Lieberman: ‘There’s No Reason’ To Deal With The Uninsured Until After The Recession
Lieberman: ‘There’s No Reason’ To Deal With The Uninsured Until After The Recession
Last week, Sen. Mike Enzi (R-WY), the most conservative member of the so-called bipartisan “Gang of Six” working on the Senate Finance Committee’s health care bill, stated that he preferred that Congress deal with reform incrementally. “I think the only way it will happen is we need to break it down into smaller parts than we have now and put it through one at a time,” he said.
Today on CNN, Sen. Joe Lieberman (CT), an Independent who caucuses with the Democrats, embraced Enzi’s idea. “Great changes in our country often have come in steps. The Civil Rights movement occurred, changes occurred in steps,” he argued. Lieberman added that Congress should address the nearly 50 million uninsured at some point down the road:
LIEBERMAN: Morally, everyone of us would like to cover every American with health insurance but that’s where you spend most of the trillion dollars plus, or a little less that is estimated, the estimate said this health care plan will cost. And I’m afraid we’ve got to think about putting a lot of that off until the economy is out of recession. There’s no reason we have to do it all now.
Later, host John King asked Lieberman if he would vote with the Democrats if the reconciliation process is used to pass health care. “I think it’s a real mistake to try to jam through the total health insurance reform,” Lieberman said, adding, “It’s just not good for the system. Frankly, it won’t be good for the Obama presidency.” Watch it:
Noting that the insured currently pay for the uninsured through rising premiums, Sen. Ben Cardin (D-MD) challenged Lieberman’s approach. “We’ve got to bring down the cost of health care,” he argued. “It’s difficult to do that by ignoring those who don’t have health insurance today.” A New York Times editorial today agreed:
If nothing is done to slow current trends, the number of people in this country without insurance or with inadequate coverage will continue to spiral upward. That would be a personal tragedy for many and a moral disgrace for the nation. It is also by no means cost-free. Any nation as rich as ours ought to guarantee health coverage for all of its residents.
Yet, Lieberman still sides with the Republicans on health care reform. “Joe Lieberman is not some right-wing nutcase,” Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV) said last November defending Lieberman against anger over his support for John McCain’s candidacy for president. “Joe Lieberman is one of the most progressive people ever to come from the state of Connecticut.”
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Lieberman:
“I’m afraid we’ve got to think about putting a lot of that off until the economy is out of recession. There’s no reason we have to do it all now.”
Perhaps someone should point out to Holy Joe the the British government launched the National Health Service — a far more ambitious program than anything bandied about currently in Washington – in 1948.
Amidst the destruction left by the War, with its industrial base largely reduced to rubble, owing the United States a war debt that would not be repaid until almost sixty years later, the British government designed and implemented a single-payer system to cover all of its citizens, a system that is still functioning and very popular today.
Holy Joe once again is doing the bidding of his corporate sponsors. (Connecticut IS the home of a large part of the insurance industry, is it not?) That buyer’s remorse for Connecticut voters sure has some staying power, don’t it?
August 23rd, 2009 at 11:18 ammorning ralph…It is morning isn’t it…
August 23rd, 2009 at 11:19 am“Joe Lieberman is one of the most progressive people ever to come from the state of Connecticut.”
Sen. Reid meant to follow that up with “…with the exception of EVERY Democrat and some Republicans in the state.”
August 23rd, 2009 at 11:27 amChristopher Shays is more genuine and considerate of Democrats views. Is Harry Reid losing his mind or just his common sense?
morning dbadass… it’s morning here on the west coast, so, yes.
August 23rd, 2009 at 11:27 amIt’s an hour per 15 degrees of longitude this way and it was a late night of goofiness so I am just pulling it together here…Now as to Leiberman…
August 23rd, 2009 at 11:36 amlieberman is not a dem, reid. He’s a overt repug.
We can’t fix the economy if the healthcare reform isn’t passed.
I hate this slimy, backdoor repug.
August 23rd, 2009 at 11:38 amJuck Foe Lieberman.
August 23rd, 2009 at 11:40 amMy, my. “Let them eat cake,” eh, Joe…?
Or, perhaps “Are there no prisons? Are there no workhouses?” was what you meant to say…
August 23rd, 2009 at 11:41 amJoe Lieberman is to Republicans, as Republicans are to cesspool scum.
August 23rd, 2009 at 11:42 am“Great changes in our country often have come in steps. The Civil Rights movement occurred, changes occurred in steps,” he argued.
It happened in steps only because of the resistance of reactionary tools like you, Joe. Progress occurs in “steps” because it has to be fought over every inch–because of reactionary tools like you, Joe.
August 23rd, 2009 at 11:42 amI have zero respect for this POS.
Who would Jesus tell to just go away and die?
If Joe thinks ‘Too bad for them’ then Joe should drop his health care plan and wish for the best.
Scum Bag
August 23rd, 2009 at 11:44 amOT, but enjoyable. The Sunday serial at TheZoo:
The Supersizers eat the 50s
August 23rd, 2009 at 11:44 amHmm. Is Zooey spamming her blog?
August 23rd, 2009 at 11:46 amthe best cure for Lieberman running in 2010?…..just let him speak.
thanks Joe….we’ll be sure to tell your electorate that they should all eat cake until AIPAC gives the word.
August 23rd, 2009 at 11:47 amNice one, Zooey.
August 23rd, 2009 at 11:50 amLieberman is one of the criminals guilty of taking bribery money from corporations to buy his vote. He is just like every Republican, they are all part of a crime (C-Street) family, all on the take.
Nothing Lieberman says has any credibility whatsoever. He belongs in prison for his treason.
August 23rd, 2009 at 11:50 amSo let’s just make sure we never take that first step of reforming health care insurance, eh, Joe? There wouldn’t happen to be any major health insurance carriers located in your state, eh, Joe? Or have they moved off-shore now.
Guess who’s announcing that he’ll caucus with the Rs on this one?
August 23rd, 2009 at 11:52 amZooey, would you and various others quit knocking scum, be it pond or cesspool or swamp. Stand up for scum; scum is honest and brave and true compared to Joe Liebermann and the Rs.
August 23rd, 2009 at 11:53 amIncremental changes means it will never get done.
August 23rd, 2009 at 11:53 amgummble-bee-itch says:
Hmm. Is Zooey spamming her blog?
August 23rd, 2009 at 11:46 am
No, I’m spamming your blog. :D
August 23rd, 2009 at 11:56 am14.
Lieberman’s not up again until 2012. At which point, either Lamont or Blumenthal will whomp his ass.
August 23rd, 2009 at 11:57 amVirtual Pebble says:
Zooey, would you and various others quit knocking scum, be it pond or cesspool or swamp. Stand up for scum; scum is honest and brave and true compared to Joe Liebermann and the Rs.
August 23rd, 2009 at 11:53 am
I’m sorry…
**hanging head in shame**
August 23rd, 2009 at 11:59 amScum?
August 23rd, 2009 at 12:05 pmI prefer foraminiforous ooze…
First you can tell Droopy Dog that people are dying
everyday while he fiddles with healthcare,
http://lieberman.senate.gov/
Second, tell Mr. Most Conservative to think about
ALL Americans not just those that in the industry
that give him money,
http://lieberman.senate.gov/
August 23rd, 2009 at 12:07 pmbut that would imply something that is actually alive…
August 23rd, 2009 at 12:07 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
marwick says:
your blog link is bullshit.
August 23rd, 2009 at 12:13 pmnow why’d did joe LIEberman have to go and destroy my weekend like that? now i’m going to have to call his sorry ass first thing tomorrow morning to express my displeasure in the representation he’s providing for the people of this state.
August 23rd, 2009 at 12:14 pmI consider myself a progessive, liberal Democrat who is all for health care reform. But anyone who thinks this is a rich country (”…Any nation as rich as ours ought to guarantee health coverage for all of its residents…”)is sadly mistaken. If you personally were billions of dollars in debt and practically owed your continued existence to the investments made by foreign countries, who could at anytime bankrupt you, I sincerely doubt you would call yourself even well off, yet alone rich.
I don’t have a problem with the incremental approach as long as it isn’t being used as a stall tactic by the Republicans. I voted for Obama and I’m glad I did. But he appears to want to bite off more than we can chew in everything he proposes. He needs to fight the urge to be so impatient. I mean, he’s been in office all of what, 7 months? It’s going to take years to reverse the slide brought on by Bush’s fiscal irresponsibility. And personally I don’t think you accomplish that by piling on even more debt all at once.
August 23rd, 2009 at 12:15 pmWill Joe Lieberman use the same logic and try to stop the annual entitlement check in the billions of dollars going to Israel ? !
August 23rd, 2009 at 12:15 pmYou sound like a regressive.
August 23rd, 2009 at 12:17 pmMy little message sent to Droopy via his website:
—————–
…from your comments on CNN on Sunday:
LIEBERMAN: “Morally, everyone of us would like to cover every American with health insurance but that’s where you spend most of the trillion dollars plus, or a little less that is estimated, the estimate said this health care plan will cost. And I’m afraid we’ve got to think about putting a lot of that off until the economy is out of recession. There’s no reason we have to do it all now.”
However Senator, DON’T FORGET that many Americans will DIE without insurance and many more will LOOSE their coverage / go BANKRUPT while we “wait”.
This is a national crisis and a moral disgrace. You SHOULD be doing all you can to get this coverage, not stalling for a better day.
There is no better day than today.
August 23rd, 2009 at 12:18 pmThen you have a problem with the incremental approach.
August 23rd, 2009 at 12:19 pmFollow the links back to the troll’s source, and we find the American Enterprise Institute.
*eyes rolling*
August 23rd, 2009 at 12:19 pmand where was LIEberman when the previous administration was bankrupting our nation thus sending us into this recession with their war of choice? that’s right, he was hugging chimpy’s nuts
August 23rd, 2009 at 12:19 pmBTW troll, George W. Bush already bankrupted our kids and grandkids’ futures.
Where were YOU then?
August 23rd, 2009 at 12:19 pmZooey says:
Joe Lieberman is to Republicans, as Republicans are to cesspool scum.
Hey, some of my best friends hang around in cesspools once a week or so. ;)
August 23rd, 2009 at 12:20 pmFor anyone who lives in CT, please be sure to visit Lieberman’s office and tell him that you are not amused with his turning against real reform.
August 23rd, 2009 at 12:21 pmHarry Reid you are dead wrong when you say: “Joe Lieberman is one of the most progressive people ever to come from the state of Connecticut.”
August 23rd, 2009 at 12:22 pmHmm… marwick’s numbers add up to 106 million uninsured — over a third of the nation’s population.
And not a single one among them who cannot afford health insurance.
I guess that’s kind of the problem with presenting “overlapping” groups of uninsured as some sort of evidentiary contribution to the debate, huh? All it does is confuse things.
Of course, it’s entirely possible, even likely, that confusion is marwick’s primary purpose. Wingnuts win when they can obscure, obfuscate and obstruct. It’s all they’ve got.
August 23rd, 2009 at 12:23 pmAnd I really like how AEI and our right-wing friend thinks 50k a year is a comfortable enough living that one’s reluctance to pay 10k of that a year on health care premiums demonstrates some form of devil-may-care irresponsibility.
August 23rd, 2009 at 12:26 pmHere’s an op-ed from the NYT today, which provides a far more accurate estimate of who comprises the uninsured.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/23/opinion/23sun1.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1
August 23rd, 2009 at 12:30 pmYes, lets stop all subsidies and grants to private insurance until after the recession ends, Joe.
August 23rd, 2009 at 12:33 pmWhat’s another name for a McCain supporter? A Gee Oh Pee lying HYPOCRITE. Lieberman wears a democratic Halloween costume when it fits his needs, but reverts to his scummy nature when he patronizes his Fox venue. If that guy votes against health care reform, or supports any fillabuster to prevent a vote on this bill, he should be outed for the slime that he is. Oh yeah, don’t forget to wipe the slime from his seat when he gets up.
August 23rd, 2009 at 12:34 pmFrom winddancer’s link:
About nine million uninsured people, according to census data, come from households with incomes of $75,000 or more.
I wonder where marwick and AEI got their “9,000,000 Millionaires” figure? Since when does a household income of 75k make one a “millionaire”?
The article goes on to explain:
Critics say that is plenty of money for them to buy their own insurance. But many of these people live in “households” that are groups of low-wage roommates or extended families living together. Their combined incomes may reach $75,000, but they cannot pool their resources to buy an insurance policy to cover the whole group.
August 23rd, 2009 at 12:36 pmralph the wonder llama says:
And I really like how AEI and our right-wing friend thinks 50k a year is a comfortable enough living that one’s reluctance to pay 10k of that a year on health care premiums demonstrates some form of devil-may-care irresponsibility.
Good point, ralph. Here in New York, 50K a year is not all that much to live on though it may be more than enough for people living in other parts of the country. A dollar is not equal in value throughout the nation.
My wife and I currently have some kind of health insurance through our employer, but we really have no choice in the matter. Our employer wants us to have health insurance, but we don’t get to pick and choose what kind we want. Our employer makes all the decisions about which plan we get and every year they negotiate on our behalf. The coverage is considered (by them) as part of our compensation, and when the insurance companies raise the premiums, it is our employer, not us, who decide what we have to give up to keep it. True, we could decline the coverage the company offers and take the money to buy our own insurance, but try switching insurance companies when you have pre-existing conditions, as we both do.
The primary cause of rising health care costs, which is not being addressed in the day-to-day debates, is that our health care system is a for-profit system. Change that, take the profit motive out of health care, and the costs will come down. And why should someone profit off the sick and dying anyway? (I never hear anyone justify that, either.)
August 23rd, 2009 at 12:38 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
That will be hard to do in the face of all of your failures.
August 23rd, 2009 at 12:43 pmOh nooooes!! ThinkProgress is funded by CAP!?
Why didn’t we know that!?
August 23rd, 2009 at 12:45 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
If the costs of cartel hedge funds posing as health insurance companies double, as they are projected to do by 2020, it will cost some 23,000 a year for private insurance
The 90-year-old non-profit health care charity released an analysis of health care costs and forecasts that says employer-sponsored family plans will rise from an average cost of $12,298 in 2008 to $23,842 in 2020. -commonwealth institute
http://rawstory.com/08/news/2009/08/22/insurance-rates-double/
That would be nearly half of a 50k yearly income.
Other businesses will suffer as well when people cant afford other items.
August 23rd, 2009 at 12:49 pmThe troll has played the Hitler card. YOU LOSE.
August 23rd, 2009 at 12:49 pmarco says: I will come here and make fun of your stupidity.
Hitler was funded, in good part, by the private sector, igmo,
August 23rd, 2009 at 12:50 pmarco has ignorantly exposed just how afraid of blogs like TP the right really is. They “monitor” us. heh.
The link is called “think progress watch”
yep, we’re so stupid that you have to watch us. Truth is you are just scared and you should be.
August 23rd, 2009 at 12:50 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
So arco, perhaps you can explain where AEI got its figure of “9,000,000 millionaires” uninsured when the Census Bureau only lists 9 million who live in households with an annual income of $75,000? Either the total number of unisured is much, much higher than the 47 million the Census Bureau reports, or AEI is full of shit.
Someone’s lying, and I’m betting it ain’t the Census Bureau.
August 23rd, 2009 at 12:52 pmOh, I can see arco is only a parody troll. My bad.
August 23rd, 2009 at 12:52 pmarco does a very poor job of trolling.
August 23rd, 2009 at 12:52 pmirony, you just don’t get it.
You have a website set up to watch us. Apparently you do take us seriously.
LMAO indicates that this might be our old friend trajan. nes paux
August 23rd, 2009 at 12:53 pmWow, Arco uses the Hitler card on only his second post. And he calls us stupid.
Amazing.
August 23rd, 2009 at 12:56 pmHi arco
August 23rd, 2009 at 12:57 pmI have tons of time to waste… Wanna chat…
arco is quite uninformed as he/she/it has, apparently, been swallowing the Straussian neo-con myths for some time to get rid of he/she/its individualism and turn he/she/it into a uniformed lock stepper that works against he/she.its professed ‘core values’
August 23rd, 2009 at 12:57 pmSo arco after you end a statement with a middle school captial letter weirdo thing you might consider a goofball emoticon. It shows how grown up and superior you are…
August 23rd, 2009 at 12:58 pmTTFN…
The link is called “think progress watch”
Think Progress watch is something put together by Trajan and Pee. It has no backing and very little support even from its friends LGF2 [little green footballs 2]
August 23rd, 2009 at 12:59 pmlittle support?
August 23rd, 2009 at 1:01 pmDoesn’t the skanky chick with the bad teeth count?
While Lieberman is crying because of lack of funds and recession as he described it to support the ‘uninsured’, he is in every occasion pushes for another big and unwinnable war with Iran,that might cost US government hundreds and hundreds of billions of dollars.
Lieberman is for wars and Israel which has a socialized health care-thanks to endless US foreign aid- but not for heatlth of US citizens.
Democrats should not have kept this guy as the chair of Homeland Security Committee in the Senate.
August 23rd, 2009 at 1:02 pmXisithrus says:
The link is called “think progress watch”
August 23rd, 2009 at 12:59 pm
That is frackin’ hilarious! Pee’s TPW!
The home of “Libs haven’t denied being Islamo-Stalinists, so it must be true!”
August 23rd, 2009 at 1:05 pmOh my, Xisithrus, you give Trajan — er, arco a lot of credit.
You think the troll could actually understand what “Straussian neo-con myths” meant, let alone the beginnings of Straussian philosophy?
August 23rd, 2009 at 1:05 pmDoesn’t the skanky chick with the bad teeth count?
I notice that she is showing off a ring [support?] in one of the pictures, standing in front of fish tank, IIRC, filled with Gar….
August 23rd, 2009 at 1:05 pmMemo to Harry Reid:
August 23rd, 2009 at 1:06 pmI can think of at least one politician from CT who was more progressive than Lieberman. His name was Lowell Weicker.
And he was a republican. Back when that meant something good.
You think the troll could actually understand what “Straussian neo-con myths” meant, let alone the beginnings of Straussian philosophy?
Maybe if we equate it with Gar…
August 23rd, 2009 at 1:07 pmarco…? Is that all you’ve got?
We demand better trolls, TP!
August 23rd, 2009 at 1:07 pmA skank in front of a fish tank. Huh. Funny.
Maybe Trajan does have a sense of humor.
August 23rd, 2009 at 1:08 pmWhen will these fools realize that people are dying or being denied help and it isn’t about a money thing.
You know if these elected officials and their families didn’t have insurance they would vote it in pronto.
August 23rd, 2009 at 1:10 pmY’know, the way some of these trolls pop in, cut a fart and then split, it’s almost as if they had no decent points to support their bankrupt political ideas…
August 23rd, 2009 at 1:15 pmarco,
First of all, I freely admit I am wasting everyone’s time by responding to you. Everyone else feel free to skip thsi comment.
Second, you actually had to do “research” to find out that ThinkProgress is a project of the Center for American Progress? It wasn’t enough to look at the bottom of the page where it says the exact same thing?
Third, I have seen several people from ThinkProgress (and the CAP) on political talk shows discussing the issues of the day. How many people from ThinkProgressWatch have ever been on any of those shows (even FNC?) No intelligent person takes anything ThinkProgressWatch says seriously.
August 23rd, 2009 at 1:15 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Can you imagine if someone said years ago after the Jews were freed, “We’ll deal with feeding the Jews after the war is over and Europe is rebuilt”?
August 23rd, 2009 at 1:27 pmHow’s that tax payer funded health insurance going for ya Joe?
August 23rd, 2009 at 1:28 pmActually Marwick, those who refuse to hear the truth, refuse to understand the truth, and who listen with their fingers in their ears when the truth is being told are the Bush/Palin/Conservative supporters. Liberals are the ones telling the truth. It’s in our genes, but we do know it’s the conservatives who are the uneducated buffoons of America and they have a hard time with this. See?
August 23rd, 2009 at 1:30 pmmarwick didn’t know before arco told him that TP was funded by CAP?
Sheesh, I’m afraid marwick is far more stupid than we ever thought.
August 23rd, 2009 at 1:31 pmHi marwick.
can you explain the discrepancy I noted above, ebtween your claim (via AEI) that 9.000,000 of the uninsured are “millionaires” and the Census Bureau data that says that same number come from households that make $75,000 or more per year?
It seems like a big discrepancy, and you’ll really have to address it before you earn yourself any right to call yourself “someone telling the truth”.
Thanks.
August 23rd, 2009 at 1:32 pmIf it would cost a trillion dollars to trim the finger nails of every Jew in Isreal, you’d have Joe out there making it the most moral of issues on the planet. This guy just simply stinks when it comes to supporting the United States of America. If he stopped breathing we’d all be instantly better off. I vote Joe Liberman off the planet!
August 23rd, 2009 at 1:33 pmsez the fool who uses a right wing blog as a reference for his lies.
Who belongs to the party that doesn’t believe in science unless it is funded by exxon.
August 23rd, 2009 at 1:33 pmZooey, it appears that to our little friends, if they glance at the side of the web page they’re browsing, they get to say “I researched it”.
August 23rd, 2009 at 1:34 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
marwick,
Tell us more about what Progressives stand for.
August 23rd, 2009 at 1:41 pmmarwick says:
You’re just doing a hat dance because you got caught in a lie and you don’t want to answer Ralph’s question.
No big surprise, we expect you to lie.
August 23rd, 2009 at 1:41 pmralph the wonder llama says:
Zooey, it appears that to our little friends, if they glance at the side of the web page they’re browsing, they get to say “I researched it”.
August 23rd, 2009 at 1:34 pm
Apparently that’s how they research the issues, too.
August 23rd, 2009 at 1:43 pmThat’s why they were so surprised when they lost the election.
They thought 10 million votes that they lost by were only 10 thousand. You know, withing the cheaters margin of error.
August 23rd, 2009 at 1:46 pmmarwick, when I think of “someone telling the truth”, I generally figure they can answer a simple question about their claims.
You seem to avoiding mine. Care to take a shot at it?
(Oh, maybe “take a shot” is not the best expression to use with a right-winger these days…)
August 23rd, 2009 at 2:05 pmThe liberals are now either Blue Dogs, Independents, or moderate Republicans.
August 23rd, 2009 at 2:11 pm– and the conservatives are all libertarians…
marwick must be “researching” what Progressives stand for…
August 23rd, 2009 at 2:14 pmHow the hell do people like this get elected. There is no better time to be worried about the uninsured than when they can’t even afford to eat let alone try and keep from dying because of no insurance. Schmucks!
August 23rd, 2009 at 2:15 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Lets face it, next election cycle, Lieberman knows he’s toast, so he’s dancing to the republican beat as fast as he can.
August 23rd, 2009 at 2:19 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
This comment has been voted down. Click to read.
amokrunner said,
August 23rd, 2009 at 2:26 pmIf you want to live in America, you should learn to speak and write English.
This comment has been voted down. Click to read.
This comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Doom siren.. lieberman toast??
Isnt that same thing the left said when they tried to out him the first time?
August 23rd, 2009 at 2:28 pmmarwick says:
I don’t think you know what “liberals” really stand for. The Progressives have taken over the Democratic party. The liberals are now either Blue Dogs, Independents, or moderate Republicans.marwick says:
I don’t think you know what “liberals” really stand for. The Progressives have taken over the Democratic party. The liberals are now either Blue Dogs, Independents, or moderate Republicans.
•S: (n) liberal, liberalist, progressive (a person who favors a political philosophy of progress and reform and the protection of civil liberties) •S: (n) liberal (a person who favors an economic theory of laissez-faire and self-regulating markets) Adjective
•S: (adj) broad, large-minded, liberal, tolerant (showing or characterized by broad-mindedness) “a broad political stance”; “generous and broad sympathies”; “a liberal newspaper”; “tolerant of his opponent’s opinions”
•S: (adj) liberal (having political or social views favoring reform and progress) •S: (adj) liberal (tolerant of change; not bound by authoritarianism, orthodoxy, or tradition) •S: (adj) big, bighearted, bounteous, bountiful, freehanded, handsome, giving, liberal, openhanded (given or giving freely) “was a big tipper”; “the bounteous goodness of God”; “bountiful compliments”; “a freehanded host”; “a handsome allowance”; “Saturday’s child is loving and giving”; “a liberal backer of the arts”; “a munificent gift”; “her fond and openhanded grandfather”
•S: (adj) free, loose, liberal (not literal) “a loose interpretation of what she had been told”; “a free translation of the poem”
http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=liberal
Now it’s your turn to define conservative, moron.
August 23rd, 2009 at 2:32 pmdown a little but still 40 points above anything you have to offer……perspective, you seem to be missing it.
A few years in the wilderness, say 40, should help you to understand just how little you understand.
August 23rd, 2009 at 2:33 pmamokrunner says:
Dung eater… great way to change the subject.. afaraid of the
facts?
English is my 2nd language.
Teabagastani is your first.
August 23rd, 2009 at 2:36 pmYou’ll forgive me Fred if I express some doubts as to whether that will be any help to him either.
August 23rd, 2009 at 2:36 pmMore of the conservative mantra: now’s not the time…
Funny, how they never say that for tax cuts…
August 23rd, 2009 at 2:37 pmmarwick, just admit it…You don’t know what liberal means other than the GOP knee-jerk definition: anyone who opposes us…
August 23rd, 2009 at 2:38 pmUCSBKitty says:
marwick, just admit it…You don’t know what liberal means other than the GOP knee-jerk definition: anyone who opposes us…
Marwick ran away once I laid him out in 103.
August 23rd, 2009 at 2:43 pmPublic Health Insurance would probably boost the Country out of our “Recession” in record time. But I guess it wouldn’t make THE RICH RICHER, so buh-bye!
August 23rd, 2009 at 2:55 pm50. arco says: It’s like being funded by Hitler.
LMAO
August 23rd, 2009 at 12:47 pm
Probably the laugh of a gibbering boob standing in the corner in an asylum in a really old documentary movie. Sorry, arco, nothing here, at this site, you and your rightie friends excepted, is “like being funded by Hitler”. Nothing, nada, zip, zero. Go peddle your braincheese elsewhere.
August 23rd, 2009 at 2:56 pmamokrunner,
Que l’autre langue vous parlent-elles ?
¿Qué la otra lengua usted habla?
Was sprechen andere Sprache Sie?
August 23rd, 2009 at 2:57 pmIntrepid says:
Marwick ran away once I laid him out in 103.
OF course he would! In his world, Chuck Hagel became a liberal when he spoke out against the Iraq War. Scott McClellan is probably a liberal now, as is Tom Ridge. They don’t know what libertarian means either, because strangely enough, conservatives are claiming to be them all this time…
August 23rd, 2009 at 2:57 pmThose may be the actual costs you face… emphasis on “may be“. (Your posture on arrival suggests that whatever you say should be taken with a shaker of salt.)
My wife and I were not able to find health care for under $500 a month… and that was simply coverage for catastrophic. Deductibles of thousands of dollars, limited coverage, no wellness, no dental, no vision…
Your own experience (even if it is even genuinely reported here) is not necessarily generalizable to the rest of the nation, or to other’s situations. I know right-wingers love to use anecdotal evidence to “prove” their points, but in the real world, in the Reality-Based Community™ it doesn’t work that way.
August 23rd, 2009 at 2:57 pmHere they go again.
When will the righties learn that you get less than no traction from telling people that their problems aren’t important?
cf. Phil Gramm and his Nation of Whiners.
When you try to game a number llke that, you may think you’ve triumphed. Another lib lie refuted! But that’s because you’re in a bubble.
Here’s the real number: EVERY middle class family in America has either:
1) lost their insurance;
2) incurred a huge debt even though insured;
3) has a close friend or relative who’s gone through 1) or 2)
4) had their coverage curtailed or thir co-pays raised radically in the last couple of years;
5) has, or knows someone with a pre-existing condition and is therefore uninsurable;
6) sat down and tried to figure out what they’d do f they lost their job for health care, and come up with no answers.
(I’m leaving out the aged, the poor, and veterans, who already have government health care. A lot of these folks have had the above, too.)
EVERY family.
If they’re not in trouble, they have family and friends who are–or are one step away from trouble.
And when righties run around ‘debunking’ the numbers, you’re saying to EVERY middle class family in the world that you think they’re illegal aliens, young idiots, or in it by choice.
(ah, the wingnut’s ‘choice’. ‘You made the choice to do X. I therefore have no responsibility for what happens to you.’ One of your most endearing traits.)
All those people, people scared for their future, sit there and watch you come up with reasons why you won’t help them, why you’ll try to stop others from helping them–why you don’t even think they exist.
That Nation of Whiners has voted you out of office. And will keep you out of office.
August 23rd, 2009 at 2:57 pm*not the world–just America. The rest of the world just thinks you’re insane.
August 23rd, 2009 at 3:00 pmUCSBKitty says:
Intrepid says:
Marwick ran away once I laid him out in 103.
UCSBKitty says:
OF course he would! In his world, Chuck Hagel became a liberal when he spoke out against the Iraq War. Scott McClellan is probably a liberal now, as is Tom Ridge. They don’t know what libertarian means either, because strangely enough, conservatives are claiming to be them all this time…
So sad. Sucks to be him.
August 23rd, 2009 at 3:05 pmSenator Palpatine needs to just STFU. What a jerk.
August 23rd, 2009 at 3:23 pmLieberman is so sickening that I’m ashamed to live in the state next to his.
August 23rd, 2009 at 3:35 pmJane E. Schneider says:
Lieberman is so sickening that I’m ashamed to live in the state next to his.
I’m afraid to live in the state above him but I do.
August 23rd, 2009 at 3:36 pmSooo. Lieberman was all for shock and awe when it came to illegally invading a country that never attacked us, but when it comes to the healthcare reform that people voted for last November he is suddenly all for a measured response?
Alec Balwdwin’s dog could do better job.
August 23rd, 2009 at 3:39 pmAlec Baldwin… father of the year
Dont hear me wrong.. we need healthcare reform. We need cost reduction for medication.. it’s too bad obama chose to side with PHARMA and NOT use medicaid’s buying power to reduce costs.
Regarding cost.. You bet, it will vary. I also know about pre-existing. I agree something needs to be done, BUT I DONT trust our goverment to run it. It’s funny how not the left wants to use Vetern Care as an example, yet under that asswipe bush, you did nothing but complain about it.
We can look at the post office as a model of goverment run efficiency.. its been in the red for decades. The same can be said about medicaid.
We can also look at the “touchy” issue why healthcare is bankrupt is many states. Illegal immigration – it’s documented, go and look on the net, that many border state hospitals have been closed or significantly affected by illegal care. Who pays the bill? You and me… your fooling yourself if you think otherwise.
Close the borders.. treat illegals the same as you would be treated if your illegal in their country. This is a RIGHT and LEFT ISSUE.
August 23rd, 2009 at 3:51 pmAnd yet you presumably trust your government to determine exactly who is an “enemy combatant” and who is an innocent tribesman.
Or at least, you probably trusted your government to do that when there was a Republican in the White House…
And, presumably, you trust insurance conglomerates to decide in the patient’s best interests. Wise choice there, cowboy.
August 23rd, 2009 at 3:59 pmSenate Majority Leader Harry Reid is trailing a top Republican challenger by 11 points ahead of next year’s election, according to a new poll.
http://www.lvrj.com/news/54286087.html
The source is Mason-Dixon Polling and Research .. they have not been labled as a right wing shop… waiting for proof otherwise.
August 23rd, 2009 at 4:01 pmWow, good point. You really know how to start off an argument with a hard-hitting, salient debate point.
Wow, you must have been screaming blue bloody murder when the Bush administration pushed through its Medicare Part D plan which forbade the government from using its buying power to reduce drug prices, huh?
Who’d have guessed that a right-winger would blame “illegal immigration” for the crisis in health care? After all, it worked so well when they blamed it for the economic collapse last year, and for unemployment before that, and for terrorism before that… Yep, it’s those damned brown people, init? Always the brown people.
Oh, and you forgot “tort reform”. Isn’t that a big one with you guys?
August 23rd, 2009 at 4:03 pmllama…
OK.. so obama’s goverment considers them enemies or else they would be released.. so what is the point of your diatribe?
I dont trust most of the republicans either.. most of the current politicians should be tried for treason. (Left and Right)
August 23rd, 2009 at 4:03 pmYou won’t find many Harry Reid fans on this site.
Try to find another button to push. (That’s what you’re doing, right? Pushing buttons? You’re certainly not offering anything in the way of coherent debate.)
August 23rd, 2009 at 4:06 pmAs far as trusting the insurance board.. at least, currently, you have a process to appeal.. try that with a goverment board, cowboy.
Let us also look at rahm’s brother. He is in charge of reducing costs. Look up his publications and tell me about boards and choices there champ. Get informed and look it up.. its all on the net, if you care to put down the koolaid. We are talking HIS publications and not some right winger spin.
August 23rd, 2009 at 4:06 pm#103
S: (n) liberal (a person who favors an economic theory of laissez-faire and self-regulating markets)
That’s pretty much the opposite of Progressives. The Progressives favor more government regulations.
S: (adj) broad, large-minded, liberal, tolerant (showing or characterized by broad-mindedness) “a broad political stance”; “generous and broad sympathies”; “a liberal newspaper”; “tolerant of his opponent’s opinions”
You are small-minded and intolerant of opponent’s opinions.
I enjoy reading what you write, because it is so simple to debunk.
August 23rd, 2009 at 4:08 pmDo you really need to be told the point of my “diatribe”?
I guess you’re not even as clever as I assumed. (And I didn’t assume you were very clever to start with.)
Okay… my point was that you don’t trust government to run a health care program (even though the government has been running one for almost half a century) yet you trust it with protecting us from terrorists and with spreading democracy at the point of a gun.
Your distrust of the government seems highly selective and predictably right-wing.
August 23rd, 2009 at 4:10 pmLlama…
I mentioned tort reform, I am all for it..As far as blaming all of this on illegals, not at all. Are they significantly contributing towards it, you bet.
As far as bush and not negotiating with medicare and Pharam.. you bet.. that asswipe should have used the buying power. The US market is being used as the bank account for pharma for R&D, we pick up those costs why other nations use their combind buying power to reduce costs.. we should as well.
As far as illegals.. the right is JUST AS MUCH AT FAULT.
August 23rd, 2009 at 4:10 pmmarwick says:
You are small-minded and intolerant of opponent’s opinions.
I enjoy reading what you write, because it is so simple to debunk.
August 23rd, 2009 at 4:08 pm
Whoa!!! I don’t know how you’re going to recover from that one, Intrepid. :-D
I can’t wait for the debunking to begin……
August 23rd, 2009 at 4:11 pm129. marwick says:…
#103…”a broad political stance”…
August 23rd, 2009 at 4:08 pm
Why you trying to drag Larry Craig into this, Marwick?
August 23rd, 2009 at 4:14 pmllama,
“Your distrust of the government seems highly selective and predictably right-wing.”
So.. if I catch your logic properly,, its all or nothing with you. All trust of the goverment or your a right winger.
From my viewpoint.. I see the facts that the post office – medicare and other goverment run programs are always in the red and run poorly. I dont see cost reductions and I pay for that..I prefer documented facts to conclude a decision. You apparently feel otherwise.
As far as the Military.. per my logic, they factually have done very well. As far as cost, I dont care regarding defense, becuase it is very important in my eyes.
August 23rd, 2009 at 4:17 pmI am sorry, but I have to question that definition of “liberal” posted above. “Laissez-faire and self-regulating markets”? According to that definition, Ronald Reagan was an extremely liberal president.
August 23rd, 2009 at 4:17 pm“S: (n) liberal (a person who favors an economic theory of laissez-faire and self-regulating markets)”
I don’t care what source this one came from, it’s completely wrong.
And so is marwick. Always.
August 23rd, 2009 at 4:20 pmamokrunner says:
As far as cost, I dont care regarding defense, becuase it is very important in my eyes.
So, you have no problem with privatizing our military and giving out huge no-bid, cost-plus contracts to companies that feed our troops rancid water and spoiled meat, and electrocute them with their shoddy work (as KBR did with their no-bid, cost-plus contracts)?
August 23rd, 2009 at 4:20 pmI just got done watching Sicko by Micheal Moore, had not seen it in a long time. Every American should at least take a look at this film before they are allowed to debate health care reform. This is a fight for the people’s right to affordable health care over the corporations ability to profit off our ill health. We claim to be a good Christian Nation, but I just do not see it in the way we treat each other.
Peace.
August 23rd, 2009 at 4:27 pmamokrunner says:
From my viewpoint.. I see the facts that the post office – medicare and other goverment run programs are always in the red and run poorly. I dont see cost reductions and I pay for that..I prefer documented facts to conclude a decision. You apparently feel otherwise.
There’s no evidence at all that the USPS is “poorly run.” They have lost significant income with business switching to email, people using direct deposit, etc. — in other words, the major switch to using the Internet over snail mail. They are required to provide service throughout the entire country, even the tiniest and most inaccessible location without being able to increase prices, and were recently prevented from ending Saturday service.
Medicare has been well established to be more very cost-effective, better than private insurance.
Now that you have different facts on which to base a decision, I am sure you will immediately change your tune.
August 23rd, 2009 at 4:29 pmNo serious analyst who’s not funded by AEI or the Heritage Foundation says that illegal immigrants are the strain on our health care system that right-wingers say they are. They are a minor factor, just like malpractice awards (less than 2% of health care costs. (In fact, after the state of Texas enacted caps on malpractice awards in 2003, none of the promised savings materialized.)
Both are just right-wing fantasies that feed into preconceived “common sense” ideas of the way the world works.
The foundational reason our health care delivery system is so fu(ked is that health care should not be treated as a consumer good, but as a public service.
Free-market capitalism works best when a producer of a product meets a consumer of the product. They agree on a price, and economic activity has taken place. When there are more consumers than producers, the price goes up and more producers get into the game. When the price gets too high, consumers stop purchasing until the value of the good meets the cost they’re willing to pay.
There is no such downward pressure on prices with health care. The consumer doesn’t have the choice necessary to choose among vendors, nor does he have the ability to choose not to purchase until the price is more reasonable.
The insurance industry has Congress in a full-nelson, and the playing field is entirely tilted in its direction. Insurance companies are protected, and patients are left to fend for themselves if their provider decides to deny payment for a procedure or just to dump them from their rolls.
Health insurance is a game in which, once the premiums have been paid and a claim is filed, the insurer has a financial incentive to deny the claim. Its incentive to provide the service it promised is much more remote. A “dissatisfied customer”? Big frickin’ deal! Who they gonna turn to? They’ve got a pre-existing condition! Screw ‘em!
Health care as a public good is much more in line with education (an educated populace benefits the nation as a whole) or law enforcement. The economy, the society, the general welfare benefits when the population is healthy, and the free market doesn’t work to provide that condition.
August 23rd, 2009 at 4:29 pmNot at all. you’re the one who said “I don’t trust the government to run it”.
You didn’t say “I trust the government to a certain extent”. Not “I have some trust issues with our government”.
You flat out said you didn’t trust the government to run health care. that’s pretty unequivocal, and to my mind, very right-wing in its anti-government thinking.
I see. So the documented facts that tort reform in Texas failed to lead to any cost savings at all probably has undermined your confidence in that potential direction of reform, right?
then I have done some good here.
August 23rd, 2009 at 4:35 pmmarwick says:
#103
S: (n) liberal (a person who favors an economic theory of laissez-faire and self-regulating markets)
That’s pretty much the opposite of Progressives. The Progressives favor more government regulations.
S: (adj) broad, large-minded, liberal, tolerant (showing or characterized by broad-mindedness) “a broad political stance”; “generous and broad sympathies”; “a liberal newspaper”; “tolerant of his opponent’s opinions”
You are small-minded and intolerant of opponent’s opinions.
I enjoy reading what you write, because it is so simple to debunk.
* S: (n) conservative, conservativist (a person who is reluctant to accept changes and new ideas)
* S: (n) Conservative (a member of a Conservative Party)
Adjective
* S: (adj) conservative (resistant to change)
* S: (adj) conservative (having social or political views favoring conservatism)
* S: (adj) cautious, conservative (avoiding excess) “a conservative estimate”
* S: (adj) button-down, buttoned-down, conservative (unimaginatively conventional) “a colorful character in the buttoned-down, dull-grey world of business”- Newsweek
* S: (adj) bourgeois, conservative, materialistic (conforming to the standards and conventions of the middle class) “a bourgeois mentality”
http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=conservative
You are brainless and ignorant. Isn’t it obvious that Conservatives favor corporations over the average person or are you still going to defend the flawed healthcare industry.
You are a moron. Plain and simple. You hate America and the American working class who can’t afford healthcare, plain and simple.
You failed to define conservative and liberal so I decided to smack you down with both.
Keep it up moronwick, I’ll smack you down with more facts.
August 23rd, 2009 at 4:40 pmAmokrunner:
1) If we had a system where everybody had to pay in, it would be easier to restrict illegal immigrants’ access to health care. Couple that with setting up a digital system of medical records it becomes far easier to identify illegals.
If you need a card to get emergency room service, and that card is keyed to a central medical history system, the admissions person would know instantly who the person is. Compare that with the horrendous mishmash of the present system.
As a result, healthcare reform could be a significant factor in immigration reform rather than the bogeyman you think it is.
And as for ‘not trusting the government–look, we’re not talking abstractions. we’re talking about a current system which is a criminal nightmare. It’s got to be fixed. And you’re advocating a system where we, the people, have less control in fixing it rather than more.
And if you don’t want the postal service running things, do you want the folks who gave us the Ford Pinto, I Can’t Believe It’s Not Butter, the Bradley Fighting Vehicle, Zima, credit card agreements, Fen-Phen, and the Back Street Boys to deliver good health care?
August 23rd, 2009 at 4:45 pmZooey says:
marwick says:
You are small-minded and intolerant of opponent’s opinions.
I enjoy reading what you write, because it is so simple to debunk.
August 23rd, 2009 at 4:08 pm
Whoa!!! I don’t know how you’re going to recover from that one, Intrepid. :-D
I can’t wait for the debunking to begin……
The blowhard (moronwick) is blowing nothing but hot air. Actually I’m not intolerant of his own opinions, I’m intolerant of him. The reason he is claiming that I am intolerant of his opinions is because he knows he has been proven wrong but although he has been knowingly proven wrong, he’ll continue to spill out more lies. Next he’ll call us fascists then I’ll debunk him with another dictionary definition, preferrably the definition of fascism. The fascism he obviously supports along with the rest of his Repiggie constituents.
August 23rd, 2009 at 4:47 pmmarwick says:
I enjoy reading what you write, because I am so simple to debunk.
Fixed :D
August 23rd, 2009 at 4:51 pmI just dont trust the goverment to make decision for us..That is my bottom line. So, the current adminstration says that we will be able to keep our current plan. I think that is BS and here is why. (Please counter I would like to hear why it wouldn’t affect choice.
My employer has already come out and said that it would take the goverment plan if it was cheaper. That being said, most companies will, do to supposed cost savings. What will that do to choice or staying with our current provider? It will eliminate them as a provider. They would lose most of their base due to businesses switching to a cheaper plan. Without a large base of paying customers, their cost would increase and they would effectively price themselves out of the market, that would leave only the goverment plan with no competition.
Not trying to flame.. trying to the counter point to this view point.
August 23rd, 2009 at 4:53 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
LIEberman is the Senator from Connecticut – an insurance rich state — no question where his loyalties lie — and it isn’t with sick people who don’t have health care.
August 23rd, 2009 at 5:00 pmVirtual Pebble says:
129. marwick says:…
#103…”a broad political stance”…
August 23rd, 2009 at 4:08 pm
Why you trying to drag Larry Craig into this, Marwick?
He’ll drag any known peedophile into anything as long as it conveniences peedo lovers like himself.
August 23rd, 2009 at 5:03 pmI enjoy reading what you write, because it is so simple to debunk.
* S: (n) conservative, conservativist (a person who is reluctant to accept changes and new ideas)
* S: (n) Conservative (a member of a Conservative Party)
Adjective
* S: (adj) conservative (resistant to change)
* S: (adj) conservative (having social or political views favoring conservatism)
* S: (adj) cautious, conservative (avoiding excess) “a conservative estimate”
* S: (adj) button-down, buttoned-down, conservative (unimaginatively conventional) “a colorful character in the buttoned-down, dull-grey world of business”- Newsweek
* S: (adj) bourgeois, conservative, materialistic (conforming to the standards and conventions of the middle class) “a bourgeois mentality”
http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=conservative
If I’m so simple to debunk, try to debunk this moronwick.
August 23rd, 2009 at 5:04 pmThen it was never your choice to begin with, was it? It’s your employer’s choice.
The point the President is making is that the government will not force anyone to sign up with the public plan. It’s CHOICE. In your case it appears that the choice does not belong to you either way. It belongs to your employer.
It will force overpriced private insurers to compete. That’s the whole point.
Duh.
Sure, if they can’t compete. What’s the problem? I thought you guys liked competition? Or is it only when the competition is rigged?
Sounds like a textbook description of free market competition.
But if the government can’t run anything competently, then why would private insurers think that they couldn’t out-compete the government?
It makes no sense to, on the one hand, claim that government can’t run anything in the black, and on the other, claim that they will put p[rivate insurers out of business.
No sense at all.
August 23rd, 2009 at 5:06 pmReferring to people who are in this country illegally as “illegals” demonstrates a certain kind of prejudice, and it indicates that the person making the comments probably has some deep-seated racism that they won’t admit to publicly.
People who are in this country illegally are often here to work for employers who will hire them illegally. We never hear the people who refer to them as “illegals” refer to the major US Corporations (and the small companies, too) that hire them as “illegals”, but they are just as guilty.
Any time I hear someone refer to illegal immigrants as “illegals”, I discount the rest of what they say. But that could just be me.
August 23rd, 2009 at 5:06 pmLet them eat cake!
I think Joe should give up his government health care program until all US citizens have programs similar to his.
August 23rd, 2009 at 5:09 pmamokrunner says:
I just dont trust the goverment to make decision for us..That is my bottom line.
Whereas I would rather trust the government to do something that benefits all Americans than trust private corporations that only worry about their own “bottom lines.”
August 23rd, 2009 at 5:10 pmveteran says:
Let them eat cake!
I think Joe should give up his government health care program until all US citizens have programs similar to his.
I think the people of CT should send a clear message to him that they will no longer tolerate his bs and vote his anus out.
August 23rd, 2009 at 5:12 pmHey moronwick. I’m waiting for you to debunk 151. What? You can’t? Thought so, micro-mind.
August 23rd, 2009 at 5:14 pmNever forget that Lieberman won in his race against Ned Lamont because the Republican Party threw their support to Lieberman over their own candidate. Without that support, Ned Lamont would be the junior senator from Connecticut. So, yes, we can very much blame the Republican Party for Lieberman still being around.
August 23rd, 2009 at 5:16 pmMarie says:
LIEberman is the Senator from Connecticut – an insurance rich state — no question where his loyalties lie — and it isn’t with sick people who don’t have health care.
Lieberman would favor the killer over the victim let alone favor the healthcare industry over the ones who can’t afford it.
He’s a conservapuke pure and simple.
August 23rd, 2009 at 5:21 pmWrong again amokrunner. There is nothing in any of the bills regarding insuring illeagle aliens.
August 23rd, 2009 at 5:23 pmLieberman today: Lets wait until we’re out of the recession before we mess with Healthcare Reform.
Lieberman after recession: Why do we need to fix Healthcare now that we are all “flush” with money and prosperity?
Kansas Sen. Pat Roberts promissed further investigations, AFTER, the 2004 elections. However, AFTER the elections he wouldn’t do the investigations because he (1)viewed the election of Dumbya as validation to NOT keep his word, and (2)claimed that it was “fallowed ground-already been plowed.”
Lieberman is no different than any other lying two-faced Republican.
August 23rd, 2009 at 5:27 pmamokrunner says:
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/F?c111:1:./temp/~c111zGrJt5:e176188:
August 23rd, 2009 at 5:29 pm“Wayne A. Schneider says:
Referring to people who are in this country illegally as “illegals” demonstrates a certain kind of prejudice, and it indicates that the person making the comments probably has some deep-seated racism that they won’t admit to publicly.
Illegal means what Wayne? That isnt racism.. society needs laws enforced to keep it functional. Wayne, I ask you to research the laws for illegals in Mexico, to pick one as an example.
Racist..that card is over used.
LLama,
As far as it being the employer’s choice, ummm where do you think 99% of Americans get their insurance from.. their job.
Use the logic.. its not a slam, its a simple business process. Our choice will be reduced simply due to the economics of a percieved cheaper plan. As a business goes, it’s their fudiciary responsibility to do that choice. My point is a goverment funded approach will eliminate “choice” unless they go with the “Pool” of providers as they are talking about now.
Big question:
Why aren’t the politicans using the same plan as us? If this is so great, why will they not use it. Let’s make it very simple. Let’s use the plan that they have for fed employees. Its a hybrid of both. I am all for that approach.
2nd Question:
Why wont enyone comment on Rahm’s brother role and his published approaches?
August 23rd, 2009 at 5:37 pmIntrepid…
THANKS!
Initially, they included it in the bill. As long as that piece, with no loopholes, is in place. I am much happier.
August 23rd, 2009 at 5:37 pmDo you have anything to say about 161, debunking your claim that illegals will also benefit from Obama’s healthcare reform?
August 23rd, 2009 at 5:38 pmamokrunner says:
Intrepid…
THANKS!
Initially, they included it in the bill. As long as that piece, with no loopholes, is in place. I am much happier.
You’re welcome. I thought I point that out since you were claiming that illegals will benefit from Obama’s healthcare reform.
Disregard 165.
At least you don’t act all trollish with your arguments although I disagree mostly on what you say. In fact you approach your arguments in a civil approach.
August 23rd, 2009 at 5:42 pmYeah, Joe, no need to rush for the 50,000,000 of your fellow Americans with NO insurance. Maybe we’ll all die before you guys figure out what’s best for the country. After all, you did such a swell job on that Iraq thing. I’m sure you’ll do what’s best for all of us…NOT. What a tool…and a fool.
August 23rd, 2009 at 5:42 pmAlthough many of the opponents of hc reform profess to be concerned about the budgetary impacts it apparently has not occured to them that the rest of world is watching to see whether or not we are capable of doing something about a problem which all forecasts will be responsible for a greater and greater share of our national debt.
August 23rd, 2009 at 5:47 pmIf you were a Chinese investor watching the reform effort go down don’t you think you would be less willing to invest in dollar assets?
Of course, the plan has to be able to reduce costs eventually, perhaps by having the government take on some of the costs now burdening small business (at a net gain to the country). Too bad the administration has done a poor job of selling this. But you can’t expect lenders to keep lending you money until you have shown that you have changed your evil ways.
Sounds like Joe believes that the problems will go away when the sea of printed money lifts us all up. Or maybe he is hoping that we will all stop being uppity.
i meant 162.
August 23rd, 2009 at 5:48 pmI can see it being told to FDR – we need to put the WPA on hold till after the recession is over.
We need to wait till after the recession to fix one item that is a tremendous drain on the economy ?
Not to mention, a single-payer insurance system would pour extra money into the economy – thus having some characteristics in common with the stimulus payments.
August 23rd, 2009 at 6:01 pmmarwick…?
Your debunking of Intrepid’s posts? Hello…?
August 23rd, 2009 at 6:08 pmThanks Intrepid…
Why has there not been any discussion on Rahm’s brother and his published viewpoints on managing cost on healthcare. He was appointed by Obama to run with HC and his background, needless to say, makes one wonder what he may implement..no trolling.. just looking for viewpoints from the left of center.
August 23rd, 2009 at 6:09 pmamokrunner says:
“Wayne A. Schneider says:
Referring to people who are in this country illegally as “illegals” demonstrates a certain kind of prejudice, and it indicates that the person making the comments probably has some deep-seated racism that they won’t admit to publicly.
Illegal means what Wayne? That isnt racism.. society needs laws enforced to keep it functional. Wayne, I ask you to research the laws for illegals in Mexico, to pick one as an example.
Racist..that card is over used.
Would you refer to Monsanto Corp as an “illegal”? Or any other giant corporation that hires people who are here illegally as an “illegal”? Or do reserve that term only for the people being hired?
When you refer to someone as an “illegal”, without any other clarifying words, you are calling the person himself illegal and not what he has done illegal. Are you just as upset about the Canadians who cross the border to work here illegally? Do you refer to them as “illegals”?
I believe that your problem is with the people themselves, and not with anything they have done, which they did with the help of employers who hire them illegally.
August 23rd, 2009 at 6:12 pmI hope this stupid moron, back stabbing idiot, burns in hell. Joe “the turncoat” would not know a good idea if it jumped up and bit him in the A$$. I wish someone would do away with him or better yet, let him do it do himself. This may get deleted as offensive and I wish it would not because I would just like others to know just what a self-serving fool that he is. Like GWB, the message got lost in the lies.
August 23rd, 2009 at 6:21 pmWayne.. there is 2 parts, as I see it to illegals. One being the act of sneaking into this country against its laws. The second to employing those illegals at substandard wages that affect non illegals. BOTH parties are at fault for this.
I am NOT for illegal immigration from ANY country. My family is of immigrant roots and we waited inline to get in this country legally. So, back to my point, if you break the law and sneak into this country, you shouldn’t benefit from the crime. That is my point.. I am not against immigration. I am against illegal immigration.. its very simple
As far as employing them.. there should be a card check and heavy penalties for those who employ them illegally. Simply enforcing existing laws would solve the issue.
If you think they do not affect those who are here legally, try again. I use to be in construction – drywall. Those wages have been depressed by cheap labor for quite a while. Is that racist? I dont think so.. it is very well documented.
“When you refer to someone as an “illegal”, without any other clarifying words, you are calling the person himself illegal and not what he has done illegal. Are you just as upset about the Canadians who cross the border to work here illegally? Do you refer to them as “illegals”?”
Wayne.. what do you not get about breaking the nation’s laws? If you are heere illegally.. your an illegal.. its very simple.. That is from any country, not just Mexico. Get in line like my family did.. wait your turn and do cut in line the illegals are doing..very simple premise.
When I mentioned Mexico.. that country in particular, it is not a two way street with immigration. Do a simple google and you will see the facts on that in particular.
August 23rd, 2009 at 6:25 pmBoy, looks like Obama’s “forgiveness” of Joe is paying off…
For the Republicans.
Lieberman, Grassley, Baucus, Enzi, in fact, the whole Senate, the entire GOP, much of the nation, etc., etc., is laughing their collective asses off at Obama now. The Senate thinks they can just roll over him. They don’t fear him, in fact, they’re laughing at him.
Great strategy. Hell, Lieberman appeared at the GOP convention for Christ’s sake and trashed Obama. The guy should have been thrown out of the caucus.
August 23rd, 2009 at 6:28 pmWell, amokrunner, because you persist in calling the person himself an “illegal” and not what he did as “illegal act”, I still maintain that your problem is with the people themselves and not what they did or did not do. I am sorry if I can’t make you understand where you are going wrong. Your anger is directed at the people themselves who are here illegally, not the companies (large and small) that hire them. If you truly believe that simply enforcing existing law will solve the problem, then why not address the employers who are breaking the law. Why not refer to the illegal immigrant employers as “illegals”? Instead, you refer to the ones they hire illegally as the “illegals”.
August 23rd, 2009 at 6:35 pmWow. Super tribal on all sides. Wonder what advances to human kind could occur if all this energy was directed toward creative output. There are a lot of ways to cut cost out of (and improve the quality of) the health care system without creating an expensive and massive solution. Vote this comment down coward.
August 23rd, 2009 at 6:43 pmRegular Girl: you’re exactly right. This bill is bad to the bad; massive debt (more so than what Obama has committed us to already) and no improvement
August 23rd, 2009 at 6:55 pmLieberman doesn’t care about Americans having health care coverage. But he damn well makes sure that the Israelis get their free health care coverage, courtesy of American taxpayers.
August 23rd, 2009 at 6:57 pmAs a conservative I like Lieberman.
August 23rd, 2009 at 7:02 pmamokrunner,
If someone that commits the illegal act of entering the country against the law, you call them an illegal. Do you call Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and Rove illegals for violating US and international laws against the use of torture, or is that reserved only for Hispanics?
August 23rd, 2009 at 7:14 pmHi conservative guy.
August 23rd, 2009 at 7:15 pmYou haven’t left already have you?
“I think it’s a real mistake to try to jam through the total health insurance reform,” Lieberman said, adding, “It’s just not good for the system. Frankly, it won’t be good for the Obama presidency.”
Translation: re-election could be a stake.
August 23rd, 2009 at 7:15 pmconservative guy says:
As a conservative I like Lieberman.
Wow, such brilliant logic. “My side is awesome.” The fact that “your side” is wrong about everything and evil besides doesn’t even have to enter in to your lack of thinking about the issues under consideration.
Politics isn’t like a sports team. Which side prevails has a real impact on human lives.
August 23rd, 2009 at 7:30 pmWayne A. Schneider says:
Referring to people who are in this country illegally as “illegals” demonstrates a certain kind of prejudice, and it indicates that the person making the comments probably has some deep-seated racism that they won’t admit to publicly.
People who are in this country illegally are often here to work for employers who will hire them illegally. We never hear the people who refer to them as “illegals” refer to the major US Corporations (and the small companies, too) that hire them as “illegals”, but they are just as guilty.
Any time I hear someone refer to illegal immigrants as “illegals”, I discount the rest of what they say. But that could just be me.
I agree 100 percent. Illegals is code name for those “dirty Mexicans.”
August 23rd, 2009 at 7:45 pmThis is crazy lets just deal with the uninsured after the recession??? WTF are you crazy I think he should be uninsured until after the recession and then we will see if his opinion will change!!!
August 23rd, 2009 at 7:45 pmSpending, when you are broke is stupid! The Democrats paid for a person to find out what could be done to fix health care. None of what is used in Obama Care! They came up with 8 things, one being to make all insurance agencies use the same forms! This alone would save 33 billion. In all the ideas they had would save a trillion a year. My question is why are these ideas not being used? Why reinvent the wheel? Why not fix Social Security and stop stealing from it? Why not put Congress on the same retirement and health care we are on?
August 23rd, 2009 at 7:59 pmGame of Life,
August 23rd, 2009 at 8:03 pmIt’s not prejudice, just not wanting to pay for people who are not in this country legally! People that come to this country should
1)Speak English
2)Know how or government works
3)Be required to have insurance on themselves and their families!
Why is this guy still relevent?
Let me ask a question to all those so called christians. When it comes to health care, WWJD?
I’ll tell you what he would do. Give free health care for all, regardless of race, creed, color, nationality, legal status, wealth, poor, man or woman.
Wake up you so called christians, you’re following the wrong party.
August 23rd, 2009 at 8:03 pmflea said,
Bush was the person that stole from Social Security to the tune of a trillion dollars. Don’t try to spin it into something the Democrats did. You Republicans own this grand larceny.
August 23rd, 2009 at 8:12 pmAs has been pointed out on many occasions, there is nothing in any of the versions of the bill stating that illegals will receive health care coverage. You are either woefully misinformed or willfully spreading lies.
Too bad the administration has done a poor job of selling this.
Oh please spare me. President Obama has done an excellent job in explaining healthcare reform. He isn’t responsible for teabaggers’ willful ignorance.
August 23rd, 2009 at 8:18 pmRacist..that card is over used.
Awwww STFU with that bs. Overused? Racist aholes over use racism, see teabaggers’ THM.
Get real.
August 23rd, 2009 at 8:22 pmThanks Connecticut for saddling us with this lying repug in disguise.
August 23rd, 2009 at 8:23 pmflea1989 says:
Game of Life,
It’s not prejudice, just not wanting to pay for people who are not in this country legally! People that come to this country should
1)Speak English
2)Know how or government works
3)Be required to have insurance on themselves and their families!
Yeah sure. “Illegals” should read TX’s new history books. Natural born citizens don’t know the government. Look at you.
August 23rd, 2009 at 8:25 pmFlea, how can you deny an infant healthcare? You are one cold-hearted mf.
August 23rd, 2009 at 8:31 pmHarry Reid has very little common sense, and he’s paid handsomely to not have any.
August 23rd, 2009 at 8:32 pmMarwick @ 26:
Here’s a more reliable source for your consideration. I know your time is very important so I’ll zero you in on the part that shoots your feeble attempt at spinning. Go to page 13 of the PDF file and you will find this:
Cited: Employment Policies Institute.
Source: http://www.epionline.org/study_detail.cfm?sid=122
PDF Link: http://www.epionline.org/studies/oneill_06-2009.pdf
We estimate that about 16 million of the population ages
18–64 reported as uninsured in 2006 are voluntarily uninsured
in the sense that their incomes are high enough
to enable them to afford a health insurance policy. That
leaves 22 million who are involuntarily uninsured—that
is, their incomes are below 2.5 times the poverty level, an
income level at which the purchase of insurance would
require considerable personal sacrifice. Thus, although
20 percent of the population ages 18–64 is uninsured,
only 12 percent of the population and 57 percent of the
uninsured are involuntarily uninsured. These are important
distinctions because those who choose not to be insured
are surely not in the same position as those who might place a high value on insurance coverage but cannot
afford to buy it.
This, unlike your “source” (could Andrea be a buddy of yours), EPI is a non-profit group that has experts, you know someone who knows what they’re doing, that dig deep into their studies and totaly ignore spin. You should try it.
August 23rd, 2009 at 8:32 pmThis proves that Lieberman is a Gee-Oh-Pee in the well. He is still trying to subvert and defeat Obama’s and 72% of the people’s Priority social agenda. The people of Connecticut must remember this guy for what he is unmasked, a lying agent of the GEE-Oh-PEE. He always will have Mccain’s back and now we are also seeing what a lying sackoshit McCain is. That resentful, mean ol’ coot who betrayed his country in Viet Nam, and now he wants to rewrite history on that front. Don;’t feel sorry for any of them.
August 23rd, 2009 at 8:34 pmThere are 545 people in Washington D.C. who run this country, the President, Congress, Supreme Court, etc.. Perhaps they should give up their GOLDEN benefits, until the 50 million uninsured, the 10% unemployed + the under-employed, the COLA-less S.S. recipients, and all the other marginalized groups receive their benefits. These 545 elite of our society, who are employed by we the voters and taxpayers, should be willing to WAIT until we receive our fair share. ;o)
August 23rd, 2009 at 8:46 pmThe biggest problem i can see with the current attempts at a health care bill is that there is NO TORT REFORM at all. Anyone who doesnt realize that TORT is the biggest cost in health care has their head in the sand, up to the neck. It all about the money, our lawyer/politicians of BOTH parties dont want to give up the golden goose that keeps on giving. The brits, canadiens, french, yeah ALL those countries that cover everyone DONT HAVE ANYTHING CLOSE TO OUR TORT COSTS, so you cant compare them to us. Put tort reform in, stop lawyers from getting 40% of the damages of the lawsuits and we can talk about real health care reform across the board and coverage for everyone without costs going up.
I am very disappointed that our illustrious leaders, they dont give a crap about reform when it comes to their money. No tort reform and no campaign finance reform. A stupid citizenry gets result befitting of their thought process.
August 23rd, 2009 at 9:07 pmHow can we say anything but ,”Joe you must go”. Are 1 in 6 Americans an insignificant number? We don’t have to worry though, Harry Reid defends him. Why would we Wonder why there is no unified front on health care for the Democrats? The leadership question must be addressed.
August 23rd, 2009 at 9:08 pmwayne,
“Well, amokrunner, because you persist in calling the person himself an “illegal” and not what he did as “illegal act”, I still maintain that your problem is with the people themselves and not what they did or did not do”
I have stated that the companies that hire the illegals should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. I consider any border hoper, black yellow green white, etc, to be an ILLEGAL. They are ILLEGALLY in the USA and most of them cause a net drain on our fiscal resources.
I will also state I am PRO IMMIGRATION – if its done LEGALLY.. those people are called immigrants and when they obtain their citizenhip in the USA, they become AMERICANS. If they come here illegally, They should be rounded up and deported…plain and simple.
Yes, if the businesses were to stop hiring illegals, it would reduce the draw to America signifcantly. It would be a great place to start. But the right and left cater to them for votes and cheap labour.
August 23rd, 2009 at 9:16 pmJoe Lieberman belongs at the top of the traitor tree. In addition, he’s been voted the “Most Santiminious Zionist in America” Award 15 years running.
August 23rd, 2009 at 9:18 pmconservative guy says: As a conservative I like Lieberman.
Im not suprised seeing that many cons like swilling the krazy kool-aid the eternal war/revolution bs the neo-cons are filling the cons with turning them into single brained uniformists for their less than democratic agenda.
August 23rd, 2009 at 9:23 pm“Levi the Dungbeetle says:
amokrunner,
If someone that commits the illegal act of entering the country against the law, you call them an illegal. Do you call Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and Rove illegals for violating US and international laws against the use of torture, or is that reserved only for Hispanics?”
DF,
My wife is from Mexico…my kids are half. As I have stated 5 times already… black white purple green white anyone who is illegal is just that. Who is being racist? Look in the mirror loser.
By the way.. try to seek health care down there.. open your wallet before your provided care if your not from there.
So much for being tollerant, loser.
August 23rd, 2009 at 9:23 pmI doubt if you’re still here, amokrunner, but I think this deserves a reply anyway.
The scenario you present — private insurers going out of business and thus reducing competition — only follows from a situation where private insurers are unable to adjust to a changed landscape.
It depends on an understanding that insurance rates are as high as they are now because insurance companies cannot operate at lower margins. If you believe this, then it makes sense to oppose health care reform, aside from the non-issues (illegal immigration, tort reform) that concern you. The status quo is the only way the system can work.
You neglect to give private insurers any credit for being able to adjust to meet the new conditions in which they will do business. See, that’s the whole thrust of the plan — to put the kind of competition in the marketplace that it currently lacks.
As far as your employer point, I have no idea what it’s supposed to mean in the context of our discussion. If you get your coverage from your employer (and you have way overestimated the percentage of the insured who get their coverage that way — it’s now about 62%, not 99% as you claimed, and dropping) then the choice has never been in your hands, unless your employer offers you a limited selection of plans from which to choose. Nothing you said above either refutes or modifies that fact.
August 23rd, 2009 at 9:27 pmAh. You are here. Excellent.
August 23rd, 2009 at 9:29 pmI can be tolerant without having to tolerate intolerance.
August 23rd, 2009 at 9:32 pmTwo questions: how is this relevant?
and, how is it different from here? Where does one go for free health care “without opening your wallet” in the US, other than massive free health fairs that draw people from surrounding states?
August 23rd, 2009 at 9:33 pmamokrunner, you still don’t seem to get Wayne’s point.
The illegal immigrants that you call “illegals” have done something illegal.
The companies that hire them have also done something illegal.
Yet you don’t call the companies “illegals”. Just the people. For you the companies have broader identities. The people are identified by their one act.
August 23rd, 2009 at 9:36 pmWhen it comes to health care, WWJD?
What they did when Jesus needed help. Allow the empire to nail them to a cross and die in the hot sun for their sins.
/snark
August 23rd, 2009 at 9:38 pmHoly Joe is working with Senator Cantor on giving billions to Israel as the US has stopped giving away money since Bush left office. Now plans are in the works to stop the US Policy of helping the Palestine victims and giving the money along with the money Obama wants to use for the Health Care Plan, to Israel. Israel has gotten use to the US giving billions over the 8 years of the Republican Control and now the Obama Administration wonts accountibility for all the money that is spent. Holy Joe might get the votes as Israel needs the US taxpayers money more then the US citizens need Health Care, right?
August 23rd, 2009 at 10:02 pmWell said, ralph. Thank you.
August 23rd, 2009 at 10:17 pmarco and marwick, we’re expecting this blog to have people with a competant thought process. Lets see social security – broke, Medicaid – broke, hum, Obama change- highest deficit in history – great change. Can’t competantly run their own program (only $1 billion) “cash for clunkers”, and were supposed to have confidence they can run $4 trillion in healthcare.
Well maybe if it passes we’ll see waiting lists of about 10 months for an abortion.
OH – I forgot, it’s Dubya’s fault. 2010 will be interesting. Reid GONE,
August 23rd, 2009 at 10:45 pmconservative ken, perhaps you can address the points some of us have brought up regarding each of the issues you mentioned?
Unless, of course, you’re simply here like most of our conservative visitors, to dump a turd on the floor and then leave…
August 23rd, 2009 at 11:00 pmconservative ken,
Suffice to say that like your good friends, arco and marwick, you simply do not know what you’re talking about. This is the primary challenge facing liberals – trying to convince people who will not accept facts from the reality-based universe. Oh, well, have fun on whatever planet you three are spending most of your time.
August 23rd, 2009 at 11:02 pmno, it doesn’t matter if we have confidence. Bush wanted tax breaks for the rich and he had the political support and that’s what he got.
the media Nimrods are trying to erode that political support by suddenly giving a rat’s ass what the people who don’t want it anyway have to say about it.
so, are they really going to keep wussing out until that support has been whittled away to nothing? that seems to be the plan. then they can say “oh gee, we did the best we could” and I’m supposed to whip out my checkbook and reward this.
The Loyal Opposition is going to sit on the hood of the car and not let it go anywhere. I, for one, wish they’d step on the motherhumpin’ gas. stop trying to please people who don’t want this anyway. it’s not like they appreciate it or anything.
August 23rd, 2009 at 11:08 pm……………I’m ready for the debate………..all I see as typical, is the platitudes, and left wing talking points. Lets talk about how all this euphoria is going to be paid for.
August 23rd, 2009 at 11:14 pm…….cage free, I think Americans are speaking their minds about their opposition to most of Obama’s socialist plan. Let’s not discuss the slide in his approval rating.
August 23rd, 2009 at 11:16 pmcage free brown,
Just out of curiosity, what does “The Loyal Opposition” mean? To whom or what are they being loyal?
August 23rd, 2009 at 11:18 pmLet’s ask Lieberman why he continues to support sending $7 million A DAY of our tax dollars to Israel in the middle of the recession, considering that Israelis already have free, state-supported health care for all and we, who are already paying their bills for them, have to pay our own as well.
August 23rd, 2009 at 11:20 pm……..so what, Mr Wayne A. Schneider, are the facts, that you self admitted liberal can’t get me to understand. I didn’t see it listed in your post. I must assume you aren’t prepared for a productive dialogue……………….
August 23rd, 2009 at 11:21 pmbeadew,
well said, I’m proud you continue to pay for your own healthcare – what a novel idea, no free ride, and I sure as hell don’t need to pay for yours.
August 23rd, 2009 at 11:25 pmconservative ken says, “I’m proud you continue to pay for your own healthcare – what a novel idea, no free ride, and I sure as hell don’t need to pay for yours”.
For the past 200 years, the only people in America who received a “free ride” are rich and powerful conservatives like Bush, Reagan, and Cheney.
Leona Helmsly said, “Rich people don’t pay taxes”. Ronald Reagan said, “Greed is good”.
August 23rd, 2009 at 11:42 pmdelafield……really……….is that the best that you have, look at the US Treasury figures, (remember this is the government figures) the beloved Federal governemnt can’t be wrong in you liberals minds can they? The top 5% pay over 50% of the tax burden. Now I thought we were going to have intelligent debate. Mr Schneide3r said earlier we would disuss facts, not quotes by Leona Helmsly.
August 23rd, 2009 at 11:54 pmIt’s all over…….NO FREE HEALTH CARE FOR YOU!
August 23rd, 2009 at 11:57 pmLIEberman is a POS, I will contribute to ANYONE running against him
August 24th, 2009 at 12:00 amdelafield…………..heres your post,
For the past 200 years, the only people in America who received a “free ride” are rich and powerful conservatives like Bush, Reagan, and Cheney.
I dont remember celebrating Cheney or Bush’s 100 year birthdays, let alone 200, and its good to know President (proud to say) Reagan is still alive.
Your wisdom enlightens us all.
August 24th, 2009 at 12:03 am………………..and by the way, rich and powerful only apply to conservatives, hum, I had not heard Soros was a conservative. He probably abides by different tax laws, although.
August 24th, 2009 at 12:05 amconservative ken,
Since I have a job I have to get to in the morning, I won’t be around to continue ignoring you in person. And since I’ve resigned myself to the fact that there’s a good chance that you’ll malign me while I am gone, knock yourself out.
I seriously believe that you and I operate from a completely different view of the world. I do not believe there is any common ground upon which we could base a discussion. Liberals are, generally speaking, altruistic by nature, while conservatives are, generally speaking again, selfish by nature. You and I have different aspirations and goals for humanity.
Good night.
August 24th, 2009 at 12:14 amWhat a coincidence… all we see from you is typical right-wing talking points.
I think Wayne actually pegged you pretty well when he said, “you simply do not know what you’re talking about.”
August 24th, 2009 at 12:22 amAnd, yes, citing George Soros for any reason (or, as you chose to do, for no reason at all) counts as a typical right-wing talking point.
August 24th, 2009 at 12:22 amthe Dems could use a HAL9000 and figure out how to do it and tie it all up in a pretty bow and every Republican would oppose it. the people on t.v. would say rude things about Lefites like me who don’t want to meet people who don’t want health care in the middle. I mean, where’s the middle with people who’ve gone off the deep end?
the Republicans could have got on board but they didn’t. if they really cared about costs – costs would be addressed. all they care about is banging their shoe on the table and screaming “NYET!”
August 24th, 2009 at 12:24 amgreat. go for it. just don’t pretend it’s the high road.
That’s interesting… because the top 5% also controls almost 60% of the wealth.
Seems like they’re getting off cheap.
August 24th, 2009 at 12:30 amWhen were you planning to start?
August 24th, 2009 at 12:30 amWayne A Schneider,
I have no intention of maligning you.
Its unfortunate you and I can’t debate. I believe we could have a civil one.
I take exception to one point. Conservatives are generous with their own money, liberals are generous with everyone else’s. As you might imagine I have many friends with similar values, and I find them to be very generous in causes that aren’t dark holes.
Socialized medicine is a noble aspiration. Not all aspirations are viable, and I have little faith in the government to oversee anything of a fiscal nature. I have little hope I will see any of the monies I have paid into Social Security all these years, and your naive to think you will either.
To believe we’ll see a different outcome with something as large as socialized medicine than what we have seen would be, what did Albert Einstien say, “insanity”.
You’re right we see things differently.
I am a productive member of society, and have a job as well.
August 24th, 2009 at 12:36 amralph the wonder llama, drug around by the liberal leash says:
——————————————————————————–
conservative ken says:
Now I thought we were going to have intelligent debate.
When were you planning to start?
You answer a question with a question. That has been tried before when you have nothing of substance to add.
You give me the subject, I’ll make you look like a kindergartner.
August 24th, 2009 at 12:40 amThanks CN.
And Juck you Foe.
Reconciliation.
August 24th, 2009 at 12:56 amOkay, so Sir Joe doesn’t believe reform should have anything to do with the uninsured. Who would it apply to, then? What sort of description does he (or anyone in the GOP) have as to what “reform” means?
August 24th, 2009 at 1:33 amSchneider said: Liberals are, generally speaking, altruistic by nature, while conservatives are, generally speaking again, selfish by nature.
Another liberal lie debunked. Sorry, Schneider, wrong again.
August 24th, 2009 at 1:39 amAgreed, Ken! But they don’t like the facts here, so they get funded by CAP to sell BS 24×7. I think they prefer to believe the lies.
August 24th, 2009 at 1:49 amLet’s take away Joe Lieberman’s insurance then have him go to the doctor and pay for it! How would you like them apples Joe? You are a cheater, liar and you belong to prison for treason. People in this country are tired of you and you scum republican corporate buddies. You all need to go to jail.
August 24th, 2009 at 2:08 amWahahahaha! I love watching the libs squirm. You know what’s coming next year in the elections and then all your lib plans are a washout. Can’t do it this year or next without Joe and the Bluedogs and that bothers the hell out of all of you. Your dreams are on a short leash and next year that leash gets yanked back hard and all we will hear is the gutteral sounds of choking libs. So scream and yell and curse Joe and the Bluedogs some more. See how far you get with that strategy. Just smiling at every lib comment I see here – loving all of you for making this the shortest lived lib victory in history. :) :) :) :) :)
August 24th, 2009 at 2:18 amLieberman: a shande für de goyim ?? ?????? !
August 24th, 2009 at 7:54 amPeople in this country need to get their facts straight and quit living live via hearsay. If we were altogether a whole lot more studious, we might not be where we are today with this healthcare nightmare. And our liberal thinking that damn near everything, including healthcare, is a right is simply bizarre. Of those noted in the numbers for not having insurance, very few are unable to either pay the bill for health insurance as a priority over other non-essentials, or view health care as more important that the non-essentials that they think are essential. So how big is this problem really?
Those countries like Canada and the UK have systems in place that run like the proposed system we are seeking to advocate. But for those who go beyond the news media and have actually lived in those countries and listened to the people, as well as the governments there, explain the tremendous number of issues they incur, and the impacts it has on their citizens, is beyond belief. Sure, our system has its issues as well, but does the answer lie in fixing what’s broke, or in fixing the whole system which clearly isn’t. We have the best health care in the world proven by the number of people who come from afar at great expense to them just to get treated here. And spending billions, and the Lord only knows the term “billions” doesn’t and shouldn’t mean much to non-tax payers, but for the rest of us it is wholly an incredible number, is nuts as only an “unthinking” group of “sheep” to the media and farther out than far-left group of ignorant people can be. If we all quit representing an “all about me” attitude and think forward in terms of what we are “dumping” on our children’s grandchildren, we might begin to realize that the purpose of government is not to provide everyone anything they want, or to make everything a right. Were that the case the government would be out of business before it ever got started. People you don’t need half (or more) of the crap you buy and in realizing that, maybe you will also realize that healthcare, a must, is well within your ability to pay for insurance. To all you immortals, hey, wake up, there is no such a thing; at least not on this planet. To those unemployed, quit holding out for the perfect job; in most cases it doesn’t exist either, unless you believe being a ward of the state is both satifying and perfect work. To those whom chronically live on the street, healthcare is certainly a concern, but mostly with regard to psychiatry; they need their thinking changed to realize they are useful and productive should they elect to go that route. So whose left? Virtually no one. Therefore, one can easily conclude, our problem is not one of catastropic proportions, but rather one of simple mindset. Let’s do the right thing and rearrange our priorities at home and leave the government out of taking that over too. Big government has done nothing but prove itself incompetent since its inception. That is where we need to elicit the people’s and goverment electorates to see reason to make reform. But as long as we continue to elect morons lacking in moral thinking and practice, and allow people to buy their way into Congress, as well as feed us with the stuff planted under mushrooms that tends to make a bunch of gullibles into believers and liberals into ridiculous rights activists, we are going to continue to travel down that road paved in stupidity, ignorance, and waste; and lest us never forget my favorite……fraud!!!
August 24th, 2009 at 8:09 amThere’s no reason to listen to Lieberman before, after or during the recession.
August 24th, 2009 at 10:48 amWTF??? What an asinine comment. Time for you to go back to your room Joe. Keeping your mouth shut is the best thing you can do for America.
August 24th, 2009 at 10:56 amGee, I wonder where his next job will be…probably as
August 24th, 2009 at 12:34 pma PR man for Aetna Insurance.
1. I wish all the progressives in Connecticut would
swamp Joe’s offices and voice their displeasure with
his obvious bias toward WASTING TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS
and USING OUR CHILDREN’S LIVES TO HELP THE BUSH CRIME
FAMILY MAKE BILLIONS OF DOLLARS FOR THEMSELVES AND
HALIBURTON… BUT DOESN’T THINK THE LIVES OF AMERICANS
ARE IMPORTANT ENOUGH TO ON TO FIND A WAY IMMEDIATELY
TO FUND A SYSTEM FOR OUR HEALTH!
2. HE doesn’t listen very good! Didn’t Obama say that
we need to stabalize our economy by making the cost of
health care AFFORDABLE…where people won’t go bankrupt
while trying to keep family members alive and healthy!
3. I hate him…and if there’s a G-d…and if there’s
a Hell…I hope him and all those who show SUCH
DISREGAURD FOR HUMANKIND WILL END UP IN HELL!
“Let them eat cake.” That’s been the Republican position all along. Way to stand up for your home team, Lieberman.
August 24th, 2009 at 12:57 pm#245 for the record, Americans are the only ones who claim America has the best health care in the world. We also have one of the highest infant mortality rates but I don’t hear anyone bragging about that.
Second, if you already have health care and you are advocating not having a public option then you have no credibility, none. Try going without health insurance for a while and I guarantee you you’ll be all for a government backed plan.
As far as dumping stuff on our grandchildren, theh LAST thing I’d want to stick them with is for profit health care!
“Therefore, one can easily conclude, our problem is not one of catastropic proportions, but rather one of simple mindset.” Tell that to the woman who died because she couldn’t get medical coverage to treat her cancer. Jesus.
You must have a nice clean, neat life where everything has a little place where it belongs. Nothing out of order, nothing out of control, everything spotless and spic and span and everything will be ok if we stop being lazy and pull ourselves up by our bootsraps. Unfortunately life isn’t like that, it’s runny eggs, sloppy, unpredictable and unanticipated. No matter how hard and how long some people work, no matter what they give up will it not permit them to afford a typcial family health plan. Remember we’re not talking about people who make six figures. Your comment is so far out of line and so wildly unrealistic that it’s reprehensible.
As far as the governments “place”. It is the job of the government to ensure the welfare of its citizens. Given that the “free-market” has proven itself unable to provide a basic necessity like affordable health care who is left to cover the gap? The US government. But that’s not good enough for corporate America. Because even though private insurers can’t keep costs low enough for 43,000,000 Americans they DON’T WANT ANYONE ELSE PROVIDING THEM WITH COVERAGE because it will be too much competition. This is immoral and possibly criminal. Since when did the power of life and death pass to insurance companies??? Jesus’ how lost can you get.
Now if after reading my diatribe you still can’t see my way of thinking remember this: “There but for the grace of God go I”. It would take nothing more than you getting laid off or your business going under to find yourself in the same position as those 43,000,000 uninsured Americans so be careful what you wish for.
August 24th, 2009 at 3:52 pmdocglass says:
HAHAHAHA you said Americans need to get their facts straight and then spewed all that stupid rightwing nonsense. Here is a clue you desperatly need. The idiocy you have been brainwashed with does NOT constitute facts. You dont know what you are talking about. You are a fool that thinks a rerun of the Rush Limbaugh show is actually FACTUAL. Rent a clue and stop pretending your delusional fantasies are facts. I mean its amusing to laugh at you but please. Some day you might want someone to take you seriously
August 25th, 2009 at 6:23 amvery thanks for article!
August 29th, 2009 at 9:30 am