democrats do not REALLY want universal coverage, public option or health care reform of any kind
Sorry to burst your bubble but there are people who would like to believe that making a big change to benefit society just might want to have the Party of No along on some level. They don’t want to ‘ram’ things through. They want people to do and think not just say no.
I know, this sort of idea is totally alien to you.
August 21st, 2009 at 6:57 pm.
Medical Fraud’s Staggering Price Tag
Bernie Sanders
August 18, 2009
http://sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/news/?id=9f65ed6a-ccd1-4f9b-ac41-4d48c7156a8c
.
August 21st, 2009 at 7:00 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Hoodathunk,
August 21st, 2009 at 7:02 pmSome bastards suffer from G(no)P withdrawal.
.
Dear blclem,
Just like how the election of 2008 proved that your Conservative Party is NOT the Party to lead…
… NO?
.
August 21st, 2009 at 7:05 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Max Baucus needs to pay attention as to what’s happening in his own back yard:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/21/montantans-not-backing-ba_n_265477.html
Looks like the people in Montana are not too happy about his handling of the health care issue.
August 21st, 2009 at 7:09 pmHoodathunk says:
Sorry to burst your bubble but there are people who would like to believe that making a big change to benefit society just might want to have the Party of No along on some level. They don’t want to ‘ram’ things through. They want people to do and think not just say no.
Except that the Party of No has made it very clear that they will not support ANY meaningful reform. It would be nice to have a bipartisan bill but it’s not going to happen. So, the only thing the Democrats can do is to go it alone of back off and let the people decide in the 2010 election.
August 21st, 2009 at 7:13 pmRead the post again. You have the votes. Lead.
August 21st, 2009 at 7:14 pmRight on…………..
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/8/21/770592/-Baucus-does-not-represent-his-state,-say-Montanans
This opens the door for a Repug victory next time he’s up but who cares………….way to late then…….He’s already killed health care reform………THANKS MAX!
August 21st, 2009 at 7:17 pmHoodathunk says:
…there are people who would like to believe that making a big change to benefit society just might want to have the Party of No along on some level.
By definition, it’s impossible to get the “Party of No” to come along. If it were possible, they’d be the “Party of Well, Maybe.” They are not. They are the Party of No.
It’s not the D’s fault that the R’s are incalcitrant. You simply can’t compromise with someone who won’t compromise with you. That’s not compromise, it’s capitulation.
August 21st, 2009 at 7:22 pmThe Rethuglican Party is like a death panel. They don’t give two shytes about whether we live or die as long as the Obama Administration fails. IMO – Obama is pressing Baucus for a bipartisan bill because he’s trying to expose the motives of Rethugs and blue dogs alike.
August 21st, 2009 at 7:23 pm“kill this bill” =/= “kill health care reform”
August 21st, 2009 at 7:23 pmGreg Pallast rules. Remember, he’s the one that exposed a lot of Karl Rove’s shenanigans.
August 21st, 2009 at 7:26 pmI’m glad you figure it out, you dumb ass!
Now I wonder how they’re going to counteract the majority bipartisan vote the repugnants are touting.
This seems like a bad rerun of the Outer Limits, it would be funny if I was watching it in the Sci Fi channel.
WAKE UP! You morons, they have absolutely no interest in passing a bill or any bill, block everything that comes out of the WH, are just going to sit there an take it…?
August 21st, 2009 at 7:27 pmThat’s not compromise, it’s capitulation.
Sort of my point, ElBruce. The Dems are asking, even begging the Reps, to participate. The idea that anything is being rammed through is a joke. But it is time to say goodbye. America needs help and the Republicans are locked into NO!
No is not leadership.
August 21st, 2009 at 7:29 pmhttp://www.gregpalast.com/obama-on-drugs-98-cheney/
August 21st, 2009 at 7:34 pm
You must remember, Obama is a smart man. Someone on TP said it a couple of times,Obama is just feeding the repugs as much rope as they need to hang themselves.Obama is going to keep letting the repugs stumble all over themselves and when the time is right he will get healthcare with a public option signed into law. Before Obamas first term is up the healthcare issue wont even be a topic of discussion anymore.
August 21st, 2009 at 7:35 pmHealthcare reform will be such a success that repugs will avoid it like its the black plague.
This comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Im trying to figure how drug deals, which have been around since rhe British empire, are ‘fascist’
Then again our strumpet knee benders use ‘fascism’ to describe anything they disagree with.
August 21st, 2009 at 7:35 pmYeah, Max old boy, you may as well try to negotiate with the guy who’s mugging you or the snarling dog threatening to bite you or the tornado that’s going to blow your friggin’ house down.
Just once… I wish that the Dems would simply bulldoze the GOPukes right into the ground.
August 21st, 2009 at 7:37 pmI dont call disinformation leading. We are a democracy and we dont elect leaders, we elect representatives. We are a group of equals [one man one vote] that make choices on which direction the nation will go.
If you want to be a lemming, go ahead, leap.
August 21st, 2009 at 7:43 pmThe political reality is that Baucus and the Blue Dogs are caught in a dilemma. They want cover for their votes so that is why bipartisan talks are still going. Obama is letting those play out but he has indicated that reconciliation is becoming a reality. None of the Blue Dogs want to be put in a box having to choose between their constituents or their campaign contributions from the health care industry. If the vote against the bill then the unions and other groups are going to come after them. If they vote for the bill, they may have difficulty get campaign contributions. It is a no win situation unless you can stop the public option and get some Republicans to vote for it. I don’t see how the Blue Dogs are going to get around this without infuriating a lot of their voters.
August 21st, 2009 at 7:48 pmThis link was in the other thread.
http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2009/08/19/the-baucus-caucus-phrma-insurance-hospitals-and-rahm/
This is very illustrative of the fact that corporations run our government.
Mussolini had a word for that.
August 21st, 2009 at 7:49 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
pags2 says:
I don’t see how the Blue Dogs are going to get around this without infuriating a lot of their voters.
August 21st, 2009 at 7:48 pm
They aren’t, which is exactly what I told my Blue Dog Rep. This is his first (and possibly last) term, and I reminded him in no uncertain terms that he works for the voters, not the big money contributors.
He can be gone as quickly as his predecessor.
August 21st, 2009 at 7:52 pmOne must be amused at the poor, stupid, trolls. Their total lack of a grasp on reality really shows when they claim a bill is “dead” because Lush Rimjob says so.
Here’s a little exercise for anyone interested. Try to find a Democratic lawmaker who has announced a firm change in position since the beginning of the recess. All that they are doing is throwing out ideas, informally, before they go back to work.
To the simple-minded trolls, this apparent indecision is seen as a sign of weakness or failure. In fact, that’s just how rational adults conduct business. They weigh options and negotiate their pet ideas and even champion agendas.
Alas. We, as a country, have forgotten how negotiations on major legislation are supposed to work. Speaking only for myself, my own frustration and impatience makes it easy to question the motives of all these politicians who have nothing to really do but babble until the House is back in session. But, on good days, I keep looking back to the fact that Democratic lawmakers are still selling ideas and, judging by most polls, aren’t doing too bad of a job despite the sheer disruption of the lunatic-right.
As much as I wish the Reichwhiners would just STFU, they really don’t appear to be swaying many and the Senate Finance Committee can snipe and posture and blather all they want. In the grand scheme of things they don’t really have much say.
August 21st, 2009 at 8:00 pmThis is very illustrative of the fact that corporations run our government. Mussolini had a word for that.
Im pretty sure it wasnt called crony capitalism =)
August 21st, 2009 at 8:00 pmIt’s time for the blue dogs to do what is right for the people. Alot these jacka$$es claim to be christians who believe in God! This is a moral issue and a Civil Rights issue! People are getting discriminated against because of their health and financial status – IT’S JUST WRONG!
August 21st, 2009 at 8:02 pmIf they don’t do the right thing then they should face the wrath of the masses! I have no sympathy for them.
Obama and the Democrats are betraying us. There’s nothing like getting stabbed in the back by the people you worked so hard to elect.
I wonder if this would have turned out better had Hillary been elected instead. Hillary is a much better fighter than Obama.
Obama is a wimp and he’s beginning to look like a loser.
August 21st, 2009 at 8:02 pmLimbaugh never quite understood achoolhouse rock.
August 21st, 2009 at 8:03 pmI don’t think the blue dogs can stop things in the house. The Public Option is, I believe, included in ALL the reform bills coming out of the house.
The Senate is a different matter, because of the threat of a filibuster. Just ONE Democrat could block Reform.
I don’t have a problem with Democrats Voting Against Reform…I Do have a problem with Democrats NOT Allowing a Vote.
The Dems need to stick together to Vote for Cloture…or face the consequences.
If we don’t get a GOOD Bill this time around…with the Good hand we’re Holding….then the Voters will Blame the Democrats, and we will have Squandered a Golden Opportunity.
August 21st, 2009 at 8:04 pmSlappyBastinado says:
Hey there, Slappa-dip-dappity-doo!!!!
Blog while ya can pal…
-we’ll have you in the camps before long!!!!
(got anything you want to sell on the cheap, before you get taken away – I’m buyin’!)
August 21st, 2009 at 8:08 pmI wondered which thread today would draw in the “Ernest T. Bass Wing” of the “Party of NO”.
Now I know.
August 21st, 2009 at 8:10 pmWHY is the GOP trying to kill Health Care reform? Can any of them answer that question in an intelligent, fact-based way? I thought not. It’s the same as when Bush wanted terror alerts before elections– they want to scare the ignorant public into believing their lies, distortions, & partisan politics. The GOP are liars & terrorists. They have no facts. Just lies & fear. Jesus would despise the GOP, except that Jesus was a liberal/progressive, & was above GOP partisan hatred & false witness.
August 21st, 2009 at 8:12 pmI wish Obama would stop bowing to the bipartisan god he loves so much. Be a damn leader! Explain how this will benefit the whole of the nation and get it done! Why Obama keeps sucking up to the knuckle dragging republicans is beyond me.
August 21st, 2009 at 8:14 pmThey arent trying to kill reform, they are trying to kill competition. They could care less that the government tools they boughtr spend money on swine flu shots, or wars, or stimulus plans, they didnt oppose them AFAIK they are trying to kill Jack to keep him from climbing the beanstalk and taking their golden goose.
August 21st, 2009 at 8:15 pmdasm says:
WHY is the GOP trying to kill Health Care reform?
Because if We get a Bill…and it works to make Health Care Available and More Affordable to ALL…and becomes popular like Medicare is ….
Then the GOP notion that the “Govt. can’t do anything right” will be proven false. The GOP has run on this paradigm since Reagan, and it must really Scare them to lose this pillar of their ideology.
August 21st, 2009 at 8:21 pmI haven’t seen anyone comment on the most ridiculous part of this whole charade “Grassley and Ezni state that they want 75-80 votes for the bill in order to support it.”
WTF? 80 votes would be HALF the Republicans in the Senate.
Why are they negotiating with these guys if A) they can’t deliver any other votes, and B) they’re not willing to step up and vote “yes” on the positions they’ve negotiated?
Here’s what I think Baucus needs to do. He needs to send two bills out of committee: the “negotiated” bill and a fallback bill that would take its place if ANY of the three ReThug “negotiators” fails to vote FOR it on the floor.
August 21st, 2009 at 8:23 pmThe next logical question for Sen. Baucus to ask and answer is that since he sees no possibility of flipping a single Republican vote is why not wrap it up and put together a bill and have the full Finance Committee vote it out of committee. Until we have a bill with details it is hard to say where a Senator will stand. If this means 2 bills; one with popular measures sure to get 60 votes and the other that only needs 50 votes.
The bill that gets 60 votes is permanent and the bill that gets 50 votes expires in 5 years. By then we should have a good idea of how well it is working and keep those parts making the most sense and tweak the rest.
August 21st, 2009 at 8:24 pmI haven’t seen anyone comment on the most ridiculous part of this whole charade “Grassley and Ezni state that they want 75-80 votes for the bill in order to support it.”
I look at it more like, ‘…if 80 of you go against private insurance lobberer wishes I will follow suit, otherwise the minority with money wins again’
August 21st, 2009 at 8:32 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Mr. Evil says, “Why Obama keeps sucking up to the knuckle dragging republicans is beyond me”.
Obama is backtracking on every campaign promise he made. Can anyone name one thing that Obama has kept his word on so far?
Obama won a landslide election but he’s acting as though he lost. What he needs is a good swift kick in the hinder to get him back on the right track.
August 21st, 2009 at 8:42 pmright kws…
like letting the black vote,
or women,
or outlawing alcohol,
and then deciding not to,
and all the things that are covered under the very wise provision that….
wait for it, DUMMY
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
THE CONTSTITUTION CAN BE AMENDED.
you should really give up, homie – you’re no good at this at all.
August 21st, 2009 at 8:42 pmObama is backtracking on every campaign promise he made. Can anyone name one thing that Obama has kept his word on so far?
Yep.
I can name 35 so far…
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/rulings/promise-kept/
August 21st, 2009 at 8:50 pmIdiot Righties….
You’re the gang that’s always itching for an Amendment (like the Amendments that have changed the “original intent” of the Constitution to be passed…but usually for something mean and/or stupid like
denying civil rights to the gay,
or allowing the idiot Ah-nuld Schwanz-n-egger to run for President.
Since you’re always honking around about adding them on, you ought to at least acknowledge they exist, and that there have been Amendments made in the past, and that they have changed the “original” document, and that that is a LEGAL and CONSTITUTIONAL thing to do,
but somehow you’re even too SLOW to understand that.
(or too determined in your absolute dishonesty, which is my preferred explanation)
August 21st, 2009 at 8:53 pmThe 10th Ammendment is very clear.
According to polls, not to mention the last two elections, “the people” are very clear in wanting health care reform.
The poor trolls keep forgetting that “We the People” are supreme in this country.
August 21st, 2009 at 8:54 pmThe problem is that Obama is trying to play the political game the right way… and he is assuming that the Reps are at his leve; and that they will do the right thing rather than try to squash anything he puts in front of them just because he is (insert adjective here… liberal/dem/progressive/socialist/black… etc). He is trying to be reasonable, and assumes/hopes that they do the same. He is trying to ‘lead’ the reps and dems to an understanding. This, obviously, is not going to work. And it’s very unfortunate that the reps cannot see this.
August 21st, 2009 at 8:55 pmsscncturn64 says:
You must remember, Obama is a smart man. Someone on TP said it a couple of times,Obama is just feeding the repugs as much rope as they need to hang themselves.
I hope this is the case. I remember multiple times during the campaign when I and many other progressives were freaking out worrying that McCain was pulling ahead and winning too many news cycles while Obama waited quietly to time his response. But every time, Obama’s paced timing proved to be more effective. I’d like that to be the case this time, but it seems like he’s been on the ropes for almost a month now, and I’m seeing a lot of missteps that we didn’t see during his campaign (”whether this bill includes a public option or not…” etc).
Maybe. Maybe they’re just going to go ahead with budget reconciliation, and all of this “we’re willing to give up the farm for bipartisan votes” noise is just a big game of rope-a-dope. But I ain’t holding my breath.
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pete says:
Alas. We, as a country, have forgotten how negotiations on major legislation are supposed to work.
Sure. But real leaders – not just legislators, but leaders – also do an end-run around the legislative sausage-making process by clearly enunciating their desired position to the electorate directly. It’s that kind of leadership that’s lacking in this whole thing. There’s no need for the White House to be coy about what they want. Obama isn’t a Senator any more. They should be drumming up support from the populace for real reform, instead of hemming and hawing about what they might or might not stand for.
August 21st, 2009 at 8:56 pmkwsventures says:
As opposed to YOU who has no understanding whatsoever of the Constitution and just believes what Rush TOLD you to think about it. While the constitution does not give a RIGHT to healthcare neither can any sane interpretation OF the constitution say it is unconstitutional for the federal government to provide healthcare. Only someone stupider than DIRT could think it would be.
August 21st, 2009 at 8:57 pmI think one of the problems we have in this country right now is the fact that the federal government is trying to do too much. We need to leave things to the states and the localities. … And unfortunately, we are distracting ourselves from looking after the defense of this nation
Oh puhleeze. We have spent the last 7 years ‘protecting our nation’. From what? The possible terrorist attack that may kill some citizens because a building got blown up. A building got blown up in Oklahoma City.
And please tell me why, with the entire military might of the most powerful nation in the world fighting the international terrorist problem we are no closer to making the US safe?
August 21st, 2009 at 8:58 pmbrave defense of yourself there, kws…
really bold.
have a nice Democrat-controlled weekend, buddy.
August 21st, 2009 at 9:02 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
nice try, marwick.
you guys are really good with the airballs.
you have a nice, Democrat-controlled weekend too, mm’k?
August 21st, 2009 at 9:05 pmkwsventures says:
Finally someone that understands the U.S. Constitution and doesn’t interpret things that are not there.
There it is! Third time I’ve posted it today.
You really should stop making outrageous claims about the contents of a document that you’ve never read.
August 21st, 2009 at 9:07 pmmarwick says:
Fewer than half of Americans, 45 percent, support reform as it’s been explained to date,
Hell, giving the piss-poor job they’re doing of explaining it, I wouldn’t want it either. So you can put me in that 45%. But I do want the public option.
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marwick says:
Why are the Democrats trying to sneak something in that people don’t want?
The public wants health care reform. Know how I know? Because Obama campaigned on it. In fact, the primary vs. Hillary was mostly arguing over who was going to give us more health care reform. Then we held a really big poll in November, and Obama’s health care reform won out over McCain’s “let’s privatize it even more!” plan.
A majority of voters voted for Obama. He clearly explained exactly what he intended to do. What he is doing is (to be honest) only a fraction of what he promised. Therefore, the people do want it.
August 21st, 2009 at 9:10 pmmarwick says:
No they arent. You are a liar and a fool. Americans overwhelmingly support healthcare reform AND they overwhelmingly want a public option. They may not like what they have heard about this bill but it takes blatant stupidity and a real comittment to ideological blindness to say they dont support healthcare reform
August 21st, 2009 at 9:11 pmkwsventures says:
Finally someone that understands the U.S. Constitution and doesn’t interpret things that are not there.
_________
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
Hmmmm… doesn’t interpret things that aren’t there? Foxx did actually, ya know, READ the darn thing before shooting off her mouth, didn’t she?
Foxx… Foxx… oh, right… she’s the one who called Matthew Sheppard’s murder a hoax…
One sharp political mind at work, that one. And she’s your ***cough*** Constitutional expert? Better keep trying.
August 21st, 2009 at 9:11 pmHey marwick:
http://thinkprogress.org/2009/08/20/public-plan-77-percent/
August 21st, 2009 at 9:11 pmThe problem with the troll’s interpretation of his poll is that he ignores those who think the legislation under debate doesn’t go far enough. Not to mention those who get their “news” from FAUX.
August 21st, 2009 at 9:15 pmElBruce says:
There it is! Third time I’ve posted it today.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
And I posted it a few days ago the LAST time he tried that stupid argument. He doesnt care. He will slink away and try the same already debunked talking point again the NEXT time it comes up
August 21st, 2009 at 9:20 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
This comment has been voted down. Click to read.
This comment has been voted down. Click to read.
This comment has been voted down. Click to read.
kwsventures says:
Finally someone that understands the U.S. Constitution and doesn’t interpret things that are not there.
August 21st, 2009 at 8:40 pm
Wrong. Again.
August 21st, 2009 at 9:33 pmElBruce says:
Sure. But real leaders – not just legislators, but leaders – also do an end-run around the legislative sausage-making process by clearly enunciating their desired position to the electorate directly. It’s that kind of leadership that’s lacking in this whole thing. There’s no need for the White House to be coy about what they want. Obama isn’t a Senator any more. They should be drumming up support from the populace for real reform, instead of hemming and hawing about what they might or might not stand for.
I couldn’t agree more. However, as a lifelong moderate with a keen interest in history, I have a deep distrust of “leaders”, as opposed to representatives. And I think that the overall divisiveness of our times, and the fact that President Obama is rumored to be not entirely white, makes bold power-grabs dangerous.
I am also encouraged by President Obama’s willingness to act decisively at the proper time and then explaining what he did. From the increased activity of the Pakistani military against the Taliban, to the “Clinton rescue mission”, he’s shown the ability to make real-time decisions based on real-time events. And, while he hasn’t exactly scorched the Republicans or Blue dogs, he has made appropriate strategic comments.
Once again. He isn’t giving much away and I’m not sure that’s a bad thing. A dressing down now, followed by the rest of the recess and all the blabber, wouldn’t really have much of an upside. I guess I don’t see the reason to spend political capital when all the GOoPers are doing is making outrageous claims. And we must always consider the possibility of a veto if he doesn’t like the product of reconciliation.
We got used to Chimpy screaming his intentions at the World. That’s one thing that Obama doesn’t do.
NOTE: In the interest of full disclosure I must admit that I’m being treated for pneumonia and my medication is making me feel very optimistic. BTW, I’m on Medicare and my total cost including x-rays, blood tests, assorted indignities, and medication is $6.20 for the medications.
August 21st, 2009 at 9:35 pmpete says:
August 21st, 2009 at 9:35 pm
Take good care of yourself, pete. (((hugs)))
August 21st, 2009 at 9:40 pmmarwick @100 only people who have bought into rightwing lies don’t want health care reform. They do not speak for the majority of Americans. The opposition is fueled by ignorance, rascism and insurance company front groups (i.e. freedumb works) that show up to events hoping to get free food, money and attention.
August 21st, 2009 at 9:43 pmHey marwick… even in the ABC poll you posted a majority of those surveyed supported a public option.
August 21st, 2009 at 9:44 pmRead it.
What does that tell you?
pete@114 – Get well soon! Peace & blessings 2U!
I feel confident in our President because he always remains cool, calm and collected. Goodness knows – we don’t need hystrionics.
August 21st, 2009 at 9:49 pmThere are at least 10 “Democratic” senators who need to change parties. Then we will know how many progressives we need to elect. Of course, Harry Reid needs to at least try to whip them to vote for change, but why bother? They are all his friends as are the insurance companies and the lobbyists. We don’t count. If Obama doesn’t start using words like “those who oppose reform of our health system are committing murder” or “without health care reform the entire economy will collapse and the Republicans will be responsible” we are screwed. Can’t anybody say the truth anymore?
August 21st, 2009 at 9:50 pmIn other news, Montanans don’t think much of how Baucus is handling this.
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marwick says:
People voted for Obama. But they oppose Obama’s health care plans.
77 percent support the public option.
If people didn’t want health care reform, they wouldn’t have voted for him. He campaigned on delivering health care reform.
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pete says:
I couldn’t agree more. However, as a lifelong moderate with a keen interest in history, I have a deep distrust of “leaders”, as opposed to representatives.
Leaders aren’t people who call themselves that. Leadership is one of the many things Bush did the opposite of. It consists of explaining concisely what you stand for and why, and helping to sell your constituency on your vision.
Every time I hear Obama make it sound like he doesn’t know or care what ends up going in the bill, it makes me cringe. He should be articulating exactly what should go in to the people so that those that agree with him can put pressure on Congress. As it is, we don’t know what it is we should be agreeing with. Not a Dubya “I’m leading by marching off in this direction and you’d better follow me or else,” but rather more of a “here’s what America should be like, and why, and how to get there.” Sell us, don’t just tell us. But say something at least!
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pete says:
I am also encouraged by President Obama’s willingness to act decisively at the proper time and then explaining what he did. From the increased activity of the Pakistani military against the Taliban, to the “Clinton rescue mission”, he’s shown the ability to make real-time decisions based on real-time events.
He definitely passes the Commander-in-Chief test, I must say.
August 21st, 2009 at 9:51 pmZooey says:
Take good care of yourself, pete. (((hugs)))
Thank you, Zooey. I actually haven’t felt sick. I had a coughing spell about two weeks ago which passed. Then a week ago I thought I had pulled a rib muscle and had a sharp pain that came and went. But I never felt tired or weak or had trouble breathing.
Then I had a coughing fit with the “rib pain” and decided to get narcotics. I am absolutely shocked that I have pneumonia. I figured that I would feel much more sick instead of just a little nagging discomfort.
I don’t mean to gripe but it goes to show that those of us who can get health care shouldn’t diagnose ourselves or neglect seemingly minor ailments.
August 21st, 2009 at 9:59 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
mvaunhalen says:
That may not bother many of you progressives, but it bothers the heck out of me!
____________
No doubt, you’re terrified of your own shadow, too.
August 21st, 2009 at 10:05 pmpete says:
August 21st, 2009 at 9:59 pm
That’s the pneumonia that sneaks up on you, pete. Thank goodness for pain, right? :)
August 21st, 2009 at 10:06 pmI’m not a progressive, liberal, or even a Democrat. All I can say, mvaunhalen, is that you appear to be afraid of a phantom.
August 21st, 2009 at 10:06 pmmvaunhalen says:
All I hear is this:
August 21st, 2009 at 10:09 pmhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qh2sWSVRrmo
mvaunhalen says:
The public option is the first dangerous step toward universal, single-payer health care. That may not bother many of you progressives, but it bothers the heck out of me!
August 21st, 2009 at 10:01 pm
I haven’t got a single problem with taking the public option step to single-payer.
BOO!!!
August 21st, 2009 at 10:10 pmmarwick says:
No Marwick YOU are stupid. VERY stupid. The poll does NOT say what YOU claim that Americans are against healthcare reform EVERY POLL TAKEN shows Americans are FOR healthcare reform. You were also told what skews the poll. That many dont think it goes FAR enough. Me for instance, forget a public option I want single payer. So you, as usual popped out with something you were too stupid to understand and then claimed it meant something NO ONE in their right mind believes and that the poll didnt even come CLOSE to saying. That americans dont support healthcare reform. Since all you do here is embarass yourself and show how abjectly stupid you are why not just STFU till for the first time in your pathetic life you have some dim idea what you are talking about and by that I dont mean what Rush TOLD you to think MORON
August 21st, 2009 at 10:10 pmmvaunhalen says:
Heh. Helen Lovejoy’s maiden name was ‘mvaunhalen’
August 21st, 2009 at 10:11 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Pain is instructional, Zooey. Though it’s too bad that so many of us seem to learn the wrong lessons from it.
August 21st, 2009 at 10:11 pmMARWICK and the rest of you trolls:
Get away from your talking points and polls and take a look at reality. Check out this link, http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/08212009/profile2.html watch the video, put yourself in these people’s shoes and then come back and tell me your “facts”.
If you can I’ll know for sure two things. One, this country is lost and we are too. Two, you sir will be beyond help. I suggest that if you can continue your campaign of hate after watching the video, that you go back to your church and relearn it’s tenants. We are our Brother’s Keepers, if not I feel we will go the way of all societies that became too intrinsic in their beliefs.
Please remember that cancer can attack those in “gated” communities and if you get sick enough to where you can’t work, there goes your job and your health insurance. Then try to get a new policy. You are just as susceptible to this illness as those in the video. In other words you could be them.
Think about it; maybe it won’t be you, but instead your wife or children and you’ll spend all your money to keep them alive. Think about it and then tell me with a straight face that everything in this country is just great.
I’m praying for you and also for our country. If we can’t get together on this then we don’t deserve to have what we brag about.
August 21st, 2009 at 10:15 pmI shouldn’t…but? I’ll bite.
I am quite capable of arguing all sides of any issue, mvaunhalen. If you had presented a “cold hard fact” I may, or may not, have chosen to argue it. But all I’ve seen from you is regurgitated, fearful, talking points.
August 21st, 2009 at 10:15 pmCouldn’t argue the cold hard facts, huh? By the way, the only person or thing on this earth I fear is my wife! :)
Are you afraid that once people realize how well the public option works you won’t be able to scare them with ’single-payer’ anymore?
Or are you just recognizing that private insurers will no longer be able to make obscene profits of the sick when their is a viable public option.
Would you like to talk about the ‘facts’ or would you like to tell us how bad you’ve heard ’single-payer’ systems are…
before you do you might want to look at this list:
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/story/cms.php?story_id=4025
August 21st, 2009 at 10:16 pmmvaunhalen says:
Yeah its so dangerous that most of the rest of the industrial world has it. Most of those 36 countries ABOVE us in quality of healthcare. Those countries that DONT have 18,000 citizens per year DIE from lack of access to healthcare and DONT have more than half a million bankrupcies per year due TO healthcare issues even though more than half of THOSE people had health insurance when their health problems began. Yeah. Single payer is SO much worse than what we have now.
August 21st, 2009 at 10:16 pmThank you for the well-wishes, hormiga brava chavez. Thanks to the wonders of modern medicine I feel very well and full of contentment. (Maybe I should get pneumonia more often?)
August 21st, 2009 at 10:19 pmmvaunhalen,
Assuming single payer or a public option is the first step towards universal care, why is that dangerous?
Is it because you have been terrorized into fearing some sort of danger over something that may or may not be a bad thing? Seriously, what is so bad about universal care that has you thinking it is dangerous?
August 21st, 2009 at 10:19 pmmvaunhalen says:
Couldn’t argue the cold hard facts, huh? By the way, the only person or thing on this earth I fear is my wife! :)
____________
Cold hard facts? In what you said? You’re kidding… aren’t you?
You’re hallucinating.
You ARE terrified of your own shadow.
BOO!!!
August 21st, 2009 at 10:24 pmLevi the Dungbeetle says:
Seriously, what is so bad about universal care that has you thinking it is dangerous?
___________
Because the PR flack from the insurance company told him he wouldn’t get paid if he didn’t say these things… :-D!
August 21st, 2009 at 10:25 pmIn the year 2002: definition: Bipartisanship: The dem minority votes for what the republican majority tells them to.
In the year 2009: definition: Bipartisanship: The repub minority does everything that can be done to stall and derail negotiations.
The shame is the 2002 definition was used to perpetuate terror on the US and on its constitution. The 2009 definition is used to make sure that people won’t have healthcare.
August 21st, 2009 at 10:26 pmEugeneDebs says:
Yeah it’s so dangerous that most of the rest of the industrial world has it. Most of those 36 countries rank ABOVE us in quality of healthcare.
____________
Careful, Eugene… you’re using “facts” as opposed to “hyperbole”, or as some call it, “sillyass nonsense”, to make your case. You might scare mvaunhalen, and as we all know, he’s easily frightened.
BOO!!!
Aw geez… somebody hold mvaunhalen’s hand… he’s tearing up.
August 21st, 2009 at 10:30 pmDid we scare mvaunhalen all the way back to FreeperVille? I was looking forward to a well-reasoned, non-frightened, logical debate.
August 21st, 2009 at 10:33 pmbelaccifer,
Thanks for the link, but that alone has done little to sway my decision as I’m pretty sure that France, a socialist nation, has more competing private health insurers than the United States does. The current plan on the table will eliminate some of the competition right away with the exception of policies that are grandfathered in.
EugenDebs,
August 21st, 2009 at 10:34 pmI’ve heard about that rating and looked into it. They used some pretty questionable tactics in data collection. By the way I’m not arguing the 18,000 figure, I’m pretty sure that’s accurate.
If things have been so bad here, then why are people clamoring to get into the U.S.
Bottom line is costs cant be controlled with a monopoly. We’re talking about the same people who paid $600 for a hammer, can’t run medicaid, and can’t run the post office.
BTW. I thought that David Lee Roth was the weak link in Van Halen. Until he left. Turns out that he was the one who really made the magic happen.
August 21st, 2009 at 10:35 pmmvaunhalen says
The public option is the first dangerous step toward universal, single-payer health care. That may not bother many of you progressives, but it bothers the heck out of me!
Nope, it does not bother me one bit that we have a public option. You should be worried that you will be shouldering 35% of your health care cost real soon as the private health insurance industry is going to increase your premiums.
And than it will be people like you who will be begging for help from the government to do something to control the high cost of health insurance when you can’t afford to pay.
The conservatives need to get with the program this is the 21st Century and were the only country in the world that does not offer our citizens health coverage.
August 21st, 2009 at 10:36 pmpete says:
Thank you for the well-wishes, hormiga brava chavez. Thanks to the wonders of modern medicine I feel very well and full of contentment. (Maybe I should get pneumonia more often?)
August 21st, 2009 at 10:19 pm
Bite your
August 21st, 2009 at 10:37 pmtonguefingers. :Dmvaunhalen says:
That may not bother many of you progressives, but it bothers the heck out of me!
Honestly, those facts make me feel a lot better! I was upset that they weren’t pushing for single-payer immediately, but now I understand why they’re just going for public option. Knowing that we’ll still have a chance to have a truly reasonable health care system in the long run really made my day. Thanks!
And don’t worry, it won’t be so bad when you have health care that you can actually get, and that actually serves your needs.
August 21st, 2009 at 10:37 pmThanks for the link, but that alone has done little to sway my decision as I’m pretty sure that France, a socialist nation, has more competing private health insurers than the United States does.
Exactly. France insures most of population TWICE for less than we spend…
And they have more competition in the private marketplace despite that scary ‘public option’
Weird… wait, no. Not weird, what’s the word?
Rational.
August 21st, 2009 at 10:40 pmBTW
August 21st, 2009 at 10:41 pmBoth my wife and I have been uninsured, and have had to shoulder the responsibility of paying our own medical bills. Don’t tell me how I’ll act “if I ever lose coverage”, because I’ve been there and I paid those bills.
Both my wife and I have been uninsured, and have had to shoulder the responsibility of paying our own medical bills
I’m very sorry.
That gave you no sympathy for the millions of others who are uninsured in the U.S.?
What about costs… why do we pay SO much more for incomplete coverage???
Strange…
August 21st, 2009 at 10:45 pm#128 EugeneDebs says:
The ABC poll clearly states that supporters for Obama’s health care plan are in the minority.
To say anything else is either dishonesty or complete stupidity. Which applies to you?
#132: RetiredSailor says:
Look, the country is spending trillions a year it doesn’t have. Health care would add to this. When other countries (ie, China) decide to quit lending us money, IT’S ALL OVER.
You won’t have health care, social security, medicare, etc. When the money runs out, IT’S ALL OVER.
End social programs. End them now.
August 21st, 2009 at 10:45 pmbelaccifer lacca,
August 21st, 2009 at 10:46 pmExactly!
The people pushing the public option now want to eventually eliminate the competition, so there’s a huge difference in what France has, and what we will have.
I’ll tell ya, Zooey. I could develop a profound affection for this cough syrup. It’s 38% alcohol; which is, apparently, the amount needed to maintain the codeine in suspension.
I would be lying to claim that I can’t appreciate this kind of euphoria, even if it’s achieved by manipulation of body chemistry.
August 21st, 2009 at 10:46 pmmvaunhalen says:
No they didnt. The WHO rankings are solid. That is just what the rightwing screechmonkeys tell their magpies. France is consistantly rated number one in the world in healthcare. Theirs is a public system with some cost to consumers THAT is sometimes paid by supplemental private insurances but UNIVERSAL coverage is gauranteed.
Why do you wingnuts recycle the same dumb talking poinst over and over. Yeah. First that claim is MADE over and over and over and over and over and I have seen ZERO evidence it is true. While I am sure if you are RICH you would want to go to Johns Hopkins. However YOU arent going there anyway and NO working class people are NOT flocking to the US to PAY for their healthcare. Even so. No one here is saying that the healthcare you can get here is bad rather that the lack of access is a blot on our collective integrity. We and by we I mean people like YOU are putting the profits of corporations and HUGE salaries above the LIVES of Americans. It is the ACCESS for all that we are talking about. The reason we are so low on the list isnt that our doctors or hospitals are bad rather that so many cannot afford basic healthcare
August 21st, 2009 at 10:46 pmmvaunhalen says:
Bottom line is costs cant be controlled with a monopoly. We’re talking about the same people who paid $600 for a hammer, can’t run medicaid, and can’t run the post office.
What do you think the private industry has done? Were talking about the same people who have defrauded consumers and the government of billions and billions of dollars. And there still going to raise their rates.
Were talking about an industry that denied a man in Chicago an enema but still took his $130 fee only to be told he was denied.
August 21st, 2009 at 10:46 pmLevi the Dungbeetle says:
Seriously, what is so bad about universal care that has you thinking it is dangerous?
COMMIES! NAZIES! EUTHANASIA! AAAAAAAHHHH!
(runs around screaming, flailing hands in air like a frightened child)
August 21st, 2009 at 10:46 pmmvaunhalen says:
Bottom line is costs cant be controlled with a monopoly.
_____________
Yep… a monopoly w/ unfettered control can drive prices thru the roof…
http://www.businessweek.com/blogs/money_politics/archives/2009/08/employer-sponso.html
Employer-Sponsored Insurance Premiums Rose 119% Over Past Decade
Posted by: Cathy Arnst on August 21
Family premiums for employer-sponsored health insurance in the U.S. increased 119% between 1999 and 2008, far, far higher than any increase in wages, according to a new survey. If current trends continue, premiums are on course to increase another 94% by 2020, to an average of $23,842 per family. Employees pay on average about 30% of this amount.
________________
I’d suggest you go and actually… ummm… “read” the article, but you’re so easily firghtened, you might pass out.
***off-mike…***
HEY… Debs… do we have any of those smelling salts left? mauvy’s looking a little peaked…
________________
We’re talking about the same people who paid $600 for a hammer, can’t run medicaid, and can’t run the post office.
________________
Oh, goody… MORE hyperbole, or as we like to call it… sillyass nonsense…
The myth of the $600 hammer
By Sydney J. Freedberg Jr.
National Journal December 7, 1998
Ever since the Defense Department procurement scandals of the 1980s, the $600 hammer has been held up as an icon of Pentagon incompetence.
One problem: “There never was a $600 hammer,” said Steven Kelman, public policy professor at Harvard University’s John F. Kennedy School of Government and a former administrator of the Office of Federal Procurement Policy. It was, he said, “an accounting artifact.”
______________
Got anything else silly you’d like to post?
August 21st, 2009 at 10:47 pmmvaunhalen says:
Thats great and you know how you will act if you need a kidney or heart trasplant? You will act DEAD because that is what you will be. People should not DIE because of what they cant afford
August 21st, 2009 at 10:49 pmI don’t know why the Democrats in Congress continually try to work with people who want to sabotage them.
August 21st, 2009 at 10:49 pmmvaunhalen says:
The people pushing the public option now want to eventually eliminate the competition, so there’s a huge difference in what France has, and what we will have.
______________
huh???
You’d PREFER the French system???
August 21st, 2009 at 10:49 pmI said the STEP towards single-payer is dangerous. I try to say EXACTLY what I mean. Why is it a bad idea?
Do you honestly think the government usually does a good job running anything?
Look at how the Bush administration ran the Iraq war.
August 21st, 2009 at 10:51 pmLook at how the Clinton administration miss-handled social security money.
Look at any government run organization and tell me that it’s efficient, high quality, and cost effective.
mvaunhalen says:
belaccifer lacca,
Exactly!
The people pushing the public option now want to eventually eliminate the competition, so there’s a huge difference in what France has, and what we will have.
I would happily support a system more like France’s…
Like Medicare in the United States, French NHI provides a great degree of patient choice. Unlike Medicare, however,
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1447687
Again, universal coverage is the goal… let’s get there.
August 21st, 2009 at 10:51 pmThe “new” troll’s arguments are as fraudulent, and fearful, as any of the “old” trolls. Sigh…
I actually dared to hope that I would find a rational argument. Pfffft! Not gonna happen.
August 21st, 2009 at 10:51 pmmarwick says:
THE SKY IS FALLING!!!
THE SKY IS FALLING!!!!
OOOPS… I think I wet myself!
August 21st, 2009 at 10:52 pmmarwick says:
My GOD you are so stupid it is pathetic. HERE is what you said
Not only are Republicans opposed to health care reform, but so are the majority of Americans
>>>>>>>>>>>
That is cut and pasted from YOUR post. So what you said was a majority of Americans OPPOSE HEALTHCARE REFORM you insufferable MORON. I dont care if you are just stupider than bread mold or are dishonest. Either way you are an ignorant punk. So a majority do NOT support this bill most likely because a whole LOT of people dont think it goes far enough and a whole lot of other people are brainwashed morons like YOU. So it doesnt mean NEAR as much as that a HUGE majority of Americans WANT reform and more than 75% want a public option. I really cant dumb it down any more for you. That you are staggeringly stupid really isnt our fault. Find a reasonably bright six year old to explain this to you
August 21st, 2009 at 10:54 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Yes, in fact, the government runs many things well, stupid trolls. Parks, police, military, public works, Social Security, Medicare, the USPS, and many others.
Do they all have problems? Yes. But all of those programs are fantastically successful by any measure.
August 21st, 2009 at 10:56 pmmvaunhalen says:
Do you honestly think the government usually does a good job running anything?
Can’t be any worse than what we got now. Lots of other countries’ governments are doing an OK job. It’ll never be perfect, but at least it’ll be better than the current clusterfcuk.
.
mvaunhalen says:
Look at any government run organization and tell me that it’s efficient, high quality, and cost effective.
Well of course not. Republicans in government insert riders to cripple and destroy any program they try to pass. Look what they did to the Medicare prescription benefit. Once we get rid of Republicans, everything will be much better.
August 21st, 2009 at 10:56 pmmvaunhalen says:
Another mindless talking point. Medicare operates on about a 3% margin and it is wildly popular. Private insurance is more like a 30% margin. The government put a man on the moon. Created the best military in the history of the world, A worldclass highway system rural electrification all those programs were successful by ANY standard. You just keep regurgitating things you were told to think
August 21st, 2009 at 10:56 pmPete said,
Mmmmmm, manipulation of body chemistry.
*drools like Homer Simpson*
August 21st, 2009 at 10:57 pmmarwick says:
Hey, that’s one way to make health care for profit work: Deny coverage.
August 21st, 2009 at 10:54 pm
Fixed it for you.
August 21st, 2009 at 10:57 pmpete says:
I’ll tell ya, Zooey. I could develop a profound affection for this cough syrup. It’s 38% alcohol; which is, apparently, the amount needed to maintain the codeine in suspension.
I would be lying to claim that I can’t appreciate this kind of euphoria, even if it’s achieved by manipulation of body chemistry.
August 21st, 2009 at 10:46 pm
Don’t bogart that cough syrup!
August 21st, 2009 at 10:58 pmThe Republic of Stupidity says:
huh???
You’d PREFER the French system???
Not at the moment, but I’m not entirely closed to the idea.
The government would first have to fix Medicaid. Once the fixed Medicaid system is proven to work efficiently, then I would be open to the idea of expanding it to cover more people. I’m not a total snob when it comes to my conservative principals.
I just think the current bill is too massive. Let’s fix the broken pieces of the machine before we start adding more workload for it. (Yes, I used a metaphor.)
August 21st, 2009 at 10:58 pmmarwick, did you read the article? It was a MISTAKE.
August 21st, 2009 at 10:58 pm
I’ve got a name for you, marwick, Stephen Hawking.
He’s made several very revealing statements about the way English health care treats degenerative brain/nerve diseases. Look him up and you may learn something despite yourself.
August 21st, 2009 at 11:01 pmI don’t know about other states but the Illinois Department of Motor Vehicles runs amazingly. You can renew all plates and pay fees online seamlessly. I just got my license renewed and it took less than 1/2 hour even though the place had hundreds of people there.
August 21st, 2009 at 11:01 pmGood night y’all, it’s getting late.
I had a great time with this debate.
Someday soon, it shouldn’t be long,
We’ll see who was right, and who was wrong.
Peace
August 21st, 2009 at 11:02 pmWhat office do you hold? Because we vote for representatives to decide and not every dillweed gets a say at what will work and what will not.
August 21st, 2009 at 11:03 pmmvaunhalen says:
BTW
Both my wife and I have been uninsured, and have had to shoulder the responsibility of paying our own medical bills. Don’t tell me how I’ll act “if I ever lose coverage”, because I’ve been there and I paid those bills.
I’ve been without health care coverage and was denied Medicaid because at that time I still had a part-time job that offered health care coverage but I was not eligible for and the cost was to way to much. I didn’t like it one bit that I had no health care coverage and I too paid those bills which nearly drove me to bankruptcy and it hurt my credit rating. In one year i.e. I had over $20,000 worth of health bills from an operation on my shoulder and I am my only source of income.
I support and want a public option. Everyone in Congress who doesn’t support a public option should be voted out of office.
August 21st, 2009 at 11:05 pmAnd then, miraculously, the stupid troll transforms “Medicare” into “Medicaid”. Medicaid is a state program with some Federal participation but it’s still a state program. Which is irrelevant.
Both have problems but, again, they are VERY successful programs that provide good health care to millions of people.
August 21st, 2009 at 11:06 pmmvaunhalen says:
August 21st, 2009 at 11:02 pm
Too many facts for you?
BTW, what you were doing wasn’t debate.
August 21st, 2009 at 11:07 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
marwick says:
Does socialized health care cover alzheimers?
Does your current health plan cover alzheimers, or any nursing home care beyond rehabilitation after hospitalization? NO
Does Medicare cover this? NO
Silly to think “socialized” health care will take away something you’ve never had. You’d be selling your house to pay for the nursing home just like the lady in Britain.
August 21st, 2009 at 11:10 pmHealth Care – RAM IT THROUGH!
Health care – RAM IT THROUGH!
Split the bill. Reconciliation!
Health Care – RAM IT THROUGH!
Health care – RAM IT THROUGH!
Screw bipartisanship. Time to take the gloves off.
Health Care – RAM IT THROUGH!
August 21st, 2009 at 11:11 pmHealth care – RAM IT THROUGH!
marwick says:
My GOD you are so stupid it is pathetic. Even IF true just because Britian doesnt in no way means WE wouldnt. Britain IS doing some cutting edge reasearch and it looks like what you say ISNT true.
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/06/25/us/british-study-sees-scant-value-in-alzheimer-s-drug-aricept.html
The drugs are also widely used in Britain, where the National Health Service agreed to pay for cholinesterase inhibitors in 2001.
So if they are paying for alzhiemer drugs I guess they DO cover alzheimers. NEXT
August 21st, 2009 at 11:11 pm“Stupid is a pre-existing condition.” – Bill Maher
August 21st, 2009 at 11:11 pmmarwick says:
Rightwing talking points and outright lies are all you are good for. ‘S”S is solid until 2047 Any business that could make that claim would be ecstatic. You linked to an INVESTMENT site for your stupid clai. You are so stupid it is physically painful to read your idiotic lying posts. Yeah blame unions yeah. Blah blah. Moronic lies like about Britian not covering alzhiemers patients are all you are good for. What a worthless ignorant punk you are.
August 21st, 2009 at 11:14 pmId like to also add that many of the greatest sports arenas were built by public bonds;
Texas Stadium:
August 21st, 2009 at 11:15 pmFinanced by 80% public bonds
This comment has been voted down. Click to read.
This comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Im sorry, that was Ranger Ballpark, not Texas Stadium
August 21st, 2009 at 11:17 pmwildwilly1111 says:
RAM IT THROUGH! RAM IT THROUGH!
_____________
Aw geez… leave your sex life out of the conversation, pal…
August 21st, 2009 at 11:18 pmAll of the problems the stupid troll cites, with public programs, merely confirm that they cost money. And, during the worst economic disaster in 70 years, money is tight. None of the troll’s examples demonstrate a collapse of the program or even a break in service.
All programs run a deficit in poor conditions and, to be frank, the reserves would be a lot deeper if not for recent GOP rule. But that’s a whole different discussion that, also, wouldn’t convince the stupid troll’s that gravity sucks.
August 21st, 2009 at 11:18 pmMy team, Coca Cola, can kick your Pepsi ass!!
August 21st, 2009 at 11:19 pmmarwick says:
Hey, that’s one way to make socialized health care work: Deny coverage.
__________
Well… that certainly is the way for-profit health care rakes in the dough!!!
August 21st, 2009 at 11:20 pmmarwick
Ah NO MORON you didnt report the story you LIED about it. Britian DOES cover Alzhiemers this is from YOUR link
Mrs Roe’s family appealed to the Health Service Ombudsman, which ruled that Mrs Roe’s assessment had been incorrect and her treatment should have been funded by the NHS. NHS Worcestershire has now reimbursed them for six years of care.
MY GOD you are so stupid you dont even READ the stories you link to before you LIE about them. And you wonder if I am a critical thinker? I wonder if you can READ.
August 21st, 2009 at 11:21 pmmarwick says:
You’re placing a lot of faith in your IF, EugeneDebs. You’re not a critical thinker, are you?
August 21st, 2009 at 11:15 pm
You place a lot of faith in your “may” and “maybe” in your post at 11:08 p.m.
You’re not a thinker.
August 21st, 2009 at 11:23 pmScrew healthcare, we gots to go to those publically funded stadiums to watch corporate teams, with city names, beat each other up and drink Bud while throwing Pilgrims pride bones on the field!!
August 21st, 2009 at 11:25 pmDoes it ever occur to the trolls that money spent does not actually leave the planet? It goes back into the economy, which we could really use these days.
Or do they only object when money is spent on people who are not in the top 1%?
August 21st, 2009 at 11:26 pmAnd and and My Chevy will get less MPG than your Chrysler!! So suck ny Ford!!
August 21st, 2009 at 11:26 pmmarwick, don’t worry about what the blue states do with their tax dollars, since they pay far more into the treasury. The current bill has more effort put into cost offset, where virtually none existed for the Iraquagmire and Medicare Part D. Republicans rammed Part D through the Senate with only 58 votes.
Please shut up.
August 21st, 2009 at 11:27 pmFuturama, here we come!
Any hot tuff but sexy chicks out there who drink chicken crap anti-biotics infused water from chesepeake bay with one eye need a date?
August 21st, 2009 at 11:28 pmmarwick you are a punk and a liar and a moron. Its that simple. You linked to an INVESTMENT site for your BS claim. Why would I bother to read an OPINION from people with a vested interest in getting SS privatized. My GOD you are so stupid it is pathetic.
http://www.prospect.org/csnc/blogs/beat_the_press_archive?month=03&year=2009&base_name=the_washington_post_continues
Under the law, Social Security benefits are paid out of its trust fund. This trust fund has accumulated a surplus of almost $2.5 trillion. The lower projected surpluses for the next few years will have some impact (if the projections prove correct) on the date at which the fund is projected to be depleted, but the projected depletion date will almost certainly be beyond 2040, even after CBO adjusts its numbers for the downturn.
Look you are a liar and a moron keep pushing your BS it just makes you look like the fool you are
August 21st, 2009 at 11:29 pmSince it’s a prescription, Zooey, it’s my legal obligation to bogart my cough syrup. I just can’t decide whether to invent a new cocktail or find a suitable chaser.
August 21st, 2009 at 11:31 pmWomen in UK gives birth on pavement after being refused an ambulance.
GET YOUR OWN DAMN AMBULANCE!
Nice! Rationing ambulances!
August 21st, 2009 at 11:33 pmpete says:
Since it’s a prescription, Zooey, it’s my legal obligation to bogart my cough syrup. I just can’t decide whether to invent a new cocktail or find a suitable chaser.
August 21st, 2009 at 11:31 pm
Oh, you law-abiding types. :D
When in doubt, do both!
August 21st, 2009 at 11:33 pmNewsflash: Teabagging knee benders for scrotal needs are protesting popular sports stadiums because they are socialist.
August 21st, 2009 at 11:35 pmZooey, it’s my legal obligation to bogart my cough syrup. I just can’t decide whether to invent a new cocktail or find a suitable chaser
Like the flaming moe, I suggest you call your concoction [no pund intended] the flaming peter [no pun intended]
August 21st, 2009 at 11:36 pmI think marwick is getting hysterical.
August 21st, 2009 at 11:37 pmmarwick says:
Yeah I could put up several horror stories from the US ending in DEATH about our private insurers but anecdotal nonsense doesnt prove anything except sometimes people are morons. You ought to know that already from the fact you are ALWAYS a moron. So you got spanked on your stupid claim Britian doesnt cover Alzhiemers a story you didnt even READ before you lied about it and went in search of another failure on Britain. You could find them in any country. Do you even REALIZE how pathetic you are?
August 21st, 2009 at 11:38 pmThe problem with trolls, and their inverted black/white world, is that they can’t see the value in spending money on keeping people alive. Spending money to kill people is fine with them because it’s easy to see the results. They don’t care about the cost of Iraq because any moron with eyes can see we “blowed it up real good”. It amounts to instant gratification.
What makes it hard for trolls is that money spent helping people is hard to quantify. We can’t assess the real value of a fifty dollar colonoscopy until we can count the twenty-year cancer survivors. And, despite everything, people die anyway.
August 21st, 2009 at 11:41 pmpete
August 21st, 2009 at 11:41 pmIf you are inventing cocktails can you suggest what one might do with a whole bunch of Moxie?
Zooey says:
I think marwick was born handicapped with crippling stupidity. I think he will die with the same condition
August 21st, 2009 at 11:41 pm#203 EugeneDebs: Under the law, Social Security benefits are paid out of its trust fund.
If you believe that, then our discussion is over. You’re too stupid to continue.
The social security trust fund is full of IOUs. No value whatsoever.
Social Security Crisis Looms.
August 21st, 2009 at 11:43 pm
211 pete The problem with trolls, and their inverted black/white world, is that they can’t see the value in spending money on keeping people alive.
We don’t have the money. $1.8 trillion (or more) deficit just this year. CBO says socialized health care would add to that.
If China decides to skip a bond auction, it’s all over.
You should read Empire of Debt.
August 21st, 2009 at 11:45 pmHeh, heh! Xisithrus.
But? I would never dream of burning off the alcohol in a cocktail.
August 21st, 2009 at 11:45 pmGood point, Eugene. What right-wingers fail to do is differentiate between SS/Med outlook and current trust. If republicans would stop crapping on the economy every time they take power the outlook of these programs would improve as revenues would be restored.
August 21st, 2009 at 11:45 pmMarwick, we have been a debtor nation since 1971 when Nixon closed the gold window.
August 21st, 2009 at 11:46 pm216 Xisithrus:
Are you Dick Cheney? “Deficits don’t matter.” Was that you?
August 21st, 2009 at 11:46 pmSocial Security may be depleted by 2037.
We’ll fix the Republican looting of SS before then.
Calm down, marwick.
August 21st, 2009 at 11:46 pmGood man!
August 21st, 2009 at 11:47 pmIf China decides to skip a bond auction, it’s all over.
You should protest before George Bush’s estate. If the little tool can get past security.
August 21st, 2009 at 11:47 pmYou see a Halliburton sticker on my back bumper?
August 21st, 2009 at 11:48 pmmarwick says:
You are so stupid I am shocked you can feed yourself. What YOU call IOUs are in fact treasury bonds. The US has never in its HISTORY defaulted on them. NOT ONCE. The full faith and credit of the US stand behind them. They arent IOUs written by your brother in law. The demographics have changed and we need to tweak Medicare the way we have SS several times already. SS is SAFE until past 2040. Just because the FACTS dont fit your ignorant argument the one RUSH told you to beleive isnt really relevant. SS is NOT in trouble for several decades THOSE are the facts. No one cares that you are too stupid to even recognize reality. What an ignoramus you are. You are so stupid you dont even GET how bad you are embarassing yourself. Why would anyone believe ANYTHIGN you say which are mostly unfounded delusions and opinions when you cant even understand the few links you DO give. Have you recognized yet that YES Britian DOES cover Alzhiemers or were you too stupid to ever finish reading that article? NOW you want to say we need to take YOUR opinion over the faith and credit of our own country. You are simply pathetic
August 21st, 2009 at 11:50 pm“Deficits don’t matter.”
Like relativity, that depends on your view.
August 21st, 2009 at 11:51 pmIt’s one part of mental illness plaguing the right — selective concern post-Jan. 20th, and they do a good job of ignoring people’s reminder that they caused the problem, doubled down on it and didn’t put up a fuss when the times demanded it.
marwick, we know you think killing off brown people and subsidizing corporations makes for a scenario where deficits don’t matter, but in order to get out from under the deep recession, doubled health care costs and numerous other ill effects your hero cause, we’re going to have to put in to get out, or spend.
August 21st, 2009 at 11:54 pmHave you fixed a problem in your life marwick, or do you have experience causing them? Because you’re pretty jealous, projecting your inabilities on the people who’ve come in to clean up your mess.
August 21st, 2009 at 11:55 pmOnce again, stupid troll, everything runs a deficit in an economic collapse. The year from Jan. ‘08 through Jan. ‘09 was the worst in U.S. financial history. When one looks at all the wealth that simply ceased to exist in a short time? It outstrips the Great Depression.
Even though the Reichwhiners try to rewrite history, with some success, any student of actual history would agree that most countries, and the World’s economy, “spent their way” out of the Depression.
Alas, it looks like the rest of the World has been wiser, and more effective, in it’s efforts to “spend their way” out of the current crisis. We’ve been preoccupied with dismissing a failed party from the decision loop.
August 21st, 2009 at 11:58 pmI went to a house the other day to fix a problem.
When I arrived the guy said “I think its the democrat valve”
“Oh Rand” I said.
“Really” he said “I think its Trotskied up”
“Well” I said “Stop Stalin it”
“Keynes that!” He cried.
“Look, the democrat valve is full of Bush” I showed him.
“Just Gore it with your machine” He directed
“I dont have enough Scalia for that” I retorted
“Are you gonna fix the democrat valve?” He asked
“Just as soom as I clear the lobby!!” I yelled
“I need to use the republican” He confessed
“And thats my fault?” I queried
August 22nd, 2009 at 12:06 amAs Congress agonizes over health care, an even more daunting and dangerous challenge is bearing down: how to shore up Social Security to keep it from burying the nation ever deeper in debt.
marwick,
The solution is for republicans to stop forcing their ideology on a country that leads to anemic job growth and deep recessions. That’s how you shore up the outlook of these programs.
August 22nd, 2009 at 12:07 amAn interesting point, McWars. Do these freaks have the faintest idea how problems are solved? It sure seems like they just quit when their poor, stunted, intellects can’t cope. The rest of us try to apply our wisdom and experience to solving problems.
August 22nd, 2009 at 12:08 amXisithrus says:
August 22nd, 2009 at 12:06 am
Clever!!
August 22nd, 2009 at 12:11 ampete says:
An interesting point, McWars. Do these freaks have the faintest idea how problems are solved? It sure seems like they just quit when their poor, stunted, intellects can’t cope. The rest of us try to apply our wisdom and experience to solving problems.
One tactic of a bully is to put the sound goals of the opposition on a unrealistic timeline of their choosing. To some, that may be passed off as checks-and-balances. To those of us who know their history and motives, it’s clearly an attempt at setting us up for failure.
August 22nd, 2009 at 12:15 amheh
August 22nd, 2009 at 12:23 amearwig says:
But wait. That’s pretty much the current system. Social Security takes contributions from today’s workers and uses them to pay the old-age benefits that were promised to retirees. But there are serious concerns how long that can last.
How about abolishing the cap on SSI?
August 22nd, 2009 at 12:25 amThat’ll help. We should also push the retirement age back to 68, or give a larget % benefit to morons like me who don’t want to retire till 72 or so.
For Publicans, there is no give, only take. Please give us these four or five concessions, then we won’t vote for it anyway.
August 22nd, 2009 at 12:26 amSchoolyard crap.
katy, could Chuck Todd be a bigger a$$hole on Bill Maher? I don’t think so.
August 22nd, 2009 at 12:32 amThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
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Ya know, everyone, are we really in the 21st century?
The United States used to be the best at producing the most and good cars, the most and the best steel, the most and the best textiles, etc. We used to be able to produce the most and best of everything. Not today! And probably never again. We only provide service jobs now. Just like the republican elite want it. CEO’s are sick and must be elliminated.
August 22nd, 2009 at 1:43 amThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
This comment has been voted down. Click to read.
@Outlaw284 -
“To start with if the Government is so good at running things then why is it that medicare is bankrupt and Social Security is going right behind it.”
___
Yo, asshat troll: that has everything to do with congressional politics and ZILCH to do with the executive/administrative competence of the respective agencies. They work admirably with what they are given. And, if the multi-billions now destined for the pockets of the well-heeled for-profit sector are even partially diverted to ACTUAL care and requisite administration, they will do even better.
Moreover, I was my late father’s legal guardian. He was WWII disabled vet VA. I dealt with them on his behalf. You are simply full of [bleep].
You Got No Game here.
August 22nd, 2009 at 1:50 amMcWars says:
The solution is for republicans to stop forcing their ideology on a country that leads to anemic job growth and deep recessions. That’s how you shore up the outlook of these programs.
They don’t have a real ideology except to kill social programs because it puts more money in their wallet. Everything is about money, not freedom.
August 22nd, 2009 at 1:52 amThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
This comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Outlaw284 says:
DO you have a clue as to why we don’t have those jobs here anymore.
It is because of your democratic party and their taxes.
Bullshite. When Clinton was in office jobs were being created. When Bush took over, jobs declined and continue to decline. Bush let the corporations outsource jobs while retaining many tax benefits that they should have lost when the jobs went overseas. Bush also allowed illegal immigration to reach record proportions because they provide cheaper labor than hiring a citizen. All this occurred because Bush was a toadie for the rich and big business.
August 22nd, 2009 at 1:59 amA “Republican with ideas” is as common as a whale who wears glass slippers.
August 22nd, 2009 at 2:00 amBS, Outlaw, the Bush tax cuts, some 1.5 trillion resulted in some 8 milliom jobs creation over an eight year span. Trickle down is a theory.
August 22nd, 2009 at 2:00 amOutlaw284 says:
pags2
Do you have any idea just how dumb that statement is. If the Republicans wanted more money in their hands then they would want everyone on social programs because it would put them in control of everything. SO much for the deep thinking skills.
No. Dick Armey and other Republicans have said they want to repeal Medicare, Social Security, minimum wage laws and a host of other things. Apparently, these Republicans think the poor and unemployed are going to disappear. But they have not learned from history what happens when you do such things:
Russia 1917
August 22nd, 2009 at 2:02 amCuba 1959
etc.
Taxes are basically an overhead. And any overhead reduction abobe the cost of production is normally returned to the one time investor [shareholder]
Besides that 2/3rds of all corporations pay no taxes so its implausible that a tax can create jobs in 2/3rds corporate production
August 22nd, 2009 at 2:03 amSimply put: IF two thirds of corporations pay no tax, then any tax cut would………….
fill in the blanks
August 22nd, 2009 at 2:06 amBobbyG
Do you even have a clue as to ho wmuch the private sector makes as profit. You must not becuse if you did then you wouldn’t be making that statement. As to the VA you have no clue as to what they did. All you can go on is what you had to do with them for your grandfather. Hate to tell you I have worked there and seen what different VA’s are like so your claim holds no water. Not all of them are like the ones that I was at I am sure but more were then weren’t.
August 22nd, 2009 at 2:08 amThey still shouldn’t be giving out 24 million in bonuses to the employees that money should be going back to the vets.
SlappyMoron says:
Why do you bother. Beg us for our pity all you want your posts will go right to the sewer. Its late but as soon as the people start coming in the morning you will be gone. Everyone is sick of your begging. We all know how stupid and pathetic you are but you are like the guy who is always begging for change people get sick of it and everyone is sick of YOU. Obviously you dont even WANT any dignity or self respect and begging is all you know. You are sad and pathetic, you always will be but you will get no more pity from me no matter how much you beg for it
August 22nd, 2009 at 2:13 amIf they did, why lobby congres to protect that profit??
August 22nd, 2009 at 2:14 amOutlaw284 says:
You are a liar and a fool. Your stupid talking points have already BEEN debunked. SS is NOT going bankrupt you are a liar. I already linked to the site with the truth. This site had a thread about how vetrens rate their healthcare higher than the general public and so on. Yeah we get it. You are too stupid to have any idea what is real so you just spew out the lies that Rush has programmed you with. You are an ignorant brainwashed moron spewing lies.
August 22nd, 2009 at 2:16 amIE, Why does the ‘private sector’ need to lobby congress, if its so profitable, outlaw?
August 22nd, 2009 at 2:16 amOutlaw284 says:
Here is a lesson for YOU there IS 11 trillion in the trust fund MORON. Backed by Treasury bonds about the safest thing in the entire world.
August 22nd, 2009 at 2:17 amWHY OUTLAW, IF THESE FOLKS ARE SO PROFITABLE DO THEY NEED POLITICIANS? OR SUBSIDIES?
August 22nd, 2009 at 2:20 amOutlaw284 says:
You dont have a clue about ANYTHING you ignorant brainwashed moron. Most of the companies that left were still making profits they just figured they could make HIGHER profits by exploiting workers and the environment in the third world. Why should they live like kings when they can live like Roman emporers.
August 22nd, 2009 at 2:20 am@Outlaw284, 254 -
Yes, I do, and I’ve likely forgotten more than you ever hoped to know with respect to this issue. In the aggregate the for-profit “health care” sector is roughly 3x as profitable as the rest of corporate America. You are a fool. Moreover, an anonymous screen name fool. Spare us.
August 22nd, 2009 at 2:21 amOutlaw284 says:
My GOD you are stupid do you have ANY idea what a brainwashed moron you are?
August 22nd, 2009 at 2:21 amI love this. The whole lot of you are clueless when it comes to corperate tax. Bush didn’t cut the corperate tax rate sorry it has been at the rate it is now since clinton. He cut taxes for the people. Oh and to help you out. Corperate tax is figured on the profit so it can’t be figured as an overhead sorry.
August 22nd, 2009 at 2:22 amBobbyG
August 22nd, 2009 at 2:25 amReally so I guess just over a 3% profit is to much then. If that is the case then why aren’t you complaining about beverage companies. Last year they had over a 30% profit.
@Outlaw284
You’re beautiful when you’re angry, sweetie.
xoxoxo
‘night, and, by all means have the last — insipid — word.
August 22nd, 2009 at 2:27 amThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Sure acts like a smart fella, but the other night he and another troll got in a pissing match with a spambot. I couldn’t stop laughing.
Starts with the spambot post @ 208 and you have to “click to read” outlaw’s posts and another troll worked with him to try to straighten the spam bot out.
goes for 6 or 8 posts. Good for a laugh and give you and idea of what you are dealing with.
http://thinkprogress.org/2009/08/15/cpr-tricked-women/comment-page-6/#comment-5765157
August 22nd, 2009 at 2:29 amOutlaw284 says:
You DEFINE clueless. Bush may not have cut the corporate tax RATE but he DID cut corporate taxes
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6307293/
WASHINGTON – With no fanfare, President Bush Friday signed the most sweeping rewrite of corporate tax law in nearly two decades, showering $136 billion in new tax breaks on businesses, farmers and other groups.
But opponents charged that the tax package had grown into a massive giveaway that will add to the complexity of the tax system and end up rewarding multinational companies that move jobs overseas.
He also WANTED to cut the corporate tax rate he just ran into the economic meltdown
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/378712/bushs_top_economist_criticized_for.html?cat=3
However, last month the President announced that he is considering a new plan to cut tax rates for United States corporations in order to try to make them more competitive in the global marketplace.
August 22nd, 2009 at 2:29 amOutlaw284 says:
I love this. The whole lot of you are clueless when it comes to corperate tax.
You wish. 2/3 of corporation pay no tax.
August 22nd, 2009 at 2:29 amIRS enforcement on corporations, such as corporate audits, took a dive during the Bush admin. And 2/3 of corporations pay no taxes at all. Sorry you’re misinformed, troll.
August 22nd, 2009 at 2:29 amNixon set the stage for relations with China.
August 22nd, 2009 at 2:30 amReagan opened the gate.
He not only allowed, but encouraged American companies to use and train the Chinese to manufacture their goods. Not only did it displace American workers, import taxes remained too low and our domestic manufacturers could not possibly compete…
Twenty years later, the rich corporate manufacturers are hardly willing to give up these profit margins, and neither are the Chinese. Both make their money on the cheap labor of the poor, selling their goods to the working poor on credit.
It’s a Wal-Mart world.
corperate tax
You know, Trajan, your spelling habits give you away
August 22nd, 2009 at 2:30 amAs far as what the dems are up against take a minute to view rachel maddow on how the republicans are moving the goalposts, again. This is getting a little crazy.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/#32501344
August 22nd, 2009 at 2:34 amOh, and thanks so much for my wittle tax cut, too bad the foul price hikes under Bush – 400% gasoline, food, health care doubled – didn’t leave that tax cut to stand a chance.
Why don’t you get out of the way and let the adult clean up the mess you left behind.
August 22nd, 2009 at 2:35 amOutlaw284 says: Xisithrus
Why if windmills are so good at producing energy do they need to be subsidized
Why does big oil with record profits need subsidies? Why is agriculture nees subsiides? Why does private insurance need grants to keep rates down?
The problem, accorsing to T Boone Pickens, wind energy investor, is the power grids
August 22nd, 2009 at 2:36 amIt’s a well known fact:
Companies don’t pay taxes. Need simple proof that’s readily available:
From Fox for the tin foil hat guys:
Most Companies Escape Paying Federal Income Taxes
How Multinational Corporations Avoid Paying Their Taxes
Anyone who deny’s it is an idiot. I’m pretty sure you guys already knew that, well everyone except the ones living on the fringe and think they are outlaws.
Kinda reminds me of a 6 year old…outlaw…chuckle.
August 22nd, 2009 at 2:39 amDont bring a peashooter to a non scalar fight Outlaw?
The weapons industry backs NRA and like tobacco or insurance they create and use TOOLS to support THEIR interests. IE gun sales.
August 22nd, 2009 at 2:39 amThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Why if the Unions are so good do they have to lobby congress.
I don’t believe unions spend much time lobbying congress in proportion to big business. Unions are the people. The insurance industry descending upon congress in their supercharged $200 million campaign (using premium dollars that could go toward approving more care) is lobbying to protect a warped business model wreaking havoc on the people.
I’m glad I could draw the distinction for you.
August 22nd, 2009 at 2:42 amDo you work for any of these folks?
August 22nd, 2009 at 2:46 amOutlaw284 says:
You are a moron. Frankly you dont know anything Rush didnt tell you to think.
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2009_01/016642.php
* America’s Effective Tax Rate Is Comparable To Other G7 Nations: According to a recent U.S. Treasury report, the effective tax rate on equipment financed by equity is 24 percent, the same as the G-7 average. The rate on equipment financed by debt is minus 46 percent, meaning that the government actually subsidizes these investments rather than taxing them.
* America Is The Number One Country To Do Business: The World Economic Forum’s Global Competitiveness Report for 2007-2008 concluded that the United States is most business friendly, followed by Switzerland, Denmark, Sweden, Germany, Finland and Singapore. Ireland came in at number 22.
* Two-Thirds Of Corporations Did Not Pay Taxes: According to last month’s Government Accountability Office (GAO) report, between 1998 and 2005 “about two-thirds of corporations operating in the United States did not pay taxes” because of a variety of corporate tax loopholes.
* US Raises Less Taxes From Corporations Than Ireland: In the United States, corporate revenues as a percentage of GDP was about 2.2 percent; Ireland raised close to 4 percent.
I had to leave out the links but they can be found at the Washingtonmonthly site
Do you even get how stupid and brainwashed you are?
August 22nd, 2009 at 2:50 amThe 2/3 that you keep using those were small businesses that paid other taxes.
What a crazy distortion. Wachovia (included among the 2/3) is not a small business.
August 22nd, 2009 at 2:51 amThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Outlaw284 says:
McWars
THe unions have spent over 154 million on congress right now
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Pocketchange compared to what Corporations spend. You are a joke
August 22nd, 2009 at 2:55 ambullshit, prove it!
August 22nd, 2009 at 2:58 amCorperate tax is figured on the profit so it can’t be figured as an overhead
Thanks for clearing up the very basics for the teabaggin idiot. It’s seems they carry around the stupid for all topics, er rather, for all seasons.
Teabaggers are proud ardent caretakers of stupid, it’s their legacy.
“They have WMD.”
“Let’s throw out the Healthcare Reform bill, and start fresh. We promise to be bipartisan”
“Dems need 90% acceptance to be called bipartisan.”
“Earth is 6K yo.”
“Shit smells like chocolate.”
Get real, these gun-carrying, screeching foaming-at=the-mouth racist bullshitters want to cry and play with their snot when it’s told to them to STFU and get serious. GTFOOH!
August 22nd, 2009 at 2:59 amThe insurance industry is spending 150 mil a day trying to thwart reform.
August 22nd, 2009 at 3:00 amCorporate tax cuts do not work
August 22nd, 2009 at 3:01 am
Out of the major Corporations there is about 25% of them that don’t pay corporate taxes. Wachovia is one of them. But they still have to pay taxes of one sort or another.
August 22nd, 2009 at 3:02 amCorporate tax is paid on the profit you SHOW.
And paid to the country you incorporate in.
August 22nd, 2009 at 3:03 amOutlaw284 says:
McWars
THe unions have spent over 154 million on congress right now
Where’s your link? And what is “right now”?
August 22nd, 2009 at 3:05 amOutlaw I appreciate you stopping by to get your butt kicked and give us a free clown show. I just wonder whats in it for YOU?
August 22nd, 2009 at 3:09 amMcWars
Did that report say how many companies would move into the US if the corporate tax rate was cut. Did it say what tax cuts states would give companies to move back into their states.
August 22nd, 2009 at 3:16 amI will make it easy for you. The lowest corporate tax rate of all 50 states, that is both state and federal is 35% all the way up to the highest which is 41.6%
Now you tell me if you had to pay almost half of what you made to the government would you stay in this country or would you try to find somewhere else where you could make you company make more of a profit.
So once again if you cut the corporate tax then you would bring companies back to this country.
Sorry your economist isn’t using all the numbers. And how many people do you have to share your profits with? Most corporations when you start them start with 100 shares if you set them up with shares
McWars
August 22nd, 2009 at 3:17 amThe unions have spent that much this year
he’s a pathetic attention whore who will take negative attention if that’s all he can get.
Seems obvious….
August 22nd, 2009 at 3:17 amLike you know anything at all about setting up a public business. I doubt that you have enough understanding to be involved in a private one unless they need a janitor.
August 22nd, 2009 at 3:21 amYou have your preconceived notions and creativity not based in reality as to the effectiveness of corporate tax rates.
Mark Zandi is a widely quoted economist.
I don’t need to worry about how many corporations would move their HQ back into the U.S. because small business creates 70% of the jobs in this country. Their traitorous actions leaching off this great land is far more significant than any economic benefit they could provide.
Companies who ship jobs overseas receive a tax break.
Some meddling and money manipulation at the top of a few corporations is not going to pull this economy out of a rut. State tax levels do not pose any significance to excuse 2/3 of corporations paying no federal tax.
Quoting state tax levels, by the way, undercuts your argument about bringing jobs back to the U.S. If state tax levels are a cause of concern for companies, they could choose to relocate to a different state, not send jobs overseas.
You’re going all over the place without any argumentative cohesion.
August 22nd, 2009 at 3:25 amFred
Well lets see Fred. Which part do you want to know about. What you have to have in your bylaws, how many people you need to start different corporations. Weather you can be a sole proprierorship or an S corp or maybe incorporate. Which one do you want to know about because right now I am a sole proprierorship going into an S corp.
August 22nd, 2009 at 3:26 amNow you want to continue to prove that you are just as stupid as you were when you left woodstock
I didn’t ask you to repeat what you said. I asked you to provide a link. How many unions are we talking about? What percentage of lobby money spent in comparison to their corporate/industrial counterpart?
August 22nd, 2009 at 3:29 amIt’s beyond me why “conservatives” are so protective of big businesses that make the unethical choice of avoiding taxes that would strengthen the economy and quality of life of the very people that made them wealthy.
I guess it should be no surprise that they would defend the biggest liars and cheats.
What a cult of greed.
August 22nd, 2009 at 3:32 amOutlaw284 says:
More than half of all businesses pay no tax at all and a quarter of huge corporations pay NO taxes that means few of the rest pay THAT tax rate. You can try all the mind reading you want. You can snivel and gives us the rerun of the Rush Limbaugh show till the cows come home. The US was rated number ONE business friendly country in the Global Competitiveness report.
http://www.weforum.org/en/initiatives/gcp/Global%20Competitiveness%20Report/index.htm
The United States tops the overall ranking in The Global Competitiveness Report 2008-2009.
Spew all the fantasies and whatever else Rush TOLD you to think THAT wont go away. The only one who thinks the US is hard on businesses is YOU. Even Rush doesnt really beleive it he isnt as stupid as you. He just knows he can pull your strings and make you regurgitate the stupidest things imaginable. YOU are a brainwashed moron. Its that simple
August 22nd, 2009 at 3:32 amWell lets see Fred. Which part do you want to know about. What you have to have in your bylaws, how many people you need to start different corporations. Weather you can be a sole proprierorship or an S corp or maybe incorporate. Which one do you want to know about because right now I am a sole proprierorship going into an S corp.
Yadda, Yadda.
You tools sure know how to be all you can possibly be over the tubes.
Does your S corp sell troll droppings?
Funny that one of two major parties is hell-bent on defending high-tower interests of 30% of American industries — the largest corporations.
You’re a leftover of a failed ideology, son.
August 22nd, 2009 at 3:34 amThe state levels add to the problem. You still have a 35% tax on their profit. It doesn’t matter help a business if it is wanting to grow. When you figure in the other factors of if you have employees, how many, if you are going to own or lease both land and equipment. Then you have the taxes for the employees, your property, invintory, state tax, county tax, and then there are taxs for different types of companies and then on top of that you have to pay taxes on your profit. There is no incentive to start a new business and try to grow it right now.
August 22nd, 2009 at 3:34 amOutlaw284 says:
McWars
The unions have spent that much this year
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
So NO you wont give a link so we can see for ourselves what the source is and what else they say? Yeah. Typical propaganda parrot. Let me guess it sounded good when Rush TOLD you is that about it?
August 22nd, 2009 at 3:34 amOutlaw284 says:
WWWWWWAAAAAAAHHHHHH the US is only the most business friendly country in the world. It hasnt reinstated slavery, it wont allow a feudal system nor allow it to kill its employees off one a day WWWWWAAAHHHHHHH what is the world coming to when the US is only THE MOST BUSINESS FRIENDLY COUNTRY IN THE WORLD and not a vassal state where workers are in THRALL to corporate interests WWWWWWWWAAAAHHHHHHHH. You DEFINE pathetic troll.
August 22nd, 2009 at 3:36 amPerhaps some of the Democratic Senators need to spend a day or two with their Democratic voters.
Lord knows they spend too much time with big moneied interests.
August 22nd, 2009 at 3:41 amThe state levels add to the problem. You still have a 35% tax on their profit. It doesn’t matter help a business if it is wanting to grow. When you figure in the other factors of if you have employees, how many, if you are going to own or lease both land and equipment. Then you have the taxes for the employees, your property, invintory, state tax, county tax, and then there are taxs for different types of companies and then on top of that you have to pay taxes on your profit. There is no incentive to start a new business and try to grow it right now.
So you’ve given me the run down on what goes on in the S(hit) corp accounting office while you’ve fallen behind in proving your points: (a) what economic benefit does a corporate tax cut provide, with link, and (b) what does a state tax have to do with bringing jobs back to the U.S. With your new post, I’ll throw in (c): Is 35% a state figure on profits?
With your new post, throw in a (d) as a question: How is a tax cut on non-existent profits going to help most businesses? The economy is wrecked and profits among most businesses are down or non-existent.
August 22nd, 2009 at 3:46 amOutlaw284
bla bla bla…..
Tell us why business did so well under Clinton little fella.
We are so tired of hearing how hard it is for business. Just give me a freakin break.
August 22nd, 2009 at 3:50 amEugeneDebs
To start with it is a survey. Next it doesn’t say anything about companies moving here does it. All it says is that the US is Competitive. That was real hard to figure out. You can be Competitive but still be paying a lot of taxes. But then I wouldn’t expect someone like you to be able to figure that out. The only answer you have is that it is a Rush talking point or that the US is Competitive. By the way why don’t you tell me just where it is that I said that the US wasn’t Competitive. I said they were moving out of the US because of taxes I didn’t say they were Competitive but nice try.
August 22nd, 2009 at 3:57 amhuh?
August 22nd, 2009 at 4:03 amYou guys have fun with the “outlaw” “ceo”
I’ve seen enough of his idiosy over the last couple of days.
seriously if you want a laugh follow the link @ 268
August 22nd, 2009 at 4:06 amoutlaw
No to start it was NOT just a survey. The survey was PART of it
The rankings are calculated from both publicly available data and the Executive Opinion Survey, a compre-hensive annual survey conducted by the World Economic Forum together with its network of Partner Institutes (leading research institutes and business organizations) in the countries covered by the report.
Why do you LIE so much?
Is it really my fault that you just spew Limborg talking points no matter how ludicrous they are? If you are sensative about being so brainwashed I suggest you try for what would obviously be the very first time in your entire life to think for yourself. Then maybe you could cough up a link when you spew out stats.
You claimed the taxes were reasons companies LEFT the US and at least IMPLIED they would come back if they paid less taxes. Of course you only believe this because Rush told you to. We all know that. So I guess that WOULD be competitiveness pretty much by definition wouldnt it? If you are too stupid to even know WHAT YOU ARE ARGUING why are you wasing our time.
August 22nd, 2009 at 4:20 amThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
This comment has been voted down. Click to read.
This comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Outlaw284 says:
Competitiveness has NOTHING to do with keeping compranies in the US? What exactly do you think the competition IS for best looking secretary? My God you are so stupid it is just painful. What it is basically saying is the US is the most business friendly country in the WORLD. If you are too stupid to see that being the number one country in the entire world is a pretty good reason to be here then you are just a moron. You wont believe anything unless Rush tells it to you. Also
http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2008/07/07/mccain-trickle-down/
First, U.S. corporate taxes are in line with the rest of the world’s, according to a recent U.S. Treasury report. The effective tax rate on equipment financed by equity is 24 percent, the same as the G-7 average. The rate on equipment financed by debt is minus 46 percent, meaning that the government actually subsidizes these investments rather than taxing them.
Second, corporate gains are not trickling down to workers. Corporate profits are now near all-time highs: In 2005, they exceeded 13 percent of the economy for the first time since 1966
You are brainwashed and dont even know what you want to argue. You have been spanked and are just rambling incoherently at this point. Spewing whatever ignorant argument that floats to the top of your empty head even when it doesnt come close to making sense. You are truly pathetic
August 22nd, 2009 at 4:52 amThe Republicans don’t want health care for America. They want another terror attack.
August 22nd, 2009 at 5:26 amWingnuts, name one thing you have been correct about in the last 100 years. You’ve never been right about anything.
It’s sort of pointless to ask a group a question like that when they still believe that having segregation was right or arguing with them that regardless, it was unsustainable.
August 22nd, 2009 at 8:40 amRepublicans must have been right about something in the last 100 years. I can’t think of anything offhand, but there must have been something.
August 22nd, 2009 at 9:11 amWiz: “There is a lot of agony about how Obama is blowing it over the health care debate. I think the Republicans are blowing it. Their extreme negativity is going to backfire, they think that their success will be tied to Obama’s failure. I find it is rarely a good bet to count on some elses failure, especially with someone as smart of Obama.”
I ma pretty sure I’ve seen this comment word for word posted on another site. Huffpo I think. Are you cutting and pasting?
August 22nd, 2009 at 9:18 amIn the end, Baucus will be hung out to dry by the repiggies.
If his repiggie friends win the health care battle, they would then use his losing position as an Achilles heel with which they could defeat him for re-election.
In additiion, Baucus would receive virtually no money nationally from Dems and progressives, who will remain furious at him for decades for his perfidy.
There is still a window of opportunity for Baucus to see the light, and to help shoulder the task of getting real health care reform done in this nation, with a strong provision, either public option or single-payer, for the millions of uninsured.
Baucus should realize that no repiggie will contribute to his re-election campaign, no matter his vote on the health care legislation.
Repiggies are all about power and taking care of their own top dogs.
Screw the repiggies, and screw the teabagger trash.
Again, the Dems have the majority in both houses of Congress to get this done.
They need to butch up, and they need to own that power and use it.
Don’t worry about the repiggies. They only understand a 2 x 4 across the head.
August 22nd, 2009 at 9:29 amEl Bruce says :
We’re going to do what we can to make sure our President stands up to his stated ideals during his term, instead of waiting until he’s out and then projecting our insecurities on the next guy.
El Bruce, I’m glad to see your response to this. I’ve been wondering why I haven’t seen much response to this deal from our side. I kept thinking I would see something explaining how this could be helpful, but I haven’t. I’m glad to know I’m not alone in opposition to it.
August 22nd, 2009 at 10:11 amLevi the Dungbeetle says:
——————————————————————————–
Republicans must have been right about something in the last 100 years. I can’t think of anything offhand, but there must have been something.
Thanks for that. I was feeling really down just now after dealing with overwhelming major idiocy dealing with wingnut lies and basic non-human over healthcare on another blog. That brigtened me up.
August 22nd, 2009 at 11:20 amCan anyone come up with anything in history from child-labor to the Iraq war, they’ve been “right” about? Even “right”-wing is incorrect.
August 22nd, 2009 at 11:26 amWhy can’t the middle political american see throughthisrepublican BS? It’s obvious that the GOP is the Craftsman tool of corporate America. They definitely do not work for the voters and NEVER will. It’s time to put them to bed and ignore what they are doing and vote for health care reform along democratic lines. Dem’s in Congress: GET IT DONE.
August 22nd, 2009 at 11:41 ambut he is committed to working with them to achieve their goals on a bi-partisan basis…
August 22nd, 2009 at 11:56 amA LEADER MUST SUPPORT THE TEAM AT LEAST AS MUCH AS THE TEAM SUPPORTS HIM
Please forgive me for using a sports analogy. If the head coach of FC Barcelona deferred to the opposing players and or malcontents on his own team as much as President Obama is pointlessly/counterproductively deferring to obstructionist Republicans and Blue Dog Democrats, he would be fired on the spot for undermining the loyalty, hard work and morale of the players on his team who would run through walls for him if he asked them to. The “players” most willing to run through walls for President Obama are the progressive/liberal Democrats.
If President Obama doesn’t STOP talking about people like Grassley and Bacchus as if they were revered members of HIS TEAM, he’ll lose the respect of the players who played their hearts out to win his presidency.
President Obama’s polling numbers have fallen because HE isn’t being as loyal or as aggressive in trying to WIN the fight for legitimate health care/insurance reform as the CORE players on HIS REAL TEAM are!
If he fails to get AT LEAST a STRONG PUBLIC OPTION passed, HE will have squandered the opportunity of our lifetime to make a “genuine improvement” in the quality of life of millions of struggling American families in a foolish attempt to “persuade” corporatists to grow a conscience, and teabaggers, birthers and deathers will take credit for defeating what they will describe as a “weak-kneed Socialist Democrat”.
August 22nd, 2009 at 12:42 pmAll Montana progressives need to make office visits with him and make sure he’s reminded that the Grassleys of this world won’t be satisfied with anything that’s not their way.
August 22nd, 2009 at 1:01 pmIdiot troll,
You continue to mention state tax. What does this have to do with keeping jobs in America? 0-12% is much of a variable, 2/3 of corporations pay nothing.
Why don’t you focus of making a success out of your S corp instead of obsessing over what republicans want you to obsess about — taxes as a make-or-break scenario. The math that you have to lay off people because you don’t like the tax is artificial and political in nature. If you don’t know whether you properly hire or let someone go, because you’re fixated on taxes, perhaps you have no business running a business.
Plenty of ventures throughout our history have let nothing stand in their way to succeed. Google has so much money they don’t know what to do with it. Microsoft changed American households. In small business, it still about simple success. If you run on a good business model, you can’t be overcome by something as petty as a tax.
You still haven’t addressed the points, by the way. You’re still running a deficit.
August 22nd, 2009 at 1:15 pmGonna need something non-partisan of a link, by the way. AEI doesn’t stand a chance.
August 22nd, 2009 at 1:17 pmwhat the repiglizan wouldn’t do to kill something, anything at this point! Their fangs are dripping and their claws are in deep. In their deluded state they would interpret the killing of health care reform as a mandate with the people. This must never happen.
August 22nd, 2009 at 3:24 pmI think repiglizan trolls just don’t like to loose a legislative decision. Society on the other hand accepts it as a necessary part of democracy that no one gets exactly what they themselves on every issue.
Same for all Repigs – plus deep seated hatred of some sort, madness, brainwashing, ignorance, greed, power. They all add up to a circus of horrors – i wonder what it would be like to be on the inside – to be one of them… shudder.
The pundits are aware of the damage they are inflicting to the truth, to honesty, to the MSM, but they’ve slipped inside a political ‘event horizon’ and cannot return to this universe ever again – except perhaps in another political life time.
August 22nd, 2009 at 3:45 pmThe health care plan is like a snake. You have to cut the head off to kill it.
August 22nd, 2009 at 5:27 pmBig talk for a snake with it’s head already seperated from it’s body.
That’s exactly how I feel about conservatism, it’s like a snake.
August 22nd, 2009 at 6:12 pmGee, Senator Baucus (D-Lobbyists and Health insurance companies — look up FEC filings), you think?
Just because MONTHS ago the GOP leadership said that they wanted health care reform to be trashed? Just because (assuming he wasn’t lying recently) Charles Grassley said he told you months ago that he had no intention of negotiating in good faith and probably would not vote for his own bill?
Time and time again since before Inauguration Day, the GOP and their broadcasting colleagues has made it clear that attempting to “negotiate” with them was going to be like negotiating with Hamas.
And you’re only NOW catching on? And you expect people to believe that? How stupid do you think we are? (That is not a rhetorical question.)
August 22nd, 2009 at 6:37 pmconservative guy says:
YOU are like a piece of dogshit. Only smellier stupider and more disgusting to be in the presence of
August 22nd, 2009 at 8:50 pmMcWars
Just admit it. You don’t have a clue when it comes to taxes.
Both you are EugeneDebs are clueless when it comes to taxes.
Since you just can’t grasp the idea then maybe this will help you understand it better though I don’t see either one of you being able to understand anything when it comes to bueiness.
Los Angeles is cutting taxes on business to draw companies into L.A.
August 22nd, 2009 at 11:17 pmBut it doesn’t work right.
http://www.ask.com/bar?q=cutting+business+tax+to+help+business&page=1&qsrc=2417&ab=2&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.labusinessjournal.com%2Findustry_article.asp%3FaID%3D73023775.8157491.1811147.65985302.86572102.156%26aID2%3D139310%26cID%3D8
EugeneDebs says:
“U.S. corporate taxes are in line with the rest of the world’s, according to a recent U.S. Treasury report.”
To start with I didn’t know there was more then one world but anyway.
Your claim is so wrong that it is funny.
U.S. corporate tax rate is higher than the average rate among non-U.S. OECD nations—and roughly 50 percent higher than that of a mid-ranked country such as Sweden.
August 22nd, 2009 at 11:36 pmWe are only second to 1 country and that is Japan. But then again as I have said before you have no clue when it comes to taxes you just go with what you are told. Like your 2/3rds of Corporations not paying taxes. Well they do pay taxes no matter how you want to try and spin it. If they don’t pay Corporate taxes they still pay taxes and that is where you and McWar can’t figure it out. You just want to believe your liberal media because then you have a reason to be mad at the big bad corporations.
If you had any knowledge of how a corporation worked either of you then you wouldn’t be saying what you are saying.
A business is there to do one thing and that is to make money. WHen you do your taxes at the end of the year you try to get as much of your money back as you can. There is no difference. The problem is that your liberal media isn’t telling you the whole story. But then if they told you the whole story you wouldn’t have a reason to be mad at the big bad corporations and they wouldn’t be able to get you to support their interest.
You want to know why 2/3rds of corporations maybe you will be able to figure it out from this.
http://www.ask.com/bar?q=how+many+corporations+don%27t+pay+taxes&page=1&qsrc=0&ab=2&u=http%3A%2F%2Fgenxfinance.com%2F2008%2F08%2F20%2Ftwo-thirds-of-corporations-dont-pay-taxes-nothing-more-than-political-hogwash%2F
EugeneDebs
My mistake that link shows that the US is the second highest in Corporate taxes and that it is NOT competitive. The link for showing you why 2/3rds don’t pay corporate taxes is here.
http://www.ask.com/bar?q=how+many+corporations+don%27t+pay+taxes&page=1&qsrc=0&ab=2&u=http%3A%2F%2Fgenxfinance.com%2F2008%2F08%2F20%2Ftwo-thirds-of-corporations-dont-pay-taxes-nothing-more-than-political-hogwash%2F
August 22nd, 2009 at 11:42 pmoutlaw. My GOD you are so stupid it is just pathetic
the world’s, according to a recent U.S. Treasury report.”
To start with I didn’t know there was more then one world but anyway.
Your claim is so wrong that it is funny.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
See when a word is followed by an apostrophe and an s that means belonging TO not plural. Most people learn this in second grade. You are so stupid you would embarass most second graders. No I am not wrong you are just stupid. SO stupid you linked to a finance sites opinion about taxes as IF that would prove your point. Here is a treasury report which refutes your propagandistic idiocy
http://www.treas.gov/press/releases/reports/hp749_approachesstudy.pdf
It says that the CIT is an incomplete picture and that we get LESS of our GDP in corporate taxes than the average OECD country due to increased depreciation allowance and specific industry special tax provisions. We know. Rush told you to think this so you are obligated to pretend it makes sense but the Treasury says when the ENTIRE picture is taken into account not the simplistic talking points that you are confined to since you are too stupid to understand anything more complicated, we are in line with the rest of the OECD countries.
Then again what am I doing. Anyone too stupid to know what an apostrophe means isnt going to understand nuances like this. I may as well be talking ancient Sumerian to my goldfish. Look you are a moron. The FACT you are too stupid to understand simple facts isnt a reflection on those facts it just means you are STOOPID
August 22nd, 2009 at 11:57 pmHey MORON the apostrophe, its known as a possesive. Adult education look into it. You will always be stupid but MAYBE you wont humiliate yourself QUITE so often
August 22nd, 2009 at 11:59 pmEugeneDebs
To start with you are trying to use a report that is 2 years old. Sorry nice try.
I have finally figured it out. The reason you libs call people names isn’t because they are wrong it is because of 2 reasons.
1. Your little dream was proven wrong.
2. The part that really drives you mad is that it was a conservative that showed it to you.
Common Sense sould tell you that if a country has the second highest corporate tax that business from other countries wouldn’t want to move there.
The sad part to the whole thing is that China, Canada, the Czech Republic, Korea, and Sweden all figured it out and you are to dumb to.
By the way you make it to easy to push your button and get you going. But facts are facts the US’s Corporate tax is keeping Business away from this country.
Oh yeah what did it say at the bottom of that link.
“U.S. lawmakers must take note of these global trends and take steps to make the U.S. corporate tax system competitive with its major trading partners. If they don’t, we risk continuing to fall behind in the global race to attract capital, jobs, and economic growth,”
Well look at that it says that the US will CONTINUE TO FALL BEHIND THE GLOBAL RACE TO ATTRACT CAPITAL, JOBS, AND ECONOMIC GROWTH. Sure sounds like what I was saying about Corporate taxes are making companies leave. But then what do I know I am just a Republican troll right. To bad you are stuck on that Democratic kool-aide and can’t see what is really going on.
August 23rd, 2009 at 9:12 pm