Comparing Obama to ‘Hitler,’ Grassley constituent says he’d ‘take a gun to Washington’ if crowd supported him.
Comparing Obama to ‘Hitler,’ Grassley constituent says he’d ‘take a gun to Washington’ if crowd supported him.
Earlier this month, police detained a man at a health care town hall meeting held by Sen. Ben Cardin (D-MD) because he was carrying a sign declaring “Death to Obama” and “Death to Michelle and her two stupid kids.” Additionally, at least two members of Congress have reported receiving threatening faxes with pictures of Obama and the phrase “Death to All Marxists! Foreign and Domestic!” At a town hall event held by Sen. Chuck Grassley (R-IA) yesterday, a man compared Obama to Hiter and said he would “take a gun to Washington if enough of you would go with me”:
President Barack Obama is a fascist.
This and other assertions flew through an emotionally-charged town hall meeting conducted by Sen. Chuck Grassley Monday in Pocahontas.
“The president of the United States, that’s who you should be concerned about. Because he’s acting like a little Hitler,” said Tom Eisenhower, a World War II veteran. “I’d take a gun to Washington if enough of you would go with me.”
In the past few weeks, various members of the right-wing We The People organization have carried guns outside of town halls events. The Washington Post’s E.J. Dionne wrote last week of the gun incidents: “It’s not about an opposition that has every right to free expression. It’s about an angry minority engaging in intimidation backed by the threat of violence.”
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Boy… can you imagine the hysterics if anyone on the left had tried to take a gun anywhere near a Bush rally?
Sheeeeeeeeeeit… those boys were terrified of t-shirts and bumper stickers…
August 25th, 2009 at 10:52 amThe representatives who are hosting these town meetings and do nothing about these domestic terrorists should be taken in to custody and questioned for their inaction to squelch these people, if not to be charged with treason and threats on the life of the President and his family.
August 25th, 2009 at 10:53 amI thought threatening the President of the United States was a federal offense?
Or is that only when the President isn’t a scary black man?
August 25th, 2009 at 10:53 amThe ironic side of these despicable stories is that these are the same hyenas who claim to be “pro-life”
August 25th, 2009 at 10:54 amSo why the hell aren’t they arresting these terrorists???
Seriously – why aren’t these dangerous lunatics LOCKED UP??
August 25th, 2009 at 10:55 amFascism is virulently anti-socialist/anti-communist. These are the only groups (and perhaps some anarchists), who have been the only consistent and effective anti-fascist fighters, and are the fascist’s first targets.
August 25th, 2009 at 10:57 amLeftside Annie says:
Because, my dear, in case you have forgotten.
IOKIYAR
August 25th, 2009 at 10:57 amSo why the hell aren’t they arresting these terrorists??? Seriously – why aren’t these dangerous lunatics LOCKED UP??
I think the Feds are trying hard to round these folks up and get them the mental health care they need. However, before they can close in on them, FoxSnooze signs them up for gigs as on-air pundits or talk-show hosts.
August 25th, 2009 at 10:59 am“The president of the United States, that’s who you should be concerned about. Because he’s acting like a little Hitler,” said Tom Eisenhower, a World War II veteran. “I’d take a gun to Washington if enough of you would go with me.”
August 25th, 2009 at 10:59 amBeing a Vet myself i will not use put downs on this person as he is a vet. But this guy embasses most WWII Vets i know for one my father would be upset at this guy.
Chuck Grassley is palling around with (domestic) terrorists!
August 25th, 2009 at 10:59 amI long for an America that once again marginalizes the nutjob fringe, instead of celebrating them and inviting them to provide direction to one of our two primary political parties.
August 25th, 2009 at 10:59 amGood point, Tom.
How long before we see this “voice of reason” on O’Reilly or Inanity?
August 25th, 2009 at 11:01 amPandering sociopath.
August 25th, 2009 at 11:03 amHey Tom Eisenhower, how about a little background where you fought in WW11 and with what outfits? Has anyone at the old folks home told you that you’re too feeble in mind and body to be anywhere near any guns?!
August 25th, 2009 at 11:07 amYeah, sure. Obama is about to round up Jews, Gypsies, the disabled, etc. to send to concentration camps, eh? Such wingnut remarks are insulting to the millions killed in the Holocaust, their families, and those who managed to survive the concentration camps and ghettos.
August 25th, 2009 at 11:10 amSounds like another James Van Brunn in the making.
How long before one of these psychotics actually makes good on a threat?
What will the propagandists like Beck and the enablers like Grassley do if some dangerously unhinged person actually believes the tripe their being fed about the President being a dictator bent on committing genocide and turns to violence…?
This is just disgraceful.
August 25th, 2009 at 11:12 amI am sorry but if this fellow actually fought in the war why does he need a crowd to go to Washington with him to confront a democratically elected government. The most telling part of the linked story is the cornfed cretin complaining about government spending starting with the stimulus. Too bad these morons didn’t pay attention while Chimpy and The Dick bankrupted the nation with tax cuts for the rich and elective wars.
August 25th, 2009 at 11:12 amI have a question about all this Obama is Hitler stuff. How is he being like Hitler? Nobody ever seems to ask that simple question. Of course, the folks saying are unbalanced, at best, but I’d like to know what the guy has done that makes him like Hitler. Has the goverment been rounding up people and putting them in concentration camps? Has Obama taken over Congress and disbanded it? Has he attacked Canada? What exactly has he done that is even remotely like what Hitler did in Germany?
August 25th, 2009 at 11:14 am“I’d take a gun to Washington if enough of you would go with me.”
So what the unhinged teabaggers are saying is that the only thing holding them back from trying to assasssinate the President of the United States is VALIDATION from their peers!!!!???? And Glenn Beck is back on the air inciting more to violence…great.
August 25th, 2009 at 11:14 amIt’s partially a matter of honesty. bush actually did behave as a facist in many ways.
It speaks to you and your co-horts inability to understand the world you live in.
August 25th, 2009 at 11:15 amI can’t think of another country on Earth where this sort of talk would be tolerated; it is simply irresponsible to allow rabble-rousers to publicly advocate a violent overthrow of the government and murder of its duly elected leaders. These people are actually trying to make me ashamed of the First Amendment. Not that they’ve succeeded – yet – but they’re trying.
August 25th, 2009 at 11:15 amWhere was all the concern when the left compared Bush to Hitler?
Why is watchdog ignoring the armed march on Washington part of the quote, I wonder?
August 25th, 2009 at 11:16 amsaid Tom Eisenhower, a World War II veteran. “I’d take a gun to Washington if enough of you would go with me.”
I respect your service, Mr. Eisenhower, but if you take a gun to Washington the Secret Service will take a gun to you.
I’m just saying.
August 25th, 2009 at 11:17 amFrom watchpoop’s admittedly less-than-copious collection of Bush=Hitler allusions, the first entry is moveon.org, which says:
Asking for “really creative ads that will engage and enlighten viewers and help them understand the truth about George Bush”, political campaign group MoveOn.org ran a contest for 30 second adverts from November to December 2003, inviting submissions and posting entered films on their site. Having said that “we’re not going to post anything that would be inappropriate for television”, two of the original 1,500 submissions which they posted were direct “Bush = Hitler” statements. Yes – there were a lot of submissions, and no – the two ads didn’t make into the shortlist (they were later pulled from the site)
Hmm… sounds like moveon.org did not endorse said allusion. In fact, they dismissed it from serious consideration.
Too bad Chuck Grassley doesn’t show the same integrity.
August 25th, 2009 at 11:17 am“I’d take a gun to Washington if enough of you would go with me.”
August 25th, 2009 at 11:18 amWent he said this i hope no many cheer him, and what did grassley say back to this guy. And you know is not grassley in the WWII era what did he do in the war, shovel sh!t in Iowa?
watchdog says:
Where was all the concern when the left compared Bush to Hitler?
____________
Well… when you take into account that Bush DID joke about being a dictator, DID say the Constitution was “just a god-damned piece of paper”, DID start a preemptory war based on false information, DID engage in wire-tapping and torture…
And while you’re at it… which Democratic officials ever compared Bush to Hitler, the way Republicans of ALL stripes have been doing it?
Which nationally syndicated liberal talk show hosts?
And when did a Dem/liberal ever show up at Bush political function and strut packing heat?
Don’t worry… I won’t wait for your answer…
***eyes roll***
August 25th, 2009 at 11:19 amwatchdog: I was the -10th vote. Go f uck yourself.
August 25th, 2009 at 11:19 amA Patriotic Anopheles Acting says:
So what the unhinged teabaggers are saying is that the only thing holding them back from trying to assasssinate the President of the United States is VALIDATION from their peers!!!!????
No, it’s not Validation, it’s cowardice. He doesn’t want to do what he thinks he should do, unless he’s accompanied by lots of people.
August 25th, 2009 at 11:19 amralph the wonder llama says:
Too bad Chuck Grassley doesn’t show the same integrity.
____________
Or watchpoop, for that matter.
August 25th, 2009 at 11:20 amTwo questions: Did Grassley hear the threat? What did he do in reply?
August 25th, 2009 at 11:22 amCan we charge Grassley with sedition? I don’t see why not.
August 25th, 2009 at 11:22 am
Another one of watchpoop’s random allusions:
Thom Hartmann
At Common Dreams in March 2003 Thom Hartmann, who we must suppose knows a lot about the Nazis because he, errr, “lived and worked in Germany during the 1980s” produced an extended thesis to the effect that the Reichstag fire and Hitler’s 1933 Enabling Act was just like the 9/11 attacks and subsequent events.
This is the equivalent of the gentleman’s overt threat to the President?
So drawing a comparison between the use of one traumatic, violent event to expand governmental power and the use of another traumatic, violent event to expand political power is somehow improper?
I thought that was the work of historians?
Oh, that’s right — history, like the rest of academic inquiry, and reality itself, is liberally biased.
August 25th, 2009 at 11:22 ammangy cur was shot down, crashed & burned in short order.
August 25th, 2009 at 11:22 amJob well done.
I’ll say this about Hitler just one more time:
NO ONE deserves to be compared to the more tyrannical dictator of all time. NO ONE deserves to be compared to Nazis.
I personally abhor anyone making such accusations or comparisons, whether it be Bush, Obama, or any President from the past or future.
Now, are you going to defend this domestic threat or accuse us of supporting past threats, watchdog?
August 25th, 2009 at 11:24 amI think it’s worth pointing out that:
1) The Eisenhower being mentioned is not the well-known and liked General and later President Eisenhower, but rather the little-known Private Eisenhower…
2) If he’s a WW II vet, he’s GOTTA be, at the very least in his mid-seventies, which means he’s collecting SS, and/or a military pension, and is probably benefitting from Medicare. Perhaps he too would like to tell Obama to keep the government’s hands offa his Medicare!
August 25th, 2009 at 11:24 amralph the wonder llama
Hmm… sounds like moveon.org did not endorse said allusion. In fact, they dismissed it from serious consideration.
Too bad Chuck Grassley doesn’t show the same integrity.
Good catch, ralph. Doggie doesn’t synthesize information, Doggie sniffs butts.
August 25th, 2009 at 11:24 am… Meaning that moveon DID apologize for hose ads comparing Bush to Hitler.
thus undermining the sloppily composed list watchpoop tried to foist on us as “evidence”.
Try to do better next time, watchpoop. I know you haven’t got much to work with, and you don’t even have thumbs, but even my Jack russel could do better than you.
August 25th, 2009 at 11:25 amWhoops. Never mind Grassley. It’s this guy I should have been talking about. You’d think a World War II vet would know he’s supposed to respect the chain of command.
August 25th, 2009 at 11:25 amWhat a disgrace the repiggie party has become!
What a disgusting spectacle!
August 25th, 2009 at 11:26 am***
ralph,
the words “watchdog” and “integrity”
are antonyms.
**
i’m sure doggie has no
idea what an antonym
is of course.
:)
August 25th, 2009 at 11:26 am***
supporting nazism is, however,
a doggie/conservative trait.
:=|
August 25th, 2009 at 11:29 amI ask again, watchdog…
Why are you ignoring the armed march on Washington part of the quote?
August 25th, 2009 at 11:30 amMoveOn.org Shouldn’t Apologize for Those Ads comparing Bush to Hitler.
Remember, kids, the ultra-left-wing MoveOn said it was wrong to compare Bush to Hitler. This proves that every liberal everywhere was constantly comparing Bush to Hitler, therby giving watchdog legal justification for repeatedly threatening to kill the President.
August 25th, 2009 at 11:31 amThese people with guns are darning someone to arrest them so they can shout that Obama wants to take away our guns.
Now, since the law didn’t pass that would allow people to take their gun from state to state, if they had the cc, what would happen if this same man showed up in front of the WH with his gun?
August 25th, 2009 at 11:32 amOne shouldn’t compare Bush and Hitler. Too many differences:
1. Hitler never went AWOL
2. Hitler never fell off a segue
3. Hitler never used read anyone’s email
4. Hitler was legitimately elected
5. Hitler was not controlled by his VP
I’m sure there are more differences
August 25th, 2009 at 11:34 amAnd I suppose Grassley didn’t say a word. People who know better need to make examples of kooks like this and show some intelligence about a serious problem.
http://www.sunstateactivist.org/ssablog/
August 25th, 2009 at 11:35 amwatchdog,
the reality is Bush and Cheney were acting like Hitler trying to spread their cultural imperialism.
No apology needed from MoveOn you cretin.
August 25th, 2009 at 11:36 amjoe,
watchdung says an antonym is a patriotic hymn.
(Anthem & Hymn)
O, say can you see,
Any brains left in me.
If you do, take a few,
I’ve nothing better to do…
August 25th, 2009 at 11:37 amChyron HR says:
MoveOn.org Shouldn’t Apologize for Those Ads comparing Bush to Hitler.”
How many times do we have to tell these brain impaired people on the right that MoveOn.org didn’t make the ad and never used it. It was a contest and someone that submitted the ad, Chyron.
August 25th, 2009 at 11:37 amCan we charge Grassley with sedition? I don’t see why not.
I can — Brandenburg v. Ohio, and it’s the only that keeps a lot of lefties out of court, too.
Free speech is commutative, just lie addition and subtraction.
August 25th, 2009 at 11:39 amTommy: there certainly are more…
6. Hitler never choked on a pretzel.
August 25th, 2009 at 11:43 am7. Hitler never got into a high-profile college with the help of his daddy.
8. Hitler actually served his country in combat (referring here to WWI, for you tinfoil hat wearers).
9. Hitler was never reading “My Pet Goat” while his country was being attacked.
10. Hitler’s wife never killed anyone in a drunk driving accident.
guns and threats of violence are the difference that you cretons don’t seem to want to acknowledge.
Violence will work against the right and it’s coming. It’s inevitable now.
August 25th, 2009 at 11:43 amThis guy can carry firearms to Washington in the same car/truck that the US Marshall ride along to make sure of two things for you…
1) You make it to the airport on time – safe, and
2) You arrive at your isolation cell at Gitmo or maybe Turkey or Indonesia or wherever you get interrogated…
bye..bye…moron..
August 25th, 2009 at 11:43 amIt was a contest and someone that submitted the ad, Chyron.
Protip: When people quote right-wing trolls before refuting their comments, that doesn’t mean they are endorsing those comments.
August 25th, 2009 at 11:43 amObama is not Hitler. Not even close. Nonsense! I hope the Secret Service are on their toes. I worry for President’s safety, not from our enemies, but from my fellow citizens. It is a sad state of affairs.
August 25th, 2009 at 11:46 amIn Michigan, Jackson County Commissioner Phil Duckham brought a swastika sign to an anti-health care reform rally outside the office of U.S. Rep. Mark Schauer (MI-07).
My Huffington Post piece on it is here (with photos).
August 25th, 2009 at 11:47 amhttp://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?aid=816
The reason watchdog doesn’t want to discuss the full quote… part is protected speech (stupid and ignorant but protected) the part he’d like to ignore may not be… (and is also stupid and ignorant)
August 25th, 2009 at 11:49 am
This hysteria is fueled by the NRA, and I think it’s time we started an initiative, for progressives and independents who are worried by the inflamed rhetoric of the pro-gun crowd, to join the NRA. If hundreds of thousands of like-minded citizens, fed up with the incendiary talk were to join, and attent meetings, we could effectively neuter the rabid righties.
August 25th, 2009 at 11:53 ambarfly says:
If hundreds of thousands of like-minded citizens, fed up with the incendiary talk were to join, and attent meetings, we could effectively neuter the rabid righties.
*Sigh* I wish you were talking literally…
August 25th, 2009 at 11:55 amPeople were arrested and detained at Bushevik ‘rallies’ for wearing anti-war tee-shirst for the phucqing lovashit!
August 25th, 2009 at 11:57 amAnd who gets airtime by the Corporate Media…the INSANE NUT BALLS…
…if it bleeds, it leads.
Fcuk the Republic Fascist Party
August 25th, 2009 at 11:58 amThat Vet had better be 80 or older or he’s no WWII Vet. And, if he is 80 or older, he’s had at least 15 years of government-run single-payer health insurance. When he was in his 20’s he got the GI Bill, massive public funding for his childrens’ education, massive jobs programs building infrastructure, interstate highways and public buildings.
Now, he wants to kill a President for trying to give the American people just a little of what he’s obviously taken for granted. That’s the “greatest generation” for you – they’ve been living off the glory of about 3000 of their own young men who were unfortunate enough to die on the beach at Normandy for decades now as if they all have some magical internal fortitude that we younger generations fail to possess. Thanks, gramps, for showing us how many in the “greatest generation” feel about their fellow citizens.
August 25th, 2009 at 11:58 amThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
I worry for President’s safety, not from our enemies, but from my fellow citizens. It is a sad state of affairs.
August 25th, 2009 at 11:46 am
You haven’t been paying attention if you don’t regard those shitwhistles as your ‘enemies.’
They are not your friends…
August 25th, 2009 at 11:59 amTAPEWORM, don’t you have a couple dozen quarter pounders with extra cheese to choke on?
August 25th, 2009 at 11:59 amI’ve compared Bush to Hitler and been lambasted right here on TP. However, there are apt comparisons (which I won’t go into).
But, both rantingtommy and the dogfather have done a pretty good job describing the differences between the two so I won’t get confused in the future.
August 25th, 2009 at 12:01 pmNow, he wants to kill a President for trying to give the American people just a little of what he’s obviously taken for granted.
no, he wants to kill the president because the President is (half-)Black…
Don’t go making it more complicated that it really is…
August 25th, 2009 at 12:02 pmWhy are these people who threaten the lives of the President & his family not arrested? You can be charged with threatening to kill anyone, let alone the First Family. And as others have said, if anyone had threatened the life of Bush (worst president ever), they would have been immediately arrested as a terrorist. The lack of any real consequences for these recent terrorists- for that’s what they are– is not just appalling, it sends out the message that for some reason, death threats to Obama & family will be leniently treated, which just incites other home-grown terrorists to do the same.
August 25th, 2009 at 12:02 pmRather it is people like you who make irrisponsible remarks like the above that are fueling the hate and insueing violence.
I hope you really know what you are doing. I don’t think you do.
August 25th, 2009 at 12:03 pmIs this why Canada and most of Europe have gun control????
August 25th, 2009 at 12:04 pmtokin librul: “no, he wants to kill the president because the President is (half-)Black…
Don’t go making it more complicated that it really is…”
No kidding! In addition to storming the beach at Normandy, the “greatest generation” also gave us institutional racism, lynchings, “separate but equal,” “the Southern Strategy”, “closed neighborhoods,” and grotesque medical experiments on unsuspecting African-American vets. The….Greatest…Generation!
August 25th, 2009 at 12:07 pm* United States Code
o TITLE 18 – CRIMES AND CRIMINAL PROCEDURE
+ PART I – CRIMES
# CHAPTER 115 – TREASON, SEDITION, AND SUBVERSIVE ACTIVITIES
U.S. Code as of: 01/19/04
Section 2385. Advocating overthrow of Government
Whoever knowingly or willfully advocates, abets, advises, or teaches the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying the government of the United States or the government of any State, Territory, District or Possession thereof, or the government of any political subdivision therein, by force or violence, or by the assassination of any officer of any such government;
or Whoever, with intent to cause the overthrow or destruction of any such government, prints, publishes, edits, issues, circulates, sells, distributes, or publicly displays any written or printed matter advocating, advising, or teaching the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying any government in the United States by force or violence, or attempts to do so;
or Whoever organizes or helps or attempts to organize any society, group, or assembly of persons who teach, advocate, or encourage the overthrow or destruction of any such government by force or violence; or becomes or is a member of, or affiliates with, any such society, group, or assembly of persons, knowing the purposes thereof –
Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both, and shall be ineligible for employment by the United States or any department or agency thereof, for the five years next following his conviction.
If two or more persons conspire to commit any offense named in this section, each shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both, and shall be ineligible for employment by the United States or any department or agency thereof, for the five years next following his conviction.
As used in this section, the terms “organizes” and “organize”, ith respect to any society, group, or assembly of persons, include the recruiting of new members, the forming of new units, and the regrouping or expansion of existing clubs, classes, and other units of such society, group, or assembly of persons.
August 25th, 2009 at 12:08 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
I have compared Bush/Cheney to Hitler – always to the early days of Hitler’s rise to power, pre-WWII.
And I’m not ashamed of doing so, because I made those comparisons based upon good, sound logical and historical reasons.
As opposed to the the wingnuts comparing Obama to Hitler; they have not one single historical precedent or fact to call upon, but rely solely on racism and ignorance.
A “Nazi” is a very bad thing to be; therefore, when the wingnuts loudly shriek that Obama is a Nazi – it’s simply a mindless epithet, like “a$$hole,” and is flung like chimpanzee feces with no accurate historical context whatsoever.
August 25th, 2009 at 12:10 pmWe shouldn’t slam all the vets. My uncle was a glider pilot during the Normandy invasion and fought in the Battle of the Bulge. He’s told exactly one story that I know off, the rest he keeps to himself.
As for this guys age, my father, who’s 80 was too young to fight in WWII, he was drafted for Korea however (and spent the entire time in France).
August 25th, 2009 at 12:11 pmdasm: “Why are these people who threaten the lives of the President & his family not arrested?”
Do we all remember when a middle-aged couple (they were both teachers I think) were arrested at a Bush event for wearing t-shirts with “NO MORE BUSH” on them?
Get used to the fact that many of our police are right-wing bullies in real life. In the 60’s, when they would wade into groups of war protesters wildly swinging leaded billy clubs and sending scores to the hospital, many correctly referred to them as “pigs.”
August 25th, 2009 at 12:11 pmAnother right-wing terrorist joins the ranks and uses violent rhetoric, and the mainstream Republicans cheer him on. The Republicans absolutely disgust me at this point. I will never again vote for another Republican as long as I live. These lunatics are just looking for a spark to start mass killings and a civil war.
August 25th, 2009 at 12:14 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
It’s sad to think that under W we had an illegal war, torture, illegal spying on AMerican citizens, a CIA operative was outed, an attempted purge of the Justice Department, 9/11, Katrina, economic collaspe etc. and the thing that gets the wingnuts screaming is a proposal for health care reform that they’ll benefit from. We are WAY through the looking glass on this one.
August 25th, 2009 at 12:15 pmRich H: “We shouldn’t slam all the vets.”
I hope nobody around here is doing that. I’m certainly not. My Father was also at the Battle of the Bulge and my uncle was a Marine in the Pacific. They went through a lot and many of them were deeply wounded mentally if not physically.
I just don’t like hearing seniors who have in some way or form been on the public dole for their entire life talking about how the President is a “socialist.” It’s just ugly.
August 25th, 2009 at 12:17 pmwatchdog says:
Where was all the concern when the left compared Bush to Hitler?
We didn’t threaten to shoot him.
But that comparison actually made sense. The “unitary executive theory” being floated by many in Bush’s DoJ is essentially the definition of fascism. So is the notion that a “wartime President” gets to do whatever they want whether it’s legal or not. Starting wars based on lies was something significant that Bush and Hitler had in common, with Iraq standing in for the modern-day Poland. Economically, the buddy-buddy relationship between government and corporations, with no-bid contracts and wink-wink-nudge-nudge deregulation was also very similar to the relationship of Nazi Germany and many of its industrial companies. Organizationally speaking, the overlap of multiple agencies, with decisions being made based on loyalty rather than job description, was a significant Nazi trait that also reappeared in the Bush Administration. And oh yeah, Bush threw people in detention camps without trial and then tortured them.
These comparisons are significant, because they are the things about Hitler that made him bad. As I’ve mentioned elsewhere, the wingnut comparisons between Obama and Hitler are pretty much as relevant as pointing out that they both wore pants. But Bush actually did many of the things that Hitler did which are also specifically the things that made Hitler a bad guy.
Of course, one should note that there are significant differences as well. Bush never got around to throwing all Muslims in death camps, as Ann Coulter suggested. He didn’t manage to have someone burn down the Capitol Building so he could declare martial law. But then, Hitler actually served in the military during WWI, rather than get a cushy position with the Bavarian Air National Guard and then not even show up for it.
The difference between a good comparison and a bad comparison is whether you can back it up. The Bush/Hitler comparison can be backed up with a great number of significant and disturbing similarities. The Obama/Hitler comparison is just a bunch of empty rhetoric.
August 25th, 2009 at 12:17 pmbullshit
August 25th, 2009 at 12:18 pmI don’t understand how anyone can hold a sign wishing death to children in public and not have it denounced and ridiculed by people of all political persuasions.
August 25th, 2009 at 12:19 pmMark701 says:
We are WAY through the looking glass on this one.
_______________
As a country, we’re rapidly approaching free fall.
On top of everything you said, don’t forget the Tea Baggers, the birfers, the deathers, and now… the schlongers…
Come to think of it… mebbe the Tea Baggers and the schlongers are teh same people… overlapping interests ‘n all…
August 25th, 2009 at 12:21 pmIf you have even a cursory grasp of what the Nazis were all about, it’s amusing to hear conservatives compare any liberals to Hitler.
American conservatives have ALWAYS admired Hitler. In 1933, when a group of industrialists and bankers tried to stage an armed coup to remove FDR from office, the people running the conspiracy spoke openly about how they preferred the way the Nazis were going to run things in Germany because it allowed corporations to do more careful, long-range planning and society was much less chaotic. Henry Ford was a great admirer of Hitler. Prescott Bush, W’s grandfather, and his friends provided banking services to the Nazis before and even during WWII.
August 25th, 2009 at 12:22 pmHere is a contact page for Grassley – I’ve submitted my message and hope others will as well:
http://grassley.senate.gov/contact.cfm
August 25th, 2009 at 12:22 pmOutstandingInMyField says:
__________
That’s why you’re NOT a Republican…
August 25th, 2009 at 12:22 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
smoothcriminal: “Like Bush, Obama has the same mind set, “if you’re not with us, then you are against us”, Obama just does not verbalize it.”
Wow, if you can read the President’s mind from a remote location, you need to take that act on the road! Do you need an agent?
August 25th, 2009 at 12:23 pm“The president of the United States, that’s who you should be concerned about. Because he’s acting like a little Hitler,” said Tom Eisenhower, a World War II veteran.
______________________________________________________________
Why in the world do we have all these mentally arthritic individuals comparing President Obama to Adolph Hitler? They almost never give a reason. It’s kind of like “we’re going to mention Hitler’s name and carry signs with Obama photoshopped to look like Hitler as often as we possibly can, in hopes that some people will conflate the two in their minds.”
On those rare occasions that we actually get some of these boneheads to cough up a reason for the comparision, it’s usually something totally absurd — such as “they’re both socialists”, or “Hitler was a great believer in socialized medicine, too.”
Nonsense. If you wanted to compare Obama to somebody who implemented socialized medicine, you’d probably start with Clement Attlee — Prime Minister of the UK when their parliament authorized the National Health Service Act of 1946. Or perhaps Lester Pearson of Canada, who was inspired by Lyndon Johnson and Medicare. Of course, none of these men’s names carry the same emotional punch as Hitler’s.
Hitler’s “health care” plan consisted mostly of committing genocide. And as much as the wingnuts chant “death panels!”, that’s not the case here.
Normally a crackpot is written off as a crackpot. The scary part is that nowadays it seems to be contagious.
August 25th, 2009 at 12:24 pm@91 – What are you talking about?
August 25th, 2009 at 12:24 pmare you off your meds Stallman?
August 25th, 2009 at 12:24 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Richard Stallman:”It’s no wonder people want guns, in order to protect themselves from you fascist socialist scum”
Memo to Stallman: This is the U.S.A., and last time I checked, quite a few lefties have guns as well. But, just for the sake of argument, what exactly is it that you think you’re protecting yourself from?
August 25th, 2009 at 12:25 pmIn what ways, Stallman?
Can you give some specific examples??????
August 25th, 2009 at 12:27 pmNow that I’ve been reading the posts and have been thinking about it.
I’m not sure if I should worry so much. With the state of education in this country I seriously doubt there are many 20 somethings (and younger) who even know who Hitler was.
August 25th, 2009 at 12:27 pmStallman: you…sob, choke, liberals…. are horrible, sniff, choke, sob, EVIL scum…. for wanting to…. sniff, choke, give health care…. to…sob, blubber…all… Americans!!!!”
Hey Stallman, I feel your pain. It’s just wrong when someone tries to give you more human rights! Outrageous!
August 25th, 2009 at 12:28 pm(maybe stallman is just riffing some deathbagger snark?)
August 25th, 2009 at 12:28 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Stallman: “You socialists are fascists…”
I think Stallman’s off his meds.
August 25th, 2009 at 12:29 pmDo these morons believe Obama is just like Hitler because
August 25th, 2009 at 12:30 pm
This comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Richard Stallman says:
It’s no wonder people want guns, in order to protect themselves from you fascist socialist scum
Come back and talk with us when you have even the faintest comprehention of what the hell you are talking about.
Until then you are just another ranting fool. Easy to pick out of a crowd because you can’t keep your ignorance under control.
August 25th, 2009 at 12:30 pmStallman’s a liberal – and we’re leftist fascits.
That’s funny.
Care to explain yourself Stallman
August 25th, 2009 at 12:31 pmYet one more violence-prone teabagger unclear on the concept.
So predictable.
August 25th, 2009 at 12:31 pmStallman: “You scum aren’t liberals. I’m a liberal.. You are leftist fascists.”
This is great stuff. Stallman, did you know that a Princeton study from 2005 showed that schizophrenics were much more likely to identify themselves as Republicans than the general population? Funny, eh?
August 25th, 2009 at 12:32 pmRichard Stallman,
You are an ignorant, anti-American clown who needs professional psychiatric help.
August 25th, 2009 at 12:32 pmRichard Stallman says:
You scum aren’t liberals. I’m a liberal.. You are leftist fascists.
More evidence that the dumbing down of the right is more than just a work in progress.
Dick, you should be scared, you have lost your mind.
August 25th, 2009 at 12:33 pmStallman: “You constantly want to be slaves to the state. You socialist fascists are barely sentient..”
OK, we’ve got a pretty firm diagnosis here: Stallman suffers from LNS, Libertarian Nonsense Syndrome. Some people call it a religion. Others simply know it as a mental disorder. Those unfortunate enough to have LNS are usually very short on historical fact, but ironically, have a very high opinion of their own intelligence.
August 25th, 2009 at 12:33 pm#70 and others – The Secret Service takes this sort of thing very seriously. The ensuing arrest/investigation/etc. probably gets underreported because it’s not as controversial for someone getting apprehended for actually threatening the President as it was someone getting apprehended for wearing a T-shirt that says “Bush sucks.” Most people kind of assume the former are being dealt with appropriately by the Secret Service.
August 25th, 2009 at 12:34 pmOkay, who thinks Richard Stallman is a parody troll?
Think about it: over-the-top stereotypical rhetoric, brutally uninformed, habitually abusive…
okay, maybe he is geuine.
Tell me, though, how great a name for a Republican is “Stallman”? It works both ways: in the sense that all Republicans can do is stall good legislation to protect their corporate overlords, and in the “Larry Craig” sense.
August 25th, 2009 at 12:35 pmThat does it. When a troll makes Tracist sound reasonable, it must be a parody.
August 25th, 2009 at 12:36 pmSteamingPile,
Just like we assumed the Secret Service would do something about the nut jobs with guns at the town halls.
Seems to me, the only time the Secret Service have done anything is AFTER the local police have called them in to do so.
August 25th, 2009 at 12:37 pmSteaming Pile, the couple wearing t-shirts were arrested by the local police. They were not even questioned by the Secret Service. The problem I have is with the police, not the Secret Service.
August 25th, 2009 at 12:37 pm“Tom Eisenhower, a World War II veteran.”
The guys poor grandkids are probably text messageing each other right now trying to figure out who forgot to give grandpa his medication.
Fear not though studies have shown that the wheelchair bound make poor mob leaders.
August 25th, 2009 at 12:37 pmRichard Stallman says:
It’s no wonder people want guns, in order to protect themselves from you fascist socialist scum
Because the only way your “people” can debate any ideas they don’t like, is by brandishing guns at their opponents.
Con: “I think socialized healthcare is wrong!”
August 25th, 2009 at 12:37 pmLib: “Oh, care to explain WHY is it so wrong?”
Con: “Because… uhm… see… Shut up! Shut up! Get off my land! I’ve got a gun!”
Stallman,
You’re just pretty much stringing words together there, aren’t ya?
You DO realize you can’t be a true socialist and a fascist at the same time…?
August 25th, 2009 at 12:38 pmRichard Stallman says:
____________
You’re funny… but not in a good way.
What’s a leftist fascist?
I personally identify as an Salamo-Marxist, BTW…
August 25th, 2009 at 12:38 pmThank you, Tracy.
August 25th, 2009 at 12:39 pmcd says:
Fear not though studies have shown that the wheelchair bound make poor mob leaders.
______________
Apparently you’ve never seen certain episodes of Seinfeld…
August 25th, 2009 at 12:39 pmcsavage says:
“In Michigan, Jackson County Commissioner Phil Duckham brought a swastika sign to an anti-health care reform rally outside the office of U.S. Rep. Mark Schauer (MI-07).”
here’s the moron’s email address should you want to send him a little note: PDuckham@co.jackson.mi.us
August 25th, 2009 at 12:40 pmSmoothCriminal says:
Like Bush, Obama has the same mind set, “if you’re not with us, then you are against us”, Obama just does not verbalize it.
It’s fascinating how all y’all wingnuts are telepathic. Because not only does he not verbalize such a thing, in fact he verbalizes and behaves as if he believed the exact opposite. There is zero evidence that he has any such mindset, and a lot of evidence to the contrary, and yet you continue to claim to have special knowledge of such a thing.
.
Richard Stallman says:
It’s no wonder people want guns, in order to protect themselves from you fascist socialist scum
Except nobody’s attacking you.
Also, fascists and communists have always been enemies.
And fascism has always been a right-wing phenomenon.
.
Richard Stallman says:
You socialists are fascists, that’s why you’re compared to Hitler’s Nazi Germany.
If we were fascists, then Obama would have been able to get more done by now.
.
Richard Stallman says:
You are horrible, evil scum
Actually, you are horrible, evil scum. And I can back that up.
August 25th, 2009 at 12:40 pm*SIGH*
Once again…we need to tell the
Grassley Fool that he is a disgrace to
The United States of America and to
his oath of office:
http://grassley.senate.gov/contact.cfm
August 25th, 2009 at 12:41 pm“What’s a leftist fascist?”
Created in a laboratory, the “leftist fascist” is a clone made from the genes of both Benito Mussolini and Karl Marx.
August 25th, 2009 at 12:42 pmFred – I think you look at these things too simply, and not thoroughly enough… These are complex matters and being scared to point out the truth only feeds the falsehoods. You can’t set up a blanket “Obama is not like the nazi’s” if there are some policies that are – you need to be able to say “Comparing what this administration is doing with health care to what the nazi party did is ridiculous – What the Bush administration had done to “the enemy” is more similar to what the nazi’s did & Obama’s current position on prosecuting those crimes is the same that the nazi’s used to defend their actions but there is NO comparison to the health care battle”
August 25th, 2009 at 12:44 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Tracy__5 says:
Richard Stallman says:
_____________
So… you two know each other?
Just out of curiosity… do you self-identify as Birfers, Deathers, Tea Baggers, or Schlongers? Or do both go for the Grand Slam of Wingnuttery and claim all 4?
Just asking…
August 25th, 2009 at 12:49 pmRichard Stallman says:
You fascist socialists are incapable of logic. Your entire world-view is based on pure emotion.
You sound disturbed. Would you like to share your feelings with us? We’ll hug the evil right out of you, we will!
August 25th, 2009 at 12:49 pmMy message that I just sent to Grassley:
I’ve just seen one of many comments made by attendees at your most recent town hall meeting (Monday in Pocahontas);
“The president of the United States, that’s who you should be concerned about. Because he’s acting like a little Hitler,” said Tom Eisenhower, a World War II veteran. “I’d take a gun to Washington if enough of you would go with me.”
OUTRAGEOUS! Did you tell him to sit down and settle down? Did you tell these people that these are terrible things to say?
What exactly did you say to calm this bunch of thugs down?
YOU SIR, on what seems like a daily basis, have become worse and worse…siding with these looney-tooneys. It is beyond me how you can be a United States of America Senator and allow these things to go on.
Health care? If you are NOT leading (which you are not) then get out of the way. You only seem capable of saying NO and being an OBSTRUCTION to the 100’s of MILLIONS of Americans that need real reform.
Step aside.
Send your thoughts at;
http://grassley.senate.gov/contact.cfm
August 25th, 2009 at 12:49 pmSo if anything happens, can we arrest and try Grassley as an accessory?
August 25th, 2009 at 12:53 pmRichard Stallman says:
“You fascist socialists are incapable of logic.”
fascist socialists = fascialists?
August 25th, 2009 at 12:53 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
I’d say Lefties prefer adherence to the real Golden Rule,
whereas Righties cleave to the bastardized version where the rich run everything.
August 25th, 2009 at 12:55 pmThing is, if you actually read any history–and I know that presents an insurmountable obstacle to the Stallmans of the world–”liberalism” is right up there with communism and modern art among the things actual, historical fascist movements have condemned most vociferously and consistently. Oddly enough, they share that in common with the communists. Who also hated modern abstract art btw.
Point being that visceral hatred of liberalism tracks highly consistently with authoritarianism, left or right flavors of same notwithstanding. Just to be clear as to what it is we’re talking about here.
Just wanting to be clear about what Stallman and his ilk actually are, politically and psychologically speaking.
August 25th, 2009 at 12:57 pmAnd you can’t point out one single action that resembles the nazi’s.
It’s just dishonest and you only show that you have nothing left to fight with except to make Obama seem as bad as your people…..sad and disgusting.
August 25th, 2009 at 12:58 pmTracy__5 says:
I thought he sounded like your bipolar twin.
_____________
AAAAAAAAAARGH… what sterling, witty commentary.
You’re much too quick for us… NO ONE can refute YOUR talking points…
So… which group do you identify w/?
I’m betting you’re a Schlonger…
August 25th, 2009 at 1:01 pmY’know, I think Mr. Spock was prone to sputtering nonsensical epithets like “fascist socialists” at those he was accusing of having no logic on Star Trek.
August 25th, 2009 at 1:01 pmCareful, Tracist… you’re up against some steep competition with Mr. Stall-man in the Nonsense Derby.
I know you’ve got mad skillz in this arena, but I think you may have met your match.
August 25th, 2009 at 1:02 pmDick, you are delusional. All who read your posts agree.
You talk about things you obviously have no understanding about and reflect exactly what you have been told to believe. You are a pathetic human being, period.
As for emotion, you just keep pretending that the teabaggers have a case. They do not. They are emotionally damaged, ignorant people like yourself who cannot think for yourself.
Your ignorance is exposed here for all to see. Your mother should be so proud.
August 25th, 2009 at 1:02 pmTracy__5 says:
The real Americans.
___________
In other words… the gun-totin’ loonies…
August 25th, 2009 at 1:07 pmTracy – why would you intentionally pervert the very simple and clear meaning of the most important moral principle in human history?
seriously – why?
August 25th, 2009 at 1:09 pmDo you suppose Mr. Stall-Man is from Minneapolis?
Is he friends with Jake Tapper?
… I got a million of ‘em… try the veal.
August 25th, 2009 at 1:09 pmBut I see you’re not giving up without a fight. Good for you.
August 25th, 2009 at 1:10 pmThe proposed legislation to which you refer would not have affected the legality of carrying firearms in the District of Columbia by any citizen. As the District of Columbia provides no provision for civilians to carry deadly weapons, a concealed deadly weapons pemit issued by any state would not have been honored in the District of Columbia even had the legislation to which you refer had passed. Whil enumerous opponents of the legislation had claimed that the proposal would have required locales that currently entirely prohibit the carrying of deadly weapons by all civilians without exception to permit individuals licensed in other states to do so, those opponents were in fact lying, because they were unable to construct a rational argument opposing the proposed bill amendment.
August 25th, 2009 at 1:11 pmI think these right wing loons may not be aware of something. This is the first Black President of the USA, a source of pride for Black people, not only in this country but around the world. We can take the criticism of the President..we can even tolerate the name calling, the slurs etc.
But if this President were to get shot and that is viewed in any way as having a racial undertone to it, I think the civil war that these nuts want would be REAL..
Believe it or not, in the inner cities and neigbourhoods, people are paying attention. They may not be at town halls..they may not be calling talk radio but they are paying attention.
And they have guns too….
August 25th, 2009 at 1:13 pmSome of you are expressing your reluctance to come down hard on this idiot because he is a vet. This is why we in this country have GOT to stop venerating soldiers as though they are gods. They are NOT. They are human beings. And when they step out of line like this one, they should be treated like the rest of us would. Enough with treating soldiers and vets like saints.
August 25th, 2009 at 1:13 pmFor what reason shourd the United States Secret Service take action against individuals who have violated neither law nor established security perimeters?
August 25th, 2009 at 1:14 pmFalsely?
Do try to prove.
I’m all ears.
August 25th, 2009 at 1:14 pmNah, it’s just that, as a vet, he knows that every soldier in combat requires nine people in support.
Mr. Eisenhower just wants to know that there will be someone to evac him to a MASH unit when the Secret Service unloads on him.
August 25th, 2009 at 1:14 pmTracy__5 says:
Which is where the largest corporation in the world i.e. the U.S. federal government runs everything?
The largest corporation in the world is Wal-mart. Are you claiming that Wal-mart runs everything? It would explain a lot of things, to be honest.
August 25th, 2009 at 1:15 pmDimentio says:
___________
Surely you’re joking…
And have you forgotten the folks ARRESTED at Bush rallies for merely wearing t-shirts?
August 25th, 2009 at 1:16 pmTracy__5 says:
No the citizens…
___________
“In other words… the gun-totin’ loonies…”
So nice of you to agree w/ me…
August 25th, 2009 at 1:17 pmGeez – Idunno – Why were those people with “the wrong tshirts” arrested at Bush Cheney events? Why were dissenters herded into “free speech zones” far from those events? Why were Quaker Grandmas followed and photographed by the FBI??
Take your double-standards and jump off a roof with them – gun nut.
August 25th, 2009 at 1:18 pmIf you take a gun to an event like this it is not for protection.
It is disrespectful and does not help your case. It makes you look like terrorists…..oh yeah.
August 25th, 2009 at 1:18 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Dimensio, take a minute to explain the behavior of taking guns to a presidential town hall meeting.
What point are you trying to make?
To rational human beings it appears that you wish to shove your rights up our rectums and ignore our rights.
You get no respect for this and you will find that this will fail for you. It is an idiotic plan, doomed to failure.
Did the gop think this up? No wonder.
August 25th, 2009 at 1:22 pmTo Richard Stallman:
http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=fascist
BITE ME!!
August 25th, 2009 at 1:22 pmYes I did Tracy, and now I invite you to demonstrate the ways in which they don’t, and support your claim of “falsehood”.
I’d also like to see you prove that the alternate formulation is superior to the traditional form, and point to relevant examples of that application in action.
But what I’m not going to do is while away half the day giving you the attention you apparently didn’t receive as a youngster, so you can go ’round and ’round the mulberry bush with your obtuse reasoning.
August 25th, 2009 at 1:23 pmThese right winger trolls are afraid of the government. I wonder if any of the trolls here have police records.
August 25th, 2009 at 1:24 pmTracy – in case you didn’t know – we VOTE for our government.
But we do not get to vote for or against the policies or persons engaged in private enterprise.
IF corporate governance were democratized, the world would be a much better place, and we wouldn’t have to see big chunks of our GDP floating in John Thain’s antique commode.
But that’s not going to happen, thus making our (imperfect) Government the last, best hope of a free people to remain free.
August 25th, 2009 at 1:25 pmThe Republic of Stupidity says: Apparently you’ve never seen certain episodes of Seinfeld…
Apparently you’ve never seen Little Nicky.
August 25th, 2009 at 1:25 pmTracy__5 says:
No, it’s by far the U.S. government. Which entity has more money and power?
So in addition to not knowing what the “Golden Rule” is, you also don’t know the definition of “Corporation”. That’s nice.
(P.S. Aren’t you guys always complaining that the government is bankrupt? How can that be possible if they have more money than anyone else in the world?)
August 25th, 2009 at 1:26 pmDimensio says:
I am aware of the egregious violations of civil liberties to which you refer. Are you suggesting that Mr. Obama’s security detail should engage in the same unreasonable abridgement of liberty?
Well, if we compare the rates of gun-related killings with those of Bush-shirts-related killings, we may see a reason for the Secret Service to pay more attention to attendants with guns.
August 25th, 2009 at 1:27 pmTracy__5 says:
STFU
August 25th, 2009 at 1:27 pmWow, is that statement dripping with irony.
August 25th, 2009 at 1:27 pmTracy__5 says:
No, it’s by far the U.S. government. Which entity has more money and power?
China.
August 25th, 2009 at 1:28 pmI’m sorry Tracy – is someone “telling you what to do”? If so – who is that?
I’m reminding you here about the mulberry bush, and how I will not chase your dishonest weasel ass around it much longer.
Get to the point, or get off the thread.
August 25th, 2009 at 1:29 pmNinerFan says:
——————————————————————————–
Stallman: “You socialists are fascists…”
I think Stallman’s off his meds.
August 25th, 2009 at 12:29 pm Vote Up | Vote Down | (5) | Report Unfortunately, they don’t make psychotic drugs as strong as they used to.
And Tracey666-Stop being a little chicken shit-and tell us what we really are.
You are a spoiled, arrogant, pimplehead.
atony and lido
August 25th, 2009 at 1:29 pm
Ah, Tracist is ramping up his game in the Nonsense Derby with Dick Stall man.
Too little too late, Tracist.
August 25th, 2009 at 1:30 pmYeah, the people in countries like Sweden and Canada are really miserable. What a brainwashed dumbass.
August 25th, 2009 at 1:31 pmExplain why “citizens” of European countries with socialized medicine feel they have more say in their government than Americans do.
August 25th, 2009 at 1:31 pmRichard Stallman says:
fascist socialists?
Now THAT’S funny.
You are aware that fascism and socialism are at opposite ends of the spectrum, aren’t you?
Richard?
Richard?
Richard?
Get educated you ignorant boob!
August 25th, 2009 at 1:32 pmJust like Dicked Bathroom Stallman, Tracist has absolutely no idea what he is talking about. He is merely regurgitating right-wing propaganda. Ask any of the leaders in Western Europe why they don’t get rid of their socialist national health care, and they will all tell you that the government would be toppled should they do that.
August 25th, 2009 at 1:40 pmTracy__5 says:
Which is where the largest corporation in the world i.e. the U.S. federal government runs everything?
Not everything, just health insurance. You’re applying a false choice between strawmen, which is a twofer in the fallacy department.
Fire departments, police and the military are all government run. Most commodities and services are not. Obviously, there should be a rational dividing line between what should be socialized and what should not. There has never been a country on Earth that has exactly 0% of socialized goods/services, nor has there been one that could have 100% of socialized goods and services. Neither would be sustainable, nor beneficial to the public interest.
As long as you hold to “all or nothing” thinking, you leave yourself out of the rational discussion of determining exactly how the dividing line appropriately should be drawn between those two extremes.
Also, calling the government a corporation once again demonstrates an inability to distinguish between macroeconomics and microeconomics. This belies any claim you may make to understanding any kind of rational economic principles.
PS: Not even replying to this “Richard Stallman” person any more. It isn’t debating, it’s just throwing out insults.
August 25th, 2009 at 1:40 pmFred says “your people”
Seriously Fred???? Who are “My” people?????
I spent way more money than I could afford to get Obama elected… I had signs on my lawn and stickers on my cars – I wore t-shirts – I became politically active for the first time in my life because I believed in him and his ideals.
So if by “My People” you mean compassionate, moralistic, follower of the founding fathers’ ideals and those who fight against corporations and fight for the little guy – then you are right but it wasn’t ME who made him seem that way, it was him, during his campaign…
and if you take the time to actually read my post I did “point out one single action that resembles the nazi’s.” – the one and ONLY action – his belief that “I was only following orders” is a legitimate defense…
August 25th, 2009 at 1:40 pmYou just described the 16 years of the Reagan and Bush Jr. administrations. Aren’t you proud?
August 25th, 2009 at 1:41 pmDo they even know what Hitler did? I really don’t even understand the correlation… not in my wildest thoughts could I connect the two.
August 25th, 2009 at 1:42 pmDid Grassley have anything to say about this guy? Did he condemn the remarks?
August 25th, 2009 at 1:44 pmOne also has to wonder why more choices is the same as “being told what to do”.
Surely, the insurance company has never guided my health choices. Never!
August 25th, 2009 at 1:44 pmAnd in your pee brain, what definitively is that control? Describe it for us if you can.
August 25th, 2009 at 1:45 pmtrevinla, I think you are just on your own side. A one person kind of a side.
You say things that don’t make sense and then want to argue about it.
I’m not going to scroll through a hundred posts to see what I said to you last so if you want to respond to me, try quoting me so I will know what the hell you are talking about.
Obama is not just like the republicans.
August 25th, 2009 at 1:49 pmOr perhaps they see the sense of government having control over certain segments of their economy.
Oddly enough, your anti-”government control” prejudice doesn’t allow you to see that in those countries where access to health care is provided as a public service rather than as a commercial commodity, the public has greater control over their individual health care. They can see a doctor whenever they need to, rather than trying to determine if their commercial provider will agree to pay the expense or waiting for a referral to get approved.
You really suffer for your lack of imagination, Tracist. I know, you don’t recognize it, but it’s plain to see for anyone outside of your head.
August 25th, 2009 at 1:50 pmIt’s because their governments make their lives better. Do you think Europeans keep their socilaist programs because the governments force them too? If so, you are even more stupid than the dumbass I thought you were.
August 25th, 2009 at 1:50 pmWhat control??
Do Swedes get directives on what color shirt to wear?
Are they told what job they’ll do? What time to get up in the morning? Whether to wear underpants or not? What? What? What “control” are you talking about, because no one can see it but you.
Stop alluding to things that just don’t exist Tracy.
It makes you sound fruity.
August 25th, 2009 at 1:51 pm“I’m a weasel, and here’s a mulberry bush.
Chase me monkeys, chase ME!!!!!”
Forget it. Not going to play.
Erase the posts and forget it, like a bad dream of plodding through sand going backwards.
August 25th, 2009 at 1:54 pmThat’s because he is fruity. Do you know that Tracist thinks Medicare is socialism, but Medicaid isn’t?
August 25th, 2009 at 1:56 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
I do not believe that the behaviour itself requires further explanation, as the statement “taking a gun to a Presidental town hall meeting” should be sufficient to establish the facts of a situation to any individual who possess a sufficient understanding of the English language. It should be noted, however, that such a statement is not an accurate representation of reality; no civilian in attendance at any “town hall” meeting hosted by President Obama has been in possession of any firearm; rather, firearms were possessed only by civilians who stood not only outside of the “town hall” meeting, but also outside of a security zone established by the United States Secret Service. The purpose of their presence, and of their openly displayed possession of firearms is also clear: they sought undeserved attention, and wished to take advantage of media presence to distract attention away from the relevant topic of discussion and onto themselves.
I am merely noting that the actions of individuals in possession of openly displayed firearms, however irrational and unnecessary, were not illegal.
Please explain the specific actions in which I have engaged that could constitute such a “wish”. I cannot conceive of any possible rational or honest interpretation of any action that I have taken that would lead to such a conclusion.
Please justify your assertion. Identify my “plan” and explain why it is “doomed to failure”.
August 25th, 2009 at 1:59 pmWere the individuals to whom you refer, who stood well outside of a security zone established by the United States Secret Service and who had no opportunity for any visual contact with the President of the United States, known for causing the deaths of other individuals? Do you suggest that the United States Secret Service “pay attention” to all civilians who own firearms, at all times, regardless of their location outside of an established security zone?
August 25th, 2009 at 2:01 pmWhy? Did Trotsky put too much emphasis on bipartisanship, too?
August 25th, 2009 at 2:01 pmwow – how did this thread become the magnet for hysterical ninnies today?
righty guys, if you’re genuinely “afraid” of Obama and D policies,
you are nothing more than hysterical ninnies.
August 25th, 2009 at 2:02 pmAnd then you go on to demand that I explain what I said about your failed plan, etc.
You know, when you can explain what you say requires no further explaination I will take you seriously. Until then, you are just an ignoramus with nothing.
August 25th, 2009 at 2:04 pmI have never suggested that individuals who openly carried firearms at various protests had done so for purposes of “protection”. While their firearms could have been used for such a purpose had the need arisen, the obvious purpose for their display of firearms was to take advantage of a media presence so that they could draw attention to themselves, without regard for the actual relevant topic of discussion.
What, specifically, do you believe is “my case”?
It makes you look like terrorists…..oh yeah.
August 25th, 2009 at 2:06 pm
202: Excellent comment.
A profit driven healthcare system will always look for ways to cut costs, increase revenues, and if anything NOT provide needed care. That is the case now and will continue to be w/o a public option.
The Tracy_5 ilk have no sense of what works best in private sector vs. govt. service.
August 25th, 2009 at 2:06 pmYour assertion implied that I had stated that I have a “plan”, when I have made no such statement.
I did not claim that my statements require no further explanation. I claimed that noting that an individual who openly carries a firearm requires no further explanation, because the statement means exactly that: an individual was in possession of an openly carried firearm. I have also posited a motive for such an action, even though you did not request such: such individuals are seeking to use present media coverage combined with their own actions as a means of drawing unnecessary and undeserved attention to themselves. Had you wished for an explanation of a statement that I have actually made, you should have requested such. It would appear, instead, that you would rather dishonestly ascribe motives to me that I do not hold and actions to me in which I have never engaged. This, however, does not constitute a validation of your position.
Your “ad hominem” attack constitutes neither a reasonable justification of your position nor a refutation of my statements.
August 25th, 2009 at 2:09 pmNo, Medicare isn’t enough.
it’s enough to make life easier for our senior citizens, but it has nothing to do with the mess that the “free market” has made of health insurance for the bulk of the nation’s population.
That’s because single-payer is a proven effective way to deliver access to health care as a public service rather than as a consumer good.
They have judged single payer a goal that is not realistically attainable in our current economy and political climate. So they seek to design the best system they can in order to address the crisis of rising costs and lack of coverage — both results of the “free market” approach to health insurance.
Health care should not be treated as a consumer good. It does not respond to the free market the same way that discretionary purchases respond. The idealized model is that the balance between supply and demand sets a natural price point that is relatively sustainable for both sides of the equation. Health care does not fit that model. Demand does not drop when the price gets too high, nor does it rise when the price drops. Demand for health care is essentially independent of free market dynamics. If people are sick or injured, they need care. If they are healthy, they simply require regular check-ups to stay that way.
Cheaper health care won’t inspire them to indulge in unnecessary surgeries or visits to urologists. Unless, of course, they are hypochondriacs, in which case there will presumably mental health care available as well.
August 25th, 2009 at 2:12 pmNo Tracist, it’s because you see evil phantoms and chimeras that aren’t really there.
August 25th, 2009 at 2:14 pmThis is just a lie. Prove it t5. The debt has not run up faster in the last 6 months than any other pres in history.
You lie.
August 25th, 2009 at 2:15 pmNo, you’re just the idiot who knows absolutely nothing about the world outside… but claims he does.
August 25th, 2009 at 2:15 pmyour ad hominem attacks lack substance and fact.
August 25th, 2009 at 2:18 pmOn June 20, 2009, the United States National Debt (total outstanding public debt) was $9,370,753,974,906.22
On January 20, 2009 (Mr. Bush’s final day in office), the United States National Debt (total outstanding public debt) was $10,626,877,048,913.08
This constitutes a change of approximately 1.25 trillion dollars.
On Feburary 25, 2009 (exactly six months ago) the United States National Debt was $10,837,499,231,127.11
Today, the National Debt is $11,719,258,192,538.99
As the difference between the national debt today is less than one trillion dollars, which is clearly less than the difference between the debt as of Mr. Bush’s final day in office as compared to the debt six months prior to that date, Tracy’s statement is demonstrably incorrect. In fact, in the slightly more than eight months since Mr. Obama took office, the total debt increase is actually slightly smaller than the debt increase that occurred during Mr. Bush’s final six months in office.
August 25th, 2009 at 2:26 pmIt is not my intention to engage in ad hominem attacks. Please reference the specific statement that you believe constituted such a breach of ettiquete.
August 25th, 2009 at 2:27 pmHence our lack of frightened recoiling when you unleash what you assume to be a terrifying epithet: socialist!!!!
Not everyone is as scared of an economic philosophy that permeates all of developed civilization as you are, Tracist. Best keep that in mind.
And how do you expect to get the “for profit part” out of health care, without government intervention?
(sigh) it’s like explaining everything to a child…
By “imagination” I meant that you tend to get locked into your own narrow interpretation of concepts — this response being a perfect example. I never said anything about single payer being “innovative”. It’s actually well-proven strategy. But for some reason, you seized on that idea rather than consider other, more logical explanations for my comment.
Your limited imagination doesn’t seem to allow you to consider the benefits of socialized health care delivery in whatever form or degree presents itself. All you see is “government control” and you hear ominous organ music in the background, presumably. It doesn’t help you, Tracist. that’s all I’m saying.
August 25th, 2009 at 2:29 pmI have noticed an obvious error in my calculation, as I calculated the final six months of Mr. Bush’s Presidential term starting with June 20, 2009 instead of the correct date of July 20, 2009. However, the debt as of that latter date was $9,518,251,647,355.40, which still means that the total change in debt was greater than one-trillion dollars, which itself is greater than the less than one-trillion dollar change of debt during the last six months of Mr. Obama’s presidency, thus the correction my error does not alter the validity of the conclusion that Tracy’s statement was incorrect.
August 25th, 2009 at 2:29 pmDimensio
you conveniently overlook the fact that the new President put ALL the debt back on the books, after 8 years of having most of it hidden under the bed.
no amount of mock-intellectual prose can disguise the fact that you’re a partisan LIAR.
August 25th, 2009 at 2:29 pmDimensio – I’m holding one finger up….
calculate which one it is.
good day to you.
I look forward to the erasure of all your posts, which should only take another half-hour.
August 25th, 2009 at 2:31 pmright wingers sure do get their hackles up when we point out how weak their positions are
August 25th, 2009 at 2:31 pmWhen are you going to explain what the goal of having guns at a presidential town hall meeting is?
What is the statement being made other than “if I don’t like what I hear I might shoot someone”
August 25th, 2009 at 2:35 pmAs my conclusion was that Tracy’s statement was incorrect, and that the increase of the national debt of the previous six months (being less than one-trillion dollars) was smaller than the increase of the national debt during Mr. Bush’s final six months in office (being greater than one-trillion dollars), I do not understand how my alleged “overlooking” of such a claim affects the validity of my statement. Even if the actual increase of the National Debt was legitimately smaller than reported, my conclusion, that the national debt has not increased by a greater amount in the previous six months than under any other Presidential administration, would remain factually correct. Moreover, I have also analyzed the increase of the United States national debt from the time of Mr. Obama’s first full day in office until exactly six months later; in that case, I have still observed a less than one-trillion dollar increase in the national debt, which is of course smaller than the greater than one-trillion dollar increase that occurred during the final six months of Mr. Bush’s presidency.
Which specific statement that I have made is a lie?
August 25th, 2009 at 2:36 pmAs I have already stated, the “goal” is the drawing of undeserved and unnecessary attention to the carriers of such firearms. This is likely the result of a psychological disorder, suggesting a narcissistic personality.
August 25th, 2009 at 2:37 pmI do not understand why you feel a need to insult me merely because I have demonstrated that Tracy’s claim, regarding the increase of the national debt, is false.
August 25th, 2009 at 2:38 pmdimensio,
You really are a dumb fuc*. If I was attending one of those meetings I’d feel threatened by anyone who would be enough of a lunatic to bring a gun.
I’d have to act appropriately for the safety of myself and others.
August 25th, 2009 at 2:40 pmi don’t play sophomore philosophy class games, Dimensio.
catch ya later, pal.
August 25th, 2009 at 2:40 pmYour statement does not justify claiming that I am a “liar” merely because I disproved the claim that the National Debt has increased more in the previous six months than in any other six-month period under any previous President. The fact remains that Tracy’s claim is false; claiming that I am a “liar” will not make Tracy’s claim correct.
August 25th, 2009 at 2:41 pmInsulting me does not lend credence to your position.
If I was attending one of those meetings I’d feel threatened by anyone who would be enough of a lunatic to bring a gun.
As no civilian in possession of a firearm would be permitted into the meeting, due to the security requirements of the United States Secret Service, your concern is with respect to an event that will not occur.
August 25th, 2009 at 2:42 pmYes, and he couldn’t bowl either.
August 25th, 2009 at 2:47 pmdimensio,
You lost any crediblity you MIGHT have had the momment you posted in defense of the gun carrying crazies.
You really are a dumb fuc*. I don’t care what you say, you are as much a lunatic as the people carrying guns.
Your position is indefensable in a civilized society, so why don’t you go post on redstate or some other lunatic fringe blog.
August 25th, 2009 at 2:50 pmThe problem for you right wingers, all of you, is that you knew about this problem and did nothing. Now you don’t matter.
You destroyed our reputation, our economy and failed to address the citizens needs. Now you are out on your ass.
Stop telling us how to fix what you screwed up.
August 25th, 2009 at 2:51 pmNo, you are the idiot liar who designs leaky buildings and blames the union workers.
August 25th, 2009 at 2:53 pmPlease identify the specific “defense” that I have offered. I have, thus far, merely noted that their actions are legal and demonstrative of a narcissistic personality.
Insulting me does not lend credency to your position.
Claiming that I am a “lunatic” does not lend credence to your position.
August 25th, 2009 at 2:54 pm
This comment has been voted down. Click to read.
dimensio,
I won’t bother to go re-read your posts. Besides, they are probably all voted down by now.
Going to pretend you didn’t post in favor of carrying guns to rallys? I’m not surprised.
August 25th, 2009 at 2:56 pmThe Swedes are oppressed by being forced to go to the Doctor?
Do they have to so that every day, or are they kept in “Healthcare Camps”?
August 25th, 2009 at 2:58 pmToo bad I have to go back to work. I haven’t read this many dellusional/crazy posts in some time.
Maybe these trolls are all part of the posse the old man was trying to get together.
August 25th, 2009 at 2:58 pmFunny how people like tracist never uttered a peep as Dubya racked up $7 trillion in debt with nothing to show for it, yet now he is all upset about government speending.
What an a$$.
August 25th, 2009 at 2:59 pmI made no statement “in favor” of carrying firearms to political rallies. I have noted only that the occurrence of such events, thus far, have been legal and I have also speculated that engaging in such an action suggests that the carriers possess a narcissistic personality; I have not stated that such an action is laudable or that it is recommended, nor have I expressed an interest in engaging in such action. That you refuse to review my posting history, and instead make such a claim about me without having actually studied my own statements demonstrates that you are willfully intellectually dishonest.
August 25th, 2009 at 2:59 pmRichard Stallman says:
And wingnuts worship their sacred leaders, never questioning anything, no matter how unAmerican it is.
August 25th, 2009 at 2:59 pmok janitor in a drum, prove it. You can’t because it’s not true.
It’s funny to watch you righties try to prove that someone else caused our problems and predict doom and gloom when it is you who has brought ruin upon us.
Here’s a clue t5, just because you say it don’t make it so. You have proven how little you know about the world you live in repeatedly.
You do just as you did in this post. Make an absurt assertion that you can’t prove and try to do an end run with it.
You are down on your own 1 yard line.
August 25th, 2009 at 3:00 pmtake a class dick. Your ignorance is out there for all to see.
You do realize that intelligent people who haven’t made their decisions are reading your drivil and see it for the ignorance that it is, right? carry on.
August 25th, 2009 at 3:01 pmFred Said:
And you can’t point out one single action that resembles the nazi’s.
It’s just dishonest and you only show that you have nothing left to fight with except to make Obama seem as bad as your people…..sad and disgusting.
Trevinla said:
Fred says “your people”
Seriously Fred???? Who are “My” people?????
I spent way more money than I could afford to get Obama elected… I had signs on my lawn and stickers on my cars – I wore t-shirts – I became politically active for the first time in my life because I believed in him and his ideals.
So if by “My People” you mean compassionate, moralistic, follower of the founding fathers’ ideals and those who fight against corporations and fight for the little guy – then you are right but it wasn’t ME who made him seem that way, it was him, during his campaign…
and if you take the time to actually read my post I did “point out one single action that resembles the nazi’s.” – the one and ONLY action – his belief that “I was only following orders” is a legitimate defense…
Fred said:
I’m not going to scroll through a hundred posts to see what I said to you last so if you want to respond to me, try quoting me so I will know what the hell you are talking about.
Trevinla says
Try “find” – that way you can stay accountable to your comments…
Fred Said:
trevinla, I think you are just on your own side. A one person kind of a side.
You say things that don’t make sense and then want to argue about it.
Trevinla says
I’m not arguing – I’m just explaining my opinion – to argue would be to try to convert you to my opinion… I don’t expect that – I just hope people will look at everything the Gov’t is doing rather than following blindly the way the Republicans do …
but I do ask you to state what I said that doesn’t make sense…
August 25th, 2009 at 3:02 pmIn fact, I have actually proven that the claim is not true. Curiously, I have actually been attacked and insulted for providing such proof.
August 25th, 2009 at 3:02 pmOh Stallman – you are just too funny…
I just can’t wait to poke you with a stick once you’re in the camps.
August 25th, 2009 at 3:02 pmNo other president has spend more money in 6 months than Obama has.
Not if you count the money Bush shoveled to AIG, and the rest of the financial giants, plus war spending.
August 25th, 2009 at 3:02 pmBut, I actually work for a living…unlike yourself.
Don’t you just love it when they jump to conclusions?
Remember “drones of death,” and “mobile weapons factories?”
Go change your dirty shorts, and get back to us.
August 25th, 2009 at 3:03 pmThere is no logic behind this statement (something I’m used to by now when dealing with your comments). The difference is, you seem to think there is.
If one approach has made a mess of something, why would you NOT go in the opposite direction?
So we can only start “looking at it” once certain criteria have been met? That’s odd… most open-minded people who seek to solve problems look at all possible solutions on their merits, weigh their drawbacks AND THEN consider intangible criteria like public support.
You apparently do it backwards. Explains a lot.
And as for your criterion, there is some evidence that it has been met.
Um… no. You’re making one of your patented false equivalencies. Either that, or you really don’t understand what you’re talking about.
Food and shelter ARE properly handled as consumer commodities. Both respond to free market dynamics as expected. When there is a glut of certain food products, prices drop. Likewise, when there is a glut of available housing (as today) prices drop.
There is no similar downward pressure on health care costs. That is the basis of the whole problem we face.
Also, producers of food and housing both profit when they deliver what they have promised. Health insurers, on the other hand, profit more when they DENY the coverage they promised.
August 25th, 2009 at 3:03 pmTracy__5 says:
Because they don’t mind that the government has more control over their lives.
Already, the government won’t let you murder or rob people. They won’t let your house burn to the ground. Now they’re taking away your freedom to get sick and die too? Horrors!
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Tracy__5 says:
So Medicare isn’t enough? What’s next? You know that the government can never do with less because it NEVER has.
Again, pointless slippery slope argument. Let me try: if we don’t socialize medicine, what else will we unsocialize? What’s next? No military? No police?!?
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Tracy__5 says:
Exactly. That right there is the of the fulcrum of just about every domestic issue debate. The ultimate goal of the current administration is to have government be the sole insurer for the entire country. This so-called “public option” in the works today is a just a first step. Obama and Frank and many others in Congress have expressed their desire for government run single payer system.
I would prefer single-payer as well. The simple fact is, some endeavors work better competitively (free market), and others work better cooperatively (government run). In the discussion regarding which qualifies as which, someone who claims that everything should be free market on principle disqualifies them as much as someone who claims we should be a totalitarian communist state. Everybody else is somewhere in the middle, where we can have a productive discussion. But your dogmatic approach excludes you from reasonable debate just as much as if it were completely reversed.
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Tracy__5 says:
“Also, calling the government a corporation once again demonstrates an inability to distinguish between macroeconomics and microeconomics.”
They are both run about the same except one seems to have an unlimited amount of money therefore they don’t have to be frugal.
There are other differences as well. I’m not going to paste in an entire Econ 101 lesson here for you; suffice it to say that governments deal with overall economic environments, whereas businesses function as actors within economic environments. Your claim is about as reasonable and knowledgeable as saying that a lake is a fish.
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Tracy__5 says:
And the last six months unfortunately. Debt run up faster than any other president in history. Thanks Obama.
Nope, that’d be Bush, particularly in his last few months in office. Facts must suck for you, huh?
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Tracy__5 says:
So what about food and shelter? Just asking.
Good point. There are lots of different ways to provide food and shelter, lots of different kinds of food and shelter, and therefore lots of different ways that innovation can take place. Health insurance is one simple thing, and no innovation has taken place in that area in over 100 years, unless you count inventing complicated loopholes invented to cheat the consumer. Which I don’t.
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Tracy__5 says:
However letting one entity, i.e. the federal government control the industry is the wrong way to go.
… except in any country where it’s ever been tried.
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Tracy__5 says:
Tort reform is a LONG over due one.
Removing your constitutional right to bring suit against someone who has harmed you, and therefore letting incompetent doctors off the hook would lead to worse health outcomes, not better. You’re actually stating here that the solution to the problem is to increase the degree to which people are allowed to die.
Has it occurred to you to perhaps stop being an evil person?
August 25th, 2009 at 3:05 pmI know a girl who lives in Norway. Last night she told me that she was just diagnosed with stomach cancer. The government is forcing her to have an operation, then they are going to imprison her for a month, while they torture her with radiation. Then she will be sent to what they refer to as a place to “relax” for another month, so that she has no choice but to recuperate.
And after all that, the evil government will not even allow her the freedom to pay for it.
August 25th, 2009 at 3:05 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
I see Stallman’s back, tapping his foot impatiently.
August 25th, 2009 at 3:06 pmThen you have no excuse for being as ignorant as you demonstrate.
And by the way… I too work for a living. What made you think otherwise?
August 25th, 2009 at 3:06 pmwho and what and what is your point? If you speak in riddles you will be misunderstood. Time for you to speak clearly. Say what you mean. Make a point. get it?
August 25th, 2009 at 3:09 pmno Dick – it will be before that.
but don’t worry – i don’t plan on sharpening my stick.
August 25th, 2009 at 3:10 pmis the name stallman on the list? No? Add it.
August 25th, 2009 at 3:12 pmFred – Trev is talking about the (so far) non-prosecution of US parties for rendition, torture, etc.
But trev should know that we’re still in the beginning of this – not at the end looking back and passing judgement. I’m sure he’d agree we’re going to have to wait and see, even though we feel impatient about the process.
It may end up he’s right, but I’ll wait til the end to decide whether Obama failed on that count, and issued a free pass to whose whose defense was “only following orders”.
August 25th, 2009 at 3:13 pmTracy – GET BACK TO WORK – ya lazy gold-bricker.
I’d fire you for wasting this much time screwing around on a lefty blog.
(You know why I don’t get fired for it? Because I am the Boss where I work – the President and CEO)
August 25th, 2009 at 3:16 pmThe fascist leftists here want the government to control every aspects of their lives – very similar to the Taliban.
It’s no wonder that the fascist socialists are always sticking up for Al Qaeda and Taliban operatives.
You’re on the same side as the islamo-fascists
August 25th, 2009 at 3:17 pmpssst – hey Dick….
poke.
poke. poke.
you’re a fascist – and a terrorist.
August 25th, 2009 at 3:18 pmSo Tracey 666 is in construction?
August 25th, 2009 at 3:29 pmSo were the Monroe Bros.(Green Acres).
Amd I wouldn’t hire them either.
tony and lido
That’s what you get when you hire unqualifed scab labor,
August 25th, 2009 at 3:30 pmTracey 666.
And it would seem they were following your instructions.
So yes, as in all jobs, the boss is responsible for the whole chain of work.
You lose.
tony and lido
pop!
goes the wea-sel.
August 25th, 2009 at 3:39 pmThese references do not validate your previous claim. You had stated that the increase of the national debt in the previous six months was greater than the increase in a six month period during any previous Presidential administration. I have already shown that the increase of the national debt of the previous six months was less than one-trillion dollars, while the national debt increase during the final six months of Mr. Bush’s administration was greater than one-trillion dollars.
August 25th, 2009 at 3:43 pmRichard Stallman says:
You’re on the same side as the islamo-fascists
Your mom’s an islamo-fascist-communist-traitor-pinko-babysnatching-murderous-abortion-doctor.
There, now can the grown-ups have a debate? You go play with your Malibu Barbie Concentration Camp Playset or something.
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Tracy__5 says:
That would require me letting you turn this country into another Cuba…no deal.
Fixing health care = we’re Cuba? Again, strawman / false choice fallacy. Please stop doing that.
August 25th, 2009 at 3:46 pmCoops might be a better solution. Allowing insurance companies to offer plans over state lines would be another idea. Tort reform is a LONG over due one.
Tort reform?! You guys say it as if it’ll solve all our problems and our premiums would go down 99%…Yeah, right…
August 25th, 2009 at 3:47 pmUCSBKitty says:
Tort reform?! You guys say it as if it’ll solve all our problems and our premiums would go down 99%…Yeah, right…
All “tort reform” would do is let doctors commit malpractice at will and if they egregiously screw up there’s nothing you can do about it except take it and shut up.
The standard right-wing approach to any problem: make it even worse. Basically they pick something else they want on their agenda and present it as the solution to the problem their last agenda item caused. I’m surprised they haven’t proposed removing restrictions on coal mining as a fix for the health care crisis. Yet.
Remember, when a Republican uses the word “reform” what they really mean is “destroy.” In this case, they’d destroy your right to sue quacks for ruining your life.
August 25th, 2009 at 3:58 pmThe right-wing blames Democrats, non-whites, homosexuals, feminists, pro-choicers for their problems. Just as the Nazis blamed the Jews.
If anyone is a facist, it’s the right-wing crackpots, and the GOP and MSM that enable them.
August 25th, 2009 at 4:09 pmIf you count that as proof of anything beyond evidence that the gop put us in this financial crisis then you are a bigger fool than we thought you were.
August 25th, 2009 at 4:11 pmLike oil companies? See, it doesn’t hold water.
August 25th, 2009 at 4:24 pmLet’s see, Tracy has told us that Sweden’s government run national health care system, which covers every person in the country, is not socialism, but the Democrat’s public option is communism, just like Cuba.
Another classic, dumbass liar.
August 25th, 2009 at 4:28 pmTracy__5 says:
You think that Medicare is not in a mess today and that there aren’t serious funding problems?
There will always be problems with any public endeavor for the reason that its operations are open to the public. Companies have problems too, but we don’t get to know about them and discuss them in public, so they seem relatively perfect. But they are not, as anybody who has ever had a job knows.
If you think Medicare is such a mess, I dare you to try to take it away from seniors. Then you’ll find out just how valuable they find it to be.
.
Convince the American people that this is a good idea…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Sweden
“The typical worker receives only 40% of his income after the tax wedge.”
Nobody is talking about doing the full Swedish thing all the way. We aren’t even talking about using Sweden’s health care model. On none of the plans under discussion (even single payer) does health care become government-run. Only health insurance. They are two different things.
Again, false-choice strawman argument. Taking on one aspect of country X does not make us like country X in all aspects. Please stop saying that it does.
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Tracy__5 says:
And in those polls it says nothing about the middle class getting a tax increase which is what will happen no matter what Obama says about not raising taxed for people earning 250k or less.
Kindly point me to the portion of the health care bill that says that, thanks.
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Tracy__5 says:
Why should they be according to the socialist idea that healthcare is a right….should not food and shelter be a “right”?
I explained this at length in a previous post. Please page up and review.
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Tracy__5 says:
If the insurance companies were allowed/demaned to actually compete with each other across state lines they would deliver a better product.
You mean like when the Gramm-Leach-Bliley act made it legal for investment banks to compete across state lines? Yeah, how’d that work out, anyway?
Repbublicanthink: I know, let’s do the same thing for health care that we did for investment banking! It’s sure to work this time!
August 25th, 2009 at 4:32 pmTracy__5
save it t5, there are bad designs out there, especially in schools. I’ve seen it, you’ve seen it, and probably, your’e responsible for it.
August 25th, 2009 at 5:06 pmNo t5, the surprise is that it has had a huge effect and that’s why the desperation on the right.
cause/effect
democratic success/republican panic
August 25th, 2009 at 5:10 pmt5, now you’re just being dishonest. That’s not what the post said and for you to represent it the way you did makes you look dishonest. Is that ok with you? That we would consider you to be dishonest?
Because if you are not interested in honesty then we really don’t have a place for you in consideration of real issues.
It is of course up to you. You can admit that you misrepresented what was said or you can continue to be the butt of jokes at your expense.
August 25th, 2009 at 5:15 pmTracy__5 says:
“Now they’re taking away your freedom to get sick and die too?”
Spoken like a good old socialist…”only the government can save you from yourself”.
Disease or injury =/= myself.
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Tracy__5 says:
“…if we don’t socialize medicine, what else will we unsocialize? What’s next? No military? No police?!?”
Go look at the Constitution…please.
In case you missed it, I was demonstrating how your slippery slope argument worth both ways. And I have looked at the Constitution repeatedly. In every case, the wingnut telling me what the Constution says was flat out wrong.
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Tracy__5 says:
A single payer system that has a single entity which controls so much of our expenditures is not “in the middle” as you claim.
Look idiot, if you list all of the possible goods/services that can be provided, if some of them are public and most of them are private, then we’re somewhere in the middle. You can’t be so stupid as to have honestly misunderstood what I was saying, so I’ll assume that you intentionally misunderstood it.
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Tracy__5 says:
“Your claim is about as reasonable and knowledgeable as saying that a lake is a fish.”
To not acknowledge that the U.S. government does not operate, i.e. spend money in the same environment in which it regulates show how little you know about their similarities.
The government does remove and reintroduce money to/from the system. But like I said, go read an economics textbook and quit arguing your ignorance with me.
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Tracy__5 says:
No president has spent more in six months than Obama.
I notice that the numbers you’re citing include putting the Iraq war on-budget, wich Bush didn’t count. They also use different projection calculations between Bush and Obama, which makes him look worse. So I guess if you rig the game enough you can claim anything you want.
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Tracy__5 says:
“There are lots of different ways to provide food and shelter”
So the government should provide these things in the same manner as you think they should provide health insurance?
No, I was saying the government shouldn’t be the provider of food and shelter, for the reasons I cited. Which you read. And then pretended I said something else.
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Tracy__5 says:
“… except in any country where it’s ever been tried.”
Again look at their tax rates, convince the American people to make due with 40% of the net pay as Swedes do and then we can have a serious discussion.
We’re talking about health care, not the economy overall. Which I pointed out, and you ignored.
France provides the #1 ranked health care in the world (we’re #37) and does it for about half of what we pay.
But if you want to argue about overall relative quality of life between here and Sweden we could do that. You’d lose, it’s irrelevant, and I’m not advocating that kind of an economic structure for America anyways, but we could do that.
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Tracy__5 says:
Talk about going to extremes! Tort reform should involve not letting a lawyer con someone into going for millions in order to make his pockets deeper.
Strawman argument. You’re saying that removing peoples’ rights to sue for malpractice would fix the health care crisis. It’s obvious that it would do the opposite.
August 25th, 2009 at 5:17 pmThey do it all the time tracy. Most doctors involved in malpractice suits are multiple offenders.
The doctors allow them to practice and then wonder why incidents of malpractice seem to increase.
If you doubt this I encourage you to do an honest investigation into the facts. I think that if you are honest, and that might disqualify you, that you will take back your erronious statement.
August 25th, 2009 at 5:19 pmhonestly now, you don’t believe that there are monopolies in corporate America?
August 25th, 2009 at 5:22 pmThis is sort of pointless I suppose but just what does Tracy_5 think the government should provide and why does Tracy__5 always seem to think anybody gives a damn about what Tracy__5 may or may not do for a living…
August 25th, 2009 at 5:25 pmTracy__5 says:
You think that doctors would remain doctors much less in business if they did committed malpractice “at will” as you falsely claim?
Happens all the time right now, even with the right to sue for malpractice in effect.
Your prescription for the problem is to actually really and for true take away peoples’ rights.
August 25th, 2009 at 5:38 pmTracy__5 says:
If I had been FORCED to pay into a system for 30 years I would want to be paid out one way or another. And in this case guess what?…they only have one option…accept Medicare as is.
Not at all. Old people can buy private insurance if they want.
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Tracy__5 says:
“On none of the plans under discussion (even single payer) does health care become government-run. Only health insurance.”
But that is the MAIN cost problem isn’t it?
Nope. Insurance is the problem, and insurance is what’s being looked at.
Let me repeat: in none of the plans under discussion does health care itself become public. Only insurance.
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Tracy__5 says:
“Kindly point me to the portion of the health care bill that says that, thanks.”
Why would it?
Why would it say what you say it says? OK, thanks for conceding the point.
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Tracy__5 says:
You didn’t cite what types of “innovations” would allow food and shelter to become a right as many think healthcare should be.
You’ve got what I was saying backwards. I was saying food and shelter are best served by a free market because there is a wide variety of different kinds that can be provided in different ways.
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Tracy__5 says:
“You mean like when the Gramm-Leach-Bliley act made it legal for investment banks to compete across state lines?”
You are attempting to compare the health insurance industry to the banking industry? The auto insurance industry proves your lame comparison.
You were just saying that removing regulation from health insurance to (among other things) operate across state lines would make it more efficient. This is precisely what the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act did for investment banking, and it led directly to the catastrophic failure of that industry.
August 25th, 2009 at 5:43 pmExcept that it doesn’t, in the real world (not that Tracist has ever been concerned with what goes on in the real world).
In 2003, the state of Texas limited malpractice awards at $250,000 regardless of the amount of damage suffered.
The result? Insurance companies made more money, but did not pass those savings along to consumers.
On the contrary, Texas capped malpractice damages in 2003 only to experience a steep rise in health insurance premiums and medical costs.
Medicare spending rose 24 percent in the three years after punitive damages were capped at $250,000, according to the Dartmouth Institute for Health Policy.
But as always, Tracist clings to an answer that satisfies him emotionally but in practice is a delusion.
August 25th, 2009 at 5:45 pmt5, you have just shown yourself to be an arrogant pos and I am through with you. You know nothing and you solve nothing.
You bring nothing to the table and you act like you are relevant. News flash, you are not.
If you ever grow up, come back and try again. I will not respond to you again until you do because you don’t deserve anyone here’s attention.
August 25th, 2009 at 5:50 pmTracy__5 says:
If you think healthcare is a “right”, cite this in the U.S. Constitution. Providing for the common defense however is very obvious.
I never said health care is a right. Please stop using straw-man arguments.
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Tracy__5 says:
We already were “in the middle” jackass. Moving it away from “the middle” i.e. this split between private and public goods/services is what this single payer system would do.
A single payer system would completely socialize health insurance. But only that one industry.
That’s irrelevant because single payer is “off the table” in Congress anyways.
You know what’s on the table? Your mom. That’s right.
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I’m done trying to explain basic economics to you. Like I said repeatedly, go find a textbook if you want to know what “macroeconomics” is.
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Tracy__5 says:
“You’re saying that removing peoples’ rights to sue for malpractice would fix the health care crisis…”
Why do you falsely equate tort reform with removing people’s right to sue for malpractice?
Because that’s what “tort reform” is. Whenever a Republican refers to “tort reform,” they’re referring to a specific legislative proposal that restricts the rights of malpractice victims to sue the quacks who ruined their lives.
August 25th, 2009 at 6:05 pmNo, we would still be in the middle. Unless you define “the middle” really, really narrowly.
See, this is the type of lack of imagination I was talking about above. You’re so focused on black-and white “socialism/not socialism” paradigms that you have no tolerance for nor understanding of the concept of shades of gray. You act as if this one issue would be the catastrophic tipping point into some imagined “socialistic” hell hole. Well, at least when it comes to imagining dire outcomes, you display some imagination.
In fact, most of Europe is far more socialistic than even the most ambitious single-payer plan suggested would make us, and they’re for the most part, pretty darn satisfied with their lives and opportunities.
Now, you can disparage their tastes — and you have and you will — but you face a really steep climb to prove your claim that any of this will destroy our country, when our cultural cousins do just fine and even look at us as if we were stupid for not following suit, for putting our health care in the hands of corporate bureaucrats accountable only to their shareholders.
August 25th, 2009 at 6:13 pmDo you not think that there are patients legitimately injured, even devastated by malpracticing doctors?
What about them?
They should just “suck it up”, or what?
August 25th, 2009 at 6:15 pmTracy, the brainwashed corporatist fool, will now proceed to studiously ignore this fact.
August 25th, 2009 at 6:19 pmIt’s what Tracist does.
August 25th, 2009 at 6:21 pmBut, welfare is socialism. Tracy you must be a communist if you support welfare.
August 25th, 2009 at 6:21 pmTracy__5 says:
The should provide for the common defense and promote the general welfare.
I absolutely agree. Having a health care system that provides actual health care for everyone with controlled costs falls directly under “promoting the general welfare” more than just about anything the government does already.
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Tracy__5 says:
“Nope. Insurance is the problem, and insurance is what’s being looked at.”
I just said health insurance is the main problem with costs.
I agree with that statement. I’ll mark it down as another concession by you.
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Tracy__5 says:
There are ways that healthcare insurance can be served with the say free market.
Nope. Health insurance is too simple. You pay into it, it (hopefully) pays to cover your doctor bill. There has been essentially no change in what it provides, or how, in over a century.
Any innovations they could have made, they’ve had ample time to. All we’ve gotten for it is spiraling costs, effective fraud, and lack of coverage overall. They have failed.
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Tracy__5 says:
“You were just saying that removing regulation from health insurance to (among other things) operate across state lines would make it more efficient.”
Allowing them to compete with each other would. It would force competition. Removing regulations that allowed the banking industry to do the same is not what caused them to fail.
Removing regulations from the investment banking industry is what caused them to fail. The practices that directly caused their failure are the ones that were made legal through deregulation. If it hadn’t been deregulated, they wouldn’t have done the things that brought their industry to collapse, because those things still would have been illegal.
I hope I’m explaining this in simple enough terms for you, because you are a breathtakingly stupid person.
August 25th, 2009 at 6:27 pm“Opening up the health insurance market to more vigorous nationwide competition, as we have done over the last decade in banking, would provide more choices of innovative products less burdened by the worst excesses of state-based regulation.”
- John McCain, Contingencies, Sept. 2008
Tracist and John McCain both want to do to our health care system what McCain and the Republicans did to our banking system.
Good thinking, Tracist.
August 25th, 2009 at 6:27 pmI notice Tracist dismissed my links as an “OPINION article”.
Funny, the Dallas Morning News piece is billed as a NEWS article. Guess Tracist skipped over that one.
August 25th, 2009 at 6:39 pmTracist, you have said a couple of times now that the “profit motive is a problem”.
How do you expect free market competition and innovation to work properly without a “profit motive”?
And how do you plan to get rid of the “profit motive” without government intervention?
I missed it when you answered these questions before.
August 25th, 2009 at 6:42 pmYes, it’s a big issue. It’s got a heavy hand in bankrupting our country right now. Whether it’s a big issue is not the point. What you conveniently left out of my point was your “all or nothing” mentality that tries to claim that socialized medicine will make us a “socialist country” when in fact all that will happen on that score is that we’ll be further toward one end than we were, but still in the middle. And one could well argue that, after twenty years of Republican administrations (sixteen of them among the most radical right administrations this nation has ever seen) we have been pushed too far the other way, and a big step toward socialized medicine would simply take us back toward the middle.
Point is, we’d still be in the middle. You find this easy to ignore.
No, it won’t destroy our country.
Your hysterics notwithstanding, people on the Right said the same thing about Social Security and about Medicare, and those two programs more than anything else lifted an entire segment of the population — senior citizens — out of poverty, and they are among the most popular programs run by the government in the nation.
August 25th, 2009 at 6:50 pmTo Stallman,
What point are you trying to make? You already lose any argument by throwing out such an outlandish statement that is as meaningless as an elementary school kid’s taunting. No one here worships Pol Pot, Stalin or Hitler, and you’re only flaunting your ignorance by repeatedly referring to Hitler as a “leftist.” Fascism comes from the right, Dickhead.
Richard Stallman says:
August 25th, 2009 at 6:51 pmThis comment has been voted down.
The leftists on this site worship the likes of Pol Pot, Stalin, Hitler, and other leftists
Tracist, do you know what the top marginal tax rate was in the 1950s?
Do you know how much debt this nation faced at that time?
Do you know what happened to the economy?
August 25th, 2009 at 6:52 pmI have lived in a country with a public option, so I can say that the government had no control over which doctor/hospital I chose to visit nor over which pharmacy I used to have a prescription filled.
August 25th, 2009 at 6:54 pmSee, here’s part of the problem: “socialism in the sense that YOU’RE talking about” is much, much different than “socialism in the sense that WE’RE talking about”.
You’re talking about some vague, ominous disease that kills its host before moving on to other unsuspecting lands.
We’re talking about communities that accept shared burdens and shared benefits. Like fire protection. Law enforcement. Universal education. You know… stuff that doesn’t work well under the free market dynamic.
August 25th, 2009 at 6:57 pmAnd how would damage award caps address this issue?
You do realize, don’t you, that damage award caps are pretty much what folks mean when they talk about “tort reform”. Hence your “ambulance-chasing lawyers” remark.
August 25th, 2009 at 7:05 pmTracy__5 says:
for the last time, have Obama stop lying to the American people the taxes will not be raised on the middle class and we can discuss this single payer system.
We’re not discussing single payer. Single payer isn’t one of the options under discussion.
If the overall cost is massively cheaper, as it is in all the other developed nations, then what’s the difference between paying it through taxes and paying it through premiums? How much is your dogma worth?
August 25th, 2009 at 7:42 pmHITLER VS OBAMA
(QUESTION): Why do you continue to support a Nazi policy as Obama has expressly supported this policy? Why are you supporting it? [...]
(REPLY): Rep. Barney Frank (D-MA): On what planet do you spend most of your time? … You want me to answer the question? Yes. You stand there with a picture of the President defaced to look like Hitler and compare the effort to increase health care to the Nazis. My answer to you is, as I said before, it is a tribute to the First Amendment that this kind of vile, contemptible nonsense is so freely propagated.
At (ThinkProgress.Org.) article by Nate Carlile
(Your Just Like Your!)
Now, the idea of comparing the Media Messiah Imperial President to any other leader no matter who it would be is a novel idea, with no particular thing else to do. It’s like having kids and the mother having it out with one of them and what do you hear (Your Just Like Your Father), or she/he looks like her grandmother, or aunt, and the real answer is that all individuals are unique not one is like another even twins. So since we are going to waste time making comparisons let’s waste time.
(Rock Stars)
Is Obama the Media Messiah Imperial President like Hitler, YES! And at the same time Bill Clinton, Martin Luther King, and many other orators able to use their voices and mesmerize large groups of people, Hitler at the (1934) Nuremberg rallies, and the Triumph des Willens, is a master piece of art done by Leni Riefenstahl, Hitler was the Rock Star of his time. So is Obama like Hitler YES! And what planet are we on Planet Earth, The Media Messiah Imperial President has proven the ability to be elected but lacking adequate Leadership skills, for the office.
(Inadequate Leadership)
Obama unlike Hitler has proven that it is one thing to get elected to an office and quite another to be the man for the office. The Media Messiah Imperial President has shown much like Jimmy (Peanut) Carter his inability to lead. And Sun Tzu reminds us that when (EMPIRES), in the Orient or Occident, are lost when inadequate men become leaders and wage war for base reasons or no reason at all. And here once again it could be said as the arch-conservative cartoonist David Low once quipped, (I have never met anyone who wasn’t against war. Even Hitler and Mussolini, were according to themselves) so Obama is according to himself, yet we are hearing words of a long bloody campaign (Af-Pak), when throughout history there is no instance of a country having benefited from prolonged warfare.
(Napoleon I, letter to the King of Holland 1807)
(A prince, who gets a reputation for good nature in the first year of reign, is laughed at in the second.) Or, a Media Messiah Rock Star who gets elected the first year but fails the test of leadership will not only be laughed at in the second but will be scorned by those governed.
HERCULE TRIATHLON SAVINIEN
August 25th, 2009 at 8:59 pmTRIATHLON
or he will just let you punch yourself silly and step in and drop yo like a rock.
You’re easy, you lead with your nose.
August 25th, 2009 at 9:12 pmTRIATHLON says:
HITLER VS OBAMA
The only citation I could find for the text you copy/pasted was a comment blog on BBC. Please include links in future posts to avoid plagiarism.
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TRIATHLON says:
Media Messiah Imperial President
Bush?
Oh wait, right-wingers like to refer to Barack Obama as “the Messiah.” Apparently you want to crucify him. I’ve never heard a left-winger call him that.
He’s hardly “Imperial” in any sense, particularly as compared with his predecessor, who I’ll assume you approved of. That would be the guy who claimed that a “wartime President” was unconstrained by law, who floated the “unitary executive theory” (i.e. fascism) and who penned signing statements undermining the very laws he was signing. In short, Imperial.
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TRIATHLON says:
Is Obama the Media Messiah Imperial President like Hitler, YES! And at the same time Bill Clinton, Martin Luther King, and many other orators able to use their voices…
Reagan too? Nixon had a pretty good run, while we’re at it. Speaking to people is what all politicans do. Being good at it is the mark of any successful politician. So in that regard, sure. On the other hand, both Obama and Hitler wore pants, so you could have mentioned that as well.
But for my money, I think Hitler’s oratory is overrated. He always sounded like a screechy little maniac to me.
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TRIATHLON says:
Hitler at the (1934) Nuremberg rallies, and the Triumph des Willens, is a master piece of art done by Leni Riefenstahl, Hitler was the Rock Star of his time.
Man, the 2008 RNC convention was sure well choreographed, wasn’t it? All the shouting and balloons and anger and stuff? All the GOP speechifiers saying mean and cruel things about the Democrats, as well as vilifying large portions of America just to rile up “the base?” Remember McCain chanting “fight fight fight fight?” Yeah, that was quite a show. Since we’re comparing rallies and all…
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TRIATHLON says:
The Media Messiah Imperial President has shown much like Jimmy (Peanut) Carter his inability to lead.
He’s leading just fine. You know what’s the opposite of leadership? Saying “you’re with us or against us” and the like. Leadership consists of effective organization and communication, two things which Barack Obama has excelled at both before and after the inauguration.
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TRIATHLON says:
And Sun Tzu reminds us that when (EMPIRES), in the Orient or Occident, are lost when inadequate men become leaders and wage war for base reasons or no reason at all.
George W. Bush most certainly invaded Iraq for “base reasons or no reason at all.” George W. Bush is not Barack Obama. Those are two different people. Barack Obama has started no wars, and has nearly ended one of them.
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TRIATHLON says:
yet we are hearing words of a long bloody campaign (Af-Pak), when throughout history there is no instance of a country having benefited from prolonged warfare.
Remember 9/11? Or is it no longer politically convenient for you to do so?
August 25th, 2009 at 9:21 pmElBruce, my hat’s off to you.
To have the gumption to wade into that morass of corpulent verbiage that is a standard Triathlon post, and then dissect it so precisely, is truly the sign of master troll slayer.
August 25th, 2009 at 9:47 pmTo add to my Post #349, in Japan under the national health insurance plan, I never experienced any government control or interference in selecting or changing a doctor, pharmacy, dentist, or hospital. On the other hand, when I was in a car accident in that country and my medical care was supposed to be covered by the insurance company of the man who caused the crash, I had to fight with the insurance people to change hospitals, etc.
August 25th, 2009 at 10:09 pmralph the wonder llama says:
ElBruce, my hat’s off to you.
Thanks. I just can’t let crazy crap like that stand, no matter how much I have to hold my nose to deal with it.
August 25th, 2009 at 11:49 pmI’ve lived in Arizona for 36 years. Since these provacative displays started, I’ve called my two senators, McCain and Kyl, both leaders in the Republican party, several times, asking that they disregard politics and speak forcefully against the gathering momentum toward violence. After Tom Eisenhower’s threat (no, not veiled; it was a threat on the President’s life)in Grassley’s meeting, I called McCain’s office and again, asked that he speak out to try to control this situation. The staff member in McCain’s Phoenix office told me that she would call the senator’s office in Washington right away. The Senator’s response: deadly silence.
August 26th, 2009 at 1:11 amAh ha ha ha! Tracy, the pathological liar admonishing another to tell the truth!
What a f ucking a$$hole.
August 26th, 2009 at 2:19 amI’m left wondering why these people haven’t been educated about Godwin’s law?
GF42
August 26th, 2009 at 3:41 amI am more than a little surprised that Grassley said and did nothing. A threat on the President, however veiled, is still a threat and should never be tolerated. Everyone, no matter their party, should be taking this sort of thing personally.
This fire that the Republican party unleashed is now near to being out of control. It could as easily burn down their own houses as it grows.
August 26th, 2009 at 8:42 amHa, Tracist just slam dunked himself!
August 26th, 2009 at 1:10 pmI don’t know whether you are being disingenuous or just stupid, but your cyical republican leaders know that if we get a national health care system, the people will never give it up. Unlike you, they look around the world and see that fact.
Are you a fool or a liar. Oh, I know. You are both.
August 26th, 2009 at 1:14 pmAccording to Tracist, everyone else is a liar, and only he tells the truth. When his buildings leak it is everyone else’s fault. Tracist, everyone here knows you are a liar. To lie to people who know you are lying makes you a sociopath. What a jackass. Get help.
August 26th, 2009 at 1:19 pmSocial Security runs a SURPLUS you dumber than dirt POS.
August 26th, 2009 at 3:55 pmJust when I think you can’t get any stupider. European governments do not force public health car on the people. The people demand public health care. Dumb, dumber, totally f ucking stupid.
August 26th, 2009 at 3:56 pmMost racists don’t know they being bigoted because it so ingrained in you. Ask your invisible black best friend about it.
August 26th, 2009 at 3:59 pmOnce again you forgot what you lied about and got caught. You said the economy is weak NOW because of Social Security debt. You get caught in your lies everytime.
August 26th, 2009 at 4:29 pmAs far as the future of SS, that’s easy, just remove the cap on FISA payments. Done deal.
August 26th, 2009 at 4:32 pmYou do realize they have elections in Europe, don’t you.
F ucking idiot.
August 26th, 2009 at 4:34 pmI told you, ask your invisible black best friend.
August 26th, 2009 at 4:35 pmhealthcare..I got one for you:
The wonk room
Flashback: Republicans Opposed Medicare In 1960s By Warning of Rationing, ‘Socialized Medicine’
http://thinkprogress.org/2009/07/29/medicare-flashback/
August 26th, 2009 at 4:37 pmhttp://dir.salon.com/story/tech/feature/2003/06/12/tax_cuts_and_social_security/index.html
another one..
August 26th, 2009 at 4:40 pm“The Plot to Kill Social Security”
salon.com
Oh, Im not done yet..
Somebody mentioned our military?
here is another one..
http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?id=15382
“Bush is gone, but halliburton keeps cashing checks”
August 26th, 2009 at 4:44 pmmore on our military..
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20030421/shorrock
“Richard Perles corporate Adventures”
August 26th, 2009 at 4:46 pmby Tim Shorrock
more on military:
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20090601/scahill?rel=hp_picks
“KBR Got Bonuses for work that Killed Soldiers”
August 26th, 2009 at 4:51 pmby Jeremy Scahill
Im just starting..one for the women..
http://www.abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=3977702&page=1
“Gang Rape Cover up by US, halliburton/KBR”
August 26th, 2009 at 4:53 pmABC NEWS
many more articles like this:
4/19/06:
“Contractor Admits Bribery for Jobs in Iraq”
truthout.org
10/31/06:
“Weldon Case recalls Ikes warning: Corrupting Power of Military-Industrial Complex”
thenation.com
1/5/07:
“Contractor fraud unchecked in Iraq”
5/1/07:
“Government oversight continues with halliburton, cheney
12/10/07:
“Halliburton Covering Up Gang Rape of Employee
3/7/08:
“War Profiteering by Tax Dodge”
boston.com
4/13/08:
Iraq: State of Corruption”
CBS news
6/12/08:
“Logjam of War Contractor fraud suits”
truthout.com
9/11/08:
“Oil officials given sex, gifts, investigators say”
regarding our fighting service men? I have found tons of misspent funds…
August 26th, 2009 at 5:02 pmthey are being screwed..
Liar. In 2008 Social Security ran a surplus of $179.3 billion.
http://www.ssa.gov/OACT/TRSUM/index.html
You see Tracist, your lies are always easily debunked. That is why everyone here knows you are a liar.
August 26th, 2009 at 6:02 pmFICA.
August 26th, 2009 at 6:04 pmThey can move to the US and pay astromonical premiums to a private company which will deny their claims, but I don’t see many Europeans doing that, you f ucking fool.
August 26th, 2009 at 6:05 pmSays who? Simply cap the payouts. You aren’t very bright are you?
August 27th, 2009 at 10:39 amSee, Tracy, this is typical of you. You were caught in yet another lie, then play dumb. The SS IOUs have nothing to do with this debate. You claimed that the current SS debt was weakening our economy. That debt does not exist. SS runs a yearly surplus, so it could not possibly hurt our economy at present.
You are a lying, moronic scumbag.
August 27th, 2009 at 10:43 amNo Tracy. Get it through you thick skull. YOU said the SS d bt was weakening our economy RIGHT NOW. That is a LIE because there is no SS debt RIGHT NOW! SS is in surplus EVERY YEAR! It cannot be weakening our economy RIGHT NOW because it is not in deficit!
Goddam you are f ucking dense. I am done trying to explain this to you. You are just too stupid.
August 27th, 2009 at 4:54 pmvery thanks for article!
August 30th, 2009 at 9:12 am